If you've built these motors why not show at least som pictures of them instead of just renders? Would be fun to see manufacturing also. I fear that this is just "fake it til you make it" but would like to be proven wrong.
As they say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof! The video is very light on details. What I can make out so far: - Concentrated winding - Likely uses a Halbach array to improve torque and reduce weight - (implies surface permanent magnet motor) - Very high grade NdFeB magnets (54+ MGOe?) to achieve the torque density -But it does not appear to use a lot of magnet material - how do you prevent demag during active short circuit? Or do you avoid ASC? - Are they using some special laminations in the stator (high cobalt) with high remanence to achieve torque? But the high grade magnets, the Halbach array, (and especially the combination of the two), plus special lamination material, all cost $$. So how do they keep the component cost down? Or, are they referring to the system cost?
This... plus if the center space isn't utilized then my guess is they are inflating their power density by only including motor volume. Now, Lucid for instance used the center of their motor to house the gear reduction and make effective use of this space, but they needed the gear reduction / torque conversion. There may be other instances where the center hollow is actually useful (ducted fans maybe), but I'm not thinking of many instances.
Really wish I could have stayed awake for my motors and controls classes. I always wondered why you wouldn't put the motors as close to the wheels as possible with the "rotor" on the outside and stator on the inside to maximize torque and efficiency. Between axial flux motors and synchronous reluctance motors and some of the other stuff that's developing, pretty exciting stuff, hopefully not vaporware, even if it is, hopefully it inspires new ideas
The torque advantage largely comes because these are outrunner motors, meaning they have a mechanical advantage as the rotor is at a distance from the centre of rotation. The torque density of any powertrain can be varied through gearing - but this does it natively without the need for transmission (which is great for packaging too).
@@ZirothTech I'd imagine they incorporated some kind of bearings or guides to keep the rotor and stator from crashing into each other under the stresses these would be subjected to. Otherwise potholes just got a lot more expensive
also, all numbers seem like they are peak, not continuous, which may work for some of the mentioned applications like small/mass volume vehicles for those intermittent burst demands. High continuous load with no active cooling would typically result in winding lamination degradation. Unless the lamination is as you say "Special" but at what cost?!
The guy who made the marketing hype videos: "Hey CEO, have you watched Apple events?" CEO: "no I don't have time for such things" Guy: "okay great don't worry about it"
Thanks for sharing your concerns. Our motors are already powering Verge Motorcycles on the streets (you can check their website and RUclips channel to see it in action). Additionally, we have motors at various stages of development, from early virtual design to prototyping and full production.
in-wheel: what about higher risk of motor damage because of vibrations, hitting bumps, holes, curbs and other vehicles? How is it isolated from mud and water and still properly cooled? What about the movement of the wheels and having power cables attached? Isn't it better to have a central donut motor and classic wheels on axle? Can you produce those for cheaper and in scale compared to other types of electric motors? Can you show the real world data on how much it's more efficient, cheaper and reliable?
You're absolutely correct-heating is a valid concern with in-wheel motors, as it can directly affect tire dynamics. Excess heat transfer to the tire can alter its pressure, grip, and wear, potentially compromising performance and safety. This is why in-wheel motor designs must include effective thermal management systems, such as heat shields, insulation, and active cooling, to prevent heat from impacting the tire.
@@vigneshd7066 There is more to my questions - the donut motor uses permanent magnets probably neodymium ones as it's lightweight and powerful, so the rare earth elements sourced mainly from China and this can be a production bottleneck, also permanent magnets might loose their magnetic properties because of temperature and vibrations over time. So I'd love to see real world data and wish them great success but all this seems a bit too good to be true. Elaphe motors from Slovenia also tried with in-wheel motors yet Aptera switched to a central motor for some reason.
THIS! The engine must be as robust as a wheel bearing or the breaking system. I guess regenerative breaking could work as break and maybe inversing polarity as a hard break... but as you said if they use permanent magnets shocks, vibration, water etc are a huuuge problem
@@finnbrodersen it depends on the motor and the use-case. In the case of the motorcycle/scooter motors they are air-cooled, but that particular automotive motor is liquid cooled.
For anyone wondering, the graph shown at 7:00 only applies for the automotive motor, the rest of the motors fall within the 'Torque density focused competitors' whilst the drone motor comes in at the bottom left
That graph only compares our automotive motor with other automotive motors in the industry. The drone/scooter/motorcycle motors are similarly better when compared with their equivalents.
The solution to solve cross manufacturer incompatibility is not to create another walled garden. It is to establish a shared industry interface between the common components.
40 kg of sprung mass per wheel?!? Nonsense IMHO , or I have misunderstood chassis technology! The motors should be on the inside at the end of a drive axle!
I've had a similar idea for ages, but the biggest problem is sealing the huge seams between the rotor and the stator that is on both sides along the circumference of the "donut". Then there is the high unsprung weight x4 because we have 4 of these wheel-motors.
Yep exactly my thoughts. Bearings that size cost and are Subsceptible to everything, and the gap is also an issues because it's so close to the dirty ground.
