Oxalates cause Cancer. [Science Explained]
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2023
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Reference:
[1] Castellaro AM, Tonda A, Cejas HH, et al. Oxalate induces breast cancer. BMC Cancer. 2015;15:761. Published 2015 Oct 22. doi:10.1186/s12885-015-1747-2
Full Analysis: • Do Oxalates, inherentl...
*******CRITIQUES, RULES, AND NOTES*******
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#oxalates #cancerrisk #cancer
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*2 NOTES & 2 AMENDMENTS:*
AMENDMENT:
1. @ibnsalah3932 pointed out that HEK293 cells have some debate on the type of cell they actually are, because they express neuronal proteins. This, then, creates confusion on if they are kidney cells or neuronal cells. Either way, I don't think it's anything that changes the interpretation of the data here, because neuronal cells are still different from breast cells, but it's still something to point out. Thank you for the correction
@ibnsalah3932 !
References:
Stepanenko AA, Dmitrenko VV. HEK293 in cell biology and cancer research: phenotype, karyotype, tumorigenicity, and stress-induced genome-phenotype evolution. Gene. 2015;569(2):182-190. doi:10.1016/j.gene.2015.05.065
Shaw G, Morse S, Ararat M, Graham FL. Preferential transformation of human neuronal cells by human adenoviruses and the origin of HEK 293 cells. FASEB J. 2002;16(8):869-871. doi:10.1096/fj.01-0995fje
2. @mattermat1925 pointed out that @1:18 - the image shows oxaloacetate, instead of oxalates - they look similar, but that's an incorrect spelling - it should read 'oxalate' or 'oxalic acid', not oxaloacetate. Thank you for the correction @mattermat1925.
2 NOTES:
1. I expect to create more content looking at cancer risk, so this is preliminary, but if we track soy consumption (one of the highest oxalate containing foods) and breast cancer - there is a slightly *reduced* risk (see reference) with increasing soy intake. I realize this is association, but if oxalates have such tremendous pro-cancerous effects, we wouldn't see an inverse relationship, even by correlation. It's possible the overall effect of the diet overcomes any *potential* negative effects of oxalates in regard to cancer. Like I said, we need more data.
Trock BJ, Hilakivi-Clarke L, Clarke R. Meta-analysis of soy intake and breast cancer risk. J Natl Cancer Inst. 2006;98(7):459-471. doi:10.1093/jnci/djj102
2. @andybryant3052 asked if the mice were female, which is an important detail I failed to mention - the answer is yes, they were all female. To Andy's point, as well, it may matter in respect to menopause, as well. Great point.
I think what’s so hard to decipher is - does the soy HELP or was it simply the avoidance of the animal protein sources, ya know? Like, are there alternatives even better than spy or no?
An excellent point - I don't know.
Regarding oxalates rhubarb, spinach and mangold (chard) are actually the highest in oxalate. Some herbs are also very high.
Soy is actually quite low in oxalates compared to these foods. Also it's hard to talk about soy in general, because of the many different forms. At least isoflavones content varies wildly between e.g. soy protein isolate and textured soy protein.
Just my luck. I've just discovered the pleasure of eating ruccola and cheese sandwiches. Yes, I'm female...
I cannot speak to breast cancer but I had an high oxalate diet and my ankle disintegrated at the point of highest pressure due to that diet, however I should add I was also experiencing gut/ microbiota issues, most likely some level of insulin resistance, developed a skin cancer, plantar fasciitis etc... Going carnivore fixed ALL of this. But I believe it furthers my hypothesis that diet is meant to vary with the seasons. Periods of keto\ carnivore / fasting over winter prepares and repairs the intestinal wall, cells, mitochondria for the onslaught of plant material and accompanying compounds\ toxins etc.. coming at them in the summer months.
Note to self: Do not inject oxalates into my immunocompromised pet mouse.
Ah thanks for the reminder. I have to stop doing this to my pets
Don't tll me what to do with my aids mouse
I gotta put a note above my rat cage to remind myself of this 🤦🏼♂️ I keep doing this myself!
@@yodamaster757 😀
Oh good I thought I missed something 😊
If you want to save yourself 16 minutes, he says after 15 min, "I don't see this study as proof that oxalates cause cancer."
be paticient grasshopper .
I want to experience the 16 minutes because I think the content is dope af.
Thank you
I predict this will be yet another case where undue focus on single molecules and single mechanisms gets drowned out by the overall effect of the food.
Agreed.
Sadly, that is impossible this time. Any nutrients you get from any vegetable will be cooked into oblivion before you eat it. You cannot absorb nutrients from vegetables without also ingesting plant toxins. The nutritional effects of vegetables have been grossly overstated for the past 100 years. People have anthropologically always known that vegetables are only to be eaten when there is nothing else available. Instead of that understand, people treat vegetables like its some kind of holy food that has no side effects. It is less than surprising that vegetables cause cancer, because why wouldn't they? Plants do not want to get eaten any more than animals want to get eaten.
@@TM-cb2te This is so inaccurate it's hard to even know where to begin to start addressing this...
> Any nutrients you get from any vegetable will be cooked into oblivion before you eat it
False. This is so easy to verify scientifically as well.
> People have anthropologically always known that vegetables are only to be eaten when there is nothing else available
Just because people prefer to eat meat and similar if available doesn't mean that they would avoid vegetables if meat is available.
> It is less than surprising that vegetables cause cancer, because why wouldn't they?
Why would they? Cancer is usually a veeeery slow process. Evolution is much more likely to evolve for more immediate effects. Any cancer growth is likely a side effect that has negligible evolutionary effect for any plant species. Also, the correlation with meat consumption leading to cancer is generally much much higher than any plant foods.
