@@jorrsky when i said that i actually meant perspective smokes sry i wasnt clear. It adds consistency to the smokes and gameplay when it doesnt bleed under, its easy to identify and you are able to counter them. The smokes bleeding under adds too much calculation in your mind in situations you need to be shooting and concentrating because you gotta worry until where it bleeds and what it covers, in 1.6 source and csgo the smokes were always the same size you didnt have to think much and it was easy to identify perspective smokes and punish them. The actual annoying ones that i am against are the other one ways where you cant counter and just die because yoh cant see the dude
@@edudsfunk yea that too, id say bring back the same size non volumetric non bleeding down smokes but with the new look and that would be sick, valve wont do that tho
Just how it is with a competitive game like CS. Would be interesting what happens moving forward though like people are going to have different smoke set up every update lol. The palace smoke bleeding in through site is just an example like I wonder if you could massive smoke walls with your teammate with this same logic.
I honestly like the change because it introduces new content and strategies to the game. The idea of dropping down from palace without being seen sounds very interesting and teams have to play around that somewhat. Another tactic in the players toolkit.
I like it for that reason too, but I don't like that it takes away some pre-existing strategies like on the brick stack. It would be better if it still bled upwards a predetermined amount capable of realistically hiding at least one player, that way all the old spots remain viable as well as the new spots. I really hope this change doesn't mess with my Xbox lineup.
@@azder4140 You didn't have to know them but it allowed otherwise bad players to achieve ranks they shouldn't be in. I hit global by abusing one ways. I am DMG without them. One ways in csgo were broken. Thats not up for debate. The "one ways" in cs2, however were not even really that bad and they were always obvious as they had a visible gap. Idk this change seems bad.
These new smokes that bleed further down now don't properly cover up areas where their previous iteration did. For example, smoking bottom of connector on Mirage, no matter which staircase you decide to throw the smoke on, it will no longer go high enough to cover players crossing up catwalk. Filling gaps left to right still works normally, but their down to up behavior is now different even though it was only supposed to affect up to down behavior.
@@vmpere2637 congrats on making yourself look an idiot for 2 reasons, firstly right now the spread is inconsistent so the close side of con stair smoke only covers about 60% of the time, ropz literally showed this on stream. And second because to throw a smoke that is moving fast enough to land there you have to peek mid and expose urself to the possibility of a con player.
I just think it's strange how smokes go through walls right now. We were promised volumemetric smokes, but if you throw one in Mexican it just pops out through the map rather than fill that ditch.
@@ozalduin4383 when i tossed it in Mexican it was a fully round smoke. I don't think that should be intended behaviour and instead should fill that space out first
well it obviously cant be physically accurate so sometimes this will happen. smokes also clip through walls often, but that's just how the shader works so it might be fixed in the future
well i dont see a problem with the way smokes work right now cuz that way they just offer more opportunities to smoke things off and remove those annoying one ways
@@chimz8057 i dont even think so, didnt mean to offend him. i thought he sounded quite optimistic when explaining how to abuse one ways in cs2 beta (e.g. inferno long)
Changes a lot of strategies I feel like but I like the new smokes. I just wish they didn't sink you know? or as much like if you throw it on a high place a real smoke grenade would stay up there and go up so it makes it a lot less real for sure to see it just bleed down almost instantly just my 2 cents tho
The main issue is that they don’t fully cover when it lands on elevated positions. Like if you land a smoke in stairs or as you showed, short box, it doesn’t actually smoke that position. Someone can still stand on stairs or short box and see perfectly fine. It makes these positions impossible to smoke
This update also changed one of the most common smokes that, people may think works the same as in CS:GO (as it actually did at one point) which is the Stairs smoke. With these changes the old stairs smoke literally doesn't work, as the CT sitting in stair can still see palace. And the way it spreads downwards it starts spreading towards sandwich so it completely hides a CT that could be hiding there (and cannot be flushed out by mollies as well). So for those that are throwing the old stairs smoke, find a new one that lands a little deeper so it actually covers palace from stairs at the very least, and doesn't obstruct sandwich
Yup, I thought I was fucking up my lineup and it turns out it's just the way the smokes function now. I'm fine with them spreading downwards but they really need to have the same height as before
Because of this, it's harder to throw the stairs smoke on Mirage because it spills out into sandwich. Not sure what I think about it yet. I think it goes with the theme of volumetric smokes and it makes sense that they interact with the environment in this way. But getting the balance right is tricky.
Regardless of what Valve wants to do, my main issue with them right now is how holey they are. I think smokes should be consistent first and foremost, and being worried that a tiny hole gets abused is an issue in that regard.
@@patriotir I suppose I could have specified that I am talking about the smokes as they are without people shooting at them. Rather than being a very coherent blob, they have many areas that just aren't filled, leading to small gaps where you can see considerably more than you might expect. I could have sworn this was less of an issue at the end of the LT, but I might be tripping.
Honestly I kinda liked the "perspective" one-ways. Playing Val when it came out that was one of the few things I actually liked about it. And it's fundamentally different than CSGO oneways because you can actually immediately tell if you're going to be at a disadvantage instead of seeing a smoke and thinking you're safe then getting lazered through it because they can actually see you. Either way I'm not bothered by the change much. Just slight preference.
i liked the few oneways we still had as they were obvious to both parties that you could see under them. old one ways were problematic because if you didn't know about them it would always catch you off guard.
