Is this the real reason we should be fitting AFDDs? - Arc Fault Detection Devices
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- The use of AFDDs (Arc fault detection devices) will increase with the latest version of the UK wiring regulations. BS7671 18th Edition Amendment 2. AFDDs now need to be fitted to socket circuits in specific residential electrical installations -e.g. HMOs, student accommodations and high rise buildings.
In this video, Gary Hayers poses the question - are AFDDs intended to protect the fixed wiring or the appliances connected to socket outlets?
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00:00 Arc Fault Detection Devices in BS7671 18th Edition Amendment 2
00:18 What is the roll of the AFDD?
00:53 Why we fit RCDs
01:31 Wiring in MICC (pyro) cable
02:19 It's getting hot
02:39 Tripping an AFDD but not an RCBO
03:23 Arcing energy
04:45 Are we smuggling in AFDDs..?
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REVEALED: The Secrets of an Arc Fault Detection Device AFDD • REVEALED: The Secrets ...
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#efixx #electricians #afdds 
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REVEALED: The Secrets of an Arc Fault Detection Device AFDD ruclips.net/video/HJU2pmW-rS4/видео.html
Never heard of an AFDD before but watching this video immediately makes me think this would help protect people when using a ‘granny’ charger for charging an electric vehicle. I’ve heard many a horror story and constantly amazed at the number of folks in EV forums who think it’s perfectly safe to charge an EV night after night using a charger on a 3 pin plug. Maybe it could be with an AFDD. As the number of EVs continues to grow I can see the calls for mandating an AFDD for sockets potentially used for EV charging to grow also.
That is a really good call Nigel... a lot of people will just plug them into a normal socket. Normal sockets are NOT designed for constant load at 10+ amps (they USED to be back in the days of 3kw bar heaters). That's why BS7671 specifies a socket marked for EV charging (available from BG amongst others).
Many factors affect safety both in the home and outside. Fire risks were gradually diminished during the 20th Century. A brief timeline may help put AFFD’s into context.
The 20th century top fire risks were slowly abated through various changes. Less open fires, less smoking, fireproof furniture coverings and so on. With naked flame and smouldering risks reduced attention turned to Electrical fires, because they hadn’t been diminishing in the same way.
Top of the 20th century causes list were incorrectly fitted 13 amp plugs. That risk is now virtually eliminated because all kit has to be fitted with the plug before it can be sold in the UK.
The 17th edition, which became the EuroNorm, was brainstormed by a very diverse group of people. Many of the things listed at that time were long term aspirations and other issues weren’t picked up.
Class 1 kit was still very much in use, [it’s mostly expired now?]. Electrocutions were not unknown, including those caused by long leads and water. Technically it was possible to fit a current balance into a tall mcb housing but ( even in a double width profile) very expensive. Thus the halfway house of split consumer units came along. Gradually things improved in terms of reduced electrocutions. Miniaturisation and mass production cut the costs of rcbo’s so each circuit can now have it’s own without too much pain.
Concerns about grounding faults in the 20th century lead to plastic consumer units replacing metal. More recently monitoring threw up the increasing prevalence of consumer units smouldering (or worse). The obvious switch to metal boxes will probably be effective over time, but cavity penetration through inadequate back of box fire stopping could be an upcoming issue.
A general picture of smouldering related to contact resistance has been around for a long time. Those 13amp plugs headline but all screw terminals have been involved. The picture clearly shows that connections using 2 screws were less likely to be involved but beyond that there are so many types of failure to be addressed. Any arcing contact emits a radio frequency signal as well as sound and causes measurable fluctuating current flow.
Careful use of ferrules and torque screwdriver should virtually eliminate wiring box arcing and sparking. Correctly installed AFDD’s will pick up any arcing above the detection threshold of that particular type of AFDD.
Time will lead to improvements in flaw detection. Ultimately we can expect to see Contactors feeding circuits which are monitored by a computer through sensors clipped to each conductor: but that’s a way off yet.