@@TM-cb2teyes, and it will take at least 50 years before that wisdom has percolated into society. This is an oil tanker that responds very very slowly.
Well, to be honest, I know the term oxalate dumping for a few months only..
@@Ermude10oh dear, I especially like the last one.. Red meat is as dangerous as smoking sigarets, right?
The volume of things we don't know increases exponentially with everything that we learn. The more we learn, the more we realize we don't know.
So true.
I hope that this becomes the prevailing attitude.
@@joeistead Not likely. Most people find reality distasteful. 😥
THAT is wisdom. FEAR blocks wisdom. And one who has overcome fear sufficiently is led into all Truth, as has happened for me. Ready for Truth? Cancer is caused when normal cells abandon normal oxygen respiration and mutate in order to resparate semi-anaerobically due to a chronically acidic environment: ACIDOSIS. (Otto Warburg won the Nobel Prize for work in this area.) And this is why the cure has long been known - and has been EXPERIENCED - by a tiny minority of us: ALKALIZE THE BODY. This can be done with an alkaline-forming vegetable diet that includes RAW vegetables daily, and/or by simply ingesting a simple drink of baking soda diluted in water. (And its beneficial to both taste and effect to add pure lemon juice.) There you have it. But nowadays few know who to believe. I don't have that problem, which is why I have discovered much, beyond what you would dare to believe, I assure you. Elijah has returned, as prophesied, and testifies.
Just to be safe, I'm going to stop injecting oxalate into my chest. I'll find another way to bring up my lagging pecs.
Consuming oxalates orally is very different from injecting oxalates directly into the body. The 2 probably produce very different outcomes and results from each other.
Not necessarily, because oxalates starts by engesting oxalic acid, and can travel through the blood to various parts of the body. The oxalic acid combines with calcium to form oxalate crystals of different sizes. It is when these oxalate crystals are formed, they can wreak havoc on the body. Most kidney stones are a result of calcium oxalates. We know the acid can travel all through the body, even affecting the joints.
@@sidsnyder8043Oxalobacter and Lactobacillus in the gut help bind oxalates. A normal gut biome eliminates much of the oxalate found in food. Those most likely to develop kidney stones lack significant colonies of Oxalobacter and Lactobacillus.
@@sidsnyder8043 That has nothing to do with cancer or tumors. The biggest issue is leaky gut not taking care of oxalate. Our bodies will produce oxalates even if you don't eat it.
@@kroanosm617 Yes, our bodies make a small quantity of oxalates, but not to the degree one gets from eating plant foods, like spinach, sweet potatoes, and almonds. I never heard of anyone getting kidney stones that avoided eating plant foods. As I have never read a study or example of someone having any negative affects from naturally occurring oxalates in the body.As far as cancer and tumors go, I don't think we have enough evidence, positive or negative, about the relationship of oxalate crystals and their affects on cell damage.
eating them causes kidney stones and cancer, i stay far from plants and vegetables, they destroyed my health, i do paleo and i have no issues now
Ok, but all oxalates come with fiber in vegetables. Do they cross intestinal lining readily in its purest form or are led out of the body? Who is injecting pure oxalates in the blood? 💢💢💢
Exactly one of my critiques.
What ever we eat, is decomposed into the smaller molecules possible and fibers don’t stop that proses only slow it down, so, at the end you get oxalates in your blood.
I see so many people saying stuff like this... what if this and what if that... I say why risk it at all? From everything Ive managed to learn over the last 4 years we simply dont need to eat plants.
you dit each time you eat spinach :D
Oxalates absolutely do absorb into the blood stream, hence why people that are prone to kidney stones are recommended to avoid oxalates.
@5:06 ‘…is not in your cells to cause cancer.’ This is why I watch and support you Nic. How many on YT would either not know to clarify this or choose not to for clicks. A PhD friend in breast cancer researches would approve.
Look for Thomas Seyfried, great info and aproach
It’s “not in your cells” to inject crap that doesn’t belong there, into them. This “study” is faulty, as are so many absurd “studies” that pass for science. No real doctor or scientist would “approve” of this garbage “study.”
Unintentionally proving why “trusting the science” is a terrible idea.
Some things that puzzle me about this methodology of testing:
-use of mice with genetic lines predisposed to tumor development;
-direct injection of oxalates into tissue;
-what percentage of oxalates injected vs. reasonable normal and average dietary intake?
We're talking about possible risks of dietary intake by humans, right? Mixed with stomach acids, gut microflora processing...etc.
How comparable is any of this?
All good critiques. Hence why I wasn't that fazed, even if the title of study is scary.
It's similar with "meat causes cancer (in mice)". It has no relevance to humans.
Excellent questions!🎉
Correct….and an added note
Popeye eats spinach and doesn’t have cancer ..🤔but, I heard he puts Olive Oyl on his 🤦🏻♂
What about the human study that he also showed? That should be a concern, I would think.
Last year I was diagnosed with early psoriasis. I discovered that a smoothie i was drinking daily for nearly 3 years had ~900mg oxolates per smoothie (recommended DV is 50-100mg), I cut it out of my diet and did a few other lifestyle changes and I now have zero psoriasis patches. This analysis makes me curious about cellular division in psoriasis patients’ epidermis. Any thoughts or insights?
The bothersome things are A) in nature you’re not taking up oxalates directly through muscle tissue/blood supply - digestion is a chemical process. B) dosage/compounds. how did they determine the exact molar concentration and in what form to equal the digested blood serum form.
What I think would be more interesting is a study how oxalates influence the uptake of certain minerals like Ca, Mg or Fe in the intestines. This is a bigger concern to me than the risk of breast cancer. I don‘t know if this has already been done.
