NTSB B-Roll: Investigators documenting the site of the Pilatus PC-12 airplane crash

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  • Опубликовано: 26 фев 2023
  • February 27, 2023: NTSB investigators document wreckage of the 02/24/2023 Pilatus PC-12 airplane crash site in Dayton, NV.

Комментарии • 164

  • @easttexan2933
    @easttexan2933 Год назад +28

    My sincere condolences to family members, loved ones, and friends to all who lost their lives in this terrifying accident. I pray knowledge can be learned from this that will prevent others from experiencing this type of horrible fate.

  • @bunnystuff2005
    @bunnystuff2005 Год назад +9

    Some of the best of us humans walking the planet earth went down in that plane...pure sadness. God bless them and all their loved ones.

  • @iitzfizz
    @iitzfizz Год назад +16

    They really need to put flight data recorders in these MEDEVAC air crafts

  • @kennethjohnson2967
    @kennethjohnson2967 Год назад +10

    The PC 12 as well as the PC24 are rated to fly as single pilot aircraft ! But i think there are certain times where there should be two pilots ! Med Vac aircraft being one of those ! I wonder if they had a icing problem on this flight ? Prayers for all on board !

  • @moriver3857
    @moriver3857 Год назад +7

    What a tragedy. Hard to imagine people were sitting around those windows. So sad, but single pilot at night in that k8nd of weather raises eyebrows.

  • @smudent2010
    @smudent2010 Год назад +11

    Ads-b was showing nearly a 30,000 fpm descent on impact, I was not expecting to see an aircraft at all...

    • @jimw1615
      @jimw1615 Год назад +2

      ADS-B data was lost during the descent well before impact with the ground, however.

    • @57Jimmy
      @57Jimmy Год назад +3

      @@jimw1615 looks like possibly with losing the horizontal stabilizer on breakup , the tail starts to fall as it is no longer flying itself. This could put the aircraft into a more flat trajectory with some forward momentum. But impacting at that speed, even possibly reduced somewhat, would certainly open it up as it is seen here.
      Such a horrible tragedy that will affect so, so many people.😢

    • @denniskwahl
      @denniskwahl Год назад +1

      30,000 fpm =hitting the ground at nearly 350 mph.

  • @sparty94
    @sparty94 Год назад +1

    tragic loss. my condolences to the families and loved ones.

  • @JG-mp5nb
    @JG-mp5nb Год назад +5

    Terribly saddening.

  • @DanFrederiksen
    @DanFrederiksen Год назад +5

    In better shape that I would have thought. Maybe it didn't continue straight down when it broke up mid air.

  • @lucymooch5821
    @lucymooch5821 Год назад +57

    How critical does a patient have to be , that they move them from one perfectly good hospital to another in the worst weather.

    • @williamfey62_40
      @williamfey62_40 Год назад +5

      Time is critical and if that hospital doesn’t have what the patient needs but another does then they will do what they can to move the patient. Another possibly is if this flight was hired by the patient (or friend or family) to relocate them to a hospital closer to maybe family.

    • @smudent2010
      @smudent2010 Год назад +6

      @@williamfey62_40 this company has had 4 accidents within a couple years I believe, it could have something to do with their practices

    • @lucymooch5821
      @lucymooch5821 Год назад +2

      @@williamfey62_40 Are you suggesting that a hospital does not have what a patient needs, and still calls itself a Hospital.

    • @lucymooch5821
      @lucymooch5821 Год назад +10

      I think there is much more going on here than patient care. More like some organisation getting kick backs along the way for transporting patients in weather that God does not go out in.

    • @Airpaycheck
      @Airpaycheck Год назад +10

      Transplant is one reason.

  • @robertwomack6015
    @robertwomack6015 Год назад +2

    Very sad indeed 😢

  • @57Jimmy
    @57Jimmy Год назад +5

    A lot of questions about being on auto pilot? Autopilots have their place and also their limitations. Air accident investigation reports and even aircraft manufacturers show that when autopilots exceed their limits of operation, they will disconnect faster than an F-18 pilot pulling the ejection handle!
    This has caught many unsuspecting pilots who are then instantly left with an aircraft that is now feeling the full brunt of the severe turbulence and will be out of control in a split second.😢

    • @F1fan007
      @F1fan007 Год назад +1

      That’s for sure. They normally will disengage in severe turbulence. It’s crazy to have gone flying knowing the turbulence that was reported. From what I understand, the medvac pilots don’t know anything about the patient or their condition prior to accepting the flight, so that their only focus is “should I and can I fly this mission?” without the external pressure of why they need the flight.

