Alayna saying "we consent" to Mak's Trauma dumping made me realize the importance of consenting these types of things for your own mental health and I think this is not talked about enough
Yes, exactly! Also, I've learned to ask for support from multiple people, and I acknowledge if they don't have the emotional energy that I've texted several friends for help. When someone gets back to me, I send a follow-up text saying I found someone to talk to and have a great day! I used to rely entirely on one person because I didn't want to put my problems all over. I discarded that shame and gave my best friend a break, and built a broader support network.
Yes, exactly! I realized several years ago both to ask before I share something that may be a little intense and also to tell someone when I can't hold space in that moment for their sharing. Healthy boundaries like that are so important to keep from being drained by people - or being the "drainer," so to speak.
Trans enby here - short version is you nailed it, covered lots of the angles, didn't cis-splain, genuinely and truly well done, cis people absolutely can and do experience gender dysphoria, and nobody gets to shove a label on anybody ever ❤️ A couple extra things you didn't mention and may not have heard before (though other people may have covered it in the comments), a cis woman getting breast implants is gender affirmation surgery. A cis man going to the gym to bulk up is also gender affirmation. Cis people also go on hormones for gender affirmation. Cis people experience dysphoria, cis people get misgendered, cis people change their names (hello marriage), and cis people do things socially and medically to affirm their gender. Whether a cis woman always wants breasts or only sometimes, that's a presentation thing, not strictly a gender thing (which you said and nailed in the video). Mak says she's cis and pronouns are she/her? Absolutely 100% she's cis. You know, because identities are self determined, and other people need to get a new hobby.
A cis woman getting breast implants or a cis man going to the gym to bulk up is not necessarily about gender affirmation, it can also be related to their body image or body goal. I think it's also important to bear in mind the difference between gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia. While gender dysphoria is tied to the concept of gender identity, body dysmorphia is related to a body image perception. Because gender identity is often linked with body image, they're often discussed together and even more often confused.
@Ina I saw this mentioned below and should have further commented. Breast implants or bulking up CAN be gender-affirming for cis people. Or it can be body image related like you said, it would vary from person to person. I (and gender-diverse friends I have) tend to use "dysphoria" and "gender dysphoria" interchangeably, to the point I had forgotten the was a difference until reading a comment below. And I don't see dysmorphia frequently used and forgot that nuance too. Depending on the motivation, they CAN be linked to body dysphoria, but not always. Thanks for clarifying!
@@ina5369 anything that reinforces your gender TO YOU is gender-affirming. For some that’s a bottom surgery, for example labial reduction surgeries, things done to “tighten” things up down there- can be EXTREMELY gender affirming for cis women. And the way that incels speak about facial reconstruction surgeries to get a certain “masculine” look is also EXTREMELY gender affirming for them (they are gross people, but they also need to reinforce their gender to themselves). I think it is naive to think that gender dysphoria isn’t on a spectrum and that it can be reinforced to those who are trans and those who are in-between and those that are cis. The fact that anyone can benefit from gender affirming care… just shows how much of a construct it is vs something that is innate.
@Katie Ha I know that it can be gender affirming. That is why I said it's not necessarily about gender affirming. I was trying to point out that the motive behind the same action is not the same for everyone. I'm sorry for not being clear enough.
With the caveat of being a straight cis-male, I have learned that gender dysphoria exists throughout the gender-identity spectrum. A lot of old-fashioned stereotypes cause, and are caused by, gender dysphoria. It has been the source of body modification and cosmetic surgery in conventional media, where people don't feel "masculine enough" or "feminine enough", the most famous being the boob job.
Yeah, absolutely. Gender dysphoria exists across the board. If you feel like you don’t fit your gender in the way you want/need to, that’s probably dysphoria. It’s not exclusive to trans and nonbinary folks.
As a lesbian trans woman, I 100% believe that the source of all the disgusting "alpha male" podcasts where they spend hours obsessing over their masculinity and tie it into every single tiny aspect of their lives, is gender affirming behaviour sourced in dysphoria.
Hi ladies, I’m a middle aged woman who has had Breast Cancer, having had an operation to remove breast tissue which left me without breasts I still am a woman. I haven’t decided whether I want to have surgery to replace what I’ve lost. But I can say for sure even though I’m a butch looking woman with no breasts, I am still very much a woman and if I were younger I would have had reconstructive surgery by now for sure.
Honestly, you three together make the ultimate podcast. You are funny, serious, supportive and empathetic at the same time. You are what internet needs!! Thank you!!! :)
trans listener, writing in: other people telling you your gender or gender expression is wrong. trans people understand that feeling pretty well also gender dysphoria is valid regardless of identity, and many people choose not to pursue medical transition (including HRT) while identifying as trans, etc. thanks for sharing some of that exploration publicly, Mak! seeing someone else explore that and concluding "not for me" is also really really important and definitely helped some people out there
I feel like it's young cis people who are doing it the most. I would like to think most trans people would know that telling someone what their gender is is the fastest way to keep someone closeted if they are trans. Besides, if you can be trans without dysphoria you can be cis with dysphoria
@@Neveko hard agree. I think my wording was unclear - just trying to say that gender identity and expression are personal, that no one should be assigning them to others, and that trans people understand the feeling of having it assigned incorrectly. not that trans people are doing it in this case (collectively, because we all share a single brain) good point about transmedicalism/dysphoria, thanks for mentioning that!
Fellow trans listener, totally agree with this thread. Denying someones gender experiences and perception is immensely counterproductive to making gender exploration safe. I think that countermanding a categorical classification of a person especially a testimonial is fundamentally patriarchal and oppressive. I get that people might think they are trying to a make space for Mak to explore being trans, as gender dysphoria and transness have a lot of intersection. However, using that intersection at a population level to demand conformity to an identity for an individual is grossly invalidating. Trying to predict what a person's path through gender also just reinforces the assumption that outside observers know a person better than the person knows themself. This is the same line of thinking (just inverted) that TERFs use to try and exclude trans women from fem spaces. It is the invalidation of personal truth. Moreover, I think it really draws attention to how trans illiterate the general population is due to the absolute dearth of trans representation and trans voices. I still think we are in a space where trans experiences are still relegated to spectacle and not subsumed into a relatable ubiquitous human experience - to be different, but the same.
Trans/enby here and the TL;DR is Mak you did nothing wrong, and Alayna and Ashley were 100% right. I think where the original reaction comes from is a lot of trans people are starving for community, acceptance, and representation. When we see something we connect with we can reach out and grab onto it, in ways that are *meant* to be like a “you’re one of us, WELCOME” but it can definitely be over-eager and in identifying ourselves we fail to identify what might be different. Aaaaaand part of why it is so easy for many of us to act like this is we haven’t properly normalised the nuances of dysphoria (and untangled ourselves from the medicalisation of it), as a community we still have this idea of a “pattern” of transness that you either match or don’t match, when really everyone’s experiences are much wider and frankly more beautiful than that. From personal experience, I had *ridiculous* gender dysphoria so I figured “oh, in that case I must be a woman” and it wasn’t until after I had a body I was comfortable that I realised “oh, so I’m definitely not a man but also I’m pretty sure “woman” isn’t it either.” when I was younger the absolutionist trans thinking really helped me, but it could never get me all the way to happy, I recommend anyone who catches themselves thinking like that to just remind themselves that the ultimate thing is we should get to be who we want to be, regardless of our bodies, society, or even how we used to think we should be. ❤
I couldn't agree more, especially with what you said about how we haven't properly normalized the nuances of dysphoria and untangled ourselves from medicalization. Many trans people are stuck in a very binary way of thinking which doesn't leave space for the full spectrum of gender and sex experiences
I've always felt comfortable identifying as a binary trans mans, but because I'm also gay I end up being gnc when it comes to straight standards of masculinity but not as much for gay standards of masculinity so I've never felt any kinship to the idea of being NB. I'm happy with being a man, even if I'm not a typical man. That said, I'm really happy for people who do find solace in non-binary labels and recognize that identity is about freedom rather than boxes. I don't feel limited by identifying as a man, but if you feel like the binary isn't you, go for it! Live life as the person you know yourself to be.
❤ yes!! as a trans person i love when cis people recognize and acknowledge experiencing dysphoria; it isn’t an exclusively trans experience and i wish more people knew that!
Lmao at the scene that popped into my mind: Ashley and Alex in the doctors examination office and the doctor spots a beautiful egg of Ashley’s and Ashley yells to Alex, “ZOOM ZOOM”
The only thing wrong with these podcasts is that they are too short! I want long endless conversations because I so enjoy listening to them and I feel so validated here
omg Mak talking about liking her chest sometimes but wanting it to be flat during other times is the most relatable thing ever!!! I was starting get scared (? anxiety? im not sure? just an uncomfy feeling) that I might be trans (not that there's anything wrong about being trans, I just get anxious thinking about my own gender/sexuality in general) but hearing the fam say that experiencing momentary spurts of gender dysphoria (didn't even know that was the term to describe this experience btw, like intellectually I knew what it meant, I just never thought it would apply to me... if that makes sense??) does not equate to being trans made me so relieved :')) "I love being seen as a woman, I just don’t like my chest sometimes" is something that should have been so logical in hindsight that now I'm staring at past me like, "Man, you are so dumb." idk man gender is weird sometimes :')) Thanks so much for sharing your conversation, pretty sure a million light bulbs just clicked over my head just now.
