LIGHTBRINGER - My Final Thoughts
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- My final thoughts on Lightbringer. The fantasy epic form Brent Weeks. What did you think of LIGHTBRINGER?
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What series caused you to have the most conflicted thoughts? How did you feel about the ending of Lightbringer?
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I thought there was no weight to the final decisions. Liv was useless, let Corvan die, Kip's death should have been the big "oh crap stakes are real, subvert expectations". Also White and Black magic had a sense of deus ex machina. I feel that he did a poor job setting up and finishing Abbadon in retrospect. He tried to make this a multiverse type thing and I feel he whiffed a bit. It went from a MUST recommend to something that I preface that it's a good ride that doesn't end as well.
I liked Burning White, but I didn't love it, and I expected to love it. It just didn't seem to live up to its promise/potential, so it managed to be both good and disappointing at the same time.
Hey Daniel great video yet again. I have been considering jumping into doing book reviews given my extensive reading history I think it could be a lot of fun. I thought I might give you a bit of a different take. One of the things I take into consideration when talking about a book is when it was written. I don't just mean the year but what were the books like before the book was written vs what they were written like after. Specifically in terms of light bringer I think you are right that it was ambitious and that there was a bit of failure in execution. At the same time I think this failure is both forgivable and important. Something I would love to see you do a video on is the importance of failure in writing. Too often people say "if you want to be a good writer read good writers" which ya is kinda true but less true than people think. Reading books that have failed and examining why they fail is 1000 times more valuable in terms of learning to be a good writer. Point being I think this was an important mile stone from a big author that will give other authors permission and inspiration on tackling this topic.
I am an agnostic who is writing a book where religion is kind of a big deal and the protagonist is a non-believer. It is really difficult to find a balance between being respectful, not making paper cutout's of what some people really believe, and at the same time not either outright dismissing "haha your stupid" believers vs not reinforcing what I believe to be harmful epistemic frame works. Light bringer while not directly responsible for my choices has defiantly given me the courage to tackle the subject matter. I am very much keeping in mind the ways I think he failed in the last book and trying to make sure I don't repeat those mistakes. I am going to fail and I am happy with that. But ya just my rambling thoughts sorry it was so long.
Have you read all of the ending? there are two secret ending on Brent's website. the Shawarma Scene (read first) www.brentweeks.com/shawarma-scene/ and then the actual ending (read last) www.brentweeks.com/the-real-ending/
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I loved the series and the magic and the character arcs.... but God that was not an ending that sat well with me. I felt that the setup of moral questions only to answer them with if you worship the right god you’re right felt horrible. Finding out about the atrocities the religion of Orholam committed to maintain power makes it seem unjustifiable, but what made it worse was that the attempted justification was to believe in the right god.
I adored the whole series including book 5. It's absolutely my favorite fantasy series. The level of wisdom in these books is so great I feel like it helped me grow as a person. Plus drafting is as cool a magic system I've ever seen.
Drafting is flat out badass!
The fifth book????? I thought there was only four. Sorry just got Into this series.
@@Just_City no worries he had originally planned a trilogy then it grew out to 5 books.
Black prism
Blinders knife
Broken eye
Blood mirror
Burning white
Stephen thanks for the info, I’m gonna order the last two. Take care man!!!
@@1993greeksoldier I just noticed that they all start with B
This cycle is by far my favourite fantasy series ever. The degree of psychological insight into human nature is unparalleled. Both deeply insightful into our inner workings but also amazingly grandiose and creative in world building.
The epilogue is also truly amazing, he does spend time to leave us contented.
I enjoyed Liv's perspective through the series. Through her eyes he got to see the Color prince's army and how the transition to "Godhood" takes place. I agree that in the end I was expecting her to have more impact. Especially with the ever dark gates. I see her character being a tool for world building. If a show is ever made I think they can really utilize her a lot morem
Yeah great point what happened to the everdark gates?? Last I remember hearing was that she opened it. And I'm not even sure what's past the gate honestly 😂
@@brianmckeefrey1446 she did not open it, that was a plan for afterwards. And behind the gates is another bigger mightier nation
I loved this series right up untill the last few chapters. I had a big problem with the fact that the people did not have to live with the consequences of their actions. No death, no mutelation, no disability. Everything that was aleready established was thrown out of the window to give the characters a "nice" ending.
other than that tho, a good series.
There's a secret ending... I think you'll like it
I agree. Having just finished this book last night, I liked how the book was heading up until Karris found Kip’s body at Orhalom’s glare. This book had me in my feelings up until that point, I’ll admit. For me, the best ending would have been Kip not getting revived, Gavin also dying to save everyone, Karris living the rest of her life as a broken soul, stepping down from her position as the White, Andross having to piece the world back together, alone, despairing over the fact that he was indeed NOT the most important person in the world after building himself up to be, and finally Teia living through her situation but being permanently blind, returning to live the rest of her days with her father and whatever is left of her family.
Teia is probably one of the best characters in that book. The whole Paryl thing is just wonderful. And I agree with you.. Burning white could have been extended into 2 books I feel and I would've loved that.
Never would have read Lightbringer if it weren’t for this channel 😊 🙏🏼 should do more final thought videos for book series
Totally get where you're coming from - I also feel like the ending was a bit rushed, but then again the book was SO DENSE. Not a bad thing but definitely something that had to be in the back of his mind, he was taking aaaalll of these characters and trying to bring them to a satisfying finish over the course of an in-book week! Absolutely wild that we were able to get a story that made sense let alone one that felt satisfying.
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I do agree with you that god himself coming down from heaven was a bit much, BUT I think it was handled nicely and tied into the religious themes that he had throughout the book - essentially that god was ever present but for the most part he does his work through people. It does feel hand-holdey but also Weeks takes a lot of time - paragraphs and pages of Gavin having internal anguish over the choices before him. It's SO hard to convey this and while I agree it wasn't 100% satisfying I think this was a great job. There were SO many moments where I had to pause the book just to be like "Holy shit" with how GOOD the writing was in terms of explaining characters motivations as well as their personalities themselves. Gunner's mother, Andross and Felia Guile and their relationship, Gavin's MULTIPLE revelations, SO GOOD if you're a character motivated reader like myself. There's so much to talk about with these books, like I mentioned before they're DENSE and most of the characters make SIGNIFICANT character and actual journeys throughout. I'm not 100% on board with where Kip and his crew's story ended up, I think it felt like another story at times if that makes sense. There could have totally been an entire other novel with the amount of information Brent was revealing, but he mentioned in his author's note how the series had already spilled over into more books than planned. He's a man with a lot to say and I can totally respect that. Overall though it's a fantastic series and I had a lot of fun and from your review you completely agree. Will definitely be picking up any following works by Mr. Weeks.
The simplicity and effectiveness of his prose - WOW
Hey Daniel, I don't know if you'll ever read this but... Thanks to you I'm finally back at reading!! Thank you for your inspiration. I'm currently halfway through TEOTW and it has been an AMAZING read. You are an amazing guy and I hope you one day reach 1 million subs because you deserve it!
Peace!
This is one of my first full Greene-recommended series and it took until now to fully finish it. Albeit, after I read the first book, I took a month or two of other series starts then binged the rest of this series.
I’m a Christian within one of the larger defined denominations in America. I’ve grown up with parents who helped us stay watchful for leadership within and without that claims Christianity as a title, tool, or resource without looking anything like a Christian.
There have been many debates and discussions surrounding some of the questions that Weeks presents. Problem of evil, freedom v. evil, agency of God, man’s capacity to be forgiven. And Weeks presents discussions for a number of these questions that are very similar to ones that I’ve had myself. Many of his presented conclusions appear to be a bit different than my own, but he has some of the best discussions and analogies I’ve seen anywhere-likely because his analogies are based on realized characters and lives that I was able to read and observe.
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Coming from this background, Orholam saying “I’ll handle it never let the stakes drop for me. To many Christians, the idea of God being in control doesn’t mean “It’ll end like you want it to.” So I was constantly concerned for the characters even after they came back to life. Week’s apparent desire to give most main characters a happy ending fell flat despite the stakes being present before that.