I know they can, at least a high levels, impair Ca absorption at least in primarily herbivorous reptiles. Granted these are animals with higher Ca requirements. Generally it's recommended to not make high oxalate greens be the base of the diet and to use low oxalate greens as the staple for animals like tortoises and bearded dragons.
Huge problem with mouse studies that vast majority do not lead to any meaningful/ true observations or interventions in humans
Oxalates is just one of many chemical defense substances present in plants
I used to have severe, painful oxalate dumps... Do not recommend eating them AT ALL, especially if you have any gut problems and increased permeability.
I used to have horrible gut issues until I stopped eating a high oxalate diet
I think "should really change the color of the sky" should become a thing.
I successfully trained myself to raise one eyebrow by simply holding one down while raising the other. I can’t remember how long it took (I was a teenager at the time and I’m now in my 60’s) but I don’t think it was very long, I didn’t have the patience. It’s a great way to project skepticism, keep trying!
haha. I did that too when a teen. I still can.
Same here. Turned it into an acting career
@@slimturnpike Congratulations, I didn’t take it that far, but it’s a great flex.
I did this too 😊
I trained myself too as a teenager. Now, at 59, I can easily raise my left eyebrow at will while keeping the right one down. It is a pity I did not train my other side to do the same, but I am appreciative of my younger self for taking the time to develop such an important ability lol
Appreciate your unbiased approach to these issues, thank you.
Thank you.
I think one thing to consider is that in practice oxalates don't come in isolation. Black beans, for example, are high in oxalates, but they come with many good nutrients (if Im not mistaken) that help combat cancer; i.e. the whole package might be meaningful. Just a thought.
Exactly...plants DO have good qualities in them and they want them for themselves ! They protect themselves from repeat predation with oxalates
Well, 100 grams of poison kill you immediately but 0,027 grams of poison daily will kill you in 10 years.
My theory is that the oxalates in black beans are expelled via the farting response and therefore harmless.
But they also significantly reduce zinc absorption.
@@Gengh13yes, and other minerals thanks to fytates 😘
Wow 109k subscribers 😮. Congratulations. I subscribed when you had less than 5k. You deserve 10 million for your work.
man you're such a legend. What would be an awesome idea for a video would be to cover what you consider to be the most optimal diet to consume in a day / week or month or whatever
I just can't get over, how complicated something as seemingly simple as diet is.
Truth is simple. Nature made foods: GOOD. Man-made "foods" that aren't really foods: BAD. Ready for Truth? Cancer is caused when normal cells abandon normal oxygen respiration and mutate in order to resparate semi-anaerobically due to a chronically acidic environment: ACIDOSIS. (Otto Warburg won the Nobel Prize for work in this area.) And this is why the cure has long been known - and has been EXPERIENCED - by a tiny minority of us: ALKALIZE THE BODY. This can be done with an alkaline-forming vegetable diet that includes RAW vegetables daily, and/or by simply ingesting a simple drink of baking soda diluted in water. (And its beneficial to both taste and effect to add pure lemon juice.) There you have it. But nowadays few know who to believe. I don't have that problem, which is why I have discovered much, beyond what you would dare to believe, I assure you. Elijah has returned, as prophesied, and testifies.
It's not complex, Humans have made it so in various attempts to cash in on nutrition.
In reality it's ridiculously simple: Eat what were were evolved to eat which, being obligate carnivores, is predominantly an animal product based diet. Avoid anything heavily processed or synthetic or that contains more than 1 ingredient. Lastly stop listening to people that have vested interests in making you believe nonsense based in religious zealotry like veganism
Wowwwww, my jaw DROPPED. Love the detail here, considering all variables. Great vid
Appreciate the clear explanations you give, thanks
I am following Sally K Norton's book Toxic Superfoods. Talks about oxalates in vegetables.
Is there a threshold she recommends? I eat a fair amount of these foods.
@@amperage8032 She recommends keeping below 150 mg of dietary oxalate intake.
Be cautious. Identify all the high oxalate foods in your diet and slowly reduce the amount of those foods. Be aware of the problem of oxalate dumping. If you totally eliminate all oxalates at once, it could be painful.
@amperage8032 look up a low oxalate diet. You don't want to fully stop due to what's called oxalate dumping which can be worse than the side effects of just eating too many oxalates
Here is a list of foods high in oxalates from highest to lowest:
1. Spinach
2. Rhubarb
3. Swiss chard
4. Beet greens
5. Beetroot
6. Cocoa powder
7. Sweet potatoes
8. Okra
9. Parsley
10. Purslane
11. Soy products (tofu, soy milk)
12. Nuts (such as almonds, cashews, and peanuts)
13. Wheat bran
14. Kiwi
15. Blackberries
16. Strawberries
17. Raspberries
18. Celery
19. Tea (black tea, green tea, and oolong tea)
20. Miso soup
21. Tomato sauce
22. Starfruit
23. Dark chocolate
24. Almonds (high-oxalate variety)
25. Peanut butter
This list is not exhaustive, and the oxalate content may vary depending on factors such as cooking methods and portion sizes. It's essential to consult a healthcare professional for personalized dietary advice based on your specific needs and health conditions.
"One ounce of almonds, or about 22 nuts, contains 122 milligrams of oxalates. A medium baked potato has 97 milligrams of oxalates per serving. "
❤️
Well, l guess l may as well die. I am diabetic and the foods l CAN eat are now bad for me. Everything is dangerous! l grew up eating many foods on this list and at age 76 never had cancer.
@michelelindseth8250 it's likely a bit more complicated than oxalate.
I'm glad you're well.
When I was on a keto I was eating almond flour biscuits daily often topped with almond butter. There should be a warning label on the bag. Oxalate bombs! Thanks for the list!
