Why Mace Windu ONLY Told 3 Jedi Palpatine Was a Sith Lord - Star Wars Explained
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"Why would the Jedi council be on Coruscant?:
That's actually one of the criticisms of the order Qui Gon and other detractors within the order had. They felt the Jedi should be trained in and amongst more simpler planets, connected to life, nature and the real people of the galaxy, instead of stooped up in one of the richest planets in the galaxy (at least on the surface layer) cut off from real life under the noses of the Republic.
Of course, the reason they were on coruscant was because they were tied to the Republic through and through. One of the many reasons why the old Jedi lost their way."
What's clear is that Mace had to act fast , the courts were under palpatine's thumb. The audacity of the supreme chancellor to even put forward the notion of anakin acting as his representative on the jedi council set alarm bells ringing within his mind. He sensed a plot to destroy the jedi and, at this point, should have initiated the knightfall protocol, which is a very ancient protocol of the jedi order to basically go into survival mode , most of the orders best would scatter across the galaxy into uncharted worlds only known to the jedi such as the ones deleted from the archives by dooku . Dagobah etc , this would then blindside Palpatine and with the thousands of jedi now virtually undetectable across hidden world's means his plot would not suffice. In this scenario jedi like Quinlan Vos the orders sentinels would be paramount to sniffing out the sith and hunting them down while the rest of the order gather in strength.
Therefore Mace acted like the 6th January guys who stormed the parliament
@@ravanpee1325 “stormed”, you mean let in by capital police after the FBI attempted to incite them.
@@ravanpee1325 Except unlike them, Mace actually nearly succeeded, if it wasn't for Anakin of course.
He was going to commit treason and violate the Jedi orders most sacred fundamental principle that they don't kill prisoners. The majority of Jedi were no different than Anakin despite the constant vitriol they spewed at him.
@Ravan Pee You don't know what you're talking about but okay.
Had Yoda and Obi-Wan not put so much energy into invalidating Mace’s concerns about Palpatine, would Mace have been more likely to call an emergency council meeting after getting the additional info from Anakin?
Which simply would have resulted in order 66 along with proof the Jedi were moving against the Republic. Mace instead should have only notified Yoda, Obi-Wan, Plo Koon, Shaak Ti, and maybe a handful of others.
@@A_Black_Sheep94 My point is that: if Yoda and Obi-Wan had not (self-righteously) downplayed the reality that Palpatine was a Sith Lord, and trusted when Mace said he would not act without support from the council, Mace might’ve been more likely to trust them with the new info he got from Anakin. I don’t disagree that it would’ve been beneficial to have Yoda’s and Obi-Wan’s support and strategic input.
@@madawade
Agreed with your opinion.
Im sure padme and bail organa who were in senate security council could initiate order 65 when the jedi high council secretly investigate further into it for evidence of suspicion.
@bruciewayne i remember where anakin kills her in the draft scene
If Yoda and Obi-Wan did oppose Mace then it makes sense why they went into hiding and basically cut themselves off from the force. The fact that if they trusted in Mace to act swiftly to stop Palpatine they could've taken him down and ended everything. The guilt of failing to act and support Mace cost them the Jedi order and gave Palpatine his power.
I don't know if I agree with that. At that point in the war, and with much power Palpatine had gained, the jedi and their fate were already sealed. Imo I think the end would have come months sooner, had it not been for Palpatines desire to turn Anakin to the dark side. He coveted his potential and having an apprentice/enforcer for what was to come after order 66 was crucial to his plans.
@@056Brahmabull Mace almost killed Palpatine by himself, if he had Yoda by his side then Sidious stood no chance.
@The Vodouisant doesnt change order 66, palpatine would have executed it immediately.
@@056Brahmabull lol while hes fighting for his life???
@@056Brahmabull
Even assuming he does activate it, what’s that gonna do?
Probably kill off several Jedi and even some Council Members, and certainly make it hard for the Jedi to do much, but they still had their Grandmaster and other high ranking Masters from the council. They’d have definitive proof of Palpatine being the one in charge, and likely be very able to accomplish the task. Hell, Anakin needing to save Padme would be the worst thing for them, as they’d have to do something real impactful for that, otherwise risk Anakin turning against them and maybe still commanding Order 66 himself
Love this channel! Makes rewatching star wars that much cooler!
Mace was right. The Republic was illegitimate at that point. It had been for over a decade. There was no outcome by the time of Revenge of the Sith that could be called good. Removing Palpatine could have made a better one than happened, but the Sith had won by the end of The Phantom Menace. The Clone Wars only served to determine the totality of that victory.
Once the clone wars started, Palpatine won... the jedi were forced Into a war that was designed to thin their numbers, and the final nail in the coffin was the very troops that served with them. Palpatine used the arrogance of the jedi, they were predictable and didn't believe a sith lord could take them on and win until it was too late.
@@056Brahmabull It was even the case that Palpatine held all the cards and couldn't lose as he was controlling both the Republic and the CIS.
@@056Brahmabull the only chance was if they all fled even if they were just able to save the younglings and a few knights then it would have been a better outcome being decimated but surviving in the unknown region would have been a better outcome then death and if they destroyed the knowledge in the archive of unknown planets like illum then even better
@@056Brahmabull Palpatine won when he was elected Chancellor. Everything else was just to determine how total was the victory.
