If you are tempted by the 120v AC output of the power banks, bear in mind, you can buy a 1000 watt inverter for about $200. That sounds like a lot, but if you're comparison shopping a $150 deep-cycle marine battery + a $200 inverter, vs. a $1000 power bank, it suddenly looks pretty good.
I paid $146 for my 1500W 24V Pure Sine Wave Inverter and it's been absolutely rock solid for me so far, even using it for boiling water has been perfect.
Yup, DIY is actually quite a contender here. I'm actually building a case with 56x21700@4.8ah cells (with some room for 7 or 14 more if need be) of the supposedly tesla model 3 variety on the cheap about 2.2usd per cell, 500w meanwell PSU, 500w pure sine inverter, 50v@15a lab power supply thing, 2x ISDT chargers and 2x100W USB-PD chargers and some other bits and bobs (actual case, fans, huge clunky switches rated 100A+, other switches, 6,10,12,14 AWG wiring, current clamps, BMSes, fuses e.t.c.) and all that for about 630USD. Granted I have a 3d printer and a spot welder (of the initial run kWeld variety), but overall you can have a ~1kwh pack with a ton of optional outputs, self charging (via one of the ISDT's and built in 500W supply, will also be able to basically run on external power too) and whatever else your soul desires (like I might put a 70-100W soldering iron in there) in a relatively portable case (14.5x11.8x7.6 inches) for a decent price.
worse than this, after 100 cycles a lead acid battery has 80% of it's original capacity generally. Also deep cycle lead should be discharged to 50%, 80% DoD is gonna get you a cycle count of 150-500 before it's only got 50% capacity remaining. His numbers were a bit off, there. Lead acid sucks. Tried it for a trailer for two years.
@@JPTulo Yeah if you're talking about lead acid, that's one of the few things good about it. Society has gotten really good at recycling lead acid; the rates are in the upper 90%s if I recall.
Ya I have lots of batteries and lifepo4 is the best out there for most things but I think their 4000 and 7000 are inflated and those are not real world environment they are lab conditions and I assume they are established because it's probably discharged at like .2c so 5 hours for 100% and 4 for 80% but then charged at a similar rate so like 8 hours full cycle so over 3 and a half years no wait that was the 80% discharge but the 100% discharge number of cycles so 7000 over 6 years of testing and even 100% its 4.5 years and even with several going you'd kinda want to validate your test but I'm just saying it's probably established and probably inflated
I just purchased a Din Drones box, and its totally amazing! It is very small and compact and fits nicely in my backpack. I'd feel comfortable hiking any trail with it's low weight. Seems like I can charge all day long at my flying spot (30 of my 6s lipo batteries easily), also It charges back up so quickly. I just use the same pocket charger as I use on my flight pac's when I get home. It absolutely changed my life.... "10 of 10" IMO
The issue when field charging I have found is that if you want to charge 4-6s batteries, 12-13v from a car/deep cycle is not gonna cut it. You really need at least 17v better yet 24v going to your charging system, (as long as it can take it). Try charging a 6s Lipo with a 12v powered charger, it has to scale up to the higher voltage, which limits its amp output. This is the issue when field charging, so I found that buying more flight batts and even another charger for home is a good way to go. I had 11 flight Lipo's and a 4 port charger, this worked very well for years for me. And you probably only need another - say 4 Lipos to have enough depending on how many you already have. Generators are limited also - our 240v 2400w generators put out 10 Amps max. If you try charging 2 x 5000mah 4s packs for your FPV plane you are already restricted!. You guys in USA your Genny's are 110-120v? what's the Watts output, how many amps will it give?, it wont be alot. A deep cycle lead acid battery - 12v issue there, get 2 and run 24v charger. $1000 Li Ion same issue as a lead acid. Not enough Amps. My conclusion is - buy 2 x 12v deep cycle batts run them in series or one 24v marine battery - and run a 24v charger from them. Put it in a box all neat etc. its quiet and efficient. And your gonna pay for this anyway, none of the options are cheap here, so might as well do that. If you have 2 x 12v batteries you can use a car 12v car charger to charge them in parallel, which you may already have, negating the need for a 24v charger. Like has been mentioned here in the comments - using a Big Lipo is a pain in the ass as getting it back to storage if you havent used it all will take ages. Li Ion and Lead acid will just sit there till the next time you charge them. Same as your Goggle batts.
Your generators calculation is a bit off 😆. Charging 2 5000mah 4s batteries at 1c charge rate requires 10 amps at 16.8 volts, that's 168 Watts or less than 1 tenth of your generators output!
2 - 12.8V 50Ah LiFEPO4's in series @ 25.4V @ 50A max cont = 1250W. Use RC connectors to quick swap to parallel to charge them @12.8V with RC charger off AC in LiFE mode - or if you have an 8S charger). A car charger isn't ideal, different charging profiles.
Relion for the win... having a fly day, sharing charging with everyone, keeping your cell phone charged, bring a flat screen TV to broadcast flights in real time, a fan, or whatever hahaha.... it just brings with it so many conveniences and power access that make it worth it in my opinion. I'm sure there are others that do similar, but it's the one we have and we love it. The other day Bubby was able to roll up with NO charged packs, and still fly all day without any issues, and without me having to keep my car on so he can charge off of it. I also appreciate that Relion is investing in our FPV community, so I'd pick them over a comparable competitor. We didn't pay for ours, but I absolutely would. In fact, I'm buying one for my Dad ❤
I have the RELiON RB20 - 12.8v 20Ah - costs roughly $275. Weighs 6lbs and fits in my Ethix backpack that way I can field charge even if I have to hike to a spot. 👌
@@skyystrider8241 about 7 of my 1550mah, 6s packs could be charged, but just say 6 packs to be conservative. not worth the weight unless youre gathering portable solar as well
We have recently started using a generator at my field. In practice you have 3 - 5 pilots multicharging off of one generator. Generator to extention chord to 3-5 chargers. The generator has wheels and a handle. Everyone brings a charger. We have used deep cycle and expensive power banks - they can't handle the amp draw - about an hour in everyone's charger starts getting errors/resets. I think the reason for this is when the chargers starts getting less than 12 volts they start flipping out. So when you say - hey I can charge down 600 watt hours - you need to understand when the chargers stop working - you might hit 11.99 volts after 100 watt hours.
Fantastic video, Joshua! Thanks a lot! 😃 And it's always good to remember that those battery technologies are getting cheaper. Because of the EVs, that demands lots of them... So... Who knows about the future. 😊 Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Here's a question for thought though: How much will have battery technology improved by the time your cheaper option would have broken? Will buying as tech improves vs buying for the long haul pay off.
That boils down to the value of your life/time. Are you willing to let perfectly good flying days pass you by while you wait for battery prices to drop to some imaginary benchmark?
@@GoatZilla Im not suggesting you wait. Im wondering if buying the cheaper option now, knowing itll deplete sooner would be outweighed by the better technology available at the time.
@@BeefIngot The same calculation still applies. "Better technology available at the *time*". You're letting time slip by while you wait for something that isn't guaranteed to arrive. Time is one resource you never get back, so that needs to be factored into your payoff as well.
@@BeefIngot yeah you may pay less now but if the newest technology is still pretty expensive then you'll just end up paying more, or not... It's just the gamble you would take.
I have that little generator, have had it for years and it works great. Year after year, fires right up, have never had a single problem. I've ran my refrigerator and TV off that little genny during power outages as well but it is mainly my rc field genny. It's quiet, always starts and is cheap to operate.
I think anything that is an easy plug and play with a solar panel is a win for me. The relion or the other power stations looks great. Been thinking of going with Jackery, but I haven't done much research on it.
I run 2 deep cycle batteries from walmart charging my equipment at home. I sometimes bring it out to the field if I am flying all day with my friends. I normally discharge them down to 11.6v and i have a solar panel with a mppt to charge the battery. I multiuse the battery actually, other than charging my flying stuff I also use it too power my laptop, cable modem, router, and lights when my power goes out. Spent in total with 1 200w solar panel, a renogy 30amp mppt and 2 large deep cycle battery was under $500
@@definingslawek4731 I got my picture setup somewhere when I started so I gotta look for it. But I just followed will prowse milkcrate build ruclips.net/video/4ypDwMYO1rU/видео.html I changed my setup with the components with what I could get like instead of the milk crate I used a harbor freight handtruck and some planks to lay down the 2 heavy ass batteries. Theres also a few solar power youtubers that also build a handtruck power generator. I kinda mashed their builds together.
I bought a Rocksolar 222wh Portable power station and it works amazing for what I need. It was on sale for $139.99 on Amazon. I only charge 4s 750mah and 2s 550mah batteries though.. but I can fly all day with no problem.
@@nullx8 How do you figure...? I never said mine was better, or that it even compared to the relion... all I said was mine works great for me. Also, I don't need 3 days worth of power when I go flying... so like I said, mine works great for what I need.
@@JP-qq2kn not sure you actually addressing me, my comment was only about cost. hmm i can't find the comment where anyone said anything about better or worse .. maybe its been deleted ?
THIS IS HILARIOUS to me. I literally JUST had this problem. My solution was the Jackery 240 and a solar panel. But we also go camping and do other things as well. So its not JUST a FPV purchase. it should be multifaceted.
I'm using a 200w solar suitcase to keep a 12v 25Ah sealed gel topped off and have never had an issue flying all day. Unlimited energy access and comes in handy for more than just drone stuff.
