Interesting remark about the deposition of “crud” being towards the outer edge of the rail head. An electrical arc will “run away” from the source, driven by the interaction between the magnetic fields of the main conducting path (between wheel and rail) and the arc itself (the arc is a conductive path made up of the metal plasma being evaporated from the contact surfaces of wheel and rail, and ionised gases). The wheels are conical, and as the arc runs from the contact point at the inner edge of the rail head towards the out edge, it lengthens due to the angle between tyre and rail head, increasing the resistance of the arc until the voltage across it can no longer sustain the arcing, and it extinguishes. In DC, there are no zero-crossings in the current wave form, which is typically where the arc will extinguish (no energy to drive it), so DC arcs burn longer than AC ones. DCC is effectively an AC waveform (square wave) so it may be expected that the arcing is less severe. Great video - I will be switching to contact cleaner from IPA forthwith!
Don't know how I missed this vid. Great discussion and gotta love the microscope views. That other video showing track rubber effects convinced me to buy a track rubber after thinking I'd never use them. Anyway my little input to the track cleaning debate - I laid new track in late 2018, no dramas for a few months until the stuttering began. I used IPA, thinners and acetone and the problem was just getting worse whereby things ran one day then not the next. It was doing my head in. Then I came across an old video by monon1971 that seemed to be to good to be true. He used very small dabs of Auto Trans Fluid that the trains' wheels would distribute around the layout. I tried the same and it was a game changer for me. You wouldn't think a non-conductive oily film would work but it does and didn't seem to affect traction on my inclines if used sparingly as advised. Then that fascinating MRH article came out which showed ATF as semi-polar, so not the best but the WD40 contact cleaner is non-polar and near the top of the list. I haven't changed yet because I haven't needed to so forgot about the article but will have to give it a go after this discussion and leave the ATF for the car.
Thanks for a landmark video with some scientific basis and testing. Some other vids advising other methods just boil down to the users opinion of what works well for them without any demonstration that they have properly evaluated alternatives. The recent comments on the use of lighter fluid raises the not often discussed fire hazard and the need for a fire extinguisher to protect our valuable assets. Not just the models but the home and most importantly our health and lives. Undetected invisible alcohol fires are dangerous and can lead to very detectable fires quickly. Another reason not to use IPA perhaps. Just my opinions that may be wrong.
Hi John, thank you indeed for the high praise. Yes we put a lot of work into the background of this and with Tony's scientific background and previous research we now feel confidant to bring this to the public. You are exactly right about the fire hazard and I do mention this. I think all fluids used 'that work' have a significant fire risk and one has to trust to the good sense of the user to some degree. Maybe someone would like to make a fire risk video as a warning?
I use the lighter fluid as it's cheap to buy but still find cleaning the track a chore so I now use the old triang one with the felt strip buy very cheap and works well
Many thanks Mike, you've convinced me to try wd40 contact cleaner for an extended period..well until I run out at least. I'll let you know how I go. Love the science bit, thanks again, Kevin
Very interesting indeed! I will be giving the contact cleaner a go. I have cleaned my track with IPA and very shortly after the dirt on the track has seemed to built up very quickly. Let you know. A great collaboration that benefits the model railway community - thank you both!
Thanks so much indeed. I've stuck with this method ever since and honestly I think it's better. IPA still gets used during servicing etc but not on the track. Be great to hear your thoughts
Great to see a discussion based on real findings (ie the microscope views) rather than just pure theory. I'll be looking for a non-polar liquid to fill up my CMX.
Many thanks, yes that is why it took us some time to bring this out, good luck with your search. Maybe let us know what you settle on? Do CMX make their own?
I used to use IPA, now I have been using CRC 2.26. This appears to be similar to Tony's CRC Contact Cleaner. By the way, IPA is great for weathering and thinning acrylic paints, but that's about it. Cheers, Gary.
While silver readily corrodes in the atmosphere, I always suspected the track "dust" was corrosion also caused by micro-arcing and decided to try CRC-2.26. It is a commercially used ELECTRICAL CONTACT CLEANER, CONDUCTIVE LUBRICANT AND ANTI-CORROSIVE IN ONE. The results I get from CRC 2-26 make it hard for me to try anything else. According to what I've read, aside from the CRC's conductive properties reducing buildup, it also tends to make the oxidized material more conductive. Using IPA should be avoided because it will remove CRC's protective coating.
All good points, I looked at a few other chemicals before settling on my two, the reason I avoided others like Deoxit was the added lube which will reduce traction. Do you find that?
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited No. It's a dry lube. You apply the CRC and let it dry for 24 hours. Then run the trains. I'd be interested if you try it. Thanks for the informative vid. Edit: the dry lube is a protective coat. It probably actually lubricates at pressures far beyond what our toys exert, as found in large electrical contacts, e.g. mains and beyond. This is from memory of reading product papers.