It was like going to the grocery store and spending a long time searching through to find good deals, saying no to this, later to that, and opting for the lesser version here and there. Then you go to the register, are told it’s all free and you can go now. You’re wary, confused, still feel like you should be paying, but ultimately grateful, but it all feels off and like you got away with something.
I just want to say how much I love how good you are about spoiling content. I am currently in the middle of book 3 and I love the fact that I can watch these videos and you are always very upfront about spoiler territory. Your channel always motivates me to read more as well. THANK YOU DANIEL!
I agree with your thoughts. This is one of the best fantasy series I’ve read but I was left feeling very conflicted with the ending.
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I don’t like the way everything wrapped up too nicely, and I don’t think there were enough deaths of main characters. Brutal, I know, but after the final battle almost everyone is still alive and that’s not realistic. I agree about Kip, should be been dead or alive but not both. And I don’t like how Gavin was restored either. I love seeing religion in fantasy but when God comes down and fixes all the problems it kind of feels like, what’s the point anymore?
I have way too many thoughts to fit in this small comment box, but yeah, it’s a very divisive ending.
God not being neutral at the end for sure took the wind out of the all the characters sails
That was one of my grips as well. Especially that it was walking back on previous consequences of the series like Gavin not being able to use magic
Or Teia going from potentially being blind to perfectly fine.
Or Ironfist being good, surviving and getting the secretary who also survived
Storeys of Stories as much as I love Gavin he should have died and that would have redeemed him so much more
I absolutely love Lightbringer. It’s in my top 5. The Burning White has it’s flaws, I agree, but it didn’t stop me from finishing it in about 30 hours. The overall flow was fantastic, and I’d love to have a conversation about it with you some day.
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Coming into the last book, my biggest concern was the pacing. I thought that for 3/4 of the book would be stalling filler before we reach the epic conclusion. But I was wrong, the book's pacing was consistently strong throughout all the pages. The story had me so engrossed that I just ran with all the flaws that started cropping up towards the end. I was so expecting Gavin to find only a mindless Nexus of Magic, that finding actual God took me quite off guard. At that turn of events I was so glad to read something new and different, that I didn't much question it. And it would have still been great if Orholam's involvement ended with him helping Dazen not burn alive while drafting that much black luxin. But having a condor fly Dazen to the battlefield, to then push him down at precisely the right time to help kill Koios... that was too much of a literal deus ex machina for my taste.
Still, I find that the Nexus of Magic version would have been the most boring choice, and I would have not preferred it to what we have now - Orholam a reality. That said, when we saw the human figure coming out of the mirror, who Gavin though was Lucidonious, an idea sprouted in me, that maybe there is no God, but just a really powerful Immortal that managed to fabricate a religion around himself. Or better yet, that Lucidonious had found God, murdered him, took his place, and that now he had become an all-powerful malicious entity. Alas, that was not the case, but in my mind I'm still sticking to the "really powerful Immortal" case, and that Orholam isn't truly a God but just a god.
On Dazen:
His story arc of being this god-like being who almost accidentally got knocked off his pedestal to be brought down to his knees, humbled, and reminded of his own mortality and frailness - that was just an amazing concept, and really well executed one. I loved the story thread of him hiding his own identity and kind of losing himself in the process. The peak in this particular book was him assigning wishes to the boon stones, prioritizing them, and then deciding which to drop off into the abyss. How soon he dropped Kip and Marissia, how he lied to himself that Kariss was number one priority - "You know, if I had my powers back, I'd be able to achieve anything on that list". But then... Dazen's redemption wasn't of his own doing. It didn't feel like it was his own choice, it felt forced by Orholam's sheer presence. If it were anyone else but God himself, Dazen would have murdered them/it and condemned himself. Or maybe he would have found his redemption some other way, who knows?
On Aliviana:
Liv's chapters throughout the series felt like they were building up to something, but that buildup kind of fizzled out in the end. She tried to play both sides, but instead of having a deeper impact in both helping and stalling both sides, she was more so passive in waiting for an outcome, only to side with the winner. In the beginning of the series it felt like she would have a weight in the story, that she would be a main character. But by the end, except for fixing a great mirror, she was mostly non-existent. It's sad to see the opportunity slip by, but maybe she's meant to be a larger part in a future series.
On Kip:
Kip's arch was solid - from being this fat, insecure kid with a mouth like the fastest gun in the west, who didn't even believe he deserved to be loved, to becoming this thoughtful and charismatic leader, this wonderful human being, who cares for his people and loves his friends. Just seeing his thoughts shift to brighter colors, seeing how with time people changed their views of him and started to respect him, while Kip himself was blind to the change - it was brilliant and I love the fool. With that arch coming to an end, seeing him tied down at Orholam's Glare, with Rea helplessly crying, showing him what he truly meant to all the people who had known him, but had died... it was heartbreaking. But his story felt complete, whole. His resurrection lessened the gravity of that moment immensely along with the "'No' sometimes means 'not yet'". That said, I do love the character, and I hope his next arch is at least just as good.
On Koios:
He was a really promising villain whose development, sadly, fell in a ditch. He had noble motives, but brutal methods, which made you hate him, but respect him at the same time. But by the end he just felt like the final boss we needed to kill to get on with our happy ending. It didn't matter that he was Karris' brother, he could have been any other person and it would have changed nothing. And just how silly he died after his display of power. Smh.
On Karris:
Her sacrifice was diminished and taken from her with a wave of a hand - no, no, Ironfist was just messing with you all, you don't actually need to kill anybody. The Seer's prophecy that "one will die before Ironfist's army joins" was an interesting misdirection, but you kind of knew it was gonna be Cruxer.
On Andross:
I hated that guys guts, but I also respected and admired him. A mark of a great character. The way his deeds were revealed bit by bit with each one shining a new light on his character was well done. The story that Sevastian told of his own death, and that what Dazen had heard that night was actually his father's cries, was gut wrenching. Andross seems like a person with good intentions that is willing to go to great lengths and do what needs to be done, to achieve his goals which he deems pure and right. I'm mostly satisfied with his ending, even though there is a small part of me that thinks he didn't earn it or deserve it, but that may be because I've read too much of The First Law series.
On Teia:
Even though hers wasn't the story I most enjoyed, it felt the most 'right'. From a girl that doesn't much want to hurt anyone, to a woman that reacts with "Huh.." to a man screaming for his mother and drooling in agony. Hers was the horror story of the books and it was executed well. I especially enjoyed the way in which she was accepted back into the Mighty. Not with a wave of a hand "It's all good, nothing's changed", but with this tension in the group. Will they laugh together at shared jokes, or keep their distance from each other? Will someone condemn her? It felt like walking on thin ice, not knowing when it's going to crack. When will the emotional gulf widen just a bit too much? One wrong word could break these relationships so that they can never be mended again. But people manage to say the right things, the moment passes, and you can breathe again. Truly well done.
So much more to talk about. It really did feel like a full world. Many personas, each with their own motives, goals and desires, interacting with everyone else. Overall, the series was spectacular, and since I'm a sucker for good endings, I'll take this one, look at its flaws as features, and hope Brent Weeks outdoes himself with his next series.
The ending of Lightbringer was definitely a hard miss for me. The story as a whole was still amazing, but considering how literal the deus ex machina was at the ending in can't really ignore the problems I have with it. I ended up liking the ending to the Licanius Trilogy more even if the book series as a whole is definitely not as good as Lightbringer. How the two stories handle religion and how it affects the characters is kinda of a neat contrast and I end up sympathizing with how Licanius did it more.
Licanius trilogy is shit. It literally just fucking switched the main character from Davian to Tal. Who the fuck does that?! He literally has no character development. Quit the series in the second book because of the weird bs shenanigans with switching main characters. And why is the new main character so OP, yet DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHO HE IS UNTILL THE VENERATE RESTORES HIS MEMORY! AND EVEN AFTER THAT, HE DOESN'T CHANGE! IT'S JUST ENDLESS FLASHBACKS!
