Had a good laugh when you remeasured the same maximum droop without the links. Props for actually doing some testing instead of just blinding bolting things on 👍
If going off-road, it makes sense to use stronger links, especially when you note that people experience failures with these components off-road. Is the $120 you save by going with less-expensive links worth the cost of needing to be towed off the trail and to a garage should your links fail?
The rear sway bar isn’t that important if one of the links failed. You could still drive away without the rear sway bar functioning. What links do you run?
Excellent video. And excellent of you for being able to acknowledge the facts! I’m not sure if you maxed out your shocks? Only way to know is to measure bolt to bolt when flexed out and get those measurements from manufacturer (or take them off and measure again). In my experience I learned that the lower control arms are the limiting factor. If you get MetalTech 4x4 arms or other “mid travel” arms they have an offset bushing which gives you another few inches of droop before contacting the axle. If you go that route… the extended links would be justified. The next limiting factor will be your gas tank on the upper arms. Only 3 link solves that 😂. Just make sure you extend the brake lines before you keep playing… PS… that’s assuming you already have longer coils….
Thanks for the feedback! Yea I need to try some aftermarket rear arms. Already have extended brake lines and 3” Icon coils. So time to play! Did you 3 Link your RCLT beast?
@@DBCoffroad I didn’t. With the Dobinson coils and MetalTech arms I’m happy with my downtravel as Im making custom upper and lower shock mounts to maximum travel. For a 3 link to give me more travel I’d have to either cut into the rear cargo Area for longer shocks or use trailing arms… not want to do either with this build (keeping it mild 😂)
Great video, I decided to run front sway bar links in the rear on my 90series for the extended length. Yet to go wheeling with them installed but it feels more stable on the road. Unsure if that’s due to the old ones being worn 🤷♂️
Do you have extended brake lines? My t4r has the dobinsons 3.5 ims extended travel full kit and deleted front sway bar it'll flex a good bit. I'm just thinking between the rear links and possibly brake lines it could be holding back.
No. The point of making it longer was to keep the sway bar level with the ground. The sway bar is less effective if it sits at an angle. All in all, I’m not sure how much it really matters with the rear bar. It’s pretty soft anyway.
Thanks for the Video....I broke a Yota passenger side OEM rear sway bar link on a trail lol. I think it failed due to the aftermarket lift. Sounded like a gun going off. So I bought the Ironman HD Extended Rear Sway Bar Link Kit. No problems since.
The proper end links allow the suspension to cycle through it's designed travel. Stock links are designed for stock suspension travel, if you modify your suspension you may have to replace the end links to take advantage of your modifications.
Great info! I'm going to be lifting mine soon, and I will definitely pick up a set of the moogs to replace while I'm in there. Was your front sway bar connected when you climbed the ramp? Tinkerer's Adventures did an interesting test with sway bars, and he found that he got the best articulation out of the front end with the front bar disconnected, and the rear bar in place. Having the rear bar in place actually made the front end articulate more.
I did see that video. He’s an engineer and definitely makes better videos than me. My front sway bar was attached in the video. Mainly to just see how much it flexed with everything connected. I also don’t want to take the front sway bar off. The Non-KDSS 4Runner has too much body roll already with both sway bars attached. For Offroad, Apex Design has front sway bar disconnects that should be releasing sometime soon. You just manually pull the disconnects when you go Offroad and reconnect them for the pavement. Just waiting for those to launch. You should check out their Instagram. @apexdesignusa Thanks for the comment!
I have the OCD links from when I lifted the 4r 2 years ago. I had the same reasoning that the rear ones bind but now it seems those didn’t matter. It’s probably better though since I’ve seen snapped and bent stock links, depends how one really wheels specially with bigger and heavier tires/heavy armor
So it’s actually not to meant to go as long as I showed on the table. The lower portion of the link has a jam nut to set the length. But the upper portion only has the nut to secure it to the frame of the 4Runner. The top needs an additional jam nut, but there really isn’t any space for it.