    • @wmdjohnson
      @wmdjohnson Год назад

      ​​@@F1fan007 the pilot was aware he was transporting an organ recipient, or at the very least a person in need of medical attention. The saddest part is that the patient was stable when they departed. Just had to get to Utah before the donated organ expired.

  • @henryford2736
    @henryford2736 Год назад +7

    I'm curious to know if any airlines were departing around that time or did they cancel flights?

    • @westsparks6844
      @westsparks6844 Год назад +7

      Not sure about the same time departures, but airlines cancelled flights in and out of Reno all day long due to visibility problems. We had heavy snow and wind all day long. Makes me wonder why this small plane would even attempt to fly. Guess we need to wait for answers.

  • @petebaranko5468
    @petebaranko5468 Год назад +7

    My suspicion is a de-ice system lock out due to accumulated moisture in the system. This is a known issue, but unless the pilot adopts the unwritten procedure to cycle the de-ice system prior to flight, it can have you taking off into icing where trapped moisture freezes and locks out your de-ice boots. Unfortunately the pilots finds out only after they have allowed enough ice to built up that they need the boots, then to have the de-ice system lock out leaving you with a ice loaded airplane. A resulting stalled wing would cause a roll to one side and if the pilot attempts to maintain altitude result in an accelerated stall inducing structural failure loads on the airframe resulting in total loss of control and the aircraft.
    The above is my experience in the PC-12 exactly like the one lost in this accident. My pre-flight checks anytime icing was suspect ALWAYS involved cycling the de-ice system BEFORE take-off and immediately after starting engine to introduce warm DRY air into the de-ice control valves. Also it allows a test of the system for proper pressure built up and testing of the control valves.
    Currently there are NOT prescribed procedures for testing before flight into known or suspected icing. A procedural change will be required to adopt this test of the system before every flight into freezing conditions.

    • @jameshisself9324
      @jameshisself9324 Год назад +2

      It's looking more and more like spatial disorientation while in IMC, followed by airframe break up slightly prior to impact. There is local security audio that supports this.
      Single pilot night IMC is a very dangerous mission to take on and sadly this outcome might be more common as the pilot shortage continues.

    • @petebaranko5468
      @petebaranko5468 Год назад

      @@jameshisself9324 at first glance it’s the easiest to assume spacial disorientation. But the PC-12 has a very good autopilot and the extremely stable characteristics make this less likely over other aircraft.
      This airplane made two right turns, this is not typical of a spacial disorientation event where it’s typically a single death spiral.
      If the pilot attempted to reset the de-ice lock out (located left and behind the pilot seat), this could have blown the boots in the left wing prior to lock-out a second time, but a failed valve on the right wing would have resulted in a roll moment exceeding the control authority of the ailerons.
      FL200 is getting into thin air, reduced control authority combined with an iced up wing and one clean wing would certainly explain the two turns and the final descending right spiral culminating in a break up due to excess G’s from the aircraft rolling into a 90° turn in a descending and increasing dive.
      The De-Ice lockout was installed specifically by Pilatus to preclude an inflight reset because of the possibility of a loss of control.
      This was not an inexperienced pilot, and I feel it’s safe to assume he was familiar with the lockout reset as was I when flying this exact model of PC-12.

    • @FlyHighAndFar
      @FlyHighAndFar Год назад

      Thank you for your valuable comment. I hope the NTSB will look into that possibility.
      On a slightly different note I'm also wondering if a failed valve on the right wing and subsequent fast ice accumulation in moderate to severe icing conditions might go unnoticed at first ( Can the pilot easily check the right leading edge ? "Peep hole" only on the left side? ). The first right turn then due to the autopilot dropping out ....manual correction ... but a little later not possible anymore due to aileron authority vs growing ice accumulation on the right wing.....

    • @petebaranko5468
      @petebaranko5468 Год назад

      @@FlyHighAndFar The PC-12 monitors the actual pressure in each de-ice boot segment. If the system senses “low pressure” when the valve is commanded to cycle open, the system closes all valves and locks out the system. This prevents “asymmetric” boot activation.

