I had a feeling Crusader Kings was the reason why you made this video Invicta. Kings and Generals have made a couple of video's about the courts of various European n Middle Eastern Kingdoms. I like this video.
Just imagine, the Emperor grants you the title of Hyperprotopansebastohypertatos, and every time you go to a formal meeting you have to introduce yourself as the "Very Super Extra Special Boy", that sounds like a punishment rather than a cool title lol!
It reminds me of when you try to log into an account but you forgot your password and email but you liked the name so you use it again when creating a new one but you put "super" or "very special" in front of it and that happens like 10 times.
@@shorewall The killing of men by the hand of the crusaders, specially ones of same faith, and of only different perceptions, and you thank God? THE most forgiving being there is? Please... Killings and massacres and genocides and crimes as such aren't tollerated even by atheists! These are all horrible things! People suffered! Don't comemorate people's deaths. End of rant.
@@Marshal_Rock indeed. Important players in feudal politics like the church and the urban burgers were completely ignored and don't get me started on how simplified the feudal Nobility system is
There is an ancedote like that in ancient China, too. An aristocrat decided to show his rival an ornament coral to display his wealth. The said rival was not only unimpressed, he proceeded to smash it apart, then brought out his collection of bigger corals and told the aristocrat to pick one as a replacement.
@Chris Walker Westerners weren't treated like shit. This was Luitprand's 2nd visit to Constantinople. In the first visit, he was treated like a prince in every way, and praised the experience, the city, the emperor(at the time, Constantine Porphyrogenitus), etc. His 2nd visit requires context. He was acting as ambassador for the king of the Franks, who had been invading Byzantine territory, burning cities, etc, in an effort to get the Byzantines to relinquish their Italian provinces. When this failed, they asked for a wife, in an effort to be gifted Byzantine Italy as a dowry. Luitprand went to Constantinople to make this demand, then insulted the emperor, and called him "Roman only in name, and not in fact." He also called the Byzantines slaves of women or something to that effect. The emperor was now Nikephorus II, a grim, unsympathetic, hardened military man, who was pissed about the Frank's audacious behavior and crimes against Byzantine Italy. His mission failed, and, as a diplomat, he wrote a very hyperbolic diatribe on his experience to save face, as his king was probably very unhappy, and his reputation was on the line. Luitprand served as a diplomat for several different rulers of different kingdoms, like a free agent.
@@histguy101 The kingdom that Lutiprand served wasn't a frankish one. It was the germans under the German Kaiser Otto the Great. Otto also wasn't burning cities at all. He didn't have the siege engines in italy to actually take the eastern roman cities. He delegated the war of Pandulf Ironhead who was the Lombard prince of Benevento. Otto didn't seek a byzantine wife for his son as a way to recieve southern italy as a dowry. He wanted a wife to legitimize his rule of the western empire and his imperial title (which he defacto was).
Apart from mentioned splendour that the Constantinople court was swimming in, Eastern Romans also went with great effort to point out their technological supremacy. We have accounts of marvelous engineering feats employed to astonish the envoys, such as golden trees with little robot birds that were moving and even singing or of an imperial throne that would mechanically raise itself high above the ground, so that the emperor could look down on ambassadors! It's a real shame that none of Eastern Roman mechanical devices survived to this day. They are certainly marvelous for both their and our times!
@@1992zorro There seems to have been two sets of automata. The first was built for Theophilos, but was melted down by a cash-strapped Michael II. The second seems to have appeared around the time of Constantine VII. Both appear in a number of the 10th c. sources (Theophanes Continuatus, Leo Grammaticus, Symeon Magister) although de Ceremoniis seems to have one of the fullest descriptions. Liutprand of Cremona, a bishop who travelled to Constantinople in the tenth century also mentioned roaring mechanical lions at the imperial throne. See G. Brett, 'The Automata in the Byzantine "Throne of Solomon"', Speculum 29.3 (1954), pp. 477-87
Liutprand "In front of the emperor’s throne was set up a tree of gilded bronze, its branches filled with birds, likewise made of bronze gilded over, and these emitted cries appropriate to their species. Now the emperor’s throne was made in such a cunning manner that at one moment it was down on the ground, while at another it rose higher and was to be seen up in the air. This throne was of immense size and was, as it were, guarded by lions, made either of bronze or wood covered with gold, which struck the ground with their tails and roared with open mouth and quivering tongue. Leaning on the shoulders of two eunuchs, I was brought into the emperor’s presence. As I came up the lions began to roar and the birds to twitter, each according to its kind, but I was moved neither by fear nor astonishment . . . After I had done obeisance to the Emperor by prostrating myself three times, I lifted my head, and behold! the man whom I had just seen sitting at a moderate height from the ground had now changed his vestments and was sitting as high as the ceiling of the hall." This is a great short article: historynewsnetwork.org/article/169277
I can't help but feel really sorry for Luitprand he was an ambassador and the Byzantine Emperor treated him poorly. All just to unsettle him. Terrible. Great video.
Bruh, he went there to intentionally stir up shit cause he was sent by the HRE. Liutprand praises the Empire, the Emperor Constantine and the City in his first visit under King Berengar II. His 2nd visit was as an ambassador for Otto II so he could get a Byzantine Wife. He doubly dogs on the Empire to save face cause his mission was a failure.
@@tylerellis9097 Bruh, that's not "intentionally stirring shit" anymore than what every court and kingdom does in this time period. It simply is braindead to needlessly antagonize other peoples unless you're in a supreme position of strength, and as we see, while the Byzantines often were, this arrogance meant that when they were down -it was much easier for everyone to kick them while they were down. In a fashion, the Byzantines were their own worst enemy. This is a far cry from some of the Byzantines best moments in using their wealth and prestige to turn the tables like getting the Varangians at the cost of a Byzantine Princess, or using the First Crusade to buy time for the Empire to get some breathing room, etc.
@@stephenjenkins7971 He Literally calls Nikephoros, the Byzantine Emperor, a Ethiopian And a Rapid animal while demanding a Wife for Otto II and that the Byzantine Empire give up its Italian territory. You don’t believe me? Then here ya go Liutprands own Words. en.wikisource.org/wiki/Select_Historical_Documents_of_the_Middle_Ages/Appendix Educate yourself before you shit on the Byzantines. The HRE was literally attacking the Byzantine empire when he was sent, having recently failed to take Bari. Holy Roman Empire attacking the Byzantines while they were fighting the Muslim Emirates, who’s the asshole here lol.
@@tylerellis9097 Bruh, your own source literally says otherwise. This was the diplomat's report on the Court of Constantinople; and the diplomat, after being thoroughly humiliated and mistreated long before ever reaching the Byzantine Emperor, was pretty justified in making some pretty screwed up insults. He never said that to the Emperor's face. And the Byzantine Emperor was not aware of what the Germans wanted, he was simply offended and petty enough to think that any diplomat from what he considered barbarians should be mistreated by default. You're literally using the insults of a diplomat AFTER THE FACT as a reason to why they should be mistreated lol I generally defend the Byzantines, but this obvious arrogance was to their detriment and would no doubt play a role in Western lack of care to its fall. HRE attacks Byzantines. Byzantines attacks HRE, or whoever. Everyone attacks whoever; that's the age. Warring for warring's sake was what Emperors and Kings and Caliphs did. It was the mistreatment of diplomats, people considered to be sacrosanct by all cultures, that makes me wonder whether the Byzantines had their comeuppance coming.
@@stephenjenkins7971 Sir, I think you’re actually braindead. The HRE is attacking the Byzantines in a war the HRE started having never been attacked by the Byzantines before. They fail to defeat the Byzantines in Italy so Otto II sends Liutprand to arrange a marriage so that the Byzantines will concede a Princess and all of Byzantine Italy as a dowry. He gets there and immediately calls Nikephoros a fake Roman,......Nikephoros having returned to Constantinople after a reign of successful campaigns against Muslim Aleppo. What is wrong with you? Who in their sane mind would bend over to the HRE diplomat when they haven’t won a single battle yet are demanding a family member and all of your centuries long held territory in Italy? Liutprand Literally opens with this “My Master did not by force or tyrannically invade the city of Rome; but he freed it from a tyrant, nay from the yoke of Tyrants. Did not the slaves of Women rule over it; or, which is worse and more disgraceful, harlots themselves? Thy power, I fancy, or that of thy predecessors, who in name alone are called Emperors of Romans and are not it in reality, was sleeping at that time.” Calling Berengar II, Liutprand’s own former master and the Byzantines Ally, a Harlot and tyrant while calling the Byzantine Emperors Fake Romans. Continue to Seethe.
I think it's slightly unfair to use liutprand's report as the Main source for byzantine diplomacy as it was obvious that Nikephoros ii had no intention of actually negotiating. If you take the reception given by Alexios i komminos to the men of the first crusade as a comparison, then it seems more like the difference in treatment is more likely difference in motives than a mere '' barbarian'' idea
This is GOLD! Videos about war and battles we can get lots of other places, it's stuff like this and especially the slice-of-life stories about everyday life that keeps me coming back.
I highly recommend Constantine Porphyrogennetos' - The Book of Ceremonies or De Ceremoniis. Shows how, as the practical power of the emperor decreased, court cereomny's increased in important to increase prestige.
I mean that was written after he took back power from Romanos Lekapenos. Leon and Konstantinos really were more educated that most Emperors. Constantine was a Chad, he brought back numerous Roman traditions like Triumphs and gave the senate back its role in ceremony. The book is great thou, cool things like the chant of the Sardinian Soldiers, a chant still sung in Latin on Christmas by the army and the organization for the attempted Reconquista of Crete. Giving Garments with eagles sewed on to the Pechenegs, etc etc.
What an amazing video, the immersion, the music and the detailed stories of both the Abbasid and "barbarian" emissary is very wel explained. It sad that you cannot even do 10% of this in the new DLC. I hope paradox watches their own sponsored videos for inspiration in the future.