I agree with oxidation from arcing. This is made far worse with the use of older resistance type controllers (like Triang/ HM clipper/ pre 1980 hornby) than it is with electronic controllers.
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited . I might run Coreless motors in future . Got a Rails/ Bachmann. Caledonian 812 and LMS Precursor on order . The Precursor certainly has coreless motor the 812 probably will have . So I reckoned I’d see what it was like without the track cleaners . I think modern rail and wheel interaction is a lot better than back in the 70s . The rails don’t seem to need as much cleaning . I’m not sure if it’s down to that or the relatively dry atmosphere in the loft . But your video good . I know now to get WD40 contact cleaner .
@@russellbenton2987 Hi Russell, oh yeah I am at the point of switching mine off but am always scared I'll forget and run a coreless on them. WD40 Contact Cleaner is very very good, but not the full picture, I still stand by my older cleaning video but don't use IPA, so the old track rubber is still needed occasionally!
Hi Mike appreciate the video after I watched the video I went researching to see if I was doing it right. I have always used ipa for engine motor and wheel cleaning and white spirit for track cleaning through cmx wagon and have had good running . I found the white spirit is non polar and evaporates quickly and as you say I never run traction tyre locomotives after until I am 100% happy it’s right once again thanks for the video darryl
I have researched this to death also, the MRH article is very good and both it and you, are on the right track, but you have only discussed one part of the ultimate "maintenance" regime! It needs to be a 3 part regime, of which polar cleaning is the second element. I would love to make a definitive video on the subject, but I don't have a runnable layout, so cannot prove it! I won't stick my neck out on something I can't prove, although all the science it is based on would back it up, practical proof, as evidence is needed.
after watching both videos i have changed to a non polar solvent (lighter fluid) did a thorough clean of all wheels and track today will let you know how i get on
That track cleaning stick you make mention of, how good is that over points? I have a extensive layout running all through my house with lots of pointwork to deal with, and also running to one side of the kitchen, so I'm looking for an effective way to keep my track clean. Also, what is the best way to clean wheels on modern locos? (Taking into account all wheel pick-up, all wheel drive). Thanks for an informative video!
Good morning, thanks very much for the kind words. The Tidy track comes with two types of pads, white and dark grey. The darker ones are more course and can at times catch a little bit over points. Personally I use the dark pad at the front with the Contact Cleaner on and the white pad at the back to wipe up and polish all in one move. I'd certainly recommend it. The best way to clean wheels is with a good service cradle, cotton buds dipped in Contact Cleaner, all you need do it bring power to the wheels. I use small crocodile clips, this lets you clip on to any trailing wheels that have pick up or they can be held lightly against the driving wheels. Select a low to mid speed on the controller and remember to do the backs of the wheels also. Let me know how you get on?
Brilliant and fascinating video. I've always used lighter fluid only for cleaning and servicing. I had my suspicions about it damaging railway sleepers as I noticed sleepers becoming brittle and breaking in very isolated incidents. Initially I suspected a bad batch of plastic from hornby, the same problem then occurred where the track was from a different manufacturer which suggested something else was happening, I'm still unsure if lighter fluid caused the damage, your video suggests that it wasn't. Now I'm mystified.
Hi Christian, when I read your comment I just checked the sample of sleepers immersed in the fluid and its all still fine. Did you ever use Track Magic? or IPA? I've seen the same issues. So glad you enjoyed the video.
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited That's it!! I had forgotten that I used Track Magic once out of curiosity, and once only as I didn't see any advantage over lighter fluid. Did you observe sleeper damage due to Track Magic? If that's the case they really should revise what they are charging good money for.
@@rinnmhor Hi, yes sadly I did, I tested two bottles of it thinking of doing a video on it but found that my locos lost traction, the cost was massive and then started to see the same sleeper damage you report, I can not say for certain that it caused it but since stopping it, no more damage, also they say themselves to avoid getting it on sleepers, I would guess that it is very much a polar solvent????
Thank You for all this information and testing. I am wondering if this science is applicable to cleaning and keeping clean motor commutators and brushes?
Hi Ian, I'd absolutely say yes, I've switched to lighter fuel for that very job, if you look at my class 37 restore you can see it in action. Thanks for watching
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited Thank You much! I wonder if it would be an ok cleaner to use with a CMX track cleaning car? Also what’s a good way to clean lock and rolling stock wheels? I’ve just used track cleaner on a paper towel and run the speed up on the loco and let the wheels spin on the towel. Is that a good method to use with the Wd-49 contact cleaner? Again,Thank You!
