Going to put this here, too, since it’s apparently necessary. Directly quoting Hobbs, a retired British naval officer: “The original intention to fit the British two-track trolley-type hydraulic catapult was changed in 1943 to the USN style two point, tail down method using a strop which fell away from the aircraft after launch.” Frankly, I don’t get the leap in logic that saying ‘American style catapult’ somehow translates to ‘American’s invented the catapult’ or implying the British didn’t invent a catapult.
Its the usual "USA invented everything", that some people whom salute a flag while listening to a British drinking song tune have. Apart for the "tea kettle" in US carrier's. The British invented nearly everything that makes a modern carrier possible. Too many "spangler's" believe the US invented everything on a carrier.
You poor bugger. Mentioning catapults to Brits. I wondered what you meant at first about US style catapult and then realized you meant the hydraulic one's of WW2. I had first thought of steam because Eagle was a post war ship but of course started during the war as you had said. Anyway I bet you had Brits crawling all over you. Thanks for the vid... from a Brit.
My Dad served on the Eagle in the late 60's/early 70s. One of my very earliest memories was going onboard for Families Day when I was about 6 yrs old; I can still clearly remember standing on the flight deck and how loud the Buccaneers were when they did a fly-past and looking out the porthole from Dad's room! What a treat it was for a young kid to get to go onboard an aircraft-carrier and see where Dad worked!
My oldest brother was on the Eagle in the fifties as part of the deck crew .i did have some photos of him on the deck but they been misplaced or lost years ago 😢
That searchlight shaped thing on her bridge after refit is the Type 984 radar, a truly monstrous 3d S band search and GCI radar that weighed 30 tons but out performed more sophisticated sets by sheer brute force. Btw, the tall ship at 14:28 is the Danmark, a full rigged ship still used by Denmark to train merchant sailors (for Maersk among others) today.
Britain suffered enormously from the financial effects of WW2, in debit to the Americans who held this over the British for many years, meddling with foreign policy. In the end the British Empire transitioned to the British Commonwealth and a large Royal Navy was no longer needed to protect it. From the 1950's Military and Naval basses all over the globe were closed as a result. Unfortunately it was the Soviet Union that was to benefit from Britain's decline
Was in Hong Kong in 1970 having a cup of coffee on our mooring deck when Eagle came in to Victoria harbour. The whole of Kowloon came to a standstill. She looked magnificent coming out of the mist with her sailors and aircraft ranged on deck, made me proud to be British. The reason she never had another refit was she ran aground and broke her back when the nav bouys moved in a storm at Devils point ,that rock is still known as Eagle rock and is the reason why the 2 new carriers cannot enter Devonport.
could have done with the at least one fleet carrier in the Falkland's rather than try and convert Atlantic conveyor to plane transporter ..hopefully lesson learned ...
@simonelsey So? Part of the problem wasted did not have enough Harriers ready to be deployed! Not that they couldn't have been transported on the carriers! At least you had the carriers! A few years later, you didn't even have those! Now you have a couple of small carriers again, at least when they are operational.
A good video thank you. As rebuilt HMS Eagle represented the zenith of British conventional (catobar) construction since her 1959 -64 refit was much more extensive than that provided later to her sister ship. It is a shame that like HMS Victorious she was withdrawn from service prematurely. With the benefit of hindsight disposing of the Tiger' class cruisers & retaining Eagle would have perhaps been a better decision.
I saw her arrive in Durban on her way home to be laid up. I was always ship crazy and seeing her was something I never forgot. I drew aircraft carriers pics in my books for a long time afterwards.
The reason Eagle was passed over for the phantom refit was because she grounded leaving Devonport (around devils point they only had 1/2 hr either side of high water with these carriers), & damaged/ bent prop shaft skeg. As a result despite dry docking, sadly Eagle had a vibration issue at speed, which was never fully sorted. Ark Royal was not in good condition overall, Eagle outshone her structurally & mechanically but for issue mentioned. My ol dad was an electrical fitter on both major refits of Eagle & Ark & testified to this.