As always, you and the invicta team have made a great video, thank you ! There is a book called "The Grand strategy of the Byzantine Empire" by Edward N. Luttwak, I highly recommand it. It talks a lot of their soft power, influence, diplomatic games, and the principles they followed to adapt to new circumstances
I read the book twice several years ago, and although Luttwak does an impressive job considering that he didn’t specialize in Byzantine history prior to writing the book, it is a mess as far as it’s continuity is concerned, and he imposes a lot of modern perspective onto the Romans that they almost certainly didn’t have. I would recommend over that book John Haldon’s books on Byzantine Strategy and Warfare, they are a far better read overall.
I never read that one but I read his earlier one “The Grand Strategy of the Roman Empire” and that one is a masterpiece. I finally understood why the Romans conquered and annexed some areas and left others as client states.
The Byzantine court inspired so much awe that even by the time of the Crusades, the Mamluk Sultanate had palace guards that wielded axes in the same manner of the legendary Varangian guards.
Really loving your new Byzantine stuff. Would would be really good would be to compare Byzantine "troop pools" to the other powers such as the Caliphs and the Normans. Show the differences between stipendiary, obligated, and mercenary troop pools. How did each power generate armed force? The Byzantines had both provincial and central troop pools, as well as mercenaries. The Western "Feudal" powers had stipendiary and obligated troop pools. It throws up different implications on how you use those forces.
I would like to say in 7:25 you should have made the difference between offices and titles well known, because title doesn't mean you get any jurisdiction. Even in the 11th century a lot of the titles were paid for, and they got a stipend, though that stipend never tended to reach up to the amount given at the start. Edit: 17:30 Liutprand of Cremona isn't a really reliable source since he A) had a political agenda, B) this was the second time he had gone to the empire, the first time he was wowed by the empire's welcome. Also, the wine he had been given was probably Retsina(resinated wine, as in with tree resin), which the westerners considered horrible but to Byzantines it was a common enough and enjoyed beverage. Edit 2: 20:31 this wasn't a new law, the application maybe, but laws about not letting certain types of silk not leave the empire, as in high quality silk were there ever since high quality silk could be produced in the empire. It's quite probably that Liutprand tried being cheeky with the silk he tried to get with him and got confiscated legally, as well as the law being applied menacingly to him.
@@Marshal_Rock I'm not saying he tried to steal or anything, it's just that we have laws against exporting high quality silk except as gifts to powerful monarchs from way before the tenth century.
@@thegamingwolf5612 Price, bugs and the perceived lack of content are 3 common complaints. The main one being the price. I for one did not buy it - I kinda saw the writing on the wall when they delayed it.
My labs a very super extra special boy too!!! Hyperprotopansebastohypertatos just doesn't have the same ring as Max but we'll give it a try!! Great video in all seriousness!! Really insightful and beyond interesting, seems politics hasn't changed much.
I’m amazed on the amount of comments shiting on the Byzantine cause of Liutprands propaganda as a diplomat of the HRE. This same man Praised the Byzantine Empire and Emperor in his first visit to the city under King Berengar II.
Constantinople was "Rome", for all intents and purposes. The Byzantines were what was left of the great Roman empire. They continued on as the "surviving" half. During their enormous longevity (more than a thousand years), instead of falling to barbarians like the western Romans, they proved very hard to destroy. They had to deal with countless nations, the powerful Arab expansion and the unstoppable Ottomans' arrival in Europe, to name a few. Always being Europe's buffer to the problematic east and its' threats. Contantinople grew to be greater than Rome. Often mentioned as the greatest city in the world. If big budget movies about the Byzantines became a thing, it could start a new trend of awe inspiring epics. As Greece faced the Persians, Byzantium was destined to stand in the way of the Arabs and the Turks.
In Greece and in general in the Byzantine Empire, there were toilets from 2,000 BC, while in London, toilets were built for the first time in the 19th century .. this says everything about the cultural difference between the West and Greece
In the end, I just feel bad for Liutprand. Feeling really proud of his start up kingdom, going on a cool mission for his king, held hostage, and when he tries to leave, ends up clotheless and out an obscene amount of money
@@ltryderl5978 You don't get it.Treatment was based on context of embassy.During his first visit relations with westerners were keept friendly hence also ambassador was treated accordingly.During 2nd embassy relations were as bad as they are now between USA and Russia and of course it reflected on his 2nd reception.It is naive to look at this one sided and imagine only "Byzantines" behaving like this not to mention that some parts of Liutprand description might also be greatly exaggerated.
@@paprskomet You seem really biased in favor of Byzantium. If Liutbrand was treated even remotely as badly as pointed out in the video you cant fault him for writing a negative report of his visit. Do you expect him to face this abuse and praise his captors afterwards? I dont think neither Russia nor the USA treated eachothers diplomats like that. Thats simply barbaric and unexcusable! If the HRE acted similarly, like you claim, thats equally reprehensible of course!
@@ltryderl5978 Nowhere I am foult him from writting negative report after his experiencies,I understand that-I'm just saying that the reception that Liutprand received must be seen and judged in the context in which his embassy took place.It is quite clear from the comments below the video that out of ignorance of the context many people have misinterpreted what is described in the video to imagine that this is how all Western diplomats were treated and all of the time time which is obviously not really the case. When Liutprand was in Constantinople the first time he received a very different and very warm welcome because at that time there were good relations between the West and the East and Emperor Constantine VII was interested in peace and cooperation. However, this situation had changed completely by the time he went there for the second time.I have not mentioned the USA and Russia in relation to the treatment of the diplomats of the other side, but precisely to outline how bad the relations between Constantinople and the German Emperor were at that time.It was like a cold war that threatened to erupt into a full-blown open war at any moment. Only recently had the kings of the Othonian dynasty followed Charlemagne and started to title themselves as Roman Emperors and their empire(despite the fact that it wasn't even a unified state) as Roman one which was a huge insult and usurpation in the eyes of Constantinople (aka the actual direct successor to the original ancient Roman Empire) which to them was as bizarre as if the president of Germany today were to suddenly start calling himself president of the USA and even be so brazen as to question the legitimacy of the real USA across the ocean and claim that Germany is the real USA not that thing across the sea which they will therefore prefer to call as the Washingtonians instead just to avoid calling them Romans. And it wasn't just about usurping the name-the Western Emperor militarily invaded the territory of Constantinople and its vassals and began to lay claim to its traditional spheres of influence-by fire and sword. Liutprand had experienced hardship from the very beginning, mainly because Emperor Nicephorus had all of this in mind and intended to symbolically kick to the person of his master Otto II (and his co-ruler and successor Otto III) through his person.Constantinople not only did not admit the Western monarch the name "Roman" but even the title of emperor, and throughout Liutprand's visit, it deliberately insultingly referred to him only as "king." The exact goals of Liutprand's mission are disputed by modern historians as it seems his embassy was sent to situation where it vas basically impossible to reach any mutual agreement between both realms as they both had completely opposite desires and needs.Among Liutprand chief tasks was to get for his masters recognition of Constantinople as Roman Emperor for the West (which was to be done mainly in the form of a political match with the Eastern Princess Anna with Otto III) but this Nicephoros was not going to allow soso he gave them a deliberately obscene demand himself as to what he was he asking for in return which he knew they could not meet. It should also be mentioned that not all of the negative experiences Liuprand attributes to Nikephoros's targeted provocations were necessarily genuine mischief.In some cases, Liutprand may have simply misinterpreted traditional Eastern customs and cultural differencies.Much of what he mentions is known independently of him-particularly from the official protocol of the Eastern court, the so-called Book of Ceremonies, created at the behest of Emperor Constantine VII by merging a series of treatises on the conduct of the court in Constantinople from the 6th century to their own times.When Liuprand complains that his embassy was not allowed to travel freely across the city and that they were held isolated and in practical prison while constanly watched and under guard, little did he know that these was orinary procedures prescribed in book of ceremonies as far as 6th century(and known independently also from Roman military manuals) for embassies of hostile foreign states in order to ensure they will not gain any undeserved strategical intel about condition inside city had they be allowed to move as they wished freely.It was not a provocation but ordinarily applied internal safety precaution.He could still be treated more gently though but that depended on person of Emperor and his goals.As already noted-Nikephoros goal was not really peace but to insult western emperor by treating person of his diplomat badly.Emperor Justinian was once harshly criticised back in 6th century by both nobility and common citizenry of Constantinople for allowing a complete movement freedom to ambassador of Sassanid Persia in the city in spite of this common practice and he even shared imperial lodge at the great Hippodrome with him-watching chariot races with him together.This is example of Emperor who decided to ignore standard security precautions in order to achieve friendly conclusions in diplomatic negotiations he held with this ambassador of hostile power. In another instance Liutprand complains on his position during banquet.In his interpretation he was placed to a table too far from the Emperor which in his view was not corresponding to power and importance of his master while nations who were "less important"(Bulgars and Arabs) in his view were given more prestigious positions closer to the Emperor.Once again he was persuaded that this was "surely" meant as an insult to his master but there is pretty big chance it was not really so.Order of banquet was corresponding to prescribed dispositions in Ceremony protocols of Constantine VII and Liutprand was in reality still placed amongst the most prestigiously placed guests.He was 15th from the Emperor but we know that the dinning hall where the banquet was taking place had a room for over 200 guests(!)from eastern sources-on the other hand Liutprand failed to mention how many guets were there on that day.During this feast Emperor ordered servants to gave his some of the best food out of his own imperial table Nikephoros himself had eat.Pretty strange behavior if Nikephoros indeed meant to insult Liutprand intentionally in this case. There are many other instances where Liutprand very conclusively failed to recognize different cultural custom and though instead it was meant as an insult personally aimed on him and his master(for example when he was ordered to dismount his horse in imperial gardens not really because of him as he misunderstood it but because completely anyone,even if "Byzantine" was not allowed to ride on a horse there except Emperor alone). At other place he tries to mock eastern nobles for wearing clothes visibly too old prising western nobles for wearing new ones having no clue that eastern nobles were not wearing old clothes because af being poor as he misinterpret it but because unlike in the west where freshly new clothing was seen as that most valuable,in the east cost of rich ceremonial clothing was seen all the more bigger more old they were.From the same reason also Nikephoros was wearing old clothing("smelling with old age" as Liutprand probably correctly noticed)because it was imperial regalia dress seen as sacred and it could indeed be even several centuries old as these were keept under guard for most of the time in special storage building of the Great palace of Constantinople and dressed only on special occassions. But perhaps most striking and fascinating example of possible cultural misunderstanding on the part of Liutprand is episode with purple clothes Liutprand bought during his embassy but was forced to gave it up in the end.Again,Liutprand had his paranoid universal explanation of intentional provocation for it but he was clearly ignorant about pretty strict sumptuary laws existing in the empire regarding use and trade of purple.When imperial officers did not allowed him to keep it,they only did their job as they should have according to valid,long existing laws.Not only that Liutprand had no right to have such cloathing- he did not even had a right to even attempt to buy it in the first place.He would needed a special permission to do that.Of course Nikephoros could made exception in his case(as Constantine VII had done before)but he decided not to.They took silked purple clothes from him but gave him back all the money he payed for it(in illegal free trade with purple in the Empire strictly prohibited). I will later state directly exchange of reasoning between him and imperial officials as he himself had recorded it.
