let's be honest, when you've got two possible family origins, and one of them involves a dragon, you're gonna go with the one with the dragon no matter how fantastical it is
Frankly, I’d never considered the fact that she might have been acting as some sort of surgeon or healer or even abortionist. The concept is intriguing and puts an entirely different spin on the whole story.
I cannot see this as a likely scenario. If this was the case, on such a large scale, then one would have expected both some witnesses to this who will step forward (even if disbelieved), or at least that she would have written letters to others more knowledgeable about the matter to seek advice and exchange ideas.
@@Hfil66 A woman practicing medicine like witch craft or abortions would lead to death not only to her but anyone involved. If this was the case, no one would come forward as witness.
@@alessaapathy I think you are rather confusing witch trials with herbal medicine. Herbal medicine was practised widely, not least by monks themselves. Abortion is another matter, and that could well have been illegal at the time, as it still is in some parts of the world today.
@@alessaapathy Do we know what REGULAR people would have thought of her? We have records of what the her accusers (people who generally more literate than the average regular person) thought of her, but what does this tell us about what regular people thought of her?
I still remember first discovering the legend of the virgin-killing, blood-bathing countess. I was a young teenager, youtube wasn't a thing yet, but she was featured in scary shows documenting "real life" vampires and other spoooooooky figures. Being a kid who loved scary things, and trusting that the Discovery Channel wouldn't LIE TO ME, I believed it (with a small grain of salt). Then, she became a really popular figure in the early Creepy RUclips years, where they again mostly just espoused the usual virgin-killing, blood-bathing story. But I was older, and it started to sound a little too fantastic (in the literal sense) for me to take seriously. Then I finally listened to a documentary or podcast that explained the entire political atmosphere at the time, and I started thinking about all the other historical propaganda we've come to believe as fact. Catherine the Great's uh... horse misadventure, for instance. I've decided that the reality of Elizabeth Bathory was probably heavily colored by politics, but she was probably still a giant asshole to the help.
A friend once pointed out that you can read the novel Dracula as follows (bearing in mind the novel is made up of the "testimonies" of the people who killed him): A Transylvanian nobleman moves to England. He falls in love with a married, middle-class English woman. Her husband and friends, full of middle-class outrage at this impertinent foreigner, plot to kill him and spin a story that will frame him for shocking crimes of vampirism. He escapes, but the racist Englishmen and their friends pursue him back to his own country, finally brutally murdering him in front of the gate of his castle.
That's not racist. Lol 🤭 It's just nationalism and prejudice against foreigners. The British Royal Family are friendly with the former Royal family of Romania. Prince Charles has a home in Transylvania that is on RUclips
I firmly believe she was framed. There is an amazing Hungarian historian that explained why very thoroughly. It was a whole political intrigue. Her text is featured on the notes on Hungary blog.
Of course: 1.King Matthias and many other important Habsburgers(and not only them) had huge money debts to the Barthory 2.She was a widow and as widow she were a easy thread in the she lived 3.)She were wealthy,powerfull,influencial and ruled over wealthy and great landscapes from regions of transylvania to regions near to bratislava.That alone made a special neighbor very envy.And the fact she were so powerful made her to a problem for many regional lords that has to be eliminated. 4.) for the rumors around her(witchcraft,satanism,sadistic mass murder)we have still today no PROOFS only the testifies of the so called witnesses that were payed,blackmailed or tormented to testify what Thurzò (the special neighbor and ally of king Matthias) needed to trial Elizabeth Bathory. And the ally between Matthias and his cheef-investigator Thurzò is prooven by laters wich were found into the Hungarian Staates archive in 1997.And the process-documents of the trial were destroyed shortly after Barthory was arested.Her servants were tormented and under this torment they testified all what Thurzò wanted.After that they were sentenced to death. That was nothing other then a witch-hunt.And the result was clearly from the beginning of the trial. 6.) we have no physical proofs:in the entire area where Barthory reigned is found no grave of one of the alledged far over 600 victims and no remains of their bodies. That facts speaks against the story about the psychophatical serial killer with vampiric attitudes. I dont say that she was an innocent beauty.She was cruel to her servants,vessels and pesants as it were normal for a feudal lord.But I dont think that she is guilty of sadistical,sexual motivated torturing,humiliating and murdering over 600 wimen.I think that it was a political intrigue against her.
I just happen to be reading Rivka Galchen's new novel "Everyone Knows Your Mother Is A Witch" which is based on the life of Katharina Kepler (1546-1622), the mother of the astronomer Johannes Kepler. She was accused of being a witch. It makes you think about why people would accuse someone falsely and why others are willing to believe them.
Have they recovered bodies from the Castle/surrounding area? You'd think if there's truth to it there would be a mass grave or an unusually high number of bodies that match the victim profile.
Great reflection. I think the stories about here were greatly exaggerated, if not totally made up. She was a women with a lot of power in a world where powerful men felt threatened by her. And the blood bathing, I think it says it all that the first sources of it didn’t start to pop up before long after she was dead.
The stories may be exaggerated, or may be made up, but they may also have some substance to them. In comparison, I would ask how some future archaeologist, in the absence of modern video and audio evidence, would have treated stories about Nazi atrocities in the mid 20th century. Even with all that evidence, there are still some people who believe those stories are made up stories. Also, remember, that for all our painting the Nazis as evil people, they could also be caring ordinary people, the way they acted depending on the circumstance, at one moment very caring and at another moment very cruel. Whether male or female, such people do exist.
@@scrypher I am in no way disputing that it was not uncommon for women to attain power in the past (despite what feminists would have you believe), I was merely saying that to hold on to that power they often had prove themselves to more male than the men. Also, they had to be careful not to remarry (most women of power would be widows, but in medieval Europe they would lose that power if they remarry). The fact that Cleopatra was a slave owner would have been totally normal for the time. The bigger issue is that she conspired to kill off her siblings to secure her power (although plenty of men did that also, and was at one time standard practice in the Ottoman empire).
@@scrypher Slaves back in Cleopatra's time were from all races and skin colors. Isaac and Rebecca and their sons Jacob and Esau from the Old Testament we're slave owners as well
For me, my feelings are mixed. Do I feel that many of her crimes were exaggerated, such as the number of the victims or that she was bathing in their blood? Yes. And I do find it very possible that she was used because she was in the middle of other males' aspirations. But also, to me, a rich person who grew up in an environment were violence was the norm and who probably experienced some of it herself, ending up doing the same, isn't unbelievable. And we don't even know if she was the only one abusing her servants (allegedly). So I think that even tho she was condemned for some things that she didn't do, she wasn't innocent either. Great video by the way.
I think this is brilliantly put, no one disputes that her husband tortured to death her first child’s father. It makes you wonder if he took any revenge on her too? And if he did how that made her view violence. Often the abused becomes the abuser.
I think your conclusion, (including what it says about us) is the best we can presently hope to come to. She was seen as prime pickings for the men surrounding her and that such a situation, a rich widow, that many women of the time found themselves in, certainly led to similar male condemnation. Viz Elizabeth I, who had similar, if less murderous, tales told of her.
