I love you guys. Real fun to have respectful discussions and hash things out. I know we went OT over an hour. But we will get there next time on those 5 scriptures/passages you wanted to talk about. We will get there. 😃🤙🏼 Much mahalo!
Hey Nick and @Redd Apologetica I would be happy to join the next stream if there is to be one. I am one of JWs, and would love to offer some thoughts to consider, respectfully of course.
@@alcedo_kf What curtain is veiling you? How does that comment help anyone? Come out behind what you are hiding behind and I’m happy to talk with you anytime. Let’s jump on a call! I’m ready.
@@NickHawaii The veil I have come out from behind was the veil of deceit belonging to watchtower. Dont worry, I know the facts, the front, the smiles, the trickery. I have done my homework over many years. Thankfully, when one turns to the Lord, that 'veil' is removed. The light of Jesus Christ shines in the darkness. John 1:4+5; 2 Corinthians 3:16. I hope one day, that if you truly love Gods Truth, you will humble your heart and come fully to the one God commanded his followers to listen to. Matthew 17:5. Salvation is through one name, Jesus, NOT watchtower. Only Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. NOT watchtower, sitting on their billions of $$$, dealing in stocks and shares, real estate, world government, etc etc etc. John 14:6; Acts 4:12. Watchtower is operating behind a very deceptive veil. Do honest research; it means your life. 2 Thessalonians 2:10 Start with their convention hall in Silkeborg, Denmark, which after 27 years of use, they sold in 2017. Its in the 1993 Yearbook.
@@NickHawaii My replies are being deleted. I have to try re-wording what I initially wanted to say. The veil I have come out from behind was the veil of deceit belonging to watchtower. Dont worry, I know the facts, the front, the smiles, the trickery. I have done my homework over many years. Thankfully, when one turns to the Lord, that 'veil' is removed. The light of Jesus Christ shines in the darkness. John 1:4+5; 2 Corinthians 3:16. I hope one day, that if you truly love Gods Truth, you will humble your heart and come fully to the one God commanded his followers to listen to. Matthew 17:5. Salvation is through one name, Jesus, NOT watchtower. Only Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. NOT watchtower. John 14:6; Acts 4:12. Watchtower is operating behind a very deceptive veil. Do honest research; it means your life. 2 Thessalonians 2:10 Start with their convention hall in Denmark, which after 27 years of use, they sold in 2017. Its in the 1993 Yearbook.
@@alcedo_kf You are the one deceiving when you say we are saying the Watchtower is salvation. Good grief. Just smoke and mirrors and not wanting to have a calm scriptural discussion. Read the purpose of the Watchtower in every magazine. You’re just making things up.
I must say this is the most respectful, cordial and friendly interaction between Protestants and Jehovah's Witnesses I've seen here in RUclips. A breath of fresh air from other videos of Protestants seeking to attack the Witnesses. We can learn a lot from you. Kudos to you.🤝👏
People speak out against JW's because of the damage this group does to people, on so many levels. Have you ever heard of a Covert Narcissist? The definition fits the deception of the watchtower organisation. Anyone who wishes to speak out, is shunned, disfellowshipped, labelled, cancelled out by this organisation through its members. People need to be warned properly about the damage of watchtower on the lives of many millions. Ephesians 5:11
Such interesting stuff! I was watching you on 'Teach YHWH, so I found you on your channel (I hope that is ok?). I'm an elder at a church in England, and I just love talking about Jesus. So much so, I very recently started a channel devoted to Him, so His Name can be exalted. I do street preaching, church sermons and home Bible study for all to see. I have subscribed to Teach YHWH and she has subscribed to my channel and she shares my videos. I was wondering if we could have the same RUclips relationship so that the glorious Name of Jesus can be spread to souls who need Jesus Christ, not only to save them, but to transform them. For the glory of God. May the Lord bless you.
First time on this channel and it’s owned my subscription. Very informative and interesting debate. Glad I found this because I always wanted to know what is their teaching and beliefs. Thank you for sharing. God bless.
I really appreciate the kind words! I’m glad you enjoyed it! Knieshia and I have a couple more recent videos on the topic that you can check out as well if you’re interested. Thank you and God bless!
μίαν is used in Genesis 2:24 (septuagint) for one referring to a man and a woman in marriage. A husband and wife are one. How are they one? Hopefully in purpose. However the man is the head of his wife, takes the lead, similarly the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor. 11:3)
John1:1 'In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was >with< (more than one) GOD [ YHVH], and the WORD was [fully] GOD' In Revelation 19:13_16, the WORD returns with a vengeance!
@@JuergenBertram-ps7sy No need to yell. Haha. So you believe the Father was unbegotten. And the Son is an only-begotten god is that right? Also no Holy Spirit mentioned in John 1:1. No trinity proof here.
Please, we need part 2 of this discussion to be made. Untill the complete picture is made and one of the part of this discussion fully admits its mistake
Genesis 16 and the account with Hagar. It was the Angel of Jehovah who came to her. It was the angel of Jehovah who spoke to her. It was the name of Jehovah she called on who was speaking to her. Jehovah, through His angelic representative, the Word, spoke to Hagar, relating all the Jehovah wanted told to her.
@@jwjim , the Angel of YHVH, of course, is one of many Theophanies of the WORD (later on : YESHUA HA MASHIACH) ! HE speaks with full authority as GOD (EL SHADDAI) in the first Person !
@@NickHawaii NP, genesis 19 is really interesting as it's also the only account where multiple angels are worshiped as well and not just YHWH/jehovah's angel. verse 12-19 contextually shows that lot called these angels YHWH/jehovah/LORD .
@@aspreedacore Appreciate your expressions but in Genesis 19:1 it says they bowed down to them. So what? That was common in scripture. Take a look at Genesis 33:3: Jacob bowed to his brother Esau. And did you notice in verse 2 that it says “lord’s”… adoni. Not Adonai. Big difference in Hebrew. Ask yourself are others called Lord (adoni) in scripture? (See Genesis 18:12) Will come back another time.
finished watching the whole video nick did an amazing job, i'm monolatrist neither trinitarian or arian(angel jesus) grow up JW tho I don't think they are false im just not in a place in my life to commit to ministry.
@ErwinMager I respect that now take the same logic to your spearheads of your church and have them explain to you why Christiandom took the lead in persecution of jehovah witnesses in the last 125 yrs,,,go head im waiting?????
That is a good one for them to try to answer. The literal Hebrew is “I will make you God to Pharaoh.” The KJV adds “a” god. It can be understood of course like God or as God too. But the point is well made. If Moses can be called that so can others and especially Jesus and it doesn’t mean the same being or a trinity. Moses would represent his God Jehovah and so does Jesus.
@@NickHawaii Next time you speak to her please ask her that question 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏. I was shocked when she made that statement. I think it was an insult to you at first, but watch she is going to say "She misspoke" or something like that.
@@NickHawaii My man you have to ask her that question about Moses it seems right after that jab she took on you. Like the other person said she is going to backtrack her words and see the term "God" has different meanings and categories. Her statement was not well thought out, but I loved the discussion there wasn't any hatred back and forth like the rest of these Trinitarian videos.
@@noneofyourbuizname8501 I heard her opening statement and I do disagree. I cited Psalm 8:5 as one example and they jotted it down. And we will get there. But yes this was a very different type of discussion that we see on RUclips usually. People wanting to talk over each other and when things don’t go their way they belittle and name call. Not with these guys. And it won’t be that way with me. It’s best just to lay out the scriptural evidence and data and let others hear and see what they didn’t learn in church. Thanks for your comments. Appreciate them.
I would love to see a video of the KJV being compared with the New KJV. And ask why did the New KJV pluck out God’s name in Psalm 83:18; Exodus 6:3; Isaiah 12:2 and Isaiah 26:4? At least the KJV has it 4 places out of some 6800 times the tetragram YHWH is there. The New KJV….zero.
The Jews also miss this point in the Shema : ' ...the LORD (YHVH) our GOD (ELOHIM [plural : 'family']) is >one< (echad [in unity, like husband and wife]), not yachid (solitary, singular one) !
I think a big stumbling block for trinitarians is not defining god. Every time god comes up they want to assume the Almighty even though there are multiple definitions for god.
@@jeep1927 I believe you are right on that. The same is true with Lord. Most don’t realize Lord can be used toward others who are not God. Greek doesn’t distinguish….so context. However, the Hebrew does? ADONAI and adoni. LORD or Lord. And even the KJV sees LORD as Jehovah in Psalm 110:1. And Jesus the messianic Lord as Lord. Big difference!