I quite enjoyed most of the Licanius Trilogy. But the ENDING!!! Had me in tears and I loved it!
I finished The Burning White this week and I'm right there with you on the being conflicted. My biggest issue was with Liv at the end, without giving anything away, I just kept expecting more from her character. And when it was all over all I could think was, "Did I miss something with her? What was the point?"
It'd be weird to meet Daniel in real life cause he wouldn't always be talking 1.75x speed like I'm used to.
Just finished my first read and I'm currently listening to the Burning White audiobook. I initially was really happy with the ending. The only real complaint I had was Liv. I guess the writing worked on me because by the end, I was begrudgingly admitting Andross is my favorite character. Since then and joining in with online groups, I've been made aware of more faults.
I’m disappointed in the lack of your green screen reality warping in this video, Daniel. Unsubscribed!
Kidding obviously. Great stuff as usual! 👍
See, I was so letdown by Blood Mirror that I haven't gotten up the will to read Burning White yet. The mixed reaction hasn't entirely increased that desire, to be honest. I still love those first 3 books though. The best non-Sanderson magic system I've read in fantasy.
The practical realization of what the Lightbringer would accomplish/do left me wanting. However, there were still parts of that ending that had me grinning like a fool.
Spoiler:
The emotions conveyed at Gavin's wedding. His faith, joy and belief that manifest in his usage of color/light again. Got me.
And
"Let's go kill some gods" Come on! That's just fun.
The Burning White ruined the whole experience for me... but the series, excluding the ending, was very good. If you focus on the jorney, instead of the destination, I'd definitely recommend the series.
Same here the book was terrible. This was my favorite series. I literally paid hundreds of dollars on the books and audio books and did not regret it. But this book just ruined the series.
How so? I liked this one more then the last
Was it a Game of Thrones season 8 situation?
@@arte0021 definitely not that bad. I had some issues with it but nothing like GOT
@@arte0021 yes and no... for the most part I really enjoyed the last book, but the final 150 or so pages just destroyed everything. I wish to elaborate, but I might spoil it, so I'll refrain from doing so.
I think your critiques are right on, but I think you went waaaay too easy on the book overall. It was a slog and a half to get to the climax, which then didn't deliver on any level. Book 1 worked so much better, and that climactic battle scene was full of amazing sequences and uses of all different colors of luxin. And named characters who were supposedly great warriors died, raising the stakes. The big battle scene that we've been leading up to for 5 books on the other hand was light on specific action sequences and extremely light in actual luxin use and even lighter on the stakes. Corvan apparently did something amazing with red luxin but the writing was so vague about it I had no chance to picture it or get a payoff from it at all.
Weeks needs a stronger editor or set of Beta readers, because this series started going off the rails in book 3 and entered boring territory by books 4 and 5. It should never have been extended further than a trilogy, and he should've taken Sanderson's writing advice about killing off your darlings. Did we need will casting on top of the luxin magic? No. Did we need to see how Kip made allies of all the different groups in the Blood Forest? No. Giant chunks of books 3 and 4 led to almost no payoff in book 5 at all. But the worst writing sin Weeks committed with the bloat in the last 3 books was making it so god awfully boring.
He created an incredible magic system, used it to tremendous effect in the first book, but then barely made use of the series' best asset afterward--that's such a sad waste of potential.
Agreed with a lot of your comments! In fact, we have a podcast where we break down a lot of these points in more depth. I was more okay with Andross' ending though, he got what he wanted and it wasn't what he thought it would be... pretty fitting
Brent said in an interview that Liv was originally envisioned in some of Tisis' eventual role. There were negative reactions to Liv in the early books, and he decided to change her role. This is probably why she seems more important at first, and then she fizzles out.
do you have a source on that?
@@TheVpog ruclips.net/video/zEalEGCiXeg/видео.html&t=678
Man you are slowly becoming one stop destination for book reviews.. Like Needle Drop....Keep Grinding.. 👍
Yes! I'm so glad we got a spoiler review of Burning White!!
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OK so obvious gripes with God himself coming in and solving problems, I feel like the momentary plot twist that Lucidonius had made himself a god was so good and all of the weight of that reveal was tossed with the mishmash of what happened after(Gavin's dead brother, orholam and angel co., Etc.)
I agree that the character work has been great in the series up til now, and the biggest show of that imo is Teia. We spent so long developing her growth from downtrodden slave into powerful assassin, only for her to kinda sit in a dark room for the climax of the story? Her confrontation with Sharp was great but the 100+ pages after that were empty of her. WE DIDN'T EVEN GET TO SEE THE MAGIC ROPE SPEAR IN ACTION!! Also her reunion with the Mighty was very anticlimactic which sucks :/
Overall I enjoyed reading it(the Easter eggs at the end made me literally laugh out loud which is rare lol) but as an ending to such an epic journey I can't help but feel disappointed with the execution. Looking forward to his continuation of night angel (and seeing if there are any more Angel tie ins...)
Great video as always!
Love this series, incredible storytelling and writing. I have very mixed feelings about this last book.
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The relationship built for Kip and Tisis was Amazing. I needed more of that teamwork in this book.
Didn’t like Cruxors ending, this logical character runs off and try’s to kill his idol without getting an explanation?
Livs story tapered off to nothing.
Didn’t like Andros’s ending, he is an incredible character. Weeks did an amazing job writing him, and he is such a shitbag, but it fell flat for me in the end.
Didn’t like Kips ending, I wish he/Gavin would have worked to together more to get the big mirror array working. Then have Andros realize he is just there to facilitate the work of the actual Lightbringer. I don’t like that Orhulum came down and took away all the stakes. I would have preferred his appearance to Gavin to be much simpler. Gavin loses hope, doesn’t think he can help at all, then Orhulum gives him a “wink” of some kind, and Gavin helps Kip with the array. Something like that.
Weeks is brilliant, I love this series, I love most of the Burning White. The endings weren’t for me though
Can’t wait for Weeks next series
Hard agree to all of those
Wrote my own reply, but Agree with you as well. Well written!
You should read the ending again...the real ending...you might hate it more...
I totally follow your intent with the Burning White video. The Lightbringer Series is good to great, so the issues in the finale are more glaring in contrast.
I have very few complaints about the series because it was so awesome. Read all 5 books over the past 6 weeks while in quarantine and genuinely woke every morning excited to continue the adventure.
SPOILERS!!
Aside from Liv, the character whose story arc disappointed me the most was Cruxer. The most loyal and badass of the Mighty, and he died a very predictable death before the final battle even started. Worse than that, there was never a sense of heartbreak or sadness from Kip or the mighty as a result. I wanted to cry when he died, but after Kip moved on in a paragraph, I lost the sadness for his death that I expected to feel through Kip’s pain. Like it hurt me more than it hurt Kip to lose one of his best friends. And it kind of felt like they shit on him later when they told Ironfist that Cruxer was foolish and reckless or whatever, and that they so easily forgive Ironfist for killing him. I think them dealing with the death of Cruxer deserved its own chapter.
But overall, this is one of the best series I’ve ever read, and I’m sad to be finished. That empty feeling after finishing something so incredible is the true hallmark of a great series.
I read Lightbringer completely due to your reviews and loved the series, until the last book. I was very disappointed with it both in terms of character conclusions as well as story ones.
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The biggest for me was the end to the main moral quandary of the whole series. The series set up a really interesting situation where the main heroes seem to be fighting for something that is pretty questionable and then the in end, a solution is just dropped into their lap that solves everything for them.
You also have a character who's actual child dies and she doesn't even react to it instead begs an actual god to revive her adopted child. Even if she abandoned her child at birth and never felt a connection to him, even growing to hate him, I still don't see her not having any reaction at all to his death.
I don't regret reading it or anything, but the ending did leave me feeling pretty empty.