Im not sure about the cancer stuff but problems from oxalates are real. People who downplay or even hand wave away the dangers of oxalates have not experienced oxalate poisoning and the mechanical damage oxalates can cause.
You got that right.
Can you elaborate? What are the potential risks (other than cancer) and warning signs? Is there a threshold so we can know to stay under? I legitimately didn’t know the “healthy” foods I am consuming has these dangers.
@@amperage8032 Look up Sally Norton videos. She might be a bit hyperbolic, but will give you a good idea. And Elliot Overton. Oxalates made me very sick. Average person (if there are any) can handle/process about 250 mg per day. 50 or less consider low-ox. Try to keep mine under 100 per day. You will "dump" stored oxalates (and suffer for it) if you go too low suddenly.
So informative!
another great analysis.
What an awesome review! Thank you!
Very timely for me. Thanks! 👍
I dont know about cancer but consuming large amounts of oxalic acid or oxalates can cause oxalate crystal deposition in the kidney leading to damage. There are plenty of case reports of excess sorrel ingestion causing AKI. Calcium oxalate crystals also cause local irritation in the mouth when ingesting toxic plants such as arum.
what about stinging nettles? It is believed that the plants contain higher levels of calcium oxalate crystals after flowering, which can cause kidney problems.
This guy is phenomenal
Very interesting study and explanations!
Thank you for this video
I'm 56 and got a kidney stone. When I looked into that issue I discovered the word oxalate. And what do you know - i had increased the amount of spinach leaves into my vegetable juices (just cos the bag of spinach was going off so quickly) and spinach is massively high in oxolates. So glad that happened before I used them more in my juices
Ive heard drinking green tea makes oxalate form looser crystals, makes it break up before you get a stone. So i started drinking green tea instead of coffee. I feel great! 😊
It takes months for most people to form a kidney stone, and sometimes years to form one large enough to be a problem.
@DovidM I had been using larger amounts of spinach leaves for around 7 months. As a senior radiographer I know the development stages of kidney stones bur had never heard of oxilates. Sorry, what was your point?
Gained a subscriber. This study reminds me of Yasmina Ykelenstam (Healing Histamines blog). She was sensitive to histamine and oxalates. Turns out she passed from aggressive breast cancer, though she managed to outlive most people with the same form (maybe due to dietary care).
Thanks for sharing this comment. I´m going to check her blog.
Very interesting, thank you.
THE “ROD STERLING” OF SCIENCE!
Love his presentations!
This is Nick at his best. Great video
Thanks, KJ - hope you're doing well!
Hi Nicholas, a quick insight from the plant world that might help shed some light on oxalates function. In plant, oxalates are produced (among others) to chelate calcium in lime-rich soil. In Mammals, I believe Ca actually is one of the cell apoptosis signals. Therefore, should oxalate be specifically taken up to help cancer cells counteract normal apoptotic signal, this would constitute an advantage to them as they would mroe easily live on where other would enter apoptosis and die.
nobody lacks oxalates in diet these days quite opposite
@@szymonbaranowski8184 the Dude has said nothing about diet.
Good video and great explanation.
Interesting video Keep up the good work 👌
I am currently cleaning and cutting a huge bag full of chard I harvested from my aunt's garden hours ago.
The timing of your video could not have been better, haha.
Thanks for this initially concerning, then increasingly reassuring video.
Also, I'm a bit late to the party, but:
Congratulations on your 100k milestone!
(I watched the video, but postponed my reply.)
Crazy how you've collected another 7k subscribers in the meantime.
Compared to the the first 7 years of your journey, where you could (and occasionally would) keep track of every single subscription going up and down, haha.
The consistency definitely paid off, and you kept your humility.
So I'm super happy for your 'benign kind of channel mitosis', lol.
Exponential growth is unintuitive to begin with, so it probably still feels a bit surreal that you've made the jump into the "health science mainstream" of RUclips.
I would err on the side of caution with high-oxalate foods I am in my early sixties, and was eating an extremely high oxalate diet for years And, despite being a health buff,. I am currently dealing with breast cancer, kidney pelviectasis and hematuria, and previously had a hysterectomy due to several uterine fibroids (one weighing over 2 lbs.). I have arthritis (calcifications in my finger joints), and did have rather intense muscle soreness and stiffness for years - thankfully that has improved dramatically since I changed my diet (which was only recently)!
Of course I can't prove that oxalates contributed to these conditions, but since we do know that oxalic acid is a toxin, it just isn't worth it when there are so many low-oxalate food substitutes!
@@eleanorsendeavors29 I'm sorry to hear that.
Thank you for sharing your experience, and the word of caution.
As you said, this might not necessarily have been the reason, or even a contributor, but still stands to reason as being a risk factor for a diet that is consistently high in oxalates.
If you're still struggling with arthritis:
I have an acquaintance that used to struggle with a strong form arthritis, up to the point of getting ulcers.
She started drinking celery juice made with a juicer from organic celery stalks she gets delivered regularly to her doorstep.
I know this is a mere testimonial. And you probably already heard of this celery juice fad.
Apparently it got worse before it got better, but several weeks in her issues went away.
She now is pain-free and her hands show no signs of arthritis, so something appears to be working.
The science on it is still slim, but AFAIK there were some publications by now that found some unique benefits that might explain the (dangerously unscientific) "detox" effect.
@@eleanorsendeavors29 I agree.
@@eleanorsendeavors29 interesting comment... my experience is purely as anecdotal as yours... I wouldn't categorize my diet as high in oxalates, but high enough (loved my salads and definitely leaned towards more of a keto type diet, add to that very low fat). Not a health buff, but lived an active lifestyle (hiking, climbing, biking...). I also had a hysterectomy (a few years ago). I had adenomyosis and endometriosis and a fibroid that looked like a head growing out the front of my belly. My ob-gyn said that the average woman my age (47 at the time) had a uterus that weighed about 50 grams. Mine was over 200!