Windu also fed off of the darkside, but redirected much if it out, so it affected his judgement. He was right to act fast though, because that war had taken a toll on that galaxy.
His judgement wasn't affected! Windu never really trust Palpatine. Mace true fault was to being so loyal to the Republic and serving the interest of the corrupt Senators and people who supported Palpatine.
Darth Plagueis + Darth Sidious = Insidious Plague
Well then wear a mask, get your shots and stay 6 feet apart.
@@mikevanroy9356 That mask didn’t save Plagueis from his apprentice, especially after Sidious had given his master his shots of force lightning. Also, a distance of 6 feet apart is too short since the Senate can literally barrel role from a long range. Maybe more like 6 systems apart.
You mean insidious plagueis
Sounds like a sick name for a metal band
Lol
I hope some of this gets mentioned in The Bad Batch, by certain surviving Jedi, and in the live-action branch of The Mandoverse, in the flashbacks of Grogu spending time with Jedi Master Kelleran Beq and Quinlan Vos, on Naboo...before things really get bad.
Windu should've enacted the order that would allow the Clone Troopers to target and kill the Chancellor. It was one of the few things Palpatine feared at this time.
It’s crazy because for a time it was feared that Master Windu would turn to the dark side because of his love for Battle. I suppose that’s what Master Obi Wan and Grandmaster Yoda feared was happening. But there is something I want to bring up,
Master Qui - Gon Jinn. He believed in keeping one’s attention on the present and that following the Jedi code in fact, was not always the right way. That following the code was not necessarily equate to serving the Force. This earned the chagrin of his peers especially Master Windu who was absolutely by the book. It seems here he grew frustrated believing in his own way, as Master Jinn did, that they weren’t following what was right. There were a few Jedi like Masters Jinn and Windu who believed the constant passive Jedi teaching was not the way and that one must play an active role when necessary. Rather than not getting involved until the very last minute.
"This is outrageous! It's unfair!"
-Mace Windu probably...
Have a seat Master Windu
Great quote by Anakin the school shooter.
This really illustrates what a master manipulator Palpatine was. Well ordered chaos orchestrated perfectly. Civil unrest unrest on a galactic scale, the justification of the erosion of liberty and freedom. All the while dismantling the only means that could have stopped him from the inside out. Epic. Thanks for the video.
This why i hate him now the new film now make him dumb as the old sith that how should be he has now put in his place THAT HE IS A FUCKING TOOL of the force not a mastermind and ruler
Feels a bit too familiar eh? USA, France, and many other old democracies.
Eh, COVID lockdowns, Free money, suppress opposition while creating distractions for a failed society as they escape
"Nah fuck that, run me my fade now!" - Mace Windu to Obi wan Kenobi
I got to say I have personally read that novel a few times and hearing how it's presented in this video...... Damn I love this shit! Please don't ever stop giving us these amazing moments. By far the best Star Wars commentary I have ever heard.
Mace Windu is one of the most fuckin interesting characters in all of star wars there needs to be a show series or a movie one day bout his character that would be dope if only 🙌
He only told three because he thought that would be enough, but Palpatine stomped them all.
Ironically, this sounds like something Anakin would do. If he wasn't under the duress of Padme's death Anakin probably would have attacked Palpatine as soon as he discovered Palpatine was a Sith Lord.
Anakin wasn't powerful enough to best Sidious yet and he knew it.
I mean that’s essentially what he was going to do both in the office the first time he knows of Palpatine’s real identity, and then the second time when Mace was there over Palpatine
If I were Mace Windu, I would have at least apprised the whole Order about it, and warn the ones in warzones to be on the alert for any treachery from the Clones.
I would’ve also told some other Jedi to begin evacuating the younglings and Padawans from the Jedi Temple.
Even if Order 66 happened, the casualties would be further reduced.
I always wondered why Mace only took a few Jedi with him.
Cuz the then Lucas Arts project couldn't afford both more actors an special effects at the time probably with what they had to work with too. Not to mention in universe they didn't think that while he was obviously VERY to potentially extremely dangerous that he would be THAT dangerous like Mace found himself to be in which turned out to apparently literally be the fight of his life. An the Clone Wars saw each of them in some such pretty nasty fights. An several them even fought the absolute WORST out there like Grevious an Dooku. Till then they just didn't realize there was such a whole nother level of WORST AND MOST DANGEROUS
@@robertagu5533 lol
They underestimated Palpatine. Arrogantly they thought he would lose.
I think if Yoda wasn’t blinded like the rest of the council, he would’ve known what Mace Windu was saying was true and it all could’ve ended right there. Cause if Yoda felt that Mace was telling the truth, Yoda could have convinced everyone else on the council to move against Palp too. Anakin would have found out about him being the real evil and maybe would’ve seeked a different path to save Padme rather than turning to the dark. Mace Windu could sense the dark side around Palp cause his modified form VII lightsaber form made it where he used other’s dark side energy against them. So he knew there was something off from the beginning but was listening to everyone else about Palp rather than getting Yoda to look into it.
well it was too late by the Revenge of the Sith to do anything, Palpatine made the Clone Wars to tear down the Jedi Order. So If Yoda gotten the rest of council on board, Palpatine would execute Order 66 to save his ass. Palpatine is very intelligent. He made plans within plans. Anakin going to the dark side is cherry on top.