650+ victims seems excessive and suspicious as to the reality of what was going on. Our perception of her is of course colored by the vampire claims and Stoker reference. Love your assessment!
You are such a pleasant and impactful teacher. Love your videos and this one has a whole new view on Elizabeth that I had never heard before. Thank you for your research and care! On another note, what is your little munchkin gonna be for Halloween?
I greatly admire the way you analyse and present your content. Thank you for your work! Speaking of interesting family origin stories, I'd love to hear you present content on Melusine.
Kay Sea -- Yes! I agree! Elizabeth Woodville (in the past) & Princess Michael of Kent (in the present) both claimed Melusine as an ancestress. It would be fascinating to discuss a legendary foundress of royal/noble houses in Europe.
I also feel that she was destroyed because she had powerful enemies who wanted what she had. She was a woman, and as such, shouldn’t have any power, yet she did.
This video deserves all the love and support! It is a great overview of her life while also addressing the "tales" from story. This is the story, Bathory supporters need everyone to see. #bathorywasframed #powerfulfemalefigure
@@fatiht8863 That was in response to another comment saying Erzsebet may have been framed. Lucretia was rumoured to be a poisoner, so I am saying that she was no doubt framed and her rotten family (brothers and uncle) were the poisoners.
@@thehighpriestess978 I think same goes for Erzsebet because these three important events occurred around the same time: Gábor Báthory’s assassination attempt in Transylvania(1613), Zsigmond Báthory’s imprisonment in Prague(1610), and Erzsébet Báthory’s show trial in Hungary(1610).
I don’t believe for a moment that she did what she was accused of doing. Women with power and money were vulnerable to all sorts of devious plots to divest them of what they had. One just has to look at the Salem Witch Trials to see how women, often widows or women of independent means, could be accused of witchcraft because they owned land that a neighbour wanted, or because of a debt that someone else owed to the woman, or merely because a neighbour just didn’t like her. Men were less likely to be accused of witchcraft, possibly because men had the ability to defend themselves and had more standing than women. It was easier to pick on widows who had something others might want and/or were generally disliked by a community. One can easily imagine that a rich and powerful widow with property might be the victim of vicious rumours or outright accusations. Don’t forget that Anne Boleyn was accused of witchcraft as the reason, in part, for her trial and execution. It was an expedient. For Elizabeth Bathory to be accused by a fundamentalist priest of terrible acts would be relatively easy… and believed. Catholics were accused of heresy and witchcraft by Protestants, and vice versa, as England and Scotland swung back and forth between religions, usually depending on testimony under torture.. I just find it unbelievable that someone would be able to carry out the acts that she was accused of for so long and against so many, including the daughters of gentry with no one hearing more than the odd rumour from local peasants who probably never set eyes on her.
The person this story puts me in mind of most is Baron Gilles de Rais, who only 100 or so years previous in France was accused and convicted of similar horrendous acts, often against children. Erzebet being a woman in power would only amplify such a response. Think of some of the slanders levelled at Margaret Tudor only decades before or, as you mention, the accusations aimed at Anne Boleyn. It is nigh impossible to absolve or convict anyone this far in the past, but I firmly believe that these people (even if they genuinely did have a streak of cruelty) were at the bare minimum made out to be far more monstrous than they were... and, in my opinion more likely, entirely framed as part of a power play.
Sounds to me she was the victim of jealousy and was very vulnerable to greedy men who wanted her fortune. And maybe she was a very reserved and unapproachable person. And if I recall correctly she was also related to Vlad Dracula as well and King Mattias Corvinus hated him with a passion too. Oh yes....he owed her lots of money.....oh yes....get rid of her and take all she has....I talked about this with some guys....and the first thing they said?.....oh yes......there's the motive......I truly think she was a victim.
@@karlkarlos3545 Don’t be absurd. There’s as much actually credible “proof” that she did anything as there is against her husband. As in none. Next you’ll be saying that all the people burbed at the stake for being witches were actually witches.
That’s my region, yay! My hometown is not too far from the Cachtice castle, it’s popular local trip destination. It became increasingly more popular after the movie made in 2008. They even renovated the castle a bit.
Fascinating. I believe there is some truth behind the Bathory story. It's just been, like many other stories, exaggerated just like the Vlad Dracul stories.
Although Vlad did have many enemies, particularly the Transylvanian Saxons and Ottomans, that wanted to see him gone, there's plenty of evidence to support his reputation for cruelty and brutality, with some scholars saying that had he committed the same acts today, they would be considered crimes against humanity and genocide. Through a mix of purges, scorched earth policies and pillaging, Vlad indiscriminately killed many thousands, including his own civilians, and his method of choice was impalement. The most known story, of the Ottomans entering Vlad's capital city, Targoviste, only to find it deserted and then coming upon a "forest of the impaled", 2.5 miles long and 1.5 miles wide filled with 23,844 dead Ottoman soldiers, who presumably died in the preceeding battles, is true. Mehmed II was there and his response is recorded, as is their immediate departure and the revenge they took on the civilians as they fled back to Constantinople. Vlad also wrote a letter to Matthias Corvinus of Hungary, in which he states the exact number of impaled. Impalement has been practiced for thousands of years and was one of the preferred method of punishing criminals and rebellion leaders in Eastern Europe and the Ottoman Empire, with recorded evidence of its use into the mid 1800s and possibly during the Armenian Genocide in 1915, so while many stories about Vlad are exaggerated or even made up, he gained his nickname, The Impaler, because there are also many true stories.
She did things...but no way to the level legend attests too. She was a Widow who had money, power, and a lack of interest in a second marriage. Who also was a political mover and shaker... Yeah no reason at all why they would want her gone.
It seems like a terrific muddle all round! I do find it particularly interesting though, that the really lurid blood stuff didn't start doing the rounds until long after she was dead. In modern parlance, there seem to have been a whole range of sexed-up 'dodgy dossiers' from a variety of differing vested interests. Thank you most of all for giving such a good amount of information from differing perspectives.
That is very interesting - I've never realised there was another side to the story and suddenly the nasty rumours about Catherine the Great - another powerful woman - seem apropos.
I wrote a paper on Elizabeth in college for my history major and just wrote an article about her for a HALLOWEEN edition of a history periodical! Thanks for covering her story! ❤️🥰🥰
OOoo this was good. I really enjoy the main story of characters being challenged with alternate views. I love true crime, so i also loved the idea of her being the most prolific female serial killer, however now? I'm not sure. Thank you for an amazing video.
When I was a kid I used to like those cool Hammer studios movies with the blood on bright red Eastman color. Those movies were so fun and atmospheric, with the rolling fog, cemeteries and the Gothic Victorian thing going on and Countess blood with Ingrid Pitt was one that scared me and my sister. Thank you for the great storytelling Dr Katt, it's Saturday and I'm really enjoying these period stories, thanks again 🙂🙏
Great video! Very interesting piece of history. I wonder if anyone ever found mass grave sites around her property and if yes, were the bodies mostly female? If the story of the servant and honey is true, then this woman may be a bad apple. On the other hand, since she was a widowed woman without male support, could she have spread some of the rumors, herself, in hopes of keeping a serf uprising at bay? I have generally found that people are neither the worst nor the best of what we've heard about them - usually falling somewhere in the middle. Another fascinating story well told by Reading the Past. Always enjoy listening and this was a great subject so close to Halloween. Thanks!
