PLEASEE talk about Marilyn Monroe and how dirty she was done by literally everyone around her, she deserves justice even in death after they let the guy that literally sexually blackmailed her (Hugh Hefner) pay to have his own grave next to her because he was obsessed with her !!!
I was thinking the same. I used to believe she was overhyped but no, she was a talented actress ruined by typecasting and awful producers. She deserves recognition as a human being, not a sexual object.
Bodies like Marilyn’s are criticized for being too sexual, and bodies like Audrey’s are criticized for looking too boyish and not womanly enough. We can’t win.
When I watched Funny Face for the first time I found hilarious that everyone in the movie kept saying Audrey's character looks "funny" or "ugly" (before her makeover)... while she just looks like Audrey Hepburn... gorgeous as usual. I guess it is understandable considering what you said in the first part of your video, because Audrey had a bit of a tomboy look compared to other models... But still, it doesn't make much sense, ahah
id love to see you talk about some stars who arent as well known now who were important fashion icons at the time! loved this video makes me want to go watch her movies
I like the Cinderella allegory. I would take it further and suggest that, like Audrey the Dutch resistance spy/dancer turned star turned hands-on disaster relief worker, many of her characters are more rebellious survivors than carefree party girls. Ann flees the strict control of princess life to experience independence in a war ravaged Rome. Holly does sex work she doesn't always like so she and her disabled brother can have a better life. Eliza makes a risky arrangement with a cruel teacher in hopes of starting her own business. And Audrey does it all with love, grace, and style. When asked how she navigated the worlds of Hollywood and war, she said, “I don’t consider it two different worlds. It’s all my life.”
Loved the video, from what I remember I have only seen Audrey Hepburn in the movie Sabrina and I loved it, my mom and I would always watch black and white movies all the time when I was around 6-12. I wish that the talent shown in the films was more appreciated rather than their bodies.
It’s crazy to me how the ideal body constantly changes, constantly ostracizes a new group of women, and then gets changed again. Being a kid in early 2000’s i remember that there was no limit to how skinny you could be, the skinner the better. And that made so many women feel like they could never be beautiful. Now the standard is more a kardashian hourglass with a big butt and I see so many women feel left out of this too. It’s almost like setting and ideal body type standard makes no sense because you cannot change your body to keep up with trends like clothing
My grandma had a body like Audrey because she grew up in the recession and they didn’t have much food, much like Audrey. Could be that slight figure would have been more common because of the rationing and lack of food resources for a lot of the population after both wars 🤷🏻♀️
it's a carefully constructed and ~perceived authenticity only, though. audrey as she is in her films is not who she was in life for the most part and it's very interesting that audiences continue to conflate the two despite the fact that now more than ever we're very cognizant of the fact that celebrity is a construct. also the marilyn slander is OUTRAGEOUS!
It frustrates me so much that people pitted marilynn Monroe and Audrey Hepburn against each other! They were both so iconic, in a perfect world their differences would have been celebrated and not critiqued
@@ts8404 Not a surprise. A vile worm of a man, despite his talents. He tried to force himself on Tippi Hedren (actress for "Marnie" and "The Birds") multiple times and threatened her career prospects and mental stability when she resisted.
I think it's so interesting Mina highlighted Audrey Hepburn wasn't associated with children because her on-screen personas were childish//sexually infantilised, because on the flip side of that, Marilynn Monroe reportedly also adored children but wasn't associated with them because her on-screen personas were 'over-sexed' bombshells. It could be super interesting for Mina to further discuss how we view old-timey celebrities more as the characters they played and the mythos surrounding their lives than the actual people they were.
wow. cause it's totally not enough to be an awesome person, no, you always need to be better than other woman, definitely. (in case not clear: sarcasm uwu)
I'd definitely like a "Why is ___________ still relevant?" series where you focus on a different, well-known Old Hollywood actress: Marilyn Monroe, Elizabeth Taylor, Katharine Hepburn, Rita Hayworth - just to name a few.
I think it's also important to mention the radically different social backgrounds that Monroe and Hepburn came from. Marilyn came from a very humble American social background while Hepburn was the daughter of a diplomat, was well travelled, educated and had an impeccable British RP accent. It's no wonder that Monroe was condemned to play sexy dumb blondes to satisfy the male gaze while Hepburn was branded as more classy, elegant and refined.
The fact that she was the daughter of a diplomat may have something to do with how people saw her as upperclass, but I doubt it. Most people didn't know this fact about her since her father was a Nazi sympathizer and had left her and her mother, and she and her mother were left for starving during the war. She didn't feel comfortable talking about this abandonment till later in her life. Yes, it's true that she spoke many different languages but i wouldn't say this was due to privilege as you seem to want to point out. I assume yes she had gone to better schools than Marilyn, but most of her experiences in different countries was because she was trying to get away from Nazi rule with her mom
@@kurisucosmo7954 her relationship with her father is indeed complex and not something that is mentioned a lot tbh but I do maintain that coming from a place of lost privilege shaped her upbringing and her world view. When you are raised by a mother who has had access to culture, who travelled more than 99.99% of the rest of the population, who has evolved in high circles, it's almost inevitable that certain values, certain attitudes will be passed down to you. When you compare with Marilyn, whose father had completely disappeared from the picture and whose mother was unequipped to raise, it's night and day.
I hate how much hate Marilyn Monroe got, I feel like it's how we treated Meghan Fox. Even though neither women did anything wrong, and they were just victims of the men type casting them as sex symbols, it caused other women to hate them. Also side note, Janet sounded so salty lol
@@isabellesnow6008 Ok? That's not why most people didn't like her, and it doesn't justify the misogynistic treatment she received. JFK cheated on his wife, and no one lambasts him...
@@HoneyD109 idk if its internalized misogyny so much as misdirected anger. They should have been pissed at the directors and film industry and all of the patriarchal society that portrayed women as sex objects. Not the actress who is forced into a role. If anything it was their anger at the patriarchy that caused them to lash out at Marilyn. She was the embodiment of a sex object that men wanted all women to be and used her to enforce a role. They were tired of being seen as objects. So with that in mind, I don’t see how that fits internalized misogyny.
It's honestly so sad the toxic femininity. Viewing curvy women as hypersexual when they might not be at all, and skinnier women as 'nice' and not sexual at all.
Curvy is about shape not size. Audrey had a 14 inch difference between her waist and hips, vastly curvier than most women including Marilyn. We need to stop using curvy as a euphemism and use it for it's literal meaning.
@@balthasardenner5216 Audrey had a 14 inch difference? I don't believe that sorry. Where's the proof? That would make her waist like 20 inches? And it would have been obvious if she had that much of an hourglass figure.
@@melliexcx She did have a 20 inch waist. She typically didn't wear clothes showing off her figure, but there are outfits in My Fair Lady and Sabrina where you can see her figure. There are also some publicity shots for Sabrina where she is wearing a very simple all-black outfit and her figure is very apparent.
It's funny how old the standard of classy or later nerdy girl next door vs. sexy dumb blonde trope is. Society loves to pit women against each other, like you have to be one or the other.
@az_koala that was for the sake of a woman in a movie, and the reasons for why they didn’t like each other exceeded past their gender. And that had nothing to do with the fact that they were men. Society putting women against each other is a women’s issue. And seen a lot more in media and in real life.
exactly, and it's still used in todays society, notice how marilyn-ish look always associated with a "bad woman who tried to steal your man" and audrey-ish associated with a "unique female lead unlike others that made a man fall in love bc she was the first who treated him differently" ugh that's suck
honestly, I wish Audrey Hepburn was more famous for what she actually did, like her work with UNICEF rather than her aesthetics and women being jealous of other Hollywood stars
@@luiysia technically she was active as a humanitarian for much longer than her acting career (starting with postwar funds and eventually becoming a UNICEF ambassador) and she took like a 10 year break around the seventies to focus on her family. But yes, her films and style were obviously a lot more publicized than her humanitarian work so that’s what she’s most known for today
@@luiysia well yeah but, as the video mentioned, there were a lot of Hollywood stars but there are very little of those who are remembered. Additionally, a lot of people know they her without ever seeing her act anyway so it's not exactly her acting abilities that are generally admired when people talk about her, kind of same as with the other actresses from the Hollywood golden age
Same, honestly I really want people to publicise the private achievements of old hollywood. Audrey was a humanitarian and Marilyn is a very intelligent woman and even had her own production company and she was a staunch supporter of the civil rights movement and her friendship with Ella fitzgerald is one of my favourite stories about old hollywood
Isn't it just so upsetting how everybody back then used to compare Audrey and Marilyn, 2 talented, smart, amazing women, arbitrarily giving them a personality according to their body type? It's sick how a petite body is associated to modesty and an hourglass figure is perceived as vulgar. I mean as for clothes, they both wore what was on trend and fitted them best, which is amazing! Also they were both in an industry dominated by men and had to face it. It's terrible that one wasn't given the support of other women.
Yes, the fact that they both could act the same,have the same “scandals”, and dress alike, and still audrey would be the classy one but not sexy bc the guy’s wouldn’t want someone as boyish (at least outside pf Hollywood) and Marilyn would be seen as the sexy blonde that’s only there to be eye candy and can only be appreciated not even for her looks as a whole but as a sexy object that takes into account only her body is sickening. Even more that it still happens today, it doesn’t matter how you act, the way you look will always impact the way society see’s you as a women more, and if your personality does not “match” that expectation you’re in for a LOT of stress.
@@rainnchen9632 but can’t petite also be referring to a small bone structure/frame, which she had ?? There’s plenty of skinny people who are not also petite bc they’re bone structure is average-sized
it's all relative.. we still, in the developed world, have more money/wealth than most people who have lived on earth have ever seen in their lifetime.
@@laurenbi that’s 100% true but we also have to pay much more money then those ppl. thus in terms of money gained vs. money needing to be spent id say it’s similar.
I feel like something that Marilyn and Audrey both have in common is how detached their genuine personalities and accomplishments have become from the nigh mythical celebrity worship that exists around their imagery. That alone could make for an interesting video, but I hope you'll do something in-depth for Marilyn too! She was an incredible woman under a huge amount of pressure and I feel like her early death gets romanticized a lot more than any real critical examination of what led up to it.
I think a lot of the distaste older generations had for Marilyn might be from lack of knowledge, at the time, of who she really was. I imagine if you only knew Marilyn’s films and what tabloids said about her (and add in some of the time sexism), it’s easy to see how people would think of her as “tarty”. The same thing happened to Britney Spears. People love the sexualized villain.
I feel so bad for Britney as well. She was a great singer (you can watch one of her first performances as a young girl in RUclips). And she was forced to sing with those stupid se*ual gasps and groaning sounds.
It's not the way she was spoken about. It was the fact that she presented herself more sexually than what was socially acceptable at the time. Marilyn went against what was considered classy at the time, and did everything that was considered indecent at the time. Even in 2020, a woman that portrays herself more sexual ly than what is considered socially acceptable is villainized. Think about how the Kardashians are hated for being "slutty" and "indecent" by today's standards.
I feel like really any woman, famous or not, could experience something like this, even today. Like my mom has a witty, funny personality and women would say really mean things to her or about her without really knowing her spirit. Or I saw as a child how relatives treated her, we have now completely cut ties with extended family... I think it is because she's very intelligent, funny, and beautiful, and most importantly a GOOD person. Some people just can't handle that and will villanize. My mom experienced a lot of abuse too and they told her they didn't believe her or say that she was lying. Women sexualized for simply existing, beaten down for having a strong personality ... Or to my dad, other men would say things like "you're no Kennedy" because he is very personable and outgoing and married to my mom lol. And it's a cringey comment because he wasn't trying to be anything but himself.
