@@calvinbowen3940 well. let me ask you the same question. if china trying to influence Texas to be independent and we both know Texas do have the intention to be independent. what us will do ? the first priority is to avoid that happening. not only because it belong to us before in history(which is not the real case for texas), but because when Texas out, us will loose a big economic and taxation support , which trigger negative impact to other American in other regions. other, Texas, though strong, will be easier to be manipulated by other counties. and in this case, back to the topic, people benefits won't be guaranteed compared to when they belonged to their historical concept.
This young Chinese guy logically nailed it and kept all 'wise' old Western experts silent. Although he was in minority and surrounded by western democrats but with his words and reasoning, he did not allow anyone to dominate him. A brilliant example of debate and argument in its sublime form.
@@calvinbowen3940 well. that's why we are so prepared for the military strength. if outsider power, don't invade, we just get prepare. if it is, let's see who gonna win the war. as a young Chinese, if there is invasion, I will devote all of my strength and even life to teach the invadet a lesson, now is fucking different from before. many Chinese are like me, if you want, you can have a damn try
Eric Li (李世默) did very well in this forum. Wasn't excessively defensive when put on a spot by 4 or 5 western voices questioning the Chinese Government's legitimacy, the perceived threat of a rising China, the situation in Hong Kong and Taiwan, and fear of China becoming another hegemon. He was clam, his responses were thoughtful, drawing references from history, citing present-day realities to illustrate what a non-interventionist, peaceful rise, even with its more assertive nature, is like. Hopefully, it moved the needle a little in the minds of the Western audience that China is not treading the path of empire, and has no wish to dominate the region or the world.
你可以回答：we Chinese since ancient times always value diversity and harnomy of all sorts of art forms, it would be gravely unfortunate if the unenlightened fail to observe its true beauty.
Eric X Li has a remarkably sharp and lucid intellect. Cuts through a lot of the mental baggage too many in Western countries tend to carry around with them as superior to potential alternatives neglecting a lot of the harm/collateral damage the proselyting of Democracy particularly by the US has heaped on many nations.
We must define "freedom" first before the discussion. When people said "Hong Kong has no freedom", I usually have to ask "what kind of freedom you think Hong Kong is missing?". When people said "China has no human rights", I usually have to ask "what kind of right you think China is lacking?". Mr. Li has a lot of patient to educate these people who obviously had been looking at China through nothing but western propaganda. When people tell me how bad China is, I usually have to ask "When is the last time you visited China to see things with your own eyes and hear things with your own ears?"
I think you are myopic when you vouch for China's sanctity when atrocities were pepetrated on its own citizens in Tianamen and now in Xinjiang after Tibet.
@@MenonMenonti All lies. Try looking it up instead of swallowing propaganda. The only thing close to an atrocity was Tiananmen Square. But the numbers are clearly exaggerated. There's no evidence that the official numbers are wrong. They put it at 200 people including soldiers. That's right, these peaceful protesters attacked and killed soldiers.
Many westerners are harping about freedom of speech but do not realized they really don’t have one. A bad comment on yt is taken down all the time for example. The west don’t understand how the chinese view the ccp and why are platforms like FB or YT are banned. Most chinese view their ccp gov as their father or head of the family by heart due to recent successful track record. Regarding the ban of FB or YT, as I mentioned above, they can control what they want you to see which is dangerous for any country. No difference to why so many countries ban porns or etc. If a platform that can be used by the US to brainwash their people, why would any country allow it? Freedom comes with responsibility. Do you have the freedom to kill? Same thing
@@blardymunggas6884 Also, the block can be easily cercumvented by using a VPN. What the great firewall really serves as is to promote usage of Chinese alternatives. Which serves most Chinese just fine. The only really downside to that is that we westerners don't get to hear their side. But having this so called freedom, I realize most people who express opinions on the Internet are mostly morons. And like you point out, we're also subjected to censorship.
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Eric does very well. But just one question. 1st. Why did he stay so long in the US making so much money. Why didn't he go back to china if the system in the US is so unfair. 2nd. Then it is unfair to say that there is a big gap between rich and poor in the US only because it does also exists in china where you have many billionnaires like Jack ma and peasants earning just only $200 per month. Also, the young rich generation in china is just showing off whilst there are millions of people still under the poverty standard. 3rd Then you have the cheap labour of china. Will china continue to rise when labour gets more expensive. Not sure???
Yvette Cowley one question became 3 questions...lol. I’m not Eric so I don’t know the reason why he stayed there for 9 years, but he probably stayed to get enough working experience in the US after graduation so that his CV would look great, and earning some money at the same time to start his own business. He admitted he enjoyed his stay in the US, I guess Americans were a lot more friendly then. China also has huge rich poor gap but poor are being taken care of by the government; the beauty of socialism. Lastly, you probably don’t know China well. China has been moving up the tech ladder and wages have increased, attracting and fulfilling the dreams of Chinese graduates who mostly are STEM graduates, so it’s no longer cheap labor. China has got more advanced tech going on with manufacturing capabilities. That’s why US is so afraid.
@@josephsiew8494 I know china much more than you think. BTW, I have great admiration for the chinese hardwork and they are very good at Maths. Hats off but what I am trying to say is that it is not socialism that made china what it is today. China has all my respects for their achievements. But you need to understand that many people (not the graduates ) working in industries are earning below $300 per month. That's not much for someone working 12 hrs a day and 6 times a week and for a country who is lending billions to African countries. There is also a big gap between the rich and the poor in china. When I was in Shanghai, I saw many stupid rich wasting their money on alcohol whilst other people were struggling to earn a decent living. Stop beleiving that china is a communist country. You probably follow fox news or CNN too often..lol It is a capitalist country like the US except that it is progressing much faster for the fol reasons: 1. It has the largest market in the world 2. It is strategically well positioned in the East. 3. Labour is 6 times cheaper than in the west. 4. Chinese are more hardworking and obedient due to a centralized communist gov. Money is the gold standard for the chinese. My friend, this mentality is capitalism and not SOCIALISM. Use your common sense. Eric says many truth about the west but not everything is true. Likewise, the US says many things on china where many things are false. Always use your common sense.
@@yvettecowley873 sure, China is capitalistic, as it has always been. But, it's just not capitalist. Socialism plays a huge role in stabilizing Chiba's internal affairs, cos like you said, China's rich poor gap is huge. Poor are taken care of. For eg, you might find migrant workers being paid very little, yet they have huge savings, house in their hometown, land etc. They are just waiting for the day their house(s) got acquired by the government or developers and become rich. Or, just like my relatives who own buildings on land that was converted from farm land. They were poor, but they now live like some rich bastards all thanks to CCP. Of course, they still get their monthly pension and medical coverage. It's paradise, my friend. Now look at US, racism has ignited the biggest riots since 1992. The underlying is also rich poor, elites vs have-nots. If only they had CCP.
@@josephsiew8494 At least we agreed on a common point. Both US and China are capitalist. It would be very ignorant to beleive that china's success is due to socialism. China is trying to do more socialism but this is due to the economic growth ( GDP increase) and you unfortunately can only speed up your economic growth via capitalism. Ask yourself where are you now. I am sure you are from a western country . So did democracy prevent you from surviving?? The answer is NO!! Did the CCP help you to earn a living?? Again the answer is a NO!! So as an overseas chinese, how did u survive in an unfair society like the US or UK?? The answer is simple. It is not democracy or a totalitarian gov that makes people succeed but the people themselves need to be hardworking and disciplined. The CCP should stop believing that china's success is due to socialism when in fact the merits goes directly to the hardworking entrepreneurs. Wealth is being distributed to the farmers but there is still an exponential gap between rich and poor in china. China is no different from the US except that you have the advantage of having a cheap labour and a hard working population. When price of labour goes up, you will start facing the same systematic problems as in the west especially that you have a 1.4 billion population to feed.
One has to admire Eric Li brilliant, logical, cogent wisdoms expressed in a way for ordinary mortals like us to understand geopolitical issues. Jia you Forever youthful Eric Li. Nin hen bang.!!!
Whenever China was discussed, it kind of feels like the whole table vs Eric li. This western professors didn't come on to the table with an open mind and seems ready to nitpick on all the small things that China is doing wrong.
Exactly, but they will learn it in a really hard way,especially after corona virus outbreaks,and the protest of America.But the problem is are they smart enough to acknowledge it?If not it's just beginning.
Actually it's much better this time. If you go back into 2018 nexus debating table, you will see how those geezers attack China with their inherent prejudice. The participants here are much more objective than last year's.
THESE PEOPLE WILL NEVER GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE. "THE RISE OF CHINA IN THE WORLD WITHOUT ANY VIOLENCE, IS SOMETHING TO CELEBRATE". DAMN, NO ONE IN THE PANEL SAID ANYTHING. WHY? PRIDE, ANIMOSITY, SUPERIORITY, .... PLAY A PART ON THEIR ATTITUDES. ITS UNFORTUNATE.
The function of Democracy is to have elections to fulfill the individual's desire for equality and rights. But to choose a leader by an election only prove the campaign's success but not the chosen leader's ability to manage a country. It misses the point, so Democracy without modification is an outdated sub-standard system.
