DS9 went even further than even TNG into showing how vital diplomacy and negotiation are, it also explored the aftermath of war and how for some people the pain of war takes a long time to go away- if ever.
When you believe in _Will to Power_ Nazis to the point of putting them in your show, naturally you also believe in resistance at all costs. The oppressed are excused in their use of force because there is always someone meaner and stronger to point to. Season One Kira rage-fitting on Cardassians, except all the time, and the whole cast. Nimoy exemplifies the progressive peacenick attitudes of that time. DS9 exemplified the sort of multicultural harmony that actually existed at that time. Discovery has a black lady lead, with a boy's name, because current year. Michael hits people because she's a strong woman and how else would you know? Aside from the literal meaning of the name.
@@SpiritualFox I really think Kira's a perfect example of how to write a strong female character with flaws and strengths. She's one of my favorites in the whole franchise, with one of the best arcs. Honestly anyone who wants diversity in their show and not make it a cringe fest should look at DS9, it did it flawlessly. Completely diverse cast and it never felt like they were smelling their own farts and lecturing to everyone about it. I always felt it's racial episodes were really extremely well done. Several episodes aged really, really well for today like the 9/11 episode (that was aired before 9/11) or the revisionist history in games episode (A decade before that became an issue).
William Shatner said it. You can act for a movie, but not every day when filming for television shows with runs that lasted most of the year. What you saw on Star Trek was what the actors were really like.
In his autobiography, Nimoy admitted that the Spock character got into his head to the point that it permanently influenced him for the rest of his life.
@@kitcat7538 i can see that too if you look at Patrica C ornwell if you look at any interview she does she talks about Kay Scarpetta as if she's a real person and that's cause she's written about her for so many years.
@@kitcat7538 Nimoy said that he always thought that he was typecast as a dumb brute until Star Trek. He made Spock very educated and civilized, and he became legendary for it.
@@arkroyal1598 and Burnham disobeying every single order from starfleet, hell, the entire chain of command is out the window and they seem to be rewarded for it.
The person Spock is supposed to hit on the head with his phaser on that first occasion is his beloved Captain Kirk, who is out of his head at the moment. Spock wouldn't have wanted to use even the stun setting if he could avoid it. When Nimoy wanted to introduce the Vulcan neck pinch, he asked for Shatner's help in selling it to the director, and they rehearsed it together. Nimoy told an interviewer that it was Shatner's performance in throwing his head back with a look of shock then collapsing on the floor which actually sold the neck pinch to the people in charge.
Those two iconic pieces of Vulcan culture, the neck pinch and the live long and prosper hand gesture- originated by the man who was tasked with bringing this character to life. Brilliant acting! :-)
SPOCK: Vulcans do not approve of violence. KIRK: You're saying he couldn't have done it? SPOCK: No, Captain. I'm merely saying it would be illogical to kill without reason. KIRK: But if he had a reason, could he have done it? SPOCK: If there were a reason, my father is quite capable of killing. Logically and efficiently.
@@kitcat7538 once deemed logical -- Vulcans will justify their actions. It is not based on YOUR judgment of logic. It is based on theirs. Their logic tells them this "Vulcan Hello" is an act of self-defense. Frankly -- it is canon now. Perhaps you also remember what Spock told Kirk to do to Gary Mitchell.
@@MrRinoHunter That we consider it being a monster to defend ones self and those incapable of defending themselves is, in itself, a disturbing trend. Monsters only live in peace when the virtuous can no longer defend against them.
@R L Since most people don't become legends until after they die, his death does not preclude him from being a legend. The only thing it precludes is (sadly) never seeing him in a new role on tv or the big screen.
@@spaceknight793 I can garanty you, if you bend my nose, I will make you bend your knee; I'll break it. Violence, pain, defeat, don't bring respect; it brings anger, violence, resentment, hate, vengeance; fear if you're lucky, but always suffering; and anything BUT respect. Now, the threat of having your knee broken if you try to bend my nose, THAT will possibly bring respect. To the dull-witted at least. No one wants to get hurt, or hurt too much for what it's worth; not even imaginary Klingons (''Only a fool fights in a burning house'' - Kang in TOS Day Of The Dove). But if you strike a blow, you'll only get one back; especially from a Klingon. You're making a very particular dichotomy here. Of course submission is not a way to gain respect. On that we can agree. But allow me to answer your ''pearl of wisdom'' with one of my own: An open hand will bring more respect than a closed fist. Especially if one knows that you can both help AND strike hard with an open hand.
@@observationsfromthebunker9639 Sorry but that is utter nonsense; pure partisan politics that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Antifascism has nothing to do with all this. If anything, beleiving that violence is a solution to anything is the very essence OF fascism; imposing your will by force. The Vulcan hello is neither left nor right, it' s wrong. Because it's plain stupidity. And stupidity is found in all political points of the spectrum.
It doesn't matter what you think. Ethan Peck (grandson of screen legend Gregory Peck btw) received the Nimoy family's blessing and Zachary Quinto received Nimoy's blessing quite obviously since he was in 2 of those shows playing Prime Spock himself.
@@TravKidd And why does it matter what you think? Who gave who a blessing is irrelevant. As if that would make a performance better. The late Tolkien-Family did not like the LOTR-movies. Does that mean that Ian McKellen is a bad Gandalf? Some old legends should be let in peace. If you want the good stuff these days ... invent it.
These characters are what the actor, or actors, bring to them. Spock has been played by Leonard Nimoy, but also Zachary Quinto, Ethan Peck, and Todd Haberkorn. Nimoy laid the foundation, but each of the other three brought their own interpretations and flavors to the character, not too unlike each actor has their own take playing a Shakesperian character.
Yeah, I didn't think Zachary Quinto did a bad job, but they're films that don't need to be made. Remakes (or "re-imaginings") are never going to be as good as the original. Wish they'd hand the reins over to competent sci-fi writers and create something new. I'm dreading the day they re-cast Sisko and Janeway.
I highly recommend the book "I am Spock." About Leonard Nimoy's history of film, about half of it regarding Star Trek. He had a habit of rewriting scripts as he mentions here. He was a stickler for continuity and logic in the world and setting.
He wrote two books like that. The first was called "I Am Not Spock". It's a very expensive, collector's item these days: www.amazon.com/Am-Not-Spock-Leonard-Nimoy/dp/1568496915/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=I+am+not+spock&qid=1599004772&s=books&sr=1-1
@@robinlillian9471 Yeah, but then in the follow up "I am Spock" he expresses that due to the title some people were giving him shit because they thought he hated the role. When really it was supposed to be "I've done more than be Spock in my career."
And here is a short interview in which Nimoy is eloquent and passionate about his dismay and contempt for poorly written Star Trek. ruclips.net/video/8wUiZxawqYM/видео.html
If peace brought peace we wouldnt have much substance. Thats what i find genius about Star Trek. They still implemented such aspects like advancing to the point of total peace( such as with the Organians), just for example; but in an episode by episode basis. Making the characters memorable and more "alive" for lack of better words, even if they were temporary. Making members on the enterprise learn these advanced traits and try to comprehend them. Showing that afterall, theyre still human (and Spock) and hardly advanced at all in comparison to what could be out there. Plus it really expands on universal beliefs and thoughts without shoving anything in your face. Its just genius. Especially for its time.
Leonard Nimoy was decades ahead of his time. He thought outside the box, He thought like a man of intellect..His sense of reasoning & logic is sorely missed from current Star Trek.
For all the hate people give to the "hippies" lots of ideas were floating around in the 1960s. Change was possible. Then things stagnated ever since 80s-90s and its nothing but corporatism and jingoism
Simply using the Star Trek world as a back drop for a modern Sci-Fi show doesn’t make it Star Trek. Phasers, transporters, space ships, and “the federation” are all someone else’s creativity. If you are playing in their world, then you should at least honor the ideals and philosophies that created that world. Otherwise, stop calling it Star Trek.
Star Wars is a much more clear example to me. In Legends, where Lucas was always approving of stories and had a guiding hand in them, it shows that the Emperor was consolidating power and making all these big weapons to fight an extra-galactic alien species known as the Yuzhan Vong. In Canon: "Haha, lightning go brr! Me me Emperor forever!" He was evil, and had evil side gigs (Dark Empire), but he had a clear goal that most everyone could get behind.
A good reminder that there was once a thing called Star Trek, and it thought we could do better. EDIT: For whatever reason, this three year old comment has gotten some recent attention, so I want to clarify something. This was mostly directed towards the J.J. Abrams films, which I thought were gorgeous to look at, but dumb action flicks at heart. I had not yet started to watch Discovery, and while I thought it got off to a pretty rocky start, I've reached the end of the third season now and think it's found its footing nicely. Haven't started Picard yet, but really, REALLY looking forward to digging into Strange New Worlds. That one may just be the new Trek I've been waiting for. So if you see this comment and think I'm just salty about a nonbinary character or whatever, save it. That's not what I was talking about up there. I'm all about the IDIC, just not so enthusiastic about Fast and Furious in space. Hope that heads off future misunderstandings. :-)
Star Trek is too dangerous for modern TV. Imagine a world where we live better, no smoking, no swearing, you can materialize anything you want or live in a holodeck and have all your fantasies come true. And yet people still decided to work within a chain of command/hierarchy onboard the Enterprise. Because they desired to learn more, to help society by exploring the unknown and tackling difficult problems. That's too dangerous for TV, we can't have people thinking we can strive for something better anymore
@@MsJeffreyF funny thing with the no smoking thing is I always thought it was a bit odd yes it's bad for you but if an individual wants to smoke no reason they shouldnt be able to
@@michaelkeha They do on the holodeck in TNG. I think they have very advanced medical technology that allows people to rid themselves of addictions easily People use to ask why is Picard bald, wouldn't they solve it in his century? And I think it was Roddenberry who would say they could fix it but they don't care about appearances like that. I suspect smoking would be similar, just wouldn't be cool in the future to do
Its a credit to him that any actor cared enough about pretending to be an alien scientist to actually help in the world building. Nowadays i doubt many 'actors' do more than learn the script.
Tbf, Leonard Nimoy was the sort of man to default to the expression "to render him unconscious" in a casual conversation. I think the majority of television writers aren't anywhere near his level.
Leonard Nimoy pretty much had to invent Spock. I'm not sure who said it (although I think it was Harlan Ellison), but someone closely associated with Star Trek said Gene Roddenberry's idea of character development was to give an actor three eyes or something. He wasn't good at making up the characters' abilities, quirks, and personality traits. The actors had to develop those themselves.
Roddenberry is overrated and somehow people have convinced themselves that the man who tried to abandon the show in Season 2 is the end all and be all of what created Star Trek.
Wasn't Spock originally supposed to look like the Devil? That was his "character" in Roddenberry's pitch "let's put an alien who looks like the Devil on the bridge and it'll show how humanity learned to stop judging by appearances". It's a nice idea, a nice "statement" to make, but there's no character there - there are some possible stories you could tell based on that (comparing Religion & Myths to the reality of the characters actions), but the character itself was just another member of the crew (as that was the whole point - "they're just like us once you learn to look passed the pointy ears, red skin and cloven hooves"). Then sensible people got involved and came up with the idea of a pointy eared alien who was driven by logic and reason, compared to humans driven by passion and emotion, and said "now we have something that we might actually be able to put on TV". And then, the writers and cast developed the actual character (and eventually whole species and culture) from there. Step by step. Arguably the whole core theme of Star Trek was built around that central conflict between human emotion and cold rational logic (certainly a lot of the best moments involved exploring this conflict - along with comparisons between humanity's past - or present - to the humanity of the future).