This isn’t how they treat “Barbarian” ambassadors ya goof lol. This is how they treated ambassadors from an HRE who’s attacking them with the audacity to demand a Princess and that they give up their territory in Italy despite the HRE losing the war. Liutprand then opens with calling them fake Romans and their western ally Harlots. Not surprisingly, Liutprand was treated generously well and even carried to the court by Eunchs and given purple silk clothes when he arrived as an ambassador of the Kingdom of Italy, the Byzantines ally in his first visit. Lol Liutprand even complains in his own account on how the Bulgarian diplomats, also “barbarians” are treated better than him and with respect.
What a great vid! As I watched the part about different roles, David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" came to mind, where today's C-level suite and top managers operate like Byzantine courtiers bestowing lavish job titles, with little actual responsibility, except to make their boss look legit. The more things change, the more they stay the same, I guess.
Charlemagne: *sobbing* "NOOOOOOOOO! I AM AN EMPEROR! I REBUILT THE DESTROYED ROMAN EMPIRE, THAT NOW IS HOLY! THE POPE ITSELF CROWNED ME!" Pope: *sobbing* "IS TRUE! I AM ALSO THE HIGHEST PRELATE OF THE CHRISTIAN WORLD, SITTING ON THE THRONE OF PETER ITSELF!" Chad Byzantine Emperor: "lol, hello king of germans. Nice to see you, bishop of Rome."
technically for Orthodox Christians Pope is just another Patriarch. Funny twist plot, Orthodox Patriarchs do accept the Pope as "First-named among Equals' i.e. in the sense of being named first in an Ecumenical Synod to honour the tradition of Peter founding the Church in Rome, but what they do not accept is him being "more than equal"' in comparison to the rest. But of course the main problem with the Pope is that for the Orthodox, he is just a heretic! LOL! To be noted the Patriarch in Constantinople was never ranking above other Patriarchs, at least within the Church. Orthodoxy has a tradition of democracy based on the belief that the Church of Christ is the collective of its people and thus priests are elected by the people, bishops are elected by the priests and accepted by the people (if the people do not shout "axios" i.e. worthy, a priest or a bishop is not elected), and archbishops and patriarchs are elected by bishops and, well, normally have to be accepted by the people (though this is not the case always, especially today where people do not express opinions on such matters....).
@@theholyinquisition389 LOL! You are trying hard to cope. But sure, feel free to try this at your local police station, go there and start yelling at cops all while wearing their insignia, then calling them "kids who throw a tantrum" when they beat you and arrest you for falsification of insignia. LOL again!
I like how all these (great, don't get me wrong) channel do sponsored content for CK3 Royal Court (as they should since it's a really fun game and I for one welcome our Swedish paradoxan overlords) by explaining the intricacies of the Byzantine empire and court, while in game Byzantium is just 3 English rulers on top of each other, hidden by a silk robe and using a wikipedia to translate all the english anglo-saxon titles and names into greek.
Hey, I mean a paying ad from a major game developer is worth it regardless how relevant it is, lol. Probably payed more than the Raid ads that everyone and their mother does. Also it's fair to note that Paradox will probably do a Eastern Roman Empire centered DLC at some point, CKIII is like the newest of all paradox games so it's still a baby as far as development goes. I really doubt they'll leave such a centerpiece of the Medieval world with just the simple ruleset and vanilla structure it has now. DLCs also build on eachother, so with the new Courtier positions they can add a laundry list of byzantine titles, lol. Anyhow, still an amazing game and great developers. Really neat that they're doing sponsored ads now too and helping out relevant channels on youtube.
Just a very minor nitpick that always bothers me. I hate the Byzantines being relegated to being the "descendants of the Romans". They weren't some tiny remote Roman outpost that managed to survive the storm that collapsed their parent empire (you can argue the Empire of Trebizond was like that for a while). They WERE the Romans, holding onto some of the most core territories surrounding the Roman capital, Constantinople while their West drifted away. This is why they rightfully called themselves the Romans
It was also the wealthier and more urban part of the empire… like you suggest, not at all an outpost. Of course the odd part is that it was predominantly Greek, which caused Latin to ultimately fall away from use. But that was never the intention at the outset and it took centuries to complete. Even the Ottomans considered themselves successors to the Roman Empire… and while that was generally considered a titular succession, I would argue that in some respects Ottoman civilization was closer to their Roman successor than to Eurasian Turkic institutions. The ruling class and culture were entirely new, but they inherited many of the lower-level Roman administrators (because who wouldn’t want an off-the-shelf empire?).
@@vinnieg6161 "Christian Rome" Like the unified Roman Empire that it broke off from wasn't Christian to begin with? "Not even having Rome as it's capital" Rome ceased being a capital of the Empire long before the so-called 'Eastern Empire' was a thing. Trier, Milan, Ravenna, Nicomedia, Sirmium, Byzantium, all served as capitals at some point. "Speaking mostly Greek" How's 'Greek' and 'Roman' mutually exclusive? Greek is a language. "Roman" isn't a language. The Roman Empire had Greek functioning as one of its two co-official languages since the Republican era. The linguistic demographics changed, sure, but what's that got to do with national identity?
@@FreedomFox1 Not to mention Greek was used by the Romans from the time of the republic as essentially a second official language so the switch isn't even that big.
What a beautifully made video. I am so in love with everything about it. The amazing graphical design and the music just blew me away. I loved how well you portrayed the constantinian attitude towards their world neighbors with your excellent source selection. I'm a long time fan and follower and learned sooo much from your content. Thank you.
Appreciate the insight this video gives. Really shows that even the greatest empires were still run by human beings with all their majesty, cruelty, and pettiness. Looking forward to more of these!
If a neighboring kingdom invaded your land, burned some of your cities, killed some of your citizens, but could not conquer it, so sent a diplomat to insult you and demand an marriage alliance where you would just gift them the territory, how should the diplomat be treated?
@@histguy101 I do not claim to be the moral arbiter for conflicts long since ended. Just a comment on the short sightedness of kings and kingdoms as a whole.
There has been a lot of videos about ancient greek units such the Spartan units such as the Royal Spartans and Skiritai, Macedonian units and even Theban units. So far I was not able to find any video or even information on units that Athens had. I would love to see the Athenian units and Athens as a whole in a documentary.
Well athens had its noble Cavalry which got almost destroyed in Peloponnesian war .It was like 300 Spartan guards which were a cavalry force to a long time ago we still dont know.Furthermore ,Athenians used Thracian peltasts to genocide a small city in Boeotia under North Euboea.
Wonder what culture they would develop. What would it's people think and believe, belonging to a country that would exist for almost 3 thousands years.
Towards the end of the Empire there were moves to move away from Roman identity towards Hellenic/Greek identity. This was to court the support of Europe against the Ottomans, didnt work ofc.
PS there are some good reports in Muslim texts on the court ceremonial. See Nadia Maria El Cheikh, "Byzantium Viewed by the Arabs" (Harvard, 2004) as a starter for 10. Arab sources awed as thousands of courtiers were marshalled to guide in ambassadors in uniformed robes, the Mese covered in rugs and flowers, etc.
@@nonnayerbusiness7704 Enrico wasn’t blinded by the Byzantines bruh. He suffered from cortical blindness. This is evident in his signatures as they worsen from 1174 to 1176.
Yeah, while its very reasonable for the Byzantines to be offended at the idea of there being a "Holy Roman Empire", they did themselves no favor by needlessly antagonizing these new kingdoms to the point that they'd be viewed as eternally untrustworthy and thus made it far more easier to justify sacking in the future.
I noticed you like African history topics. As do I. While written records are scarce in some areas where it's mostly oral tradition, it's quite common in others. I'd recommend Aksum, specifically King Kaleb of Aksum. Morocco, the Ivory Coast. Timbuktu, Mali, Ghana, Liberia for a more interesting modern country.
Super special boy: I’m the best! Very super special boy: No, I am! Stranger: Amateurs Both: what was that, punk! The VERY VERY super special boy: Amateurs!
NCIS is produced and some episodes are written by people of the Bellisario family, they use "Belisarius" in the production company logo, and now I understand that "Very Special Agent Anthony Dinozzo" was apparently harking back to a Byzantine court title.
With Europa Universalis IV and the Extended Timeline mod playing as the Byzantine Empire you can become the Holy Roman Emperor and force convert the HRE too. Yeah, you can restore Rome too, but as the video demonstrates the Eastern Empire was much more fun.
Super Extra Special Boy: Hey guys! Very Super Extra Special Boy: Yooooo what's up dude! Super Extra Special Boy: Oh.... I didn't realize you were coming tonight...