Yay! I’m so excited to watch this. Will wait for my dinner tonight though. I’ve been writing a podcast on E for awhile now and am trying to fit all of the pieces I can find together. There’s a small amount of unnerving evidence this may have been made up (or at least exaggerated immensely) by those who owed her money : the nobility. Hence, why she wasn’t killed, only locked away… Though nobles often got off for having money alone, it’s never a good idea to have the king feel he may be less rich than you. Maybe you cover this aspect of her story. Can’t wait to watch. Thank you for telling this tale. I look forward to doing the same 🧡
I don't really think this happened, or at least not in the amount stated. She may have been nasty with her servants and yet cared about the peasants under her rule. Pretty sure there was no end to the mental issues back then given how the affluent were raised. There would not have had even close to enough peasants in the surrounding area let along virgins or girls for her to have killed that many. It isn't like times today where there is decent healthcare and large cities. Also she would have known that more wealthy families would check on their daughters somewhat regularly. I agree with the framing aspect. That is the way that things worked back then and how better to shame a family, keep the lands, and money, that had been in extreme power for a long period of time.
I like the overlap point idea. I have in the past actually been appreciative of her description as a more sadistic ruler, but i am considering more lately that she may have had a similar treatment as Wu Zetian and have been terrifying the nobles while being benevolent and useful for peasantry, because that is a pattern that seems par for the historical course more and more. She's definitely on my list of "if you could have a historical figure to tea", because her perspective would be fascinating. I wonder what she'd make of her own legend....
I’ve always found it interesting that the stories surrounding her couldn’t let her be merely cruel or psychotic, as she was a woman, they all imply that she also had to be extremely vain and her motivations couldn’t have solely been based her own cruelty but rather the stories just had to have that female vanity angle to them. I also LOVE your analogy of the prism, that is such a wonderful way to describe how complex her story is and how we view her ends up revealing more about our own thoughts and biases than it tells us about her.
I love all your video's!! I loved this one it put a different spin on her. My husband did his senior thesis on vampirism and she was a huge part of the myths.
The men who put her on trial had no real evidence aside from one servant who'd been well paid for his information. My family (descended from Elizabet) has stories passed down about how hard it was to be a smart, educated, and powerful woman in a world that didn't like women to wield power. Local villagers had nothing but good things to say about her, which was ignored by the court. Look to the records of who got her lands and properties after her death and note that the same people were all on the court that judged her. You will not be shocked to see the names are the same. She was smeared and murdered because of her family's political enemies and the greed others felt for her possessions. The constant retelling of lies about her still continues, the misogyny of that time being reported as fact when there were none. Go read the trial transcripts and see how thin and ridiculous the 'evidence' was.
This was fascinating. It’s quite a story and one that has been around for centuries. In Victorian literature and Hammer horror movies she was presented as evil and vanity incarnate? Whether she was a sadistic serial killer or a lone woman of power who was in the way of someone more powerful is something we will probably never know. There doesn’t seem to be hard evidence for either theory. I am really enjoying this series. Some more historical crime stories would be very much appreciated.
I've also read a theory that she was acting as an abortionist. If it's true that she had a child before her marriage, and that it was not through consensual sex, then perhaps she felt driven to use her powers and wealth to help those who found themselves in a similar situation. Perhaps, she felt she couldn't turn her back on women who came to her for help. Of course, this is just a theory and we will probably never know.
If she was an abortionist, why choose to go the bloody way to end a pregnancy and not use plants that cause miscarriage? I don't know, it feels like, for an abortionist (if she really was one) she had a lot of lost patients. I don't believe that theory tho, it is a stretch and we have no evidence to it. Her crimes may have been exaggerated but a rich person being a sadist isn't that far of a stretch.
@@ScorpionFlower95 plants were notoriously unreliable as a method of abortion. Perhaps they’d already tried it and it had failed so they felt forced to take more drastic measures. You see this a lot in the later Victorian period too. We don’t know how many victims she had. In my opinion, it was nowhere near the 650 that is sometimes quoted. But surgery was incredibly dangerous in this period. I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that rich people are sadists. Too much of a generalisation for me.
I believe both are true, from all I read about her: she was a sadistic murderer, but also the king owed her a lot of money so this was the most perfect way to get rid of her. I read there is a letter where Thurzo instructed her sons to hurry and tranfer all assets they could under their own name before the trial, or else they would lose it, please correct me if this is not true. Also...if this was completely made up I don't see the need to try and keep the trial and her imprisonment as "quiet" as possible, the opposite should have happened if the goal was only to discredit her with no proof. Amazing work dr. Kat!
I’ve just found your channel and I love it ! I love history (particularly Tudor and Victorian) and I am currently voraciously eating up all your videos! Thank you so much for your time in preparing them for us. You really should have your own T. Show !
Dear Dr. Kat, I am Hungarian and our history teacher told us that she was framed because of her wealth and power. She was known as a noble and educated lady and while his husband was alive nobody could attack her. Her husband was a very powerfull but also a very violent warlord. The first horrific claims come from a jesuite monk probably because she left her catholic faith for the faith of his husband - at that time a big crime in the eyes of the Catholic clergy. There were more accusers in her case and their motives were varied. Bringimg a noble man to justice was only possibel if he committed murder of another noble man but the accusers couldn’t apply this anyway because she was a noble woman. This is very long and complicated story as we learned back then. Thurzó was the chief prosecutor but he did not want to hear Erzsébet’s testimony although the king repetadly asked him to do this. There were no formal trial and judgement, Thurzó closed her in the castle of Csejte (Hungarian name of the castle). This case bears all the features of a conceptual lawsuit. Maria
Thanks for this video. I learned something a bit more plausible about Elizabeth Báthory. Your videos are high quality and educational.👍I'm subscribing now
The Simplest explanation is usually the most accurate, and that is that a very wealthy and powerful person who could treat serfs in just about any way she chose (as the nobility could all across Europe at the time) acted out their extreme emotional illness until she started killing the wrong people.
Hi Dr. Kat I just found your channel and have really enjoyed listening to your stories after work while I drift off to sleep. Sending kudos from Tulsa Oklahoma!!
Wow, no one in the comments seems to believe that people, including wealthy women, often brutally and sadistically abuse other women in whatever way they can get away with.
@@ginagee8737 exactly. People are often in denial of abuses of power and violence against women on this side of the pond (wherever that may be), too. Or they are doing it themselves. Not that every claim of abuse is necessarily true, of course- maybe just in 98% of the cases, lol.
One of the key things I like about your talks is that you make me consider famous people as individuals and to think about their motivations at a personal level which then in turn affect national situations
I'm usually hesitant to watch a video on something I have seen about so many times, but you always have information I have never seen. I love the Halloween themes. Well done!! Happy Halloween everyone.
