Great video. My own view is that the Minoans were not "Matriarchal" but that they were less patriarchal than the later IE cultures and that they probably practiced matronymics
To our knowledge, an actual matriarchal civilisation has yet to be discovered, and not much can be said about Minoan Crete itself. The video was meant to tell the story of the hopes and dreams that were variably projected on Greece's past. However, most European mythologies show marks of syncretism, as in each, a certain "seam" can be observed where the IE and pre-IE traditions merged as they got "stitched" together. As the IE influence weakened with expansion, feminine characters became stronger, while, by the time the IE reached Ireland, witches regained a dominant role that was unknown to the Greeks. These traces MUST be telling of something. What that "something" is however... is hard to tell...
@@AncientGreeceRevisited yes i enjoyed the history of the history. It is good to learn how ideas of the past influence the present and vice versa. However i am certain IE pantheons always had goddesses too and pre IE had gods as well as goddesses. We also see clear evidence of warfare in Neolithic Europe so it's not like IE invented war either.
@@Survivethejive Ha! No they did not. Yet, we must also pay attention to the character of a deity, appreciate it like we do a work of art. The "shield-maiden" Athena, an eternal virgin, "her father's only," is very different in character to the Minoan "Snake Goddess." A single glance at their image representations brings to mind the "ouranic," sky worshiping, and "cthonic," earth-like orientations respectively. The Tuatha Dé Danann of Irish myth that I brought up are closer to the latter than to the former.
I discovered your channel recently and I have been amazed by the quality of content. Do you have any suggestions about proper introductory books to this topic?
Glad you enjoyed it! It's really important to get this however. There is a light and a dark to everything, and if you are interested in paganism, that is perhaps the first thing to grasp. There is a light in dark in man, as there is in woman, it's just that they are different...
@@AncientGreeceRevisited indeed wise words, after the video i looked the minoans on wikipedia and found their gordic civil code, wich is actually quite modern, but what i really tought amazing is that the other ancient surviving inscription of antiquity is the letter of diogenes of epicurus philosophy! Thanks for helping fuel curiosity!
I'm new herebyrecently discover your channel! I have to say that it's a beautiful work and very educational that takes you deep in the beauty of the ancient Greek world! Keep on with more videos!🥰🥰🥰 PS: Nice future videos could be the Mechanism of Antikythira and what happened during the end of the Bronze Age, who comes with the total destruction of all the great civilizations in Eastern Mediterranean!
This one popped up in my way during the research phase, right when i just started. I'll be working on a story for a comicbook ''Tαυροκαθαψια'' for the next few years, the sport where athletes used to perform gymnastic moves on a moving bull. Long story short, it has to do with a young girl that is forced to participate in order to escape poverty, only to find out the political games that lie behind that sport blended with the dark secret of sacrifing teens to Minotaur. Exceptional video, like all the others of course. Plus very helpful and insightful on the topic.
Great to hear about your project. It's always worth however to try and see a culture through its own eyes, which is what we're trying to do here with ancient Greece. For Minoans, sacrificing to the Minotaur might not be what we read in the Theseus story. In a world were life moved cyclically together with the change of seasons, and where re-incarnation was a given, killing someone in their prime might be "doing them a favor."
@@AncientGreeceRevisited it's an interesting point of view, that could lead the plot slightly to another direction, where the lies that led to glorified and justified sacrificies, are exposed and the person that used to benefit from feeding Minotaur and keeping him under their control to use him as an emergency weapon have to face the Minoan citizens now. A possible lack of historical accuracy is not an issue since it is fiction. Helpful as always, thanks a lot.
@@alexpsallidakis28 Perhaps, but we must imagine a culture in its own ways. If you believe in reincarnation, then sacrifice can be something like a "coup de grâce:" rather than growing old and weak you are the lucky one to live only for the best years of your life. The idea of a popular revolt as you mentioned can happen only when Man comes to impose his will on nature. Pre-modern cultures followed the ways of nature, where hierarchies, wars, and sacrifice were undeniable realties. In that context, rebelling against the king is rebelling against nature herself.
12:10 What interests me about the matriarchy in ancient Greece is that they view woman not us peaceful and modest, but as highly erotic, sexual and violent. Maenads, the followers of Dionysus that symbolized woman spirit outside patriarchy, even went to the point of killing Orpheus because he rejected them. Is not the hippie view of modern feminism, but of woman having the same urges as man, which is more igualitary in some sense. Some greek philosophers even pointed out that marriage was invented to control the eros of woman.
Yes, no other people apart from us in the modern West had equated femininity with peacefulness and tranquility. Even as late as the start of the 20th century, Chesterton understood this when he wrote that woman’s power is “tyrannical”
3:02 This is false. Herodotus says that the Lycians were practicing matronymics. He associates Lycians and Carians with Crete but still your statement is false.
"The Lycians were from Crete in ancient times (for in the past none that lived on Crete were Greek)" - Herodotus, The Histories [1.173] I think it's a fair association to make. * Advice: Don't be a dork with these things, try and see the essence of things.
