PROOF Brigham Young was SEALING WIVES Without Joseph Smith!!
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- Опубликовано: 10 фев 2025
- STILL MORMON SPECIAL EDITION: The EXPLOSIVE 4 February 1862 Letter from Augusta Young to Brigham Young! -- the CRAZY Letter Historians have ignored!
In this episode I again go in the letters from Augusta Cobb to Brigham Young, but this time I read the ONE LETTER that provides concrete proof that Brigham Young was acting behind Joseph's back and that Brigham SEALED HIMSELF to Augusta without Joseph's involvement. This astonishing evidence is what critics say didn't exist. I'm so excited to share this powerful content with you.
ROB FOTHERINGHAM'S PRESENTATION ON JOSEPH F. SMITH AND THE 1869 AFFIDAVITS:
• Bogus Affidavits
MICHELLE STONE AND CHERYL BRUNO Paper on the 1869 Affidavits:
(coming soon)
SEE DON BRADLEY'S COMPILATION ON MORMON POLYGAMY MATERIAL
mormonpolygamydocs.org
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Thanks for stopping by!
As a life long member of the LDS church, Polygamy always felt wrong to me and there was darkness associated with it. I believed it was a commandment of the Lord and that it could be required of me…because that was what I was taught. The thought made me ill. I’m so grateful that the Lord woke me up and showed me that Joseph did NOT practice polygamy and more importantly He showed me that He, the Lord, is not a polygamist! It is NOT his way! When you read the actual events in history; the evidence is there. The evidence tells the true story and the Lord is testifying of the truth of it all! It is being shouted from the rooftops! Thank you Jeremy for your research and presentation! The truth is setting us free!!!
There is loads of evidence they were both pedophiles. Disgusting you support that.
In a parable given in Ezekiel 23 God likens himself to a polygamist
@@BrianTerrill Open to interpretation? Have you ever wondered though of ALL people why was Adam not a polygamist? Noah? Why not Lehi? If ever the Lord needed a righteous posterity built up unto him it was at those times.
@sarahpeacock9686 Adam and Noah were building a society from scratch. All their children would have a chance to choose righteousness. Abraham lived at a slightly different time where there were more non-believers than believers, and the need to raise up seed from righteousness men was essential because the alternatives led to Sodom and Gomorrah types.
@sarahpeacock9686 and for the record early Jewish legends had it being that Adam was a polygamist, his first wife was Lilith.
The unsuspecting hero in this story goes to Caroline Lewis. As I was watching the story unfold and the comments of Augusta building up to what this testimony was going to be in court about her, I was expecting that that Caroline was going to sound like a gossip or had some ill will towards Augusta. What unfolded before my eyes was the exact opposite! Caroline’s testimony held simple powerful truths that expounded beyond polygamy. This woman testified that she had learned doctrine that she was not to trust in “men” no, not even just Joseph Smith without going to the Lord and asking about a revelation or doctrinal truth. This is what Joseph Smith wanted, and this is the traditional narrative we were taught about asking and receiving, yet no one in leadership will condemn polygamy as a false doctrine, or a doctrine of the devil, especially to say that it is required for exaltation. No one will take it out. To disavow polygamy does not mean I disavow my ancestors, it means I am free from this false doctrine, and THEY CAN BE TOO. They can go to Christ and be free in him. They are not their own saviors and that is very, very good news! We can repent, turn to the Lord.
The floodgate of truth has been opened and there is no going back. People should not be condemned or excommunicated if they stand up and say I can take all things to the Lord. If I run into Doctrine that is self-centered and does not glorify Christ and it is only about my glory and exaltation, I should run away from it.
Amen.
Oh what a tangled web we weave when at first we practice to deceive.
The adversary weaves his webs trying to go unnoticed in the dark corners ensnaring unsuspecting prey.
But when the light shines just right, you’re able to see it for what it is. All you have to do is look.
Thank you for shining the light.
Emma Smith is the person in church history I’m closest related to. I asked my mom why she never went to Utah and my mom goes, Emma and Brigham hated each other.
True story.
Excellent groundbreaking work! Cobb has always been problematic and, as a result, ignored. If it wasn't already, the rabbit hole has become an abyss that the church apologisists and "historians" can not ignore forever. Thank you for the significant time and effort you so willing devote to this.
Great podcast Jeremy, your research is greatly appreciated! ❤ It’s like Emma Smith and William Marks told Apostle Edmund C. Briggs that, “the worst characters in the Church hovered around him (Joseph Smith) all the time”. “Joseph had been deceived in some men who were hovering around him, and that he was not aware of their real character until just before his death”.
I sure wish that Joseph had lived long enough to have had William Marks bring nine of the twelve apostles up before the stake high council on charges of polygamy and they would have all been excommunicated…then the saints would of never went west to Utah.
Jeremy, I’m only 2 minutes in and am amazed by your ever-increasing production quality. Bravo!!
Thanks so much!!!
You are easily impressed by an easily sourced soundtrack and a little bit of editing? I have a story for you....