I think keep it bleeding downwards and just iterate on the map surfaces to not allow this stuff to happen ie. Put a triangle on top of the beams where it lands or angle surfaces to restrict smokes implicitly
This behaviour is much worse. The geometric one ways are not buggy one ways, they are creating a good angle. perspective advantages are not one ways and in my opinion are perfectly fair. Smokes now are just weird and unintuitive
the worst thing is. you can see through the smokes. i mean it. very often i just see them running behind the smokes but it depends on what is behind the smoke and where i am. for example if i am close to the smoke then i see less. if its in a darker place i also see less and if there is no boxes or stuff like that behind the smoke then its also harder to see.
When I was trying the throws you were showing in the beginning the other day, I noticed this. I think it's a nice thing to create a good smoke wall. But that A connector to Window is a bit nutty looking. Not sure how I would feel about the palace smoke. Would have to give it a try in casual. Also love your videos. Making this old man who used to travel to tourneys to win PC parts during 1.6 era want to get back to competitive a bit. :)
True, it's better to spot a one-way then getting killed by it and then realising that's a one-way ..... oneway's will going to be there for ever... just wait and watch for pro matches
@@49999 exactly...ine ways are unfortunately an undeniable biproducrlt of cs....to remove them, you'll have to uproot a bunch of cs itself....which at that point its no longer cs
I feel like this lowers the skill ceiling AGAIN. Perspective smokes were totally fine. As a player you would have to notice them and adjust accordingly. Now you basically never have to worry about a smoke ever again.
I feel like the height of smokes has changed. The A site cross smoke and bench/van smoke don't extend as high as they did in the limited test. Its much easier for CT's to pick off Ts when trying to push out. This just means better line-ups are going to be found, which is annoying but what can we do?
The current solution is fine but needs to be tweaked. When smokes bloom they still expand for a few seconds after the bloom occured. That is a huge problem in my opinion. its inconsistent and counter intuitive. This new "bleeding" effect is only weird because the original volume of the smoke is increased by it, rather than the smoke "falling" to the ground. I am not sure what the best solution is, but with the con smoke you are showing here for example it would be fine if the Smoke falls below the original grenade and covers con that way. That leaves the question to how long that would take and so on. So yea, these new smokes are cool in my opinion and they look great, but they need to be streamlined and optimized from a gameplay perspective. I also think they should reduce the smokes duration for a few seconds, so the instant spawn smokes are less powerful.
One fix could be making smokes that bleed down be vulnerable to mollies. Then you could throw a mollie under palace when you think they're dropping and burn them
afaik smokes in source and 1.6 are not server side which means more one ways but not consistently which is why they weren’t quite as utilized. i could be totally wrong about this though lol.
@@KnishG that's really interesting to me b/c looking back into the older games could give us clues on the problem of one ways. Gosh I luv analyzing this game for some reason.
I think it's fair since there's more counterplay to this than one way smokes. You can still nade out the smokes, wait them out, flash through, go around, etc. as opposed to a one way smoke allowing essentially complete control of a certain part of the map until the smoke runs out. It's not like I particularly LIKE these new smoke tricks but it's better than the alternative and can be fixed much more easily
I think overall this patch is a win for Valve. Lots of coverage about this broken fix. And this will drive a bunch of players back to try out the new broken smokes. Of course they will patch the smokes more but this is weird enough to bring people’s attention to the game
as someone who doesnt play counterstrike, i think they should find a way to eliminate the whole gameplay mechanic of "stand in this exact spot, aim at this exact pixel, smoke this exact spot across the map." as someone who plays Pavlov, where that kind of feat is rarely achievable thanks to throwing grenades with the variable force of your actual arm, i find seeing it done on counterstrike to be immersion breaking.
To answer your question at the end, obviously the perspective smokes. You could clearly see if it's a one way now, since it's tied to physics, there was so need for an immediate fix. Csgo one ways were simply broken. They should try to fix in internally first, before they f it up for good and release it in an update.
Mirage is pretty CT side with its forced chokepoints. You know, the fact that you have to push a checkpoint the moment you step out of T spawn is not very promising. So this is a welcome change. It could also help with maps like Nuke, or office too. Likewise, the CTs can really lock down an area with a well-placed smoke now, too.
TBH the only way i see this smoke work. is if they just did it realistic. A smoke grenade contains materials that creates 3 layers of smoke , Smoke that falls to the ground, Smoke that floats in the middle , and smoke that goes higher up. The first layer is falling down due to it being Thick and heavy, The second layer stays in the middle because its weight is very close to the air around it . The third layer floats upwards like helium because its made from a very thin smoke that is much lighter than air. Now for the point. The thicker the smoke, the harder it is to see through. so the smoke should ALWAYS fall down to the ground but with layers, it should stay the same thick smoke all over to the top like shown in the video. Now yes if there will be a thin top layer it would be just the same as CSGO and it wouldcreate bunch of one ways. So in this case i think its fine to remove the top layer to create balance but for short, the smoke should completely fall to the ground until a certain point, in some sort of Water physics ish. (kinda sliding down) that way , there will be no Leggs "oneways" , and no "Anti Boost" smokes.
Absolutely preferred the way it was before. At least you knew you were looking at a one way. Does mirage stairs still work? It feels a lot less obvious to predict how smokes will behave now.
Its new which I get a lot of professionals/veteran players aren't going to like but its going to cause new strategies and plays that werent seen before, which is good as nothing major has really changed in ways that higher level lobbies are played and what the default strats are. Im excited to see new plays and a Varity in maps that Im used too
For cases like the mirage jungle they can always just change the geometry/clipping so that the smoke can't stay/land up there. The current behaviour is fine.
I don't mind smokes that bleed down, if you're playing site you will hear people drop like the one of palace, at least its counter able whereas one ways are just hope you land a shot back, they just need to reduce the time they take to dissipate since I could run to the end of the street and back and still be waiting for it to clear
the new perspective based one ways are counter-able tho, its called a flashbang. The enemy sees you first if you try to cross it, the same is true if you try to run through a smoke so it isnt an unfair or inherently broken mechanic.