SPOILERS AS WELL
I agree with kinda dropping the ball on the moral question behind the central conflict. To me, a big part of that was The White King's "arc". He was set up as a mysterious figure who was a powerful drafter and charismatic leader, but he also had an interesting idiology. The chromeria was clearly doing some messed up things, earlier in the series it was less clear what really happens to drafters who break their halo, it became more and more shady how prisms are "made"... In seemed like might actually have a point. He wasn't a nice guy by any means, but a villain who came from a morally opposing side to the "good" guys and whose side you could understand. In the final minutes of the book, that was cast aside for nah, he's just crazy and had a personal vendetta. As said in my other comment, I still love the series, but that was a major letdown.
Spoilers per the comment I'm replying to.
Do you really think Karris would have any affection at all toward Zymun after he tried to rape her?
...her "actual child"? This sounds so fucked up-and kinda sexist. The whole story is literally about found family vs blood.
@@mobeus1 literally my thoughts.
I'm confused not sure if missed things. Why is kip wasting his time with taking over this one little city, and thinking that it's success will defeat the white king? Seriously,did I miss something? I let it play while cleaning, and doing other things. And why did writer decide to turn both women tia,livia dark? That part surprised me. Most characters act like they're better than everyone else, and can or should stand in judgement of other's. they have the right to kill, murder etc then stand for example and expect that kid from last book Quentin ? The book worm smart kid who was charged with killing someone. When tia did the same things. But she visits him as a hypocrite as if shes better. Inside. Just saying. Characters have changed from first book. Most r now dark inside. And ugly. Not even sure why kip never reacted abt his father's kidnapping? Did he not ever know who did it? His fingers? Nothing. It's like he's acting like he never even existed. Or something. Book is hard to read right now. Trying to just get it done. But also what gives kip the right to force those forest people to fight with him? Seriously. Is he new white king part two or what? And what's the end game for it? Odd
The last book had alot of great in it. Dazen on the tower learning what he learns was heart breaking. But then the end actually happened and... i was so underwhelmed.
I think in a world of everyone doing the GoT thing and having very dour endings grounded in reality, Burning White was refreshing for just being a happy ending. Maybe a little fan servicey, but I enjoyed it all to the end. I actually took a long break during the final book solely because I didn’t want it to end!
This book dropped this series right out of my top ten.
Same
Yeah ok
@HailGunslinger!!! that's probably just because you don't agree with what happened in the world. Which is a shame. Open your mind
@@09RetsamEdalb It did the same for me, the whole series was build on clever characters thinking their way out of trouble and in the last 1/3th of this book this is all thrown out and the answer to everything is "god did it", I am fine with religion in books but this is just ridiculously boring and breaks down everything the first 4 books build up.
@@golfbl Yeah, there's a reason Deus Ex Machina is looked down on so much in writing. It's lazy and it feels lazy when you read it.
Is that a Mistborn tattoo?
Yup!
@@DanielGreeneReviews pls do not consume any metals it is actually toxic and can kill you
Lightbringer was my favorite fantasy series of all time before and still is after The Burning White. Enjoying the ride perfectly sums up my feeling about the series after letting the finale sink in. I did not love The Burning White, many things about the ending left me unsatisfied. But that doesn't take away from how much I love this series as a whole. It had my favorite protagonist of all time (Gavin), my favorite "villain" (might be a spoiler to some, so I'll just say you know who I mean), my favorite magic system, most bonker plot twists that had me on the edge of my seat, great humor, an amazing supporting cast with wonderful relationship building... Except for a perfect finale, it has it all. And I personally can still enjoy all the parts I loved just as much .
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Just like you, I didn't like the portion about Kip's ressurection. Not only the moment he came back, I found the entire portion about him and Zymun somewhat anti-climactic, which goes for many parts of the finale.
My major letdown is one you didn't mention in your video - the handling of the final villains. The White King, Grinwoody and Abbaddon all had amazing build up and I was looking forward to how their arcs end. And they all were kind of a letdown. Koios and Abbaddon are defeated in mere pages, the interesting moral conflict Koios presented is pushed aside for nah, he's just crazy. And after all the build up about the Old Man From the Desert, Grinwoody is just an old blackguard with some schemes and the rest of the order is a bunch of amateurs. Wow.
On the other hand, I didn't mind the literal Orholam bit and Andross' end as much. I didn't like the Orholam choice personally, but I still like how Gavin's arc was brought to an end. Being handfed the answers wasn't great, but I was ultimately satisfied with his emotional catharsis, so I can forgive that.
I thought Liv was there just to have a "backstory" for her because of how the ending opened up a literal universe beyond their locked in society.
The whole series literally took place around a few islands. The rest of the planet was a no man's land akin to Cradle with Wei Shi Lindon at the beginning of Unsouled.
I wholly assumed Liv was going to go the route of Hoid and start showing up as maybe some kind of observer throughout the world and gain new powers of her own along the way.
Ahhh It feels so good to hear someone describe exactly my thoughts on lightbringer.. the only thing I would add (spoilers) is that kip coming back because of Carris's Coffee barista made the stakes feel comically low. and then God Comes surfing in to save the day and I almost have to laugh at that ending in hindsight. Great series tho.
That barista wasn't some random person, it was God, the one who was also talking to dGavin on the tower.
@@Egeslean I know but it didnt make it any less ridiculous for me. lol
@@rosierumsey Haha okay, though, honestly, if it was just a normal guy who just so happened to make supernaturally awesome coffee potent enough to bring Kip back from the dead (or the brink of it), I'd almost feel better about that than 'god did it'. Cuz then I'd be like, 'who the hell is that guy and what is his coffee made of'.
@@Egeslean actually excellent point! The intrigue would have helped. God fixing everything felt so cheesy and made me not care if characters were threatened. Lolol
@@rosierumsey I think god could have been added in fine if it were something like, the only thing he could do was grant two boons (the sword and black luxen eye being counted as two boonstones): 1) siphon off the excess luxen bleed so that dGaven could draft the wave of black, and 2) offer the sea demons a chance to repent. If that's all god did, it would still have meant that it was up to the characters to succeed or fail on their own.
I just finished the book yesterday, and I've come up with my own version of what I think would be a better ending (I had to, I was so irritated).
I almost didn't feel like the end was committed to as hard as it could have been. It almost felt like it was left it open to have a followup without the work of immediately developing new characters. I still love the series though.
I don't really understand what all the criticisms are about Brent deciding to give clear answers about Orholam coming down and telling what is right. In my view, ask yourself this question: if you build yourself a magic system so intrinsically woven into religion and ultimately, the only answer you get is 'yeah god doesnt exist and people are just corrupt as usual there's nothing to do about it', would you be satisfied? I think Brent made the right choice having a divine intervention through the character of Dazen and as a finalization of his arc. Everything else you said, I agree with completely.
I think many of the criticisms about certain characters endings makes more sense if you assume this is part 1 of a larger series. I do not think Weeks has said he is definitely doing another follow-up series, but it feels like this was clearly that, similar to how there will be 10 Stormlight books, with 1-5 being a mostly complete story, but with clear threads left hanging to pick up and continue the big picture story.
In particular, Liv and the Everdark Gates feel like they are absolutely going to come back and be critical in a future story. For this story, Liv gave important context and understanding for many things that would otherwise be more mysterious (Breaking the halo, Bane, becoming a god), but she has a big role to play in the next act.
I think many people would have different feelings if Brent had come out and said "This is part 1 of 2 for a bigger story I will be returning to."
There was an evening a couple months ago where I was bored and I wrote the beginning of a fanfiction that follows Liv's evil plans lol.
I LOVED the lightbringer series, however, as soon as I read that kip got revived, I closed the book and took a few moments to accept that the stakes werent as high as I was hoping. Before that though, i had a hard time putting the book down.
One of my favorite series. Last book didn’t ruin it for me. I really loved the characters, magic system, the action. Very enjoyable story and I am sad that it is over. I look forward to seeing what he does next.