Keep going till this gets shouted from the rooftops to all the world. You are doing a great work!
My favorite statement in this entire episode: “We know that certain personality types, like narcissists, do this.” 🫢🤭🥶Boom! Lol! 🤣🤣🤣
I laughed at that too! Haha!
and narcs want it to continue! I read an article in Psychology Today in 2024 that stated we are "growing" narcs at the rate of 1 out of every 24 males in the USA, where as other countries like Japan, had them more like 1 out of every 100. More recently the statement was made that now it is more like 1 out of 6. I do blame the misogynistic culture so many of us are working to fight through the generations. Bravo especially to good men for their great honor in REAL relationships that have a chance to be healthy and happy!
Excellent as always Jeremy! if I was on the jury I would believe the Cobb letter over the affidavits. Thank you for your hard work!
Been waiting for what seems like forever for this! 🙏
One point that historians (either friendly or hostile to the church) continue to conclude is that Joseph secretly practiced plural marriage. They only base those conclusions on claims of the other party(s) involved, not ever by Joseph Smith. What is often overlooked is that in any legal or spiritual tradition, for anyone to claim that one is married to another person, in order for it to become valid, it must be witnessed by more than one person. This is why the very practice of continuing to give any credence that Joseph was party to secret marriages is, and should automatically be dismissed. For, anyone can claim they were secretly married to someone else, but according to the commandments of God, and in a legal sense, those claims would never be considered valid.
Excellent point!
Dude. No. You're basically saying that even if Joseph did what his plural wives claimed that history could never prove it happened. BS. Where there's smoke, there's fire. By your definition, instead, if he had sexual relations, he committed adultery. I'm only a member these days because of my wife. The church admits he had some sexual relations. Also them not letting Helen Mar Kimball testify during their disputes with the RLDS says it all: they knew he did it and they didn't want to make him look bad because marrying a teenage girl is sus. If it was all made up, there was no reason to suppress her testimony. Are you saying that she just made up her journal entries about how much it sucked and that contradict her later comments that were more accepting? Do you think she might have felt some peer pressure to become more positive about the situation given all her friends and family were in Utah and it was now "cool" to be married to the prophet? You guys terrify me. You're no better than the brethren and all the things they suppress.
Augusta Cobb's story is just so heart wrenching to me. It's obvious that she was a true, true believer. Until she wasn't. I don't doubt she started needing two or three witnesses for everything she heard!
These shady and disgusting dealings are so vile. As a woman, wife and mother I could never understand how horribly gut wrenching it must’ve been to live at that time and be treated in such a manner. There was such little respect, compassion and kindness from church leaders. To be told you were required to be a “spiritual wife” to earn salvation in the name of Christ is horrendous. I don’t blame many for walking away or saying no to polygamy. It just feels so very very wrong. I don’t believe this was Joseph’s way but it clearly was for many.
I so appreciate your critical work on this topic. It's so important for truth to be discovered and revealed. My own grandmother was a fourth wife married in 1904 in Mexico. I have some insight into her hard life as a single parent, my grandfather having died in an accident in 1917. I was raised thinking polygamy was a true principle, but now I am convinced more than ever that it never was and it never will be. The deception of polygamy needs to be uncovered and labeled correctly as in the Book of Mormon, an abomination and a whoredom in the sight of God. Thanks again for your efforts.
Thanks Jeremy for bringing stuff like this to light. Life long member here of nearly 60 years. I just want the TRUTH. Too many in the Church are afraid and don't want to know. They don't want the boat rocked and the possible fall out.
Great episode Jeremy! Its looking at these details that makes the entire standard narrative begin to crumble.
So to cut the chase, Brigham Young was a patent liar.
And more.
Amazing job!! You never disappoint!! Thank you so much for all you do & all the incredible research!! I so look forward to each new presentation!!
THANK YOU SO MUCH JEREMY FOR
YOUR AMAZING WORK !!!
♥️ FROM BRAZIL
I appreciate your work. The more I study church history, the more I don't know what to think.
They were pedophile s
And the more I study the Book of Mormon, the clearer it becomes that the God of section 132, is the opposite of the God of The Book of Mormon. 132 is a Salamander letter, a fake. Joseph did not reveal this...
I have struggled with the history of plural marriages in the church. These episodes you've produced and put out there are a very big deal. The work you are doing to restore Joseph and Hyrum's good names is very significant for every member of the church. Joseph was not a fallen prophet. If I can understand the arguments that you are laying out, I'm hopeful that we see key church historians may perhaps begin to shift away from putting on the perception that Joseph Smith was involved inappropriately with multiple women. When I've talked to friends and strangers outside of our faith about Joseph Smith, they bring up the belief that Joseph had multiple wives and that some were young girls and wives of other men. It has been a tool for the devil to encourage people to reject the restored gospel message. The evidence you've laid out has put my mind at rest with this issue and now I have a solid resource to turn people to if they have this false belief about Joseph. The church really suffered for practicing polygamy and the reputation of the church has been stained because of it. It's time the tide of false ideas get put down for good. Thank you Jeremy! Keep up the great work! I hope you compile a book on this material that we may see if the church historians will budge from their stance. It only takes reading Joseph's words and reading about the many things he did and the reader can clearly see that he was a good, honest, just man, a true friend, a good husband and father, and a prophet of God. His fruits far superior as a whole, to any man in this dispensation. I like what Jesus said. "By their fruits ye shall know them." God bless!