@@sn0w2001 so what you’re saying is one ways are not broken because they can be flash-banged? What sort of logic is that, one ways get patched because of how broken they’re, it’s why csgo was constant one ways in higher level play.
@@ByLJT except that in csgo u couldn't physically see the enemy even if staring at them, in cs2 you can. By your logic smokes as a concept are broken because you need to flash through them
@@ByLJT furthermore if you actually watched high level play instead of highlights you'd know at most you saw a single one way used per map because they would just get prefired or flashed off when the enemy know what the smoke is. Bored of people acting like csgo was just a one way duel, most brain-dead na take, never see anyone who actually knows anything, aka EU talent or commentators or even content creators pedalling this story. So not only was it barely an issue before but now it is fixed as you can see the dude back.
@@sn0w2001 you make no sense, the new one ways still make it so you can’t physically see the player shooting at you because of them being at a deeper angle to see your legs now, not to mention also last twice as long making them just as broken as csgo or even more broken, one ways should not be in the game period, it’s a mechanic players and devs don’t want because of the unfair advantage a player gets
not being able to boost over a smoke doesn't negatively effect the game just nade it or wait for it to pass im more concerned about the lag when someone leaves smokes or mollies
@@flortrupp are you sure? Real life smoke are worse than in cs, because the smoke coming out of it much much longer, like you'll have to wait for like 10-15 secs until the smoke actually covers you from the enemy. They will become useless I think, but who knows, I've never seen a realistic smoke in games
@@sadge0 but then you see absolutely nothing. So you throw, wait and then go on site planting and nobody can see you. Also IT holds longer than just 20 seconds. You can throw it at the start of the round and it will last until the round is over.
I would say go with the more "physical" model, so the smock should go all the way down because the smoking particle is slightly heavier than air. Then let the e-sport and community find the balance point, maybe after a while make changes to map to address overpowered strats
as someone who abused one ways: i think this is way better than perspective smokes. i would honestly go so far as to say the smoke should always have it’s natural size AND bleed down if there is space to do so
This just makes the game fresh. You've always been able to smoke the entrance of palace and drop down behind the doublebox to site, without beeing seen, sure this one makes it easier but its always been a thing.
I think removing one-ways is a better option. For the first palace example you showed, you still have footsteps that pretty much anyone near default, triple, and even CT can hear. For the 2nd example, you know that the smoke landed on top of the arch-thing. So you know it's not a regular jungle smoke and was probably thrown from a different position. One ways are just unfair and make the game difficult to play for one side. They are unfair by nature. Smokes that bleed down offer a tactical advantage that is not too powerful.
I think these smokes are better, i dont mind that smokes now can be bigger or smaller depending on the throw or situations like the palace free jump, i just don't want bullshit in my matchrs where i keep needing to learn how to identify one ways just to stop desperate players from milking kills from the less fortunate
I honestly just think that one-way smokes looked weird, like why is this cloud of smoke spreading to the bottom but stopping half way there. The updated ones seem more consistent within the games logic.
I think I prefer this, in my opinion, one ways are a cheap gimmick that increase friction but not difficulty, like operators in games like apex and valerant. An exception to this is rainbow 6, it is fine because each operator only has 1 unique thing and everything else is consistent instead of the multiple skills like in the other mentioned games (I believe its 3 and 5 respectively). When I die to a gimmick I roll my eyes because they provide very little value to the game as a whole. Hell look at Fortnite, the game was doing very poorly because the building gimmick got stale, and it took value away from the game that made people leave (at least from what stats I saw).
i like this change tbh. i dont see any issue with this. if you still want info after being smoked off with a smoke similar to that jungle smoke you can use a he to clear it.
I like these new smokes. Only thing that i think could be improved is that example you showed on the mirage cat bricks. A smoke on the top of a platform like that should probably always prevent someone standing on it from seeing.
I definitely prefer the previous smokes. I don't have a problem with those. The new ones aren't intuitive at all, very unpredictable. The true one way smokes where you should be able to see someone from a physical standpoint but couldn't have been non existent in cs2 so I was happy with how things were.
I think with how the new smokes work down bleed is good cozz the smoke can be moved it's not like old smoke that u have to wate to see past so this ultimately gives both side a more fair chance
I dont really see Palace that much of a problem because to get the smoke down there you really have to peek out of palace very far. Jungle or stairs or probably even ct you could shoot you before getting down the smoke so I dont really see the palace smoke that strong. You would have to keep Palace already outside to get it down and if you have that spot you can also go site as well np. I wonder if there is a spot that you could throw the smoke from Palace to make it bounce to the same position but stay out of sight, inside Palace. Like throwing the smoke around the corner, double wall bang and then down. THAT would be probably op. With that smoke right there on 0:53 you can setup on Ninja, under Palace, Site and Palace no problem and shoot all on A Site.
ill be honest, over the years, smokes have always been my least favorite part of this game. its not fun to have to learn all the smoke throw locations - but at the same time I can appreciate there is at least some skill required unlike Valorant where you just press a button
I like this new better. The smoke becomes a more offensive tool as you can use it to block CT positions. Let it play for a bit and see how it goes. Smart players find the way
I think they can find a better solution then either of these 2 options but I would much prefer the first variation with one ways, because at least they are extremely obvious one ways unlike csgo one ways and you can still frag the smoke and you can still see the bullets in the smoke, so I’d rather have that because to me it is unnatural the way it works now, also it was already bad before , the stairs smoke on mirage, but now it is even worse in cs2 because it covers all of sandwich essentially making it a better spot to play or a harder spot to clear . But there must be a way for them to make it better . There will be many more cheesy smokes like the jungle smoke found if they keep it how it is
I honestly dont find this unreasonable at all. I have a feeling that this might be the reason why valve made HEs get rid of smokes and how you can see through it when you shoot from the sides.