Well some stuff does not stack up, namely unsprung mass concerns and durability on a very harsh location along with barake application but I would like to stay hopeful. What are the target markets? Massive OEMs and/or DIY/kit car/startups? I'm hoping for a future were I can easily assemble my own car and tell OEMs and dealers to sod off 😊
Man, these motors would be absolutely perfect for electric unicycles! Even the donut shape is just like tailor made for them. Extreme torque and low weight are the most important things for an EUC motor, power is a good deal less important as it is pretty much impossible to go more than 100km/h on them because of the wind resistance. These things would be even better suited for EUCs than the Magnax or YASA axial flux motors.
@@DonutLabOfficial If you are interested in that use case for your motors you should contact Jason McNeil. He is the owner of ewheels, the biggest EUC retailer in the USA (and the world). He has got excellent contacts to several EUC manufacturers in China.
Our motors are at various stages of development, from early virtual design to prototyping and full production. For example Verge Motorcycles is already using our motors, and you can check out their website and RUclips channel to see them in action. Additionally, our launch partners, Oruga and Hyper Q Aerospace, are building on our platform. We look forward to sharing more details and use cases in the future.
But there are engineers in the public :) ... and I can assure you that there was not all that much engineering in this video. Mostly empty claims. I do agree, a real prototype and a practical demonstration would have been good and necessary.
It isn't hard to build a high performance EV. It only is a money pit that isn't profitable. The market needs time and new companies like you guys, to grow sustainable and profitable. My dream is to rebuild my own car, it'll be a Toyota Yaris!! But I want it fully electric. Builds like that will be viral here on RUclips, but I first need to save some more cash to start.
How would you take the mechanical motion via driveshaft and axles and convert that efficiently to electricity? Think this is a solution that is engineered specifically for a battery....
Possible, but at the expense of redesigning half the car just to get a worse version of a car that was made for motors like this from the start. Cost prohibitive and wildly impractical.
The idea of having one universal intercompatible platform sound great and all, but I feel the reason all vehiles currently dont use the same universal powertrain isnt because it's heretofore been impossible, its just not desirable. For established brands, the time and cost of developing and integrating a bespoke powertrain solution is worth it to optimise for whatever specific characteristics they need for that vehicle, so it stands out in that specific market.
The motor having almost direct contact with the ground meaning this motor will need to take extreme abuse. New tires and wheels will need to absorb the the final impact on the motor itself. While not eliminating the up/down travel of the suspension. Using the not yes released airless tires may achieve some of the impact. Using that same technology on both sides ( inner/outter) the motor could be developed.
Hey everyone, that all sounds really good. It would be helpful to see that the Verge motorcycle would work well with the motor/battery/controller in conjunction with the software - does it?
I think integration will be difficult. All current designs do not take into consideration to have such a sensitive part (like a motor) almost in touch with the road. Imagine all the vibration and forces that the motors themselves will be put through, especially when the road conditions are not optimal. But then again, technology these days is amazing, maybe Bose suspension will make a good pairing, who knows?
Thank you for your comment and insights. You’re absolutely right that placing a motor in the wheel comes with unique challenges, which is why our design has been carefully engineered to handle vibrations, forces, and varying road conditions. The entire system, including suspension integration, has been developed to ensure durability and reliability. We appreciate your thoughts and interest! 👌🏼
Thank you for the comment! Our motorcycle motor has been in use on Verge Motorcycles for a few years now, make sure to check their website and socials out. And Oruga Unitrack and Hyper Q Aerospace are a few other examples of companies that are building their products on our motors/platform.
@ Those look like interesting applications especially the Oruga, Middle East will be very interested on those. I suggest reducing the cg images on the front page as it currently looks like a fake website with too much cg like the semi truck with a long bonnet which doesn’t make sense in an EV. Anyways, good luck on competing in this space. Looking forward to more content!
You have nicely made videos. In the near future, you MUST make a video tutorial on how to convert a semitruck into a hybrid truck. It should show where the parts can be purchased, how much they cost, how can they be installed, and how much money will they save. You will have a lot of customers if you do it right
Thank you for your comment. Our motors are actually already in use, powering Verge Motorcycles. Check their website and search on RUclips to see it in action. We also have motors at various stages of development, from early virtual design to prototyping and full production. Our launch partners, Oruga and Hyper Q Aerospace, are building on our platform as well. We look forward to sharing more details and use cases in the future.
I`m a motor designer for high performance motors. This is just marketing in my opinion. Siemens has the best motor of 1500Nm/50kg designed for aviation. This guys are more than double. It is hard to believe that. At the moment is no material or technology to allow that stated numbers. Everything is based on some simulations, and probably absolute peak value for 5 seconds, that is never feasible in real life. It is nothing revolutionary about this motor in my opinion.
It all screams like marketing scam. There is a reason why cars are not puting motors directly to the wheels, even the ones with 4 independent motors. The amount of vibration would decrease reliability.