I made a 4s10p pack from 5,000mah 21700 Tesla Cells and it come out to 5,600wh per dollar (@800 Cycles)... I spent about $120 to build it... DIY for the win..!!
You do have to factor in the time it took you to make and time to learn to make without blowing yourself up (if you don't know how to be careful building your own pack, don't build your own).
Another quirky option if you can park near where you fly, is to replace your regular starting battery with a big deep cycle battery. Turns out a deep cycle battery will start any modern car just fine. I've been running one in my 4runner for several years and haven't had any issues starting, even at sub zero temps. One challenge though is sometimes the battery terminals are reversed for a given size battery so may need longer leads. But, I also have another deep cycle in the back of my vehicle as it's just a lot more convenient there, and the main issue I have with it, is getting it fully charged and keeping it topped up without dragging it back into the house every time. I've been trying to find a way to charge it quickly (10-15+A @ 13.5V) whenever I'm driving and keep it *fully* topped up. I've tried a Towed Battery Charger (meant to supply power from an RV to a car you're towing behind it), but it charges too slow and doesn't charge to full voltage. I've also tried a solar charge controller powered from my trailer plug which seems to be able to charge at up to 15A, and claims to go to full voltage (13.5V) but mine doesn't, and it has a constant parasitic draw (powered from the charged battery rather than the source). If anyone has solved this problem, keeping a deep cycle *fully* charged from your vehicle, only when it's running, let me know what you did. What I usually end up doing is dragging my regular A/C 12V charger out side on a long extension cord to charge my deep cycle, but then I have to deal with it whenever I want to go somewhere.
This is exactly the kind of little annoyance that a lead acid battery has, that a LiFe solves. You pay a lot for the privilege of a lighter and faster charging battery. You csn charge the Outlaw at up to 30 amps!
@@JoshuaBardwell I can (and do) charge my big lead acid batteries at 20A too using my iCharger 308DUO. The challenge I'm trying to solve is finding a way to automatically charge the deep cycle while leaving it in the vehicle, connected. I have 13V@20A of switched power at the trailer towing harness. Switching the standalone deep cycle to LiIon or LiFe doesn't yet solve that problem. If there were a hobby charger that just started charging on a preset program the moment you turn it on, that would be ideal. That's why simply replacing the starting battery with a deep cycle actually works pretty well. It gets charged relatively quickly while driving. But yes, I've still drained it after charging too many Lipos in a row.
Great topic - super video. FWIW, if (like me) you (dear reader) use EGO 56V yard tools, EGO makes an inverter with a 120V/1.25A/150W output that you can attach to one of your EGO batteries. Then, plug in your LiPo charger, and charge away. Perhaps not great for efficiency, but since I already owned several EGO 56V 5 and 7.5AH batteries for my tools, the $79/US (on-sale for Fathers Day) inverter was a low-cost (and easy to handle) solution. Jason also provided sage comments -- it is easy to simply own more LiPOs. I typically take 12-15 of various sizes with me when I go to the field (I like to fly for a couple of hours).
in my early days of FPV when I'd take my little 2S Kingkong quads out onto the hills, I would charge the packs back up from my ebike battery with an iSDT Q6. It's a 7S 10,000mAh battery in a 7S2P configuration, I know this because I re-celled it myself with 14x 5000mAh lipo cells from Hobbyking.
I've got an allpowers power station, 372 watt hours. Bought it for $200. It is now $239 on Amazon. It is a bunch of lithium ion batteries with Bluetooth monitoring and bms and outputs multiple ways in a nice case, pure sine wave. Also have their 100w folding solar panel. I don't fly long enough up until now to take it into the field, but it would keep me rolling if needed. Actually bought it for Florida hurricane season. I also tested charging lipos on it and it works well. Won't take as many charge cycles as this one, but if the day comes, I'm gonna try to take it apart and replace the batteries. Make sure to use Joshua's amazon link if you take a look at it.
Best video for some time now, thanks :) You forgot that some chargers need >15V to be able to chage 6S LiPos, this should be considered Also I would love to see a comparison between maybe a ~250Wh LiIon and LiPo, because this is a size I can fit into my bag For 3 years now I have been using the same 12Ah 6S LiPo, my ISDTs can charge 6S with this and it carries ~8 charges for my 5" racer, or ~25 charges for my 3" racers or 50 charges for my 4S 2" or 120 charges for my 2S 2" and pretty much a week of whoop charges ;) This in combination with 2 chargers and 3 hq racepacks is what I have been using, racepacks are trash after 1 year anyway : / But I am considering replacing it with a LiIon at some point, for peace of mind reasons, but the weight might be an important point
I think any of those LIPO/LION/LiFe power stations the value is cross use besides field charging. They make a hell of a lot more sense if you're camping, live in hurricane territory and don't want a full on generator, etc. If you can use it for other things, it makes a hell of a lot more sense. For me, otherwise, I almost always kill packs in crashes before I kill packs from age/recharging them. IE, buying a field charging pack doesn't actually save me money because I'm going to kill those packs before they would have died from "natural causes" anyway. So I just buy more packs. I wait for CNHL direct sales, and stock up on $15 6s 1100-1250mah packs.
I agree that cross-use is a big advantage of the power bank solutions. With the Outlaw, I could bring a box fan with me and keep cool, or something like that. It's easy to run an LCD panel for spectator or basically anything you would normally need a generator for, without the hassle and noise of a generator. The counter-argument is that you COULD spend about $200 on a 1000 watt inverter and connect it to any of the other battery solutions and end up in more or less the same place.
You can purchase LiFePO4 cells on AliExpress. I'm thinking of purchasing 24 cells for $93.03. These are 3.2V LiFePO4 6.5Ah cells. This works out to less than 19 cents per Wh. The ReLiOn battery is about a dollar per Wh. Of course the AliExpress cells will be a lot more work to turn into a useful power pack but I think it will be a fun project. The AliExpress cells can take 3 months to ship so it's not a good option if you want something to use this summer. Thanks for interesting video Joshua.
I got that sportsman generator for $150 on some Home Depot sale several years ago. Would never use it as a field charger power supply but it is great for running my desktop pc, stereo, and fan during outages.
If portability is not a factor perhaps a marine grade deep cycle. These can weigh well over 100lbs, but only cost a few hundred and would probably cost even less $/WH while delivering far more WH/$ over their lifespan. (who wants to move a 120lb battery?) The Relion might be a great option if you also have other charging or remote power needs, especially if paired with solar.
I think you're spot on with the pricing. If you're doing commercial work or if you have a decent hobby budget then it would be great to have. Otherwise for mere mortals like most of us that money would be better spent on quad parts/spare batteries. The problem I have with the car charging method is that you can't fly while you charge if you're solo. Someone has to watch the car otherwise it might get stolen while you're flying. I just fly close to my house and charge while I watch TV and then head back out if I want to fly more.
I’ve transitioned all of my gas lawn equipment over to the EGO lineup that Lowes carries. Currently, I have 980wh of energy on my shelf (10ah, 5ah, & 2.5ah packs). Not sure if you’ve seen it but the EGO brand sells a 2,000w Power station that you can hot swap the packs onto. Its a little bit on the pricey side, not a complete package with the requirement to purchase an external solar brick to use solar, and no xt or ec connectors for hobbyist use, but it is interesting. I haven’t purchase this yet and don’t know why I’m holding out. The Ecoflow Riverpro also looks like a fair competitor and value. I predict that Ego will come out on top in the future. The big box stores have embraced them. They already have a solid grasp of people in their ecosystem and it only makes sense that if you have that energy on your shelf for all your lawn equipment, might as well put it to use. The arc shaped (for surface area cooling) vented and rugged design of their 56v packs is stunning and above and beyond everything on the market to stay the least.
I'm not at a place where I feel comfortable moving lawn equipment over to electric. I dunno -- my experience with electric is it doesn't last long enough for me to finish the job and the electric motors are not as powerful as gas. But the last electric tool I owned was like an 18v black and decker hedge trimmer so maybe times have changed.
@@JoshuaBardwell they have definitely changed. The higher 56 voltage seems to be the sweet spot. I wasn’t too sure either so I started with the 650cfm blower with the 5ah pack and was absolutely stunned how powerful it is. My gas blower went straight into the trash followed by my string trimmer.
I’m intrigued by the light weight and lifespan of the relion batteries. I would probably go with a smaller one and build a diy kit with inverter if needed.
I think it’s also important to note that LifePO4 chemistry lasts for about 10 years.. no matter how many times it is used/recharged. 7,000 80% cycles / 3,650 days = 1.9 cycles a day. 1.9 * 736 Wh = 1,398 Wh. That means to get the full benefits of the battery over its life, you would need to USE it to charge 63 batteries that were 22 Wh each EVERY DAY. It’s pretty obvious no one would use it to charge 63 batteries a day, and that the real life-limit of it is about a decade, not how much you use it. (Assuming you only used it for charging quad batteries)
5:40 I actually use the battery i made on my scooter to feild charge. 36v 12ah LiFePO4 lasts the whole day and the trip. If you have a mini EV, I highly recommend adding a little plug to steal power for feild charging. I mean you brought the battery with you anyways.