@@jeep1927 And my point for asking the question to this person who said Elohim is plural was do they believe in many Gods? Wasn’t the plural Elohim used for individual pagan divinities, such as Dagon, (1 Samuel 5:7), and Marduk? (Daniel 1:2) Were they also Trinities? Doesn’t mean what they are wishing.
This was a very nice respectful conversation ❤ Nick made a good point about the Greek for one hen vs heis. I would like to get his explanation on mark 12:29 Jesus says “hear this o Israel, the Lord God of us the Kyrios estin Heis “. Meaning the Lord is one. If he properly states this means “one Jehovah” or “Jehovah is one” but has the impression this is only speaking of the Father due to the masculine “heis” which would indicate there’s literally one not as in unity as “hen” would indicate, but as in the number one ☝️, then what’s his explanation on 1 Corinthians 8:6 when it says “heis Kyrios, Jesus Christ” (one Lord) which means exactly the same? Jesus is being called “one Jehovah”
Thanks for asking this question. Before I answer the question do you believe Jesus is Jehovah the trinity? Is that what you mean? Is that what trinitarians believe? When you see Jehovah what do you see?
And yes that would mean One Lord, that is one Messianic Lord. Not that others can’t be called Lord because they can but God made him the Messiah as Lord as Acts 2:36 tells us. Lord doesn’t mean God there of course. God doesn’t make someone else God. But he did make him the Messianic Lord as prophesied.
@@NickHawaii thank you for your response. can you tell me a place in scripture where someone other than Jehovah is called Heis Kyrios? I’ll respond to your Acts 2:36 point once you’ve kindly confirmed that despite there are many lords as Paul pointed out in 1 Corinthians 8:5, no one else is called the Heis Kyrios , the One Jehovah that we read of in the Shema of the Septuagint (Deuteronomy 6:4).This way we are exegeting the text and not reading into the text our assumptions.
@@adechalus There are scriptures that speak of one God and one Jehovah. But when it comes to the one Lord it is speaking of the Messianic Lord Jesus. That is the context of the one Lord. in Ephesians 4:5. He is not being called the one God. His God and Father is. See the next verse. The Father Jehovah is the Sovereign Lord. The LORD God. You can see the difference in Hebrew but not Greek. Greek is context. Do you see the difference in LORD and Lord in Psalm 110:1? One is ADONAI. The other adoni. I see the difference. Do you?
@@NickHawaii Sure, you said: when it comes to the one Lord it is speaking of the Messianic Lord Jesus In Mark 12:29 Jesus quotes the shema. He says "Kyrios estin heis" "The Lord is One" NWT translates this to "Jehovah is One" but we know that the NT is in Greek and doesn't say "Jehovah", it says "Kyrios estin heis". However knowing Jesus is quoting the Shema, we know the Jews would naturally understand that "Heis Kyrios" refers to "One Jehovah". Paul separates the “so-called gods”and “many lords” in 1 Corinthians 8:5 so we know Jesus is not to be compared to them therefore we should stop comparing Him to them, which was Paul’s point. Making this point clear, Paul writes a version of the shema in verse 6- “One God (Heis Theos) the Father and One Lord (Heis Kyrios) Jesus Christ, from, through, and for are all things. Showing the oneness and unity of the Father and the Son. Also it was before His Messianic Lordship that all things were created through Him and for Him. Contrast 1 Corinthians 8:6 to Mark 12:29 👉“‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." Deuteronomy 6:4 👉“Hear, Israel! Jehovah our God, Jehovah is one! Same with Ephesians 4:5-6 " Heis Theos", "Heis Kyrios" No doubt the Jews would've understood what this meant when Paul wrote this. They would've related these words, these titles, to the shema. You asked: Do you see the difference in LORD and Lord in Psalm 110:1? One is ADONAI. The other adoni. Sure, the same difference I see in the distinction between the Father and the Son. One God, One Lord, One Jehovah. Adonai means "thy Lord" and Adoni means "my Lord"; Psalms 45:11 Jesus is called "your Adonai" (’ă·ḏō·na·yiḵ) This word is only used one other place in the hebrew scripture and is in reference to Jehovah - Isaiah 51:22 Additionally, Jesus is called "The Lord" Ha-ADon (Ha-a-down) in Malachi 3:1 ; a title only mentioned 5 other times in scripture by the prophet Isaiah (1:24 , 3:1 ,10:16 , 10:33 , 19:4). A title used only in reference to Jehovah. All of this (plus much more) supports the fact that we have One God NATURE that is shared amongst the Father and Son. Different roles, the Father is greater since all things are from Him. It is His will that all things exist. Then we have the Son who voluntarily became flesh to die for the sins of mankind. Through humility He lowered Himself, becoming a servant, made lower than the angels, put aside His glory, making Himself of no reputation with no conceit, to carry out the will of His Father. For His obedience He was exalted above all, given all authority over all things, so that to His name all things in heaven, on earth, and under the earth will bow, to the glory of God the Father. This addresses Acts 2:36 as well; Jesus exists in the form of God but came in the role of a slave and was exalted back on high receiving the glory He had before the world existed but also inheriting all things. (Luke 22:27, Mark 10:45, Matthew 12:17-18, Romans 15:8, John 17:5, Phil 2:6-7). Jesus was with the Father BEFORE all things. All things were created through Him and For Him. Not even one thing came into existence apart from Him. He is the exact expression of the NATURE of the Father and upholds all things by the power of His word. (Philippians 2:3-11; Hebrews 2:7, Hebrews 1:3, John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:15-19) He is THE Lord, ONE Lord, and One Jehovah that the prophet Isaiah prophesied of, that John the Baptist prepared the way for. ( Isaiah 40:3)
Personally, I believed Jacob literally saw The Word (Jesus) - The Image of the Invisible God - God's personal Messenger, who bares the title of "God" because he represents God. Hebraic Concept of Shaliach.
@YehovahWorshipper Ok so if you are saying so then let me ask you this,was Jesus known to these ancient worshippers of Jehovah God like in the case of Jacob when you said he wrestled with God?
@YehovahsWorshipper well then you are *ABSOLUTELY....* incorrect because Jacob *didn't know* that it was Jesus or even God which the Scriptures indicates so, which means seeing that if he(Jacob) didn't know that means his father Isaac and his grandfather Abraham didn't know too..... either do you agree?
But what I would like to admit - I never saw such respectful confersation even in USA where people obey to law and show much more respect than for example in Russia. I watched many similar conversations in USA but there respect was a show. There was a lot hidden hatrid, pressure to opponent. So go on in this way. Real christians must always show that they obey to Jesus Christ.
I wish people stop treating JW's like toddlers. You can't reason like adults with them and have to preface everything like they are 5 years old. So sad
@@NickHawaii I want to say straight into your face the best example is my husband himself and his cult clan....my husband emmidiate family (our children and me as his wife) is the number one who suffered most because of his gullibility and his no identity stability!!!...all of you are doomed with your masters propaganda!!! Stop using the BIBLE and GOD'S Name for your cult agenda!!!
Josh it is a FACT JEHOVAHS witnesses have the truth. If not, TRUTH DOESNOT EXIST 😂😂😂 A simple ABC aspect. GOD'S name most religions say jesus Christ is God ( TRINITY) Gods name is Jehovah god found in psalms 83:18. Most if not all religions teach when you die you go to heaven like jehovah wasted his time creating the earth for mankind 😂😂😂😂
Bible says that real salvation can be ONLY in true religion. No compromises. You are a goat or you are a sheep. No any other a 3rd way. Death or life. No any other choises. So to find out a true answer to this question is extremely important!
Je dient een beetje biologisch te zijn om trinity Concept te begrijpen. Je hebt unitaire organismen en moduaire organismen, God van de Christenen.is wat modulair met 3 modules God de vader God de zoon God de Holy Spirit.
It’s a talk where everyone wants to be nice to one another. The JW should have explained John 1,3. JW say the word is Jesus. Than Colossians 1,16 where the JW Bible has been falsified. Than Hebrew 1,3.4. There is a plenitude of verses that point to the divinity of Jesus that JW don’t discuss. Hopefully next time the discussion gets more structured and biblical.
Thanks for the advice. Yes we had 5 scriptures we hoped to get to but things take time. We did end up discussing scripture just not the ones you wanted. There was no script. First time meeting each other. You claim JW’s falsified something. Please point it out exactly. One scripture at a time please. Thanks.
