The fact that she can counter Killjoy setups on Haven, a map Killjoy has always been meta on, is a testament to how powerful Viper is. She's managed to shift the meta of Ascent and now Haven. On the bright side, does this mean more Cypher? We've seen Fnatic counter some Viper lurk shenanigans through Alfajer's setups on Split and Bind, could it work for Ascent and Haven?
11.1% is meta? Also you dont play an age t just so you can disable 1 single ability like kayo knife can disable a whole team and he still aint getting much play
@@rev0live752 If you think Viper consists of 1 single ability and that Kayo's suppress should automatically make him a popular pick... I don't really know what to tell you
@@whereami. i dont think so i was just applying your logic to disprove it and now that you sayed that doesnt make sense you proved my point which disproves yours
i don’t think she’s shifted the meta of ascent personally, a couple of games in t2 aren’t enough to go off of, even if she is played teams like team liquid that run cypher on ascent will shut her down instantly w the unbreakable trips and cams. i don’t think cypher could become meta on haven either because of how sova is picked, you could probably get away with a couple games of cypher before teams start anti stratting and using shock darts to kill the trips
I'm surprised we aren't seeing more cypher with viper being so prevalent. both have really strong defensive util that can be used in an almost equally-as-strong way on attack by denying LOS and safely taking aggressive angles. not even mentioning the newfound synergy between the two with cypher's trips not breaking on trigger.
I actually agree with you coming from someone who has played in killjoy in rank in Haven and I can say when I play killjoy sometimes her utility doesn’t have a major impact except when they hit the site
OK well what if we made viper's wall a 2 charge one-time-use ability that does not replenish similar to brim smoke? It's not going to hurt her preround but will definitely take away her strength as the round progresses
cypher default ideas are kinda weird its either like short cam and smoke cross or mid cam but mid cam gets broken extremely easily and a cam isnt that great of a way to take short
neon having to run thru a viper wall is scary realistically you should just mirror the viper but play a cypher or second initiator over kj (also raze>jett but that’s not cuz of viper) if ur worried abt a lack of info without a sentinel you can play fade with the raze ig
@@DEVILONBOTHSHOULDERS the kayo knife is the perfect counter for viper, both attack and defense, on defense let u counter the A wall of u throw it and use that window with neon to fight for A main, the skye is a must in this meta and my playing a faster comp you counter the slow playstyle that the viper comp have, just play around A with the hard execute and aggressive utilities or around mid, if the kayo get the kj and viper ofc u can try and exec or just wait to have the kayo ult and force them to play retake, 4 flashes also counter the viper and harbor since you can just flash out, when they try to retake A in defense you can just knife to turn off the viper smoke or flash out, neon stun are great too to waste time while they use the viper wall or orb during a retake
@@esc0w0 early tside kayo knife will work for 1 round and then viper will just play further back on retakes it’s good fs but u also gotta consider what u lose by not playing the viper itself maybe u can play both tho
I know it has nothing to do with the video but the Furia clip, it kills me every time the announcer says “sh sh sh SILÊNCIO!” Hahahaha that shit goes so hard
the difference between on the box, in front of garage, and outside the window on B is that there's always one to two players on B. They can swing and destroy it which won't really give you the same info. From the garage you can think that they either swung out garage, or are pushing out of B. If they're pushing out of B then it's a lot different than if they're just swinging out B. The vital info is whether they're pushing out. But to your point, it could discourage them pushing out immediately afterwards. (I copied and pasted from an earlier comment I read that said the same thing about the turret.)
the difference between on the box, in front of garage, and outside the window on B is that there's always one to two players on B. They can swing and destroy it which won't really give you the same info. From the garage you can think that they either swung out garage, or are pushing out of B. If they're pushing out of B then it's a lot different than if they're just swinging out B. The vital info is whether they're pushing out. But to your point, it could discourage them pushing out immediately afterwards.