Same, I didn’t know about how involved she was with unicef until I did a speech on her and I was like woahhhh! She really was a beautiful person inside and out
@@marikkelaszlo3355 She always looked great, she was gorgeous and remained an icon, but her humanitarian work since her youth goes to show she was truly a beautiful soul
I love Audrey Hepburn but does it bother anyone else how we always seem to always infantalize and desexualize flat/petite women? They way they often described her as 'adolescent' and 'androgynous' makes it feel like smaller women can't be sexy.
Yep, there’s no one ideal of a women body and the ideal changes all the time. All women bodies are feminine. Have it ever occurred to men that women have different body shapes
In the media in the US, Jane Birkin is (unfortunately) better known for inspiring a bag, instead of being known for "Je T'aime, Moi Non Plus" and for how good she looks while braless in a sheer t-shirt.
@@elenik845 honestly I don’t think people see models as sexy I think they’re just seen as good for displaying clothes. Like idk whenever someone tells me I could model all I hear is ‘you’d make a good clothing hanger for the public’. Like, we still get desexualized in everyday life.
In a way I "understand" Brigitte's xenophibia, however I do not justify it. Why, because she was the greatest female icon of France in the 60s, and she was part of an entire cultural, artistic, stylistic movement, etc., quite European, and that today we see a lot with fascination. Therefore, the fact that Eropa is now "Islamizing", it is "understandable" that she feels rejection towards it.
@@jzz6342 Agreed to an extent. She revolts mainly against the way that animals are traditionally treated in Muslim countries, and also the modesty and sexual purity preached by Islam which can be seen as regressive and unfair - aka the opposite of what Bardot was known for. Idk. I don't agree with her and I do think she goes about it the wrong way, but what am I gonna do? Tell an 80-something-year-old woman that she's old fashioned?
it’s funny because i love audrey hepburn bc of her humanitarianism AND her fashion. growing up and having an early puberty made her physique unattainable for me, but i never really wanted to be built like her. i wanted to find a way to be graceful while also being a bigger black girl bc i never found proper representation of that growing up. she was a gorgeous woman and definitely an inspiration for many. it’s just funny seeing how different backgrounds will change how people view things.
It’s absolutely hilarious to me that Audrey was not seen as an “hourglass” curvy woman while her measurements are still well within the hourglass silhouette (waist being around 10+ inches smaller than bust/hips. Like holy crap I have the same bust and hip but I have no waist, I’m just a straight body line all the way down. Edit: I don’t mean for this comment to come off as though I have low self esteem about my body. I mean I do have my insecurities, as everybody does, but this was just meant as an observation that amuses me.
There’s actually a thing called Kibbe’s body types, where there are several figures and appeareances included based on your bone and musclestructure, if I remember correctly. For example, you might have the same measurements as Marilyn Monroe, but because you have a different frame, you will not look like her. Same thing for Audrey. I recommend you to watch Aly Art for more on this topic. She discusses absolutely everything about the body types, not just from the frame and clothing perspective, it goes even to hair styles and other things. She even has a test for yourself. You should really look upon that, it gives you a perspective on your type and you learn how to embrace differences from other body types.
You mentioned in your IG story that you wearing a turtleneck was gonna be relevant to the topic of the video and I knew it was gonna have something to do with Audrey Hepburn
Once I tweeted something about her being racist and I immediately had a French person angrily defending her in my mentions saying that she's an animal rights activist (literally "I can excuse racism but I draw the line at animal cruelty" vibes) and in France they have free speech so she can say what she wants.......okay and I'm using my free speech to call her a racist lol
As an abnormally skinny girl, Audrey gave me my self esteem back when I was younger. As I grew and learned how sweet she was and the things she did with UNICEF, it impacted me so much. I believe that my decision to become a teacher is related to that. Thanks, Mina. It made me remember why I admire her so.
@@SoWhosGae I know, poor Audrey, I was not trying yo romanticize it, I have an endocrine condition that make putting up any weight quite hard. Seeing her, gorgeous and almost as skinny as me made me feel more human.
@@marialuisasvabvalerio7177 I didn't mean to make you feel guilty either. I don't have a condition, but I felt represented by her too because I can't never put weight either. Always been super skinny and for a while I was risking an ED because of trying to gain weight. My body suffered from that, not to mention psychologically (ppl assuming only pedos could be attracted to a body like mine) but now I'm at peace with myself and my body and I hope the same for you.
@@SoWhosGae I loved her ironically because my mother shared exactly the same experiences during the war, and died the same year, same age, also of cancer. So I never thought of her iconic image as much as a silver ghost of someone I deeply loved.
What's ironic is that Breakfast At Tiffany's was originally written with Marilyn in mind, and Truman Capote (the author of the book) got mad when Audrey was casted because she was the opposite of what he had imagined. Imagining Marilyn as Holly Golightly feels so weird
in the novel holly was way more sexual and clearly a prostitute, while the movie just hints at it. so i kinda hate that he wanted marilyn to play her bc she already was so sexualized and, according to the public, promiscuos 😔
@@nostradamus1162 he actually wanted her to play holly bc holly was meant to use her as status as a sex worker to be more effective and complex to her characteristics and storyline it was meant to humanize and understand women who are oversexualized in the world. I think it was smart knowing that Marilyn wanted to play characters that were more complex and challenging
T.C. said in his book that Holly was "stylishly thin". And there are comments in that book that other people mention about Holly's thin image. So it is a subject to ponder how he thought M.M. could play her.???
Guys you seem to forget but though she was curvy Marilyn was tiny, her waist was 24 inches. She was small but curvy and undergarments of the time emphasized that, a size 10 in the 1960s is like a modern size 4. So her casting wouldn't be too off the book, and she was who the author imagined for the role.
I do understand the whole "Marilyn was made for men" tbh, even if I don't agree with it. It makes sense that watching a woman be so sexualized and objectified on screen (something even marilyn herself didn't like, she was only given sexual roles even tho she had the range for other stuff too) would make the female viewers uncomfortable, even if they used internalized sexism to express it. Audrey was less male gaze-y and more like a girl (and thus more relatable to teenage girls than male cinema goers)
@kkaradin no, definitely not. A size 14 then is the same as a pattern size 14 now... which is closer to an American 4 or 6. She was curvy, but very slim. People see “size 14” and think it’s equivalent to a 14 now, but that’s very much not the case.
@kkaradin as others have pointed out she wasn't plus size just soft looking. Also a lot of her pictures people use when saying she is plus size are from when she was pregnant
That is so weird though, I just think Marilyn and Brigitte were beautifully, unapologetically female - they also had that femme fatale element, being able to influence all the men around them, there was definitely a lot of power in that - I'm 18 now and I've been admiring them since I was a little girl, I was mesmerised by that powerful, impactful side of them, they were only really 'objectified' if you couldn't see anything past their physique, which admittedly was probably a case for the male viewers, but female viewers don't have to be uncomfortable seeing more risque female characters, they can give them the courage to be themselves and recognise the power at the core of femininity
@@doelette7400 yes but where you are wrong is that those characters where both written and directed by men. They weren't written to be empowering to women or so women could relate to them but so men could find them appealing. They were also objectified by the men in their lives, Marilyn especially. She was missable with how the public saw her as nothing but a sex symbol and not as a real person. She never got the chance to play the roles other less "sexy" actresses did despite her having the talent and range, she was just cast to be pretty and she had to run away from the media 24/7. I love her style and her as a person (she was a big supporter on civil rights for example) but her life is still more tragic than sexy and fun
Hepburn was one of the first people outside of the Frank family to read Anne Frank's diary, because in the postwar Netherlands she lived in an apartment building with one of the publishing house employees and he leant her the manuscript, thinking she'd connect to it. Which she did, and it became a bit of a lifelong point of identification for her; Otto Frank actually asked her to play Anne in the 1959 film version, which she declined both because she felt she was too old and because of the psychological trauma of the war years that she didn't want to relive.
The drama with Marilyn and how she was percibe as "The enemy" reminds me to the drama with Megan Fox. Two talented womans hated because of the men view they were put into
neither of them are talented and they both got famous because of the way they look, if they didn't like it then they should have stopped being in films
While growing up in the 00’s and seeing all these skinny models that I didn’t look like, Marilyn Monroe was the icon that helped me to love my body and think that it’s beautiful. So for me Audrey was just another beautiful, marvelous, unattainable ideal.
I see Audrey the same way even now. For some reason I favour thinner figures even though the current "trend" is to be curvaceous. The fact that I'm very short and thin but still somewhat curvy is the reason I can identify with Marilyn more in that sense. Anyway I went on a tangent, but basically everyone finds different things they can relate to.
Same here. In the majority of countries the beauty standard is very skinny and tall, so a woman like Audrey is basically a goddness. And Marilyn Monroe is still the most beautiful American actress for me
The weird thing is that how people say that Holly from Breakfast at Tiffany's is how much of an Audrey character when the role was actually written for Marilyn particiularly.
Yes. I read the short story by Truman Capote that the film is based on. Holly Golightly is a call girl. Capote thought Marilyn would be perfect for the part. He definitely envisioned a more sexualized curvy woman when he created the character. But I think Audrey's wholesome image helped get the story past the censors. A lot of people who love that film don't notice that it's about a friendship between 2 people who support themselves by being sex workers.
And Paul was actually gay in the book! Holly was a very liberated woman and both characters had strong platonic feelings for each other instead of romantic
Sadly I haven’t read the book yet, but yes, this is what I keep thinking about: how was she, such an innocent seeming young woman, to portrait a call girl? 😂 But I still love the movie, maybe it’s not accurate to the book, but her character, I believe, gives the story an interesting spin as well: she seems desperate, doesn’t really have anybody who loves her except for her brother and only tries saving up in order to build a life for the two of them. To be honest the first time watching the movie I kind of disliked Paul though , as he got paid for sleeping with this woman, but then realised that Holly wasn’t much different. On the other hand, when again looking at how innocent and “unexperienced” Audrey’s characters seem, I was shocked almost when for the first time I watched charade where Regina was trying so hard to get Peter’s attention 😂 but anyway, I simply love all her movies and that you can tell that all the girls she portraits are different to each other, but still have her spirit in a way. She just makes my day whenever I watch a film she stares in (and actually my wallpaper (in my room, not on my phone) has her silhouettes and face printed all over it, that’s how far the adoration goes 😂)
@@ideasdivertidas164 Yes. Paul is gay in the book. Paul is sort of a stand-in for the writer, Truman Capote. There is no doubt that Capote was gay. Capote knew women like this when he was young. Find the short story (or novella) and read it. Capote could tell a good story.
I think another thing was that she was the perfect combination of relatable but not relatable. Like relatable enough that u can see yourself in her but not too relatable that you don’t idolise her. A similar idea is used in tv shows with young female protagonists where their lives are similar to yours but just that bit more interesting. Even many YT vloggers fit into this trope.
Part of what makes her so relevant today is the simplicity and timelessness of her style, coupled with her incredible charm. People seem to fall in love with her instantly just by watching her on screen. I'd love to see you do Katherine Hepburn next!
I was obsessed with Audrey when I was a teen, for all the reasons you listed. She had all the charm and glamor without the heavy male gaze. And as a young Asian girl, I liked seeing slender dark haired, dark eyed women being elevated and not exoticized or hyper-sexualized. And even though she wasn't a POC role model, her humanitarian legacy in a way "made up" for that (at least in my 16yo head). She showed me how to gracefully carry oneself professionally and personally with kindness. And I aspire to that even to this day.