The folks infiltrating all the various IPs these days don't know or respect the source material, or the fans. It's just a tool to them to advance their own ideology, which is that everyone but themselves are racist sexist bigot villains who must be shamed into line with their condescending and misplaced hypocritical sermons.
Star Trek Discovery stole the plans and the majority of the art from a guy who made a videogame called "the tardigrades" (or something like that). They are actually in a dispute.
Star Trek was a hopeful future of man kind. Now writers are just stealing ideas from dudes making flash games and squeezing a bunch of action special effects to make it "original"
Well, they got caught and the lawsuit is ongoing unless CBS settles before it gets more expensive. It's not as if they have a lot of cash to spend now...
As a child I was always impressed by how dignified Spock was. The others would all be jumping about, grunting and crumpling their draylon, and in would walk Spock and pinch, flop, job done. I lived the scene where the crew were all acting silly to baffle a computer and all Sock did was say to two identical female robots "I love you, but I hate you". When they protested that they were identical, he replied "And that is why". Bingo, two defunct robots.
Spock was never the “physical tough” A being of great intellect, wisdom and patience. But also 2 times stronger than a human. And when Spock was “riled up” you knew you were about to see some stuff! Specially the look on kirks face when he knew he had pushed Spock too far and was about to get thrashed! 🤣
Thats why spock is so cool vulcans are one of the most phsyically strong races in the alpha quadrant and can snap most species necks easily but spock barely ever fights and when he does its so stylistic and methodical he only ever applys exaclty as much force as he needs despite being able to obliterate his opponents
But in "action" stories, knocking people out is treated like a quick and easy way to incapacitate people. Her point is that the neck pinch still basically brute force, physical domination, it only seems more intellectual. There are many points where Kirk knocks people out, and it isn't treated as any more or less savage than the neck pinch, because the intention is the same.
Really the most amazing part of this is an interviewer actually challenging what the actor is saying, "Of course you're being violent you realize." Today interviewers are purely shills, tasked to pander to the actor and make them and the show look wonderful and perfect.
actually she's an idiot, saying that, he wasn't being violent. he wasn't inflicting damage or pain, he was rendering the subject inert and unconscious with an almost benign act, a simple and calm application of pressure, completely temporary, to render impotent the will of the opponent. The vulcan neck pinch is winning without fighting, true skill, pure Sun Tzu, and unique.
This very concisely demonstrates what's wrong with the new Star Treks, all of them. At some point a decision was made to turn Star Trek into Star Wars. Nothing wrong with Star Wars. I love Star Wars. But Star Trek was about a hopeful future. It was about exploration. It was about discovery. It was about finding common ground, and where possible, solutions that did not involve extraneous violence. Was there action? Was there violence? Yes. A show that was always capable of settling everything peacefully and without conflict wouldn't be very interesting. But it was always made very clear that it was a last resort, and usually came about due to a misunderstanding. The Federation's first choice was always not to interfere and not to use violence. Self defense, certainly, if necessary; but never the aggressor. The big thing was that Star Trek made us WANT to be in that future. It gave us hope during a time when we were doing civil defense drills in elementary school, and tensions were high with the Soviet Union, that everything was going to be all right! Current iterations of Star Trek don't.
Really well put. I think maybe you have to be old now, and had watched Star Trek as a kid when the episodes first came out, to really understand - exactly what you describe, in the context of the times. And Leonard Nimoy's co-creation of Spock with Gene Roddenberry, was VITAL to what you describe. He helped guide Captain Kirk, indirectly, on that path just with his logic and "efficiency" - not needing violence as such a constant core resource used by all other adventure stories. That subconscious, suggested hope for our future is why the original Star Trek will forever be one of the great TV series of all time. So many great lessons in those episodes, without being preachy. It was relatively high intelligence fun.
I'm so glad that I am not the only one COMPLETELY annoyed with the New Star Treks. The arrogance of the creators/writers disgusts me. How could they turn such an inspiring ideal into such TYPICAL Hollywood BULL SHIT!? The SWEARING alone pissed me off (I swear, but I don't want that shit in Start Trek!), so you can imagine how the rest of the crap made me feel.
kinda hard to recognize his acting chops with Spock being such a deadpan character. You really see his full acting range, and charisma watch the old mission impossible series. I stumbled across a couple reruns and barely recognized him.
Start Trek is supposed to be about hope. The idea is that in the future we will get over our differences and evolve into something better. We can then make observations about our current society by comparing it to how our society should be. It is a very modern idea. The problem is that so many writers and producers have a post-modern view of things. What is the point of trying to evolve if we are just likely to blow it all up in the end anyway? So newer series shows people with tons of technology but with all of the same problems we have now. The new series loses that feeling of hope and it no longer challenges us to be be better. It is a shame that we have lost the old fashion idea about the future.
How many engineers and scientists today are where they are because of their love for Star Trek? Will anyone today watching Discovery go "I want to be an engineer?" No. That is why Discovery is a total failure.
Even in DS9, with all its realism and grimmess, the message was still the same, and was possibly even more powerful. Even in an horrible and grim universe there is still hope.
Season two is very different from season one and much closer to the classic StarTrek, with it's hope, curiosity and peaceful vision of the future. I mean I also didn't like season 1, but it makes sense that it was this hopeless mess considering it was in a state of war with the possiblity of Earth being wiped out.
@@Paulafan5 Since you are clearly omniscient, could you tell me the winning numbers of the next powerball lotto, or maybe just all the Superbowl winners for the next decade? Oh, right you can't, because you are just making shit up. How silly. LOTS OF PEOPLE are likely going to be insiped by STD. It's Trek, it does that.
Nimoy is so eloquent, just speaking off the cuff here. He is in every interview I've ever seen of him. Could this be what happens when you put the mastery of your profession above the politics of the day?
Actually, Trek was always very much about pushing left ideas. They just don't seem so "left" anymore when you watch it, everything just seems normal. Just like discovery won't seem left in 60 years. This show sparked tons of outrage from conservatives in the 60's. They didn't care, they kept at it, even though letters came pouring in. One of the reasons I loved Star Trek, they taught us to be accepting of differences, that differences didn't really mean that much, everyone, everywhere, deserves respect , until it's proven, they mean to do harm to others. it was kinda a big part of the story, no?
Leonard Nimoy really invested himself in the character of Spock. It’s really terrible that Alex Kurtzman and CBS don’t understand Star Trek at all, nor do they want learn about the message Star Trek conveys.
Yeah well the message is really what f***** up Star Trek! I got tired of all their preaching long ago. everybody hates "Enterprise" for some reason(personally I think Star Trek hates testosterone) but I think the worst of the hypocrisy is charging us to watch a show that preaches against the use of money!!
True, but the actors also bare some responsibility. Just look at the original TNG actors reprising their roles in Picard. Just money grabbing at this point.
@@noelv1976 for what it's worth, Stewart did say in interviews that he would only reprise the role of Piccard for a very good reason. And that reason is because friends & fans have told him over the years that in times of despair, seeing him and Star Trek gave them hope for the future. And now that we live in such dark times, he wanted to give everyone hope. So regardless of how bad the show is, I give him credit for that.
@@garysnow1475 the message is the entire point of the show. Roddenberry wrote it as a vision of a bright future, where things are better than they are today. I agree with the point about hating masculinity, as progressives over the past 40 years mistakenly embraced feminism for humanism. But Star Trek only preaches against the use of money in a society that has replicators, and doesn't need and/or depend on trade for goods & services. It's not preaching a moneyless society unconditionally.
As the Great Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius once said thousands of years ago "There was once a Dream called Star Trek. People would only speak of it in whispers To speak of it any louder and it would VANISH!"
"Of course, you're being violent, you realize, you're only splitting hairs and making yourself feel good." I wonder if she understood what he was describing. I realize that the Vulcan nerve pinch wasn't exactly common knowledge at this point, but...did she think he was talking about dressing up the act of killing a guy?
When I was young in the 60's, the Spock character inspired me to be disciplined during a time of chaos when the spirit of "if it feels good do it" was prevalent.
Ha, I just watched that episode, where the computer simulation is fighting a war that results in people being drafted into an incinerator to produce real casualties.
Wow I really miss this guy he wasn't just an actor he was an actual intellect my mother had several of his books watched his show "in search of "...RIP Mr Nimoy ... you are dearly missed =
Like every time in the new Trek Movies where it explicitly served the story and you took notice? But this time you can somehow tell from 2 second trailer it will serve no purpose?
@@mytruepower2 While that would not have been the first time (Datas Day), they have like 4 Members of his family around to identify any Romulan Imposter. A romulan Brainwashing (like what happened to Geodi once) seems more likely. Plus we know he ties into the main story. Also this was a 2v1 at least. Not a situation where spock has the *leisure* of using the nerve pinch on all possible targets. If you consider how long it always took to apply it, I would say it was a sneak attack only action.
@@christopherg2347 True. Evil mirror universe Spock didn't try the nerve pinch when he was being attacked by three men at once, and they still had to hit him over the head with a sculpture to stop him. Still, it's very, very odd for vulcans to resort to violence if they're not in the pon farr.
@@mytruepower2 "Still, it's very, very odd for vulcans to resort to violence if they're not in the pon farr." I would generalize it as "if they are not emotionally compromized". This is Section 31 we are talking about. I would bet they use drugs that emotionally compromize him. Or the whole part about it being a 2v1 at least.
Amazing how Leonard pioneered both the Vulcan nerve pinch and Vulcan "V" spread fingers hand gesture live long and prosper from a Judaic greeting. As Spock would say : Fascinating .
Leonard Nimoy a donné vie au personnage, de Spock ainsi il a inventé les gestes les attitudes, la démarche digne d’un « vulcain « il avait compris comment fonctionnait Star Trek original, une vision d’un monde meilleur, le personnage est tant aimé car il est puissant , sans en avoir l’air , c’est à dire sans armes , à l’écoute des autres. D’ailleurs il n’y a que le personnage de Spock qui a traversé le temps jusqu’à aujourd’hui. Nous aimeront toujours Spock, car mr Nimoy avait l’esprit clair, et futuriste il savait exactement ce que son personnage inspiré au gens. Leonard Nimoy était un formidable acteur, une intelligence rare .il nous manque beaucoup
Diversity is a non-issue. The original show was built on it. It has always been that way. If you don’t like the writing then blame the writers and the producers, not diversity.
@@Niiiiith Also, if it makes people feel better, Enterprise isn't in the same timeline as TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager. It's an alternate timeline created by First Contact.
What an amazing artist, actor, articulate, attractive dude… with philosophical concerns about glorifying violence - and so invents an “alien so anything could happen” beautiful HUMANITARIAN way of neutralising a violent opponent with a clever neck pinch! ☺️ This interview is friggin awesome
“Violence brought respect, respect brought peace.” Metron: By sparing your helpless enemy, who surely would have destroyed you, you demonstrated the advanced trait of mercy. Something we hardly expected. We feel that there may be hope for your kind. Therefore, you will not be destroyed. It would not be... civilized. 1x18 - Arena
@@jokurajunimi Yes and no, its more an idealized society that has found more value in discovering new things and less in owning things. The problem with communism will always be the human element, and how it clashes with our need to advance beyond our current station and obtain things of value, which in modern society is money and socal standing. Trek overcomes this by making the value more about discovery and maintaining the past (hense why you can have the Picard family run a vineyard while Jean-Luc is out captianing the flagship of the federation and both are seen as valuable to society). I agree Roddenberry railing against capitalism in TNG's early seasons is very off putting as that seems less like "Hey our society has just moved beyond material things becasue we have evolved to a point we can just make anything we need" and more into his own personal politics and him saying "look at how much better we are than people who want money" as he then proceeded to copyright everything so if you tried to recreate or distribute the show he could sue you.