I have 2 x 135 AH lithium batteries in the back toolbox of my Truck , which charge through a dc-dc charger using the alternator or solar panels , these run any extra accessories like my fridge , chargers , lights , invertor and so forth . As this is an ongoing updating system for camping and work , it will offer the best solution for me . As you have the battery it is a solution for the boot of your stang , on your trips away and local . And as for solar panels, which you shouldn't need but if you wanted to , there are some good fold up sets available , because obviously you wouldn't want to ruin the aesthetics of Bardwell mobile with a set of roof racks .
What I did was use a li-ion pack (solar generator style) with a portable solar panel. I sized the pack for only a few hours of charging so on a overcast day I could get enough charges with the pack plus fully charged lipo's. I calculated it based on a 4 hour flight session, not all day. But with the solar panel, I could go all day or even multiple days without plugging the li-ion pack into the mains power to recharged, since by the time I got done flying 2 packs, the 2 packs on charge were ready to go and the solar had already recharged the li-ion pack. In other words, the solar setup with a solar generator is sustainable, as long as it is sunny on that day, which in my area, if I'm flying, it most likely is sunny. I also like to add I went this route not because of cost, but also so I could have something to use when the power goes out during the winter. So your pack with an inverter is ready great for running a refrigerator or recharging phones/tablets/laptops/lights, etc. when you lose power at home. It beats using gas generator and maintaining it. I always had issues with bad gas and/or gummed up carbs, and I just don't want to deal with it. With that said, most my friends went with a deep cycle lead acid battery. But you just don't want to carry it if you have to hike in anywhere to fly. My friend pulls his kids wagon with it and the rest of his gear when we have to walk in any distance to fly, so it's not that bad.
Another advantage of field charging vs. buying 30 packs is that it reduces charging time at home. I can charge 6-8 flight packs plus my field charging packs in just a few hours, but charging 30 flight packs would take me all day!
You know this is a special video. Not because of the improved lighting and effort taken to set up the different shots and scenes. Because Bardwell shaved his neck.
I fly mostly 1-2S toothpicks due to charging. Just one big battery and easy balance charge in parallel gets me flying for hours. Also spots with closer spaces can be as fun as bigger open places.
I built my own Lifepo4 pack. I got 8 100amp Lifepo4 cells arranged as 4s2p for 200amps at 12.6volts. 8 cells ended up costing around 300. That's double the capacity of the ReLion setup. Mounted it in my rolling toolbox and wired up some connectors, a couple of USB ports and power switches. I went a little overkill with 200 amps and I get about 1 or 2 months of going to the field 3-4 times a week before I recharge the power station. I'm starting to fly larger edfs that use 6s 6000mah batteries so I assume I'll probably need to charge it once a week when I fly mostly edfs. If you don't mind building your own, Lifepo4 become much more cost effective.
DUDE! AWESOME! I got a 18 40138 20ah cells for 8€ each, the pack will be 1150wh and I plan on charging it once a week so I practically never have to charge my lipo indoors 😅
Joshua, Yea, that's a head scratcher. A 1,000 bucks vs other applications especially over time when no-one knows what's around the corner. Potato or Potato, Tomato Tomato, humm? Equally, battery technology is without a doubt whatsoever on the cusp of a big change in weight density vs output and longevity. Time will tell and fiscally speaking, I'll just charge from my dual battery Ford Excursion for the foreseeable future. Good Review.
The generator you used I believe is a sportsman 1000 I just bought one for 184$ from tractor supply FYI for anyone considering buying a cheap generator.
I think the relion is a great if you have the money. Personally I would prefer the deep cycle. Even though it would be heavier, I think it would be cool to incorporate it into a rolling cart as a portable "build station". See, I like building as much as flying!
JB. I do the hybrid method. I charge some beforehand but have a 4 s 10 A battery and a 6s 6A as standby. I don’t like charging up 30 packs then get to the site and find out the wind is not right then have to discharge them all. So I only charge about five to start.
Ecoflow, jackery and bluetti, also golabs you should have touched on a little more, example ecoflow has several sizes available. This was a very isolated round up for sure should of done it more of a just here is common field charging options instead. I would love to see a round up of the solar generators.
Yeah I definitely had to be a bit selective about what I included in the interest of keeping the video to a reasonable length. I mentioned the Ecoflow solution and showed some other alternatives but I didn't dive in deep on them.
@@JoshuaBardwell one other thing i noticed in your video you may want to clarify in the future, you refered to the relion batteries as lithium iron phosphate but you also refer to them some as LiFe which is sorta correct but, from my recent research into life and lifep04. They are similar but do seem to require different chargers. A typical rc charger that supports LiFe will not properly charge a Lifep04 ( lithium iron phosphate) batteries this is somehting to note for sure as a safety risk.
Dude seemed to appreciate your contribution to his video 🤣 And yes this is definitely the best and cheapest option but requires the person putting it all together to not be an idiot.
For generators, always run non ethanol gas! If you let it sit for any length of time you'll be needing carb work. My neighborhood Stihl and Echo dealers both told me over 50% of the repairs they make are related to the 10% ethanol gas.
I bought 8 200AH lifepo4 cells from aliexpress for about $700 that can provide 5.1kwh of power which is a ridiculous amount of energy for drone racing... Before that, I was using a 140w solar panel, victron 15a MPPT solar charge controller, and two turnigy 6600mah 6s lipos in parallel. The lipos themselves were pretty much enough for my field charging needs but add in the solar and I could fly all day (on sunny days).
You also have to look at the other benefits to the more expensive options Thier no longer just for charging batteries the generator and power bank can also be used for disaster preparation power out for a week still able to run your fridge and freezer or furnace is pretty important or a small pump to keep the water away.
For about $225 USD you can buy an AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) Lead Acid battery that doesn’t care how you store it or carry it as nothing can spill. They generally have better life cycles than traditional flooded lead acid batteries as well because the acid can’t evaporate.
I think I'm in the target market for the reLion battery, but I have a few unanswered questions here: - How many 6s packs can you charge off a single charge of the relion? - Is there an output where the relion falls down? - Can it receive power via solar panels or the like to increase the number of packs you can charge off it without it dying? - With the above can it be charged while outputting power or does it need to be put in a mode where it does one or the other? - How does the relion compare to the portable generator that slatt used in his field charging video (The FPV Tool I Never Knew I NEEDED video)? Would like to see how these work out, I generally fly out in the middle of nowhere and if it has the capacity to charge all my quads over a weekend of flying it saves me from needing to find powered camp sites might be the subject of a follow up video where it gets stress tested
A typical battery for a five inch quad is about 22 Wh. The Outlaw 1072 has about 970 Wh capacity. 970 / 22 = it can charge 44 packs. That assumes the packs are fully discharged. From the DC output it can discharge up to 30 amps. From the AC output it's limited to 1000 Watts. The Outlaw is ready to go with solar panels. I believe you can charge and discharge at the same time. The manual simply says to plug in the panel. It doesn't mention any restrictions. When you charge you just plug in the charger. There is no special charging mode. The one Slatt showed is much smaller capacity and is based on LiPo chemistry not LiFe.
thats what i was going to say i just put a small inverter in my truck. i normally use it too charge cordless tool barteries between jobs. you olby need 800w inverter for 4s 1500mah. to be safe you do need to run it through an isolater. if not you could have isssues with cars computer when starting vehicle while charging. i just start truck and then start charger. works great.
I use a Li-Ion battery from an M365 scooter. It has its own regulator/charger built in. It also has an XT30 installed from factory, so i can easily re-install it into my scooter when I feel like. I just use a step down from 36vdc to 12vdc and it powers my charger just fine (passport p2 ultra). I don’t know how many batteries I can charge but I always have to head home before it’s depleted. Whether that be due to my tendency to crash or time constraints depends on the day 😅
Well I have like 20 packs of 6s now. My cousin just quit the hobby so I got his 11 r-lines for $220..I'm pretty happy with that haha. So looks like I'm charging 20 packs for a day of flying.
I would go for the ReLiOn .. It the best option, even the amazon thingies are more expensive, sure they have a smaller price tag, but if you have to buy 10 of them to match the lifespan, well that's a lot more money and hassle. the issue here is .. who is gonna fly for hours/days? I mean in most cases .. what do you fly max .. 10-15 packs? (I'm more like 6 on average myself) I do have more than 15 flight packs .. so I'm good, in a normal day I just charge like 5 of them and keep the rest on storage, over the weekend when we go out I charge all of them... so with this in mind, the car battery is sure the better option because you have it with you anyway ;) although if this would be a group effort, then, of course, the choice is simple: ReLiOn
As far as the "car battery."... Other higher amp hour deep cycle batteries are available. 12v sla 100aH for instance isn't real expensive. They are spillproof and can be in any orientation. Combined with solar charging they are a wonderful field charging solution that isn't very expensive. I wouldn't mind a power station solution but until the price comes down on the higher life cycle batteries my way works great.
The most compelling reason to spend $1000 for me is I have lots of different batteries and often don’t know what I’m going to fly until I get there. Theoretically I could just charge a few batteries but I know I’ll start off flying leave the rest in storage and just charge while I’m there while I plan on flying next it wouldn’t matter if I flew DJI whoop, micro, 5 inch, or even the cell count and I like that flexibility. If I had another use for it I would have already ordered one. Fr me it’s all about where I want to spend my hobby money and frankly I could get a laptop that will run a simulator for that price.
well what you can also do is to go to Car EV charger with J1772 plug adapter to standard outlet plug and you can charge from the stand.. as long as your charger can have input 240VAC you are good because you can run 6.6kW input or even 10kV input if you have multiple pigtails
Hells yeah #Relion all day. I was blessed with one and man that baby is the best thing that I own. Literally never have to worry about any batteries dying whether it's transmitter batteries goggle batteries etc. The thing is super light also and its pretty 😝
How many packs can you charge off of it? I need something that will keep me flying up to 6 hours a day. Cycling 20 packs of 6s 1400mah and 6 packs of 6s 5100mah.
