I love my Sundara!! Simply one of the best in my collection so far, it sounds so smooth, so lively!! Loved your review, you explain in detail with simple words!! Keep up the good work!!
Outstanding review as always! I've had my Sundara's for 6 months and love them. They are my first "audiophile" head phones and blow my old Sony's away. I'm bare bones/low budget running them from my iPhone into an iFi nano iDSD Black Label DAC into a Schiit Magi Heresy and they sound incredible. Thank you for the advice on upgrading the cable. I agree with your review/opinion and highly recommend the Sundara's. Keep up the great work.
Just watched a bunch of your reviews and I think content and delivery are spot on. I like the way in which you describe what you are hearing....a nice middle ground between the 'science vs passion' extremes that I've come across recently. I've had my Sundara's for a few weeks now and really like them.....they sounded intriguing when I first put them on and really to my liking after some mild EQ tweaks. Right now they're getting more head-time than my HD650's or Focal Elear's. For anyone interested, mine are almost certainly the latest revision...if indeed that makes any difference in respect to how they sound.
I loved my Sundara and only sold them due to downsizing. Once I had sold my heresy there was little point in keeping them. To me they just didn’t shine from a more compact portable solution. But from a nice amp and dac I found them to be fantastic. I found the build really odd on them. Simultaneously feeling like a tank and cheap at the same time. I feel like a better slider on the headband and some real leather (and a cable that isn’t terrible) and they would be an amazing set. They have the sound already.
Thanks for a very well thought out review. I recently brought the sundaras to go with my ifi zen can they sound fantastic together. Can't recommend them highly enough
Thank you for a wonderful review. I completely agree that the Sundara is wonderful. As for handling I don’t have the same experience as you, I find it quite OK to handle. I use the Sundara with my iPad Pro and an Apple USB-C DAC dongle which works OK but lacks a bit of power (I keep it at about 80% volume). With my iPhone XS I am at 90% volume with the Lightning DAC adapter. Still the sound is so much more comfortable than what I get with my DT-770s. I am considering getting the EarMen Tr-amp because I like to keep things portable. Keep up your good work!
Hi Tormod, glad you're enjoying the Sundaras and thanks for sharing your setup - it might help others with similar devices to know what to expect. The TR-Amp would be a great match and a nice upgrade in power and sound quality I expect.
@@PassionforSound I just bought the Sundaras here in Sydney as a start into hifi world (with a Zen DAC) and really appreciated your comprehensive review. They are brilliant. These are a jump up from the Sony XM4s -- which sound surprisingly good wired btw -- on the Zen DAC listening to lossless.
@Scott D This is the way I would love to approach audio. A few different sets of speakers and a few different sets of headphones. Cover all types of music and use cases. Alas, I don't have the space or money for that. Possibly one day.
Hi;, loved the review, thanks . I JUST ordered a pr. Of Sundaras they’ll be delivered tomorrow. After watching your take and comparisons I’m vey excited. I already own the Focal Clear, Sen. 6xx and a pair of Grados. Again thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. Stay Safe, Tom
I have a Grado SR80x and I am looking for my next pair. I have these shortlisted HiFiMan Sundara, Edition XS, Audeze MM-100 and the HD600. What should I go with? I usually listen to Classical music and some Coke Studio
@@PassionforSound Frankly, I wouldn't know. Haven't heard anything else except my own Headphones. Grado and Sennheiser HD450. I want something more musical, dynamic, with better vocals
I did this same upgrade recently. The only thing the 4xx does better, or at least more of, is shaky, thumping sub bass. But stage, clarity, this fragile beauty, clear highs and mids that aren't harsh are all clearly better on the sundara. Also, I find the 4xx slightly more comfy and more comfy to handle, just like pointed out in the video, sundara is kinda hard angles in the hand. Couldn't agree more though, once on head, they are great. Also, both eq exceptionally well. So quite easy to up the sub bass a lil. On that note, with both cans eqd based on their measurement to the Harman curve, the sun's still sounded clearer, more open stage and more resolution.
@@mattgrover3096 4 Months on, still loving them. Had same feeling with the bass Until I installed Peace EQ and used the Harmon presets from Oratory1990. Tamed the treble a smidge and warmed up the bass. Fantastic.
Another great review. For a fairly neutral tuning seems like the HD560s is the benchmark at $200usd and the Sundara is the next step up at $350usd. HD560s have a bit more bass but Sundara's do resolve more. Granted I'm rocking the Focal Clear's but when most of my friends ask what to get they're looking at lower price points, which is fair I'm just happy people exploring options besides ANC headphones (those have their place too but I have some friends that thought that was the "best" out there".)
@@PassionforSound I’m sure some people or genres will still prefer the mid focused HD6XX, plus the HD6XX scales better with higher end gear. But the bass and treble extension in the HD560s is going fit a lot of modern genres.
Great review! I can't tell if you have the version with the updated pads or not from the video. I spent way too much time trying to find the best all around headphone sub-$500 and the Sundara came out on top by a long shot. It's really an incredible value. I highly recommend adding a bit of EQ to bring the bass and sub bass up a bit. The Sundara's driver is incredibly capable and handles EQ very well without distortion. Also, Oratory1990 just released the settings to bring it to the Harman target for the updated version. I use a modified version of this, but with EQ, these headphones really are incredible.
Hi Jason, I'm not sure, but I think it's the original version. That's interesting to hear about the EQing options. I don't generally bother with EQ and like to enjoy headphones for their tuned sound, but that's just my personal preference.
@@PassionforSound Ah yea, It's nice to have the flexibility though, given a headphone design will always have tradeoffs and no frequency response is perfect for anyone, I love that I can make slight adjustments and get a lot more out of a headphone. With the Sundara, this is especially true as the driver is extremely capable. The Bass with a bit of EQ boost goes from good to "Wow". Even if you don't keep it, I def recommend testing them with a bit of a bass boost, a 3-5 db low shelf filter at 105 hz is just about perfect.
@@jasonfranciosa hello thanks for sharing, completely agree that sundara is amazing especially with eq a little boost on low end. Do you use only low shelf filter from 105 hz or something else? This as i understand comes from oratory 1990 eq. Thanks.
I have both the sundara and the Clears. I agree. The Sundara shines in rich orchestral pieces while the Clears punch hard in few tracks. Both are tremendous for the price and what they deliver
I can drive these cans with a damn smartphone. I've no problem with the industrial design of these cans and I haven't even bought them yet but I'm going to. Hell yes. I have a perfect spot on my headphone display right beside my Sennheiser HD 600s. Thanks for the brilliant critique lad.
Super review!!! Late to the party, just picked up a pair and will sell off the HE 400SE's.Thanks a lot your efforts. I really love your way of reviewing and have bought some of your recommendations accordingly.. 👍😎👍
Now that was an excellent review from someone who clearly knows hi-Fi, and has a strong technical background. I own HD600 and HD650 and am wanting to buy a planar magnetic headphones to add to my collection, and I’m considering the Sundara and the Audeze LCD-X 2021 edition. I’m sure the Audeze headphones will out perform the Sundara, but they should at more than 3x the price. The issue I have with the LCD-X is their 620gm weight. I do like the HD800S, but they have flaws (rolled off bass and peaks in the treble) and aren’t really worth their price, I feel. Ian not a fan of Focal headphones.the one thing that concerns me about HiFiman headphones is their reputation for poor quality control and questionable reliability, although that has improved in the last couple of years a dealer told me.
HiFiMan have definitely improved things in recent years. I know own almost every headphone they make and have had zero issues with any of them 🙂 Glad you liked the review!
Thanks for an other excellent review and video production! I have an Earmax Pro amp that has been sitting in a box for 14 years. I am finally realizing that I should bring it out and use it since I spend 95% of my time in front of my lap top. With a good DAC these should be great!
Thank you for your detailed but yet easy to understand review. I appreciate you actually getting into specifics about powering these headphones. I probably watched 10 other reviews on the same model and everyone simply says you need a bit of power to run them but never actually give us numbers. I have my liquid spark amp on the way so hopefully that handles the situation just fine.
Hi Jay, no problems - glad I can help! The Liquid Spark should do fine with these I think. They're not crazy difficult headphones unless you're looking to crank up huge amounts of EQ or play them at dangerous listening levels
@@PassionforSound I think you mentioned in your video if I want to upgrade the cable there was something else that worked better. Also,, I’m new at this so please forgive my ignorance. I purchased a generic cable to go from my dragonfly dac to the liquid spark amp. Do you think there would be something better than just a simple generic 3.5mm to RCA connector? Thank you for your expertise. I greatly appreciate it.
Hi Jay, a basic cable from a company like AudioQuest or a similar quality cable manufacturer will generally be a worthwhile upgrade on the most basic cables out there. Nothing too expensive - just $30 or so is all you probably need to spend (i.e. don't feel the need to invest a fortune into this cable as it would be false economy to spend too much)
good review and well explained. Irrespective of price you compared them with the much higher priced headphones in terms of soundquality. Not many reviewers do tht. Hopefully i would like mine. thanks PaS
Thanks for the review. I’m not into measurements, as to me, in general, all that matters is how they sound, but there was a bit of a hole created when Tyll quit Innerfidelity. I suspect if you can do measurements as credibly as he did, it will help your channel and broaden your appeal. All just IMO, of course. Thanks for doing what you do. I enjoy watching.
Thanks Jim. I need to be a little careful because I'm not using a pro test rig, but I'll start to share some measurements and discussion of them from now on.
I enjoy your reviews as much for getting music recommendations as the gear :) Can't believe I hadn't heard of that Beastie Boys album before - thanks for turning me on to it!
I watched a movie with these for the first time. Yes the music is awesome on these but for some reason i didnt expect movies to be as good as they were. That was a pleasant experience.
Hi Lachlan. Bit late for the review but I purchased the Sundara’s a couple of months ago and been running them with the Heretic. Just purchased a new but boxed never opened Lyr 2 and I am hopeful that the extra power will really drive the Sundara’s to greater heights.
@@PassionforSound thank you for the reply! Already thinking ahead to tube rolling with the Lyr 2! Another audio rabbit hole I’ve fallen in! This hobby is going to be the financial death of me!
For most Hifiman stuff from HE400s to Sundara you definitely need to be prepared to buy aftermarket cable and also aftermarket ear pads. I used to have HE-400S quite a long time ago, the sound quality improved a lot with dekoni leather pads. HE-400S is the modern day HE-400SE and I think back then it retailed around 299-349 dollars.