Hey can you do a video like this on some of the more modern wars and include in it battle breakdowns like you do in videos such as the "Avenging Varus - Germanic wars" video. I think it would be interesting to see how modern weapons and tactics affect how battles/wars differ from more ancient ones. A couple suggestions I have that I think would be interesting and also have enough public information for you to be able to conduct thorough research would be; the U.S. invasion of Iraq(Baghdad), the U.S. battle to retake Mosul(Baghdad) and i dont know of any specific battles in Afghanistans Kandahar province but i know there was very intense fighting there as well as many U.S. outposts which you could do an interesting video on the strategy behind the location, size, overall location meaning how all the outposts work together to create a perimeter, etc of those outposts. I hope you consider this as i think it would be a really interesting change for the channel while still remaining in the theme of historical battles only just being modern history. anyway keep up the great work you're videos are awesome and very educational.
I'm loving the politics and the court. Question for anyone, how does a territory know it's conquered? How would a town know they are under another lord?
20:00 "Ahah fuck you Barbarians! How dare you call yourselves emperors?" 200 years later: "NOOOOO YOU CAN'T BE PILLAGING US! AAAAAAAAH HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE." LMAO, get rekt.
It must be mentioned that during their meeting, in his public speech, Liutprand called the Nikephoros as emperor of the Greeks, and called Otto as emperor of the Romans in front of the entire royal court of Constantinople. Its a miracle he did not get executed by this blatant public insult to the Byzantine (Roman) state
Good video. This Byzantine soft power is clever and bizarre. They looked more like the Papal court than like the European feudal monarchies of their age. Liutprand's embassy reminds me of Macartney's embassy to China in 1793. Both ambassadors were certain of the power and prestige of their rulers and countries, and had a firm will to deal as equals with a power that, instead, saw them as insignificant Western barbarians. Both Liutprand and Macartney were confined to their lodgings, ignored, humiliated and forced to return home without achieving nothing. Both the Byzantines and imperial China ended up paying a heavy price for having ignored and underestimated "Western barbarians".
Given that they were winning the war they didn’t start, it was an appropriate response. They do end up giving a Princess btw under John Tzimeskes. But with no territorial concessions and the HRE forced to recognize their holdings in Italy.
And yet at the same time, the Roman court is the source of a lot of the cultural developments that fueled the Renaissance. Naturally the Romans looked down on the descendants of the 'barbarians' that burned the Western Roman provinces to the ground at the time of Nikephoros. Remember this was immediately after they had just seized Roman territory too! However, Rome was ultimately the cultural victor, with most of Western Europe imitating their customs (such as adopting Roman rule of law rather than using old Germanic laws, eating with forks, reading Classical texts and the like). Theophanu for instance was a Roman Princess (not born of the purple) wedded to Otto II, and was responsible for developing the Holy Roman Empire in a direction that lead more towards the Rule of Law, emphasizing education and culture as well as the martial subjects for the nobility, and generally guiding the West out of its more 'dark age' habits by making sure the nobility could actually read and write. In the end, the Romans refugees from the fall of Constantinople managed to fan the idea in the West that they were now the children of Rome, and it was their duty to see it continue for all time. Hence to this day, EU law is based upon the foundations written down in Justinian's Codex, and old Germanic legal customs like trial by combat etc are now considered 'barbaric'. Keep in mind that friendship or enmity with Western kingdoms and empires was ever-changing. Emperor Manuel Komnenos was a huge fan of Western traditions that he liked, such as jousting tournaments, and in turn he spread the sport of tzykanion (horse polo) to the West, a game still enjoyed by many to this day. He also married a Frank, as by that time the relationship between the Romans and the Franks were much improved. I imagine any modern Western (or Eastern for that matter) country would be naturally pissed too if someone took some of their territory, then dared to declare that they wanted 'peace' afterwards without returning what they had stolen.
@@paprskomet presumably, or perhaps under Justinian (not sure if any maps from Trajan's time would have survived Antiquity), though I cannot find the reference now
@@jaojao1768 I guess it would be under Trajan since they were not ignorant of extend of empire at that time and also because they did not made any division between clasical Roman empire and what is modernly called as "Byzantine" empire.Sometimes(but not always)they did make a difference between pre-christian Roman empire and post Constantinian Christian Roman Empire but even like this Empire was bigger in time before Justinian during several emperors.It would only work with Justinian in case Roman east was meant specifically but thinking about it like this is not very common in eastern Roman sources.Most of the time awarness of Roman west and East as single administrative entities of one Roman world existed for relatively short time in 5th century and it is mostly this century only when eastern writers use designations like "western Romans/Eastern Romans".
I forget who it was, but supposedly a German emissary accidentally called Nikephoros “king of the Greeks” and basically got the crap kicked out of him and then was thrown in jail.
Leter of the Pope did so,he only delivered it.But pope did it intentionally as insult and Nikephoros believed it was actually idea of western Emperor that Pope alone would not dare to do it.
Eastern Romans and especially Eastern Roman Emperors hated a lot being related to Greeks and questioning their Roman-ness, since they were in fact the Romans. The only thing that changed was the language that in 800 AD changed from Latin to Greek.
So when our jealous neighbors come over, we'll drop an iPhone by accident and say things like "How could you be so clumsy, that's your 4th iPhone already, now I'm going to buy a new one." kind of drama
Ofcourse the Emperor should treat him like that, in order to show to his leader that he is nothing more that a leader of barbarians and ofcourse not legitimate Roman Emperor! Roman Empire survived only in the Greek East!
Probably not, but some crusaders and their Venetian allies would have had kin who were part of Constantinople's massacre of the Latins twenty years before.
You can build your own Golden Throne room with "The Royal Court" expansion for Crusader Kings III: play.crusaderkings.com/Invicta
@Cannon530YTOO Well it is a 22 minute infomercial for a video game so...
as a man once said "You might be a power but not a world one" "Oh yeah? Whats the Difference?" *"Presentation!"*
I had a feeling Crusader Kings was the reason why you made this video Invicta. Kings and Generals have made a couple of video's about the courts of various European n Middle Eastern Kingdoms. I like this video.
What's the intro song/chant you guys used, it's really beautiful
@Cannon530YTOO the dislikes were from Liutprand fans.
Just imagine, the Emperor grants you the title of Hyperprotopansebastohypertatos, and every time you go to a formal meeting you have to introduce yourself as the "Very Super Extra Special Boy", that sounds like a punishment rather than a cool title lol!
It sounds good in Greek tho. Hyper-first-all-respected-ultimate. with all these superlatives it sounds kinda funny but cool in a way
It reminds me of when you try to log into an account but you forgot your password and email but you liked the name so you use it again when creating a new one but you put "super" or "very special" in front of it and that happens like 10 times.
@@Μπρο Ok yeah that's way better than Special boy lmao
The Very Super Extra Special Boy sounds like he has to wear a helmet at all times, comes to court in the short chariot and gets paid in crayons.
@@Μπρο Lord Jah Jah Boris 😂😂
"After all, these were the petty kings who played with toy crowns amidst the ashes of a ruined Western empire."
That sentence deserves a medal.
or maybe a crown...
@@photinodecay As long as it's not a toy one
@@shorewall wtf
@@shorewall bruh
@@shorewall The killing of men by the hand of the crusaders, specially ones of same faith, and of only different perceptions, and you thank God? THE most forgiving being there is?
Please... Killings and massacres and genocides and crimes as such aren't tollerated even by atheists! These are all horrible things! People suffered!
Don't comemorate people's deaths. End of rant.
The Byzantine court makes the plot of Game of Thrones look like a child's play.
Even any historical kingdom make GoT a child's play TBH
@@Marshal_Rock got is a extremely simplified version of feudal Europe
@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl a really boring simplified version
@@Marshal_Rock indeed. Important players in feudal politics like the church and the urban burgers were completely ignored and don't get me started on how simplified the feudal Nobility system is
The show is crap compared to the books, what do you expect
The breaking expensive vases “accidentally” to show how little they cared had me dying laughing
There is an ancedote like that in ancient China, too. An aristocrat decided to show his rival an ornament coral to display his wealth. The said rival was not only unimpressed, he proceeded to smash it apart, then brought out his collection of bigger corals and told the aristocrat to pick one as a replacement.
"Super Extra Special Boy" was the honorable title granted to me by my mother.
Actually the "special "is translated wrong.Its Super Extra Respected Ultimate ".
Abbasid guests: "Ahhh, Hasan! Welcome! How's the Caliph doing??"
Western guests: Left in rain
and they deserved every drop
@Chris Walker Westerners weren't treated like shit. This was Luitprand's 2nd visit to Constantinople. In the first visit, he was treated like a prince in every way, and praised the experience, the city, the emperor(at the time, Constantine Porphyrogenitus), etc.
His 2nd visit requires context. He was acting as ambassador for the king of the Franks, who had been invading Byzantine territory, burning cities, etc, in an effort to get the Byzantines to relinquish their Italian provinces. When this failed, they asked for a wife, in an effort to be gifted Byzantine Italy as a dowry. Luitprand went to Constantinople to make this demand, then insulted the emperor, and called him "Roman only in name, and not in fact." He also called the Byzantines slaves of women or something to that effect. The emperor was now Nikephorus II, a grim, unsympathetic, hardened military man, who was pissed about the Frank's audacious behavior and crimes against Byzantine Italy.
His mission failed, and, as a diplomat, he wrote a very hyperbolic diatribe on his experience to save face, as his king was probably very unhappy, and his reputation was on the line.
Luitprand served as a diplomat for several different rulers of different kingdoms, like a free agent.
@@joek600 u get that u deserve....barbarian
@@histguy101 The kingdom that Lutiprand served wasn't a frankish one. It was the germans under the German Kaiser Otto the Great. Otto also wasn't burning cities at all. He didn't have the siege engines in italy to actually take the eastern roman cities. He delegated the war of Pandulf Ironhead who was the Lombard prince of Benevento. Otto didn't seek a byzantine wife for his son as a way to recieve southern italy as a dowry. He wanted a wife to legitimize his rule of the western empire and his imperial title (which he defacto was).
Apart from mentioned splendour that the Constantinople court was swimming in, Eastern Romans also went with great effort to point out their technological supremacy. We have accounts of marvelous engineering feats employed to astonish the envoys, such as golden trees with little robot birds that were moving and even singing or of an imperial throne that would mechanically raise itself high above the ground, so that the emperor could look down on ambassadors! It's a real shame that none of Eastern Roman mechanical devices survived to this day. They are certainly marvelous for both their and our times!