The safety of Fire Fighters was one area not picked up at the 17th edition. The deaths of Fire Fighters entangled by copper strands dropped from melted Plastic fittings and trunking were (with hindsight) avoidable. Retrofitting with metal hold-tights is an urgent task.
I have just watched JWs second video on AFDDs he spent 35 minutes or so trying to get an AFDD to trip with no such luck. And after watching it I think you’re right these things are to protect appliances even though it did not work . JW for me has single handedly proved that AFDDs are a waste of time and money. His test was a a real live test using an electric heater and after 35 minutes he just could not get the thing to trip .
eFIXX might argue that the previous tests have the flaw that they haven't taken into account the carbonization which is part of the signature that these devices detect in order to trip.
@@obd6HsN I think the most interesting thing is around the carbonisation issues. This can be avoided by better cable selection i.e. LZF T&E (basically anything other than PVC) so it would seem more sensible and likely to have a wide-ranging benefit to start phasing out PVC in fixed wiring as LZF insulation does not carbonise in the same way PVC does.
I do agree however that if AFDDs are able to prevent white goods fires then they are a very worth wile safety investment and it would be better to mandate their installation on all circuits where the likely appliance falls into this category. It is rather disappointing that they (the IET) did not phase out PVC insulation for fixed wiring and include the requirement for AFDDs in a circuit likely to supply white goods as those are the areas that drive the increased risk rather than premises type. Based on costs these changes would have fallen into the category of reasonably practicable, anyway here's to the future when these changes might come.
Makes you wonder why genuine manufacturers like Electrium, invest hundreds of thousands of pounds annually on there UKAS/ASTRA test laboratories backed up by multi million pound research and development facilities in Germany when all they needed was some plastic conduit and two copper glands. Please don’t buy into JW’s crude testing rigs, I can guarantee they don’t produce the correct conclusion.
That it's almost always the neutral is also my observation! I don't know why, but here it's the same thing.
As soon as you plug something in it becomes part of the installation. Such things like MCBs were mostly to protect the cables of the fixed installations, with the exception of class 1 appliances with a line to housing fault also protecting people from coming in contact with live exposed parts, but RCDs and AFDDs are also able to protect the plugged in devices in addition to protecting the fixed installation. And especially RCDs, I think most times they prevent people from getting shocked by faulty plugged in appliances.
There is no voltage at the neutral to cause the protection to trip, so it tends to suffer more heat damage until it goes open circuit and the load stops working or it causes enough damage to a live connection to cause a leakage current or breakdown to trip the protection. A fault on a live connection is more likely to generate a leakage current or breakdown and trip the protection much quicker and therefore not create the heat damage.
Here in the US they were initially only required in bedroom circuits. Part of the reason, I was lead to believe, was the propensity of ppl to use extension cords that may get frayed over time and start a fire.
But now we need them for all circuits 50amps or less. I’ve also noticed the insulation has become more flimsy since then. Lots of guys, apprentices, hammer staples down too hard and cause just the right amount of damage to the insulation, so it’ll work fine for years but then finally arc out and start a fire.
They are extremely expensive, doubling the cost of a service refit or upgrade. New codes coming out this year do allow a Home Run, initial feed off the panel, less then 50ft long to not be arc-fault protected so long as the receptacle is an afci device and marked as first outlet in the circuit….no ring circuits here. Those afci outlets are far less expensive.
Love learning how you guys do things in the UK. Helps give insight into even our own systems. Oh yeah, it’s nearly always the neutral that burns out lol. I think because that connection is after the load, its resistance generates more heat, over time this slowly oxidizes the metal further raising its resistance.
This is definitely going to be the main reason afdd's will operate.
I always show apprentices how to test polarity on sockets with an open top plug rather than testing terminals so high resistance can be identified in the outlets themselves, it happens so often that well used sockets cause Zs to be higher than the max. Unfortunately only experience seems to teach this one.