You should try that ramp with no rear shocks and no links. I wish I had a ramp here or I would do it. My money is on more travel as long as those 2 things don't interfere
Yea I still have the front connected Yea I watch all his videos. He definitely does good work and breaks them down really well. I’ll probably have to get a stiffer rear sway bar.
@@DBCoffroad Kai made some comment about the rear sway hitting? I'll have to watch it again to see exactly what he said.....but I guess it makes sense, no additional flex, just the sway bar sitting where it belongs. The stiffer rear definitely forced my front to work more. I also added small spacers on the top of my 6112s, so I could soften my preload by a ring....I'm pretty happy with the flex now(also removed my front sway).
i have a 13 FJ 3" lift, broke a OEM passenger side rear link. I bought Ironman's Extended Rear Sway Bar Link Kit for 0-3" Lift Suited For Toyota's. Had them a year now, set on the lowest and have had no problems. I did replace my front links with OEM. 🤷♂
Great video and we enjoy the efforts you point into this video. There are a couple of things worth mentioning. Front swaybar kills your articulation on rti ramp and Solid axle measurement going straight down isn't the correct way to measure articulation. Swaybar on IFS on rti ramp will in a way force the rear axle to be picked up due to the resistance of the stiff front swaybar. Solid axle has more down travel when one tire is tucked and the other one is at full droop. Now it's not a fair comparison to your setup because I have Dobinson IMS long travel but I had to extend my rear links by 4 inches over stock to not bind when I fully flex out. I would say that it's safe to say that Solid axle will droop 2 inches more when it's flexed out.
Thank you for the feedback! Interesting. You're totally right. I should have measured the flexed out travel on the RTI ramp. I also won't remove my front sway bar (it's too unstable on the road for me) so I wanted to see the full flex with it connected. With your extended rear sway bar links, do they not contact the lower trailing arm links for the axle? It look like they would be close if I extended them farther. Thanks for the info!
@DBC Offroad It does look like the swaybar could contact the lower link but so far it hasn't. Weather hasn't been great here in Colorado so I can't do the hard stuff yet. We'll find out this summer lol.
Had a good laugh when you remeasured the same maximum droop without the links. Props for actually doing some testing instead of just blinding bolting things on 👍
Haha thanks. Yea it definitely didn't work out as planned. I still wanted to share the info though. Thanks for watching!
Have the positions of the Panhard bar and sway bar been adjusted to optimized for off-road performance?
If you havent seen Tinkerer's Adventures's video on Sway Bars I highly recommend it! Title is "Articulation vs Sway Bar | Not What You'd Think!"
Thanks!
what about without a link?? would it make a difference??
It doesn’t seem to make a difference. I wouldn’t take the sway bars off the 4Runner. It’s already too “boaty” feeling with sway bars attached.
Thanks doing the hard work, and taking the time to document and share your findings.
Much appreciated!
Love the video but who is the mfg. of the pamhard
The stock Panhard bar?
Man you did a very real hard and professional job thank you bro
Thanks for the feedback. Appreciate it.
If going off-road, it makes sense to use stronger links, especially when you note that people experience failures with these components off-road.
Is the $120 you save by going with less-expensive links worth the cost of needing to be towed off the trail and to a garage should your links fail?
The rear sway bar isn’t that important if one of the links failed. You could still drive away without the rear sway bar functioning. What links do you run?
Great video. I already bought the expensive ones, but NOW I know, haha! Subscribed.
Dang. Well thanks for watching!
Excellent video. And excellent of you for being able to acknowledge the facts! I’m not sure if you maxed out your shocks? Only way to know is to measure bolt to bolt when flexed out and get those measurements from manufacturer (or take them off and measure again). In my experience I learned that the lower control arms are the limiting factor. If you get MetalTech 4x4 arms or other “mid travel” arms they have an offset bushing which gives you another few inches of droop before contacting the axle. If you go that route… the extended links would be justified. The next limiting factor will be your gas tank on the upper arms. Only 3 link solves that 😂. Just make sure you extend the brake lines before you keep playing…
PS… that’s assuming you already have longer coils….