Another thing that isn't really ever discussed, probably because even the carrier "experts" don't know this, is that, specifically as it pertains to Ark Royal and her Invincible class namesake, they had very effective and productive Signals Intelligence facilities on board. I worked with R07 Ark Royal SIGINT personnel regularly during the mid-late 90's and their intel was second to none.
Eagle was actually due for the Phantom refit before he Ark Royal, but the Ark broke down badly and was refitted first alongside repairs which broke the budget for both carrier refits and then some.
The decline of the Royal Navy was something I witnessed as a child being born in Plymouth, home of Devonport during Navy Days and viewing of the`Mothball Fleet` moored in the River Tamar. HMS Vanguard remains a vague memory as a vast grey Bulk since I was about 4yrs old at the time. My wish to tour a Submarine was thwarted by my Father (a Royal Marine Colour Sargeant) who refused to board such a craft, although he served aboard the Cruisers Sheffield (of Bismark fame) Superb plus the Commando Carriers Bulwark and Albion post WWII having not being allowed to join the RAF due to serving on the LMS Railway during the Conflict. Politicians in that Era have a LOT to answer for!
Essentially Britain ended up with Essex carrier equivalents trying to do the job of a Forrestal. Just too big a compromise to be effective. It's a shame that a couple of Malta class carriers weren't built - we would then at least have had something more along the lines of a Midway to convert as well. Having those alongside Eagle and Ark Royal, we would then have not had to rely on the far too small Hermes and Victorious. The CVA-01 would then possibly not have been designed and cancelled in the 60's when the country was completely broke and we might have had something built in the late 70's/early 80's that was more capable than the new Illustrious class. Timing is everything.
Our grandmother served tea to HM the Queen Elizabeth when she was at Cammell Laird Shipyard, Birkenhead in 1950 for the launch of the HMS Ark Royal. #OurHistory ☘️📚🏴🙏
Shame Cammell Laird was closed down by Thatcher because that shipyards is now only a repair yard but has one of the largest dry docks in the world plus most carrier technology was invented there
The large amount of Bofors guns was due to the fact (as you see at 5:56) they were carried in sextuple mounts designated Mark VI. I think those were not very successful and overly complicated. Instead of the usual 4 round clips they had 36 round trays for each of the six guns which could only be reloaded while the gun was at a set angle and not moving. So they offered heavy firepower for a short time but not the constant stream of fire a WW2 bofors guns could with loaders continously throwing in 4 round clips manually. Since they were only radar guided, I suppose the trade off was accepted as against jets and missiles, engagement times would be seconds.
Eagle seems to have lost her 4.5 inch mounts after the angled deck refit already even if it isn't mentioned anywhere. Also I guess the number of Bofors guns was reduced as well. Re Sea Cat and Bofors, Sea Cat was designed to replace Bofors mounts (the normal twin or single ones) on a 1 for 1 basis with the same weight and deck space, so replacing those sextuple mounts saved weight.
Her 64 refit should have allowed for 20 more service years (taking her up to potentially 1984?) Imagine if the Ark was given a full rebuild too (5 years instead of 3) emerging in 1972 then potentially she could have served on into the 90's (thereby stopping the Falklands war from happening?)
Royal Navy ships have a letter that defines what they are. F = frigate. D = destroyer. Aircraft carriers have the designation R (the reasons for this seem a bit unclear, but might have been the first available letter when carriers started to be built) The 05 just identifies one carrier from another.
As I understand it "R" stands for "Recovery" as the first ships involving aircraft were floatplane tenders which had lower and pick up the floatplanes with a crane and were known as "floatplane recovery ships"
Going to be honest, I don’t see the need to be snarky or turn this into a contest. Directly quoting Hobbs, who served in the RN for over 30 years and is *not* American: “The original intention to fit the British two-track trolley-type hydraulic catapult was changed in 1943 to the USN style two point, tail down method using a strop which fell away from the aircraft after launch.” Like, really. I don’t make these statements out of the blue. Or because I happen to be American.