"The Burning White" reminds me of "Holy Sister". Both are last books is a wonderful series, that I can't quite articulate why they're not as good as the other books in their respective series lol
SPOLER TAAAAAAG
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So Daniel, big fan here, obviously, been reading fantasy since elementary school blah blah blah, been orchestrating my own fantasy epic for a decade, and i mostly follow your channel to readjust my fantasy reading list, you're awesome, it is amazing to find people across the world (i'm from Greece) that i can connect and relate to so much! That being said, i got into Lightbringer after seeing your first reviews, totally exhilarated to dive into a world with such a unique magic system to help me get new ideas about my own story. Right after finishing Malazan which i worship as a fantasy work, sacrificing and drinking the blood of innocents to appease the malevolent gods of yore of Erikson. Now back to Lightbringer again:
I totally agree with you, even though i really got into the story at Blood Mirror. I loved the magic system, was impressed by the level of world building, Weeks is heavily inspired by Greek language which was very nice. Though i never really got close with Kip and could not relate to him, feeling that everything was conveniently assisting him to become the major player in the grand scheme of things, i fully enjoyed Gavin, Teia, Karris and Andross'es arcs and character developments. But...Liv was completely unnecessary, Koios White Oak had such a boring end to his storyline and climax, and Orholam saving everything in the end was...not the end i expected. But what disappointed me the most was Kip's revival. The scene with Karris screaming and demanding for Kip to rise again, the suffering and loss and the ancient greek tragedy vibes i got was perfect and executed tastefully (brought back some Malazan feels), but the dynamic was lost and right up to the end deflated to the point of me not caring enough about the end of a series that kept me company through the entire summer, with work and changes to my life and tight schedule. Overall, i wish i can reach the levels of Week's storytelling, character development, world and magic system building...but it could be so much more with juuuust a few changes concerning Orholam and Gavin's deus-ex-machina, Kip's revival, Andross getting what he deserved even though saving the world, satisfying a sense of justice and cause and effect or hybris and nemesis, if you like.That's all. Still a great series, moving on to Memory, Sorrow and Thorn!
Liv is a POV for the wights. The Andross ending is an exclamation point on how much of a mary sue he is in the series. It deeply exposes the Deus Ex Machina he literally is in the books. Morally grey/dark characters are fascinating only when they do not act with the knowledge of the writer. Andross performs more great actions than Kip throughout the books, but he never shows us any statesmanship at any point in the 40 years we see. Kip is also a tired mary sue character, where every success is done without merit, and every failure is a success in surprise. Only the Mighty grow throughout the series, with choices made have consequences, and not every choice just works out. The Black Guard are even soiled to fools, ultimately defeated from within and without. Only the Might and the Iron White keep their integrity in this fifth book, whereas the first book shows us there is a morality to them that is roots deep. And yet, one battle / 10 trainees / 3 senior members are removed, and they become unequal to the Light Guard by the 3rd book. Even the magic system breaks down later on, but only in its unfulfilled promise of linking in the world religion I think. The series is worth the read despite all of that, and I think its metaphor puts it best: The story is but a mirror, reflecting the lies of the world as we would see them. This series offers no great insights to the reader, but it certainly drives home the urge that most of us read fantasy for in the first place: in different perspective to help us all explore what we think our reasons are for being in a world we find our selves in. With that perspective, the ending shows us purpose for every radical change for every main character at the end. That was a lot of words to get there though (o.O)
People complain about Gavin flying off at the end to save the day, but he already saved the day with the black and white luxin. Gavin was only going to save Karris. Thats it. He didn't do anything else after flying back to the Chromeria.
My opinion:
The burning white was not good (though not horrible). As a matter of fact, my views on this book haven't changed since I saw it. Actually I was somewhat irritated, since my views differed widely from your review, but now I think we got somewhat closer. However, for me it wasn't only the ending of this book which I didn't like, but actually most of it. (Though Guile was as good as always)
The Lightbringer as a whole however is a good series. Even with the bad ending it was well worth reading
I kind of felt the story going downhill in book four and the blinding white was just the final nail in the coffin. It was so disappointing after the first 3 books
Lol I'm not sure which book you read
This series to me is in my top 5, the ending to me was good. My wife and I both have been big fans of Brent & his writing since NAT I do think the ending left a little to be wanted but overall loved the entire series and will definitely read/listen to it again, when my daughter is older she will have to read about her namesake (Karris)
Yeah, A lot of it was handing answer on a silver platter. I expected that "god" would have been who Gavin guessed it was but it wasn't bad having turn out as it did.
I just felt there were no stakes in the final book...
SPOILERS
The only time I gasped was when cruxer dies. Even when kip 'dies' I was like "oh ok" as i both wasnt bothered and knew that probably wasnt going to be final.
I think every high stakes moment was just good guy wins
So true.
Kip dying should've been a dramatic moment, but somehow knowing that he will surely not die made it... well.. not a moment..
Spoilers:
The series became much weaker after the blinding knife. The action very much tapered off when Gavin lost his prismatic powers. There was nothing to take Gavin's place as the action hero. That was a huge part of what made the first book so dynamic. I felt the hole he left was never really filled.
Spoilers:
I really understand where you're coming from, and I agree with you that Gavin left a significant hole in the action side of things. However, I think that was kind of point. Gavin was one of the most prolific drafters in recorded history in this world. It is mentioned again and again that he stands even above other great prisms themselves. So he is the superman of this world, his practical demigod abilities in book one and slightly less so in the book two is to show us as readers how amazing Gavin is. It is so much more fun and interesting than if we had just heard his hype. So when he loses his powers we miss them almost as much as he did. We miss seeing Gavin take on the world and WIN. From then on in the serious epic moments are built on the teams that achieve them. We FEEL Gavin's absence because things of equal awesomeness occur only when teams work together with more than a little luck on their side. I think the hole he left was never meant to be filled, by any one person. It is instead filled with our other range of characters that we follow, and that's pretty poetic considering the end of the series.
I totally agree with all your points. I understand what the author was intending, "here's this awesome power, now it's taken away." Honestly it helped me understand what Gavin was going through at the loss of his powers, I felt that let down with him. His character arc was magnificent. But as far as action and conflict, the book got about 60% more boring after that.
The most interesting part of the magic system was how the colors interacted with each other. When it went away, nothing really replaced it.
It was like this... You know how in Metroid at the beginning you start out with all the powerups? When you lose them all you have to spend the whole game recovering them for the epic showdown at the very end. Well Lightbringer started out like that, with all the power-ups, but once they were lost they never really came back. There was no Samus V Ridley payoff as far as the magic system goes. The character arcs had satisfying enough conclusions, but there was a ton of creativity in the magic system that was left on the table, imho. I still enjoyed the series.
AGREED!
The blinding knife is by far my favorite lighbringer installment . It's SO good.
"I think Lightbringer is completely brillant" good job on this one x)
During the COVID summer I was seriously craving some huge books. My girlfriend got me the entire series for my birthday and I tore through all of them. Lightbringer has a solid place in my personal top 5 series of all time. I never thought about it being a borderline mystery fantasy until you mentioned it in one of your videos. It makes a lot of sense though.
I felt, trying to avoid major spoilers, like the chapters taking place at the destination of the pilgrimage of a certain character where constantly going back and forth on the development of said character, that they were very preachy and heavily religiously influenced to a point that lowered my immersion and that they felt both rushed and stretched. The last point holds for the entire book, too. But with the religious aspect in mind, I did like the ending. If you are going to go biblical with your world, then it's perfectly reasonable, if not necessary, for your characters to be rewarded by the god that is just and good. And I'm a sucker for happy endings, too, so there's that. :P
I just finished the series from Brent “almost” Weeks. It would have been my favorite series ever if it wasn’t for the last 2.5-3 hours on audible.
The series before then was brilliant. The storyline was probably the best I’ve ever read and the detail in the storyline made the pacing incredible. I was so enwrapped in this series that I listened to it on audible so fast that my brain still hurts lol. My favorite storyline was definitely Gavin’s but I really liked all the characters. It bothered me that Gavin’s story had been built up so much through the books, gone through his repentance/suffering for so long, and to face his judgment by God humbling and uplifting him only to arrive back home and do absolutely NOTHING lol. Like talk about the most lack luster comeback ever lol. I get that part of his penance is not getting acknowledgment but really? That’s all that happens? He gets back and everyones like oh, hi dude. What a waste of beauty.