    • @jameshisself9324
      @jameshisself9324 Год назад

      @@petebaranko5468 I hear you, but given the audio recording it's easily the most likely scenario. The mid flight break up was due to the over G and over speed conditions brought on by the SD. Are you disputing this? Do you have a more reasonable explanation? Nothing is decided and far too little is known at this point to rule anything out, I'm just operating in probabilities here.

  • @TheMonolake
    @TheMonolake Год назад +2

    Strange impact ...

  • @peterhenman2662
    @peterhenman2662 Год назад

    I wonder why there was particular urgency for this flight. What was needed medically that wasn't available in Reno?

  • @whgrunow
    @whgrunow Год назад +2

    “ If You can’t afford to wait,
    Then you can’t afford to fly “

  • @weirdshibainu
    @weirdshibainu Год назад +3

    The weather in northern Nevada has been rough all winter

    • @westsparks6844
      @westsparks6844 Год назад +1

      And it's still rough today. I80 is shut down again over the pass. Reno is forecast for another 3 - 6" today

  • @lembriggs1075
    @lembriggs1075 Год назад +1

    My guess is when they find the tail, the pitch trim will be found in the extreme N/D position.

  • @jimw1615
    @jimw1615 Год назад +18

    The remains show the aircraft wasn't severely nose-down when it impacted the ground. It would be educational to know the flight dynamics that allowed that to be the case without the horizontal stabilizer and elevators attached at the time of impact.

    • @kwittnebel
      @kwittnebel Год назад +4

      Yes there is either some crazy great piloting going on or things are not as they seem.

    • @dwaynemcallister7231
      @dwaynemcallister7231 Год назад +9

      There was a crash of a Malibu with PT-6 turbine conversion in my area, very similar in that these were both graveyard spiral dive's and over G over speed crashes, in the Malibu both wings were gone and the aircraft landed horizontally with less damage than this PC-6 but still no survivors sadly. Here it does appear it was near horizontal but it really came apart, hard to imagine the forces it was subjected to, incredible

    • @wadesaxton6079
      @wadesaxton6079 Год назад +8

      They tend to flutter down not dart in after a breakup.

    • @dvpro1
      @dvpro1 Год назад +6

      ​@@wadesaxton6079 my thoughts too. Right hand outer 1/3 of the wing is severed indicating that was the low wing upon impact. Left hand wing aileron is in full deflection up. Very sad for everyone involved as that's a very well made aircraft.

    • @othername1000
      @othername1000 Год назад +4

      If I remember right the other major pieces were only a quarter mile away. I'm wondering if he was pulling out of it and everything snapped off as he got level very close to the ground, and just kind of belly flopped it in.

  • @bretyoung1869
    @bretyoung1869 Год назад

    Very sad...

  • @lauraradigan4114
    @lauraradigan4114 Год назад +6

    Given the ADSB rate of decent, I am shocked so much of the plane remained. No fire? I expected a smoking hole in the ground. Something doesn’t add up. This is going to require some serious investigation to figure out. RIP to the crew.

    • @UncleKennysPlace
      @UncleKennysPlace Год назад +7

      There is more often _not_ a fire in a plane crash. The hot part is up front, Jet-A isn't that easy to light up.

    • @ricardokowalski1579
      @ricardokowalski1579 Год назад

      Agree. This one is one for the books.
      Condolences to the families.

    • @ositadB1
      @ositadB1 Год назад +1

      Photos of the aircraft remains appear to be similar to those of a flat spin.

    • @user-eu1id9ex3o
      @user-eu1id9ex3o 9 месяцев назад

      Dan kuiper to take a check ride 6 days no time in aircraft good luck

  • @guyrandom1
    @guyrandom1 Год назад

    RIP 🙏

  • @rickrickard2788
    @rickrickard2788 Год назад +16

    Looks like the aircraft went into a flat spin, after it broke apart, but that's just a guess.

    • @patmayer7222
      @patmayer7222 Год назад +1

      Split second belly flop....the crease at the side panel shows this angle,,,,,sad,,,,it lost it tail!..ice up maybe?...definate flat spin.,,,,rip.prayers to familys.land o' lakes,wi.