The other thing is, sparks who like to get easy money from an eicr miss a trick by not checking the outlets.
Yep, admission: used to be one of them, if the end to ends are fine... why worry...BZZT... best to check max Zs at all the sockets (that you can get to), it shows up worn out sockets etc
I know that there are differences between RCD/RCBO/GFCI's however here in the USA GFCI's protect the end devices as well. The classic hair dryer falls in the tub while someone is in there! I see AFDD/AFCI's in the same capacity as well. If we say that the extension cord has a fault in it, the AFDD will trip also. Same goes for that hair dryer that is arcing inside. I think with the next release / update you will see AFDD's in some if not all areas in the residential homes be required as well. Just as it was done in the US, it started out for only bedrooms, and each subsequent update, expanded into more and more areas. Now they are required for just about all breakers. Keep up the good work sir. 😁👍
It makes sense to me that there will be a long term push for AFDDs in domestic power circuits to provide increased protection for both the fixed wiring and appliances. As with all new technology the introduction is slow to allow the market to develop and refine the products and reduce costs before they become more mainstream. In industrial / commercial installations, there is a higher duty of care and there 'should' be a program of inspection for the appliances and the fixed wiring. In the domestic environment, fixed wiring will not be inspected on such a regular basis and there probably isn't any inspection of appliances, until the appliance either stops working or is no longer required and sold.
It would however be interesting to see sight of any research out there that would justify their installation in that they would prevent fires in circuits / appliances that are failing.
Hi Gary, enjoyed the video! Would be great to have more information on the process of how to fault find an Arc fault. Great if its visually obvious - but otherwise which test would identify the fault and allow you to track it? Thanks :)
Arc Fault circuit interrupter breakers are fitted here in Canada, are only there to protect bedroom circuits according to our electrical Code.
This just recently happened with my tumble dryer! Burnt out neutral but it tripped my run of the mill Fusebox RCBO thankfully only taking out the kitchen ring. Seems it was a dodgy moulded plug. Easy fix though thankfully.
Few years ago our washing machine was dead when turned on. First thoughtbwas the fuse in the plug, it wasn't. The ring mcb's hadn't tripped, ditto the rcd. So, the washing machine has it's own switched fuse controlling the socket, checked that, dead when switched on at the switched fuse. Fuse in the switched fuse was ok. Strange I thought! So, killed the mcb to that ring and took out the switch fuse, what I found made me go cold. The switch had arced and the whole thing was a molten mess, but nothing had tripped. Could have literally burnt the house down! The house was built in 1985 and the electrics and plumbing installs are a disgrace. They used the cheapest electrical fittings they could find, alot of the sockets are stiff to push plugs into, alot of the switches feel gritty. I replaced both switched fuses and sockets in the utility room with MK after that horror, and I'm gradually going through the whole house replacing all the fittings with MK. Would like to fit an AFDD but the box has no room.
There are combine RCD/AFDD/MCB devices around that take a single slot, just like an RCBO, so it doesn't have to take more space than a pure RCBO configuration and less space than a split RCD one.
It is, however, a pricey option. They are currently in the region of £100 a shot. There is also the issue of whether they are certified as backwards compatible for whatever box you have got. Mostly electricians just tend to want to replace the whole CU (and, after all, the box is relatively cheap). Then you get into all the extra costs that appear to bring bonding, tails and so on up to date. However, the good news is that the replacement box need be no larger than the current one if space is limited.
AFDD's and RCBO's are to protect the fixed wiring of an installation. Appliances and extension leads are covered by PAT's testing. Overheating of the socket is sometimes caused by an appliance or lead having a bad connection - Even the plug pin not connecting properly with the teminal inside the socket.
Meanwhile in the real world.
@@edc1569 ???????