Fermentation can cut down up to 70% of oxalates, reducing possible side effects of beets. Try making some kvass, if you haven't already.
its so nice, that you can break down these studies for the layman, that is really confused by all the misinformation.
As someone not well versed in the field, I am just curious. Was the amount injected into the animals an amount they could have consumed through normal diet, or was it a higher amount to make the results more distinct?
for sure the latter,i would guess
No. This research is pointless.
Also, it was injected and not ingested. Huge diff.
I guess this was just to test if it can be harmful
and the answer is yes
@goku445 is pointless to confirm if eating oxalates are cancerogineous, but gives information that these molecules can be harmfull in the wrong place and in the wrong situation, which makes it more appealing to investigate this further i think. It gives some information
I understand the bare minimum but I 100% love your presentation.
Why do the researchers inject oxalates into the mice instead of just feeding them? Do they expect them to be the same?
Beats me, frankly. Maybe there's some form of technical issue I'm not aware. Either way, it does come off as extreme and lowers the translation.
Thanks for sharing!
First time on this site. Good presentation and food for thought. No matter what I say, can't keep the neighbours out of our rhubarb patch during the Fall. Cheers.
Oxalates give me kidney stones so I try to avoid them. At least the foods that have the highest concentrations.
Good advice from anyone suffering from kidney stones. Also consuming dairy of some kind with meals containing oxalates helps them to bind with the molecules in the dairy which helps the body remove them out of the system. Any excuse to get the chees board out is a winner...pass the crackers Grommit...
Would be interesting to see your take on the plant paradox by Dr. Gundry.
The internet is full of get rich off bull quacks, and he is one of the biggest.
@@SkyRiver1
Possibly, I'm asking here because his diet truly transformed my health, where other similar diets didn't.
Also his claims align with much of what's being discussed everywhere today, with a few added bits of science which I'm curious about.
His communication methods are where I fully agree, he's choosing a form of public speaking that is kinda sleazy. However that can still carry a genuinely good message.
@@Ravenok Nope - unless you are actually allergic to something and you cut it out just by chance because of his disinformation, his message is entirely fantasy. But it pays big time. He is a snake oil salesman. You can buy the same or better organic olive oil that he sells for big bucks at Walmart for ten bucks a quart. He is an embarrassment to the medical profession, like so many MDs that pretend to be nutrition experts, and people automatically think that an MD is a nutritional expert while nothing could be further from the truth, typical medical training includes no valuable info about nutrition. People are just sheep.
Fantastic video. I've had oxalates on my mind recently, largely after realizing how many I CONSUME in my diet. Parsley, specifically, is off the map. Raspberries are another...I am not cutting them out but I am taking pause and trying to be more aware of their presence in my diet. Thx for another great video!
Thanks very Informative
The fact that researchers that attempted to control for confounders didn't even think that the type of mice in the study could play a role (and should be diversified as well) and that type happened to also be immunodeficient is the most eyebrow-raising element of this whole ordeal. Pathetic really!
I would actually love an in depth video about that very topic. It's something rarely considered (or mentioned) when looking at scientific studies. I'm vaguely aware, that there are mice specifically bred for cancer research, but that's about it. How many different 'breeds' of laboratory mice are there? How do they differ and how does that affect results?
Are there ever 'control groups' with mice bred for health and longevity?
@@raraavis7782There are MANY types of breeds, and they're often developed by modifying them with genes for human diseases, to study the molecular mechanisms of the disease and test treatments
Research has to start somewhere. Once something noteworthy is noted, the. The research can broaden out... which is something that they did.
I have no idea why you are being so scornful. Chill.
@@thechloromancer3310 don't tell me to chill! That's none of your business!
If you can't see why using immunodeficient mice to look for symptoms that are largely dependent on immune reactions, you need an ophthalmologist and more scientific training.
Do you understand that research costs and bad research costs more? Who do you think pays when a team of idiots spend funding on BS research like that? It's the taxpayer, the consumer, you and me! Understood?
The vlogger here has narrated this post to give a thrilling 'twist' to the story - the mice were immunodeficient! - which makes it more entertaining, I guess. But in reality I suspect that the first choice of immunodeficient mice was to provide a strong signal in the data. Which they most certainly did get in this case. Then when they got that signal they were encouraged to go back and do the experiment again in more normal mice. Nothing pathetic here - you just got a glimpse inside the sausage factory.
Disappointing that this did not address Thyroid Cancer or surgical removal of thyroid gland and supplementation with synthetic thyroid. Also, to what degree might oxalates facilitate arterial plaques and heart attacks? Or to what degree do oxalates form stones in the kidney that results in heart attacks as there is a renal-heart connection.
Spinach. Beet. Chard. Sorrel. Rhubarb. Lambs quarters. Okra. Purslane. Amaranth. Good greens: Radish. Turnip. Kale. Collard. Watercress.
This style of yours I really enjoy :) I know this is not a controversal topic, to comment on the potential reaction of the audience, but still... I prefer your focus on the content :) Dry humor, for dry data. Fun stuff :D Till next time!
Really interesting. Perhaps it's worth mentioning that vitamin c consumption produces more oxalates.
Keep us in touch with your findings.Thanks
and that artificial vitamin C is much worse than natural form coming with other things in balance
don't overdose this crap
Great channel!
THANKS FOR YOUR HARD WORK. Anecdotal or NOT, HOWEVER for what it possibly may be worth. Within 45 days of going raw organic vegan drinking more than 32 fluid ounces per day of pure organic kale juice it got cancer. Being vegetarian off and on for 20 years then going pure possibly causing my cancer. Now I’m carnivorous mostly canned sardines. I feel great.