Wow! Can you imagine if she’s been painted as a villain this whole time and she was really trying to help women make choices. Blew my mind there. Thanks for perspective!
If she belonged to such an influential family, why was there no support of her reputation by her powerful male relatives? She had children, but were there no sons to support their mother? I think the omission of these details is disturbing.
Leaving a comment so the algorithm can make more people happen by sending this channel their way. Great work. Loved all the theorizing abut the multitude of possibilities that baffled my mind.
frankly she scares me too much t think about her much. I've heard the stories before, however you bring a unique perspective to the legends that surround her.
I'm thinking the truth is somewhere in the middle of all. She could be sadist, cruel, interested in anatomy, but also a responsible ruler concerned for her people using her hobbies as a tool to learn more to help young women in her area. Then her deeds were further exaggerated and villified by men not liking a woman in power.
Excellent subject. I have read about Elizabeth before but you have given us so much more information. You always make your videos so very interesting and entertaining.
I ran across your You Tube Channel a couple of weeks ago and have been binge watching ever since! I am now obsessed with the Tudor Dynasty. Interestingly enough, I only held onto 3 college textbooks. Texas history (well because I live in Texas), English History 55BC to 1399, and English History 1399 to 1688. Needless to say I have found them helpful for reference to the family trees to keep the Mary's, Henry's, Edward's and Margaret's straight. Your presentation and insight into these historical figures is very insightful. Thank you for your wonderful episodes.
Just wanted to drop in and say how much I appreciate your clarity and measure of the language. I could image your contribution to academic literature is excellent for lack of Pfaff.
I'm new to your channel and I absolutely LOVED your video, (and of course, subscribed!). Your sense of humor is fantastic and kept this from being just a dry account of historical facts. I absolutely agree, that any attempt to excuse away her behavior with posthumous diagnosis is bullsh*t, and it makes me see the motivation behind fabricating these excuses as nothing more than a way to seek attention or distinction to these "doctors', or whatever their title would be. Nothing about the listed "diseases" accounts for the sheer volume and depth of cruelty and depravity. There is such an overwhelming amount of evidence that it really makes questioning it by any current or contemporary investigators seem just ridiculous and motivated by some self-serving motive. If you are trying to get rid of someone, whether a rival or threat, you don't present a number like 600 victims. It would seem ridiculous and undermine your accusation were there no truth and clear evidence to back such an extreme number. There are just too many factors in the larger picture that has been painted of her to allow for any excuses to be applied.
Thank you for doing this piece on Elizabeth Bathory. I've always been frustrated that the stories about her are treated as fact. The stories are so over-the-top and inane, with no contemporary accounts to support them, that I assumed there should be a huge question mark over them.
Hi Dr. Kat. thank you for such an interesting video, and thank you also for giving both sides of the story, as most previous accounts only focus on the torture and killing. The surgeon/abortionist angle is new to me, and one which is distinctly possible.
Yes, yes, yes! I believe she was just a rich and powerful woman in the way of a man's ambitions and while she might have been a cruel mistress, her crimes were very much exaggerated. I'm looking forward to this video!
Your post sums things up quite nicely. I think one must look at who benefited the most from her conviction and death? The King of Hungary and surrounding nobles, who got her vast estate. Her children had to flee the country and didn't inherit anything.
When Elizabeth expanded her attention to the daughters of nobility, from ages 10 to 14, that could not be hidden. The bodies of these children would have been demanded by their families and would have born clear marks of torture. I can't imagine that she would have been able to pile up the bodies of noble birth.
Love your channel. An absolutely wonderful new twist on an old story. Funny how these particular theories have never been voiced by anyone else before now. All is entirely plausible.
Thank you Dr Kat, for witholding the gruesome details. Though I like your channel, I was very hesitant to watch this video because of the expected content. Now I finally did, and you put me at ease that I can watch your videos knowing you take care of us sensitive souls (of which there should be more).
Haven't finished this one yet, but I have to say I'm adopting "dragoning about" to describe myself on my next grouchy day. Thank you for this!
Dragons gonna dragon.
I think I need to use that to describe my self certain times of the month lol 😆
😆
I definitely feel like I should dragon about more often.
let's be honest, when you've got two possible family origins, and one of them involves a dragon, you're gonna go with the one with the dragon no matter how fantastical it is
I mean, I would lol
Dragons are real
Lol, truth
Yup
As long as it's well trained, I'd go with the dragon🐉any day!
"Dragoning", "fingernail stuff", and "squicky". Man I love this channel.😄
I absolutely adore your lecture style. Your analysis is always so multi faceted and well thought out. I would live to attend a live lecture of yours
Thank you ☺️ this is such a lovely thing to read 🌟
Oh my goodness!! Could you imagine how amazing that would be?? Xxx
Frankly, I’d never considered the fact that she might have been acting as some sort of surgeon or healer or even abortionist. The concept is intriguing and puts an entirely different spin on the whole story.
I cannot see this as a likely scenario. If this was the case, on such a large scale, then one would have expected both some witnesses to this who will step forward (even if disbelieved), or at least that she would have written letters to others more knowledgeable about the matter to seek advice and exchange ideas.
@@Hfil66 A woman practicing medicine like witch craft or abortions would lead to death not only to her but anyone involved. If this was the case, no one would come forward as witness.
@@alessaapathy I think you are rather confusing witch trials with herbal medicine. Herbal medicine was practised widely, not least by monks themselves.
Abortion is another matter, and that could well have been illegal at the time, as it still is in some parts of the world today.
@@Hfil66 I’m not, I’m talking about what regular people would have deemed as witch craft due to rumours surrounding her.
@@alessaapathy Do we know what REGULAR people would have thought of her?
We have records of what the her accusers (people who generally more literate than the average regular person) thought of her, but what does this tell us about what regular people thought of her?
I still remember first discovering the legend of the virgin-killing, blood-bathing countess. I was a young teenager, youtube wasn't a thing yet, but she was featured in scary shows documenting "real life" vampires and other spoooooooky figures. Being a kid who loved scary things, and trusting that the Discovery Channel wouldn't LIE TO ME, I believed it (with a small grain of salt).
Then, she became a really popular figure in the early Creepy RUclips years, where they again mostly just espoused the usual virgin-killing, blood-bathing story. But I was older, and it started to sound a little too fantastic (in the literal sense) for me to take seriously. Then I finally listened to a documentary or podcast that explained the entire political atmosphere at the time, and I started thinking about all the other historical propaganda we've come to believe as fact. Catherine the Great's uh... horse misadventure, for instance.
I've decided that the reality of Elizabeth Bathory was probably heavily colored by politics, but she was probably still a giant asshole to the help.
A friend once pointed out that you can read the novel Dracula as follows (bearing in mind the novel is made up of the "testimonies" of the people who killed him):
A Transylvanian nobleman moves to England. He falls in love with a married, middle-class English woman. Her husband and friends, full of middle-class outrage at this impertinent foreigner, plot to kill him and spin a story that will frame him for shocking crimes of vampirism. He escapes, but the racist Englishmen and their friends pursue him back to his own country, finally brutally murdering him in front of the gate of his castle.