Keep up the great work brother! More people than you know are tracking.
I just got done watching Rob's episode. It never occurred to me that Joseph F Smith wrote all the affidavits and D&C 132😱. I was so sure it was William Clayton but Rob made some good points that make more sense🎯
Excellent presentation! I don't for a second believe Joseph Smith ever practiced polygamy and I'm elated people like you are and others are bringing this to light! Joseph Smith has taken the blame for this ugly stain too long, and I'm pretty darn sure he is happy people are finally learning the truth. I feel a bit sorry for Brigham Young and the other men who sexualized so many innocent women, they need to be help accountable no matter what their station was in the church. I can't wait until your next video, I love how you calmly and articulately lay out the facts, you are easy to listen too, and I am so grateful for you for the time you put into all the research and for making these videos! The facts speak for themself, I'm shocked there are so many people who are still on the fence about this - it was never a revelation, and JS never practiced or taught it, and the facts you share prove it!
Fantastic video, yet again! It's really hard not to conclude the Brigham Conman model is true.
Cant wait for Robs new video to come out!!!
I hadnt heard about that. Do you know when it is coming out.
@@icecreamladydriver1606it came out already and he took it down
Which video? The Affidavits?
@ looks like it’s back up now. Yes he pulled it down about 3 weeks ago
It came on and I tried to watch it but it was horrible. That Joseph F. Smith was so sick and twisted.
Jeremy- look at these comments. Holy smokes. The people have awakened to their awful situation. The truth is so liberating and it is spreading. This is a modern miracle.
The ramification of this is important, and would explain why Emma said that Joseph never practiced polygamy or, in other words, Joseph never behaved the way Brigham did. It would also explain why John C. Bennett claimed that his actions were sanctioned by Joseph Smith. Bennett most likely got his ideas from what he saw Young do.
❤❤❤watching immediately:)
Augusta trying to recruit Catherine reminds me of the way the women in the nexium cult were recruiting new members. Gross.
Excellent work Jeremy! Thank you for this!!!
This needs to be turned into a docuseries on Netflix or something! Seriously so good and amazing information!
This show is a blessing! Thanks Jeremy.
Watched Rob's video and this video back to back. Excellent excellent work. I'm glad you guys are clearing Joseph's name (and Hyrum's and Emma's).
Wonderful presentation. Thank you for clarity and conciseness.
Thank you for helping to bring this to light. I have always had a deep feeling that polygamy was not a good practice even as a small child I recall asking my father so many questions regarding it. I still feel it was wrong and that many were deceived. I can’t think of one example in the Old Testament that didn’t have complications, and we are taught against it in the “Book of Mormon”. I had a great great grandmother who actually ended up in a plural marriage and was left by her husband in winter quarters she had a baby and small children was also pregnant when he left her there to go to the Salt Lake valley, where he then married more women. She was in winter quarters a couple years just waiting for him to return to help take her and the children to Utah. She finally had enough and tied rags around the toddlers feet and set off in a wagon train and they walked most of the way. When she arrived at the foothills of the Salt Lake valley her husband road up on a fine horse to greet them. She basically used some choice words and told him that she had absolutely no need for a man that would abandon a wife and children. She later ended up living on the west side of the valley where my great grandfather at 7 years old would herd the sheep by himself and sleep on a cave at night. They ended up moving to Santa Clara where she had all her adult children sealed to her and her first husband in the St George temple. She had a strong testimony of the gospel and knew that the idea of polygamy was a stumbling block for men and did not believe it was a practice implemented by God. She stood strong in her beliefs and anyone who raises all her children into adulthood and they remain righteous is a good woman. No law given by God would advocate for children to be disregarded by their father and a wife to be abandoned just to go miles away to marry more women. She had been promised over and over that he would send for her or come and help her and the children. She had to support herself and children all while he was living large.
Sad. Thank you for sharing. Too often a few testimonies are put forward, yet we know from Brigham Youngs speeches, the lax divorce laws, and some women's journals how tragic the stories are. It is as Jacob in The Book of Mormon states, a form of captivity.
The experts and historians will be judged by Joseph himself in due time. There will be weeping and wailing on that day.
Is there a verse that says Joseph will judge?
Joseph and Brigham were young men who went through a lot of trauma that led to sexual deviations.
What does this say? Only Jesus was perfect.