@@rustyc521 personally I'd be inclined to say no as it can be a little greasy. Might be worth trying a small section. Don't let it get on paint. Loco and stock wheels is the big question lol. The honest best answer is to put the loco or stock in a service cradle and use cotton buds (Q tips) and lighter fuel. I admit I still use IPA on plastic wheels
@ModelRailwaysUnlimited Wow! What a difference after using the WD-40 contact cleaner on the Tidy Track white pads! A big difference in how well it cleans! Now this is after I’ve already cleaned the track with Mineral Spirits using the same method! The contact cleaner did indeed clean better than just the mineral spirits! I’ll now be a consistent user of the WD-40 Contact Cleaner! But boy it does evaporate quickly! Thank You for a great video and educating me on cleaning track using the non polar contact cleaner! Now onto cleaning wheel sets!
Hello want to thank you both ordered two cans this morning and wow how good is this brilliant I didnt realise how bad my track was so I'll now have a day working on my track cleaning skills lol
Thanks for the science lesson. I do already have some WD40 Contact Cleaner for switch cleaning but have not tried it on my track as I didn't know whether it would be safe to use for that. I will certainly be trying it from now on. What are your thoughts on stuff like INOX that I've seen used here on RUclips.
Hi Rob, many thanks and good luck with it. Regarding Inox, I seem to recall it comes with a lubricant so I dismissed it as that would be unhelpful for traction.
Thanks Mike and Tony for this excellent information. I had been using IPA for years and often wondered why black gunge on the rails and wheels kept re-appearing so quickly and so often! So your explanation of the science was very interesting. I'm off to Screwfix later to collect a tin of WD40 Contact Cleaner. Thanks again guys. Vivian.
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited Hi Mike and Tony. Sorry I took so long to get back to you. I did use the WD40 Contact Cleaner and it made a dramatic improvement to the rails. No more black residue after running sessions! I do still have a couple of older Lima DMUs with the dreaded traction tyres and they still create and spread a bit of muck, but I hope to re wheel those with metal ones in due course. All my locos and rolling stock have metal wheels. So all in all, great results. Many thanks to you both. I have placed a link of your useful videos on RMweb. Best regards, Vivian.
@@cravensdmufan4449 Hi Vivian, that is great news indeed thanks so much for giving it a proper test and for the RMweb link. I have found that direct cleaning the old Lima wheels with the cleaner does improve things over time. Take care, Mike
Thanks guys for making us all aware regarding IPA and non polar chemicals, knew nothing about it, absolutely fascinating. Video was certainly not long when you are discussing matters of this interest. I will eventually purchase a CMX track cleaner as I have read so many good things about it, but instead of using IPA I was thinking now of using lighter fuel. Do you think it will work? Regards Chris
Smelly does not bother me and the smell would not be there for long I hope. Have just read the CMX pamphlet and they dont seem to recommend anything. They give lots of hints as to what you can use but they have attached a chemists report who is also a model railroader and he recommends lacquer thinner! Regards Chris
@@Chris-BognorRegis Those thinners are/were a mix of polar and non polar solvents, as such not really what you want, I think they might have a bit of an aggressive tendency towards plastics as well. Maybe the lighter fuel is best?
@@Chris-BognorRegis Cheers Chris, should be good, can I suggest only putting in what is required, 1 for safety and 2 to save waste as it does evaporate quickly!
Hi Phillip, well 'as needed' is the only answer I can give, I went from cleaning before every video with IPA to only having to clean twice a month now, so its had a big effect. If you can treat all your tracks and wheels in one go you should find it all stays clean for ages, maybe let us know?
Hi, thanks for the question. The answer is both! Use the rubber gently on the odd occasion you might notice a big build up or bit of corrosion, use the Non Polar fluid for normal track cleaning. Check out my previous track cleaning video to see how to use the rubber, but note I no longer recommend IPA for track cleaning.
As someone who's not long returned to the hobby this is great and makes perfect sense to me anyway, I've been seeing IPA advised a lot (and I use it for certain model paints as I usually do 1/35 armour) but I wasn't sure having cleaned up some old and rough wheels with it which dirtied again very quickly. I've got lighter fluid here (also useful for some paints) and will try that till I pick up some contact cleaner and compare. Thanks for the informative vid 👍
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited cheers and no worries though I can tell you now that I've just done the track with a polishing cloth dampened with lighter fluid around a small block and although not filthy I was surprised at what came off and the layout is only at the wiring and testing stage with a couple of locos ran up and down for testing, one of the locos is the rough wheels offender, an old Mainline 03, and both track and wheels had previously been done with IPA... It all makes sense given the dark spots of crud I've noticed developing quickly on those wheels.