Just a note: she was very privileged growing up, her mother was a baroness, however her father was a Nazi sympathiser and left them early which traumatised Audrey. Paired with her strict ballet education which gave her a graceful demeanour, it explains her upper class aura. A lot of people are also not aware that she spoke several languages fluently (Dutch, English, Italian, Spanish, French) which is very impressive. She had life experience, knowledge and grace that were absent from the usual glamourous Hollywood actresses.
while she was a young teenager in the Netherlands, she worked for the Dutch Resistance and put on small ballet shows to raise money against the Nazis! she also worked as a volunteer nurse until she was 16
I'm not 100% sure but wasn't she very very underweight growing up since because of the war they didn't have much food?? I wouldn't call that privilege. (tbh i just read that somewhere idk if it's true or not)
I wish people would stop pitting Marilyn and Audrey against each other, especially for their looks. Sure, they were both fashion icons in their own ways, but both also did incredible philanthropic work and we should highlight that more! Great video as always lovely x
It’s so weird to think that Audrey gained her popularity because she was more relatable than Marilyn but the majority of girls I’ve met today feel like they relate a lot to Marilyn.
I think it’s the whole concept of “doing yourself up” and transforming from a normal looking woman to a glamorous beauty. I think that’s what makes her more relatable. If you look at pictures of Marilyn without makeup, while pretty, she looks completely different without all the makeup, clothes and hair. At the end of the day she was quite average compared to other movies stars at the time like Grace Kelly, Elizabeth Taylor, etc. But her style, the way she dressed up and not to mention, her personal life story made her all the more memorable and relatable.
@apenstaartje anna You didn't ask me, but I wanted to chime in because I'm getting more attached to Marilyn the older I get (I just turned 24). The more I learn about Marilyn, I see that there were literally obstacles placed in her way every turn she took, and she was expected to take it all on the chin because heaven forbid a woman complains. She was expected to be beautiful and sensual, but in fulfilling those qualities she was denied agency and personhood and was reduced to an object of fantasy by the men and women around her. Everything she became was from taking criticism and slander from others since she was a child and working herself to the bone to get rid of her "flaws." (She has a singing coach she loved who insulted her naturally high pitched voice, saying she sounded dumb. That's why she began to sang in that lower voice.) She was beautiful and should've had it all, but being desired didn't equal being loved and it seemed like no man could dig deep to find and love Norma Jean. Admiration didn't equal genuine human compassion and empathy and she was genuinely miserable. I'm definitely no Marilyn Monroe, but I think I can understand the isolation in being a woman, and maintaining an image forced on me. ((Hope this didn't sound like a rant! I have a lot of feelings lol))
@@dreamsicle3113 This is honestly so true, I'm 23 going on 24 and the older I get, the more I understand and relate to her. She was a woman who just wanted to be a woman. But when I was younger I actually looked up to her bc she wasn't very skinny, and at that time growing up, heroin chic was trendy and I developed an eating disorder bc of it. Marilyn just had a more full and realistic body type for me personally, but to each their own. This is why we shouldn't pit women against each other, bc we ARE NOT each other's competition. But yeah at the time, her weight made me feel better about mine.
This was so interesting to me because I came to Audrey much later. Sophia Loren and Elizabeth Taylor were my introductions to old holywood, but I was so interested in them for the same reasons that you talk about people gravitating towards Audrey (other than her amazing talents as an actor, Wait Until Dark was a triumph) - they represented a type of beauty that was different from what was around that I felt closer to. Hitting puberty hard and fast in the mid 2000's and simultaneously feeling really gross about how grown men would sexualize me (being a DD at 10 is NOT fun) and locked out of fashion/beauty of the time (constantly felt frumpy in the very straight cuts of shirts, low rise jeans made me feel like my butt was about to pop out at any minute). So the fact that these ladies were curvy and beautiful and (to me at the time) in charge of themselves was amazing. Such a great exercise to see how others felt the same way that I did, but a bit in reverse. "Accessible" is really all in your perspective huh?
I completely understand!!! I had a DD by age 11. Kate Moss was our queen at the time. And I love her, but I didn't look.like her, and people called me a "slut" for it, as if just existing in my pubescent body was.some.sort of scandal. Its hard to live in a world that hates women 😔
In my opinion Audrey Hepburn also got another surge of popularity in the early '00 because her body type, unlike other hollywood stars aka Marilyn Monroe, fit the beauty standards at the time.
I remember as a young girl being absolutely infatuated with Marilyn Monroe and stumbling across an article that was along the lines of 'Marilyn vs. Audrey', not dissimilar to the article you cited. I read it found that legions of Audrey Hepburn fans had commented about how they HATED MM, couldn't stand how 'slutty' she was, that Audrey was far 'classier' and an all-round better person. I couldn't believe what I was reading - I'd never considered that there needed to be such a drastic rivalry, between two beautiful, talented women. It left me with a sour taste in my mouth towards Audrey Hepburn for years after as it regrettably made me view her as the 'not like other girls' icon... almost a decade on and I love and admire both, but I'll never forget the anger in those comments towards a woman who was really done dirty by the Hollywood machine, and was just as wonderful and talented.
@@teegee7445 you've commented several times on this video about how neither of these women were talented and only got where they were because of their looks. you sound very bitter and it's very embarrassing that you'd waste your time being so negative on the internet. i hope you find peace!
@@NeshaCora I hope you understand that by lifting up these untalented women because of their looks you are perpetuating a value system within society that means looks are more important than anything else. I'm bothered because you're the same girls that are always complaining about how society forces you to look good. Stop hyping up untalented hot people and pretty soon to be a famous girl you'll need talent rather than looks.
@@teegee7445 for the record I’ve never once complained about how ‘society forces me to look good’; I do look good and I know it. you raise an interesting point though and I don’t entirely disagree with you - beautiful people shouldn’t become famous for being beautiful and I do think we see that all too often in society. the part we will have to agree to disagree on is whether or not MM and Hepburn were talented or not, but aside from that, I don’t think your point is invalid at all, so thank you for taking the time to explain it a little better!
@@NeshaCora The point is they weren't talented, so girls that obsess over appearance nowadays only know them and maybe James Dean or Marlon Brando opposed to Gregory Peck or Henry Fonda, both superior actors (with maybe the exception of Brando, he could act and was good looking). Girls that aren't really interested in film watch these 60/70 year old films purely based on how attractive the actresses in them are. This has never been more prevalent, take any female actor, celebrity nowadays, they're all hot and not that good at their craft. Whereas actually talented unattractive people like Frances McDormand go unnoticed. Boys are not like this at all, we make people famous for how good they are at what they do, like Kendrick Lamar, Kanye West, Kobe Bryant, all pretty average looking dudes that are extremely talented, girls don't like them for the most part. I'm not talking you particularly, there's just an entire generation of girls talking about body dysmorphia, societal standards of beauty and misogyny about how they need to look good but these expectations are put on them by themselves because they make beauty the most important thing in life, right from when a baby's born all they can say is how attractive or cute it is, it's weird and needs to stop. The fact you've seen hepburn's films and not Welles' is just proof of this. It's what holds women back, why do very few women have critical acclaim in any field? Because there's no market for it.
Sometimes I feel like the the perception we have of Audreys persona is something that influenced the Manic Pixie Dream Girl That's not to say that she herself was any sort of predecessor to Manic Pixies... but like the quirky, youthful, care free even tho shes classy, "nOt LiKe ThE oThEr GiRLs [of hollywood]" image that the media made of her most definitely was
I think the main difference is she's usually the main character and not used for the male characters development and had some depth at least more than a manic pixie dream girl gets. But I do think she has very similar vibes.
@@Sailorofskies yeah, for sure That's why I said she was like an in fluance on and a predecessor to And its not even so much that he characters were either It's like just the way the media painted her... ya know? Like her characters that she played definitely werent manic mixies... but the image that the media painted of her, which was influenced by her characters, definitely was closer to a manic pixie
@@emmakayisnotok7322 yeah I completely agree she's been painted in a way that's really similar to a manic pixie! I wonder if it could've inspired the trope.
her kookiness was a big part of her persona i think, a real proto-Zooey Deschanel come-do-something-silly-in-public-with-me-won't-you routine everyone should see her "appearance" on Sky Art's Psychobitches lol: "DABLe DENNIs"
@@madisonj5136 I’ve been reading some comments and I’ve seen you talk about how Marilyn was mistreated so I think your confused? I’m just reiterating what was said in the video, not saying Mina was slandering Marilyn. She clearly said she was done with the slander Marilyn gets.
Yesssss calling out that internalised misogyny in the hatred of Marilyn Monroe or Jane Mansfield!! I adore Audrey but the idea that she’s more “classy” and a “better role model” maybe because she didn’t wear a lot of makeup or have a curvy shape is soo misogynistic. I never even thought about this!! SUCH a great video!❤️
Audrey had a 14 inch difference between her waist and hips, how on earth is that not curvy? How many women do you know that have that big if a difference between waist and hips? Marilyn Monroe didn't. Curvy is about SHAPE not size or weight. Very thin women can be super curvy and bigger women can be not curvy.
Marilyn did NOT deserve the hate she got. Marilyn and Audrey are both *Iconic Queens* so ppl who would and are dragging them can choke on their beverage.
Perhaps that is why we appreciate Marilyn Manroe now, because she is nothing like the women we see on screen. Whereas now Audrey is the beauty standard for women, the cute quirky girl that every main character seems to portray, and because of the sexism women show towards other women now the sexy curvy “male approved” women was thrown out the door. Because in Hollywood women cannot be more than one facet of themselves. Either classy or sexy, sweet or bitchy, blonde = popular and brunette = smart.
THANK YOU for this video!! I feel as though people only remember Audrey as a beauty icon- which she was, no doubt- but she was so much more than that: a child of WWII, fought against the war effort in an underground dance fund, a humanitarian and global ambassador for UNICEF, a loving mother... the list goes on. I admire her greatly.
Am I the only one laughing at how people thought Audrey's looks were relatable I personally ain't never seen someone as distinctly beautiful like audrey
I mean, I agree in the technical sense. But it's also a bit insulting to her memory to put her in that category - since Audrey herself never positioned herself in opposition to other women and was generally a very lovely person throughout her life. Blame the media for pitting women against each other.
The media marketed her as that. In a time of curvy bodies and long blonde wavy hair, she was indeed different but I don't think that even for a second she took pride in not being like them. Audrey was so humble she didn't even think she was that much of a beauty to begin with. Don't do my girl dirty like that.
i don't think Audrey actually viewed herself that way, but based on Mina's analysis, a lot of her fans had that mentality because of the media. it was a simple joke I was trying to convey in the most succinct way
I wish people talked more about how Audrey experienced starvation during the war and that she’s partially underdeveloped and that’s why her body is shaped like that. Also she was a dancer first but she stopped because she was so weak from being malnourished.
I know this is like way back then but it still rubs me the wrong way to know people put Hepburn on a pedestal as a modestly dressed, natural-faced, non-curvacious woman in a way that says "all women should be like this and not some busty, caked bimbo". Like yeah, she was definitely great to see on screens when a lot of women in film have been objectified and hollywood pursued the same sexualized body type, but damn don't blame the women. Also, Hepburn is like super attractive even without a lot of makeup and it kind of feels like men's unrealistic expectation for a "modest" girl who's also effortlessly beautiful and thin...
"Why is Audrey Hepburn still relevant?" to answer that question: Audrey Hepburn made a movement and that is why she is still a role model to many because of the impact it made through history. Both Marilyn and Audrey are iconic! :)
Completely get what you’re saying and fully agree that body shape and anti-Marilyn sexism will’ve added to Audrey’s appeal but let’s not act like she’s such an icon today just because she wasn’t Marilyn! Audrey’s personality, class and compassion for the world is what made her such a timeless star 🌟
Ayo, for a curvy lady, the Marilyn Monroe look is much more attainable than the Audrey Hepburn look. Just a reminder that there are a lot of different natural body types. The same reaction happened in the early 2000s when the beauty ideal shifts from Kate Moss/Paris Hilton to JLO/Kim Kardashian, many women felt great relief that having a fat ass wasn't derided. In general, it's always best if there are visible representations of all kinds of bodies in media. Bodies of all kinds should be considered beautiful, powerful, and capable and not pitted against each other.