@@skyneahistory2306 u took it the wrong way, its just how I am & come across as direct but I was correct in what I said & that's just facts!!! I enjoy your content tho as I enjoy naval history
Tsk, tsk the execrable Firebrand was a Blackburn product, "(dis)credit" where it is due! Blackburn did take over production of the Swordfish, Fairey's lines being filled by Fulmars and oncoming Firebrands. It was Blackburn who developed the Swordfish Mk3, an ASW beast with millimetric radar, a cabin for the operator and tube, plus metal for the lower plane to launch ASW rockets, and bombs and depth charges to taste. It made the "Biscay Dash" even more difficult for U boats, the radar "seeing" both Snorts and periscopes. So adding the Buck, three out of four isn't too bad. I didn't forget the Skua which wasn't all bad. It was the first FAA monoplane, first with retractable undercarriage and a fuselage designed to float for thirty minutes to allow for evacuation. The Skua sank a German cruiser by a rare dive bombing attack and I think was credited with the first air to air kill of WWII (over Scapa). As long as nobody stuck a turret on the back and called it a fighter, sigh!
1945-1951 the economy was a basket case. Foreign exchange restrictions were draconian. The socialist government priorities were on social and health care spendin, and were revolutionary in those fields. The British empire with its obligations and costs was being handed back, in some cases in a great hurry. Military priorities were focussed on land and 'police' neccessities.
Going to put this here, too, since it’s apparently necessary.
Directly quoting Hobbs, a retired British naval officer:
“The original intention to fit the British two-track trolley-type hydraulic catapult was changed in 1943 to the USN style two point, tail down method using a strop which fell away from the aircraft after launch.”
Frankly, I don’t get the leap in logic that saying ‘American style catapult’ somehow translates to ‘American’s invented the catapult’ or implying the British didn’t invent a catapult.
Its the usual "USA invented everything", that some people whom salute a flag while listening to a British drinking song tune have. Apart for the "tea kettle" in US carrier's. The British invented nearly everything that makes a modern carrier possible. Too many "spangler's" believe the US invented everything on a carrier.
You poor bugger. Mentioning catapults to Brits. I wondered what you meant at first about US style catapult and then realized you meant the hydraulic one's of WW2. I had first thought of steam because Eagle was a post war ship but of course started during the war as you had said. Anyway I bet you had Brits crawling all over you. Thanks for the vid... from a Brit.
One of the carriers that my dad served on during the 1950’s. Brings back memories. Great video & thanks.
A very sad end to an otherwise perfectly good carrier. Also a testament to the ailing British economy. A real pity. Thanks for another great episode.
I remember sailing around her in the evening, early 1970s. She was anchored in the Tamar, lonely and empty, awaiting her disposal.
My Dad served on the Eagle in the late 60's/early 70s. One of my very earliest memories was going onboard for Families Day when I was about 6 yrs old; I can still clearly remember standing on the flight deck and how loud the Buccaneers were when they did a fly-past and looking out the porthole from Dad's room! What a treat it was for a young kid to get to go onboard an aircraft-carrier and see where Dad worked!
One of the ships my father served on in the 1950s I have a pic of him on the plane tractor that pulled the jets on the flight deck.
My oldest brother was on the Eagle in the fifties as part of the deck crew .i did have some photos of him on the deck but they been misplaced or lost years ago 😢
That searchlight shaped thing on her bridge after refit is the Type 984 radar, a truly monstrous 3d S band search and GCI radar that weighed 30 tons but out performed more sophisticated sets by sheer brute force. Btw, the tall ship at 14:28 is the Danmark, a full rigged ship still used by Denmark to train merchant sailors (for Maersk among others) today.
Britain suffered enormously from the financial effects of WW2, in debit to the Americans who held this over the British for many years, meddling with foreign policy. In the end the British Empire transitioned to the British Commonwealth and a large Royal Navy was no longer needed to protect it. From the 1950's Military and Naval basses all over the globe were closed as a result. Unfortunately it was the Soviet Union that was to benefit from Britain's decline
Was in Hong Kong in 1970 having a cup of coffee on our mooring deck when Eagle came in to Victoria harbour. The whole of Kowloon came to a standstill. She looked magnificent coming out of the mist with her sailors and aircraft ranged on deck, made me proud to be British. The reason she never had another refit was she ran aground and broke her back when the nav bouys moved in a storm at Devils point ,that rock is still known as Eagle rock and is the reason why the 2 new carriers cannot enter Devonport.
could have done with the at least one fleet carrier in the Falkland's rather than try and convert Atlantic conveyor to plane transporter ..hopefully lesson learned ...