@@shb8124 Hi Stuart, how interesting, like you say it all stacks up. I featured my Mainline 03 recently, still runs :) ruclips.net/video/Okn8hFL69z0/видео.html
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited nice one, seems to be running pretty well some of them seem to be dogs. I was gifted this one and it was pretty seized up but I've got it running almost spot on now, it'll be perfect for my plan and era and with the tiny wheelbase it's great for testing trackwork, fingers crossed replacement axles from Peter's will help too. I'm not sure if anyone does replacement wheels though which is a shame 🤔
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited just to let you know that while work on both the layout and the 03 renovation have been continuing daily (so many tiny issues in the 03 but it's *almost* crawling along at a scale walking pace smoothly) I've noticed a dramatic drop in the amount of black crud it's rather rough wheels seem to generate since using the lighter fluid rather than IPA. Obviously longer term testing will show more but given the apparant shortage and price of pharmaceutical grade IPA lately I'll be saving what I have for other things and sticking to the lighter fluid for now at least 👍
Very interesting video. Now i'm wondering whether the type of operation would increase/decrease oxidisation. DCC puts a higher current > 16v into the circuit . DC only >12v. It seems logical to me the greater the voltage input to the track the greater the opportunity for arching. However I would be the first to admit I have little understanding of electrics. Discuss. Be interested to hear peoples thoughts or explanations.
That's hard to judge, because DCC runs a constant 16V pseudo AC, whilst analogue (DC) is very rarely run flat-out at 12v, probably no more than 6v, as we are playing trains, not Scalex racing!
Hi Gordon, yes interesting point. I would assume that the current drawn by a loco under dcc is similar to one on DC unless all the lights and sounds count for more. One to watch for sure
I use Zippos so have always cleaned my track with lighter fuel! Seriously though, lighter fuel can be obtained in all the ‘pound’ style stores and is quite cost effective.
I don't use liquid cleaners at all, just the pimply side of offcuts of hardboard. It's a shame you didn't do before and after microscope views of the track, though.
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited I'm not too sure to be honest, I saw it being recommended on a couple channels, think I'll get some of the WD40 what you've used also,
Being largely ignorant of things model railway. Your photo show what looks to me to be spark erosion. One thing I can say. There is a machining technique called spark erosion( also EBM). Used to shape very hard metals. This basically repeatedly makes circuit and breaks circuit. Current is concentrated in small contact area and the metal is 'burnt' away... The process takes place under a DILECTRIC , often oil. The process does not need atmospheric oxygen the oil is in part to flush the tiny grains( balls) of metal away... The process in your application is made happen by the not quite circular wheels , not quite flat track, and any source of vibration in the system the make break make etc. situation ,will make the hole thing into a machine to erode your track/wheels.
Thanks for collaborating on this Mike, it was great fun and nice to work through the science.
Any time!
Interesting remark about the deposition of “crud” being towards the outer edge of the rail head.
An electrical arc will “run away” from the source, driven by the interaction between the magnetic fields of the main conducting path (between wheel and rail) and the arc itself (the arc is a conductive path made up of the metal plasma being evaporated from the contact surfaces of wheel and rail, and ionised gases).
The wheels are conical, and as the arc runs from the contact point at the inner edge of the rail head towards the out edge, it lengthens due to the angle between tyre and rail head, increasing the resistance of the arc until the voltage across it can no longer sustain the arcing, and it extinguishes.
In DC, there are no zero-crossings in the current wave form, which is typically where the arc will extinguish (no energy to drive it), so DC arcs burn longer than AC ones. DCC is effectively an AC waveform (square wave) so it may be expected that the arcing is less severe.
Great video - I will be switching to contact cleaner from IPA forthwith!
Thanks very much indeed and for the great extra info, let me know how you get on once you switch.
Don't know how I missed this vid. Great discussion and gotta love the microscope views. That other video showing track rubber effects convinced me to buy a track rubber after thinking I'd never use them. Anyway my little input to the track cleaning debate - I laid new track in late 2018, no dramas for a few months until the stuttering began. I used IPA, thinners and acetone and the problem was just getting worse whereby things ran one day then not the next. It was doing my head in. Then I came across an old video by monon1971 that seemed to be to good to be true. He used very small dabs of Auto Trans Fluid that the trains' wheels would distribute around the layout. I tried the same and it was a game changer for me. You wouldn't think a non-conductive oily film would work but it does and didn't seem to affect traction on my inclines if used sparingly as advised. Then that fascinating MRH article came out which showed ATF as semi-polar, so not the best but the WD40 contact cleaner is non-polar and near the top of the list. I haven't changed yet because I haven't needed to so forgot about the article but will have to give it a go after this discussion and leave the ATF for the car.