In addition, I felt like some storylines weren’t closed very well. The white king just died like that? Teia and Kip didn’t really talk about their relationship etc
I was surprised more people didn’t die as I was worried Karris would and thought Andross would but It didn’t bother me really. It can make for a better story with that realism but I don’t understand people who say they wanted some dark ending lol. Wouldn’t really make sense with some of the themes and It’s an epic fantasy after all.
So much missing dialogue between Gavin and Kip/Karris. Like nah Gavin hasn’t been gone for half the series, no need to inquire about anything lmao
I think your disapproval of Andross Guile’s ending stems from what makes Andross such an amazing character. He is Machiavellian in the pursuit of his goals, but his goals are noble. Andross lives in a corrupt world where morality isn’t clear, largely due to the corruption of the Church, and is the most effective actor in it. Despite a lack of direction from God, and his Church, Andross correctly senses that his world is in a crisis and does whatever he thinks is necessary to save it. Why would he be punished? He made mistakes. He was wrong. But nothing he ever did was to enjoy the suffering of others, so I don’t see why he should suffer.
Dude he murdered his own son. And caused the death of another of his son. And imprisoned and tortured the last of his sons. And paid mercenaries to beat up his son's wife. And tried to murder his grandson.
After finishing Lightbringer just today, and coming back to this video I have a few thoughts myself:
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It doesn't look like Kip ever finds out that Gavin is really Dazen or that his father is really Andross. I've been looking forward to both being known to Kip ever since they were revealed. Really bummed out about this one.
Kip seemed to be against slavery, and that would have been a more powerful end to his arc if he was seen as a "breaker of chains" character.
As you said, Liv was disappointing.
Cruxor dies too easily, and for some reason, I can't figure out why he needed to die. It didn't impact any character emotionally.
The Immortals aren't explained very well, and I think it's one of the clearest signs that Weeks didn't plan the story out. "Old Gods" is not a term you give to a group of hundreds.
Orholam being able to deactivate Grinwoody's hold over Dazen that easily was really dumb, and it made me question the point of the Order of the Broken Eye in the plot.
i feel like i need someone to explain the book to me or at least the main questions:
SPOILERS
who was kips dad,
was Gavin in the dungeon? what was on the cells? how were those ... things captured?and no one noticed...
was Andross the Lightbringer? was Gavin? was Kip? was neither? the prophesy was false?
Now there is Lightbringer so... no more prisms? Is he the prism? are prisms gonna be born again?
And these are just may main ones not clear enough...
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Not sure on Kips Dad. (They walked back the Andross thing at the end so not him so i guess that makes Gaven. Gaven with kips "mom" or with Karess is possible.....or Dazen and Karres as they had been an item before Gaven. And that Darvos happen to be in the same town as Kip may mean there could have been some switched at birth shenanigams going on. Fanfic the answer i guess)
The prisons were made for those demons and Gavin was never there.
All 3 were the Light Bringer. I would guess the different prophets saw the future from different angles and people imagined there was only one. In the end though Dazen and Kip let Andross have the mantel but he did the least work in it.
@@fcold9402 Who was the lightbringer is up to interpretation. Personally I refuse to believe the Red was the lightbringer, because he didn't fit with any of the prophecies.
I'd say either Kip was the true Lightbringer, or the three Guiles together were the Lightbringer like you said.
@@najsbajsmedmajs gavin alone also could be. In terms of feats, he is definately the highest of the three at the lightbringer moment. None of the three fit all the prophecy's description, so i dont think its meant to be answered.... still a bit of a let down.
I just finished the book tonight and had to come check out your thoughts. I really enjoyed the Lightbringer series as a whole but the Burning White was definitely my least favorite book of the series.
SPOILERS INCOMING:
It felt like the entire storyline with the immortals really should have been cut. I'm imagining Brent's editor pushing the storyline back and back through the other books (as there were a lot of hints and small scale immortal stories throughout) and then just thinking "Screw it, if they've gotten this far they're gonna get the 5th book" and letting Brent go hog wild on the immortal aspects. I think that really hurt the story. I got super bored every time orholam or the good or bad immortals showed up and basically Deus Ex Machina'd shit. And things wrapping up with a nice bow felt strange for a series that was so savage with consequences. I walked into D-day and got a kiss on the forehead at the end.
I'm no diehard Campbell theorist, but I do think that characters sacrificing something for their victory makes stories a lot more powerful, and the Lightbringer's ending sapped that power right out. I still love the prose and most of the book is really good but I'm just baffled at some of the narrative decisions that went on here.
Bonus gripe, I'd have also cut out Zymun from the story entirely. He was a pretty flimsy villain in a forest of giants and every chapter with him in it was super boring. I get the Joffrey vibes that were attempted but I'd stop and take a break every time he showed up.
Spoilers:
There are a few small things i didnt like, for example murder sharps death or how the order was treated, or that the color prince was kind of a let down. The thing i have a huge problem with is orholam. It just feels like there are no stakes at all. Kips revival has to be the worst and most anti climatic things i have ever read but at the same time there are just so many great things in this book. The word „conflicted“ doesnt even come close to describing my feelings about this ending.
But God coming in and helping not "fixing all the problems" makes sense. He helped but didn't just out right do everything, Gavin still had to do most of it. But it makes sense for him to help when immortals and 9 kings are on the battlefield
just finished this series after watching your WYSR lightbringer video. read all 5 books in a week and a half. all i can say is i cant give the guy enough credit for taking the prods and pokes and questions he set forth in the series religiously and morally, and following the thread to the end, pushing past where alot of books just stop ambiguously. it had to take some stones to know there would be obvious criticisms about a preachy theme, but we had some of the most epic magic battles and highest stakes ive ever felt for fictional characters for four books, im glad the burning white fleshed out the entire theoretical philosophical world mr weeks had been priming us for. Luxin has to be one of the most tangible magics in fiction and it had so many functions for expanding the themes with simple light and color metaphors
SPOILER
Orholam showing up as Orholam and a slave has to be one of the most clever handlings of a theophany in anything outside of actual religious texts. also
i gotta say i REALLY thought there was no chance of a happy ending there. mr weeks had me convinced nothing was gonna workout and that was that. but j pushed along and it has been so satisfying. i cried like 8 times even before the climax of the book. fan fucking tastic.
I just finished it, I really loved the whole series. The writing style is right what I like, funny, good romance, great action, heartbreak. Loved It
I thought Liv was going to help Kip in the end... it would have been more satisfying imo
This video couldn't be more perfect for timing. I just finished the Lightbringer Series last night so I am just mulling it over now but I do agree on a few things you've said.
I also really enjoyed light bringer but I felt it had a lot of flaws in the storytelling aspect though. The biggest example is the storytelling at some points don't really match up book to book. Like for example at the end of the third book iron fist is convinced that kyp is the lightbringer but then for no reason at all ,never even explained iron fist is convinced Gavin guile is the lightbringer in the 5th book
I more enjoyed the series as a whole than I did not enjoy (because the world, magic system, and characters were great), but I also, by the 3rd and 4th installments, found myself having to force myself through it, due in large part because of the swings in Gavin’s backstory. I mean, once his backstory finally settled in a definitive way I kind of felt cheated by how much time was spent on the early portions of Gavin’s past. I mean I became really invested in a certain aspect revolving around a Deadman, only to have that investment feeling like it was stripped away later. Then, because of that 180, and other subsequent re-reversals/not-reversals-that-kind-of-were-reversals I was left never feeling like I could believe any truth about anything or any character as the story progressed. It left me feeling like I was walking across a desert filled with quicksand and no mountains or landmarks in sight-which way do I go? Am I still going the right way? Was I ever going the right way? What am I even looking for? And then...I suddenly wake up in the middle of the oasis with no idea how I really got there because all my footprints were erased by the sand storm that blew through while I was passed out.