There were British carriers in the Falllands war!
The Royal Navy should have recommissioned the cruiser Blake/or Tiger and the Ark Royal!. The situation would have been very different!.
@@MCMXLVINot really, Blake and Tiger could only really carry a few Helicopters and Ark Royal was by that point non-functional/scrap
@@mahbriggs yes but not of a suitable size hence reference to Atlantic conveyor
@simonelsey
So? Part of the problem wasted did not have enough Harriers ready to be deployed! Not that they couldn't have been transported on the carriers!
At least you had the carriers! A few years later, you didn't even have those!
Now you have a couple of small carriers again, at least when they are operational.
A good video thank you. As rebuilt HMS Eagle represented the zenith of British conventional (catobar) construction since her 1959 -64 refit was much more extensive than that provided later to her sister ship. It is a shame that like HMS Victorious she was withdrawn from service prematurely. With the benefit of hindsight disposing of the Tiger' class cruisers & retaining Eagle would have perhaps been a better decision.
I saw her arrive in Durban on her way home to be laid up. I was always ship crazy and seeing her was something I never forgot. I drew aircraft carriers pics in my books for a long time afterwards.
The reason Eagle was passed over for the phantom refit was because she grounded leaving Devonport (around devils point they only had 1/2 hr either side of high water with these carriers), & damaged/ bent prop shaft skeg. As a result despite dry docking, sadly Eagle had a vibration issue at speed, which was never fully sorted.
Ark Royal was not in good condition overall, Eagle outshone her structurally & mechanically but for issue mentioned.
My ol dad was an electrical fitter on both major refits of Eagle & Ark & testified to this.
At least she didn's get a launch ramp, which just announces to the world your carrier sucks ass and is no threat.
Another thing that isn't really ever discussed, probably because even the carrier "experts" don't know this, is that, specifically as it pertains to Ark Royal and her Invincible class namesake, they had very effective and productive Signals Intelligence facilities on board. I worked with R07 Ark Royal SIGINT personnel regularly during the mid-late 90's and their intel was second to none.
Eagle was actually due for the Phantom refit before he Ark Royal, but the Ark broke down badly and was refitted first alongside repairs which broke the budget for both carrier refits and then some.
The decline of the Royal Navy was something I witnessed as a child being born in Plymouth, home of Devonport during Navy Days and viewing of the`Mothball Fleet` moored in the River Tamar. HMS Vanguard remains a vague memory as a vast grey Bulk since I was about 4yrs old at the time. My wish to tour a Submarine was thwarted by my Father (a Royal Marine Colour Sargeant) who refused to board such a craft, although he served aboard the Cruisers Sheffield (of Bismark fame) Superb plus the Commando Carriers Bulwark and Albion post WWII having not being allowed to join the RAF due to serving on the LMS Railway during the Conflict. Politicians in that Era have a LOT to answer for!
Essentially Britain ended up with Essex carrier equivalents trying to do the job of a Forrestal. Just too big a compromise to be effective. It's a shame that a couple of Malta class carriers weren't built - we would then at least have had something more along the lines of a Midway to convert as well. Having those alongside Eagle and Ark Royal, we would then have not had to rely on the far too small Hermes and Victorious. The CVA-01 would then possibly not have been designed and cancelled in the 60's when the country was completely broke and we might have had something built in the late 70's/early 80's that was more capable than the new Illustrious class. Timing is everything.
A very astute appraisal of Britain's carrier requirements as opposed to that was reluctantly provided.
Have you done the USS Long Beach ?
Our grandmother served tea to HM the Queen Elizabeth when she was at Cammell Laird Shipyard, Birkenhead in 1950 for the launch of the HMS Ark Royal. #OurHistory ☘️📚🏴🙏
Shame Cammell Laird was closed down by Thatcher because that shipyards is now only a repair yard but has one of the largest dry docks in the world plus most carrier technology was invented there
Nice video.
