The Truth About Audiophiles: Why I'm Finally Done!
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- Опубликовано: 29 июн 2024
- This video explains the reasons why I am done being called an audiophile.
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#audiophile #hifi #stereosystem 
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Ever since 1975 when I bought my first amplifier I thought of myself as a hi fi nut. I would never consider myself an audiophile. I love vintage gear and right now my two main systems are driven by a 1974 Marantz and a 1983 Harman Kardon and I am very happy. I'm on social security and buying expensive gear sounds crazy to me. Keep on preaching common sense Michael!
Thank you 🙏 the best system any of us could have is the one that sounds great to us!
Well said. As for me, I will always refer to myself as an "AUDIOPHILE". I feel if you want a positive hobby community, it starts with properly defining the label and not creating the impression that it is a negative. One should not mistake it for what I call the Audio-Snob. Which is the person your post is in fact describing. Audiophiles, focus on the enjoyment of music, investing in gear that enhances their pleasure when listening to it. Audio-Snobs obsess over the gear, fixating on owning the right piece, how it measures, and performs. Their joy comes from owning, not listening. I see two camps of snobs. One fixates on having price no object audio exotica. The other camp is the technocrat that is infatuated with measurements. There are varying degrees of cross over between the two, but the difference is one will deride you for not spending the right amount on the right brand. The other will chastise you for spending too much on a component, unless you can prove that its technology and build quality gives you a measurable improvement. Both camps are ear marked by elitist that typically do-little actual listening. One will tell you I do not listen to anything below $10K because it is beneath me. The other will wrap themselves in the spec sheet and tell you nearly everything sounds the same, including products that are different typologies. I wish I had penny for the number of times some technocrat told me the difference between a tube amp and good class D amp was nothing but misperceived - psychoacoustic - confirmation bias.
Agreed. Very well said!
@I second that!🤔😉😇 mykandrew
From the heart this one 👍
I agree with your points. Buying older good stuff is still good stuff. No need to spend todays prices to get high end, just buy older high end on the used market.
Yes! Absolutely! 👍
Getting a smaller room/smaller system has benefits in many ways. A long time ago i had a pair of standmount speakers with a modest amp in a bedroom. The speakers were placed at the left and right corner ends of the bed having lots of space around them and i was in almost nearfield like position. It was magic and kept me listeing to music for hours. And on a budget.
I agree. I have a 200 dollar set of vintage Kenwood speakers, a 150 dollar Chinese tube amp, a 150 dollar Polk Audio subwoofer, and a 400 dollar turntable. It's perfect for me. I've purchased a few upgrades, an acrylic platter, one of those record weight thingies, but that's about it. I think about "upgrading" at times, but in the end I don't. When I was a kid, I had a 35 dollar tape player that I used for years. And I loved it. All my most formative music appreciation experiences (Hendrix, AC/DC, Zeppelin) occurred while listening to that tape player. I never noticed a problem. Good music does not need immense high fidelity. It's nice, but not necessary in the slightest. I like a big separated sound now. I love the way Rush's A Farewell to Kings sounds on my system. But I also listened to David Bowie's Let's Dance on my phone's speakers last night while I was lying in bed, and I loved it. If you have the money, high end gear is great. But it's not something anyone should be stressing about.
I agree! When you’re happy that’s all that matters!
Awesome analogy ! I’ve been in the hobby for about 4 years now and came to the same conclusion. Get what you like/are willing to spend, and enjoy the music
Well said. Like many things in this crazy world, money can alter perception and even the truth.
It truly can!
I totally agree Michael. I've been at this hobby for almost 6 years now, starting in 2018. I can say in the last 5 to 6 years what I have learned is that ultimately amazing sound does not require you to dump your bank account. The most I have spent on a DAC so far is a few hundred and it has served me well for quite a while now.
I agree. There’s no reason to go into debt over a stereo component.
Great video! I was close to being sucked to the audiophile black hole but resisted. And now I am a lot happier and able to focus on what I really love: the music.
I’d rather spend my audio budget on great music as well!
Thanks: I also recently decided to call time on luxury goods. To this aim I’ve just now ported my digital library to lossy as I can’t reliably pick the difference. All in with a “music lover” identity that is inclusive and sustainable. ❤ your work!
Thank you Matthew! At the end of the day it’s all about the music.
This video hit it on the nail. 100% right. I’ve experienced everything he states in this video. Well done!
Thank you so much for the kind words and support! We are in the same boat!
I knew there was something about you that appealed to the honest way you speak of audio. I welcome your thoughts about equipment and new ideas, this is a great honest and truthful thought you have put across
✔️🎶
Thank you Frank, that is much appreciated!
I think what you described spans even beyond this hobby. I’m also into amateur astronomy and photography and the pissing contest is in both of those, well. Like the tube vs SS amps, class d vs other classes, same nonsense happens with reflector or refractor telescopes or cameras with or without a certain spec. I think being able to say good enough is essential. I don’t have a problem if someone wants to shell out another 20 grand more to have the tiniest improvement in detail retrieval from their music or the tiniest improvement in how they see a planet millions of miles away is fine by me. What I don’t like is the gaslighting and cyberbullying by people who don’t even know about the most basic electrical or optical designs.
