Arguably financial stability also plays a role in live organ donation. Can you afford to take time off work? Can you afford the medications? Can you afford the hospital stay? Can you afford the care necessary if something goes wrong? I suppose growing in animals would solve that problem
@@PatataMaxtex Agreed. I have an acquaintance in the UK who is waiting for a liver - when/if one becomes available the surgery and care are fully covered by the Crown
Just the other day, I read about a country (can't remember which) which uses default opt-in organ donor consent; when a person reaches the age of 21 years old, they are automatically assumed to give consent unless they specifically opt-out. Those who opt-out will get lower transplant list priority if they ever need a transplant. I think this makes things much more equitable.
@patrickmccurry1563 Not really... my body MY choice. All this sounds like is private corporations, once again, forcing people to literally sell parts of their body and life just to qualify to EXIST in the real world, all while THEY make bank doing it. Don't be mistaken... in the Netherlands, healthcare is 100% private, even more private than the US healthcare system. The only people that benefit from this law are the private corporations that now have a GOVERNMENT MANDATED free unlimited source of organs that they don't need to spend money to hunt down.
@patrickmccurry1563 Personally it sounds like "well... you either LET me ra*e you, or the government will come down here with guns, and prevent you from EVER having consensual sex again". Either you give up YOUR organs FOR FREE to a PRIVATE BUSINESS, or the government comes down with guns and prevents you from EVER receiving medical treatment that you are actually MANDATED by law to pay PRIVATE insurance for.
I'm actually donating my whole body to science... I have no use for it once I'm dead and I've some relatively rare health issues that baffle doctors on how I'm still alive and healthy at 45 when I should have been dead by 8 or 9 yo. So, in a weird way, I'm excited that they might discover how I made that work... unfortunately, I'll be dead and won't be able to read the report! :D
Your body most likely will go to a human butcher shop and sold for parts, it's unfortunately unlikely for those organ harvester organizations to harvest you organs in time, unless you die in a hospital bed. The most likely scenario would be that your body sold for parts like skeletons for bizarre shows or to a live audience corpse dissection not performed for medical science but just for a bizarre show. None of it will go to save lives or towards advancement in medical science. Go watch "Last Week Tonight", They explained it all.
I'm surprised no one has said this yet, but make sure you speak to a lawyer and have an iron-clad contract (or whatever it is that governs how your body is treated after death). There are some horror stories, like that of the woman whos body was blown up by the military for science. Which is the exact opposite of what the woman would have wanted her body to be used for. Or the guy whos body was available for any paying customer to cut up. If you want your body to be donated specifically for research on the health issues you have, you have to specify that for sure. And then what happens if no one wants it for that specific purpose? etc. And there's lots of other stuff to consider. Definitely do a LOT of googling and talking to experts about this subject.
Be careful in choosing who you donate it to. There are fewer regulations than you might think. What you donate your body for could wind up not being what it is used for. It doesn’t help that human body parts are extremely valuable monetarily. Some universities have good reputations for non-profit, respectful use of donated bodies, and will even cremate and return the remains when they are done with them so that families can have something to bury/scatter. But sometimes schools, hospitals, and especially funeral homes, are a lot less ethical and transparent, so do your research and don’t take things at face value. There’s a pretty good podcast series about this: “Cover Up: Body Brokers,” by The Binge. It examines a particular funeral home’s terrible practices, but it also goes in depth into body brokering as an industry. Toward the end, it looks at one university that is doing things right.
I spent many years working in a dialysis unit and saw both the immense suffering of people with end stage renal disease (note, their family share that suffering) and the incredible relief that comes from not being tied to a machine many hours a week. Transplantation is amazing but it is itself at treatment, not a cure. I fully support on going research as long as there are strong ethical guardrails which are never stronger than the persons enforcing them. However, a lot of kidney failure is preventable by treating the underlying diseases that cause it---hypertension, diabetes, etc. We don't spend nearly enough doing so. Access the medical care is far from universal and there are profound differences in treatment outcomes based on income, race, zip code, etc. If we truly want to spend our money where it will do the most good, it is in prevention.
Yeah if I'd had access to health care to control my lupus earlier i wouldn't have ended up on dialysis. It took me having permanent organ failure to qualify for the healthcare that would have prevented it.
Yeah I have hepatorenal syndrome. Liver failure causing kidney failure. I need a double transplant. Honestly the way I see it. I would allow science to have me grow extra organs to save people if they fed and housed me! 60k a year sounds fair, lol. Especially if it meant it allowed me to be born! I've always felt even a terrible life is better than no life. Make sure you guys go get yearly blood tests. Some diseases like to be asymptomatic till it is too late.
I have to say I disagree with the religious point, we already do medical procedures such as blood transfusions that some cultures and religions refuse to do because it goes against their beliefs. If they do not wish to do it, that is well and good, but that does not mean it should be unavailable for everybody because of a few
I have never understood the refusal of certain medical procedures by some religions. They say they will pray and god will save them …… but god already answered their prayers 🙄
The question being passed in that section wasn’t really should the research be done, but should it be done in pigs specifically. If it was another animal, it wouldn’t even come up. And when you’re talking about a taboo held by over a quarter of the world’s population, it is a relevant question of possibly being able to save far more lives if the research was conducted differently. To be clear, I don’t know if there is another option than pigs, who are already a second choice since we’re not using chimps. But it’s a worthwhile consideration.
@@ericeaton2386I don't know about all of the religions that prohibit pork, but IIRC both Islam and Judaism allow heart valve transplants from pigs so I'd imagine they'd allow this too
As someone whose husband is on such a waiting list - for a kidney, in fact - this is very interesting. And as someone who can't donate ANY organs now (I am diabetic, they won't even take my plasma), it's even more interesting. I can definitely see why plenty of folks have ethical reservations here. It'd be "better" if we could custom clone kidneys, maybe, but that research has its own multiple can-of-worms problems both scientifically and ethically.
Personally, I don’t see a difference to breeding pigs for eating. Well, actually instead of killing people indirectly via heart disease etc. breeding them for organ transplants would be more or less the opposite…🤔
@@harmonicaveronica It's possible the practitioner was exaggerating to me when he told me this, but, it seems that the damage to all tissues in the body from high blood sugar kinda ruins 'em. (I haven't researched it, partly due to spending that kind of time researching some other nearer priority care)
Most diabetics are rather poorly maintained. The doctor may have been making unfounded assumptions about your personal risk for nerve and organ damage. Not to mention that a lot of diabetic issues can go unnoticed for years. @@Beryllahawk
I recently had to revoke my organ donor consent because I got diagnosed with a genetic disorder. Kind of sad I won't be able to donate. My organs work fine.
Can't you still donate to science? I thought when you donate. You donate to a list of different things. It is actually crazy where your parts can go to. Some aren't really used for science, sadly.
I just got diagnosed with a genetic disorder and I can no longer donate either🥲 I have hypermobile EDS may I ask what you have? (You don’t have to answer)
Margaret Atwood predicted this back in 2003. Sus multiorganifer: informally known as the Pigoon because they were larger than normal pigs to accommodate the multiple sets of human organs grown within for use in transplants. From Oryx & Crake, an amazing book I strongly recommend.
another easy option for making more human organs available is to make organ donation opt-out instead of opt-in (like it is over here). if you care about not donating organs you can always opt-out in a quick and easy way, but in reality most people just don't even consider the issue or care much either way.
That's good and all, but all people who get transplants eventually die or Infection or Rejection, and even in countries with high donor rates it's a big popularity contest that people constantly lose We need to be pushing cloning human organs by growing them in other animals.
Honestly, these really only need to actually work in humans in the long-term and not produce any unwanted side effects on either the human patients or the animal donors in the process; any potential ethical issues outside of those criteria will be swiftly left at the door once they become cheap enough to genuinely run China's literal organ harvesting out of business, since they'll be way more ethical regardless than, y'know, *_literal organ harvesting._*
Really , what if it were possible to grow them in other humans, homeless people maybe, would you still be all for it? We need to stop looking at everything as a RESOURCE and start respecting ALL life , we are killing this planet and all its inhabitants including ourselves.
@@greenthumb8266 they are killing these animals in a rate that far surpasses every letter typed in your message per minute, so why not have something that has more uses than only food? cause food production will never stop, whether you like it or not, so why not make them a much more valuable than the breakfast sausages you eat with your eggs?
@@hopingforthebest1.9 I’ve lost more family in the last three years than I can count. Humans need to respect all life , period! And stop acting like the world is our toilet.
