I've been playing 40k off and on since Rogue Trader and I appreciate your work on CSM so I can figure out a well balanced army for my Black Legion. I thank you and may Khorn bless thee with rivers of blood and skulls by the billions!
I'd love to see a (quick 'n short) review for the other special characters CSM have - Fabulous Bill, Haarken, Lucias & whoever else I'm forgetting haha. Fab. Bill gets shat on a lot but for 90pt I think he's actually pretty fair. Just tricky to bring him in a comp list :P
Very nice summary and some additional points for food of thought as usual, thanks a lot for that. I have one point though that I would like to address, sorry that it will be a bit of a longer one but I am curious on how you see that thing: I initially was on the same page as you concerning Abby blocking specific relics from a different legion, however, I have recently encountered some very interesting justification that legion specific relics are actually legit. It basically revolves around the notion that on page 77 in the book the legion specific relics section basically speaks about the old free relic. Let's say you play EC, you need an EC WL to be able to choose your free relic to be an EC one, so Abby would prevent that. That is only for the free relic from your warlord though, basically an exchange for the basic chaos relic as outlined on the top of the relics page. On the left of the same page, it clearly says that once you select a Legion, you get access to their WLTs, Relics and Stratagems. If you look in the stratagem section under "Gifts of Chaos", it says you can get an additional relic if you have a traitoris astartes WL (Abby would be fine for that) if it is a relic that they can have. A non-named character from a legion should thus, if he has the correct weapon option required, take a legion specific relic with the strat even though Abby doesn't have the legion trait per se. So in essence the extra relics would be possible to take as EC, only the one "free" relic of Nachmund would have to be a chaos relic if Abby is your WL. It gets better if you look at the Nephilim book and the new "free" relic strat. That is written so freely (give a non-named character in your army a relic that he can take), that you can even give a CKs relic to a CK character although Abby is the WL (they can't get extra stratagems though as their Relic strat is still linked to a CK warlord and not superseeded by the new wording in the Nephilim book). So for the EC example, the only stipulation is now in Nephilim times that you have to give a character a relic that he can have. Only weakpoint of the argument is if you say that the sentence about the free relic "you can give one relic to a legion character" of p77 would prevent you from ever having access to the legion relics if your WL is not from that specific legion (which is mentioned on the same page in the second paragraph on the left). I am not having Abby in my list thus far, but would be curious how you see that rules interpretation. I think it is biggest for TS/CK/DG, as they can still take one relic in Nephilim times which for example in a Wardogs plus Abby list is the only one you'll need (helm of dogs) and is pretty clearly covered by the new strat in the Nephilim book.
Very interesting perspective. It wouldn't be GW if you didn't need a law degree to comprehend the rule lol. I think we will need an FAQ as the common interpretation is that he blocks Legion Relics, you make a strong case but good luck arguing it with every TO lol
Nice one. I'm pretty much exclusively Emperor's Children. Pretty much all my lists have a Disco Lord or Daemon Prince as top dog, with a couple of Masters of Possession doing their thing. Abaddon seems like a massive points pit, especially with the Mark of Slaanesh tax slapped on everything.
@@MetalMosher446 Yes, I know. I wasn't referring to Abaddon, himself. I meant the rest of my army is saddled with the Mark tax, to the tune of about 100 points or so. I think I'd be better off spending that 300, elsewhere.
I appreciate you laying out the different uses for Abbadon. The model's amazing and so are his new rules. I still have a big mental block for putting him in anything but a Black Legion list. I think the writers only did this because they know they should've given us Kor Phaeron, Talos, Honsou and Barban Falk.