Each time I see one of your vids, where you go back so much just to prove some minor point showing discovery in bad light, investing so much time in such small issues, I feel happy and belive in people's combined effort to take this show off the air and unlinking it from the Star Trek brand for ever.
That was a popular trop for years. How many times was Batman knocked out by a villain in the sixties and 70's? How many times for the TV detective, like Mannix? If they can club you, they can shoot you. Leonard Nimoy brought a lot of artistic integrity to his performances that make them unforgettable more than 50 years later.
This was the 6th episode of season 1 of im correct. Early trek is very weird as it was still so new and not fleshed out. I don’t even think the federation nor the prime directive was introduced till late season 1 or season 2 I can’t remember. But I believe they did stun someone in the man trap so hey I guess they just wanted to do something else instead of phasers.
@@cr3aam388 plus they gotta pay for the special effect every time they se a phaser. now it takes 5 seconds to add a phser effect in after effects so everyone shooting everyone at the drop of a hat.
The possible in-universe explanation would be the fact the ship automatically detects if someone uses a phaser. And before you say something about cameras or other sensors they can be used to know where someone is, not what he is doing.
Knocking people over the head was very common in movies and TV shows. It was a standard way for a hero to knock out his opponent from behind. But blows to the head are incredibly damaging and potentially fatal. It isn't a safe way to render the victim unconscious. Well done for Mr Nimoy to suggest a more civilised approach used by Vulcans. His reasoning behind it shows someone who had empathy for his character and a belief that violence does not solve problems, although it does help when you beam down to a hostile planet.
The original series and the next generation were fond of finding ulterior motives to violence. Discovery is just the next sci-fi action flick. It's kind of sad that they've reduced themselves to everybody else.
This is what happens in corporate capitalism. Masterpieces are sold to rich crooks that use them for their personal gains/agenda. Money ruins everything. It's only a matter of time.
In the late 60s you had action instead of violence (at least in Star Trek) , in 2019 the message is violence brought respect, respect brought peace.... Dear god we are regressing🤭!!
Wrong. Society doesn't regress because of bad writing. It regresses when a country spends billions every year for war, has 1,000 bases across the planet, had bombed 50cointries since WW2, caused humanitarian catastrophes and refugees which is then destroying other countries, has cities that are war zones with 5,000 shot every year. When war & death becomes your nations main driving force, it's normal that STD reflects a regressive society for limited writers for whom this is normal.
The big irony being that the STD writers would seem to be self described liberals who obsess over identity politics. Almost like this isn't incompatible with the status quo :P
Truly. I don't believe creativity is dead, I just don't think people with originally creative ideas are given a chance. Everything nowadays is a sequel or a remake because it ensures revenue. Creativity is a monetary risk that many of these producers and companies are afraid of.
"Violence brought respect, and respect brought peace" And how long can that peace last if it is only enforced by fear and violence? by your logic the Klingon Empire is the most peaceful in all the Beta Quadrant, my question to you is should the Federation then follow suit by annexing sovereign worlds and beating down all those who oppose such an action, making ourselves no more better than the humans of centuries past?
Violence, or otherwise the threat of force (physical or otherwise) is the foundation of civilization... But like you said it is not enough (especially when scaled up like that, it barely works beyond tribal levels; north Korea requires religious devotion on top of violence, for example) Force can bring about temporary peace, but it cannot maintain it properly. Conversation, cooperation, mutual benefits and understanding is needed to properly maintain peace. Happiness is needed to maintain peace.
@@crispymidget8531 at least it was entertaining. the new one is so lame, I could've written a better show. we are living in an era where star trek fan shows are better.
This is so fascinating. As someone who loves martial arts movies, the idea of disabling an opponent is often scene in Chinese wuxia movies where a master who has the ability to disarm an opponent with his Qi and pinching of nerves was always carried out by the good guy as a sign of mercy.
It helped that Leonard Nimoy was actually a master of vulcan nerve pinch techniques in real life. So they didn't have to keep flicking from edit to edit in a confusing frame-by-frame mishmash designed to pretend that the performer and director have real skills they actually lack.
1:40 The most important thing the current Star Trek series lack ... INTEGRITY ... it's truly a beautiful clip, RIP Leonard Nimoy, you are indeed missed.
That's quite Ironic given that Major Grin is also lacking integrity by not showing you what REALLY happened in the Discovery Spock fight scene. That fight wasn't really Spock, it was an Evil Ai using a hologram to frame Spock for murder. But when we see what really happened later on, Spock is seen simply giving those guys a neck pinch and escaping WITHOUT using violence, which is in keeping with what the great man L. Nimoy is saying!
The Vulcan death grip was a brilliant move thought up by Leonard Nimoy. and of course it stayed in the series. and the way it was utilized was perfect. because Leonard Nimoy could use it in such a way. that a fellow actor would know that it was their que to fall when they would feel the pinch. without any off camera direction. and like he said it was a better alternative to a more abrupt violent action.
Because you are a fucking idiot just like a small handful of other idiots claiming to know what Gene Roddenberry wanted and what he would have hated. Just get a fucking life. You can easily just not watch it. Fucking outrage junkies is what you losers are. It's pathetic.
@@volgawolfhounds741 >"Why do you care so much that something you've loved for years is being dragged through the mud lol, just stop caring and don't watch" >"FUCK ALL OF YOU YOU'RE JUST MAD FOR NO FUCKING REASON FUCK" The absolute state of 'fans' defending STD
I watched ten minutes of episode 1 of season 2. Never never again. This is totally JJ Abrams Star Trek. Discovery doesn't fit into the classic timeline AT ALL.
@@notbobdavis6026 You know the iconic Vulcan hello he came up with it for the show but he didn’t actually come up with it it’s actually a Jewish symbol an ancient one that’s not really used and claimed credit for it
@@calebwalker9090 Brilliant statement, you win the Interwebs, snowflake. Oh and btw, Lenard Nimoy was Jewish. However, facts should never come ahead of feelings, amIright?
The idea of violence bringing respect which leads to respect bringing peace is really questionable. It is not even just contradictory to Original Star Trek. It almost makes no sense in real life. Leonard Nimoy knew something the writing team behind Star Trek Discovery doesn't.
This video is misleading. The suggestion for violence by Burnham, was only introduced as an unconventional method the Vulcans used previously, to combat an unconventionally violent enemy in the Klingons. Violence is what Klingons do, so Burnham, using logic, surmised that violence is all they would respond to. And to be clear, her actions started a war and got her arrested and shamed which reinforces the original Star Trek theme, that violence is not what Starfleet is about.
@@jamesonboxingfan4274 So, Burnham's '' Vulcan logic'' was; to defeat the enemy, be the enemy. Real logic however, in Star Trek itself as in real life, shows us that, doing that, the enemy wins anyway by turning you into what THEY are. The message of Star Trek and wise people the world over; violence only begets violence. It might be a regrettable necessity, but never a solution; or at least in the Star Trek mindset, that Nimoy exemplifies here, it never should be. TOS A private Little War is one example of Star Trek being quite eloquent in that regard; and based on real life. In Kurtzmantrek however, it is always the first and only solution. In canon, Vulcans warred almost up to extinction before they understood this and changed themselves deeply to avoid it. And they of all people would choose it, especially against a people that revels in it? THAT is MOST illogical. That alone in S1 E1 quickly showed us Kurtzmantrek is not Star Trek. Everyone knows you don't calm down an angry dog by roughing it up. Everyone but Kurtzmantrek's Jedi Vulcans and Michael Burnham apparently.
@@odojang Klingons are not angry dogs where they flare up and calm down, they have a culture of war all throughout Star Trek. This is the language in which they spoke during this time period of Star Trek Discovery. In Discovery, the Klingons attacked Vulcan ships without warning, so the LOGIC was to respond to them in a language the Klingons would understand. The Vulcans would fire first, until the Klingons left them alone. If an enemy, who is just as or more powerful than you, with a culture of war and their eyes are fixed upon you, logic dictates words and peace will not be enough. And as the story goes, this was a setup! The Klingons wanted this war to unite all Klingons against a common enemy anyway. Burnham simply tried to copy the Vulcans blueprint. And the main theme of Star Trek remained intact because the war turned out to be a travesty(because Burnham killed T'kuvma), and the conflict was settled via armistice. And the entire series of Discovery is in line with Star Trek's main theme anyway. In my opinion Discovery carries that theme with the best of them. If there is a version of Star Trek that should be under this type of Scrutiny, try the movies where Chris Pine plays Kirk. Full of violence and anger.
@@jamesonboxingfan4274 I never said Klingons were angry dogs. I suggested however that, LIKE angry dogs, you don't calm them down by biting them first. That is illogical. But even more so, Klingons see violence as their way of life, their very identity. That's why they want war; not for gain, but for the sake of it, to be what they are; as you point out so well. Thus, by offering them violence, you will NEVER defuse theirs; you will actually nourrish it, validate it, serve it. That is why the Vulcan Hello is totally illogical. Answering them with '' a language they will understand'' is the excuse of the resourceless weak-minded, not a logical position, let alone an effective one. Especially from a people (the Vulcans) who revere peace, knowing war to be a failed solution to end war, this weak argument is also completely illogical. If you beleive war is the only solution to war, it means you have no belief in peace. Nothing could be less Vulcan (and true) than that. Or less Star Trek than that. And the conflict did not end with an armistice. It ended with a genocidal blackmail; you keep in line or we destroy your whole homeworld and people. DIS's central theme is Might Makes Right. You call this Star Trek? But you're right about Abramstrek. And Kurtzmantrek is it's obvious direct offspring in every detail. Recall that Kurtzman is also he who wrote this Nu-Kirk... and trigger-happy, strike-first-strike-hard-no-mercy-sir! Burnham. They are an item; violence as the solution to problems. in other words, Not Star Trek.
@@odojang Yeah, I get what you are saying, but the Klingons struck the Vulcans first, and without warning. I think it is illogical to think peace will be made peacefully, with a people who crave war/battle and already seek to attack you. Logic would dictate that you deal with them accordingly for your own safety, especially when peace with the Klingons have failed numerous times. And to be honest, while I like Star Trek and Starfleet's ideals, not everyone in the galaxy is going to adhere to them or even acknowledge them. Some people HAVE to be fought, like Hitler. Do you think the world could have dealt with Nazi Germany in a peaceful manner? I think the war/opposition of the Klingons adds realism to the story. And some people along the way, like Burnham, will stumble and lose their way, this is human nature. But she picked herself up when given a second chance and rose to meet Starfleet's highest ideals, with her and her crew handling themselves admirably all throughout the show. You can't tell me that Discovery and it's crew didn't represent Starfleet well. They totally did, in the face of all types of insurmountable circumstances. And let us not forget that it was the Klingons who were waiting for their chance to start this war. With or without Burnham, this war would have happened eventually.
Also Leonard Nimoy understood that children would be watching Star Trek.. and he didn’t want them to be mimicking him hitting someone, and you’re less likely to hurt someone pretending to do a Vulcan neck pinch than hitting them with a phaser.
@@sivamachina3160 I guess you haven't been watching the latest episodes of Discovery. He may turn out not to be one, but his psychiatric "doctors" have been claiming he killed 3 doctors.
Actually, the two were frequently at odds. Roddenberry sometimes resented Nimoy because Nimoy changed the original vision. But mostly the show benefitted, and I think the show was better for it.