Its really sad that you are so dead set on Joseph being a polygamist, despise all the evidence that proves otherwise. @jaredvaughan1665
@@amandadangerfieldpianono. That responsibility is the Lords and the lords alone
@@jaredvaughan1665 Oh BS. Trauma leads to sin? Horse Crap!!! Brigham knew what he was doing and that's why he went to the Chocranites to find a rich woman. He also had Joseph, Hyrum, and Samuel killed. "I have PTSD so I am going to run off and marry me some 50 women". Give me a break.
Hey friends! We're all leaning in to truth. 😊
Yep.
It's a beautiful experience 😇🙏
Jeremy, you should do a top 20 or so evidences the church and critics use to argue JS was a polygamist and in the same video show the number of statements/actions J.S made against polygamy. Another interesting video would be to spend 2-4 minutes on each of B. Young's wives in a single video and show the world how excellent polygamy really was. Same with H. Kimball wives. Great work!
Thanks again for another profound episode! They’re piling up. Not sure how anyone can continue to doubt Joseph’s innocence.
He was a pedophile. You are disgusting
Another stellar installment. Thank you Jeremy!
“Wo unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark.”
The days of the secret priesthood (the “enemy in the secret chambers”) are numbered! ❤️
Exactly
From a psychological angle, thank you for acknowledging (clinical) narcissism (not just narcissist traits). The fact that Joseph just didn't "show up" to do the sealing 🙄 (yeah right, called "future faking", like promising evidence of the revelation from Joseph), and then for Brigham to self seal 🙄 (contrary to the function of Priesthood), to effectively limit the chances of her causing trouble regarding the matter and having Joseph become aware of the expectation she had for him to seal them, is common past and modern narcissistic type tactics. I'm very confident based on the patterns of behaviors throughout his life that he was employing repeatedly, literal, and classical narcissistic patterns of manipulation. I'm very familiar with these patterns personally as well. I know many people like this, and most people don't know this, but in all churches, and definitely in this church, all types of clinical narcissism are VERY common. And it's definitely not limited to men. I know many from both sides and subtypes. Religion, and the culture of the Church, provide a breeding ground for the comfort and protection of often covert narcissists. I'll rant on this on another channel though. I just didn't want anyone missing out on this information. Great presentation of the research as always guys! 💯
Joseph is not the caricature that he has been painted...
@@Bridgebldr I don’t think this comment was about Joseph, rather Brigham
@@susanjacobson9461 Ok I see now, thank you.
I love the church but want us to be honest about our history. Your work is inspired!
And believe the Book of Mormon! Polygamy is WHOREDOM
Good job, Jeremy - John H.
Thank you friend.
Thank you for sharing and speaking up for truth!
I had a realization watching this. I thought for sure you were leading to a conclusion that never quite materialized. It could be wrong, but it doesn’t seem so to me.
In her letters she constantly complains that her good name was tarnished, by adultery. Then she mentions that Joseph never sealed her to Brigham. Then she suggests that Brigham owes her something. Could that ‘something’ be a restoration of her character? A justification that her children or community would accept.
The affidavit accomplishes it for her. “See Joseph accepted my course.” She was asking for reputation management. When it served Brigham’s purposes too, it was given.
In most cases, there may not have been a need for any pressure to be applied to these women. They needed the lie to be true.
This leads me to another conclusion. If the format of the secret priesthood was that women were married to Joseph but held in proxy by these elders, then they would all believe they were married to Joseph. Could this be the source of the willingness to sign the affidavits. It reminds me of the case where the brother (I think Kingsbury) said he was just in a fake marriage to hide Joseph’s real marriage. Was this just another manifestation of that sort of corruption?
I think those ideas are really interesting and worthy of exploration. Thanks for sharing!
This needs way more views! Great job
Thank you, Jeremy. Please keep up this great and important work.
Great job Jeremy! This is so informative and helpful. These historians are getting the narrative pushback they need, hopefully the truth will ring out through the church so brother Joseph can be exonerated!
I have such a hard time not saying something about all I am learning in church !! Anyone else ?!! I just know My hubby would divorce me and get sealed to another wife 🙃
Same! 🙋🏻♀️
Very funny
Wow
It took a minute but you brought the receipts.
Thanks Peter!!
The wisest thing the "church" needs to learn is that there is no higher authority than the HG within each member...to that member. None higher. If someone thinks there is a higher authority than the HG within an individual to that individual..well....who is it? Peace.
Thanks for your awesome work!! Keep it up!
I am a member of the church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints since I was 14 years old and I believe that a member should have one wife.
Joseph didn't. He had 13 of them
@@Saucemcsauce no he didn't. Joseph was monogamous.
@@SummitSecrets it's on the LDS website. Don't lie to yourself
@@Saucemcsauce so everything the LDS says is true? is that what you believe?
@@SummitSecrets I did for 16 years buddy. I'm sure you did too
Thanks Jeremy, so much, for this great research! One minor comment that I have is with regard to your pronunciation of the name "Vilate". Of course, people can choose to pronounce their names differently, but my Grandmother Vilate pronounced her name "Vi" (with an "i" like in the word "bit") and "late" (just like in the word "late" as in "late for dinner"). The accent is on the second syllable "late". It's not like the name Violet at all. Well, at least, that's how my grandma pronounced her name. Thanks Jeremy! I can't wait for your next video.