Yes!!! I found that part very relatable as well. Pretty much exactly sums up how I feel. And Although I understand what you’re saying, past you is definitely not dumb for not knowing exactly how to navigate/articulate that feeling exactly :)
Haha yeah I'm a cis woman and I have a binder cos sometimes I'm like you know what today's a no boobs day. I used to just have flattening bras cos getting a binder felt like a trans thing but eventually I was like hey sometimes I like to make my chest flat and there are products out there made to do that.
honestly that fear of "not being your gender" is very much so gender dysphoria, even if from a hypothetical "what if not liking my boobs all the time made me not my gender" like that can be you feeling dysphoric from that thought. The idea of being scared of your own gender being wrong is a very dysphoric one, as you are picturing yourself being "not your gender" and your body/mind going "ugh no i wouldnt like that thats not me".
dont know if its gonna be read. I am trans, I think it is valid to have issues with sex specific body parts while being cis. Because cis simply means you identify with the sex you are born with, which Mak does. And even if a women is cis, your breasts, ultimately, it is a personal and (could be) aesthetic and practical part that is your choice to have. And being transgender is a very identity based thing, and no one should be in the place of speculating anyone’s transness
Trans person here! Honestly, thank you so much for this conversation. It's so good to normalize cis people talking about their experiences of gender, especially for things that we've been taught don't line up with what trans "should" be, or what "cis" should be. I'm not an academic expert in gender studies, but from my experience & perspective, everyone has a gender identity in some form or another (even if that's rejecting gender completely) & everyone's taught to feel a lot of (mostly negative) things about how their bodies & brains & souls & lived experiences fit into gender boxes. Dysphoria is "the state of feeling very unhappy, uneasy, or dissatisfied," and gender dysphoria is just how you feel that in relation to gender. I think the confusion comes in when people assume that gender dysphoria can only be about your internalized gender identity, rather than your broader & somewhat external experience of gender / gender presentation / gender expression / etc. In the grand scheme of things, how we culturally understand gender is entirely dictated by late-stage, colonial capitalism, so feel however you feel, express your gender however you want, and trust your body more than the stories you've been taught to think.
Yes, this! Another trans person here to say normalize cis dysphoria! To quote Abigail from Philosophy Tube, otherwise you may as well call gender dysphoria "Mad [t-slur] Disease" and I think she's so right about that.
I related so much to Ashley when she was talking about how it affects her when people mistake her gender identity. I’m a girl with short hair who has naturally a pretty masculine face and who dresses pretty masculine, but I don’t feel like I’m not a girl. It really annoys me because basically every new person that I meet mistakes me for a guy, so that part I related to heavily.
@Alex Orpin I totally get that, I'm a trans man but I have long hair and a somewhat androgynous face so when I'm shaved people don't always realize I'm a guy before I speak. I'm 100% confident in my identity as a man, I just happen to like having long hair and an androgynous look (I like to use the term "Elf Masculinity" lol) but sometimes my dysphoria tries to creep in and be like "people wouldn't respect your gender if they knew you were trans!" Which doesn't bother me so much now that I have top surgery, but it does make me a little paranoid sometimes. Anyway I kinda rambled but keep on being strong in being yourself!!! You are 100% the person you feel yourself to be even of it can be frustrating sometimes to exist counter to people's expectations and not have them understand you.
I love hearing Alayna go more in depth about these topics especially when she continues on her ‘serious train’ lol but it’s really admirable how well spoken she is and she really takes time to look at different perspectives in a way that includes and validates everyone’s experiences ❤
Cis people can absolutely experience gender dysphoria. What about cis women being uncomfortable with facial hair? Or cis men who get surgery because of gynecomastia? Cis people get gender affirming care to alleviate dysphoria all the time. And yes Alayna is so right, trans folks aren't defined by their dysphoria. Many don't experience dysphoria at all and identify their transness through their experience of gender euphoria instead. (I'm agender✌️)
As a trans person my dysphoria doesn’t come from my body, I actually feel comfortable in my own body. It’s the way that ppl around look at me/my body and assign gender roles/identity onto me, that causes dysphoria. For example, I can feel completely fine about my chest, until my mom suggests I try a push up bra bc “boobs are better when round and perky” and “it’s lady like”.
I don't usually feel dysphoric because I don't think about my body that much. Once in a while I will see my whole body in a mirror while walking on the street, and then I remember that my appearance doesn't entirely match the idea I have of it in my head. What's really confusing about this kind of dysphoria though is how it's so difficult/impossible really to separate what's "personal" feelings about one's body and cisheteronormative societal expectations that feel really pressuring and disgusting. I mean I know one of them is real for sure but is the other one? So difficult to know.
I've talked about this with my girlfriend sometimes and I told her I usually don't like my breasts when I'm wearing clothes (just like Mak says) but when I'm naked it's like I don't care I have boobs and it's not a dysphoric experience, even in public (whenever I can I prefer going for a swim without a top on, I feel very uneasy and dysphoric if I have to wear a swimsuit top)
When saw a tweet by a trans activist saying that cis people should also question/examine their gender, it really opened my understanding up about what it might be like to not feel like when your body doesn't match your identity. Like I'm a femme, cis woman but when I imagine being treated like a man or expected to perform masculinity I felt so icky. It also helped me understand why some clothing/haircuts makes me feel weird or "not like me" even though objectively it looks fine. I think it's empathy building for cis people to think about how their gender expression does or doesn't relate to gender identity. It makes cisgender less of a default and more of just one way to experience gender. Maybe some folks disagree but I thought it was a interesting and useful exercise.
The way I unexpectedly cackled when you were talking about training your face to look good in any lighting and Mak comes in with the "and that's why we're selling a course" 💀
I have similar experiences with boobs feeling uncomfortable for someone not having to be about gender. I remember being a young teenager with big boobs who wore oversized hoodies and sports bras and pretended to be bigger than I was because I was just uncomfortable being sexualised. I still have issues with my posture and feeling like I can stand up straight and puff up my chest because it somehow feels inherently sexual instead of good for my back health and self confidence. And I think that's entirely unrelated to my gender.
Can I just take a moment for Ashley Appreciation ? Like seriously, how are you so funny and so vulnerable and secure *and smart* you know what I mean? She’s working on herself and honest about it. Anyways Ashley is genuinely one of the best people I know of. Just like generally. She inspires me to do better because she doesn’t make it look easy she’s just real about how it’s hard but worth it Ok Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
As a trans person, i think the problem is with the term "gender dysphoria" your sensations and feeling might be the same but i think that's the term that doesn't fully represent your experience. I think the term might be "body dysphoria", because your dysphoria doesn't seem to be directed at your gender, like you don't have a problem with your gender, only with your body? I just wanted to say it because you wanted to know about a trans person point of view. I want to thank you for everything you do.
That's what I think the problem is too. I'm a cis person but I have a trans brother and many trans friends who have always taught me that gender dysphoria is what's caused by the non correspondence of biological sex and gender identity. I too as a cis girl have experienced what Mac was talking about and that is so common, I just wouldn't call it the same way because it doesn't really relate to gender identity. Thank's for talking about these stuff by the way :))
Now that makes sense to me. As a cis person I live with an idea that gender dysphoria is quite unique of an experience and there’s almost no point in trying to understand that feeling. I think the term gender dysphoria is now well known and widely used in the community to describe one’s experience. Same happened to the term “depression”, maybe? I don’t think it’s bad, but maybe that’s a phase of this terms usage. Now I sound like Mak or other cis person cannot experience gender dysphoria, but that’s not what I’m saying. I just think that there’s more nuance and we may need to expand the vocabulary while talking about our experiences.
Fabulous nuance I didn't notice (I'm trans myself). I'm so used to using dysphoria and gender dysphoria synonymously I had forgotten there are different types. Agreed based on what I remember from the episode that body dysphoria is likely more accurate (unless Mak feels it is related to her gender).
I was going to come on here, to say exactly this! I am a trans individual. And completely agree with them 100% in that no one can say what your experience is. No one can tell you you are trans. Or not trans. This is just another example of I think nitpicking on exact terms. However I completely agree body dysphoria might have been a better term to use since it's with Mac and her feelings about her body not necessarily gender, if I'm understanding correctly? But again who am I to say, we have these terms to have ways to describe how we are feeling and to relate as humans. Not as something negative, such as making someone uncomfortable or telling em what their experience has to be.
Mak needs the egg steamer contraption. It’s a life saver. You don’t have to wait for boiling water. It’s so easy to make any type of egg…from soft boiled to hard boiled. Also an omelette plate too.
Dude, my grandparents had one in the 80s! A tatty pink plastic bowl with egg holes and a clear lid, you put some water in and they are down quick and easy. Some ingenious old tech that time forgot.