I’m not really sure what any of the above meant, but that’s definitely how I feel when I think about this story as a whole, when I try reflecting on my opinion of it: unsure, with a definitive hungover side of “I know I had fun last night...where’s the Tylenol? And stop yelling at me” headache.
Dunno mate, your original review didn't seem that confused to me, in fact it's the review that got me to pick up the series.
As for the series, it was brilliant. I absolutely loved it. Some parts about the ending were a bit less brilliant, but it's journey before destination anyways.
That haircut tho. Daniel out here lookin like a snack
There is a fairly large bald spot on the side of my head due to a slip of the hand. I am trying to angle my head to hide it.lol
Spoiler
Thoughts in regard to Andross Guile: so I found myself identifying with some of the feelings Andross had at times in regard to the church and religion. And in that light, i found it interesting that he ended up being The Light ringer, not as a reward, but as God saying that even a blasphemous, borderline evil person can and will serve if I so choose. And his "reward" and sacrifices didn't lead him to rest, but more and further work. Doesn't seem like much of a reward to me, just a gilded, on-going punishment..
I wanted to like Black Prism (and the Lightbringer series) really, I did. Because of you, Daniel. I watched your top fantasy series of all time and started to try them out 1 by 1. I read 100 pages of Black Prism and didn't like the writing, nor the main character. The writing is very simplistic, short chapters to keep your attention, the descriptions are sparse and the dialogue is simple. It's like YA high fantasy but not marketed as such.
Personally everything in book five just landed for me and I just loved it
While I enjoyed most of the Lightbringer series, the ending and lack of stakes kind of ruined it.
Just picked up the First Law trilogy and the 5 stand alones so I am hoping for something better, I've heard they're great.
@@kkc6912 G'day Kev, just finished Last Argument of Kings.
Say something about Joe Abercrombie, say he is a damn fine storyteller.
Love it, moving straight onto Best Served Cold 👍
Lightbringer, actually Brent Weeks in general, is on the top of my TBR list. So I didn't finish watching this video yet. However, your hair looks really nice in this one. Fresh haircuts always feel so nice.
It's going to cause division, or be divisive. Derision is more like mockery or contempt.
Your thoughts on the last book fits my own very nicely. Love the series and the last book was amazing as a whole but the ending felt a bit rushed and not matching the overall arcs of some characters.
An updated tier list of magic systems please!
Before I buy a book, I read the ending. I don't want to waste time, and money on a book, where I hate the ending. Also, there is never, ever anything new in fiction. For example, "Spoiler", In Stephen King's The Stand, the Hand of God comes down, and sets off the nuke, killing all the people in Las Vagas, or "Spoiler" In Stephen King's Christine, we read how Christine comes back to life and kills everyone. I mean, I seen the movie, and I wept when poor old Christine was murdered by the evil meat bags. So, when I read the ending of Christine the book, I knew I would love book. Knowing the ending of a work of fiction, is the best gauge of the quality of the product. They say King writes bad endings, but his good endings make up for it. King didn't hit the ball out of the park with the ending of Christine, He hit the ball so hard, it landed on the moon. Here an exiperiment for you. Most of you have never seen the movie "Colossus, the Forbin project." Spoiler, the good guy wins, Now that you know the end, watch the movie, and ask yourself, "Did knowing the ending, ruin the movie?" Colussus is the best science fiction movie of the sixties, if not the the most prophetic. I promise you from the bottem of my dark heart, knowing the ending will not ruin the movie for you. Oh, don't RUclips the ending, that will ruin it for you. The ending will still be a surprise if you do this experiment right.
This is literally the stupidest take on reading I have ever heard lmao
I don't know if I agree with your take on Liv . IMHO, Liv as a character represents hyper-rationality - the Vulcan mindset. The author's overall metaphysical point in the series is that in the end, relationships and living them with integrity are what really matter. Liv's excessive rationality destroyed her capacity for relationships. She sort of faded away purposefully because she lost her capacity for connection.
You look so nice in this video!!
Definitely one of my favorite series. I think delivering a generally happy ending in today’s grimdark / greyish fantasy world is hard to do. I do have some of the same qualms with it as you. ****SPOILER*****I’m hoping that Liv is a thread left open to return to that world. Zymun was my biggest dropped character not a satisfying ending to his character for me.
Just read the series from your praise of the series and really liked the end was good but not great had some parts that just didn't seem right to me.
Had some great stuff like Kip's sacrifice, Dazen with god, moments between characters, Andross being pissed at how he saved the world and much more.
But
Hated what happened with Cruxer, Should have been Ironfist going after Grinwoody and killing him and getting injured or even dying from that.
After Kip died he should have been resurrected as a immortal instead that way it would have felt more of a sacrifice as he would have new responsibilities he would rarely be able to visit his family and friends.
More time with Zymun and the White King more from their perspective.
Needed something with Liv as found her perspective bits a bit too dry would have been interesting if she allowed herself to get stabbed by the knife freeing herself and killing the immortal/god.
Some main characters had to die it felt a bit to happy end with basically every main character still alive especially for how real and serious the series has been at times.
Loved this series. One of my favorite magic systems ever.
Yeah I agree, considering the themes and tone of the book, the endings like wtf?
It's a good book top ten too.
I agree about liv fizzling out
Also the revival of Kip Lost some of its gravitas
I understand what he was trying to do with Andros because there is one particular scene that let you know that Andros told his son he was going to sacrifice him. What I think is Brent didn't have enough page space so he had to move some things along more than he should've.
I just finished the series myself and the only thing I can compare it to is a college gymnast having the most perfect, record breaking routine ever and then stumbling an extra step on the landing. Does it ruin the Lightbringer saga for me? Absolutely not, its still a phenomenal series. Karris is hands down in my top 5 protagonists of all time but the last 25% could have used a little more massaging and tightening.
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Any Deus Ex Machina repulses me and there is none so obvious as having literal God show up to save the day. In my mind based on everything that happened previously, I thought Daizen alone was going to be the Lightbringer. Kip was definitely too pure for this world and making him a Martyr made sense to me. I thought when the white luxin was released it would some how heal Daizen, he would turn his back to Orholam and some how he would return to the Chromeria just in the nick of time to save them all. Imo Andross truly did love Kip in his own twisted way and the death of his (son? grandson? I'm still unclear on that part.) Would be the start of him down a road of reparation for the rest of his life for all the people he sacrificed, especially after realizing he wasn't the Lightbringer. He would finally turn a new leaf or maybe jump to his death unwilling to accept the truth that he wasn't the Lightbringer. Daizen would have a new lease on being the Prism he should have been and Karris being the white would have been the leader they all needed. Then we would have gotten an epilogue of them debating whether everything that happened was part of Orholam's plan all along (instead of him intervening directly and keeping the "God moves in mysterious ways vibe). Finally Karris would have ended up being pregnant, it would give Daizen and Karris the chance to be the parents they wish they could have been. Idk, the way the series ended it truly just felt like "I like my characters too much to kill any of them" Especially with Liv inexplicably saving her father. Probably the thing that irked me the most was Zymun's death. He felt more like a plot device than an actual character and as awful as he was a quick bullet to the head was very unsatisfying.
Idk. I loved the series and would still recommend people read it but I definitely have some qualms about the ending.
Boy oh boy looks like someone hadn't read the secret endings
SPOILER INCLUDED
Totally agree with you on about 90% of the critical and personal review. Critically I agree about everything, and personally I think Liv was supposed to and in the end only gave a hint here or there. I LOVED the inclusion of the big O actually showing up, and it was brilliantly done with the prophet with him. The ending felt almost toooo happy, like things worked out too well? I’d argue he was more of a conduit to give the characters a chance to save the day, but I totally hear you with him just dropping down and spitting “right/wrong boom I’m god problems solved” Also 100% Kip death/not death kinda pulled back from the story for me as well. It just felt too much and I could tell he wouldn’t stay dead. Keep up the vids, I love ‘em! Thanks for your work Daniel
I personally don't care about an authors opinion on moral questions in real life only that it is consistent in universe. Also, I am here for entertainment and for likeable characters (do i want to spend 20 or more hours with them?)