Nice addendum. In photography we have the same structure, where "mentally measuring" is less abstract than in audio. At the end of the day, this is not a discussion about the hobby, but about human behavior in society.
I've been seeing a similar thing in car culture, people are now leaning more towards super and hypercars that a hell of a lot of people can't even dream of affording. Luckily, I have noticed this problem you're talking about and have decided to enjoy my music and movies with my hardware irrespective of how cheap they are. Thanks for the video.
I was listening to my high efficiency full rage speakers with my SET tube amp. Tho not expensive in the grand scheme of things. The best I could afford. I realized I was listening to the gear and not the music. Sold that stuff. Got some bookshelves and a preamp the preamp that matches my solid state power amp. Replacing all my separates and I’m done. I know my modest system isn’t the best but it’s all I need to listen to the music I love. The audiophile trap is thinking everything is the next step. I had to get off the marry go round. Thanks for this. It’s exactly where I’m at with it.
I’m glad you discovered it before you spent too much! I know how cutthroat the used market can treat sellers sometimes.
Amen, brother! I'm a recovering audioholic.
Most of us are unfortunately…
One new amp is too many and 100 is not enough 😅
Yes I understand, it's like rehabilitation from obsession, and find the real peace of ear. You're absolutely at the right point, that everyone needs it.
Thank you! 🙏
My escape from the obsessed chase for audio perfection ended when I was only 17 or so. I bought used things from classified ads, garage sales, and just picked them up off of the curb. I noticed once after buying something from Radio Shack that no improvement came without an equal and opposite change that was neither better nor worse from a technical perspective, but merely sounded or felt different. I realized that while there are better and worse built models of everything, in the margins it's all just a matter of opinion. So since I was just a very old kid I have focused on the big picture and not merely spending more on minutiae.
That’s a great way to think about it
By nature of how audiophiles have to assess equipment, they do tend to listen to the same music over and over again, because for them it is a familiar reference. This makes perfect sense. But it can start to spoil the enjoyment of those pieces of music themselves, or even spoil the enjoyment of any music.
You omitted the value of TIME. Once you have reached a "good enough" level in audio equipment (which is a very personal assessment!!), it is time (literally time) to spend more time seeking out good new music, because contrary to what some may say, a lot of good new creative music is being written by young artists who deserve support. But it takes time because apart from good new music there is even more very mediocre music being produced all the time as well. But you may just discover music which is of such high creative quality, that it makes you feel ecstatic no matter how mediocre the equipment it is played on. Isn't that the real end-game, discovering the best music that you like?
Discovering new music is the most exciting part of the hobby!
Wise words, may I suggest Goldfrapp ;)
I thank you so much buddy. You have said it all. Period!
You’re welcome! ☺️
People seem to forget it’s supposed to be about the music not how much money you spend. I still have my Marntz integrated, and 2 Harmon Kardon systems, one being tube the other solid state. Speakers were expensive at the time but they still sound great to me so I’m good.
That’s the best way to think about it
I was into hifi way back in the 80's and 90's and I'm just now getting back into it almost 30 years later and you are right. There are some snobby people out there. I have been an EDC enthusiast for the past 5 years and let me tell you, those people are there too! It's insane! If you want to match up your carry everyday, it's your prerogative. The internet has become the greatest but also the worst place to go to get information. I found out the hard way to ask is it good enough or is it future proof 🤔 😕 great video!
I’m slowly getting into EDC. I’m trying to figure out how it can fit into this channel.
@mykandrew That would be awesome! I would maybe start with what you daily carry like phone, earbuds or headphones, maybe slowly bring in other stuff like flashlights, knives, etc. 😉
@@jamesberryman9893Slowly?? I want it now! Haha.
Said very well! I'm the member who gave the 921st thumbs up. Nothing wrong with esoteric, rare, and very expensive hi fi audio products. it's just that most of us cannot afford that very high price, and possible repair, of super high end! And there has got to be a middle ground; I have posted this "middle ground" remark elsewhere on a RUclips Channel concerning hi fi audio (mostly stereo mode). I'm more of a stereo guy; although I have a subwoofer in my first main audio system, by the way. It did not get any recognition; and I'm not sure it is going to get any over here.🔉🎵🎶
My sentiments exactly. Great video.
Thank you 🙏
Spot on Mike. This hobby, like other obsessions in life can get a bit stale. I think with the economy the way it is, folks are simply saying no more. I have, after finding the sound I have been chasing for years with a vintage 1970 Sansui 4000 stereo receiver and a pair of Zu DW6 Supreme speakers. This simple setup was the game changer for me. I sold all of the other gear and speakers off... Now to address the automotive tool issue I have... ;-)
True audiophile journey starts with listening ambient music around you.
Learning why we like music and how we actually listen in life
What is process of sound creation and brain interpretation through our ears.
Learning physics and psychoacoustic involved in listening.
Learning about basic electronics and how it produces sound.
Learning about dynamics, recording and reproduction topology.
Difference between sound we hear direct and hear throughout speakers.
Resolution of recording and reproduction.
Learning about truly old authentic Hi Fi brand electronics.