John 1:3 is similar to Colossians 1:16 and Hebrews 1:2. Everything came into existence by God working THROUGH his Firstborn angel son. Jesus being the Firstborn, is appointed HEIR by God (Heb 1:2). A position Jesus couldn't be appointed to IF Jesus did any creating. An OWNER cannot name himself his own heir.
Jesus was never an angel. Stick to the Bible. Stick to Hebrews 1. Don’t make up your own reasoning but stick to the wording of the verses. Colossians 1,16 is „translated“ in putting the word „other“ in it even if in your own Kingdom Interlinear this word doesn’t appear. You’re begging the question and don’t have the respect of Gods word. Jesus is not a creation as the wording of Colossians 1,16 in the original text clearly shows. If this fits into your human doctrinal reasoning or not: the Bible is clear.
@@guido0412 : If Jesus had not been an angel, then whom did God SEND from heaven? Galatians 4:4 tells us that God SENT his son. Sons of God are ANGELS (Job 1:6). Why is Jesus compared to angels if he himself is not an angel (talking about pre and post human form of this son of God), I explained why the word OTHER is inserted. It is to help a sincere Bible student understand that Jesus didn't assist God in creating himself (ie. Jesus), Paul uses that same reasoning in 1 Cor 15:27. BTW How did God appoint Jesus as HEIR (Heb 1:2)? Any idea?
@@tongakhan230 that’s a JW bible verse ping pong without any hermeneutical method. Stick to the Bible verse and elaborate methodically on the verse. Don’t try to justify your JW doctrine with playing bible verse ping pong. Colossians 1,16 is falsified and your own Kingdom Interlinear proves it. The Bible states in Hebrews 1,5 that YHWH never put an angel at the place of the Lord Jesus. before skipping around analyse the verses first. Its God word and don’t mess around with it only to justify the theories of your governing body
I liked this respectful and academic way of discussion very much. But I cannot understand why you cannot decide anyhow how to call the God's name? Yahweh or Jehovah... In the bible translation you use most often (King James) is written Jehovah. Translators did so. As in many others. So choose as they translated. This phrase "Yahweh or Jehovah" sounds disrepectful to God seems to me... It looks like Yahweh or Jehovah WHO CARES?
YOU CANNOT DENY HISTORICAL FACT that your paganized Trinity was MAN-MADE and formulated after about 400 years - FROM BRITANNICA - The Council of Nicaea in 325 stated the crucial formula for that doctrine in its confession that the Son is “of the same substance [homoousios] as the Father,” even though it said very little about the Holy Spirit. Over the next half century, St. Athanasius defended and refined the Nicene formula, and, by the end of the 4th century, under the leadership of St. Basil of Caesarea, St. Gregory of Nyssa, and St. Gregory of Nazianzus (the Cappadocian Fathers), the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since
Without Christ you cannot enter the father they're one in glory every names of God, One Glory is of JESUS Jehovah is JESUS' Yahweh is JESUS' one in spirit one in heaven sitting at the right hand of the FATHER So JESUS' is GOD when someone having their faith different from what God' saith, you have to changed that perspective and go back to God for he to show you in spirit what the truth is, so when it all said and done JESUS' gonna be the heavenly one the Father chosen him to be like him, it is not man gonna makes him be the one true God just he and his Jehovah is a spirit I and the father are one in the whole UNIVERSE of his Spirit because it is the spirit RULES with the Father Son And the Holy of Holy. This Chinese Guy not understanding who God is, his heart still close from the truth he is believing on his Own Jehovah is JESUS' Yahweh the spirit of the Lord God Almighty he is the one to all the names of God all these names referred to him and redeem him in all these names in the spirit to be Access in the heavens of heaven in all types of ways to be Glorified. All the time these names use the in the word of God it is JESUS' the word refering to! JESUS' never left out of the holy spirit of God: Never.
You are wrong about me being Chinese and wrong about who Jehovah is too. Do you believe the Father is Jehovah? And do you believe the trinity is Jehovah? Then let me ask you this. Is Jesus the Trinity? Or does his name identity him as the Son of God.
My thoughts on you and i are one, is different when he's referring to everybody being as one, because the father son and holy spirit, all played a part in Creation, which yhwh, means he who created all things, or he who causes to become, for instance, in Genesis, he said let us create men in our image, the holy Spirit was roaming creating, Jehovah created, and all things were created through Christ, the master worker, that's what makes them as one. My belief and thoughts, and about active force, in Genesis, it's God's spirit, they replaced it for active force, which is just a belief, they have no authority to change that, revelation 22 18, states that if you add to you will be added the plagues of the scrolls, take away taken out of the book of life, warning you, good discussion, thanks for the upload.
It’s just one way of describing God’s spirit. A Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, more commonly known as Brown-Driver-Briggs called the BDB also says always of divine activity. The New English Bible has this footnote at Joel:2:32: “The Lord’s spirit-the animating force behind the prophets”. The KJV Companion Bible appendix No. 9, “The Usage of Ruach-Spirit”: “The one root idea running through all the (224) passages is invisible force…Invisible Divine power manifesting itself.” And as the Genesis 1:2 footnote correctly alerts the reader: ““And . . . active force (spirit).” Heb., weruʹach. Besides being translated “spirit,” ruʹach is also translated “wind” and by other words that denote an invisible active force. See 3:8 ftn, “Breezy part”; 8:1 ftn.”
@@NickHawaii I thought I told you I wasn't interested in talking to you, because I believe you have a decieving spirit, and no humility, you act like you know everything, and no one else knows nothing, I understand you've been trained like that, in the organization, but I also was in that organization, and while in it I was like that as well, everyone has a right to believe what they want, you don't have to keep trying to convince me of your beliefs, I no longer believe and or agree with the teachings and policies of the jw organization, my belief through asking Christ to send the helper to help me understand, so the scriptures want be contradictive, and I believe he have, so no need to reply to my post.
@@mac63oh I don’t remember you telling me not to talk to you. Sorry I speak with many persons and wasn’t even thinking about that or who you were. And I saw you wrote “good discussion” and wanted to add something to what you said. I don’t think I know everything and I’m willing to be corrected if someone can respectfully show me scripturally where I am in error. How was I less humble than anyone of us who had that discussion? I know we all have things to work on and if I have that impression I will continue to pray for humility. But maybe you can take a walk around yourself if you are being fair and can be less judgmental. I don’t need to try to convince you of anything against your will. But alright. I will let you be. No one is trying to deceive anyone. I just will encourage you not to be afraid to test all things as the Bible encourages us to do. Wish you all the best. 🤙🏼
@@mac63 Yes, indeed, the whole bedrock on which watchtower stands is one of great deception, falsehood and hypocrisy. Sadly, many nice people have been tricked by this deception. You are right about that deceiving spirit. Behind the watchtower smiles lurks many dark and unclean things.
@@alcedo_kf I can say the same thing as we rip off the mask of Christendom and their history of lies, torture and hypocrisy. If you ever want to walk down that road with me just let me know anytime. 😉
All this nonsense would end if people believe this simple scientific truth. 'No man has SEEN God AT ANY TIME.' - 1 John 4:12,20. All the 'sightings' of God recorded in the Bible were those of Angel REPRESENTATIVES. These angels do not get their names in print because they were just MESSENGERS. The Message GIVER is credited with what was said. (Hebrews 1:1) Long ago God spoke to our forefathers BY MEANS OF the prophets on many occasions and IN MANY WAYS. Jesus too was a means God used in communicating with humans. Hebrew 1:2. John 7:16 Jesus, in turn, answered them and said: “WHAT I TEACH IS NOT MINE, but belongs to HIM WHO SENT ME. God SENT his son (Galatians 4:4). Since this son was sent by God from heaven, Jesus in his pre-human form was an angel son of God. Compare Jesus' words at John 13:16.
Jesus is the means by which God can be with His Creation. God is the source, Jesus is the vessel. The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of *God gives it light* , and the *Lamb is its lamp* . Revelation 21:23 Jesus said, if you have seen me, you have seen the Father. John 14:9
@@alcedo_kf : Please read Hebrews 1:2, Jesus was the means of God speaking with humans finally. Any Envoy could say. '"Listen to me. You would know who SENT ME." That is because as Jesus stated: John 12:. 49 For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who SENT ME has himself given me a commandment about WHAT TO SAY and what to speak. These are called SPOKESPERSONS. Jesus spoke God's words. Not his own.