The original Star Trek was hope and social awareness. Discovery is not. Discovery is just an MCU wanna be, Game of Thrones wanna be, Westworld wanna be, where it wants to garner a significant fan base based upon drama. To make that work they did need to go back in time before the original series so as to pick up new fans but the public never got the message. As a SciFi fan the drama series like the Sopranos on HBO don't draw me. Babylon 5 and Frascape yes. I do enjoy the Netflix MCU series but they are the exception for me. What worked in the 1960s won't work today. That I get. But chasing other people's comets? What's the point if it is Star Trek. Chase the Star Trek comet.
Sarek laid this idea on Burnham, she didn't come up with herself. This is practical *Infinite diversity (in) infinite combinations* , in practice, in the real world. You deal with the Klingons by respecting them enough to talk to them in the 'language' they culturally understand.
They also shove "woke" SJW politics into everything but in an aggressive, authoritarian and hamfisted way. Many of which aren't even really progressive once you deconstruct them. They're just popular with people who identify and think of themselves as such. TNG was moral and progressive in a healthy way. A genuinely good way. Discovery is like the weird, religious extremist version of TNG.
I can show my nephews and nieces along with their friends(ranging from 9 to 21 depending on which group ) Star Trek from the original series all the way to Enterprise and they sit there absolutely captivated by it completely in love with optimism and hope for a better tomorrow the all too human characters and the deep philosophy being posed my friend Star Trek when done right is a timeless treasure
@@michaelkeha It's prolly pretty 'exotic' to them considering the repetitive and predictible format every overly long laundry detergent commercial now seems to want to emulate.
Even Babylon 5 was more sophisticated than this. The entire series was about trying to establish peace in a galaxy torn apart by war. Violence was always a last resort for them and it was made clear to the audience that violence only undermined the mission.
That's why the Discovery Spock fight scene was a fake made by an evil Ai trying to frame Spock for murder. He actually just gave them a neck pinch and escaped without violence.
Amazed to know Leonard created the neck pinch. That was his iconic move. We made sure not to miss this series every Sunday morning . The original actors build the characters ground up. New actors playing these characters do not have the flexibility to add or remove anything from these characters which limits their creativity.
I did not give Discovery the time of day when in a trailer them use a term "A Vulcan Hello" and it's meaning was to go in guns blazing. What a disgrace.
@@manickreations Every clip I saw of Pike he was surrounded by women second guessing him and ignoring his orders. If 99% of the show is trash and 1% is passable because the actor is good does not redeem the show.
Leonard Nimoy was a great inspiration to me. I thought logically for a long time and still do but it too me a while to understand that Spock had emotion too and that he could control and understand with his friends help. Nimoy has helped me understand and work through my own issues so much like I believe he has for many people. He did say once that he was everyone's adoptive grandfather and that made me feel great in my worst times. Leonard Nimoy was an absolute treasure that this world couldn't afford to lose so early. He will be missed by many
@@manickreations JunkTrek takes beloved characters from previous series and humiliates and degrades them. It tortures one to death. It tries to negate Deep Space Nine and Voyager and everything they came to mean to us. It is the producers of JunkTrek who are the haters. They hate the fans and they hate Star Trek itself to the degree that they are trying to destroy it. The haters who produce JunkTrek will not succeed because the fan base is stronger than they are. When TNG finished its seven-year run, I hadn't even been born. My generation are the new Star Trek generation, and we will see JunkTrek off and see the return to true Star Trek. A positive, hopeful Star Trek in which men and women treat one another with respect.
It's not that they don't understand, it's that they don't *care* to understand. They want to make the next Game of Thrones, make a billion dollars, & move on. They aren't out to make good television, they're out to make a quick buck. It's unfortunate, I actually *like* a lot of the stuff in Discovery, but the whole is less than the sum of its parts, not more.
Leonard Nimoy was absolutely brilliant. Not only did he invent the Vulcan nerve pinch, he also was the one who decided Spock, and by extension all Vulcans would be stoic when he chose to play the character as more reserved to contrast William Shatner’s energy as Kirk. He was as much responsible for the creation of Spock as Gene Roddenberry if not more so. It’s such a shame that Discovery treated his character so disrespectfully.
Развлечения
It's ironic that DS9 with its main theme of war still understood that violence shouldn't be glorified and only be used in defence.
DS9 went even further than even TNG into showing how vital diplomacy and negotiation are, it also explored the aftermath of war and how for some people the pain of war takes a long time to go away- if ever.
Oh yes. Diplomacy is working
When you believe in _Will to Power_ Nazis to the point of putting them in your show, naturally you also believe in resistance at all costs. The oppressed are excused in their use of force because there is always someone meaner and stronger to point to.
Season One Kira rage-fitting on Cardassians, except all the time, and the whole cast.
Nimoy exemplifies the progressive peacenick attitudes of that time. DS9 exemplified the sort of multicultural harmony that actually existed at that time. Discovery has a black lady lead, with a boy's name, because current year. Michael hits people because she's a strong woman and how else would you know? Aside from the literal meaning of the name.
@@SpiritualFox I really think Kira's a perfect example of how to write a strong female character with flaws and strengths. She's one of my favorites in the whole franchise, with one of the best arcs. Honestly anyone who wants diversity in their show and not make it a cringe fest should look at DS9, it did it flawlessly. Completely diverse cast and it never felt like they were smelling their own farts and lecturing to everyone about it. I always felt it's racial episodes were really extremely well done. Several episodes aged really, really well for today like the 9/11 episode (that was aired before 9/11) or the revisionist history in games episode (A decade before that became an issue).
@@BlazingOwnager Well said!
“Violence brought respect, and respect brought peace.”
I didn’t know Palpatine had become the leader of the Federation...
Unlimited violeeeeeence!!!!
It's like every tyrant's ideology summed up.
Lmao what a disgrace.
Peace through tyranny
Tbh though, this really does almost sound like some Sith proverb
Guys, she's talking about the Klingons in that scene. Riker himself used violence on the Klingon ship to earn their respect.
"To render him unconscious." I love that he sounds a lot like Spock even when not acting him
William Shatner said it. You can act for a movie, but not every day when filming for television shows with runs that lasted most of the year. What you saw on Star Trek was what the actors were really like.
In his autobiography, Nimoy admitted that the Spock character got into his head to the point that it permanently influenced him for the rest of his life.
@@kitcat7538 i can see that too if you look at Patrica C ornwell if you look at any interview she does she talks about Kay Scarpetta as if she's a real person and that's cause she's written about her for so many years.
@@kitcat7538 Nimoy said that he always thought that he was typecast as a dumb brute until Star Trek. He made Spock very educated and civilized, and he became legendary for it.
@@kitcat7538 well you could have a lot worse role model, than MR Spock 🙂
I like how the actors back then were all on board with Gene's visions and always tried ways to make it better.
Modern process keeps workers away from this kind of embrace.
@Gail Everett don't forget the mandatory minimum of no less than 2 gay kisses per episode.
@@TheDJOblivion also dont forget the mandatory minimum of crying/sobbing in each episode...
@@arkroyal1598 and Burnham disobeying every single order from starfleet, hell, the entire chain of command is out the window and they seem to be rewarded for it.
And now the writers and producers of Star Trek Picard threw that in the trash. And add more booze.
STD: Violence brought respect, respect brought peace.
Spock: no
This should just how stupid the people behind STD are
I hope we all keep refering to it as "STD"
Obi Wan to Spock while pointing at STD: How uncivilized.
Respect is to be earned through violence dammit!!!
I assume that’s not a Terran bit then?
Brilliant! Had no idea Mr Nimoy actually INVENTED the nerve pinch, how cool. And, as always, his logic was impecable.
He also invented the vulcan salute.
@@burieddreamer Actually he borrowed that from an blessing that is apparently done during a Jewish religious service.
Fascinating.
That "nerve pinch" is based on a normal martial arts technique that uses atemi-points. Commonly used in Judo, Jiu Jitsu, Karate.
The person Spock is supposed to hit on the head with his phaser on that first occasion is his beloved Captain Kirk, who is out of his head at the moment. Spock wouldn't have wanted to use even the stun setting if he could avoid it.
When Nimoy wanted to introduce the Vulcan neck pinch, he asked for Shatner's help in selling it to the director, and they rehearsed it together. Nimoy told an interviewer that it was Shatner's performance in throwing his head back with a look of shock then collapsing on the floor which actually sold the neck pinch to the people in charge.
Oh dear. I do miss Leonard Nimoy. What a wonderful actor.
Those two iconic pieces of Vulcan culture, the neck pinch and the live long and prosper hand gesture- originated by the man who was tasked with bringing this character to life. Brilliant acting! :-)
What happens when you treat your character, your matarial and your audience with respect
SPOCK: Vulcans do not approve of violence.
KIRK: You're saying he couldn't have done it?
SPOCK: No, Captain. I'm merely saying it would be illogical to kill without reason.
KIRK: But if he had a reason, could he have done it?
SPOCK: If there were a reason, my father is quite capable of killing. Logically and efficiently.
We are not talking about efficiency here. We are talking about Vulcans making a first strike rather than acting in self-defense.
Only monsters can live in peace, being helpless is not a virtue. One must always be capable of being monsters but chose not to be one.
@@kitcat7538 once deemed logical -- Vulcans will justify their actions. It is not based on YOUR judgment of logic. It is based on theirs. Their logic tells them this "Vulcan Hello" is an act of self-defense. Frankly -- it is canon now. Perhaps you also remember what Spock told Kirk to do to Gary Mitchell.
@@MrRinoHunter That we consider it being a monster to defend ones self and those incapable of defending themselves is, in itself, a disturbing trend. Monsters only live in peace when the virtuous can no longer defend against them.
One of my favorite episodes
You're a legend Leonard. You'll be missed.
Love watching him in interviews. It is talent like this that is missing not just from Star Trek, but from tv and film in general.
I'm sure Shattner misses him too he talked about him at the supercon...
@R L Since most people don't become legends until after they die, his death does not preclude him from being a legend. The only thing it precludes is (sadly) never seeing him in a new role on tv or the big screen.
It’s okay to call Jewish people Jews, it’s not a racist term. .... yet.
He's *already* missed
“Violence brought respect, respect brought peace.”
The writer just revealed a great deal about the psychology of these people.
If someone thinks punching you in the nose will bring your respect, they more likely got another punch coming.
@@odojang a bent nose will bring more respect than a bended knee.
@@spaceknight793 I can garanty you, if you bend my nose, I will make you bend your knee; I'll break it.
Violence, pain, defeat, don't bring respect; it brings anger, violence, resentment, hate, vengeance; fear if you're lucky, but always suffering; and anything BUT respect.
Now, the threat of having your knee broken if you try to bend my nose, THAT will possibly bring respect. To the dull-witted at least. No one wants to get hurt, or hurt too much for what it's worth; not even imaginary Klingons (''Only a fool fights in a burning house'' - Kang in TOS Day Of The Dove). But if you strike a blow, you'll only get one back; especially from a Klingon.
You're making a very particular dichotomy here. Of course submission is not a way to gain respect. On that we can agree. But allow me to answer your ''pearl of wisdom'' with one of my own:
An open hand will bring more respect than a closed fist.
Especially if one knows that you can both help AND strike hard with an open hand.
The writers are likely cheerleaders for Antifa which definitely thinks violence will bring respect and peace on their terms.
@@observationsfromthebunker9639 Sorry but that is utter nonsense; pure partisan politics that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
Antifascism has nothing to do with all this. If anything, beleiving that violence is a solution to anything is the very essence OF fascism; imposing your will by force.
The Vulcan hello is neither left nor right, it' s wrong. Because it's plain stupidity.
And stupidity is found in all political points of the spectrum.
This is why I am totally against recasting iconic roles like Spock. These people were more than just actors reading lines. They were part of the role.
