Who is the ultimate healer? Level 1-4: cleric. The amount of heals per day you get at low level now that you just get them instead of needing charisma is phenomenal. But level 5+: sorcerer, and the gap only widens as you level. You can have Assurance in Medicine so you don't care about wisdom; by level 3 you're auto-succeeding at Battle Medicine/Treat Wounds with 8 wis if you want. You get one more spell per day each rank than a cleric, so now you're rivaling and soon exceeding their healing font bonus spells, plus you get signature spells, so you can cast any of your slots as heal, at any level you want. A cleric still has their font and those are max-level heals which is nice, but being a prepared caster means they might have... one or two heals beyond that? Maybe? But probably they needed to prepare other spells in those slots. Sorcerer can just heal and buff as needed and not worry about preparing the perfect mix of each. At level 8, you can even do all that without even needing to be a divine or primal sorcerer with Crossblooded Evolution. The Arcane spell list with Heal on it is pretty terrifying. Cleric does eventually get the ability to heal for one less action, but it also never gets Effortless Concentration, so it probably has to spend that action concentrating on sustaining a buff, which you don't as a sorcerer, so it's really a wash. You are doing 1 extra point of healing per spell rank if you spent a feat on it, though, i guess. Which means... very little. Cleric isn't *bad,* and people should play whatever appeals to them, but think of all those times you've been out of heals but still had buffs sitting there unused... yeah i'll take sorcerer every time over cloistered cleric, and every time over warpriest if i'm planning to play past level 8 (so that i can actually... do offensive actions too, without being at a -3 penalty due to lagging stats/proficiencies). Druid... isn't even in the conversation. Poor druid.
Welp, my party's level 6 healing sorcerer just died and is being replaced with a war priest, so we'll see how that goes for us 😂 Our party also desperately needs some more front line support, so I'm pretty optimistic that the war priest is going to help us out immensely. I suppose we'll see.
@@RebelThenKing RIP. Warpriest's still great until level 10 or so - level 7 and 8 they even have the same AB as a full martial! - but i'd definitely houserule their weapon proficiency progression so they get master at an actually useful level - 13 - and aren't lagging 3 AB (5 compared to fighter) behind martials in mid-high levels. At a -3 attack bonus and with a crappy spellcasting proficiency progression, there's almost literally no point ever doing anything offensive at that point. Your only option is spells that still have decent effects on a successful save. But if they're always at a -1/0 and with worse damage they're in a healthy state; they're not as good at fighting as full martials, not as good at casting as full casters but can actually effectively *do* a mix of both.
Just had this come up in our campaign- Our other front line is a Monk, so it's them and a Dwarf cloister Cleric with Champion archetype. He's a tank with AC, and always keeps his shield up when he's not blasting the room with with Heal spells. If it weren't for the fact that it seems like he could tank a few hits on his own before even having to use a Heal spell, I would reconsider my opinion. I agree that a sorcerer would be nice in a campaign with some other designated meat shield/tank type character, especially being able to swap as needed to something more potent when needed ("I didn't ask how big the room was, DM, I said I cast Fireball").
@@grinningbuck Well, sorcerer can get champion archetype just as well as cloistered cleric. In fact, easier, given the cha requirement. A cloistered cleric has to be pretty MAD to hit that 14 str and 14 cha requirement. What does cloistered cleric have over sorcerer as a tank? 2 HP per level, sure, but sorcerer can make up for that by not needing to be so MAD grabbing that 14 cha. That's two skill increases that can go to con instead (potentially three with the "right" ancestry), assuming the cloistered cleric wanted max wis. Which, if you don't, you clearly don't care about your offensive spellcasting potential, so just go warpriest at that point. And if all he's doing is raising shield and heal spells, maybe warpriest really does serve better. Then you at least have the advantage of not needing to spend a feat on the archetype. Assuming you're not using free archetype. But... if you are, yeah, warpriest *immediately* gets a *lot* worse since any class can get basically-free heavy armor proficiency. But then also sorcerer gets just as even better as cloistered cleric does. Again, i ain't saying anyone's wrong to play what they wanna play, and we're talking minute differences with every class* still able to contribute meaningfully in this well-balanced game.
I think once you get life-giving form, definitely, but until then... I still would opt for a cleric or druid. Rolling a d12 instead of d8 on 3-action heal spells is nice, but you only have a few Heal spells compared to the cleric, the 1st level focus spell doesn't grant as much healing as the druid's cornucopia, and you're not WIS-based so you won't be able to provide as much non-magical healing. Hard to argue against being a floating being of healing at later levels though.
@@RebelThenKing what do you mean on 3-action heal? It's just the standard heal once the Curse is in its Moderate state (which can be achieved in the 1st round since lv1). Sure the Cleric has more heals, but the Life Oracle can mitigate more damage with Life Link, making it need less heals, and Healer's Blessing is also a plus. Also Wis might not be the higher Ability Score, but Life Oracles can still heal normally non-magically speaking, it'll only start with a -2 on its roll for that, but it'll get higher over time. Clerics are the best healers in the first levels only, but that changes as the party gets stronger.