A motorcycle has this motor on it now Verge motorcycles check it out.... I'm interested in this tech... Let me know after you check what they have made
It's a very nice and innovative technology but as all emerging technologies the big questions are costs and how much of that saved weight becomes gained autonomy and last but not least maintenance costs
Need specialised suspension systems to deal with the unsprung weight as well as lower the overall frames weight to increase motor efficiency to make hub motors work, that said this is a pretty good upgrade
Very cool to see a hub motor that uses all that space like that. But how are the bearings? It looks like it would need giant hula hoop bearings which would mean a lot more movement compare to a regular wheel bearing and possibly faster wear.
“It’s really hard to build great EVs with high performance, profitability, and reliability”……… No it isn’t. Earnings and profit margins are public for most of these manufacturers, and the margins are insane per unit compared to ICE.
Great move to focus on the drive train than to make motorcycles! Can you show/explain us the efficiency of the motor in respect of the different rpms? ...at especially low rpms and where ist the optimum efficiency?
Not sure how this got into my feed, but interesting. Hope producers get to test these things and see if the claims are real. Looking forward to products built with these components. Again, if claims are true, I'll buy the products. Let's go OEMs!
My theory is that the company paid for bots to view and comment on this video to fan engagement. Let’s be real, this video is all claims and 0 evidence. Quite frankly ridiculous if they’re serious about the claims they’ve made. By the point, we’ve seen this pattern many times before, and it usually ends in a scam. Unfortunately I’m helping them by commenting, but I can only hope that everything they’ve said is completely accurate, and that they truly will revolutionize the next step in EV development.
We don’t have a dedicated video of the motor’s sound by itself yet, but we’ll definitely share one in the future. In the meantime, you can check out Verge Motorcycles’ footage to hear the motor on the bike in action.
I can’t help but to think moving the motor to the center line and connecting it to opposite wheels with driveshafts would’ve give better handing and more durability compared to an in-wheel hub motor.
It seems like they talk about power and weight savings but not about actual electrical efficiency. The real key is how few electrons are needed to power the motor, not about maximum power output. Nonetheless, I think this is a cool advancement.
My problems (it's totally fine if you don't agree) with EV motorcycles are weight of the batteries, cost, and the sound. Sound is very important. It's not really the motor, it's the batteries. And maybe the sound, if speaking performance, you want to hear the sound of the good engines. But if you talk about regular A to B commuter vehicles, then everything should be fine, minus the charging time I guess. But it's still much smoother, much cleaner, and torque is almost constant across all regime. For cost you could use Fe16N2 clean earth magnets maybe.
I’m thinking you don’t have any working prototypes or we would have seen it. You mention the hyper car study and quote statistics as if they actually existed. When I see content like this I can’t help but think the push to secure funding is the next step. If everything was as you try to make it seem funding should come from investors who understand the significance of these claims. It’s much harder to mislead those investors than it would be for an average person. Liquid piston has been at this game for a while.
Thank you for your comment. Our motors are at various stages of development, from early virtual design to prototyping and full production. Verge Motorcycles is already using our motors, showcasing real-world applications of the technology. Years of development and testing have gone into making this a reality, and our launch partners are building on our platform as well. We appreciate your feedback and encourage you to follow along as we continue to share more about our work.
Sounds exciting, but I, like many others, want to see this in a real demo instead of just renders. Case studies are a start, but for this to get real traction (pun intended) you'll need to back up these claims with experimental proof, not calculated proof. If you do pull it off though, you can bet I'll be looking to buy a car with your motors in it asap.
Thank you for your thoughts! Our motorcycle motor has been in use on Verge Motorcycles for a few years now and they are a great example of the performance these motors can achieve. And Oruga Unitrack and Hyper Q Aerospace are a few examples of companies that are building on top of our platform/motors. Stay tuned for more content in the near future, going deeper into the motors and showcasing these products using our motors.
I don’t understand the quadcopter drone motor. 120mm is huge! Does that include the propeller? Why? 1.5kg for this class is also huuuge! What kind of drones are you building??
So my questions to you: At what voltage can these be used, I'm specifically interested in the 12 inch version. There are something called EUCs, electric unicycles. Their motors plus 14" rim weight around 14kg, they also have around 300nm torque and peak wattage i reached was 28000w. Also go 117kmh, 170 kmh freespin. So my question, is your stated speed freespin or actual achievable top speed when in a vehicle ridden? At what voltage does your donut run? New EUC motors run between 151v amd 168v. How do you seal these hughe bearings? We had long lasting issues with rusting EUC motors when the hollow bore ones came out. What would be a prize for the 12 inch motor? EUC motors go for around 400-500€.
You know what would really set this hub motor apart? If they actually sell them. Edit: I mean direct sales instead of only attempting B2B, which never works out.
EMP proof??? 🤔 If you're not designing this type of protection into such technology, it'll be useless in the next few generations, or less... Beautiful work, though! I suggest the development of even more robust capability (electromagnetic protection) now that you've improved the power to weight. Bet you can do A LOT with less than 2% total mass addition for the final product. You'd lead further leaps and bounds over your competitors with investment into this type of reliability. Either way, what an awesome 👌 product. Keep scaling up and VTOL this!!!