It doesn't matter what you think. Ethan Peck (grandson of screen legend Gregory Peck btw) received the Nimoy family's blessing and Zachary Quinto received Nimoy's blessing quite obviously since he was in 2 of those shows playing Prime Spock himself.
@@TravKidd And why does it matter what you think? Who gave who a blessing is irrelevant. As if that would make a performance better. The late Tolkien-Family did not like the LOTR-movies. Does that mean that Ian McKellen is a bad Gandalf? Some old legends should be let in peace. If you want the good stuff these days ... invent it.
Especially considering how much of himself and his heritage Nimoy put into that character.
These characters are what the actor, or actors, bring to them. Spock has been played by Leonard Nimoy, but also Zachary Quinto, Ethan Peck, and Todd Haberkorn. Nimoy laid the foundation, but each of the other three brought their own interpretations and flavors to the character, not too unlike each actor has their own take playing a Shakesperian character.
Yeah, I didn't think Zachary Quinto did a bad job, but they're films that don't need to be made. Remakes (or "re-imaginings") are never going to be as good as the original. Wish they'd hand the reins over to competent sci-fi writers and create something new. I'm dreading the day they re-cast Sisko and Janeway.
I highly recommend the book "I am Spock."
About Leonard Nimoy's history of film, about half of it regarding Star Trek. He had a habit of rewriting scripts as he mentions here. He was a stickler for continuity and logic in the world and setting.
He wrote two books like that. The first was called "I Am Not Spock". It's a very expensive, collector's item these days: www.amazon.com/Am-Not-Spock-Leonard-Nimoy/dp/1568496915/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=I+am+not+spock&qid=1599004772&s=books&sr=1-1
@@robinlillian9471 Yeah, but then in the follow up "I am Spock" he expresses that due to the title some people were giving him shit because they thought he hated the role. When really it was supposed to be "I've done more than be Spock in my career."
And here is a short interview in which Nimoy is eloquent and passionate about his dismay and contempt for poorly written Star Trek.
ruclips.net/video/8wUiZxawqYM/видео.html
Don't forget "I Am Also Scotty", that's a good read.
@@GreenHairedKaiba I was just about to recommend this. I see you're a man of culture.
"Violence brings respect. Respect will bring peace." -- Every madman to his followers.
I mean, that's kind of the point of that scene. It doesn't work.
Some parents too
War is peace.
Fight for peace!
If peace brought peace we wouldnt have much substance. Thats what i find genius about Star Trek. They still implemented such aspects like advancing to the point of total peace( such as with the Organians), just for example; but in an episode by episode basis. Making the characters memorable and more "alive" for lack of better words, even if they were temporary. Making members on the enterprise learn these advanced traits and try to comprehend them. Showing that afterall, theyre still human (and Spock) and hardly advanced at all in comparison to what could be out there. Plus it really expands on universal beliefs and thoughts without shoving anything in your face. Its just genius. Especially for its time.
Leonard Nimoy was decades ahead of his time. He thought outside the box, He thought like a man of intellect..His sense of reasoning & logic is sorely missed from current Star Trek.
"Decades ahead of our time" surely. And Discovery is many decades behind StarTrek and the Next Generation. And even The Orville.
Reasoning and logic is the Vulcan way of course!
For all the hate people give to the "hippies" lots of ideas were floating around in the 1960s. Change was possible. Then things stagnated ever since 80s-90s and its nothing but corporatism and jingoism
Simply using the Star Trek world as a back drop for a modern Sci-Fi show doesn’t make it Star Trek. Phasers, transporters, space ships, and “the federation” are all someone else’s creativity. If you are playing in their world, then you should at least honor the ideals and philosophies that created that world. Otherwise, stop calling it Star Trek.
You don't know jack shit about Star Trek.
Star Wars is a much more clear example to me. In Legends, where Lucas was always approving of stories and had a guiding hand in them, it shows that the Emperor was consolidating power and making all these big weapons to fight an extra-galactic alien species known as the Yuzhan Vong. In Canon: "Haha, lightning go brr! Me me Emperor forever!"
He was evil, and had evil side gigs (Dark Empire), but he had a clear goal that most everyone could get behind.
Kurtzman, Abrams and Goldsman have been getting away with this larceny since 2009!
...which is how we got The Orville.
Not a better word could be said on the subject, than this.
The real Spock has spoken!!!!
Indeed! STD is a disgrace to everything Gene Roddenberry stood for!
Richard Ched Yeah! Live long and suck it Zachary Quinto
@@JamboRankine And sadly even Quinto is fantastic compared to what we're going to be getting from STD. Now we have Spock the serial killer.
@vidstar1 no argument there lol.
Live Long and Prosper.
A good reminder that there was once a thing called Star Trek, and it thought we could do better.
EDIT: For whatever reason, this three year old comment has gotten some recent attention, so I want to clarify something. This was mostly directed towards the J.J. Abrams films, which I thought were gorgeous to look at, but dumb action flicks at heart. I had not yet started to watch Discovery, and while I thought it got off to a pretty rocky start, I've reached the end of the third season now and think it's found its footing nicely. Haven't started Picard yet, but really, REALLY looking forward to digging into Strange New Worlds. That one may just be the new Trek I've been waiting for. So if you see this comment and think I'm just salty about a nonbinary character or whatever, save it. That's not what I was talking about up there. I'm all about the IDIC, just not so enthusiastic about Fast and Furious in space. Hope that heads off future misunderstandings. :-)
Star Trek is too dangerous for modern TV. Imagine a world where we live better, no smoking, no swearing, you can materialize anything you want or live in a holodeck and have all your fantasies come true. And yet people still decided to work within a chain of command/hierarchy onboard the Enterprise. Because they desired to learn more, to help society by exploring the unknown and tackling difficult problems. That's too dangerous for TV, we can't have people thinking we can strive for something better anymore
@@MsJeffreyF funny thing with the no smoking thing is I always thought it was a bit odd yes it's bad for you but if an individual wants to smoke no reason they shouldnt be able to
@@michaelkeha They do on the holodeck in TNG. I think they have very advanced medical technology that allows people to rid themselves of addictions easily
People use to ask why is Picard bald, wouldn't they solve it in his century? And I think it was Roddenberry who would say they could fix it but they don't care about appearances like that. I suspect smoking would be similar, just wouldn't be cool in the future to do
MsJeffreyF well who would want to cover up Patrick Stewart’s glorious chrome dome?
@@battlesheep2552 That is a fair point.
Interviewer: So what's wrong with Discovery?
Nimoy: Well pretty much everything.
In german the have a word called unheimlich. That means a gut feeling(about that something in star Trek today is wrong).
@@JK-Visions the unheimlich maneuver must be when you have a gut feeling that someone is choking. haha haha haha
That never happened lol. Nimoy passed away two years before Discovery was even a thing
@@TravKidd It's a joke NPC.
More click bait. Trek should be above such nonsense.
Its a credit to him that any actor cared enough about pretending to be an alien scientist to actually help in the world building. Nowadays i doubt many 'actors' do more than learn the script.
Man, I miss Leonard Nimoy.
Hinatachan360, we all do.
Look at the "aliens": ruclips.net/p/PLnKCW8kKJXXVqNLDSVwcXomGmP3wUZtgM
Yeah, I go fishing with Shatner now but it's not the same.
Hinatachan360 facts
Someone, somewhere has a napkin with Leonard Nimoy's DNA.
Tbf, Leonard Nimoy was the sort of man to default to the expression "to render him unconscious" in a casual conversation. I think the majority of television writers aren't anywhere near his level.
They don't have to be, the problem is they don't even try to be.
@@Commander_Shepard. You can't don't even try!
@@dragnipur4746 What are you talking about little buddy? 🙂
@@Commander_Shepard. Riker to Data in that hologram the alien child wanted him to play in.
@@wednesdaysdoll 240 Characters Towards Stupidity.
Nimoy: "Let's use our imagination!"
Disney, CBS, ...: No!!!!!!!
Leonard Nimoy pretty much had to invent Spock. I'm not sure who said it (although I think it was Harlan Ellison), but someone closely associated with Star Trek said Gene Roddenberry's idea of character development was to give an actor three eyes or something. He wasn't good at making up the characters' abilities, quirks, and personality traits. The actors had to develop those themselves.
Roddenberry is overrated and somehow people have convinced themselves that the man who tried to abandon the show in Season 2 is the end all and be all of what created Star Trek.
Wasn't Spock originally supposed to look like the Devil?
That was his "character" in Roddenberry's pitch "let's put an alien who looks like the Devil on the bridge and it'll show how humanity learned to stop judging by appearances".
It's a nice idea, a nice "statement" to make, but there's no character there - there are some possible stories you could tell based on that (comparing Religion & Myths to the reality of the characters actions), but the character itself was just another member of the crew (as that was the whole point - "they're just like us once you learn to look passed the pointy ears, red skin and cloven hooves").
Then sensible people got involved and came up with the idea of a pointy eared alien who was driven by logic and reason, compared to humans driven by passion and emotion, and said "now we have something that we might actually be able to put on TV".
And then, the writers and cast developed the actual character (and eventually whole species and culture) from there. Step by step.
Arguably the whole core theme of Star Trek was built around that central conflict between human emotion and cold rational logic (certainly a lot of the best moments involved exploring this conflict - along with comparisons between humanity's past - or present - to the humanity of the future).
50 years ago Leonard Nimoy was smarter than the STD writing team. I can only image how completely he would have taken them apart today.
*REAL REASON: They told Nimoy the prop was expensive and if he broke it, they'd fire his ass.*
Nice comment and so true
The folks infiltrating all the various IPs these days don't know or respect the source material, or the fans. It's just a tool to them to advance their own ideology, which is that everyone but themselves are racist sexist bigot villains who must be shamed into line with their condescending and misplaced hypocritical sermons.
Star Trek Discovery stole the plans and the majority of the art from a guy who made a videogame called "the tardigrades" (or something like that). They are actually in a dispute.
Spock was a pacifist, like my grandma was a virgin:
ruclips.net/video/wHMnm9sFo1w/видео.html
"Violence brought respect .... respect brought peace" ... hmmm.. sounds more like Starship Troopers than Star Trek.
Someone's watched Verhoeven's pile of trash one too many times I think.
The irony is that the book is as anti-war as it gets. Everything is there to actually *stop* you from joining the military...
@@ravenshrike Verhoeven's film is very obviously satirical.
@@ravenshrike You missed the point of Starship Troopers.
I'm from the Federation and I say kill them all!
When actors stood up for their characters and franchise. Sir Patrick Stewart could learn a thing from this.
I think he is too old to do this. And perhaps he loves another take on his character. He is an amazing actor first.
The interviewer is a young Barbara Frum. She was a news person with Canada's CBC in the 60's, 70's and 80's.
Leonard Nimoy brought class and vision to Star Trek
Star Trek was a hopeful future of man kind. Now writers are just stealing ideas from dudes making flash games and squeezing a bunch of action special effects to make it "original"
Well, they got caught and the lawsuit is ongoing unless CBS settles before it gets more expensive.
It's not as if they have a lot of cash to spend now...
@@AvengerII I know I just figured I would put a line out for those unaware to look into it on their own.
And season 3 of Discovery is coming. Your opinion means less than shit.
@@ardillarojo that doesn't mean it's a good show lol
@@ardillarojo Yet, here you are. Interesting.
As a child I was always impressed by how dignified Spock was. The others would all be jumping about, grunting and crumpling their draylon, and in would walk Spock and pinch, flop, job done.
I lived the scene where the crew were all acting silly to baffle a computer and all Sock did was say to two identical female robots "I love you, but I hate you". When they protested that they were identical, he replied "And that is why". Bingo, two defunct robots.