I would very much like a SciShow video about the ethical, legal, and logistical reasons why primates aren't used for these experiments and organ-growing plans, if they're theoretically better.
I work with primates and they are very expensive for one. Also they have high requirements for importation and how they are housed in captivity, because they get bored easily they need extra enrichment and stimulation. They can also be dangerous; macaques carry Herpes B, which can kill humans if they are exposed to it. Not to mention physically dangerous. Larger primates have to be sedated for every procedure, which isn’t great for them.
Hopefully they're all discovered to be dangerous in other ways as well. We should stick to harvesting from our own species, and stop imposing ourselves on anything we can force into it.@@ofthewilderwoods
@@neryskkiran1820 “harvesting” from people sounds really sick so I hope you’re talking about organ donations. And yes primates are dangerous, most of them have huge teeth and are very strong, so I don’t think they should be used in organ transfers, for ethical and practical reasons.
I read a (fantastic) YA scifi novel when I was 13 about organ donating. It remains one of my favorite series even over a decade later. And videos like this eerily mimicks some of the ideas and questions posed by the novels, which is really cool. And terrifying.
@conlon4332 Unwind by Neal Shusterman. It is geared towards young adults (ie teens), but its a fantastic series to read as an adult as well. Its main focus is on organ harvesting from (living) children using their parents consent to do it. It touches on alot of moral and ethical questions and issues that, looking back now as an adult, presented it really well for a young adult audience.
Part of the ethical concerns about using pig parts in medicine has already been extensively discussed and basically resolved, at least for people of the Jewish faith. Pig heart valves have been used extensively in medicine for decades. Basically the concept is that saving a human life trumps pretty much everything else. As well, the taboo is largely for *eating* pork, so if you want to be a language lawyer about it, technically you aren't actually "eating" pork products if you are receiving a transplanted organ or body part. Now some more ultra-orthodox Muslim readings state that you cannot *touch* a pig or pig flesh, and it's pretty hard to receive an organ transplant without touching it, so that complicates things a bit.
As far as religious views of animals that aren’t kosher being used for medicinal use I can speak first hand. Many years ago I was found to have a genetic disorder affecting my blood clotting. I went thru all of the first choice meds and still threw clots. Finally found one that worked Lovenox. It is obtained from “porcine intestinal mucosa” per the paperwork. Well I’m Jewish so I consulted with my Rabbi who told me the use of it is legal because my life depends on it. Other sects might be different and obviously other religions so I can only speak to my situation. Consult with your religious leaders if you find yourself in the same situation. Oh and my grandfather was diabetic. At that time insulin was sourced from porcine organs but again it’s required to save his life so it was permissible..
Since i was a teenager i always have a organ donor card in my wallet and one at home (you never know haha) and many die becouse of missing organs so i think scientist's should pursue the idea further!
My thoughts exactly. The people crying "Ethics!" and "Those poor animals!" will have bacon and eggs for breakfast, chicken tenders for lunch, and a steak for dinner today. Ridiculous.
@@davidmccarthy6061Animal Agriculture uses 77% of agricultural land but provides only 18% of global calories. It's ludicrously inefficient. Also as the other commenter pointed out, all the pondering of the ethical nature of this rings hollow when these people will pay for an animal to have their throat slashed open for a 10 minute meal. Non-vegan = animal abuser.
But there not using animal from industrial meat production these pigs are raised differently in labs where it more sanitary, but the studies in china are probably just random pigs from random farms, also what about all the parasites in pigs how do you stop them from infecting the kidneys
@@davidmccarthy6061that doesn’t make it ethical nor is it necessary. There is nothing derived from meat that cannot be met without here. Plants provide protein along with some fortification or supplementation. Taking the life of another sentient creature in the modern world is purely for taste pleasure and gluttony. And if you’re ostensibly “for” the advancements in science to grown an organ in an non-consenting being but against the moral imperative to choose the advancements in science to no longe r have to torture and mass murder billions of animals per year, then you have a major contradiction.
As someone who take care of the elders n meet their friends who have organ failure and relatives .. I’m all for this as I believed our body is like a car and it can’t run perfect forever and at some point it need replacement point period and waiting list is not a guaranteed options so we have to look at other options . If you think is ethical wrong that fine just don’t put urself into being the victim as one but for others the pains n suffering being on the waiting list and not to add even if there a donor matched it doesn’t guaranteed that your body accepts either . So by doing this and other u putting your own cells and it work might be better. What we need is research into this n other how effectives is it and making sure it really a perfect 10 b4 we say yeh it all good but inorder to do so we have to open doors for research like this instead of being afraid of what we don’t know yet .
First thing that's easier and far useful is to make organ donation opt out. People can sign a form to say they won't let their body be donated instead of the other way around. This is because 99% of people have no opinion either way, they just don't care to sign anything.
No religious texts have a prohibition against transplanting pig organs. Is there a well-studied, easily-bread, common human-sized domesticated mammalian omnivore they consider clean, which we should be using instead?
Otherwise humans esp. Europeans would run for your blood, meat, intestine, esophagus, bladder, skin, bone, kidney, liver, heart, lungs. People you are no longer nomads in the snow and wilderness. Why stick to uncivilized way of the flesh? This cooking culture through RUclips (bush meat and egg slurry) is now being aped in the east and is very worrisome. It is turning the tide against vegetarianism.
If humans are more closely related to rats then to pigs, and one reason that pigs are being investigated is that they closer in size to humans, then we OBVIOUSLY need to genetically engineer human-sized rats. It's logic!
10:45 Yeah, that's the good old insulin question simply reiterated. I'm surprised that researchers from these cultures haven't come up with non-pig alternatives yet. I mean, humanity is not FORCED to limit their research to pigs.
@@conlon4332 They extracted* insulin from ground pig pancreas. The pig needs it's pancreas to live. According to Wikipedia, eight ounces of purified insulin required two tons of pigs parts. Edit: extract to extracted. This is not how insulin is currently manufactured.
@@goodfortunetoyou "Insulin is produced using genetic engineering. Scientists cut and paste the human insulin gene into a plasmid, which can be used to transfer the gene into bacteria. The bacteria produce the insulin, which can then be isolated from the bacterial culture and given to patients." It's made synthetically in labs, using bacteria.
@@conlon4332 I was trying to be helpful in the context of the "insulin question" relating to pigs. The techniques in the 1920s were less advanced. Gene editing is cool though. Check Insulin_(medication)#Principles, third paragraph.
I am all for it - but one thing I would want answers would be the possible issue of virues and other things access to a DNA split between those animals to come closer to jumping over to us or over to them.
From a medical standpoint point, I love this idea!!! However, from a scientific standpoint, would this make it easier for disease to pass from animal to human and vice versa?
For pigs, there’s concern about porcine encephalitis, but they screen the pigs for that. Zoonotic diseases would be a huge issue if say, non-human primates were being used, tho.
Uhm people allready kill millins of them for meat consumption hiw would this be less ethical than the justification of the short term pleasure of earing a animal
before watching - I would say yes, especially if we can do so with minimal arm to the animal. I am curious to know if we would have better results in humans? you'd think if someone is a kidney match maybe growing an extra kidney in them would yield better results, but that's not even a hypothesis at this point.
I mean, no one who eats pork should be able to criticize. If the pigs are used for donation, i am HELL SURE those pigs will be better treated than 90% of the ones used to eat
Eaten is ok because it is natural cause of order of things. Nothing else is. We have no right to enslave them or genetically modify them into another species playing god for our own sake.
@@Sam-hk7xtit’s not ok actually. Eating animals was a survival mechanism that is no longer necessary especially at the sheer scale it is today. There is already an ethical dilemma in that that people have actually grappled with for centuries. Now with factory farming an climate change, animal rights is SLOWLY edging its way into consciousness, though I think less than even 5% of the population identifies as vegetarian or vegan.
@@Sam-hk7xtI didn’t say “eating.” I said “breeding to be eaten.” Farming and the selective breeding done to create our domestic food animals is not “natural”.
yes, we should. as soon as we have established that it is safe, we have to. Though the approach to use genetically altered pig organs that produce their own immunesuppressants, so that patients dont have to take them and they are just where they are needed has shown incredible potential. A german research group has been able to implant mini pig organs to monkeys. the monkeys lived for three months, after which they had to be sacrificed because of german animal protection laws. So Xenotransplants are another great route to choose.
My obesity disqualifies me from donating my body to science in the US, which really sucks. There are currently debates in the medical community about accepting obese body donations. Doctors are pointing out that medical students DO need practice operating on obese patients, because they will likely encounter plenty of them on the job.