This reminds me of the ol' "do these jeans make my butt look big?" joke in sitcoms and how back then the appropriate answer for the husband/friend/whatever to say was "uh of course not!". Oh how the tables have turned lol
Audrey was actually curvier than Marilyn. Audrey had a 14 inch difference between her waist and hips, Marilyn had a 12 inch difference. Audrey rarely wore clothes that showed it off however. It's important to remember curvy means shape NOT size.
It's all because of the media. Marylin's body type was "THE STANDARD" for an entire era, then it was Audrey, then remember the 90's supermodel era? with Naomi Campbell, Cindy Crawford, that were super tall and curvy. Then Kate Moss type of body was "the trend". It's all about the media and what they sell. The problem is when you're younger and let yourself be intimidated and affected by that sh*t. I was half of my teenage years trying to diet, comparing myself (negatively) with my classmates, who were petite and skinny. I was 10cm taller, of course, I would weigh more than them! But that was not on my mind at that time, my friends looked like the girls on the tv and magazines and I didn't. Now I'm 34 and I'm happy with myself, but a lot of young girls (and boys) are being manipulated by the media everyday.
i remember trying to watch breakfast at tiffany's with my mom and in the first 5 minutes this white guy was pretending to be asian and speaking in an insanely racist way, we both stopped right away. i could never get into Audrey hepburn after that lmao
@@sara-mm9pb i know, i have nothing against her. she was beautiful, talented, smart, and used her influence for good things. i just think it's the reverence and romanticization that's held for older movies with such disgustingly racist and sexist themes that doesn't sit right with me.
Oof, yeah. For my film class we watched Breakfast at Tiffany’s and my professor (old white dude) said “there’s going to be some racist stuff, just ignore it and remember it was normal back then, so try not to get offended!” So I wrote my end of term paper about the harmful effects of blackface and yellowface in cinema.
Cultural contexts aside--Audrey both onscreen and off has a charisma, beauty, and sincerity that combine in an unbearably endearing way. Like other megastars (Prince, Meryl Streep, and Freddie Mercury are quick examples), she possesses an indefinable quality that makes you desperate to watch her. It's as if we sense that there is no one else like her, and there never will be--which makes watching her "live" onscreen all the more transporting. I admire Marilyn Monroe, and I also think it's a fact that she doesn't have the same kind of charm.
Totally agree. Some people just have that unique sublime attraction. Audrey was both accessible, relatable and fun yet incredibly feminine, elegant and worldly. There has never been anyone like this even today.
The script for Breakfast at Tiffany’s was written to star Marylin Monroe, and the director said Audrey was a terrible recast that ruined the film. But little did he know she made the role incredibly relatable for decades of women.
i always think it’s funny that most people today would consider marilyn as a symbol for plus size or thicker bodies when she was in real life probably as tiny as audrey, she just had those great proportions. great video as usual and i did not expect audrey when you posted the turtleneck on your instagram 😅
Especially considering she was speculated to be around 118-140 pounds within her adult life. She was curvy but I found it odd that people are considering her “plus size”.
As a lady that loves other ladies, Audrey's smile just makes me weak... and knowing she had such a compassionate heart makes her all the more beautiful! A video on Marilyn Monroe would be wonderful, not enough people appreciate her smarts and strong personality enough... also, may I also throw here a suggestion for a video on Grace Kelly? I've grown up watching my mom's Alfred Hitchcock movies on VHS and I've always loved her!
My hero Miss Audrey Hepburn, oh how much I love her so much I wish I could've meet her she was not only pretty she was also a good personality woman and well mannered. I love her so much with my heart
Audrey Hepburn is such a role model to me, seriously she had confidence and her work towards UNICEF was so amazing the fact some people skip over this part of who she was really does sadden me.
The fear I felt going into this because Audrey is my absolute favorite actress but you actually said everything I would have said (especially about Brigitte Bardot 😒)
Huh, thats funny about girls and women relating more to audrey hepburn and finding her more sympathetic than marilyn - i do understand, marilyns hyperfemininity and saccharine sex appeal was a gratuitous manufactured caricature and that is alienating, but my own feelings about it go the other way entirely. as filtered through the lens of the passage of time, and all that's happened wrt to a definite cultural shift towards the "audrey" type of glamour in high fashion etc - skinny, effortless, elegant, composed without appearing to try at all - i personally find the aubrey archetype much more alienating if im honest. maybe because ive never been thin, classy, or graceful, or bc marilyn has since become a (veeeery romanticised) icon of mental health issues and addiction in women (which itself is complex and ??kinda problematic), but the equally idealistic and fictional image of "aubrey" type beauty seems much more unattainable to me, specifically BECAUSE it falsely claims to be entirely "authentic" and not contrived. also yeah, marilyn was "tarty", so what? i connect with the risque jokes and being seen as promiscuous way more than wanting to be sensible as per what internalised sexism tells us is more commendable. struggling with an obviously-performed femininity speaks to me more than competently pulling it off while barely breaking a sweat. both of them are obvs iconic and talented af and its stupid to pit archetypes of women against each other but. yeah. its just interesting how culture has been shaped by all this.
Yes, ultra skinny, regal, always effortlessly poised, charming, elegant and graceful Audrey is obviously much more unattainable than insecure, vulnerable, hurting, lonely, belly pooch having Marilyn. It’s crazy that people try to frame it the other way around. Audrey was the equivalent of the modern instagram ideal. Marilyn was messy and human and didn’t have it all together.
Tbh as a thin brunnette I could never see myself as Marilyn. To me she is an unattainable ideal while Audrey I can relate to at least in how she looks, and putting more emphasis on elegance. But it's in the perspective of a person what they find relateable.
@@lewienew i love this so much, and ugh i love her. yep there is absolutely a level of metacommentary there present in her persona, and the idea that she was anyhting other than completely aware of it is so weird. what a fascinating person
Marion! In addition to being beautiful, she was a great comic actress. The RUclips channel Be Kind Rewind actually turned me on to her comic performances pretty recently, and her level of talent was eye-opening!
The one thing I still don't really get, as someone who just started getting into old cinema, is why was Breakfast at Tiffany's is the one movie of hers that stuck out the most pop culture wise. The story is fine (it's definetly not a bad movie!) but idk why it gets the upper hand on others like How to Steal a Million and Charade that have great and fun plots and equally (if not better) outfits
I would love to hear your opinion on the book “how to be a Hepburn in a Hilton world” it’s very short and I read it when I was about 17 when I thought Audrey was the pinnacle of class without knowing a thing about her or that time period. I think it would be a good tie in to talking about how we view Hepburn, women in Hollywood, and the perceived decline of societal and cultural values as we entered the new millennial
I actually came across this book in the library a few weeks ago. Thought the title was interesting, but when I started reading it the language and implications just really put me off. Not that it's impossible to get good ideas out of it (the sections on friendship and style were interesting) but the language around emphasizing not being like those "dumb, stupid girls who get drunk in public" and the advice that nobody should ever sleep on the first date and men should always pursue the women and its the woman's role to act cool and dress conservatively was really uncomfortable to read about for me in 2021. If I came across it when I was younger it might have been different though, all the magazines for teen girls at that time had a similar tone and I might not have even noticed it.
PLEASEE talk about Marilyn Monroe and how dirty she was done by literally everyone around her, she deserves justice even in death after they let the guy that literally sexually blackmailed her (Hugh Hefner) pay to have his own grave next to her because he was obsessed with her !!!
Ikr. It’s quite tragic and whenever I think of what happened with everything. I get sad 😔
I was thinking the same. I used to believe she was overhyped but no, she was a talented actress ruined by typecasting and awful producers. She deserves recognition as a human being, not a sexual object.
Dont forget about JFK!!!
YESSS
Yes please
Bodies like Marilyn’s are criticized for being too sexual, and bodies like Audrey’s are criticized for looking too boyish and not womanly enough. We can’t win.
for real women have no peace
Lets just meet every woman in The World and make a pact to get buffed
@@elmstreet2036 lol should we 🤔😏
what the hell they’re both stunning women!!! who could find anything to criticise? mind blowing.
@@raahimas2776 because the media can't breathe without pitting women against eachother, its their oxygen
Breakfast at Mina's
When I watched Funny Face for the first time I found hilarious that everyone in the movie kept saying Audrey's character looks "funny" or "ugly" (before her makeover)... while she just looks like Audrey Hepburn... gorgeous as usual. I guess it is understandable considering what you said in the first part of your video, because Audrey had a bit of a tomboy look compared to other models... But still, it doesn't make much sense, ahah
“Hello my doves” 🥺 that phrase definitely makes me smile
id love to see you talk about some stars who arent as well known now who were important fashion icons at the time! loved this video makes me want to go watch her movies
Had a rough day and this was an absolute delight. Thank you for the beautiful video :)
I literally love the amount of research you put into these
Been on an Audrey binge and so thankful I was able to find your channel. xx
FUN FACT: Audrey Hepburn once said that her character in Two for the Road (1967), Joanna Wallace, was the closest to her actual self.
once stayed in an airbnb with multiple picture of her on its walls it was weird
I would be interested to see a video about Elizabeth Taylor. Love watching your content btw
Hey Mina, loving your videos! They've been my information centre for the last month or so. Can't wait to see what comes next. Love from India
I’m not being mean at all but the she said Ralph Lauren made me laugh sm😂
I think people forget that Marilyn was also small, she had a 28” waist
I LOVED THIS ONE MINA💓 TALENTED B!!! i’ve also never seen you in a turtleneck and it’s a TOTAL look ! xx
I like the Cinderella allegory. I would take it further and suggest that, like Audrey the Dutch resistance spy/dancer turned star turned hands-on disaster relief worker, many of her characters are more rebellious survivors than carefree party girls. Ann flees the strict control of princess life to experience independence in a war ravaged Rome. Holly does sex work she doesn't always like so she and her disabled brother can have a better life. Eliza makes a risky arrangement with a cruel teacher in hopes of starting her own business. And Audrey does it all with love, grace, and style. When asked how she navigated the worlds of Hollywood and war, she said, “I don’t consider it two different worlds. It’s all my life.”
I should clarify, she wasn't Dutch, but she worked for the Dutch resistance.
Loved the video, from what I remember I have only seen Audrey Hepburn in the movie Sabrina and I loved it, my mom and I would always watch black and white movies all the time when I was around 6-12. I wish that the talent shown in the films was more appreciated rather than their bodies.
It’s crazy to me how the ideal body constantly changes, constantly ostracizes a new group of women, and then gets changed again. Being a kid in early 2000’s i remember that there was no limit to how skinny you could be, the skinner the better. And that made so many women feel like they could never be beautiful. Now the standard is more a kardashian hourglass with a big butt and I see so many women feel left out of this too. It’s almost like setting and ideal body type standard makes no sense because you cannot change your body to keep up with trends like clothing
i just discovered your channel for this video.. YT quality content yaaaaas queen! thanks for your dedication!! new subscriber here!!
Hello my fellow Viet queen! I love the exposure you're getting and I love following your fashion updates and analyses! Keep up the good work
My grandma had a body like Audrey because she grew up in the recession and they didn’t have much food, much like Audrey. Could be that slight figure would have been more common because of the rationing and lack of food resources for a lot of the population after both wars 🤷🏻♀️
it's a carefully constructed and ~perceived authenticity only, though. audrey as she is in her films is not who she was in life for the most part and it's very interesting that audiences continue to conflate the two despite the fact that now more than ever we're very cognizant of the fact that celebrity is a construct.
also the marilyn slander is OUTRAGEOUS!
I see a lot of Audrey Hepburn in Blair Waldorf and Marilyn Monroe in Serena Van Der Woodsen.
amazing video x
She is the woman that made me interested in fashion when I was 10. And reading more about her just makes me like her even more.
It frustrates me so much that people pitted marilynn Monroe and Audrey Hepburn against each other! They were both so iconic, in a perfect world their differences would have been celebrated and not critiqued
@@ts8404 oh my god really? that is so disrespectful
@@ts8404 bruh tf that’s messed up, honestly people should stop pitting women against each other.