Can you share name of articles or videos talking about these? Curious to read about this
Following the thread for more info
@@1992zorro There seems to have been two sets of automata. The first was built for Theophilos, but was melted down by a cash-strapped Michael II. The second seems to have appeared around the time of Constantine VII. Both appear in a number of the 10th c. sources (Theophanes Continuatus, Leo Grammaticus, Symeon Magister) although de Ceremoniis seems to have one of the fullest descriptions. Liutprand of Cremona, a bishop who travelled to Constantinople in the tenth century also mentioned roaring mechanical lions at the imperial throne. See G. Brett, 'The Automata in the Byzantine "Throne of Solomon"', Speculum 29.3 (1954), pp. 477-87
Liutprand "In front of the emperor’s throne was set up a tree of gilded bronze, its branches filled with birds, likewise made of bronze gilded over, and these emitted cries appropriate to their species. Now the emperor’s throne was made in such a cunning manner that at one moment it was down on the ground, while at another it rose higher and was to be seen up in the air. This throne was of immense size and was, as it were, guarded by lions, made either of bronze or wood covered with gold, which struck the ground with their tails and roared with open mouth and quivering tongue. Leaning on the shoulders of two eunuchs, I was brought into the emperor’s presence. As I came up the lions began to roar and the birds to twitter, each according to its kind, but I was moved neither by fear nor astonishment . . . After I had done obeisance to the Emperor by prostrating myself three times, I lifted my head, and behold! the man whom I had just seen sitting at a moderate height from the ground had now changed his vestments and was sitting as high as the ceiling of the hall."
This is a great short article: historynewsnetwork.org/article/169277
The romans had that much earlier. Not to mention it was done during ancient greek times. Not much of a development. Millennium old technology
I can't help but feel really sorry for Luitprand he was an ambassador and the Byzantine Emperor treated him poorly. All just to unsettle him. Terrible. Great video.
Bruh, he went there to intentionally stir up shit cause he was sent by the HRE. Liutprand praises the Empire, the Emperor Constantine and the City in his first visit under King Berengar II. His 2nd visit was as an ambassador for Otto II so he could get a Byzantine Wife. He doubly dogs on the Empire to save face cause his mission was a failure.
@@tylerellis9097 Bruh, that's not "intentionally stirring shit" anymore than what every court and kingdom does in this time period. It simply is braindead to needlessly antagonize other peoples unless you're in a supreme position of strength, and as we see, while the Byzantines often were, this arrogance meant that when they were down -it was much easier for everyone to kick them while they were down.
In a fashion, the Byzantines were their own worst enemy. This is a far cry from some of the Byzantines best moments in using their wealth and prestige to turn the tables like getting the Varangians at the cost of a Byzantine Princess, or using the First Crusade to buy time for the Empire to get some breathing room, etc.
@@stephenjenkins7971 He Literally calls Nikephoros, the Byzantine Emperor, a Ethiopian And a Rapid animal while demanding a Wife for Otto II and that the Byzantine Empire give up its Italian territory.
You don’t believe me? Then here ya go Liutprands own Words. en.wikisource.org/wiki/Select_Historical_Documents_of_the_Middle_Ages/Appendix
Educate yourself before you shit on the Byzantines. The HRE was literally attacking the Byzantine empire when he was sent, having recently failed to take Bari.
Holy Roman Empire attacking the Byzantines while they were fighting the Muslim Emirates, who’s the asshole here lol.
@@tylerellis9097 Bruh, your own source literally says otherwise. This was the diplomat's report on the Court of Constantinople; and the diplomat, after being thoroughly humiliated and mistreated long before ever reaching the Byzantine Emperor, was pretty justified in making some pretty screwed up insults. He never said that to the Emperor's face. And the Byzantine Emperor was not aware of what the Germans wanted, he was simply offended and petty enough to think that any diplomat from what he considered barbarians should be mistreated by default.
You're literally using the insults of a diplomat AFTER THE FACT as a reason to why they should be mistreated lol
I generally defend the Byzantines, but this obvious arrogance was to their detriment and would no doubt play a role in Western lack of care to its fall.
HRE attacks Byzantines. Byzantines attacks HRE, or whoever. Everyone attacks whoever; that's the age. Warring for warring's sake was what Emperors and Kings and Caliphs did. It was the mistreatment of diplomats, people considered to be sacrosanct by all cultures, that makes me wonder whether the Byzantines had their comeuppance coming.
@@stephenjenkins7971 Sir, I think you’re actually braindead. The HRE is attacking the Byzantines in a war the HRE started having never been attacked by the Byzantines before. They fail to defeat the Byzantines in Italy so Otto II sends Liutprand to arrange a marriage so that the Byzantines will concede a Princess and all of Byzantine Italy as a dowry. He gets there and immediately calls Nikephoros a fake Roman,......Nikephoros having returned to Constantinople after a reign of successful campaigns against Muslim Aleppo.
What is wrong with you? Who in their sane mind would bend over to the HRE diplomat when they haven’t won a single battle yet are demanding a family member and all of your centuries long held territory in Italy?
Liutprand Literally opens with this “My Master did not by force or tyrannically invade the city of Rome; but he freed it from a tyrant, nay from the yoke of Tyrants. Did not the slaves of Women rule over it; or, which is worse and more disgraceful, harlots themselves? Thy power, I fancy, or that of thy predecessors, who in name alone are called Emperors of Romans and are not it in reality, was sleeping at that time.”
Calling Berengar II, Liutprand’s own former master and the Byzantines Ally, a Harlot and tyrant while calling the Byzantine Emperors Fake Romans.
Continue to Seethe.
Imagine a Byzantine RUclipsr making a tier list video of kingdoms.
"All westerners are shit, the Caliphat and the Persians are respectable, but the the only S+ Tier is, of course our mighty empire."
“All F tier, sad German pretenders”
You should look into the Byzantine recruitment ceremonies of Arab mercenaries, the descriptions of those events are WILD.
Do tell a little of that here please!
^
Don't leave us hanging, atleast give a link. I'm interested.
Any links or information on that
Or that time Grand Prince Vladimir the Great's envoys went to Constantinople after Vlad expressed interest in Christianity.
This was really interesting, hope to see more content about what we know of politics and diplomacy in the ancient world.
I think it's slightly unfair to use liutprand's report as the Main source for byzantine diplomacy as it was obvious that Nikephoros ii had no intention of actually negotiating. If you take the reception given by Alexios i komminos to the men of the first crusade as a comparison, then it seems more like the difference in treatment is more likely difference in motives than a mere '' barbarian'' idea
Exactly
@علي ياسر wrong Nicephorus. That was Nicephorus I, not Nicephorus II
@علي ياسر arguably the first nicephoros was worse though 😀
This is GOLD! Videos about war and battles we can get lots of other places, it's stuff like this and especially the slice-of-life stories about everyday life that keeps me coming back.
I highly recommend Constantine Porphyrogennetos' - The Book of Ceremonies or De Ceremoniis. Shows how, as the practical power of the emperor decreased, court cereomny's increased in important to increase prestige.
I mean that was written after he took back power from Romanos Lekapenos. Leon and Konstantinos really were more educated that most Emperors.
Constantine was a Chad, he brought back numerous Roman traditions like Triumphs and gave the senate back its role in ceremony.
The book is great thou, cool things like the chant of the Sardinian Soldiers, a chant still sung in Latin on Christmas by the army and the organization for the attempted Reconquista of Crete. Giving Garments with eagles sewed on to the Pechenegs, etc etc.
There is no decreasing of the imperial power
What an amazing video, the immersion, the music and the detailed stories of both the Abbasid and "barbarian" emissary is very wel explained. It sad that you cannot even do 10% of this in the new DLC. I hope paradox watches their own sponsored videos for inspiration in the future.
no need for quotes on the barbarian 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣sorry but i had to
18:38 That just the description of any player created CK3 character.
As always, you and the invicta team have made a great video, thank you ! There is a book called "The Grand strategy of the Byzantine Empire" by Edward N. Luttwak, I highly recommand it. It talks a lot of their soft power, influence, diplomatic games, and the principles they followed to adapt to new circumstances
Awesome recommendation! I'd love to try and adopt it into a series of videos
Where could i find a copy?
I read the book twice several years ago, and although Luttwak does an impressive job considering that he didn’t specialize in Byzantine history prior to writing the book, it is a mess as far as it’s continuity is concerned, and he imposes a lot of modern perspective onto the Romans that they almost certainly didn’t have.
I would recommend over that book John Haldon’s books on Byzantine Strategy and Warfare, they are a far better read overall.
I never read that one but I read his earlier one “The Grand Strategy of the Roman Empire” and that one is a masterpiece. I finally understood why the Romans conquered and annexed some areas and left others as client states.
@@bukeleliberty5517 I'll have to check it
The Byzantine court inspired so much awe that even by the time of the Crusades, the Mamluk Sultanate had palace guards that wielded axes in the same manner of the legendary Varangian guards.
I am Persian but I am fascinated by the Eastern Roman Empire and truly admire Constantinople
Same thing from "the other side", bro. We still name kids with the names of Persian emperors in italy.
Persians and Greeks are the best combo
Imagine being titled the "super extra special boy" only to have the guy one rank above you be titled the "very super extra special boy" lmaoooooo
Really loving your new Byzantine stuff. Would would be really good would be to compare Byzantine "troop pools" to the other powers such as the Caliphs and the Normans. Show the differences between stipendiary, obligated, and mercenary troop pools. How did each power generate armed force? The Byzantines had both provincial and central troop pools, as well as mercenaries. The Western "Feudal" powers had stipendiary and obligated troop pools. It throws up different implications on how you use those forces.
bump
I would like to say in 7:25 you should have made the difference between offices and titles well known, because title doesn't mean you get any jurisdiction. Even in the 11th century a lot of the titles were paid for, and they got a stipend, though that stipend never tended to reach up to the amount given at the start.
