ALL solutions to x^2=2^x

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  • Опубликовано: 10 янв 2025

Комментарии • 1,2 тыс.

  • @blackpenredpen
    @blackpenredpen  3 года назад +217

    Solve this by the super square root ruclips.net/video/F_XC9_XSw7k/видео.html

    • @krucyferariusz1813
      @krucyferariusz1813 3 года назад

      what happend if x=0, becouse I can't see 0 in any formula (I mean xe(-∞;0)u(0,∞)

    • @Juan-yj2nn
      @Juan-yj2nn 3 года назад +2

      @@krucyferariusz1813 Shut up

    • @davidbroadfoot1864
      @davidbroadfoot1864 3 года назад +3

      @@Juan-yj2nn LOL

    • @DatBoi_TheGudBIAS
      @DatBoi_TheGudBIAS 3 года назад

      0:09 MaLeFiC lAuGh
      and really? a complex power? brah

    • @DatBoi_TheGudBIAS
      @DatBoi_TheGudBIAS 3 года назад

      according to geogebra, the 3rd root is +- = -0.766664744346434 (346434 repeats infinitely or many times)

  • @jzanimates2352
    @jzanimates2352 5 лет назад +6138

    Best variables for math:
    X
    Y
    Fish

    • @remlatzargonix1329
      @remlatzargonix1329 5 лет назад +95

      JZ Animates .....what about star, square, lightning bolt? ........I have seen that before.

    • @Pete-Prolly
      @Pete-Prolly 5 лет назад +210


      ∑🙂ⁿ = 1+🙂+🙂²+🙂³+🙂⁴+...
      ⁿ⁼⁰
      I present emoji variable in infinite series.

    • @hamsterdam1942
      @hamsterdam1942 5 лет назад +59

      @@Pete-Prolly i see only squares lol

    • @That_One_Guy...
      @That_One_Guy... 5 лет назад +27

      @@Pete-Prolly how did you type the sigma symbol along with the index and number ?

    • @benjaminrosenberg
      @benjaminrosenberg 5 лет назад +35

      @@That_One_Guy... you can copy and paste the sigma (Σ) from online sources or use a Greek keyboard; for the powers (¹²³⁴⁵⁶⁷⁸⁹⁰) you can get those from copying and pasting as well. For the indices (n=0 at the bottom of the Σ), you can get them to look like they're right below the sigma by using superscripts (aka exponents) on the line beneath, so that they look like they're actually under the sigma. See this example:
      Σ

  • @poprockssuck87
    @poprockssuck87 5 лет назад +4785

    Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man WITH fish, and he'll be able to solve for the solutions of x^2=2^x.

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 лет назад +352

      Aaron L Hahahahahaha!!!

    • @RedRad1990
      @RedRad1990 5 лет назад +52

      Give PIERRE DE FERMAT a fish, and he'll FIND A BEAUTIFUL SOLUTION THIS FISH IS NOT ABLE TO CONTAIN

    • @dlevi67
      @dlevi67 5 лет назад +75

      Not only that, but he will be able to continue calculating solutions for all of his lifetime, since there are infinitely many. Not sure what he will eat, but that problem takes care of itself eventually.

    • @rorycannon7295
      @rorycannon7295 5 лет назад +2

      lol

    • @darkseid856
      @darkseid856 5 лет назад +2

      I am confusion.

  • @taflo1981
    @taflo1981 5 лет назад +950

    "This is not a fish yet, but it's almost a fish." Sounds like evolution at work.🤣

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 лет назад +53

      Hahahahahaha definitely!!

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 лет назад +70

      Evolution of equations

    • @Icy-ll5ie
      @Icy-ll5ie 5 лет назад +4

      @@blackpenredpen what do you think about "one minus zero-point-nine*repeating"?
      ( 1-0.(9)=? )
      I think matematicians should invent new numbers like 0.(0)1 with the rule that they can not be converted like this:
      A.b = ab/10

    • @Macion-sm2ui
      @Macion-sm2ui 5 лет назад +13

      @@Icy-ll5ie Lol, but 0.(9) is equal to 1. It's not a some kind of magic, neverending irrational number, but it's 1. It's simple proof: 0.(9)*10 = 9.(9) 0.(9)*9=0.(9)*10-0.(9)=9.(9)-0.(9)=9 So, when we divide this by 9, we get 1.

    • @particleonazock2246
      @particleonazock2246 4 года назад +4

      @@Icy-ll5ie You can readily prove it via the nested intervals and lower bound, or alternatively, Dedekind cuts, if a simplistic algebraic proof doesn't exactly appeal to you.