Thanks for the great channel.
Large amounts of raw brassica will destroy your thyroid hormones instantly because of the glucosinolates. Large amounts of any one food are likely to be a bad idea. 2 pounds of kale juice per day looks a bit driven, to put it politely. Moderation and variety in food is always a good idea.
@@pattheplanter agreed 👍
I was feeling terrific AND I forgot to mention a major flaw that defends kale a bit possibly and that’s that I was hormonally AND congenitally predisposed to the cancer anyway EXCEPT I had already passed the point of probability. In other words the likelihood of getting that type of cancer at that age was extremely low BUT the juicing was exceptional and possibly made the difference and tipped the scales against me.
I was also deathly reactive to some forms of glutamate that small amounts would cripple me for days. It was way worse than the chemo and the instant I went carno my vulnerability to MSG disappeared.
No "not" about it, it is purely anecdotal, like all carnivore stories and truly meaningless as evidence, even if you have feelings about it.
crisis heals people
they choose the right option they avoided whole life lol
@@SkyRiver1 incorrect, because anecdotal evidence is also empirical evidence which is a very high value kind of evidence. Your understanding of anecdotal is flawed and so is your assertion. Anecdotal doesn’t mean meaningless your misunderstanding is all too common. Shame
As with all your content, yet another interesting and informative video; always enjoy viewing, if for nothing else, the humorous aspect of your explanations and delivery🤣
This channel is so interesting. I wanna study nutrition science and biology now
I'm so over this kind of stuff... Apparently every single food we possess causes Cancer...
This video currently has 539 comments and I don't have time to read through all of them, so I hope this isn't redundant. I'm not a research scientist who publishes papers, but our daughter is, and from what I can tell from her past experience, this paper ("Oxalate induces breast cancer") probably should never have been published without changes to the title and abstract to clearly indicate the use of immunocompromized mice right at the outset (I read the abstract and it also does not mention the use of immunocomromized mice). Leaving the title and abstract of the paper the way they were is sensationalism and I'm surprised the editors and/or reviewers let this pass.
I get that the researchers were probably using immunocompromized mice for a reason, such as to amplify any effects, but that should have been clearly specified. I suspect a title like "Oxalate induces breast cancer in immunocompromized mice" might have garnered less attention.
External validity is a huge question with this research. Are the doses amounts we’d realistically have added to our bodies, let alone specific body parts, via the diet? Similar to what was mentioned at the end and like many here have said, do foods that contain significant amounts of oxalates at the point of consumption have properties that counteract any negative effect the oxalates have?
Your gut biome affects your absorption of oxalates from the foods you eat. Lactobacillus and Oxalobacter are primary examples of bacteria that aid the body by breaking down oxalate salts in the digestive tract.
Could you look into oxalates and the effect on kidney health?
As a precaution due to kidney disease in my relatives, I've opted to avoid oxalate rich foods like spinach.
However you make the claim that cooking your food reduces the oxalate content, where did you cite this, what method of cooking and what percentage does it remove?
Boiling removes 30%-70% from potatos. I boil mine twice in filtered water. Must be similar with other plants. Oxalates are a tricky subject for me I have early signs of CKD so need to be really careful.
they bind to citrates
I would focus on helping them get out easier and clean all pipes from it
Eating red meat does not cause cancer -- it's vegetables that cause cancer!!! 😂
Monaco, Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore consume a lot of red meat and they live the longest. I think Red Meat is the New Blue Zone😂😂😂
If you dont eat vegetals you will die quickly of magnesiun defiency. Magnesium is needed for the body to function correctly. Americans eat magnesium depleted food because intensive farming why people get cancer at 20,30 and 40.
@@powerguiller Yes, Hong Kong is the place with both the highest meat consumption per capita in the world and the one with the highest life expectancy in the world.
It doesn't prove that meat yields longevity, but... it's a pretty decent sign that it won't murder you, as some would want you to think.
@@karlhanso There's plenty of magnesium in meat and dairy products.
@@BigSlimyBlobbut Pharmaceuticals are developing taurine, carnosine, creatine, Co-enzyme Q10, proline, leucine, trytophan as a supplements for longevity, which are abundant in ruminant meat.
Great video!
On cronometer, it has a balance between oxolate and calcium. Is that to do with cancer?
All that spinach. That insane strength. So much cancer. RIP Popeye. 😥
Fortunately that’s not true
@@doddsalfa Have you seen him lately then?🙃
@@ThingsYoudontwanttohear He lives in my basement with his spinach
@@doddsalfa I really expected him to own a house with all that big spinach money. And where is Olive?🤔
@@ThingsYoudontwanttohear well you don’t know the price of spinach
book Toxic Superfoods by expert Norton covers oxylates , I recall kidney stones issues but don’t recall her bringing up cancer. Nevertheless I now avoid almonds, peanuts and spinach as plenty of alternatives without those spikey little things that have no upside to ingesting
You are avoiding some of the healthiest, cancer-defeating foods there are due to misinformation. (Especially almonds! but also spinach.) Ready for Truth? Cancer is caused when normal cells abandon normal oxygen respiration and mutate in order to resparate semi-anaerobically due to a chronically acidic environment: ACIDOSIS. (Otto Warburg won the Nobel Prize for work in this area.) And this is why the cure has long been known - and has been EXPERIENCED - by a tiny minority of us: ALKALIZE THE BODY. This can be done with an alkaline-forming vegetable diet that includes RAW vegetables daily, and/or by simply ingesting a simple drink of baking soda diluted in water. (And its beneficial to both taste and effect to add pure lemon juice.) There you have it. But nowadays few know who to believe. I don't have that problem, which is why I have discovered much, beyond what you would dare to believe, I assure you. Elijah has returned, as prophesied, and testifies.
it's like calling something worse to then prove it doesn't have that effect downplaying it's regular harms
when you change somebody view he tends to expect more of the same
I've got so many questions.