Hey fam! As a long time viewer for each person on the pod, and as an intersex, transgender, and queer person, I just wanted to say that I feel that y'all are spot on. It seems that people get really hung up on labels and what those labels mean to themselves during discussions around identity, and not understanding and accepting how other people that they're interacting with view those labels and accepting how they feel. It seems like one side always has to be "right" and the other side "wrong", when that just isn't how it is. It'd be so much better if people went into discussions around these topics with the goal of trying to understand the individual and not applying that idea to every single person that also uses a certain label. And labels are really only there to begin to grasp and explain to each other how we feel anyhow. That stuff can't be summed up so easily. It's a really easy and slippery slope to police other people's identities and imposing on them how we think they should feel based on our own understanding of things. We should just let people be and accept them as they are in that moment. All that along with the fact that a person's gender identity and sexuality can change overtime, and other people's unwillingness to accept that change happens, it gets so crazy. It's sad that something as beautiful as expressing who we are to one another can get so complicated and hateful.
Not me coming back every day and watching old chosen family videos and then refreshing the page and seeing this episode posted 43 minutes ago, had to do a double take. talk about great timing lol
I think it sucks that people push being trans on others. Its a life changing decision that should not be taken so lightly. My friend transitioned a few years ago and ended up regretting it pretty badly. It was a mix of having strict parents that didnt let them express themselves, and trying to escape being seen as a sexual object that pushed them. Lots of women get cut up into bodyparts almost. Like boobs, legs, ass etc. And not seen as a whole. Which contributes to them not being ok in their own body and mistaking that as trans.
I relate to this gender dysphoria topic so much! I didn't like my boobs since they started showing up in puberty. About 5+ years ago I started binding and it's made such a huge difference in my self confidence etc. Because of this I struggled for years wondering if I was trans. I finally realized that I'm not trans, I just have gender dysphoria with my chest and want to be a masculine presenting woman/person. I'm trying to get top surgery now and I can't wait to have a flat chest! 😭
As a cis, het passing (I'm bi) white guy who's recently come out as trans at 33 I completely understand Mak's journey and despite coming out I still wonder if I'm "trans" enough or if my gender identity is valid and still confused if I'm a trans woman or gender-fluid especially since I'm very much a baby-trans. I know in my head that no one can tell me who I am but I struggle understanding that in my heart and worry about the influence of others on who I am. My experience though is that only you know who you are and no one can tell you who you are which includes your gender identity and how you express yourself. Despite being out I'm more scared than ever because of the rising predominance of transphobia and being rejected by society simply because I am trans.
Hey, you aren't a cis guy! You are trans enough! Even if you completely "pass" or look like your assigned gender at birth. You are trans enough. Find a community, online or irl to feel safe. You might be in an area that is very transphobic but there is a safe group for you!
@TeeJay thank you ❤️ I actually live in a very metropolitan area and probably one of the more accepting places in the UK but the media narrative and the likes of J K Rowling are what scares me.
I’ve been trying to write something here to let you know that it’s okay to not fit neatly into anyone else’s boxes. I’m AFAB agender lesbian; I don’t identify with being trans because I’m essentially woman passing, I identify as a woman (shared history of discrimination as a woman is the reason why), and I’m never going to transition-I’m okay with this body I was born into. AND in my head I’m both. Despite appearing femme, when I was younger I could believably do male drag-meaning, I could easily switch my appearance and my movements and pass. Heck, my movements “passing” as a woman are far less feminine than Harry Styles is at times. If I made some of the cute poses as he does, as many women do, I’d feel like I was posing as a woman, or girly girl, and I’d feel gender dysphoric… like a fraud… I don’t feel like a fraud with my dress and movements being not as girly, being more androgynous. Gender is truly a spectrum/multiple continuums. Some people may comfortably fit at one end of multiple continuums but it’s likely that most people don’t. What does happen is that our expressions of gender that defy stereotype is used to make fun of us. I’ve always loved a bit of gender bending because perhaps that is how I’m wired. Thank goodness for people like me-yes, I know I’m not the only one who likes to see people defy stereotypes (like Harry Styles who is seen as super cute whenever he does). I’ve had people-both male friends and co-workers and female partners-tell me I’m more like a man than a woman (despite appearing femme) despite never having explained to them that I actually feel like both. The men seem pleased with that sort of announcement and the women disappointed. It actually just pisses me off that some people don’t recognise that people don’t fit into neat boxes. I want to just be a friend or lover without anyone feeling the need to fit my gender into a box. I share your fear for trans people generally. I’m super pissed off about the scapegoating.
just writing in to note that cis and trans contradict each other and you should maybe loose the word “cis” to describe yourself, just judging from what you wrote about your gender experience.. It’s all very confusing, so i just hope you’re happy and have a good night:)
Cis people can definitely have gender dysphoria. Cis people get gender affirming care all the time. Clothes, plastic surgery, hair removal etc. all that stuff, people use it often times to deal with their dysphoria and to feel more euphoric.
I would suggest looking up gender dysphoria versus body dysphoria, it might help you understand what you’re experiencing better☺️ this was a great episode, I love how diverse the discussions are in each podcast and you all create a such a safe space for so many people❤
I joined your Patrion and can say it is the best money I ever spent! You, ladies, are awesome. The content is fantastic, and the vibe is loving and caring. This is by far the best Podcast on the internet. I love you guys so much!
Philosophy Tube recently published a very good video about the crisis in the British healthcare system, specifically trans health care. Towards the end, she went in depth about her thoughts on gender dysphoria and how she thinks it contributes to the medicalisation of transness and othering of trans people and just in general the separation between cis and trans people and healthcare. It was really interesting, I recommend it.
Alayna, I love the "serious" train. It's such a positive thing and it makes me feel sad to see you giving yourself a hard time for it. It's so satisfying/important when you go back and finish the thoughts ya'll didn't close out. It helps balance the happy chaos. ❤🧡💛💚💙
This episode covered so many great issues. Thank you for being so open with your own experiences when discussing hard issues. It really helps validate any feelings we have when experiencing similar situations. It really helps to feel like someone out there understands. Especially being in a situation where there is noone else to feel safe around. Love you my chosen family x
If you have a gas stove; place eggs in pot, fill with water just till the eggs are covered. Set flame HIGH and set a timer for 16 minutes. Turn off, drain water, add enough ice to cover eggs (like a Starbucks venti cups worth), set back on stove (not the hot burner you just used) leave for 8-10 minutes, peel. Or place in refrigerator and peel as needed.
Appreciate this so much. My parents, knowing that only my sister is queer, still make unnecessary homophobic comments. Me, being slighly closeted (my mom knows but disregards this fact) gets angry at these comments but can't really do anything. We grew up Catholic and are in a Catholic country.
There's also the Lab14 Library which is amazing, it's photographs of lab1a from all over the world and I found it so helpful back when I was a young adult!! Really normalises every body looking different.
mak's dad reminds me so much of my parents! both are super homophobic, my mum is very very christian (and being around her is like constantly being tested on how christian you are - movies, shows, friends, current issues you talk about are all things you are judged on) and my dad just sucks in general. Leaving home has allowed me to grow so much. Anyway, sorry you have to deal with that Mak, just wanted to say i relate hard!!
My sister (who is small town catholic raised) told me “there will always be small minded people no matter where you go so don’t let them tell you who you are”
LOVED IT! Ashley, I got your text when you were coming to my town this week. I knew I would be out of town but I bought two tickets anyway and gave them to my daughter. She said you were hilarious and she had the best time. Thank you so much for the laughter you gave.
I think something I’d like to contribute to the gender conversation is something that I struggled with a bit, and it’s that you can be a masculine woman and just simply identify as cis. I questioned my gender for a period of time because I wasn’t totally comfortable with everything that came with being female, but now I just identify as a proud dyke. There are female-aligning things that make me dysphoric (eg. being called a lady), and male-aligning things that make me euphoric (eg. wearing men’s underwear), but I think I just had to come to terms with those things just being part of my *cis* identity. There’s nothing wrong with being trans or gender non-conforming, and of course there’s also nothing wrong with being cis either. Everybody has a different experience, nobody should be putting anybody in a box whether it’s a cishet box or queer box
Put egg in pot. Add water to cover eggs. Let water come up to rolling boil. Boil for 3 min. Then turn off gas or electric stove and cover with lid to let it cook all the way through. Then cold water and peel. Adjust time for different yolk requirements.
Mac, hearing your experience/feelings of being a woman and wanting your boobs sometimes and others not (like in a tshirt) was really comforting to hear. I experience the same. I understand where you’re coming from and I think it’s important to hear that you can literally just be you. Be you, whatever that means to you.
If Mac's father is listening and reading comments: Any being of love would want to celebrate and encourage love. Consider this when you react to things that are different than yourself. Do you react to Mac expressing her love with love or do you react with hate?
gender is a very personal thing and very sorry that people were pushing a label that you did not feel suits you. As a enby person I can see how people may have taken that video and assumed things as that is something many usually experience like me. But my advice is that its you who decides who you are! for me I use the term enby in a very expansive way as I often do find myself still relating to like being a black woman but I still experience a lot of dysphoria but that's not what made me feel like enby is the right label like I just knew I was enby. So in your case just because you have dysphoria does not mean you are trans or enby in my opinion. On a lighter note I just feel like my gender is being a lesbian tbh lmao.