  • @bernardanderson3758
    @bernardanderson3758 Год назад +4

    How much pressure does anyone have to go through to saying no go situation ? Nevertheless not no one has to be punished or loose their jobs for being safe in Aviation Industry.

    • @Mcgoosh
      @Mcgoosh Год назад +5

      On these particular flights, if any crew member, including the nurse or medic, says no go, it's a no-go. No job, jeopardy.

    • @jameshisself9324
      @jameshisself9324 Год назад

      It's a lot of self imposed pressure. This is 'care flight', so the pilot does this to save people's lives. Not sure of the patient details for this one, but it may have been life threatening for them if he didn't fly. Either that or the pilot mentality is that it was, so they have more comfort with higher risk than they should have. Another version of get-there-itis.

  • @SuperTom1501
    @SuperTom1501 Год назад +1

    Reminds me of the road repair crews. 1 guy working and 8 watching. Our Tax dollars at work.

  • @beatrueegg2722
    @beatrueegg2722 Год назад +6

    If the information I found is correct, the hospital at the take-off site has around 500 beds and should be able to provide almost all the necessary treatment.
    Secondly, there is a video with parts of the radio traffic between the tower and the pilot before take-off where you can understand that the visibility and the ground are so bad that you can hardly see the runway. Above a certain cruising altitude, you would actually have to switch to autopilot in this weather. It flies more accurately than a pilot who can barely see anything. Unfortunately, nobody knows whether the pilot did that or whether the autopilot jumped out just before the last circle where the screw began, and without a flight recorder it will hardly be possible to determine that.
    With a 20-year-old aircraft, regular maintenance is certainly more demanding than with a new one.
    Only the NTSB can find out what the real reason for the crash was. I suspect a combination of weather, disorientation due to poor visibility and then the stress for the pilot at the end.

  • @gregnettles3677
    @gregnettles3677 Год назад +3

    Severe turbulence took the tail off?

    • @kam1583
      @kam1583 Год назад

      That's what I think

  • @FirstnameLastname-tp4zw
    @FirstnameLastname-tp4zw Год назад

    A lot if patience and testing....

  • @Saltlick11
    @Saltlick11 Год назад

    RIP

  • @frederickbunnell2343
    @frederickbunnell2343 Год назад

    Question is who was on the flight.

  • @RealRickCox
    @RealRickCox Год назад +8

    This was a very, very violent crash. I'm glad the occupants didn't have to suffer. Hope other pilots will learn from this and we can avoid future accidents. Get-There-Itus kills far too many pilots.

    • @francinecorry633
      @francinecorry633 Год назад +7

      From 19,000ft. there was plenty of time to suffer.

    • @RealRickCox
      @RealRickCox Год назад +6

      @@francinecorry633 I’m sure they were terrified when the airplane started coming apart. But that’s not the same as being on the ground with severe injuries in the freezing cold.

    • @Admiral_Jezza
      @Admiral_Jezza Год назад +3

      @@RealRickCox Judging how the aircraft is mostly one with the dirt, everyone on board would've been killed instantly.

  • @biggrobb1551
    @biggrobb1551 Год назад

    Not the way to go 😔

  • @vincenthalas7055
    @vincenthalas7055 Год назад

    A final destination special

  • @connorhale599
    @connorhale599 Год назад +5

    Single pilot operation in the mountains with bad weather and IFR conditions is the problem here.

    • @SoloPilot6
      @SoloPilot6 Год назад

      The plane actually never went near a mountain, departure was down a valley, then a turn to follow another valley.

    • @connorhale599
      @connorhale599 Год назад

      @@SoloPilot6 .... I can't tell if this is satire or not

    • @SoloPilot6
      @SoloPilot6 Год назад

      @@connorhale599 Then you need to learn something about the terrain in northern Nevada.

    • @denniskwahl
      @denniskwahl Год назад

      @@SoloPilot6 Correct, the peaks in this area are in the 7,000 ft range ,and only about 2500 ft above the valley floor.

  • @wootle
    @wootle Год назад +1

    Its time these kind of operations are required to have full FDR, CVR and airline-level training for the pilots. Oh and also require two-crew at all times. This flight should have been a no go from the start. But the reality is pilots are under massive pressure to go which is just terrible. NTSB is amongst the best in the world, im sure they will get to the bottom of what caused this tragedy.