We're these synthetic oxalates?
Or extracted from green plants.
If extracted, were the plants ever
Sprayed with roundup or other
Toxic chemicals?
We're the samples tested for
The presence of dioxin at
One part per trillion?
We're the food sources of each
Group grown in the same soil?
This data contradicts so many other studies, I don't even know where to start.
The ITP tested oral administration of oxaloacetic acid and found no statistical significant effect on longevity... Either the difference is down to route of administration, mice strain, dose tested, or some other experimental variable. It would be interesting to compare these two studies side by side...
Your content is always fascinating, and I love your delivery. If you were ever inclined, could you present your thoughts on the effects of collagen on cancer. Collagen supplements are such a large industry currently, and I wonder if they have any added concerns for people who have had cancer. Thank you
I read a study that suggests cancer uses collagen fibers as a scaffold to move to different organs. Yes, I would love his deep dive on this subject as well. I had been taking marine collagen for at least a year and developed breast cancer. It does run in the family, so the collagen could have been a coincidence. I stopped taking the collagen for several months and started again because it really helped my joints feel better due to taking Letrozole for hormone suppression, which is horrible for bone and joints.
You are consistently the best at what you do.
I will be eating sun light for the rest of my life. Just to avoid cancer
Okay, if not because of you I'll be insane after watching hundreds of hours of different podcasts which explains how to cure cancer- since I am diagnosed with it:
oxalate- ketogenic-cholesterol--- like , no one explains it like you- with all these charts and everything - thanks for the time and effort.. my 1% IQ ; and me not an English speaker-can still understand it 🙇🏻♀️ Arigatou!
頑張って、るみ!
look also into sources of stresses in your life
food medicines are on part while you overall are more than body
you can get it from not treating trauma from childhood
Gabor Mate explains it better
people who live for others sacrificing themselves often end with hard diseases as result of forgetting to care for themselves negating own basic importance
Some old folks claim to have cured their cancer with prolongued fasting (water and electrolytes) for many days in a row.
@@szymonbaranowski8184Gabor is awesome. Very smart guy
If you have enough fat on your body don’t eat at all just drink water with potassium and salt. Cancer lives off of sugar and sometimes protein turns into sugar in your body too. But when your fasting your living off 100% fat. I just finished a 15 day water fast and lost 30lbs and got rid of my acid reflux and I’m off diabetic medication. You can literally go until you have no fat left on your body as long as you have electrolytes and water. Good luck.
How much would I have to ingest to get the equal amount that gave the mice cancer.
What if one has calcium oxalate bladder stones? Does this predispose to cancer????
the problem with oxalates, among others, is that there is a great deal of disinformation on oxalate content. Here at the start you have lettuce with some high oxalate plants, but most if not all references to lettuce is that it is very low oxalate. Most oxalate information I have seen on youtube is contradictory or plain confusing.
Thank you for the excellent presentation on the oxalate study. My husband is really paranoid about eating any food with oxalates. Oh, the horror when he finds out our bodies produce them. :D
He maybe already knows that. Anyway, the anecdotal evidence against eating too much oxalic acid is striking. If he's wrong, oh well... If you're wrong, you'll pay with your health and well being...
@@eleanorsendeavors29 For the vast vast majority of people oxalates cause no problem and are excreted from the body
@@eleanorsendeavors29 Not really "Oh well". . . if he's wrong he has eliminated the most nutritious foods on earth from his diet.
@@888jucuyou underestimate nr of vegetarians these days
@@szymonbaranowski8184 I dont understand your reply??
thank you.
Hiii Nicholas could you maybe make a video about different types of scietific studies like meta analysis and others? What they are and how they are created? Or maybe give us some materials where we could learn about them? I dont relly know where i could learn this stuff, and i think i will need it in the future(studying molecular biology)
Kind regards
First I've heard that oxalates cause osteoporosis and other health issues which I'm skeptical about the osteoporosis part but I've never heard that they cause cancer
I've only heard that fruits and veggies prevent cancer because most foods that contain oxalates are fruits and veggies
People fear monger on bad science, that's half the battle. They don't cause arthritis. Then you'll have Dr. Lustig tell you that fructose is going to kill you, but that it's ok in fruit form because fiber. Too much fear mongering.
I had health issues for years that were debilitating for many days each week. I discovered Sally Norton, read her stuff on oxalates, cut my oxalates down SLOWLY, as you must, and my new found health is astounding. Will never go back to the almond, spinach, potato, tomato overload I used to eat, thinking it was all healthy.
Oxalates bind to calcium in the gut. If you have insufficient calcium intake, it can lead to kidney stones. I had not heard about the osteoporosis connection, though it is incredibly plausible given the way it interacts in the body.
@@channeldoesnotexist but I've talked to women that told me they reverse their osteoporosis by eating beans nuts seeds tofu lots of vegetables with some animal foods like dairy and fish well cooked and prepared because of the vitamins and minerals because minerals are very important to bones as well as protein, I don't eat these foods without properly cooking them soaking steaming well cooked
I'm now convinced that vegetables are more nutritious than fruits but t fruits are better tasting
Interesting, but I'm still eating plants
I don't know about causing cancer, but in my personal experience and with a bit of research, oxalates do bind to nutrients and can cause nutritional deficiencies.
I'm in the unique position of having various nutrient levels either on the edge or deficient, which makes it so that I can very easily notice when something affects me.