Graves’ novel Seven Days in New Crete is also entitled in later editions as Watch the North Wind Rise. You could have given credit to Jacob Burckharrdt for the Das Mutterrecht concept. And of course the Jewish religion consecrates matrilineal decent as a key to its cultural identity.... great work here but it seems we will always be a violent species even if we could modify our social organization to embrace a matriarchal society. Evens had trouble locating military forts in his initial digs. I understand that later archeologists have apparently encountered more fortified citadels from the same period as Knossos. Is this true ?Thanks for wonderful and informative video. Efkaresto Poli ....
Thank you for your comment. The Mother Right concept, to our knowledge, originated with Johann Jakob Bachofen. The reason we avoid mentioning too many names is purely to help the viewer absorb what is most important. Trust me, our written material on which the episodes are based are FULL of references. As to your second point, yes, perhaps violence will be with us. But what is important is to understand the various way it can be channeled as well as mischanneled. Lately, and thanks to books from Steven Pinker, we are under the delusion that violence is disappearing. It's worth considering that it might not, and just like in Minoan Crete, it might have moved underground.
The ancient minoans have not disappear ! They are the modern Greek now !that’s why they so dark .. The white marble statue are the Albanians all the gods were Albanian the language was Albanian.. but something happen in the Greek dark ages and they stole Albanian History and they think , they are the ancient hero’s ... 🇦🇱
@@antinoofromgreece6560 no dna spreading started 200 years ago .. over 10 million Albanian live in turkey , to make way for Slavs .. there were forced to leave they lands .. and majority of orthodox Turks were forced to migrate to Greece to create a orthodox Greece country.. Only Greece have Turk dna
Great video. My own view is that the Minoans were not "Matriarchal" but that they were less patriarchal than the later IE cultures and that they probably practiced matronymics
To our knowledge, an actual matriarchal civilisation has yet to be discovered, and not much can be said about Minoan Crete itself. The video was meant to tell the story of the hopes and dreams that were variably projected on Greece's past. However, most European mythologies show marks of syncretism, as in each, a certain "seam" can be observed where the IE and pre-IE traditions merged as they got "stitched" together. As the IE influence weakened with expansion, feminine characters became stronger, while, by the time the IE reached Ireland, witches regained a dominant role that was unknown to the Greeks. These traces MUST be telling of something. What that "something" is however... is hard to tell...
@@AncientGreeceRevisited yes i enjoyed the history of the history. It is good to learn how ideas of the past influence the present and vice versa. However i am certain IE pantheons always had goddesses too and pre IE had gods as well as goddesses. We also see clear evidence of warfare in Neolithic Europe so it's not like IE invented war either.
@@Survivethejive Ha! No they did not. Yet, we must also pay attention to the character of a deity, appreciate it like we do a work of art. The "shield-maiden" Athena, an eternal virgin, "her father's only," is very different in character to the Minoan "Snake Goddess." A single glance at their image representations brings to mind the "ouranic," sky worshiping, and "cthonic," earth-like orientations respectively. The Tuatha Dé Danann of Irish myth that I brought up are closer to the latter than to the former.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited true!
Carlos Alberto Sanches brought me here
I discovered your channel recently and I have been amazed by the quality of content. Do you have any suggestions about proper introductory books to this topic?
Thank you! Books on Ancient Greece? Minoan Crete?
Great video, you do a great job at breaking down the history of history. Keep up the great work!
Thank you you very much for the good words! We are opening up doors to a journey that probably never ends!
That got pretty dark near the end !
But as always excelent video and dialogue, thanks for the effort.
Glad you enjoyed it! It's really important to get this however. There is a light and a dark to everything, and if you are interested in paganism, that is perhaps the first thing to grasp. There is a light in dark in man, as there is in woman, it's just that they are different...
@@AncientGreeceRevisited indeed wise words, after the video i looked the minoans on wikipedia and found their gordic civil code, wich is actually quite modern, but what i really tought amazing is that the other ancient surviving inscription of antiquity is the letter of diogenes of epicurus philosophy!
Thanks for helping fuel curiosity!
I am glad that i found your channel 😁 This video has taught me more in ancient Greek history than 12 years of school education 👏👏
Really glad to hear that! As exaggerated as it might be, it's comments like yours that keep us going.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited actually it is not exaggerated 😅
Not even a mention at Kalokairinos? Love your work!
Thank you but unfortunately we were not aware of him (until now). Thank you for the mention and we promise to follow that new lead...
Good job!
I'm new herebyrecently discover your channel! I have to say that it's a beautiful work and very educational that takes you deep in the beauty of the ancient Greek world! Keep on with more videos!🥰🥰🥰
PS: Nice future videos could be the Mechanism of Antikythira and what happened during the end of the Bronze Age, who comes with the total destruction of all the great civilizations in Eastern Mediterranean!
The Mechanism is definitely on the list... I mean, the world first computer!? How could we miss on that one...?
@@AncientGreeceRevisited Looking forward for your future videos 😉
30 years ago I traveled form New Zealand to the Palace of Knossos, to propose to my wife, it worked and she said yes.
Of course! It's the locus of matriarchy ;-)
This one popped up in my way during the research phase, right when i just started.