@@alcedo_kf : I quoted the Bible. If the Bible is the WT thoughts, that would prove that JWs are Jesus' genuine disciples who rely on the Bible. Others who claim they are Christian have no clue what they believe. Which would explain the thousands of sects. Care to explain a Bible based question if I ask?
@@ErwinMager : HERESY noun belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine. "Huss was burned for heresy" Have Christians ever burned anyone? The majority are on the road to destruction - Jesus at Matthew 7:13. Those on the road to life are FEW. Enter JWs. Matthew 7:14.
Most truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.q John 13:16 . Jesus was SENT BY GOD - and called as SERVANT OF GOD. Acts 4:27 WHO IS OVER ALL? Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. GOD and FATHER is OVER/ABOVE ALL and that "All" includes the SON so they are NOT EQUAL THE BIBLE teaches that Jesus was MADE As Lord and Christ and as Son (ACTS 2:36, Prov 8, HEB 1:5), CREATED/PRODUCED/INSTALLED (Prov 8) , COME INTO BEING/MADE (Mat 21:42 - egeneto) and GIVEN LIFE by the Father - John 5:26 and it uses TODAY (Heb 1:5), and uses future tenses and is a prophecy in Isa 9:6 (Isa 9:6, - WILL BE) . If you are called MADE AND CREATED AND GIVEN LIFE, and NEVER CALLED in the BIBLE as Creator or Maker , then you are A CREATION. ALL FROM THE BIBLE From the Lord was this (this is referring to the chief cornerstone who is Jesus) , the word WAS is egeneto (made or came into being) - Matthew 21:42 and the exact Greek word used in John 1:3 - MADE, egeneto (came into being) - JESUS WAS MADE/CAME INTO BEING FROM THE FATHER , yes, Jesus was MADE/CREATED!, See also Acts 2:36, Heb 1:5, 1 john 5 Jesus in FACT mentioned the FATHER IS GREATER than I am. JOhn 14:28. BEFORE he WAS SENT, the Father is ALSO GREATER than Jesus. Most truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.q John 13:16 . Jesus was SENT BY GOD - and called as SERVANT OF GOD. Acts 4:27 AFTER his resurrection the FATHER IS STILL GREATER than Jesus - WHO IS OVER ALL? Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. GOD and FATHER is OVER/ABOVE ALL and that "All" includes the SON so they are NOT EQUAL
Jesus claims to pre exist creation and thus can have no ontological distinction with the Father... One in Glory before creation. This raise's the question, how do JW's account for any ontological distinction in a unified God before creation. Creation is a distinction from God, as JW are not pantheist. This includes anything not God. JW Jesus is a separate being from God created before the creation! But before creation there is only God, you have no separate substance (material or spiritual) to make a Jesus. Christian's solve this dilemma by personal distinction in a unified essence (Glory). JW's must propose a pre creation creation, a time before time, a substance before substance, but the very definition of creation establishes things separate from God. The bible states all things created thru Christ, but if JW Christ is made of created things (form, mind) who comes first? But if Christ shares the same essence as the Father (eternally co existing in unity), all things can come thru Christ.
@@olivetree7756 You are right, Christological debate formed trinitarian doctrine. Before the hypostatic union the Son of God existed in unity with the essence of God in Glory. You need to think about the person/ essence distinction. The word (son) was/is God in essence eternally. The Son is not the Father now or ever in person. God is one divine essence with three distinct persons. Gods essence is ultimately unknowable. We can only know God through the Father sending the Son by the Spirit. Said another way we can only know God by what He does in personal action, not what He is in essence.
@@olivetree7756you have not addressed the unity / part dilemma I pointed out originally. Jesus was a spirit being…. Made of what ? Spirit…? Before creation there was only God. So you say Jesus was a Spirit Being made from God’s own Spirit ? But this destroys Gods holiness. You get pantheism by default. Did God make Jesus from Himself then Jesus made the world? so the world is OF God by secondary means. In contrast creation from nothing causes a distinction in God, by which you now have a separate substance to make things. Gen 1 is the beginning of All things. There is only God before that.
@@olivetree7756 Ok no problem. Let me try again. I am arguing that God is a unified essence, without any parts. God is also Holy. He did not create nor cannot create from himself, of His essence. He will not share His Glorious essence with anything but Himself. Because then you would have God equal to the created thing as it was of Himself which he made that thing. for example God is not a lump of clay, which He took a piece off and made things. You cannot divide God into parts. Pantheism says that God and the creation share His essence. God in all. under pantheism God is a lump of clay, and he used Himself to make everything. Many religions, gnostic, mystical traditions teach this. And they try to become one with God thru various ways. This is intuitive if one sees all things as energy fundamentally, and God is energy. Or all is mind and God is mind. Classical Theism suggests, as the bible declares, God and any created thing are not of the same essence. Think binary 1 or 0. God and everything else. God did not create "of" Himself. God somehow created out of nothing, everything. The One created from Zero everything. This includes any other beings. Here is where you have a problem with JW Jesus and classical theism. If JW pre creation Jesus/word is not of Gods essence then Jesus is of made up of parts, whatever God made him with. JW pre creation Jesus is a separate person and essence (separate being) from God. If JW pre creation Jesus existed before the creation of Gen 1vs1 there is nothing to make a Jesus with. Gen 1vs1 is the beginning of everything, heavens and earth all creatures. It is a leap outside the text to say there was a pre creation, creation. Step one make Jesus, step two make everything else. Gen 1 vs 1 is the start of all created things. Before the beginning there is only God. Another alternative is to say the Son is a separated person from the Father but One in essence. And sharing in the divine essence makes you one with God in essence. But Not confusing the persons. Jn 1vs1, In the beginning was the word... with and was God. The word was God in essence, with God in persons. Can you see the logic here? Now the Divine persons can inhabit created forms. Glory of the temple, Burning bush, pillar of fire, human flesh, angelic forms, dove, tongue of fire ect. But the essence remains united. The transfiguration was Jesus letting the disciples catch a small glimpse of this eternal divine essence/ glory. hope that was more clear.
@ErwinMager sir that text doesn't remove all the other text that prove YAWEH is not Jesus,,,,, it's 6 to one...... for every text that Trinity folks say proves the Trinity there are six that show its a lie. The most important thing we all need to reject the Trinity is God's spirit then be brave and accept the Bible truth AND NOT BE A COWERD. And follow the crowd!!!!!
I love you guys. Real fun to have respectful discussions and hash things out. I know we went OT over an hour. But we will get there next time on those 5 scriptures/passages you wanted to talk about. We will get there. 😃🤙🏼 Much mahalo!
Love you too Nick!! I am grateful!! Haha "maloha " lololol 😂 I can't believe I said maloha lol 😅
Hey Nick and @Redd Apologetica I would be happy to join the next stream if there is to be one. I am one of JWs, and would love to offer some thoughts to consider, respectfully of course.
@@MrMrTyree
That's awesome!!! That would be cool to see another discussion
That would be fun!
Your sister in the faith.
Christian regards.
Praised be , the God and Father of our lord, Jesus Christ. - 2 Corinthians 1: 3.
Nice discussion, can see why Nick was happy to talk to you both. He knows his stuff!
Its when one looks behind the curtain of watchtower, thats what really matters.
@@alcedo_kf
What curtain is veiling you? How does that comment help anyone? Come out behind what you are hiding behind and I’m happy to talk with you anytime. Let’s jump on a call! I’m ready.
@@NickHawaii The veil I have come out from behind was the veil of deceit belonging to watchtower. Dont worry, I know the facts, the front, the smiles, the trickery. I have done my homework over many years. Thankfully, when one turns to the Lord, that 'veil' is removed. The light of Jesus Christ shines in the darkness. John 1:4+5; 2 Corinthians 3:16.
I hope one day, that if you truly love Gods Truth, you will humble your heart and come fully to the one God commanded his followers to listen to. Matthew 17:5.
Salvation is through one name, Jesus, NOT watchtower. Only Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. NOT watchtower, sitting on their billions of $$$, dealing in stocks and shares, real estate, world government, etc etc etc. John 14:6; Acts 4:12.
Watchtower is operating behind a very deceptive veil. Do honest research; it means your life. 2 Thessalonians 2:10
Start with their convention hall in Silkeborg, Denmark, which after 27 years of use, they sold in 2017. Its in the 1993 Yearbook.
@@NickHawaii My replies are being deleted. I have to try re-wording what I initially wanted to say.