Is there no standard there for the interface between the appliance/extension lead and the fixed wiring? I’m from the US, where AFDDs (AFCIs) became required basically everywhere in lieu of changing the structural factors that made fixed wiring suddenly more prone to failure. So here codes require them for lighting, etc, but discussion of the idea a still-listed type of receptacle/switch connector is the only fixed wiring factor that changed is anathema. So although the appliances and extension leads are not nominally protected by our AFCIs, pro-AFCI messaging centers on “cord under a rug gets walked on” usage scenarios. As we all know, high resistance receptacle to plug is where the most opportunity for arcing failures exist in terms of sheer volume of interactions over the lifetime of a recep, but no group would dare officially admit to intending a device to protect that least-controllable interface!
@@Rishnai Yes there is. Some tests can reveal a poor connection between a socket and lead. This should be discovered when a periodic inspection is done by using the various tests available. One method it can be discovered through is our Earth Loop Impedance Test.
"AFDD's and RCBO's are to protect the fixed wiring of an installation."
That nonsense. An RCD is there primarily to protect people, otherwise why was it first made mandatory for special locations like bathrooms? There's nothing in the wiring of a bathroom which makes that particularly vulnerable, it's the presence of lots of water and a damp environment which makes it potentially lethal to people. The fixed wiring doesn't care at all.
The current limit is set at no more than 30 mA, as that will prevent the great majority of fatal shocks. If it was just about fixed wiring, then the limit could be a lot higher (and where RCDs are used solely to protect the installation, then they can be higher).
The terrible fire that caused so many deaths at Grenfell Tower, was attributed to a fridge freezer catching fire, probably in the manner shown. 😧 and maybe if fitted an AFDD could have prevented the small problem, a broken fridge freezer, having such deadly consequences
Of course you could just improve appliance standards, the flammability of a lot of fridges is horrendous
It was due to the fact that the residents, fire brigade, local authority and government are all fucking stupid.
When I was in halls of residence in 2001, we were told that we must leave the building when the fire alarm sounded and go outside and all stand at the assembly area.
Being students, the fire alarm was set off almost every other night as a joke, being fed up half of my hall decided to go back to bed.
It was again another false alarm, but the warden and the firemen went through us like a ton of bricks and we nearly got kicked out of the University for it.
From that point on I took it seriously and whenever I lived in a flat I always have a small fire extinguisher and also bought myself a fire escape hood.
That building was concrete, but the stay in place design rationale is suicide in my opinion.
stay in place is in my opinion always dangerous, and only introduced as a cost saving in order to not rebuild premises with a single escape route incapable of mass evacuation. standard response should always be; fire = get out
@@Satters and yet they can find almost unlimited funds to support banks and the financial sector when they mess everything up!
Grenfell started due to a fridge fire . But it would never of breached the compartmentation if they hadn’t changed the cladding. They basically left open cavity at windows allowing fire to breach the cavity and reach the insulation ( a solid paraffin block tons of it ) the manufacturer has openly admitted they faked the fire results and it was them that led the government on the push for energy efficiency in buildings. THE STAY PUT WORKS FINE in buildings that have propper compartmentation in place .
its nice to see a clare test instrument in the background its rare you see a good british test instrument still being used in a prouduction environment. i though i was the only person still using them.
AFCI's (as we call them here in America) have been in our electric code since 1999 (Canada adopted them around the same time). So they aren't really "new." They were invented in the late 80's. Industry began working on commercial products in the 90's and by the late 90's they were shipping products. Then in 1999 our national electric code adopted them for bedrooms (only bedrooms then). In 2006 industry came out with the "combination" AFCI breaker which means they added series arc detection to them (early ones were only parallel). Since that time our code has expanded them to most every circuit in a residential setting.
