Ballgroups
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- Опубликовано: 2 ноя 2023
- Here I explain pvp raiding and what you can do to fight and counter ballgroups.
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Игры
Some good basic info here. If you do a part 2 there's some extra info which might be helpful for players.
For example:
- Proximity counting (when to expect a push & how to avoid them)
- When groups are at their weakest (after pushes and when retreating as they go into a choke (not when they are already in/through it).
- How to time your stuns / disruption for these 'weak' moments instead of giving away free CC immunity.
- Oils really hurt right now too especially when combined with meatbags.
- Additionally you might like to include server meta's for example EU it's common to use Snow Treaders on most groups (some don't) but NA its more common not to use them on DD's so roots can potentially cause more of an issue. Basically identify which group you are fighting and if they are rootable etc..
- Why groups can stack so much hp (because of hybrid group spell/weapon dmg scaling and recovery) and the low value of 'mainstat'.
- What changed in the meta which caused group play to become easier (for example the change from ground hots which were negatable and needed to be pre-cast vs sticky hot healing which cannot be removed) - a lot of players calling for cross healing / hot limits but its really an issue mainly with the type of heals and lack of mainstat value with the hybrid system (due largely to the amount of +spell/weapon dmg sets too).
those are some really good tips, I will pin this
I commonly see people get caught in ball groups when they see the group charging. Players begin to walk backwards or sideways, which is often just too slow. I always roll dodge through the group, toward where the group is running from, to make sure I’m far enough away from the negates/DC pulls etc.
@@mylesr2156yes always push through them
Snow treaders should disable all speed spells. They give up nothing Rat, channeled acceleration etc. The very thing ZOS put in the game as a hard counter was nerfed to oblivion. Although I sometimes hate the groups they are just exploiting the game mechanics because ZOS made it possible. It’s fair game whether I like it or not. To fix it would piss the PVE crowd off to no end. AOE healing should be worthless in PVP and in group non stack healing should be decide all fights. All healing in ESO is non targeted. Id be happy if they eliminated out of group AOE heals and buffs.
Iza, your a traitor, ngl...
Cant blame people for playing as group in a pvp zone but at the same time I missed old days when we could actually solo pvp. That was what made me love the game at the first place..
solo has been dead in this game for years imo
@@masterdd2251nah, you just got to get gud. Learn the 1vX. Understand the meta and play against it. Bahahaha 😂
@@wilbing8465I know your joking but tell me how to counter 7 dots on you which they can reapply immedetly even if u purge them. And then image it in 3v1 fight also 3x marselok :) kiting used to make you win 3v1 but you cant kite the dots x)
ZOS "we want to balance PVP"
Also ZOS "we create sets that allow a group to stack the equivalent of 15 sets per man in an optimised group, Enjoy you 3 set solo gameplay"
You know what mechanic got scrapped after 1.6 which could help combat zergs as well as ball groups was dynamic ult regen in outnumbered situations. Basically if you were getting attacked by multiple attackers your ulti regen would increase dramatically, which course would give your ulti back very fast and give you a better chance of holding off multiple players despite the major disadvantage. I think this mechanic should be brought back for a nod to small scalers or us solo players. IMO small scale or solo PvP is where this game really shines and where I believe the true skill gap can be practiced. Thoughts?
I'm not against this idea but most ball groups do fight outnumbered, so this would likely buff them most of the time
@@thereasonwhy9821 alrighty, perhaps if its a flat multiplier that increases by 1 ultimate so every time another player attacks you it goes up by 1 with it starting to ramp up after 3 or more players start attacking you. I think this will be a way of leveling the playing field a bit on all scales without it being broken, perhaps they treat the mechanic like stacks and it goes down every 10 seconds or so.
Ahh the endless batswarm DK days......
2018: Ball group of 5-6 sweaty competitive nerds in dmg sets working together to kill 20-100 casual players.
2023: Ball group of 7-8 40k hp casual pvers working together to flip empty keeps and spam heals until they outnumber the enemy.