Is your fear based on any medical knowledge or experience? Or are you just imagining things and assuming that it could possibly be real even though you have no knowledge of the science
My family is aware that when I die, my 1st choice is to be donated to science and my 2nd choice is to be human compost. If I were able to be free to science, could they just use my body to grow new organs for people, or at least to study it as an option???
All living things deserve autonomy and respect, we are killing this planet and ourselves because we see EVERYTHING as a resource instead of as a living being.
In my personal opinion, I feel like the 1st case, with the chimeric embryo, is a bit too iffy on the ethical side. Just the risk of creating a pig with human consciousness puts me off it. If they just, put some human kidney cells on live pig kidney and called it a day, I wouldn't be against it, but with an embryo from scratch, it just brings too many objections and ethical considerations for me. The second option, with the genetic modified pigs, sounds way cleaner and ethically sound. No crossing of any human cells, only the transplant of a pig kidney to a human. And I feel like, when the options are death or pig kidney, people will choose the pig kidney. I remember reading an article about a muslim doctor doing something similar, but with a pig heart, and he asked his imam about the religious ethics of it, and the answer he got was that saving a human life supersedes religious animal taboos.
I feel like this would be a good substitute if we can get all the dents out of it although personally I'll be truly happy when we can 3D print with organic material to make any body part
I think you're on the money. Something tells me animal-grown organs are going to be like the eight-tracks of organ replacement technology when compared to 3D printing. If you don't know what eight-tracks are, there's a good reason.
@@inkygloves5197 Yeah, also with 3D printing body parts is that they could be made completely out of the patient's cells , meaning transplants that would likely have no rejection problems.
@@inkygloves5197 yeah it feels a lot less weird and kind of bad to be like oh it was a replacement liver grown in a lab made out of my cells compared to the genetically engineered a pig to have a human like liver
I'm all for it, the only current ethics concern with this tech at present is that being a recipient of a transplant may make it such that the human recipient is barted from working on certain industries where they might suffer potential exposure to pig borne illness at high frequencies (they may be banned from working with either raw pork or live pigs for life). This technology has a lot of potential to save lives while we work on finding even better solutions with even fewer potential risks to humans (especially open source non-rejective cybernetic organ transplants that outperform baseline ones, but this tech is probably a century away at best). Really the only true ethical concern I could have with this approach is if they were expanded and used to create reproductive organ replacements such as for wombs, testicles, and ovaries as a lot of work would be needed to make sure that pregnancies resultant from such organs were 100% human and suffered no physiological/developmental defects as a consequence of their source.
Ok, you worked hard on this video, but you are way off base. Human to human transplant is by far the very best choice of treatment. Last I looked there are 26 transplant research facilities in the USA. The program at IU in Indianapolis does a much better job with transplants. They are very low key in talking about their success. Mostly this is about medical politics. Ask questions why they do a better job of transplants and paitent care. Then you will understand why we have more organs available than are needed. This problem could be solved in under five years, without adding bacon to the operating table.
It wasn’t that many years ago that scientists in the medical fields believed animals didn’t feel pain and they would do horrific procedures on them with no anesthetic, humans are beyond evil, but that’s what they had the public believing. We are destroying this planet and all living things because we’re greedy and see everything as a “resource” only, and not as a living thing that deserves respect.
10:00 Except of course when you do medical research based on the public healthcare data that the German public automatically provides when visiting their doctor. In that specific, for reasons that are still inexplicable to me, the German law supercedes the medical research ethics code.
I’m not sure what medical research ethics code you’re referring to, but Deutscher Ethikrat is really well-respected, and considered by a lot of ethicists to be one of the best examples of how a federal ethics council should work.
I rather die than have a species' blood (that we selfishly genetically modified so theyre not even the same animal) on my hands for genocide just for me to maybe survive a bit longer.
This technology and/or approach is not new as the video says. This has been done many years ago in pancreas by KO of PDX1 in pigs. Exactly the same principle. The problem is, just the pancreatic epithelium is from human, while other supporting cells come from the pig (endothelium, fibroblast, immune cells etc etc). Therefore, there is no compatibility for human transplant.
Didn’t know I can be an organ donor while alive, at least here the information about that is not advertised like regular organ donation is. Checking up with a doc tomorrow to see if i qualify for this type of donation
If you can induce pluripotency using adult cells, I wouldn't mind growing a small kidney, some liver tissue, and a spare pancreas. Autologous donation isn't always possible, but if you had only one kidney, you might have some unused space anyway.
Most federal employees in the US are required to take annual ethics training refresher courses. Except congresspeople. Turns out they are not bound by the ethics regulations the rest of us abide by. Not that they would understand the ethics of chimerism
Ethics of chimerism? I think just fundamental ethics would be foreign to them. I am a federal employee and I can say my colleagues are the most ethical people I know. We have to bridge the gap between weapons systems manufacturers and government acceptance of the systems. You wouldn’t believe how often we’re offered lunches, dinners and the obligatory coffee mugs and such. My old boss really drove the point home to us. Never do anything you’d be uncomfortable explaining to the Captain(skipper). It’s served us well for years.
One thing ive never understood is that people are happy to eat an animal but not use it to grow a life saving organ, there’s an argument that both are unethical but its a double standard to say we shouldn’t grow organs in animals while we eat them
@@scerb100 The question here is primarily how the animal is treated. You can absolutely do ethical meat production, many do, it'll reflect in the price though. As for the organ harvesting the problem is how closely you need to monitor the donor animal to ensure nothing bad happens to the organ (disease and the likes). If the donor animal can life to adulthood and walk around on a farm until it's organs are needed i think no one thinks that's unethical unless they're hardcore vegans that lack logic.
I think it boils down to can you create an animal that is braindead or simply without a head, of course this applies to humans as well. At that point everyone would be on board.
One is natural survival, the other is messing with nature in order to artificially provide for people in ways that could cause unintended consequences. One is death, the other is parasitic. I'd rather be killed and eaten than have somebody use my body to grow another animal's organ for them.
Last year there was also a spinal cord repair that used stem cells and was successful. There have been several patients who have seen most of their Parkinson's symptoms disappear after stem cell therapy… The list goes on. Just because you are woefully ignorant of these things doesn't mean they haven't happened.
Thank you so much for people who do donate. However... You are under no obligation to help others. And if you choose to help someone, you are under no obligation to help people in ways someone else thinks you should. I think people read into not signing up as an organ donor too complexly. Its entirely valid to just not do it because you don't want to. It may sound like a crappy reason to someone else. But the question is NOT why don't you want to be an organ donor? The question is... why would you want to be? And i don't mean that in a derogatory way. What im saying is what positive reasons would make you want to do that? I just think the thought is framed wrong. You asked it more like... of course you want someone to rip out your organs! So why haven't you signed up yet? When really the thought SHOULD BE of course you don't want someone to rip out your organs. I mean... who'd want that? But what can we do to make this more appealing knowing your saving someones life?
Woah, hang on, "rip out" your organs?? You're the one framing things wrong, bud. But even if they were ripped out and not carefully surgically removed- once you're dead, the body isn't you anymore. "Why wouldn't you want to be an organ donor?" is a perfectly valid question. Now, I'm not saying there aren't perfectly good reasons to not want to donate. Something as simple as "I'm not comfortable with the thought of my body being desecrated after death" is a perfectly good reason. I just feel like that should far and away be the minority. Your death could save 5 other lives if you just tick that box on your driver's license, or however your country handles it. Why wouldn't you want that?
Yeah, no, you're the one framing it all wrong with histrionics about "of course you want someone to rip out your organs!" Organ donation should always be an opt-out process requiring a reason, because real people are dying every day because of the indifference or inconsiderateness of other people who are already dead and won't miss an organ anyway. You're arguing, "Nah, it's totally a valid choice to just let other people die for no real reason," and uh.... No. It isn't. Not even a little.
I can't even begin to imagine where science will be in 100 years. Just how primitive will we look to the people of the future? Even now, looking back to the 50's is an entirely different world.
It's kinda awkward to put ethical issues on an animal that breeds and grows fast, and pretty much ends up on our dinner plates. The embeded virus DNA is more concerning.