Exactly look at US elected one Orange Man in the last election with ego and may elect another dead man walking (Old man can't make few sentences put tougher also with Covid-19 kept in basements in case he got infected I suppose) then in UK elected a pure and simple unqualified fool now facing worst death rate out of Covid-19 out of the whole world as per Millions Population. Whereas the CCP has a system you must prove yourself you can govern a large province before becoming as a leader of the country. That shows the benefits to the most of the Chinese people their standard of living has gone several folds whereas US/UK standard of living going down. More and More people in US/UK living relying on foodbanks.
individual's desire VS Maximize social benefits= compromise compromise VS truth = contradiction if the contraiction would not be chanllenged, it become a self-reinforcement common sense
I have come back to this discussion a few times. Eric handles the group well, being sensitive and respectful towards the bewildered participants from across the Atlantic. I couldn't help feeling, though, that everyone was beating around the bush, missing some key point. Eric insists that the West should consider alternatives to Western liberal democracy. They refuse to accept this proposition because they still believe that their system is superior than any alternative. They have yet to come out of the shadow of Churchill's well known remark: "Democracy is the worst form of government, but it's better than the alternatives that we know of," or something to this effect. The standard defense of liberal democracy by Western politicians and intellectuals is the separation of administrative, legislative and judicial powers, whereby the government's power is defined and confined by law. Be that as it may, it is well acknowledged that real political power in the West lies with money, in the hands of financial oligarchs and special interest groups who influence and control government policy making. Are the legislative and judicial powers as designed and exercised in Western liberal democracy capable of curbing and controlling this real power? If not, the standard defense falls apart automatically, or so it follows. In all debates on liberal democracy, I find this question not asked and I tend to think that this is the root of the bewilderment felt across the the Atlantic and the world.
You can't win a debate losing your temper, so Eric Li was well-prepared in not fighting head-on but talking like he's on their side and never losing his composure. For example, he basically said China's rise hasn't fired a single shot and he qualified it with "NOT YET" -> that's the killer there. But, watch the video where Eric Li says the West (namely USA) throws everything and the kitchen sink at China. In that video, Eric Li is much more candid in his thoughts. It's also pretty funny hearing how Eric Li really feels about the West's fumbles.
*From around **1:11:00** the speaker disingenuously asserts **_"When the one country two systems ends in 2047, that a lot of people in Hong Kong who like to remain free will not be free and a lot of people in Taiwan who like to be free will in the end not be free. They will be unified but on the conditions dictated by China. That's the issue, right? And I don't see a story here that begins to respect the longing for democratic freedom that you see in Taiwan and you see in Hong Kong."_* *Two problems with the statement. (1) Is he serious when he says Kong Kongers will no longer be free after 1947? That is utterly disingenuous if not downright dishonest. Has he actually visited China? Does he really think mainland Chinese have no freedom? (2) What is the nonsense about _"longing for democratic freedom that you see in Taiwan and you see in Hong Kong"_? Has the speaker already forgotten that the British did not introduce democracy to Hong Kong during their rule? Westerners typically speak from both sides of their mouths depending on what suit them. They continue to wear the stain of colonial mentality that they know more and are better than everybody else. That is purely delusional*
Being from Canada, the Canadian rep at the table (can’t spelled his name off-hand; he was a prime minister want to be a few elections ago) made me laugh. “We’re in a post imperialist world.” He said it so convincingly as if he really believed it. My goodness, imperialism is just as alive and well as it were 100 years ago, just took on more insidious, more self-righteous, and more subtle forms. Ask any Latin American countries if their relationship with the USA is a post-Imperialist one. Ask the same of any African or Middle East country the same question and one will find that in the eyes of most 3rd and 4th world countries, imperialism is strong as ever. And this chap’s fear that “the world will be led by a one-party nation” is just as hilarious. He is projecting the West’s obsession about power and control to China. It is the West that wants to lead (and therefore dominate and control and push its political system on) the world. China’s worldview is different. It has no interest in leading the world. It has no interest in convincing other countries that its system is superior or should be adopted. To each it’s own. If the West wants a multi-party system, have fun with it. China doesn’t care. We like differences. So don’t worry, Mr. Prime Minister want-to-be. You couldn’t beg China hard enough to “lead the world.” That is too much trouble for China.
VERY well said! I only wish my fellow Westerners had more of an understanding of China, her current, changing system and vision of the future. Unfortunately, they have erected a wall, between what they have been told China is; and those of us TRYING to break through and show them the truth. I continue to send out videos like this and Dr Mahbubani , (who does an even better job as a non-Chinese expert on China’s system), to TRY and break through that wall. We are currently at an extremely dangerous point as misinformation and accusations dominate Western media about this virus. Although I have been involved for a few years in trying to change the narrative surrounding China; it is as if the elites in their arrogance have thrown a tank of gas on a smoldering fire. I wish I knew what the solution is because, I’ll be honest; I’m terrified right now.
"Leading" is such a hilarious and arrogant word when it comes to international affairs. "influence" is more reasonable to me. China is not perfect, it's just right for Chinese for now, and not so arrogant as western "liberal" world. hope it can always make the right decisions, which is extremely hard.
Because China has so many internal problems to solve it simply too busy to lead to the wold. Secondly, leading the world is not realistic in the new era, even for US. I don't think China is stupid enough to be obsessed to dominance or leading.
The ex Portuguese diplomat mentioned (1:23:07) that there should be orders in place to constraint a rising China. "The aggression of China" he purported is pure speculation. China has been accused of a crime it has not committed and "thought" will commit in the future by the western countries. These countries choose to police something not yet happened in the future whilst turn a blind eye and acquiesce in US politicians' tyranny and aggression. These countries have no moral backbones; they keep quiet on their aggressive overlord's invasions in Irag, Afghanistan and Syria. They are now ganging up on China.
Yes, I almost couldn't believe my ears when I heard this. The audacity and the sheer "holier-than-thou" mind set of the West are displayed here fully for all to see. When he claimed it is imperative to find ways to restraint a growing China, he totally forgot about the elephant in the room - the US, who is currently the bloody tyrant who terrorizes the world relentlessly and yet he chose to ignore it, nor even want to verbally explore how to " contain" US first before talk about containing China. Hypocrisy of the West once again has unequivocally won the day.
At about 1:21:00, other gentlemen suddenly became friendly to China after Eric presented a firm, undisputable, and graceful retaliation. This tells the basic fact that knowledge is power, power is status, and Francis is bacon.
This is the right answer to the theme discussed here. I think this is the reason why China develop so fast but the western countries especially the US are faced with gradually increased anxiety. When politics matters so much, they are unable to face directly to their own problems. They try to find solution to all their internal issues from outside of the world. This is fundamentally wrong. You will never get a real fix to your problems unless your face directly to the fact.
It's ok to have opinions, biased or not. I'm glad these gentlemen are speaking out, hopefully presenting a certain percentage of their population. The importance is to be able to express their thought and get answered. Mr. Li did beautifully at the table. While everyone wanted to see more about China, he delivered, clair and loud with respect. I hope we can have more talks like this. It's not just about China or US, as a big family, we should always welcome this kind of chat and questioning.
Mr. Eric Li should be a full time social scientist unlike "part time" as he claims, he would be doing a service to the world! Almost in every video he has something really provocative to offer! His argument on the question of legitimacy is just fantastic!!
From SEA asian, i do hope China continue the rise and become dominant power. The society is Confusian driven, and good thing is not aligned to any religion (secular). I believe global peace will be achieve when the dominant power is only interested with economy, trade, and sending UN peace keeper force.
12:23 Applause for this senior lady. She really speaks truthes that down to the earth, ripping off some self-claimed liberal democratic world leader's mask.
1) Countries will find their own system of governance that is most effective for delivering the best for them. So many countries have had democracy and failed before so clearly it is not the panacea 2) Democracy in itself does not ensure cream rises to the top. In recent times many have descended into becoming a popularity/reality show spectacle. 3) Democratic systems have merits in check and balance but also cause log jam when parties represent two sides of the same coin or are too far opposed to each other that they block progress in interest of power. Long view policies then become meaningless as short term patch work ends up the prescription for the hour. Clearly if Democracy in itself is a sacred cow that cannot be discussed, modified or discarded for alternatives, then there is a problem and the West has hermetically sealed itself into its own mental prison believing in the fallacy that it is 'free'. Good discussion. Would have liked a bit more presentation from Non Western countries say India who have experience with Democracy or from Western countries like Russia who had a fling with it but to disastrous ends. This round table still very much representative of old order.
I think all these old people from Europe and America they should be more concerned about there own country and the way it is ruled. China is on the right path the people are living a happy and prospering life. So please leave chian and think about yourself. See what is going on in USA.
