#10MinuteTalk
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- Опубликовано: 10 фев 2025
- Offspring of the .308, like so many great cartridges, the .358 Win offers big bullet performance in a compact package. What’s not to like? Nothing if shooting distance is moderate - particularly on critters where a large hole and increased structural damage fall firmly in the plus category. So why does this cartridge gasp for air like a trout tossed to the bank? Tune in for our take on the good but nearly forgotten .358 Win.
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A Remington Model 760 Gamemaster in .358 Winchester and red flannel are the ultimate expression of the North Eastern Woods Hunter.
That may be the most true statement I've ever read.
I agree.
Mark I am so excited that you confirmed you finally are working on the most antisipated episode, "Marks first suppressor"
Need a 300 Savage episode. My grandma was dropping blacktails back in the 70’s with one.
probably in a 99? they briefly talk about the 99 and the 300sav but not more than a mention here and there
A cartridge talk of all the .308win derived cartridges .243win, .260rem, 7mm-08, .308, .338fed, .358win
And 6.8/08
@@jeffreywilson690 are you referring to the 6.8x51 aka .277 Fury/Sig Fury? I think the case is loosely based on the .308 but would be a good item to dive into... I am not 100% where it falls in the family.
@Edge51 I haven't looked at the case dem. But it comes from the 308 parent case
@@jeffreywilson690 There definitely is some lineage but the 6.8x51 has some major differences if we are talking the bi-metal case and pressure. Really a cool cartridge for sure and what is has kind of kicked off with the high pressure cartridges coming out.
Yes, please!
I didn't request it because I already have an AR-10 in this chambering. It absolutely rocks!
I’ve thought about building an AR10 in this cartridge. You like it? Any feeding issues?
358 Winchester vs 35 Remington…perspiring minds want to know!
Why do they always skim over the 35 remington..... conspiracies abound
I see cartridge talks, I hit the like button!
A fun conversation regarding a fun cartridge. An odd detail of the 358 Winchester is the reduced SAAMI-specified overall cartridge length compared to .308 Win. Nosler cites this as a limitation for some bullet designs in their Reloading Guide 8, which does provide load data for a 225-grain partition. When heading to Newfoundland this past year and faced with the same question of "which cartridge?," I split the difference and took a rifle in 338 Federal. I find the 338 Federal to be an optimization of the 308 parent case, to which the 358 adds frontal diameter but no significant increase in velocity. The 0.358 caliber seems better optimized in the 35 Whelen.
For straight-walled states, I'm now endeared with the 375 Winchester - another good candidate for a cartridge talk!
Found a stainless Ruger M77 Hawkeye on a used rack a few years ago and got it at a great price. Took one six pointer at close range using Hornady's 200 grain interlock. The deer dropped in its place, dead upon delivery. Great short action cartridge, thanks for featuring it Mark and Ryan.
Ryan and I chatted about the. 358 STA just before New Years. I have one. It's a beast. The load data is bananas. Same with 358 NORMA. I have an affinity for 35s. It pains me that they never really took off in the US, besides 35 Whelen.
I'm one of the askers too! It's one of the best sleeper cartridges ever! Love it in a lever or a bolt! Used it on cow elk two weeks ago, 200gr ftx at 240yds quartering towards, through both shoulders and stopped in the hair on the opposite side. it did everything you could possible ask of it. Second cow taken at 107 yards double lung pass through and done. Sadly this great cartridge is on its way out... but those of us who know what it is, well, we know what it is. I won't sell my blr and I just may order a barrel for a tikka
Biggest issue with .358 caliber rifles is bullet selection!! I have a Whelen and a 358 Norma, (love to see a talk on the Norma) . Bullets for the caliber haven't kept up (BC wise ) to more popular diameters. I can start a 250 grn faster with my Norma than with 338 Win but when you strech out the BC gets me. Took my elk this yr at 300 yrds with it no problem. Cartridge talks are my favorite podcast.
Been hoping for this one! Just won a 358 win BLR at auction and hoping for a comeback.
Currently have a model 7 being built in 358win , here in central Mississippi it’s thick and shots in the timber rarely exceed 100yds ( at this camp ) I hand load so this seems like a fun project.