This is stupid & bad. You can’t even get your vague nonsense right. FFS, unsprung weight has absolutely nothing to do with torque density. Cars are already capable of precisely controlling power to the wheels, not hundreds of times a second (it’s not 1960), thousands of times a second. It’s not novel. Hell, it doesn’t even require an electric drivetrain. Any latency associated with gearbox backlash will be so tiny, so ridiculously minuscule, that a car would need to be built with the same tolerances as high precision laboratory equipment for it to make a measurable difference. You could achieve an equivalent improvement to vehicle performance by ensuring the driver skipped out on their breakfast that morning, or forgoing those big, fuzzy dice around the mirror. It’s bonkers! Say I have a car that can modulate power to its wheels 10,000 times a second. I have an identical car that can modulate its power to its wheels 100,000 times a second. Can I modulate power delivery 100,000 times/ sec in a way that the car reacts any differently than had I sampled that same modulation curve at regular intervals 10,000 times/ sec? Only if the time between modulating the power & seeing a measurable result is less than 1/10,000th of a second. And guess what? It’s not. Even if it was, the improvement would be so marginal as to be effectively imperceptible. Because the fact of the matter is there’s not a lot relevant to vehicle performance that changes from 1/100,000th of sec to the next. You’d be chasing diminishing returns. But again, we’re well past that point already. Seriously? How did you manage to put together a video that’s both devoid of information AND misinformative? That takes something. It’s not talent. It’s not brains. It’s *definitely* not looks, but it’s something.
This is awesome Donut!! I love the keynote style presentation and i really hope Lavoie can make an electric scooter with one of these!! This is so cool!!
Why didn’t you show the motor actually doing it’s intended purpose in real life? If you wanted to come off as a vaporware type of company, this is exactly how you do it. Make bold claims, use buzzwords, and then never show a working product. Also start using the horsepower metric, 95% of people have no idea how to compare kw to hp without using a conversion calculator. Know your audience and speak to them on their terms.
Who approved this video to come? Who thought it's a good idea to do a product launch without showing the product properly or cover the most basic technical questions and backing the wild claims?
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
If you've built these motors why not show at least som pictures of them instead of just renders? Would be fun to see manufacturing also. I fear that this is just "fake it til you make it" but would like to be proven wrong.
they wanna have an apple style presentation
Cause they want investment and then they will be gone with those money 😊
They've already built production motorcycles with their motors they've been already available
Their donuts. All eaten already…
And who pays for materials, parts and crafting?
As they say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof! The video is very light on details. What I can make out so far:
- Concentrated winding
- Likely uses a Halbach array to improve torque and reduce weight - (implies surface permanent magnet motor)
- Very high grade NdFeB magnets (54+ MGOe?) to achieve the torque density
-But it does not appear to use a lot of magnet material - how do you prevent demag during active short circuit? Or do you avoid ASC?
- Are they using some special laminations in the stator (high cobalt) with high remanence to achieve torque?
But the high grade magnets, the Halbach array, (and especially the combination of the two), plus special lamination material, all cost $$. So how do they keep the component cost down? Or, are they referring to the system cost?
This... plus if the center space isn't utilized then my guess is they are inflating their power density by only including motor volume. Now, Lucid for instance used the center of their motor to house the gear reduction and make effective use of this space, but they needed the gear reduction / torque conversion. There may be other instances where the center hollow is actually useful (ducted fans maybe), but I'm not thinking of many instances.
Really wish I could have stayed awake for my motors and controls classes. I always wondered why you wouldn't put the motors as close to the wheels as possible with the "rotor" on the outside and stator on the inside to maximize torque and efficiency. Between axial flux motors and synchronous reluctance motors and some of the other stuff that's developing, pretty exciting stuff, hopefully not vaporware, even if it is, hopefully it inspires new ideas
The torque advantage largely comes because these are outrunner motors, meaning they have a mechanical advantage as the rotor is at a distance from the centre of rotation. The torque density of any powertrain can be varied through gearing - but this does it natively without the need for transmission (which is great for packaging too).
@@ZirothTech I'd imagine they incorporated some kind of bearings or guides to keep the rotor and stator from crashing into each other under the stresses these would be subjected to. Otherwise potholes just got a lot more expensive
also, all numbers seem like they are peak, not continuous, which may work for some of the mentioned applications like small/mass volume vehicles for those intermittent burst demands. High continuous load with no active cooling would typically result in winding lamination degradation. Unless the lamination is as you say "Special" but at what cost?!
The guy who made the marketing hype videos: "Hey CEO, have you watched Apple events?"
CEO: "no I don't have time for such things"
Guy: "okay great don't worry about it"
All talks, all renders.
Thanks for sharing your concerns. Our motors are already powering Verge Motorcycles on the streets (you can check their website and RUclips channel to see it in action). Additionally, we have motors at various stages of development, from early virtual design to prototyping and full production.