  • @angelmendez-rivera351
    @angelmendez-rivera351 4 года назад +163

    A more careful and rigorous way of handling the equation z^2 = 2^z is by noticing that if z is not an integer, then 2^z is inevitably multivalued. Namely, 2^z := exp[ln(2)·z + 2nπi·z] for any integer n. This implies z^2 = exp([ln(2) + 2nπi]·z). Now, a few cases must be considered. The first case is that |Arg(z)| < π/2, and the second case is that π/2 < |Arg(z)| < π. It is notable that if |Arg(z)| < π/2, then |Arg(z^2)| < π, and if π/2 < |Arg(z)| < π, then also |Arg(z^2)| < π.
    In the first case, z^2 = exp([ln(2) + 2nπi]·z) implies z = exp([ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z), and z = exp([ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z) implies -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z·exp(-[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z) = -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]. Therefore, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z = W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]), equivalent to z = -W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi])/[ln(2)/2 + nπi]). Notice that if n = m = 0, then this simplifies to z = 2.
    In the second case, z^2 = exp([ln(2) + 2nπi]·z) implies -z = exp([ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z), equivalent to -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z·exp(-[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z) = ln(2)/2 + nπi. Therefore, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z = W(m, ln(2)/2 + nπi), hence z = -W(m, ln(2)/2 + nπi)/[ln(2)/2 + nπi].
    With this, the remaining cases are Arg(z) = π, Arg(z) = π/2, and Arg(z) = -π/2.
    In the first of these three, z = -r, with r = |r|, so -r = exp(-[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·r), thus [ln(2)/2 + nπi]·r·exp([ln(2)/2 + nπi]·r) = -[ln(2)/2 + nπi], and [ln(2)/2 + nπi]·r = W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]). Therefore, z = -W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi])/[ln(2)/2 + nπi].
    If Arg(z) = -π/2, then z = -ri, with r = |r|. Hence -ri = exp(-[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·ri), and [ln(2)/2 + nπi]·ri·exp([ln(2)/2 + nπi]·ri) = -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]. Therefore, [ln(2)/2 + nπi]·ri = W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]), and z = -W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi])/[ln(2)/2 + nπi].
    Finally, if Arg(z) = π/2, then z = ri, with r = |r|, so ri = exp([ln(2)/2 + nπi]·ri), and -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·ri·exp(-[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·ri) = -[ln(2)/2 + nπi], hence -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·ri = W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]), so z = -W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi])/[ln(2)/2 + nπi].
    In summary, if Arg(z) = π, |Arg(z)| = π/2 or |Arg(z)| < π/2, then z^2 = 2^z implies z = -W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi])/[ln(2)/2 + nπi], and if π/2 < |Arg(z)| < π, then z^2 = 2^z implies z = -W(m, +[ln(2)/2 + nπi])/[ln(2)/2 + nπi], in both cases for arbitrary integers n and m.
    This gives the complete family of complex solutions with no extraneous solutions.
    The solution families can be compactified. Notice that exp[W(t)] = t/W(t), so exp[-W(t)] = W(t)/t. Therefore, -W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi])/[ln(2)/2 + nπi] = +exp[-W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi])], and -W(m, +[ln(2)/2 + nπi])/[ln(2)/2 + nπi] = -exp[-W(m, +[ln(2)/2 + nπi])]. As such, if Arg(z) = π, |Arg(z)| = π/2 or |Arg(z)| < π/2, then z^2 = 2^z implies z = +exp[-W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi])], and if π/2 < |Arg(z)| < π, then z^2 = 2^z implies z = -exp[-W(m, +[ln(2)/2 + nπi])]. Again, this solution is complete and with no extraneous solutions.

    • @iloveorganicchem6921
      @iloveorganicchem6921 2 года назад +25

      Wow man

    • @maxprofane
      @maxprofane 2 года назад +18

      You simply answered all my questions about this solution and much more. Thank you very much.

    • @M1m1s
      @M1m1s Год назад +28

      Can't wait for the day where I can understand half the crap that you wrote- if I remember, I might come back here in a few years.

    • @xxocry
      @xxocry Год назад +7

      ​@@M1m1sNah bro you coming back today

    • @johocharger
      @johocharger Год назад +4

      bro took it personally

  • @blackpenredpen
    @blackpenredpen  5 лет назад +80

    Lambert W function intro: ruclips.net/video/sWgNCra93D8/видео.html

    • @michaelschneider4093
      @michaelschneider4093 5 лет назад +10

      I can't wait to watch this and learn in a class setting. I recently took my differentiation exam (calculus 1) and I got 96.6% woo

    • @subhrajyotidutta4725
      @subhrajyotidutta4725 5 лет назад +3

      How do we show the following is a good approximation:
      xe^x~(1-7/9)^(-x)-(1+7/9)^x

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 лет назад +6

      That’s very well done!! I am happy to hear that!

    • @roderickwhitehead
      @roderickwhitehead 5 лет назад +1

      Thanks!

    • @fernandobueno8720
      @fernandobueno8720 4 года назад

      Okay, you expressed the result in terms of the Lambert function. But we wanted the missing root, 0.77, expressed in rationals and complex roots as well.

  • @nibblesdotbas
    @nibblesdotbas 3 года назад +110

    7:48 How does one know in advance what indices (in this case 0 and -1) to use for the Lambert W function in order to get real answers?

    • @cheesefrogsnail
      @cheesefrogsnail 3 года назад +8

      I had in mind the exact same question...

    • @vma011
      @vma011 2 года назад +24

      According to Wikipedia, seems like the indices 0 and -1 are standard when working with real answers with the Lambert W

  • @n4p3r0
    @n4p3r0 5 лет назад +703

    8:47 We know that we know that

  • @daniel-fich
    @daniel-fich 5 лет назад +165

    12:57 Look at the way he looks at his math with passion in his eyes :-D

  • @phyricquinn2457
    @phyricquinn2457 4 года назад +58

    Thank you for producing all of this unique content! I really love these videos!

  • @PlutoTheSecond
    @PlutoTheSecond 5 лет назад +243

    BPRP: It's probably irrational...
    Wolfram: It's transcendental.

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 лет назад +63

      Hahahah yea I know!! I saw that when I was editing the video and I was like hmmmm should I edit that part out. Haha

    • @AndrewBlechinger
      @AndrewBlechinger 5 лет назад +15

      I mean...you're not wrong.

    • @jamboree1953
      @jamboree1953 4 года назад +27

      @@blackpenredpen All real transcendental numbers are irrational. So you are still right.