I sold my separates and my Maggie 1.7's 3 years ago, replacing them with a Parasound integrated and a pair of B&W 606S2 Anniversary bookshelf speakers. Along with the REL sub, and vintage Technics tt, modest NODE streamer and a CD transport, I've got all I need. No more swapping out components in a never ending search for tiny improvements in sound... just enjoying the music.
That’s what it’s all about right there!
Spot on ............I sold my super expensive krell based system.................I spent all my time listening to the equipment. I now have a modest system . And listen to most of my music streamed.............YES now I am listening to the music:)
You aren’t the only one, there’s a lot of people freeing themselves of the burden of chasing after gear!
I need the latest and greatest, that is why I upgraded my amp in 1971, my preamp in 1983. I still use Altecs from 1978. These were state of the art in there day. I have not heard anything, that is significantly better for me, so I see no reason to upgrade. Analog tech has not changed much in the last 50 years, but I can see digital tech upgrades as DACs get better.
The fact that nearly 90% of all so-called audiophiles neglect room treatments and room acoustics is proof that the hobby is really (misguidedly) about acquisition, status, and adolescent gear fetishism.
"Adolescent gear fetishism" is absolutely spot on!!! Thank you!
Dude, Audiophiles are people who enjoy high quality music by whatever delivery it may be. They delve into the sound quality and relish in the experience. There are jerks in every group. Doing what makes you happy by the experience of music reproduction is the key. People can get swayed by charlatans in any group. Point is, it all depends on the individual and their strength of character to reinforce their hobbies that give them pleasure. I will refer to myself as an Audiophile as it is a personal journey and a hobbie that gives me great pleasure and pleasure when I share with those who will let me. No one else dictates who I am or how I act, nor do their opinions force me to change out of guilt or shame. I choose my own journey and enjoy helping along the way.
The biggest improvement in sound in my home theatre is buying eight soundproofing/diffusion panels, best money I ever spent and only cost $50 secondhand. Treat your room first before upgrading, most of the time your gear is already good enough.
So true!🤔🤫😬
Ive tried a few integrated amps over the past 5 years and the one that stood out was a 19 year old bryston b60 r. Ive since upgraded to a bryston b135. The 135 has a cleaner sound but the b60 has a more vintage not as focused but still fun sound. Solid bass definition. I may just go back to it.
I’ve never played with Bryston stuff. The politics within the community has prevented it. However perhaps someday I’ll discover their sound!
@@mykandrewTry not giving two shits about your 'community'. Just try. It's more difficult than you think.
I really liked the B60, also had a 3BST and Bryston .5B preamp with phono stage that was amazing. I preferred it to some of the McIntosh gear. I now have a Marantz PM 6006 and 8004, Marantz 6007 CD player with KLH Model 3 speakers. The newer Marantz stuff is very clean, quiet and good sounding, I am very impressed and will not be upgrading anytime soon.
It’s all about how your audio setup makes you feel. All that other stuff doesn’t matter. I agree with you… the dismissal of inquiries or snarky attitudes are disheartening.
Thank you! 🙏
Gear is better than ever. But it is evolution not revolution. For two to ten grand we can buy a system that plays great detail and vibrancy. You are so right, the problem is rising expectations and need to constantly improve. Appreciate your perspective.
Thank you! Much appreciated!
Well spoken. Thanks
You’re very welcome
What I hate the most is the law of diminishing returns, after a certain price point the differences are minimal, and you have to take out a loan to get a significant improvement.
Agreed 👍
My Marantz 2265B reciever back in 1980 got me on my audio journey After amps like Denon, NAD & Yamaha I decided to up my game in 1995 and bought a VAC tube amp, ARC LS15 tube preamp
I'm still using them to this day I've added an external DAC and streamer and two subs I must say could it be better? Probably, but I can't get the smile off my face during a listening session 😅😊
All good points ... great video
I belong to several hi fi groups in FB. I see the attitude you're referring to all the time. I'll be scrolling and see a post from a newbie who has a photo of a piece of vintage equipment--it's a vintage group--like an old Fisher receiver they are stoked to have found and I just cringe because I know that the comments are going to be full of derisive and snooty comments as well as some nice ones. It's pretty crushing to me and I can only imagine how it feels to them. I pretty much stopped upgrading about 5 years ago and now just enjoy my system and the music it plays...a happy place.
It’s sad because people really enjoy the thrill of the hunt and don’t need someone ruining their find.
One thing that makes me laugh about some audiophiles is the level of self-delusion. They want so badly for the umpteen thousands of dollars they've spent on something to be validated by a commensurate improvement in listening experience. If I just purchase this $10k cable it will transform my system. Chances are it won't. Diminishing marginal returns are a real thing.
There's also a lot of superstition and pseudo-science as part of the hobby, that if it were any other area of engineering would be laughed out of the room.
Just listen to your music and not to your gear, you might enjoy it more.
I’m with you on that!
Thank you. Well said! ❤
Thank you Paul!
I agree there's a lot of snobbery and narcisism in the audiophile world. Also hyperconsumerism. I've had the experience you mention a lot of times - asking something in a forum and being answered with contempt - when i really only and honestly wanted to learn and have more information. That's why i go to forums in the first place. Not to have arguments about who has it bigger. Since i started getting into audio i never wanted or aspired to be called an audiophile (much less consider myself one) because of this "environment" surrounding the hobby. I love life's simple pleasures, i absolutely love music (always have) and i want to have a good experience while appreciating it. That's it. I also aprreciate good value gear and i don't want to have to sell a kidney to buy some. It's about having the best experience possible while spending the least amount of money possible. And yes, i've spent more than i should.