If we're talking time line. Yoda wasn't blind, he knew what was coming and what needed to be done future wise. (clone wars seaon 6 ep11) overall the jedi has been in a checkmate situation with sidious since the clone wars started. This conversation that the 3 are having is still a check mate situation. Going against someone who is in charge of the Republic with no proof clearly wouldnt be in their favor. These conversations came about by the end of the war that's why Anakin got his assignetment. There was no time to rally everybody else.
@@momentie4438 it's already too little too late; they lost the game the second that Palpatine became The Supreme Chancellor
@@momentie4438 sigh, this is what I detest that kids show, you're saying Yoda KNEW what was coming and didn't alert the rest of the Jedi? That show is just overhyped fanservice and fanfiction at this point
@@DLR1997 no they didn't, Mace nearly killed Palpatine if he wasn't betrayed by Anakin. Palpatine was legitimately disarmed and cornered. His lightning was being redirected in his face and body so that easnt helping him either, he was out of tricks. So no, the Jedi didn't lose until they actually lost.
Okay but Mace ain't even sorta wrong. Homie makin good points
At the end of the day in this time period of the lore, order 66 was ready but the fact that even yoda was on board (must have proof) makes me upset with Anakin and outraged because his an idiot and truly fell to the dark side. That's probably why windu didn't want him as grandmaster because of the possibility of him being in on it would ruin it but Palpatine played him like a game of snake. He not great he just a fool who was power hungry just like the rest, at first I agreed with him slaughtering all the aliens who captured his mom but after this boy was he corrupt
The alternative possibility (counterfactual, relative to canon version of this fiction) is so interesting. Possibly, no matter how bad Mace's decision turned out, possibly it was the best of all possible worlds, anyway. Thanks so much for thistruly interesting video.
Minor correction: Mace summoned the 3 best duelists of the jedi council available to him at the time. Had everyone on the council been available I'm sure he would go in with Yoda and Obi-Wan. The 3rd one is debatable if he would even take a 3rd one with him. I'd wager the highest chances on it being Plo Koon.
Palpatine: "You gotta admit, I played this stink'n galaxy like a harp from HELL HAHA!"
had he told Yoda instead of running off hastly, I think we would have seen things work out much differently. Obi-wan and Yoda would have returned to Coruscant and Yoda alone would have gone to confront Palpatine if he didn't give up power. Instead of leaving Anakin alone to deal with his feelings, he would have had Obi-wan, Mace and the rest of the Council to not only look after him, but if he was to go to the dark side this time, he would have been quickly executed. If Yoda was still having difficulties with Palps (which I doubt he would this time), and Palps initiated order 66, you would have had a large portion of the Council at the Temple to guard against the Jedi being wiped out and a message would have gotten out warning the rest of the order to be on guard.
Yoda couldn't defeat sidious when they fought..😅why would he defeat him now? They stalemated. Mace was the only one capable of actually beating him. Palpatine was much more attuned in the force than the jedi during that time. That's how he managed to deceive the entire order. He would've suspected something had yoda and Obi-Wan returned from battle that wasn't even over.
I don't think it would have mattered much, the public had largely turned against the jedi at that point in the war and the clones vastly outnumbered the jedi.
Yoda couldn't even defeat Dooku.
Master Windu's corruption got me shish-ka-bobbed.
Mace Windu was very much "in-tune" with both sides of the force.... Which I believe is why he was one of the few only Jedi that saw this coming the rest where too worried about "politics"....
Which makes they way he treats Anakin so annoying. Mace and Anakin are very similar
The entire Jedi Council was in derelict of their duty...they ALL were blinded by confidence in their traditions...
I do think that if things played out just a little different, the Clone Wars would’ve lead to the Third Great Schism.
Possibly better than 20 years of Imperial rule.
@@TJDious And also Possibly Worse.
Though probably not. *shrug*
@@AURON2401 Definitely worse!!!
@@TJDious wait what’s the third great schism
@@kingrome-19 it comes after the second
Mace decision was just... ABSOLUTELY STUPID !!!
1) Palpatine was Chancellor for 13 years. Mace did not asked himself why Palpatine has chosen this specific moment to reveal himself to Anakin. He did that when Obi-Wan was on Utapau, and Yoda on Kashyyk. Mace didn't had to move so fast. He could have waited Yoda and Obi-Wan to come back.
2) Mace did not even made the link betweeek Palpatine alias Sidious, and Tyranus alias Dooku : i.e the Sith controlling both sides of the wae. Maybe he would have understood that the clones were part of the Sith plans, and maybe telling this to other Jedi would have been a necessary precaution before acting against the Chancellor. They would have see Order 66.
3) Mace dit not even made the Jedi Temple evacuated, just in case he failed his attempt
4) 2000 senators, including Padmé, Mon Motma and Bail Organa were against Palpatine. Giving them the information about Palpatine being a Sith behind both the Clone War and the Siege of Naboo, would have made them allies in the Senate to overthrow Palpatine.
Mace is the first responsible of the fall of the Jedi.
Padme, Mon Motma and Bail Organa couldn't do shit! It was even proven more during the Empire up to Star Wars and a New Hope! Tarkin said it in the movie! The Emperor dissolved the Senate. He had official total power. It may have to 18 to 20 years but it happen. Mean while, the Empire terrorized people in the galaxy for those 18 to 20 years while he Senate was still in place.