I thought this text "and all your targets are living creatures" in the description of the curse indicated a 3-action heal, but maybe I'm over-analyzing that. It scares me a bit that with Life Link redirecting damage to the oracle themself, and with the curse making it harder to heal the oracle, you might end up in a "who heals the healer" kind of a situation. @@lincr.1988
@@RebelThenKing nah, that's easily manageable. The healer receives a penalty on heals equal to half of his level only. And he can be healed with non magical methods as well
Answer: Both, want to be the ultimate healer, cloistered cleric + free dedication in druid. Those divine and nature spells now scale together. Easy to jusitfy flavour wise by having a cleric who natures a god with the nature domain (Personal recommendation is Halcamora, sharing wine is one of her edicts)
Power level wise: I think Paizo goofed when they removed charisma relation to cleric's Divine Font. Now they must be one of the most powerful classes in Pf2e (perhaps the most powerful?).
New character in my campaign went Dwarf Cleric with Champion archetype; Heavy Armor proficiency, Lay on Hands, and only Heal spells at level 4. He finally swapped his low levels spells since having 7+ Heal Spells at 2nd rank fighting undead was even a bit too much. That said, his previous class was a summoner, so I was just happy that he was playing something actually useful instead 😉 Keep posting the great content, amigo!
Love your channel and I have played a cloistered saranrae cleric, the access to all fire related spells and the focus fire spell made it an awesome damage dealer!
If I'm not mistaken, the Player Core added another divine cantrip: Void Warp, a 2d4 cantrip that adds enfeebled on a critical fail. Also there are items called spellhearts that can give you a miriad of different cantrips, including electric arc regardless of spell list
The best healer? That's easy, any mobile class/ancestry with skill feats and class/FA feats to spend on Medic. Rogue and Investigator are the big stand outs.
Who is the ultimate healer? Level 1-4: cleric. The amount of heals per day you get at low level now that you just get them instead of needing charisma is phenomenal.
But level 5+: sorcerer, and the gap only widens as you level. You can have Assurance in Medicine so you don't care about wisdom; by level 3 you're auto-succeeding at Battle Medicine/Treat Wounds with 8 wis if you want. You get one more spell per day each rank than a cleric, so now you're rivaling and soon exceeding their healing font bonus spells, plus you get signature spells, so you can cast any of your slots as heal, at any level you want. A cleric still has their font and those are max-level heals which is nice, but being a prepared caster means they might have... one or two heals beyond that? Maybe? But probably they needed to prepare other spells in those slots. Sorcerer can just heal and buff as needed and not worry about preparing the perfect mix of each. At level 8, you can even do all that without even needing to be a divine or primal sorcerer with Crossblooded Evolution. The Arcane spell list with Heal on it is pretty terrifying. Cleric does eventually get the ability to heal for one less action, but it also never gets Effortless Concentration, so it probably has to spend that action concentrating on sustaining a buff, which you don't as a sorcerer, so it's really a wash. You are doing 1 extra point of healing per spell rank if you spent a feat on it, though, i guess. Which means... very little.
Cleric isn't *bad,* and people should play whatever appeals to them, but think of all those times you've been out of heals but still had buffs sitting there unused... yeah i'll take sorcerer every time over cloistered cleric, and every time over warpriest if i'm planning to play past level 8 (so that i can actually... do offensive actions too, without being at a -3 penalty due to lagging stats/proficiencies).
Druid... isn't even in the conversation. Poor druid.
Welp, my party's level 6 healing sorcerer just died and is being replaced with a war priest, so we'll see how that goes for us 😂 Our party also desperately needs some more front line support, so I'm pretty optimistic that the war priest is going to help us out immensely. I suppose we'll see.
@@RebelThenKing RIP. Warpriest's still great until level 10 or so - level 7 and 8 they even have the same AB as a full martial! - but i'd definitely houserule their weapon proficiency progression so they get master at an actually useful level - 13 - and aren't lagging 3 AB (5 compared to fighter) behind martials in mid-high levels. At a -3 attack bonus and with a crappy spellcasting proficiency progression, there's almost literally no point ever doing anything offensive at that point. Your only option is spells that still have decent effects on a successful save. But if they're always at a -1/0 and with worse damage they're in a healthy state; they're not as good at fighting as full martials, not as good at casting as full casters but can actually effectively *do* a mix of both.
Just had this come up in our campaign- Our other front line is a Monk, so it's them and a Dwarf cloister Cleric with Champion archetype. He's a tank with AC, and always keeps his shield up when he's not blasting the room with with Heal spells.