My $10000 Electrocompaniet amp/dac and Usher speaker system sits in a room gathering dust, although the sound is fabulous, I spend most of my time listening to music on RUclips on my old Energy speakers with built in subwoofers, lol.
Sounds good enough, I've got an SOtM audio card in the 'puter, going to a R2R dac, and I've become hooked on watching the videos of the Artists, and find it hard just to sit down and listen without any visuals going on.
I believe that RUclips will eventually get hi res/lossless/dsd/whatever, and that will change the whole show.
The point is, 'hi end' will eventually shrink down to a tiny minority, because, inevitably, RUclips and streaming, based on the way computers advance, will get to a point where it CAN'T get much better, it's nearly there NOW, with upsampling/EQing apps like HQplayer etc, just being a little too complex at this stage.
I would think that in less than a decade, you will be able to simply turn on your computer that has an inbuilt, or is connected to, a relatively cheap, dac/pre/amp combo or separates, which has truly excellent sound quality which is measurably and audibly as good as squillion dollar 'hi end' systems are today, and the 'Audiophiles' will retreat back to their tubes and turntables aa a last haven of snobbery.
Agreed 👍 the way technology is moving, it seems convenience is key for many consumers.
@@mykandrew
It's more than convenience, it's going to be the real deal, there's a finite limit to what audio can reproduce, the human ear can only hear so much.
Emulation technology is taking over in the Guitar amp industry, so called 'modelling amplifiers', which were scoffed at a decade ago, are now outselling real amplifiers.
These modelling amps can reproduce the sounds of dozens of 'classic' amp brands and models.
There's no reason to doubt that this sort of technology will not be able to reproduce the sound of a $100,000 hi end system in a box the size of a cd player in the near future.
The irony is that it is quite possible that people, listening to hi end systems are enjoying the fabulous electric guitar tone of a Player who has dialled in '60's Marshall crunch tone' or similar, on a modelling amp.
Would you like to hear your music through a Chord Dave, via a McIntosh with horn speakers, or maybe a DCS Bartok and a Audio Note tube amp through some classic JBL's, what do you feel like today?
I much more enjoy watching concerts and music videos on my home theater system than listening to the same system in two channel staring at the wall!🤔🤫😉😇
I stopped using the word Audiophile, if you tell soneone you are an audiophile nowadays they instantly think you have equipment of thousands of euro and bombard you with questions of what you use and how much you spent just to question you and put you down. So i just say im an audio enthusiast to avoid the conversations. Keep preaching bro ❤️
Well said Sir!
Thank you! 🙏
Your're so right! How many Audeze headphones does one need? The initial orgasm comes when you outlay the bucks and then you forget it and look for the next titillation. Enough already and ENJOY THE MUSIC!!! (which is why you entered the rabbit hole in the first place!)
It should only be about having a system that you & you alone enjoy and are satisfied with. I drove the same Toyota for 13 years and over 300,000 miles, not because I couldn't afford to change but because I was satisfied & couldn't really justify spending $30,000 or more for something that is not really better, just newer or different. It made no sense to me. Be satisfied and be happy. Constantly seeking better is like a dog chasing his tail.
Well you certainly nailed that point home perfectly.
I considered myself an audiophile from about 1980 onwards, and spending silly amounts in the persuit of audio bliss not understanding I already found it many times. But audio snobbery convinced me the next upgrade or tweak would bring audio heaven to my ears. In reality I lost excellent systems and stupid amounts of money.
It's an addiction constantly looking for a fix that's not always needed.
I'm done too. I now spend minor amounts on equipment, but a lot more on music.
I must have some kind of genetic weakness that gets me hooked on various interests as the same thing happened with my home recording studio, my filming and photographic gear, and cars. Yikes! 😮
It’s good to know I’m not alone! What type of photo gear are you into? I really like my Panasonic!
I personally have inherited a pair of decent homebuilt speakers from my dad when he upgraded and rebuilt a center channel speaker, all three very simple 6" 8ohm speakers, and a pair of side-surround 5" bookshelf speakers that used to be part of his original 5.1 surround system from the 90s. The only HiFi speaker I've bought for myself was a 10" subwoofer from Klipsch, a demo-model that was on sale and fits in fairly well in my tiny living room. I've embraced the wait and see approach, being happy with what I've got now and waiting for what I want at the right price. Patience is the most effective weapon in an audiophile's toolbox when he's on a budget.
I agree and I am certain that setup makes you happy!
I stepped away from the high end audiophoolery and now enjoy my Marantz PM8004 integrated amp, CD player, and a Wiim Pro Plus. My cables are decent. My speakers are KLH Model 3s. This is a helluva a good sound system!
Being happy with what you have is the goal
I have completely upgraded my system in the last two years with a focus on playing vinyl.
I used reviews to guide me in part, and have spent about 18k to get where I want to be. The urge to upgraded and chase is fun to think about, but I'm happy to invest my money in records now and will try to avoid lusting over new equipment.