They f around and found out
stands to reason why Yoda would feel like he needs to go into exile. because he witnessed a small error cascade into a Sith takeover.
for the longest time i rly didn't like Mace Windu because of how harsh he acted towards Anakin and stuff, but with those latest vids my views on him have completely changed, and i'm starting to agree with a lot of his ideas, altho he was very reckless abt them. Windu is that kind of guy everyone calls a conspiracy theorist, but he's actually right abt everything, he's just unable to prove his point, and Palpatine played his cards perfectly to not allow the Jedi to have any chance to counter anything he does, the whole Jedi order had their hands tied and they were already doomed to fail one way or another.
I think Windu's only chance at that very end would have been if beforehand he had talked with Anakin and showed him his cards, explained to him why he had to do everything he had done to Anakin, and that now they all needed his help more than ever. If he had managed to convince Anakin to join his side against Palpatine, maybe they could have had a chance, even if afterward they ended up being forced to surrender for "treason". They'd spend some years in jail but both the Jedi order and the republic could have had a better chance of surviving.
This is why we need a retelling of episode 3 as a cg mini series, one which would follow the book novel more closely.
This has nothing to do with taking over, it’s just them reiterating that they might have to remove palpatine by force….exactly what is stated in the movie. There’s nothing anywhere that I find points to them trying to take over in any way, just to remove palpatine and then get the power back to the senate
Facts
@huitzillicualli And once they had seized power, they could get used to it...
7:13 erm, I gota call BS… Yoda knew what Mace and his Jedi team were about to do because there was a scene in the ROTS novel where Mace contacted Yoda and informed him of what was going on.
Mace Windu is the goat and one of my favorite Jedi!!!
To think George Lucas made mace specifically for Sam
Mace was willing to be sacrificed tho. He knew what he was doing. The reason the force told Mace he needed the councils permission because with out it, he didn't stand a chance. But finally he had to do what he had to do, he just didn't know how far the force darkened around palps
If sid was slayed on the final day of the clone wars, the jedi Civil War would surely begin.
Lines drawn brother against brother, student against teacher. It would be a short lived war but it would rock the galaxy to its core.
This guy is unbelievable. Listen to what he says and how he saying certain things. Makes window was never in his entire experience of being a Jedi knight and master, he has never been desperate.
Remember the dialogue in revenge of the Sith after Anakin Skywalker revealed that the Supreme Chancellor is the Sith Lord. Mace Windu specifically said “then our worst fear has been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.”
That dialogue alone shows that at some point in time Jedi master mace Windu suspected that the supreme Chancellor was the Sith Lord.
The way this contact creator speaks, he is alluding that mace Windu is the reason or what have been the reason for the fall of the Jedi. He’s crazy. Mace Windu more than anybody else was on the supreme Chancellor‘s trail.
He definitely needed to take control by force. Because the evil supreme being was in control of the entire time. You don’t get to argue oh he’s not doing it politically correct. The Sith Lord has control of damn you’re everybody. You have to take it from him by force it doesn’t matter that he’s in a political arena power. He started galactic war. Can you power to put himself in the ultimate position.
Mace Windu was 100% in the right direction. Discounting create is trying to argue legality. When the evil one has control of everybody behind the scenes. force was absolutely necessary.
What’s more the content creator for this video just lied on Jedi Master Mace Windu. Master Windu attempted to arrest The Supreme Chancellor even after his fellow Jedi Brethren were killed b4 him. And after he defeated the dark Lord of the Sith. His only goal was still to arrest him. It was only after Anakin Skywalker showed up, the dark Lord of the Sith attempted to kill mace Windu. Out of everything that happened, his Jedi friends and family members killed murdered,he only still try to arrest him after he defeated him in Lightsaber combat. It was only at the eminent moment where Sidious attempted to kill Master Windu. The Jedi Master finally had enough and was gonna kill Darth Sidious outta self defense.
It does kinda make sense to create a firebreak between himself and Yoda when the shit hits the fan. He can take the fall by saying they went rouge.The coming jedi schism would have been bloodier. You had a ton of Jedi ready to turn . One temple guard turn inquisitor comes to mind.
Windu really drop in the deepest darkest abyss
I saw the title of the video and that actually makes sense like why didn’t he tell more then 3
You'd think that when Anakin tells Windu that Palpatine was THE Sith Lord, the one they've been looking for who has been operating in secret for so long, obtained so much power that it would be all hands-on deck when they went to confront him.
"Rising to become a Sith Lord, Plagueis, acting as the leader of Damask Holdings, a financial corporation, manipulated galactic affairs and corporations to advance the Sith agenda and the Galactic Republic's fall. While manipulating the Naboo on the planet Naboo, he discovered Palpatine, a man with the desire to rule. Plagueis manipulated the boy to kill his family, which led the young man to accept Plagueis's Sith training."
"The master and apprentice continued the Sith agenda together, with Palpatine saving his master from many assassination attempts, however, Palpatine, now teaching the Zabrak Sith apprentice Darth Maul, wished to kill his master and rule the Republic alone."
"We Sith are an unseen opposition. A phantom menace. Where the Sith once wore armor, we now wear cloaks. But the Force works through us all the more powerfully in our invisibility."