I hope the Chinese scholars, as sincere as they want to be, come to realise that a lot of the questions being asked in situations like this, were actually false propositions. Like the one from the former EU official, he asked "China said many times and at many places that it has no intention to dominate the world, and hasn't done so externally in the past years, but how can we be sure it will not in the future?" What he was actually saying, and really not asking, was, "We cannot trust China, never did, don't and are likely not from where we stand nowadays. And China needs to fulfil our criteria and join our framework, so we can perhaps be a bit more receptive to a country, which we consider is totally different from us". Eric, by all means, was very patient to actually explain a lot, but he could also address the foundation of these false propositions and ask back "trust depends on both sides, and what can you do to contribute to a win-win cooperative relationship with China." 最近看到沈逸教授说起TikTok 事件时，谈到中国企业的全球化进程中的对国际环境的认知和有效的回应确实还有些距离。在政治经济体制讨论时，我希望越来越多的中国学者或企业家能看到有的问题实际上是假命题。看似在问，实际在重复内在的认知偏差和刻板印象，因为对方缺乏对自己体制之外的基本的想象力甚至好奇心。像这位前欧盟官员问到“中国在很多地方说她不想称霸，过去也没曾称霸，但我们如何确定他将来以后不会称霸？” 让对方承诺未来本身就是假命题，他实则在说，而不是问，“我们过去就是这样干的，所以我们不信任中国，过去没信任过，目前看来也不会，你们中国如何能符合我们的要求和框架，然后我们才能决定是否会信任你们”。李世墨先生非常认真和耐心的解释了很多，但他也可以反问，“信任是靠双方的，我们一个巴掌拍不响，如果你们真有诚意去实现共赢，那你们会做出什么来共同达到一个信任默契度？” 西方的民间问题在政府中得不到彻底的讨论，人民觉得精英在背后渔利；但正是这种”你来迎合我的心态，不是你赢就是我输的”竞争心态让领导力缺乏人民的基础。好的是一部分知识分子在自省，但超出到自己体制外后，就显得脑力不足了
Good to have both Europe and China represented in the discussions. Refreshing and informative, I can see them working well together for a more peaceful and better world.
The foundation of democracy is the election process. And that’s the problem, the election process has become a gladiator fight, while the candidate just focus on attacking the opponent to win the election. The process has become more and more vicious, mean and dirty with almost no limit in sight. So no matter how dirty the candidate employed, as long as he or she wins, it becomes legitimate, and the citizens forgive what this person has done. In addition, campaign needs enormous amount of money, so it’s controlled by the special interest groups eventually, so matter who wins. So the policy is set to help these special interest groups to make more more, and that could including staring wars against other countries. Furthermore, presidents office can be held by different persons, but the problems with democracy never get fixed.
In view of pandemic, the arguments in this discussion were a total waste of time. Nature will choose the society which can best organize themselves - the group of peoples who can deliver the maximum capability to deal with nature. The rest will be obsolete after more challenges from nature.
1. This discussion is before the pandemic, right? 2. China has already controlled the situation. Face the fact. 3. If you don't want to discuss about the good system, good governance, you will face more and more crisis in the future.
It's a good discussion and at least the West is a bit more open minded to China's System. However, we still have a long way to go in effectively telling the "Story of China". Thank you to GUAN.
我们特别要感谢Nexus官方独家授权给我们翻译视频，请大家多多支持Nexus官方频道，官方频道里面有更多视频哦～ 频道地址：ruclips.net/user/TheNexusInstitutevideos
ruclips.net/video/1BZP1J_hzT0/видео.html 原视频地址，里面还有一部有名的话剧和嘉宾介绍
让我去参与 Nexus 的演讲和讨论，我会用 “制度原理” 来阐释 “自由民主” 为啥衰败了，我有足够的信心说服他们。 说实在，我已经看穿了 “国家制度” 的一切，确实弄明白了制度的全部逻辑，可是，我是理工科出生，苦于文字能力不够，写出来的文章没文采，怕没人喜欢看。 我希望能与 李世默 合作，来揭示 “制度” 的真理
造成今天世界混乱的主要原因，在于西方：物质文明高度发达了而精神世界却没有任何进化，甚至进一步堕落，所以我们今天看到的是，西方人西装革履，装出一副“绅士”的样子，讲出的道理依然是海盗祖先的逻辑。今天东西方要能顺利进行沟通、达成和谐，必须要在最基本的人类价值方面达成共识：什么是真正的人权、什么是真正的民主、什么是合理的自由，以及人类共同应有的行为准则。制度应是依据不同地理历史文化条件下实现这些人类价值的合理手段，不是问题的根本。所以，现在讨论制度的优劣，实在是舍本求末。
@@kingstanfung 作為台灣人我覺得你對李世默的批評太刻薄了。李世默有攻有守，我不覺得他被圍攻，就算面對群舌，他也不卑不亢，表現算是可圈可點。
@@peterweston9376 精神世界的堕落是当今世界普遍性问题，似乎西方更加严重，而不中不西的地区就完全演变成为价值观的崩塌。一旦这种堕落无法制止，社会撕裂就是必然的结果。
@@kingstanfung 我怎么感觉怼他的都被怼回去了🐸🐸🐸
三点得着：1，必须掌握英语，而且要深度掌握这门国际通用语言。因为这是发出中国声音的必要条件。2，必须掌握西方思维方式和表达方式。不然鸡同鸭讲，无法沟通。3，必须深刻掌握历史、政治、经济、人文的综合知识，不然无法让西方深度理解我们的观点，因为我们有完全不同的价值观和历史观。而这三点李世默先生都做到了，中国需要很多这样的精英！bravo👍👍👍
他们太感性了，不会哲学思考。
总不想普通话成为世界的普通话，妳还真不适后做中国人。
@@fonglantong940 首先面对现实，才能创造未来
比17年论坛那个只会说中国好的张教授更厉害， 当场打脸他们 确实厉害 以后见到白左就这么打脸他们
记得看过一个对语言使用的调查，全世界使用汉语和英语的人口差不多，英语略多。不过很不一样的一点汉语的使用人口很多都是第一语言，而把英语作为第二语言的人口数量甚至比西班牙语这个使用人口数排第三的还多。我们有一个很大的基数，但是确实还没有影响世界。所以看到你这句话觉得说的非常好
同学们，如果喜欢这类的视频请多多转发点赞评论呀，这样我们才有更大的动力继续！翻译这个视频真是累倒了观观...
哈哈，辛苦了
辛苦辛苦
辛苦辛苦，“不破不立”翻译的很有特色，即使与原意有点出入。
赏你一个飞吻（来自一个满脸胡茬的胖子->_->）
非常喜欢。请加油！
If you can debate with people like these (1 vs the rest) with your SECOND language, you know how much effort and wisdom it requires. Respect.
good point
其实很多学者都是用第二语言，比如那个法国的，第二点我赞同您的话，但是您这个论据不足以证明张真的比其他的好，您只证明他在1对多会吃亏
傲慢就是这样的了
@@abcd-q1n5e 我不知道你想表达什么，法国人讲英语容易程度和中国人讲英语能比么？
@@jayablec 对于正常人来说是的，他可曾经给邓小平当过翻译，英语水平几乎可以和母语者相比的吧？否则根本不可能来当翻译
李世默对于西方话语模式的掌握非常棒，很巧妙地表达了自己的观点，这种对于语言和对话的掌握能力甚至碾压了现场的这几位西方人...佩服！为祖国辩护的时候我们不能只强硬输出，而是要注意方法！
确实，比起张维为的强硬态度既表达了自己的观点又巧妙的避开了对方的群起而攻之，赞👍🏻
@@王成-r7x 张维为本身是外交家背景出身 李世默长期混迹于西方社会 不能强求张维为教授 而且是他们上来就各种指责 真理在大炮射程之内 再过几年 张维为教授上去 他们就不是这个态度了
【毛共製造武漢肺炎病毒】
1、為何拘留李文亮艾珍等金潭醫院的醫生和檢驗師並逼李文亮寫散播病毒謠言悔過書？
2、事發後衛健單位專家王廣發赴武漢視察受訪時睜眼瞎說不會人傳人，這樣的發言明顯包藏禍心，王一回北京立馬因染疫住院。
3、為何不讓各各國專家面訪石正麗？而石對有人置疑她從是合成病毒的論文提出質疑，石為何不回應？p4實驗室是國際最高規格的微生物實驗室，你毛共原沒有能力設立，是請法國人設計和規範，法國人對選址有決定權，法國人只同意你毛共設在已有P3實驗室的城市，武漢被選上就是已有P3實驗室，而當法國人在監造後1／4工程時，被你毛共下逐客令，最後實驗室建成什麽樣？法國專家一概不知，但個中另搞花樣是絕對可能的。
4、依據世界各國微生物實驗室的不成文規定，P3要有十年以上經驗才能進階P4，但武漢的P3還未滿十年，而當P4成立後，先期三到五年也只能做P3的實驗，直到研究人員助理和助工對實驗作業的流程和控管都達到100％安全無缺失後，才能正式進行最危險的新微生物研究和實驗，但武漢的P4是2013年才完工，2015年就已經著手最危險微生物的研究和實驗，這樣不嚴謹的研究和實驗態度，會出意外，則根本是1000％必然會發生的。
5、當封城後，你毛共和其他國家派出政府衛健單位出面處理防疫工作不同，而是指派生物部隊接管武漢防疫工作，出動戰時的備用方艙，由女性少將指揮官陳薇總其事，完全是打生物戰的作派，陳薇在要進入武漢疫區前，先在攝影機鏡頭前打防疫針，電視上也出現2月15日出廠的疫苗藥瓶，如果你毛共不是早知道這種病毒，否則是無法在疫爆20天內就生產出疫苗，故由此可見往前推算，研發疫苗至少九個月，那也就是說P4武漢實驗室，在去年三四月間就已製成此種人工合成病毒。
@@allenpoon7745 evidence plz. with links thx
@@allenpoon7745 You are irrelevant
Eric Li has such a unique way of delivering a message. Calm, composed, eloquent, well-thought out. What a brilliant example for all of us.