Real talk. Full fitness pros running inside a keep during 30 minutes killing 1 ppl by minute. Zerg Squad was doing far better than them in 2017 with less buffs/debuffs, and i never saw them chasing a solo guy.
The quality of your videos keep getting better and better. Impressive work, friend. This one felt like a mini documentary.
Thanks! I put more effort in them now yeah, but the result is rewarding!
@@MalcolM. 🤌🍷
Interesting to see it from this pov, good video 👍
One of my all-time favorite ESO moments is when the devs gutted Mechanical Acuity (which was perfect for bombing ball groups,) and introduced "ball group killing sets," like Dark Convergence, which all ball groups now use. When a game with great potential has clowns for devs... 😂
Imagine if zos released a new pvp map that was more condensed and had group healing disabled
Ball groups will be a thing also lol
@@ZDavidH I also think ball groups will also be a thing, but if they choose to tune down on the amount of cross healing that goes around (vigor and radiating regen stacking...), it would actually take a little effort to play well in a ballgroup.
@@MalcolM.Perhaps making the HoTs have diminishing effects, so the first hot has full effect but second and so forth heal less and less until it's close to 0
@@grzes848909 or maybe not being able to stack more than one of the same heal dot on a player, you could still stack regen + flowers, etc but it would limit mobility greatly since you wouldnt be running 6 regens per player
Actually a good idea tbh
Other level of videos man 🔝
The problem with ball groups is that the tank meta and the cross healing makes it impossible for a small group to kill them unless they run proc sets. Once again proc sets over skill to kill the group. Cross healing and the tank meta destroys pvp
Nice - finally a good balanced commentary about ball groups!!! Many thanks. And the conclusion is so true - competing with good organization & teamwork is best done through good organization & teamwork :)
nice, cant wait to get asure blight stacks on top the siege meta, nagate spam and single target hurting as hell now when i try to make a group play, thanks mate xD
The only time I saw unorganized players taking a ballgroup down was when they hugely outnumbered them from all sides and the ballgroup was carrying a scroll out in the open. Even then, the players died so many times before realizing lining up and chasing the group from one direction is a bad idea.
It takes skill to co-ordinate and play together if you do it right.
"Stay on star and spam spells." 😂😂
this is the most useful ESO video I have seen in almost a decade.
thank you!
I really liked this video. I myself play on xboxNA and find myself at the mercy of coordinated ball groupd. My only counter is to use my magsorc with negate. I follow them around and use my negate until they get so bored because they cant get any sucessful kills then they leave the keep.
bruh the part with dwayne johnson killed me im still laughin bro
Finally the game arrived what it was made for. V16 was the best time period in this game.
What skill is used to pull all the players together before bombing?
At least back in the day, the good groups didn't run with the zerg and they will often focus on the corners and odd points in the map rather than the ring proper. Good ball groups are simply trying to fight the most players they can with the least they can. 12 v 60 - 80 isn't uncommon for a good ball group (or used to not be. Its been a while since I played eso).
Shots fired 😂
Ball groups do take skill, but let 3 of them wander away from the crown and they’ll be deleted by a solo 800cp in 15 seconds
I can respect a troll style of play, I really can. But nothing says "I'm a bad player" like a ball group player. They can spin it any way they want and do.
I am with a few others in the comments in that I simply miss the "good ol days" of player vs player instead of ball group vs ball group. I think your analogy of pve pug groups and organized guilds is very accurate since I seem to be one of the old school rare unicorns that loves getting world records in trials as well as being in top 10 on the PVP boards. I have been emperor many times (not this name).
That being said, I HATE ball group meta right now. No doubt the organized groups takes skills, but I say there needs to be a strong small group counter to the 12 man ball group. A solo shouldn't easily be able to take out a juggernaut, but a small organized 3 man should be able to "blow holes in the ball groups" so the pugs can do more.
Because, let's face it. The best ball groups are so rare because skilled talent and the developement of it is so rare, and then ORGANIZING 12 people is even more rare with high capacity players. So, as with all things in life, there needs to be a balance out there for SOLO folks like me who know EVERY CLASS in and out, PVP in and out, but doesnt have a 12 man at peak times. People like me want to enjoy the game too, but the state of ball groups is just garbage for an overall challenging experience. They pretty much just run over shit none stop with little that can be done outside of other ball groups, etc etc. (all the things mentioned in your thorough video). Subbed up for this video. Thanks for the content!