DARTH TENEBROUS TO A YOUNG DARTH PLAGUEIS
"The Grand Plan, also known as the Great Sith Plan and the Sith conspiracy, was a long-percolating plot hatched by the Sith. Originating with the Sith Lord Darth Bane, who had emerged victorious from a devastating conflict among his peers, its aim was to corrupt the Galactic Republic from within, discredit and diminish the Jedi Order, and ultimately rule the galaxy. A millennium after its creation, the Grand Plan was fulfilled by Darth Sidious."
"For a thousand years we have kept to the shadows, not afraid of the Jedi-but ourselves. The dark side is powerful. It is too powerful. The weak will meekly stand in regimented order. The Sith… One master. One apprentice. No more. For generations. Generations building to me."
DARTH SIDIOUS, TO DARTH VADER
"After Sidious began his training, he inherited the Sith Archives, a knowledge bank containing a thousand years' knowledge passed by master to apprentice. When Sidious read the Archives, he noted that Mother Talzin, Sorzus Syn, Malgus, Bane and Plagueis would find little common ground if they shared their knowledge, as they focused on their own dogmas."
"In 67 BBY, the Sith Lord Darth Plagueis murdered his Master, Darth Tenebrous, on Bal'demnic. Tenebrous's disembodied consciousness accessed his apprentice's body and Force senses through the maxi-chlorian retrovirus and saw a vision of the future, in which Plagueis's apprentice killed him before he had the chance to complete his life's work, which Tenebrous believed was the creation of the Chosen One. The Dark Lord panicked and abandoned Plagueis's body. The mysterious apprentice in Tenebrous's vision was invisible to his Force sense, and he only perceived him as the shadow. On Naboo, the young Palpatine was waiting for a chance to join the Sith, and this turn of events was the first step towards bringing Plagueis to Naboo, and, 35 years later, realizing Tenebrous's vision."
"I said 'use the Force', not 'use force' guys"
i think that the start of the Jedi's downfall was when they built their temple on top of a storage for Sith artefact's
I would find a video regarding your idea of a Republic Civil War beginning in the late stages of the Clone Wars very interesting.
Awesome video!
Had Mace tried this and failed it would have worked in Siddious favor to such a degree that the Repubic would have turned against the Jedi completely. Everything would have changed at a much more accelerated rate. Which is what Yoda must have been referencing when mentioning this leads to a dark place.
But what if mace didn’t fail? What would have happened to the Jedi and the order then, because the truth is mace was right. And the Council waiting to long to act and using anakin as a spy got them killed
@@quintbakerjr2786 If Anakin wasn't coming to interrupt the fight and Palpatine knew he wasn't able to turn him Mace absolutely would have failed.
@@A_Black_Sheep94 failed in what? Mace overpowered him. The council knew where the sith was before. They literally tracked the dark side to Palpatine apartment. They concluded in their own arrogance that Palpatine couldn't be sith looking to rule...bc he already ruled the galaxy. They had proof. They lacked common sense.
@@A_Black_Sheep94
But even if that is true that doesn’t change the fact that mace was right in the end. If the Jedi would have taken action the could have beaten palpatine. Let’s look at the Jedi now, destroyed from within by there best Jedi. If they had listened to mace there fate may have been different.
@Q B No Mace did not overpower him. If you actually watch the scene you will see early on that Palpatine checkmates Mace and has his saber pointed directly at Maces heart while Mace is helpless with his saber at his side but Palpatine left him alive anyway because he was waiting for Anakin. After leaving Mace alive to continue dueling they are in a complete stalemate despite Maces vapaad until Anakin showed up at which point Palpatine gave up and no I don't want to hear a quote from Lucas talking about the choreography of the scene.
Palpatine played the perfect game. Every option he allowed the Jedi to have was simply not going to work in their favor:
Kill him? The Jedi would be accused of assassination and attempted coup.
Arrest him? On what charges? For following a different philosophy on the Force? There’s no evidence yet of any wrongdoing.
Find evidence against him? Yeah, good luck with that.
Run and hide? And abandon the Republic and Galaxy at a time like this? Never.
Do nothing? Hm… execute Order 66.
The Jedi were playing Chutes and Ladders while Palpatine was playin 4D chess.
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."...burn...
I don't see it as treason because since prior to Naboo, the senator was committing treason, which is how he came to be chancellor in the first place. Master Windu was by no means perfect, but he knew that something was underway. In this case, he reminds me of Master Qui-Gon... feeling and not thinking. And he was correct...
The Stupendous Wave
Mace should told Yoda in advanced prior attempts to arrest.
Except Windu was right about most of it. The very fact of the emergency rule that should be enough verification of what to do.
I'm guessing if this occurred during the High Republic Era, the Jedi would go to his office and sing him a song. Palpatine would pull a Grinch and his heart would grow three sizes that day.
This just makes me like Mace even more!
Doing what is right isn't always what is considered lawful. It's the reason I didn't pursue a career in law/law enforcement after 2 years of studying law.
Mace had the Force ability of Shatterpoint and would have been able to see the window closing for the best possible effect.