@@ts8404 Not a surprise. A vile worm of a man, despite his talents. He tried to force himself on Tippi Hedren (actress for "Marnie" and "The Birds") multiple times and threatened her career prospects and mental stability when she resisted.
I think it's so interesting Mina highlighted Audrey Hepburn wasn't associated with children because her on-screen personas were childish//sexually infantilised, because on the flip side of that, Marilynn Monroe reportedly also adored children but wasn't associated with them because her on-screen personas were 'over-sexed' bombshells.
It could be super interesting for Mina to further discuss how we view old-timey celebrities more as the characters they played and the mythos surrounding their lives than the actual people they were.
wow. cause it's totally not enough to be an awesome person, no, you always need to be better than other woman, definitely. (in case not clear: sarcasm uwu)
I'd definitely like a "Why is ___________ still relevant?" series where you focus on a different, well-known Old Hollywood actress: Marilyn Monroe, Elizabeth Taylor, Katharine Hepburn, Rita Hayworth - just to name a few.
yes!!!
that would be awesome!
Yessss
This 🙌🙌
you are the reason why they are so relevant, girls love gassing up attractive girls with no talent
"Talent. Is what everyone should have been thinking "
I thought superstars that converted to Judaism at one point at their life 😅😅
My dumb ass legit thought "they have hair"
!!!! lol yes!
@UCdgwt5GuRwqs72AQwHGwRQg ?
I thought they were acting during the same era right? 💀
I think it's also important to mention the radically different social backgrounds that Monroe and Hepburn came from. Marilyn came from a very humble American social background while Hepburn was the daughter of a diplomat, was well travelled, educated and had an impeccable British RP accent. It's no wonder that Monroe was condemned to play sexy dumb blondes to satisfy the male gaze while Hepburn was branded as more classy, elegant and refined.
This is such an excellent point!
I did not even think of the classism issue, good point
This
The fact that she was the daughter of a diplomat may have something to do with how people saw her as upperclass, but I doubt it. Most people didn't know this fact about her since her father was a Nazi sympathizer and had left her and her mother, and she and her mother were left for starving during the war. She didn't feel comfortable talking about this abandonment till later in her life. Yes, it's true that she spoke many different languages but i wouldn't say this was due to privilege as you seem to want to point out. I assume yes she had gone to better schools than Marilyn, but most of her experiences in different countries was because she was trying to get away from Nazi rule with her mom
@@kurisucosmo7954 her relationship with her father is indeed complex and not something that is mentioned a lot tbh but I do maintain that coming from a place of lost privilege shaped her upbringing and her world view. When you are raised by a mother who has had access to culture, who travelled more than 99.99% of the rest of the population, who has evolved in high circles, it's almost inevitable that certain values, certain attitudes will be passed down to you. When you compare with Marilyn, whose father had completely disappeared from the picture and whose mother was unequipped to raise, it's night and day.
I hate how much hate Marilyn Monroe got, I feel like it's how we treated Meghan Fox. Even though neither women did anything wrong, and they were just victims of the men type casting them as sex symbols, it caused other women to hate them.
Also side note, Janet sounded so salty lol
good ol internalized misogyny
So true! It’s so sad that now days we are still taking down girls that are “sex symbols “ :(((
@@isabellesnow6008 Ok? That's not why most people didn't like her, and it doesn't justify the misogynistic treatment she received. JFK cheated on his wife, and no one lambasts him...
@@HoneyD109 idk if its internalized misogyny so much as misdirected anger. They should have been pissed at the directors and film industry and all of the patriarchal society that portrayed women as sex objects. Not the actress who is forced into a role. If anything it was their anger at the patriarchy that caused them to lash out at Marilyn. She was the embodiment of a sex object that men wanted all women to be and used her to enforce a role. They were tired of being seen as objects.
So with that in mind, I don’t see how that fits internalized misogyny.
Ironically, Megan Fox had a Marilyn Monroe tattoo before lasering it off
It's honestly so sad the toxic femininity. Viewing curvy women as hypersexual when they might not be at all, and skinnier women as 'nice' and not sexual at all.
Curvy is about shape not size. Audrey had a 14 inch difference between her waist and hips, vastly curvier than most women including Marilyn. We need to stop using curvy as a euphemism and use it for it's literal meaning.
@@balthasardenner5216 Audrey had a 14 inch difference? I don't believe that sorry. Where's the proof? That would make her waist like 20 inches? And it would have been obvious if she had that much of an hourglass figure.
@@melliexcx She did have a 20 inch waist. She typically didn't wear clothes showing off her figure, but there are outfits in My Fair Lady and Sabrina where you can see her figure. There are also some publicity shots for Sabrina where she is wearing a very simple all-black outfit and her figure is very apparent.
@@balthasardenner5216 you can see her figure most certainly. But I think 14 inches might be a bit of an exaggeration.
@@melliexcx Definitely not an exaggeration, sorry!
It's funny how old the standard of classy or later nerdy girl next door vs. sexy dumb blonde trope is. Society loves to pit women against each other, like you have to be one or the other.
@az_koala that was for the sake of a woman in a movie, and the reasons for why they didn’t like each other exceeded past their gender. And that had nothing to do with the fact that they were men. Society putting women against each other is a women’s issue. And seen a lot more in media and in real life.
exactly, and it's still used in todays society, notice how marilyn-ish look always associated with a "bad woman who tried to steal your man" and audrey-ish associated with a "unique female lead unlike others that made a man fall in love bc she was the first who treated him differently" ugh that's suck
And the pendulum of who the “it girl” is swings one way and the other
honestly, I wish Audrey Hepburn was more famous for what she actually did, like her work with UNICEF rather than her aesthetics and women being jealous of other Hollywood stars
? she's famous for being an actress which was her main job for a lot of her life ?
@@luiysia technically she was active as a humanitarian for much longer than her acting career (starting with postwar funds and eventually becoming a UNICEF ambassador) and she took like a 10 year break around the seventies to focus on her family. But yes, her films and style were obviously a lot more publicized than her humanitarian work so that’s what she’s most known for today
@@luiysia well yeah but, as the video mentioned, there were a lot of Hollywood stars but there are very little of those who are remembered. Additionally, a lot of people know they her without ever seeing her act anyway so it's not exactly her acting abilities that are generally admired when people talk about her, kind of same as with the other actresses from the Hollywood golden age
Same, honestly I really want people to publicise the private achievements of old hollywood. Audrey was a humanitarian and Marilyn is a very intelligent woman and even had her own production company and she was a staunch supporter of the civil rights movement and her friendship with Ella fitzgerald is one of my favourite stories about old hollywood
yes she's a really great person i dunno why people only focus on the aesthetic and stuff she's more than that
Isn't it just so upsetting how everybody back then used to compare Audrey and Marilyn, 2 talented, smart, amazing women, arbitrarily giving them a personality according to their body type? It's sick how a petite body is associated to modesty and an hourglass figure is perceived as vulgar. I mean as for clothes, they both wore what was on trend and fitted them best, which is amazing! Also they were both in an industry dominated by men and had to face it. It's terrible that one wasn't given the support of other women.
exactly!!
Yes, the fact that they both could act the same,have the same “scandals”, and dress alike, and still audrey would be the classy one but not sexy bc the guy’s wouldn’t want someone as boyish (at least outside pf Hollywood) and Marilyn would be seen as the sexy blonde that’s only there to be eye candy and can only be appreciated not even for her looks as a whole but as a sexy object that takes into account only her body is sickening. Even more that it still happens today, it doesn’t matter how you act, the way you look will always impact the way society see’s you as a women more, and if your personality does not “match” that expectation you’re in for a LOT of stress.
It's called SKINNY not petite. She ain't short.
@@rainnchen9632 but can’t petite also be referring to a small bone structure/frame, which she had ?? There’s plenty of skinny people who are not also petite bc they’re bone structure is average-sized
imagine choosing Valentio and Ralph Lauren cause you´re "on a budget"
Frr my broke ass could never
it's all relative.. we still, in the developed world, have more money/wealth than most people who have lived on earth have ever seen in their lifetime.
@@laurenbi ^
@@laurenbi that’s 100% true but we also have to pay much more money then those ppl. thus in terms of money gained vs. money needing to be spent id say it’s similar.
I feel like something that Marilyn and Audrey both have in common is how detached their genuine personalities and accomplishments have become from the nigh mythical celebrity worship that exists around their imagery. That alone could make for an interesting video, but I hope you'll do something in-depth for Marilyn too! She was an incredible woman under a huge amount of pressure and I feel like her early death gets romanticized a lot more than any real critical examination of what led up to it.
I think a lot of the distaste older generations had for Marilyn might be from lack of knowledge, at the time, of who she really was. I imagine if you only knew Marilyn’s films and what tabloids said about her (and add in some of the time sexism), it’s easy to see how people would think of her as “tarty”. The same thing happened to Britney Spears. People love the sexualized villain.
I feel so bad for Britney as well. She was a great singer (you can watch one of her first performances as a young girl in RUclips). And she was forced to sing with those stupid se*ual gasps and groaning sounds.
that first line says it perfectly
It's not the way she was spoken about. It was the fact that she presented herself more sexually than what was socially acceptable at the time. Marilyn went against what was considered classy at the time, and did everything that was considered indecent at the time. Even in 2020, a woman that portrays herself more sexual ly than what is considered socially acceptable is villainized.
Think about how the Kardashians are hated for being "slutty" and "indecent" by today's standards.
I feel like really any woman, famous or not, could experience something like this, even today. Like my mom has a witty, funny personality and women would say really mean things to her or about her without really knowing her spirit. Or I saw as a child how relatives treated her, we have now completely cut ties with extended family... I think it is because she's very intelligent, funny, and beautiful, and most importantly a GOOD person. Some people just can't handle that and will villanize. My mom experienced a lot of abuse too and they told her they didn't believe her or say that she was lying. Women sexualized for simply existing, beaten down for having a strong personality ...
Or to my dad, other men would say things like "you're no Kennedy" because he is very personable and outgoing and married to my mom lol. And it's a cringey comment because he wasn't trying to be anything but himself.
I agree with you
It pisses me off how much the people remember Audrey as a young woman and rarely mention her humanitarian work
Same, I didn’t know about how involved she was with unicef until I did a speech on her and I was like woahhhh! She really was a beautiful person inside and out
Plus she was a volunteer nurse at 16 and fluent in 4-5 different languages
how she survived the nazi invasion and helped others!
I know ppl focus on her fashion sense on her younger years but honestly, her UNICEF humanitarian outfits in her older years deserve recognition too
@@marikkelaszlo3355 She always looked great, she was gorgeous and remained an icon, but her humanitarian work since her youth goes to show she was truly a beautiful soul
I love Audrey Hepburn but does it bother anyone else how we always seem to always infantalize and desexualize flat/petite women? They way they often described her as 'adolescent' and 'androgynous' makes it feel like smaller women can't be sexy.
Yep, there’s no one ideal of a women body and the ideal changes all the time. All women bodies are feminine. Have it ever occurred to men that women have different body shapes
In the media in the US, Jane Birkin is (unfortunately) better known for inspiring a bag, instead of being known for "Je T'aime, Moi Non Plus" and for how good she looks while braless in a sheer t-shirt.
@Isabella’s Art yeah fr nobody can win :/
noone can win really, models (who are usually small chested or flat chested) are seen as sexy but women who are flat are not.
@@elenik845 honestly I don’t think people see models as sexy I think they’re just seen as good for displaying clothes. Like idk whenever someone tells me I could model all I hear is ‘you’d make a good clothing hanger for the public’. Like, we still get desexualized in everyday life.
brigitte bardot is the literal embodiment of that meme, "i can excuse racism but i draw the line at animal cruelty".