You say that it introduced new problems. I don't consider those problems. Maybe the palace one ~ except, how are you gonna throw that one as a T exactly? Like I'm not gonna throw that as CT obviously... The one on jungle is arguably covering 'too much' and you can't boost over it but... Why is that a problem? I like it.
I think this is fine. Both the ones that left a gap and these look great imo, and you can always use a nade to give you some visibility if you need it. All in all, great improvement from csgo.
L take, they may be annoying in a casual level and in comp, but credit where its due this game is built on those sweaty tryhards backs and it only feels as fair and fun as it does because they push to make it balanced so casual players reap the rewards.
@@jaemotoo "They removed my only way to get kills because I can't aim, and I need an unfair advantage to actually win so I'm going to cry about it instead of getting better." Makes sense. I completely agree.
Last question sounded pretty rhetorical. ...but if I was to answer, the real answer is that we don't know. Look, the smokes in CS2 are very different. We have ways to displace the smoke too, don't forget. The meta will contine to change and evolve according to what valve want the game to be, and they want it to be as accessible as possible. That means no nerdy bullshit that will cause people to uninstall. That said, there are still plenty of other bullshit problems like inconsistent hitreg and cheaters.
Huhu woooah dude sick picture of lisa that's awesome and doesn't suck at all
you must be fun at the band kid meetup
@@crunchiesjl they love me😘
@@crunchiesjl the simpsons wave lisa pic is band kid adjacent
@@crunchiesjlyou must be fun on the short bus only
most random hate comment ever lmaoo
I'd rather this over a one way as it gives both teams time to readjust
I prefer the one way tbh
@@brifflingsCan I ask why? These may be annoying, but one ways are an uncounterable advantage. Damn near a bug
@@jorrsky when i said that i actually meant perspective smokes sry i wasnt clear. It adds consistency to the smokes and gameplay when it doesnt bleed under, its easy to identify and you are able to counter them. The smokes bleeding under adds too much calculation in your mind in situations you need to be shooting and concentrating because you gotta worry until where it bleeds and what it covers, in 1.6 source and csgo the smokes were always the same size you didnt have to think much and it was easy to identify perspective smokes and punish them. The actual annoying ones that i am against are the other one ways where you cant counter and just die because yoh cant see the dude
yea and with this new type you can throw a HE grenade and see the enemies behind it
@@edudsfunk yea that too, id say bring back the same size non volumetric non bleeding down smokes but with the new look and that would be sick, valve wont do that tho
I think its funny that they fix one problem and create another. Such is the life of a software developer
People don’t realize how hard it is to actually solve problems
You squash a bug, only for it to birth several new one... Yup sounds like developer usual lunch.
@@CrusheryCSthere is bad problem and good problem.
wasn't a problem till the streamers bitched and they made the smokes smaller and then we have problem after problem now.
Just how it is with a competitive game like CS. Would be interesting what happens moving forward though like people are going to have different smoke set up every update lol. The palace smoke bleeding in through site is just an example like I wonder if you could massive smoke walls with your teammate with this same logic.
I honestly like the change because it introduces new content and strategies to the game.
The idea of dropping down from palace without being seen sounds very interesting and teams have to play around that somewhat.
Another tactic in the players toolkit.
I like it for that reason too, but I don't like that it takes away some pre-existing strategies like on the brick stack. It would be better if it still bled upwards a predetermined amount capable of realistically hiding at least one player, that way all the old spots remain viable as well as the new spots. I really hope this change doesn't mess with my Xbox lineup.
@@lasagner9567 Change is good, keeps the game interesting. I'm okay with stuff being removed
That’s insane that the smokes do that but would you deal with that or get clipped from a one way
exactly whats wrong with getting clipped with a 1 way lol, you never had to know 1 ways to be good in csgo
@@azder4140 You didn't have to know them but it allowed otherwise bad players to achieve ranks they shouldn't be in. I hit global by abusing one ways. I am DMG without them.
One ways in csgo were broken. Thats not up for debate. The "one ways" in cs2, however were not even really that bad and they were always obvious as they had a visible gap. Idk this change seems bad.
@@dtreezyI agree
@@dtreezy agree wholeheartedly, perspective based one ways are fair and counter-able, leave them in.
Get clipped from a one way 100% but I’m not raging about the change Valve clearly hates one ways and I respect that.
These new smokes that bleed further down now don't properly cover up areas where their previous iteration did. For example, smoking bottom of connector on Mirage, no matter which staircase you decide to throw the smoke on, it will no longer go high enough to cover players crossing up catwalk. Filling gaps left to right still works normally, but their down to up behavior is now different even though it was only supposed to affect up to down behavior.
exactly, was playing last night and died in game after i thought i smoked con but anyone above the stairs can see cat
Then stop throwing bad con smokes. If you hit the back of the wall and bounce it off you can cover all of con, that’s a skill issue.
@@vmpere2637 this is what im thinking lmao they really gonna have me load up cs2 for this?
@@vmpere2637 congrats on making yourself look an idiot for 2 reasons, firstly right now the spread is inconsistent so the close side of con stair smoke only covers about 60% of the time, ropz literally showed this on stream. And second because to throw a smoke that is moving fast enough to land there you have to peek mid and expose urself to the possibility of a con player.
@@SplarcieRS refer to my reply to him as to why you're also just obnoxious and want to feel right more than you care about being right.