I'll be working on a story for a comicbook ''Tαυροκαθαψια'' for the next few years, the sport where athletes used to perform gymnastic moves on a moving bull.
Long story short, it has to do with a young girl that is forced to participate in order to escape poverty, only to find out the political games that lie behind that sport blended with the dark secret of sacrifing teens to Minotaur.
Exceptional video, like all the others of course. Plus very helpful and insightful on the topic.
Great to hear about your project. It's always worth however to try and see a culture through its own eyes, which is what we're trying to do here with ancient Greece. For Minoans, sacrificing to the Minotaur might not be what we read in the Theseus story. In a world were life moved cyclically together with the change of seasons, and where re-incarnation was a given, killing someone in their prime might be "doing them a favor."
@@AncientGreeceRevisited it's an interesting point of view, that could lead the plot slightly to another direction, where the lies that led to glorified and justified sacrificies, are exposed and the person that used to benefit from feeding Minotaur and keeping him under their control to use him as an emergency weapon have to face the Minoan citizens now.
A possible lack of historical accuracy is not an issue since it is fiction.
Helpful as always, thanks a lot.
@@alexpsallidakis28 Perhaps, but we must imagine a culture in its own ways. If you believe in reincarnation, then sacrifice can be something like a "coup de grâce:" rather than growing old and weak you are the lucky one to live only for the best years of your life. The idea of a popular revolt as you mentioned can happen only when Man comes to impose his will on nature. Pre-modern cultures followed the ways of nature, where hierarchies, wars, and sacrifice were undeniable realties. In that context, rebelling against the king is rebelling against nature herself.
Today it seems like we re living in that moment again. But it won't last
We're right there: ruclips.net/video/IPh7_fZfUxU/видео.html
The end is a punch in the gut.
Nonetheless, the truth must be spoken.
Brilliant video!
=)
Yes, it was the one "politically incorrect" part, but it HAD to be there.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited truth should not be politically corrected cause it ceases to be truth
Excellent work and yet,what a pity, the role of Minos Kalokerinos who found and started the excavations before Evans was not mentioned at all!
Can't know it all I'm afraid...
12:10 What interests me about the matriarchy in ancient Greece is that they view woman not us peaceful and modest, but as highly erotic, sexual and violent. Maenads, the followers of Dionysus that symbolized woman spirit outside patriarchy, even went to the point of killing Orpheus because he rejected them.
Is not the hippie view of modern feminism, but of woman having the same urges as man, which is more igualitary in some sense. Some greek philosophers even pointed out that marriage was invented to control the eros of woman.
Yes, no other people apart from us in the modern West had equated femininity with peacefulness and tranquility. Even as late as the start of the 20th century, Chesterton understood this when he wrote that woman’s power is “tyrannical”
12:12 "And maybe, there is also a way to violence that is feminine..."
Thanks for another great video 👍🏻
Thank you for watching till the end ;-)
3:02 This is false. Herodotus says that the Lycians were practicing matronymics. He associates Lycians and Carians with Crete but still your statement is false.
"The Lycians were from Crete in ancient times (for in the past none that lived on Crete were Greek)"
- Herodotus, The Histories [1.173]
I think it's a fair association to make.
* Advice: Don't be a dork with these things, try and see the essence of things.
Carlos Alberto Sanches brought me here!
Graves’ novel Seven Days in New Crete is also entitled in later editions as Watch the North Wind Rise. You could have given credit to Jacob Burckharrdt for the Das Mutterrecht concept. And of course the Jewish religion consecrates matrilineal decent as a key to its cultural identity.... great work here but it seems we will always be a violent species even if we could modify our social organization to embrace a matriarchal society. Evens had trouble locating military forts in his initial digs. I understand that later archeologists have apparently encountered more fortified citadels from the same period as Knossos. Is this true ?Thanks for wonderful and informative video. Efkaresto Poli ....
Thank you for your comment. The Mother Right concept, to our knowledge, originated with Johann Jakob Bachofen. The reason we avoid mentioning too many names is purely to help the viewer absorb what is most important. Trust me, our written material on which the episodes are based are FULL of references. As to your second point, yes, perhaps violence will be with us. But what is important is to understand the various way it can be channeled as well as mischanneled. Lately, and thanks to books from Steven Pinker, we are under the delusion that violence is disappearing. It's worth considering that it might not, and just like in Minoan Crete, it might have moved underground.
I have experienced a variety of types of violence from both sexes, so I am intellectually and emotionally equipped.
The ancient minoans have not disappear ! They are the modern Greek now !that’s why they so dark .. The white marble statue are the Albanians all the gods were Albanian the language was Albanian.. but something happen in the Greek dark ages and they stole Albanian History and they think , they are the ancient hero’s ... 🇦🇱
@@antinoofromgreece6560 no dna spreading started 200 years ago .. over 10 million Albanian live in turkey , to make way for Slavs .. there were forced to leave they lands .. and majority of orthodox Turks were forced to migrate to Greece to create a orthodox Greece country.. Only Greece have Turk dna
The white statues were not white and they were made after the "Greek Dark Ages".