Hi thanks very much, yes this video seems to be overlooked don't know why. I have now swapped onto the Ronsolol lighter fuel as its easier to control.
Thanks for a landmark video with some scientific basis and testing.
Some other vids advising other methods just boil down to the users opinion of what works well for them without any demonstration that they have properly evaluated alternatives.
The recent comments on the use of lighter fluid raises the not often discussed fire hazard and the need for a fire extinguisher to protect our valuable assets. Not just the models but the home and most importantly our health and lives.
Undetected invisible alcohol fires are dangerous and can lead to very detectable fires quickly. Another reason not to use IPA perhaps.
Just my opinions that may be wrong.
Hi John, thank you indeed for the high praise. Yes we put a lot of work into the background of this and with Tony's scientific background and previous research we now feel confidant to bring this to the public. You are exactly right about the fire hazard and I do mention this. I think all fluids used 'that work' have a significant fire risk and one has to trust to the good sense of the user to some degree. Maybe someone would like to make a fire risk video as a warning?
I use the lighter fluid as it's cheap to buy but still find cleaning the track a chore so I now use the old triang one with the felt strip buy very cheap and works well
Hi Ashly, glad its working for you
Many thanks Mike, you've convinced me to try wd40 contact cleaner for an extended period..well until I run out at least. I'll let you know how I go. Love the science bit, thanks again, Kevin
Hi Kevin, many thanks, let me know how you get on?
Very interesting indeed! I will be giving the contact cleaner a go. I have cleaned my track with IPA and very shortly after the dirt on the track has seemed to built up very quickly. Let you know. A great collaboration that benefits the model railway community - thank you both!
Thanks so much indeed. I've stuck with this method ever since and honestly I think it's better. IPA still gets used during servicing etc but not on the track. Be great to hear your thoughts
Extremely interesting and informative video, just purchased WD-40 contact cleaner...Simon
Glad it helped, let me know how you get on
Great to see a discussion based on real findings (ie the microscope views) rather than just pure theory. I'll be looking for a non-polar liquid to fill up my CMX.
Many thanks, yes that is why it took us some time to bring this out, good luck with your search. Maybe let us know what you settle on? Do CMX make their own?
I used to use IPA, now I have been using CRC 2.26. This appears to be similar to Tony's CRC Contact Cleaner. By the way, IPA is great for weathering and thinning acrylic paints, but that's about it.
Cheers, Gary.
While silver readily corrodes in the atmosphere, I always suspected the track "dust" was corrosion also caused by micro-arcing and decided to try CRC-2.26. It is a commercially used ELECTRICAL CONTACT CLEANER, CONDUCTIVE LUBRICANT AND ANTI-CORROSIVE IN ONE. The results I get from CRC 2-26 make it hard for me to try anything else. According to what I've read, aside from the CRC's conductive properties reducing buildup, it also tends to make the oxidized material more conductive. Using IPA should be avoided because it will remove CRC's protective coating.
Aha cheers Gary, good to hear
All good points, I looked at a few other chemicals before settling on my two, the reason I avoided others like Deoxit was the added lube which will reduce traction. Do you find that?
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited No. It's a dry lube. You apply the CRC and let it dry for 24 hours. Then run the trains. I'd be interested if you try it. Thanks for the informative vid.
Edit: the dry lube is a protective coat. It probably actually lubricates at pressures far beyond what our toys exert, as found in large electrical contacts, e.g. mains and beyond. This is from memory of reading product papers.
@@SBCBears Thanks, I might look into it unless someone else has, hope to see a good bit of discussion now.
Great video, thanks for taking the time to share, I've subscribed to both yours and Tony's channels 👍
Good morning, thank you very much glad it was of interest!
I agree with oxidation from arcing. This is made far worse with the use of older resistance type controllers (like Triang/ HM clipper/ pre 1980 hornby) than it is with electronic controllers.
Ah yes that is very true indeed, hence the huge amount of crud back in those fun days.
Thanks for that . I’ve recently disconnected my electronic track cleaners so this is just the job .
Cheers Russell, why have you disconnected your track cleaners?
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited . I might run Coreless motors in future . Got a Rails/ Bachmann. Caledonian 812 and LMS Precursor on order . The Precursor certainly has coreless motor the 812 probably will have . So I reckoned I’d see what it was like without the track cleaners . I think modern rail and wheel interaction is a lot better than back in the 70s . The rails don’t seem to need as much cleaning . I’m not sure if it’s down to that or the relatively dry atmosphere in the loft . But your video good . I know now to get WD40 contact cleaner .
@@russellbenton2987 Hi Russell, oh yeah I am at the point of switching mine off but am always scared I'll forget and run a coreless on them. WD40 Contact Cleaner is very very good, but not the full picture, I still stand by my older cleaning video but don't use IPA, so the old track rubber is still needed occasionally!