So I was experimenting with spinach, putting it in smoothies. The exact same smoothie every time, just the amount of spinach would change. When i got to 100g of spinach, I was already feeling an effect on my body with very similar symptoms as I would previously experience when some nutrients would become deficient. At 200g of spinach I had worse symptoms than in my worst days of being heavily deficient, so much so that I was bedbound for days, which luckily got corrected just by removing spinach.
So forget about cancer or kidney stones which everyone talks about, in my experience, oxalates cause nutritional deficiencies. And it's safe to say that from nutritional deficiencies you can get all sorts of things going wrong in the body!!!
🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
To drink my beet juice or not drink my beet juice, that is the question.
I swim 3-5 times per week. On those days only I put 30% beet juice / 70% water into my workout water bottle. The beet juice definitely helps with endurance and aerobic exercises. I get a very slight pause from this study, but except for beet juice 3-5 days per week, I'm not really doing other things (deliberately) to increase my oxalate levels. For example, I'm not doing "spinach smoothies" every single day.
How about kidney health? I would love you to put some content out there and how to deal with it? Some say consuming yogurt will offset the oxalate negative impact.Would love to know your opinion.
Bro, did you watch the video? The study showed that oxalate injections had no effect on kidney cancer cells.
@@KJ-um1gq I did but why kidney doctors suggest stay away from oxalate if you are genetically prone to kidney stone? My question was for that not the cancer.
@@allenheydari356You better stay away from protein powders and drinks and bars and meat too, because protein causes kidney stones.
10:59 FYI , HEK293 are now ( since mid 2000 ) known to have more of a neuronal phenotype ( Stepanenko et al. 2015) than kidney as they express neuronal protein such as neurofilament (Shaw et al. 2002) Nav1.x neuronal Na+ channels (He et al. 2011)… due to the use of adenovirus type 5 with neuronal tropism to generate them ( Shaw et al 2002). I’ve done some oncology assay and we never use HEK293 as they are not isolated from cancer patient but made artificially cancerous to keep them growing in culture so I would take the data with a grain of salt.
Fascinating. I'll have to look into it and make an amendment, then! Thanks for turning me onto it.
My pleasure, I never comment but I really like your content and you seem data driven so wanted to point it out
Added an amendment - thank you for the correction. :)
You are such an excellent teacher!!!!
Have you heard of how oxalates can affect skin, as well as cause "brain fog"?
Who told you that, your barber, or do you have a real source?
@@SkyRiver1any look at vegan is a study in itself 😂
Cancer-statistics for vegans needed ...
I'd bet they're low...
@@Physionic ... I guess they are pretty average.
But hey, I know nothing :)
A quick Google shows 14% reduction in cancer for vegetarians.
An EPIC-Oxford study from 2016 showed no difference whether you were vegan, vegetarian or a meat eater. Vegetarians did have a lower rate of pancreatic and lymphatic cancers but for all other cancers the rate was the same. For vegans there was no significant difference between them and meat eaters for any form of cancer.
@@Physionic compared to what? If SAD, then yes probably.
This looks to me like what happens when you don't get a balanced diet. Lots of things are toxic if you ingest enough of them. But it will be useful information nonetheless -- what I want to see is much more than breast location vs non-breast location about what other points of interaction are being missed here that might put oxalates into a position to cause trouble or something to that effect.
Possibly. Still need more data to be clear on that, though.
Looks to me you didn't finish the video
Strangely most "superfoods" are full of oxalate. Look at the mainstream media and what they want you to eat.
Oxalates benefit plants growing in acid soil tolerate what would otherwise be toxic levels of aluminum. Oxalates also seem to discourage some insect pests and grazers. About a third of plant families contain some percentage of oxalates.
Other than cooking are there foods that can block oxalate absorption?
if oxalates were really feeding cancer, then my mom’s friend must have performed a miracle because she fed her dog veggies and beans and caused the cancer to go into remission.
Unless that dog had breast cancer it’s completely unrelated to this study. Use your brain and think for a second as to whether it’s really the vegetables that put cancer into remission or if it’s the fact the dog was no longer eating ultra processed dog food which is also known as kibble. Kibble has cancer causing ingredients and is high in carbohydrates which spikes insulin. Insulin is essential to growth of cancer cells.
The reality is, your friend has no idea if it was cutting out the garbage that saved the dog or if it was the vegetables. Plants are also not a species appropriate diet for dogs, feeding them that is slowly stripping them of nutrients so essentially starving the dog and at the same time the cancer cells lol. Same reason cancer patients do so well with IMF.
If you imagine cancer being MORE sensitive to poisons than other cells, as it focuses on cell division rather than protective mechanisms, it may work kinda like chemotherapy. However, veggues have shown to be HEALTHY, unlike chemo
Feed and injecting are two different things. Eating goes through the digestive system, where a detoxification occurs. Injecting goes straight into the bloodstream. Also whenever you go from highly processed foods(dog food included) to something less processed(veggies/beans) you're lessening the toxicity going into the body. So the body might have time to heal but long term veggies and beans for animals is detrimental. Dogs are carnivores. Most animals, including humans are meant to eat meat. Most of the foods that we have today weren't even around 200 years ago. When I was growing up, I've never heard anyone's pets have cancer. This is a recent thing.
@@lollsazzgood point
Well first, you wouldn't know why exactly the cancer went into remission. For all you know the cancer would have gone away faster without the veggies and beans.
Second, don't feed dogs veggies and beans. It's not good for them. It's probably bad for humans, but for dogs it's just insane.
I do feel much better now I don’t eat vegetables,sugar and seed oil...
I went Carnivore 3 years ago...could not be more happier...
Thanks Sir