Now that this cartridge talk has been completed you can start preparations for the talk on the the greatest cartridge ever devised, the 264 win mag
You spelled 257 Weatherby wrong lol
My favorite video series!
Spaghetti shootout is a close 2nd
So my dad used to talk about people like Ryan was surreptitiously talking about Mark with a 358. My dad talked about 30-30 guys that way. “So and so shot a 30-30 and always got their deer.” “So and so shot an 8 point at 150 open sights right in front of me.” Almost as if he viewed those 30-30 guys as being better marksmen. He shot a 308 because he wasn’t as skilled as those 30-30 guys. Perhaps
I built a 16” AR10 in 358 intending to hunt black bear. I’m in southeast Georgia and so far have shot multiple hogs with it. Drops them. Only used 180 grain TTSX hand loads to date made from 308 lake city brass, pushed around 2750 fps. Took it for deer a handful of times this past season but no luck. Love the cartridge, want an old rifle in it, in the AR10 it destroys optics.
Why no love for the Savage 99. It got a passing mention in the levergun episode.
358Win, 7mm-08, 308, 243, 300Sav and 250-3000 were all available AND MORE
Cmon fellas. Give it it's due
Thank you gentlemen. I really enjoy cartridge talks.
MARK we need more lead balloons please or a video on the TC Contender platform or Handgun Hunting video
I nearly owned one of these back in my youth. I went to a sale were the guy had a dozen rifles in odd chambers like 338 fed 358 win etc. Not a single standard chamber. They were going CHEAP based on memory i started bidding on a 358 win in some form of level action rifle that was mint. My dad caught wind that i was bidding and gave me so much grief i quit bidding at 105.00 ive kicked myself every since. I also tried to bid on a 35 whelen that brought less than 200.00 in the early 2000's. I wish i had bought the mans entire collection just because.
After the last Africa talk with Paul Neess you guys should do an episode on double rifles.
.358 win. was one of the only ammo options available at my local hardware store during the pandemic lol.
I have seen and shot 2 in 358 norma. I'd love a 10 minute talk on it.
I agree it’s a great cartridge. In the 1950s 35 cal bullets were the only option to get better performance. The cup and core bullets of the time limited your options. In today’s market technology has given us phenomenal bullets. You can great performance in smaller calibers and lighter rifles. If you live in a state with cartridge restrictions it is a great option. I considered converting a 7600 308 to this cartridge, never did it. Great bear gun, I remain a fan but from afar.
The 358 Winchester is one of the cartridges of all time
Very interesting cartridge talk! Loved it!
Now we need a 300 savage episode.
Mark briefly mentioned another cartridge we'd do well to consider: The Teutonic 9.3x62
I’d love you guys to cover the .356 Winchester, for all intents and purposes it’s just a rimmed .358
Gonna do an episode on 300RCM? Be cool if you did
When Winchester discontinued the Model 71 in 348 Winchester the newly minted 358 Winchester took the 348's place in different rifle platforms as the Model 71 and 348 were no more. In regards to Deer , Elk , Caribou, Moose and Black Bear it can be rightfully said that the 358 will outperform the 308 at 200 yards if you can accept the recoil. The 358 has substantially more recoil than the 308. It can also be rightfully said the 308 will outperform the 358 at 300 yards due to higher velocity and better bullet upset while being flatter shooting as well. Hope this helps....
"It's basically a muzzle loader" 😂
I have a 20" barreled 358 1-10 twist barrel running 180gr ttsx around 2850fps and it is flat killing machine if it runs it is usually less than 20 yards.
Ruger made a limited run of Ruger American rifles chambered in 358win. I was able to pick one up for a great price. One of my favorite rifles!
Still hoping for a 9.3x62 episode one day!
Could we get a cartridge talk on 460sw/45 raptor both seem great for straight wall cartridge for restricted states like Ohio
Also if this 358 Win had a parent case of WSM Mark would be in love with it
Yes so glad you guys talked about this one. A very good do all cartridge.
Compared to a 308, the 358's larger diameter bullet harvests more energy from the propellant for a given length barrel, making it a good candidate for a short, suppressed woods rifle. The mechanism is that there is more propellant gas expansion for each inch the bullet travels inside the barrel (more swept volume). That 18" Ruger mentioned in the video took advantage of this. I would also think that the 358 Win would be.a comforting cartridge to have in Big Bear Country.