Dysphoria is such a difficult topic. A lot of people associate exclusively with trans identity but I think it's beyond that in a lot of ways. There's so many ways straight people end up feeling dysphori about their own bodies and there's probably some kind of overlap over dysphoria and dysmorphia that can be hard to navigate for some folks
guys you could invite fans to one of the pods for questions ,that would be really cool Also thanks guys for creating something that i look forward to every week this podcast means a lot to me makes me believe and gives me hope and also allows me to think more openly ❤
I feel like hearing Mak has made me understand my body AND gender dysphoria is so much more validated. I was a child athlete, misgendered as a boy most of my upbringing, that has had gender affirming surgery to assist in my feeling more like the woman I am. I am a “cis-woman” that is predominantly straight- who often feels like “I miss out by not having a penis” I had my augmentation after my first born because I didn’t want to be flat. 🤷🏻♀️ My oldest is a transgender man. It has been SO VERY DIFFICULT to endure the pressure put on my child: where, I was able to grow into myself with time and come to who I feel I am. Having a history with body dysmorphia with weight and athleticism- was always a part of the course. I find gender perception is a biological warfare in today’s world. Grateful for ya’ll’s candor and kindness as women. Regardless of your sexual preference, being a woman is only ever known by women.
The trick, when the other person says something that tells you you've won, because e.g. they have nothing left to fall back on except "because reasons", is to point out that they did it and therefore you know you've won, and then walk away from the discussion no matter what they say. It's not as good as the other person conceding, but it's a very close second.
What Ashley said about not trying to people please her audience resonated so much. I'm getting my MFA in scenic and production design for theatre & film and recently had a queer director tell me during a critique that I had potential but was still designing for straight audiences and my jaw DROPPED. I'd never even thought about that, and it's totally changed the way I navigate both work *and* life.
Another great episode! I have yet to establish a social life in my first year of college, and this podcast really helps me feel less alone. It amazes me that you three made a podcast that made such a supportive community. ❤
You can double boil eggs as long as you had them in the fridge in between today and second boil and like do second boil within a few hours. The increased risk of Listeria is so minute, you wouldn't want to feed it to a baby but yeah. I know a lot about hard boiled eggs because they're yummy.
i can’t explain how thankful i am that mak talked about gender dysphoria and being cis it’s been so hard for me going through that because i don’t want to be a man but sometimes i hate my chest and sometimes i don’t thank you so much for explaining it and talking about it!!!!!!!
I wish i thought about and questioned my dysphoria this way. I would NOT have gotten top surgery if i had just had conversations about how i was thinking and feeling.
As a trans woman I can say these conversations about gender and gender dysphoria are more important now than ever in and out of the queer community. Thank you and I appreciate you acknowledged your not trans your experience is limited but also talking it out and opening the floor to those who can speak on it.
You can absolutely experience dysphoria without being trans. I think crux is about you wanting to express yourself /body in a way that is contrary to what society has made us think we must. I had extreme dysphoria growing up, questioned whether i wanted go be a boy, but the truth was that i simply needed to express my blend of masculinity and feminity in a way that represented me and felt safe. That blend changes. I even hated my breasts as a teenager, but having a partner love and accept me and my chest and body and the way i express it has completely alleviated any dysphoria. I think you 3 are spot on in saying our community has swung in into a space that is often counter productive to the fact that we just need to let people be, and change how they will, in gender expression and orientation.
As a trans woman, from my perspective you did everything right Mak. I am sorry people were projecting their insecurity onto you. I don't want to apologize for their actions but I would like to acknowledge that being trans can be really hard at times your entire perception of the world might be flipped on its head if you are new to queer culture. That being said it doesn't give anyone a excuse to tell another person what their experience is. Alana literally said it perfectly how hypocritical it would be of a trans person to question another queer person's experience. Side note I love your guys confidence in this video! It is so beautiful to see you living you best lives. I love this podcast so much and didn't realize how much I needed it today. Thank you guys 💖
Alayna I hope you don’t feel bad about your serious inputs. I love your contribution to the show and you add so much to the conversation and dynamic. You’re great. I love all of you! Especially you Ashley *wink*
The way Mak describes her feelings on gender and gender dysphoria is SO incredibly relatable to me. Also Mak, you did absolutely nothing wrong and although people probably had good intentions, it still really sucks for them to declare that they know more than you do about your own identity. We should/can celebrate the experiences that trans & nonbinary people and gender non-conforming or dysphoric cis people share without forcing one identity or another onto people.
You guys put so many of my thoughts and experiences regarding sexuality and gender into words, and made a funny and entertaining episode while doing it! This is quickly becoming one of my favorite podcasts, thanks guys :')
i love this episode sm, hearing mak's journey with her gender expression and her dad(but my grandma and mom with me), it makes me feel seen I've watched it a couple times now bc some people say the aMe thing about me, that I'm trans and/or invalidate my experience and relationship with my gender thank u for talking about this
I loved this conversation today because one of the things that queer people struggle with today is a sense of perfectionism. Realistically, rationally, we need to just embrace and accept where people are now. Their experience is their experience, it doesn’t need to be anything else other than what it is.
Gender is so interesting. I came out as bi years ago and hoped that people wouldn't bug me about liking or wearing masculine things, how I walk, etc, and am recently understanding that fine line between what we perceive as gender vs sexuality expression, and that can exist without being trans or non binary
Funny. In wisconsin, during the winters, 40yrs ago... After a meal at Perkins, id put my jacket on for expedience. Get up to register and I'd hear, "So, how was everything, Sma'am?". Thats been funny since then. Any of you guys get Sma'am-ed. Lol
I can completely relate to mak most of the times, and this is one. I have struggled (for a short period of time bcoz i move extremely fast in taking actions in my life) with presenting feminine and i felt extremely dysphoric with my long hair and dresses. But now that I present really masc people misgender me all the time. A few days back i saw a trans lady ( I don't live in the area which has trans folks in a non outcast scenario but i did) and she said to me i look like a guy. She wasn't coming from a bad place i could see that in her smile and she thought she was just validating for the way i looked but i can't do anything about it. MY POINT IS I feel so dysphoric sometimes when people call me a boy especially when it is coming form a nice intention, with bad intent i like been called a boy bcoz ig ik they don't actually believe it.
Mak you gotta put the eggs in salted water, bring to a boil, take off the heat and pop a lid on and let them just sit for 15 minutes. As someone who is busy and forgetful this is perfect for me! Even if you forget them for longer than 15 min they’ll still be perfect 😊
Trans listener here. Cis people can absolutely experience gender dysphoria, but most don't have the awareness to recognize it as such, so it's actually really good to see it explicitly called that. I think even some trans people might not quite see how it would happen for cis people.
"When I stopped being a 'fun gay' and became all 'FUCK YOU! gay,' I became who I am today." How to say you're a New Yorker without saying you're a New Yorker...
Alayna saying "we consent" to Mak's Trauma dumping made me realize the importance of consenting these types of things for your own mental health and I think this is not talked about enough
Was just about to post about that too! I love the idea of ppl asking for consent 1st before "trauma dumping."
Yes, exactly! Also, I've learned to ask for support from multiple people, and I acknowledge if they don't have the emotional energy that I've texted several friends for help. When someone gets back to me, I send a follow-up text saying I found someone to talk to and have a great day! I used to rely entirely on one person because I didn't want to put my problems all over. I discarded that shame and gave my best friend a break, and built a broader support network.
Yes!!
Yes, exactly! I realized several years ago both to ask before I share something that may be a little intense and also to tell someone when I can't hold space in that moment for their sharing. Healthy boundaries like that are so important to keep from being drained by people - or being the "drainer," so to speak.
how is it valid? also imagine having/switching "YOUR" pronouns everyday..😂😂
Trans enby here - short version is you nailed it, covered lots of the angles, didn't cis-splain, genuinely and truly well done, cis people absolutely can and do experience gender dysphoria, and nobody gets to shove a label on anybody ever ❤️
A couple extra things you didn't mention and may not have heard before (though other people may have covered it in the comments), a cis woman getting breast implants is gender affirmation surgery. A cis man going to the gym to bulk up is also gender affirmation. Cis people also go on hormones for gender affirmation.
Cis people experience dysphoria, cis people get misgendered, cis people change their names (hello marriage), and cis people do things socially and medically to affirm their gender.
Whether a cis woman always wants breasts or only sometimes, that's a presentation thing, not strictly a gender thing (which you said and nailed in the video).
Mak says she's cis and pronouns are she/her? Absolutely 100% she's cis. You know, because identities are self determined, and other people need to get a new hobby.
This should be higher!!! Thank you for stating this!
A cis woman getting breast implants or a cis man going to the gym to bulk up is not necessarily about gender affirmation, it can also be related to their body image or body goal.
I think it's also important to bear in mind the difference between gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia. While gender dysphoria is tied to the concept of gender identity, body dysmorphia is related to a body image perception. Because gender identity is often linked with body image, they're often discussed together and even more often confused.
@Ina I saw this mentioned below and should have further commented.
Breast implants or bulking up CAN be gender-affirming for cis people. Or it can be body image related like you said, it would vary from person to person.
I (and gender-diverse friends I have) tend to use "dysphoria" and "gender dysphoria" interchangeably, to the point I had forgotten the was a difference until reading a comment below. And I don't see dysmorphia frequently used and forgot that nuance too.