One thing is they are a lot less expensive here (probably because they've been on the market a lot longer). Your average 15A AFDD/RCD combo breaker is around $50 here. Of course, we are on 120V (for residential) so that might play into it. (Actually our residential has 240V coming off the transformer but we split it into two separate 120V legs with both legs sharing a neutral. We use both legs when we need to power a 240V device like a large appliance or HVAC system. But our standard outlets that the homeowner interacts with on a regular basis are all 120V at 15 or 20A).
Considering the UK is very strict with electrical safety, I am surprised they were slow to adopt. Perhaps there were too many problems with the earlier units for them to bother. Lack of standardization is still a problem.
Had a big meltdown on our shower pull cord switch recently.I hadnt fitted it but inspection showed a poor load contact that must have arched and melting the swich and damaged some cable running to the shower.It didnt trip at the CU.Replaced it all and good since.The shower was not damaged.
This is very common, but shower circuits are not where the fitment of AFDDs is recommended. 40A AFDDs do exist, and if we now had an electric shower in our house that would be one of the few places I'd actually be interested in having one installed.
@@mowcius As a matter of caution I changed the breaker anyway suspecting it was faulty because to me it should have thrown.It was alarming how much damage could have happened.Luckily just a new switch and 2 meters of cable to the shower via its original and bona fida route.
Correct cable btw as was the original .
Looking at the amount of car chargers being fitted and the possibility of arc faults in the cables being constantly wrapped up, walked on, temperature variations, unplugging/plugging in etc I can personally seeing them being extremely useful in that situation. Even though you have the earth leakage coverd this is just extra layers of safety. Cost will be the issue though but scale of manufacture will hopefully bring that down.
A car on board charger is quite a clever load with power factor correction and a bunch of diagnostics being performed while it’s charging, I can’t imagine it not immediately shutting off if the supply cables began to arc, with them immediately dropping the pilot signal, disconnecting the supply.
@@edc1569 I totally agree with you there intelligent systems, but it's only monitoring what is happening on board the vehicle hence the earth fault leakage test on the supply side. I think this is as said an extra layer of safety for the installation and the vehicle, would you want to be woken up in the night because an arc fault has burned your EV to the ground? As long as the EV can see voltage it just carries on drawing current.
I see a lot of carbonised fittings , sockets for heaters and dishwashers also shower switches, i think an afdd should be to protect the fixed installation and anything connected to it, esp in a kitchen where most appliances are tucked away in units.. i can see something similar coming out fitted to the head as EV's roll out more and more
No car on board charger is going to keep working with the horrendous power quality that’s being delivered by an arcing supply, it’ll start blinking the red LED and tell you to plug in elsewhere.
True, but won't stop the rest of the household operating if there was a loose tail or overheated main switch etc.. Joe public will just assume the car charger is faulty and carry on like normal
Do all AFDDs use the same technology and algorithms to detect arc signatures, or are some likely to be better than others?
In short, no, and yes.
They’ll be plenty of trading house suppliers, Fusebox, Scolemore, Cudis ect..importing AFDDs, none of whom will have any manufacturing or testing experience of the devices. Just a race to bottom on price. We will only sell Electrium AFDD devices because we know the Siemens software and microprocessors in the devices is tried and tested. My local salesman for Wylex says there are over 150,000 of their AFDDs already installed and operating in the UK now.
They are all unique and proprietary.
@@pigrew so that’s a “yes” then, some AFDDs may perform better than others… 🤔
(I'm in the USA) With the AFCI devices a few years ago, they were all microcontroller based, each company has its own firmware. There was not even a "standard" test signal that meter manufacturers could use to test the AFCI that is guaranteed to work with all manufacturers. Perhaps someone like TI will create a AFCI/AFDD ASIC that many manufacturers will adopt, so will share the same algorithm, but I don't think that's happened yet.
Some will perform better than others (in terms of both false positives and false negatives)
Still only recommended in domestic applications due to 'less risk of significant loss' compared to commercial installations. How ironic that the 'The Wiring Regulations Requirements BS 6761' seems to mandate and place the emphasis on commerce above what you would think the very regulations are designed to protect (Part 4).....