Thanks for the feedback!
Yea I need to try some aftermarket rear arms. Already have extended brake lines and 3” Icon coils. So time to play!
Did you 3 Link your RCLT beast?
@@DBCoffroad I didn’t. With the Dobinson coils and MetalTech arms I’m happy with my downtravel as Im making custom upper and lower shock mounts to maximum travel. For a 3 link to give me more travel I’d have to either cut into the rear cargo Area for longer shocks or use trailing arms… not want to do either with this build (keeping it mild 😂)
@@SandyCats Gotcha. Maybe someday then. Haha.
Great video, I decided to run front sway bar links in the rear on my 90series for the extended length. Yet to go wheeling with them installed but it feels more stable on the road. Unsure if that’s due to the old ones being worn 🤷♂️
Interesting. I didn't know you could just swap the fronts to the back.
Do you have extended brake lines? My t4r has the dobinsons 3.5 ims extended travel full kit and deleted front sway bar it'll flex a good bit. I'm just thinking between the rear links and possibly brake lines it could be holding back.
I did get extended rear brake lines proactively in case I went with an extended travel kit. I think it might just be the links for now.
If you make it longer doesn’t it make the sway bar more wobbly during high speed ?
No. The point of making it longer was to keep the sway bar level with the ground. The sway bar is less effective if it sits at an angle. All in all, I’m not sure how much it really matters with the rear bar. It’s pretty soft anyway.
Thanks for the Video....I broke a Yota passenger side OEM rear sway bar link on a trail lol. I think it failed due to the aftermarket lift. Sounded like a gun going off. So I bought the Ironman HD Extended Rear Sway Bar Link Kit. No problems since.
Thanks! Yea I think we can definitely put much more load on the stock links than Toyota intended.
The proper end links allow the suspension to cycle through it's designed travel. Stock links are designed for stock suspension travel, if you modify your suspension you may have to replace the end links to take advantage of your modifications.
Well said. Thanks!
Great info! I'm going to be lifting mine soon, and I will definitely pick up a set of the moogs to replace while I'm in there. Was your front sway bar connected when you climbed the ramp? Tinkerer's Adventures did an interesting test with sway bars, and he found that he got the best articulation out of the front end with the front bar disconnected, and the rear bar in place. Having the rear bar in place actually made the front end articulate more.
I did see that video. He’s an engineer and definitely makes better videos than me.
My front sway bar was attached in the video. Mainly to just see how much it flexed with everything connected. I also don’t want to take the front sway bar off. The Non-KDSS 4Runner has too much body roll already with both sway bars attached.
For Offroad, Apex Design has front sway bar disconnects that should be releasing sometime soon. You just manually pull the disconnects when you go Offroad and reconnect them for the pavement. Just waiting for those to launch. You should check out their Instagram. @apexdesignusa
Thanks for the comment!
Just take off the front sway bar if you want better travel.
Very sketchy in a 4Runner. Have you done it?
@@DBCoffroad yes. It’s not sketchy. The rear sway bar does its job while on the highway.
@@Clintshandpainted Guess I'll have to try it out. Thanks!
@@DBCoffroad it’s not like we could corner at 85mph anyway
I have the OCD links from when I lifted the 4r 2 years ago. I had the same reasoning that the rear ones bind but now it seems those didn’t matter. It’s probably better though since I’ve seen snapped and bent stock links, depends how one really wheels specially with bigger and heavier tires/heavy armor
I think the bushings just wear out. And I totally agree with you. HD is better for harder off-roading. Thanks for the comment and for watching!
Longer links are to take tension off the sway bar at neutral. Lifting without the longer links binds the sway bar. Its not about travel.
Just avoiding binding then?
Im confused as to why you didnt adjust the ajustable links to there longest size?
So it’s actually not to meant to go as long as I showed on the table.
The lower portion of the link has a jam nut to set the length. But the upper portion only has the nut to secure it to the frame of the 4Runner. The top needs an additional jam nut, but there really isn’t any space for it.