    • @Phantlos
      @Phantlos 4 года назад +1

      @@jamboree1953 wrong, e*i its still transcendental but not irrational

    • @awelotta
      @awelotta 4 года назад +10

      @@Phantlos if it's not irrational, wouldn't it be representable with division of two intervals and this not transcendental?

  • @GreenArsenal
    @GreenArsenal 5 лет назад +1772

    Who else doesn’t understand anything but still watches

  • @MathswithMuneer
    @MathswithMuneer 5 лет назад +46

    Respect from one math teacher to another math teacher

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 лет назад +6

      Thank you!!!

    • @MindYourFunds
      @MindYourFunds 5 лет назад

      The third root from the graph is obviously a negative x...how come it became imaginary... Perhaps the two math teacher will explain it to me

    • @050138
      @050138 5 лет назад +2

      @@MindYourFunds you didn't pay attention to the video.... The third root is a negative real number -0.7666.... the fourth fifth and so on - Solutions are imaginary, and they aren't intuitive

  • @JyothiSwaroopM
    @JyothiSwaroopM 5 лет назад +37

    I've been trying out this problem since I was in 10th grade of school. Now I'm in the third year of engineering.
    Thanks to you I got to know about the new function "Lambert W function"

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 лет назад +8

      Glad to hear!! Thank you for the comment too

  • @תומרסבן
    @תומרסבן 5 лет назад +340

    the fish is a paid actor

  • @HasXXXInCrocs
    @HasXXXInCrocs 5 лет назад +53

    Prove the Lambert W function! I've never heard of it (haven't taken analysis yet, not sure if thats covered there) and i think its awesome!

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 лет назад +17

      Matt Heitmann I have an introductory video in the description already.

  • @nou3227
    @nou3227 4 года назад +78

    My teacher explaing math: so x is equal to y
    Blackpenredpen explaning math: *_F I S H_*

  • @dihydrogenmonoxid1337
    @dihydrogenmonoxid1337 5 лет назад +101

    I should read a book for english but pen(black+red) math videos are sooo much nicer💯

  • @NektoYa-w1n
    @NektoYa-w1n 5 лет назад +351

    Can you make a video explaining LambertW indexes?

    • @hermessantos181
      @hermessantos181 5 лет назад +5

      Yeah, plsss

    • @peter-hm9iu
      @peter-hm9iu 5 лет назад +2

      Yes

    • @daybitai
      @daybitai 5 лет назад +2

      Yes no Also asks for more

    • @briandohler8025
      @briandohler8025 5 лет назад +3

      Yeah I missed this last step.

    • @psilvakimo
      @psilvakimo 5 лет назад +10

      True. He never describes the LambertW index. I had to use a numerical algorithm to solve it. It converges quite slowly.

  • @Bayerwaldler
    @Bayerwaldler 4 года назад +7

    One can also use the identity 2^x = e^((ln2)*x) and take square roots on both sides of the equation. I think it is a little more simple to work out then. I get the solutions x=-(2/ln(2))*W_0(-ln(2)/2) = 2, x= -(2/ln(2))*W_1(-ln(2)/2) = 4 and -(2/ln(2))*W_0(ln(2)/2) = -0.766664... The terms look a little different but yield the same values as in the video.

  • @atheoristspointofview7059
    @atheoristspointofview7059 5 лет назад +84

    8:45 "we know that-we know that"(pro jump cuts)

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 лет назад +8

      Definitely awesome!

    • @24kGoldenRocket
      @24kGoldenRocket 5 лет назад

      @@blackpenredpen No. It is not awesome. To make assumptions about what your student "already" knows is a poor teaching technique. Yes I can do the algebra in my head also. But you might soon learn that most people cannot. How fast you learn that depends upon your IQ.

    • @z_.v
      @z_.v 5 лет назад +16

      @@24kGoldenRocket true but I think the line must be drawn where he stops explaining every detail and assumes the viewers know what he is talking about, because this is a (mostly) calc-based channel. The instance mentioned in which he states that "we know that" is quite basic, though. I doubt anyone watching this wouldn't understand how to turn a negative (x < 0) value into a positive value by multiplying by a negative value.

    • @anand.suralkar
      @anand.suralkar 5 лет назад +5

      @@24kGoldenRocket this channel is not for noobs he wont spend his time explaining u what log and exponentials ate in every video he have to pre assume that u know basic maths if not go and learn some basics first

    • @24kGoldenRocket
      @24kGoldenRocket 5 лет назад +1

      o@@anand.suralkar LOL. I was a University Math Instructor.

  • @spelunkerd
    @spelunkerd 5 лет назад +24

    Great video. I completely forgot about Lambert, this was an excellent case, where I could have used it if I was creative enough to think of the way out.

  • @lumi2030
    @lumi2030 3 года назад +35

    I did expect it to have infinitely many solutions after I remember W(x) was a multi-valued function, but it still surprised me when I found out it was actually true.

  • @byronvega8298
    @byronvega8298 5 лет назад +95

    From this point on I'll start writing functions that depend on fish rather than x

    • @univuniveral9713
      @univuniveral9713 5 лет назад +8

      Leave endangered species alone, sir. You have done enough harm to our oceans with plastic bags.

  • @ankitdubey9310
    @ankitdubey9310 5 лет назад +74

    Applies Lambert to fish ( e)^ (fish)
    Le fish:
    Allow me to introduce myself

  • @InvaderMixo
    @InvaderMixo 5 лет назад +14

    I love learning, especially math. I love your enthusiasm. It's so uplifting to be in a math moment with you!