I agree on the cable topic. They're trying to get better, but still have a way to go. There are some excellent, affordable cables available now though and it's great that all HiFiMan models use the same 3.5mm connectors now.
Great review and I really like sections with the comparison and quicklinks against other high end headphones such as the Focal Clears, Empyreans etc. It goes to show what amazing value the Sundara offer. Would you recommend the Focal Clear (used at about 850€) over the Hifiman Sundara (350€ New) and why? Thank you and keep the great reviews coming!
Thanks Abdullah! (Hope I got your name right) The Clears are better in many ways, but they're also different in that they are a little bit u-shaped compared to the quite linear Sundaras. They have better detail retrieval and speed, but they're not as smooth sounding so it depends on what you're after. Sorry I can't give you a more definitive answer!
Very good review again. I totally agree. I own a pair of Sundaras and I am very happy with the purchase besides I got them when they had a 50 € discount. I use them with my computer or while doing something at home fed by Fiio Btr5 or Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt (way better with the Dragonfly but they tend to disconnect when moving and I have to disable and enable OTG again for Neutron to connect again). I wanted an IEM with good value for the money and got the Moondrop Blessing 2. They sound very good, being an IEM you can notice some soundstage, but they are too bright for me. If you find a Sundara like IEM it would definitely be a review worth my while.
Another well done review. I owned the Sundara for a short period of time. There were two flaws that prevented me from enjoying them; high frequency harshness and a congested presentation. I wouldn't say they are bad but not headphones which I would recommend. They seem universally well liked, especially for their price.
Hi can, having seen a range of comments, it seems that this might be a revision issue and it sounds like the model I have might be a newer revision version which would explain why my experience might be different to yours.
Hi, great review, very well explained. I was wondering if you ever tested the Ultrasone 2900 Pro, and if so how does it compare according to you to the Sundara. The Ultrasone have a V shaped signature, but also a great soundstage. Soundstage is one of the things that really matters for me. But I like some bass even on classic music as it gives a warmer sound, and more impact. Thus I wonder if both headphones are similar or complementar. Thanks in advance!
Glad you liked the review, Raoul. I've never tried the 2900 Pro. I used to own some Ultrasone HFI 680s and later some Edition 8s (I think) so I know and like the Ultrasone sound, but can't compare the Sundara and 2900s for you. Sorry!
Great review as always. Very detailed and informative. Do you have an opinion on the Drop+HiFiMan HE5XX? Are these any closer to the Sandara than the HE4XX? Thanks for your assistance.
Thx for the review. Nice to see as I recently purchased these. I am waiting on the cable upgrade that i am getting. Then it will be dac/amp choice once the $$ can be saved. Cheers
I'm, yes... I think. That was a weird bit of wording on my part. I don't use a script so I sometimes say things that are a touch unclear. Normally I catch them on the fly and redo, but I missed this one 😳
An awesome review. I usually can’t sit through reviews more than 15 minutes but yours went by super quick which shows how much I enjoyed it! Detailed, well presented, well-edited and also very substantial arguments brought up. Great song recommendations too - love that Beastie Boys album! I know this is quite a late comment from the day this video was posted but I just had to commend you on the quality and hard work. I don’t even usually comment either! Want to show my support to the audiophile community and reviewers like you that ease the mind of us (sometimes clueless) consumers. Subbed!
my pair of sundaras arrived just the other day (my first ever "audiophile" headphone) and honestly im too excited to put them on to even notice how they feel in the hand. Imo these kinda things are good ways to cut costs when making these kinda products. They aint there for me to show off, they there purely for my enjoyment of listening to them.
Your reviews always full of details, make you feel that I have them in my hands. Very interesting features for the price, my HIfiman HE400i also has hard edges, perhaps characteristic of Hifiman mid-range. But his sound is very good.
Love the reviews. I enjoy checking out the music you use as I find new clean music to enjoy. Would these headphones be a good direction to go if I'm happy with the overall presentation of my old HD600? I'm not ready to upgrade just yet, but I find these interesting.
@@PassionforSound Thank you. My HD600 are 18 years old and I suspect things have changed. Love the videos and it's great seeing you post in the comments. Your efforts are appreciated.
Another terrific review! Happen to know if these headphones are hifimans latest 2020 editions? I have heard that this newer revision sounds better than previous ones. I'm curious how one can tell what revision they are getting. I guess they have done silent revisions on headphones over the years. Curious to hear what you think of other hifimans such as the ananda and ayria. Thank you!
Thanks Brandon. Some other commenters seem to think they are the latest revision, but I can't be certain. If these aren't the latest then the new ones sound even better which would be brilliant. I'm hoping to review a few more HifiMan headphones in the future so stay tuned 😉
Thank you SO much for this review, I especially found the explanation of the power requirements useful! Have I got this right: The FiiO M9 delivers 220mW（32Ω /THD+N＜1%，2.5 balanced power - so not powerful enough?? The FiiO M11 delivers 550mW（4.2V）（32Ω /THD+N＜1%）2.5 balanced power - so is powerful enough?? Man I find this confusing!
You've got it, but that's for LOUD levels or if you're boosting frequencies with an EQ. I've just tried the Sundara on the Shanling Q1 which outputs 80mW and it manages ok despite being close to max volume (about 80% for my comfortable listening level) so I'd expect the M9 would still be ok if you aren't looking for super loud levels or lots of EQ boost.
Hi Lachlan. Thanks for another great review. I’m seriously considering buying these. But I was interested in your comments re a lack of separation when listening to the Elgar cello concerto. I listen to a lot of classical music including orchestral symphonies etc and separation is important. Would the lack of this be a big enough negative not to buy these Sundara please? Thanks again
Hi Ian, if you're a big classical listener, I think the Sundara is ok, but I also think you can do better with options like the Verum 1, Ananda (if you can stretch your budget), or the Sivga SV023 (review coming soon).
@@PassionforSound thanks Lachlan. Yes I mostly listen to classical music now. So ideally want something with excellent detail, soundstage, separation and imaging. Thanks
Hi, Just wondering what the schiit products on your desk are and whether they are your go to schitt stack or just ones up for review. Im thinking of purchasing some schiit equipment & just wondering if you could recommend the best schiit Dac amp combo if price wasn’t an issue except Yggdrasil of course. Great reviews by the way. Thanks and keep them coming.
Hi Nick, glad you like the reviews. The pile of Schiit on my desk is a Bifrost 2 and Asgard 3. I'd recommend both for what they are, but my go-to setup involving these products is actually the Bifrost 2 feeding the Topping A90. I'm yet to find my perfect Schiit amp because I haven't tried tooany of them. The Burson Soloist 3XP will be replacing the A90 soon too
I'm planning to get the Sundaras and pair them with a Topping E30/L30 stack. Do you think that would be a good fit? Also considering the D50s/A50s/P50? stack but judging from your reviews it seems like not too good value compared to the E30/L30. I only really like the bluetooth making it semi-portable and the balanced output but idk if that really makes a difference so might not be worth it. I'm taking the next step from my ultra budget Fiio E10 (OG from 2011) and Superlux HD681 Evos.
Hi Hunter, I still think the E30/L30 stack is one of the best deals around so I'd definitely recommend that. The D/A/P50 stack is overpriced for the performance I think. Just run the E30 off a phone charger rather than USB from a computer and you'll be set.
@@PassionforSound Thanks for the reply. I just found your channel and loving every bit of it! Instantly subscribed. I think I'll follow your advice and get the 30 stack since I was already finding the 50 stack to be out of my budget anyway (considering they cost more than the Sundaras). I'll live without the bluetooth then. Keep up the good work! 😊
I don't know what it is with this channel, but you always upload a video on something I'm going nuts over to buy or not. I've got my little schiit stack now, and it's time to go from my HE-400i to the SUNDARAS. Would you ever consider reviewing the holy trinity of cheap audiophile?? The KSC75, Kph30is and porta pros from koss. I just got my second pair of ksc75s and I was worried that they wouldn't be up to snuff compared to the HE-400I and Takstar pro82, monoprice retros and MH751 that I've been using since my original pair broke, but I was worried for nothing, in terms of sound signature they're still my favorite (almost perfect for me), such good headphones. Anyways, love the channel! Keep it up man!!
Thanks Andy, glad I'm on your purchasing schedule 😉 I've actually got the PortaPros here now for review soon and I've owned the KSC75 for years now. Both are excellent (even if they look a little funny). I'll see if I can slip the KSC75 into the review for you.
Mine came in today in just a plain box similar to what Drop uses sometimes for their headphones mostly brown with a little strip that indicated it was Hifiman Sundara and no booklet and a QR scan box with warranty and a serial and if you follow them on Facebook an extra 6 months warranty no booklet though. I can't figure out which version I got. I bought mine from Newegg.
Nicely done. Luv my Sundara's As I'm trying to tweak (eq) on my Sundara's via my iMac the internal eq is not system wide or PEQ and most important doesn't play via streaming services :( Have you tried the new Sonarworks reference Id ? They are using what I think is the old version Sundara reference graph. Any suggestion for a mac friendly PEQ ? Thanks in advance.
Hi Bruce, I actually recently reviewed SoundID here on the channel, but I don't think I tried it with the Sundaras. That said, I haven't tried this, but can you apply as EQ using SoundID without first applying a calibration curve? Other than that, I'm afraid I'm no help because I'm not a Mac user.
Awesome Review my friend, I have watched almost all the reviews and I recently bought the Sundara headphones after seeing the review. Thank you so much for the great review. I am looking out to enhance the sound experience by upgrading my Magni headphone AMP to another one which will best suit these headphones, any suggestions??. I have Topping D90 DAC with Node as the Streaming Source.
Hi EF, glad you liked it. I think you'll be very happy with your choice. I've been using the Meze Audio balanced upgrade cable for the 99 series headphones (amzn.to/3aW4m5Q) but do keep in mind that it's a shorter cable so it depends on your setup whether that's helpful or not
Hi Man Great review as usual I need your recommendation PLZ! I am planning to use the Sundaras for Mastering/Mixing at home studio. Using Apollo twin X, Do I need an amp? What is the best set up for apollo/headphone amp? I am choosing Magni 3+, what do u think?!! Thank you in advance
Hi Andrew, adding a Magni 3+ is probably a good idea for the Sundaras. Audio interfaces are rarely good as drivers of headphones so I think the Magni will really help.