Was looking for someone to point this out. You can also get smaller prismatic cells and it's really easy to put 4 batteries in series and get a 4s balance lead and charge it with your normal charger. Can make a 12V25Ah pack for about 100 bucks which will last you forever.
Old car batteries make a cheap option, too. If they do not start your car but still can deliver less amps for some xx Wh you may just give them a second life charging your drones with no additional costs.
Hey JB you've neglected to focus on an average day of flying. At which point you can refresh any of your chosen devices. If a smaller (cheaper) battery can provide the required amount of charge its cost ratio is surely better. Most fpv folk I know run 8000 - 16000 mah 6s batteries. Surely the calculation for field charging is: How many packs do I fly and therefore how big a battery do I need (to hold this charge) combined with the question of how many flight packs do you need, to not be grounded this would be based on knowing your preferred charge rate/ charging habits (parallel charging, dual port chargers etc). This product is only useful if you need a generator but don't like noise.
This is a really good perspective. This video started with me wanting to check the value proposition of the ReLiOn solution, so I focused on things that were similar in Wh capacity. But you definitely don't need 900+ Wh for a typical day of charging.
1700 deep cycles on a deep cycle lead acid sounds very, very optimistic, perhaps more advertising than actual reality. Max depth of discharge for long life on deep cycle lead acid is generally regarded as 50%, and cycle life more like 300-500 at that level. Moreover the life is limited by the chemical processes in the battery to about six years which means you may not get full use out of it before it becomes a doorstop. The cheapest lead acid are the flooded type which are not good for moving around, will spill badly if tipped, and generally develop corrosion from the acid mist near the caps. Better for transportation are the AGM or Gel type but cost goes way up and the weight is still there. LiFePO4 batteries lasts a lot longer, and are a lot lighter. Many sizes are available to fit the daily need and the 12V is ideal for powering portable field chargers without a lot of expensive extra features.
If you know how to build battery packs and live in USA you can get dirt cheap salvaged cells. I got a 12s 20ah lipo out of a hybrid Mercedes with 95% life left (I'm getting close to 19ah after 2 years use on an ebike) for $100 from BatteryHookup. The only thing that killed me was the shipping and import duties to Canada.
My GF finaly bought me a birthday that I honesty liked.. 4 new lipo packs of my favourite brand! Also I just did the math, my old 12V 20Ah lead acid battery is totally beaten up.. if it was new I could charge 12 of my packs.. plus 4 charges of the full packs I yake to the field... I either break something long before that or fly myself dizzy.. I have never flown more that 10 in a row... I would need to order pizza to the field..
But you also have to buy the flight packs anyways. They are borderline exposable. If you buy 3x as many flight packs you have, they will last probably more flight days, since they are used less. You also have the advantage to not have to do stuff in the field and handle the charger, but can do it at home where you can focus on the thing.
kinda agree, but you have to deal with discharging them when you don't go through all the packs you bring out in the field, which can be a pain in the ass.
I like the little gas one . . everyone can charge . . couple peeps at a time . . gas is cheap too with that amount of power and convenience! love it bard . . convenience is king in situation !
What would you say would be the lowest power, inexpensive Power Station you can get that would still be worth buying? I’m seeing a lot of these hit the market now and with prime day coming up I’ll bet they’ll be some great deals.
I've spent a thousand on way worse things. I consider it if I did a lot of flying away from power. Nice unit. I could probably convince my wife it's for camping.
I got a small 144 watt hour lead acid battery for 27 bucks. While I could have easily got a lipo pack for this size it would have been so much more money and 144 watt hours is all I need. It ends up coming out at a cool 18.75 cents per watt hours so it’s a good deal too. And it’s only 8 pounds as it’s a smaller pack
Hey @Joshua Bardwell how old is that baby now? Seems like I've been seeing that outro for a while now. My baby is 7months and loves to "help" me work on my drones & planes. I even gave him his own whoop and he carries it around in his walker. I even have a picture of him trying to use my wowstick.
i support the relion if u take into consideration it can power not only sure batteries but also sure trips and if ure the wild fpv pilots who go out deep in the mountains or desert and sure gonna camp for the night then u can use the relion to power the light or sure induction stove
Tried to comment earlier, but it got eaten by the spam filters. Not sure what I'm saying is triggering them. Ecoflow tends to run some trickery with their Li-Ion battery packs. I have their River Pro, and they rate it to 800 cycles, but they did some trickery and hold some capacity in reserve to extend the cycle life at the cost of per charge life. I can't use its full 720Wh because of it - only like 590 or so. You can also get other power stations for as little as $0.50/Wh.
Regarding the car and deep cycle batteries, I just wanted to point out that a 10ft 10AWG extension cord only has .3V drop at 14V/20A. If you know what you're doing, you can put a deep cycle in a battery box in your trunk and it will charge and maintain just by driving your car. You can add an isolator ($30 @AutoZone) to prevent it from draining your car's main battery when the car is turned off. But if you don't have or drive a car, then this is all moot.
If you can't be near an outlet or your car, this technology may be the only way to pull off flying all day, but I couldn't justify the cost unless I was heavily into overlanding or camping as well. What about coupling this with a folding solar panel?
Electric car owner here...I just plug my regular lipo charger into the 110V outlet of my car and charge as normal. My car can "idle" all day with basically no range loss and because it's electric, also no pollution! So problem solved, just drive electric cars and don't worry about it!
I can only recommend buying a normal LiFePO4 battery if you don't need the functionality of a powerstation. I have a small 25Ah 12V (half)block, which is small and light (7 pounds/3kg) enought to fit in my backpack and can easily charge my 4 flight packs twice (with 2C) at 80% DoD. LiFePo4 batteries are also much more robust (physically and chemically) than lipos, so that I don't have to care about bringing it to storage voltage or it setting my house on fire. Also the one you have is really expensive, I paid 150 for my 320Wh one, which works out to about 0.5$ per Wh, and there are even cheaper options. And I don't know where you got that 1700 cycles for a lead acid battery from, but at 80% DoD you are looking at a few hundred at best. A high DoD kills Lead acid batteries very quickly and together with the other problems like the high weight, reduced capacity at high discharge speed and the need to trickle charge them, they are only worth it, if you can't afford the alternatives.
I have been sorely tempted to replace the batteries in my electric gate opener with LiFePO4. They're charged off a solar panel but the charging circuit is not really very smart and I have had to replace them at least once because they were allowed to over-discharge. With the stable chemistry, large capacity, and integrated BMS of the ReLiOn packs, it seems like the perfect answer.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
If you are tempted by the 120v AC output of the power banks, bear in mind, you can buy a 1000 watt inverter for about $200. That sounds like a lot, but if you're comparison shopping a $150 deep-cycle marine battery + a $200 inverter, vs. a $1000 power bank, it suddenly looks pretty good.
I paid $146 for my 1500W 24V Pure Sine Wave Inverter and it's been absolutely rock solid for me so far, even using it for boiling water has been perfect.
Yup, DIY is actually quite a contender here. I'm actually building a case with 56x21700@4.8ah cells (with some room for 7 or 14 more if need be) of the supposedly tesla model 3 variety on the cheap about 2.2usd per cell, 500w meanwell PSU, 500w pure sine inverter, 50v@15a lab power supply thing, 2x ISDT chargers and 2x100W USB-PD chargers and some other bits and bobs (actual case, fans, huge clunky switches rated 100A+, other switches, 6,10,12,14 AWG wiring, current clamps, BMSes, fuses e.t.c.) and all that for about 630USD. Granted I have a 3d printer and a spot welder (of the initial run kWeld variety), but overall you can have a ~1kwh pack with a ton of optional outputs, self charging (via one of the ISDT's and built in 500W supply, will also be able to basically run on external power too) and whatever else your soul desires (like I might put a 70-100W soldering iron in there) in a relatively portable case (14.5x11.8x7.6 inches) for a decent price.
Meanwhile Tesla Model 3 Long Range is about $0.6/Wh, even comes with wheels for you to move the battery around.
@@CS-gw5cq It's a bit bulky. And rather high initial investment.
@@ooHotcooleRoo could you munch all those numbers for a newbie like me? Lol
Note that end of life for LiFePO4 just means it dropped to 80% or less of its original capacity. It should still keep working at
worse than this, after 100 cycles a lead acid battery has 80% of it's original capacity generally. Also deep cycle lead should be discharged to 50%, 80% DoD is gonna get you a cycle count of 150-500 before it's only got 50% capacity remaining. His numbers were a bit off, there. Lead acid sucks. Tried it for a trailer for two years.
At the end of its life though, you can trade it in towards a new one as a core or just recycle it and get roughly ~$18 for recycling it.
@@JPTulo Yeah if you're talking about lead acid, that's one of the few things good about it. Society has gotten really good at recycling lead acid; the rates are in the upper 90%s if I recall.