Nothing is better! Different yes! Everyone has different tastes and with that how can anything be better. If your happy with what you have it is best for you. Who cares what others think. My music equipment is used to fill large areas with sound I enjoy while doing other things. I do not sit and just dedicate time to just listening. I am not against it, it is just not me!
I have vintage and new gear. And I enjoy what I have. That is all that matters! Keep the videos being real!
Very well said 👍
Thank you Calvin!
I was out the audio hobby for 12 yrs. During that time i learned the sound of active speakers. But in the mean time, streamer came... these days we got the brand eversolo and i start to enjoy music as it was on cd.
I’m curious about eversolo it sounds like a fun RPG game on PC lol 😂
Another great video Mike, thank YOU. Couple of dissensions... first alignments: I think that chasing tech is tiresome and never-ending, with possibly a marginal improvement. Unless, you are Gates, Bezos, Buffet, the law of diminishing returns is the reality. And oh using "tech-talk" (the clever tech talk to win arguments) is tiresome. Now dissensions; if you can't have people who has an strong opposing view from you, then don't post of youtube or any social media. Constructive view is subjective, every argument, even the most polarize ones, have a constructive view, it depends on how you digest or dissect it. It's ok to have opposing views, that's part of a open dialogue, which is crucial for evolution.
Speaking for myself as a parallel point, I have a budget for my hifi gears (US$3K for any gear), but I do not have an allergy for people who has US$130K for any gear. Just to be clear, I'm not jealous, nor self-pitying, nor envious, that's just levels of existence. I have contacts that only have US$300 to spend for any gear, and they think that I'm "blessed" to spend at my level. But I guess the focal point is--not use our "spending power" to look down on others, or think that we know better.
Counterpoint, I have a friend that buys used gears, DIYs, modifications which is one of the best systems I've heard, aimed at lowest cost, maximum audible difference. There are other friends I have that puts "Stone Henge" in their small living room, with back ported speakers 1 inch from the backwall, without room treatments. Their system costs US$60K. I think there are some BASIC COMMON-SENSE SCIENCE that we need to know, so that we don't end up using Flat Earth arguments to justify how good our system is.
My point is, I won't allow my insecurity about my spending power, to demonize people who has much greater spending power. We do the best we can with what we are capable of spending. I agree with many people here, I'm NOT an AUDIOPHILE; I'm an audio enthusiast. Why? I know too little.
Great video. Two types of audiophiles. One buys music to listen to gear. The other buys gear to listen to music.
Very well explained. I pretty much resigned from the audiophile community. It didn’t really fit in.
I'm not keen on being classified as anything with phile in it 😂
I worked for a Linn/Naim dealer in the eighties, a lifetime ago. Back then an active LInn/Naim 6 pack, Linn Isobariks, and six Naim amps set you back $20,000.00. A lot of money back then. Today, an active Linn 360 with their latest 800 Solo amps (8 of them required) I think will set you back $375,000.00. I live in a large metropolitan area and access to this level of audio is pretty good. There has always been a diminishing return on the expense of a lot of things, it's just that the high priced stuff has really gotten high priced and it garners a lot of press. Sure, I like to read about a Honda Civic RS but the Koenigsegg Jesko is just more fun. Are they worth it? Some of it, yes. And some of it? Just skimmed thru a video where Fremer is listening to that latest Tech DAS table even more than the half-million dollar one they make. It's only worth it if people buy it and products like this are built in such low numbers that there are always enough buyers out there. But I'm not a real audiophile. I buy and keep my stuff forever; when it finally gives up the ghost and if something isn't locally available(for the most part) and serviceable I'm simply not interested in it.
Snobbery has nothing to do with "Audiophile" moniker.
Audiophile just means you love audio or perhaps more specificly music. As it happens i have been a music lover for most of my adult life and as it happens, put a massive order in to Amazon yesterday for upgrading my exsisting "Frankenstein" system plucked from the last 3 decades.
Individually the kit i ordered yesterday are far from high end but together represent a huge investment financially and i can't wait. Regarding the negative side of the hobby, i don't take any note or get involved in pointless commentary. As already mentioned by many, my purchases are for me and no-one else, so others opinions have no baring on my choices, i buy the best gear that I can afford and base my choices off videos and advice gained from like minded people such as our host Michael. In conclusion, thank you Michael for sharing your time with us and to those in the community who choose to help rather than criticize.
I was close to going down a hi-fi rabbit hole last year. Just had to stop and realize how many other finances I have. I got a schiit stack for my headphones and a modi for my Onkyo deck and that's enough for me.
Well said! I have and use older equipment that I love. I don’t feel the need to upgrade until the Bose and turntable are no longer functional. But I’m also cheap😆
The price of dealer based gear has been going up and up. The price of admission is now £1000 per unit and Hi End dealers don't seem interested below this price level. I have imported some nice gear direct from China via Ali Express at very low prices which is beautifully made and sounds excellent. I have also dabbled in pro audio active speakers. Imagine my surprise when I hooked up my new Kali Audio IN8's and found them to sound better than my much more expensive HIFI speakers!
Yeah it’s a sad reality that we can’t find more sub $1k gear at high end stores
It's a well known human failing: we always want what we cannot have. Unless I win the lottery I will never own the equipment I want. I try to remember what I had when I was twenty, and that helps...most of the time.