All donuts, no dollars
in-wheel: what about higher risk of motor damage because of vibrations, hitting bumps, holes, curbs and other vehicles? How is it isolated from mud and water and still properly cooled? What about the movement of the wheels and having power cables attached? Isn't it better to have a central donut motor and classic wheels on axle? Can you produce those for cheaper and in scale compared to other types of electric motors?
Can you show the real world data on how much it's more efficient, cheaper and reliable?
You're absolutely correct-heating is a valid concern with in-wheel motors, as it can directly affect tire dynamics. Excess heat transfer to the tire can alter its pressure, grip, and wear, potentially compromising performance and safety. This is why in-wheel motor designs must include effective thermal management systems, such as heat shields, insulation, and active cooling, to prevent heat from impacting the tire.
@@vigneshd7066 There is more to my questions - the donut motor uses permanent magnets probably neodymium ones as it's lightweight and powerful, so the rare earth elements sourced mainly from China and this can be a production bottleneck, also permanent magnets might loose their magnetic properties because of temperature and vibrations over time. So I'd love to see real world data and wish them great success but all this seems a bit too good to be true. Elaphe motors from Slovenia also tried with in-wheel motors yet Aptera switched to a central motor for some reason.
THIS! The engine must be as robust as a wheel bearing or the breaking system. I guess regenerative breaking could work as break and maybe inversing polarity as a hard break... but as you said if they use permanent magnets shocks, vibration, water etc are a huuuge problem
show us the wheels. WE are not easily impressed with CGI, graphics and slide shows
auto motor @630kW max power, something is getting hot with say a 95% efficiency, how is the 30kW heat produced cooled ?
@@finnbrodersen it depends on the motor and the use-case. In the case of the motorcycle/scooter motors they are air-cooled, but that particular automotive motor is liquid cooled.
Seems too good to be true, so it probably is (talking mainly about the numbers), but I don't doubt that this is a cutting edge motor.
For anyone wondering, the graph shown at 7:00 only applies for the automotive motor, the rest of the motors fall within the 'Torque density focused competitors' whilst the drone motor comes in at the bottom left
That graph only compares our automotive motor with other automotive motors in the industry. The drone/scooter/motorcycle motors are similarly better when compared with their equivalents.
@DonutLabOffical: Next investment round?
@@DonutLabOfficial I understand, but I find it misleading
The solution to solve cross manufacturer incompatibility is not to create another walled garden. It is to establish a shared industry interface between the common components.
40 kg of sprung mass per wheel?!? Nonsense IMHO , or I have misunderstood chassis technology! The motors should be on the inside at the end of a drive axle!
I've had a similar idea for ages, but the biggest problem is sealing the huge seams between the rotor and the stator that is on both sides along the circumference of the "donut". Then there is the high unsprung weight x4 because we have 4 of these wheel-motors.
Yep exactly my thoughts. Bearings that size cost and are Subsceptible to everything, and the gap is also an issues because it's so close to the dirty ground.
As a mechanic, I'm worried about how I replace the tires for your customers in the future.😅
Well some stuff does not stack up, namely unsprung mass concerns and durability on a very harsh location along with barake application but I would like to stay hopeful. What are the target markets? Massive OEMs and/or DIY/kit car/startups? I'm hoping for a future were I can easily assemble my own car and tell OEMs and dealers to sod off 😊
Too good to be true😁. I hope the IPR's are well covered and they manage to integrate to the industry.
Man, these motors would be absolutely perfect for electric unicycles! Even the donut shape is just like tailor made for them. Extreme torque and low weight are the most important things for an EUC motor, power is a good deal less important as it is pretty much impossible to go more than 100km/h on them because of the wind resistance. These things would be even better suited for EUCs than the Magnax or YASA axial flux motors.
That would be cool!
@@DonutLabOfficial If you are interested in that use case for your motors you should contact Jason McNeil. He is the owner of ewheels, the biggest EUC retailer in the USA (and the world). He has got excellent contacts to several EUC manufacturers in China.
It would be perfect to put the batteries inside the hub and make them thinner. I only think if the cooling would be a problem.
Where can I short??
"Wave goodbye to unsprung mass."
- literal unsprung mass donut motor
Instead giving lectures please demonstrate the motor practically. I suspect this is marketing gimmick to raise funds.
Our motors are at various stages of development, from early virtual design to prototyping and full production. For example Verge Motorcycles is already using our motors, and you can check out their website and RUclips channel to see them in action. Additionally, our launch partners, Oruga and Hyper Q Aerospace, are building on our platform. We look forward to sharing more details and use cases in the future.
Blah blah blah.
Don't promote engineering to the end user. Put the engine in a well-known car and show the difference.
But there are engineers in the public :) ... and I can assure you that there was not all that much engineering in this video. Mostly empty claims.
I do agree, a real prototype and a practical demonstration would have been good and necessary.
@@SciFiFactory Yes, and engneers in the public follow the tear down titan, Sandy Munro.
He explain why is why. Plain and simple
It isn't hard to build a high performance EV. It only is a money pit that isn't profitable. The market needs time and new companies like you guys, to grow sustainable and profitable.