Bro these new smokes are AWESOME
I just think it's strange how smokes go through walls right now. We were promised volumemetric smokes, but if you throw one in Mexican it just pops out through the map rather than fill that ditch.
They dont go tru walls. They just spread more which goes around the corners and such more.
@@ozalduin4383 when i tossed it in Mexican it was a fully round smoke. I don't think that should be intended behaviour and instead should fill that space out first
@@JalmaanI agree some areas do not get filled, and some areas a lot of the smoke is going thru the wall is seems idk
well it obviously cant be physically accurate so sometimes this will happen. smokes also clip through walls often, but that's just how the shader works so it might be fixed in the future
@@Jalmaanthat isn’t intended, it is a bug
as a person whos never played CS gmaes before, I think they look cool
They are amazing to look at and even play around. The wisps of the smoke are so aesthetic :)
@@CrusheryCS all I know is that they look better than val and cs:go. They look realistic
same thing the cs dev who came up with this idea said
I like hearing outside perspectives. Thanks :)
@@thug588 underrated
well i dont see a problem with the way smokes work right now cuz that way they just offer more opportunities to smoke things off and remove those annoying one ways
crushcs probably just wants everything to be the exact same as it was in the past decade so he doesn't have to adjust
@@chimz8057 i dont even think so, didnt mean to offend him. i thought he sounded quite optimistic when explaining how to abuse one ways in cs2 beta (e.g. inferno long)
Changes a lot of strategies I feel like but I like the new smokes. I just wish they didn't sink you know? or as much like if you throw it on a high place a real smoke grenade would stay up there and go up so it makes it a lot less real for sure to see it just bleed down almost instantly just my 2 cents tho
The main issue is that they don’t fully cover when it lands on elevated positions. Like if you land a smoke in stairs or as you showed, short box, it doesn’t actually smoke that position. Someone can still stand on stairs or short box and see perfectly fine. It makes these positions impossible to smoke
drake where is the oneway?
This update also changed one of the most common smokes that, people may think works the same as in CS:GO (as it actually did at one point) which is the Stairs smoke. With these changes the old stairs smoke literally doesn't work, as the CT sitting in stair can still see palace. And the way it spreads downwards it starts spreading towards sandwich so it completely hides a CT that could be hiding there (and cannot be flushed out by mollies as well). So for those that are throwing the old stairs smoke, find a new one that lands a little deeper so it actually covers palace from stairs at the very least, and doesn't obstruct sandwich
Yup, I thought I was fucking up my lineup and it turns out it's just the way the smokes function now. I'm fine with them spreading downwards but they really need to have the same height as before
I think this is more interesting tbh, like it creates so many interesting scenarios which could be seen in pro play I can’t wait
I'm so excited to see the HE counters to smokes :)
better change 100%. At least smokes now have a counter with nades and bullet holes so you're still not completely blocked off form any info
Because of this, it's harder to throw the stairs smoke on Mirage because it spills out into sandwich. Not sure what I think about it yet. I think it goes with the theme of volumetric smokes and it makes sense that they interact with the environment in this way. But getting the balance right is tricky.
Regardless of what Valve wants to do, my main issue with them right now is how holey they are.
I think smokes should be consistent first and foremost, and being worried that a tiny hole gets abused is an issue in that regard.
Whats your problem with holes bro? you dont like holes? or you dont like big holes? please be specific! because a lot of us here like holes
@@patriotir I suppose I could have specified that I am talking about the smokes as they are without people shooting at them. Rather than being a very coherent blob, they have many areas that just aren't filled, leading to small gaps where you can see considerably more than you might expect. I could have sworn this was less of an issue at the end of the LT, but I might be tripping.
@@Hyperus Oh so you think you're better than holes, eh? Hey everyone! We got a hole bad-mouther ovah here!
@@patriotirbro wants Val smokes in cs
I assume this guy prefers shafts rather than holes
Honestly I kinda liked the "perspective" one-ways. Playing Val when it came out that was one of the few things I actually liked about it. And it's fundamentally different than CSGO oneways because you can actually immediately tell if you're going to be at a disadvantage instead of seeing a smoke and thinking you're safe then getting lazered through it because they can actually see you. Either way I'm not bothered by the change much. Just slight preference.
i liked the few oneways we still had as they were obvious to both parties that you could see under them. old one ways were problematic because if you didn't know about them it would always catch you off guard.
I think keep it bleeding downwards and just iterate on the map surfaces to not allow this stuff to happen ie. Put a triangle on top of the beams where it lands or angle surfaces to restrict smokes implicitly
This is actually a solution I can get behind
This behaviour is much worse. The geometric one ways are not buggy one ways, they are creating a good angle. perspective advantages are not one ways and in my opinion are perfectly fair. Smokes now are just weird and unintuitive
This
the worst thing is. you can see through the smokes. i mean it. very often i just see them running behind the smokes
but it depends on what is behind the smoke and where i am. for example if i am close to the smoke then i see less. if its in a darker place i also see less and if there is no boxes or stuff like that behind the smoke then its also harder to see.
I love the new smokes. You dont have to be insanely precise as before. Mirage connector is much easier now.
When I was trying the throws you were showing in the beginning the other day, I noticed this. I think it's a nice thing to create a good smoke wall. But that A connector to Window is a bit nutty looking. Not sure how I would feel about the palace smoke. Would have to give it a try in casual. Also love your videos. Making this old man who used to travel to tourneys to win PC parts during 1.6 era want to get back to competitive a bit. :)
That palace smoke is literally never going to be a problem. From where he threw it from, he was exposed to Jungle and CT and would be dead instantly.