Ground breaking!! You truly cut through the propaganda and bring history to life with all of it's heartbreak.
I believe Brigham Young is/was a fallen prophet…what he taught about women is shockingly disgusting, among many other “impossible to believe teachings” by him.
He was never called by God so he was a False Prophet.
@keyed llywilson8322. Yes.
I just wonder how we survived Brigham Young! Considering the travails of the Jews through time, the Lord was patient with them. They survived idol worship and false prophets and false teachings and revelations...the whole gamut. I suppose, we are no different. I hope that we are through that rough time, but something else could derail us like wokeness.
But that sweet Adam God doctrine, how can you throw it out? ;)
But why does God allow it, why does he allow this crap to twist and destroy the souls of men in the name of what faith, faith in what? A trickster God that will allow this nonsense
Thank you so much for your work on this! I have followed Michelle Stone for so long. I actually left the church last August after 48 years. I found so many things that bothered me. I would say the polygamy was close to # 1 and finding that Brigham was not who I was lead to believe he was. Does one bad prophet spoil the whole bunch? I don't know but there were many others that we were lead to believe were different than they were. This was really hard for me, at age 78, to have given so many of my years in devotion to the church. I have learned so much so it's not wasted but it hurts that we were lied to. Why did we think that the ole devil wouldn't try to get his foot in the door, early on?!
I feel so much for you. I'm also 78 and left the church in 2015. Painful indeed. Happy though. All the best. We were badly deceived. ❤
After a lifetime of devotion, what made you feel it necessary to leave the Church because of mistakes made by past prophets? The Church today is vastly different from what it was in Brigham Young's time. Personally, I don’t believe Joseph Smith practiced polygamy, and I’m no fan of Brigham Young, but I still find immense value in staying. There is so much truth, goodness, and so many wonderful people in the Church. It’s a place that strongly supports families and is very caring towards the elderly.
I sincerely hope you’ll consider coming back. The wisdom and insights shared by the elderly women in the Church are unmatched, and their sage advice has been a constant source of inspiration to me. Please come back and enjoy all that’s good. ♥️
@@personofinterest8731 Look at the House of Israel and how corrupt it became. Jesus called the priests and scribes out and he cleansed the temple. With all the problems he still had respect for the institution because it was originally founded by men of God. The church had a good influence on my life. I met my wife in it. I’m 60 and so many of my high school friends never married. They are lonely now with no wife and kids because they chased the things of the world and never could build a lasting relationship with anyone.
@@WildPelivan All I ask from the church leadership is to be honest. It’s better to be honest than to try and hide things. You look worse when what you hid gets discovered. There would be no Hoffman forgeries and Ensign Peak scandals if the church didn’t try and hide things from the members. Let’s be honest about Brigham. If anything history is judging Joseph Smith better than Brigham. Let’s not smear Joseph’s reputation by saying he was a polygamist. The truth is some apostles were committing adultery on their missions. They got good at using their position in the church to manipulate women into sexual relationships. Joseph was just starting to learn about it when he was killed.
Joseph Smith was a good, honest, and faithful man and Prophet of the Lord. Brigham Young was a liar, adulterer, and thief. Plain truth.
Absolutely love this!
I do believe all of it, & it gives justice to Joseph's unique mind
Well, done! Thank you for all your hard work and levelheadedness.
my heart goes out to these women like Cobb, but I think she believed what she wanted to believe at the time, and only when it wasn't convenient anymore to pursue this, she regretted it.
Awesome detailed, understandable analysis - thank you!!!
Jeremy -Thomas Grover, seems to speaks to us through you. It feels as if, he wants the truth told, his error made known, to make amends with Joseph. "For their salvation is necessary and essential to our salvation, as Paul says concerning the fathers-that they without us cannot be made perfect-neither can we without our dead be made perfect."
Greetings from the Dominican Republic
Thank you for the painstaking, mind numbing efforts! Of digging through the convoluted doctored history. God really is calling us to rise and awake. Such a contrast to the plain and precious truth of his doctrine and gospel found in the BOM and Bible. The Book of Mormon isn’t Mormon and it’s not Joseph anymore then it’s Brighams. Thank you for offering those who ridicule you so much grace, it’s a true example of the believers.
And... Rob Fotheringham just published a video on the Joseph F. Smith affidavits. It's also worth watching. Oh, you mention it at the end...
The church needs polygamy to be true. The entire house of cards is built on the foundational claim of an unbroken chain of authority and keys all the way back to Joseph. If Brigham turns out to be the villain, as I believe him to be, then he can't be a prophet of the Lord. If he's not, then all his successors aren't. Then everything gets called into question including the massive waste of time called family history/vicarious temple work.
In connection with something you said in your summary. Moroni did tell Joseph that, “God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people.” Who knew that it was going to start so soon? I guess that would be the best time for Satan to get his claws in and try to upset God’s teachings.