Fabulous Mike one your best as for cleaner I’ve always used electric contact cleaner but I will be reading the content list later today 👌😎 thanks fred
Hi Fred that is really kind of you thanks so much. Be interesting to see what you have been using?
Hi Mike appreciate the video after I watched the video I went researching to see if I was doing it right. I have always used ipa for engine motor and wheel cleaning and white spirit for track cleaning through cmx wagon and have had good running . I found the white spirit is non polar and evaporates quickly and as you say I never run traction tyre locomotives after until I am 100% happy it’s right once again thanks for the video darryl
Excellent glad its all working out
I have researched this to death also, the MRH article is very good and both it and you, are on the right track, but you have only discussed one part of the ultimate "maintenance" regime! It needs to be a 3 part regime, of which polar cleaning is the second element. I would love to make a definitive video on the subject, but I don't have a runnable layout, so cannot prove it! I won't stick my neck out on something I can't prove, although all the science it is based on would back it up, practical proof, as evidence is needed.
I understand what you say, not until we had done extensive testing have we gone live with this, non-polar is the way to go
after watching both videos i have changed to a non polar solvent (lighter fluid) did a thorough clean of all wheels and track today will let you know how i get on
Hi, great to hear, I'll look forward to hearing how it went.
That track cleaning stick you make mention of, how good is that over points? I have a extensive layout running all through my house with lots of pointwork to deal with, and also running to one side of the kitchen, so I'm looking for an effective way to keep my track clean.
Also, what is the best way to clean wheels on modern locos? (Taking into account all wheel pick-up, all wheel drive).
Thanks for an informative video!
Good morning, thanks very much for the kind words. The Tidy track comes with two types of pads, white and dark grey. The darker ones are more course and can at times catch a little bit over points. Personally I use the dark pad at the front with the Contact Cleaner on and the white pad at the back to wipe up and polish all in one move. I'd certainly recommend it. The best way to clean wheels is with a good service cradle, cotton buds dipped in Contact Cleaner, all you need do it bring power to the wheels. I use small crocodile clips, this lets you clip on to any trailing wheels that have pick up or they can be held lightly against the driving wheels. Select a low to mid speed on the controller and remember to do the backs of the wheels also. Let me know how you get on?
Brilliant and fascinating video. I've always used lighter fluid only for cleaning and servicing. I had my suspicions about it damaging railway sleepers as I noticed sleepers becoming brittle and breaking in very isolated incidents. Initially I suspected a bad batch of plastic from hornby, the same problem then occurred where the track was from a different manufacturer which suggested something else was happening, I'm still unsure if lighter fluid caused the damage, your video suggests that it wasn't. Now I'm mystified.
Hi Christian, when I read your comment I just checked the sample of sleepers immersed in the fluid and its all still fine. Did you ever use Track Magic? or IPA? I've seen the same issues. So glad you enjoyed the video.
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited That's it!! I had forgotten that I used Track Magic once out of curiosity, and once only as I didn't see any advantage over lighter fluid. Did you observe sleeper damage due to Track Magic? If that's the case they really should revise what they are charging good money for.
@@rinnmhor Hi, yes sadly I did, I tested two bottles of it thinking of doing a video on it but found that my locos lost traction, the cost was massive and then started to see the same sleeper damage you report, I can not say for certain that it caused it but since stopping it, no more damage, also they say themselves to avoid getting it on sleepers, I would guess that it is very much a polar solvent????
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited Must be!, getting on the sleepers is hard to avoid. Cheers for that Mike, mystery solved, you're better than Poirot!
@@rinnmhor Hahahah thank you kindly
Thank You for all this information and testing. I am wondering if this science is applicable to cleaning and keeping clean motor commutators and brushes?
Hi Ian, I'd absolutely say yes, I've switched to lighter fuel for that very job, if you look at my class 37 restore you can see it in action. Thanks for watching
Hello Mike! I mineral spirits,polar? Thank You mate for your time! Cheers!
Hi, it's nonpolar
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited Thank You much! I wonder if it would be an ok cleaner to use with a CMX track cleaning car? Also what’s a good way to clean lock and rolling stock wheels? I’ve just used track cleaner on a paper towel and run the speed up on the loco and let the wheels spin on the towel. Is that a good method to use with the Wd-49 contact cleaner? Again,Thank You!
@@rustyc521 personally I'd be inclined to say no as it can be a little greasy. Might be worth trying a small section. Don't let it get on paint. Loco and stock wheels is the big question lol. The honest best answer is to put the loco or stock in a service cradle and use cotton buds (Q tips) and lighter fuel. I admit I still use IPA on plastic wheels
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited Thank You friend! I’ll do your suggestions and see how it works for me! You’ve been very helpful!