The thing is the one-ways were so easy to spot and added an extra skill gap I don't really like this change but it doesn't mix too much up at least
True, it's better to spot a one-way then getting killed by it and then realising that's a one-way ..... oneway's will going to be there for ever... just wait and watch for pro matches
@@49999 exactly...ine ways are unfortunately an undeniable biproducrlt of cs....to remove them, you'll have to uproot a bunch of cs itself....which at that point its no longer cs
Extra skill gap? U just drop a smoke and hold an angle. Its a gimmick
I feel like this lowers the skill ceiling AGAIN.
Perspective smokes were totally fine. As a player you would have to notice them and adjust accordingly. Now you basically never have to worry about a smoke ever again.
Making a tactical shooter have less tools has always been a strange concept to me..
@@CrusheryCS this
hot take coming in: great changes
I like that smokes behave more realistically unexpected and random
i do think it looks weird how the smokes burst downwards and not rly upwards anymore if its on an elevated area
@@SoulHydron smoke can fall if it's not from a fire or taken by wind
In germany we have a word for that type of action. It's called "verschlimmbessern". I let you guys have the fun finding out what exactly that means.
smokes in cs2 are op asf
I feel like the height of smokes has changed. The A site cross smoke and bench/van smoke don't extend as high as they did in the limited test. Its much easier for CT's to pick off Ts when trying to push out.
This just means better line-ups are going to be found, which is annoying but what can we do?
I like these ones better, introduces new possibilities for strats that weren't possible before
Reducing the tactical tools in a tactical shooter is always a strange premise
little brother is mad they removed his oneways 💀
@@CrusheryCS not really reducing if it takes one thing but adds another. I didn't have a problem with one ways to begin with though
@@armeretta I think he was talking to CrusheryCS.
@@morosov4595 so is he^^
This is an AWESOME video!
The current solution is fine but needs to be tweaked.
When smokes bloom they still expand for a few seconds after the bloom occured. That is a huge problem in my opinion. its inconsistent and counter intuitive.
This new "bleeding" effect is only weird because the original volume of the smoke is increased by it, rather than the smoke "falling" to the ground.
I am not sure what the best solution is, but with the con smoke you are showing here for example it would be fine if the Smoke falls below the original grenade and covers con that way. That leaves the question to how long that would take and so on.
So yea, these new smokes are cool in my opinion and they look great, but they need to be streamlined and optimized from a gameplay perspective.
I also think they should reduce the smokes duration for a few seconds, so the instant spawn smokes are less powerful.
One fix could be making smokes that bleed down be vulnerable to mollies. Then you could throw a mollie under palace when you think they're dropping and burn them
Valve: "Yeaaaahhh we finally fixed it"
Community:
I'm kind of curious, were one ways a problem in source and 1.6? Doing a quick search I couldn't find much about one ways.
afaik smokes in source and 1.6 are not server side which means more one ways but not consistently which is why they weren’t quite as utilized. i could be totally wrong about this though lol.
im assuming people werent competitive as today to try searching around for It consistently but if it had the same smoke physics as csgo then prob
@@KnishG that's really interesting to me b/c looking back into the older games could give us clues on the problem of one ways.
Gosh I luv analyzing this game for some reason.
I think it's fair since there's more counterplay to this than one way smokes. You can still nade out the smokes, wait them out, flash through, go around, etc. as opposed to a one way smoke allowing essentially complete control of a certain part of the map until the smoke runs out. It's not like I particularly LIKE these new smoke tricks but it's better than the alternative and can be fixed much more easily
I think overall this patch is a win for Valve. Lots of coverage about this broken fix. And this will drive a bunch of players back to try out the new broken smokes.
Of course they will patch the smokes more but this is weird enough to bring people’s attention to the game
The smoke on A stairs does that too which allows you to peek palace with a timing
I appreciate you being straight to the point with your video. Love.❤
Cheers :)
as someone who doesnt play counterstrike, i think they should find a way to eliminate the whole gameplay mechanic of "stand in this exact spot, aim at this exact pixel, smoke this exact spot across the map." as someone who plays Pavlov, where that kind of feat is rarely achievable thanks to throwing grenades with the variable force of your actual arm, i find seeing it done on counterstrike to be immersion breaking.
To answer your question at the end, obviously the perspective smokes. You could clearly see if it's a one way now, since it's tied to physics, there was so need for an immediate fix. Csgo one ways were simply broken. They should try to fix in internally first, before they f it up for good and release it in an update.
Mirage is pretty CT side with its forced chokepoints. You know, the fact that you have to push a checkpoint the moment you step out of T spawn is not very promising. So this is a welcome change. It could also help with maps like Nuke, or office too. Likewise, the CTs can really lock down an area with a well-placed smoke now, too.
Thank god. I hated that cartoon fart smoke. But I feel like it’ll cause issues for certain lineups. I think it should still bleed, but a lot slower
glad they released this esports ready game, the true cs killer
TBH the only way i see this smoke work. is if they just did it realistic.
A smoke grenade contains materials that creates 3 layers of smoke , Smoke that falls to the ground, Smoke that floats in the middle , and smoke that goes higher up.
The first layer is falling down due to it being Thick and heavy,
The second layer stays in the middle because its weight is very close to the air around it .
The third layer floats upwards like helium because its made from a very thin smoke that is much lighter than air.
Now for the point.
The thicker the smoke, the harder it is to see through. so the smoke should ALWAYS fall down to the ground but with layers, it should stay the same thick smoke all over to the top like shown in the video.
Now yes if there will be a thin top layer it would be just the same as CSGO and it wouldcreate bunch of one ways.
So in this case i think its fine to remove the top layer to create balance but for short, the smoke should completely fall to the ground until a certain point, in some sort of Water physics ish. (kinda sliding down)
that way , there will be no Leggs "oneways" , and no "Anti Boost" smokes.