Depending on the motivation, they CAN be linked to body dysphoria, but not always.
Thanks for clarifying!
@@ina5369 anything that reinforces your gender TO YOU is gender-affirming. For some that’s a bottom surgery, for example labial reduction surgeries, things done to “tighten” things up down there- can be EXTREMELY gender affirming for cis women. And the way that incels speak about facial reconstruction surgeries to get a certain “masculine” look is also EXTREMELY gender affirming for them (they are gross people, but they also need to reinforce their gender to themselves). I think it is naive to think that gender dysphoria isn’t on a spectrum and that it can be reinforced to those who are trans and those who are in-between and those that are cis. The fact that anyone can benefit from gender affirming care… just shows how much of a construct it is vs something that is innate.
@Katie Ha I know that it can be gender affirming. That is why I said it's not necessarily about gender affirming. I was trying to point out that the motive behind the same action is not the same for everyone. I'm sorry for not being clear enough.
With the caveat of being a straight cis-male, I have learned that gender dysphoria exists throughout the gender-identity spectrum. A lot of old-fashioned stereotypes cause, and are caused by, gender dysphoria. It has been the source of body modification and cosmetic surgery in conventional media, where people don't feel "masculine enough" or "feminine enough", the most famous being the boob job.
So true!
Yeah, absolutely. Gender dysphoria exists across the board. If you feel like you don’t fit your gender in the way you want/need to, that’s probably dysphoria. It’s not exclusive to trans and nonbinary folks.
As a lesbian trans woman, I 100% believe that the source of all the disgusting "alpha male" podcasts where they spend hours obsessing over their masculinity and tie it into every single tiny aspect of their lives, is gender affirming behaviour sourced in dysphoria.
Exactly this- for example, I have known more than one cis man who has experienced gender dysphoria because of gynecomastia.
Yesssssa
Hi ladies, I’m a middle aged woman who has had Breast Cancer, having had an operation to remove breast tissue which left me without breasts I still am a woman. I haven’t decided whether I want to have surgery to replace what I’ve lost. But I can say for sure even though I’m a butch looking woman with no breasts, I am still very much a woman and if I were younger I would have had reconstructive surgery by now for sure.
❤❤❤
You are a woman and you are valid ❤️
You are not only a woman, you are a strong, admirable woman ❤
how is it valid? also imagine having/switching "YOUR" pronouns everyday..😂😂
@@keelinmacken95522 Wow you transphobes have gone so far that you're calling cis woman invalid for identifying as a woman
Honestly, you three together make the ultimate podcast. You are funny, serious, supportive and empathetic at the same time. You are what internet needs!! Thank you!!! :)
Everyone deserves a friend group like these three
@@galesk344 it is like I would sit with them and just have the best time of my life
The level of how much I relate to Mak’s situation is just insane. I literally do not engage in any conversation with my father.
Wishing you strength my friend ♥️
Same my father also never understands what i am talking about and make everything about himself.
Just came to the comments to say the same thing! 😅
❤❤❤
yep I cut him off bc there’s no point
trans listener, writing in: other people telling you your gender or gender expression is wrong. trans people understand that feeling pretty well
also gender dysphoria is valid regardless of identity, and many people choose not to pursue medical transition (including HRT) while identifying as trans, etc.
thanks for sharing some of that exploration publicly, Mak! seeing someone else explore that and concluding "not for me" is also really really important and definitely helped some people out there
I feel like it's young cis people who are doing it the most. I would like to think most trans people would know that telling someone what their gender is is the fastest way to keep someone closeted if they are trans.
Besides, if you can be trans without dysphoria you can be cis with dysphoria
@@Neveko hard agree. I think my wording was unclear - just trying to say that gender identity and expression are personal, that no one should be assigning them to others, and that trans people understand the feeling of having it assigned incorrectly. not that trans people are doing it in this case (collectively, because we all share a single brain)
good point about transmedicalism/dysphoria, thanks for mentioning that!
@@impatientkaneda aha no worries. My comment is meant to be additive, not critical :)
Fellow trans listener, totally agree with this thread. Denying someones gender experiences and perception is immensely counterproductive to making gender exploration safe. I think that countermanding a categorical classification of a person especially a testimonial is fundamentally patriarchal and oppressive.
I get that people might think they are trying to a make space for Mak to explore being trans, as gender dysphoria and transness have a lot of intersection. However, using that intersection at a population level to demand conformity to an identity for an individual is grossly invalidating.
Trying to predict what a person's path through gender also just reinforces the assumption that outside observers know a person better than the person knows themself.
This is the same line of thinking (just inverted) that TERFs use to try and exclude trans women from fem spaces. It is the invalidation of personal truth. Moreover, I think it really draws attention to how trans illiterate the general population is due to the absolute dearth of trans representation and trans voices. I still think we are in a space where trans experiences are still relegated to spectacle and not subsumed into a relatable ubiquitous human experience - to be different, but the same.
how is it valid? also imagine having/switching "YOUR" pronouns everyday..😂😂
Trans/enby here and the TL;DR is Mak you did nothing wrong, and Alayna and Ashley were 100% right. I think where the original reaction comes from is a lot of trans people are starving for community, acceptance, and representation. When we see something we connect with we can reach out and grab onto it, in ways that are *meant* to be like a “you’re one of us, WELCOME” but it can definitely be over-eager and in identifying ourselves we fail to identify what might be different. Aaaaaand part of why it is so easy for many of us to act like this is we haven’t properly normalised the nuances of dysphoria (and untangled ourselves from the medicalisation of it), as a community we still have this idea of a “pattern” of transness that you either match or don’t match, when really everyone’s experiences are much wider and frankly more beautiful than that. From personal experience, I had *ridiculous* gender dysphoria so I figured “oh, in that case I must be a woman” and it wasn’t until after I had a body I was comfortable that I realised “oh, so I’m definitely not a man but also I’m pretty sure “woman” isn’t it either.” when I was younger the absolutionist trans thinking really helped me, but it could never get me all the way to happy, I recommend anyone who catches themselves thinking like that to just remind themselves that the ultimate thing is we should get to be who we want to be, regardless of our bodies, society, or even how we used to think we should be. ❤
I couldn't agree more, especially with what you said about how we haven't properly normalized the nuances of dysphoria and untangled ourselves from medicalization. Many trans people are stuck in a very binary way of thinking which doesn't leave space for the full spectrum of gender and sex experiences
Thoughtfully stated
LMAO I HAVE TO LAUGH AT THIS!!
I've always felt comfortable identifying as a binary trans mans, but because I'm also gay I end up being gnc when it comes to straight standards of masculinity but not as much for gay standards of masculinity so I've never felt any kinship to the idea of being NB. I'm happy with being a man, even if I'm not a typical man.
That said, I'm really happy for people who do find solace in non-binary labels and recognize that identity is about freedom rather than boxes. I don't feel limited by identifying as a man, but if you feel like the binary isn't you, go for it! Live life as the person you know yourself to be.
❤ yes!! as a trans person i love when cis people recognize and acknowledge experiencing dysphoria; it isn’t an exclusively trans experience and i wish more people knew that!
Lmao at the scene that popped into my mind: Ashley and Alex in the doctors examination office and the doctor spots a beautiful egg of Ashley’s and Ashley yells to Alex, “ZOOM ZOOM”
💀💀💀 There better be some frenetic ZOOM ZOOMs from Ashley when she records her egg retrieval. Absolutely necessary!
“This is a trauma dump.”
“We consent.”
Same 😂
“I will never win until I’m told explicitly that I am correct” is the most NYC thing I’ve ever heard Ashley say
I feel her though❤❤
Not only did you all not introduce yourselves, you also didn't discuss dinner at all. This was intense, and well worth it.
I've gotten "Are you brothers?" 😂
No... We're wives lol
The only thing wrong with these podcasts is that they are too short! I want long endless conversations because I so enjoy listening to them and I feel so validated here
omg Mak talking about liking her chest sometimes but wanting it to be flat during other times is the most relatable thing ever!!! I was starting get scared (? anxiety? im not sure? just an uncomfy feeling) that I might be trans (not that there's anything wrong about being trans, I just get anxious thinking about my own gender/sexuality in general) but hearing the fam say that experiencing momentary spurts of gender dysphoria (didn't even know that was the term to describe this experience btw, like intellectually I knew what it meant, I just never thought it would apply to me... if that makes sense??) does not equate to being trans made me so relieved :')) "I love being seen as a woman, I just don’t like my chest sometimes" is something that should have been so logical in hindsight that now I'm staring at past me like, "Man, you are so dumb." idk man gender is weird sometimes :')) Thanks so much for sharing your conversation, pretty sure a million light bulbs just clicked over my head just now.