In a way I "understand" Brigitte's xenophibia, however I do not justify it. Why, because she was the greatest female icon of France in the 60s, and she was part of an entire cultural, artistic, stylistic movement, etc., quite European, and that today we see a lot with fascination. Therefore, the fact that Eropa is now "Islamizing", it is "understandable" that she feels rejection towards it.
@@jzz6342 Agreed to an extent. She revolts mainly against the way that animals are traditionally treated in Muslim countries, and also the modesty and sexual purity preached by Islam which can be seen as regressive and unfair - aka the opposite of what Bardot was known for. Idk. I don't agree with her and I do think she goes about it the wrong way, but what am I gonna do? Tell an 80-something-year-old woman that she's old fashioned?
@@ameliam1957 exactly, one must take into account their life context and their age, among other variables, is not a simple thing : )
I just googled her and you’re absolutely right, lol
@@ameliam1957 i mean there are 80 year olds that dont get convicted for hate speech but ok...
it’s funny because i love audrey hepburn bc of her humanitarianism AND her fashion. growing up and having an early puberty made her physique unattainable for me, but i never really wanted to be built like her. i wanted to find a way to be graceful while also being a bigger black girl bc i never found proper representation of that growing up. she was a gorgeous woman and definitely an inspiration for many. it’s just funny seeing how different backgrounds will change how people view things.
this this this
It’s absolutely hilarious to me that Audrey was not seen as an “hourglass” curvy woman while her measurements are still well within the hourglass silhouette (waist being around 10+ inches smaller than bust/hips. Like holy crap I have the same bust and hip but I have no waist, I’m just a straight body line all the way down.
Edit: I don’t mean for this comment to come off as though I have low self esteem about my body. I mean I do have my insecurities, as everybody does, but this was just meant as an observation that amuses me.
You're beautiful 🖤
all body types can be beautiful,if you dress it in away that make it shine and not trying to make it something that it is not
Hihi same. We‘re still awesome though🥰
There’s actually a thing called Kibbe’s body types, where there are several figures and appeareances included based on your bone and musclestructure, if I remember correctly. For example, you might have the same measurements as Marilyn Monroe, but because you have a different frame, you will not look like her. Same thing for Audrey. I recommend you to watch Aly Art for more on this topic. She discusses absolutely everything about the body types, not just from the frame and clothing perspective, it goes even to hair styles and other things. She even has a test for yourself. You should really look upon that, it gives you a perspective on your type and you learn how to embrace differences from other body types.
@@babydande I know, best theory ever!!! (my second favourite is mbti but that is a story for another day)
anyway what is your type?
You mentioned in your IG story that you wearing a turtleneck was gonna be relevant to the topic of the video and I knew it was gonna have something to do with Audrey Hepburn
I’m so glad because so many people thought I was doing Steve Jobs 💀
@@gremlita omfg I just snorted like a mf pigggg
@@ellagrace4361 same, the noice I made was UNNATURAL
@@gremlita HAHA OMG sometimes you gotta love people
@@gremlita oh hell 💀💀💀
Glad you mentioned Bardot's racism, everyone seems to ignore it
isn’t she an extreme white supramacist now?
@@jacobjacquin yes and she’s gotten into trouble with the french govt because of inciting racial hatred multiple times
@@toofany oh god, that is so disappointing
i didn't even know until she said so in this video, so im glad she was able to inform me
Once I tweeted something about her being racist and I immediately had a French person angrily defending her in my mentions saying that she's an animal rights activist (literally "I can excuse racism but I draw the line at animal cruelty" vibes) and in France they have free speech so she can say what she wants.......okay and I'm using my free speech to call her a racist lol
As an abnormally skinny girl, Audrey gave me my self esteem back when I was younger. As I grew and learned how sweet she was and the things she did with UNICEF, it impacted me so much. I believe that my decision to become a teacher is related to that. Thanks, Mina. It made me remember why I admire her so.
She actually starved during the war and she was trained in classical ballet. That impacted her body.
@@SoWhosGae I know, poor Audrey, I was not trying yo romanticize it, I have an endocrine condition that make putting up any weight quite hard. Seeing her, gorgeous and almost as skinny as me made me feel more human.
@@marialuisasvabvalerio7177 I didn't mean to make you feel guilty either. I don't have a condition, but I felt represented by her too because I can't never put weight either. Always been super skinny and for a while I was risking an ED because of trying to gain weight. My body suffered from that, not to mention psychologically (ppl assuming only pedos could be attracted to a body like mine) but now I'm at peace with myself and my body and I hope the same for you.
Wait what... I thought u were like 16 from ur picture
@@SoWhosGae I loved her ironically because my mother shared exactly the same experiences during the war, and died the same year, same age, also of cancer. So I never thought of her iconic image as much as a silver ghost of someone I deeply loved.
What's ironic is that Breakfast At Tiffany's was originally written with Marilyn in mind, and Truman Capote (the author of the book) got mad when Audrey was casted because she was the opposite of what he had imagined. Imagining Marilyn as Holly Golightly feels so weird
in the novel holly was way more sexual and clearly a prostitute, while the movie just hints at it. so i kinda hate that he wanted marilyn to play her bc she already was so sexualized and, according to the public, promiscuos 😔
@@nostradamus1162 he actually wanted her to play holly bc holly was meant to use her as status as a sex worker to be more effective and complex to her characteristics and storyline it was meant to humanize and understand women who are oversexualized in the world. I think it was smart knowing that Marilyn wanted to play characters that were more complex and challenging
T.C. said in his book that Holly was "stylishly thin". And there are comments in that book that other people mention about Holly's thin image. So it is a subject to ponder how he thought M.M. could play her.???
Guys you seem to forget but though she was curvy Marilyn was tiny, her waist was 24 inches. She was small but curvy and undergarments of the time emphasized that, a size 10 in the 1960s is like a modern size 4. So her casting wouldn't be too off the book, and she was who the author imagined for the role.
I do understand the whole "Marilyn was made for men" tbh, even if I don't agree with it. It makes sense that watching a woman be so sexualized and objectified on screen (something even marilyn herself didn't like, she was only given sexual roles even tho she had the range for other stuff too) would make the female viewers uncomfortable, even if they used internalized sexism to express it. Audrey was less male gaze-y and more like a girl (and thus more relatable to teenage girls than male cinema goers)
@kkaradin No she wouldn't.
@kkaradin no, definitely not. A size 14 then is the same as a pattern size 14 now... which is closer to an American 4 or 6. She was curvy, but very slim. People see “size 14” and think it’s equivalent to a 14 now, but that’s very much not the case.
@kkaradin as others have pointed out she wasn't plus size just soft looking. Also a lot of her pictures people use when saying she is plus size are from when she was pregnant
That is so weird though, I just think Marilyn and Brigitte were beautifully, unapologetically female - they also had that femme fatale element, being able to influence all the men around them, there was definitely a lot of power in that - I'm 18 now and I've been admiring them since I was a little girl, I was mesmerised by that powerful, impactful side of them, they were only really 'objectified' if you couldn't see anything past their physique, which admittedly was probably a case for the male viewers, but female viewers don't have to be uncomfortable seeing more risque female characters, they can give them the courage to be themselves and recognise the power at the core of femininity
@@doelette7400 yes but where you are wrong is that those characters where both written and directed by men. They weren't written to be empowering to women or so women could relate to them but so men could find them appealing. They were also objectified by the men in their lives, Marilyn especially. She was missable with how the public saw her as nothing but a sex symbol and not as a real person. She never got the chance to play the roles other less "sexy" actresses did despite her having the talent and range, she was just cast to be pretty and she had to run away from the media 24/7. I love her style and her as a person (she was a big supporter on civil rights for example) but her life is still more tragic than sexy and fun
Hepburn was one of the first people outside of the Frank family to read Anne Frank's diary, because in the postwar Netherlands she lived in an apartment building with one of the publishing house employees and he leant her the manuscript, thinking she'd connect to it. Which she did, and it became a bit of a lifelong point of identification for her; Otto Frank actually asked her to play Anne in the 1959 film version, which she declined both because she felt she was too old and because of the psychological trauma of the war years that she didn't want to relive.
Millie Perkins was miscast. I like her in the Jack Nicholson Western "The Shooting", tho.
very interesting nice
The drama with Marilyn and how she was percibe as "The enemy" reminds me to the drama with Megan Fox. Two talented womans hated because of the men view they were put into
I see Meghan is being mentioned in this comment section several times. Is there something that happened recently? I haven't heard anything..
@@AirQuotes thanks!
neither of them are talented and they both got famous because of the way they look, if they didn't like it then they should have stopped being in films
@@teegee7445 They just wanted to act. Not be treated poorly.
Also neither had any acting ability at all
While growing up in the 00’s and seeing all these skinny models that I didn’t look like, Marilyn Monroe was the icon that helped me to love my body and think that it’s beautiful. So for me Audrey was just another beautiful, marvelous, unattainable ideal.
Right? Especially in Lithuania where skinny was such huge thing. And god forbid you were short and curvy.
@@JamesGallagher90 agreed.
I see Audrey the same way even now. For some reason I favour thinner figures even though the current "trend" is to be curvaceous. The fact that I'm very short and thin but still somewhat curvy is the reason I can identify with Marilyn more in that sense. Anyway I went on a tangent, but basically everyone finds different things they can relate to.
Same here. In the majority of countries the beauty standard is very skinny and tall, so a woman like Audrey is basically a goddness. And Marilyn Monroe is still the most beautiful American actress for me
in my country she is still the ideal... so i understand :(
The weird thing is that how people say that Holly from Breakfast at Tiffany's is how much of an Audrey character when the role was actually written for Marilyn particiularly.
Yes. I read the short story by Truman Capote that the film is based on. Holly Golightly is a call girl. Capote thought Marilyn would be perfect for the part. He definitely envisioned a more sexualized curvy woman when he created the character. But I think Audrey's wholesome image helped get the story past the censors. A lot of people who love that film don't notice that it's about a friendship between 2 people who support themselves by being sex workers.
And Paul was actually gay in the book! Holly was a very liberated woman and both characters had strong platonic feelings for each other instead of romantic
Sadly I haven’t read the book yet, but yes, this is what I keep thinking about: how was she, such an innocent seeming young woman, to portrait a call girl? 😂 But I still love the movie, maybe it’s not accurate to the book, but her character, I believe, gives the story an interesting spin as well: she seems desperate, doesn’t really have anybody who loves her except for her brother and only tries saving up in order to build a life for the two of them. To be honest the first time watching the movie I kind of disliked Paul though , as he got paid for sleeping with this woman, but then realised that Holly wasn’t much different. On the other hand, when again looking at how innocent and “unexperienced” Audrey’s characters seem, I was shocked almost when for the first time I watched charade where Regina was trying so hard to get Peter’s attention 😂 but anyway, I simply love all her movies and that you can tell that all the girls she portraits are different to each other, but still have her spirit in a way. She just makes my day whenever I watch a film she stares in (and actually my wallpaper (in my room, not on my phone) has her silhouettes and face printed all over it, that’s how far the adoration goes 😂)
@@andreasadventuresabroad5699 wait , paul is gay in the book ? :0 in that case holly nd him in the book are only friends?
@@ideasdivertidas164 Yes. Paul is gay in the book. Paul is sort of a stand-in for the writer, Truman Capote. There is no doubt that Capote was gay. Capote knew women like this when he was young. Find the short story (or novella) and read it. Capote could tell a good story.
I think another thing was that she was the perfect combination of relatable but not relatable. Like relatable enough that u can see yourself in her but not too relatable that you don’t idolise her. A similar idea is used in tv shows with young female protagonists where their lives are similar to yours but just that bit more interesting. Even many YT vloggers fit into this trope.
yeah I can totally see that!
Part of what makes her so relevant today is the simplicity and timelessness of her style, coupled with her incredible charm. People seem to fall in love with her instantly just by watching her on screen.