I don't mind. I recently got on the list. One issue with kidneys is that they like to fail or get rejected after donations. Not as big a deal as say liver rejection, due to dialysis being available. I have liver disease which turned into hepatorenal syndrome. My kidneys failed due to the stress. I was told I'm most likely going to get my organs from an opiate addict. Fentynal in my area has been a scourge, and opiate addicts tend to have good enough organs since it usually kills them due to repository depression. I was sort of shocked when I heard that. I haven't looked at someone messed up the same. Like one of those lost people might save my life through dying themselves... I've battled with addiction myself so yeah. I could have been one. My biggest concern if I live to get the organs, and survive the surgery is! The fact I will be on immune suppressants my whole life. Lots of new break throughs, and such yet none of them battle that. Something tells me if they could could fix that then maybe there wouldn't be so many rejections, or kidneys failing after the fact. Wish we could just make artifical organs. Or just heal scar tissue, and damaged organs we have through CRISPR or stem cells. Ever watch the movie The Repo Men? Well let us hope that doesn't become the future.
@@snek8421 , yeah tell the 'suffering organ' part to pretty much most of the humans, eating and drinking all the shits like not even good tasting booze!
@@dianapennepacker6854 , yeah, sadly it looks like we can't clone in jar complex organs of individuals, I know I saw blader grewn in a jar or ear-cardolage on mice, 20+ years ago in some science show, though. Well, I know it does no much, but I wish you a healthi recowery!
@@snek8421 A boltgun to the head does not cause suffering. Dying of kidney failure does. Grow up and stop being a hypocrite, or would you die to save Ms. Piggy?
Well they say hair is like an organ, I can't see the harm in say, hair cloning on an animal then transplanting it off them and onto human scalps. There's potentially a drug out there that can stop the scarring afterwards too and make the hairs grow back after transplanting.
@@snek8421 You wake up, dazed and confused on the plains. Your memory is gone, but you see a group of people and a herd of buffalo. You A. Walk over to the people and introduce yourself B. Walk over to the herd of buffalo and introduce yourself C. Flip a coin to decide which to introduce yourself to.
@@goodfortunetoyou hehe that’s pretty funny but i don’t think choosing to associate yourself with other humans is speciesist, at least not in the way that most people mean
@@snek8421 I'm glad you enjoyed it. I think the reasoning (in my case, can't speak for Jolfgard) boils down to favoring humans because they're more in-group.
I recall hearing a while back about seeding extracelluar matrix with stem cells to just grow new organs. With the recipient's own cells (i.e. absolutely 0 rejection chance). Whatever happened on that front? To be clear I'm 1000% okay with xenotransplants research too. All roads to helping the sick.
Seems like a lot of work to fix a problem that could as easily be fixed by having an opt out system for organ donation, rather than an opt in one. If you don't want your organs donated, you still don't have to, but if you have no preference, or just haven't thought about it, then we assume you are. This would massively increases the supply of donor organs. Not saying this research isn't amazing, and it could be useful for certain patients, but we've had a solution for organ shortages for transplants since forever, we've just opted not to implement it.
Humans aren't really more similar to rodents than pigs, I think. Rodents are great for medical science because they are small and have super fast lifespans.
@@Dan-dy8zp we're much more closely related to rodents than to pigs. After primates, colugos, and treeshrews, we're most related to the clade glires, which are rodents rabbits and pikas. Pigs on the other hand are more related to all ungulates, from horses to whales, to all cats and all dogs and their carnivoran relatives, to bats, and to shrews and moles and their other Eulipotyphla relatives than to humans. i know that translates to a greater similarity to humans in some ways. i have little idea if the similarities are important in this case tbh.
In the experiment in which we transplanted a pigs kidney in deceased humans, how exactly did the kidney function for 61 days without rejection....in a dead body? Whats the process for keeping organs alive and functioning inside of an otherwise dead body?
You missed an important word there. "Brain-dead" body, not completely dead. Some people might call it "a vegetative state"- i.e. the brain has completely stopped functioning and cannot be revived. The body and organs within can continue living without the brain in a carefully monitored environment. The researchers would have to provide nutrients and fluid through an IV and probably move the body around and give it sponge baths now and then to prevent infections and sores. But yes, the rest of the body was still alive despite the brain function of the person being completely gone.
We could do the equivalent of crispr as with goats and spider silk in their milk but with parasitic organ seeds Like 40k geneseeds but instead of humans used to grow them pigs
It always blows my mind how many people will say this is ethically outrageous and then go back to eating their pork chop that at this point they’ve forgotten came from a pig at all
10:48 under the principle of Pikuach Nefesh (the preservation of life above the rules of faith), Judaism would actually require its adherents to accept the pig organ
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Arguably financial stability also plays a role in live organ donation. Can you afford to take time off work? Can you afford the medications? Can you afford the hospital stay? Can you afford the care necessary if something goes wrong? I suppose growing in animals would solve that problem
I have had to quit my career in order to be poor enough to qualify for medicaid, dialysis makes it super hard to hold a job
A proper healthcare system also makes it way easier to afford transplantation.
@@PatataMaxtex Agreed. I have an acquaintance in the UK who is waiting for a liver - when/if one becomes available the surgery and care are fully covered by the Crown
Paying people that are willing to donate would be an easier solution.
Those questions are very much unique to the USA. In ever other developed nation that wouldn't be an issue.
Just the other day, I read about a country (can't remember which) which uses default opt-in organ donor consent; when a person reaches the age of 21 years old, they are automatically assumed to give consent unless they specifically opt-out. Those who opt-out will get lower transplant list priority if they ever need a transplant. I think this makes things much more equitable.
Makes sense. Only hypocrites could be upset about that last part.
@patrickmccurry1563 Not really... my body MY choice. All this sounds like is private corporations, once again, forcing people to literally sell parts of their body and life just to qualify to EXIST in the real world, all while THEY make bank doing it.
Don't be mistaken... in the Netherlands, healthcare is 100% private, even more private than the US healthcare system. The only people that benefit from this law are the private corporations that now have a GOVERNMENT MANDATED free unlimited source of organs that they don't need to spend money to hunt down.
@patrickmccurry1563 Personally it sounds like "well... you either LET me ra*e you, or the government will come down here with guns, and prevent you from EVER having consensual sex again". Either you give up YOUR organs FOR FREE to a PRIVATE BUSINESS, or the government comes down with guns and prevents you from EVER receiving medical treatment that you are actually MANDATED by law to pay PRIVATE insurance for.
I love this idea!!
Majority of EU is like this as far as I know.
I'm actually donating my whole body to science... I have no use for it once I'm dead and I've some relatively rare health issues that baffle doctors on how I'm still alive and healthy at 45 when I should have been dead by 8 or 9 yo. So, in a weird way, I'm excited that they might discover how I made that work... unfortunately, I'll be dead and won't be able to read the report! :D
Great kudos to you for taking action for the benefit of others when there is no advantage to yourself.
Hope you'll live for a long time and able to contribute more to people around you before you reach the grand finale! I'd say you deserve it!
Your body most likely will go to a human butcher shop and sold for parts, it's unfortunately unlikely for those organ harvester organizations to harvest you organs in time, unless you die in a hospital bed. The most likely scenario would be that your body sold for parts like skeletons for bizarre shows or to a live audience corpse dissection not performed for medical science but just for a bizarre show. None of it will go to save lives or towards advancement in medical science.
Go watch "Last Week Tonight", They explained it all.
I'm surprised no one has said this yet, but make sure you speak to a lawyer and have an iron-clad contract (or whatever it is that governs how your body is treated after death). There are some horror stories, like that of the woman whos body was blown up by the military for science. Which is the exact opposite of what the woman would have wanted her body to be used for. Or the guy whos body was available for any paying customer to cut up. If you want your body to be donated specifically for research on the health issues you have, you have to specify that for sure. And then what happens if no one wants it for that specific purpose? etc. And there's lots of other stuff to consider. Definitely do a LOT of googling and talking to experts about this subject.
Be careful in choosing who you donate it to. There are fewer regulations than you might think. What you donate your body for could wind up not being what it is used for. It doesn’t help that human body parts are extremely valuable monetarily. Some universities have good reputations for non-profit, respectful use of donated bodies, and will even cremate and return the remains when they are done with them so that families can have something to bury/scatter. But sometimes schools, hospitals, and especially funeral homes, are a lot less ethical and transparent, so do your research and don’t take things at face value.
There’s a pretty good podcast series about this: “Cover Up: Body Brokers,” by The Binge. It examines a particular funeral home’s terrible practices, but it also goes in depth into body brokering as an industry. Toward the end, it looks at one university that is doing things right.
I spent many years working in a dialysis unit and saw both the immense suffering of people with end stage renal disease (note, their family share that suffering) and the incredible relief that comes from not being tied to a machine many hours a week. Transplantation is amazing but it is itself at treatment, not a cure. I fully support on going research as long as there are strong ethical guardrails which are never stronger than the persons enforcing them. However, a lot of kidney failure is preventable by treating the underlying diseases that cause it---hypertension, diabetes, etc. We don't spend nearly enough doing so. Access the medical care is far from universal and there are profound differences in treatment outcomes based on income, race, zip code, etc. If we truly want to spend our money where it will do the most good, it is in prevention.