Ya I have lots of batteries and lifepo4 is the best out there for most things but I think their 4000 and 7000 are inflated and those are not real world environment they are lab conditions and I assume they are established because it's probably discharged at like .2c so 5 hours for 100% and 4 for 80% but then charged at a similar rate so like 8 hours full cycle so over 3 and a half years no wait that was the 80% discharge but the 100% discharge number of cycles so 7000 over 6 years of testing and even 100% its 4.5 years and even with several going you'd kinda want to validate your test but I'm just saying it's probably established and probably inflated
I just purchased a Din Drones box, and its totally amazing! It is very small and compact and fits nicely in my backpack. I'd feel comfortable hiking any trail with it's low weight. Seems like I can charge all day long at my flying spot (30 of my 6s lipo batteries easily), also It charges back up so quickly. I just use the same pocket charger as I use on my flight pac's when I get home. It absolutely changed my life.... "10 of 10" IMO
never heard of it, what is a din drones box & what's it cost?
The issue when field charging I have found is that if you want to charge 4-6s batteries, 12-13v from a car/deep cycle is not gonna cut it. You really need at least 17v better yet 24v going to your charging system, (as long as it can take it).
Try charging a 6s Lipo with a 12v powered charger, it has to scale up to the higher voltage, which limits its amp output.
This is the issue when field charging, so I found that buying more flight batts and even another charger for home is a good way to go. I had 11 flight Lipo's and a 4 port charger, this worked very well for years for me. And you probably only need another - say 4 Lipos to have enough depending on how many you already have.
Generators are limited also - our 240v 2400w generators put out 10 Amps max. If you try charging 2 x 5000mah 4s packs for your FPV plane you are already restricted!.
You guys in USA your Genny's are 110-120v? what's the Watts output, how many amps will it give?, it wont be alot.
A deep cycle lead acid battery - 12v issue there, get 2 and run 24v charger.
$1000 Li Ion same issue as a lead acid. Not enough Amps.
My conclusion is - buy 2 x 12v deep cycle batts run them in series or one 24v marine battery - and run a 24v charger from them. Put it in a box all neat etc. its quiet and efficient. And your gonna pay for this anyway, none of the options are cheap here, so might as well do that.
If you have 2 x 12v batteries you can use a car 12v car charger to charge them in parallel, which you may already have, negating the need for a 24v charger.
Like has been mentioned here in the comments - using a Big Lipo is a pain in the ass as getting it back to storage if you havent used it all will take ages.
Li Ion and Lead acid will just sit there till the next time you charge them. Same as your Goggle batts.
Your generators calculation is a bit off 😆. Charging 2 5000mah 4s batteries at 1c charge rate requires 10 amps at 16.8 volts, that's 168 Watts or less than 1 tenth of your generators output!
2 - 12.8V 50Ah LiFEPO4's in series @ 25.4V @ 50A max cont = 1250W. Use RC connectors to quick swap to parallel to charge them @12.8V with RC charger off AC in LiFE mode - or if you have an 8S charger). A car charger isn't ideal, different charging profiles.
Its amazing that everything I search for, trying to understand more of FPV world, you have a video of it. I love it.
I don’t normally like long RUclips videos, but Josh put a lot of good humor into it. Great video with lots of info and knowledge. Thank you 👍🏽
Relion for the win... having a fly day, sharing charging with everyone, keeping your cell phone charged, bring a flat screen TV to broadcast flights in real time, a fan, or whatever hahaha.... it just brings with it so many conveniences and power access that make it worth it in my opinion. I'm sure there are others that do similar, but it's the one we have and we love it. The other day Bubby was able to roll up with NO charged packs, and still fly all day without any issues, and without me having to keep my car on so he can charge off of it.
I also appreciate that Relion is investing in our FPV community, so I'd pick them over a comparable competitor.
We didn't pay for ours, but I absolutely would. In fact, I'm buying one for my Dad ❤
I have the RELiON RB20 - 12.8v 20Ah - costs roughly $275. Weighs 6lbs and fits in my Ethix backpack that way I can field charge even if I have to hike to a spot. 👌
How many packs can you charge?
@@skyystrider8241 multiply 12.8v times 20,000mAh, then divide by whatever your packs make, using that same formula
@@skyystrider8241 about 7 of my 1550mah, 6s packs could be charged, but just say 6 packs to be conservative. not worth the weight unless youre gathering portable solar as well
boy you got scammed lol
@@underscore_tip how? It was free 🤣
Every time I have a question I'm trying to work out, you've made the perfect video answering the question - thanks so much Josh
We have recently started using a generator at my field. In practice you have 3 - 5 pilots multicharging off of one generator. Generator to extention chord to 3-5 chargers. The generator has wheels and a handle. Everyone brings a charger. We have used deep cycle and expensive power banks - they can't handle the amp draw - about an hour in everyone's charger starts getting errors/resets. I think the reason for this is when the chargers starts getting less than 12 volts they start flipping out. So when you say - hey I can charge down 600 watt hours - you need to understand when the chargers stop working - you might hit 11.99 volts after 100 watt hours.
Use a 12v to 24v step up. You can get them cheap on Amazon
get a 24V deep cycle marine battery.....
Fantastic video, Joshua! Thanks a lot! 😃
And it's always good to remember that those battery technologies are getting cheaper. Because of the EVs, that demands lots of them... So... Who knows about the future. 😊
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Here's a question for thought though: How much will have battery technology improved by the time your cheaper option would have broken? Will buying as tech improves vs buying for the long haul pay off.
That boils down to the value of your life/time. Are you willing to let perfectly good flying days pass you by while you wait for battery prices to drop to some imaginary benchmark?
@@GoatZilla Im not suggesting you wait. Im wondering if buying the cheaper option now, knowing itll deplete sooner would be outweighed by the better technology available at the time.
@@BeefIngot The same calculation still applies. "Better technology available at the *time*". You're letting time slip by while you wait for something that isn't guaranteed to arrive.
Time is one resource you never get back, so that needs to be factored into your payoff as well.
@@BeefIngot yeah you may pay less now but if the newest technology is still pretty expensive then you'll just end up paying more, or not... It's just the gamble you would take.
I have that little generator, have had it for years and it works great. Year after year, fires right up, have never had a single problem. I've ran my refrigerator and TV off that little genny during power outages as well but it is mainly my rc field genny. It's quiet, always starts and is cheap to operate.
I think anything that is an easy plug and play with a solar panel is a win for me. The relion or the other power stations looks great. Been thinking of going with Jackery, but I haven't done much research on it.
I run 2 deep cycle batteries from walmart charging my equipment at home. I sometimes bring it out to the field if I am flying all day with my friends. I normally discharge them down to 11.6v and i have a solar panel with a mppt to charge the battery. I multiuse the battery actually, other than charging my flying stuff I also use it too power my laptop, cable modem, router, and lights when my power goes out. Spent in total with 1 200w solar panel, a renogy 30amp mppt and 2 large deep cycle battery was under $500
could you do like an imgur post or something showing the setup
@@definingslawek4731 I got my picture setup somewhere when I started so I gotta look for it. But I just followed will prowse milkcrate build ruclips.net/video/4ypDwMYO1rU/видео.html
I changed my setup with the components with what I could get like instead of the milk crate I used a harbor freight handtruck and some planks to lay down the 2 heavy ass batteries. Theres also a few solar power youtubers that also build a handtruck power generator. I kinda mashed their builds together.
I bought a Rocksolar 222wh Portable power station and it works amazing for what I need. It was on sale for $139.99 on Amazon. I only charge 4s 750mah and 2s 550mah batteries though.. but I can fly all day with no problem.
which makes it more expensive then the ReLiOn (even at the discounted price)
@@nullx8 How do you figure...? I never said mine was better, or that it even compared to the relion... all I said was mine works great for me. Also, I don't need 3 days worth of power when I go flying... so like I said, mine works great for what I need.
@@JP-qq2kn not sure you actually addressing me, my comment was only about cost. hmm i can't find the comment where anyone said anything about better or worse .. maybe its been deleted ?
@@nullx8 what exactly were you implying by your first comment then?
THIS IS HILARIOUS to me.
I literally JUST had this problem.
My solution was the Jackery 240 and a solar panel.
But we also go camping and do other things as well. So its not JUST a FPV purchase. it should be multifaceted.
I'm using a 200w solar suitcase to keep a 12v 25Ah sealed gel topped off and have never had an issue flying all day. Unlimited energy access and comes in handy for more than just drone stuff.
I made a 4s10p pack from 5,000mah 21700 Tesla Cells and it come out to 5,600wh per dollar (@800 Cycles)... I spent about $120 to build it... DIY for the win..!!
This is what I’m saying. Custom size, voltage, modular, charging. DIY G🅰️🆖
You do have to factor in the time it took you to make and time to learn to make without blowing yourself up (if you don't know how to be careful building your own pack, don't build your own).
@@colinmetzger6755 I totally agree.. Although Drone builders are pretty handy people.. If you can build a drone you can build a pack..
or you can check out jag35.com/ and get recycled packs from scooters and stuff. Theyr'e pre-built packs with BMS just gotta charge them and go.
I want something i can stick in my backpack and charge my lipos mayve 3 times i only have 6 lipos reccomend? If so id love to talk in disord
Just received my ecoflow river pro w/ a solar panel 2 days ago for my camping trip next week. Should be plenty for me. Great video!
