HDR Battle: 96 Zone FALD vs Edge Lit Dimming
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2022
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HDR Battle: 96 Zone FALD vs Edge Lit Dimming
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We'll update this comparison with OLED and FALD with more zones in the future as we review more displays
Is there a benefit to streaming in higher quality than the monitors can display? like if you have a 1440p monitor to stream the content in 4k, because of compression over the internet.
@@creach34 Higher quality increases bitrate which helps all resolutions.
Maybe a good reason to review the new LG OLED Monitor (UltraGear UHD)? I think it's full title is the 48GQ900, but I could be wrong. It's personally been peaking my interest even with the size, but there doesn't seem to be any review or technical coverage of it yet. X.x
The next two years seems like will see more OLED panels as monitor options - between Samsung Displays QD-OLED but also that Japan Display eLEAP OLED too. At least I'm hoping those come to the 27" and 32" monitors.
@@krandeloy According to a recent TFT Central article, LG is planning a flat 27" 1440p WRGB OLED panel (they presumably can't miniaturize the subpixels enough for 4K), though this probably isn't coming out until late this year or early next.
The 96-zone FALD honestly does better than I would've expected. I've seen 300+ zone panels come out looking worse. Impressive stuff from Sony here.
I completely agree. For what it is, I was rather impressed given that the price premium for this isn't crazy.
27 inch display probably helps
In the TV space, Sony is known to have the best FALD algorithm out there.
Pair Sony's algorithm with good 4K zone panel and it will be very hard to distinguish from OLED
Strange. And what monitor is that? 384 zone jave pg27uq and acer x27. And I had both. Pg27uq I'm using right now. And it is much betttter than this one with 96 zones
Kudos for illustrating edge-lit vs local zone dimming. I suppose it is understood more clearly this way!
With monitors are now beginning to have FALD, zone count battle is just getting started. One of the most underrated comparison is how the algorithms for these react to certain scene which would separate the quality of the array vs just putting as much zone in there which can hurt image and latency. It would be cool to see more of it in future analysis. Keep up the good work!
Edge-lit vs 96 zone vs mini led vs OLED
I think this would be a FANTASTIC video if your up to it to really showcase the differences in current tech.
"mini led" is just FALD with smaller leds, you could make a 96 zone FALD display with mini leds if you wanted.
What you probably want is a comparison between 96 zones and a much higher zone count FALD display.
@@SUR3ND3RNL
Yup, definitely get that and I should have specified above. I've owned the spectrum, low count and high count FALD tvs, OLED tvs, and now the AW3423DW. I can personally say that for the $$$, the spectrum local dimming is awful (not to include the other million issues with that monitor).
What I would love to see is HUB compare the Spectrum vs Inzone vs PG32UQX vs AW3423DW.
I think most people put WAY too much emphasis in how bright a panel can get vs how it accomplished this.
Either way, loved this video! 😁
@@SUR3ND3RNL Pretty sure LED is generally just 1 panel so mini-LED is quite a difference in tech. Mini-LED also tends to have far more dimming zones as a result compared to LED displays. Still, the first Mini-LEDs on the market still did a far worse job than good LED TV's in terms of dimming. I think it's a shame that Sony killed 4K for their high end for their LED TV's along with 65 inch. If you want a high-end LED from them these days, you're forced to buy a 75+ inch 8K TV. I think 2019 was the last year they offered a 4K LED Master Series TV (maybe 2020, but not sure).
Current Mini-LEDs are doing a good job. I think I'll be using my TV for like 3 or so more years before I'm upgrading. Since OLED won't last for me and since MicroLED still won't be affordable by then, it'll probably a Mini-LED. Might not be a Sony since they seem to be lagging behind in several key features, despite offering the best image quality for movies both for their (Mini-)LED TV's and their OLED TV's. While I'm fine with 4K/60 for my current TV, I am going to get a TV with a high and variable 4K refresh rate for my next TV and it remains to be seen if Sony's will be good enough in regards to those things in 2-3 years (I don't see myself buying the newest TV when I can get a previous model for half of the price that's still only like 9 months old anyway).
I have a 2016 edge lit Samsung TV and I wish you could see how black the black bars are on this TV. If you walked into the room and saw it at first you might think it's a OLED because of how good the black bars are on this TV. The only thing I can say is the TV is not as bright as the new Samsung TV'S but I don't care about super bright TV's anyway I want sharp contrast and excellent picture quality.
Again, it depends. My IPS Viewsonic has worse picture quality than my Dell TN monitor.