Yeah if I'd had access to health care to control my lupus earlier i wouldn't have ended up on dialysis. It took me having permanent organ failure to qualify for the healthcare that would have prevented it.
@@feistsorcerer2251 I hope it gets better for you!😡🤬😭😭😭
Yeah I have hepatorenal syndrome. Liver failure causing kidney failure. I need a double transplant.
Honestly the way I see it. I would allow science to have me grow extra organs to save people if they fed and housed me! 60k a year sounds fair, lol.
Especially if it meant it allowed me to be born! I've always felt even a terrible life is better than no life.
Make sure you guys go get yearly blood tests. Some diseases like to be asymptomatic till it is too late.
I love how well you covered this subject while giving full acknowledgement to the ethical perspectives throughout
Did they though? The way they callously talk about experimenting on non-consenting individuals reminds me Josef Mengele.
@@WeissM89 Which non-consenting individuals? Brain dead patients are not alive and therefore no consent is required.
I have to say I disagree with the religious point, we already do medical procedures such as blood transfusions that some cultures and religions refuse to do because it goes against their beliefs. If they do not wish to do it, that is well and good, but that does not mean it should be unavailable for everybody because of a few
I have never understood the refusal of certain medical procedures by some religions. They say they will pray and god will save them …… but god already answered their prayers 🙄
The question being passed in that section wasn’t really should the research be done, but should it be done in pigs specifically. If it was another animal, it wouldn’t even come up.
And when you’re talking about a taboo held by over a quarter of the world’s population, it is a relevant question of possibly being able to save far more lives if the research was conducted differently.
To be clear, I don’t know if there is another option than pigs, who are already a second choice since we’re not using chimps. But it’s a worthwhile consideration.
@@ericeaton2386I don't know about all of the religions that prohibit pork, but IIRC both Islam and Judaism allow heart valve transplants from pigs so I'd imagine they'd allow this too
Truth
@@GreatestCornholio That confuses me too!🙄
As someone whose husband is on such a waiting list - for a kidney, in fact - this is very interesting. And as someone who can't donate ANY organs now (I am diabetic, they won't even take my plasma), it's even more interesting. I can definitely see why plenty of folks have ethical reservations here. It'd be "better" if we could custom clone kidneys, maybe, but that research has its own multiple can-of-worms problems both scientifically and ethically.
Personally, I don’t see a difference to breeding pigs for eating. Well, actually instead of killing people indirectly via heart disease etc. breeding them for organ transplants would be more or less the opposite…🤔
Are you able to donate tissues still? Or do they not even want your tendons and retinas?
Hun plz don’t let your husband take a kidney grown inside of a pig. How is this even a conversation???
@@harmonicaveronica It's possible the practitioner was exaggerating to me when he told me this, but, it seems that the damage to all tissues in the body from high blood sugar kinda ruins 'em. (I haven't researched it, partly due to spending that kind of time researching some other nearer priority care)
Most diabetics are rather poorly maintained. The doctor may have been making unfounded assumptions about your personal risk for nerve and organ damage. Not to mention that a lot of diabetic issues can go unnoticed for years. @@Beryllahawk
I was so proud of my son recently when I saw his drivers license. On it was the heart symbol denoting an organ donor.
The answer to all the hurdles, both technical and ethical, is clear: we need bigger mice!
Those would be rodents of unusual size.
@@eriknicholas7294 - There is nothing unusual about human sizes!
We have capybaras
*Scientists start genetically engineering huge mice*
*PETA: Wait, that's illegal*
I recently had to revoke my organ donor consent because I got diagnosed with a genetic disorder. Kind of sad I won't be able to donate. My organs work fine.
I’ll still eat them 😔
@joshuaadams6565 Ok! When I die, I'll donate my lungs to you for breakfast 🥰
Can't you still donate to science?
I thought when you donate. You donate to a list of different things. It is actually crazy where your parts can go to. Some aren't really used for science, sadly.
Did you need to file a form? And do you now need to carry an amended card?
I just got diagnosed with a genetic disorder and I can no longer donate either🥲 I have hypermobile EDS may I ask what you have? (You don’t have to answer)
Margaret Atwood predicted this back in 2003.
Sus multiorganifer: informally known as the Pigoon because they were larger than normal pigs to accommodate the multiple sets of human organs grown within for use in transplants.
From Oryx & Crake, an amazing book I strongly recommend.
The Maddaddam Trilogy is excellent!
To be fair, people have been theorizing this since the concept of cloning came up
The House of the Scorpion beats that be 1 year being released in 2002
Imagine murdering pigs with human intelligence holding a grudge against you
So that's where scientists get their inspiration...
“ … not likely to stand up and start reciting HAM-let… “ you almost snuck that one past me 😉
If I was in need of a kidney, I'd be thankful to get one from a pig
another easy option for making more human organs available is to make organ donation opt-out instead of opt-in (like it is over here). if you care about not donating organs you can always opt-out in a quick and easy way, but in reality most people just don't even consider the issue or care much either way.
That's good and all, but all people who get transplants eventually die or Infection or Rejection, and even in countries with high donor rates it's a big popularity contest that people constantly lose
We need to be pushing cloning human organs by growing them in other animals.
Thats what we have in UK
Love the super detailed and longer video for a change
Not to mention that pigs are at least as sentient as crows or dolphins, and probably right up there with us
Everyone in my country is an organ donor by law. Only children and those who actively decide against it aren't. That fixes a lot of issues as well.
Where do you live?
Honestly, these really only need to actually work in humans in the long-term and not produce any unwanted side effects on either the human patients or the animal donors in the process; any potential ethical issues outside of those criteria will be swiftly left at the door once they become cheap enough to genuinely run China's literal organ harvesting out of business, since they'll be way more ethical regardless than, y'know, *_literal organ harvesting._*
As someone who lost a father to advanced heart failure, I’m all for this. We should do everything we can to lessen the burden of organ transplants
Really , what if it were possible to grow them in other humans, homeless people maybe, would you still be all for it? We need to stop looking at everything as a RESOURCE and start respecting ALL life , we are killing this planet and all its inhabitants including ourselves.
@@greenthumb8266 they are killing these animals in a rate that far surpasses every letter typed in your message per minute, so why not have something that has more uses than only food? cause food production will never stop, whether you like it or not, so why not make them a much more valuable than the breakfast sausages you eat with your eggs?
@@greenthumb8266It's easy for you to say when it's not your family and loved ones
@@hopingforthebest1.9 I’ve lost more family in the last three years than I can count. Humans need to respect all life , period! And stop acting like the world is our toilet.
@greenthumb8266 short sighted and primitive
I would very much like a SciShow video about the ethical, legal, and logistical reasons why primates aren't used for these experiments and organ-growing plans, if they're theoretically better.
I work with primates and they are very expensive for one. Also they have high requirements for importation and how they are housed in captivity, because they get bored easily they need extra enrichment and stimulation. They can also be dangerous; macaques carry Herpes B, which can kill humans if they are exposed to it. Not to mention physically dangerous. Larger primates have to be sedated for every procedure, which isn’t great for them.
Hopefully they're all discovered to be dangerous in other ways as well. We should stick to harvesting from our own species, and stop imposing ourselves on anything we can force into it.@@ofthewilderwoods
@@neryskkiran1820 I hope you're a vegan, because otherwise this is a really hypocritical thing to say
@@neryskkiran1820 “harvesting” from people sounds really sick so I hope you’re talking about organ donations.
And yes primates are dangerous, most of them have huge teeth and are very strong, so I don’t think they should be used in organ transfers, for ethical and practical reasons.
@@neryskkiran1820 sounds like something a cannibal would say
I read a (fantastic) YA scifi novel when I was 13 about organ donating. It remains one of my favorite series even over a decade later. And videos like this eerily mimicks some of the ideas and questions posed by the novels, which is really cool. And terrifying.
What's the book called?
@@conlon4332probably the Unwind series
@conlon4332 Unwind by Neal Shusterman. It is geared towards young adults (ie teens), but its a fantastic series to read as an adult as well. Its main focus is on organ harvesting from (living) children using their parents consent to do it. It touches on alot of moral and ethical questions and issues that, looking back now as an adult, presented it really well for a young adult audience.