Hello, when you wrote your written review of the Ifi Zen Can signature Hifiman using the Sundara did you use the stock Hifiman Sundara cable or a custom cable or a balanced one? I have both the Sundara and Edition xs and also the Ifi Zen Can signature Hifiman and I'm playing with the idea of upgrading the cable to a balanced one. Will it be worth it? What improvements will I get if any? I appreciate any feedback from you. Thanks.
Waiting for these to be delivered to me right now. Bought an HE400i 2020 just a month ago and straight away decided that i want more. Hope my AE-5 sound card will handle them fine. :)
Ooh, you might be stretching the soundcard - it'll be interesting to see. I think you'll live the sound though. Noticeably warmer, but better in so many ways I think
@@PassionforSound yeah, it may be a little too much for the little thing. But we'll see. I will probably get an external solution later this year, but i think an AE-5 will handle it fine.
@@PassionforSound hello. I've got the Sundaras. They sound very good from an AE-5, and i like the sound signature. Somewhat brighter than an HE400i 2020, like a breath of cold, fresh air. But i'm sure they can do better with a proper amp.
Glad to hear they work. If they sound brighter than the HE400 then I dare say it's lacking sufficient power for them as the Sundara should be noticeably warmer than the HE400i, but if you're happy with the sound then that's all that matters! 🙂
is there a portable DAC/Amp combo that you would recommend for these? currently have the small Fiio Q1 MkII. seems like it would work okay, but wouldn't mind something a little more powerful?
I don't think I'd choose the Sundaras for mixing. Both the HD600 and DT 900 Pro X would be preferable for me, but any headphone you choose will have compromises to account for when mixing.
That will work ok. I would probably start with the HifiMan Sundara. They're brilliant and very versatile. If the iFi can take external power I'd also recommend trying it with a separate power supply like a phone charger or battery pack
The Sundara are a very different headphone and a good musical enjoyment headphone. They could work for a secondary mixing option, for sure. They're not as accurate as the S4X (tonally, I mean), but not too far off.
Well done again. You just talked me into a Bifrost 2 to add to my A90 😄. I was looking at the Sundara or HD600 for a gift for someone that listens to classical and jazz. Do you (or anyone else reading) suggest one or the other for those styles in particular?
I'm using exactly that setup at the moment (B2 + A90) and it's great! As for the headphone question? The Sundara would be my choice. Both will be great with jazz (600 may be slightly better), but the Sundara will be notably better for classical (IMO)
I’d buy the HD600. I own the HD600 and the HD650 and I find myself reaching for my 600’s more often, they have such a glorious midrange and resolving, detailed highs. Their base is merely adequate though. Vocals and instrumental works are brilliantly rendered on the HD600. I run them from a new iPad Air with a Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt headphone amp/Dac streaming Tidal Masters (MQA) as well as Apple Music Lossless/hi res music files. I upgraded the cables to Cardas Parsec 1M and that improved an already great headphone even more.
I love the Hawks (I have the originals), but they're VERY different headphones. The Hawks are distinctly coloured compared to the Sundaras neutrality, but the Hawks do better in terms of transparency and agility compared to the slightly thicker/heavier sound (i.e. heavier note weight) from the Sundaras.
I just put in my order for a pair of these for fathers day! What do you recommend as a affordable dac/amp for these? I'm thinking modi 3 and magni heresy.
Nice! I'd probably go for the Modi Multibit and Magni 3+ I think. I personally didn't love the Heresy so definitely Magni 3+. I think either DAC (Modi 3 / Multibit) would do just fine.
Hi Marc, it all depends on the power output of each device so I can't say for certain, but I'd suggest that an amp would be needed for the iPhone to get the best from the Sundaras. The Walkman might be ok without an amp, but I couldn't see power output figures easily so I can't be certain
Question Lachlan, Apos do international shipping to Australia? Cause just done the conversion and if Order through them, I save $100 aussie dollars, which is a deal !
I deliberately don't specify amp/DAC pairings in my reviews unless there's a very specific issue with the headphone that requires a specific type of amp/DAC (e.g. the HD800S). In most cases, there are way too many possible combinations to cover effectively without accidentally misleading people. The best option for any headphone IMO is a discrete amplifier and a DAC with a good ability to produce depth and width in the soundstage. That said, there are lots of great options and some people prefer the chip-based amps and delta sigma DACs that produce less depth in the soundstage and a flatter, wall-of-sound type of presentation.
Hi Adrian, they can work with any amp so it really depends on the voicing of the amp. I personally wouldn't use them with a particularly thick/warm sounding amp like say a Darkvoice 336SE, but no all tube amps sound like that. I haven't heard the Valhalla 2 so I can't specifically comment, but I'd recommend checking some reviews to see if the Valhalla 2 is relatively neutral (for a tube amp which will always have a degree of colouration, but doesn't have to be overly warm and thick)
Hey mate, do you think the Loxji D30 can make this headphone work decently ? I am on a budget, ortherwise I might have to make a painful effort and grab a topping L30 E30 stack ;)
Done some testing. The D30 and Sundara work quite well, but I'd say it right on the edge of properly powering the Sundaras. You can get plenty of volume, but the sound is a touch thinner (i.e. less bass presence) than with a more powerful amp.
Hi! You guys might help me here. I bought the Sundarars and a Ifi Zen dac. I wanted to plug my headphones to the balanced output so I bought an extra 3.5mm female to 4.4mm male jack adaptater. The problem is that it got worse, so much worse... there was a buzz sound and the music got all messed up. Si I send back my adaptater thinking it had an issue... So my question is : is the Sundara stock cable balanced ? Do I just have to get a working 3.5mm to 4.4mm adaptater to use the Ifi zen dac balanced output? Thanks. Hope someone find this message
Hi Florent, you need to get the 3.5mm plug on the Sundara cable removed and replaced with a 4.4mm to use balanced. You can adapt balanced cables back to single ended (i.e. 4.4mm cable adapted to plug into 3.5mm), but not the other way around. This is because the balanced output has 4 distinct outputs and trying to make it single ended is short circuiting two of those outputs.
I own ifi zen dac that powers my 58x, and I'm looking to buy Sundara. do you think ifi zen dac v1 amp is going to be an issue for the dynamics ? and if that so, do you think it is a good idea to buy jds labs atom amp and connect it with my ifi zen dac ?
I think the Zen DAC should have sufficient power, but I haven't heard one to comment on the overall sound quality. I'd start with just the Zen DAC and then add an amp later if you feel like you want more.
Hi Aditya, the Sundara need a little bit of juice. What is your usage going to be? I.e. do you want a super portable dongle DAC like say an EarMen Eagle or something a bit bigger like say a Chord Mojo or EarMen TR-Amp?
@@PassionforSound Hi Thanks for getting back. Yes I was looking for something that wouldn't just limit the headphones to desk usage and also wont sacrifice sound quality Q1) What would you suggest in portable category? I was looking into qudelix 5k to fit my purpose. Q2) What other dac-amp would you say is the best bang for buck be in portable or desktop dac's? Q3) Since Tidal actually uses mqa is it worth to get a mqa certified dac-amp? Also chord mojo and TR-amp are actually more expensive than headphones in my marketplace is it worth to invest that much in dac-amps?
I don't know the Qudelix to comment on it, but most of the compact dongle DACs are pretty good. The best I've heard so far (that's still quite affordable) is the EarMen Eagle. I also have the NextDrive Spectra X here at the moment and it's sounding good too, but I've not done any comparisons yet. As for MQA, I do think if you're using Tidal that MQA is the better way to go because it's been getting harder to find non-MQA content on Tidal. I don't think MQA is better than regular lossless FLAC, but if the files you're getting are MQA encoded then I do think it's worth having something that can make the most of them. As for the Mojo and TR-Amp, they are both fairly bulky, but also both noticeably better than dongle devices because the Mojo and TR-Amp have their own battery power rather than drawing from the USB socket.
I think it would, but the best best is always to check the output power available at the impedance of the headphones. So long as you've got decent power output you'll be fine. I can't remember what the Sundaras need for normal listening, but it will be less than 10mW.
I always buy my upgrade cables from Aurealis Audio here in Australia, but for the Sundara I've been using the Meze Audio upgrade cable for the 99 series headphones. It's a balanced, sliver-plated cable and it's a bit shorter so it might work well for you if using it with a portable device like the M11 Pro. Here's a link to it: amzn.to/3aW4m5Q
I heard several other reviewers mention the Sundara has a recessed mid range, but is it? cause I love mids and that's what's holding me back from buying these.
I don't really find it to have particularly recessed mids. I'd have to go back and listen again, but it's likely more that there isn't as much upper-mid energy as is becoming common in a lot of tunings.
@@nicktan4530 yeah. I use a magni 3+ / modi stack and it sounds super good. Compared to the tygr 300r, the hd560s are really clear sounding. I’m sure it’s because the tygr are significantly bass heavier so it distracts from all of the other nuances of a song. The midrange on the hd560s is so good.
Are the vocals pushed forward from the instruments compared to a Sony wh1000xm 3 ? I possess a wh1000xm 3 as my main listening device and unfortunately the wh1000xm 3 has recest vocals and kind of blended ( even when i eq to lessen the lows and push up the mids /i mean it help a little with clarity but not enough for the vocals though... it particularly shows up when I listen to dark souls soundtrack or the legend of spyro trilogy on ps2
Hi Cardo, I sold my 1000XM3 so I can't provide a direct comparison, but the linear frequency response from the Sundara means that vocals and other midrange get the right amount of attention in the mix. I think you'd find them noticeably better than the 1000XM3
The AudioQuest DragonFly Cobalt might be a good option if you've got the budget. Other than that, there's nothing I can think of that will bring the vocals forward as such. Perhaps some gentle EQing is what you need.
Sundara will be second planar after Deva Pro. Since I have USB-C audio adapter (CX31993 based) which works well with planar, I am more confident with Sundara. However, I have to wait until November for obvious reason
For some reason the Sundaras felt very heavy upon my head, creating a hotspot. So they had to be returned, otherwise they sounded excellent. Sad to see them go.. Do you recommend somethingthat is good all around with a nice soundstage/imaging around 300-500$??