Another quirky option if you can park near where you fly, is to replace your regular starting battery with a big deep cycle battery. Turns out a deep cycle battery will start any modern car just fine. I've been running one in my 4runner for several years and haven't had any issues starting, even at sub zero temps. One challenge though is sometimes the battery terminals are reversed for a given size battery so may need longer leads.
But, I also have another deep cycle in the back of my vehicle as it's just a lot more convenient there, and the main issue I have with it, is getting it fully charged and keeping it topped up without dragging it back into the house every time. I've been trying to find a way to charge it quickly (10-15+A @ 13.5V) whenever I'm driving and keep it *fully* topped up. I've tried a Towed Battery Charger (meant to supply power from an RV to a car you're towing behind it), but it charges too slow and doesn't charge to full voltage. I've also tried a solar charge controller powered from my trailer plug which seems to be able to charge at up to 15A, and claims to go to full voltage (13.5V) but mine doesn't, and it has a constant parasitic draw (powered from the charged battery rather than the source). If anyone has solved this problem, keeping a deep cycle *fully* charged from your vehicle, only when it's running, let me know what you did. What I usually end up doing is dragging my regular A/C 12V charger out side on a long extension cord to charge my deep cycle, but then I have to deal with it whenever I want to go somewhere.
This is exactly the kind of little annoyance that a lead acid battery has, that a LiFe solves. You pay a lot for the privilege of a lighter and faster charging battery. You csn charge the Outlaw at up to 30 amps!
@@JoshuaBardwell I can (and do) charge my big lead acid batteries at 20A too using my iCharger 308DUO. The challenge I'm trying to solve is finding a way to automatically charge the deep cycle while leaving it in the vehicle, connected. I have 13V@20A of switched power at the trailer towing harness. Switching the standalone deep cycle to LiIon or LiFe doesn't yet solve that problem. If there were a hobby charger that just started charging on a preset program the moment you turn it on, that would be ideal.
That's why simply replacing the starting battery with a deep cycle actually works pretty well. It gets charged relatively quickly while driving. But yes, I've still drained it after charging too many Lipos in a row.
Great topic - super video. FWIW, if (like me) you (dear reader) use EGO 56V yard tools, EGO makes an inverter with a 120V/1.25A/150W output that you can attach to one of your EGO batteries. Then, plug in your LiPo charger, and charge away. Perhaps not great for efficiency, but since I already owned several EGO 56V 5 and 7.5AH batteries for my tools, the $79/US (on-sale for Fathers Day) inverter was a low-cost (and easy to handle) solution. Jason also provided sage comments -- it is easy to simply own more LiPOs. I typically take 12-15 of various sizes with me when I go to the field (I like to fly for a couple of hours).
in my early days of FPV when I'd take my little 2S Kingkong quads out onto the hills, I would charge the packs back up from my ebike battery with an iSDT Q6.
It's a 7S 10,000mAh battery in a 7S2P configuration, I know this because I re-celled it myself with 14x 5000mAh lipo cells from Hobbyking.
I've got an allpowers power station, 372 watt hours. Bought it for $200. It is now $239 on Amazon. It is a bunch of lithium ion batteries with Bluetooth monitoring and bms and outputs multiple ways in a nice case, pure sine wave. Also have their 100w folding solar panel. I don't fly long enough up until now to take it into the field, but it would keep me rolling if needed. Actually bought it for Florida hurricane season. I also tested charging lipos on it and it works well. Won't take as many charge cycles as this one, but if the day comes, I'm gonna try to take it apart and replace the batteries. Make sure to use Joshua's amazon link if you take a look at it.
Best video for some time now, thanks :)
You forgot that some chargers need >15V to be able to chage 6S LiPos, this should be considered
Also I would love to see a comparison between maybe a ~250Wh LiIon and LiPo, because this is a size I can fit into my bag
For 3 years now I have been using the same 12Ah 6S LiPo, my ISDTs can charge 6S with this and it carries ~8 charges for my 5" racer, or ~25 charges for my 3" racers or 50 charges for my 4S 2" or 120 charges for my 2S 2" and pretty much a week of whoop charges ;)
This in combination with 2 chargers and 3 hq racepacks is what I have been using, racepacks are trash after 1 year anyway : /
But I am considering replacing it with a LiIon at some point, for peace of mind reasons, but the weight might be an important point
I think any of those LIPO/LION/LiFe power stations the value is cross use besides field charging. They make a hell of a lot more sense if you're camping, live in hurricane territory and don't want a full on generator, etc. If you can use it for other things, it makes a hell of a lot more sense.
For me, otherwise, I almost always kill packs in crashes before I kill packs from age/recharging them. IE, buying a field charging pack doesn't actually save me money because I'm going to kill those packs before they would have died from "natural causes" anyway. So I just buy more packs. I wait for CNHL direct sales, and stock up on $15 6s 1100-1250mah packs.
I agree that cross-use is a big advantage of the power bank solutions. With the Outlaw, I could bring a box fan with me and keep cool, or something like that. It's easy to run an LCD panel for spectator or basically anything you would normally need a generator for, without the hassle and noise of a generator. The counter-argument is that you COULD spend about $200 on a 1000 watt inverter and connect it to any of the other battery solutions and end up in more or less the same place.
And if you got the solar panels it would charge all day
@@JoshuaBardwellmight as well just add panels, a fridge, and a bed and you've got yourself an rv
You can purchase LiFePO4 cells on AliExpress.
I'm thinking of purchasing 24 cells for $93.03.
These are 3.2V LiFePO4 6.5Ah cells. This works out to less than 19 cents per Wh. The ReLiOn battery is about a dollar per Wh.
Of course the AliExpress cells will be a lot more work to turn into a useful power pack but I think it will be a fun project. The AliExpress cells can take 3 months to ship so it's not a good option if you want something to use this summer.
Thanks for interesting video Joshua.
I got that sportsman generator for $150 on some Home Depot sale several years ago. Would never use it as a field charger power supply but it is great for running my desktop pc, stereo, and fan during outages.
If portability is not a factor perhaps a marine grade deep cycle. These can weigh well over 100lbs, but only cost a few hundred and would probably cost even less $/WH while delivering far more WH/$ over their lifespan. (who wants to move a 120lb battery?) The Relion might be a great option if you also have other charging or remote power needs, especially if paired with solar.
I think you're spot on with the pricing. If you're doing commercial work or if you have a decent hobby budget then it would be great to have. Otherwise for mere mortals like most of us that money would be better spent on quad parts/spare batteries.
The problem I have with the car charging method is that you can't fly while you charge if you're solo. Someone has to watch the car otherwise it might get stolen while you're flying. I just fly close to my house and charge while I watch TV and then head back out if I want to fly more.
I’ve transitioned all of my gas lawn equipment over to the EGO lineup that Lowes carries. Currently, I have 980wh of energy on my shelf (10ah, 5ah, & 2.5ah packs). Not sure if you’ve seen it but the EGO brand sells a 2,000w Power station that you can hot swap the packs onto. Its a little bit on the pricey side, not a complete package with the requirement to purchase an external solar brick to use solar, and no xt or ec connectors for hobbyist use, but it is interesting. I haven’t purchase this yet and don’t know why I’m holding out. The Ecoflow Riverpro also looks like a fair competitor and value. I predict that Ego will come out on top in the future. The big box stores have embraced them. They already have a solid grasp of people in their ecosystem and it only makes sense that if you have that energy on your shelf for all your lawn equipment, might as well put it to use. The arc shaped (for surface area cooling) vented and rugged design of their 56v packs is stunning and above and beyond everything on the market to stay the least.
I'm not at a place where I feel comfortable moving lawn equipment over to electric. I dunno -- my experience with electric is it doesn't last long enough for me to finish the job and the electric motors are not as powerful as gas. But the last electric tool I owned was like an 18v black and decker hedge trimmer so maybe times have changed.
@@JoshuaBardwell they have definitely changed. The higher 56 voltage seems to be the sweet spot. I wasn’t too sure either so I started with the 650cfm blower with the 5ah pack and was absolutely stunned how powerful it is. My gas blower went straight into the trash followed by my string trimmer.
I'm pretty happy with my Bluetti EB3A and PV200 combo. Less than $1000 and keeps me going all day.
I’m intrigued by the light weight and lifespan of the relion batteries. I would probably go with a smaller one and build a diy kit with inverter if needed.
I think it’s also important to note that LifePO4 chemistry lasts for about 10 years.. no matter how many times it is used/recharged. 7,000 80% cycles / 3,650 days = 1.9 cycles a day. 1.9 * 736 Wh = 1,398 Wh. That means to get the full benefits of the battery over its life, you would need to USE it to charge 63 batteries that were 22 Wh each EVERY DAY. It’s pretty obvious no one would use it to charge 63 batteries a day, and that the real life-limit of it is about a decade, not how much you use it. (Assuming you only used it for charging quad batteries)
minchan would use it that much.
5:40 I actually use the battery i made on my scooter to feild charge. 36v 12ah LiFePO4 lasts the whole day and the trip. If you have a mini EV, I highly recommend adding a little plug to steal power for feild charging. I mean you brought the battery with you anyways.
I am using Bluette EB150 1500WH/1300WH useable. Charging 5000MAH 6s batteries. Works great.
im lovin it ! nice breath of fresh air for your channel !