@@inkygreen Thanks. Sounds really creepy, but also interesting. I'll try to keep it in mind for when I'm in the mood for that kind of thing.
Margaret Atwood also wrote about this in "Oryx & Crake", a novel that takes place in the same world as "The Handmaid's Tale."
Part of the ethical concerns about using pig parts in medicine has already been extensively discussed and basically resolved, at least for people of the Jewish faith. Pig heart valves have been used extensively in medicine for decades. Basically the concept is that saving a human life trumps pretty much everything else. As well, the taboo is largely for *eating* pork, so if you want to be a language lawyer about it, technically you aren't actually "eating" pork products if you are receiving a transplanted organ or body part.
Now some more ultra-orthodox Muslim readings state that you cannot *touch* a pig or pig flesh, and it's pretty hard to receive an organ transplant without touching it, so that complicates things a bit.
I'd much, MUCH, rather we figure out how to grow organs in a lab or in the patient.
I would only accept an organ grown in lab, or inside myself.
They're already doing that. Multiple avenues of research can be done at the same time, funny how that works
I was just talking about this and looking it up earlier today 😂 great timing!
As far as religious views of animals that aren’t kosher being used for medicinal use I can speak first hand. Many years ago I was found to have a genetic disorder affecting my blood clotting. I went thru all of the first choice meds and still threw clots. Finally found one that worked Lovenox. It is obtained from “porcine intestinal mucosa” per the paperwork. Well I’m Jewish so I consulted with my Rabbi who told me the use of it is legal because my life depends on it. Other sects might be different and obviously other religions so I can only speak to my situation. Consult with your religious leaders if you find yourself in the same situation. Oh and my grandfather was diabetic. At that time insulin was sourced from porcine organs but again it’s required to save his life so it was permissible..
Since i was a teenager i always have a organ donor card in my wallet and one at home (you never know haha) and many die becouse of missing organs so i think scientist's should pursue the idea further!
Huh? Unaccpetable conditions for pigs, right...
HAS ANYONE LOOKED AT THE CURRENT STATE OF INDUSTRIAL MEAT PRODUCTION??!
But that's how you feed 9 billion humans.
My thoughts exactly. The people crying "Ethics!" and "Those poor animals!" will have bacon and eggs for breakfast, chicken tenders for lunch, and a steak for dinner today. Ridiculous.
@@davidmccarthy6061Animal Agriculture uses 77% of agricultural land but provides only 18% of global calories.
It's ludicrously inefficient.
Also as the other commenter pointed out, all the pondering of the ethical nature of this rings hollow when these people will pay for an animal to have their throat slashed open for a 10 minute meal.
Non-vegan = animal abuser.
But there not using animal from industrial meat production these pigs are raised differently in labs where it more sanitary, but the studies in china are probably just random pigs from random farms, also what about all the parasites in pigs how do you stop them from infecting the kidneys
@@davidmccarthy6061that doesn’t make it ethical nor is it necessary. There is nothing derived from meat that cannot be met without here.
Plants provide protein along with some fortification or supplementation.
Taking the life of another sentient creature in the modern world is purely for taste pleasure and gluttony.
And if you’re ostensibly “for” the advancements in science to grown an organ in an non-consenting being but against the moral imperative to choose the advancements in science to no longe r have to torture and mass murder billions of animals per year, then you have a major contradiction.
As someone who take care of the elders n meet their friends who have organ failure and relatives .. I’m all for this as I believed our body is like a car and it can’t run perfect forever and at some point it need replacement point period and waiting list is not a guaranteed options so we have to look at other options . If you think is ethical wrong that fine just don’t put urself into being the victim as one but for others the pains n suffering being on the waiting list and not to add even if there a donor matched it doesn’t guaranteed that your body accepts either . So by doing this and other u putting your own cells and it work might be better. What we need is research into this n other how effectives is it and making sure it really a perfect 10 b4 we say yeh it all good but inorder to do so we have to open doors for research like this instead of being afraid of what we don’t know yet .
First thing that's easier and far useful is to make organ donation opt out. People can sign a form to say they won't let their body be donated instead of the other way around. This is because 99% of people have no opinion either way, they just don't care to sign anything.
Imagine how far along science woukd be if people weren't questioning weather its ethical or not.
just got this notification, watching the video now!
I’m eating a ham sandwich
No religious texts have a prohibition against transplanting pig organs. Is there a well-studied, easily-bread, common human-sized domesticated mammalian omnivore they consider clean, which we should be using instead?
Glad I was born a human...
Otherwise humans esp. Europeans would run for your blood, meat, intestine, esophagus, bladder, skin, bone, kidney, liver, heart, lungs. People you are no longer nomads in the snow and wilderness. Why stick to uncivilized way of the flesh? This cooking culture through RUclips (bush meat and egg slurry) is now being aped in the east and is very worrisome. It is turning the tide against vegetarianism.
Adding the thought about faith leaders was very interesting. Didn't even think about THAT in this equation.
If humans are more closely related to rats then to pigs, and one reason that pigs are being investigated is that they closer in size to humans, then we OBVIOUSLY need to genetically engineer human-sized rats. It's logic!
Just don't let the ROUSes loose. You don't want to have to explain that one to people.
...though pet rats the size of pigs do sound kind of cute...
The host is so good.
She is.
6:25
I mean, if a weakened immune response following a dogbite poses no notable health danger, who am I to judge?
Savannah: They won't start reciting Hamlet.
Me: Haha, HAMlet.
10:45
Yeah, that's the good old insulin question simply reiterated. I'm surprised that researchers from these cultures haven't come up with non-pig alternatives yet. I mean, humanity is not FORCED to limit their research to pigs.
Wait, what's the insulin question?
@@conlon4332 They extracted* insulin from ground pig pancreas. The pig needs it's pancreas to live. According to Wikipedia, eight ounces of purified insulin required two tons of pigs parts.
Edit: extract to extracted. This is not how insulin is currently manufactured.
@@goodfortunetoyou "Insulin is produced using genetic engineering. Scientists cut and paste the human insulin gene into a plasmid, which can be used to transfer the gene into bacteria. The bacteria produce the insulin, which can then be isolated from the bacterial culture and given to patients."
It's made synthetically in labs, using bacteria.
@@conlon4332
I was trying to be helpful in the context of the "insulin question" relating to pigs. The techniques in the 1920s were less advanced. Gene editing is cool though.
Check Insulin_(medication)#Principles, third paragraph.
@@goodfortunetoyou It's been made synthetically in labs since 1982. Where are you getting your nonsense???
Unless there is a scientific reason not to do it, yes we absolutely should do this.
We are already putting cow and pig heart valves in people!
I thought is was surprising this wasn't mentioned in the video
@@philaphobic they do temporary skin graphs from pigs as well, for burn victims.
If you wouldnt do it to a dog, dont do it to a pig. Pigs are just as sentient and capable of suffering.
I am all for it - but one thing I would want answers would be the possible issue of virues and other things access to a DNA split between those animals to come closer to jumping over to us or over to them.
Minecraft pigmen about to be a reality 😂
From a medical standpoint point, I love this idea!!! However, from a scientific standpoint, would this make it easier for disease to pass from animal to human and vice versa?
Maybe.. that could be a possibility but I don't think so
For pigs, there’s concern about porcine encephalitis, but they screen the pigs for that. Zoonotic diseases would be a huge issue if say, non-human primates were being used, tho.
I remember 30 years ago that the manga ghost in the shell depicted human organ farming from pigs
Yeah because the scientific community had already theorized it
Uhm people allready kill millins of them for meat consumption hiw would this be less ethical than the justification of the short term pleasure of earing a animal
Real life Mojo Jojo when?
8:45 ... reciting Hamlet. Good one.
before watching - I would say yes, especially if we can do so with minimal arm to the animal. I am curious to know if we would have better results in humans? you'd think if someone is a kidney match maybe growing an extra kidney in them would yield better results, but that's not even a hypothesis at this point.
I mean, no one who eats pork should be able to criticize. If the pigs are used for donation, i am HELL SURE those pigs will be better treated than 90% of the ones used to eat
If breeding animals to be eaten or for their insulin is acceptable, then what’s the difference?
Eaten is ok because it is natural cause of order of things. Nothing else is. We have no right to enslave them or genetically modify them into another species playing god for our own sake.
@@Sam-hk7xtit’s not ok actually. Eating animals was a survival mechanism that is no longer necessary especially at the sheer scale it is today. There is already an ethical dilemma in that that people have actually grappled with for centuries. Now with factory farming an climate change, animal rights is SLOWLY edging its way into consciousness, though I think less than even 5% of the population identifies as vegetarian or vegan.