Edit: 17:30 Liutprand of Cremona isn't a really reliable source since he A) had a political agenda, B) this was the second time he had gone to the empire, the first time he was wowed by the empire's welcome. Also, the wine he had been given was probably Retsina(resinated wine, as in with tree resin), which the westerners considered horrible but to Byzantines it was a common enough and enjoyed beverage.
Edit 2: 20:31 this wasn't a new law, the application maybe, but laws about not letting certain types of silk not leave the empire, as in high quality silk were there ever since high quality silk could be produced in the empire. It's quite probably that Liutprand tried being cheeky with the silk he tried to get with him and got confiscated legally, as well as the law being applied menacingly to him.
A barbarian trying to steal silk from Constantinople...
@@Marshal_Rock I'm not saying he tried to steal or anything, it's just that we have laws against exporting high quality silk except as gifts to powerful monarchs from way before the tenth century.
They took the clothes he arrived in. So not quite.
@@zarni000 I think we can trust that part as much as we can trust his description of Nikephoros Phokas. As in it being total bullshit.
@@axeltenveils6816 oh I think we can. Nikephoras was a known dick
I have depicted many of these instances of the great palace ceremonies on my graphic novels. Quite hard to do though without many references.
You should concentrate more on historical accuracy👌
Omg I love your comic book, really well done :D
Damn this video looks gorgeous. Tried out the dlc in CK3 and it immersea me even deeper in my greek-style court
This only cement the idea that there needs to be a Byzantine flavor pack for ck3
Your wishes will be attended 😊
Ah yes, a good DLC from a good game results in a good video from a good channel.
49% percent positive reviews from that “good dlc” lol.
@@heliosdromus7231 at least the video and channel is good lol
@@Solis04
Oh I agree - the channel and the video is great.
@@thegamingwolf5612
Price, bugs and the perceived lack of content are 3 common complaints. The main one being the price.
I for one did not buy it - I kinda saw the writing on the wall when they delayed it.
We love to see it
My labs a very super extra special boy too!!! Hyperprotopansebastohypertatos just doesn't have the same ring as Max but we'll give it a try!!
Great video in all seriousness!! Really insightful and beyond interesting, seems politics hasn't changed much.
I’m amazed on the amount of comments shiting on the Byzantine cause of Liutprands propaganda as a diplomat of the HRE.
This same man Praised the Byzantine Empire and Emperor in his first visit to the city under King Berengar II.
Constantinople was "Rome", for all intents and purposes. The Byzantines were what was left of the great Roman empire. They continued on as the "surviving" half. During their enormous longevity (more than a thousand years), instead of falling to barbarians like the western Romans, they proved very hard to destroy. They had to deal with countless nations, the powerful Arab expansion and the unstoppable Ottomans' arrival in Europe, to name a few. Always being Europe's buffer to the problematic east and its' threats. Contantinople grew to be greater than Rome. Often mentioned as the greatest city in the world. If big budget movies about the Byzantines became a thing, it could start a new trend of awe inspiring epics. As Greece faced the Persians, Byzantium was destined to stand in the way of the Arabs and the Turks.
I love the exploration of niche history like this and this was beautifully written.
Fascinating! I have struggled to find books that go into Byzantine history or culture
I've never heard diplomacy called a "pissing contest" lol
Dick measuring contest, one upsmanship, there are many ways to describe essentially the same idea
The Inbredistani call it "spray & pray"
@@rosiehawtrey thats just nasty lol
In Greece and in general in the Byzantine Empire, there were toilets from 2,000 BC, while in London, toilets were built for the first time in the 19th century .. this says everything about the cultural difference between the West and Greece
100%
"Super extra special boy" will be my next job titel. I need that in my CV.
In the end, I just feel bad for Liutprand. Feeling really proud of his start up kingdom, going on a cool mission for his king, held hostage, and when he tries to leave, ends up clotheless and out an obscene amount of money
On his first embassy he got it all completely oppositely and gave exited "review" of court at Constantinople.
@@paprskomet Maybe because at that time he was actually treated like a human being?
@@ltryderl5978 You don't get it.Treatment was based on context of embassy.During his first visit relations with westerners were keept friendly hence also ambassador was treated accordingly.During 2nd embassy relations were as bad as they are now between USA and Russia and of course it reflected on his 2nd reception.It is naive to look at this one sided and imagine only "Byzantines" behaving like this not to mention that some parts of Liutprand description might also be greatly exaggerated.
@@paprskomet You seem really biased in favor of Byzantium. If Liutbrand was treated even remotely as badly as pointed out in the video you cant fault him for writing a negative report of his visit. Do you expect him to face this abuse and praise his captors afterwards? I dont think neither Russia nor the USA treated eachothers diplomats like that. Thats simply barbaric and unexcusable! If the HRE acted similarly, like you claim, thats equally reprehensible of course!
@@ltryderl5978
Nowhere I am foult him from writting negative report after his experiencies,I understand that-I'm just saying that the reception that Liutprand received must be seen and judged in the context in which his embassy took place.It is quite clear from the comments below the video that out of ignorance of the context many people have misinterpreted what is described in the video to imagine that this is how all Western diplomats were treated and all of the time time which is obviously not really the case. When Liutprand was in Constantinople the first time he received a very different and very warm welcome because at that time there were good relations between the West and the East and Emperor Constantine VII was interested in peace and cooperation.
However, this situation had changed completely by the time he went there for the second time.I have not mentioned the USA and Russia in relation to the treatment of the diplomats of the other side, but precisely to outline how bad the relations between Constantinople and the German Emperor were at that time.It was like a cold war that threatened to erupt into a full-blown open war at any moment. Only recently had the kings of the Othonian dynasty followed Charlemagne and started to title themselves as Roman Emperors and their empire(despite the fact that it wasn't even a unified state) as Roman one which was a huge insult and usurpation in the eyes of Constantinople (aka the actual direct successor to the original ancient Roman Empire) which to them was as bizarre as if the president of Germany today were to suddenly start calling himself president of the USA and even be so brazen as to question the legitimacy of the real USA across the ocean and claim that Germany is the real USA not that thing across the sea which they will therefore prefer to call as the Washingtonians instead just to avoid calling them Romans. And it wasn't just about usurping the name-the Western Emperor militarily invaded the territory of Constantinople and its vassals and began to lay claim to its traditional spheres of influence-by fire and sword.
Liutprand had experienced hardship from the very beginning, mainly because Emperor Nicephorus had all of this in mind and intended to symbolically kick to the person of his master Otto II (and his co-ruler and successor Otto III) through his person.Constantinople not only did not admit the Western monarch the name "Roman" but even the title of emperor, and throughout Liutprand's visit, it deliberately insultingly referred to him only as "king." The exact goals of Liutprand's mission are disputed by modern historians as it seems his embassy was sent to situation where it vas basically impossible to reach any mutual agreement between both realms as they both had completely opposite desires and needs.Among Liutprand chief tasks was to get for his masters recognition of Constantinople as Roman Emperor for the West (which was to be done mainly in the form of a political match with the Eastern Princess Anna with Otto III) but this Nicephoros was not going to allow soso he gave them a deliberately obscene demand himself as to what he was he asking for in return which he knew they could not meet.
It should also be mentioned that not all of the negative experiences Liuprand attributes to Nikephoros's targeted provocations were necessarily genuine mischief.In some cases, Liutprand may have simply misinterpreted traditional Eastern customs and cultural differencies.Much of what he mentions is known independently of him-particularly from the official protocol of the Eastern court, the so-called Book of Ceremonies, created at the behest of Emperor Constantine VII by merging a series of treatises on the conduct of the court in Constantinople from the 6th century to their own times.When Liuprand complains that his embassy was not allowed to travel freely across the city and that they were held isolated and in practical prison while constanly watched and under guard, little did he know that these was orinary procedures prescribed in book of ceremonies as far as 6th century(and known independently also from Roman military manuals) for embassies of hostile foreign states in order to ensure they will not gain any undeserved strategical intel about condition inside city had they be allowed to move as they wished freely.It was not a provocation but ordinarily applied internal safety precaution.He could still be treated more gently though but that depended on person of Emperor and his goals.As already noted-Nikephoros goal was not really peace but to insult western emperor by treating person of his diplomat badly.Emperor Justinian was once harshly criticised back in 6th century by both nobility and common citizenry of Constantinople for allowing a complete movement freedom to ambassador of Sassanid Persia in the city in spite of this common practice and he even shared imperial lodge at the great Hippodrome with him-watching chariot races with him together.This is example of Emperor who decided to ignore standard security precautions in order to achieve friendly conclusions in diplomatic negotiations he held with this ambassador of hostile power.
In another instance Liutprand complains on his position during banquet.In his interpretation he was placed to a table too far from the Emperor which in his view was not corresponding to power and importance of his master while nations who were "less important"(Bulgars and Arabs) in his view were given more prestigious positions closer to the Emperor.Once again he was persuaded that this was "surely" meant as an insult to his master but there is pretty big chance it was not really so.Order of banquet was corresponding to prescribed dispositions in Ceremony protocols of Constantine VII and Liutprand was in reality still placed amongst the most prestigiously placed guests.He was 15th from the Emperor but we know that the dinning hall where the banquet was taking place had a room for over 200 guests(!)from eastern sources-on the other hand Liutprand failed to mention how many guets were there on that day.During this feast Emperor ordered servants to gave his some of the best food out of his own imperial table Nikephoros himself had eat.Pretty strange behavior if Nikephoros indeed meant to insult Liutprand intentionally in this case.
There are many other instances where Liutprand very conclusively failed to recognize different cultural custom and though instead it was meant as an insult personally aimed on him and his master(for example when he was ordered to dismount his horse in imperial gardens not really because of him as he misunderstood it but because completely anyone,even if "Byzantine" was not allowed to ride on a horse there except Emperor alone).
At other place he tries to mock eastern nobles for wearing clothes visibly too old prising western nobles for wearing new ones having no clue that eastern nobles were not wearing old clothes because af being poor as he misinterpret it but because unlike in the west where freshly new clothing was seen as that most valuable,in the east cost of rich ceremonial clothing was seen all the more bigger more old they were.From the same reason also Nikephoros was wearing old clothing("smelling with old age" as Liutprand probably correctly noticed)because it was imperial regalia dress seen as sacred and it could indeed be even several centuries old as these were keept under guard for most of the time in special storage building of the Great palace of Constantinople and dressed only on special occassions.