I´m getting a black legion army together and got 1k points so far with the combat patrol and abaddon and master of possession, but i´m not sure what i should do for the other points (with marks and weapon choices) and i would like some feedback/tips. List #1 (patrol + supreme command) HQs: Abaddon - Dark Apostle - Master of Possession Troops: 2x 5 Legionaries Elite: 10 Terminators - Helbrute Fast Attack: 2 Venomcrawlers Heavy Support: 5 Havocs - 3 Obliterators Flyer: 1 Heldrake 1885 points List #2 (patrol +supreme command) HQs: Abaddon - Dark Apostle - Master of Possession Troops: 2x 10 Legionaries Elites: 10 Terminators - Helbrute Fast Attack: 1 Venomcrawler Heavy Support: 5Havocs - 2 Obliterators Transport: 2 Chaos Rhinos 1865 points I kept all units with basic weapons (no costs) + no marks for now so i got a lot of points spare to dedicate marks and upgrade weapons. I assume getting icons and a mark on the legionaries, a mark on the terminators/hqs, but just dont know which ones i should pick.
nice video, very informative. Suppose you are running him in CoB, with what would you replace him with? I am currently running a build w/o bikes.. just add a patrol with a DA and fill up with bikes?
Great vid as usual! Would love your thoughts on a 500 pts Emperors Children crusade list I am brewing. Running 10 chosen w the black rune and a 5man squad of legionaries w a psyker. Cant decide if I want MoP or Dark Apostle as my HQ though. MoP seems really good but illusory supplication and the ability to advance and charge from Dark Apostle also seems nice, especially since the chosen are kinda slow moving.
Doesn't Abbadon in a supreme command detatchment not count as a Black legion detachment, therefore giving you access to black legion strats in an Emperor's children army? I'm not sure if it meets the criteria of a legion detatchment though
Please include a fully buffed offensive profile next time. There are really durable units out there that totally can tank him and if I have something like that I want to be able to quickly calculate how bad it might get.
Great vidéo Again ! I dont understand the part about relics or warlord trait hendaye you pick Abaddon. For example uf you pick Abaddon in suprem command he is your warlord that mean in my other detachment like word bearer i Cant take relic or warlord trait Who comme from word bearer?
If you take Abbadon he has to be the Warlord and he's locked to black legion. Does this stop me taking Word Bearer WT and Relics in a word bearer detachment? The codex says if your warlord is a word bearer you can have the word bearer trait and relics.
What do you think of teleporting him in with the veilbreaker plate after he uses his command phase buff? I know you lose out on the auras, but it may help get him into battle and you could position him near another unit that deep struck with a second turn teleport to have them get 8'' charges.
Not bad at all. I like a Tzeentch Terminator Sorcerer with vielbreaker who Yeets your Terminators into the center of the table and then does Warp ritual
@@BlogForTheBloodGod your a legend bro ‘ love your content ‘ I am just getting into 40K . Your vid’s are unreal 🤟 got any suggestions for a beginner 500pt army ? I ordered the new csm combat patrol and codex ! What legion ya reckon will suit that box !
@@bradleykey2288 my advice would be to create your own colour scheme and warband. That way you can use whichever rule set you feel at any particular time
Would love a masterclass on black legion
Agreed!!
I have a Battle Report coming out soon, then an alpha legion masterclass, then black legion, then word bearers
Yes please
Awesome! Most useful channel I’ve ever found. Thank you
I've been playing 40k off and on since Rogue Trader and I appreciate your work on CSM so I can figure out a well balanced army for my Black Legion. I thank you and may Khorn bless thee with rivers of blood and skulls by the billions!
I'd love to see a (quick 'n short) review for the other special characters CSM have - Fabulous Bill, Haarken, Lucias & whoever else I'm forgetting haha. Fab. Bill gets shat on a lot but for 90pt I think he's actually pretty fair. Just tricky to bring him in a comp list :P
Awesome vid Dean!
Thanks mate
Very nice summary and some additional points for food of thought as usual, thanks a lot for that. I have one point though that I would like to address, sorry that it will be a bit of a longer one but I am curious on how you see that thing:
I initially was on the same page as you concerning Abby blocking specific relics from a different legion, however, I have recently encountered some very interesting justification that legion specific relics are actually legit.
It basically revolves around the notion that on page 77 in the book the legion specific relics section basically speaks about the old free relic. Let's say you play EC, you need an EC WL to be able to choose your free relic to be an EC one, so Abby would prevent that. That is only for the free relic from your warlord though, basically an exchange for the basic chaos relic as outlined on the top of the relics page. On the left of the same page, it clearly says that once you select a Legion, you get access to their WLTs, Relics and Stratagems. If you look in the stratagem section under "Gifts of Chaos", it says you can get an additional relic if you have a traitoris astartes WL (Abby would be fine for that) if it is a relic that they can have. A non-named character from a legion should thus, if he has the correct weapon option required, take a legion specific relic with the strat even though Abby doesn't have the legion trait per se. So in essence the extra relics would be possible to take as EC, only the one "free" relic of Nachmund would have to be a chaos relic if Abby is your WL.