  • @eric_welch
    @eric_welch 3 года назад +18

    I have to say I thoroughly enjoy YT suggesting older BPRP vids so I can watch the epic beard/goatee evolution :)

  • @SpaceSwimmer69
    @SpaceSwimmer69 4 года назад +6

    Thanks a lot! I Just finished school, but never heard of the LamberW equasion. Everything else I understood perfectly.
    I liked it so much, I found solutions for the x>0 myself.

  • @tomvanmoer8202
    @tomvanmoer8202 4 года назад +10

    "The fish" lmao, cracks me up every time.

  • @josephsmith786
    @josephsmith786 3 года назад +25

    Alternative solution: x = 2^(x/2), so rearranging gives -ln(sqrt(2)) x exp(- ln(sqrt(2)) x) = -ln(sqrt(2)).
    Taking W of both sides gives (by rearranging) x = W(-ln(sqrt(2))) / -ln(sqrt(2)). No assumptions on signs needed here.

    • @adiaphoros6842
      @adiaphoros6842 2 года назад +2

      You already made an implicit assumption on signs.
      x² = y
      x = ±sqrt(y)
      So your first 2 lines should be:
      x² = 2ˣ
      x = ±2^(x/2)

  • @paulfaigl8329
    @paulfaigl8329 4 года назад +5

    Cool, very cool. I never knew that Herr Lambert was working on photometry, colours etc. and that his W function has so many other uses! Thank you!

  • @bobbrown5726
    @bobbrown5726 3 года назад +1

    The fish is So Cool !!! Great illustration!

  • @serein_11
    @serein_11 2 года назад +6

    This question was in my 11th grade math book. They seriously expect 11th grade students to solve this omg.

    • @samueldeandrade8535
      @samueldeandrade8535 Год назад +3

      Probably you are mistaken. Probably they asked just for positive values.

  • @cbarnes2160
    @cbarnes2160 2 года назад +1

    Lambert W comes up in calculations of current-voltage relationships in solar cells and diodes. Blew my mind the first time I saw it and fun that it comes up in many places.

  • @tch3n93
    @tch3n93 4 года назад +6

    Problem: contain exponents
    blackpenredpen: it's Lambert-W time

  • @vincentnguyen2558
    @vincentnguyen2558 5 лет назад +4

    Thank you blackpenredpen for answering my question

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 лет назад +2

      You’re welcome. In fact many ppl have asked this question in the past. It’s a very popular question

  • @amansharma2957
    @amansharma2957 5 лет назад +7

    Bro You are Godfather of Mathematics Very Impressed by your knowledge..KEEP POSTING SUCH GREAT 😊

  • @alberteinstein3612
    @alberteinstein3612 3 года назад +2

    How does he manage to always teach me something new every single vid?

  • @tarsala1995
    @tarsala1995 5 лет назад +6

    In 100th episode, please show your left biceps. I can only imagine how shredded it is after this hard holding-ball workout

  • @ggonzalezru
    @ggonzalezru 4 года назад +1

    I love your channel, man! thanks for your videos. Cheers from Chile

  • @Frcis
    @Frcis Год назад +3

    0:20 i have subtitles on and i cant see .-.

    • @RB_Universe_TV
      @RB_Universe_TV 5 месяцев назад

      There is litterelly a tower of subtitles 💀☠

    • @hafizusamabhutta
      @hafizusamabhutta 3 месяца назад

      Unexpected, that was. 😅

  • @DinoDiniProductions
    @DinoDiniProductions 3 года назад +1

    Lambert W! Amazing that 1) The function is useful in all kinds of modelling of actual real physical behaviours, e.g. how long will it take for a bucket of water with a hole in it to drain to a certain depth. 2) The function is not implemented in floating point libraries or FPUs.

  • @MaxxTosh
    @MaxxTosh 5 лет назад +11

    Well now you have to find all the values of x for a given n such that x^n=n^x

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 лет назад +6

      Hahahahaha. Replace all the 2 by n then we are done!

    • @angelmendez-rivera351
      @angelmendez-rivera351 5 лет назад +6

      x^n = n^x -> x^n = e[log(n)·x] -> xω(n)^m = e^[log(n)·x/n], where ω(n) = e^[(2π/n)i], and m = 0, 1, ..., n - 1, meaning there are n cases to consider, one for each value of m. Regardless, xω(n)^m = e^[log(n)·x/n] -> xe^[-log(n)·x/n] = ω(n)^m, since 1/ω(n)^m = ω(n)^(n - 1 - m), which we can reindex to be ω(n)^m, since m is a variable. Then [-log(n)·x/n]e^[-log(n)·x/n] = -log(n)·ω(n)^m/n -> -log(n)·x/n = W[-log(n)·ω(n)^m/n] -> x = -n·W[-log(n)·ω(n)^m]/log(n).

    • @ejb7969
      @ejb7969 5 лет назад +1

      @@angelmendez-rivera351 That is intuitively obvious. :{ ) (Respect!)

    • @angelmendez-rivera351
      @angelmendez-rivera351 4 года назад

      ejbejbphone Thank you

  • @paramrajsingh1539
    @paramrajsingh1539 Год назад +1

    I was working on this problem but I didn't knew this vid existed and after few minutes it ramlndomly popped up and seems like my FBI did a good job 😊

  • @pgk2022
    @pgk2022 5 лет назад +20

    This is anxiety-inducing as now I know some of the things I'll have to learn when I'm older.

    • @smoorej
      @smoorej 4 года назад +4

      UNDEADWARLORD 17 for me it is anxiety-inducing because it shows me things I have forgotten now that I am older

    • @angelmendez-rivera351
      @angelmendez-rivera351 4 года назад +8

      It's not so bad. When it's your turn to learn them, you'll be more prepared than you were when exposed to this video for the first time.