The thing is everyone wants to make Mace look bad for this and make him look “no different than a Sith” but Windu was right. Everything Windu predicted and feared came to fruition. Windu isn’t shady, he knows the truth that in that galaxy, there was no black and white solution
Mace was trying to save the galaxy not just the Jedi order! I believe Mace was truly sensing everything the moment he told Anakin to report to Palpatine about Obi Wan on Utapa but he really sensed everything when fighting Palpatine. Mace never really trusted Palpatine. However being that once he became the Chancellor, as person beliving in the Republic, he served the Senate and Palpatine wish. However, once he knew Palpatine was the Sith lord. Mace knew exactly what needed to be done. It wasn't to wait for the council or most of the Jedi to come back. He knew he had act on Palpatine right away. Besides, Palpatine would have never allowed all or most of the Jedi council and Jedi to come back to Courasant. He may had took over but Order 66 would have never worked as well with all or most of the Jedi back on Coursant! Also meaning, the Republic would have been in a full civil war and Palpatine empire wouldn't have lasted long!
Mace was one of the few to sense Palpatine was a sith lord because he was on a path towards the dark side himself with his anger from the clone wars taking it's toll and that this would have allowed him to see fractures within the chancellor's force shroud. I don't think Mace would have ever fully turned to the dark side as he was a highly accomplished Jedi, but it would be arrogant to assume that in such times of turmoil that he would be unaffected by the sheer power of the dark side growing from the Senate and the temple.
No, he wasn't about to turn! If he was about to turn, he would have turned to the darkside in the fight against Palpatine and the fight would have been over quickly with Windu winning. Anakin turned to the darkside and went right back to the light or on the edge multiple times. He did it with the Sand people after his mother died or his fight with Dooku on the 2nd Hand. Anakin and Windu temperament and nature were just about the same. They seem to be always teetering on the darkside. The difference, Mace wasn't manipulate by Palpatine like Anakin was and Mace controlled his emotions far better than Anakin. The only reason Mace always obey or back Palpatine orders once he became Chancellor because he believed in the Republic and following orders. However, Windu didn't agree with alot of stuff Palpatine was ordering and etc. It reached a boiling point during the ROTS!
Mace was right, in the end he was right. Knowing that palpatine was the Sith Lord if they acted as mace wanted I think he could of saved the Jedi order an changed the outcome of the whole series, the problem was that yoda an obi-one refused to take action an wanted to wait I wonder how that worked out? Plus I think mace had good intentions to want to go on the offensive as he wasn’t looking for power or his own self interest but the interest of the entire galaxy. So the fault in my opinion lays on the council an not mace.
I imagine this could’ve sparked a Jedi Civil War on a rather intriguing level so much so that serious might have to put his plans on hold, because even he might even be somewhat forced to choose a side momentarily after all, he wanted to strike the most devastating attack on the Jedi order as a whole, but that plane would be Either in shambles or scrapped if the Jedi order split into, you’d have to come up with an entirely new strategy, possibly.
Anakin would be standing in the middle
Conflicted on who he should side with. Anakin could finally have the potential to stop both sides from fighting each other and thus Anakin could end the Jedi Civil War by himself
By this point, not sure if by that time the Jedi could’ve done anything. If a large amount of Jedi suddenly began making their way towards the Senate, that’s a huge red flag in of itself and not only would the Jedi just not reach Palpatine as he would’ve fled beforehand but would’ve exposed the Jedi as genuinely trying to overthrow the government. It probably would’ve splintered the Order itself, which would be interesting to see how many Dark Siders began to crop up and become Inquisitors
Honestly I think that any timeline where Mace acts earlier ( presuming he actually succeeds and isn't just cut down ) is a better one.
The darkest problem with it was that the Jedi would be interfering in the function of the Republic but this is also a problem that they can back down from almost immediately. While Mace and those like him would have been pushing hard to do something up until the point once Palpatine is dead the need for direct Jedi control lessens dramatically and they can back off if/when other Jedi threaten to split the order over it. They might lose Jedi like they did Ahsoka, being disillusioned as a whole and that might ultimately destroy the order as an institution but that's hardly worse then the real timeline which also destroyed the order, much of the accumulated Jedi knowledge, tons of innocent force sensitives, etc. Even Palpatine loyalists wouldn't be much of a threat given how huge a step down in danger they are from Palpatine himself, the worst they can do is destroy the Jedi as an organization and I don't think any of them had a hope of replacing Palpatine as the central hub of power in the republic, as Palpatine himself intended.
You could also say Mace was acting out of the sheer hubris that made the Jedi order vulnerable to being taken out.
Palpatine knew that a conflicted Anakin would dutifully report him to the order and it was highly
likely the order who could not detect Palpatine was a dark side user in his presence, would only half believe Anakins story.
Sure Mace took 3 masters with him but I feel like Mace wanted to verify Palpatines identity as a Sith Lord for himself before alerting the entire order.
He had to feel that 4 Jedi masters was more then enough to handle Palpatine who was more likely
a frontman for the real Sith menace and he was
only manipulating the powerful but naive Anakin
Windu was bound to crack like dooku.