The large amount of Bofors guns was due to the fact (as you see at 5:56) they were carried in sextuple mounts designated Mark VI. I think those were not very successful and overly complicated. Instead of the usual 4 round clips they had 36 round trays for each of the six guns which could only be reloaded while the gun was at a set angle and not moving. So they offered heavy firepower for a short time but not the constant stream of fire a WW2 bofors guns could with loaders continously throwing in 4 round clips manually. Since they were only radar guided, I suppose the trade off was accepted as against jets and missiles, engagement times would be seconds.
Eagle seems to have lost her 4.5 inch mounts after the angled deck refit already even if it isn't mentioned anywhere. Also I guess the number of Bofors guns was reduced as well. Re Sea Cat and Bofors, Sea Cat was designed to replace Bofors mounts (the normal twin or single ones) on a 1 for 1 basis with the same weight and deck space, so replacing those sextuple mounts saved weight.
They remained aft
Her 64 refit should have allowed for 20 more service years (taking her up to potentially 1984?)
Imagine if the Ark was given a full rebuild too (5 years instead of 3) emerging in 1972 then potentially she could have served on into the 90's (thereby stopping the Falklands war from happening?)
It's been this way with the RN ever since when it comes to budget spending.
At 11.55 what are the 3 carriers.
What does the "R05" designation mean?
Royal Navy ships have a letter that defines what they are. F = frigate. D = destroyer. Aircraft carriers have the designation R (the reasons for this seem a bit unclear, but might have been the first available letter when carriers started to be built) The 05 just identifies one carrier from another.
@superted6960 thanks!
As I understand it "R" stands for "Recovery" as the first ships involving aircraft were floatplane tenders which had lower and pick up the floatplanes with a crane and were known as "floatplane recovery ships"
Woohoo
What do u mean an American style catapult? We the British invented & was the first too use it 😂
Well, the Brits also used "American style" tanks, battleships, hot tea, fish & chips, and enormous clock towers! 😁
Going to be honest, I don’t see the need to be snarky or turn this into a contest.
Directly quoting Hobbs, who served in the RN for over 30 years and is *not* American:
“The original intention to fit the British two-track trolley-type hydraulic catapult was changed in 1943 to the USN style two point, tail down method using a strop which fell away from the aircraft after launch.”
Like, really. I don’t make these statements out of the blue. Or because I happen to be American.
The British did invent the steam catapult. Plus the angled flight deck and mirror landing system. Also as an aside......what "battleships"?
@@skyneahistory2306 u took it the wrong way, its just how I am & come across as direct but I was correct in what I said & that's just facts!!! I enjoy your content tho as I enjoy naval history
@@moodogco
But it was also an America style!
Think of it as a hybrid system!
At 2:26 you see Fairey Firebrand torpedo bombers/fighters on the fantail. Probably one of the worst aircraft the Fleet Air Arm ever had.
Well, if that is so it was truly an amazing achievement given how strong the competition was.
Tsk, tsk the execrable Firebrand was a Blackburn product, "(dis)credit" where it is due! Blackburn did take over production of the Swordfish, Fairey's lines being filled by Fulmars and oncoming Firebrands. It was Blackburn who developed the Swordfish Mk3, an ASW beast with millimetric radar, a cabin for the operator and tube, plus metal for the lower plane to launch ASW rockets, and bombs and depth charges to taste. It made the "Biscay Dash" even more difficult for U boats, the radar "seeing" both Snorts and periscopes. So adding the Buck, three out of four isn't too bad.
I didn't forget the Skua which wasn't all bad. It was the first FAA monoplane, first with retractable undercarriage and a fuselage designed to float for thirty minutes to allow for evacuation. The Skua sank a German cruiser by a rare dive bombing attack and I think was credited with the first air to air kill of WWII (over Scapa). As long as nobody stuck a turret on the back and called it a fighter, sigh!
1945-1951 the economy was a basket case. Foreign exchange restrictions were draconian. The socialist government priorities were on social and health care spendin, and were revolutionary in those fields. The British empire with its obligations and costs was being handed back, in some cases in a great hurry. Military priorities were focussed on land and 'police' neccessities.
What happened to this Socialist government, because they are not spending on anything, except illegals.