You should try that ramp with no rear shocks and no links. I wish I had a ramp here or I would do it. My money is on more travel as long as those 2 things don't interfere
Currently I'm running into the issue of the 35" tire being too big for the wheel well. I'll give it a shot if I can get another set of 33s. Thanks
Great vid. if every theory or every idea that just made sense was true are you even learning anything?
Exactly! Thanks for the feedback.
Thanks man. This experiment was helpful👍🏾
Glad to hear it!
Great video. I'm in the process of shaping mine out for longer ones too
Thanks! Let me know how it goes
What part number for the moog links
Moog K80380
Sorry for the delayed response.
Do you have a front sway bar connected? Have you seen @TinkerersAdventure video on a similar subject?
Yea I still have the front connected
Yea I watch all his videos. He definitely does good work and breaks them down really well. I’ll probably have to get a stiffer rear sway bar.
@@DBCoffroad Kai made some comment about the rear sway hitting? I'll have to watch it again to see exactly what he said.....but I guess it makes sense, no additional flex, just the sway bar sitting where it belongs. The stiffer rear definitely forced my front to work more. I also added small spacers on the top of my 6112s, so I could soften my preload by a ring....I'm pretty happy with the flex now(also removed my front sway).
Does anyone else find his usage of the standard measurement system on a metric vehicle very unusual and annoying....? Maybe it's just me...
I apologize for not converting everything to the metric system for you. 😉
There's 2 types of countries in this world:
Ones that use metric & ones that have been to the moon.
What year of the tundras rear shock did you use?
You know. I’m not sure. I couldn’t find any Info on the website. I’d have to guess 2007+. They are all the same until the newest design
I have a 2014 4runner with 3” Bilstein lift - OEM front sway bar end links going out I think - anyone have experience with extended front links?
I haven't seen any extended front links. Why do you want them longer?
@@DBCoffroad i dont after some research. Thx
i have a 13 FJ 3" lift, broke a OEM passenger side rear link. I bought Ironman's Extended Rear Sway Bar Link Kit for 0-3" Lift Suited For Toyota's. Had them a year now, set on the lowest and have had no problems. I did replace my front links with OEM. 🤷♂
I’m deleting my front sway, and getting extended rear links and stronger rear sway on my 22 4Runner
Run you’re yota sway less 🤙
Haha. I’m scared to. This thing is boaty with the dang thing attached. Maybe after long travel and stiffer front springs. 😉
Maybe your extended travel shocks are limiting out and not allowing your rear wheel to droop enough. I made a video on how to make up for that
How are the extended shocks limited? That's counterintuitive to me. I'll have to check out your video. Thanks!
ruclips.net/video/NE0afRAaKVc/видео.htmlfeature=shared
ruclips.net/video/xLGqb83kvQs/видео.htmlfeature=shared
I hope these videos help
Great video and we enjoy the efforts you point into this video. There are a couple of things worth mentioning. Front swaybar kills your articulation on rti ramp and Solid axle measurement going straight down isn't the correct way to measure articulation. Swaybar on IFS on rti ramp will in a way force the rear axle to be picked up due to the resistance of the stiff front swaybar. Solid axle has more down travel when one tire is tucked and the other one is at full droop. Now it's not a fair comparison to your setup because I have Dobinson IMS long travel but I had to extend my rear links by 4 inches over stock to not bind when I fully flex out. I would say that it's safe to say that Solid axle will droop 2 inches more when it's flexed out.
Thank you for the feedback!
Interesting. You're totally right. I should have measured the flexed out travel on the RTI ramp.
I also won't remove my front sway bar (it's too unstable on the road for me) so I wanted to see the full flex with it connected.
With your extended rear sway bar links, do they not contact the lower trailing arm links for the axle? It look like they would be close if I extended them farther.
Thanks for the info!
@DBC Offroad It does look like the swaybar could contact the lower link but so far it hasn't. Weather hasn't been great here in Colorado so I can't do the hard stuff yet. We'll find out this summer lol.