And they called me a madman whenever I mained Viper on all maps. Will never forget the moment I shut up the Reina after he told me that Viper sucks on Haven. Sadly, now that Viper has proven to be meta in most if not all maps, she will probably get nerfed a lot. Lucky for me, I moved to CS lol.
me when cypher main
grrr i was second you take me first you
@@AntechamberAEomen not meta
@@AntechamberAE jk
The fact that she can counter Killjoy setups on Haven, a map Killjoy has always been meta on, is a testament to how powerful Viper is. She's managed to shift the meta of Ascent and now Haven.
On the bright side, does this mean more Cypher? We've seen Fnatic counter some Viper lurk shenanigans through Alfajer's setups on Split and Bind, could it work for Ascent and Haven?
11.1% is meta? Also you dont play an age t just so you can disable 1 single ability like kayo knife can disable a whole team and he still aint getting much play
@@rev0live752
If you think Viper consists of 1 single ability and that Kayo's suppress should automatically make him a popular pick... I don't really know what to tell you
@@whereami. i dont think so i was just applying your logic to disprove it and now that you sayed that doesnt make sense you proved my point which disproves yours
@@rev0live752"I have outsmarted your outsmarting."
But both are outsmarting
i don’t think she’s shifted the meta of ascent personally, a couple of games in t2 aren’t enough to go off of, even if she is played teams like team liquid that run cypher on ascent will shut her down instantly w the unbreakable trips and cams. i don’t think cypher could become meta on haven either because of how sova is picked, you could probably get away with a couple games of cypher before teams start anti stratting and using shock darts to kill the trips
honestly, i like not seeing as much kj but sad that in return we have to see more viper
This summarizes my feelings perfectly.
at least we won’t see harbor viper in comp because nobody plays him
Harbor is way more viable than people give him credit for IMO@@solarrxenon
@@solarrxenonI don’t see him much in comp but I’m premier I see him decently often along with a viper most of the time.
ye@@solarrxenon
I'm surprised we aren't seeing more cypher with viper being so prevalent. both have really strong defensive util that can be used in an almost equally-as-strong way on attack by denying LOS and safely taking aggressive angles. not even mentioning the newfound synergy between the two with cypher's trips not breaking on trigger.
TMV really be thinkin. Really good video. I'd love longer versions too with more examples and clips!!
honestly this viper meta has really made haven a lot more fun to watch as teams are experimenting
we don’t talk about 40% of the round reverted back to 2021 baiting out util before executing
I actually agree with you coming from someone who has played in killjoy in rank in Haven and I can say when I play killjoy sometimes her utility doesn’t have a major impact except when they hit the site
Best tmv vid in a while for me. Such good content
I want chamber to be back on this map again. Ah RIP deveeys, KRU played with Chamber pretty well on this map
Yeah, I miss his gameplay 😢
the world keeps taking amazing people from us :(
OK well what if we made viper's wall a 2 charge one-time-use ability that does not replenish similar to brim smoke? It's not going to hurt her preround but will definitely take away her strength as the round progresses
I mean just use the chicken for c no? And put alarm near garage now you have a kj who watch mid, and can come if the team pushing a?
cypher default ideas are kinda weird its either like short cam and smoke cross or mid cam but mid cam gets broken extremely easily and a cam isnt that great of a way to take short
do you think we will see maybe another type of comp like the old optic? with kayo neon and astra to coutner viper?
neon having to run thru a viper wall is scary
realistically you should just mirror the viper but play a cypher or second initiator over kj (also raze>jett but that’s not cuz of viper)
if ur worried abt a lack of info without a sentinel you can play fade with the raze ig
@@DEVILONBOTHSHOULDERS the kayo knife is the perfect counter for viper, both attack and defense, on defense let u counter the A wall of u throw it and use that window with neon to fight for A main, the skye is a must in this meta and my playing a faster comp you counter the slow playstyle that the viper comp have, just play around A with the hard execute and aggressive utilities or around mid, if the kayo get the kj and viper ofc u can try and exec or just wait to have the kayo ult and force them to play retake, 4 flashes also counter the viper and harbor since you can just flash out, when they try to retake A in defense you can just knife to turn off the viper smoke or flash out, neon stun are great too to waste time while they use the viper wall or orb during a retake
@@esc0w0 early tside kayo knife will work for 1 round and then viper will just play further back
on retakes it’s good fs but u also gotta consider what u lose by not playing the viper itself
maybe u can play both tho
I knew that Cypher gonna be replacing KJ after the viper meta.