I bet you loved that system at 20
@@mykandrewI suspect I did too. Been many years ago.
Over on flikr, the film guys sometimes spoke of "GAS", or gear acquisition syndrome. Steve the Audiophiliac asks "Do you listen to music?", ie. When you play music, is that all you do? I agree with that. The equipment is a means, not the end. Good luck in your next journey.
Thanks for the kind words!
Every camera gear person should watch this video.. Casey Neistat said this years ago about camera bodies , lenses etc… this was done better & more universally taught. Great job man..
Don't worry about that. I've heard hundred thousand dollar systems when home didn't sound any better than mine 😂
@howardmima8376: So have I many times over.
@@bikdavMe too. Went to a Upscale place and heard $80,000 systems with my wife and we were like, THAT'S IT! Our $4000 system in a good room sounded much better. Even made sure things were set up right. 🤯 Sounded veiled.
Just slotted my Onkyo Model 732 integrated amp from around 1971-73 back into my system.
Loving it!.
You're not done my friend. You'll never be done. Us audiophiles need the drug, and the drug is the nourishment for our audiophilia. It can't be defeated.
I am old and wanted to put a decent audio system together. I joined a few groups and just endured the arse holes. I have zero problem asking questions regardless of the consequences.
ASR is the absolute worst. Example, a thread devoted to making fun of new members sincerely asking questions. The mods got at me when I asked if the members doing it were abused by their mothers during potty training. Legit question. No ban or consequences, just a locked thread with some members agreeing with the notion that the thread crossed lines.
At some point you can figure it out on your own but it takes time.
Go slow, ask questions, and learn.
Become a value buyer.
Example, 316BEE. $400 and worth every penny. Got a used one in good condition for $225 delivered. A true value purchase.
Do you and stick with your budget and have a blast.
Don’t let the bastids get you down.
This is supposed to be fun or at least satisfying…right ?
I own a lower budget 7.1 surround home theatrre system,and am very happy with that, but II see your point.
I got sucked in last year. I had Klipsch KLF20s which sound good but the mids are a bit much sometimes. Splurged for Cornwall IVs and Marantz 40n. For that $7500 expense, it was a 10 percent improvement at best. Which to be fair is probably worth $2000 to me but not $7500. Looking back I probably could have gotten close enough with a Schitt Lokius to eq the upper mids..lol. I did sell the 40n for an old HK430 and I love it.
Great video
Amen brother! Your words need to play in heavy rotation. The RUclips community of audiophiles has their heads stuck far up their own rear ends.
I have a '79 MCS turntable, an '88 Fisher graphic equalizer, a '98 Onkyo dual cassette deck, a '99 Technics 5-disc CD changer, an '07 Harman Kardon receiver, plus a Toshiba laptop loaded with mp3s. All devices are running thru the receiver and playing in two channel stereo on a pair of '91 Kenwood speakers and a pair of 2010 Dual speakers. I collect music on the cheap in all formats from thrifts, estate sales, pawn shops, resale shops, etc. All for the purpose of playing wonderful music all the time. My cobbled together system sounds great. I don't know if anything is audiophile quality and I don't care enough to even ask or explore that question. I just jam to my music because that's what's important to me.
I inherited an 80s technics stack stereo with pioneer speakers. Works perfectly as I see no need to keep buying gear. I just get tips to use it efficiently and get the best sound out of it. It's also not in a sound stage/listening room, it's in my living room, where everyone gathers to listen to it
Awesome! Maybe you can talk more about DIYing speakers in the future? Even if you don't have many tools, often you can have MDF cut into the right sizes in hardware stores. You just need some glue, buy the speakers and you are good to go. :-D
I have a really fun project coming up with DIY! Using Purifi and SB acoustics driver and tweeter
Thanks for telling the truth about Audio listening, your view is much appreciated
There’s a lot of bullshit and misunderstandings in Hifi and prices of top gear has gone crazy. That’s the real snake oil, ridiculous prices where a set of drive units in a box are the price of a supercar. Crazy.
Premium pricing is a huge problem in this hobby
@@mykandrewabsolutely. I got a brand new DAC for £6.5k. Full retail is £13k. Price is often simply as much as someone will pay. That brands can drop price by thousands is a sign something odd is happening.
Audiophile: a person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction. I never got caught up in the mess we see today (maybe because I don't approach audio gear and such with feelings? The only thing that is supposed to speak to feelings is the music. I also have always kept my eye on that end game = music. or maybe because I realize that we all have different experiences with music and sound and it is not one size fits all). I wish I could still identify with that definition of the word, but thanks to ...uh....self proclaimed "audiophiles" that is no longer the definition. To me "Audiophile" = uneducated moron with more money than common sense or the same willing to go bankrupt repeatedly chasing rainbows. I just can't identify with any of that.
Mike, I'm so glad you finally saw the truth and embraced it. You saved yourself a life of misery and perpetual unhappiness. Now you get to enjoy the music, which is the whole reason for all of it in the first place!