The veil I have come out from behind was the veil of deceit belonging to watchtower. Dont worry, I know the facts, the front, the smiles, the trickery. I have done my homework over many years. Thankfully, when one turns to the Lord, that 'veil' is removed. The light of Jesus Christ shines in the darkness. John 1:4+5; 2 Corinthians 3:16.
I hope one day, that if you truly love Gods Truth, you will humble your heart and come fully to the one God commanded his followers to listen to. Matthew 17:5.
Salvation is through one name, Jesus, NOT watchtower. Only Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. NOT watchtower. John 14:6; Acts 4:12.
Watchtower is operating behind a very deceptive veil. Do honest research; it means your life. 2 Thessalonians 2:10
Start with their convention hall in Denmark, which after 27 years of use, they sold in 2017. Its in the 1993 Yearbook.
@@alcedo_kf
You are the one deceiving when you say we are saying the Watchtower is salvation. Good grief.
Just smoke and mirrors and not wanting to have a calm scriptural discussion. Read the purpose of the Watchtower in every magazine. You’re just making things up.
Hey buddy!!
Thanks to both of you. 🎉❤
I appreciate yalls time. Cant wait to do more
This was a blessing to me.
We will get to those scriptures we had planned to go over next time. At least most of them. 😜
I must say this is the most respectful, cordial and friendly interaction between Protestants and Jehovah's Witnesses I've seen here in RUclips. A breath of fresh air from other videos of Protestants seeking to attack the Witnesses. We can learn a lot from you. Kudos to you.🤝👏
People speak out against JW's because of the damage this group does to people, on so many levels. Have you ever heard of a Covert Narcissist? The definition fits the deception of the watchtower organisation.
Anyone who wishes to speak out, is shunned, disfellowshipped, labelled, cancelled out by this organisation through its members.
People need to be warned properly about the damage of watchtower on the lives of many millions. Ephesians 5:11
Well said Nick .
Great explanation Nick
Such interesting stuff! I was watching you on 'Teach YHWH, so I found you on your channel (I hope that is ok?). I'm an elder at a church in England, and I just love talking about Jesus. So much so, I very recently started a channel devoted to Him, so His Name can be exalted. I do street preaching, church sermons and home Bible study for all to see. I have subscribed to Teach YHWH and she has subscribed to my channel and she shares my videos. I was wondering if we could have the same RUclips relationship so that the glorious Name of Jesus can be spread to souls who need Jesus Christ, not only to save them, but to transform them. For the glory of God. May the Lord bless you.
@@lightpeacelife ✝️🙏❤️
Thank you for the kind words! I’ll check out your channel. God bless! :)
First time on this channel and it’s owned my subscription.
Very informative and interesting debate. Glad I found this because I always wanted to know what is their teaching and beliefs.
Thank you for sharing. God bless.
I really appreciate the kind words! I’m glad you enjoyed it! Knieshia and I have a couple more recent videos on the topic that you can check out as well if you’re interested. Thank you and God bless!
JWs have a site available in over 1,000 languages. All what they believe is there for anyone to read, free of charge.
μίαν is used in Genesis 2:24 (septuagint) for one referring to a man and a woman in marriage.
A husband and wife are one. How are they one? Hopefully in purpose. However the man is the head of his wife, takes the lead, similarly the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor. 11:3)
Jesus is the Word, Jehovah’s chief spokesman
John1:1 'In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was >with< (more than one) GOD [ YHVH], and the WORD was [fully] GOD'
In Revelation 19:13_16, the WORD returns with a vengeance!
@@JuergenBertram-ps7sy
You believe God was with God?
@@NickHawaii , the WORD, of course, became the Only Begotten of the Heavenly FATHER (Psalm 2:7; John 1:14.) [please, read the two Scriptures] !
@@NickHawaii , yes, Nick, because our GOD (YHVH) is by HIS [The Spokesman is the WORD] own disclosure TRIUNE, if you can comprehend it or not !
@@JuergenBertram-ps7sy
No need to yell. Haha. So you believe the Father was unbegotten. And the Son is an only-begotten god is that right?
Also no Holy Spirit mentioned in John 1:1. No trinity proof here.
It makes perfect sense. He contended with God by wrestling with an Angel
I look forward to follow up videos on this discussion.
Please, we need part 2 of this discussion to be made. Untill the complete picture is made and one of the part of this discussion fully admits its mistake
We plan on having the second part. Hope to soon. 5 main scriptures will be discussed that James asked about. Thanks for listening.
Genesis 16 and the account with Hagar. It was the Angel of Jehovah who came to her. It was the angel of Jehovah who spoke to her. It was the name of Jehovah she called on who was speaking to her.
Jehovah, through His angelic representative, the Word, spoke to Hagar, relating all the Jehovah wanted told to her.
@@jwjim , the Angel of YHVH, of course, is one of many Theophanies of the WORD (later on : YESHUA HA MASHIACH) !
HE speaks with full authority as GOD (EL SHADDAI) in the first Person !
@@JuergenBertram-ps7sy Lot referred to the angels as LORD in genesis 19...
@@aspreedacore
Can you supply the verse please.
And does it really say LORD in the Hebrew or God’s Name YHWH/Yehowah or Jehovah in English?
@@NickHawaii NP, genesis 19 is really interesting as it's also the only account where multiple angels are worshiped as well and not just YHWH/jehovah's angel. verse 12-19 contextually shows that lot called these angels YHWH/jehovah/LORD .
@@aspreedacore
Appreciate your expressions but in Genesis 19:1 it says they bowed down to them. So what? That was common in scripture.
Take a look at Genesis 33:3: Jacob bowed to his brother Esau.
And did you notice in verse 2 that it says “lord’s”… adoni. Not Adonai. Big difference in Hebrew.
Ask yourself are others called Lord (adoni) in scripture? (See Genesis 18:12)
Will come back another time.
finished watching the whole video nick did an amazing job, i'm monolatrist neither trinitarian or arian(angel jesus) grow up JW tho I don't think they are false im just not in a place in my life to commit to ministry.
The first step t o abandoning the Trinity is to let the Bible guide you and step 2 is stop being a cowerd!!!!
@ErwinMager I respect that now take the same logic to your spearheads of your church and have them explain to you why Christiandom took the lead in persecution of jehovah witnesses in the last 125 yrs,,,go head im waiting?????
knieshia said any god with a small “g” is counterfeit or wicked, so i wonder what category does Moses fit counterfeit or wicked in Exodus 7:1?
That is a good one for them to try to answer. The literal Hebrew is “I will make you God to Pharaoh.” The KJV adds “a” god. It can be understood of course like God or as God too. But the point is well made. If Moses can be called that so can others and especially Jesus and it doesn’t mean the same being or a trinity. Moses would represent his God Jehovah and so does Jesus.
@@NickHawaii Next time you speak to her please ask her that question 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏. I was shocked when she made that statement. I think it was an insult to you at first, but watch she is going to say "She misspoke" or something like that.
@@thumperthumper6889 It was in her opening statement premeditated of course it was insulting, but my man didn't let that slide jab get to him.
@@NickHawaii My man you have to ask her that question about Moses it seems right after that jab she took on you. Like the other person said she is going to backtrack her words and see the term "God" has different meanings and categories. Her statement was not well thought out, but I loved the discussion there wasn't any hatred back and forth like the rest of these Trinitarian videos.
@@noneofyourbuizname8501
I heard her opening statement and I do disagree. I cited Psalm 8:5 as one example and they jotted it down. And we will get there. But yes this was a very different type of discussion that we see on RUclips usually. People wanting to talk over each other and when things don’t go their way they belittle and name call. Not with these guys. And it won’t be that way with me. It’s best just to lay out the scriptural evidence and data and let others hear and see what they didn’t learn in church. Thanks for your comments. Appreciate them.
Can you use both King James Bible and compare with the new world translation of the Jehovah witnesses Bible in the future Thank you
@@videoshortmew yes I actually do that on my channel all the time. Makes it easier to follow, I think. 🙂🙂🙂✝️🙏❤️
I would love to see a video of the KJV being compared with the New KJV. And ask why did the New KJV pluck out God’s name in Psalm 83:18; Exodus 6:3; Isaiah 12:2 and Isaiah 26:4?
At least the KJV has it 4 places out of some 6800 times the tetragram YHWH is there.
The New KJV….zero.
@@NickHawaii
I can definitely respond to that
@@TeachYHWH
When you find time. Book, chapter, verse please where it’s okay to remove the Divine Name. No hurry.
@@NickHawaii
Do you want me to also do one on where it's okay to add God's name even when it doesn't say His name?