I have 2 x 135 AH lithium batteries in the back toolbox of my Truck , which charge through a dc-dc charger using the alternator or solar panels , these run any extra accessories like my fridge , chargers , lights , invertor and so forth . As this is an ongoing updating system for camping and work , it will offer the best solution for me . As you have the battery it is a solution for the boot of your stang , on your trips away and local . And as for solar panels, which you shouldn't need but if you wanted to , there are some good fold up sets available , because obviously you wouldn't want to ruin the aesthetics of Bardwell mobile with a set of roof racks .
What I did was use a li-ion pack (solar generator style) with a portable solar panel. I sized the pack for only a few hours of charging so on a overcast day I could get enough charges with the pack plus fully charged lipo's. I calculated it based on a 4 hour flight session, not all day. But with the solar panel, I could go all day or even multiple days without plugging the li-ion pack into the mains power to recharged, since by the time I got done flying 2 packs, the 2 packs on charge were ready to go and the solar had already recharged the li-ion pack. In other words, the solar setup with a solar generator is sustainable, as long as it is sunny on that day, which in my area, if I'm flying, it most likely is sunny.
I also like to add I went this route not because of cost, but also so I could have something to use when the power goes out during the winter. So your pack with an inverter is ready great for running a refrigerator or recharging phones/tablets/laptops/lights, etc. when you lose power at home. It beats using gas generator and maintaining it. I always had issues with bad gas and/or gummed up carbs, and I just don't want to deal with it.
With that said, most my friends went with a deep cycle lead acid battery. But you just don't want to carry it if you have to hike in anywhere to fly. My friend pulls his kids wagon with it and the rest of his gear when we have to walk in any distance to fly, so it's not that bad.
Another advantage of field charging vs. buying 30 packs is that it reduces charging time at home. I can charge 6-8 flight packs plus my field charging packs in just a few hours, but charging 30 flight packs would take me all day!
You know this is a special video. Not because of the improved lighting and effort taken to set up the different shots and scenes. Because Bardwell shaved his neck.
I fly mostly 1-2S toothpicks due to charging. Just one big battery and easy balance charge in parallel gets me flying for hours.
Also spots with closer spaces can be as fun as bigger open places.
I built my own Lifepo4 pack. I got 8 100amp Lifepo4 cells arranged as 4s2p for 200amps at 12.6volts. 8 cells ended up costing around 300. That's double the capacity of the ReLion setup. Mounted it in my rolling toolbox and wired up some connectors, a couple of USB ports and power switches. I went a little overkill with 200 amps and I get about 1 or 2 months of going to the field 3-4 times a week before I recharge the power station. I'm starting to fly larger edfs that use 6s 6000mah batteries so I assume I'll probably need to charge it once a week when I fly mostly edfs. If you don't mind building your own, Lifepo4 become much more cost effective.
DUDE! AWESOME! I got a 18 40138 20ah cells for 8€ each, the pack will be 1150wh and I plan on charging it once a week so I practically never have to charge my lipo indoors 😅
Joshua, Yea, that's a head scratcher. A 1,000 bucks vs other applications especially over time when no-one knows what's around the corner. Potato or Potato, Tomato Tomato, humm? Equally, battery technology is without a doubt whatsoever on the cusp of a big change in weight density vs output and longevity. Time will tell and fiscally speaking, I'll just charge from my dual battery Ford Excursion for the foreseeable future. Good Review.
The generator you used I believe is a sportsman 1000 I just bought one for 184$ from tractor supply FYI for anyone considering buying a cheap generator.
I think the relion is a great if you have the money. Personally I would prefer the deep cycle. Even though it would be heavier, I think it would be cool to incorporate it into a rolling cart as a portable "build station". See, I like building as much as flying!
JB. I do the hybrid method. I charge some beforehand but have a 4 s 10 A battery and a 6s 6A as standby. I don’t like charging up 30 packs then get to the site and find out the wind is not right then have to discharge them all. So I only charge about five to start.
Ecoflow, jackery and bluetti, also golabs you should have touched on a little more, example ecoflow has several sizes available. This was a very isolated round up for sure should of done it more of a just here is common field charging options instead. I would love to see a round up of the solar generators.
Yeah I definitely had to be a bit selective about what I included in the interest of keeping the video to a reasonable length. I mentioned the Ecoflow solution and showed some other alternatives but I didn't dive in deep on them.
@@JoshuaBardwell one other thing i noticed in your video you may want to clarify in the future, you refered to the relion batteries as lithium iron phosphate but you also refer to them some as LiFe which is sorta correct but, from my recent research into life and lifep04. They are similar but do seem to require different chargers. A typical rc charger that supports LiFe will not properly charge a Lifep04 ( lithium iron phosphate) batteries this is somehting to note for sure as a safety risk.
You can buy a 50 ah lithium battery and 500 watt pure sine wave inverter for $250.00 ,put it in a plastic milk case as you need tnem and safely.
Cool. If that solution works for you, go for it.
Dude seemed to appreciate your contribution to his video 🤣
And yes this is definitely the best and cheapest option but requires the person putting it all together to not be an idiot.
For generators, always run non ethanol gas! If you let it sit for any length of time you'll be needing carb work. My neighborhood Stihl and Echo dealers both told me over 50% of the repairs they make are related to the 10% ethanol gas.
I bought 8 200AH lifepo4 cells from aliexpress for about $700 that can provide 5.1kwh of power which is a ridiculous amount of energy for drone racing... Before that, I was using a 140w solar panel, victron 15a MPPT solar charge controller, and two turnigy 6600mah 6s lipos in parallel. The lipos themselves were pretty much enough for my field charging needs but add in the solar and I could fly all day (on sunny days).
You also have to look at the other benefits to the more expensive options Thier no longer just for charging batteries the generator and power bank can also be used for disaster preparation power out for a week still able to run your fridge and freezer or furnace is pretty important or a small pump to keep the water away.
Great excuse to get an F-150 lightning!
For about $225 USD you can buy an AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) Lead Acid battery that doesn’t care how you store it or carry it as nothing can spill. They generally have better life cycles than traditional flooded lead acid batteries as well because the acid can’t evaporate.
I think I'm in the target market for the reLion battery, but I have a few unanswered questions here:
- How many 6s packs can you charge off a single charge of the relion?
- Is there an output where the relion falls down?
- Can it receive power via solar panels or the like to increase the number of packs you can charge off it without it dying?
- With the above can it be charged while outputting power or does it need to be put in a mode where it does one or the other?
- How does the relion compare to the portable generator that slatt used in his field charging video (The FPV Tool I Never Knew I NEEDED video)?
Would like to see how these work out, I generally fly out in the middle of nowhere and if it has the capacity to charge all my quads over a weekend of flying it saves me from needing to find powered camp sites
might be the subject of a follow up video where it gets stress tested
A typical battery for a five inch quad is about 22 Wh. The Outlaw 1072 has about 970 Wh capacity. 970 / 22 = it can charge 44 packs. That assumes the packs are fully discharged.
From the DC output it can discharge up to 30 amps. From the AC output it's limited to 1000 Watts.
The Outlaw is ready to go with solar panels.
I believe you can charge and discharge at the same time. The manual simply says to plug in the panel. It doesn't mention any restrictions. When you charge you just plug in the charger. There is no special charging mode.
The one Slatt showed is much smaller capacity and is based on LiPo chemistry not LiFe.
@@JoshuaBardwell cool now gotta look to see if anyone put the relion head to head against the jackery line & ecoflow line to see where it stacks up
thats what i was going to say i just put a small inverter in my truck. i normally use it too charge cordless tool barteries between jobs. you olby need 800w inverter for 4s 1500mah. to be safe you do need to run it through an isolater. if not you could have isssues with cars computer when starting vehicle while charging. i just start truck and then start charger. works great.
I use a Li-Ion battery from an M365 scooter. It has its own regulator/charger built in. It also has an XT30 installed from factory, so i can easily re-install it into my scooter when I feel like. I just use a step down from 36vdc to 12vdc and it powers my charger just fine (passport p2 ultra). I don’t know how many batteries I can charge but I always have to head home before it’s depleted. Whether that be due to my tendency to crash or time constraints depends on the day 😅
7:00 - 7:18 I think on most 'smart' chargers (not 4 button) you can set a limit on input voltage to not discharge feild batteries too much.
Well I have like 20 packs of 6s now. My cousin just quit the hobby so I got his 11 r-lines for $220..I'm pretty happy with that haha. So looks like I'm charging 20 packs for a day of flying.
Nice heart tugger at the end love your videos brother....👍😉
I would go for the ReLiOn .. It the best option, even the amazon thingies are more expensive, sure they have a smaller price tag, but if you have to buy 10 of them to match the lifespan, well that's a lot more money and hassle. the issue here is .. who is gonna fly for hours/days? I mean in most cases .. what do you fly max .. 10-15 packs? (I'm more like 6 on average myself)
I do have more than 15 flight packs .. so I'm good, in a normal day I just charge like 5 of them and keep the rest on storage, over the weekend when we go out I charge all of them...
so with this in mind, the car battery is sure the better option because you have it with you anyway ;) although if this would be a group effort, then, of course, the choice is simple: ReLiOn
As far as the "car battery."... Other higher amp hour deep cycle batteries are available. 12v sla 100aH for instance isn't real expensive. They are spillproof and can be in any orientation. Combined with solar charging they are a wonderful field charging solution that isn't very expensive. I wouldn't mind a power station solution but until the price comes down on the higher life cycle batteries my way works great.