Time and again he demonstrates the brilliance of his arguments...
If you trust him. I don't.
Communist seek world domination. Not the good way.
Tienamen Square was so peaceful.
Not so peaceful with India. And Tibet, yes I'm listening.
don't think so. a lot of point could be answered better based on knowledge and policy understanding which this platform required.
@@calvinbowen3940 well. let me ask you the same question. if china trying to influence Texas to be independent and we both know Texas do have the intention to be independent. what us will do ? the first priority is to avoid that happening. not only because it belong to us before in history(which is not the real case for texas), but because when Texas out, us will loose a big economic and taxation support , which trigger negative impact to other American in other regions. other, Texas, though strong, will be easier to be manipulated by other counties. and in this case, back to the topic, people benefits won't be guaranteed compared to when they belonged to their historical concept.
This young Chinese guy logically nailed it and kept all 'wise' old Western experts silent.
Although he was in minority and surrounded by western democrats but with his words and reasoning, he did not allow anyone to dominate him.
A brilliant example of debate and argument in its sublime form.
非常佩服李世默先生，作为一个上海人即感到骄傲又感到自愧。我们身处海外必须要不断提高自己用理智的，知性的心态为祖国发声。
拜托，他到底说了什么，他全篇也就是一个亮点，很多该说的都没有说，还讲什么，南海问题就放过我们别提了。为什么不提，有太多的点可以解释南海问题，正大光明的对抗。
搞得好像我们理亏一样，真不知道是不是没人了才让他上
一个容易感到骄傲的人，不知从何而来的骄傲。
@@changkaiwang5301 没有你的嘴炮，的确不值一提。
祖国只不过是赚钱的工具吧…最早和茅道临一起，然后之后搞的成为资本，和邓小平孙女卓玥一起，这些红色资本…
@@jasonshen4302 那怎么赚得没有马云刘强东多？让你吃了？
李世默舌战群🐯，精彩绝伦，虎狼环视，毫无怯惧，沉稳机智，侃侃君子之风，真国士，真勇士，国之瑰宝！
中国在国际上没有话语权。力挺此频道和媒体。还有为中国发声的人。辛苦。大家一起加油哦！
是啊，你看到结尾的那个前欧盟委员会主席讨论的关于欧洲该如何叙事时，他说的真的在给我们提个醒啊，话语权很重要！之前我们闷声发大财只干不说，现在张维为教授力推讲好中国故事我也才体会他这么做的目的，果然张维为教授还是深有远见啊
是啊，你看到结尾的那个前欧盟委员会主席讨论的关于欧洲该如何叙事时，他说的真的在给我们提个醒啊，话语权很重要！之前我们闷声发大财只干不说，现在张维为教授力推讲好中国故事我也才体会他这么做的目的，果然张维为教授还是深有远见啊
是啊，你看到结尾的那个前欧盟委员会主席讨论的关于欧洲该如何叙事时，他说的真的在给我们提个醒啊，话语权很重要！之前我们闷声发大财只干不说，现在张维为教授力推讲好中国故事我也才体会他这么做的目的，果然张维为教授还是深有远见啊
@@kingstanfung 脑子有问题，看什么都是有问题的。
Kingston Fung 你到處去留言可見你多可憐，想要曝光率這樣做也無效。有本事就不要copy and paste, 寫點像樣的東西吧！
A big applause to Eric Li! He is logic and cool with great dignity and decency!
Portuguese man also deserves applause, the british and the afghan lady, so does the american in a suit!
Eric is a humble and a man of wisdom. One cannot win a debate against one who holds the truth.
Yes... I couldn't agree more... and may I add: darkness and western propaganda cannot overcome the light of truth...
We'll see in 5 years time how peaceful China really is.
Eric don't really tell China story sound and clear. he should have better way to enlight these people who on purpose or not on purpose blackmail China
@@calvinbowen3940 well. that's why we are so prepared for the military strength. if outsider power, don't invade, we just get prepare. if it is, let's see who gonna win the war. as a young Chinese, if there is invasion, I will devote all of my strength and even life to teach the invadet a lesson, now is fucking different from before. many Chinese are like me, if you want, you can have a damn try
@@calvinbowen3940 I think you will be asking that question for the next 100 years
8 vs 1.. Wow, Speechless.. This show how weak and insecure you guys really are.. Well Done Eric
Eric is smart, sharp, profoundly knowledgeable, eloquent, cogent, persuasive, relevant...oh, I run out of words for this guy.
and good looking!
我居然花了将近两个小时，看完了整个视频，你敢信？
个人认为，这个视频干货很多，值得我花俩小时看，很有启发性。
我习惯了任何视频都2倍速看,所以就节约了大半时间
@@zhaobu9326 我不习惯加速看，语气和一些细节会忽略掉，接收知识的广度和深度都有一些影响。
@@马黎刚 主要是英文信息密集度低了点，看中文字幕就觉得节奏太慢了，1.5倍速比较合适
@@andrewluo1465 留给自己一点儿思考和判断的时间
第一次有点困，听了不到一半睡着了，醒后重新听到结尾，不用字幕。
我支持任何一个敢于为自己祖国发生的中国人。我感激我所生活中的祖国让我免于战火，免于流离失所，让我只要劳动就不会饿肚子。世界是复杂的，不要以为一切幸福都来得理所当然。中国加油。中国青年加油。
支持美国！天佑美利坚！支持灭共斗士特朗普连任
@@阿拳 但凡有一点人格也不至於有此等想法。
除開你生活在中國台湾地區。
如果是,不或值評.......。
@@陈建鴻 我支持台湾香港独立，达赖喇嘛直接回西藏建国独立，新疆成立高度自治的政权。由美国为首的西方联军攻陷北京，教教共匪什么是世界规则
拜托！如果你今晚口袋里有倆過銀算我輸😂😂😂
@@陈建鴻 没办法，不会勾结贪官啊。。。。
Eric Li (李世默) did very well in this forum. Wasn't excessively defensive when put on a spot by 4 or 5 western voices questioning the Chinese Government's legitimacy, the perceived threat of a rising China, the situation in Hong Kong and Taiwan, and fear of China becoming another hegemon. He was clam, his responses were thoughtful, drawing references from history, citing present-day realities to illustrate what a non-interventionist, peaceful rise, even with its more assertive nature, is like. Hopefully, it moved the needle a little in the minds of the Western audience that China is not treading the path of empire, and has no wish to dominate the region or the world.
和2017年相比，主持人在长大，对他所认为的民主少了一些激进，感谢李世默有能力为中国发声！也感谢葡萄牙人的客观公正的为中国说话。真正了解中国比从西方媒体上了解中国的人对中国更客观。
十年前，我在组织哈佛大学建筑课讨论中国山水画时，一个美国学生问了很尖锐的问题：“为什么要研究这个，是你们感觉现在轮到了你们中国人吗？”。 我将永不会忘记这个提问。
种族偏见，种族歧视，到处都有，然而，中国教育人人平等并确实这样做，所谓的西方人却呵呵了
也许你现在可以当着他的面，大声的回答他这个问题了。原生民族国家成就就是我们屹立世界民族之林的最大底气，是我们的根，很多有着皈依者狂热的早年移民，并不明白这一点。
你可以回答：we Chinese since ancient times always value diversity and harnomy of all sorts of art forms, it would be gravely unfortunate if the unenlightened fail to observe its true beauty.
中国有山水画时，美国连鬼都没有，中国一直在
因为中国的山水画研究的不好，还不够能让人信服
Eric X Li has a remarkably sharp and lucid intellect.
Cuts through a lot of the mental baggage too many in Western countries tend to carry around with them as superior to potential alternatives neglecting a lot of the harm/collateral damage the proselyting of Democracy particularly by the US has heaped on many nations.