Ryan is on the right track, I know he appreciates my favorite bear cartridge the 350 Remington mag. Mine is a Ruger 77 mark II . If I could find one in 358 Win I would RUN to buy it
Sounds like an ideal gun for bear. Mark is just scared it will work too well.
Great talk guys. Still waiting to hear about Ryan's safari. Maybe take Mark with?
Wilson Combat makes .358WIN barrels for AR-10s.
You know, in general, cartridges with larger diameter bullets that use brass with smaller (more moderate) powder volume, are less sensitive to velocity loss due to shorter barrel lengths. Seems to me that .358 Winchester would work well in a shorter rifle with a good suppressor installed.
Hey Vortex Guys. I absolutely love the cartridge talks. I would love to hey your all's thoughts of the 400 Legend. I recently bought one on a whim but it doesn't seem to be taking off like the 350 Legend did.
It would be q great cartridge for my stalking in the UK, somewhat similar to the 8.5mm Blaser which will also likely not catch on. Good in short barreled, moderated rifles.
Holy Shot……I have been wanting this one. I have been sweet on this round for a while. I have been thing of stepping up from my 35 rem to 358 win.
Personally, I think the 358 Winchester (although it has a cult following) is just a little thin on the upper edge. 200gr looks to be a decent performer but the 225gr and 250gr are where the 35cal shines, I think (35 Whelen). The bullets are a little long and the powder just isn't quite enough. Personally, I think the .338 Fed is probably the peak for that case, where the 210gr are pretty good and by many accounts, great elk medicine (in 338WinMag, for example), but even the .338 Fed gets anemic with the 225gr, which is where the 338s really start to shine.
.35 whelen with 180 grain Barnes is a mean machine. 2900fps on the box, I need to run some over a over a chronograph out of my 26” barrel to see what it’s actually doing. I agree with the rest of what you’re saying though, not sure there’s too many scenarios I’d pick a .358 win over the whelen unless I needed the absolute shortest, most lightweight rifle out there.
Love the cartridge episodes! How about the 8.5x55 Blaser for something interesting?
Thank you for the great catridge talk, Mark please talk about the 270 WBY next, it's a great medium catridge that i just rebarrelled an old tikke M658 to, it has a custom 7.5 twist barrel and launches the 156g Hammer Hunter at 3160fps, looking forward to hunt some red deer and fallow deer with it here in Denmark, with the new Viper HD 3-15 I'm getting tomorrow ;). Also you should consider doing a 1-6 in the Viper HD line, no bdc or other things you would use for 3 gun competitions, just a plain simple scope for driven hunts, with a center iluminated dot like the other Viper HD's. Again great video and great work, loving all of my optics from you.
Hey guys the wilson combat nula model 20 bolt action that was released last year is offered in the 358 win.
.308/.358 is like the short twins of the .30-06/.35 whelen…
Deadshot barrels makes 358 Winchester AR10 barrels. Great video
It’s like this. Kinetic energy is ultimately what does the job. So i don’t understand how Ryan can not subscribe to he E_k notion.
E_k = 1/2 M v^2
Velocity’s relation to Ke is that KE is proportional to the square of velocity. If you double the velocity, KE increases by a factor of four (2^2). (You all know this already but to illustrate my point.)
However, the projectile is slowing down from the time it leaves the barrel. Meaning that it’s Kinetic energy is depleting rapidly.
Whereas with heavyweight projectiles the bulk of the total Ke that is not subject to change is proportionally larger. The more mass an “object in motion” the more mass required to slow them down. (Sectional density). In airodynamics and hydronamics is mass is better at not slowing down than Velocity.
If you can achieve the Kinetic energy and penetration desired. A heavy slow round with good SD will be more consistent throughout its trajectory than its lighter faster peers.
Wilson combat chambers the ar-10 in 358 win stiil! How about a video comparing the 338 Federal, 358 Win and the 35 Whelen!!! The 338 Federal bridges the gap quite amazingly with the higher BC.