Spock was never the “physical tough”
A being of great intellect, wisdom and patience.
But also 2 times stronger than a human.
And when Spock was “riled up” you knew you were about to see some stuff!
Specially the look on kirks face when he knew he had pushed Spock too far and was about to get thrashed! 🤣
Yes! 🤣
Thats why spock is so cool vulcans are one of the most phsyically strong races in the alpha quadrant and can snap most species necks easily but spock barely ever fights and when he does its so stylistic and methodical he only ever applys exaclty as much force as he needs despite being able to obliterate his opponents
"Splitting hair" Knocking out someone with a gun causes a concussion. Vulcan pinch does no brain damage.
Yes, I thought that. It's pretty sad that she can't tell the difference between beating someone up, and gently rendering him unconscious!
Spock was a pacifist, like my grandma was a virgin:
ruclips.net/video/wHMnm9sFo1w/видео.html
That bimbo was completely outclassed by Nimoy
@Srithor Only those infected by feminisim, which is sadly a lot while it infest our academia.
But in "action" stories, knocking people out is treated like a quick and easy way to incapacitate people. Her point is that the neck pinch still basically brute force, physical domination, it only seems more intellectual. There are many points where Kirk knocks people out, and it isn't treated as any more or less savage than the neck pinch, because the intention is the same.
Really the most amazing part of this is an interviewer actually challenging what the actor is saying, "Of course you're being violent you realize." Today interviewers are purely shills, tasked to pander to the actor and make them and the show look wonderful and perfect.
I wasn't sure I'd heard that right on the first viewing so had to replay it and turn up the volume.
Except when they are politically aligned against the interviewee. Then they love to drag in nonrelated topics to attempt blatant smears.
I couldn't believe she was talking about the Vulcan nerve pinch in the same sentence with violence....while Vietnam was going on.
Yeah, it made for interesting conversations. You can tell when people are just paid mouths.
actually she's an idiot, saying that, he wasn't being violent. he wasn't inflicting damage or pain, he was rendering the subject inert and unconscious with an almost benign act, a simple and calm application of pressure, completely temporary, to render impotent the will of the opponent. The vulcan neck pinch is winning without fighting, true skill, pure Sun Tzu, and unique.
This very concisely demonstrates what's wrong with the new Star Treks, all of them. At some point a decision was made to turn Star Trek into Star Wars. Nothing wrong with Star Wars. I love Star Wars. But Star Trek was about a hopeful future. It was about exploration. It was about discovery. It was about finding common ground, and where possible, solutions that did not involve extraneous violence. Was there action? Was there violence? Yes. A show that was always capable of settling everything peacefully and without conflict wouldn't be very interesting. But it was always made very clear that it was a last resort, and usually came about due to a misunderstanding. The Federation's first choice was always not to interfere and not to use violence. Self defense, certainly, if necessary; but never the aggressor. The big thing was that Star Trek made us WANT to be in that future. It gave us hope during a time when we were doing civil defense drills in elementary school, and tensions were high with the Soviet Union, that everything was going to be all right! Current iterations of Star Trek don't.
Funny that you mention Star Wars, guess who destroyed both Star Trek AND Star Wars? Yes JJ Abrams
Really well put. I think maybe you have to be old now, and had watched Star Trek as a kid when the episodes first came out, to really understand - exactly what you describe, in the context of the times.
And Leonard Nimoy's co-creation of Spock with Gene Roddenberry, was VITAL to what you describe. He helped guide Captain Kirk, indirectly, on that path just with his logic and "efficiency" - not needing violence as such a constant core resource used by all other adventure stories. That subconscious, suggested hope for our future is why the original Star Trek will forever be one of the great TV series of all time. So many great lessons in those episodes, without being preachy. It was relatively high intelligence fun.
I'm so glad that I am not the only one COMPLETELY annoyed with the New Star Treks. The arrogance of the creators/writers disgusts me. How could they turn such an inspiring ideal into such TYPICAL Hollywood BULL SHIT!? The SWEARING alone pissed me off (I swear, but I don't want that shit in Start Trek!), so you can imagine how the rest of the crap made me feel.
Boring. you probably thought start trek 1 was the best of the franchise.
@@youarealooser121 - The END. (Your name says it all)
Can we just agree that any installment produced after the mid-90s should just be called "Star Trek: Unnecessary Continuity Fuck" and be done with it?
If you'll extend that to 2001, I'm with you. That's when Voyager ended, and Kathryn (Borgslayer) Janeway is my favorite captain.
I hadn't really noticed what a fantastic voice Nimoy had. Its like butter! Thanks for sharing this!
Look at the "aliens": ruclips.net/p/PLnKCW8kKJXXVqNLDSVwcXomGmP3wUZtgM
Nimoy was a genius on so many levels.
I think it was Nimoy's and Shatner's voices that really were the brick and mortar of the original series. Patrick Stewart carried the tradition on.
Tobacco butter
kinda hard to recognize his acting chops with Spock being such a deadpan character. You really see his full acting range, and charisma watch the old mission impossible series. I stumbled across a couple reruns and barely recognized him.
Start Trek is supposed to be about hope. The idea is that in the future we will get over our differences and evolve into something better. We can then make observations about our current society by comparing it to how our society should be. It is a very modern idea. The problem is that so many writers and producers have a post-modern view of things. What is the point of trying to evolve if we are just likely to blow it all up in the end anyway? So newer series shows people with tons of technology but with all of the same problems we have now. The new series loses that feeling of hope and it no longer challenges us to be be better. It is a shame that we have lost the old fashion idea about the future.
How many engineers and scientists today are where they are because of their love for Star Trek? Will anyone today watching Discovery go "I want to be an engineer?" No. That is why Discovery is a total failure.
Even in DS9, with all its realism and grimmess, the message was still the same, and was possibly even more powerful. Even in an horrible and grim universe there is still hope.
Season two is very different from season one and much closer to the classic StarTrek, with it's hope, curiosity and peaceful vision of the future.
I mean I also didn't like season 1, but it makes sense that it was this hopeless mess considering it was in a state of war with the possiblity of Earth being wiped out.
@@Paulafan5 Since you are clearly omniscient, could you tell me the winning numbers of the next powerball lotto, or maybe just all the Superbowl winners for the next decade? Oh, right you can't, because you are just making shit up. How silly. LOTS OF PEOPLE are likely going to be insiped by STD. It's Trek, it does that.
Paulafan5 so true
Nimoy is so eloquent, just speaking off the cuff here. He is in every interview I've ever seen of him. Could this be what happens when you put the mastery of your profession above the politics of the day?
Actually, Trek was always very much about pushing left ideas. They just don't seem so "left" anymore when you watch it, everything just seems normal. Just like discovery won't seem left in 60 years. This show sparked tons of outrage from conservatives in the 60's. They didn't care, they kept at it, even though letters came pouring in. One of the reasons I loved Star Trek, they taught us to be accepting of differences, that differences didn't really mean that much, everyone, everywhere, deserves respect , until it's proven, they mean to do harm to others. it was kinda a big part of the story, no?
@@Dropla Awesome Dropla.
Great video.I miss Mr.Nimoy and wish the modern treks would at least try for at least a semblance of intelligence.
Leonard Nimoy really invested himself in the character of Spock. It’s really terrible that Alex Kurtzman and CBS don’t understand Star Trek at all, nor do they want learn about the message Star Trek conveys.
No, I'm certain they understand it very well. It's the reason they want to drag it through the mud.
Yeah well the message is really what f***** up Star Trek! I got tired of all their preaching long ago. everybody hates "Enterprise" for some reason(personally I think Star Trek hates testosterone) but I think the worst of the hypocrisy is charging us to watch a show that preaches against the use of money!!
True, but the actors also bare some responsibility. Just look at the original TNG actors reprising their roles in Picard. Just money grabbing at this point.
@@noelv1976 for what it's worth, Stewart did say in interviews that he would only reprise the role of Piccard for a very good reason. And that reason is because friends & fans have told him over the years that in times of despair, seeing him and Star Trek gave them hope for the future. And now that we live in such dark times, he wanted to give everyone hope. So regardless of how bad the show is, I give him credit for that.
@@garysnow1475 the message is the entire point of the show. Roddenberry wrote it as a vision of a bright future, where things are better than they are today. I agree with the point about hating masculinity, as progressives over the past 40 years mistakenly embraced feminism for humanism. But Star Trek only preaches against the use of money in a society that has replicators, and doesn't need and/or depend on trade for goods & services. It's not preaching a moneyless society unconditionally.
An interviewer once asked Leonard Nimoy what he thought when he was told he'd got the part of Mr Spock.
He said that he couldn't believe his ears.
*rim shot*
"YEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"
As the Great Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius once said thousands of years ago
"There was once a Dream called Star Trek. People would only speak of it in whispers
To speak of it any louder and it would VANISH!"
"Of course, you're being violent, you realize, you're only splitting hairs and making yourself feel good."
I wonder if she understood what he was describing. I realize that the Vulcan nerve pinch wasn't exactly common knowledge at this point, but...did she think he was talking about dressing up the act of killing a guy?
For anyone wondering what this archaic word "class" means. THIS is what it means.
🖖
"Violence brought respect, respect brought peace."
"No."
"If it's not running around punching people, chasing and running hitting jumping."
He just described Into Darkness's Spock chasing Khan hahaha
According to the thumbnail, it’s amazing that Mr. Nimoy can critique a Tv series that was created long after his passing.
When I was young in the 60's, the Spock character inspired me to be disciplined during a time of chaos when the spirit of "if it feels good do it" was prevalent.
@Critical Joe Like homeopathie...
@Critical Joe you're missing out brah
@Critical Joe don't knock it til you tried it
@Critical Joe vaginas got aids too. Aids isn't created through dick + butt.
@Critical Joe Lol wut? He said HOMEOPATHY. Do you not know what that is? It has nothing to do with homosexuality.
"Sir, there is a multi-legged creature crawling on your shoulder."
"Fascinating."
Ha, I just watched that episode, where the computer simulation is fighting a war that results in people being drafted into an incinerator to produce real casualties.
@@jabercrom I loved that episode!
Every Arachnophobe across the planet: *PANIK*
An example of a Vulcan lying!
"Dimensionally creatively and with integrity."
Something STD lacks desperately.
Wow I really miss this guy he wasn't just an actor he was an actual intellect my mother had several of his books watched his show "in search of "...RIP Mr Nimoy ... you are dearly missed =
That's why anytime Vulcans became violent in the shows you took notice and had an impact.
Like every time in the new Trek Movies where it explicitly served the story and you took notice?
But this time you can somehow tell from 2 second trailer it will serve no purpose?
My usual reaction was "gotta be a Romulan in disguise."
@@mytruepower2 While that would not have been the first time (Datas Day), they have like 4 Members of his family around to identify any Romulan Imposter. A romulan Brainwashing (like what happened to Geodi once) seems more likely.
Plus we know he ties into the main story.
Also this was a 2v1 at least. Not a situation where spock has the *leisure* of using the nerve pinch on all possible targets.
If you consider how long it always took to apply it, I would say it was a sneak attack only action.
@@christopherg2347
True. Evil mirror universe Spock didn't try the nerve pinch when he was being attacked by three men at once, and they still had to hit him over the head with a sculpture to stop him.
Still, it's very, very odd for vulcans to resort to violence if they're not in the pon farr.
@@mytruepower2 "Still, it's very, very odd for vulcans to resort to violence if they're not in the pon farr."
I would generalize it as "if they are not emotionally compromized".
This is Section 31 we are talking about. I would bet they use drugs that emotionally compromize him. Or the whole part about it being a 2v1 at least.