  • @braznartn5176
    @braznartn5176 Год назад +1

    Sir... You are truly VALUABLE to our society.

  • @TheDanksNewGroove
    @TheDanksNewGroove 5 лет назад +4

    A more elegant way to write the solution would be -1/ssqrt(√2), where ssqrt() is the super square root from tetration.

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 лет назад +4

      I just recorded a video on this today! Thank you so much for the idea!

    • @TheDanksNewGroove
      @TheDanksNewGroove 5 лет назад +1

      blackpenredpen Wow! Looking forward to it!

    • @angelmendez-rivera351
      @angelmendez-rivera351 4 года назад +1

      It is a more *concise* way of writing it, yes, but the ssqrt operator is strictly defined in terms of W(x) in the first place.

  • @literallyme.realmp4
    @literallyme.realmp4 2 года назад

    "The Lambert W function will give you the fish back" is something I never thought I'd hear

  • @strawhat0000
    @strawhat0000 4 года назад +5

    Everyone gangsta until lambert w function

  • @treblaalbert4391
    @treblaalbert4391 4 года назад

    OMG man, your videos are great. Please keep doing these kind of videos, they are so interesting. Calculus is much more interesting when You explain it. Love you

  • @tajpa100
    @tajpa100 4 года назад +3

    dear teacher, could you give a more detailed lesson on the Lambert function?

  • @cokxi
    @cokxi Год назад +1

    idk why but the piece wise function for absolute value of x still seriously fucks up my mind. like on a good day im able to make sense out of it, and on other days its just a brainfuck.

  • @XgamersXdimensions
    @XgamersXdimensions 5 лет назад +10

    Can you do a video on what the Lambert W function actually is and how it was derived?

  • @laughinking5101
    @laughinking5101 4 года назад

    I really enjoyed it! Your enthusiasm is contagious and spurred me on too!

  • @5000jaap
    @5000jaap 5 лет назад +12

    Could you explain this index of W? Just for curiosity

    • @anas8183
      @anas8183 5 лет назад

      It s a complex number

    • @5000jaap
      @5000jaap 5 лет назад +1

      @@anas8183 but how it works

    • @anas8183
      @anas8183 5 лет назад +1

      @@5000jaap i d ont know my current level in math is not very good i am just 16 yrs old

    • @cuentafake140
      @cuentafake140 5 лет назад +1

      I think it is related to Euler's formula:
      e^(z) = cosx + isinx
      Where z is a complex number, if that's the case then there are infinite imaginary solutions.

  • @ismailmth
    @ismailmth 5 лет назад +1

    13:00 and lnsqrt2=O
    x=-e^-W(O)
    End -1= H
    x=He^HW(O)

  • @TheSavageTeddy
    @TheSavageTeddy 5 лет назад +5

    all the possible variables you could have chosen and you chose FISH!?!?!
    respected.

  • @DANGJOS
    @DANGJOS 4 года назад

    I feel so much better. I spent so much time thinking about this trying to solve it. Who knew it would be something so crazy?!!

  • @pedrobizarro2164
    @pedrobizarro2164 5 лет назад +19

    I'm still waiting for the proof of the cubic equation
    I think you can do it in 15 minutes or less. I did it in 20 minutes (because I'm not good at explaining Lol)

    • @fluffymassacre2918
      @fluffymassacre2918 5 лет назад +2

      @@aaryanbhatia4939 you aint

    • @pedrobizarro2164
      @pedrobizarro2164 5 лет назад +1

      Aaryan Bhatia What I did was give other values ​​to the variables x.
      if you want to know the extended formula you just have to change those final values ​​at the roots of x

    • @angelmendez-rivera351
      @angelmendez-rivera351 5 лет назад +6

      Aaryan Bhatia The answer is you *cannot.* Not in general, anyway. Only for certain values of the coefficients is the result simplifiable. Whenever it is not, this is known as casus irreducibilis. If you have ever wondered why an angle of 1° is not constructible, the answer is because 3° is constructible, and third angles of nontrivial constructible angles are not constructible usually, because the third-angle formula in general is unsolvable, as it requires solving a cubic equation that results in casus irreducibilis. This is why the cubic formula is not taught as opposed to the quadratic formula being taught. It is usually not useful, because casus irreducibilis is more common than not.

    • @angelmendez-rivera351
      @angelmendez-rivera351 5 лет назад +2

      Aaryan Bhatia Well, no, it is not like the quadratic formula. The quadratic formula is useful and practical. The quadratic formula suffers from no casus irreducibilis. The quadratic discriminant also does not suffer from case deficiency. The cubic formula is, in every sense, analogous to the quadratic formula, but strictly inferior.

    • @mennoltvanalten7260
      @mennoltvanalten7260 5 лет назад

      @Aaryan Bhatia I'm going to guess the answer is 'try and fail'

  • @XxAspect23xX
    @XxAspect23xX 11 месяцев назад +1

    at case 1 we get 1/x ln(x)= 1/2 ln 2 so by compiring x=2

  • @chriskoperniak784
    @chriskoperniak784 5 лет назад +12

    I followed you up until 7:05. In math it’s dangerous to say “of course...” Also, you introduced this lambert function without providing an explanation as to how to work with it

    • @zwz.zdenek
      @zwz.zdenek 4 года назад +8

      There's plenty other stuff he didn't define thoroughly first. A video can't be 10 years long to replace your entire school.

    • @angelmendez-rivera351
      @angelmendez-rivera351 4 года назад

      Chris Koperniak He defined the function for what it is. I'm not sure what else you think needs to be explained.