But perhaps most striking and fascinating example of possible cultural misunderstanding on the part of Liutprand is episode with purple clothes Liutprand bought during his embassy but was forced to gave it up in the end.Again,Liutprand had his paranoid universal explanation of intentional provocation for it but he was clearly ignorant about pretty strict sumptuary laws existing in the empire regarding use and trade of purple.When imperial officers did not allowed him to keep it,they only did their job as they should have according to valid,long existing laws.Not only that Liutprand had no right to have such cloathing- he did not even had a right to even attempt to buy it in the first place.He would needed a special permission to do that.Of course Nikephoros could made exception in his case(as Constantine VII had done before)but he decided not to.They took silked purple clothes from him but gave him back all the money he payed for it(in illegal free trade with purple in the Empire strictly prohibited).
I will later state directly exchange of reasoning between him and imperial officials as he himself had recorded it.
The way they treat Barbarian ambassadors is a level of pettiness that modern men can never replicate.
Thank God for the 4th Crusade.
@@shorewall Satanic
Being petty is a greekoid mindset
A sad part of the eastern rome
@@huanquocmanh416 What do you mean Greekoid
This isn’t how they treat “Barbarian” ambassadors ya goof lol. This is how they treated ambassadors from an HRE who’s attacking them with the audacity to demand a Princess and that they give up their territory in Italy despite the HRE losing the war. Liutprand then opens with calling them fake Romans and their western ally Harlots.
Not surprisingly, Liutprand was treated generously well and even carried to the court by Eunchs and given purple silk clothes when he arrived as an ambassador of the Kingdom of Italy, the Byzantines ally in his first visit.
Lol Liutprand even complains in his own account on how the Bulgarian diplomats, also “barbarians” are treated better than him and with respect.
What a great vid! As I watched the part about different roles, David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" came to mind, where today's C-level suite and top managers operate like Byzantine courtiers bestowing lavish job titles, with little actual responsibility, except to make their boss look legit. The more things change, the more they stay the same, I guess.
It was a matter of technicality; only those with titles could enter the palace to address the emperor directly.
Would be great to have a video only on the list of enemies the byzantines faced over the years
Nice video, some interesting parallels come to mind with the Chinese dynasties for a lot of this tbh
I love this channel, watch in between classes every time I can
Charlemagne: *sobbing* "NOOOOOOOOO! I AM AN EMPEROR! I REBUILT THE DESTROYED ROMAN EMPIRE, THAT NOW IS HOLY! THE POPE ITSELF CROWNED ME!"
Pope: *sobbing* "IS TRUE! I AM ALSO THE HIGHEST PRELATE OF THE CHRISTIAN WORLD, SITTING ON THE THRONE OF PETER ITSELF!"
Chad Byzantine Emperor: "lol, hello king of germans. Nice to see you, bishop of Rome."
Loved how they treated Luitprand, that was a 10/10 treatment for barbarians.
Ah, the mudhutters are at it again.
technically for Orthodox Christians Pope is just another Patriarch. Funny twist plot, Orthodox Patriarchs do accept the Pope as "First-named among Equals' i.e. in the sense of being named first in an Ecumenical Synod to honour the tradition of Peter founding the Church in Rome, but what they do not accept is him being "more than equal"' in comparison to the rest. But of course the main problem with the Pope is that for the Orthodox, he is just a heretic! LOL! To be noted the Patriarch in Constantinople was never ranking above other Patriarchs, at least within the Church. Orthodoxy has a tradition of democracy based on the belief that the Church of Christ is the collective of its people and thus priests are elected by the people, bishops are elected by the priests and accepted by the people (if the people do not shout "axios" i.e. worthy, a priest or a bishop is not elected), and archbishops and patriarchs are elected by bishops and, well, normally have to be accepted by the people (though this is not the case always, especially today where people do not express opinions on such matters....).
More like the other way around. Nikephoros got called King of the Greeks and threw a tantrum over that.
@@theholyinquisition389 LOL! You are trying hard to cope. But sure, feel free to try this at your local police station, go there and start yelling at cops all while wearing their insignia, then calling them "kids who throw a tantrum" when they beat you and arrest you for falsification of insignia. LOL again!
I like how all these (great, don't get me wrong) channel do sponsored content for CK3 Royal Court (as they should since it's a really fun game and I for one welcome our Swedish paradoxan overlords) by explaining the intricacies of the Byzantine empire and court, while in game Byzantium is just 3 English rulers on top of each other, hidden by a silk robe and using a wikipedia to translate all the english anglo-saxon titles and names into greek.
Hey, I mean a paying ad from a major game developer is worth it regardless how relevant it is, lol. Probably payed more than the Raid ads that everyone and their mother does. Also it's fair to note that Paradox will probably do a Eastern Roman Empire centered DLC at some point, CKIII is like the newest of all paradox games so it's still a baby as far as development goes. I really doubt they'll leave such a centerpiece of the Medieval world with just the simple ruleset and vanilla structure it has now. DLCs also build on eachother, so with the new Courtier positions they can add a laundry list of byzantine titles, lol. Anyhow, still an amazing game and great developers. Really neat that they're doing sponsored ads now too and helping out relevant channels on youtube.
It fills me heart with joy that companies like Paradox Interactive are sponsoring historical content creators like yourself :)
Just a very minor nitpick that always bothers me. I hate the Byzantines being relegated to being the "descendants of the Romans".
They weren't some tiny remote Roman outpost that managed to survive the storm that collapsed their parent empire (you can argue the Empire of Trebizond was like that for a while). They WERE the Romans, holding onto some of the most core territories surrounding the Roman capital, Constantinople while their West drifted away.
This is why they rightfully called themselves the Romans
Totally agree
A Christian Rome speaking mostly Greek and not even having Rome as capital. Seems obvious to me why we gave Eastern Rome a different name.
It was also the wealthier and more urban part of the empire… like you suggest, not at all an outpost. Of course the odd part is that it was predominantly Greek, which caused Latin to ultimately fall away from use. But that was never the intention at the outset and it took centuries to complete.
Even the Ottomans considered themselves successors to the Roman Empire… and while that was generally considered a titular succession, I would argue that in some respects Ottoman civilization was closer to their Roman successor than to Eurasian Turkic institutions. The ruling class and culture were entirely new, but they inherited many of the lower-level Roman administrators (because who wouldn’t want an off-the-shelf empire?).
@@vinnieg6161
"Christian Rome"
Like the unified Roman Empire that it broke off from wasn't Christian to begin with?
"Not even having Rome as it's capital"
Rome ceased being a capital of the Empire long before the so-called 'Eastern Empire' was a thing. Trier, Milan, Ravenna, Nicomedia, Sirmium, Byzantium, all served as capitals at some point.
"Speaking mostly Greek"
How's 'Greek' and 'Roman' mutually exclusive? Greek is a language. "Roman" isn't a language. The Roman Empire had Greek functioning as one of its two co-official languages since the Republican era.
The linguistic demographics changed, sure, but what's that got to do with national identity?
@@FreedomFox1 Not to mention Greek was used by the Romans from the time of the republic as essentially a second official language so the switch isn't even that big.
What a beautifully made video. I am so in love with everything about it. The amazing graphical design and the music just blew me away. I loved how well you portrayed the constantinian attitude towards their world neighbors with your excellent source selection.
I'm a long time fan and follower and learned sooo much from your content. Thank you.
Appreciate the insight this video gives. Really shows that even the greatest empires were still run by human beings with all their majesty, cruelty, and pettiness.
Looking forward to more of these!
If a neighboring kingdom invaded your land, burned some of your cities, killed some of your citizens, but could not conquer it, so sent a diplomat to insult you and demand an marriage alliance where you would just gift them the territory, how should the diplomat be treated?
@@histguy101 I do not claim to be the moral arbiter for conflicts long since ended. Just a comment on the short sightedness of kings and kingdoms as a whole.
with the tier list you used in the beginning, i can imagine that in the eyes of roman society at that time the normans would have ranked pretty high
You and your team are the best. This content is pure gold, pure gold!!!
Amazing video as always! If it interests you enough to research it, I would love to see a video regarding the IRA and The Troubles and more.
There has been a lot of videos about ancient greek units such the Spartan units such as the Royal Spartans and Skiritai, Macedonian units and even Theban units.
So far I was not able to find any video or even information on units that Athens had. I would love to see the Athenian units and Athens as a whole in a documentary.
Well athens had its noble Cavalry which got almost destroyed in Peloponnesian war .It was like 300 Spartan guards which were a cavalry force to a long time ago we still dont know.Furthermore ,Athenians used Thracian peltasts to genocide a small city in Boeotia under North Euboea.
I love the subtle movements in the video! Keep moving the channel towards that direction
Always wondered how they would of adapted if the Empire survived into the 21st century.
They would become a sort of a Greece with the power of Turkey. Holding most of Anatolia and Greece but losing all ethnic minoritories including Kurds.
Wonder what culture they would develop. What would it's people think and believe, belonging to a country that would exist for almost 3 thousands years.
Towards the end of the Empire there were moves to move away from Roman identity towards Hellenic/Greek identity. This was to court the support of Europe against the Ottomans, didnt work ofc.
Nice well created, nice to see some accounts of what they experienced.
PS there are some good reports in Muslim texts on the court ceremonial. See Nadia Maria El Cheikh, "Byzantium Viewed by the Arabs" (Harvard, 2004) as a starter for 10. Arab sources awed as thousands of courtiers were marshalled to guide in ambassadors in uniformed robes, the Mese covered in rugs and flowers, etc.
The description of what the Byzantines did to that emissary makes what happened in the fourth crusade make much more sense.
Wait until you google/wikipedia "The Massacre of the Latins" and how the blind Doge of Venice became blind in the first place.