@@Sam-hk7xtI didn’t say “eating.” I said “breeding to be eaten.” Farming and the selective breeding done to create our domestic food animals is not “natural”.
yes, we should. as soon as we have established that it is safe, we have to. Though the approach to use genetically altered pig organs that produce their own immunesuppressants, so that patients dont have to take them and they are just where they are needed has shown incredible potential. A german research group has been able to implant mini pig organs to monkeys. the monkeys lived for three months, after which they had to be sacrificed because of german animal protection laws. So Xenotransplants are another great route to choose.
ok, I should watch the whole video before commenting…
I get porkchops, ham, AND a new liver!?!?! Tell me less and take my money!
My obesity disqualifies me from donating my body to science in the US, which really sucks. There are currently debates in the medical community about accepting obese body donations. Doctors are pointing out that medical students DO need practice operating on obese patients, because they will likely encounter plenty of them on the job.
my fear is that the organs wouldn't last as long if they were grown with such speed
If this becomes common enough, you can easily get a replacement.
What do you mean, grown with such speed? Are you talking about how it takes less time for pigs to mature?
Is your fear based on any medical knowledge or experience? Or are you just imagining things and assuming that it could possibly be real even though you have no knowledge of the science
My family is aware that when I die, my 1st choice is to be donated to science and my 2nd choice is to be human compost. If I were able to be free to science, could they just use my body to grow new organs for people, or at least to study it as an option???
All living things deserve autonomy and respect, we are killing this planet and ourselves because we see EVERYTHING as a resource instead of as a living being.
What do you mean "should we?" That's not even a question. Ofcourse we should
Yes! Absolutely!
In my personal opinion, I feel like the 1st case, with the chimeric embryo, is a bit too iffy on the ethical side. Just the risk of creating a pig with human consciousness puts me off it. If they just, put some human kidney cells on live pig kidney and called it a day, I wouldn't be against it, but with an embryo from scratch, it just brings too many objections and ethical considerations for me.
The second option, with the genetic modified pigs, sounds way cleaner and ethically sound. No crossing of any human cells, only the transplant of a pig kidney to a human.
And I feel like, when the options are death or pig kidney, people will choose the pig kidney.
I remember reading an article about a muslim doctor doing something similar, but with a pig heart, and he asked his imam about the religious ethics of it, and the answer he got was that saving a human life supersedes religious animal taboos.
I feel like this would be a good substitute if we can get all the dents out of it although personally I'll be truly happy when we can 3D print with organic material to make any body part
I think you're on the money. Something tells me animal-grown organs are going to be like the eight-tracks of organ replacement technology when compared to 3D printing. If you don't know what eight-tracks are, there's a good reason.
@@inkygloves5197 Yeah, also with 3D printing body parts is that they could be made completely out of the patient's cells , meaning transplants that would likely have no rejection problems.
That's true. It just seems so much more controllable and efficient. And much less ethically ambiguous.@@GenderFluidDragonKing
@@inkygloves5197 yeah it feels a lot less weird and kind of bad to be like oh it was a replacement liver grown in a lab made out of my cells compared to the genetically engineered a pig to have a human like liver
I'm all for it, the only current ethics concern with this tech at present is that being a recipient of a transplant may make it such that the human recipient is barted from working on certain industries where they might suffer potential exposure to pig borne illness at high frequencies (they may be banned from working with either raw pork or live pigs for life). This technology has a lot of potential to save lives while we work on finding even better solutions with even fewer potential risks to humans (especially open source non-rejective cybernetic organ transplants that outperform baseline ones, but this tech is probably a century away at best). Really the only true ethical concern I could have with this approach is if they were expanded and used to create reproductive organ replacements such as for wombs, testicles, and ovaries as a lot of work would be needed to make sure that pregnancies resultant from such organs were 100% human and suffered no physiological/developmental defects as a consequence of their source.
Ok, you worked hard on this video, but you are way off base. Human to human transplant is by far the very best choice of treatment. Last I looked there are 26 transplant research facilities in the USA. The program at IU in Indianapolis does a much better job with transplants. They are very low key in talking about their success. Mostly this is about medical politics. Ask questions why they do a better job of transplants and paitent care. Then you will understand why we have more organs available than are needed. This problem could be solved in under five years, without adding bacon to the operating table.
Developing a science does not ask peoples with taboos to break them, it gives peoples new options and forces one to think.
8:36 Pigs are already smart. I've heard their intelligence compared to dogs and even 3 year old children.
It wasn’t that many years ago that scientists in the medical fields believed animals didn’t feel pain and they would do horrific procedures on them with no anesthetic, humans are beyond evil, but that’s what they had the public believing. We are destroying this planet and all living things because we’re greedy and see everything as a “resource” only, and not as a living thing that deserves respect.
10:00
Except of course when you do medical research based on the public healthcare data that the German public automatically provides when visiting their doctor. In that specific, for reasons that are still inexplicable to me, the German law supercedes the medical research ethics code.
I’m not sure what medical research ethics code you’re referring to, but Deutscher Ethikrat is really well-respected, and considered by a lot of ethicists to be one of the best examples of how a federal ethics council should work.
@@khills and pray tell what does that fact change?
@@Jolfgard Well, could be quite relevant, since you didn’t specify what medical code you mean.
if my heart was failing, and they told me the only hope for life was to do this, i might just do it
I rather die than have a species' blood (that we selfishly genetically modified so theyre not even the same animal) on my hands for genocide just for me to maybe survive a bit longer.
“Won’t start reciting HAM-let…” ahahahah! Such a great pun!
Yes yes we should how is this a question
This technology and/or approach is not new as the video says. This has been done many years ago in pancreas by KO of PDX1 in pigs. Exactly the same principle. The problem is, just the pancreatic epithelium is from human, while other supporting cells come from the pig (endothelium, fibroblast, immune cells etc etc). Therefore, there is no compatibility for human transplant.
They'll recite HAMlet? Nice one, writers.
Didn’t know I can be an organ donor while alive, at least here the information about that is not advertised like regular organ donation is.
Checking up with a doc tomorrow to see if i qualify for this type of donation
Aw sweet manmade horrors beyond my comprehension!
Watch Crash Course Biology and they'll be man-made horrors within your comprehension!
You'd be singing a different tune if you were dying of kidney failure.
Comment is funny but at the same time. We can make these animals live awesome healthy stress free lives so they can be fresh for harvesting.
@@albertsitoe7340 Ha! I don't know if that's less or more eldritch.
Are you talking about the man bear pig?
If you can induce pluripotency using adult cells, I wouldn't mind growing a small kidney, some liver tissue, and a spare pancreas. Autologous donation isn't always possible, but if you had only one kidney, you might have some unused space anyway.
Most federal employees in the US are required to take annual ethics training refresher courses. Except congresspeople. Turns out they are not bound by the ethics regulations the rest of us abide by. Not that they would understand the ethics of chimerism
Ethics of chimerism? I think just fundamental ethics would be foreign to them. I am a federal employee and I can say my colleagues are the most ethical people I know. We have to bridge the gap between weapons systems manufacturers and government acceptance of the systems. You wouldn’t believe how often we’re offered lunches, dinners and the obligatory coffee mugs and such. My old boss really drove the point home to us. Never do anything you’d be uncomfortable explaining to the Captain(skipper). It’s served us well for years.
This is giving off Full Metal Alchemist vibes.
Wow
We have been growing human organs for over Thirty years! My niece Had a lab grown bladder put in her in the nineteen nineties.
One thing ive never understood is that people are happy to eat an animal but not use it to grow a life saving organ, there’s an argument that both are unethical but its a double standard to say we shouldn’t grow organs in animals while we eat them
It is a double standard and both are unethical.
@@scerb100 The question here is primarily how the animal is treated. You can absolutely do ethical meat production, many do, it'll reflect in the price though. As for the organ harvesting the problem is how closely you need to monitor the donor animal to ensure nothing bad happens to the organ (disease and the likes). If the donor animal can life to adulthood and walk around on a farm until it's organs are needed i think no one thinks that's unethical unless they're hardcore vegans that lack logic.
I think it boils down to can you create an animal that is braindead or simply without a head, of course this applies to humans as well. At that point everyone would be on board.
One is natural survival, the other is messing with nature in order to artificially provide for people in ways that could cause unintended consequences. One is death, the other is parasitic. I'd rather be killed and eaten than have somebody use my body to grow another animal's organ for them.
@@scerb100this is the right answer
Follow-on video request: how’s stem cell organ regeneration going? Is it like fusion power, always right around the corner?