大爱这个视频，尤其是李世默那一段，我想他很公正地展示了中国真实的一些情景。谢谢管视频制作字幕，让更多中国人可以接触到这些观点。
阿富汗的女士虽然笑着和大家聊天，但是我感觉她话里都是伤心和无奈，然后还要被人教育“凡事要靠自己，不能老想着让别人帮忙。”我想那位女士想骂街，但更可悲的是大概率她可能也习惯到没有太大的内心波动了。真心心疼。让我想起来我的1919里面，陈道明演的顾维钧，那种悲愤和无奈。
作为被大国博弈选中和被牺牲的弱国小国，能赢得辩论又如何？能骂你又如何？能抗议又如何？能愤然离场又如何？能拍拍桌子又如何？你会表示遗憾又如何？你会表示心痛又如何？你会表示同情又如何？国家之间首先还是硬实力，有了国家的硬实力，才能让一个国家的人到了这种国家间讨论的场合，有表达遗憾和同情的权利，有展示软力量的权利，同时还能痛心疾首地教育别人“自己的事情只能自己做，不要指望其他人替你做”。在阿富汗的女士谈论的时候，现场简直就是一个大型魔幻现实主义表演！讽刺啊讽刺。
作为中国人，我听完还感到有点开心的一点是，各个国家的人逐渐接受了中国崛起的现实，虽然大家都不怎么看好，也不想承认。这让我作为中国人，有一种“我知道你看我不爽，又拿我没办法”的小小快感。我知道这是一种夹杂了受害者心态和复仇心态的恶趣味，但是我自己感觉很受用。
但这并不意味着我希望中国未来会找其他国家通过武力方式复仇。作为一个中国人，我不希望国家通过战争来解决发展问题，我也相信中国不会这样做。因为我们知道作为落后的挨打国家伤痛有多大。“己所不欲，勿施于人”。我们中国人是这么想的，大多数时候也是这么做的。
是的 本来阿富汗算是个中等偏上的国家
她非常明显的指出了西方国家的双标“你们张口闭口的都是仁义道德和自由民主，那么发生在我家的算是个什么事情？” 正因为他们习惯和享受侵略和掠夺带来的巨大利益，所以他们心里当然是惧怕别国强大后以同样的方式来对待他们。
Ellie N ^_^
打铁还需自身硬hh
我觉得只是现在我们这样想，因为我们还不是最强。如果我们是最强我们绝对会和美国一样，可能方式不一样但是效果绝对一样。这不是一个公平的世界。丛林法则不可能消亡。因为这就是人类
李先生风趣幽默自信大方具有个人魅力和专业素养，也不可否认仅仅两年国家发展之迅速让圆桌间的谈话气氛都发生了变化，更加尊重和融洽了，所以国强才能民尊/爱中国为中国人自豪。
We must define "freedom" first before the discussion. When people said "Hong Kong has no freedom", I usually have to ask "what kind of freedom you think Hong Kong is missing?". When people said "China has no human rights", I usually have to ask "what kind of right you think China is lacking?". Mr. Li has a lot of patient to educate these people who obviously had been looking at China through nothing but western propaganda. When people tell me how bad China is, I usually have to ask "When is the last time you visited China to see things with your own eyes and hear things with your own ears?"
I think you are myopic when you vouch for China's sanctity when atrocities were pepetrated on its own citizens in Tianamen and now in Xinjiang after Tibet.
@@MenonMenonti Another articles for you to analyse about Tiananmen Square.
@@MenonMenonti All lies. Try looking it up instead of swallowing propaganda. The only thing close to an atrocity was Tiananmen Square. But the numbers are clearly exaggerated. There's no evidence that the official numbers are wrong. They put it at 200 people including soldiers. That's right, these peaceful protesters attacked and killed soldiers.
Many westerners are harping about freedom of speech but do not realized they really don’t have one. A bad comment on yt is taken down all the time for example. The west don’t understand how the chinese view the ccp and why are platforms like FB or YT are banned. Most chinese view their ccp gov as their father or head of the family by heart due to recent successful track record. Regarding the ban of FB or YT, as I mentioned above, they can control what they want you to see which is dangerous for any country. No difference to why so many countries ban porns or etc. If a platform that can be used by the US to brainwash their people, why would any country allow it? Freedom comes with responsibility. Do you have the freedom to kill? Same thing
@@blardymunggas6884 Also, the block can be easily cercumvented by using a VPN. What the great firewall really serves as is to promote usage of Chinese alternatives. Which serves most Chinese just fine. The only really downside to that is that we westerners don't get to hear their side.
But having this so called freedom, I realize most people who express opinions on the Internet are mostly morons. And like you point out, we're also subjected to censorship.
看了这么多中国和外国不管记者还是什么的辩论，李世默教授是最好的一个
其次，观观再给观视频的国际频道打个广告，请大家关注Guan Video Global，我们正在联系教授们和国际智库进行合作，之后会产出更多一手的英语视频～无字幕版的视频都会抢先资源都在Guan Video Global频道上，频道地址：ruclips.net/channel/UCMSeeM3OMEbvEFVdM5_FM3Qvideos
我有个倡议，大家去国际频道上留言的时候尽量留英语，正好练习英语嘛，不然点进去评论都是中文的，观观的努力就白费了！
请及时加上中文字幕，不要歧视我们英渣的人格🤪🤪
刘嘴炮人间 这个频道上所有视频本来就是中文版的，guan video global上的才是英文的！
让我去参与 Nexus 的演讲和讨论，我会用 “制度原理” 来阐释 “自由民主” 为啥衰败了，我有足够的信心说服他们。 说实在，我已经看穿了 “国家制度” 的一切，确实弄明白了制度的全部逻辑，可是，我是理工科出生，苦于文字能力不够，写出来的文章没文采，怕没人喜欢看。 我希望能与 李世默 合作，来揭示 “制度” 的真理
@@GineAce 你不会直接开视频吗？吹牛逼也吹得这样借口重重
Eric Li has done it again, single-handedly "destroyed" all those "liberals" and uninformed.
Eric does very well. But just one question.
1st. Why did he stay so long in the US making so much money. Why didn't he go back to china if the system in the US is so unfair.
2nd. Then it is unfair to say that there is a big gap between rich and poor in the US only because it does also exists in china where you have many billionnaires like Jack ma and peasants earning just only $200 per month. Also, the young rich generation in china is just showing off whilst there are millions of people still under the poverty standard.
3rd Then you have the cheap labour of china. Will china continue to rise when labour gets more expensive. Not sure???
Yvette Cowley one question became 3 questions...lol. I’m not Eric so I don’t know the reason why he stayed there for 9 years, but he probably stayed to get enough working experience in the US after graduation so that his CV would look great, and earning some money at the same time to start his own business. He admitted he enjoyed his stay in the US, I guess Americans were a lot more friendly then.
China also has huge rich poor gap but poor are being taken care of by the government; the beauty of socialism.
Lastly, you probably don’t know China well. China has been moving up the tech ladder and wages have increased, attracting and fulfilling the dreams of Chinese graduates who mostly are STEM graduates, so it’s no longer cheap labor. China has got more advanced tech going on with manufacturing capabilities. That’s why US is so afraid.
@@josephsiew8494 I know china much more than you think. BTW, I have great admiration for the chinese hardwork and they are very good at Maths. Hats off but what I am trying to say is that it is not socialism that made china what it is today. China has all my respects for their achievements. But you need to understand that many people (not the graduates ) working in industries are earning below $300 per month. That's not much for someone working 12 hrs a day and 6 times a week and for a country who is lending billions to African countries. There is also a big gap between the rich and the poor in china. When I was in Shanghai, I saw many stupid rich wasting their money on alcohol whilst other people were struggling to earn a decent living. Stop beleiving that china is a communist country. You probably follow fox news or CNN too often..lol
It is a capitalist country like the US except that it is progressing much faster for the fol reasons:
1. It has the largest market in the world
2. It is strategically well positioned in the East.
3. Labour is 6 times cheaper than in the west.
4. Chinese are more hardworking and obedient due to a centralized communist gov.
Money is the gold standard for the chinese. My friend, this mentality is capitalism and not SOCIALISM. Use your common sense.
Eric says many truth about the west but not everything is true. Likewise, the US says many things on china where many things are false. Always use your common sense.
@@yvettecowley873 sure, China is capitalistic, as it has always been. But, it's just not capitalist. Socialism plays a huge role in stabilizing Chiba's internal affairs, cos like you said, China's rich poor gap is huge. Poor are taken care of. For eg, you might find migrant workers being paid very little, yet they have huge savings, house in their hometown, land etc. They are just waiting for the day their house(s) got acquired by the government or developers and become rich. Or, just like my relatives who own buildings on land that was converted from farm land. They were poor, but they now live like some rich bastards all thanks to CCP. Of course, they still get their monthly pension and medical coverage. It's paradise, my friend.
Now look at US, racism has ignited the biggest riots since 1992. The underlying is also rich poor, elites vs have-nots. If only they had CCP.
@@josephsiew8494 At least we agreed on a common point. Both US and China are capitalist. It would be very ignorant to beleive that china's success is due to socialism. China is trying to do more socialism but this is due to the economic growth ( GDP increase) and you unfortunately can only speed up your economic growth via capitalism.
Ask yourself where are you now. I am sure you are from a western country . So did democracy prevent you from surviving?? The answer is NO!! Did the CCP help you to earn a living?? Again the answer is a NO!!
So as an overseas chinese, how did u survive in an unfair society like the US or UK?? The answer is simple. It is not democracy or a totalitarian gov that makes people succeed but the people themselves need to be hardworking and disciplined.
The CCP should stop believing that china's success is due to socialism when in fact the merits goes directly to the hardworking entrepreneurs.
Wealth is being distributed to the farmers but there is still an exponential gap between rich and poor in china. China is no different from the US except that you have the advantage of having a cheap labour and a hard working population. When price of labour goes up, you will start facing the same systematic problems as in the west especially that you have a 1.4 billion population to feed.
太棒了！从李世默先生那里学到了很多中外历史及辩证对比！也谢谢观观的翻译。大赞！
李世默的知识水平，有待检验～
起码，中国的镇长们管理几万人都有丰富经验，但这哥们儿有些话不太“正常”。。。
等着看吧～
他过去的发言里也有很多问题，别盲目信这哥们儿～
听听就可以了～
中华文化的厚度不是个别人能“代表”的。。。
@@leeaaron848 你能在这舆论高压下发表另一种看法吗？大多数中国人能干但不敢直面欧美人说No。
@@leeaaron848 现在是打舆论战的时候，镇长的责任和义务不在这里。各人分工不同，兄弟！
@@windyberger6840 不我是你兄弟，我也不是1450和轮子。我也不是打舆论战。。。
你是谁？
@@windyberger6840 你了解中国还是我了解中国？“大多数中国人不敢直面欧美人说no”？
你这语法肯定不是汉语吧，也不懂中国国情吧。。。
西方媒体抹黑恶心中国这么多年，你猜中国人把欧美人当哪种程度的文明来看？提示你：🍌算客气的，很多描述都追溯到圣经之前，你如果懂的话。。。
One has to admire Eric Li brilliant, logical, cogent wisdoms expressed in a way for ordinary mortals like us to understand geopolitical issues. Jia you Forever youthful Eric Li. Nin hen bang.!!!
cheers for Eric...one against 7. China has not interfered with the domestic politics of any nation.