The Jews also miss this point in the Shema : ' ...the LORD (YHVH) our GOD (ELOHIM [plural : 'family']) is >one< (echad [in unity, like husband and wife]), not yachid (solitary, singular one) !
So let’s take Elohim for instance. You believe in many Gods?
I think a big stumbling block for trinitarians is not defining god. Every time god comes up they want to assume the Almighty even though there are multiple definitions for god.
@@jeep1927
I believe you are right on that. The same is true with Lord. Most don’t realize Lord can be used toward others who are not God. Greek doesn’t distinguish….so context. However, the Hebrew does? ADONAI and adoni. LORD or Lord. And even the KJV sees LORD as Jehovah in Psalm 110:1. And Jesus the messianic Lord as Lord.
Big difference!
@@jeep1927
And my point for asking the question to this person who said Elohim is plural was do they believe in many Gods?
Wasn’t the plural Elohim used for individual pagan divinities, such as Dagon, (1 Samuel 5:7), and Marduk? (Daniel 1:2) Were they also Trinities?
Doesn’t mean what they are wishing.
@@NickHawaii indeed. Good job
This was a very nice respectful conversation ❤
Nick made a good point about the Greek for one hen vs heis.
I would like to get his explanation on mark 12:29 Jesus says “hear this o Israel, the Lord God of us the Kyrios estin Heis “. Meaning the Lord is one.
If he properly states this means “one Jehovah” or “Jehovah is one” but has the impression this is only speaking of the Father due to the masculine “heis” which would indicate there’s literally one not as in unity as “hen” would indicate, but as in the number one ☝️, then what’s his explanation on 1 Corinthians 8:6 when it says “heis Kyrios, Jesus Christ” (one Lord) which means exactly the same? Jesus is being called “one Jehovah”
Thanks for asking this question. Before I answer the question do you believe Jesus is Jehovah the trinity? Is that what you mean? Is that what trinitarians believe?
When you see Jehovah what do you see?
And yes that would mean One Lord, that is one Messianic Lord. Not that others can’t be called Lord because they can but God made him the Messiah as Lord as Acts 2:36 tells us. Lord doesn’t mean God there of course. God doesn’t make someone else God. But he did make him the Messianic Lord as prophesied.
@@NickHawaii thank you for your response. can you tell me a place in scripture where someone other than Jehovah is called Heis Kyrios?
I’ll respond to your Acts 2:36 point once you’ve kindly confirmed that despite there are many lords as Paul pointed out in 1 Corinthians 8:5, no one else is called the Heis Kyrios , the One Jehovah that we read of in the Shema of the Septuagint (Deuteronomy 6:4).This way we are exegeting the text and not reading into the text our assumptions.
@@adechalus
There are scriptures that speak of one God and one Jehovah. But when it comes to the one Lord it is speaking of the Messianic Lord Jesus. That is the context of the one Lord.
in Ephesians 4:5. He is not being called the one God. His God and Father is. See the next verse.
The Father Jehovah is the Sovereign Lord. The LORD God.
You can see the difference in Hebrew but not Greek. Greek is context.
Do you see the difference in LORD and Lord in Psalm 110:1?
One is ADONAI. The other adoni. I see the difference. Do you?
@@NickHawaii Sure, you said: when it comes to the one Lord it is speaking of the Messianic Lord Jesus
In Mark 12:29 Jesus quotes the shema. He says "Kyrios estin heis" "The Lord is One"
NWT translates this to "Jehovah is One" but we know that the NT is in Greek and doesn't say "Jehovah", it says "Kyrios estin heis". However knowing Jesus is quoting the Shema, we know the Jews would naturally understand that "Heis Kyrios" refers to "One Jehovah".
Paul separates the “so-called gods”and “many lords” in 1 Corinthians 8:5 so we know Jesus is not to be compared to them therefore we should stop comparing Him to them, which was Paul’s point. Making this point clear, Paul writes a version of the shema in verse 6- “One God (Heis Theos) the Father and One Lord (Heis Kyrios) Jesus Christ, from, through, and for are all things. Showing the oneness and unity of the Father and the Son. Also it was before His Messianic Lordship that all things were created through Him and for Him.
Contrast 1 Corinthians 8:6 to Mark 12:29 👉“‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one."
Deuteronomy 6:4 👉“Hear, Israel! Jehovah our God, Jehovah is one!
Same with Ephesians 4:5-6 " Heis Theos", "Heis Kyrios"
No doubt the Jews would've understood what this meant when Paul wrote this. They would've related these words, these titles, to the shema.
You asked: Do you see the difference in LORD and Lord in Psalm 110:1? One is ADONAI. The other adoni.
Sure, the same difference I see in the distinction between the Father and the Son. One God, One Lord, One Jehovah.
Adonai means "thy Lord" and Adoni means "my Lord"; Psalms 45:11 Jesus is called "your Adonai" (’ă·ḏō·na·yiḵ) This word is only used one other place in the hebrew scripture and is in reference to Jehovah - Isaiah 51:22
Additionally, Jesus is called "The Lord" Ha-ADon (Ha-a-down) in Malachi 3:1 ; a title only mentioned 5 other times in scripture by the prophet Isaiah (1:24 , 3:1 ,10:16 , 10:33 , 19:4). A title used only in reference to Jehovah.
All of this (plus much more) supports the fact that we have One God NATURE that is shared amongst the Father and Son. Different roles, the Father is greater since all things are from Him. It is His will that all things exist. Then we have the Son who voluntarily became flesh to die for the sins of mankind. Through humility He lowered Himself, becoming a servant, made lower than the angels, put aside His glory, making Himself of no reputation with no conceit, to carry out the will of His Father. For His obedience He was exalted above all, given all authority over all things, so that to His name all things in heaven, on earth, and under the earth will bow, to the glory of God the Father.
This addresses Acts 2:36 as well; Jesus exists in the form of God but came in the role of a slave and was exalted back on high receiving the glory He had before the world existed but also inheriting all things. (Luke 22:27, Mark 10:45, Matthew 12:17-18, Romans 15:8, John 17:5, Phil 2:6-7).
Jesus was with the Father BEFORE all things. All things were created through Him and For Him. Not even one thing came into existence apart from Him. He is the exact expression of the NATURE of the Father and upholds all things by the power of His word. (Philippians 2:3-11; Hebrews 2:7, Hebrews 1:3, John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:15-19)
He is THE Lord, ONE Lord, and One Jehovah that the prophet Isaiah prophesied of, that John the Baptist prepared the way for. ( Isaiah 40:3)
Personally, I believed Jacob literally saw The Word (Jesus) - The Image of the Invisible God - God's personal Messenger, who bares the title of "God" because he represents God. Hebraic Concept of Shaliach.
@YehovahWorshipper Ok so if you are saying so then let me ask you this,was Jesus known to these ancient worshippers of Jehovah God like in the case of Jacob when you said he wrestled with God?
@ChevyNova632bigblockchevy Yes
@YehovahsWorshipper well then you are *ABSOLUTELY....* incorrect because Jacob *didn't know* that it was Jesus or even God which the Scriptures indicates so, which means seeing that if he(Jacob) didn't know that means his father Isaac and his grandfather Abraham didn't know too..... either do you agree?
Where are they getting that God is three Persons?
Thank you.
Acts 20:30. The apostasy made God into a threesome.
But what I would like to admit - I never saw such respectful confersation even in USA where people obey to law and show much more respect than for example in Russia. I watched many similar conversations in USA but there respect was a show. There was a lot hidden hatrid, pressure to opponent. So go on in this way. Real christians must always show that they obey to Jesus Christ.
I wish people stop treating JW's like toddlers. You can't reason like adults with them and have to preface everything like they are 5 years old. So sad
What do you mean? Give me an example please.
@@NickHawaii I want to say straight into your face the best example is my husband himself and his cult clan....my husband emmidiate family (our children and me as his wife) is the number one who suffered most because of his gullibility and his no identity stability!!!...all of you are doomed with your masters propaganda!!! Stop using the BIBLE and GOD'S Name for your cult agenda!!!
I think he is actually defending JWs, not insulting them. (guess his second sentence could've been worded better) 🤙🏼
@@NickHawaiiI was wondering the same thing too my brother
Josh it is a FACT JEHOVAHS witnesses have the truth. If not, TRUTH DOESNOT EXIST 😂😂😂 A simple ABC aspect. GOD'S name most religions say jesus Christ is God ( TRINITY) Gods name is Jehovah god found in psalms 83:18. Most if not all religions teach when you die you go to heaven like jehovah wasted his time creating the earth for mankind 😂😂😂😂
Funny why is the previous comment now suddenly deleted?