That's not racist. Lol 🤭 It's just nationalism and prejudice against foreigners. The British Royal Family are friendly with the former Royal family of Romania. Prince Charles has a home in Transylvania that is on RUclips
@@gnostic268 solid proof that he's a vampire.
@@dalegamburg8995 fun fact, the Queen is descended from Elizabeth Bathory. So yeah Charles is a vampire.🧛♂️
@@leonieromanes7265 love it!
@@leonieromanes7265 They're also descended from Vlad the Impaler
I firmly believe she was framed. There is an amazing Hungarian historian that explained why very thoroughly. It was a whole political intrigue. Her text is featured on the notes on Hungary blog.
Of course:
1.King Matthias and many other important Habsburgers(and not only them) had huge money debts to the Barthory
2.She was a widow and as widow she were a easy thread in the she lived
3.)She were wealthy,powerfull,influencial and ruled over wealthy and great landscapes from regions of transylvania to regions near to bratislava.That alone made a special neighbor very envy.And the fact she were so powerful made her to a problem for many regional lords that has to be eliminated.
4.) for the rumors around her(witchcraft,satanism,sadistic mass murder)we have still today no PROOFS only the testifies of the so called witnesses that were payed,blackmailed or tormented to testify what Thurzò (the special neighbor and ally of king Matthias) needed to trial Elizabeth Bathory.
And the ally between Matthias and his cheef-investigator Thurzò is prooven by laters wich were found into the Hungarian Staates archive in 1997.And the process-documents of the trial were destroyed shortly after Barthory was arested.Her servants were tormented and under this torment they testified all what Thurzò wanted.After that they were sentenced to death.
That was nothing other then a witch-hunt.And the result was clearly from the beginning of the trial.
6.) we have no physical proofs:in the entire area where Barthory reigned is found no grave of one of the alledged far over 600 victims and no remains of their bodies.
That facts speaks against the story about the psychophatical serial killer with vampiric attitudes.
I dont say that she was an innocent beauty.She was cruel to her servants,vessels and pesants as it were normal for a feudal lord.But I dont think that she is guilty of sadistical,sexual motivated torturing,humiliating and murdering over 600 wimen.I think that it was a political intrigue against her.
I just happen to be reading Rivka Galchen's new novel "Everyone Knows Your Mother Is A Witch" which is based on the life of Katharina Kepler (1546-1622), the mother of the astronomer Johannes Kepler. She was accused of being a witch. It makes you think about why people would accuse someone falsely and why others are willing to believe them.
Have they recovered bodies from the Castle/surrounding area? You'd think if there's truth to it there would be a mass grave or an unusually high number of bodies that match the victim profile.
Good point!
i was wondering the same thing.
thank you for such an educated and comprehensive video!! brilliant as always!
power over other people is the one element which people handle the least well
I remember hearing of some part of her land being filled with bodies in various stages of decomp., but im not sure of how true that is
Great reflection. I think the stories about here were greatly exaggerated, if not totally made up. She was a women with a lot of power in a world where powerful men felt threatened by her. And the blood bathing, I think it says it all that the first sources of it didn’t start to pop up before long after she was dead.
I thought the same thing - those stories that crop up 100 years later are most likely "tall tales" in my opinion.
were at least some of the Salem witch accusations/trials targeted at women who had desirable properties?
The stories may be exaggerated, or may be made up, but they may also have some substance to them.
In comparison, I would ask how some future archaeologist, in the absence of modern video and audio evidence, would have treated stories about Nazi atrocities in the mid 20th century. Even with all that evidence, there are still some people who believe those stories are made up stories. Also, remember, that for all our painting the Nazis as evil people, they could also be caring ordinary people, the way they acted depending on the circumstance, at one moment very caring and at another moment very cruel.
Whether male or female, such people do exist.
@@scrypher I am in no way disputing that it was not uncommon for women to attain power in the past (despite what feminists would have you believe), I was merely saying that to hold on to that power they often had prove themselves to more male than the men. Also, they had to be careful not to remarry (most women of power would be widows, but in medieval Europe they would lose that power if they remarry).
The fact that Cleopatra was a slave owner would have been totally normal for the time. The bigger issue is that she conspired to kill off her siblings to secure her power (although plenty of men did that also, and was at one time standard practice in the Ottoman empire).
@@scrypher Slaves back in Cleopatra's time were from all races and skin colors. Isaac and Rebecca and their sons Jacob and Esau from the Old Testament we're slave owners as well
For me, my feelings are mixed. Do I feel that many of her crimes were exaggerated, such as the number of the victims or that she was bathing in their blood? Yes. And I do find it very possible that she was used because she was in the middle of other males' aspirations.
But also, to me, a rich person who grew up in an environment were violence was the norm and who probably experienced some of it herself, ending up doing the same, isn't unbelievable. And we don't even know if she was the only one abusing her servants (allegedly).
So I think that even tho she was condemned for some things that she didn't do, she wasn't innocent either.
Great video by the way.
I think this is brilliantly put, no one disputes that her husband tortured to death her first child’s father. It makes you wonder if he took any revenge on her too? And if he did how that made her view violence. Often the abused becomes the abuser.
@@christinec7892 Sadly I agree................. all very 'twisted'...............
There are serial killers now and surely there were back then.
I think your conclusion, (including what it says about us) is the best we can presently hope to come to.
She was seen as prime pickings for the men surrounding her and that such a situation, a rich widow,
that many women of the time found themselves in, certainly led to similar male condemnation.
Viz Elizabeth I, who had similar, if less murderous, tales told of her.
I finish work for the weekend at 4pm on Fridays, I always know it's officially the weekend when Reading the Past uploads 🤣🤍
650+ victims seems excessive and suspicious as to the reality of what was going on. Our perception of her is of course colored by the vampire claims and Stoker reference. Love your assessment!
You are such a pleasant and impactful teacher. Love your videos and this one has a whole new view on Elizabeth that I had never heard before. Thank you for your research and care! On another note, what is your little munchkin gonna be for Halloween?
Excellent video, Dr. Kat! It shows a far more well balanced portrayal of "The Blood Countess" in place of the usual propaganda heaped upon her.
I never knew she married and had children. Hey... Dr Kat, what happened to the kids? Her husband sounds like a real piece of work too. Ty
I greatly admire the way you analyse and present your content. Thank you for your work!
Speaking of interesting family origin stories, I'd love to hear you present content on Melusine.
Kay Sea -- Yes! I agree! Elizabeth Woodville (in the past) & Princess Michael of Kent (in the present) both claimed Melusine as an ancestress. It would be fascinating to discuss a legendary foundress of royal/noble houses in Europe.
I also feel that she was destroyed because she had powerful enemies who wanted what she had. She was a woman, and as such, shouldn’t have any power, yet she did.
This video deserves all the love and support! It is a great overview of her life while also addressing the "tales" from story. This is the story, Bathory supporters need everyone to see. #bathorywasframed #powerfulfemalefigure
How to make my day? Getting ready for spoopy season with Dr. Kat ❤️
Dr. Kat is love ❤
Love the new word 'spoopy'
I’m fascinated by the stories about Elizabeth, I’m so excited for you to educate us about her!!!