Hi Walrus, that's a shame about the Sundaras. I have the Devas here for review at the moment and they're VERY similar in sound, but have a different headband and a lighter design. I think they'd be a good choice given you liked the Sundara sound. Other than that, I'm not sure what I'd recommend - perhaps some beyerdynamic Amirons or HD660S (I haven't heard the 660 so that's just going on what I've read)
I'd certainly be interested in your take on the Verum 1s. I have two planars, the Verum's and a pair of Oppo PM2s and the difference in sound is dramatic. The Verum is an incredibly open sounding phone with a massive soundstage but is very amplifier dependant. The Oppo a much more intimate, warm sound and forgiving in terms of amps. Neither subjectively better than the other, just wildly different. But of course the original list price of the Oppo was over twice that of the Verums. Unfortunately the chap who runs Verum is more than a bit abrasive at times and has not distinguished himself with some of the things he has said on social media but I have to say, for an essentially one man operation, he has done an extraordinary job.
That's a shame to hear about the Verum guy. I try to avoid supporting or promoting businesses that aren't good to deal with in favour of all the excellent brands out there (in terms of ethics and customer service). That's not to say I'm the brand police, but I think we all need to vote with our time and money to tell companies what is/isn't acceptable.
What amp and dac did you paired with sundara? and what amp and dac do you recommend to reach sundara's full potential... can any amp-dac pairing improve layering of sundara, if so please suggest one. i have currently shortlisted: xDuoo XD-05, Chord Mojo (used), topping dx3-pro. PS: Schiit product ain't available at my location
@@PassionforSound Do chime your impression of mojo pairing in comparison to xduoo. I am not much into buying used stuff... but if mojo is worth considering (by improved layering, details, or richer mids, etc.) i can buy mojo over xduoo.
I can't check it versus the xDuoo because I don't have it here. Was just talking about making sure it can drive the Sundaras effectively (which it should). I'm comfortable that the Mojo will be the better DAC compared to the xDuoo
I don't, but I'm hoping to review some Earmen gear very soon... As for the Mojo, it pairs very well with the Sundara. I had to turn it up quite a bit, but the sound was full and rich.
Hi Sean, the price I provided was either accurate to local stores at the time or was a direct conversion of the USD cost if you buy directly from HiFiMan
Is this unit you've reviewed pre- or post 2020 revision? I've auditioned the post-revision model on a Chord Hugo 2 and I found that the upper-mids / treble had a rather dry/gritty texture to it, and sounded rather unpleasantly harsh at times with brighter string instruments, saxophones etc. I've heard from others that the pre-revision model didn't suffer so much from this issue, but recognized that gritty harshness in the post-revision model as well.
Interesting! I'm pretty sure this is a pre-revision version because I bought it secondhand and I think they'd owned it a while. HifiMan seem pretty firm that they made no driver changes though so that's weird...
I think it's all noise. HifiMan are pretty open about their revisions and they've directly denied any revision (other than a change of glue in the pads). People will hear things if you tell them they're there to hear so I think it's a case of auditory bias when people hear differences.
@@PassionforSound not true. They changed pad structure, which changes sound. See oratory1990 measurements: www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/jkueoj/hifiman_sundara_2020_revision_eq/
How has the durability been for you now that it’s been 3 years? I just got some for $200 secondhand from a local audio store. They have a good return policy but I really enjoy them and obviously don’t want to have them returned. I know Hifiman has questionable QC.
HiFiMan's QC is actually fine. Their build quality isn't always the best, but reliability is far better than some would have you believe. I think that's a holdover perception from the early days of HiFiMan. I sold my Sundaras a while back so I can't comment specifically on those, but I've owned every HiFiMan model in recent history (and still own many of them) and have had just one single failure in all of that time which is an excellent strike rate for any brand.
@@PassionforSound thanks so much for the response! Helps me with peace of mind! These are my first “big headphone” purchase outside of the low budget audiophile range.
I'd look at the Asgard 3 from Schiit. Alternatively, you could consider going with tubes with an xDuoo MT-602 or MT-604. At higher levels, the Singxer SA-1 is a great match too
Thanks from India. I have shanling ua2 DAC/AMP which says that it can deliver 195 mW power @ 32 ohms with 2.5 Volts through a 2.5mm balanced output. Can my DAC drive the Sundara?can i get enough volume ?
Hi Jose, I'd have to go back and check the specs, but that looks to me like it should work fine for normal listening levels. It might come down to the current available (which may/may not be published), but I think it should be fine.
I love my Sundara!! Simply one of the best in my collection so far, it sounds so smooth, so lively!!
Loved your review, you explain in detail with simple words!! Keep up the good work!!
Thank you. Enjoy your Sundaras!
Just pulled the trigger on these after your excellent review gave me the confidence it was going to tick the boxes for me. Keep up the amazing work!
Great news, Josh. Glad I could help. I hope you love them!
Outstanding review as always! I've had my Sundara's for 6 months and love them. They are my first "audiophile" head phones and blow my old Sony's away. I'm bare bones/low budget running them from my iPhone into an iFi nano iDSD Black Label DAC into a Schiit Magi Heresy and they sound incredible. Thank you for the advice on upgrading the cable. I agree with your review/opinion and highly recommend the Sundara's. Keep up the great work.
Thanks Mayor. Nothing wrong with that setup at all. Glad you're loving you Sundaras
Interesting , I own the black label myself , should look into the heresy too then
I'd recommend considering the standard Schiit Magni rather than the Heresy version as it's probably even better.
@@PassionforSound Thanks for the tip! Been looking everywhere, but schiit has 0 stock in Europe :(
Just watched a bunch of your reviews and I think content and delivery are spot on. I like the way in which you describe what you are hearing....a nice middle ground between the 'science vs passion' extremes that I've come across recently. I've had my Sundara's for a few weeks now and really like them.....they sounded intriguing when I first put them on and really to my liking after some mild EQ tweaks. Right now they're getting more head-time than my HD650's or Focal Elear's. For anyone interested, mine are almost certainly the latest revision...if indeed that makes any difference in respect to how they sound.
Glad you like the reviews, David! The Sundaras really are excellent so I understand them stealing airtime
I loved my Sundara and only sold them due to downsizing. Once I had sold my heresy there was little point in keeping them. To me they just didn’t shine from a more compact portable solution. But from a nice amp and dac I found them to be fantastic.
I found the build really odd on them. Simultaneously feeling like a tank and cheap at the same time. I feel like a better slider on the headband and some real leather (and a cable that isn’t terrible) and they would be an amazing set. They have the sound already.
Totally agree on all counts. They're amazing sounding for the price, but those few details show their limitations in cost/value to build quality.
Thanks for a very well thought out review. I recently brought the sundaras to go with my ifi zen can they sound fantastic together. Can't recommend them highly enough
So glad you're enjoying the headphones and that you liked the review
Thank you for a wonderful review. I completely agree that the Sundara is wonderful. As for handling I don’t have the same experience as you, I find it quite OK to handle. I use the Sundara with my iPad Pro and an Apple USB-C DAC dongle which works OK but lacks a bit of power (I keep it at about 80% volume). With my iPhone XS I am at 90% volume with the Lightning DAC adapter. Still the sound is so much more comfortable than what I get with my DT-770s. I am considering getting the EarMen Tr-amp because I like to keep things portable. Keep up your good work!
Hi Tormod, glad you're enjoying the Sundaras and thanks for sharing your setup - it might help others with similar devices to know what to expect.
The TR-Amp would be a great match and a nice upgrade in power and sound quality I expect.
Sundara and hd 650 are the perfect complimentary cans. Best duo for covering and entire spectrum of music and still not breaking your bank.
Never thought of it this way -- two sets of cans for specific music types and needs
It can work really well if you choose the right cans
@@PassionforSound I just bought the Sundaras here in Sydney as a start into hifi world (with a Zen DAC) and really appreciated your comprehensive review. They are brilliant. These are a jump up from the Sony XM4s -- which sound surprisingly good wired btw -- on the Zen DAC listening to lossless.
So glad you're liking them!
@Scott D This is the way I would love to approach audio. A few different sets of speakers and a few different sets of headphones. Cover all types of music and use cases. Alas, I don't have the space or money for that. Possibly one day.
Hi;, loved the review, thanks . I JUST ordered a pr. Of Sundaras they’ll be delivered tomorrow. After watching your take and comparisons I’m vey excited. I already own the Focal Clear, Sen. 6xx and a pair of Grados. Again thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. Stay Safe, Tom
Btw, this is my first pair of “Planer’ headphones, hope i made a wise choice , lol
It's a great place to start with planars, Tom. Hope you love them!
I have a Grado SR80x and I am looking for my next pair. I have these shortlisted HiFiMan Sundara, Edition XS, Audeze MM-100 and the HD600. What should I go with? I usually listen to Classical music and some Coke Studio
What do you want more of/less of compared to the Grados?
@@PassionforSound Frankly, I wouldn't know. Haven't heard anything else except my own Headphones. Grado and Sennheiser HD450. I want something more musical, dynamic, with better vocals
Hi, I have had He4xx since 2018 and just Ordered the Sundaras based on your review. Thank you.
You're very welcome. You'll love the upgrade I think. If you remember, drop back in here and tell me how you're enjoying them.
I did this same upgrade recently. The only thing the 4xx does better, or at least more of, is shaky, thumping sub bass. But stage, clarity, this fragile beauty, clear highs and mids that aren't harsh are all clearly better on the sundara. Also, I find the 4xx slightly more comfy and more comfy to handle, just like pointed out in the video, sundara is kinda hard angles in the hand. Couldn't agree more though, once on head, they are great. Also, both eq exceptionally well. So quite easy to up the sub bass a lil. On that note, with both cans eqd based on their measurement to the Harman curve, the sun's still sounded clearer, more open stage and more resolution.
@@mattgrover3096 4 Months on, still loving them. Had same feeling with the bass Until I installed Peace EQ and used the Harmon presets from Oratory1990. Tamed the treble a smidge and warmed up the bass. Fantastic.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Matt and santaclart. Glad you're both enjoying the Sundaras!
Another great review. For a fairly neutral tuning seems like the HD560s is the benchmark at $200usd and the Sundara is the next step up at $350usd. HD560s have a bit more bass but Sundara's do resolve more.