@ModelRailwaysUnlimited Wow! What a difference after using the WD-40 contact cleaner on the Tidy Track white pads! A big difference in how well it cleans! Now this is after I’ve already cleaned the track with Mineral Spirits using the same method! The contact cleaner did indeed clean better than just the mineral spirits! I’ll now be a consistent user of the WD-40 Contact Cleaner! But boy it does evaporate quickly! Thank You for a great video and educating me on cleaning track using the non polar contact cleaner! Now onto cleaning wheel sets!
Great video just ordered this today so I'll give it a try today at some point cheers Paul
Hi Paul, many thanks. Give it a go and let me know. Some amount of dirt is inevitable but I've found this helps
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited yes just going to pick it up now so hopefully find out tonight hopefully unless am call out with work cheers Paul
Hello want to thank you both ordered two cans this morning and wow how good is this brilliant I didnt realise how bad my track was so I'll now have a day working on my track cleaning skills lol
@@brentleajunction hi, wonderful to hear, don't forget the wheels, one mega clean up and loads of running time
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited am trying wheels tomorrow morning
Thanks for the science lesson. I do already have some WD40 Contact Cleaner for switch cleaning but have not tried it on my track as I didn't know whether it would be safe to use for that. I will certainly be trying it from now on. What are your thoughts on stuff like INOX that I've seen used here on RUclips.
Hi Rob, many thanks and good luck with it. Regarding Inox, I seem to recall it comes with a lubricant so I dismissed it as that would be unhelpful for traction.
Thanks Mike and Tony for this excellent information. I had been using IPA for years and often wondered why black gunge on the rails and wheels kept re-appearing so quickly and so often! So your explanation of the science was very interesting. I'm off to Screwfix later to collect a tin of WD40 Contact Cleaner. Thanks again guys. Vivian.
Cheers Vivian, you and me both, let me know how you get on
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited Hi Mike and Tony. Sorry I took so long to get back to you. I did use the WD40 Contact Cleaner and it made a dramatic improvement to the rails. No more black residue after running sessions! I do still have a couple of older Lima DMUs with the dreaded traction tyres and they still create and spread a bit of muck, but I hope to re wheel those with metal ones in due course. All my locos and rolling stock have metal wheels. So all in all, great results. Many thanks to you both. I have placed a link of your useful videos on RMweb. Best regards, Vivian.
@@cravensdmufan4449 Hi Vivian, that is great news indeed thanks so much for giving it a proper test and for the RMweb link. I have found that direct cleaning the old Lima wheels with the cleaner does improve things over time. Take care, Mike
Thanks guys for making us all aware regarding IPA and non polar chemicals, knew nothing about it, absolutely fascinating.
Video was certainly not long when you are discussing matters of this interest.
I will eventually purchase a CMX track cleaner as I have read so many good things about it, but instead of using IPA I was thinking now of using lighter fuel.
Do you think it will work?
Regards Chris
Our pleasure! It would probably work, but might be a bit smelly, just depends I guess. What do CMX recommend and if they do what is in it?
Smelly does not bother me and the smell would not be there for long I hope.
Have just read the CMX pamphlet and they dont seem to recommend anything. They give lots of hints as to what you can use but they have attached a chemists report who is also a model railroader and he recommends lacquer thinner!
Regards Chris
@@Chris-BognorRegis Those thinners are/were a mix of polar and non polar solvents, as such not really what you want, I think they might have a bit of an aggressive tendency towards plastics as well. Maybe the lighter fuel is best?
Agreed, I had already made up my mind to use ronson/ronsonol lighter fuel in my CMX. Thanks for the excellent advice.
Regards Chris
@@Chris-BognorRegis Cheers Chris, should be good, can I suggest only putting in what is required, 1 for safety and 2 to save waste as it does evaporate quickly!
Hello greta video. Just wondered with the WD40 contact cleaner how often should i be cleaning the track. Many thanks
Hi Phillip, well 'as needed' is the only answer I can give, I went from cleaning before every video with IPA to only having to clean twice a month now, so its had a big effect. If you can treat all your tracks and wheels in one go you should find it all stays clean for ages, maybe let us know?
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited ok thanks Mike
Should I use one of these fluid based contact cleaners or a peco track rubber?
Hi, thanks for the question. The answer is both! Use the rubber gently on the odd occasion you might notice a big build up or bit of corrosion, use the Non Polar fluid for normal track cleaning. Check out my previous track cleaning video to see how to use the rubber, but note I no longer recommend IPA for track cleaning.