Her story is one I’ve always found interesting. Women have been vilified through history. It’s highly possible she was framed.
Same, agreed 💯
I don't know about that, but I am full sure that Lucretia Borgia was. That poor girl went through hell, thanks to her relatives.
@@thehighpriestess978 Lucretia Borgia is irrelevant with Erzsebet?
@@fatiht8863 That was in response to another comment saying Erzsebet may have been framed. Lucretia was rumoured to be a poisoner, so I am saying that she was no doubt framed and her rotten family (brothers and uncle) were the poisoners.
@@thehighpriestess978 I think same goes for Erzsebet because these three important events occurred around the same time: Gábor Báthory’s assassination attempt in Transylvania(1613), Zsigmond Báthory’s imprisonment in Prague(1610), and Erzsébet Báthory’s show trial in Hungary(1610).
I don’t believe for a moment that she did what she was accused of doing.
Women with power and money were vulnerable to all sorts of devious plots to divest them of what they had. One just has to look at the Salem Witch Trials to see how women, often widows or women of independent means, could be accused of witchcraft because they owned land that a neighbour wanted, or because of a debt that someone else owed to the woman, or merely because a neighbour just didn’t like her.
Men were less likely to be accused of witchcraft, possibly because men had the ability to defend themselves and had more standing than women. It was easier to pick on widows who had something others might want and/or were generally disliked by a community. One can easily imagine that a rich and powerful widow with property might be the victim of vicious rumours or outright accusations.
Don’t forget that Anne Boleyn was accused of witchcraft as the reason, in part, for her trial and execution. It was an expedient.
For Elizabeth Bathory to be accused by a fundamentalist priest of terrible acts would be relatively easy… and believed. Catholics were accused of heresy and witchcraft by Protestants, and vice versa, as England and Scotland swung back and forth between religions, usually depending on testimony under torture..
I just find it unbelievable that someone would be able to carry out the acts that she was accused of for so long and against so many, including the daughters of gentry with no one hearing more than the odd rumour from local peasants who probably never set eyes on her.
The person this story puts me in mind of most is Baron Gilles de Rais, who only 100 or so years previous in France was accused and convicted of similar horrendous acts, often against children.
Erzebet being a woman in power would only amplify such a response. Think of some of the slanders levelled at Margaret Tudor only decades before or, as you mention, the accusations aimed at Anne Boleyn.
It is nigh impossible to absolve or convict anyone this far in the past, but I firmly believe that these people (even if they genuinely did have a streak of cruelty) were at the bare minimum made out to be far more monstrous than they were... and, in my opinion more likely, entirely framed as part of a power play.
Sounds to me she was the victim of jealousy and was very vulnerable to greedy men who wanted her fortune. And maybe she was a very reserved and unapproachable person. And if I recall correctly she was also related to Vlad Dracula as well and King Mattias Corvinus hated him with a passion too. Oh yes....he owed her lots of money.....oh yes....get rid of her and take all she has....I talked about this with some guys....and the first thing they said?.....oh yes......there's the motive......I truly think she was a victim.
Oh, yes. Let's give the powerful and rich woman the benefit of the doubt. How progressive. Do you think the same way about her accused husband?
@@karlkarlos3545 Don’t be absurd. There’s as much actually credible “proof” that she did anything as there is against her husband. As in none.
Next you’ll be saying that all the people burbed at the stake for being witches were actually witches.
burned.
That’s my region, yay! My hometown is not too far from the Cachtice castle, it’s popular local trip destination. It became increasingly more popular after the movie made in 2008. They even renovated the castle a bit.
Fascinating. I believe there is some truth behind the Bathory story. It's just been, like many other stories, exaggerated just like the Vlad Dracul stories.
Although Vlad did have many enemies, particularly the Transylvanian Saxons and Ottomans, that wanted to see him gone, there's plenty of evidence to support his reputation for cruelty and brutality, with some scholars saying that had he committed the same acts today, they would be considered crimes against humanity and genocide. Through a mix of purges, scorched earth policies and pillaging, Vlad indiscriminately killed many thousands, including his own civilians, and his method of choice was impalement. The most known story, of the Ottomans entering Vlad's capital city, Targoviste, only to find it deserted and then coming upon a "forest of the impaled", 2.5 miles long and 1.5 miles wide filled with 23,844 dead Ottoman soldiers, who presumably died in the preceeding battles, is true. Mehmed II was there and his response is recorded, as is their immediate departure and the revenge they took on the civilians as they fled back to Constantinople. Vlad also wrote a letter to Matthias Corvinus of Hungary, in which he states the exact number of impaled. Impalement has been practiced for thousands of years and was one of the preferred method of punishing criminals and rebellion leaders in Eastern Europe and the Ottoman Empire, with recorded evidence of its use into the mid 1800s and possibly during the Armenian Genocide in 1915, so while many stories about Vlad are exaggerated or even made up, he gained his nickname, The Impaler, because there are also many true stories.
She did things...but no way to the level legend attests too. She was a Widow who had money, power, and a lack of interest in a second marriage. Who also was a political mover and shaker... Yeah no reason at all why they would want her gone.
Thanks for leaving out the finger nail part! I get the hebbie jebbies just thinking about it!
Love the story of Elizabeth Bathory!
It seems like a terrific muddle all round! I do find it particularly interesting though, that the really lurid blood stuff didn't start doing the rounds until long after she was dead. In modern parlance, there seem to have been a whole range of sexed-up 'dodgy dossiers' from a variety of differing vested interests. Thank you most of all for giving such a good amount of information from differing perspectives.
I have rarely heard anyone look at so many angles for what she may or may not have done. Thank you.
I always thought her name was besmirched due to men being after her money and land. This was so interesting, thank you.
That is very interesting - I've never realised there was another side to the story and suddenly the nasty rumours about Catherine the Great - another powerful woman - seem apropos.
Ooo just in time for Samhain xxx
This is one of your absolute best!! Thank you for taking us on such a fair, organized, methodical journey about this fascinating woman.
I wrote a paper on Elizabeth in college for my history major and just wrote an article about her for a HALLOWEEN edition of a history periodical! Thanks for covering her story! ❤️🥰🥰
OOoo this was good. I really enjoy the main story of characters being challenged with alternate views. I love true crime, so i also loved the idea of her being the most prolific female serial killer, however now? I'm not sure. Thank you for an amazing video.
When I was a kid I used to like those cool Hammer studios movies with the blood on bright red Eastman color. Those movies were so fun and atmospheric, with the rolling fog, cemeteries and the Gothic Victorian thing going on and Countess blood with Ingrid Pitt was one that scared me and my sister. Thank you for the great storytelling Dr Katt, it's Saturday and I'm really enjoying these period stories, thanks again 🙂🙏
I love this retrospective. It’s so nuanced compared to most videos about her life.
Thank you for doing a video on this woman. I find her extremely fascinating.