My dream is to rebuild my own car, it'll be a Toyota Yaris!! But I want it fully electric. Builds like that will be viral here on RUclips, but I first need to save some more cash to start.
Finally, the world needed this!❤
We love hearing this kind of enthusiasm and look forward to sharing more as we continue to grow.
Would be nice to have conversations kits for existing gas cars.
How would you take the mechanical motion via driveshaft and axles and convert that efficiently to electricity? Think this is a solution that is engineered specifically for a battery....
It is much easier to use a normal electric motor and mount it where the engine went.
Possible, but at the expense of redesigning half the car just to get a worse version of a car that was made for motors like this from the start. Cost prohibitive and wildly impractical.
Groundbreaking! It was about time to rethink electric motors, as there are still plenty of opportunities for development in them.
The idea of having one universal intercompatible platform sound great and all, but I feel the reason all vehiles currently dont use the same universal powertrain isnt because it's heretofore been impossible, its just not desirable. For established brands, the time and cost of developing and integrating a bespoke powertrain solution is worth it to optimise for whatever specific characteristics they need for that vehicle, so it stands out in that specific market.
Number 1000 sub. Congrats lads, continue with the good work.
The motor having almost direct contact with the ground meaning this motor will need to take extreme abuse. New tires and wheels will need to absorb the the final impact on the motor itself. While not eliminating the up/down travel of the suspension. Using the not yes released airless tires may achieve some of the impact. Using that same technology on both sides ( inner/outter) the motor could be developed.
Hey everyone, that all sounds really good. It would be helpful to see that the Verge motorcycle would work well with the motor/battery/controller in conjunction with the software - does it?
I think integration will be difficult. All current designs do not take into consideration to have such a sensitive part (like a motor) almost in touch with the road. Imagine all the vibration and forces that the motors themselves will be put through, especially when the road conditions are not optimal.
But then again, technology these days is amazing, maybe Bose suspension will make a good pairing, who knows?
Thank you for your comment and insights. You’re absolutely right that placing a motor in the wheel comes with unique challenges, which is why our design has been carefully engineered to handle vibrations, forces, and varying road conditions. The entire system, including suspension integration, has been developed to ensure durability and reliability. We appreciate your thoughts and interest! 👌🏼
@@DonutLabOfficial hi, chatgpt
If you make parts half as well as you put together a sick beat then I’m excited.
Haha, glad you enjoyed the beat! We promise our parts are made with just as much care, maybe even more. Thanks for the excitement, it means a lot! 😉
Apologies for thinking this channel was part of Donut Media when it showed up as a suggested channel.
Not a single physical product to showcase. What makes you think you can compete with Elaphe or Protean?
Thank you for the comment! Our motorcycle motor has been in use on Verge Motorcycles for a few years now, make sure to check their website and socials out. And Oruga Unitrack and Hyper Q Aerospace are a few other examples of companies that are building their products on our motors/platform.
@ Those look like interesting applications especially the Oruga, Middle East will be very interested on those. I suggest reducing the cg images on the front page as it currently looks like a fake website with too much cg like the semi truck with a long bonnet which doesn’t make sense in an EV. Anyways, good luck on competing in this space. Looking forward to more content!
You have nicely made videos. In the near future, you MUST make a video tutorial on how to convert a semitruck into a hybrid truck. It should show where the parts can be purchased, how much they cost, how can they be installed, and how much money will they save. You will have a lot of customers if you do it right
I'd want to build an e-scooter with these... too bad I probably won't be able to buy them for many years though...
It's always good to send us your idea and details through the contact form on our website! donutlab.com/contact
Is your motor used on verge
@@ax_l_r8r yes 👍
@DonutLabOfficial that bike is insane
@@ax_l_r8r what bike is that bro
@@Evangelineshorts verge motorcycle
It definitely is!
This all sounds great, but I have yet to see any details on the motor.
It's very good for APTERA!
Can it do regenerative braking?
@@markomodricmail yes it can 👍
I can’t believe that I am seeing these advancements in my lifetime.
yup, clear;
but in your lifetime you have also seen Theranos
Like everyone else commenting, let’s see it applied. I’m here for it. I think converting gas to electric is a huge potential.
Thank you for your comment. Our motors are actually already in use, powering Verge Motorcycles. Check their website and search on RUclips to see it in action. We also have motors at various stages of development, from early virtual design to prototyping and full production. Our launch partners, Oruga and Hyper Q Aerospace, are building on our platform as well. We look forward to sharing more details and use cases in the future.
I`m a motor designer for high performance motors. This is just marketing in my opinion. Siemens has the best motor of 1500Nm/50kg designed for aviation. This guys are more than double. It is hard to believe that. At the moment is no material or technology to allow that stated numbers. Everything is based on some simulations, and probably absolute peak value for 5 seconds, that is never feasible in real life. It is nothing revolutionary about this motor in my opinion.
Any motor can consume 630kW, only most will not work afterwards.