Would fitting AFDDs within a thatched cottage provide adequate protection for the fixed wiring from vermin in the loft? Eg stopping fire caused to damaged cable catching thatch on fire (carbonised)
It should help & I'd be doing it if it were me.
I had as much wiring as possible in the thatched spaces moved out so only basic ceiling lighting remains - and this is *all* singles running in steel conduit.
Let's raise the standard to such a level it cant be pratted about with anymore then we can get rid of these tosses playing around with amendments and us guys keeping them in an over paid job. I'm happy to go along for the good of the industry but let's do it right the first time.
Im wondering if AFDDs influence devices that rely on the 50hz, such as some plug in clocks and older televisions
Why would they? They don’t distort the AC.
If anything would, the SPDs would, but that’s a different class of device altogether. But of course SPDs don’t affect synchronous motors either.
@@JasperJanssen SPDs only "intervene" if there are excessive voltage spikes, which are not part of the normal waveform. They have absolutely no effect on anything remotely normal.
so the obvious question is now going to be this:
1, will these require a cu change or will can i get someone to retro fit these to my original unit?
followed by:
2, at what point with the regs/rules demand that these are fitted everywhere?
thanks
That will depend on whether your consumer unit manufacturer has compatible equipment, and you've got space in your CU if they're larger devices (many are still doubles rather than singles).
Initially this could go down the same route as RCD'S did , you can fit a separate enclosure next to the consumer unit and put an AFDD in that , doesn't have to be a matching maufacturer to the mcb in the dis board. Been doing this for years with EICR remedials where rcd protection is required for bathroom circuits but an RCBO isn't available or is cost prohibitive ( memera 2000 etc)
Would it make any difference, or would better quality accessories be better,
See that melted pins on sockets a lot, always a fan heater. Its odd that a heater rated properly seems to cause this melting.
Plug and socket may be rated for that current, but they have one weakness: Flat contacts. Small variations in constructions can cause them to only make contact along a small line instead over the whole area. Small accumulations of dirt can do the same, or even reduce the contact are to a point. If this happens on one side of the contact, it's not an issue---there's still the other side. But flat contacts can have this happen on both sides, and once you get a continuous load that exceeds what those two contact lines can safely provide...
That's why some think plugs with round contacts are better. Those are designed for two contact lines from the beginning.
Just one of the reasons I want to upgrade to AFDD with SPD protection.
AFDD might protect an untorqued AFDD... ;)
thats what the plug on my tumble dryer ended up looking like and that was caused by an old warn out socket
I disagree that LED lights won't top 2.5A. High frequency currents (such as arcing) can cause surges much higher than the 'rated current' to flow, due to the capacitive elements in the circuit, this is why LED drivers often fail with a dodgy arcing switch, so if it's a SERIES arc on a lot of LED lighting, it could well reach the threshold. (just my 2p worth as an electrician who also studied electronics)
So what protects the afdd from its own arc faults should it fail.. 🤔
You won't get any arcs in it. It's low voltage digital circuitry except for the internal PSU. And it's permanently fitted and a low current device, so no metal contacts to wear and gaps to increase in separation through wear.
The claim that RCD protection was presented as being primarily to protect the fixed wiring was surely never made. Plug-in RCD devices were common for connecting things like electric lawnmowers and power tools long before it was mandated for fixed wiring. RCDs were first required for special areas, like bathrooms before being a general requirement. Why would bathrooms be mentioned at all if the primary aim was not the protection of people?
Even over-current protection had a role outside fixed wiring. What about a 3A fuse in a table lamp? Prior to the current square pin standard, there were several sizes of BS546 plugs with different ratings for different types of uses. Those were about protection of what was plugged in, not just the circuits.
So, I think this is a faulty premise from the start.
doesn't really matter if the load on a lighting circuit doesn't get to 2.5A, the circuit can still deliver more than that.