I'M NOT ALONE WITH THE FINGERNAIL STUFF. IT REALLY MAKES ME FILL THE SAME DR.KAT💜
I always wondered how many of the stories of her were fact and how much were rumor, paranoia and fiction. Thank you for trying to parse through that!
Great video! Very interesting piece of history. I wonder if anyone ever found mass grave sites around her property and if yes, were the bodies mostly female? If the story of the servant and honey is true, then this woman may be a bad apple. On the other hand, since she was a widowed woman without male support, could she have spread some of the rumors, herself, in hopes of keeping a serf uprising at bay? I have generally found that people are neither the worst nor the best of what we've heard about them - usually falling somewhere in the middle. Another fascinating story well told by Reading the Past. Always enjoy listening and this was a great subject so close to Halloween. Thanks!
"dragoning about" is my new favorite phrase 😂
I really enjoyed the way you treated this subject. Thank you ❤
Yay! I’m so excited to watch this. Will wait for my dinner tonight though. I’ve been writing a podcast on E for awhile now and am trying to fit all of the pieces I can find together. There’s a small amount of unnerving evidence this may have been made up (or at least exaggerated immensely) by those who owed her money : the nobility. Hence, why she wasn’t killed, only locked away… Though nobles often got off for having money alone, it’s never a good idea to have the king feel he may be less rich than you. Maybe you cover this aspect of her story. Can’t wait to watch. Thank you for telling this tale. I look forward to doing the same 🧡
This was informative. Thank you. Your the only one who ever mentioned her being set up.. I'm impressed.
I don't really think this happened, or at least not in the amount stated. She may have been nasty with her servants and yet cared about the peasants under her rule. Pretty sure there was no end to the mental issues back then given how the affluent were raised. There would not have had even close to enough peasants in the surrounding area let along virgins or girls for her to have killed that many. It isn't like times today where there is decent healthcare and large cities. Also she would have known that more wealthy families would check on their daughters somewhat regularly. I agree with the framing aspect. That is the way that things worked back then and how better to shame a family, keep the lands, and money, that had been in extreme power for a long period of time.
It was when the noble girls started disappearing that she got caught. (According to the book I read)
@@im_so_bored3896 I thought the local serfs would have been Slovak? She wasn't based in Transylvania
I like the overlap point idea. I have in the past actually been appreciative of her description as a more sadistic ruler, but i am considering more lately that she may have had a similar treatment as Wu Zetian and have been terrifying the nobles while being benevolent and useful for peasantry, because that is a pattern that seems par for the historical course more and more. She's definitely on my list of "if you could have a historical figure to tea", because her perspective would be fascinating. I wonder what she'd make of her own legend....
When she wrote to him, saying, quote:
"OUR NEW EV IS THE GOAT"
Well-placed ad.
"Dragoning about". This is my new favorite thing to say.
Great history, from a princess of history. Thanks Kat.
I’ve always found it interesting that the stories surrounding her couldn’t let her be merely cruel or psychotic, as she was a woman, they all imply that she also had to be extremely vain and her motivations couldn’t have solely been based her own cruelty but rather the stories just had to have that female vanity angle to them. I also LOVE your analogy of the prism, that is such a wonderful way to describe how complex her story is and how we view her ends up revealing more about our own thoughts and biases than it tells us about her.
Great video! Absolutely in love with listening to this channel. Just keep dragoning on!
Your videos are simply excellent! I’m completely addicted now
I love all your video's!! I loved this one it put a different spin on her. My husband did his senior thesis on vampirism and she was a huge part of the myths.
Thank you for this refreshing look at a much meligned woman.
The men who put her on trial had no real evidence aside from one servant who'd been well paid for his information. My family (descended from Elizabet) has stories passed down about how hard it was to be a smart, educated, and powerful woman in a world that didn't like women to wield power. Local villagers had nothing but good things to say about her, which was ignored by the court. Look to the records of who got her lands and properties after her death and note that the same people were all on the court that judged her. You will not be shocked to see the names are the same. She was smeared and murdered because of her family's political enemies and the greed others felt for her possessions. The constant retelling of lies about her still continues, the misogyny of that time being reported as fact when there were none. Go read the trial transcripts and see how thin and ridiculous the 'evidence' was.
This was fascinating. It’s quite a story and one that has been around for centuries. In Victorian literature and Hammer horror movies she was presented as evil and vanity incarnate? Whether she was a sadistic serial killer or a lone woman of power who was in the way of someone more powerful is something we will probably never know. There doesn’t seem to be hard evidence for either theory.
I am really enjoying this series. Some more historical crime stories would be very much appreciated.
I've also read a theory that she was acting as an abortionist. If it's true that she had a child before her marriage, and that it was not through consensual sex, then perhaps she felt driven to use her powers and wealth to help those who found themselves in a similar situation. Perhaps, she felt she couldn't turn her back on women who came to her for help. Of course, this is just a theory and we will probably never know.
If she was an abortionist, why choose to go the bloody way to end a pregnancy and not use plants that cause miscarriage? I don't know, it feels like, for an abortionist (if she really was one) she had a lot of lost patients.
I don't believe that theory tho, it is a stretch and we have no evidence to it. Her crimes may have been exaggerated but a rich person being a sadist isn't that far of a stretch.
@@ScorpionFlower95 plants were notoriously unreliable as a method of abortion. Perhaps they’d already tried it and it had failed so they felt forced to take more drastic measures. You see this a lot in the later Victorian period too.
We don’t know how many victims she had. In my opinion, it was nowhere near the 650 that is sometimes quoted. But surgery was incredibly dangerous in this period.
I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that rich people are sadists. Too much of a generalisation for me.
I believe both are true, from all I read about her: she was a sadistic murderer, but also the king owed her a lot of money so this was the most perfect way to get rid of her. I read there is a letter where Thurzo instructed her sons to hurry and tranfer all assets they could under their own name before the trial, or else they would lose it, please correct me if this is not true. Also...if this was completely made up I don't see the need to try and keep the trial and her imprisonment as "quiet" as possible, the opposite should have happened if the goal was only to discredit her with no proof. Amazing work dr. Kat!
Seems really quite reasonable to me. I assume all medieval feudal nobles to be moral and caring by exception only.
I’ve just found your channel and I love it ! I love history (particularly Tudor and Victorian) and I am currently voraciously eating up all your videos! Thank you so much for your time in preparing them for us. You really should have your own T. Show !
Dear Dr. Kat, I am Hungarian and our history teacher told us that she was framed because of her wealth and power. She was known as a noble and educated lady and while his husband was alive nobody could attack her. Her husband was a very powerfull but also a very violent warlord. The first horrific claims come from a jesuite monk probably because she left her catholic faith for the faith of his husband - at that time a big crime in the eyes of the Catholic clergy. There were more accusers in her case and their motives were varied. Bringimg a noble man to justice was only possibel if he committed murder of another noble man but the accusers couldn’t apply this anyway because she was a noble woman. This is very long and complicated story as we learned back then. Thurzó was the chief prosecutor but he did not want to hear Erzsébet’s testimony although the king repetadly asked him to do this. There were no formal trial and judgement, Thurzó closed her in the castle of Csejte (Hungarian name of the castle). This case bears all the features of a conceptual lawsuit. Maria
Thanks for this video. I learned something a bit more plausible about Elizabeth Báthory. Your videos are high quality and educational.👍I'm subscribing now
And while we are on the subject of historical women, I would love your view on Jeanne D'Arc
Fascinating take on this! I had no idea there were so many interpretations of her life and the factors involved! Thanks, Dr Kat!