It all screams like marketing scam. There is a reason why cars are not puting motors directly to the wheels, even the ones with 4 independent motors. The amount of vibration would decrease reliability.
A motorcycle has this motor on it now Verge motorcycles check it out.... I'm interested in this tech... Let me know after you check what they have made
It's a very nice and innovative technology but as all emerging technologies the big questions are costs and how much of that saved weight becomes gained autonomy and last but not least maintenance costs
Need specialised suspension systems to deal with the unsprung weight as well as lower the overall frames weight to increase motor efficiency to make hub motors work, that said this is a pretty good upgrade
Very cool to see a hub motor that uses all that space like that.
But how are the bearings? It looks like it would need giant hula hoop bearings which would mean a lot more movement compare to a regular wheel bearing and possibly faster wear.
So, are we buying it or 'liscensing' it?
Interesting architecture , where was this video shot?
“It’s really hard to build great EVs with high performance, profitability, and reliability”……… No it isn’t. Earnings and profit margins are public for most of these manufacturers, and the margins are insane per unit compared to ICE.
Would be kinda insane to see an escooter with dual donut motor
30kw peak performance if all is true!
how the vehicle will stop is theres no brakes can be on the wheels?
Regenerative braking. The use the motor to act as a break and creates power to send back to the battery.
@@somenygaard sounds great, but what if motor fails to brake? For example, when driving through a snow or water?
It's dictated by law that there is redundant mechanical brakes for every street legal vehicle. They'll figure that small thing out
@@lefotografion yeah, that's what I'm talking about)
Does it have gear reduction inside??
That torque number seem too good to be true.
Great move to focus on the drive train than to make motorcycles!
Can you show/explain us the efficiency of the motor in respect of the different rpms? ...at especially low rpms and where ist the optimum efficiency?
Not sure how this got into my feed, but interesting. Hope producers get to test these things and see if the claims are real. Looking forward to products built with these components. Again, if claims are true, I'll buy the products. Let's go OEMs!
My theory is that the company paid for bots to view and comment on this video to fan engagement. Let’s be real, this video is all claims and 0 evidence. Quite frankly ridiculous if they’re serious about the claims they’ve made. By the point, we’ve seen this pattern many times before, and it usually ends in a scam.
Unfortunately I’m helping them by commenting, but I can only hope that everything they’ve said is completely accurate, and that they truly will revolutionize the next step in EV development.
sounds too good to be true
Just 🤯. Love it
Thank you for the excitement! We’re glad you love it and can’t wait to show you even more of what’s to come.
⚡ ⚡ ⚡ Let's go!
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is
Spoilers: It is. There is a reason there are currently zero cars using hub motors on the mass market.
Can this motors be used to convert ice cars in ev?
How much it will be cost?
cool guys, the presentation looks like an apple product =)
Make the software open source and your products repairable and of course without subscriptions and you have my interest
What a great idea.Best of wishes.
How do the motors sound at speed?
We don’t have a dedicated video of the motor’s sound by itself yet, but we’ll definitely share one in the future. In the meantime, you can check out Verge Motorcycles’ footage to hear the motor on the bike in action.
Well done 👍🏻
I can’t help but to think moving the motor to the center line and connecting it to opposite wheels with driveshafts would’ve give better handing and more durability compared to an in-wheel hub motor.
It seems like they talk about power and weight savings but not about actual electrical efficiency. The real key is how few electrons are needed to power the motor, not about maximum power output. Nonetheless, I think this is a cool advancement.
What happens when you bend the wheel? It will damage the motor? If yes than insurance for this vehicles will be quite high.
Would love to see actual installations up close. How does this affect breaks packaging?
verge motorcycles use donut platform as their motor
Impressive machine. How about hitting some pothole at average vehicle speed?
How can I get a kit?
Train time! Let's goooooo
Here B4 this is big comp
Where is James Pumphrey? I came here for James.
What about owners having the right to repair? If it doesn't I would never buy a vehicle with it.
Rather than speaking of an hypercar show it
I need one of these for my ZTR mower
Tim Cook uses the same company for speech writing!
yep, looks like an apple presentation
I can imagine the future. CATL or ByD blade X Donut .
Where is the price
My problems (it's totally fine if you don't agree) with EV motorcycles are weight of the batteries, cost, and the sound. Sound is very important. It's not really the motor, it's the batteries. And maybe the sound, if speaking performance, you want to hear the sound of the good engines. But if you talk about regular A to B commuter vehicles, then everything should be fine, minus the charging time I guess. But it's still much smoother, much cleaner, and torque is almost constant across all regime. For cost you could use Fe16N2 clean earth magnets maybe.
Much graphics, where product?
What about braking?
Awesome!
Keep your eye on the Donut, not the hole.
I’m thinking you don’t have any working prototypes or we would have seen it. You mention the hyper car study and quote statistics as if they actually existed.
When I see content like this I can’t help but think the push to secure funding is the next step. If everything was as you try to make it seem funding should come from investors who understand the significance of these claims. It’s much harder to mislead those investors than it would be for an average person. Liquid piston has been at this game for a while.