Yes!!! I found that part very relatable as well. Pretty much exactly sums up how I feel. And Although I understand what you’re saying, past you is definitely not dumb for not knowing exactly how to navigate/articulate that feeling exactly :)
@@Popopatop thank you for saying that, that's very kind of you!! Hindsight is such a powerful thing :'))
Haha yeah I'm a cis woman and I have a binder cos sometimes I'm like you know what today's a no boobs day. I used to just have flattening bras cos getting a binder felt like a trans thing but eventually I was like hey sometimes I like to make my chest flat and there are products out there made to do that.
honestly that fear of "not being your gender" is very much so gender dysphoria, even if from a hypothetical "what if not liking my boobs all the time made me not my gender" like that can be you feeling dysphoric from that thought. The idea of being scared of your own gender being wrong is a very dysphoric one, as you are picturing yourself being "not your gender" and your body/mind going "ugh no i wouldnt like that thats not me".
dont know if its gonna be read. I am trans, I think it is valid to have issues with sex specific body parts while being cis. Because cis simply means you identify with the sex you are born with, which Mak does. And even if a women is cis, your breasts, ultimately, it is a personal and (could be) aesthetic and practical part that is your choice to have. And being transgender is a very identity based thing, and no one should be in the place of speculating anyone’s transness
Trans person here! Honestly, thank you so much for this conversation. It's so good to normalize cis people talking about their experiences of gender, especially for things that we've been taught don't line up with what trans "should" be, or what "cis" should be.
I'm not an academic expert in gender studies, but from my experience & perspective, everyone has a gender identity in some form or another (even if that's rejecting gender completely) & everyone's taught to feel a lot of (mostly negative) things about how their bodies & brains & souls & lived experiences fit into gender boxes.
Dysphoria is "the state of feeling very unhappy, uneasy, or dissatisfied," and gender dysphoria is just how you feel that in relation to gender. I think the confusion comes in when people assume that gender dysphoria can only be about your internalized gender identity, rather than your broader & somewhat external experience of gender / gender presentation / gender expression / etc.
In the grand scheme of things, how we culturally understand gender is entirely dictated by late-stage, colonial capitalism, so feel however you feel, express your gender however you want, and trust your body more than the stories you've been taught to think.
Yes, this!
Another trans person here to say normalize cis dysphoria! To quote Abigail from Philosophy Tube, otherwise you may as well call gender dysphoria "Mad [t-slur] Disease" and I think she's so right about that.
I related so much to Ashley when she was talking about how it affects her when people mistake her gender identity. I’m a girl with short hair who has naturally a pretty masculine face and who dresses pretty masculine, but I don’t feel like I’m not a girl. It really annoys me because basically every new person that I meet mistakes me for a guy, so that part I related to heavily.
@Alex Orpin I totally get that, I'm a trans man but I have long hair and a somewhat androgynous face so when I'm shaved people don't always realize I'm a guy before I speak.
I'm 100% confident in my identity as a man, I just happen to like having long hair and an androgynous look (I like to use the term "Elf Masculinity" lol) but sometimes my dysphoria tries to creep in and be like "people wouldn't respect your gender if they knew you were trans!" Which doesn't bother me so much now that I have top surgery, but it does make me a little paranoid sometimes.
Anyway I kinda rambled but keep on being strong in being yourself!!! You are 100% the person you feel yourself to be even of it can be frustrating sometimes to exist counter to people's expectations and not have them understand you.
I love hearing Alayna go more in depth about these topics especially when she continues on her ‘serious train’ lol but it’s really admirable how well spoken she is and she really takes time to look at different perspectives in a way that includes and validates everyone’s experiences ❤
Cis people can absolutely experience gender dysphoria. What about cis women being uncomfortable with facial hair? Or cis men who get surgery because of gynecomastia? Cis people get gender affirming care to alleviate dysphoria all the time.
And yes Alayna is so right, trans folks aren't defined by their dysphoria. Many don't experience dysphoria at all and identify their transness through their experience of gender euphoria instead.
(I'm agender✌️)
Hey me too! 👋
As a trans person my dysphoria doesn’t come from my body, I actually feel comfortable in my own body. It’s the way that ppl around look at me/my body and assign gender roles/identity onto me, that causes dysphoria. For example, I can feel completely fine about my chest, until my mom suggests I try a push up bra bc “boobs are better when round and perky” and “it’s lady like”.
makes so much sense 😭
I don't usually feel dysphoric because I don't think about my body that much. Once in a while I will see my whole body in a mirror while walking on the street, and then I remember that my appearance doesn't entirely match the idea I have of it in my head.
What's really confusing about this kind of dysphoria though is how it's so difficult/impossible really to separate what's "personal" feelings about one's body and cisheteronormative societal expectations that feel really pressuring and disgusting.
I mean I know one of them is real for sure but is the other one?
So difficult to know.
I've talked about this with my girlfriend sometimes and I told her I usually don't like my breasts when I'm wearing clothes (just like Mak says) but when I'm naked it's like I don't care I have boobs and it's not a dysphoric experience, even in public (whenever I can I prefer going for a swim without a top on, I feel very uneasy and dysphoric if I have to wear a swimsuit top)
When saw a tweet by a trans activist saying that cis people should also question/examine their gender, it really opened my understanding up about what it might be like to not feel like when your body doesn't match your identity. Like I'm a femme, cis woman but when I imagine being treated like a man or expected to perform masculinity I felt so icky. It also helped me understand why some clothing/haircuts makes me feel weird or "not like me" even though objectively it looks fine. I think it's empathy building for cis people to think about how their gender expression does or doesn't relate to gender identity. It makes cisgender less of a default and more of just one way to experience gender. Maybe some folks disagree but I thought it was a interesting and useful exercise.
The way I unexpectedly cackled when you were talking about training your face to look good in any lighting and Mak comes in with the "and that's why we're selling a course" 💀
I have similar experiences with boobs feeling uncomfortable for someone not having to be about gender. I remember being a young teenager with big boobs who wore oversized hoodies and sports bras and pretended to be bigger than I was because I was just uncomfortable being sexualised. I still have issues with my posture and feeling like I can stand up straight and puff up my chest because it somehow feels inherently sexual instead of good for my back health and self confidence. And I think that's entirely unrelated to my gender.
This! I relate so much.
This, this 💯
the egg discussion was just alayna and mak being dirty and ashley is just over here being sincere like “aw that’s sweet. i like soft boiled eggs”
😂😂❤
I love the judgement in Alayna and Ashley's faces during Mak's egg fiasco. I think everyone has that one friend who can't even prepare ice 🤣
I was incredibly invested in the bouncing Samsung logo on Mak's TV for so long 😂😂
Literally I am always doing homework when these episode gets released
And then your homework gets put on hold until the ep is over...
No? Just me then
Omg Mak, thank you! This is exactly what I've been experiencing the past couple of years. Glad I'm not the only one😆
Can I just take a moment for Ashley Appreciation ? Like seriously, how are you so funny and so vulnerable and secure *and smart* you know what I mean? She’s working on herself and honest about it. Anyways Ashley is genuinely one of the best people I know of. Just like generally. She inspires me to do better because she doesn’t make it look easy she’s just real about how it’s hard but worth it
Ok Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
As a trans person, i think the problem is with the term "gender dysphoria" your sensations and feeling might be the same but i think that's the term that doesn't fully represent your experience. I think the term might be "body dysphoria", because your dysphoria doesn't seem to be directed at your gender, like you don't have a problem with your gender, only with your body?
I just wanted to say it because you wanted to know about a trans person point of view.
I want to thank you for everything you do.
That's what I think the problem is too. I'm a cis person but I have a trans brother and many trans friends who have always taught me that gender dysphoria is what's caused by the non correspondence of biological sex and gender identity. I too as a cis girl have experienced what Mac was talking about and that is so common, I just wouldn't call it the same way because it doesn't really relate to gender identity. Thank's for talking about these stuff by the way :))
Now that makes sense to me. As a cis person I live with an idea that gender dysphoria is quite unique of an experience and there’s almost no point in trying to understand that feeling. I think the term gender dysphoria is now well known and widely used in the community to describe one’s experience. Same happened to the term “depression”, maybe? I don’t think it’s bad, but maybe that’s a phase of this terms usage. Now I sound like Mak or other cis person cannot experience gender dysphoria, but that’s not what I’m saying. I just think that there’s more nuance and we may need to expand the vocabulary while talking about our experiences.
Fabulous nuance I didn't notice (I'm trans myself). I'm so used to using dysphoria and gender dysphoria synonymously I had forgotten there are different types.
Agreed based on what I remember from the episode that body dysphoria is likely more accurate (unless Mak feels it is related to her gender).
I was going to come on here, to say exactly this! I am a trans individual. And completely agree with them 100% in that no one can say what your experience is. No one can tell you you are trans. Or not trans. This is just another example of I think nitpicking on exact terms. However I completely agree body dysphoria might have been a better term to use since it's with Mac and her feelings about her body not necessarily gender, if I'm understanding correctly? But again who am I to say, we have these terms to have ways to describe how we are feeling and to relate as humans. Not as something negative, such as making someone uncomfortable or telling em what their experience has to be.
I will never use pronouns
Mak needs the egg steamer contraption. It’s a life saver. You don’t have to wait for boiling water. It’s so easy to make any type of egg…from soft boiled to hard boiled. Also an omelette plate too.