“You really should teach me that”
“I have tried captain”
Amazing how Leonard pioneered both the Vulcan nerve pinch and Vulcan "V" spread fingers hand gesture live long and prosper from a Judaic greeting. As Spock would say : Fascinating .
Leonard Nimoy a donné vie au personnage, de Spock ainsi il a inventé les gestes les attitudes, la démarche digne d’un « vulcain « il avait compris comment fonctionnait Star Trek original, une vision d’un monde meilleur, le personnage est tant aimé car il est puissant , sans en avoir l’air , c’est à dire sans armes , à l’écoute des autres. D’ailleurs il n’y a que le personnage de Spock qui a traversé le temps jusqu’à aujourd’hui. Nous aimeront toujours Spock, car mr Nimoy avait l’esprit clair, et futuriste il savait exactement ce que son personnage inspiré au gens. Leonard Nimoy était un formidable acteur, une intelligence rare .il nous manque beaucoup
Your channel seems to be only anti-STD material...
... I like that.
Stereo typical defensive comment
Red letter media sure doesn't like it lol
Nope, there are several on RUclips that do reviews of STD, that like me think I its garbage.
@@georgeryan8267 You didn't read the whole thing, did you?
@@argosfe7445 it's a joke
I am not talking about your comment
The people in charge of making shows and movies these days are mental midgets compared to the actors/writers/directors of old. It's really depressing.
Yeah but at least they're "diverse" now.
@@0raffie0 Yeah, we get to see people of all colours and races producing garbage! Lucky us! lol
Diversity is a non-issue. The original show was built on it. It has always been that way.
If you don’t like the writing then blame the writers and the producers, not diversity.
It’s fine what these guys are writing isn’t cannon as we know it. Check out midnightsedge video about prime canon it will make you feel much better.
@@Niiiiith Also, if it makes people feel better, Enterprise isn't in the same timeline as TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager. It's an alternate timeline created by First Contact.
What an amazing artist, actor, articulate, attractive dude… with philosophical concerns about glorifying violence - and so invents an “alien so anything could happen” beautiful HUMANITARIAN way of neutralising a violent opponent with a clever neck pinch! ☺️
This interview is friggin awesome
“Violence brought respect, respect brought peace.”
Metron: By sparing your helpless enemy, who surely would have destroyed you, you demonstrated the advanced trait of mercy. Something we hardly expected. We feel that there may be hope for your kind. Therefore, you will not be destroyed. It would not be... civilized. 1x18 - Arena
When "class" meant something other than just socio-economics.
Funny considering star trek portrays communistic society
@@jokurajunimi Yes and no, its more an idealized society that has found more value in discovering new things and less in owning things. The problem with communism will always be the human element, and how it clashes with our need to advance beyond our current station and obtain things of value, which in modern society is money and socal standing. Trek overcomes this by making the value more about discovery and maintaining the past (hense why you can have the Picard family run a vineyard while Jean-Luc is out captianing the flagship of the federation and both are seen as valuable to society). I agree Roddenberry railing against capitalism in TNG's early seasons is very off putting as that seems less like "Hey our society has just moved beyond material things becasue we have evolved to a point we can just make anything we need" and more into his own personal politics and him saying "look at how much better we are than people who want money" as he then proceeded to copyright everything so if you tried to recreate or distribute the show he could sue you.
@@TheSilverPhoenix100 i mean star trek is pretty much Marx' interpretation of communist utopia sooo yeaa
This shows how much a creative actor brings to the role.
Gene Roddenberry created a masterpiece and other artists added to it.
And then other artists diluted it
🖖
Each time I see one of your vids, where you go back so much just to prove some minor point showing discovery in bad light, investing so much time in such small issues, I feel happy and belive in people's combined effort to take this show off the air and unlinking it from the Star Trek brand for ever.
That was a popular trop for years. How many times was Batman knocked out by a villain in the sixties and 70's? How many times for the TV detective, like Mannix? If they can club you, they can shoot you. Leonard Nimoy brought a lot of artistic integrity to his performances that make them unforgettable more than 50 years later.
A writer wanted Spock to bonk a villain on the head with the butt of his phaser?
Didn't phasers have a stun setting, yet?
This was the 6th episode of season 1 of im correct. Early trek is very weird as it was still so new and not fleshed out. I don’t even think the federation nor the prime directive was introduced till late season 1 or season 2 I can’t remember. But I believe they did stun someone in the man trap so hey I guess they just wanted to do something else instead of phasers.
Bear in mind that Man Trap was, I believe, the sixth episode filmed. They did not run them in order.
@@cr3aam388 plus they gotta pay for the special effect every time they se a phaser. now it takes 5 seconds to add a phser effect in after effects so everyone shooting everyone at the drop of a hat.
The possible in-universe explanation would be the fact the ship automatically detects if someone uses a phaser. And before you say something about cameras or other sensors they can be used to know where someone is, not what he is doing.
Star Trek 6: The Undiscovered Country actually answered that question. Close enough range even on Stan a phaser is deadly.
His demeanour and terms of phrase remind me of Bruce Lee’s interviews, anyone else pick up the same vibe?
Being thoughtful and reflective of the way you put yourself out there and present your art.
TheBlarggle We need a world with more people like Bruce and Leonard
Wait ,they aren't the same person ?
Absolutely yes. I felt it, but wouldn't have articulated it. Thank you.
Whoa, I was actually thinking the same thing, but didn’t expect a comment thread of others who felt that, too. Very cool 🐉 🖖🏼
Knocking people over the head was very common in movies and TV shows. It was a standard way for a hero to knock out his opponent from behind. But blows to the head are incredibly damaging and potentially fatal. It isn't a safe way to render the victim unconscious. Well done for Mr Nimoy to suggest a more civilised approach used by Vulcans. His reasoning behind it shows someone who had empathy for his character and a belief that violence does not solve problems, although it does help when you beam down to a hostile planet.
This is the best interview I've seen in years. God bless you Leonard Nimoy.
The original series and the next generation were fond of finding ulterior motives to violence. Discovery is just the next sci-fi action flick. It's kind of sad that they've reduced themselves to everybody else.
Everything that made Star Trek special is long gone. They just stole the title & character names to exploit.
@MGazT so you completely missed the point.
🥺
@@robinlillian9471 yes, the literal definition of decadence.
This is what happens in corporate capitalism. Masterpieces are sold to rich crooks that use them for their personal gains/agenda.
Money ruins everything. It's only a matter of time.
In the late 60s you had action instead of violence (at least in Star Trek) , in 2019 the message is violence brought respect, respect brought peace....
Dear god we are regressing🤭!!
"A beaten dog may fear you, but the second you turn your back he's gonna strike."
@@InfernosReaper Never heard of that one before
I don't believe in a "god" however i do agree that we have regressed in certain areas.
Wrong. Society doesn't regress because of bad writing. It regresses when a country spends billions every year for war, has 1,000 bases across the planet, had bombed 50cointries since WW2, caused humanitarian catastrophes and refugees which is then destroying other countries, has cities that are war zones with 5,000 shot every year. When war & death becomes your nations main driving force, it's normal that STD reflects a regressive society for limited writers for whom this is normal.
The big irony being that the STD writers would seem to be self described liberals who obsess over identity politics. Almost like this isn't incompatible with the status quo :P
Leonard was a truly creative individual. It's sad how devoid of creativity people are today.
Truly. I don't believe creativity is dead, I just don't think people with originally creative ideas are given a chance. Everything nowadays is a sequel or a remake because it ensures revenue. Creativity is a monetary risk that many of these producers and companies are afraid of.
"Violence brought respect, and respect brought peace"
And how long can that peace last if it is only enforced by fear and violence? by your logic the Klingon Empire is the most peaceful in all the Beta Quadrant, my question to you is should the Federation then follow suit by annexing sovereign worlds and beating down all those who oppose such an action, making ourselves no more better than the humans of centuries past?
Violence, or otherwise the threat of force (physical or otherwise) is the foundation of civilization... But like you said it is not enough (especially when scaled up like that, it barely works beyond tribal levels; north Korea requires religious devotion on top of violence, for example)
Force can bring about temporary peace, but it cannot maintain it properly. Conversation, cooperation, mutual benefits and understanding is needed to properly maintain peace. Happiness is needed to maintain peace.
That statement does belong in a Star Trek universe, but it would be the universe that Star Trek fans would least like to see upheld and exemplified.
This is the Glory of Original Trek!!!
The original trek was excruciatingly predictable
@@crispymidget8531 at least it was entertaining. the new one is so lame, I could've written a better show. we are living in an era where star trek fan shows are better.
@@kaptainkafir6231 I find discovery entertaining, difference in taste I guess. What I'd love to see is a trek featuring capitan wesley crusher
@Sipseyhiker Ah that timeless trope.. poking fun at preceding generations. Been going on for thousands of years.
@Sipseyhiker whatever gives you that illusion of superiority dude
"No."
- Leonard Nimoy
This is so fascinating. As someone who loves martial arts movies, the idea of disabling an opponent is often scene in Chinese wuxia movies where a master who has the ability to disarm an opponent with his Qi and pinching of nerves was always carried out by the good guy as a sign of mercy.
It helped that Leonard Nimoy was actually a master of vulcan nerve pinch techniques in real life.
So they didn't have to keep flicking from edit to edit in a confusing frame-by-frame mishmash designed to pretend that the performer and director have real skills they actually lack.
1:40 The most important thing the current Star Trek series lack ... INTEGRITY ... it's truly a beautiful clip, RIP Leonard Nimoy, you are indeed missed.
That's quite Ironic given that Major Grin is also lacking integrity by not showing you what REALLY happened in the Discovery Spock fight scene.
That fight wasn't really Spock, it was an Evil Ai using a hologram to frame Spock for murder.
But when we see what really happened later on, Spock is seen simply giving those guys a neck pinch and escaping WITHOUT using violence, which is in keeping with what the great man L. Nimoy is saying!
How clever was this man speaking. He was the best of old series.
The Vulcan death grip was a brilliant move thought up by Leonard Nimoy. and of course it stayed in the series. and the way it was utilized was perfect. because Leonard Nimoy could use it in such a way. that a fellow actor would know that it was their que to fall when they would feel the pinch. without any off camera direction. and like he said it was a better alternative to a more abrupt violent action.
Mr Nimoy was a class act. Intelligent and a great actor.
Excellent comments. How is it that we the audience and fans know what we loved about Star Trek but the writers of this show don't seem to have a clue?
Because the fans are stupid and wrong. It is up to a new generation of directors to teach us that what he have liked for 50 years is bad.
Because you are a fucking idiot just like a small handful of other idiots claiming to know what Gene Roddenberry wanted and what he would have hated. Just get a fucking life. You can easily just not watch it. Fucking outrage junkies is what you losers are. It's pathetic.
@@volgawolfhounds741 >"Why do you care so much that something you've loved for years is being dragged through the mud lol, just stop caring and don't watch"
>"FUCK ALL OF YOU YOU'RE JUST MAD FOR NO FUCKING REASON FUCK"
The absolute state of 'fans' defending STD
I watched ten minutes of episode 1 of season 2.
Never never again. This is totally JJ Abrams Star Trek. Discovery doesn't fit into the classic timeline AT ALL.
Look at the "aliens": ruclips.net/p/PLnKCW8kKJXXVqNLDSVwcXomGmP3wUZtgM
God bless Leonard Nimoy. The men who made Star Trek were good men. Now, the children run that great franchise into the gutter.
He's Literally Anti-Semitic he was not a good man
@@calebwalker9090 please explain your reasoning.