Absolutely preferred the way it was before. At least you knew you were looking at a one way. Does mirage stairs still work? It feels a lot less obvious to predict how smokes will behave now.
Stairs smoke needs to be placed as close to the wall as possible, if you land it anywhere else it doesn't work
Its new which I get a lot of professionals/veteran players aren't going to like but its going to cause new strategies and plays that werent seen before, which is good as nothing major has really changed in ways that higher level lobbies are played and what the default strats are. Im excited to see new plays and a Varity in maps that Im used too
For cases like the mirage jungle they can always just change the geometry/clipping so that the smoke can't stay/land up there. The current behaviour is fine.
When homie pulled out the binoculars I couldn't take it serious anymore, lmfao.
I use those binos when you shower 🧼
I don't mind smokes that bleed down, if you're playing site you will hear people drop like the one of palace, at least its counter able whereas one ways are just hope you land a shot back, they just need to reduce the time they take to dissipate since I could run to the end of the street and back and still be waiting for it to clear
the new perspective based one ways are counter-able tho, its called a flashbang. The enemy sees you first if you try to cross it, the same is true if you try to run through a smoke so it isnt an unfair or inherently broken mechanic.
@@sn0w2001 so what you’re saying is one ways are not broken because they can be flash-banged? What sort of logic is that, one ways get patched because of how broken they’re, it’s why csgo was constant one ways in higher level play.
@@ByLJT except that in csgo u couldn't physically see the enemy even if staring at them, in cs2 you can. By your logic smokes as a concept are broken because you need to flash through them
@@ByLJT furthermore if you actually watched high level play instead of highlights you'd know at most you saw a single one way used per map because they would just get prefired or flashed off when the enemy know what the smoke is. Bored of people acting like csgo was just a one way duel, most brain-dead na take, never see anyone who actually knows anything, aka EU talent or commentators or even content creators pedalling this story. So not only was it barely an issue before but now it is fixed as you can see the dude back.
@@sn0w2001 you make no sense, the new one ways still make it so you can’t physically see the player shooting at you because of them being at a deeper angle to see your legs now, not to mention also last twice as long making them just as broken as csgo or even more broken, one ways should not be in the game period, it’s a mechanic players and devs don’t want because of the unfair advantage a player gets
not being able to boost over a smoke doesn't negatively effect the game just nade it or wait for it to pass im more concerned about the lag when someone leaves smokes or mollies
Imagine if one day they'll just say "fuck it, smokes are now behave like in real life"
Then CS is dead. You just throw 5 smokes then and can walk in site without anyone seeing you
@@flortrupp are you sure? Real life smoke are worse than in cs, because the smoke coming out of it much much longer, like you'll have to wait for like 10-15 secs until the smoke actually covers you from the enemy. They will become useless I think, but who knows, I've never seen a realistic smoke in games
@@sadge0 but then you see absolutely nothing. So you throw, wait and then go on site planting and nobody can see you. Also IT holds longer than just 20 seconds. You can throw it at the start of the round and it will last until the round is over.
I would say go with the more "physical" model, so the smock should go all the way down because the smoking particle is slightly heavier than air. Then let the e-sport and community find the balance point, maybe after a while make changes to map to address overpowered strats
Man im loving the newer gen of cs channels coming out w cs2, refreshing take and perspective
dang that jungle smoke is crazy dawg
as someone who abused one ways: i think this is way better than perspective smokes. i would honestly go so far as to say the smoke should always have it’s natural size AND bleed down if there is space to do so
i like how they said in cs2 with volumetric smokes they would get rid of one-ways but they still managed to overlook them
This just makes the game fresh. You've always been able to smoke the entrance of palace and drop down behind the doublebox to site, without beeing seen, sure this one makes it easier but its always been a thing.
these are much better, although the cat example is a good reason to probably still have some smaller radius around where the smoke lands exactly
I like the new smokes, it changes gameplay and it makes it fun to relearn something new
That last smoke is insane.
Just a little bit broken but its fine 😅
Insane that gas which is supposed to go upwards actually is heavy as fuck and goes down
Mustard gas lol
Why should this gas go upwards?
"gas" it entirely depends on if the gas is heavier than air, which smokes are alot
lmao not every gas "goes upwards" ... 'Murican education huh?
I think removing one-ways is a better option. For the first palace example you showed, you still have footsteps that pretty much anyone near default, triple, and even CT can hear.
For the 2nd example, you know that the smoke landed on top of the arch-thing. So you know it's not a regular jungle smoke and was probably thrown from a different position.
One ways are just unfair and make the game difficult to play for one side. They are unfair by nature. Smokes that bleed down offer a tactical advantage that is not too powerful.
I think these smokes are better, i dont mind that smokes now can be bigger or smaller depending on the throw or situations like the palace free jump, i just don't want bullshit in my matchrs where i keep needing to learn how to identify one ways just to stop desperate players from milking kills from the less fortunate
I honestly just think that one-way smokes looked weird, like why is this cloud of smoke spreading to the bottom but stopping half way there. The updated ones seem more consistent within the games logic.
That last smoke was INSANE! Yeah I'm not sure what they're thinking
i appreciate valve is trying new stuff so quickly and aggressively after release.
I think these new smokes just change some strategies we can now use/cannot use anymore, but in a minor way. Perspective-oneways were more broken
I think they could make the smoke dissapear faster the larger the volume.