Granted I'm rocking the Focal Clear's but when most of my friends ask what to get they're looking at lower price points, which is fair I'm just happy people exploring options besides ANC headphones (those have their place too but I have some friends that thought that was the "best" out there".)
I really need to check out the 560S
@@PassionforSound I’m sure some people or genres will still prefer the mid focused HD6XX, plus the HD6XX scales better with higher end gear. But the bass and treble extension in the HD560s is going fit a lot of modern genres.
Great review! I can't tell if you have the version with the updated pads or not from the video. I spent way too much time trying to find the best all around headphone sub-$500 and the Sundara came out on top by a long shot. It's really an incredible value.
I highly recommend adding a bit of EQ to bring the bass and sub bass up a bit. The Sundara's driver is incredibly capable and handles EQ very well without distortion. Also, Oratory1990 just released the settings to bring it to the Harman target for the updated version. I use a modified version of this, but with EQ, these headphones really are incredible.
Hi Jason, I'm not sure, but I think it's the original version. That's interesting to hear about the EQing options. I don't generally bother with EQ and like to enjoy headphones for their tuned sound, but that's just my personal preference.
@@PassionforSound Ah yea, It's nice to have the flexibility though, given a headphone design will always have tradeoffs and no frequency response is perfect for anyone, I love that I can make slight adjustments and get a lot more out of a headphone.
With the Sundara, this is especially true as the driver is extremely capable. The Bass with a bit of EQ boost goes from good to "Wow".
Even if you don't keep it, I def recommend testing them with a bit of a bass boost, a 3-5 db low shelf filter at 105 hz is just about perfect.
I'll give it a try - thanks!
Are the EQ profile on the harman over ear 2018 folder?
@@jasonfranciosa hello thanks for sharing, completely agree that sundara is amazing especially with eq a little boost on low end. Do you use only low shelf filter from 105 hz or something else? This as i understand comes from oratory 1990 eq. Thanks.
I have both the sundara and the Clears. I agree. The Sundara shines in rich orchestral pieces while the Clears punch hard in few tracks. Both are tremendous for the price and what they deliver
Glad to see I'm not the only one hearing things as I do. Thanks for sharing!
I can drive these cans with a damn smartphone. I've no problem with the industrial design of these cans and I haven't even bought them yet but I'm going to. Hell yes. I have a perfect spot on my headphone display right beside my Sennheiser HD 600s. Thanks for the brilliant critique lad.
Glad you've made your decision and a good one at that. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Super review!!! Late to the party, just picked up a pair and will sell off the HE 400SE's.Thanks a lot your efforts. I really love your way of reviewing and have bought some of your recommendations accordingly.. 👍😎👍
Great choice and glad I could help 🙂🙂
Now that was an excellent review from someone who clearly knows hi-Fi, and has a strong technical background. I own HD600 and HD650 and am wanting to buy a planar magnetic headphones to add to my collection, and I’m considering the Sundara and the Audeze LCD-X 2021 edition. I’m sure the Audeze headphones will out perform the Sundara, but they should at more than 3x the price. The issue I have with the LCD-X is their 620gm weight. I do like the HD800S, but they have flaws (rolled off bass and peaks in the treble) and aren’t really worth their price, I feel. Ian not a fan of Focal headphones.the one thing that concerns me about HiFiman headphones is their reputation for poor quality control and questionable reliability, although that has improved in the last couple of years a dealer told me.
HiFiMan have definitely improved things in recent years. I know own almost every headphone they make and have had zero issues with any of them 🙂
Glad you liked the review!
Thanks for an other excellent review and video production! I have an Earmax Pro amp that has been sitting in a box for 14 years. I am finally realizing that I should bring it out and use it since I spend 95% of my time in front of my lap top. With a good DAC these should be great!
Hope you love the setup you land on
Thank you for your detailed but yet easy to understand review. I appreciate you actually getting into specifics about powering these headphones. I probably watched 10 other reviews on the same model and everyone simply says you need a bit of power to run them but never actually give us numbers. I have my liquid spark amp on the way so hopefully that handles the situation just fine.
Hi Jay, no problems - glad I can help! The Liquid Spark should do fine with these I think. They're not crazy difficult headphones unless you're looking to crank up huge amounts of EQ or play them at dangerous listening levels
@@PassionforSound thank you for your reply.
My pleasure 🙂
@@PassionforSound I think you mentioned in your video if I want to upgrade the cable there was something else that worked better. Also,, I’m new at this so please forgive my ignorance. I purchased a generic cable to go from my dragonfly dac to the liquid spark amp. Do you think there would be something better than just a simple generic 3.5mm to RCA connector? Thank you for your expertise. I greatly appreciate it.
Hi Jay, a basic cable from a company like AudioQuest or a similar quality cable manufacturer will generally be a worthwhile upgrade on the most basic cables out there. Nothing too expensive - just $30 or so is all you probably need to spend (i.e. don't feel the need to invest a fortune into this cable as it would be false economy to spend too much)
good review and well explained. Irrespective of price you compared them with the much higher priced headphones in terms of soundquality. Not many reviewers do tht. Hopefully i would like mine. thanks PaS
Hi Rishabh, glad you liked the review. They're great headphones!
Thanks for the review. I’m not into measurements, as to me, in general, all that matters is how they sound, but there was a bit of a hole created when Tyll quit Innerfidelity. I suspect if you can do measurements as credibly as he did, it will help your channel and broaden your appeal. All just IMO, of course. Thanks for doing what you do. I enjoy watching.
Thanks Jim. I need to be a little careful because I'm not using a pro test rig, but I'll start to share some measurements and discussion of them from now on.
I enjoy your reviews as much for getting music recommendations as the gear :) Can't believe I hadn't heard of that Beastie Boys album before - thanks for turning me on to it!
You're welcome! That album is a ripper!
Really nice informative video. Like the way you speak calmly. Thumbs up
So glad you liked it! Thanks for watching 🙂
Great review mate. Up there as one of the best I reckon
Cheers, Richard!
I watched a movie with these for the first time. Yes the music is awesome on these but for some reason i didnt expect movies to be as good as they were. That was a pleasant experience.
Nice! I don't often watch movies with headphones. That could be a whole spin-off channel...
Hi Lachlan. Bit late for the review but I purchased the Sundara’s a couple of months ago and been running them with the Heretic. Just purchased a new but boxed never opened Lyr 2 and I am hopeful that the extra power will really drive the Sundara’s to greater heights.
Nice combo, James. Hope you love them! The Heretic has plenty of power as it is, but the increased quality of the Lyr 2 should be a nice upgrade.
@@PassionforSound thank you for the reply! Already thinking ahead to tube rolling with the Lyr 2! Another audio rabbit hole I’ve fallen in! This hobby is going to be the financial death of me!
Yep, it'll do that! :)
For most Hifiman stuff from HE400s to Sundara you definitely need to be prepared to buy aftermarket cable and also aftermarket ear pads. I used to have HE-400S quite a long time ago, the sound quality improved a lot with dekoni leather pads. HE-400S is the modern day HE-400SE and I think back then it retailed around 299-349 dollars.
I agree on the cable topic. They're trying to get better, but still have a way to go. There are some excellent, affordable cables available now though and it's great that all HiFiMan models use the same 3.5mm connectors now.
Great review and I really like sections with the comparison and quicklinks against other high end headphones such as the Focal Clears, Empyreans etc. It goes to show what amazing value the Sundara offer. Would you recommend the Focal Clear (used at about 850€) over the Hifiman Sundara (350€ New) and why? Thank you and keep the great reviews coming!
Thanks Abdullah! (Hope I got your name right) The Clears are better in many ways, but they're also different in that they are a little bit u-shaped compared to the quite linear Sundaras. They have better detail retrieval and speed, but they're not as smooth sounding so it depends on what you're after. Sorry I can't give you a more definitive answer!
Very good review again. I totally agree. I own a pair of Sundaras and I am very happy with the purchase besides I got them when they had a 50 € discount. I use them with my computer or while doing something at home fed by Fiio Btr5 or Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt (way better with the Dragonfly but they tend to disconnect when moving and I have to disable and enable OTG again for Neutron to connect again). I wanted an IEM with good value for the money and got the Moondrop Blessing 2. They sound very good, being an IEM you can notice some soundstage, but they are too bright for me. If you find a Sundara like IEM it would definitely be a review worth my while.
I might have one coming up, Juan. They're not quite as good as the Sundara overall, but they should be a closer fit than the Moondrops
@@PassionforSound Looking forward to it.
Another well done review. I owned the Sundara for a short period of time. There were two flaws that prevented me from enjoying them; high frequency harshness and a congested presentation. I wouldn't say they are bad but not headphones which I would recommend. They seem universally well liked, especially for their price.
Hi can, having seen a range of comments, it seems that this might be a revision issue and it sounds like the model I have might be a newer revision version which would explain why my experience might be different to yours.
Hi, great review, very well explained.
I was wondering if you ever tested the Ultrasone 2900 Pro, and if so how does it compare according to you to the Sundara. The Ultrasone have a V shaped signature, but also a great soundstage.
Soundstage is one of the things that really matters for me. But I like some bass even on classic music as it gives a warmer sound, and more impact. Thus I wonder if both headphones are similar or complementar.
Thanks in advance!
Glad you liked the review, Raoul. I've never tried the 2900 Pro. I used to own some Ultrasone HFI 680s and later some Edition 8s (I think) so I know and like the Ultrasone sound, but can't compare the Sundara and 2900s for you. Sorry!
Another great review! Keep up the great work!
Thanks Sasha!
Great review as always. Very detailed and informative. Do you have an opinion on the Drop+HiFiMan HE5XX? Are these any closer to the Sandara than the HE4XX? Thanks for your assistance.
I haven't tried the HE-5XX. Sorry!
Thx for the review. Nice to see as I recently purchased these. I am waiting on the cable upgrade that i am getting. Then it will be dac/amp choice once the $$ can be saved. Cheers
Nice! Enjoy your new cans (and cable)
At 17:03 when you say "in terms of sound quality", did you mean build quality?
Great review
I'm, yes... I think. That was a weird bit of wording on my part. I don't use a script so I sometimes say things that are a touch unclear. Normally I catch them on the fly and redo, but I missed this one 😳
@@PassionforSound No problem. I guess you can insert a comment.
I can't edit the video anymore so I'll just have to hope people figure it out.