I'd love to see you do Katherine Hepburn next!
I completely agree, the way she made simplicity so beautiful was truly incredible
Agree. In fact, even without knowing about classic Hollywood you can just look at her and see why she can be considered a classic beauty
I was obsessed with Audrey when I was a teen, for all the reasons you listed. She had all the charm and glamor without the heavy male gaze. And as a young Asian girl, I liked seeing slender dark haired, dark eyed women being elevated and not exoticized or hyper-sexualized. And even though she wasn't a POC role model, her humanitarian legacy in a way "made up" for that (at least in my 16yo head). She showed me how to gracefully carry oneself professionally and personally with kindness. And I aspire to that even to this day.
I hope you’ve grown up to know that humanitarian work does not make up for being Black, Asian, Native. 💀
Just a note: she was very privileged growing up, her mother was a baroness, however her father was a Nazi sympathiser and left them early which traumatised Audrey. Paired with her strict ballet education which gave her a graceful demeanour, it explains her upper class aura. A lot of people are also not aware that she spoke several languages fluently (Dutch, English, Italian, Spanish, French) which is very impressive. She had life experience, knowledge and grace that were absent from the usual glamourous Hollywood actresses.
while she was a young teenager in the Netherlands, she worked for the Dutch Resistance and put on small ballet shows to raise money against the Nazis! she also worked as a volunteer nurse until she was 16
@@tess7476 Yup, Audrey helped fund the Resistance against the Nazi's, which makes her a major badass.
Also she starved a lot during the war so she practiced and helped with empty stomach in the end of the war she became anaemic
@@jankaaishakovacs7714 On top of that, she has actually said that she didn't like how that malnourishment affected the look of her body
I'm not 100% sure but wasn't she very very underweight growing up since because of the war they didn't have much food?? I wouldn't call that privilege. (tbh i just read that somewhere idk if it's true or not)
I wish people would stop pitting Marilyn and Audrey against each other, especially for their looks. Sure, they were both fashion icons in their own ways, but both also did incredible philanthropic work and we should highlight that more! Great video as always lovely x
Exactly they are compared so many times, they literally look different
Audrey Hepburn is such an icon. She’s a beautiful and sophisticated woman.
Ayyy Izone stan taste
@@ihatemathreadaboutsectionb4907 thank you, thank you
@@maddiej2165 ofc :)
And classy.
She was incredibly beautiful, The shape of her eyes was uniquely stunning
It’s so weird to think that Audrey gained her popularity because she was more relatable than Marilyn but the majority of girls I’ve met today feel like they relate a lot to Marilyn.
Why do they feel like Marilyn if I may ask?
I don’t think a lot of girls relate to Marilyn but feel more bad for than relate to her. She’s not really relatable
I think it’s the whole concept of “doing yourself up” and transforming from a normal looking woman to a glamorous beauty. I think that’s what makes her more relatable. If you look at pictures of Marilyn without makeup, while pretty, she looks completely different without all the makeup, clothes and hair. At the end of the day she was quite average compared to other movies stars at the time like Grace Kelly, Elizabeth Taylor, etc. But her style, the way she dressed up and not to mention, her personal life story made her all the more memorable and relatable.
@apenstaartje anna You didn't ask me, but I wanted to chime in because I'm getting more attached to Marilyn the older I get (I just turned 24). The more I learn about Marilyn, I see that there were literally obstacles placed in her way every turn she took, and she was expected to take it all on the chin because heaven forbid a woman complains.
She was expected to be beautiful and sensual, but in fulfilling those qualities she was denied agency and personhood and was reduced to an object of fantasy by the men and women around her.
Everything she became was from taking criticism and slander from others since she was a child and working herself to the bone to get rid of her "flaws." (She has a singing coach she loved who insulted her naturally high pitched voice, saying she sounded dumb. That's why she began to sang in that lower voice.)
She was beautiful and should've had it all, but being desired didn't equal being loved and it seemed like no man could dig deep to find and love Norma Jean. Admiration didn't equal genuine human compassion and empathy and she was genuinely miserable.
I'm definitely no Marilyn Monroe, but I think I can understand the isolation in being a woman, and maintaining an image forced on me.
((Hope this didn't sound like a rant! I have a lot of feelings lol))
@@dreamsicle3113 This is honestly so true, I'm 23 going on 24 and the older I get, the more I understand and relate to her. She was a woman who just wanted to be a woman. But when I was younger I actually looked up to her bc she wasn't very skinny, and at that time growing up, heroin chic was trendy and I developed an eating disorder bc of it. Marilyn just had a more full and realistic body type for me personally, but to each their own. This is why we shouldn't pit women against each other, bc we ARE NOT each other's competition. But yeah at the time, her weight made me feel better about mine.
This was so interesting to me because I came to Audrey much later. Sophia Loren and Elizabeth Taylor were my introductions to old holywood, but I was so interested in them for the same reasons that you talk about people gravitating towards Audrey (other than her amazing talents as an actor, Wait Until Dark was a triumph) - they represented a type of beauty that was different from what was around that I felt closer to. Hitting puberty hard and fast in the mid 2000's and simultaneously feeling really gross about how grown men would sexualize me (being a DD at 10 is NOT fun) and locked out of fashion/beauty of the time (constantly felt frumpy in the very straight cuts of shirts, low rise jeans made me feel like my butt was about to pop out at any minute). So the fact that these ladies were curvy and beautiful and (to me at the time) in charge of themselves was amazing. Such a great exercise to see how others felt the same way that I did, but a bit in reverse. "Accessible" is really all in your perspective huh?
I completely understand!!! I had a DD by age 11. Kate Moss was our queen at the time. And I love her, but I didn't look.like her, and people called me a "slut" for it, as if just existing in my pubescent body was.some.sort of scandal. Its hard to live in a world that hates women 😔
@@bunnykatsoracle3275 Ugh. "Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels." 🙄 Um. ok. Like, shut up and try cake ffs, Kate.
In my opinion Audrey Hepburn also got another surge of popularity in the early '00 because her body type, unlike other hollywood stars aka Marilyn Monroe, fit the beauty standards at the time.
I finally know who is Audrey Hepburn, thank you! I'd love to hear about Marilyn Monroe next!
💀
..............
...........
Wait-
Or one about Elizabeth Taylor
I remember as a young girl being absolutely infatuated with Marilyn Monroe and stumbling across an article that was along the lines of 'Marilyn vs. Audrey', not dissimilar to the article you cited. I read it found that legions of Audrey Hepburn fans had commented about how they HATED MM, couldn't stand how 'slutty' she was, that Audrey was far 'classier' and an all-round better person. I couldn't believe what I was reading - I'd never considered that there needed to be such a drastic rivalry, between two beautiful, talented women. It left me with a sour taste in my mouth towards Audrey Hepburn for years after as it regrettably made me view her as the 'not like other girls' icon... almost a decade on and I love and admire both, but I'll never forget the anger in those comments towards a woman who was really done dirty by the Hollywood machine, and was just as wonderful and talented.
Just as talented? Lol
@@teegee7445 you've commented several times on this video about how neither of these women were talented and only got where they were because of their looks. you sound very bitter and it's very embarrassing that you'd waste your time being so negative on the internet. i hope you find peace!
@@NeshaCora I hope you understand that by lifting up these untalented women because of their looks you are perpetuating a value system within society that means looks are more important than anything else. I'm bothered because you're the same girls that are always complaining about how society forces you to look good. Stop hyping up untalented hot people and pretty soon to be a famous girl you'll need talent rather than looks.
@@teegee7445 for the record I’ve never once complained about how ‘society forces me to look good’; I do look good and I know it. you raise an interesting point though and I don’t entirely disagree with you - beautiful people shouldn’t become famous for being beautiful and I do think we see that all too often in society. the part we will have to agree to disagree on is whether or not MM and Hepburn were talented or not, but aside from that, I don’t think your point is invalid at all, so thank you for taking the time to explain it a little better!
@@NeshaCora The point is they weren't talented, so girls that obsess over appearance nowadays only know them and maybe James Dean or Marlon Brando opposed to Gregory Peck or Henry Fonda, both superior actors (with maybe the exception of Brando, he could act and was good looking). Girls that aren't really interested in film watch these 60/70 year old films purely based on how attractive the actresses in them are. This has never been more prevalent, take any female actor, celebrity nowadays, they're all hot and not that good at their craft. Whereas actually talented unattractive people like Frances McDormand go unnoticed. Boys are not like this at all, we make people famous for how good they are at what they do, like Kendrick Lamar, Kanye West, Kobe Bryant, all pretty average looking dudes that are extremely talented, girls don't like them for the most part. I'm not talking you particularly, there's just an entire generation of girls talking about body dysmorphia, societal standards of beauty and misogyny about how they need to look good but these expectations are put on them by themselves because they make beauty the most important thing in life, right from when a baby's born all they can say is how attractive or cute it is, it's weird and needs to stop. The fact you've seen hepburn's films and not Welles' is just proof of this. It's what holds women back, why do very few women have critical acclaim in any field? Because there's no market for it.
Sometimes I feel like the the perception we have of Audreys persona is something that influenced the Manic Pixie Dream Girl
That's not to say that she herself was any sort of predecessor to Manic Pixies... but like the quirky, youthful, care free even tho shes classy, "nOt LiKe ThE oThEr GiRLs [of hollywood]" image that the media made of her most definitely was
definitely
I think the main difference is she's usually the main character and not used for the male characters development and had some depth at least more than a manic pixie dream girl gets. But I do think she has very similar vibes.
@@Sailorofskies yeah, for sure
That's why I said she was like an in fluance on and a predecessor to
And its not even so much that he characters were either
It's like just the way the media painted her... ya know? Like her characters that she played definitely werent manic mixies... but the image that the media painted of her, which was influenced by her characters, definitely was closer to a manic pixie
@@emmakayisnotok7322 yeah I completely agree she's been painted in a way that's really similar to a manic pixie! I wonder if it could've inspired the trope.
her kookiness was a big part of her persona i think, a real proto-Zooey Deschanel come-do-something-silly-in-public-with-me-won't-you routine
everyone should see her "appearance" on Sky Art's Psychobitches lol: "DABLe DENNIs"
The friendship between Givenchy and Hepburn was so deep and special. He was even one of the pallbearers at her funeral.
I am really sick of Marilyn slander.
same
What Marilyn slander???
@@madisonj5136 did you watch the video?
@@graceraimo777 I did but it wasn’t really slander
@@madisonj5136 I’ve been reading some comments and I’ve seen you talk about how Marilyn was mistreated so I think your confused? I’m just reiterating what was said in the video, not saying Mina was slandering Marilyn. She clearly said she was done with the slander Marilyn gets.
Yesssss calling out that internalised misogyny in the hatred of Marilyn Monroe or Jane Mansfield!! I adore Audrey but the idea that she’s more “classy” and a “better role model” maybe because she didn’t wear a lot of makeup or have a curvy shape is soo misogynistic. I never even thought about this!! SUCH a great video!❤️
Audrey had a 14 inch difference between her waist and hips, how on earth is that not curvy? How many women do you know that have that big if a difference between waist and hips? Marilyn Monroe didn't. Curvy is about SHAPE not size or weight. Very thin women can be super curvy and bigger women can be not curvy.
@balthasardenner5216 how does that work?
Marilyn did NOT deserve the hate she got. Marilyn and Audrey are both *Iconic Queens* so ppl who would and are dragging them can choke on their beverage.
I’m a simple woman. I see Mina post a new video, I watch immediately.
Perhaps that is why we appreciate Marilyn Manroe now, because she is nothing like the women we see on screen. Whereas now Audrey is the beauty standard for women, the cute quirky girl that every main character seems to portray, and because of the sexism women show towards other women now the sexy curvy “male approved” women was thrown out the door. Because in Hollywood women cannot be more than one facet of themselves. Either classy or sexy, sweet or bitchy, blonde = popular and brunette = smart.