If they would limit heal stacking, those low to mid tier ball groups would end up getting wiped pretty easily. No reason someone should be able to have more than 2 echoing vigors on them
Everyone can form a ballgroup but not every ballgroup can become a legendary ballgroup. This kind of group you won't be able to counter in a manner you described because every player in such a group has also a very high individual skill. Be a member of such a group requires a very good cooridnation, it's not just wearing some defined gear and pushing some well known skill buttons. They are able to complete high end pve content like trials hard mode as well. Luckily for randoms, the number of such top tier ballgroups are very few, like 2-3 in all the pvp servers.
It takes skill to play in a real group like this. We often sit at Glademist or Faregyl, siege from the resource and farm AD and DC until they log. People need to learn that they need to run negate and work together. It’s not rocket science but yet people still trickle in and don’t coordinate ultis. I would argue it does take skill, especially to be successful at primetime against a server and extremely outnumbered situations.
Also, a good ball group will have constant detection, a defensive negate/heal ulti. We have yet to be bombed successfully by anything other than another group of equal or greater size.
It's just roleplay pvp. 😂
Will these builds be on the website?
I did not plan to put them on the website. The raid builds themselves are purely illustrative and the azureblight builds are quite specific to this video. I can put the latter on the website if there's more people asking for this.
Yes pls to the azureblight build … it’s my favorites set and would love to use it in pvp!!
@@MalcolM.pls post the sorc azureblight full build 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Yes please put the build Malcolm 🤞
Thank you, as a casual PvPer but semi serious PvEer I have wondered how to form or run in a proper ball group
Siegetards meta is the strongest counter
like your vids
Challenge for ya put together best azuriblight spec for each class on ur tabs for ur website could be fun I run it with vma ice staff brp dw one Druid one trainee and monster but not going to lie morag tong does seem fun
Now a days on psn eso every time we get on we are fighting the server of course we are going to group I cant run solo without getting chased by 12+
Many knowns names there
I hope more ppl watch this, got smarter and stop feeding ballgrps
Lol fr even when I played this game back in 2016 or whenever it was. Whenever I saw a group moving like a school of fish I would just sit back and watch everyone else just run in and get wiped😂. So tarded
12 v1 thats skills!!
Great informative video. I get how frustrating fighting a ballgroup is, but all we want is another ballgroup to fight. Everything else is filler until we get that fight. Keep the videos coming!
Ball groups is just a phalanx. Thats normal on battlefields
remember to carpet negate your 8 man
we don't talk about that
The zerg must watch this video for a 125% more difficulty for solo pvp players xdd
Me and my buddy can kill them, negate cleave bomber and nightblade destro staff bomber
Your just a shitty zerg bomber, calm down
Zerging is for bads
Ball groups are for bads
Running meta setups is for bads
Rallying cry set is for bads
Ball groups are gay. 😂 I always laugh when I see one rolling around.
My problem with ballgrps are not there gameplay it's the lag spike if they rush back in or back around a corner after they run away. The server can't simply handle the many people who act like one. And that's why so many people die then. They simply cant roll, run out or use a skill in these milliseconds.
screaming in ZC, "help with this ball grp" I ignore them, if you care about points in 2023 after population nerfs, that's your problem.. 12man can wipe the entire map for all I care. PVP in ESO is just desyncing your opponent, no skill required. EU players night capping having 12K pts lead, why do you care about points? Why would I be forced to join toxic ball grps that cause new players to quit? why you support this? The ones that don't quit make tank builds, NOT tanky builds, actual PVE tanks. I find it funny that it takes 6 man sweat in pay2win builds to kill one solo old fart(me)
People really out here defending a group of 8+ players running around with 40k HP each, spamming heals and AOE damage. Fun gameplay, real fun xD
Ball groups essentially are fighting many 20vsolo to 10's of unoptimised randoms. No they do not take much skill. They take some time to optimise sets, skill, add ons etc and then they have an overwhelming statistical advantage vs hundreds of random players, think 40k resist, 20k hps and 40k dps. Not to mention server latency and having to guess where they are when they are using all speed buffs. Its an mmo and ball groups just use all the stats to gain an overwhelming advantage. Cant blame them, but don't get it twisted. Most in the ball group only have to push 2 skills and an ult and then let their sets and stats do all the rest.