That's not true.
Whenever China was discussed, it kind of feels like the whole table vs Eric li.
This western professors didn't come on to the table with an open mind and seems ready to nitpick on all the small things that China is doing wrong.
Exactly, but they will learn it in a really hard way,especially after corona virus outbreaks,and the protest of America.But the problem is are they smart enough to acknowledge it?If not it's just beginning.
That's already better than Nexus 2017
Actually it's much better this time. If you go back into 2018 nexus debating table, you will see how those geezers attack China with their inherent prejudice. The participants here are much more objective than last year's.
1 vs 7 still destroy them! 😂
THESE PEOPLE WILL NEVER GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE.
"THE RISE OF CHINA IN THE WORLD WITHOUT ANY VIOLENCE, IS SOMETHING TO CELEBRATE".
DAMN, NO ONE IN THE PANEL SAID ANYTHING. WHY?
PRIDE, ANIMOSITY, SUPERIORITY, .... PLAY A PART ON THEIR ATTITUDES.
ITS UNFORTUNATE.
Eric won the debate for sure.China needs more rhetoricians like him in the international forum.
我喜欢看这样的视频，真实的，公正的，坦然的，说出自己的意识型态，让真实呈现，不强加于人，让真实呈现。让观者有独立的思考空间。
翻译辛苦，看完这近两小时也不容易。
李世默先生的对答有理有据，痛快人心。
不觉得，很多都没有说明白。
翻译感觉故意漏了很多短语
李世默先生的逻辑与口才令人折服！向李世默教授致敬！在任何恶劣的情况下，依然有理有据的向世界阐述了自己的理念，这也是绝大多数中国人的 理念。现在的中国人真的越来越自信了。我是中国人，我自豪！❤️
从张维维老师才Nexus论坛上的辩论就开始关注这个圆桌平台。但一直以来的视频都是零散的片段，包括Nexus官方频道也没有完整的视频，实在不便于完整地理解辩论论题。今天终于出了一集完整的，加油继续啊。
b站有张维为的完整视频
李世默中国人的楷模和骄傲，给 你点赞。
【三年毛禍大饑荒死多少】海外說的都沒有實際死的多，周恩來在1953年下令將地方報中央的匯報饑荒材料銷毀，當放火燒時，放火人員將數字記下是5800萬～6000萬之間，這和民國地下情報員當年報給臺灣的數字相符，後來楊尚昆當公安部長清查是9600萬人（雲南老人邵正祥說，邵是李銳秘書），所以外界的數字都比毛共自己統計的數字要少，因此大家也不必在數字上求精細，總之史達林對毛賊東說；“中國人太多應該減少一億”，老毛就照著做，饑荒加文革和三反五反四清，加總算一算，老毛達到了史達林的要求。
@@allenpoon7745 这数据都编的出来……关键是还有一群脑残相信。那是个中国才5亿-6亿人口，怎么可能饿死5800万人。
@@allenpoon7745
228
李老师年纪轻轻，口才和逻辑思维，阅历，思维深度都让人佩服
李应该有50岁了，但很年轻
四十多了
The function of Democracy is to have elections to fulfill the individual's desire for equality and rights. But to choose a leader by an election only prove the campaign's success but not the chosen leader's ability to manage a country. It misses the point, so Democracy without modification is an outdated sub-standard system.
Election is basically a popularity contest like their highschool.
犀利的评论～优秀的观点
Exactly look at US elected one Orange Man in the last election with ego and may elect another dead man walking (Old man can't make few sentences put tougher also with Covid-19 kept in basements in case he got infected I suppose) then in UK elected a pure and simple unqualified fool now facing worst death rate out of Covid-19 out of the whole world as per Millions Population. Whereas the CCP has a system you must prove yourself you can govern a large province before becoming as a leader of the country. That shows the benefits to the most of the Chinese people their standard of living has gone several folds whereas US/UK standard of living going down. More and More people in US/UK living relying on foodbanks.
individual's desire VS Maximize social benefits= compromise compromise VS truth = contradiction
if the contraiction would not be chanllenged, it become a self-reinforcement common sense
well said man
I have come back to this discussion a few times. Eric handles the group well, being sensitive and respectful towards the bewildered participants from across the Atlantic. I couldn't help feeling, though, that everyone was beating around the bush, missing some key point. Eric insists that the West should consider alternatives to Western liberal democracy. They refuse to accept this proposition because they still believe that their system is superior than any alternative. They have yet to come out of the shadow of Churchill's well known remark: "Democracy is the worst form of government, but it's better than the alternatives that we know of," or something to this effect.
The standard defense of liberal democracy by Western politicians and intellectuals is the separation of administrative, legislative and judicial powers, whereby the government's power is defined and confined by law. Be that as it may, it is well acknowledged that real political power in the West lies with money, in the hands of financial oligarchs and special interest groups who influence and control government policy making. Are the legislative and judicial powers as designed and exercised in Western liberal democracy capable of curbing and controlling this real power? If not, the standard defense falls apart automatically, or so it follows. In all debates on liberal democracy, I find this question not asked and I tend to think that this is the root of the bewilderment felt across the the Atlantic and the world.
You can't win a debate losing your temper, so Eric Li was well-prepared in not fighting head-on but talking like he's on their side and never losing his composure. For example, he basically said China's rise hasn't fired a single shot and he qualified it with "NOT YET" -> that's the killer there.
But, watch the video where Eric Li says the West (namely USA) throws everything and the kitchen sink at China. In that video, Eric Li is much more candid in his thoughts. It's also pretty funny hearing how Eric Li really feels about the West's fumbles.
希望将来有更多的人才像李世默先生来为中国加油
*From around **1:11:00** the speaker disingenuously asserts **_"When the one country two systems ends in 2047, that a lot of people in Hong Kong who like to remain free will not be free and a lot of people in Taiwan who like to be free will in the end not be free. They will be unified but on the conditions dictated by China. That's the issue, right? And I don't see a story here that begins to respect the longing for democratic freedom that you see in Taiwan and you see in Hong Kong."_*
*Two problems with the statement. (1) Is he serious when he says Kong Kongers will no longer be free after 1947? That is utterly disingenuous if not downright dishonest. Has he actually visited China? Does he really think mainland Chinese have no freedom? (2) What is the nonsense about _"longing for democratic freedom that you see in Taiwan and you see in Hong Kong"_? Has the speaker already forgotten that the British did not introduce democracy to Hong Kong during their rule? Westerners typically speak from both sides of their mouths depending on what suit them. They continue to wear the stain of colonial mentality that they know more and are better than everybody else. That is purely delusional*
yes indeed, the moderator/speaker is not moderate at all from his mouth.. he keeps bad-mouthing China.
Well said. I’m a bit disappointed that Eric didn’t address and crash this ridiculous statement
从N年前的Ted演讲就开始不自觉的钦佩Eric，在一个国际社交环境中，怎么才能有理有节的阐述自己观点，不失幽默，又避免针尖对麦芒的直接叫板，委婉的把你的问题给顶回去，这个是需要社会积淀的，甚至没有一定情商，你都不一定能理解他拐的那层弯，所以才会有人妄言他的回答很普通。事实是你压根都没搞清楚状况。别的不说，就说他的英文素养，有几个国外名牌大学毕业的敢说自己能有他的词汇语法？更别说是实时组织语言进行辩论。
这样的节目非常精彩感谢🙏观视频的工作👏👏👏👏
Great debate. Thank you! Strongly agree with Eric Li. ...I wish prof. of economics, Richard Wolff could join debate.
2019年的明显已经比往年的更加“愿意理解东西方差异”了。·
Being from Canada, the Canadian rep at the table (can’t spelled his name off-hand; he was a prime minister want to be a few elections ago) made me laugh. “We’re in a post imperialist world.” He said it so convincingly as if he really believed it. My goodness, imperialism is just as alive and well as it were 100 years ago, just took on more insidious, more self-righteous, and more subtle forms. Ask any Latin American countries if their relationship with the USA is a post-Imperialist one. Ask the same of any African or Middle East country the same question and one will find that in the eyes of most 3rd and 4th world countries, imperialism is strong as ever. And this chap’s fear that “the world will be led by a one-party nation” is just as hilarious. He is projecting the West’s obsession about power and control to China. It is the West that wants to lead (and therefore dominate and control and push its political system on) the world. China’s worldview is different. It has no interest in leading the world. It has no interest in convincing other countries that its system is superior or should be adopted. To each it’s own. If the West wants a multi-party system, have fun with it. China doesn’t care. We like differences. So don’t worry, Mr. Prime Minister want-to-be. You couldn’t beg China hard enough to “lead the world.” That is too much trouble for China.