The Sony is an example of why pure specs don’t tell the whole story. I snagged this monitor for $500 and don’t regret it at all. The difference coming from a 1440p edge-lit IPS was immediately noticeable. However an OLED monitor was only marginally better.
Excelent video! i finaly understood how edge lit panels work and how brigtness is distributed around the zones. Also with FALD system i now understand it's limitations and advantages.
Thank you for making me a smarter person ;)
Thanks for the time you put in. Really appreciate and enjoy it.
Very interesting video. The pause at 16:00 for the Christmas lights show *very* clearly what dimming zones do: upper dark zone vs lower one vs the right.
Overall I would point out that the whole video was a big long and repetitive for my taste. No specific segment was bad, it's just I could have learned the same things in a few minutes total with the original explanation and 3 or 4 faster examples. I think it could have been scripted for half of it without losing any information, and still not being too fast or dense.
My favorite movie is about the white square running through a black tunnel. Glad I have my 1000+ zone monitor.
waiting for Neo G8 review =P.
Yeah
@@riba2233 and Neo g7
😛😛
Fantastic comparison. I hope you'll do something similar to showcase the differences (or perceived lack thereof?) between the Alienware QD-OLED monitor and the upcoming AOC Agon Pro AG344UXM mini LED monitor with a whopping 1152 dimming zones.
Mini led 34 are in release and they are so underrated, doesn't exist only the qdoled (that lack a lot in brightness), i got an agon ag353ucg (same panel pg35vq x35) and i'm waiting for mini led
@@FlaXDeR_ I think FALD is the next big monitor thing. It’s going to be OLED at the very niche ultra high end, mini led high end and like ~100 zone FALD at the middle tier. The question is when. CES was canceled and barely any new mid-high end monitors came out this year. 🤔 if they announce them at CES next year we are a long ways out from an actual release. Shame especially w 4000 series right around the corner. I want a good long term 1440p monitor.
@@atrium12 LG are going to release a 1440p 240hz OLED monitor
@@blessedred like an actual monitor or a TV and when
@@atrium12 I'm not convinced. When we're talking about gaming monitors it's far more complicated and requires alot more procesing to properly control all those backlight zones that only gets harder at higher refresh rates and even harder when in vrr the more zones the more complicated again it gets all this complicated stuff if we want it done properly costs alot of money which is why people were surprised that the new qd oled was such a reasonable price because the only good HDR monitors to that point we're triple the price. Newer oleds are only getting brighter and brighter and risk of burn in being a non issue at this point we're as we're mini leds can get better they will never be able to compete with oled for light control even if we get ones with 10 thousand zones " won't happen" that's still way less than the 4 million u get on a 4k oled for example, then theres the advantage of pixel response and near perfect viewing angles that LCD displays just can't and never will match.
Very impressed by how much only 96 zones improved the contrast ratio in content with normal lighting conditions. Would love to see content like 96 vs 200 zones etc.
Is it a good idea to use FALD for gaming or can they lag behind? Could you test the response times for local dimming to see if this is a valid concern?
Great video Tim. It's nice to actually see the differences in action.
love to see things like this get attention. Hope to see more FALD displays in the future!
Great work and impressive comparison. I’m excited to try out my M9 when it arrives tomorrow.
Simply cant wait for OLED monitors to become a "real" thing, 4k 120hz+ HDR 600 (at least) 32 inch to 38 inch. That would be my end game for the forseeable future
Sadly 1440p gets no love. It's either 1080p or 4k
I think it's most peoples end game. We just have to be very, very patient.
@@592Johno With the rise of reconstruction techniques, 4k is very much viable to run with a monitor, assuming that you have a decently powerful GPU. Just DLSS or FSR up to 4k from a lower resolution and it looks good enough
@@Sackboy612 you'll need at least a 3080 class GPU for every single generation to keep running 4k at higher settings as games get more demanding. Well for AAA games
I just want to ask that is that glooming very visible in a Lit room?
Would love to see a detailed explanation as to how FALD systems affect transition speeds for higher refresh rates. From one of the monitor review on HU I understand that there are some weird effects and I'd like to understand them better
Thank you, Tim. This was a very good video!
Great comparison! I look forward to you guys reviewing the Odyssey Neo G8 with its ~1k zone FALD and comparing it against the competition!
Very insightful, great analysis!
The Inzone M9 has been sitting on my desk since I snapped it up on sale- beautiful monitor for both gaming and productivity. Great coverage as always guys!
How does it look with FALD and SDR on?
Great comparison video! FALD really should be the standard and edge lit needs to die off if not just be used in the more budget oriented monitors only.
@@inkedsleeve4226 Never said they weren’t. But the issue is they are also in the premium monitors as well.