I liked the characters, I was entertained, and the morals in the book were consistent in universe to me, so i liked the book.
Now i did think there was some plot dropped. Could have used more on Liv, could have learned more on Zymun. But overall i was pleased with the book.
So uh, I'm a year and a half late for this but I kinda want to talk about this and my irl friends either aren't big fantasy guys or haven't made it to Lightbringer yet.
Spoilers I guess
Coming from someone who is a Christian, the ties to Orholam and God were well done and I wasn't really sure which way it was going to go until book 5 on whether or not He actually existed (didn't know Weeks was a Christian going into it) and I found the initial payoff to be satisfying and a good look at forgiveness. I didn't even mind the intervention that much (helping give Dazen power and control over black for example), but it did get to be a bit too much at the end (especially with kip being revived) and Dazen being healed back to normal. It did feel like a lot of Deus ex Machina at the end (though I appreciate the machina joke) and while some of it was satisfying (Abbadon at the end was smart, I just wish there was a little more set up there personally) it was also kinda meh.
As far as characters go, I agree that the ending with Liv was kinda meh. I get the idea he was going for, that pride destroys us and her flippant healing of Corvan (more Deus ex Machina) was the end of her humanity. But she didn't have an impact despite being an interesting character in the first few books. Teia was a cool character who got dragged down a bit by too many fake out deaths at the end. You can only almost kill a character so many times before the idea of them dying gets warn off and you become a bit apathetic to their fate, but her struggles were awesome until the end. Honestly the one that I found the least satisfying was Cruxer. I honestly thought he was going to get axed in book 2 and while I appreciate what his death did for Ironfist and his development, it felt like Cruxer had more to do/ give. I wanted to see him in more turmoil with his relationship to authority and the betrayal of his hero and trying to be judicious about it instead of diving headfirst into conflict. I understand it and it makes sense with his character, but it felt a bit underwhelming.
Last thing I'll say is that by the end I was kinda annoyed by the constant flip-flopping of the lightbringer. Everyone kept saying they were the lightbringer, who the lightbringer was, what they were going to do, and I kinda got sick of it by the end. Just say who it is and get going is all I wanted by the end (I still don't think we ever really got that). With all of that said, I loved this series. It is probably ranked 3rd of the Fantasy series I've read (granted that's only LoTR, Cosmere, this, Harry Potter from ages ago, and Locke Lamora; I do view the cosmere as multiple series, so I prefer SLA to Lightbringer atm but not Mistborn) and I really loved it. I started getting back into fantasy this past year and I've really loved exploring all the new worlds and Lightbringer was a fantastic development in my exploration and showing a different world and really exploring it. I really loved this series and I think while the ending is going to always be contested, the body of work is just so good that it will stand high for a while to come in spite of it.
THANK YOU!!! Without you I wouldn't reach for this series! AND I LOOOOVEEE IIIIIT!!!
The "complete package" way is really The best way to do reviews.
I think there's a bit of cosmere going on with this series and I think that's why the Liv thing fizzled
idowatiwant9 the cosmere is Brandon Sanderson not Brent weeks
@@bookaholicgameaholicvlogah4191 obviously, that's why i said a bit of cosmere, you know like I think he is planning his own shared universe
I did not hate the ending, but it did have issues. Over all I give The Light Bringer series a 4.5 stars out of 5. I loved Orhelm's personality, but he did feel like a mcguffin. I think if you are a fantasy fan this is a must read, and if you love your interpersonal relationships this will be right up you alley.
I feel like Lightbringer hinges on which characters you liked the most. I appreciate going for the crowd pleasing ending but it was just that... done to give a happy ending not to address the problems with the story by literally having the highest possible authority tell you what is right or wrong.
I've loved this series since Black Prism was published back in 2010. Sadly, Burning White took a sharp turn, as you mention, that took me out of the book. I agree with the points you make here and a lot of what people are saying in the comments.
*SPOILERS*
I loved the 'bait and switch' elements of this story, particularly in the prison were visceral scenes for me. It added a layer of suspense and intrigue that I've rarely come across in Fantasy. But, by book 5 so many "bait" explanations for the prison had been given in depth (Will it be discovered? Will his brother escape? Did his brother die? Did Dazen dream it all? Then who is the "dead man"? etc.). When we finally get a definitive reveal of what is inside each cell (which is freaking scary what's in there!), it's glossed over and told to us by side characters. IMO it would have been stronger for a flashback sequence (or a scene that Brent Weeks is MUCH more capable of creating than me) to SHOW us what's inside; Dazen hunting one, how he forced/tricked one in there, then willingly choosing to "black" out his memory (maybe a flashback is too Stormlight-y, but you get what I'm saying).
I really thought this story would conclude with slavery having been abolished or at least on it's way there, not through the Order, but maybe Kip and Tia (perhaps Liv with the Tyreans). There were many appalling scenes where slaves were abused, and the younger characters internal struggle with it. Instead the status quo remained. The stakes for the characters were reduced, and mostly if people weren't redeemed/promoted they were restored to their original positions; Ironfist commanding the Blackguard, the redemption of Andross (ugh), Dazen de-mutilated drafting full-spectrum color again etc. sigh Tia, Kip and The Mighty have a lot of work ahead of them.
The world building and main character building was top notch;
The magic system was mind blowingly comprehensive and cohesive, albeit a bit too complicated at times, especialy at the beginnings.
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Mild spoilers ahead
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I very much enjoyed most of the books, but couldn't get along with what the narrative wanted me to feel / who to root for.
The underlying morals and plot tools used to propel the narrative and wrap it up, not so much to my liking.
It's giving us the semblance of grey area and moral dilemna but in truth at the core it's just black and white, wich is worse for me because I can't even agree that the good guys are good.
The villains suffers from MCU problem: they are a joke.
It's sad because they all could have had proper motivations and amazing background that we got glimpses of (Liv, Murder Sharp) and deserved character moments at the level of the main cast instead of being used as mere foil storywise, to the point of being ridiculous and caricatural by the end .
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So, the Wight King was a bogeyman villain plot device.
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But!
What if he was a man who truly wanted to end slavery?
A true victim of the chromerias criminal underhanded doings rising up against iniquity?
On a genuine quest to find and give access to knowledge buried by the Chromeria's lies?
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Most of the events would still have unfolded exactly the same way but that would have made it harder in contrast, for our heroes to not look more the part of the the villains (except for Kip maybe) fighting to protect a corrupt society, so it was a no go? That question made me view Dazen, Karris, Teia in a much less forgiving view point. They really are mass murderers trying to justify their crimes. It's is not something I enjoyed, I wanted even less to forgive them for it, as the author took so much pain to try to force the readers to.
Imo the story would have been much better if the main characters had to face their own hypocrisy and the flaws of their world instead of having the leasure to ponder it for a second then gloss it off and not seriouly ponder over it just because the opposition (broken eye/wight king) are cartoon villains.
Dazen had this sort of redemption arc, but the lesson he learned from it was to stop trying to save the world and just keep being a selfish bastard because by experience that's what he always did and he always got away with it all. A lying pervert narcisist with good intentions that still destroyed countless people's lives and always got away with it and just keeps going.
Can comparing something bad with something worse really make it look good and ok?
After 4 books listing all the centuries of failings, crimes, lies of the Chromeria, they get away with it all without even having to take responsibility for it?
They were given the moral high ground on a technicality (GOD coming down in person), not because they deserved it, but because it fit the narrative better.
It made the happy ending such a farce.
And it did not not sit well with me.
I really enjoyed the whole series, loved the ride, a lot of my expectations were subverted and redirected in interesting ways, and I like several of the choices, but I feel like there was too many conveniently happy endings than were merited. Certain characters should have stayed dead, other things seemed rushed. I really didn’t like how they resolved Abadon’s subplot.
I wish we got to watch what happened in that little post-script adventure, and I wish more characters had to face more serious negative consequences for their actions.