It doesn't matter what it can deliver, only what current actually flows. The arc is in line with the consumer, so it is current limited by that consumer.
While an AFDD probably could also detect an arc between live and neutral or live an PE, that's not its job.
@@HenryLoenwind By consumer, I presume you mean a load? Or do you mean series? I don't understand your first bit.
An L-E or N-E fault should be picked up by rcd if amps are within it's rating.
I'm stating as per the video and the fella said it need 2.5 Amps to trip plus the discusion of protecting pluged in apliances and whether it works on such a low loaded circuit such as lights. Grenfeld etc. Most modern pluged in stuff commonly have L-N arching faults rather that L-E as they are double insulated and often galvanicaly isolated againts shock but crap fron't end ac to dc convertion, PFC and noise mitigation. Tat from china basicaly. So my point being a crap chinese light bulb can fault L-N and use all available power on the lighting circuit a MCB will allow, 6 amps. An AFDD will alow 2.5 Amps of L-N arcing before trigering, That 650 watts of an arc. I don't see that stoping a fire in plug in item. I do see it protecting the building wiring however.
@@UberAlphaSirus But the 2.5 amps minimum to trigger the AFDD, the maximum disconnect time is 1 second. So not likely to start a fire.
Damn neutrals... I run my clothes dryer off a short 2.5 metre long rigid 20A rated cable, 15A rated plug and socket, extension lead in the garage, because the power points in a spot the dryers plug just wont reach, the socket end is clear, I've noticed the neutral pin looks black, the active (line) still looks nice new brass colour, its never shorted, its never failed, its all from 12yr usage thats caused that (funny thing is the dryer has very flimsy flex too)
A neutral is an active, load-carrying wire. It is not like the earth wire. That it was the neutral that got damaged is likely just random.
nb. 15A rated sounds like that must be a very old round-pin plug...
AFDD's are too expensive - they will come down in price. However, a great opportunity has been missed. There are too many crusty shower pull switches connections that have issues or faults on higher power items such as cookers and ovens where mechanical switches or even relays can arc out. They should be on any circuit supplying a fixed resistive load - not just sockets. And with the inevitable switch to electric heating where conventional convector or radiant heaters may be used, again, a missed opportunity. Just my 2p's worth. Agreed that they are pretty pointless for a modern lighting circuit. And how long before we start going for battery storage systems with DC wired from a central source - be it battery, solar or whatever. The wiring colour changes for such things are already starting to appear....
Can we fit these and then sack off the pointless PAT testing exercises so many businesses waste their money on?
One of the most important parts of PAT (which many people and businesses miss/ignore) is the visual check of equipment. Fitting AFDDs won't ever change that requirement.
@@mowcius problem is I’ve seen PAT testers slap stickers on equipment that’s in a terrible state, as far as they’re concerned if the machine says it’s ok, its ok. In my office I’ve seen dodgy Amazon extension leads with unprotected “universal” sockets and deathdapters with approval stickers on them, I doubt I’m special.
I do wonder if the 13amp socket outlet could use another update . A more positive retaining cut out shape for a spring loaded retainer mechanism say in the earth pin to help keep it fully engaged. Such a socket would still allow the old existing types meanwhile.
I'd just go Schuko (or Type E if you want polarity). That plug already is widely used in continental Europe. Nearly all devices available with UK plugs are also manufactured with CEE 7/7 plugs and there's a massive variety of outlets available. Plug adaptors (even some designs that are safe) are also readily available.
That would be a rather painless transition. The biggest issue being that the wall box (54 mm round) is different. (Edit: The shape difference is harmless, those 54mm fit into the existing boxes, so a trivial adapter could be used. It's the depth difference that's problematic. UK outlets are only about half as deep because the plug body sits on top.)
@@HenryLoenwind Schuko does not have polarisation. It's a fundamental weakness. It also does not have fusing which can be tailored to the type of flexi cable, so a thin table lamp cable is protected only by the 16A breaker, and not supplemented by an appropriate (say 3A) fuse as well.