The most compelling reason to spend $1000 for me is I have lots of different batteries and often don’t know what I’m going to fly until I get there. Theoretically I could just charge a few batteries but I know I’ll start off flying leave the rest in storage and just charge while I’m there while I plan on flying next it wouldn’t matter if I flew DJI whoop, micro, 5 inch, or even the cell count and I like that flexibility. If I had another use for it I would have already ordered one.
Fr me it’s all about where I want to spend my hobby money and frankly I could get a laptop that will run a simulator for that price.
well what you can also do is to go to Car EV charger with J1772 plug adapter to standard outlet plug and you can charge from the stand.. as long as your charger can have input 240VAC you are good because you can run 6.6kW input or even 10kV input if you have multiple pigtails
Hells yeah #Relion all day. I was blessed with one and man that baby is the best thing that I own. Literally never have to worry about any batteries dying whether it's transmitter batteries goggle batteries etc. The thing is super light also and its pretty 😝
How many packs can you charge off of it? I need something that will keep me flying up to 6 hours a day. Cycling 20 packs of 6s 1400mah and 6 packs of 6s 5100mah.
@@AgroAaronFpv honesly about 35-38 packs I'd say 1200mah 6s packs. That's a good estimate I would say
@@josefdahari oh that's pretty good. Thanks!
🦄 Hi, found the lithioniron battery interesting. See if they will send you the solar panels .
Relion supports the beer fridge at the field
Interesting! Thx for making this video. 🤙
I'm leaning towards the deep cycle battery! but if I had the 1000 to drop on the relion I would
I may have missed it but he missed adding the cost of a charger for the battery as well.
Thanks for the great analysis, Sir!
Big Lipo has the advantage that you can discharge Flight Lipos into it. Very useful to me.
I use a Jackery Explorer 300 with Solar Panel. Best investment I had made for being out most of the day flying my planes/drones.
At 2:30 what was said ("energy capacity") should be correct, compared to the edited correction ("power capacity").
Lifepo4 goes for about 1 dollar per amp hour or per 3.2wh nowadays.
4 50ah cells are about 200 bucks.
Was looking for someone to point this out. You can also get smaller prismatic cells and it's really easy to put 4 batteries in series and get a 4s balance lead and charge it with your normal charger. Can make a 12V25Ah pack for about 100 bucks which will last you forever.
Old car batteries make a cheap option, too. If they do not start your car but still can deliver less amps for some xx Wh you may just give them a second life charging your drones with no additional costs.
Hey JB you've neglected to focus on an average day of flying. At which point you can refresh any of your chosen devices. If a smaller (cheaper) battery can provide the required amount of charge its cost ratio is surely better. Most fpv folk I know run 8000 - 16000 mah 6s batteries. Surely the calculation for field charging is: How many packs do I fly and therefore how big a battery do I need (to hold this charge) combined with the question of how many flight packs do you need, to not be grounded this would be based on knowing your preferred charge rate/ charging habits (parallel charging, dual port chargers etc). This product is only useful if you need a generator but don't like noise.
This is a really good perspective. This video started with me wanting to check the value proposition of the ReLiOn solution, so I focused on things that were similar in Wh capacity. But you definitely don't need 900+ Wh for a typical day of charging.
1700 deep cycles on a deep cycle lead acid sounds very, very optimistic, perhaps more advertising than actual reality. Max depth of discharge for long life on deep cycle lead acid is generally regarded as 50%, and cycle life more like 300-500 at that level. Moreover the life is limited by the chemical processes in the battery to about six years which means you may not get full use out of it before it becomes a doorstop. The cheapest lead acid are the flooded type which are not good for moving around, will spill badly if tipped, and generally develop corrosion from the acid mist near the caps. Better for transportation are the AGM or Gel type but cost goes way up and the weight is still there. LiFePO4 batteries lasts a lot longer, and are a lot lighter. Many sizes are available to fit the daily need and the 12V is ideal for powering portable field chargers without a lot of expensive extra features.
You so missed the opportunity to say "I'm out of breath, and you're gonna learn something today."...!
I really like your username. 🥦
"I'm Joshua Bardwell, and today I'm going to get a hernia."
If you know how to build battery packs and live in USA you can get dirt cheap salvaged cells. I got a 12s 20ah lipo out of a hybrid Mercedes with 95% life left (I'm getting close to 19ah after 2 years use on an ebike) for $100 from BatteryHookup. The only thing that killed me was the shipping and import duties to Canada.
Love the shirt! Great video as always...
My GF finaly bought me a birthday that I honesty liked.. 4 new lipo packs of my favourite brand!
Also I just did the math, my old 12V 20Ah lead acid battery is totally beaten up.. if it was new I could charge 12 of my packs.. plus 4 charges of the full packs I yake to the field... I either break something long before that or fly myself dizzy.. I have never flown more that 10 in a row... I would need to order pizza to the field..
But you also have to buy the flight packs anyways. They are borderline exposable. If you buy 3x as many flight packs you have, they will last probably more flight days, since they are used less.
You also have the advantage to not have to do stuff in the field and handle the charger, but can do it at home where you can focus on the thing.
kinda agree, but you have to deal with discharging them when you don't go through all the packs you bring out in the field, which can be a pain in the ass.
@@prottentogo then you have to bring more drones ;)
I like the little gas one . . everyone can charge . . couple peeps at a time . . gas is cheap too with that amount of power and convenience! love it bard . . convenience is king in situation !
great for planes and stuff too , many lipo charging applications. especially out at a flying field ! get AMA !
Where is the spreadsheet and graph comparison? That will really send the message home ;)
What would you say would be the lowest power, inexpensive Power Station you can get that would still be worth buying? I’m seeing a lot of these hit the market now and with prime day coming up I’ll bet they’ll be some great deals.
I've spent a thousand on way worse things. I consider it if I did a lot of flying away from power. Nice unit. I could probably convince my wife it's for camping.
I have always liked the deep cycle batteries in spite of the weight.
I got a small 144 watt hour lead acid battery for 27 bucks. While I could have easily got a lipo pack for this size it would have been so much more money and 144 watt hours is all I need. It ends up coming out at a cool 18.75 cents per watt hours so it’s a good deal too. And it’s only 8 pounds as it’s a smaller pack
Great info JB.
Hey @Joshua Bardwell how old is that baby now? Seems like I've been seeing that outro for a while now. My baby is 7months and loves to "help" me work on my drones & planes. I even gave him his own whoop and he carries it around in his walker. I even have a picture of him trying to use my wowstick.
i support the relion if u take into consideration it can power not only sure batteries but also sure trips and if ure the wild fpv pilots who go out deep in the mountains or desert and sure gonna camp for the night then u can use the relion to power the light or sure induction stove
I saw the ReLiOn at Rampage it was very well built but I would buy 2200 watt Honda generator first. Personally I just bring more flight packs.
Tried to comment earlier, but it got eaten by the spam filters. Not sure what I'm saying is triggering them.
Ecoflow tends to run some trickery with their Li-Ion battery packs. I have their River Pro, and they rate it to 800 cycles, but they did some trickery and hold some capacity in reserve to extend the cycle life at the cost of per charge life.
I can't use its full 720Wh because of it - only like 590 or so.
You can also get other power stations for as little as $0.50/Wh.
I recently purchased an electric car (Ioniq 5) and voila, I have a humungus battery pack everywhere!
Regarding the car and deep cycle batteries, I just wanted to point out that a 10ft 10AWG extension cord only has .3V drop at 14V/20A. If you know what you're doing, you can put a deep cycle in a battery box in your trunk and it will charge and maintain just by driving your car. You can add an isolator ($30 @AutoZone) to prevent it from draining your car's main battery when the car is turned off.
But if you don't have or drive a car, then this is all moot.
Joshua have you looked at Antigraviti batteries. They are crazy lightweight and powerful
If you can't be near an outlet or your car, this technology may be the only way to pull off flying all day, but I couldn't justify the cost unless I was heavily into overlanding or camping as well. What about coupling this with a folding solar panel?
RE: carb cleaning..... use fuel stabilizer and run it through the system before you store it for the winter.
Electric car owner here...I just plug my regular lipo charger into the 110V outlet of my car and charge as normal. My car can "idle" all day with basically no range loss and because it's electric, also no pollution!
So problem solved, just drive electric cars and don't worry about it!
Your name must be Marie Antoinette.
I can only recommend buying a normal LiFePO4 battery if you don't need the functionality of a powerstation.
I have a small 25Ah 12V (half)block, which is small and light (7 pounds/3kg) enought to fit in my backpack and can easily charge my 4 flight packs twice (with 2C) at 80% DoD. LiFePo4 batteries are also much more robust (physically and chemically) than lipos, so that I don't have to care about bringing it to storage voltage or it setting my house on fire. Also the one you have is really expensive, I paid 150 for my 320Wh one, which works out to about 0.5$ per Wh, and there are even cheaper options.
And I don't know where you got that 1700 cycles for a lead acid battery from, but at 80% DoD you are looking at a few hundred at best. A high DoD kills Lead acid batteries very quickly and together with the other problems like the high weight, reduced capacity at high discharge speed and the need to trickle charge them, they are only worth it, if you can't afford the alternatives.
I have been sorely tempted to replace the batteries in my electric gate opener with LiFePO4. They're charged off a solar panel but the charging circuit is not really very smart and I have had to replace them at least once because they were allowed to over-discharge. With the stable chemistry, large capacity, and integrated BMS of the ReLiOn packs, it seems like the perfect answer.