@@notbobdavis6026 You know the iconic Vulcan hello he came up with it for the show but he didn’t actually come up with it it’s actually a Jewish symbol an ancient one that’s not really used and claimed credit for it
@@notbobdavis6026 That among a lot of other things that I don’t really remember
@@calebwalker9090 Brilliant statement, you win the Interwebs, snowflake. Oh and btw, Lenard Nimoy was Jewish. However, facts should never come ahead of feelings, amIright?
The idea of violence bringing respect which leads to respect bringing peace is really questionable. It is not even just contradictory to Original Star Trek. It almost makes no sense in real life. Leonard Nimoy knew something the writing team behind Star Trek Discovery doesn't.
This video is misleading. The suggestion for violence by Burnham, was only introduced as an unconventional method the Vulcans used previously, to combat an unconventionally violent enemy in the Klingons. Violence is what Klingons do, so Burnham, using logic, surmised that violence is all they would respond to. And to be clear, her actions started a war and got her arrested and shamed which reinforces the original Star Trek theme, that violence is not what Starfleet is about.
@@jamesonboxingfan4274 So, Burnham's '' Vulcan logic'' was; to defeat the enemy, be the enemy.
Real logic however, in Star Trek itself as in real life, shows us that, doing that, the enemy wins anyway by turning you into what THEY are.
The message of Star Trek and wise people the world over; violence only begets violence. It might be a regrettable necessity, but never a solution; or at least in the Star Trek mindset, that Nimoy exemplifies here, it never should be. TOS A private Little War is one example of Star Trek being quite eloquent in that regard; and based on real life.
In Kurtzmantrek however, it is always the first and only solution.
In canon, Vulcans warred almost up to extinction before they understood this and changed themselves deeply to avoid it. And they of all people would choose it, especially against a people that revels in it? THAT is MOST illogical. That alone in S1 E1 quickly showed us Kurtzmantrek is not Star Trek.
Everyone knows you don't calm down an angry dog by roughing it up. Everyone but Kurtzmantrek's Jedi Vulcans and Michael Burnham apparently.
@@odojang Klingons are not angry dogs where they flare up and calm down, they have a culture of war all throughout Star Trek. This is the language in which they spoke during this time period of Star Trek Discovery. In Discovery, the Klingons attacked Vulcan ships without warning, so the LOGIC was to respond to them in a language the Klingons would understand. The Vulcans would fire first, until the Klingons left them alone. If an enemy, who is just as or more powerful than you, with a culture of war and their eyes are fixed upon you, logic dictates words and peace will not be enough. And as the story goes, this was a setup! The Klingons wanted this war to unite all Klingons against a common enemy anyway.
Burnham simply tried to copy the Vulcans blueprint. And the main theme of Star Trek remained intact because the war turned out to be a travesty(because Burnham killed T'kuvma), and the conflict was settled via armistice. And the entire series of Discovery is in line with Star Trek's main theme anyway. In my opinion Discovery carries that theme with the best of them.
If there is a version of Star Trek that should be under this type of Scrutiny, try the movies where Chris Pine plays Kirk. Full of violence and anger.
@@jamesonboxingfan4274 I never said Klingons were angry dogs. I suggested however that, LIKE angry dogs, you don't calm them down by biting them first. That is illogical.
But even more so, Klingons see violence as their way of life, their very identity. That's why they want war; not for gain, but for the sake of it, to be what they are; as you point out so well. Thus, by offering them violence, you will NEVER defuse theirs; you will actually nourrish it, validate it, serve it. That is why the Vulcan Hello is totally illogical.
Answering them with '' a language they will understand'' is the excuse of the resourceless weak-minded, not a logical position, let alone an effective one. Especially from a people (the Vulcans) who revere peace, knowing war to be a failed solution to end war, this weak argument is also completely illogical.
If you beleive war is the only solution to war, it means you have no belief in peace. Nothing could be less Vulcan (and true) than that. Or less Star Trek than that.
And the conflict did not end with an armistice. It ended with a genocidal blackmail; you keep in line or we destroy your whole homeworld and people. DIS's central theme is Might Makes Right. You call this Star Trek?
But you're right about Abramstrek. And Kurtzmantrek is it's obvious direct offspring in every detail. Recall that Kurtzman is also he who wrote this Nu-Kirk... and trigger-happy, strike-first-strike-hard-no-mercy-sir! Burnham. They are an item; violence as the solution to problems. in other words, Not Star Trek.
@@odojang Yeah, I get what you are saying, but the Klingons struck the Vulcans first, and without warning. I think it is illogical to think peace will be made peacefully, with a people who crave war/battle and already seek to attack you. Logic would dictate that you deal with them accordingly for your own safety, especially when peace with the Klingons have failed numerous times.
And to be honest, while I like Star Trek and Starfleet's ideals, not everyone in the galaxy is going to adhere to them or even acknowledge them. Some people HAVE to be fought, like Hitler. Do you think the world could have dealt with Nazi Germany in a peaceful manner? I think the war/opposition of the Klingons adds realism to the story. And some people along the way, like Burnham, will stumble and lose their way, this is human nature. But she picked herself up when given a second chance and rose to meet Starfleet's highest ideals, with her and her crew handling themselves admirably all throughout the show. You can't tell me that Discovery and it's crew didn't represent Starfleet well. They totally did, in the face of all types of insurmountable circumstances.
And let us not forget that it was the Klingons who were waiting for their chance to start this war. With or without Burnham, this war would have happened eventually.
Also Leonard Nimoy understood that children would be watching Star Trek.. and he didn’t want them to be mimicking him hitting someone, and you’re less likely to hurt someone pretending to do a Vulcan neck pinch than hitting them with a phaser.
Excellent point. I’ve been a fan since 1970 and that had never occurred to me.
Leonard Nimoy aka Spock was my childhood hero
And now he's a murderer.
@@MaestroTJS How is he a murderer?
@@sivamachina3160 I guess you haven't been watching the latest episodes of Discovery. He may turn out not to be one, but his psychiatric "doctors" have been claiming he killed 3 doctors.
@@MaestroTJS it's a story... We don't even know how it will play out.
Look at the "aliens": ruclips.net/p/PLnKCW8kKJXXVqNLDSVwcXomGmP3wUZtgM
Spock was Artimus Gordon
Kirk was James West
Nice parallel. But the original 1960s Gordon & West. Not the 90s. ;)
The guy is brilliant, always was,straight to the point in terms of a larger evolutionary picture as well!
Between interviews like this, and his directorial work on journey home, I feel like Nemoy really understood Gene Roddenberry's vision
Actually, the two were frequently at odds. Roddenberry sometimes resented Nimoy because Nimoy changed the original vision. But mostly the show benefitted, and I think the show was better for it.
The original Star Trek was hope and social awareness. Discovery is not. Discovery is just an MCU wanna be, Game of Thrones wanna be, Westworld wanna be, where it wants to garner a significant fan base based upon drama. To make that work they did need to go back in time before the original series so as to pick up new fans but the public never got the message. As a SciFi fan the drama series like the Sopranos on HBO don't draw me. Babylon 5 and Frascape yes. I do enjoy the Netflix MCU series but they are the exception for me. What worked in the 1960s won't work today. That I get. But chasing other people's comets? What's the point if it is Star Trek. Chase the Star Trek comet.
Sarek laid this idea on Burnham, she didn't come up with herself. This is practical *Infinite diversity (in) infinite combinations* , in practice, in the real world. You deal with the Klingons by respecting them enough to talk to them in the 'language' they culturally understand.
They also shove "woke" SJW politics into everything but in an aggressive, authoritarian and hamfisted way. Many of which aren't even really progressive once you deconstruct them. They're just popular with people who identify and think of themselves as such. TNG was moral and progressive in a healthy way. A genuinely good way. Discovery is like the weird, religious extremist version of TNG.
I can show my nephews and nieces along with their friends(ranging from 9 to 21 depending on which group ) Star Trek from the original series all the way to Enterprise and they sit there absolutely captivated by it completely in love with optimism and hope for a better tomorrow the all too human characters and the deep philosophy being posed my friend Star Trek when done right is a timeless treasure
@@michaelkeha It's prolly pretty 'exotic' to them considering the repetitive and predictible format every overly long laundry detergent commercial now seems to want to emulate.
Even Babylon 5 was more sophisticated than this. The entire series was about trying to establish peace in a galaxy torn apart by war. Violence was always a last resort for them and it was made clear to the audience that violence only undermined the mission.
The glorification of violence will always be uncool. ☮️ 💖 🤘
That's why the Discovery Spock fight scene was a fake made by an evil Ai trying to frame Spock for murder. He actually just gave them a neck pinch and escaped without violence.
Does anyone know when this interview was done?
Amazed to know Leonard created the neck pinch. That was his iconic move. We made sure not to miss this series every Sunday morning . The original actors build the characters ground up. New actors playing these characters do not have the flexibility to add or remove anything from these characters which limits their creativity.
I did not give Discovery the time of day when in a trailer them use a term "A Vulcan Hello" and it's meaning was to go in guns blazing. What a disgrace.
No Captain Pike for you then?
@@manickreations Pike series had potential but all of that potential dies when you put a clown like Alex Kurtzman in charge.
@@Saddler1944 If you didnt watch season 2 of discovery then you cant talk, Capt pike kicked ass the whole season....
@@manickreations Every clip I saw of Pike he was surrounded by women second guessing him and ignoring his orders. If 99% of the show is trash and 1% is passable because the actor is good does not redeem the show.
@@manickreations that's rather missing the point, no? Treck isn't supposed to be an action flick, at least not most of the time.
Leonard Nimoy was a great inspiration to me. I thought logically for a long time and still do but it too me a while to understand that Spock had emotion too and that he could control and understand with his friends help. Nimoy has helped me understand and work through my own issues so much like I believe he has for many people. He did say once that he was everyone's adoptive grandfather and that made me feel great in my worst times. Leonard Nimoy was an absolute treasure that this world couldn't afford to lose so early. He will be missed by many
You should always think logically, the other option is to respond emotionally, which isn't thinking at all.
Kirk punched his shirt off nearly every episode and people gloried in it. I call...WTF?
The title should be, "Nimoy is an amazing actor..." Love ya Nimoy --- One of the best performances in trek history.
God the man turly understood the message the series he was in was trying to portray. A bright vision.
CBS just really doesn't understand Star Trek!
Just like Disney doesn't understand Star Wars.
William Burns are you sure about that?
Haters gonna Hate....
@@manickreations JunkTrek takes beloved characters from previous series and humiliates and degrades them. It tortures one to death. It tries to negate Deep Space Nine and Voyager and everything they came to mean to us.
It is the producers of JunkTrek who are the haters. They hate the fans and they hate Star Trek itself to the degree that they are trying to destroy it.
The haters who produce JunkTrek will not succeed because the fan base is stronger than they are. When TNG finished its seven-year run, I hadn't even been born. My generation are the new Star Trek generation, and we will see JunkTrek off and see the return to true Star Trek. A positive, hopeful Star Trek in which men and women treat one another with respect.
It's not that they don't understand, it's that they don't *care* to understand. They want to make the next Game of Thrones, make a billion dollars, & move on. They aren't out to make good television, they're out to make a quick buck. It's unfortunate, I actually *like* a lot of the stuff in Discovery, but the whole is less than the sum of its parts, not more.
Leonard Nimoy was absolutely brilliant. Not only did he invent the Vulcan nerve pinch, he also was the one who decided Spock, and by extension all Vulcans would be stoic when he chose to play the character as more reserved to contrast William Shatner’s energy as Kirk. He was as much responsible for the creation of Spock as Gene Roddenberry if not more so. It’s such a shame that Discovery treated his character so disrespectfully.
Hows it splitting hairs?
One ends with a concussion and possibly death.
The other ends with the victim waking up without injury mental or physical.