    • @awelotta
      @awelotta 4 года назад

      So is that the definition of the Lambert function?, I.e. as the solutions to that equation?

  • @fyfoh
    @fyfoh 4 года назад +2

    I have a masters in engineering, and I think this is the first time I've heard of the Lambert w function.

    • @carultch
      @carultch Год назад

      It comes up in diode characteristic curve equations, when you know the current and want to solve for the voltage.

  • @Liang_piano
    @Liang_piano 5 лет назад +7

    Hummm for a guy who scored 6 out of 120 in mathematics... good job for recommending RUclips

  • @amish4988
    @amish4988 3 года назад

    i never thought there were people on the internet who enjoy math the way i do! man.... i wish you were my friend so we can talk about math forever!

  • @nicolasgoubin
    @nicolasgoubin 5 лет назад +5

    The mic is back

  • @Triggs-Music
    @Triggs-Music 4 года назад +2

    Why is this enjoyable to watch...? if I had to sit in a class for this I wouldnt pay attention.

  • @chinmayjoshi3592
    @chinmayjoshi3592 5 лет назад +9

    8:47 was absolutely unexpected

  • @Sammy-qt9it
    @Sammy-qt9it Год назад

    It's weird that, during the first 2 years of a maths degree, I have not encountered the lambert w function, but on RUclips, it's everywhere

  • @fala7farmer
    @fala7farmer 5 лет назад +13

    LAMBERT OF 🐠 EAT 🐠 IS 🐠, SO COOL!

  • @math24682
    @math24682 2 года назад

    From Bangladesh....I love your videos🤗🤗

  • @SM321_
    @SM321_ 5 лет назад +8

    What is the negative real value?

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 лет назад +5

      -0.76666

    • @SM321_
      @SM321_ 5 лет назад +3

      @@blackpenredpen wow that was the fastest answer I ever got on RUclips😂 thank you

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 лет назад +1

      Lol. You are welcome

    • @aaronleperspicace1704
      @aaronleperspicace1704 5 лет назад +1

      Or approximately -23/30. The actual value is irrational but -23/30 is rational.

  • @Doktoren
    @Doktoren 3 года назад

    Thank you for making me learn a new useful function I didn't know about, the Lambert function

  • @seifeldidi41
    @seifeldidi41 5 лет назад +6

    Can I approximate the negative solution using maclaurin expansion of 2^x ?

  • @James-m3c1k
    @James-m3c1k 28 дней назад

    Equations like x^2=2^x always fascinated me, but solving them felt like hitting a wall at times. What really helped me was using tools that walk you through the problem-solving process. SolutionInn’s AI study tool is fantastic for breaking down equations like this, making complex solutions easier to understand. Highly recommend it if you’re tackling challenging problems like this one.

  • @JJ_TheGreat
    @JJ_TheGreat 5 лет назад +3

    Ah, man... This is very unsatisfying: How do we know what the Lambert W function is - without having to use Wolfram Alpha? And what are these "indexes", what do they mean - can you please do a video about them? Would we need to use Wolfram Alpha to calculate them? Because changing them obviously gets you different answers to the question/problem.

    • @Gulyus
      @Gulyus 5 лет назад +2

      The equation is apparently covered in a video in the description. The indexes are different solutions to it in either real or conplex space.

    • @JJ_TheGreat
      @JJ_TheGreat 5 лет назад +1

      @@Gulyus Thank you. However, even after viewing that video, I still have questions. For example, how do we know that when using f(x) to calculate the inverse: "f inverse" or "f -1(x)" that f(x) should equal "xe^x" based on the equation given in the video - which is "x^x = 2"?
      In addition, the video did not explain anything about "indexes". So I would not have even known that they exist otherwise, without them being mentioned in THIS video.

  • @GreenMeansGOF
    @GreenMeansGOF 5 лет назад +1

    This is basically the method I used to investigate the question at the end of your “Are you tired of this kind of question” video. We can compare a^b and b^a by considering the Lambert W function. Unfortunately it does not seem that this answer helps because I do not believe we can evaluate the Lambert W function without a calculator. So for example, this method does not help us decide if (e-1)^π is greater or less than π^(e-1).

    • @almachizit3207
      @almachizit3207 5 лет назад

      Simple, e=3 & π=3 therefore e^π=π^e.

    • @dlevi67
      @dlevi67 5 лет назад

      You can't evaluate many other functions without a calculator (e.g. exponentials for non-integer powers and/or irrational base, logs or trigonometric functions). They are just more familiar than W, so more people have an "approximate" idea of their behaviour.

    • @dlevi67
      @dlevi67 5 лет назад

      @@almachizit3207 Fundamental theorem of engineering. To which one can add log(2) = 3/10.

    • @almachizit3207
      @almachizit3207 5 лет назад

      @@dlevi67 exponentials, natural logs, trig, inverse trig and hyperbolic trig as well as many others can be estimated to arbitrary accuracy by hand with Taylor series (I point out those ones because I know them off the top of my head). Non-integer and negative powers can also be estimated to arbitrary accuracy by hand using binomial theorem, which I have encountered some smug bastards who have done that to calculate things like cube roots or things like that in their head with reasonable accuracy. For these things you just have to be a bit more patient than using a calculator.

    • @dlevi67
      @dlevi67 5 лет назад

      @@almachizit3207 ​ W can be calculated by hand too. Lambert and Euler tabled it in the 1750s - no calculators then. But it's a slog and using a calculator makes it significantly easier. What I'm pointing out is that many people commenting here seem to think it "weird" and "difficult" and "different". It's not; it's just not something that is typically taught in high school (or even initial degree-level math courses).