Only problem is cypher doesn’t mesh well with double controller I feel like u either play cypher breach or viper KJ
i've always played Killjoy on Haven and I have indeed been noticing that she isn't as effective as before during my comp plays
I know it has nothing to do with the video but the Furia clip, it kills me every time the announcer says “sh sh sh SILÊNCIO!” Hahahaha that shit goes so hard
why not place kj on c garage and b for info and delay, make awper anchor on C and heavy stack A while defending
Because A is easier to take during a retake. Delaying A is extremely hard.
I love viper so much. Double controller on top
Wait.... this is a reupload
i think kayo is gonna have to make a comeback on haven
TMV, I'mma need you to calm down with the bold claims on Viper. Riot is gonna hear you and nerf her more! 😭
good thing this wont be a problem on my gold-plat lobbies haha.
no one plays viper haven in apac. let alone double controller
pls don’t tell me this ThinkingMan i’m having a hard enough time having to play cypher on 4/7 maps right now i just want to play killjoy PLEASE
every agent is still viable to use, tmv videos are mostly on pro plays (but some videos still can help u in ur ranked plays)
12:21 for anyone who needs it!
put the kj turret mid window at the start
And then once more you are tied to staying mid with a turret that you don't even have to be pushing to easily destroy
the difference between on the box, in front of garage, and outside the window on B is that there's always one to two players on B. They can swing and destroy it which won't really give you the same info. From the garage you can think that they either swung out garage, or are pushing out of B. If they're pushing out of B then it's a lot different than if they're just swinging out B. The vital info is whether they're pushing out. But to your point, it could discourage them pushing out immediately afterwards. (I copied and pasted from an earlier comment I read that said the same thing about the turret.)
If you place the kj on the ground infront of the box where it normaly stands, it should fixed the problem with the wall
the difference between on the box, in front of garage, and outside the window on B is that there's always one to two players on B. They can swing and destroy it which won't really give you the same info. From the garage you can think that they either swung out garage, or are pushing out of B. If they're pushing out of B then it's a lot different than if they're just swinging out B. The vital info is whether they're pushing out. But to your point, it could discourage them pushing out immediately afterwards.
And they called me a madman whenever I mained Viper on all maps. Will never forget the moment I shut up the Reina after he told me that Viper sucks on Haven. Sadly, now that Viper has proven to be meta in most if not all maps, she will probably get nerfed a lot.
Lucky for me, I moved to CS lol.
meta in pro play, not very useful in ranked where people don’t respect utility
That’s what I’m saying, I don’t play KJ on Haven a lot, I’m a cypher player and viper player.
MAYBE THINKING VALORANT MYABE that killjoy fight that’s Jett 1v1. That’s when the fps aspect comes in
Cypher mains eating good baby lets fucking go
Haven really needs to get out of the map pool, it’s way too difficult to play these days
here early, gonna guess cypher is a must pick now
Viper: "Nah, I'll win"
KJ isnt horrible on the map shes just getting countered. In Comp she’s still really good
He says that towards the end that this only applies at the highest level
But if u are kj u shud nt attack need to hold bak bt in pro matches they attack n die
Viper IS THE META
easy counter to every setup is kayo
At my rank, with my KJ playstyle, she is fantastic on haven. Say what you will about plat elo lol
summary: Viper is VERY strong on Haven
KID AVENGERS
Me switching over from cypher to Kj and doing insane: 👁️ 👄 👁️
This is for pro play you’re in low elo
Oh Daniel, did mother not allow u to have a biscuit!! I would be angry too but u can get through this
@@danielfu1484 yeah sadly I’m immortal only 😢
most teams dont even play viper on haven, stop trying to get riot to nerf my main agent bro lmao