Dude, my grandparents had one in the 80s! A tatty pink plastic bowl with egg holes and a clear lid, you put some water in and they are down quick and easy. Some ingenious old tech that time forgot.
why did I read contraption as contraception ... it makes no sense on multiple levels haha
Hey fam! As a long time viewer for each person on the pod, and as an intersex, transgender, and queer person, I just wanted to say that I feel that y'all are spot on. It seems that people get really hung up on labels and what those labels mean to themselves during discussions around identity, and not understanding and accepting how other people that they're interacting with view those labels and accepting how they feel. It seems like one side always has to be "right" and the other side "wrong", when that just isn't how it is. It'd be so much better if people went into discussions around these topics with the goal of trying to understand the individual and not applying that idea to every single person that also uses a certain label. And labels are really only there to begin to grasp and explain to each other how we feel anyhow. That stuff can't be summed up so easily. It's a really easy and slippery slope to police other people's identities and imposing on them how we think they should feel based on our own understanding of things. We should just let people be and accept them as they are in that moment. All that along with the fact that a person's gender identity and sexuality can change overtime, and other people's unwillingness to accept that change happens, it gets so crazy. It's sad that something as beautiful as expressing who we are to one another can get so complicated and hateful.
Not me coming back every day and watching old chosen family videos and then refreshing the page and seeing this episode posted 43 minutes ago, had to do a double take. talk about great timing lol
This has become my comfort show, and I was so sad when I finished listening to all the ones that were out lol😂 thanks for doing this you guys!!!
I think it sucks that people push being trans on others. Its a life changing decision that should not be taken so lightly. My friend transitioned a few years ago and ended up regretting it pretty badly. It was a mix of having strict parents that didnt let them express themselves, and trying to escape being seen as a sexual object that pushed them. Lots of women get cut up into bodyparts almost. Like boobs, legs, ass etc. And not seen as a whole. Which contributes to them not being ok in their own body and mistaking that as trans.
I relate to this gender dysphoria topic so much! I didn't like my boobs since they started showing up in puberty. About 5+ years ago I started binding and it's made such a huge difference in my self confidence etc. Because of this I struggled for years wondering if I was trans. I finally realized that I'm not trans, I just have gender dysphoria with my chest and want to be a masculine presenting woman/person. I'm trying to get top surgery now and I can't wait to have a flat chest! 😭
As a cis, het passing (I'm bi) white guy who's recently come out as trans at 33 I completely understand Mak's journey and despite coming out I still wonder if I'm "trans" enough or if my gender identity is valid and still confused if I'm a trans woman or gender-fluid especially since I'm very much a baby-trans. I know in my head that no one can tell me who I am but I struggle understanding that in my heart and worry about the influence of others on who I am. My experience though is that only you know who you are and no one can tell you who you are which includes your gender identity and how you express yourself. Despite being out I'm more scared than ever because of the rising predominance of transphobia and being rejected by society simply because I am trans.
Hey, you aren't a cis guy! You are trans enough! Even if you completely "pass" or look like your assigned gender at birth. You are trans enough.
Find a community, online or irl to feel safe. You might be in an area that is very transphobic but there is a safe group for you!
@TeeJay thank you ❤️ I actually live in a very metropolitan area and probably one of the more accepting places in the UK but the media narrative and the likes of J K Rowling are what scares me.
@grizzlyvamp that's so great. It is scary but we gotta stand together! Community makes us safe!
I’ve been trying to write something here to let you know that it’s okay to not fit neatly into anyone else’s boxes. I’m AFAB agender lesbian; I don’t identify with being trans because I’m essentially woman passing, I identify as a woman (shared history of discrimination as a woman is the reason why), and I’m never going to transition-I’m okay with this body I was born into. AND in my head I’m both. Despite appearing femme, when I was younger I could believably do male drag-meaning, I could easily switch my appearance and my movements and pass. Heck, my movements “passing” as a woman are far less feminine than Harry Styles is at times. If I made some of the cute poses as he does, as many women do, I’d feel like I was posing as a woman, or girly girl, and I’d feel gender dysphoric… like a fraud… I don’t feel like a fraud with my dress and movements being not as girly, being more androgynous.
Gender is truly a spectrum/multiple continuums. Some people may comfortably fit at one end of multiple continuums but it’s likely that most people don’t. What does happen is that our expressions of gender that defy stereotype is used to make fun of us. I’ve always loved a bit of gender bending because perhaps that is how I’m wired. Thank goodness for people like me-yes, I know I’m not the only one who likes to see people defy stereotypes (like Harry Styles who is seen as super cute whenever he does).
I’ve had people-both male friends and co-workers and female partners-tell me I’m more like a man than a woman (despite appearing femme) despite never having explained to them that I actually feel like both. The men seem pleased with that sort of announcement and the women disappointed. It actually just pisses me off that some people don’t recognise that people don’t fit into neat boxes. I want to just be a friend or lover without anyone feeling the need to fit my gender into a box.
I share your fear for trans people generally. I’m super pissed off about the scapegoating.
just writing in to note that cis and trans contradict each other and you should maybe loose the word “cis” to describe yourself, just judging from what you wrote about your gender experience.. It’s all very confusing, so i just hope you’re happy and have a good night:)
Cis people can definitely have gender dysphoria. Cis people get gender affirming care all the time. Clothes, plastic surgery, hair removal etc. all that stuff, people use it often times to deal with their dysphoria and to feel more euphoric.
It bugs me that they haven’t asked Mak for how long she tried to boil the eggs 😂
I would suggest looking up gender dysphoria versus body dysphoria, it might help you understand what you’re experiencing better☺️ this was a great episode, I love how diverse the discussions are in each podcast and you all create a such a safe space for so many people❤
I joined your Patrion and can say it is the best money I ever spent! You, ladies, are awesome. The content is fantastic, and the vibe is loving and caring. This is by far the best Podcast on the internet. I love you guys so much!
Philosophy Tube recently published a very good video about the crisis in the British healthcare system, specifically trans health care. Towards the end, she went in depth about her thoughts on gender dysphoria and how she thinks it contributes to the medicalisation of transness and othering of trans people and just in general the separation between cis and trans people and healthcare. It was really interesting, I recommend it.
Alayna, I love the "serious" train. It's such a positive thing and it makes me feel sad to see you giving yourself a hard time for it. It's so satisfying/important when you go back and finish the thoughts ya'll didn't close out. It helps balance the happy chaos. ❤🧡💛💚💙
This episode covered so many great issues. Thank you for being so open with your own experiences when discussing hard issues. It really helps validate any feelings we have when experiencing similar situations. It really helps to feel like someone out there understands. Especially being in a situation where there is noone else to feel safe around. Love you my chosen family x
therapist alayna was strong in this ep and I’m here for it
If you have a gas stove; place eggs in pot, fill with water just till the eggs are covered. Set flame HIGH and set a timer for 16 minutes. Turn off, drain water, add enough ice to cover eggs (like a Starbucks venti cups worth), set back on stove (not the hot burner you just used) leave for 8-10 minutes, peel. Or place in refrigerator and peel as needed.
Appreciate this so much. My parents, knowing that only my sister is queer, still make unnecessary homophobic comments. Me, being slighly closeted (my mom knows but disregards this fact) gets angry at these comments but can't really do anything. We grew up Catholic and are in a Catholic country.
This is maybe one of my favourite episodes. Mak really handles herself well about her dad. ❤
Alayna girl I was on the same page as you thinking sports is a safe space for male intimacy 😂😂
There's also the Lab14 Library which is amazing, it's photographs of lab1a from all over the world and I found it so helpful back when I was a young adult!! Really normalises every body looking different.
mak's dad reminds me so much of my parents! both are super homophobic, my mum is very very christian (and being around her is like constantly being tested on how christian you are - movies, shows, friends, current issues you talk about are all things you are judged on) and my dad just sucks in general. Leaving home has allowed me to grow so much. Anyway, sorry you have to deal with that Mak, just wanted to say i relate hard!!
omg I so needed this today. This podcast always cheers me up and I always look forward to listening
Same here! Things like this really help w mental health & somehow make me forget about my pain for awhile.
The fight for principalities… is always half of the argument. Powers and Principalities is the game!
My sister (who is small town catholic raised) told me “there will always be small minded people no matter where you go so don’t let them tell you who you are”
LOVED IT! Ashley, I got your text when you were coming to my town this week. I knew I would be out of town but I bought two tickets anyway and gave them to my daughter. She said you were hilarious and she had the best time. Thank you so much for the laughter you gave.
I think something I’d like to contribute to the gender conversation is something that I struggled with a bit, and it’s that you can be a masculine woman and just simply identify as cis. I questioned my gender for a period of time because I wasn’t totally comfortable with everything that came with being female, but now I just identify as a proud dyke. There are female-aligning things that make me dysphoric (eg. being called a lady), and male-aligning things that make me euphoric (eg. wearing men’s underwear), but I think I just had to come to terms with those things just being part of my *cis* identity. There’s nothing wrong with being trans or gender non-conforming, and of course there’s also nothing wrong with being cis either. Everybody has a different experience, nobody should be putting anybody in a box whether it’s a cishet box or queer box
Oh I love you guys ♥️ Thank you for always making my Wednesday!
Mak’s TikTok is actually so relatable, and I feel the same way about them, as a woman
Put egg in pot. Add water to cover eggs. Let water come up to rolling boil. Boil for 3 min. Then turn off gas or electric stove and cover with lid to let it cook all the way through. Then cold water and peel. Adjust time for different yolk requirements.
