I'm an INT/FJ 5W6. I find your conceptualization of the spiritualized INFJ fascinating. I've been very adaptive-submissive historically. At 42 I experienced a spontaneous kundalini awakening and what can only be described as a mystical and complete ego death (luckily the direct experience only lasted a few seconds, I think). Yeah, I think you're on to something.
Hey Ren, I think I told you my Enneagram, but just in case I didn't, I'm a 4w5 (The Bohemian). Ironically, Johan Liebert is also a 4w5, too. (Fortunately for everyone, I'm too "lazy" to do what he did lmao). There's no doubt I'm a Solipsistic INFJ. I'm too stubborn in my own personal beliefs, morals, etc that I wont budge. Though of course I'll respect other peoples perspectives of those things if they share it to me but thats just it. Here are some questions: 1) Why is enneagram 4 the most common for INFJs? 2) Is there some special symbology/different role of the INFJ soldier in the 16personality group? (I get the child, woman and old man in the group but the INFJ soldier stood out to me the most). 3) Why is it hard for an INFJ to answer the "what is your biggest strengths and weaknesses?" Question? (This could be a me issue thing, but I always blank out when I'm asked this and I spiral a bit). 4) What would make another type cut ties with an INFJ first? 5) why do INFJs need to have holistic minds? 6) Why do people that we know always seek us out when we are already doing something else? Why demand to be near us all the time? Sorry for the huge influx of questions, Ren. I'm pretty sure out of all the INFJs you met, I'm the most exhausting lmao 😂. Hope your day is swell like always. 💜🫡
I think that the spiritualized INFJ captures what it’s like to be at Level 1-3 of the Levels of Development (Riso/Hudson) for either only the Enneagram 6 or of any possible Enneagram type (minus 378). Most likely it captures Level 1 but perhaps I could picture this subtype having some footprints into Level 2 and even Level 3 at times. The key here is to separate the ‘vertical’ typology (Growth/Development vs. lack of growth) from the traditional ‘horizontal’ Enneagram typology. I definitely think that both compliant and solipsistic INFJs are at Level 4 and lower for any of the non-378 types. Beyond this, your analysis about this sounds extremely reasonable. I very much agree with you!
I believe that integrious people over time can adopt certain traits assigned to other enneagram types as a way of navigating situations life presents us. That doesn't mean you lose your original enneagram type, you still have that footprint, it just merely indicates integrity. People of the lie (i.e. non integrious people and the majority of human beings) are more fitting to the structure(s) of the enneagram.
I'd like to see more of your opinions about those enneagram types that "don't fit into" the description of Infj. I've known quite a few 3w2 Infjs. I myself have strong 8's traits, tritype 584, makes me stand out a lot like an Intj.
Same, 6w5. Recently got into it, from previous mention on this channel. Had heard the word, but was unaware it was another, with somewhat 'ancient origins, personality map system.
I am first to admit I am not well versed in Enneagrams. I have done a few tests and got 6w5 every time. I would consider myself spiritualised by your terminology. I am already older and I am very comfortable with my Ni vision and the external reality. But I still get enneagram 6. I am not anxious. Sure when I was younger but not for a really long time anymore. The enneagram test questions asked are like: do I think what could go wrong etc. I still do. But it is not out of anxiety, it is just a side-effect of projecting the future scenarios. I always consider what could go wrong and then I can counter or avoid every problem. What is the best course of action. I feel prepared and confident, not anxious or scared. Over the years I have learned to trust my vision. Maybe I am not a 6 but my high preparedness gives the result? The description of 6 comes of very scared of everything and you really can project the future and troubleshoot without the anxiety part. Many of the questions handle things like do you think extensively the future and possible scenarios. As INFJs don’t we all? Edit: Yes, I value security very highly. I make carefully planned “safe” decisions and avoid uncertainty for the sake of “excitement “ only . Still not out of fear, but because in my experience it gives the most desirable outcome.