Thank you for your comment. Our motors are at various stages of development, from early virtual design to prototyping and full production. Verge Motorcycles is already using our motors, showcasing real-world applications of the technology. Years of development and testing have gone into making this a reality, and our launch partners are building on our platform as well. We appreciate your feedback and encourage you to follow along as we continue to share more about our work.
saved 200 litres but 100kgs? serious? where is your battery?
Sounds exciting, but I, like many others, want to see this in a real demo instead of just renders. Case studies are a start, but for this to get real traction (pun intended) you'll need to back up these claims with experimental proof, not calculated proof. If you do pull it off though, you can bet I'll be looking to buy a car with your motors in it asap.
Thank you for your thoughts! Our motorcycle motor has been in use on Verge Motorcycles for a few years now and they are a great example of the performance these motors can achieve. And Oruga Unitrack and Hyper Q Aerospace are a few examples of companies that are building on top of our platform/motors.
Stay tuned for more content in the near future, going deeper into the motors and showcasing these products using our motors.
I don’t understand the quadcopter drone motor. 120mm is huge! Does that include the propeller? Why?
1.5kg for this class is also huuuge! What kind of drones are you building??
40 kg et donne 300 CV hâte de voir ça
nm values, kw values, rpm values in the video are out of calculation and impossible values and do not fit any formulation.
I Donut believe you.
So my questions to you:
At what voltage can these be used, I'm specifically interested in the 12 inch version.
There are something called EUCs, electric unicycles. Their motors plus 14" rim weight around 14kg, they also have around 300nm torque and peak wattage i reached was 28000w. Also go 117kmh, 170 kmh freespin.
So my question, is your stated speed freespin or actual achievable top speed when in a vehicle ridden?
At what voltage does your donut run? New EUC motors run between 151v amd 168v.
How do you seal these hughe bearings? We had long lasting issues with rusting EUC motors when the hollow bore ones came out.
What would be a prize for the 12 inch motor? EUC motors go for around 400-500€.
@@lefotografion thank you for your comment! Please contact us through the contact form on our website for more details. donutlab.com
You know what would really set this hub motor apart? If they actually sell them.
Edit: I mean direct sales instead of only attempting B2B, which never works out.
Hopefully Japan car manufacturers might invest this since they are struggling against China EV
EMP proof???
🤔
If you're not designing this type of protection into such technology, it'll be useless in the next few generations, or less...
Beautiful work, though!
I suggest the development of even more robust capability (electromagnetic protection) now that you've improved the power to weight. Bet you can do A LOT with less than 2% total mass addition for the final product. You'd lead further leaps and bounds over your competitors with investment into this type of reliability.
Either way, what an awesome 👌 product. Keep scaling up and VTOL this!!!
Change tyres will be tedious 😅
I see only one donut.
This is stupid & bad. You can’t even get your vague nonsense right. FFS, unsprung weight has absolutely nothing to do with torque density. Cars are already capable of precisely controlling power to the wheels, not hundreds of times a second (it’s not 1960), thousands of times a second. It’s not novel. Hell, it doesn’t even require an electric drivetrain. Any latency associated with gearbox backlash will be so tiny, so ridiculously minuscule, that a car would need to be built with the same tolerances as high precision laboratory equipment for it to make a measurable difference. You could achieve an equivalent improvement to vehicle performance by ensuring the driver skipped out on their breakfast that morning, or forgoing those big, fuzzy dice around the mirror. It’s bonkers! Say I have a car that can modulate power to its wheels 10,000 times a second. I have an identical car that can modulate its power to its wheels 100,000 times a second. Can I modulate power delivery 100,000 times/ sec in a way that the car reacts any differently than had I sampled that same modulation curve at regular intervals 10,000 times/ sec? Only if the time between modulating the power & seeing a measurable result is less than 1/10,000th of a second. And guess what? It’s not. Even if it was, the improvement would be so marginal as to be effectively imperceptible. Because the fact of the matter is there’s not a lot relevant to vehicle performance that changes from 1/100,000th of sec to the next. You’d be chasing diminishing returns. But again, we’re well past that point already.
Seriously? How did you manage to put together a video that’s both devoid of information AND misinformative? That takes something. It’s not talent. It’s not brains. It’s *definitely* not looks, but it’s something.
This is awesome Donut!! I love the keynote style presentation and i really hope Lavoie can make an electric scooter with one of these!! This is so cool!!
Why didn’t you show the motor actually doing it’s intended purpose in real life? If you wanted to come off as a vaporware type of company, this is exactly how you do it. Make bold claims, use buzzwords, and then never show a working product. Also start using the horsepower metric, 95% of people have no idea how to compare kw to hp without using a conversion calculator. Know your audience and speak to them on their terms.
Only thing launched here is hopes and dreams
Who approved this video to come? Who thought it's a good idea to do a product launch without showing the product properly or cover the most basic technical questions and backing the wild claims?
Put in on EV, need at least 2 motors design on left and right wheel, cost may increase