I think I prefer this, in my opinion, one ways are a cheap gimmick that increase friction but not difficulty, like operators in games like apex and valerant. An exception to this is rainbow 6, it is fine because each operator only has 1 unique thing and everything else is consistent instead of the multiple skills like in the other mentioned games (I believe its 3 and 5 respectively). When I die to a gimmick I roll my eyes because they provide very little value to the game as a whole. Hell look at Fortnite, the game was doing very poorly because the building gimmick got stale, and it took value away from the game that made people leave (at least from what stats I saw).
i like this change tbh. i dont see any issue with this. if you still want info after being smoked off with a smoke similar to that jungle smoke you can use a he to clear it.
I like these new smokes. Only thing that i think could be improved is that example you showed on the mirage cat bricks. A smoke on the top of a platform like that should probably always prevent someone standing on it from seeing.
What is valve doing
Counting their gambling money.
They're cooking
That jungle smoke is like 3 CS:GO smokes in one
Its actually MASSIVE :))
I definitely prefer the previous smokes. I don't have a problem with those. The new ones aren't intuitive at all, very unpredictable. The true one way smokes where you should be able to see someone from a physical standpoint but couldn't have been non existent in cs2 so I was happy with how things were.
Agreed
This is far better smoke physics actually work like irl smokes
So they nerfed one way smokes but coincidentally buffed normal smokes
I think with how the new smokes work down bleed is good cozz the smoke can be moved it's not like old smoke that u have to wate to see past so this ultimately gives both side a more fair chance
No matter what they do, players will always find a way or one way.....
A tale as old as time
The way smokes got changed feels like a weird buff tbh. Specifically with that Jungle and Palace Smoke.
I these smokes are nice but now the smoke don't rise up high enough to fill spots such as connector. It's way more inconsistent which makes it bad.
The connector smoke is BACK
I dont really see Palace that much of a problem because to get the smoke down there you really have to peek out of palace very far.
Jungle or stairs or probably even ct you could shoot you before getting down the smoke so I dont really see the palace smoke that strong.
You would have to keep Palace already outside to get it down and if you have that spot you can also go site as well np.
I wonder if there is a spot that you could throw the smoke from Palace to make it bounce to the same position but stay out of sight, inside Palace. Like throwing the smoke around the corner, double wall bang and then down. THAT would be probably op. With that smoke right there on 0:53 you can setup on Ninja, under Palace, Site and Palace no problem and shoot all on A Site.
I find it funny that people are complaining about smokes covering stuff
Not too much complaining on my part, it’s just how goofy the smokes are now. I suspect players will find strange smokes soon
The problem now is the normal connector smokes are leaving a gap at the top just like it used to be in CSGO. Quite disappointing.
that jungle smoke is dirty af
This is clearly the lesser evil if the alternative is one ways, but it probably merits some additional tinkering.
These new smokes are awesome!
ill be honest, over the years, smokes have always been my least favorite part of this game. its not fun to have to learn all the smoke throw locations - but at the same time I can appreciate there is at least some skill required unlike Valorant where you just press a button
Smoke lineups ARE CS. having to learn things justifies the tactical nature of the game. If its just running and gunning, why not play Call of Duty?
I like this new better. The smoke becomes a more offensive tool as you can use it to block CT positions.
Let it play for a bit and see how it goes. Smart players find the way
I think they can find a better solution then either of these 2 options but I would much prefer the first variation with one ways, because at least they are extremely obvious one ways unlike csgo one ways and you can still frag the smoke and you can still see the bullets in the smoke, so I’d rather have that because to me it is unnatural the way it works now, also it was already bad before , the stairs smoke on mirage, but now it is even worse in cs2 because it covers all of sandwich essentially making it a better spot to play or a harder spot to clear . But there must be a way for them to make it better . There will be many more cheesy smokes like the jungle smoke found if they keep it how it is
I think they should revert the smoke time back to what it was in CSGO
I honestly dont find this unreasonable at all. I have a feeling that this might be the reason why valve made HEs get rid of smokes and how you can see through it when you shoot from the sides.
You say that it introduced new problems. I don't consider those problems.
Maybe the palace one ~ except, how are you gonna throw that one as a T exactly? Like I'm not gonna throw that as CT obviously...
The one on jungle is arguably covering 'too much' and you can't boost over it but... Why is that a problem?
I like it.
I think this is fine. Both the ones that left a gap and these look great imo, and you can always use a nade to give you some visibility if you need it. All in all, great improvement from csgo.
I love new smokes. Basically, everything that makes sweaty tryhards cry is healthy for the game.
"Anything that removes strategy or competitive edge is healthy for this highly strategic and competitive game"
Makes sense. I completely agree.
L take, they may be annoying in a casual level and in comp, but credit where its due this game is built on those sweaty tryhards backs and it only feels as fair and fun as it does because they push to make it balanced so casual players reap the rewards.
@@jaemotoo "They removed my only way to get kills because I can't aim, and I need an unfair advantage to actually win so I'm going to cry about it instead of getting better." Makes sense. I completely agree.
@@TheDude044 haha good one, I'm sorry they did that to you
@@jaemotoo I feel worse for you but thanks
ah I saw the inferno B boost smoke and tried it found that it doesn't block out the person on top, this explained that.
Partly how I found out too. These updates have been hard to track :)
I just found out that this also effected mirage stairs smoke, I thought I threw a bad smoke, but it was just too low.@@CrusheryCS
Last question sounded pretty rhetorical.
...but if I was to answer, the real answer is that we don't know.
Look, the smokes in CS2 are very different. We have ways to displace the smoke too, don't forget. The meta will contine to change and evolve according to what valve want the game to be, and they want it to be as accessible as possible. That means no nerdy bullshit that will cause people to uninstall. That said, there are still plenty of other bullshit problems like inconsistent hitreg and cheaters.
knowing that we can blow off the smoke with nade to catch someone off guard, I'd say this is a huge improvement