@@inkedsleeve4226 lmfao what? You don’t need a black background to notice the benefits of FALD. We are talking about HDR here. Premium monitors advertising HDR400 with edge lit dimming is rubbish. This applies to scenes that are dark as well and removing/reducing the amount of blooming as was shown in the video.
And that’s false. In the real world, seeing blacks not actually black is definitely noticeable regardless if you are looking at a black background or something that has darker areas in a scene which is being shown brighter than it actually is.
@@HazzyDevil To me edge lit dimming is an abomination that only exists to put the HDR marketing buzzword on the box. It's visually less disturbing to have a global backlight with less local contrast rather than those glowing bands.
@@inkedsleeve4226 you literally have no idea what you’re talking about. I’ve played horror games on both an OLED (which is taking FALD to the extreme in the sense each pixel is it’s own zone) and an edge lit monitor. The difference is miles apart. You are actually trolling to think people can only tell a difference using still frames only. Sounds like it’s that’s just specific to you and not having the ability to notice the difference.
@@PainterVierax yep exactly. I mean HDR400 in of itself is flawed and is worse than standard SDR.
I am loving this new monitor channel!
Thank you!!!
I would add the QD-Oled to comparison just to further illustrate what would pretty much perfect HDR would be
perfect hdr at 250 nit susteined... AHAHHAHAHAHA
@@FlaXDeR_ all oled panels have low sustained brightness lol that’s how the technology works
@@balraj8288 qdoled lack a lot in brightness in every level, instead a pg35vq (that i have) has 800 nits is 100% susteined... The qdoled is shit in brght scene HDR
@@FlaXDeR_ I guess you like staring at full white images for some reason.
@@FlaXDeR_ LG C2 has 160 nits full screen but that’s the best hdr thing in the market. For hdr, it’s the peak brightness and individual pixels rather than the whole screen with sustained brightness
Thank you for this amazing video
This is fantastic content Tim. As a graphics nut monitor technology and quality is very important to me so I quite enjoy this kind of content
I think a great video idea would be to compare how MacOS and Windows handle displays. Like how they handle resolutions, colors, and so on. Also do a collaboration with Blur Busters guys, even an interview would be fun.
3:25 the biggest change is the light bleeding from the edge (bottom left) completely disappearing on a FALD. I'd take an old fully backlit gray but uniform blacks over edge bleed anytime.
Ordered the M9 this week -- can't wait!
Enjoyed the video. Cheers.
Great explainer. I could live with 96 dimming zones I reckon.
Tim, great video! So glad you started this channel. Definitely in the market for a 144hz 1000hdr monitor but need better pricing. This channel will help me a great deal
Just a tip for anyone using FALD displays (or even edge lit) but having bias lighting on the rear of the monitor makes an absolute world of difference for enhancing black levels. Any usb RGB strip will do the job particularly for situations where there's not a lot of ambient light in the room.
Bias lighting in general is a very good thing, with how it reduces difference in illumination and thus eye strain. At least if it's not using a cheaper low-HZ, strobing RGB driver, in which case it can make it worse unless you make sure to pick less flickery colors...
great comparison!
Great content 👍
Cool video!
Cheers Tim.
Great work Tim. You are my go to for monitor reviews as the depth you go into and your knowledge on the subject is top notch. That being said I have a question as your opinion is invaluable. Money not being much of an an issue ( it is, especially in this economy, but that's my issue and my decision to sell another kidney or not....) so, I currently own an asus pg35vq, my question is, is the Alienware qd-oled a worthy upgrade for hdr content or is my asus close enough that it's nearly impossible to justify as it's more of a side grade? You have worked with both, and even a side by side video would be awesome although I understand that request would maybe cover 1% of your viewer base, unless it's as a technology comparison showcase. Your opinion is invaluable sir I hope you can find the time to answer
Thanks for this comparison Tim. Would love to get a lesson on this channel for HDR tone mapping and the use of HGIG. How to best set roll offs in Calman for HDR displays etc.
nice video, super happy for this new channel. I'm hoping to see a deep dive into sRGB software emulation on both sides some day. (qualité comparisons? limitations? implementations? windowed ? fullscreen ? setup procedure with calibration before or after ....)
this video we hear you clicking or tapping on an input peripheral, kinda distracting.
Would be great, if possible, to hear your thoughts on the recent "gaming" TVs (the non-Oled ones with 120 and 144Hz refresh rates). For example the 43" QN90B - 4K, 144Hz VRR, MiniLED.