I love and can very much relate to what you said about "the gate keepers" and "elitists'" crowd, which is most audiophiles. Audio clubs are the very breeding grounds of such creatures! I know from first-hand experience. A "newcomer" to "the hobby" that walks into an audio club is nothing but raw meat and gets the crap beat out them and at the end told they are not worthy to be in the hobby. The reasons range from not wealthy enough to not liking the right kind of music or artists of the week. This is also true of on-line forums and the like.
To me personally, being called an audiophile is an insult.
I had 4 sets of speakers in some years they were all older than the other.. all sounded great in there own way 😊.
Now have a marantz 40n with D17 speakers and love the sound.
But if the others didn't break because of age. I would listen to them still 😊
The 40n is a fine piece as are all Marantz integrated amplifiers.
@@earlyetman5588 Thanks, it's my first marantz but i'm indeed very happy with it.
A super combo with my speakers 😄
The elitists were always there. In every hobby. Sod them. Who cares? If I have a 4 year old Fosi Audio amp and I want something new, but I can only afford their new one, then that's what I'll get. If I can afford a Bryston, then Bryston it is. There's also very affordable second hand gear you can get, to feed the hunger of trying out new components.
Always buy more music than gear. If you have 1k to spend a year, buy something with $400 and the rest spend it on music. For example, let's say you always had solid state amps. Spend that $400 to get a hybrid one from Dayton, so that you introduce yourself to another architecture and thus sound character. If next year you decide you want to go full tube, sell it, add it to next year's $400 and get a second hand tube amp...and so on.
The problem with selling gear nowadays is the low ball culture that exists. Nothing sells for what it should anymore.
@@mykandrew Yes, I agree. But it works both ways. In my example, I'd expect to sell that Dayton, for $150 tops. Now, next year with $550, I can get something used, that's also better than that Dayton. Something from the last 5-6 years, that new was possibly more a grand.
To be an audiophile you don’t have to find a way to fit some criteria of the culture, just simply be passionate about it and that’s it, after that everything else is subjective, it’s ok to be in your own world and be content or pursue as you wish for the passion. I’m an audiophile bc I love music, I’m an audiophile bc I play music, I’m an audiophile bc I like to talk about music, I am an audiophile bc I go to concerts, I’m an audiophile bc i listen to music on my phone, I’m an audiophile bc I collect music, I’m an audiophile bc I build music devices and instruments, I’m an audiophile bc it is my muse and zen. I’m not an audiophile bc I “have a better setup than someone else” and I’m not anything less than an audiophile bc someone else has a better setup or knows something about a particular subject when it comes to music than I do. An audiophile can be someone who likes to visit nature observe wolves howling, listen to the ocean, crumble paper, and avant- garde artist is no less an audiophile than a classical artists. Anyone can proudly be an audiophile at any given time, just partake, it’s not a hidden science. I’ll never be done being an audiophile, and I don’t need someone’s affirmation or acceptance.
That’s a good way to look at it!
I like following audio tech like bluetooth, mp3, cd's, streaming, etc...but my hobby is appreciating the style of vintage stereos. I has several Pioneer receivers and a pair of speakers made as far back as '73, also Sansui and Kenwood. The fun is finding something at garage sales and doing som basic tuneup like replacing fuses, caps, bulbs, and even replace with real wood panels. It's also interesting to keep and eye on the new gear too. My recent modern speakers are the Triangle B02 bookshelves, modestly priced under $200. Records are fun to collect. I don't really need "new" audio gear these days! For me, it's about the music and appreciationg for the style of the the era. It's not about how much it cost or wut's latest and greatest...just not my focus.
Don't buy exotic cars either. Point of diminishing return.
Or a Rolex watch.
Custom built home.
Fly 1st class.
Stay in a resort.
Eat organic food.
Use an I phone.
Big screen high def tv.
Because "diminishing return"
Or does it ONLY apply to audio Michael?
I see your point.
All good as long as you’re not a snobby biaaatch about it
@@raymoore8435That's the point as you said.😬
Well said. Also, I find it harder to sell used equipment. I used to sell my equipment to be able to afford my next component. That's becoming difficult these days in my view. You lose more than half in the used market now if you find a buyer.
I think the first step to renouncing your audiophile title is to donate me your parasound p6 preamp. Seriously though, I would like to see you do another video explaining it's home theater bypass mode and integration into home theater and stereo dual -use systems. Also thanks for inspiring me to scour bargain bins for CDs that I could never afford before as I love music first also.
I fought hard to stay in the audiophile rat race, but like an aging boxer well pass his prime, I no longer have the legs or stamina ( money and obsession ) to keep chasing that incredibly expensive and elusive "Absolute Sound". Who can say what the best sound is, anyway? I will relax and enjoy my audio system, and go to live concerts when possible.
Well said!
Mr. Pete------->
aging hippie
Thank you 🙏
Its all fun and games until you hear something that you can't replicate and then you're off chasing the dragon.
I was good back in 2006 when i was more interested in moving to another country. Shipped all my stuff there and was happy with my gear until the Accuphase amp died.
Stimulus came and do did that money. Replaced everything.
Unfortunately my old Maggie's sound better than the new ones even though the right speaker buzzes. No was it can be repaired in the 3rd world.