6:20 he didn't summon the best duellists on the council, he took those that were around because half the council were offworld! and the 3 were already waiting for him, to arrest the chancellor, when anakin told him the truth.
you seem to not understand the sequence of events
Yoda sounds more like I can’t support such drastic measures without proof to secure the position of our council. Obi-Wan sounds like no way. Mace Windy sounded like I am being blocked by own council, even they are influenced by the sith. This ultimately shows how Mace and Dooku were ultimately similar in that they equally determined force was needed even if it meant using the dark side. The two could have been allies. Sadly the Jedi far too often kept to themselves their truth. The council was broken and Yoda had been powerless to unify them. Maybe not so much arrogant or foolish but unable to stop the council from breaking he attempted to be a voice of reason but ultimately did not wish to see the death of the council. He could not condone those who wanted to use force for it would go against his idea of the Jedi as well as threaten the standing of the council, yet he also wanted to stop the sith. Yoda appears to have preferred nonviolent actions but as the leader ultimately tried to adjust rather than adapt what it meant to be a Jedi. He did not wish to be stuck because he had to represent all aspects of though but also was stuck himself in pricing a broken council and a broken republic. He could not see past the broken shells to complete either. It was a tragedy but not one of foolishness. Simply he did not know how to resolve the conflict as a Jedi under what he understood a Jedi to be.
Mace might not have wanted to admit it. But he was gradually starting to lose his grip on his inner darkness. Had he gone through with his plan earlier not only would it have allowed Palpatine to declare Orde 66 sooner but it would have also caused Mace to fall to The Dark Side himself.
I dont know where this idea that Mace was becoming dark sided comes from? sounds like headcanon
@@Prince_the_One I mean based on the Novelization, and what happened to every other Vaapad user, is it really so hard to believe that right before the end Mace may have been creeping dangerously close and seeing clones butchering his friends and allies all around him might throw him over the edge? In that hypothetical scenario I could definitely see Mace pulling out his own surprise Force Lightning as he just surrenders to his hatred of Palpatine. Hell Palpatine might even decide to make Mace his apprentice instead of Anakin in that scenario.
Mace wasnt losing anything. He was caught in what he knew was a kafka trap.
@@kaimagnus5760 seeing as Mace never saw any clones killing Jedi, I don't know what you mean. I guess you're talking about if Mace survived. You should know that Vaapad takes extreme willpower, of which Mace showed time and time again that he was one of the most disciplined Jedi, which is partially why he distrusted Anakin, because Anakin was one of the most unstable and undisciplined Jedi. When you consider this, it doesn't make any sense for you to single out Mace in this way.
@@Prince_the_One Bruh, did you watch the video OR actually read anything I typed? I set out a WHOLE theoretical scenario for if Mace jumped the gun and went after Palpatine when he first wanted to.
The moment Anakin told Windu, he should’ve alerted the other council members, and the Jedi temple should’ve been placed in high alert. There should’ve been a plan in place to disperse the Jedi throughout the galaxy making it incredibly difficult for Palpatine to execute order 66. This would give the Jedi council much needed time to put a plan in action to reveal Palpatine’s corruption to the senate.
Windu’s arrogance and distrust of Anakin clouded his judgement, which led to him being foolish enough to take Palpatine head on. Like why the hell would you think you could defeat a Sith Lord that has been scheming right under your nose for the past like 2 decades as chancellor? It’s obvious that this guy would be like 10 steps ahead of you.
It was at this point where Mace stopped thinking like a Jedi and started acting more like a member of a para-military organization. Rather than put his faith in and let the will of the force play out, Mace made the huge mistake of putting his faith in and fighting for politics. Mace having grown up in both the Jedi order & republic lead to him believing them to be synonymous with one another, therefore, the Sith threatening the republic meant that they also threatened the Jedi order and the Sith threatening the Jedi order meant that they also threatened the republic. Either way, the Sith put the fear of losing the political status quo in Mace and he absolutely was not going to allow that to happen.
Looks like even space wizards aren't immune from the polarizing allure of politics and becoming right fighters against all reason and consideration of the consequences.
Thanks for the explanation
The Stupendous Wave
Jedi Council remind me of Citadel Council from Mass Effect Trilogy especially before Mass Effect 3 Opening Scene.
I’d like to see the Jedi Civil War What If? Very relevant. And seems more likely than the story as currently told.
Maybe a shatter point
"Mace grabbed the best dualists on the council and headed for Palpatine"
Me: 😶 (spits out coffee) THE WHAT? THE BEST DUALISTS? SAY THAT AGAIN. I DARE YOU I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU.
Remember folks on the final day of the clone wars, the great emperor Palpatine (formerly chanceler) survived the jedi revealing there insidious makanations.
To slay our great leader and subvert the galactic senate for there own gain. If not for the actions of lord Vader of whom is recovering from his injuries after stopping the assassination and wiping out the jedi insurgents at there temple.
The empire will take great care not to ignore rogue elements and insure peace
It makes you wonder what would have happened if Anakin had not intervened on Sidious' behalf and he fell to Windu's violet blade: Skywalker probably would have told the Council that Windu murdered the Supreme Chancellor in cold blood, while Mace would defend that he was only saving the galaxy from the oppression of the Sith. Either way, I think Yoda would have little choice but to expel Mace Windu from the Jedi Order and hand him over to the Senate for trial (much like Ahsoka). The only questions after that are who becomes the new Supreme Chancellor? Mas Amedda? Someone else? And what of the Jedi Order? Would other Jedi leave the Order after Windu is arrested/convicted/executed? Would there be another Jedi Civil War without end? Would they even be allowed to exist under the new Supreme Chancellor after Palpatine's death?