Schuko also has a smaller wiped contact area than the BS1363 plug, and if anything will be more vulnerable to arcing.
That's without even going into the issues of having a country with two entirely incompatible plug systems.
Schuko is an inferior system. Whilst it was good at the time it was produced, it is not now.
Right so I plug in my small Arc welder the DIY type . Will the AFDD Detect an arc signature and trip.
What do you mean the real reason? Isn’t it pretty much the only reason?
Sorry just not convinced.
The damage to that plug and socket was due to overheating,
Most likely due to a faulty appliance or a bad connection in the plug top can’t see how it would trip an AFDD . If AFDDs only need a minimum of 2.5amp to trip then every time we plug something in or unplug the AFDD would be constantly tripping as we get arching every time we plug in or out and every time we flick a switch . Don’t get me wrong I not saying they are a total waste of time, just not needed on domestic installations . But who am I to argue i’am just a humble spark who’s opinion means nothing.
Great video as always Gaz 👍👍❤️
100 % agree AFDD WOULD NOT TRIP
The AFDD works by analysing the waveform , it's not just a simple measurement of current.
BS 62606 on AFDD's contains a set of tests to verify that the AFDD does not falsely trigger on certain types of load scenario.
It's quite hard to get an AFD to trigger in a test scenario.
We wouldn't need afdd for crumby electrics if it wasn't for.. questionably safe, bare minimum, barely and sometimes out of spec Chinese clone microcircuitry created and finding its way into hands of the crafty penny pinching Brit who sees a bargain but doesn't stop to question the integrity and design quality of what they are buying - example most of wish and some of the shadily worded eBay listings...
I stand by the previous comment I made in previous afdd video about longevity for the exact reasons above but instead of the Chinese factories being .. naughty.. slight miscalculations and pushing devices a bit too close to their maximum. Note hive devices a shot key diode just dying and that's all it is. Or was it a capacitor. (not user serviceable.. unless your handy with a soldering iron) Either way, replace that and the rest is fine but that relates to my point in previous video
We need to stop buying cheap tat. And somehow educate those that insist on it that cheap CAN mean dangerous.
Anyway, in short, I believe these things are great and would, I expect to at least help in arcing issues in sockets where high draw devices/appliances are plugged in and reduce fueds of who set the kitchen on 🔥
Note: worn out sockets are an obvious given and loose terminals. Ofc
We should stop buying cheap unsafe Chinese electrical products, but arcing occurs in socket outlets because the wires come loose.
role*
I hope they have some protection for the connected equipment, especially as it was the glenfell fire was a big push for it. As it was I was told a white goods that caused the issue
You "can't fix stupid" so good technology has to try and overcome that. However, 13A sockets with components made out of "monkey metal" don't help either.. rather than good quality copper as in days gone bye.
When idiots install 3kw heaters an put them on a 13amp then things melt maybe we need to stop people who don’t know what they are doing, working on the electrics. The other issue is people ain’t got the money
The thing there is they come pre wired on a plug...
@@arcadia1701e they don’t come pre wired on a plug
@@brightside0970 Some things do. We got the same problem here in Germany with the Schuko plug. That one is rated 10A permanent and 16A for short-time (test period is 1h). The problem is the appliances draw 16A for a longer period of time. Best example is the oven in the kitchen. Now these days people want the hob at a different location than the oven, so they're two different appliances. The hob is still connected to the cooker circuit, which is usually a three-phase 3x16A circuit, and the oven by a socket outlet on a separate circuit or hooked up on the cooker circuit: L1 and L2 for the hob, oven connected to L3. Even if it's three-phase, the appliances are still 230V. Only the load is distributed evenly on the three phases. Having the advantage of putting in such copper bridges to use these appliances also on single phase cooker circuits.
Personally I always hardwire these ones.