Agree with you that diminishing returns in traditional electronics and snobbery is afflicting the hobby. However, I don't agree with individual preferences being a quest. Measurable transparency is the quest, i.e., high fidelity, and right now, that's available in electronic components at modest prices, as long as you go 100% digital. Transducers (speakers, headphones) are the only components that you should be spending the bulk of your budget on. The only sensible way to treat and shape sound is DSP, not valves and fuzzy DACs, IMO.
Example of a current transparent and adjustable electronic chain:
WiiM + NAS + MiniDSP Flex + latest Class D power amp.
Audiophile rejection of solved electronics technology is not convincing. It sounds like a heap of hype and nostalgia to me.
I did buy a demo model amp 4 years ago. Yamaha R-N 803D with musicast app for streaming. I would like to thank the dealer for leaving his corporate password for a streaming APP which I have used free of charge for 4 years. I have discovered more music and purchased more Vinyl.....🙂
Very interesting.
Why build a system that’s so revealing that the only thing I can stand listening to is $150 Steely Dan records? A lot of great albums were recorded under less than ideal circumstances.
Agreed, it’s also good to note that many albums were mastered poorly as well also affecting the end result.
Yes and snob audiophiles don't appreciate good music because of this in a lot of cases.
So true!🤔🤫
Almost went down that UHQR rabbit hole myself.
Its fun to make budget or older secondhand gear sound good.
Same why older bycicles ride just (almost) as good as 5x dearer new ones.
Same with older sailboats that you can live on and travel half the world with.
Dont know much about cars but I owned a Lada. lol
Simple 200 dollar chrome books will suffice too. (nowadays)
I let all the status snobs throw their money over the fence. (good they fill the tax-kitty)
Bytheway music is allmost free nowadays and sounds allmost just as good
if you do your best but the artist have to play liveconcerts to make some money.
Its maybe not fair. It depends from which angle you look at it but thats a
different discussion.
I agree ☝️
Don't worry, utuber Audio Masterclass is a guy who teaches an online course to sound engineers, and he insists he is NOT an audiophile. He does admit though to being a music enthusiast. He is like me. I too will wrassle to the ground anyone who calls me an audiophile.
I do like his channel! And I agree!
What happened to the Yamaha separates!!!! Like the Yamaha Aventage CX-A5200 replacement? No more Sony ES or Onkyo Integra superstate processors has surely driven the price up to where we need Anthem or Emotiva. Yamaha used to use Sabre DACs for under $2,700.00. I blame the withdrawal of the Japanese high-end (excluding Marantz / Denon) for the limited availability and higher prices of "audiophile" like home theater separates. Remember the Yamaha DSP with movies that needed some sparkle? So disappointed for the last decade.
I do consider myself an audiophile. I am done chasing though lol. Dac's are closer and just different flavors. I now prefer transparent representation of music. No needed color and my amplifiers are many. I have Kenwood Model 11 and Model 11 iii, an 8300, PS Audio model 100C, Sansui 5000 and a Denon AVR. Yet my best to me amplifiers are now my Crown XLI 3500 and XLS 2502 fed by my RME ADI-2 PRO FS R BE as my dac and preamplifier. My latest purchase is a few Picker Internationa/Crown M600 amplifiers that are 20 amp and need a proper set up of new dedicated wiring just for them. I have Zu Omen Def Supreme speakers and RSL 12S Subwoofers. Tektons are my next speaker purchase. I have a few other dac's I can play with and some new SPL Elector preamplifier and SPL Crossover. Now not cheap gear yet not the super high end either. Sounds great to me and always on at my home. I enjoy it and realized that a lot of the high end gear is just not as enjoyable to me. I always have things going on and am doing things, so just sitting and listening is a rare thing for me. Your assessment is spot on in many ways. Happy listening to all!
Thank you for the support!
Where to begin? I have loved listening to music my whole life. I am retired and this is a hobby I now have the time to truly enjoy. In a very short time, I have come to absolutely hate the term Audiophile. I fall into both ends of the spectrum of whatever the f#&k and "audiophile" is. On the one end, the term "spectrum" takes on an entirely new meaning to the point of being very off putting.
I have been called an Audiofool, golden ear, spend thrift. On the other hand, I have people that have listened to my system with their jaw dropped. What equipment I have DOES NOT MATTER! I fully understand the point of diminishing returns. I have punched so far above my paygrade for the equipment I have. The key components are used because I could never afford them new. that being said, its beyond even my point of diminishing returns.
When someone listens to your system and is as blown away as you are is extremely rare, no matter the level you are at. I have been accused of bragging by most that have listened my equipment. They don't get it. Its considered excessive to most everyone, but when you find those that hear what you are hearing and appreciate it, it becomes a shared love of the sound and even then, most would not commit to devoting the time and money into it.
People do not consume music the same way. the range of listening styles and habits are as varied as the number of listeners there are. The first five decades of my life was spent with sub-par hand me down equipment because that's all my family priorities would allow. All the while knowing what I truly wanted to hear, not to show off. I went from zero to end game in one year because that's what I wanted for me. I would never criticize any one's system that is listening to it for enjoyment. Can similar sounding system to mine be obtained for less cost? I would certainly think so. However, I believe that I would have had to spend four times what I did finding it.
The point of this video is spot on! No matter where you are in this hobby be decent to those trying to share in its enjoyment and just appreciate what it is for you.