An awesome review. I usually can’t sit through reviews more than 15 minutes but yours went by super quick which shows how much I enjoyed it! Detailed, well presented, well-edited and also very substantial arguments brought up. Great song recommendations too - love that Beastie Boys album!
I know this is quite a late comment from the day this video was posted but I just had to commend you on the quality and hard work. I don’t even usually comment either! Want to show my support to the audiophile community and reviewers like you that ease the mind of us (sometimes clueless) consumers. Subbed!
Thanks so much, mcna! Glad you liked it. I'm always trying to improve my video quality so hopefully it will get better still in 2021.
my pair of sundaras arrived just the other day (my first ever "audiophile" headphone) and honestly im too excited to put them on to even notice how they feel in the hand.
Imo these kinda things are good ways to cut costs when making these kinda products. They aint there for me to show off, they there purely for my enjoyment of listening to them.
Congratulations on the new cans! You're exactly right about the build irrelevant once they're on your head and playing music
Your reviews always full of details, make you feel that I have them in my hands. Very interesting features for the price, my HIfiman HE400i also has hard edges, perhaps characteristic of Hifiman mid-range. But his sound is very good.
Yeah, they tune their headphones very well in most cases. Glad you find the detail helpful!
New Fan here. Such a comforting review!
Welcome! Glad you liked it! 🙂
this is the best sundara review i have heard! good job!
Thank you! Glad you liked it!
Love the reviews. I enjoy checking out the music you use as I find new clean music to enjoy.
Would these headphones be a good direction to go if I'm happy with the overall presentation of my old HD600? I'm not ready to upgrade just yet, but I find these interesting.
Hi Kevin, glad you like the tracks! These would be a great next step from the 600s without stepping up in price range
@@PassionforSound Thank you. My HD600 are 18 years old and I suspect things have changed.
Love the videos and it's great seeing you post in the comments. Your efforts are appreciated.
Thanks Kevin. Wow! 18 years old. That's impressive.
Another terrific review! Happen to know if these headphones are hifimans latest 2020 editions? I have heard that this newer revision sounds better than previous ones. I'm curious how one can tell what revision they are getting. I guess they have done silent revisions on headphones over the years. Curious to hear what you think of other hifimans such as the ananda and ayria. Thank you!
Thanks Brandon. Some other commenters seem to think they are the latest revision, but I can't be certain. If these aren't the latest then the new ones sound even better which would be brilliant.
I'm hoping to review a few more HifiMan headphones in the future so stay tuned 😉
Thank you SO much for this review, I especially found the explanation of the power requirements useful!
Have I got this right:
The FiiO M9 delivers 220mW（32Ω /THD+N＜1%，2.5 balanced power - so not powerful enough??
The FiiO M11 delivers 550mW（4.2V）（32Ω /THD+N＜1%）2.5 balanced power - so is powerful enough??
Man I find this confusing!
You've got it, but that's for LOUD levels or if you're boosting frequencies with an EQ. I've just tried the Sundara on the Shanling Q1 which outputs 80mW and it manages ok despite being close to max volume (about 80% for my comfortable listening level) so I'd expect the M9 would still be ok if you aren't looking for super loud levels or lots of EQ boost.
Hi Lachlan. Thanks for another great review. I’m seriously considering buying these. But I was interested in your comments re a lack of separation when listening to the Elgar cello concerto. I listen to a lot of classical music including orchestral symphonies etc and separation is important. Would the lack of this be a big enough negative not to buy these Sundara please? Thanks again
Hi Ian, if you're a big classical listener, I think the Sundara is ok, but I also think you can do better with options like the Verum 1, Ananda (if you can stretch your budget), or the Sivga SV023 (review coming soon).
@@PassionforSound thanks Lachlan. Yes I mostly listen to classical music now. So ideally want something with excellent detail, soundstage, separation and imaging. Thanks
I think the cans I listed could all fit that bill. Good luck in your search!
@@PassionforSound thanks Lachlan. Be interesting to hear your thoughts on the Sivga.
I hung my cable above a radiator with something with a bit of weight to it on the other end. It took the coil out pretty good.
Good idea!
Physics to the rescue of o coiled headphone cord - MacGyver would approve !
Thanks for your great work. Is SMSL M500 MKIII DAC/AMP correct for HiFiMan Sundaras ???
It will do great with the Sundaras 🙂
Hi,
Just wondering what the schiit products on your desk are and whether they are your go to schitt stack or just ones up for review. Im thinking of purchasing some schiit equipment & just wondering if you could recommend the best schiit Dac amp combo if price wasn’t an issue except Yggdrasil of course. Great reviews by the way. Thanks and keep them coming.
Hi Nick, glad you like the reviews. The pile of Schiit on my desk is a Bifrost 2 and Asgard 3. I'd recommend both for what they are, but my go-to setup involving these products is actually the Bifrost 2 feeding the Topping A90. I'm yet to find my perfect Schiit amp because I haven't tried tooany of them.
The Burson Soloist 3XP will be replacing the A90 soon too
I'm planning to get the Sundaras and pair them with a Topping E30/L30 stack. Do you think that would be a good fit? Also considering the D50s/A50s/P50? stack but judging from your reviews it seems like not too good value compared to the E30/L30. I only really like the bluetooth making it semi-portable and the balanced output but idk if that really makes a difference so might not be worth it.
I'm taking the next step from my ultra budget Fiio E10 (OG from 2011) and Superlux HD681 Evos.
Hi Hunter, I still think the E30/L30 stack is one of the best deals around so I'd definitely recommend that. The D/A/P50 stack is overpriced for the performance I think. Just run the E30 off a phone charger rather than USB from a computer and you'll be set.
@@PassionforSound Thanks for the reply. I just found your channel and loving every bit of it! Instantly subscribed. I think I'll follow your advice and get the 30 stack since I was already finding the 50 stack to be out of my budget anyway (considering they cost more than the Sundaras). I'll live without the bluetooth then. Keep up the good work! 😊
I think you'll be very happy with the choice. Thanks for subscribing! So glad you like the channel
I don't know what it is with this channel, but you always upload a video on something I'm going nuts over to buy or not. I've got my little schiit stack now, and it's time to go from my HE-400i to the SUNDARAS.
Would you ever consider reviewing the holy trinity of cheap audiophile?? The KSC75, Kph30is and porta pros from koss. I just got my second pair of ksc75s and I was worried that they wouldn't be up to snuff compared to the HE-400I and Takstar pro82, monoprice retros and MH751 that I've been using since my original pair broke, but I was worried for nothing, in terms of sound signature they're still my favorite (almost perfect for me), such good headphones.
Anyways, love the channel! Keep it up man!!
Thanks Andy, glad I'm on your purchasing schedule 😉
I've actually got the PortaPros here now for review soon and I've owned the KSC75 for years now. Both are excellent (even if they look a little funny). I'll see if I can slip the KSC75 into the review for you.
@@PassionforSound Awesome! They're not the most detailed, they just sound great, "Ugly," but great xD
Totally agree
Mine came in today in just a plain box similar to what Drop uses sometimes for their headphones mostly brown with a little strip that indicated it was Hifiman Sundara and no booklet and a QR scan box with warranty and a serial and if you follow them on Facebook an extra 6 months warranty no booklet though. I can't figure out which version I got. I bought mine from Newegg.
I'm not much help there because I've not seen multiple versions myself
Nicely done. Luv my Sundara's
As I'm trying to tweak (eq) on my Sundara's via my iMac the internal eq is not system wide or PEQ and most important doesn't play via streaming services :( Have you tried the new Sonarworks reference Id ? They are using what I think is the old version Sundara reference graph. Any suggestion for a mac friendly PEQ ?
Thanks in advance.
Hi Bruce, I actually recently reviewed SoundID here on the channel, but I don't think I tried it with the Sundaras. That said, I haven't tried this, but can you apply as EQ using SoundID without first applying a calibration curve?
Other than that, I'm afraid I'm no help because I'm not a Mac user.
Awesome Review my friend, I have watched almost all the reviews and I recently bought the Sundara headphones after seeing the review. Thank you so much for the great review. I am looking out to enhance the sound experience by upgrading my Magni headphone AMP to another one which will best suit these headphones, any suggestions??. I have Topping D90 DAC with Node as the Streaming Source.
Excellent video. I'm grabbing them this week. What upgraded cables you was using?
Hi EF, glad you liked it. I think you'll be very happy with your choice. I've been using the Meze Audio balanced upgrade cable for the 99 series headphones (amzn.to/3aW4m5Q) but do keep in mind that it's a shorter cable so it depends on your setup whether that's helpful or not
@@PassionforSound No. 8 feet is fine. Thanks for the heads up.
You're welcome!
Hi Man
Great review as usual
I need your recommendation PLZ!
I am planning to use the Sundaras for Mastering/Mixing at home studio. Using Apollo twin X, Do I need an amp? What is the best set up for apollo/headphone amp?
I am choosing Magni 3+, what do u think?!!
Thank you in advance
Hi Andrew, adding a Magni 3+ is probably a good idea for the Sundaras. Audio interfaces are rarely good as drivers of headphones so I think the Magni will really help.
@@PassionforSound Thank U for the prompt answer :)
My pleasure
great review once again ,you have done a dynamic and a planar how about a electrostatic to complete the trio ?
Yeah, I need to get some electrotats in my life. I do have a stat IEM on the way...
@@PassionforSound kse1200?
No, it's a hybrid with DD, BA and E-stat. Not sure if it's truly E-stat because it doesn't need an energizer.
Hello, when you wrote your written review of the Ifi Zen Can signature Hifiman using the Sundara did you use the stock Hifiman Sundara cable or a custom cable or a balanced one? I have both the Sundara and Edition xs and also the Ifi Zen Can signature Hifiman and I'm playing with the idea of upgrading the cable to a balanced one. Will it be worth it? What improvements will I get if any? I appreciate any feedback from you.
Thanks.
I think you've got me mixed up with someone. I've never tried the Zen Can.
@@PassionforSound oh, I'm sorry 😔
That's ok 🙂
Thanks mate- awesome sauce!
Glad you liked it
Waiting for these to be delivered to me right now. Bought an HE400i 2020 just a month ago and straight away decided that i want more. Hope my AE-5 sound card will handle them fine. :)
Ooh, you might be stretching the soundcard - it'll be interesting to see. I think you'll live the sound though. Noticeably warmer, but better in so many ways I think
@@PassionforSound yeah, it may be a little too much for the little thing. But we'll see. I will probably get an external solution later this year, but i think an AE-5 will handle it fine.