Mac, hearing your experience/feelings of being a woman and wanting your boobs sometimes and others not (like in a tshirt) was really comforting to hear. I experience the same. I understand where you’re coming from and I think it’s important to hear that you can literally just be you. Be you, whatever that means to you.
If Mac's father is listening and reading comments: Any being of love would want to celebrate and encourage love. Consider this when you react to things that are different than yourself. Do you react to Mac expressing her love with love or do you react with hate?
gender is a very personal thing and very sorry that people were pushing a label that you did not feel suits you. As a enby person I can see how people may have taken that video and assumed things as that is something many usually experience like me. But my advice is that its you who decides who you are! for me I use the term enby in a very expansive way as I often do find myself still relating to like being a black woman but I still experience a lot of dysphoria but that's not what made me feel like enby is the right label like I just knew I was enby. So in your case just because you have dysphoria does not mean you are trans or enby in my opinion. On a lighter note I just feel like my gender is being a lesbian tbh lmao.
Dysphoria is such a difficult topic. A lot of people associate exclusively with trans identity but I think it's beyond that in a lot of ways. There's so many ways straight people end up feeling dysphori about their own bodies and there's probably some kind of overlap over dysphoria and dysmorphia that can be hard to navigate for some folks
the way this podcast means sm to me aaaa i get so excited when wednesdays come around
guys you could invite fans to one of the pods for questions ,that would be really cool
Also thanks guys for creating something that i look forward to every week
this podcast means a lot to me
makes me believe and gives me hope and also allows me to think more openly
❤
I feel like hearing Mak has made me understand my body AND gender dysphoria is so much more validated. I was a child athlete, misgendered as a boy most of my upbringing, that has had gender affirming surgery to assist in my feeling more like the woman I am. I am a “cis-woman” that is predominantly straight- who often feels like “I miss out by not having a penis” I had my augmentation after my first born because I didn’t want to be flat. 🤷🏻♀️
My oldest is a transgender man. It has been SO VERY DIFFICULT to endure the pressure put on my child: where, I was able to grow into myself with time and come to who I feel I am.
Having a history with body dysmorphia with weight and athleticism- was always a part of the course.
I find gender perception is a biological warfare in today’s world.
Grateful for ya’ll’s candor and kindness as women.
Regardless of your sexual preference, being a woman is only ever known by women.
The trick, when the other person says something that tells you you've won, because e.g. they have nothing left to fall back on except "because reasons", is to point out that they did it and therefore you know you've won, and then walk away from the discussion no matter what they say. It's not as good as the other person conceding, but it's a very close second.
I love all of you. This podcast needed to be done so much. It really helps all of us!
What Ashley said about not trying to people please her audience resonated so much. I'm getting my MFA in scenic and production design for theatre & film and recently had a queer director tell me during a critique that I had potential but was still designing for straight audiences and my jaw DROPPED. I'd never even thought about that, and it's totally changed the way I navigate both work *and* life.
Yas ALAYNA!! The VULVA GALLERY does casting of different women. She makes it a complete experience.
Another great episode! I have yet to establish a social life in my first year of college, and this podcast really helps me feel less alone. It amazes me that you three made a podcast that made such a supportive community. ❤
You can double boil eggs as long as you had them in the fridge in between today and second boil and like do second boil within a few hours. The increased risk of Listeria is so minute, you wouldn't want to feed it to a baby but yeah. I know a lot about hard boiled eggs because they're yummy.
this episode in particular really helped me understand myself a little better, I'm so thankful for this show ❤
i can’t explain how thankful i am that mak talked about gender dysphoria and being cis it’s been so hard for me going through that because i don’t want to be a man but sometimes i hate my chest and sometimes i don’t thank you so much for explaining it and talking about it!!!!!!!
I wish i thought about and questioned my dysphoria this way. I would NOT have gotten top surgery if i had just had conversations about how i was thinking and feeling.
As a trans woman I can say these conversations about gender and gender dysphoria are more important now than ever in and out of the queer community. Thank you and I appreciate you acknowledged your not trans your experience is limited but also talking it out and opening the floor to those who can speak on it.
You can absolutely experience dysphoria without being trans. I think crux is about you wanting to express yourself /body in a way that is contrary to what society has made us think we must. I had extreme dysphoria growing up, questioned whether i wanted go be a boy, but the truth was that i simply needed to express my blend of masculinity and feminity in a way that represented me and felt safe. That blend changes. I even hated my breasts as a teenager, but having a partner love and accept me and my chest and body and the way i express it has completely alleviated any dysphoria. I think you 3 are spot on in saying our community has swung in into a space that is often counter productive to the fact that we just need to let people be, and change how they will, in gender expression and orientation.
As a trans woman, from my perspective you did everything right Mak. I am sorry people were projecting their insecurity onto you. I don't want to apologize for their actions but I would like to acknowledge that being trans can be really hard at times your entire perception of the world might be flipped on its head if you are new to queer culture. That being said it doesn't give anyone a excuse to tell another person what their experience is. Alana literally said it perfectly how hypocritical it would be of a trans person to question another queer person's experience. Side note I love your guys confidence in this video! It is so beautiful to see you living you best lives. I love this podcast so much and didn't realize how much I needed it today. Thank you guys 💖
Alayna I hope you don’t feel bad about your serious inputs. I love your contribution to the show and you add so much to the conversation and dynamic. You’re great. I love all of you! Especially you Ashley *wink*
Mak boiling her eggs sounds so witchy.
The way Mak describes her feelings on gender and gender dysphoria is SO incredibly relatable to me. Also Mak, you did absolutely nothing wrong and although people probably had good intentions, it still really sucks for them to declare that they know more than you do about your own identity. We should/can celebrate the experiences that trans & nonbinary people and gender non-conforming or dysphoric cis people share without forcing one identity or another onto people.
NO CUZ I WAS OUT WITH MY EX BOYFRIEND ONCE AND THE CLERK THOUGHT I WAS HIS LITTLE BROTHER 😭😭 he got SO awkward when i said i was his girlfriend
I don't think I will ever be able to articulate how the 3 of you have helped me be myself as a trans person, and just have fun with it too. Thank you
You guys put so many of my thoughts and experiences regarding sexuality and gender into words, and made a funny and entertaining episode while doing it! This is quickly becoming one of my favorite podcasts, thanks guys :')
These discussions about gender were really empowering, thank you for that !
“You’ve now participated in deevil worship because you did the wrong Xtianity” …… that hits home for me, my extended family is like that
Wow so much good convo in this ep, as always!!! I love this podcast so much. ♥️♥️♥️ yay feeling happy
i love this episode sm, hearing mak's journey with her gender expression and her dad(but my grandma and mom with me), it makes me feel seen I've watched it a couple times now bc some people say the aMe thing about me, that I'm trans and/or invalidate my experience and relationship with my gender thank u for talking about this
I loved this conversation today because one of the things that queer people struggle with today is a sense of perfectionism. Realistically, rationally, we need to just embrace and accept where people are now. Their experience is their experience, it doesn’t need to be anything else other than what it is.
Gender is so interesting. I came out as bi years ago and hoped that people wouldn't bug me about liking or wearing masculine things, how I walk, etc, and am recently understanding that fine line between what we perceive as gender vs sexuality expression, and that can exist without being trans or non binary
"Oh, nose is POWERFUL." 🤣
Funny. In wisconsin, during the winters, 40yrs ago... After a meal at Perkins, id put my jacket on for expedience. Get up to register and I'd hear, "So, how was everything, Sma'am?". Thats been funny since then. Any of you guys get Sma'am-ed. Lol
I learned this from my gf. Put eggs is pot with water. Once the water boils, clock 10 mins from then. Perfect hard boiled eggs everytime.
Ashley: Sydney, have you ever had tongue-cramping in bed?
My Computer: [immediately cuts to commercial]
I can completely relate to mak most of the times, and this is one. I have struggled (for a short period of time bcoz i move extremely fast in taking actions in my life) with presenting feminine and i felt extremely dysphoric with my long hair and dresses. But now that I present really masc people misgender me all the time. A few days back i saw a trans lady ( I don't live in the area which has trans folks in a non outcast scenario but i did) and she said to me i look like a guy. She wasn't coming from a bad place i could see that in her smile and she thought she was just validating for the way i looked but i can't do anything about it.
MY POINT IS I feel so dysphoric sometimes when people call me a boy especially when it is coming form a nice intention, with bad intent i like been called a boy bcoz ig ik they don't actually believe it.
Mak you gotta put the eggs in salted water, bring to a boil, take off the heat and pop a lid on and let them just sit for 15 minutes. As someone who is busy and forgetful this is perfect for me! Even if you forget them for longer than 15 min they’ll still be perfect 😊
I love the dynamics on this podcast!
Trans listener here. Cis people can absolutely experience gender dysphoria, but most don't have the awareness to recognize it as such, so it's actually really good to see it explicitly called that. I think even some trans people might not quite see how it would happen for cis people.
"When I stopped being a 'fun gay' and became all 'FUCK YOU! gay,' I became who I am today."
How to say you're a New Yorker without saying you're a New Yorker...