If it weren't for the fact that it seems like he could tank a few hits on his own before even having to use a Heal spell, I would reconsider my opinion.
I agree that a sorcerer would be nice in a campaign with some other designated meat shield/tank type character, especially being able to swap as needed to something more potent when needed ("I didn't ask how big the room was, DM, I said I cast Fireball").
@@grinningbuck Well, sorcerer can get champion archetype just as well as cloistered cleric. In fact, easier, given the cha requirement. A cloistered cleric has to be pretty MAD to hit that 14 str and 14 cha requirement. What does cloistered cleric have over sorcerer as a tank? 2 HP per level, sure, but sorcerer can make up for that by not needing to be so MAD grabbing that 14 cha. That's two skill increases that can go to con instead (potentially three with the "right" ancestry), assuming the cloistered cleric wanted max wis. Which, if you don't, you clearly don't care about your offensive spellcasting potential, so just go warpriest at that point.
And if all he's doing is raising shield and heal spells, maybe warpriest really does serve better. Then you at least have the advantage of not needing to spend a feat on the archetype. Assuming you're not using free archetype. But... if you are, yeah, warpriest *immediately* gets a *lot* worse since any class can get basically-free heavy armor proficiency. But then also sorcerer gets just as even better as cloistered cleric does.
Again, i ain't saying anyone's wrong to play what they wanna play, and we're talking minute differences with every class* still able to contribute meaningfully in this well-balanced game.
Man your voice and delivery are awesome... the only thing better is your content.
The ultimate healer? That`s easy: the Life Oracle 😎
I think once you get life-giving form, definitely, but until then... I still would opt for a cleric or druid. Rolling a d12 instead of d8 on 3-action heal spells is nice, but you only have a few Heal spells compared to the cleric, the 1st level focus spell doesn't grant as much healing as the druid's cornucopia, and you're not WIS-based so you won't be able to provide as much non-magical healing. Hard to argue against being a floating being of healing at later levels though.
@@RebelThenKing what do you mean on 3-action heal? It's just the standard heal once the Curse is in its Moderate state (which can be achieved in the 1st round since lv1). Sure the Cleric has more heals, but the Life Oracle can mitigate more damage with Life Link, making it need less heals, and Healer's Blessing is also a plus.
Also Wis might not be the higher Ability Score, but Life Oracles can still heal normally non-magically speaking, it'll only start with a -2 on its roll for that, but it'll get higher over time.
Clerics are the best healers in the first levels only, but that changes as the party gets stronger.
I thought this text "and all your targets are living creatures" in the description of the curse indicated a 3-action heal, but maybe I'm over-analyzing that. It scares me a bit that with Life Link redirecting damage to the oracle themself, and with the curse making it harder to heal the oracle, you might end up in a "who heals the healer" kind of a situation. @@lincr.1988
@@RebelThenKing nah, that's easily manageable. The healer receives a penalty on heals equal to half of his level only. And he can be healed with non magical methods as well
Answer: Both, want to be the ultimate healer, cloistered cleric + free dedication in druid. Those divine and nature spells now scale together.
Easy to jusitfy flavour wise by having a cleric who natures a god with the nature domain (Personal recommendation is Halcamora, sharing wine is one of her edicts)
Very true. When you open up the world of archetypes and dedications, pretty much anything is possible.
Power level wise: I think Paizo goofed when they removed charisma relation to cleric's Divine Font. Now they must be one of the most powerful classes in Pf2e (perhaps the most powerful?).
New character in my campaign went Dwarf Cleric with Champion archetype; Heavy Armor proficiency, Lay on Hands, and only Heal spells at level 4. He finally swapped his low levels spells since having 7+ Heal Spells at 2nd rank fighting undead was even a bit too much.
That said, his previous class was a summoner, so I was just happy that he was playing something actually useful instead 😉
Keep posting the great content, amigo!
Love your channel and I have played a cloistered saranrae cleric, the access to all fire related spells and the focus fire spell made it an awesome damage dealer!
Didn't touch on Sanctification.
It can help Clerics do extra damage in situations.
Are we going to 20th Level? If so, I'm rolling a Druid! I've got a Godzilla figure & they've got the ability to go Kaiju Form!
If I'm not mistaken, the Player Core added another divine cantrip: Void Warp, a 2d4 cantrip that adds enfeebled on a critical fail.
Also there are items called spellhearts that can give you a miriad of different cantrips, including electric arc regardless of spell list
Void Warp is renamed Chill Touch though.
@@oiman5733 Oh, didn't realize that. Still, it has a 30 ft range so it's slightly better than chill touch at least
The best healer? That's easy, any mobile class/ancestry with skill feats and class/FA feats to spend on Medic. Rogue and Investigator are the big stand outs.
Psychic is a caster but only cantrips I think…might be wrong, so don’t be mean if I’m way off
More cantrip focused, they do get leveled spells. The level spells do have less slots though.