It gets better if you look at the Nephilim book and the new "free" relic strat. That is written so freely (give a non-named character in your army a relic that he can take), that you can even give a CKs relic to a CK character although Abby is the WL (they can't get extra stratagems though as their Relic strat is still linked to a CK warlord and not superseeded by the new wording in the Nephilim book). So for the EC example, the only stipulation is now in Nephilim times that you have to give a character a relic that he can have.
Only weakpoint of the argument is if you say that the sentence about the free relic "you can give one relic to a legion character" of p77 would prevent you from ever having access to the legion relics if your WL is not from that specific legion (which is mentioned on the same page in the second paragraph on the left).
I am not having Abby in my list thus far, but would be curious how you see that rules interpretation. I think it is biggest for TS/CK/DG, as they can still take one relic in Nephilim times which for example in a Wardogs plus Abby list is the only one you'll need (helm of dogs) and is pretty clearly covered by the new strat in the Nephilim book.
Very interesting perspective. It wouldn't be GW if you didn't need a law degree to comprehend the rule lol.
I think we will need an FAQ as the common interpretation is that he blocks Legion Relics, you make a strong case but good luck arguing it with every TO lol
Nice one. I'm pretty much exclusively Emperor's Children. Pretty much all my lists have a Disco Lord or Daemon Prince as top dog, with a couple of Masters of Possession doing their thing. Abaddon seems like a massive points pit, especially with the Mark of Slaanesh tax slapped on everything.
He doesn't cost extra 15pts for mark of Slaanesh since he already has all four marks baked into his datasheet
@@MetalMosher446 Yes, I know. I wasn't referring to Abaddon, himself. I meant the rest of my army is saddled with the Mark tax, to the tune of about 100 points or so. I think I'd be better off spending that 300, elsewhere.
Yeah he is very expensive, as are a lot of Chaos units. I still think he is worth it tho
Anthony Vanella is using him to his maximum in his EC list. He won an 8 round GT with abaddon in his list
Great video. Lots of good tactics here
Thanks mate, hope it helps
Nice vid, would love to see more like this and further deep dive on Abaddon. :)
Really enjoyed this! Keep it up
Thanks mate, I follow your content too, perhaps we should do a collab some time
@@BlogForTheBloodGod thanks man, yeah would love to
I appreciate you laying out the different uses for Abbadon. The model's amazing and so are his new rules. I still have a big mental block for putting him in anything but a Black Legion list. I think the writers only did this because they know they should've given us Kor Phaeron, Talos, Honsou and Barban Falk.
Abaddon is just an ego maniac who goes where he wants and expects everyone to do what he says
@@BlogForTheBloodGod 😆 totally.
I´m getting a black legion army together and got 1k points so far with the combat patrol and abaddon and master of possession, but i´m not sure what i should do for the other points (with marks and weapon choices) and i would like some feedback/tips.
List #1 (patrol + supreme command)
HQs: Abaddon - Dark Apostle - Master of Possession
Troops: 2x 5 Legionaries
Elite: 10 Terminators - Helbrute
Fast Attack: 2 Venomcrawlers
Heavy Support: 5 Havocs - 3 Obliterators
Flyer: 1 Heldrake
1885 points
List #2 (patrol +supreme command)
HQs: Abaddon - Dark Apostle - Master of Possession
Troops: 2x 10 Legionaries
Elites: 10 Terminators - Helbrute
Fast Attack: 1 Venomcrawler
Heavy Support: 5Havocs - 2 Obliterators
Transport: 2 Chaos Rhinos
1865 points
I kept all units with basic weapons (no costs) + no marks for now so i got a lot of points spare to dedicate marks and upgrade weapons.
I assume getting icons and a mark on the legionaries, a mark on the terminators/hqs, but just dont know which ones i should pick.