Justin Wong 👍🤝👍
VERY well said! I only wish my fellow Westerners had more of an understanding of China, her current, changing system and vision of the future. Unfortunately, they have erected a wall, between what they have been told China is; and those of us TRYING to break through and show them the truth. I continue to send out videos like this and Dr Mahbubani , (who does an even better job as a non-Chinese expert on China’s system), to TRY and break through that wall. We are currently at an extremely dangerous point as misinformation and accusations dominate Western media about this virus. Although I have been involved for a few years in trying to change the narrative surrounding China; it is as if the elites in their arrogance have thrown a tank of gas on a smoldering fire. I wish I knew what the solution is because, I’ll be honest; I’m terrified right now.
Michael Ignatief
"Leading" is such a hilarious and arrogant word when it comes to international affairs. "influence" is more reasonable to me. China is not perfect, it's just right for Chinese for now, and not so arrogant as western "liberal" world. hope it can always make the right decisions, which is extremely hard.
Because China has so many internal problems to solve it simply too busy to lead to the wold. Secondly, leading the world is not realistic in the new era, even for US. I don't think China is stupid enough to be obsessed to dominance or leading.
The ex Portuguese diplomat mentioned (1:23:07) that there should be orders in place to constraint a rising China. "The aggression of China" he purported is pure speculation. China has been accused of a crime it has not committed and "thought" will commit in the future by the western countries. These countries choose to police something not yet happened in the future whilst turn a blind eye and acquiesce in US politicians' tyranny and aggression. These countries have no moral backbones; they keep quiet on their aggressive overlord's invasions in Irag, Afghanistan and Syria. They are now ganging up on China.
They are chauvinistic so and do not know of any other manners a d can only think of war to show their muscles
共匪害死的中国人比西方杀的人多几百倍，连自己人都杀，你还期望他会善待世界？
Yes, I almost couldn't believe my ears when I heard this. The audacity and the sheer "holier-than-thou" mind set of the West are displayed here fully for all to see. When he claimed it is imperative to find ways to restraint a growing China, he totally forgot about the elephant in the room - the US, who is currently the bloody tyrant who terrorizes the world relentlessly and yet he chose to ignore it, nor even want to verbally explore how to " contain" US first before talk about containing China. Hypocrisy of the West once again has unequivocally won the day.
观视频的反应越来越快，鼓励鼓励！ 希望以后能做出更多符合现代宣传规律的高质量视频
别用“宣传”一词，政治属性太偏了，还是叫交流吧
欣赏感动李先生的沉着和勇气既使面对众白人等的挑战。好个爱国样儿！
At about 1:21:00, other gentlemen suddenly became friendly to China after Eric presented a firm, undisputable, and graceful retaliation. This tells the basic fact that knowledge is power, power is status, and Francis is bacon.
這個世界就好像一個課室,近年來中國學生經常攞到很高的分數,所以外國同學話你作弊,但是這位中國學生回答了所有考試時的問題,最後考到第一名.
western: all politics matter vs china: all facts matter
This is the right answer to the theme discussed here. I think this is the reason why China develop so fast but the western countries especially the US are faced with gradually increased anxiety. When politics matters so much, they are unable to face directly to their own problems. They try to find solution to all their internal issues from outside of the world. This is fundamentally wrong. You will never get a real fix to your problems unless your face directly to the fact.
@@zhujoseph4046 thay are all liars
李世默先生的逻辑与口才令人折服
不仅如此，eric总是用统计事实真相来说服别人
@@thomasfang5156 With wrong Cause and Effect.
It's ok to have opinions, biased or not. I'm glad these gentlemen are speaking out, hopefully presenting a certain percentage of their population.
The importance is to be able to express their thought and get answered.
Mr. Li did beautifully at the table. While everyone wanted to see more about China, he delivered, clair and loud with respect.
I hope we can have more talks like this. It's not just about China or US, as a big family, we should always welcome this kind of chat and questioning.
这样的节目才是全球人民应该关注的！！！！！
Eric Li 真是人才………思路清晰 英文有趣。 如果这样的人再多一些就好了
教育很重要
@@still451 对! Eric在美国的学习经历和工作经历同样重要
Mr. Eric Li should be a full time social scientist unlike "part time" as he claims, he would be doing a service to the world! Almost in every video he has something really provocative to offer! His argument on the question of legitimacy is just fantastic!!
That is really a joke.
1:44:56 authoritarian 应该翻译为威权主义，不是极权主义（totalitarian）
From SEA asian, i do hope China continue the rise and become dominant power. The society is Confusian driven, and good thing is not aligned to any religion (secular). I believe global peace will be achieve when the dominant power is only interested with economy, trade, and sending UN peace keeper force.
看完了全视频，也就是李世默的发言最有说服力，逻辑性强，知识面广，思想开放！LOL
阿富汗这女的，说的更实际。难道就因为一部分人不喜欢另外一部分人就可以制造武器杀它们嘛？这句话可以理解为恐怖主义对平民，美国对平民的杀戮。
好几个人都说的很好 你不要这么狭隘 如果偏激 我觉得李的观点比较偏激 要强行让别人认同他的观点 虽然我也认同 不是完全认同 其他大部分变论人并没有这么坚定的答案
@@tracymcgrady9231 但是事实就是不管你说的有多对，你没有实力，是没人理你的
他有没有和张先生一样 说共产党的影响力！
@@大力-w5z 没错，李的辩论把论点和事实阐述了出来，但没必要偏执于所谓“霸气”这都没用，这不是外交战是峰会交流，我觉得爱国很好但观点并不是越坚定越正确，反而应该允许弹性和反对面，过于要强其实谁都可以，但别人没有并不是什么软弱，这里都是有点地位的，关键是人家hold得住
ERIC LI, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR PATIENT PERSEVERANCE...
阿富汗的女士在不停地强调尊重人权 我从她身上看到当一个国家弱小混乱的时候是多么的无助 无法自保 只能恳求其他的大国良心发现
Thanks Eric Li for speaking up!
Who wants to see Eric Li debate Steve Bannon? THAT would be the debate of the century!
李世默先生的论证很厉害，以子之矛攻子之盾
沒錯 這就是破除歐美雙標跟一直自以為是的最大回應策略
几年前TED talk我就看过，今天再见，这才是大神。
虽然李先生因为各种各样的原因有自己的立场（中性表达），但他真的像一个战士一样，在表达和“主流”不一样的观点，令人敬佩。
顺便说，虽然不想踩一捧一，但很明显李世默比张维为更懂得和西方人沟通的技巧。
12:23 Applause for this senior lady. She really speaks truthes that down to the earth, ripping off some self-claimed liberal democratic world leader's mask.
She surprised me as well. She seemed soft, but was brutally honest about the human consequences of political actions.
respect
三国演义的第一句就完全阐明了论题的观点，天下大事，分久必合，合久必分。分合之间产生一些物竞天择很正常，但国以民为本，国为世之根，这是不会错的。
英国人做的结尾虽然很空，但很正面，面面俱到，可能英文是母语的原因，这其实也是一直价值观。
本视频是看到的最棒的视频之一，赞！
之前有看到过这个片段，但是从来不知道Eric LI是谁。WOW 真的敬佩，一个人debate这么多而且不是用母语。我看到很多人下面留言说台上很多母语也不是英语，但是荷兰人讲英语可以很快pick up，中国人能把英语deliver的这么狠准令人尊重，Eric直接成为我偶像了。
你speak的好做作哦～希望你能不能no一边说着Chinese一边speak英语，这样look得挺烦的
@@ziyuliu595 绿营贱货？
被李世默先生圈粉！！！圈粉！
1) Countries will find their own system of governance that is most effective for delivering the best for them. So many countries have had democracy and failed before so clearly it is not the panacea
2) Democracy in itself does not ensure cream rises to the top. In recent times many have descended into becoming a popularity/reality show spectacle.
3) Democratic systems have merits in check and balance but also cause log jam when parties represent two sides of the same coin or are too far opposed to each other that they block progress in interest of power. Long view policies then become meaningless as short term patch work ends up the prescription for the hour.
Clearly if Democracy in itself is a sacred cow that cannot be discussed, modified or discarded for alternatives, then there is a problem and the West has hermetically sealed itself into its own mental prison believing in the fallacy that it is 'free'.
Good discussion. Would have liked a bit more presentation from Non Western countries say India who have experience with Democracy or from Western countries like Russia who had a fling with it but to disastrous ends. This round table still very much representative of old order.
当观视频的订阅越来越多的时候，我们就会越来越有信心。
I think all these old people from Europe and America they should be more concerned about there own country and the way it is ruled. China is on the right path the people are living a happy and prospering life. So please leave chian and think about yourself. See what is going on in USA.
I hope the Chinese scholars, as sincere as they want to be, come to realise that a lot of the questions being asked in situations like this, were actually false propositions. Like the one from the former EU official, he asked "China said many times and at many places that it has no intention to dominate the world, and hasn't done so externally in the past years, but how can we be sure it will not in the future?" What he was actually saying, and really not asking, was, "We cannot trust China, never did, don't and are likely not from where we stand nowadays. And China needs to fulfil our criteria and join our framework, so we can perhaps be a bit more receptive to a country, which we consider is totally different from us". Eric, by all means, was very patient to actually explain a lot, but he could also address the foundation of these false propositions and ask back "trust depends on both sides, and what can you do to contribute to a win-win cooperative relationship with China."