While I no longer need a monitor, I do enjoy your presentation and tech updates. My monitor ASUS PG279 which I've replaced with a 4K TV. For the main games I play, the TV response time is fine. You clearly showed the difference between FALD and edge lighting (perhaps even beat it to death).
9:12 the green thing in the middle looks clearer/more in focus and with better colour though, which actually goes for the whole picture. I know it's through my screen, but still.
Fantastic video!
I have a related question for the next monitor Q&A; how do those insanely expensive reference monitors that can do per pixel local dimming without using an OLED panel work? Is it similar to the TV that Linus showed recently that had a secondary 1080p overlay panel purely for local dimming of the 4K panel?
Funny thing with edge lit displays is when you watch a movie with white subtitles and the whole screen lights up, which is a terrible experience.
best monitor channel
Such an informative video, I don’t think I would replace my PG279Q unless the panel is OLED or has real HDR.
In grey areas it produces many halo effects with the local dimming high. Inzone m9
Great video, I would like to see similiar comparsion with oled (42 and 48 inch lgs for example) and maybe with mini led of macbook
Great comparison. However where I live, the only listing puts its price at twice the amount of non-HDR 4K 144Hz monitors like the M28U, and on par with the Alienware QD-OLED (although the Alienware is out of stock).
Tim's circles are definitely potatoe shaped 👀 Excellent video though and I learnt somethink I wasn't 100% clued up upon. 🙏
Can you make a short video about the future of monitors, like what to expect and when are the big releases usually
They already can make 1000 FALD screens, but they acting like 96 FALD is so super next gen...
Sony needs to pay you, I just ordered two M9’s after watching this video. Great stuff
I hope you are working on the Odyssey Neo G8. I really want to see your take on it
Very nice Mr Schiesser
@DctrGizmo
1 second ago
I was about to pull the trigger on the LG 27 UltraGear because they were on sale but I didn't because FALD looks so good! Hopefully we'll get more of these monitors later this year.
My TV from LG had Edge lit dimming, and I just turned that straight off, it was more an annoyance than nice to have. the blacks in the areas it was on was much more grey with the dimming setting on than they were with the setting off.. maybe an illusion of some areas beeing much more black from light off, but it just looked bad..
I'm looking forward to an eventual more in depth review of Samsung and MSI's take on the QD-Oled monitor space.
I would love to see a comparison of the fald vs the new QD-Oled dell has.
Aby idea when OLED gaming monitors will reach the 27" screen size?
What a comprehensive comparison! I'd love to know what HDR monitor can bring to different kind of user. For example, if I play older titles, is hdr completely useless? Does the game itself have to support HDR?
Great video, nice to see the stark differences between the two techniques. As a thought, I think the video could have done with being a bit shorter. There was a lot of repetition in the images
At the pauses Do you think you can switch the sides of the fald snd edge lit screen. When I was looking at the middle I was always seeing the left side side of fald compared against the right side of edge lit. Which is kinda apple n oranges
This is the type of content that this space and consumers desperately need. Understanding HDR without seeing it is very very hard and even if you get it the market is just filled with so much marketing bs that average joes end losing out on things they could actually afford. Hope to see some more vs style vids!!
Is there any plans to review the MSI MAG274QRX? It looks interesting on paper but a review would be super appreciated!
Finally one to show others where it’s at, around 4X the zones hopefully can come down to this price point. Sony usually don’t use a lot of Zones even in their TVs and instead boast about their implementation of it. I know Oled panels are right around the corner but I want this to continue if quality can increase fast enough and complete at the $700 region. I think TCL prove it’s doable
Excellent work showing this. The difference is more than clear. HDR has got to be one of the most falsely advertised feature on monitors, it's so frustrating. And they get away with it again and again.
Giant upgrade from edge lit wow
Should be noted that a lot of these will probably only apply to IPS though. I am very sure that 96 zones would be plenty enough on a bright VA where you don't need to rely on local dimming as much to get a higher contrast (provided that the FALD algorythm is good)
I just bought the AOC G4309VX/D, no local dimming and it's pretty decent HDR.
One thing I'm trying to find is a good side by side comparison of HDR vs SDR for SDR users. Most that I see available aren't very good, feel like they're enhanced through fake editing, or are outdated by 5 years. Bonus points for comparing the different KINDS of HDR like HDR 600, 800, 1000
I've got the Spectrum, and I admit with HDR turned on, you definitely notice the zones more, but not as much with HDR off. That being said, I'm gonna try to be patient and wait for microLED. Once that's out, I might do a full refresh with monitors.
See you in like 2040 lmao. They can't even make microled for big screens, it will take a long ass time for them to be able to make a 32 inch monitor and lower, and then for it to be at attainable prices, good luck with that.