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited thank you
Is it alright to use CRC QD contact cleaner rather than CO contact cleaner?
Hi, it looks like it's principle ingredient is naphtha, or lighter fuel, so yes it should be fine
As someone who's not long returned to the hobby this is great and makes perfect sense to me anyway, I've been seeing IPA advised a lot (and I use it for certain model paints as I usually do 1/35 armour) but I wasn't sure having cleaned up some old and rough wheels with it which dirtied again very quickly. I've got lighter fluid here (also useful for some paints) and will try that till I pick up some contact cleaner and compare. Thanks for the informative vid 👍
Glad it was helpful! Thanks very much Stuart, take care and let me know how you get on
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited cheers and no worries though I can tell you now that I've just done the track with a polishing cloth dampened with lighter fluid around a small block and although not filthy I was surprised at what came off and the layout is only at the wiring and testing stage with a couple of locos ran up and down for testing, one of the locos is the rough wheels offender, an old Mainline 03, and both track and wheels had previously been done with IPA... It all makes sense given the dark spots of crud I've noticed developing quickly on those wheels.
@@shb8124 Hi Stuart, how interesting, like you say it all stacks up. I featured my Mainline 03 recently, still runs :) ruclips.net/video/Okn8hFL69z0/видео.html
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited nice one, seems to be running pretty well some of them seem to be dogs. I was gifted this one and it was pretty seized up but I've got it running almost spot on now, it'll be perfect for my plan and era and with the tiny wheelbase it's great for testing trackwork, fingers crossed replacement axles from Peter's will help too. I'm not sure if anyone does replacement wheels though which is a shame 🤔
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited just to let you know that while work on both the layout and the 03 renovation have been continuing daily (so many tiny issues in the 03 but it's *almost* crawling along at a scale walking pace smoothly) I've noticed a dramatic drop in the amount of black crud it's rather rough wheels seem to generate since using the lighter fluid rather than IPA. Obviously longer term testing will show more but given the apparant shortage and price of pharmaceutical grade IPA lately I'll be saving what I have for other things and sticking to the lighter fluid for now at least 👍
Very interesting video. Now i'm wondering whether the type of operation would increase/decrease oxidisation. DCC puts a higher current > 16v into the circuit . DC only >12v. It seems logical to me the greater the voltage input to the track the greater the opportunity for arching. However I would be the first to admit I have little understanding of electrics. Discuss. Be interested to hear peoples thoughts or explanations.
That's hard to judge, because DCC runs a constant 16V pseudo AC, whilst analogue (DC) is very rarely run flat-out at 12v, probably no more than 6v, as we are playing trains, not Scalex racing!
Hi Gordon, yes interesting point. I would assume that the current drawn by a loco under dcc is similar to one on DC unless all the lights and sounds count for more. One to watch for sure
I use Zippos so have always cleaned my track with lighter fuel! Seriously though, lighter fuel can be obtained in all the ‘pound’ style stores and is quite cost effective.
Thanks for watching, are all lighter fuels equal?
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited lighter fluids chemical name is naphtha, you can buy a litre from ebay for around a tenner
@@newlynnrailway Interesting, is there no difference at all?
This is great information. Thankyou
Glad it was helpful! are you going to change over?
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited I am going to buy some WD 40 Contact Cleaner.
@@Ballinalower Great stuff, let me know how it goes.
I've got the old Triang track cleaning cars. Is the good old Meths actually any good?
Hi David, no sadly meths comes under the polar hearing and therefore makes dirt come back faster! Thanks for watching.
I don't use liquid cleaners at all, just the pimply side of offcuts of hardboard. It's a shame you didn't do before and after microscope views of the track, though.
Yes mechanical cleaning is a good option thanks for watching
Gday Mike
Is Inox similar to the WD40,
Thanks,
Hi Mick, I am really unsure on that, I thought that Inox had some lubricant in it?
@@ModelRailwaysUnlimited I'm not too sure to be honest, I saw it being recommended on a couple channels, think I'll get some of the WD40 what you've used also,
Being largely ignorant of things model railway.
Your photo show what looks to me to be spark erosion.
One thing I can say. There is a machining technique called spark erosion( also EBM). Used to shape very hard metals. This basically repeatedly makes circuit and breaks circuit. Current is concentrated in small contact area and the metal is 'burnt' away... The process takes place under a DILECTRIC , often oil. The process does not need atmospheric oxygen the oil is in part to flush the tiny grains( balls) of metal away...
The process in your application is made happen by the not quite circular wheels , not quite flat track, and any source of vibration in the system the make break make etc. situation ,will make the hole thing into a machine to erode your track/wheels.
Thanks for the interesting reply Jason
Can you use this on the point blades
I don't see why not, cheers Thomas