The Simplest explanation is usually the most accurate, and that is that a very wealthy and powerful person who could treat serfs in just about any way she chose (as the nobility could all across Europe at the time) acted out their extreme emotional illness until she started killing the wrong people.
Just said the same. It's amazing how history has been sanitized through a rosey lense
Hi Dr. Kat I just found your channel and have really enjoyed listening to your stories after work while I drift off to sleep. Sending kudos from Tulsa Oklahoma!!
Wow, no one in the comments seems to believe that people, including wealthy women, often brutally and sadistically abuse other women in whatever way they can get away with.
I totally agree. People don't like to face the brutality and sadism of European nobility historically
@@ginagee8737 exactly. People are often in denial of abuses of power and violence against women on this side of the pond (wherever that may be), too. Or they are doing it themselves. Not that every claim of abuse is necessarily true, of course- maybe just in 98% of the cases, lol.
I agree. I dont think she is innocent. Where there is a smoke there is fire.
One of the key things I like about your talks is that you make me consider famous people as individuals and to think about their motivations at a personal level which then in turn affect national situations
I'm usually hesitant to watch a video on something I have seen about so many times, but you always have information I have never seen. I love the Halloween themes. Well done!! Happy Halloween everyone.
Wow! Can you imagine if she’s been painted as a villain this whole time and she was really trying to help women make choices. Blew my mind there. Thanks for perspective!
Love the look on your face Dr. Kat in the promo picture🤣🤣🤣
This reminds me of another figure from history, Delphine Lalaurie. She was a wealthy woman who was also a serial killer, in Louisiana.
She was absolutely insane.
I am much more inclined to believe the accounts of her crimes to be honest.
I read about her many years ago and was so fascinated by the story. I wanted to write a blog about it but could not remember her name! Thank you!
Love the prism analogy. That really helps us think about the options.
If she belonged to such an influential family, why was there no support of her reputation by her powerful male relatives? She had children, but were there no sons to support their mother? I think the omission of these details is disturbing.
Probably cut her off, disowned her, protected their own interests.
As for her children, little to nothing is known about them
Leaving a comment so the algorithm can make more people happen by sending this channel their way.
Great work.
Loved all the theorizing abut the multitude of possibilities that baffled my mind.
frankly she scares me too much t think about her much. I've heard the stories before, however you bring a unique perspective to the legends that surround her.
The way you speak is hypnotizing I really enjoyed this video ! Very calming and enlighting
I'm thinking the truth is somewhere in the middle of all. She could be sadist, cruel, interested in anatomy, but also a responsible ruler concerned for her people using her hobbies as a tool to learn more to help young women in her area. Then her deeds were further exaggerated and villified by men not liking a woman in power.
Such fine scholarly thinking. Thank you!
I'm a man of reason and logic and I am still choosing to believe in the dragonslayer origin story. That's just too cool.
I know this story. But have been waiting to hear it told by Dr Kat.
Excellent subject. I have read about Elizabeth before but you have given us so much more information. You always make your videos so very interesting and entertaining.
I ran across your You Tube Channel a couple of weeks ago and have been binge watching ever since! I am now obsessed with the Tudor Dynasty. Interestingly enough, I only held onto 3 college textbooks. Texas history (well because I live in Texas), English History 55BC to 1399, and English History 1399 to 1688. Needless to say I have found them helpful for reference to the family trees to keep the Mary's, Henry's, Edward's and Margaret's straight. Your presentation and insight into these historical figures is very insightful. Thank you for your wonderful episodes.
Just wanted to drop in and say how much I appreciate your clarity and measure of the language. I could image your contribution to academic literature is excellent for lack of Pfaff.
Interesting topic . Power of women owning land. Sad for her victims. May have rested in peace. Thank you once more.
I'm new to your channel and I absolutely LOVED your video, (and of course, subscribed!). Your sense of humor is fantastic and kept this from being just a dry account of historical facts.
I absolutely agree, that any attempt to excuse away her behavior with posthumous diagnosis is bullsh*t, and it makes me see the motivation behind fabricating these excuses as nothing more than a way to seek attention or distinction to these "doctors', or whatever their title would be. Nothing about the listed "diseases" accounts for the sheer volume and depth of cruelty and depravity. There is such an overwhelming amount of evidence that it really makes questioning it by any current or contemporary investigators seem just ridiculous and motivated by some self-serving motive. If you are trying to get rid of someone, whether a rival or threat, you don't present a number like 600 victims. It would seem ridiculous and undermine your accusation were there no truth and clear evidence to back such an extreme number. There are just too many factors in the larger picture that has been painted of her to allow for any excuses to be applied.
Thank you for doing this piece on Elizabeth Bathory. I've always been frustrated that the stories about her are treated as fact. The stories are so over-the-top and inane, with no contemporary accounts to support them, that I assumed there should be a huge question mark over them.
The story of Erszabet Bathory is so close to that of Darya Saltykova in Russia; when I first encountered Darya, I immediately thought of Erszabet
Hi Dr. Kat. thank you for such an interesting video, and thank you also for giving both sides of the story, as most previous accounts only focus on the torture and killing. The surgeon/abortionist angle is new to me, and one which is distinctly possible.
I watched a lot of videos on her, this is by far the best. Thank You.
Yes, yes, yes! I believe she was just a rich and powerful woman in the way of a man's ambitions and while she might have been a cruel mistress, her crimes were very much exaggerated. I'm looking forward to this video!
Your post sums things up quite nicely. I think one must look at who benefited the most from her conviction and death? The King of Hungary and surrounding nobles, who got her vast estate. Her children had to flee the country and didn't inherit anything.
When Elizabeth expanded her attention to the daughters of nobility, from ages 10 to 14, that could not be hidden. The bodies of these children would have been demanded by their families and would have born clear marks of torture. I can't imagine that she would have been able to pile up the bodies of noble birth.
Love your channel. An absolutely wonderful new twist on an old story. Funny how these particular theories have never been voiced by anyone else before now. All is entirely plausible.
Throughout history we know one thing: where there's smoke there's fire.
She was framed. So many have been though out history and to the present. Thank you for your interesting channel.
I have been unsubscribed from several channels, this being one of them! Always a great topic and insight. Thank you, Kat!
Thank you Dr Kat, for witholding the gruesome details. Though I like your channel, I was very hesitant to watch this video because of the expected content. Now I finally did, and you put me at ease that I can watch your videos knowing you take care of us sensitive souls (of which there should be more).
This is an epic story. I am basing our Halloween Dungeons and Dragons game on her and her castle 💜 thanks for the inspiration