There is an extreme defect with the LG34GK950F-B monitors! Many many users experience failure just outside of the warranty window with almost no success getting support from LG. Please address this!
Could you do a comparison between this 96 zones to a monitor with 500 and 1000 zones?
Love
Can you give a review or thoughts on the new LG Ultragear Gaming Monitor 27GQ40W-B?
A comparison between the new Alienware OLED and the Samsung neo G8 or G9 would be good to see the difference between OLED and Mini LED
the voice over section gave me khan academy nostalgia for the worst memories possible
Would you guys consider reviewing qn90b 43" as a monitor? It's one of the best lcd miniled tvs of 2022 and st that size it'd be interesting to see if it's good for gaming.
to me the deal breaker for non-OLED panels is not the blooming, but rather that grey tint you get when you get into a dark area and there's any source of illumination. That whole grey ambient background is immersion-breaking for me
I just bought the AOC G4309VX/D, it's edge lit HDR 1000 with no local dimming.
I don't see the same blooming issues that seem to crop up in these IPS panels.
Though it does seem to be a little quirky with Dynamic contrast on as it sometimes decides to dim when it shouldn't, but other than that the HDR experience has been literally brilliant.
Edge lit is worse than no local dimming. But no local dimming is also just no hdr.
@@Chris-xe5ts
Bullshit.
This is definitely a HDR monitor. The difference between HDR and SDR is significantly noticeable.
Could local dimming improve the HDR experience, probably, but shitty local dimming probably wouldn't.
@@magottyk HDR is about contrast. Without local dimming or self lit pixels you have a mediocre contrast, there is no way around it.
@@Chris-xe5ts
Local dimming zones not listed in specs, but there is a mention in the marketing spiel of the HDR section that it has local dimming.
Done some further testing and finally noticed local dimming activity which appears to be 16 zones similar to the edge lit monitor Tim tested, but I had to use a 0-1000 nits white big bold text on black test to notice it and any blooming.
It does do HDR without the windows toggle, but to enable display HDR 1000 you need the windows toggle and 60Hz.
The local dimming is mostly unnoticeable when watching various HDR content.
SDR is also excellent, but that's what you'd expect from a VA panel.
I’m so glad I got an cx oled over an eve spectrum
Yes indeed the Inzone M9 is an entry level HDR display and that's fine. But since price here in Europe or in my area is the same price as the Alienware QD-OLED display, it just doesn't make sense. It's 1300e which is same as that Alienware monitor. I don't understand this. In the US it is 899 dollars (865€) which is actually the right price it should be.
You can get the AOC mini-led with 500 zones for less.
Would like to see VA vs IPS, both edge-lit, to see if the ~3x CR of the VA helps mitigate the drawbacks of edge-lit to some degree.
I have the AOC G4309VX/D and while I don't have a good basis of first hand comparison, I don't see the same level of blooming issues as seen with these IPS HDR monitors.
I'd probably need to see 96 zone dimming in real life before making a purchase. I feel like Edge lit, although crap, may feel less patchy than low end zone dimming. I feel like for zone dimming to work well it needs Mini led style array e.g. 1000 zones (or Oled).
I hope you guys get your hands on the Samsung Neo G8
Odyssey neo g7 with 1196 zones 👀
G'day Tim,
That was really great, 🤔but I think at my end it would be better to see the differences if I watched it on my LG C1 Tv instead of my $200AUD 1080p Monitor, so I'll give the video another watch on the Tv tomorrow 😁
What's with the blooming in the bottom left of the Eve Spectrum e.g. 12:37 ? Bad panel or ambient light?
I have a question. Is the dimming technology only used in hdr content or is it always working in the background?
Always, it's the way the displays function
is it because I'm watching on an SDR monitor that the brighter high lights destroy detail in the 96 zone image?
For true HDR, you really do need OLED or FALD backlight. Otherwise, it's nearly impossible to reach the contrast levels that HDR affords the viewer. This video demonstrates that very well.
we need a odyssey g8 neo review after this 😁
In the same monitor, is the response time affected when reducing the resolution from 4k to 1440p
Can you do a samsung odyessy g8 vs sony
Inzone m9
why haven't you guys reviewed the odyssey g8 yet? it's been available for a while now. want to purchase but usually wait until I've seen your guys' reviews
Hello , do you recommend buying the Dell S2721DGF at this time or the LG 27GP850-B ??? , thnks
Now we have that AOC miniLED with 200+ FALD
I actually find the blooming more distracting than uniformly overlit blacks, so a low zone count FALD is worse than no FALD. 96 doesn't cut it.