Definitely worth trying it first. There are some nice affordable options like the Topping L30 if you need more power.
@@PassionforSound hello. I've got the Sundaras. They sound very good from an AE-5, and i like the sound signature. Somewhat brighter than an HE400i 2020, like a breath of cold, fresh air. But i'm sure they can do better with a proper amp.
Glad to hear they work. If they sound brighter than the HE400 then I dare say it's lacking sufficient power for them as the Sundara should be noticeably warmer than the HE400i, but if you're happy with the sound then that's all that matters! 🙂
You are one of the best
Thank you. I'm.glad you like the videos
is there a portable DAC/Amp combo that you would recommend for these? currently have the small Fiio Q1 MkII. seems like it would work okay, but wouldn't mind something a little more powerful?
It depends on your budget. How much are you planning to spend?
@@PassionforSound preferably a couple hundred? But willing to go a little more if it’s needed or will future proof future buys a little bit.
The Hidisz XO is probably a good option: ruclips.net/video/WD3sM4QQCxg/видео.htmlsi=gCrsgqWY6DEJMVUs
@@PassionforSound i will check it out! thanks for the response
Would you recommend these over the DT 900 Pro X or HD600 for sound mixing?
Would you recommend them for mixing in general?
I don't think I'd choose the Sundaras for mixing. Both the HD600 and DT 900 Pro X would be preferable for me, but any headphone you choose will have compromises to account for when mixing.
I’m ready to stick my feet into a whole new realm, would you recommend these to be my 1st hi end headphones, love your videos
Hi Hungry, glad you like the channel! I would whole-heartedly recommend these as a great first step. What DAC and amp will you be using?
@@PassionforSound I got the iFi Audio Zen DAC only, with only usb as powersource. Would you recommend something else as DAC/AMP?
That will work ok. I would probably start with the HifiMan Sundara. They're brilliant and very versatile. If the iFi can take external power I'd also recommend trying it with a separate power supply like a phone charger or battery pack
Current owner of Ollo S4x, how would you compare this with them? I am looking for a companion pair for Ollo as I like to use multiple phones to mix.
The Sundara are a very different headphone and a good musical enjoyment headphone. They could work for a secondary mixing option, for sure. They're not as accurate as the S4X (tonally, I mean), but not too far off.
Well done again. You just talked me into a Bifrost 2 to add to my A90 😄. I was looking at the Sundara or HD600 for a gift for someone that listens to classical and jazz. Do you (or anyone else reading) suggest one or the other for those styles in particular?
I'm using exactly that setup at the moment (B2 + A90) and it's great!
As for the headphone question? The Sundara would be my choice. Both will be great with jazz (600 may be slightly better), but the Sundara will be notably better for classical (IMO)
@@PassionforSound Thanks! Appreciate you taking the time to respond.
@Fisher Man Ha! To be fair, he is also helps run my business, so if you need a job also....
I’d buy the HD600. I own the HD600 and the HD650 and I find myself reaching for my 600’s more often, they have such a glorious midrange and resolving, detailed highs. Their base is merely adequate though. Vocals and instrumental works are brilliantly rendered on the HD600. I run them from a new iPad Air with a Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt headphone amp/Dac streaming Tidal Masters (MQA) as well as Apple Music Lossless/hi res music files. I upgraded the cables to Cardas Parsec 1M and that improved an already great headphone even more.
Can you compare them to the Audioquest Nighthawk Carbon?
I love the Hawks (I have the originals), but they're VERY different headphones. The Hawks are distinctly coloured compared to the Sundaras neutrality, but the Hawks do better in terms of transparency and agility compared to the slightly thicker/heavier sound (i.e. heavier note weight) from the Sundaras.
such a great review, thanks! I presume that the Plenue D2 would drive these headphones easily?
Hi Pekko, the D2 should have no troubles at all. I've got the little Shanling Q1 here at the moment and that runs them beautifully.
I just put in my order for a pair of these for fathers day! What do you recommend as a affordable dac/amp for these? I'm thinking modi 3 and magni heresy.
Nice! I'd probably go for the Modi Multibit and Magni 3+ I think. I personally didn't love the Heresy so definitely Magni 3+. I think either DAC (Modi 3 / Multibit) would do just fine.
Hello ! Thanks for the video ! About power that you explain, Do we need a amplifier for iPhone or Sony Walkman a105 ? Hard to understand… thanks !
Hi Marc, it all depends on the power output of each device so I can't say for certain, but I'd suggest that an amp would be needed for the iPhone to get the best from the Sundaras. The Walkman might be ok without an amp, but I couldn't see power output figures easily so I can't be certain
@@PassionforSound thanks a lot for this feedback ! I got a Onyx THX ampli dac. Do you think it’s good stuff ?
I haven't heard the Onyx, but I believe it's pretty powerful so it should do well
Question Lachlan, Apos do international shipping to Australia? Cause just done the conversion and if Order through them, I save $100 aussie dollars, which is a deal !
Hi Ben, I'm afraid they don't ☹️
Is it correct to assume they’ll leak way more sound than the HD600 series?
No, I'd say they're fairly similar. Both are fully open designs and the Sundara has some foam behind the driver.
@@PassionforSound Interesting, my perception of planar has greatly changed, appreciate your response.
My pleasure
Very good review
Thanks Francois!
More headphone reviews please
Hi Jesse, they're coming. It's been a bit DAC/amp heavy lately, hasn't it?
@@PassionforSound Yeah exactly, we need to increase the headphone review frequency:)
I'm doing what I can. A lot of it depends on what I can afford to buy at the time because the channel is still growing and not yet paying it's way 🙂
I'd like to know what amps and dacs headphones would be a good pair with. Could be an interesting segment in future reviews :)
I deliberately don't specify amp/DAC pairings in my reviews unless there's a very specific issue with the headphone that requires a specific type of amp/DAC (e.g. the HD800S). In most cases, there are way too many possible combinations to cover effectively without accidentally misleading people. The best option for any headphone IMO is a discrete amplifier and a DAC with a good ability to produce depth and width in the soundstage. That said, there are lots of great options and some people prefer the chip-based amps and delta sigma DACs that produce less depth in the soundstage and a flatter, wall-of-sound type of presentation.
Would you use them with a tube amp like the Valhalla 2? Or should I stick with my schiit multibit/magni3+ combo?
Hi Adrian, they can work with any amp so it really depends on the voicing of the amp. I personally wouldn't use them with a particularly thick/warm sounding amp like say a Darkvoice 336SE, but no all tube amps sound like that. I haven't heard the Valhalla 2 so I can't specifically comment, but I'd recommend checking some reviews to see if the Valhalla 2 is relatively neutral (for a tube amp which will always have a degree of colouration, but doesn't have to be overly warm and thick)
Thank you, would these pair well with the Asgard?
Hi Kennith, yes they work well with it 🙂
Hello, thank you for your channel. Which xlr 4 cable do you advice for a focal clear? :)
Hi Philippe, I've used the standard XLR cable that came with mine, but I buy all my headphone cables from Aurealis Audio
@@PassionforSound Merci
De rien!
Hey mate, do you think the Loxji D30 can make this headphone work decently ?
I am on a budget, ortherwise I might have to make a painful effort and grab a topping L30 E30 stack ;)
Hi Leonis, I still have the D30 here so let me check...
@@PassionforSound thank you ☺️
Done some testing. The D30 and Sundara work quite well, but I'd say it right on the edge of properly powering the Sundaras. You can get plenty of volume, but the sound is a touch thinner (i.e. less bass presence) than with a more powerful amp.
@@PassionforSound Ok 👌
Thanks a bunch for your help, I will take the E30 L30 stack, I have an excellent deal for the couple for 188€.
Brilliant! Glad I could help. Enjoy your new toys! 🙂
Hi, how is the combination of the sundara with the dragon fly cobalt?
It works really nicely. Not as good as a desktop setup, but dongles never are because they rely on the USB power supply from a phone or computer
Do I happen to notice an Asgard back there??
Sure do. Review coming soon. Just having a break from Schiity content for a little while so I don't drown everyone in Schiit 😉
Hi! You guys might help me here.
I bought the Sundarars and a Ifi Zen dac. I wanted to plug my headphones to the balanced output so I bought an extra 3.5mm female to 4.4mm male jack adaptater. The problem is that it got worse, so much worse... there was a buzz sound and the music got all messed up. Si I send back my adaptater thinking it had an issue... So my question is : is the Sundara stock cable balanced ? Do I just have to get a working 3.5mm to 4.4mm adaptater to use the Ifi zen dac balanced output? Thanks. Hope someone find this message
Hi Florent, you need to get the 3.5mm plug on the Sundara cable removed and replaced with a 4.4mm to use balanced. You can adapt balanced cables back to single ended (i.e. 4.4mm cable adapted to plug into 3.5mm), but not the other way around. This is because the balanced output has 4 distinct outputs and trying to make it single ended is short circuiting two of those outputs.
I own ifi zen dac that powers my 58x, and I'm looking to buy Sundara. do you think ifi zen dac v1 amp is going to be an issue for the dynamics ? and if that so, do you think it is a good idea to buy jds labs atom amp and connect it with my ifi zen dac ?
I think the Zen DAC should have sufficient power, but I haven't heard one to comment on the overall sound quality. I'd start with just the Zen DAC and then add an amp later if you feel like you want more.
Do they pair well enough with the audioquest cobalt or will I need a dedicated amplifier?
Hi David, they do ok with the Cobalt. You can get more out of them with a desktop amp, but it's a good start.
Can you recommend the best portable dac+amp for this headphone?
Hi Aditya, the Sundara need a little bit of juice. What is your usage going to be? I.e. do you want a super portable dongle DAC like say an EarMen Eagle or something a bit bigger like say a Chord Mojo or EarMen TR-Amp?
@@PassionforSound Hi Thanks for getting back.
Yes I was looking for something that wouldn't just limit the headphones to desk usage and also wont sacrifice sound quality
Q1) What would you suggest in portable category?
I was looking into qudelix 5k to fit my purpose.
Q2) What other dac-amp would you say is the best bang for buck be in portable or desktop dac's?