I am an INFJ type 5 wing 4 sexual subtype. I’m an only child and my type 3 father had a bad temper and my type 6 mother was very much someone who, regardless if I wasn’t in the wrong, would encourage me to just be quiet for the sake of not angering my dad. I feel as though the submissive, people pleasing, and serial apologizing aspects of myself are tied to that. I was also severely OCD practically since birth, I would walk on my knees and elbows to avoid touching the ground and lick my hands to clean them when I was very young. I was put on Prozac at age 7 and was on it until I was 18 (when I ‘cured’ myself). I think having severe OCD though my entire adolescent life made the idea of having my internal world separate from my external world seem so normal to me. I spent my life hiding my OCD thoughts/feelings/‘craziness’ from everyone on a daily basis in order to fit into society, so although I was submissive, I was also very comfortable with being eclectic or odd. I did, however, spend the first 30-ish years of my life feeling as though there were two completely different people in me. One, that everyone I ever met would see, was jovial, funny, happy, smiling, etc. and the other was a highly intellectual observer who was deeply affected by the emotions of others. Before I knew what and INFJ was, I never told a soul I could feel peoples’ feelings because I knew that sounded either crazy or like a pretentious fake hippy. Thankfully, for the last 3 years (33 years old now), I’ve been able to show the internal side of myself to someone for the first time in my entire life, and my goodness has it improved every aspect of myself. I had no idea how much faster you could learn or philosophize by talking about your thoughts out loud lol. In summary (ha) I would say I have underlying submissive traits engrained from childhood but I’m currently trying to figure out the real history of ‘everything’ and the ‘truth’ of life…so….I’d say I’m riding around in the cusp of solipsistic and early spiritualized. 🤌
I am a 38 yrs old, female, INFJ, and my enneagram changes every time I take the test. I have tested as a 9, 1, 4, and 5. Because of this, I do not bother with enneagram.
I'm a type 1 INFJ. Not sure about the wing as I see myself in both. I've gone through the people-pleaser stage. I definitely didn't grow up in a healthy environment, so I'm the secure type. So I have to be one of the other two by your classification.
I wonder if the adaptive-submissive/compliance INFJ fits well with descriptions of type 9s. Given that 9s are described as suppressing themselves for the sake of group unity, it seems an apt comparison. Any thoughts?
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I'm an INT/FJ 5W6. I find your conceptualization of the spiritualized INFJ fascinating. I've been very adaptive-submissive historically. At 42 I experienced a spontaneous kundalini awakening and what can only be described as a mystical and complete ego death (luckily the direct experience only lasted a few seconds, I think).
Yeah, I think you're on to something.
I am an INFJ 6 and happy to hear your discussion.
Glad to hear it!
Just bought your book on Kindle, it was exactly what I didn't know I was looking for, thank you!!!
That's fantastic, I can't wait to hear your thoughts.
Hey Ren,
I think I told you my Enneagram, but just in case I didn't, I'm a 4w5 (The Bohemian). Ironically, Johan Liebert is also a 4w5, too. (Fortunately for everyone, I'm too "lazy" to do what he did lmao).
There's no doubt I'm a Solipsistic INFJ. I'm too stubborn in my own personal beliefs, morals, etc that I wont budge. Though of course I'll respect other peoples perspectives of those things if they share it to me but thats just it.
Here are some questions:
1) Why is enneagram 4 the most common for INFJs?
2) Is there some special symbology/different role of the INFJ soldier in the 16personality group? (I get the child, woman and old man in the group but the INFJ soldier stood out to me the most).
3) Why is it hard for an INFJ to answer the "what is your biggest strengths and weaknesses?" Question? (This could be a me issue thing, but I always blank out when I'm asked this and I spiral a bit).
4) What would make another type cut ties with an INFJ first?
5) why do INFJs need to have holistic minds?
6) Why do people that we know always seek us out when we are already doing something else? Why demand to be near us all the time?
Sorry for the huge influx of questions, Ren. I'm pretty sure out of all the INFJs you met, I'm the most exhausting lmao 😂.
Hope your day is swell like always. 💜🫡
I think that the spiritualized INFJ captures what it’s like to be at Level 1-3 of the Levels of Development (Riso/Hudson) for either only the Enneagram 6 or of any possible Enneagram type (minus 378). Most likely it captures Level 1 but perhaps I could picture this subtype having some footprints into Level 2 and even Level 3 at times.
The key here is to separate the ‘vertical’ typology (Growth/Development vs. lack of growth) from the traditional ‘horizontal’ Enneagram typology.
I definitely think that both compliant and solipsistic INFJs are at Level 4 and lower for any of the non-378 types.
Beyond this, your analysis about this sounds extremely reasonable. I very much agree with you!
BTW, I am a compliant INFJ (with moments of being spiritualized) who is an Enneagram 6.