I offer more detailed list advice etc over on my Patreon. $1 per month is all it costs :)
Models on the table like your khorne berserkers video!
Abby gives +1 to his charge. He doesn’t get it himself
hello nice sharing
nice video, very informative. Suppose you are running him in CoB, with what would you replace him with? I am currently running a build w/o bikes.. just add a patrol with a DA and fill up with bikes?
Bikes in COB are very good
@@BlogForTheBloodGod just keep them in the same detachment or would you add another detachment?
Great video!
Thanks for the video, some good ideas.
Thanks mate
Great vid as usual!
Would love your thoughts on a 500 pts Emperors Children crusade list I am brewing. Running 10 chosen w the black rune and a 5man squad of legionaries w a psyker. Cant decide if I want MoP or Dark Apostle as my HQ though. MoP seems really good but illusory supplication and the ability to advance and charge from Dark Apostle also seems nice, especially since the chosen are kinda slow moving.
MoP is bae
Ok thx
Doesn't Abbadon in a supreme command detatchment not count as a Black legion detachment, therefore giving you access to black legion strats in an Emperor's children army? I'm not sure if it meets the criteria of a legion detatchment though
I had this exact same question. Have you found the answer yet?
@@joshsowers260 it sounds like the community is split, I've DMed tournament organizers and 3/4 said abbadon gets his strats
Ooo! Sure would be good to see if I can oneshot the Warmaster.
Please include a fully buffed offensive profile next time. There are really durable units out there that totally can tank him and if I have something like that I want to be able to quickly calculate how bad it might get.
Great video and very useful.
I think Abaddon can fall back and charge with Unrelenting Onslaught (Black Legion Stratagem)
2CP is pretty pricy, forcing your opponent to spend that hurts
Great vidéo Again ! I dont understand the part about relics or warlord trait hendaye you pick Abaddon. For example uf you pick Abaddon in suprem command he is your warlord that mean in my other detachment like word bearer i Cant take relic or warlord trait Who comme from word bearer?
Correct, because to unlock the Word Bearers relics you need a word bearer warlord
If you take Abbadon he has to be the Warlord and he's locked to black legion. Does this stop me taking Word Bearer WT and Relics in a word bearer detachment? The codex says if your warlord is a word bearer you can have the word bearer trait and relics.
What do you think of teleporting him in with the veilbreaker plate after he uses his command phase buff? I know you lose out on the auras, but it may help get him into battle and you could position him near another unit that deep struck with a second turn teleport to have them get 8'' charges.
Not bad at all. I like a Tzeentch Terminator Sorcerer with vielbreaker who Yeets your Terminators into the center of the table and then does Warp ritual
plz do more abadon stuff plz
Just dropped a Battle Report with him heavily featured
Have you found any way to get him where he needs better? Dreadclaw/rhino, drill etc
Advance and charge seems to work fine.
What are your thoughts on obliterators? Is it worth maxing out 3 squads of 3?
I wrote a pretty spicy Iron Warriors list that does exactly that
@@BlogForTheBloodGod have you had a chance to run it yet?
Abaddon in a knight army as the warlord as supreme command. Can i still use his strats?
I believe so
What is the Abaddon heroic intervention trick?
Place him in the center of an Objective and your opponent can't touch it without him heroicly intervening into them
@@BlogForTheBloodGod Yolo
Is this info still usefull in the current edition?
Not particularly unfortunate
What abt taking him in a world eater bezerkers army
Very strong, you can pair his +1 to charge aura with Violent Urgency to get +2 to your charges
Oonga boonga 😅
He is a bit of an oonga boonga
@@BlogForTheBloodGod your a legend bro ‘ love your content ‘ I am just getting into 40K . Your vid’s are unreal 🤟 got any suggestions for a beginner 500pt army ? I ordered the new csm combat patrol and codex ! What legion ya reckon will suit that box !
@@bradleykey2288 my advice would be to create your own colour scheme and warband. That way you can use whichever rule set you feel at any particular time
@@BlogForTheBloodGod thanks mate really appreciate the reply 👍 definitely will be adding a oonga boonga aswell 😂
@@bradleykey2288 never leave home without an ooonga boonga.... rookie mistake, you hate to see it
Fantastic video!