最近看到沈逸教授说起TikTok 事件时，谈到中国企业的全球化进程中的对国际环境的认知和有效的回应确实还有些距离。在政治经济体制讨论时，我希望越来越多的中国学者或企业家能看到有的问题实际上是假命题。看似在问，实际在重复内在的认知偏差和刻板印象，因为对方缺乏对自己体制之外的基本的想象力甚至好奇心。像这位前欧盟官员问到“中国在很多地方说她不想称霸，过去也没曾称霸，但我们如何确定他将来以后不会称霸？” 让对方承诺未来本身就是假命题，他实则在说，而不是问，“我们过去就是这样干的，所以我们不信任中国，过去没信任过，目前看来也不会，你们中国如何能符合我们的要求和框架，然后我们才能决定是否会信任你们”。李世墨先生非常认真和耐心的解释了很多，但他也可以反问，“信任是靠双方的，我们一个巴掌拍不响，如果你们真有诚意去实现共赢，那你们会做出什么来共同达到一个信任默契度？” 西方的民间问题在政府中得不到彻底的讨论，人民觉得精英在背后渔利；但正是这种”你来迎合我的心态，不是你赢就是我输的”竞争心态让领导力缺乏人民的基础。好的是一部分知识分子在自省，但超出到自己体制外后，就显得脑力不足了
There’s hope if the whole world can sit down and talk reasonably like this!
没用的，每个代表都会代表他们自身利益。西方最大的问题是美国还想维持它的霸主地位，但是欧洲却想和中国贸易以提振经济，你说被霸凌那么久，有哪个欧洲国家敢反抗美国的意志，中国只是想做生意，同时也不想再受西方国家的气而已。如果发生事情才能让全世界达成统一意见，我想只有当美国不再想霸凌全球或者有外星文明入侵地球，威胁人类生活的时候
@@江楚门 有道理！
Good to have both Europe and China represented in the discussions. Refreshing and informative, I can see them working well together for a more peaceful and better world.
I find the Chinese to often speak with great wisdom in these discussions. Maybe it’s window dressing but it works on me 😅
Well done, Eric! Very calm, sharp in expressing the views!
谢谢观视频提供这么好的资源！希望看到的人们能不只局限在狭小的个人见解和喜好中，以开放的心胸去享受来自不同世界的思想和见解，其中有几位学者的发言让我深受启发，希望人类世界能多一些思想交锋与交融的聚会，少一些焦虑，迷茫，单调，狭隘和痛苦🙏
李世默的逻辑和观点令人叹服啊，真厉害！
Eric Li is so calm and very knowledgeable on world history.
水平太高了，李世默，句句鞭辟入里，一针见血。他讲的都是更加本质的东西。
这个才是谈笑风生，是舌战群儒现代真实加强版。
感谢翻译，很高兴可以看到这样的视频
The foundation of democracy is the election process. And that’s the problem, the election process has become a gladiator fight, while the candidate just focus on attacking the opponent to win the election. The process has become more and more vicious, mean and dirty with almost no limit in sight. So no matter how dirty the candidate employed, as long as he or she wins, it becomes legitimate, and the citizens forgive what this person has done. In addition, campaign needs enormous amount of money, so it’s controlled by the special interest groups eventually, so matter who wins. So the policy is set to help these special interest groups to make more more, and that could including staring wars against other countries. Furthermore, presidents office can be held by different persons, but the problems with democracy never get fixed.
Nexus还是一个比较好的平台容许中国人的观点发出声来，尽管有很多专家还是有很多偏见，但最少他们还是尽量平和客观，还是能听进不同的意见的。这是一个值得我们尊敬的平台。希望中国人能有更多的学者被邀请被围攻，这样才能创造出思想的火花，也会是我们更了解世界，看看别人在怎么想
In view of pandemic, the arguments in this discussion were a total waste of time. Nature will choose the society which can best organize themselves - the group of peoples who can deliver the maximum capability to deal with nature. The rest will be obsolete after more challenges from nature.
1. This discussion is before the pandemic, right? 2. China has already controlled the situation. Face the fact. 3. If you don't want to discuss about the good system, good governance, you will face more and more crisis in the future.
向李世默教授致敬！在如此恶劣的环境下（除了主持人和李教授，其余6个人中至少两个敌人 ，美国和他的走狗 加拿大）依然有理有据的向世界阐述了自己的理念，这也是绝大多数中国人的 理念。现在的中国人真的越来越自信了。我是中国人，我自豪！❤️🇨🇳
加拿大，澳洲，两只狗
已經有兩個美國人了裡面。
我觉得还是不能以偏概全，毕竟加拿大和澳洲也有很多客观的人，而且我认为这个conference里美国和加拿大嘉宾还是比较客观地指出了他们的问题，包括美国发动的战争等。
我觉得有的加拿大挺客观的你狭隘了
Ying Dong 你真逗，你是加拿大的香蕉人吧。因为有客观的加拿大人 所以就说不得那些做为主流的不客观的加拿大人和政府吗？！你咋不说有的美国人也很客观呢？
麻烦你给我解释一下扣留孟晚舟两年了，却拿不出有效证据的加拿大吧。如果主流是客观的，在民主的加拿大会发生这样的事情吗？
明显比张维为那场尊重中国的多了，这还是疫情之前
這是是19年的視頻嗎？
张就是背书的
@@rabbitwenger 就算背書也是原創，不是拷貝！
两位学者都很捧，没有比较性。
张那场发挥的水平差了点 一直说中国的好话 人家西方人心里不舒服😂
很精彩的视频，感谢官网。除了佩服eric的思想和谈吐之外，最大的收获是德国人和阿富汗女士的发言，让我了解到美国及其盟友之外，其他人的想法和关注点。
所有论述都是为了衬托李世默先生而设的。同意举手
你这样跟西方的无知傲慢有什么区别。有几个人得讨论是很有深度的。比如有个说70年代后政治道德消失了，现在需要重建政治道德，是很有大爱，格局很大的vision，没有任何指责和推卸责任，而是在试图寻找solution。
@@minzhang8807 呵呵，强盗谈政治道德
@@fenglei6522 夷狄者，畏威而不怀德，古人诚不欺我
@@minzhang8807 其他学者除了葡萄牙和牛津那位说了实质性的话，其他人哪个不是避重就轻，老实讲就是说了些场面话，大实话他也不好说，也不敢说
某种程度来看，西方学术界愿意听到更多的来自中国的声音，能感到他们充满了好奇心，相比几年前的论坛，没有那么傲慢了
Yeah, right, how free hong kong is, criminals discriminating against and beating the mainland Chinese never get punished
Tongling ruclips.net/video/SHOi7XwUjMs/видео.html
不能再犯 军队与人命对立的错误操作, 虽然之前应对64 事实上没有死很多人, 但是确实这个事情处理的很糟糕, 这次香港就是当年的64, 一样的套路一样的说辞
@@damonyu2999 不一样的是64是一群爱国的学生被利用
@@ngapweitham8434 都是学生群里掺杂了目的性强且非自由民主, 64里面有台湾的人
圈圈义 我当年在读高三，从电视里看到大学生在人民广场建那个丑陋的自由女神像，完全看不到他们所谓的向往民主自由。看到的是邯郸学步或者东施效颦。追求民主自由没有错，错的是没有自己的思想，而只是抄袭别国或者盲目效仿别国。做为一个即将走出家门的高中生，一个边远的小城学生，没有近距离观看，只是从新闻和电视屏幕上看，我的感觉就是一帮被纵容被唆使的孩子在乱搞。纵容和嗦使来自内外的势力让他们尽量搞大事。如果说他们后面没有人支持，指导他们一步步的升级行动，那不可能。这其中那些学生自己也因为有背后支撑和承诺，好的智商都被调动起来极尽可能地表现。
惡霸怕被霸凌。
Bullies are afraid of being bullied.
蠢货怕被揭穿
Fools are afraid of being exposed
Didn't you know CCP has been acting like the bully in the school? Very immature.
Well Said and Support to Eric Li ! Bravo to China Rise Peacefully and be Strong !
感谢观视频，终于可以看到完整版了
It's a good discussion and at least the West is a bit more open minded to China's System. However, we still have a long way to go in effectively telling the "Story of China".
Thank you to GUAN.
一年之内 被新冠打脸打的 啧啧 不管是吹嘘欧洲有韧性的那个 强调人权的那个 还是自说自顾个人主义自由主义至上的那个 都被打了脸
何当当不挂科 我也是这么想的！欧洲这次心哇凉哇凉的…
@QI Luo 谁呀
@@ChengCheng 我很想知道今年还有没有这个会 今年他们会说啥😹
看到的时候我也是这么想的，脸他娘的都肿了
他们会说自由比生命更重要，甚至不在乎其他人的安全。
特别棒。中国越来越强大， 越来越自信， 也给世界的发展提供其它选择。但是我们也要看到，我们也是在一个规定区域内艰难前行。比如设计国家领导人我们下意识的避讳，比如涉及到领土争端，我们也下意识避开不谈。西方民主不是唯一的道路，我们的道路自然也有我们的不足，考虑如何改进，如何创新，才是我们的唯一出路。