I believe that integrious people over time can adopt certain traits assigned to other enneagram types as a way of navigating situations life presents us. That doesn't mean you lose your original enneagram type, you still have that footprint, it just merely indicates integrity. People of the lie (i.e. non integrious people and the majority of human beings) are more fitting to the structure(s) of the enneagram.
I'd like to see more of your opinions about those enneagram types that "don't fit into" the description of Infj. I've known quite a few 3w2 Infjs. I myself have strong 8's traits, tritype 584, makes me stand out a lot like an Intj.
I am a 6w5. Strong desire for security and a few meaningful close relations.
Same, 6w5.
Recently got into it, from previous mention on this channel.
Had heard the word, but was unaware it was another, with somewhat 'ancient origins, personality map system.
My exact same enneagram type as well.
I am first to admit I am not well versed in Enneagrams. I have done a few tests and got 6w5 every time. I would consider myself spiritualised by your terminology. I am already older and I am very comfortable with my Ni vision and the external reality. But I still get enneagram 6.
I am not anxious. Sure when I was younger but not for a really long time anymore. The enneagram test questions asked are like: do I think what could go wrong etc. I still do. But it is not out of anxiety, it is just a side-effect of projecting the future scenarios. I always consider what could go wrong and then I can counter or avoid every problem. What is the best course of action. I feel prepared and confident, not anxious or scared. Over the years I have learned to trust my vision. Maybe I am not a 6 but my high preparedness gives the result? The description of 6 comes of very scared of everything and you really can project the future and troubleshoot without the anxiety part. Many of the questions handle things like do you think extensively the future and possible scenarios. As INFJs don’t we all?
Edit: Yes, I value security very highly. I make carefully planned “safe” decisions and avoid uncertainty for the sake of “excitement “ only . Still not out of fear, but because in my experience it gives the most desirable outcome.
I am an INFJ type 5 wing 4 sexual subtype.
I’m an only child and my type 3 father had a bad temper and my type 6 mother was very much someone who, regardless if I wasn’t in the wrong, would encourage me to just be quiet for the sake of not angering my dad. I feel as though the submissive, people pleasing, and serial apologizing aspects of myself are tied to that.
I was also severely OCD practically since birth, I would walk on my knees and elbows to avoid touching the ground and lick my hands to clean them when I was very young. I was put on Prozac at age 7 and was on it until I was 18 (when I ‘cured’ myself). I think having severe OCD though my entire adolescent life made the idea of having my internal world separate from my external world seem so normal to me. I spent my life hiding my OCD thoughts/feelings/‘craziness’ from everyone on a daily basis in order to fit into society, so although I was submissive, I was also very comfortable with being eclectic or odd.
I did, however, spend the first 30-ish years of my life feeling as though there were two completely different people in me. One, that everyone I ever met would see, was jovial, funny, happy, smiling, etc. and the other was a highly intellectual observer who was deeply affected by the emotions of others. Before I knew what and INFJ was, I never told a soul I could feel peoples’ feelings because I knew that sounded either crazy or like a pretentious fake hippy.
Thankfully, for the last 3 years (33 years old now), I’ve been able to show the internal side of myself to someone for the first time in my entire life, and my goodness has it improved every aspect of myself. I had no idea how much faster you could learn or philosophize by talking about your thoughts out loud lol.
In summary (ha) I would say I have underlying submissive traits engrained from childhood but I’m currently trying to figure out the real history of ‘everything’ and the ‘truth’ of life…so….I’d say I’m riding around in the cusp of solipsistic and early spiritualized. 🤌
I am a 38 yrs old, female, INFJ, and my enneagram changes every time I take the test. I have tested as a 9, 1, 4, and 5. Because of this, I do not bother with enneagram.
I'm a type 1 INFJ. Not sure about the wing as I see myself in both.
I've gone through the people-pleaser stage. I definitely didn't grow up in a healthy environment, so I'm the secure type. So I have to be one of the other two by your classification.
I wonder if the adaptive-submissive/compliance INFJ fits well with descriptions of type 9s. Given that 9s are described as suppressing themselves for the sake of group unity, it seems an apt comparison. Any thoughts?
I am a type E9W1 INFJ, in highschool I considered myself to be a compliant type. This however is not the case now I'm a bit older and wiser.
Hello I would like to support you, but I can't find a paid subscribtion or donation method
Hi Metallicazor, I am grateful for this. Would you consider Patreon support? The link is here: www.patreon.com/c/renaudcontini
Another option is the one-off paypal donation page: paypal.me/renaudcontini
Thanks!!!