Bible says that real salvation can be ONLY in true religion. No compromises. You are a goat or you are a sheep. No any other a 3rd way. Death or life. No any other choises. So to find out a true answer to this question is extremely important!
BIBLE says Salvation can be ONLY trough Jesus (John 14:6).
@@modernbeorean5647
nobody argues with this
@@modernbeorean5647
Amen!!❤
And one name for salvation - Jesus. Acts 4:12
@@alcedo_kf hallelujah 🙌 amen
Je dient een beetje biologisch te zijn om trinity Concept te begrijpen. Je hebt unitaire organismen en moduaire organismen, God van de Christenen.is wat modulair met 3 modules God de vader God de zoon God de Holy Spirit.
It’s a talk where everyone wants to be nice to one another. The JW should have explained John 1,3. JW say the word is Jesus. Than Colossians 1,16 where the JW Bible has been falsified. Than Hebrew 1,3.4. There is a plenitude of verses that point to the divinity of Jesus that JW don’t discuss. Hopefully next time the discussion gets more structured and biblical.
Thanks for the advice. Yes we had 5 scriptures we hoped to get to but things take time. We did end up discussing scripture just not the ones you wanted. There was no script. First time meeting each other. You claim JW’s falsified something. Please point it out exactly. One scripture at a time please. Thanks.
John 1:3 is similar to Colossians 1:16 and Hebrews 1:2.
Everything came into existence by God working THROUGH his Firstborn angel son.
Jesus being the Firstborn, is appointed HEIR by God (Heb 1:2). A position Jesus couldn't be appointed to IF Jesus did any creating. An OWNER cannot name himself his own heir.
Jesus was never an angel. Stick to the Bible. Stick to Hebrews 1. Don’t make up your own reasoning but stick to the wording of the verses. Colossians 1,16 is „translated“ in putting the word „other“ in it even if in your own Kingdom Interlinear this word doesn’t appear. You’re begging the question and don’t have the respect of Gods word. Jesus is not a creation as the wording of Colossians 1,16 in the original text clearly shows. If this fits into your human doctrinal reasoning or not: the Bible is clear.
@@guido0412 : If Jesus had not been an angel, then whom did God SEND from heaven? Galatians 4:4 tells us that God SENT his son. Sons of God are ANGELS (Job 1:6).
Why is Jesus compared to angels if he himself is not an angel (talking about pre and post human form of this son of God),
I explained why the word OTHER is inserted. It is to help a sincere Bible student understand that Jesus didn't assist God in creating himself (ie. Jesus),
Paul uses that same reasoning in 1 Cor 15:27.
BTW How did God appoint Jesus as HEIR (Heb 1:2)? Any idea?
@@tongakhan230 that’s a JW bible verse ping pong without any hermeneutical method. Stick to the Bible verse and elaborate methodically on the verse. Don’t try to justify your JW doctrine with playing bible verse ping pong. Colossians 1,16 is falsified and your own Kingdom Interlinear proves it. The Bible states in Hebrews 1,5 that YHWH never put an angel at the place of the Lord Jesus. before skipping around analyse the verses first. Its God word and don’t mess around with it only to justify the theories of your governing body
Peace be with you.
Trinity is simple but effective tactic of Satan to deny and disobey the teaching of Jesus and the word and will of God.
@@jomerorobia4140 amen
I liked this respectful and academic way of discussion very much. But I cannot understand why you cannot decide anyhow how to call the God's name? Yahweh or Jehovah... In the bible translation you use most often (King James) is written Jehovah. Translators did so. As in many others. So choose as they translated. This phrase "Yahweh or Jehovah" sounds disrepectful to God seems to me... It looks like Yahweh or Jehovah WHO CARES?
YOU CANNOT DENY HISTORICAL FACT that your paganized Trinity was MAN-MADE and formulated after about 400 years - FROM BRITANNICA - The Council of Nicaea in 325 stated the crucial formula for that doctrine in its confession that the Son is “of the same substance [homoousios] as the Father,” even though it said very little about the Holy Spirit. Over the next half century, St. Athanasius defended and refined the Nicene formula, and, by the end of the 4th century, under the leadership of St. Basil of Caesarea, St. Gregory of Nyssa, and St. Gregory of Nazianzus (the Cappadocian Fathers), the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since
Without Christ you cannot enter the father they're one in glory every names of God, One Glory is of JESUS Jehovah is JESUS' Yahweh is JESUS' one in spirit one in heaven sitting at the right hand of the FATHER So JESUS' is GOD when someone having their faith different from what God' saith, you have to changed that perspective and go back to God for he to show you in spirit what the truth is, so when it all said and done JESUS' gonna be the heavenly one the Father chosen him to be like him, it is not man gonna makes him be the one true God just he and his Jehovah is a spirit I and the father are one in the whole UNIVERSE of his Spirit because it is the spirit RULES with the Father Son And the Holy of Holy. This Chinese Guy not understanding who God is, his heart still close from the truth he is believing on his Own Jehovah is JESUS' Yahweh the spirit of the Lord God Almighty he is the one to all the names of God all these names referred to him and redeem him in all these names in the spirit to be Access in the heavens of heaven in all types of ways to be Glorified. All the time these names use the in the word of God it is JESUS' the word refering to! JESUS' never left out of the holy spirit of God: Never.
You are wrong about me being Chinese and wrong about who Jehovah is too.
Do you believe the Father is Jehovah? And do you believe the trinity is Jehovah?
Then let me ask you this. Is Jesus the Trinity? Or does his name identity him as the Son of God.
My thoughts on you and i are one, is different when he's referring to everybody being as one, because the father son and holy spirit, all played a part in Creation, which yhwh, means he who created all things, or he who causes to become, for instance, in Genesis, he said let us create men in our image, the holy Spirit was roaming creating, Jehovah created, and all things were created through Christ, the master worker, that's what makes them as one. My belief and thoughts, and about active force, in Genesis, it's God's spirit, they replaced it for active force, which is just a belief, they have no authority to change that, revelation 22 18, states that if you add to you will be added the plagues of the scrolls, take away taken out of the book of life, warning you, good discussion, thanks for the upload.
It’s just one way of describing God’s spirit.
A Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, more commonly known as Brown-Driver-Briggs called the BDB also says always of divine activity.
The New English Bible has this footnote at Joel:2:32: “The Lord’s spirit-the animating force behind the prophets”.
The KJV Companion Bible appendix No. 9, “The Usage of Ruach-Spirit”: “The one root idea running through all the (224) passages is invisible force…Invisible Divine power manifesting itself.”
And as the Genesis 1:2 footnote correctly alerts the reader:
““And . . . active force (spirit).” Heb., weruʹach. Besides being translated “spirit,” ruʹach is also translated “wind” and by other words that denote an invisible active force. See 3:8 ftn, “Breezy part”; 8:1 ftn.”
@@NickHawaii I thought I told you I wasn't interested in talking to you, because I believe you have a decieving spirit, and no humility, you act like you know everything, and no one else knows nothing, I understand you've been trained like that, in the organization, but I also was in that organization, and while in it I was like that as well, everyone has a right to believe what they want, you don't have to keep trying to convince me of your beliefs, I no longer believe and or agree with the teachings and policies of the jw organization, my belief through asking Christ to send the helper to help me understand, so the scriptures want be contradictive, and I believe he have, so no need to reply to my post.
@@mac63oh I don’t remember you telling me not to talk to you. Sorry I speak with many persons and wasn’t even thinking about that or who you were. And I saw you wrote “good discussion” and wanted to add something to what you said.
I don’t think I know everything and I’m willing to be corrected if someone can respectfully show me scripturally where I am in error. How was I less humble than anyone of us who had that discussion? I know we all have things to work on and if I have that impression I will continue to pray for humility. But maybe you can take a walk around yourself if you are being fair and can be less judgmental.
I don’t need to try to convince you of anything against your will. But alright. I will let you be. No one is trying to deceive anyone. I just will encourage you not to be afraid to test all things as the Bible encourages us to do. Wish you all the best. 🤙🏼
@@mac63 Yes, indeed, the whole bedrock on which watchtower stands is one of great deception, falsehood and hypocrisy. Sadly, many nice people have been tricked by this deception. You are right about that deceiving spirit. Behind the watchtower smiles lurks many dark and unclean things.