  • @joaovitorcampos99
    @joaovitorcampos99 5 лет назад +3

    Lim Cot^2 (x) - 1/x^2
    x->0
    :)

  • @tensor131
    @tensor131 4 года назад

    tough topic .. good explanation. I have not met the Lambert W function .. clearly it has some fascinating properties .. to be continued!! Thank you again.

  • @waterdragonlucas8263
    @waterdragonlucas8263 5 лет назад +3

    i tried x^-1 ln(lxl)=1/2 ln(2 on the desmos graphing calculator and the three answers i got were 2, 4, and -0.76666666666666...

    • @inx1819
      @inx1819 4 года назад

      Is -0.76(6) correct? because i also got that from my calculator and i wanna know if that's ok

  • @behnamashjari3003
    @behnamashjari3003 3 года назад +2

    Hi,
    I worked out y=x^x (x to the power of x) and found for x=0, y approaches 1. Also for x=1, y will be 1. For x=1/e=~0.3678, y will have its minimum which will be 0.6922. beyond x=1, y increases continuously until +infinity. Here's my problem and I need your help, perhaps a video:
    for x= -infinity, y=0. For all even negative integers, y>0. For all odd negative integers, y

    • @julianbruns7459
      @julianbruns7459 Год назад

      You probably already got an answer but for negative x the real and the imaginary values oscilate around the x axis converging to 0 as x goes to -infinity. The imaginary part is 0 when x is an integer and negative for x in the interval (-(2n+1),-2n) and positive for x in the interval (-2n,-(2n+1)) for every natural number n. The real part will be zero at x = e^W(log(i b) + 2 i π k) i think (probably not all the zeros and there are some conditions for wich this isnt zero, for full solution check wolframalpha i guess) the function will never have real part and imaginary part both equal to 0 at the same time. For the question why you cant write (-2.3)^(-2.3) as (-2.3)^(-46/20) is because this is like writing sqrt(-1)=4th root of (-1)^2 = 4th root of 1. You create extra solutions wich aren't solutions to the previous equations (4th root of 1 has 4 solutions while sqrt(-1) only has 2)...

  • @zonex001
    @zonex001 5 лет назад +5

    I want to see the w function

  • @erickherrerapena8981
    @erickherrerapena8981 5 лет назад +1

    Buen video, ya dos meses viendo todos tua videos. Buen canal.

  • @fernandofrio5863
    @fernandofrio5863 4 года назад +3

    8:46 Yeah we really knew that

  • @shinyless
    @shinyless 3 года назад

    I love those videos. Best maths lessons I've watched in a while.

  • @cros108
    @cros108 5 лет назад +4

    "most likely it's irrational" a proof on the rationality of this number would be pretty cool tbh

  • @vitoraugusto1447
    @vitoraugusto1447 5 лет назад +1

    Brazil loves you man
    =)

  • @mahmoudmroweh7730
    @mahmoudmroweh7730 5 лет назад +4

    how to solve the limit as x tends to +infinty e^x/x^e

    • @leombzh
      @leombzh 5 лет назад

      I think you could compare the growth of e^x and x^e. When x tends to +inf e^x will tends to +inf way faster than x^e.In fact for any a,b > 0 (e^ax)/(x^b) will always tends to +inf if x tends to +inf (so in our case b = e and a = 1)

    • @BlackXGamer1202
      @BlackXGamer1202 5 лет назад

      I did it like that : x^e=e^(ln(x^e))=e^(e*ln(x))
      Then (e^x)/(x^e) = e^(x-e*ln(x)) and so the limit as x tends to infinity is +∞

    • @CatchyCauchy
      @CatchyCauchy 5 лет назад +2

      Since e^x is an exponential and x^e is a polynomial it will probably diverge but you can work like this:
      Since your question is a infinity over infinity situation, you can use l'Hopital's rule and differentiate the top and bottom
      Since the top is e^x it will stay like this and to differentiate x^e you just minus 1 the expontent and get:
      e^x/x^(e-1)
      This will still be infinity over infinity so you do it again which will lead to:
      e^x/x^(e-2)
      So you do it again...
      e^x/x^(e-3)
      But this time the exponent of x^(e-3) is negative so you can put it on numerator and get:
      e^x× x^|e-3| which diverges

    • @CatchyCauchy
      @CatchyCauchy 5 лет назад +2

      But that's kinda brutal in my opinion XD

    • @Maniclout
      @Maniclout 5 лет назад

      @@CatchyCauchy This is why Taylor polynomials are so useful xD

  • @XiaoMingXing
    @XiaoMingXing 3 года назад

    I have never seen a fish with an antenna before. Must be a mathematical phenomenon.

  • @IshaaqNewton
    @IshaaqNewton 5 лет назад +9

    My favourite part:
    We can't see them because they are imaginary....12:28
    😃

    • @roderickwhitehead
      @roderickwhitehead 5 лет назад +2

      ...like my friends.

    • @IshaaqNewton
      @IshaaqNewton 5 лет назад

      @@roderickwhitehead I can be a real friend of yours....:)

    • @roderickwhitehead
      @roderickwhitehead 5 лет назад +1

      @@IshaaqNewton - A real friend? Sounds like 1+2+3+4... = -1/12 witchcraft to me.