Thank you for all that you are researching and presenting for our consideration. I agree with you! If there are others that are helping you in this research I thank them as well.
I had a blessing by a Bishop once that said I was like the Pioneers in my life. Over the last two weeks I have decided my family and I will pack the wagon and head back to Missouri (figuratively). We can't stay among the Brighamites anymore. Time to let go of all the lies and pain. "Wagons East Baby! We nasty apostates are clearing out!"
You’ll be among friends! I’ve met so many people here who felt inspired to come to Missouri and are waking up to the truth ❤
@@jennyforyourthoughts I went to college in Fayette at central Methodist. Played football. 😬. Columbia was the student branch. It was there I got my blessing and went west. Oops
I don't call myself an apostate--more a little heretic. I feel the Lord working on the hearts of His people, to shed dogma and go back to the roots of the Book of Mormon--believe it. I loved growing up in the Church. I love the Book of Mormon. And scripturally, sometimes it is as Words of Mormon says, Holy members and Holy prophets that help the Lord change the trajectory...
These historians 😂😂. Getting mad that their lies are being exposed.
There appears to be more and more evidence of intentional deception. I used to think the "historians" simply didn't have access to documents, that those documents were lost, damaged, or simply didn't exist. But here, Jeremy demonstrates, they actually have seen the Cobb letters, and historical malpractise begins to look more like malintent.
@@stefanylclark7419 Absolutely🎯💯! Doing my own family research I have come across many documents that have been changed, especially polygamist ones. Many 13 year old girls ended up marrying old men. So to soften the blow they change the age. A few of my own ancestors had all the documents stating their birth year scribbled out and re-written to make the girls seem older than 13🙈🙊
If I try and correct the info they lock it. So I have no doubt their mistakes are fully intentional. I only wish I knew why🤷.
That's just delusional. No credentialed LDS scholar or historian, in or out of the church, accepts this delusion that JS didn't introduce and practice polygamy.
Well done 🎉
I find it very interesting that none of Brigham Young's 20 daughters entered into polygamist marriages.
Brigham wanted the largest “kingdom” he wanted to be a stallion with the largest herd.
Wonderfully well done and informative video as always--thank you. Two questions if you have time to answer:
1) When do you think the female leadership of the church will get divine inspiration to read Jacob 2 the way God intended? Seems like they should be first in line to protect their sisters from slavery and misogyny? Seems like they should know the definition of an "abomination?"
2) What is the official church position of having removed God's revelation to Joseph on the true order of marriage (originally section 101) and replacing it with 132? What is the current status of this revelation? (section 101)
Thank you!
I can't answer for the church and I really don't know. As far as section 101 is concerned, I would love it if they would restore it to the scriptures--the current status of it is non-canonical.
@@StillMormon Thank you for taking the time to reply. Last follow-up. . .Do you know what the justification was for taking section 101 out in the first place? I mean--doesn't the whole church need to vote on something like that? Again, Thanks
As a woman, I feel God's word to Isaiah and Nephi, and Christ, and Christ through Jacob gives me permission to shake off the false doctrinal claims of "many wives and concubines" as it is called in D&C 132:1. I have shared with my family and working on extended family that polygamy is not of God, nor scripturally supported.
Isaiah 52 says to “Loose *thyself* from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion.” So each individual has to shake off the dust and reject false traditions. Thankfully that’s happening among the rank and file, but imo anyone who’s risen that far in the ranks would be too fond of their chains to take them off.
@@jennyforyourthoughts Insightful--thanks!
Fantastic presentation! Thank you for seeking the truth and sharing it.❤
Are you going to talk about the men "sealed" to Joseph?
Great work Jeremy. Do you happen to have a link to those documents please
There is not an online link to the documents. They have to be requested from the Wisconsin Historical Society. I'm working to publish all of them in due time.
With advancements in AI and so many digital copies a historian in 2030 can easily be 1,000x more effective than one in 1930.
This feels a lot like the Salamander letter. The part where Brigham calls Joseph's character into question is just too far fetched.
Brigham was not perfect but he was faithful to God and to Joseph and was favored of the Lord.
If Brigham was a deceiver and a scoundrel as you try to depict him, he would not have had the support of God to accomplish the things he did. The Church would have withered away in Iowa and Nebraska and would not be what it is today. It would be in the same boat as the C of C.
There are plenty of examples throughout history of wicked men doing marvelous things. Brigham's accomplishments as a pioneer and city builder need not indicate that he wasn't a scoundrel.
logical fallacies
@@freesaints I was referring more to the building up of the Church. The structure of the Church as we know it was in large part organized by President Young. The growth and prosperity of the Church and the blessings poured out on the Saints over his 33 years of leadership, along with his lasting legacy are a testament to his dedication and faithfulness to the Lord. Show me anywhere in the history of God's dealings with mortals where He has allowed wicked men to lead His people into such spiritual and temporal prosperity. Name one prophet that went bad (if there is one) that was not promptly removed from his place by God.