@@alcedo_kf
I can say the same thing as we rip off the mask of Christendom and their history of lies, torture and hypocrisy. If you ever want to walk down that road with me just let me know anytime. 😉
All this nonsense would end if people believe this simple scientific truth.
'No man has SEEN God AT ANY TIME.' - 1 John 4:12,20.
All the 'sightings' of God recorded in the Bible were those of Angel REPRESENTATIVES. These angels do not get their names in print because they were just MESSENGERS. The Message GIVER is credited with what was said.
(Hebrews 1:1) Long ago God spoke to our forefathers BY MEANS OF the prophets on many occasions and IN MANY WAYS.
Jesus too was a means God used in communicating with humans. Hebrew 1:2.
John 7:16 Jesus, in turn, answered them and said: “WHAT I TEACH IS NOT MINE, but belongs to HIM WHO SENT ME.
God SENT his son (Galatians 4:4). Since this son was sent by God from heaven, Jesus in his pre-human form was an angel son of God. Compare Jesus' words at John 13:16.
Jesus is the means by which God can be with His Creation. God is the source, Jesus is the vessel.
The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of *God gives it light* , and the *Lamb is its lamp* . Revelation 21:23
Jesus said, if you have seen me, you have seen the Father. John 14:9
@@alcedo_kf : Please read Hebrews 1:2, Jesus was the means of God speaking with humans finally.
Any Envoy could say. '"Listen to me. You would know who SENT ME."
That is because as Jesus stated:
John 12:. 49 For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who SENT ME has himself given me a commandment about WHAT TO SAY and what to speak.
These are called SPOKESPERSONS. Jesus spoke God's words. Not his own.
@@tongakhan230 One day, you will do some thinking for yourself and not just copy and paste the thoughts of the men of watchtower.
@@alcedo_kf : I quoted the Bible. If the Bible is the WT thoughts, that would prove that JWs are Jesus' genuine disciples who rely on the Bible.
Others who claim they are Christian have no clue what they believe. Which would explain the thousands of sects.
Care to explain a Bible based question if I ask?
@@ErwinMager : HERESY noun
belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine.
"Huss was burned for heresy"
Have Christians ever burned anyone?
The majority are on the road to destruction - Jesus at Matthew 7:13.
Those on the road to life are FEW. Enter JWs. Matthew 7:14.
Most truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.q John 13:16 . Jesus was SENT BY GOD - and called as SERVANT OF GOD. Acts 4:27
WHO IS OVER ALL? Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. GOD and FATHER is OVER/ABOVE ALL and that "All" includes the SON so they are NOT EQUAL
THE BIBLE teaches that Jesus was MADE As Lord and Christ and as Son (ACTS 2:36, Prov 8, HEB 1:5), CREATED/PRODUCED/INSTALLED (Prov 8) , COME INTO BEING/MADE (Mat 21:42 - egeneto) and GIVEN LIFE by the Father - John 5:26 and it uses TODAY (Heb 1:5), and uses future tenses and is a prophecy in Isa 9:6 (Isa 9:6, - WILL BE) . If you are called MADE AND CREATED AND GIVEN LIFE, and NEVER CALLED in the BIBLE as Creator or Maker , then you are A CREATION. ALL FROM THE BIBLE
From the Lord was this (this is referring to the chief cornerstone who is Jesus) , the word WAS is egeneto (made or came into being) - Matthew 21:42 and the exact Greek word used in John 1:3 - MADE, egeneto (came into being) - JESUS WAS MADE/CAME INTO BEING FROM THE FATHER , yes, Jesus was MADE/CREATED!, See also Acts 2:36, Heb 1:5, 1 john 5
Jesus in FACT mentioned the FATHER IS GREATER than I am. JOhn 14:28. BEFORE he WAS SENT, the Father is ALSO GREATER than Jesus.
Most truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.q John 13:16 . Jesus was SENT BY GOD - and called as SERVANT OF GOD. Acts 4:27
AFTER his resurrection the FATHER IS STILL GREATER than Jesus - WHO IS OVER ALL? Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. GOD and FATHER is OVER/ABOVE ALL and that "All" includes the SON so they are NOT EQUAL
Jesus claims to pre exist creation and thus can have no ontological distinction with the Father... One in Glory before creation.
This raise's the question, how do JW's account for any ontological distinction in a unified God before creation. Creation is a distinction from God, as JW are not pantheist. This includes anything not God. JW Jesus is a separate being from God created before the creation! But before creation there is only God, you have no separate substance (material or spiritual) to make a Jesus. Christian's solve this dilemma by personal distinction in a unified essence (Glory). JW's must propose a pre creation creation, a time before time, a substance before substance, but the very definition of creation establishes things separate from God. The bible states all things created thru Christ, but if JW Christ is made of created things (form, mind) who comes first? But if Christ shares the same essence as the Father (eternally co existing in unity), all things can come thru Christ.
@@olivetree7756
Trinitarians want to see homoousios, same being.
Something the Bible does not teach.
@@olivetree7756 You are right, Christological debate formed trinitarian doctrine. Before the hypostatic union the Son of God existed in unity with the essence of God in Glory. You need to think about the person/ essence distinction. The word (son) was/is God in essence eternally. The Son is not the Father now or ever in person. God is one divine essence with three distinct persons. Gods essence is ultimately unknowable. We can only know God through the Father sending the Son by the Spirit. Said another way we can only know God by what He does in personal action, not what He is in essence.
@@olivetree7756you have not addressed the unity / part dilemma I pointed out originally. Jesus was a spirit being…. Made of what ? Spirit…? Before creation there was only God. So you say Jesus was a Spirit Being made from God’s own Spirit ? But this destroys Gods holiness. You get pantheism by default. Did God make Jesus from Himself then Jesus made the world? so the world is OF God by secondary means. In contrast creation from nothing causes a distinction in God, by which you now have a separate substance to make things.
Gen 1 is the beginning of All things. There is only God before that.
@@olivetree7756 Ok no problem. Let me try again.
I am arguing that God is a unified essence, without any parts. God is also Holy. He did not create nor cannot create from himself, of His essence. He will not share His Glorious essence with anything but Himself. Because then you would have God equal to the created thing as it was of Himself which he made that thing.
for example God is not a lump of clay, which He took a piece off and made things. You cannot divide God into parts.
Pantheism says that God and the creation share His essence. God in all. under pantheism God is a lump of clay, and he used Himself to make everything. Many religions, gnostic, mystical traditions teach this. And they try to become one with God thru various ways. This is intuitive if one sees all things as energy fundamentally, and God is energy. Or all is mind and God is mind.
Classical Theism suggests, as the bible declares, God and any created thing are not of the same essence. Think binary 1 or 0. God and everything else. God did not create "of" Himself. God somehow created out of nothing, everything. The One created from Zero everything. This includes any other beings.
Here is where you have a problem with JW Jesus and classical theism. If JW pre creation Jesus/word is not of Gods essence then Jesus is of made up of parts, whatever God made him with. JW pre creation Jesus is a separate person and essence (separate being) from God.
If JW pre creation Jesus existed before the creation of Gen 1vs1 there is nothing to make a Jesus with. Gen 1vs1 is the beginning of everything, heavens and earth all creatures.
It is a leap outside the text to say there was a pre creation, creation. Step one make Jesus, step two make everything else.
Gen 1 vs 1 is the start of all created things. Before the beginning there is only God.
Another alternative is to say the Son is a separated person from the Father but One in essence. And sharing in the divine essence makes you one with God in essence. But Not confusing the persons. Jn 1vs1, In the beginning was the word... with and was God. The word was God in essence, with God in persons. Can you see the logic here?
Now the Divine persons can inhabit created forms. Glory of the temple, Burning bush, pillar of fire, human flesh, angelic forms, dove, tongue of fire ect. But the essence remains united. The transfiguration was Jesus letting the disciples catch a small glimpse of this eternal divine essence/ glory.
hope that was more clear.
@@olivetree7756Good points. I thought God was immutable? Haha. There goes the doctrine of immutability! 😆
The trinity is blasphemy lie lie and lie,,
NO, don't say that!
@ErwinMager sir that text doesn't remove all the other text that prove YAWEH is not Jesus,,,,, it's 6 to one...... for every text that Trinity folks say proves the Trinity there are six that show its a lie. The most important thing we all need to reject the Trinity is God's spirit then be brave and accept the Bible truth AND NOT BE A COWERD. And follow the crowd!!!!!
@ErwinMager in done take care peace and love in Jesus!!!!!