Guess what! Padme would have still been alive! Then in Anakin naive and easily manipulated mind, he would have realized Palpatine was liar and spoke nothing but lies. The man who was trying to kill his wife multiple times as the Sith Lord!
He told 3 bc most were out in war already. These 3 were literally some of the most powerful jedi..plus they were available. Palpatine controlled the army,senate, and courts. Waiting would've brought the same results.
If Windu had waited for the council to decide what to do with Palps then Anakin wouldn’t have needed to rush in to defend palps and kill Windu. They fell right into Palp’s trap. Windu, Yoda, Obi Wan etc could have over powered him and arrested him and put him on trial. There would have been no order 66 and they could have forced Maul to testify seeing at this point he had already been captured and contained by Ahsoka.
Windu proved to be just as hot-headed as Anakin.
This simply backs up what i said about the jedi all along, they where blinded by there own pious attitude, too slow to act, too crippled by fear of being wrong and to concerned about the preservation of the status quo. This is why Sidious could move so freely and manipulated the politics so somply.
Mace (broadcasting galaxy-wide): "Attention everyone. Chancellor Palpatine is a Sith Lord who has been controlling both the Republic and the Separatists! We must arrest, try, and incarcerate him!!"
Anakin (to Mace): "Ha ha, April Fool's!! Just joking!!"
Mace: 🥶🥶🥶
I'm with Windu, but he probably should have gotten Yoda to go with him to fight Palpatine. It would have been an easy win.
Mace told his 3 most trusted who were present a the time of operation... Even then going into it, not knowing if he even could trust those 3, and of those 3, the snitch betrayed the Jedi just as soon as he betrayed the sith... Probably all that training about balance, considering Vader was a sith about the same amount of time as a Jedi.... Dude wasn't making balance, he was balance
Regarding your final comments, I would love if Lucasfilm made a whatif movie/serie about Palpatine being killed by Mace but still Anakin turns to the dark side and there is a civil war between the Jedis. Maybe in that parallell universe Anakin becomes emperor, raises his children to rule the galaxy with him, and there is no one who blows the Death Star.
Mace was so into executing Ahsoka that even after she was proven innocent, all he said was "the Force works in mysterious ways" instead of a heartfelt apology. he messed up due to his rash thinking. it was this that ultimately doomed the Jedi. and ppl say Anakin was emotional lol.
Who cares Ashokas story is so insignificant compared to what happened here she don’t need a damn apology ,she got off lucky compared to a lot of other Jedi and former Jedi It wasnt Maces job to be Nice Anakin is a Perfect example of why Mace acted the way he did Anakin Doomed the Jedi y’all like yo look past the Bull shit he did
What I'm noticing more and more are the political parallels and undertones to this prequel trilogy.
The Jedi, plotting their own treason in the background, are undoubtedly the good guys, but even they have their plots.
Notice that the Emperor gets away with HIS scheme because he first called out the other side and was able to act more quickly on their supposedly unfounded plots.
Now compare that to what's happening in American politics today.
Makes me wonder if Sidious manipulated Mace Windu through the Force to bring out the dark side in him.
After the first battle where Mace kill jango fet he was not going to let it happen again that is why he was going to kill the emperor
You should've mentioned the rest of what yoda said, which was actually palpatines plan. " To move against palpatine while the sith still exist. This may be part of the sith plan itself. To turn the senate and the public against the jedi! So that we are not only disbanded but outlawed."
idk man, I think the extrajudicial murder of sidious was just about the best option the Jedi council had. It would have essentially destroyed the sith forever and saved the republic, even if it would be an enormous blow to the reputation of the Jedi
The Sith would have went back into hiding 😮👹
At this point there was only one Sith (that we knew of until Ep 9) and he was busy ruling the galaxy. Would have been pretty hard ro hide.
makes exciting streaming production ideas
Mace was getting desperate, He was losing control. He was slipping. I can imagine their arguement. Yoda,Obi-Wan and Mace. Yoda and other would stop them. It's possible there would be civil war. But short. But the Empire wouldn't be created. May the Force be with you too. See you soon :)
Windu was impatient and acted without thinking and that's what cause the Jedi order to be destroyed
He walked straight into Palpatine's trap.
Totally with Windu on this one. The purpose of the Jedi is maintaining peace and harmony. Everything, even drastic, must be done to guarantee that. If the senate keeps getting things out of control and gives all power to the Chancelor, the Jedi might get considered the bad guys and there would be no peace guaranteed. Windu's intentions were noble and sometimes for good purposes you have to do bad things. Of course if Palpatine only would have been a puppet and not THE Sith Lord they should just arrest him in the first place, but if the Sith Lord would make the whole Senate support Palpatine against the Jedi then might arresting him not be enough. Once they discovered Palpatine was actually the Sith Lord himself, then kill him was indeed the best option...
How was he desperate?? Dude was right period and he wasn't advocating for the Jedi taking control for the sake of control. He as you stated yourself,had witnessed Palpatine continue to gain power even though the war was consistently prolonged. He had already sensed the dark side around the chancellor so it's not like he was guessing or making a random a$$ decision. Palpatine was in total control and in Mace's mind, he knew Anakin was coming to tell that he was Sidious,so the only move to make was to confront Palps