@@letusreasontogether1168 That's a fair point. However, consider the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. These are churches that have been around for over 1,000 years. They have a rich legacy filled with many amazing early church fathers.
In Ether, we learn of the king who was just with the people but was ensnared by immorality. Creating a prosperous church does not mean that Brigham was a prophet.
I have read enough of his journals to now believe he was more concerned with accumulating wealth and women than he was concerned about the things of God. It was heartbreaking to realize how much he had in common with wicked King Noah.
You ask me to name one prophet who went bad and was not promptly removed from his place. The point of this question was to prove that because Brigham wasn't removed, he must have been a prophet. There is another choice. That choice is that he never was a prophet.
Most people who revere Brigham know very little about him. From his own letters and journal entries, we can see that, at the very least, he was a liar and an adulterer.
I have no ill will towards the LDS Church. In fact, I think they have something special and unique. However, they hold to the narrative of polygamy because, without it, there is no proper succession from Joseph to Brigham. They whitewash the history of Brigham and the other early presidents who came after him. However, lies and adultery were common. I wish it wasn't so. The fact of the matter is that the LDS Church does have a succession problem. Utah temples are different from the temples Joseph built. It is doubtful that garments, the Utah endowment, or polygamy came from Joseph.
The historical documents made available by the LDS Church paint a very different picture than the one you will hear about in Sunday school or read about in the Saints books. Don't take my opinion for it. Read the historical record for yourself if you are interested.
Anyway, thank you for the dialogue, I wish you the best.
Hard pill to swallow. But it is true. We see his BY imperfections. He was still an anointed servant. It does not take away from the good he did. I don't care for him. I think God did though.
Another great episode!! Thank you for all your hard work!
One comment/correction, Caroline Elisa Nickerson Hubbard stated that Thomas Grover was the first boy born in polygamy in the church on Nov. 17, 1845. My gg Grandfather, Joseph Bates Noble, had a son born in a polygamous marriage on 2 February 1844 (George Omner Noble). I was always told that this son was the first child born in a polygamous marriage, but it's possible there was child born shortly before George from another polygamous marriage.
Actually the first boy born was Jason Turley in 1842 (that we know of). Then Heber Kimball had a child with Sarah Noon in 1842, then William Clayton had a child in 1843 with his second wife Margaret Moon. Caroline's statement was about what she believed, but she wasn't aware of the other children.
@@StillMormon Thank you!
Did Brigham Young forget that the "revelation" in D&C 132 states that only one man at a time can hold the sealing keys?
Of course, that is obviously incorrect, but how could Joseph seal Brigham Young to wives and then Brigham seal Joseph Smith to wives if only one could hold the sealing power at a time?
Yeah, it doesn't work. Brigham forgets his lies all of the time.
Revelations 18:3-4 (KJV). Why would the Restoration Church/Mormon sects be free from a sure fire prophecy? They would not be. But, note verse 4. "3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues".
28:00 The newly recognized letter (Feb. 4, 1862) from Augusta Cobb to Brigham Young.
Wow!!!!
That strong woman!!!!!
I would hope to be like her!!!!
Fascinating! Thanks
Re: Thomas Grover affidavit.
He is saying he was sealed to his first wife who passed away and his second wife who was living. He isn't saying they were practicing polygamy or plural marriage.
You apparently missed the rest of the analysis. That is not what he was intending by what he wrote. He wasn’t sealed by Hyrum Smith. He wasn’t in the quorum of the anointed where those sealings took place. His second wife didn’t mention it, an incredibly odd thing to leave out of your account of your marriage. It was used by George Albert Smith to prove that he had been involved in polygamy. It demonstrated an obvious and willful intent to deceive.
@@StillMormon I wrote this before I finished the video, but it did sound to me like you were saying he was claiming to practice polygamy by that affidavit, but that affidavit isn't claiming that because one of his wives was dead, only that they were sealed to be married in the next life. Yes, the discrepancy is claiming Hyrum sealed them.
Appreciate you watching.
What’s the difference between a special episode and an especial episode?
three degrees of glory.
A fine presentation. TY
Jeremy, I have a theory that the famous confrontation between Brigham and Hyrum in 1843 over polygamy was actually a confrontation between Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, but that Brigham, to protect his own claim to authority and to downplay direct confrontation with Joseph, substituted Hyrum for Joseph smith in the story. However the story ends, Brigham thinks he was able to leverage Joseph or possibly Hyrum's silence on the subject explaining why a more public confrontation never occurred.
You should really do a deep dive into William Law's Diary, it's history and what it talks about. It is one of the very few pieces of evidence that is used as contemporaneous evidence that JS practiced polygamy. Individuals like to cherry-pick from the Diary (which I believe is fake) to prove JS practiced polygamy. But they like to leave out the part that if it were true, it's so incredibly damning b/c the Law Diary details that JS propositioned WL's wife for wife-swapping.