    • @IshaaqNewton
      @IshaaqNewton 5 лет назад +1

      @@roderickwhitehead And for me it's
      like
      1^3+2^3+3^3+......
      =(1+2+3+.........)^2
      =(-1/12)^2
      =1/144
      😂😂😂

    • @050138
      @050138 5 лет назад

      @@IshaaqNewton lol 😆

  • @Mateo-vz4fl
    @Mateo-vz4fl 4 года назад +1

    Someone: how do we solve this problem?
    blackpenredpen: *have you heard of the Lambert W function?*

  • @koryukengamer5693
    @koryukengamer5693 4 года назад +16

    0:57 minecraft villager "hm"

  • @Viewpoint314
    @Viewpoint314 3 года назад

    Thanks for the video. I was just thinking about this problem for a few days and then this video popped up. That always seems to happen.

  • @NitronNeutron
    @NitronNeutron 5 лет назад +5

    I need more about the LambertW function

    • @quantumcity6679
      @quantumcity6679 5 лет назад +1

      Just go and check it out on Wikipedia...... म द फ क

  • @cav94rojo
    @cav94rojo 5 лет назад +2

    Nunca imaginé que habriá más soluciones. Exploté❗

  • @dingueriefinanciere
    @dingueriefinanciere 5 лет назад +4

    This is just the problem x^y = y^x you already solved right

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 лет назад

      Different style. I used a parametric approach in that video and lambert W function in this one.

  • @danerman73
    @danerman73 3 года назад

    Fish is my favorite variable now. Great video.

  • @lcun4728
    @lcun4728 5 лет назад +10

    when i grow up i want to be that fish

  • @igxniisan6996
    @igxniisan6996 3 года назад +2

    8:47, Yes we know that, “We know that “we know that “if x is less than 0 so take out the absolute value...that's all.”””

  • @noahtaul
    @noahtaul 5 лет назад +3

    I got a different answer: I got x=-2/ln(2)*W(-ln(2)/2)

  • @tracyh5751
    @tracyh5751 5 лет назад +1

    If you replace the absolute value with the magnitude of a complex number z, this approach still works and the indices of the product log gives all of the (infinitely many!) complex solutions. :)

    • @angelmendez-rivera351
      @angelmendez-rivera351 4 года назад +2

      A more careful and rigorous way of handling the equation z^2 = 2^z is by noticing that if z is not an integer, then 2^z is inevitably multivalued. Namely, 2^z := exp[ln(2)·z + 2nπi·z] for any integer n. This implies z^2 = exp([ln(2) + 2nπi]·z). Now, a few cases must be considered. The first case is that |Arg(z)| < π/2, and the second case is that π/2 < |Arg(z)| < π. It is notable that if |Arg(z)| < π/2, then |Arg(z^2)| < π, and if π/2 < |Arg(z)| < π, then also |Arg(z^2)| < π.
      In the first case, z^2 = exp([ln(2) + 2nπi]·z) implies z = exp([ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z), and z = exp([ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z) implies -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z·exp(-[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z) = -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]. Therefore, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z = W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]), equivalent to z = -W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi])/[ln(2)/2 + nπi]). Notice that if n = m = 0, then this simplifies to z = 2.
      In the second case, z^2 = exp([ln(2) + 2nπi]·z) implies -z = exp([ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z), equivalent to -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z·exp(-[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z) = ln(2)/2 + nπi. Therefore, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·z = W(m, ln(2)/2 + nπi), hence z = -W(m, ln(2)/2 + nπi)/[ln(2)/2 + nπi].
      With this, the remaining cases are Arg(z) = π, Arg(z) = π/2, and Arg(z) = -π/2.
      In the first of these three, z = -r, with r = |r|, so -r = exp(-[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·r), thus [ln(2)/2 + nπi]·r·exp([ln(2)/2 + nπi]·r) = -[ln(2)/2 + nπi], and [ln(2)/2 + nπi]·r = W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]). Therefore, z = -W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi])/[ln(2)/2 + nπi].
      If Arg(z) = -π/2, then z = -ri, with r = |r|. Hence -ri = exp(-[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·ri), and [ln(2)/2 + nπi]·ri·exp([ln(2)/2 + nπi]·ri) = -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]. Therefore, [ln(2)/2 + nπi]·ri = W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]), and z = -W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi])/[ln(2)/2 + nπi].
      Finally, if Arg(z) = π/2, then z = ri, with r = |r|, so ri = exp([ln(2)/2 + nπi]·ri), and -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·ri·exp(-[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·ri) = -[ln(2)/2 + nπi], hence -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]·ri = W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi]), so z = -W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi])/[ln(2)/2 + nπi].
      In summary, if Arg(z) = π, |Arg(z)| = π/2 or |Arg(z)| < π/2, then z^2 = 2^z implies z = -W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi])/[ln(2)/2 + nπi], and if π/2 < |Arg(z)| < π, then z^2 = 2^z implies z = -W(m, +[ln(2)/2 + nπi])/[ln(2)/2 + nπi], in both cases for arbitrary integers n and m.
      This gives the complete family of complex solutions with no extraneous solutions.
      The solution families can be compactified. Notice that exp[W(t)] = t/W(t), so exp[-W(t)] = W(t)/t. Therefore, -W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi])/[ln(2)/2 + nπi] = +exp[-W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi])], and -W(m, +[ln(2)/2 + nπi])/[ln(2)/2 + nπi] = -exp[-W(m, +[ln(2)/2 + nπi])]. As such, if Arg(z) = π, |Arg(z)| = π/2 or |Arg(z)| < π/2, then z^2 = 2^z implies z = +exp[-W(m, -[ln(2)/2 + nπi])], and if π/2 < |Arg(z)| < π, then z^2 = 2^z implies z = -exp[-W(m, +[ln(2)/2 + nπi])]. Again, this solution is complete and with no extraneous solutions.