One thing the 30 cal bullets (and I'm a huge 30 cal fan) cannot surpass the 35 cal bullets is in frontal diameter resulting in larger wound channels and exit holes for more blood letting on game such as black bear where fat and hair come into play.
My LGS Grices in PA frequently does runs of 358 Win and 35 Whelen in Ruger M77. In the past they have had runs in Rem 700 and 7600 also.
It would be great if you could do an episode on the Weatherby RPM cartridges, both the 6.5 and the .338.
Ryan the man!. It great you sticking it to mark🤣. 358win awesome cartridge
I did request it once... but then I had a 35 Whelen built.
Now do the 348 winchester and the 33 winchester
Sweet! Ive been looking at building one recently
Cool. Do the 375 socom next.
I'm probably never going to own double digit guns. That said, I'd probably grab one of these if the deal was good.
How about a unique pair of military cartridges that use the same bullet... The 7.7 Jap and the .303 British. Only cartridges i know of that use the slightly bigger than 30 caliber bullet.
Check out Wilson combat they build ar platform rifles in 358 and new ultralight arms makes bolt guns in it as well, and yup browning discontinued the blr in 358 last year.
America does not embrace medium range cartridges, 338 federal, 358 winny, 338 winny.,
35 Remington has a strong following.
Ruger made a 358 in an American model commissioned by Grice gun shop in PA. Sold out in two days. I reamed out a Remington 7600 35 Remington to 358. Great rifle for use in PA.
Reloading ammo is a breeze, neck up 308 brass. 358 being introduced in 88, 99 models producing recoil beyond threshold of most people. Cva is making the 35 Whelan now. Maybe talk em into the 358 Winchester at some time.
Starline has the brass, they say it’s available at this time
300/338 Ruger compact Magnum
35:10 AR10 in 358 Win., FTW...
Great cartridge. Here in the northeast perfect cartridge.
15 minutes in and the 10 minute talk starts
Great video! Any chance of a discussion on 9.3x62 / 9.3x74r?
Hornady has 180 gr. Data for the .358 @ 2750 from the muzzle. I have plans to get a 358 barrel for my encore and you can get a browning BLR in it. Or last I checked.
That thing hits at 400yrds like my 45 hipoint hog carbine hits at the muzzle
Let's not forget you can build a 358 Win AR-10...
10x4 👍🏻
I have every lead balloon you guys have talked about and then some.
Interarms Mark X 358 Win Mannlicher Stock.
There is a winchester 70 on GB for only 7500.00
Mark get a 358win BLR
Anything is legal in Iowa now if it's .350 or larger but still not seeing 35 rem or
358 win or .35 Whelen on shelves.
How about that 8mm Rem mag?? 😏
284 winchester... Ryan. Come on.
Can you have AI generate that vision of the north woods hunter.
130 Barnes ttsx is awesome in 308
Well boys it doesn't come up because it's good and gets used. How about the 7mm Valkyrie?
its a great cartridge
You can still get it in a BLR!
I have a 30 06 that I want to rebarrel into something ridiculous. What is the biggest cartridge i can rebarrel it to without touching the bolt
Can you do 338 federal next if you haven’t done it?
I'm the 358th like to this video. 😏
375 Swiss P...Cartridge talk ;-)
At what point, for optimal penetration, does the .358 run out of powder capacity in regards to bullet weight? Is 200gn the sweet spot? As an example, it seems like every .308 gel test I see, there is very little difference in penetration between a .308 shooting 165's vs 180's of the same bullet construction.
Do 405 Winchester
So what’s the advantages of this over a .35 Whelen?
3:00 Is this another hint to get Mark a supressor you have been asking him for years now Ryan?
Large slow moving bullet? What about my 500 grain lead projectile out of my 50-70 Govt? That is a big and slow projectile.
Did they ever talk about the 284 Winchester? That is one i just found out about.
Pretty sure Ryan has mentioned it in passing a bunch of times in these talks but they haven't had a dedicated episode on it
.348 Win., I'll bet that won't get mentioned, ever.
Probably just as well as these young men have no experiential factor with the 348 just as their reviews demonstrated on this 358 video and 41 magnum as well. That being said I really wish when they review these older chamberings that they really don't know much about they would bring in a experienced guest to help them connect the dots to their perceived ballistics by merely reading loading tables.