I agree. That's coming. Michelle Stone has done fabulous analysis of that source. Like so many of the sources the other side uses, it doesn't prove what they say.
We don’t have Brigham’s correspondence back to Agusta so we’re only getting Agusta’s perspective.
Uh . . . She kept saying he wouldn't respond . . . Did you catch that? Try to keep up, Brother Jerry . . .
@ Yes I caught that but that was regarding a revelation she assumed was specifically about her and Brigham. That being said, we still don’t know what his side of the story is.
@ She remained his wife and chances are they had many conversations and may have cleared up what we’re not seeing.
It may be easy to believe in her case that BY convinced her that the principle came from JS but actually didn’t but that requires we ignore all the other women and men who testified that it did come from JS. Do you think we could find that quantity of faithful leaders of the church today that would enter into such an evil conspiracy after a life long devotion to the faith? Come on!
I'm sorry there are logical fallacies here. A few:
Appeal to Popularity (Bandwagon Fallacy):Assumes something must be true because many people believe it, rather than relying on evidence.
Appeal to Incredulity:Dismisses an idea as false simply because it seems hard to believe or understand.
@@Christina-e6d Just because I didn’t state the mountains of evidence that polygamy deniers ignore doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Yes I appealed to reason in my comment but I could have easily appealed to evidence.
The historical provenance for section 132 having been read to the high counsel on August 12th, 1843 is extremely strong. Even those who weren’t later Brighamites in that meeting agreed that it was regarding the doctrine of plural marriage. We have William Clayton’s journal attesting to it. The Nauvoo Expositor uses language clearly quoted from the revelation. Is it any wonder why it was so secretive? It sparked the match that lit the flame of Joseph’s martyrdom.
The polygamy deniers are setting themselves up for a major case of cognitive dissonance and likely crumbling of their faith when they learn the truth because of their unwillingness to conceive that despite their opposition and understandable distaste for it God has indeed sanctioned the practice in times past for reasons known only to him.
In throwing Brigham Young under the bus they by extension deny the authority of our current prophet (understandably btw if you are Community of Christ but I digress as their accredited historians now acknowledge Joseph as having taught and practiced it).
Rebekah Griffins just responded to me on her last video. I asked her if polygamy was ever discussed in the minutes of the council of 50 meetings. She said no. Not during JS lifetime.
Thank you for your research.
May I suggest Areal font and not times new roman? The font is hard to read
Heber didn’t say he took 40 wives without Vilate knowing. You made that claim but that’s not what he said. We know he married Sarah Noon before Vilate received a witness of plural marriage. I’m not sure we know how many he married prior to her knowing about them. He simply says many.
Love your videos. Why do you call your channel "Still Mormon"?
Watch the first episode. There is good in the church.
@@susanjacobson9461 do you mean this one? ruclips.net/video/r_c6ja7iJlA/видео.html
if so I guess I still don't understand the name. Is this a jab on the fact that the current LDS church demonizing the term Mormon?
@@susanjacobson9461 but I still don’t understand why the name….
@@SummitSecrets because there is enough good and truth in the church that causes him to want to remain. Him and many others.
I regard the name Mormon the way Joseph Smith did: as a philosophy that embraces all truth. I explain this in the first episode.
Couple of things:
1 - What was the catalyst that lead to polygamy being discussed in the Church? It was prior to Smith’s death as he addressed it multiple times (being against it), but why was it even such a massive discussion point?
2 - If it was so well known that Smith practiced polygamy, what was the reason for all of the affidavits? Why were so many Brighamites obsessed with getting g affidavits about Smith’s polygamy, unless it was to steer a false narrative to justify their sin?
I would recommend, if you haven't going back and watching the episodes from the beginning. You'll get the answer to #1.
The reason for the affidavits was multifaceted but basically because Joseph's sons had come on missions to Utah to reclaim people to the original teachings of their father. One of the main things they taught was that Joseph Smith the prophet was never involved in polygamy and that it was a false doctrine. They were so successful in converting hundreds of LDS that the Brighamites got very worried. That and the federal gov. esp. the REp. Party declared polygamy one of the 'twin barbarisms" they swore to eradicate next to slavery. All of the pressure spooked Brigham and his insiders. They began to speak very harshly against Emma, Hyrum and trying everyting they could to implicate JS in the practice. The affidavits came out not long after and a long campaign began to "Prove" that it all came from JS. The question is--since there is no proof during JS life (and I'm showing categorically that there was not, but the opposite, he waged a long war against it) then are the testimonies of these people credible. Like I showed with Augusta Cobb...there is a MAJOR crediblity issue with Brigham and those that followed him.
I don't necessarily agree with many of the conclusions here, but I do appreciate the efforts that are bwing made to shwd more light on the beginnigs of polygamy in the church. Augusta Cobb's letter is especially interesting. However, I suspect that it hasnt been widely discussed up to this point because it couid just as easily be used to cast Joseph in a negative light as it does Brigham.
You can cast anything in a negative light when you take it out of context. What I did was to put it IN context.