@@nonnayerbusiness7704 Enrico wasn’t blinded by the Byzantines bruh. He suffered from cortical blindness. This is evident in his signatures as they worsen from 1174 to 1176.
Yeah, while its very reasonable for the Byzantines to be offended at the idea of there being a "Holy Roman Empire", they did themselves no favor by needlessly antagonizing these new kingdoms to the point that they'd be viewed as eternally untrustworthy and thus made it far more easier to justify sacking in the future.
"Uh is this a Muslim city? Why are there crosses-"
"Silence and start looting Frederick!"
@@comradekenobi6908 a g*rman tradition indeed
Very, extra, super boy... humble person I would say
I noticed you like African history topics. As do I.
While written records are scarce in some areas where it's mostly oral tradition, it's quite common in others. I'd recommend Aksum, specifically King Kaleb of Aksum. Morocco, the Ivory Coast. Timbuktu, Mali, Ghana, Liberia for a more interesting modern country.
Super special boy: I’m the best!
Very super special boy: No, I am!
Stranger: Amateurs
Both: what was that, punk!
The VERY VERY super special boy: Amateurs!
NCIS is produced and some episodes are written by people of the Bellisario family, they use "Belisarius" in the production company logo, and now I understand that "Very Special Agent Anthony Dinozzo" was apparently harking back to a Byzantine court title.
With Europa Universalis IV and the Extended Timeline mod playing as the Byzantine Empire you can become the Holy Roman Emperor and force convert the HRE too.
Yeah, you can restore Rome too, but as the video demonstrates the Eastern Empire was much more fun.
Super Extra Special Boy: Hey guys!
Very Super Extra Special Boy: Yooooo what's up dude!
Super Extra Special Boy: Oh.... I didn't realize you were coming tonight...
it's kind of a wonder how they managed to last as long as they did with an efficient court system like this :P
One of the most fitting sponsors Ever. Ck3 is sick
Its always funny when you hear about all powerful emperors acting like literal children.
The picture for the Chrysotriklinos at 10:42, isn't it a picture of the Church in Ravenna that has the Justinian mosaics ?
Yes, there are no currently identified remains so I used a placeholder image
That's it, I'm naming the next dog I get "Hyperprotopansebastohypertatos".
Hey can you do a video like this on some of the more modern wars and include in it battle breakdowns like you do in videos such as the "Avenging Varus - Germanic wars" video. I think it would be interesting to see how modern weapons and tactics affect how battles/wars differ from more ancient ones. A couple suggestions I have that I think would be interesting and also have enough public information for you to be able to conduct thorough research would be; the U.S. invasion of Iraq(Baghdad), the U.S. battle to retake Mosul(Baghdad) and i dont know of any specific battles in Afghanistans Kandahar province but i know there was very intense fighting there as well as many U.S. outposts which you could do an interesting video on the strategy behind the location, size, overall location meaning how all the outposts work together to create a perimeter, etc of those outposts. I hope you consider this as i think it would be a really interesting change for the channel while still remaining in the theme of historical battles only just being modern history. anyway keep up the great work you're videos are awesome and very educational.
If it's a look at the Byzantine era, why does the city graphic show a mosque and not the Aya Sofia church?
Crusader Kings vibe hours
You can't just show me "super extra special boy" and NOT tell me what was his job at court, I need to know!!!
Same!
The power move of making the ambassador remember all the details of the court in Bagdad only to rebuild the palace.
Shock and awe tactics being used on us all right now!
Every catholic church use soft power.
@@oddish2253 Jesuit infiltrated.
Love your videos. Keep up the great work!
When u have Centuries of experience being an imperial dynasties.
The title very extra special boy sounds like something you give a young royal hostage.
I'm loving the politics and the court. Question for anyone, how does a territory know it's conquered? How would a town know they are under another lord?
People talk. It doesn't take long for word to get around when something important takes place.
Amazing work as always
20:00 "Ahah fuck you Barbarians! How dare you call yourselves emperors?"
200 years later: "NOOOOO YOU CAN'T BE PILLAGING US! AAAAAAAAH HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE."
LMAO, get rekt.
This had been one of the most in-depth videos. So interesting.
Jesus"Pride is a sin"
Byzantine Court"Hold my expensive vase"
Well I have to say this a unique subject to cover in regards to similar channels. Well done
A wise decision that the byzantines didn't pull a Liutprand treatment on any mongol ambassadors.
6:40 Truly a very extra special boy
I had no idea that the Eastern Romans had such a great sense of humour.
Just imagine Nikephoros and Leon laughing their ass off during breakfast ''and then we had them waiting in the rain'' AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA
The byzantines were made the bitches of the west later hahaha inferiors@@joek600
Was wating for your video keep it up man
It must be mentioned that during their meeting, in his public speech, Liutprand called the Nikephoros as emperor of the Greeks, and called Otto as emperor of the Romans in front of the entire royal court of Constantinople. Its a miracle he did not get executed by this blatant public insult to the Byzantine (Roman) state
Good video, but how could you miss the hydraulic throne?
Good video. This Byzantine soft power is clever and bizarre. They looked more like the Papal court than like the European feudal monarchies of their age.
Liutprand's embassy reminds me of Macartney's embassy to China in 1793. Both ambassadors were certain of the power and prestige of their rulers and countries, and had a firm will to deal as equals with a power that, instead, saw them as insignificant Western barbarians. Both Liutprand and Macartney were confined to their lodgings, ignored, humiliated and forced to return home without achieving nothing. Both the Byzantines and imperial China ended up paying a heavy price for having ignored and underestimated "Western barbarians".
They were their own greatest enemy thou
@@huanquocmanh416 Who? The Byzantines or the Qing dynasty?
@@alessandrodelogu7931 mostly the byz. But yea qing too
Given that they were winning the war they didn’t start, it was an appropriate response.
They do end up giving a Princess btw under John Tzimeskes. But with no territorial concessions and the HRE forced to recognize their holdings in Italy.
And yet at the same time, the Roman court is the source of a lot of the cultural developments that fueled the Renaissance. Naturally the Romans looked down on the descendants of the 'barbarians' that burned the Western Roman provinces to the ground at the time of Nikephoros. Remember this was immediately after they had just seized Roman territory too! However, Rome was ultimately the cultural victor, with most of Western Europe imitating their customs (such as adopting Roman rule of law rather than using old Germanic laws, eating with forks, reading Classical texts and the like).
Theophanu for instance was a Roman Princess (not born of the purple) wedded to Otto II, and was responsible for developing the Holy Roman Empire in a direction that lead more towards the Rule of Law, emphasizing education and culture as well as the martial subjects for the nobility, and generally guiding the West out of its more 'dark age' habits by making sure the nobility could actually read and write. In the end, the Romans refugees from the fall of Constantinople managed to fan the idea in the West that they were now the children of Rome, and it was their duty to see it continue for all time. Hence to this day, EU law is based upon the foundations written down in Justinian's Codex, and old Germanic legal customs like trial by combat etc are now considered 'barbaric'.
Keep in mind that friendship or enmity with Western kingdoms and empires was ever-changing. Emperor Manuel Komnenos was a huge fan of Western traditions that he liked, such as jousting tournaments, and in turn he spread the sport of tzykanion (horse polo) to the West, a game still enjoyed by many to this day. He also married a Frank, as by that time the relationship between the Romans and the Franks were much improved. I imagine any modern Western (or Eastern for that matter) country would be naturally pissed too if someone took some of their territory, then dared to declare that they wanted 'peace' afterwards without returning what they had stolen.
More videos like this please
Kwarezmian Empire: Let's treat the Mongol embassy like shit.
The mongol emissaries would had love being in Constantinople if the Byzantine Empire was still wealthy (before 1204)
I have read somewhere that they had a floor mosaic in the palace showing the extent of the Empire at its height
Like during Trajan?
@@paprskomet presumably, or perhaps under Justinian (not sure if any maps from Trajan's time would have survived Antiquity), though I cannot find the reference now
@@jaojao1768 I guess it would be under Trajan since they were not ignorant of extend of empire at that time and also because they did not made any division between clasical Roman empire and what is modernly called as "Byzantine" empire.Sometimes(but not always)they did make a difference between pre-christian Roman empire and post Constantinian Christian Roman Empire but even like this Empire was bigger in time before Justinian during several emperors.It would only work with Justinian in case Roman east was meant specifically but thinking about it like this is not very common in eastern Roman sources.Most of the time awarness of Roman west and East as single administrative entities of one Roman world existed for relatively short time in 5th century and it is mostly this century only when eastern writers use designations like "western Romans/Eastern Romans".
I forget who it was, but supposedly a German emissary accidentally called Nikephoros “king of the Greeks” and basically got the crap kicked out of him and then was thrown in jail.
Leter of the Pope did so,he only delivered it.But pope did it intentionally as insult and Nikephoros believed it was actually idea of western Emperor that Pope alone would not dare to do it.
Eastern Romans and especially Eastern Roman Emperors hated a lot being related to Greeks and questioning their Roman-ness, since they were in fact the Romans.
The only thing that changed was the language that in 800 AD changed from Latin to Greek.
Yeah it basically means he denied them being the legitiate roman empire. Even if they were Greeks they still are Romans
So when our jealous neighbors come over, we'll drop an iPhone by accident and say things like "How could you be so clumsy, that's your 4th iPhone already, now I'm going to buy a new one." kind of drama
Hearing about Medieval rulers constant trying to flex on one another is the best. We need to bring it back.
its called Forbes
and we have it
Great video as always!
Ofcourse the Emperor should treat him like that, in order to show to his leader that he is nothing more that a leader of barbarians and ofcourse not legitimate Roman Emperor! Roman Empire survived only in the Greek East!
Everytime I see Crusader Kings as the sponsor of the video I know its going to be a good one.
Barbarian L, no wonder Liutprand was malding so hard
Based
Wonder if the some of the knights of the 4th Crusade read the notes of that Holy Roman ambassador ?
Probably not, but some crusaders and their Venetian allies would have had kin who were part of Constantinople's massacre of the Latins twenty years before.
Don't be delusional. Barbarians don't know how to read.