THANK YOU for this video!! I feel as though people only remember Audrey as a beauty icon- which she was, no doubt- but she was so much more than that: a child of WWII, fought against the war effort in an underground dance fund, a humanitarian and global ambassador for UNICEF, a loving mother... the list goes on. I admire her greatly.
Am I the only one laughing at how people thought Audrey's looks were relatable
I personally ain't never seen someone as distinctly beautiful like audrey
My name is Audrey, and my sister's name is Holly. My parents must've liked breakfast at tiffany's, lol
one could perhaps say that audrey hepburn was the original 'not like other girls'
same bangs and everything
I mean, I agree in the technical sense. But it's also a bit insulting to her memory to put her in that category - since Audrey herself never positioned herself in opposition to other women and was generally a very lovely person throughout her life. Blame the media for pitting women against each other.
The media marketed her as that. In a time of curvy bodies and long blonde wavy hair, she was indeed different but I don't think that even for a second she took pride in not being like them. Audrey was so humble she didn't even think she was that much of a beauty to begin with. Don't do my girl dirty like that.
i don't think Audrey actually viewed herself that way, but based on Mina's analysis, a lot of her fans had that mentality because of the media. it was a simple joke I was trying to convey in the most succinct way
@@currielee Haha I understood what you meant
I wish people talked more about how Audrey experienced starvation during the war and that she’s partially underdeveloped and that’s why her body is shaped like that. Also she was a dancer first but she stopped because she was so weak from being malnourished.
I know this is like way back then but it still rubs me the wrong way to know people put Hepburn on a pedestal as a modestly dressed, natural-faced, non-curvacious woman in a way that says "all women should be like this and not some busty, caked bimbo". Like yeah, she was definitely great to see on screens when a lot of women in film have been objectified and hollywood pursued the same sexualized body type, but damn don't blame the women. Also, Hepburn is like super attractive even without a lot of makeup and it kind of feels like men's unrealistic expectation for a "modest" girl who's also effortlessly beautiful and thin...
"Why is Audrey Hepburn still relevant?" to answer that question: Audrey Hepburn made a movement and that is why she is still a role model to many because of the impact it made through history. Both Marilyn and Audrey are iconic! :)
yeah her and marilyn both took the world by storm
Completely get what you’re saying and fully agree that body shape and anti-Marilyn sexism will’ve added to Audrey’s appeal but let’s not act like she’s such an icon today just because she wasn’t Marilyn! Audrey’s personality, class and compassion for the world is what made her such a timeless star 🌟
Ayo, for a curvy lady, the Marilyn Monroe look is much more attainable than the Audrey Hepburn look. Just a reminder that there are a lot of different natural body types. The same reaction happened in the early 2000s when the beauty ideal shifts from Kate Moss/Paris Hilton to JLO/Kim Kardashian, many women felt great relief that having a fat ass wasn't derided. In general, it's always best if there are visible representations of all kinds of bodies in media. Bodies of all kinds should be considered beautiful, powerful, and capable and not pitted against each other.
This reminds me of the ol' "do these jeans make my butt look big?" joke in sitcoms and how back then the appropriate answer for the husband/friend/whatever to say was "uh of course not!". Oh how the tables have turned lol
Audrey was actually curvier than Marilyn. Audrey had a 14 inch difference between her waist and hips, Marilyn had a 12 inch difference. Audrey rarely wore clothes that showed it off however. It's important to remember curvy means shape NOT size.
It's all because of the media. Marylin's body type was "THE STANDARD" for an entire era, then it was Audrey, then remember the 90's supermodel era? with Naomi Campbell, Cindy Crawford, that were super tall and curvy. Then Kate Moss type of body was "the trend". It's all about the media and what they sell. The problem is when you're younger and let yourself be intimidated and affected by that sh*t. I was half of my teenage years trying to diet, comparing myself (negatively) with my classmates, who were petite and skinny. I was 10cm taller, of course, I would weigh more than them! But that was not on my mind at that time, my friends looked like the girls on the tv and magazines and I didn't.
Now I'm 34 and I'm happy with myself, but a lot of young girls (and boys) are being manipulated by the media everyday.
Yess!!
Marilyns look is more attainable than Audrey 🤣🤣 don’t make me laugh
i remember trying to watch breakfast at tiffany's with my mom and in the first 5 minutes this white guy was pretending to be asian and speaking in an insanely racist way, we both stopped right away. i could never get into Audrey hepburn after that lmao
Yep. It's blatant yellow face and it's disgusting
Okay but that’s not her fault...?
@@sara-mm9pb i know, i have nothing against her. she was beautiful, talented, smart, and used her influence for good things. i just think it's the reverence and romanticization that's held for older movies with such disgustingly racist and sexist themes that doesn't sit right with me.
Oof, yeah. For my film class we watched Breakfast at Tiffany’s and my professor (old white dude) said “there’s going to be some racist stuff, just ignore it and remember it was normal back then, so try not to get offended!”
So I wrote my end of term paper about the harmful effects of blackface and yellowface in cinema.
@@myettechase get his ass!!!
Cultural contexts aside--Audrey both onscreen and off has a charisma, beauty, and sincerity that combine in an unbearably endearing way. Like other megastars (Prince, Meryl Streep, and Freddie Mercury are quick examples), she possesses an indefinable quality that makes you desperate to watch her. It's as if we sense that there is no one else like her, and there never will be--which makes watching her "live" onscreen all the more transporting. I admire Marilyn Monroe, and I also think it's a fact that she doesn't have the same kind of charm.
Totally agree. Some people just have that unique sublime attraction. Audrey was both accessible, relatable and fun yet incredibly feminine, elegant and worldly. There has never been anyone like this even today.
Talk about Tilda Swinton, Sigourney Weaver or perhaps Solange Knowles!!
The script for Breakfast at Tiffany’s was written to star Marylin Monroe, and the director said Audrey was a terrible recast that ruined the film. But little did he know she made the role incredibly relatable for decades of women.
i always think it’s funny that most people today would consider marilyn as a symbol for plus size or thicker bodies when she was in real life probably as tiny as audrey, she just had those great proportions.
great video as usual and i did not expect audrey when you posted the turtleneck on your instagram 😅
Especially considering she was speculated to be around 118-140 pounds within her adult life. She was curvy but I found it odd that people are considering her “plus size”.
As a lady that loves other ladies, Audrey's smile just makes me weak... and knowing she had such a compassionate heart makes her all the more beautiful!
A video on Marilyn Monroe would be wonderful, not enough people appreciate her smarts and strong personality enough... also, may I also throw here a suggestion for a video on Grace Kelly? I've grown up watching my mom's Alfred Hitchcock movies on VHS and I've always loved her!
My hero Miss Audrey Hepburn, oh how much I love her so much I wish I could've meet her she was not only pretty she was also a good personality woman and well mannered. I love her so much with my heart
She’s my role model in everything I love her sm
@@owenlee3103 same
She reminds me of a little black cat. I think that's why many people like her.
Audrey got me into fashion. I’m a fashion design major now. She is still my biggest muse after the past 7 years
👋🏽👍🏼
nahh cuz the blame being put on actresses instead of the directors and/or producers for how theyre portrayed on cam is weird
Audrey Hepburn is such a role model to me, seriously she had confidence and her work towards UNICEF was so amazing the fact some people skip over this part of who she was really does sadden me.
The fear I felt going into this because Audrey is my absolute favorite actress but you actually said everything I would have said (especially about Brigitte Bardot 😒)
Yes guys enjoy the movies but never forget Bardot is a racist and Deneuve signed a petition against the Me too mouvement.
“they all had one thing in common”
me: they were white
mina: talent
me: oh
Another great dissection! Mina I love the intelligent conversations on fashion you bring to the table
Huh, thats funny about girls and women relating more to audrey hepburn and finding her more sympathetic than marilyn - i do understand, marilyns hyperfemininity and saccharine sex appeal was a gratuitous manufactured caricature and that is alienating, but my own feelings about it go the other way entirely. as filtered through the lens of the passage of time, and all that's happened wrt to a definite cultural shift towards the "audrey" type of glamour in high fashion etc - skinny, effortless, elegant, composed without appearing to try at all - i personally find the aubrey archetype much more alienating if im honest. maybe because ive never been thin, classy, or graceful, or bc marilyn has since become a (veeeery romanticised) icon of mental health issues and addiction in women (which itself is complex and ??kinda problematic), but the equally idealistic and fictional image of "aubrey" type beauty seems much more unattainable to me, specifically BECAUSE it falsely claims to be entirely "authentic" and not contrived. also yeah, marilyn was "tarty", so what? i connect with the risque jokes and being seen as promiscuous way more than wanting to be sensible as per what internalised sexism tells us is more commendable. struggling with an obviously-performed femininity speaks to me more than competently pulling it off while barely breaking a sweat.
both of them are obvs iconic and talented af and its stupid to pit archetypes of women against each other but. yeah. its just interesting how culture has been shaped by all this.
Yes, ultra skinny, regal, always effortlessly poised, charming, elegant and graceful Audrey is obviously much more unattainable than insecure, vulnerable, hurting, lonely, belly pooch having Marilyn. It’s crazy that people try to frame it the other way around. Audrey was the equivalent of the modern instagram ideal. Marilyn was messy and human and didn’t have it all together.
Tbh as a thin brunnette I could never see myself as Marilyn. To me she is an unattainable ideal while Audrey I can relate to at least in how she looks, and putting more emphasis on elegance.
But it's in the perspective of a person what they find relateable.
@@lewienew i love this so much, and ugh i love her. yep there is absolutely a level of metacommentary there present in her persona, and the idea that she was anyhting other than completely aware of it is so weird. what a fascinating person
My absolute favorite person, I loved her so much growing up
“You like D&D, Audrey Hepburn, and Fangoria, you can’t swim, you can’t dance, and you don’t know karate, face it you’re never gonna make it.”
I thought I got this notification a day late.
How? When it was just posted???
@@sonamuexx5850 look at the comment, “breakfast at mina’s” it’s one day old. Also look at the date of posting.
I post a day earlier for my patrons ❤️. The video is posted publicly today.
@@superrichkydz patron
Same 😂 lol I thought my device was glitching lmao
I would love to see you take on each decade of old Hollywood fashion, starting with early silents and moving on from there.
I think Marion Davies was the most beautiful actress I've seen of the '20's. Too bad she's mainly remembered as W.R. Hearst's mistress.
Marion! In addition to being beautiful, she was a great comic actress. The RUclips channel Be Kind Rewind actually turned me on to her comic performances pretty recently, and her level of talent was eye-opening!
The one thing I still don't really get, as someone who just started getting into old cinema, is why was Breakfast at Tiffany's is the one movie of hers that stuck out the most pop culture wise. The story is fine (it's definetly not a bad movie!) but idk why it gets the upper hand on others like How to Steal a Million and Charade that have great and fun plots and equally (if not better) outfits
I would love to hear your opinion on the book “how to be a Hepburn in a Hilton world” it’s very short and I read it when I was about 17 when I thought Audrey was the pinnacle of class without knowing a thing about her or that time period. I think it would be a good tie in to talking about how we view Hepburn, women in Hollywood, and the perceived decline of societal and cultural values as we entered the new millennial
I actually liked that book.
I actually came across this book in the library a few weeks ago. Thought the title was interesting, but when I started reading it the language and implications just really put me off. Not that it's impossible to get good ideas out of it (the sections on friendship and style were interesting) but the language around emphasizing not being like those "dumb, stupid girls who get drunk in public" and the advice that nobody should ever sleep on the first date and men should always pursue the women and its the woman's role to act cool and dress conservatively was really uncomfortable to read about for me in 2021. If I came across it when I was younger it might have been different though, all the magazines for teen girls at that time had a similar tone and I might not have even noticed it.