You mean how scientists have already successfully generated net positive fusion energy? We turned that corner LAST YEAR
Try and keep up lmfao
Last year there was also a spinal cord repair that used stem cells and was successful. There have been several patients who have seen most of their Parkinson's symptoms disappear after stem cell therapy… The list goes on. Just because you are woefully ignorant of these things doesn't mean they haven't happened.
Thank you so much for people who do donate. However... You are under no obligation to help others. And if you choose to help someone, you are under no obligation to help people in ways someone else thinks you should.
I think people read into not signing up as an organ donor too complexly. Its entirely valid to just not do it because you don't want to. It may sound like a crappy reason to someone else. But the question is NOT why don't you want to be an organ donor? The question is... why would you want to be? And i don't mean that in a derogatory way. What im saying is what positive reasons would make you want to do that?
I just think the thought is framed wrong. You asked it more like... of course you want someone to rip out your organs! So why haven't you signed up yet? When really the thought SHOULD BE of course you don't want someone to rip out your organs. I mean... who'd want that? But what can we do to make this more appealing knowing your saving someones life?
Woah, hang on, "rip out" your organs?? You're the one framing things wrong, bud. But even if they were ripped out and not carefully surgically removed- once you're dead, the body isn't you anymore. "Why wouldn't you want to be an organ donor?" is a perfectly valid question. Now, I'm not saying there aren't perfectly good reasons to not want to donate. Something as simple as "I'm not comfortable with the thought of my body being desecrated after death" is a perfectly good reason. I just feel like that should far and away be the minority. Your death could save 5 other lives if you just tick that box on your driver's license, or however your country handles it. Why wouldn't you want that?
Yeah, no, you're the one framing it all wrong with histrionics about "of course you want someone to rip out your organs!"
Organ donation should always be an opt-out process requiring a reason, because real people are dying every day because of the indifference or inconsiderateness of other people who are already dead and won't miss an organ anyway. You're arguing, "Nah, it's totally a valid choice to just let other people die for no real reason," and uh.... No. It isn't. Not even a little.
I can't even begin to imagine where science will be in 100 years. Just how primitive will we look to the people of the future? Even now, looking back to the 50's is an entirely different world.
It's kinda awkward to put ethical issues on an animal that breeds and grows fast, and pretty much ends up on our dinner plates.
The embeded virus DNA is more concerning.
why would that be awkward? if an organism is capable of suffering, we should avoid making them suffer
I don't mind. I recently got on the list.
One issue with kidneys is that they like to fail or get rejected after donations. Not as big a deal as say liver rejection, due to dialysis being available.
I have liver disease which turned into hepatorenal syndrome. My kidneys failed due to the stress.
I was told I'm most likely going to get my organs from an opiate addict. Fentynal in my area has been a scourge, and opiate addicts tend to have good enough organs since it usually kills them due to repository depression.
I was sort of shocked when I heard that. I haven't looked at someone messed up the same. Like one of those lost people might save my life through dying themselves... I've battled with addiction myself so yeah. I could have been one.
My biggest concern if I live to get the organs, and survive the surgery is! The fact I will be on immune suppressants my whole life.
Lots of new break throughs, and such yet none of them battle that. Something tells me if they could could fix that then maybe there wouldn't be so many rejections, or kidneys failing after the fact.
Wish we could just make artifical organs. Or just heal scar tissue, and damaged organs we have through CRISPR or stem cells.
Ever watch the movie The Repo Men? Well let us hope that doesn't become the future.
@@snek8421 , yeah tell the 'suffering organ' part to pretty much most of the humans, eating and drinking all the shits like not even good tasting booze!
@@dianapennepacker6854 , yeah, sadly it looks like we can't clone in jar complex organs of individuals, I know I saw blader grewn in a jar or ear-cardolage on mice, 20+ years ago in some science show, though.
Well, I know it does no much, but I wish you a healthi recowery!
@@snek8421 A boltgun to the head does not cause suffering. Dying of kidney failure does. Grow up and stop being a hypocrite, or would you die to save Ms. Piggy?
Well they say hair is like an organ, I can't see the harm in say, hair cloning on an animal then transplanting it off them and onto human scalps. There's potentially a drug out there that can stop the scarring afterwards too and make the hairs grow back after transplanting.
yes. I am an unapologetic speciecist. So yeah, do it. Also, just think about how cool the idea of real life chimeras actually is.
what is your reasoning for standing by speciesism?
@@snek8421
You wake up, dazed and confused on the plains. Your memory is gone, but you see a group of people and a herd of buffalo. You
A. Walk over to the people and introduce yourself
B. Walk over to the herd of buffalo and introduce yourself
C. Flip a coin to decide which to introduce yourself to.
@@goodfortunetoyou hehe that’s pretty funny
but i don’t think choosing to associate yourself with other humans is speciesist, at least not in the way that most people mean
@@snek8421 I'm glad you enjoyed it. I think the reasoning (in my case, can't speak for Jolfgard) boils down to favoring humans because they're more in-group.
I recall hearing a while back about seeding extracelluar matrix with stem cells to just grow new organs. With the recipient's own cells (i.e. absolutely 0 rejection chance). Whatever happened on that front?
To be clear I'm 1000% okay with xenotransplants research too. All roads to helping the sick.
YES we should!
Seems like a lot of work to fix a problem that could as easily be fixed by having an opt out system for organ donation, rather than an opt in one. If you don't want your organs donated, you still don't have to, but if you have no preference, or just haven't thought about it, then we assume you are. This would massively increases the supply of donor organs. Not saying this research isn't amazing, and it could be useful for certain patients, but we've had a solution for organ shortages for transplants since forever, we've just opted not to implement it.
If we should use more similar animals to humans for organs, should we be using capybaras cause they're rodents?
I think capybaras would still be too small, but possibly 🤔
At this point we should just have people reproduce for the purpose of harvesting organs. Why use animals at this point lol
Humans aren't really more similar to rodents than pigs, I think. Rodents are great for medical science because they are small and have super fast lifespans.
thats a great point. if we are closer to rodents than pigs, and capybaras are larger, hmmm, great question.
@@Dan-dy8zp we're much more closely related to rodents than to pigs. After primates, colugos, and treeshrews, we're most related to the clade glires, which are rodents rabbits and pikas. Pigs on the other hand are more related to all ungulates, from horses to whales, to all cats and all dogs and their carnivoran relatives, to bats, and to shrews and moles and their other Eulipotyphla relatives than to humans.
i know that translates to a greater similarity to humans in some ways. i have little idea if the similarities are important in this case tbh.
In the experiment in which we transplanted a pigs kidney in deceased humans, how exactly did the kidney function for 61 days without rejection....in a dead body? Whats the process for keeping organs alive and functioning inside of an otherwise dead body?
They were brain-dead, not fully dead.
You missed an important word there. "Brain-dead" body, not completely dead. Some people might call it "a vegetative state"- i.e. the brain has completely stopped functioning and cannot be revived. The body and organs within can continue living without the brain in a carefully monitored environment. The researchers would have to provide nutrients and fluid through an IV and probably move the body around and give it sponge baths now and then to prevent infections and sores. But yes, the rest of the body was still alive despite the brain function of the person being completely gone.
They said "brain-dead", not deceased body. The body was obviously on life-support.
Yes!!! We should!!!! If it’s a viable option to get everyone who needs an organ transplant one, then why not do it?
I have polycystic kidney disease. I really hope the technology progresses quickly enough that I get to live past 60
My dialysis costs the government over a million dollars per year, a brand new kidney would be dope.
We could do the equivalent of crispr as with goats and spider silk in their milk but with parasitic organ seeds
Like 40k geneseeds but instead of humans used to grow them pigs
Yes, If eating them is OK, then why wouldn't harvesting them for other meats be okay? As long as they're viable, then yes, we totally should
Except it isn’t ok. Just because society decides something is ok doesn’t actually make it ethical.
It always blows my mind how many people will say this is ethically outrageous and then go back to eating their pork chop that at this point they’ve forgotten came from a pig at all
Id be good to buy a pig for grow transplant organs. Barbecue and pork chops after using the organs are harvested.
Gross
@@scerb100 well, im not vegan, so not gross.
10:48 under the principle of Pikuach Nefesh (the preservation of life above the rules of faith), Judaism would actually require its adherents to accept the pig organ
They use pigs' heart valves to replace humans' heart valves. Has anyone ever complained that this is unethical?
Yes, especially after the original failure rate (4 out of 106) was discovered.
8:46 Hamlet! 🥁😆