Agreed. The skill comes from familiarity with teammates ball group v ball group. There are a lot of bad ball groups though that these tips will be useful for though
Ball groups are pretty easy. Follow the leader and ult dump. Synergize when it pops and keep your heals up. Snow treaders is op. Only skill based group play is 2-4 v X groups since you gotta be on skilled at every aspect of pvp outside of siege weapons/taking keeps.
Hate Balls Groups. Simple Fact - skill stacking for Healing and AOEs should be limited, don't even get me started on the weaponized lag spike they create on purpose.
Duuuude, don't even get me started on the lag. They are the sole reason Cyrodill became unplayable
Ball groups exploit the mechanics of the game. Without Snow Treaders they would not exist. If Radiant or Echoing didn’t stack they wouldn’t exist. Individually the players in BGs have no dps outside of ultimate dumping. Frozen gate and negate spam destroys ball groups. Unfortunately not enough wardens or sorcs bar either. Ball groups have to run a telegraphed path. Great video. I’m always looking for tactics to destroy these pains in the butt.
You have no idea what you’re talking about
Lol
I don't see why this is controversial at all. 12 people should stomp all over 1 person. I guess there's basically 2 extremes, 1vX sweats and ball group players. With casual caught inbetween to be farmed. The 1vX sweats want to be able to kill the ball group 1v12 but thankfully the game isn't so broken as to allow that.
Only one personne in a balle groupe deserve the glory, the leader, the others are cheesing :!D
basically they have no real counter.
ridiculous. every other style of play gets nerfed except this. zos just say it all playstyles are wrong except this one.
Ball groups are a joke
Just call them zergs. Players who play like this are just dudes who have no thumbs after 9 years of pvp and need 6 healers to do anything in cyrodiil lol
ball groups ruin pvp in eso. its not the people that use them that are at fault though. its the face they let so many heal stacking
If u delete ball group from the scenario, u can either 20v1 or get zerged down.
What do you do on cyrodil?
Very boring "meta"
Malcom pls delete this Video it will destroy PvP , you a great player and did great Solocontent ,but for sure zerglings will watch the video and than is PvP unplayable
Consider that perspective: this vid can make a change. Keeping the game the way it is does not look like a good idea.
“Delete this video that took hours of gameplay, research, recording and editing” 🗿
Ballgroups are the reason people avoid non proc campaign cause fighting them without plaguebreak and/or dark convergence is too annoying.
But fighting in proc campaign will cause you to face master DW/vateshran ice staff people and that's not fun either.
There will always be people who will be a nuisance to others and suck the fun out of the game no matter where you go 😞
There are barely any ballgroups in the non proc campaign, let alone good ones. Not to mention the absence of proc sets also affects ballgroups, since they heavily rely on them in proc campaigns.
Ballgroups are hard carrying by proc set as pull set, without theses, they almost do not kill anyone
They use the tools at their disposal. I've played in 8-man ballgroups in non-proc Cyro where none of that crap works, and we still killed massive amounts of people.
@@Degonyte Pull sets make all the burst ult easy and permits to lower the skill needed
@@cedrickchevalier2861Yeah and I play without them.
Ballgroup = zerg 2.0
Pretty much why I’ve stepped away from eso PvP, I like to 1vX but the amount of BGs running around is just annoying. I tried a BG as well, it’s koo for points but I’m not the type to enjoy asscheek holding gameplay all day. Also a lot of BGs treat eso like it’s their job lol I’m not doing that for a non-esports game
Zos desyncs me near groups so I don’t hafta worry bout this shit. Lol
@Loooree
@Loooree