Q3) Since Tidal actually uses mqa is it worth to get a mqa certified dac-amp?
Also chord mojo and TR-amp are actually more expensive than headphones in my marketplace is it worth to invest that much in dac-amps?
I don't know the Qudelix to comment on it, but most of the compact dongle DACs are pretty good. The best I've heard so far (that's still quite affordable) is the EarMen Eagle. I also have the NextDrive Spectra X here at the moment and it's sounding good too, but I've not done any comparisons yet.
As for MQA, I do think if you're using Tidal that MQA is the better way to go because it's been getting harder to find non-MQA content on Tidal. I don't think MQA is better than regular lossless FLAC, but if the files you're getting are MQA encoded then I do think it's worth having something that can make the most of them.
As for the Mojo and TR-Amp, they are both fairly bulky, but also both noticeably better than dongle devices because the Mojo and TR-Amp have their own battery power rather than drawing from the USB socket.
I’m wondering if my Lotoo Paw S1 dongle DAC would do as a power source ? It has 3.5 unbalanced and 4.4 balanced inputs.
I think it would, but the best best is always to check the output power available at the impedance of the headphones. So long as you've got decent power output you'll be fine.
I can't remember what the Sundaras need for normal listening, but it will be less than 10mW.
I listen my Sundara with a FiiO M11 PRO. Do you have a couple of suggestions for me if i want upgrade the original cable of the Sundara?
I always buy my upgrade cables from Aurealis Audio here in Australia, but for the Sundara I've been using the Meze Audio upgrade cable for the 99 series headphones. It's a balanced, sliver-plated cable and it's a bit shorter so it might work well for you if using it with a portable device like the M11 Pro. Here's a link to it: amzn.to/3aW4m5Q
I heard several other reviewers mention the Sundara has a recessed mid range, but is it? cause I love mids and that's what's holding me back from buying these.
I don't really find it to have particularly recessed mids. I'd have to go back and listen again, but it's likely more that there isn't as much upper-mid energy as is becoming common in a lot of tunings.
@@PassionforSound Thanks! I found a store near me that I can try these out so I'll give it a go!
That's great - always the best approach. I hope you like them!
Would like to hear your thoughts on the Sennheiser hd560. For just shy of £200, I think they're astonishing
Hi Steven, they're on my list to try (and review) as soon as I can get a pair.
I second this. I also think they are amazing
Have you tested on spotify ?
@@nicktan4530 yeah. I use a magni 3+ / modi stack and it sounds super good. Compared to the tygr 300r, the hd560s are really clear sounding. I’m sure it’s because the tygr are significantly bass heavier so it distracts from all of the other nuances of a song. The midrange on the hd560s is so good.
@@jakew2037 you use spotify and RUclips with it ?
I know you mention 6xx in this video, but wondering if you have ever compared the Sundara to the HD 650 in detail?
As I understand it, the 6XX and 650 are actually identical so that's the best I can offer because it's soooo long since I owned the 650s
@@PassionforSound thanks for your comment.
Are the vocals pushed forward from the instruments compared to a Sony wh1000xm 3 ?
I possess a wh1000xm 3 as my main listening device and unfortunately the wh1000xm 3 has recest vocals and kind of blended ( even when i eq to lessen the lows and push up the mids /i mean it help a little with clarity but not enough for the vocals though... it particularly shows up when I listen to dark souls soundtrack or the legend of spyro trilogy on ps2
Hi Cardo, I sold my 1000XM3 so I can't provide a direct comparison, but the linear frequency response from the Sundara means that vocals and other midrange get the right amount of attention in the mix. I think you'd find them noticeably better than the 1000XM3
@@PassionforSound thanks😉
No problems 🙂
@@PassionforSound in risk of bothering you again 😅
Do you know a portable amp/dac that strengthen the vocals? For smartphone
The AudioQuest DragonFly Cobalt might be a good option if you've got the budget. Other than that, there's nothing I can think of that will bring the vocals forward as such. Perhaps some gentle EQing is what you need.
Sundara will be second planar after Deva Pro.
Since I have USB-C audio adapter (CX31993 based) which works well with planar, I am more confident with Sundara.
However, I have to wait until November for obvious reason
For some reason the Sundaras felt very heavy upon my head, creating a hotspot. So they had to be returned, otherwise they sounded excellent.
Sad to see them go..
Do you recommend somethingthat is good all around with a nice soundstage/imaging around 300-500$??
Hi Walrus, that's a shame about the Sundaras. I have the Devas here for review at the moment and they're VERY similar in sound, but have a different headband and a lighter design. I think they'd be a good choice given you liked the Sundara sound. Other than that, I'm not sure what I'd recommend - perhaps some beyerdynamic Amirons or HD660S (I haven't heard the 660 so that's just going on what I've read)
@@PassionforSound I will check them out, thanks for the quick answer ☺️
No problems. The Deva review is still a little way off, but stay tuned if you want to see that one
Pls review the verum 1
I'll see what I can do
I'd certainly be interested in your take on the Verum 1s. I have two planars, the Verum's and a pair of Oppo PM2s and the difference in sound is dramatic. The Verum is an incredibly open sounding phone with a massive soundstage but is very amplifier dependant. The Oppo a much more intimate, warm sound and forgiving in terms of amps. Neither subjectively better than the other, just wildly different.
But of course the original list price of the Oppo was over twice that of the Verums. Unfortunately the chap who runs Verum is more than a bit abrasive at times and has not distinguished himself with some of the things he has said on social media but I have to say, for an essentially one man operation, he has done an extraordinary job.
That's a shame to hear about the Verum guy. I try to avoid supporting or promoting businesses that aren't good to deal with in favour of all the excellent brands out there (in terms of ethics and customer service). That's not to say I'm the brand police, but I think we all need to vote with our time and money to tell companies what is/isn't acceptable.
Which aftermarket cable did you use in Video?
It was the Meze Audio upgrade cable for the Meze 99 Neo, Classic or Noire
What amp and dac did you paired with sundara? and what amp and dac do you recommend to reach sundara's full potential... can any amp-dac pairing improve layering of sundara, if so please suggest one.
i have currently shortlisted: xDuoo XD-05, Chord Mojo (used), topping dx3-pro.
PS: Schiit product ain't available at my location
The Mojo should be the best of those you listed. I have a Mojo here at the moment so let me check...
@@PassionforSound Do chime your impression of mojo pairing in comparison to xduoo. I am not much into buying used stuff... but if mojo is worth considering (by improved layering, details, or richer mids, etc.) i can buy mojo over xduoo.
I can't check it versus the xDuoo because I don't have it here. Was just talking about making sure it can drive the Sundaras effectively (which it should). I'm comfortable that the Mojo will be the better DAC compared to the xDuoo
@@PassionforSound Do you have EarMen TR-Amp? can you check that as well?
Thanks.
I don't, but I'm hoping to review some Earmen gear very soon...
As for the Mojo, it pairs very well with the Sundara. I had to turn it up quite a bit, but the sound was full and rich.
Where in Oz are these available for under $500?
Hi Sean, the price I provided was either accurate to local stores at the time or was a direct conversion of the USD cost if you buy directly from HiFiMan
the meze Empyreans look like a knight from the middle ages would wear. They look really cool
They're an amazing looking headphone. I think I like them more than the Elites still (in terms of looks)
Is this unit you've reviewed pre- or post 2020 revision? I've auditioned the post-revision model on a Chord Hugo 2 and I found that the upper-mids / treble had a rather dry/gritty texture to it, and sounded rather unpleasantly harsh at times with brighter string instruments, saxophones etc. I've heard from others that the pre-revision model didn't suffer so much from this issue, but recognized that gritty harshness in the post-revision model as well.
Interesting! I'm pretty sure this is a pre-revision version because I bought it secondhand and I think they'd owned it a while. HifiMan seem pretty firm that they made no driver changes though so that's weird...
I only heard good things about the Revision, like lower subbass rolloff etc.
IIRC Hifiman said there was no revision to the Sundara at all. The only thing that was changed was the glue used for the PalIPads.
I think it's all noise. HifiMan are pretty open about their revisions and they've directly denied any revision (other than a change of glue in the pads). People will hear things if you tell them they're there to hear so I think it's a case of auditory bias when people hear differences.
@@PassionforSound not true. They changed pad structure, which changes sound. See oratory1990 measurements: www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/jkueoj/hifiman_sundara_2020_revision_eq/
How has the durability been for you now that it’s been 3 years? I just got some for $200 secondhand from a local audio store. They have a good return policy but I really enjoy them and obviously don’t want to have them returned. I know Hifiman has questionable QC.
HiFiMan's QC is actually fine. Their build quality isn't always the best, but reliability is far better than some would have you believe. I think that's a holdover perception from the early days of HiFiMan.
I sold my Sundaras a while back so I can't comment specifically on those, but I've owned every HiFiMan model in recent history (and still own many of them) and have had just one single failure in all of that time which is an excellent strike rate for any brand.
@@PassionforSound thanks so much for the response! Helps me with peace of mind! These are my first “big headphone” purchase outside of the low budget audiophile range.
what amp/dac do you propose for sundara, for warmer/rich sound ? I want to reduce trebles a while...
I'd look at the Asgard 3 from Schiit. Alternatively, you could consider going with tubes with an xDuoo MT-602 or MT-604. At higher levels, the Singxer SA-1 is a great match too
Thanks from India.
I have shanling ua2 DAC/AMP which says that it can deliver 195 mW power @ 32 ohms with 2.5 Volts through a 2.5mm balanced output.
Can my DAC drive the Sundara?can i get enough volume ?
Responded on your other post of this question 🙂
Do you think that an HiBy R5 Saber player could handle it without extra amplification?
Max output power: 1040mW+1040mW@16Ω / 564mW+564mW@32Ω
Hi Jose, I'd have to go back and check the specs, but that looks to me like it should work fine for normal listening levels. It might come down to the current available (which may/may not be published), but I think it should be fine.
@@PassionforSound Thank you so much indeed !!!. I am thinking to change my Beyer DT880 PRO for the SUNDARA. Do you think it is smart change?
Both are good headphones, but I personally prefer the Sundara.
@@PassionforSound Thanks buddy !!
I use xm4 , definitely not happy with how it sounds, Heard good things about Sundara, I'm goona get one
You're in for a large upgrade in sound quality 😃