    • @jameshisself9324
      @jameshisself9324 Год назад +1

      It's the dual pilot that is the key need in this scenario. This is turning out to most likely be spatial disorientation in IMC, and the best prevention for that is 2 pilots. Either that or some kind of auto-pilot override that takes the plane away from the pilot, which is very unlikely to even get developed or turned on if it ever did. Pilots want no part of that.

  • @anthonydelrosario1718
    @anthonydelrosario1718 Год назад +1

    Sounds like we need to ask our selves , are these flights nessary to save lives or just because they were chartered flights ?

    • @EchoKilo
      @EchoKilo Год назад +3

      That’s a question for the 2 physicians that decided this transfer was necessary. At this point we don’t know that it was or not.

  • @sophiejaysstuff4026
    @sophiejaysstuff4026 Год назад +1

    what about the train?

    • @wormrose01
      @wormrose01 Год назад +1

      The train from Reno to Salt Lake City departs at specific times every 2 days and takes about 12 hours and has no accommodations for medical transport. Not exactly useful in an emergency.

  • @jeffp862
    @jeffp862 Год назад

    This is so sad because it is very similar to a crash over 287 inNJ years ago in a TBM 700 belive last known flight into icing was 19k ft in that one too, break up in flight. These airplanes are NOT good for known flight into icing . They’ll get you out of quick encounters but you CAN NOT stay in those conditions. Please learn From this so we aren’t reading about this same
    Thing in a few more years. Ice equals reduced lift and heavier weights, add turbulence and a climb and this is bad news. In the 287 out of teeterboro they should have descended not followed ATC and climbed. (Unable) idk what the ATC recoding sounds like on this one but in my opinion ALL ATC should be required to be pilots not worry about bachelors degrees only a pilot knows what it’s like to be up there, what’s a bachelors degree do for a pilot who hangs in the balance up in the sky counting on ATC wisdom and getting a Kid out of college w zero flight experience . Nothing but seat time gives you that knowledge and NOT in a simulator .

  • @jonathanwbecker3073
    @jonathanwbecker3073 Год назад +1

    Accidents happen its part on life .Rest in Peace.

    • @wootle
      @wootle Год назад +2

      Its impossible to live with 100% safety but risk can be MANAGED. In this example the pilot should have said "We are not going" but in reality they are sadly under pressure to do so. In your every day life you manage risk without realizing it so that you can live longer. You dont run across a road with eyes closed, you look left and right and then cross. You just managed risk. So yes accidents happen but though risk management we can live a much safer life.

    • @jameshisself9324
      @jameshisself9324 Год назад +2

      'Accidents' do not happen. Every mishap has a chain of events leading to it, and if that chain is broken the mishap does not happen. Aviation does not even use the word 'accident' for this very reason.

  • @chloehennessey6813
    @chloehennessey6813 Год назад +1

    How many of these Guardian Flights inside a few months have to go down before they’re flight permissions are revoked?
    This is what, four accidents in as many months?
    Promech in Ketchikan was shut down for this many accidents. What makes these guys special?

  • @jamesunger8433
    @jamesunger8433 Год назад +13

    So sorry for this tragic preventable acccident. Single pilot IFR in IMC is very risky and should be conducted with TWO qualified and current pilots. Strange how a sub 12000 pound PC 12 plows into the ground at high speed and leaves a huge debris field yet the Shanksville 757 was swallowed up by mother earth! No wreckage! Makes you wonder!

    • @Pistolpete147
      @Pistolpete147 Год назад +4

      That’s because shanksville 757 was a big lie, like most of the other events that day

    • @724bigal
      @724bigal Год назад +6

      Who said no wreckage was found at shanksville?
      Aluminum hitting the ground at 600 mph isn’t gonna leave much of any shape you would recognize as an aircraft but maybe the engines that were 20’ under ground.

    • @jamesunger8433
      @jamesunger8433 Год назад +2

      @@Plutogalaxy There is no wondering...no doubt....250k lb aircraft do not disappear into the ground with very little to no debris. Case in point Swiss Air 111 which impacted the ocean at high speed and still there was huge debris left. UA 93 could not be swallowed up by mother earth. There would have been a huge debris field of aircraft parts, seats luggage engine components which are largely comprising mostly of advanced alloys and if the AC was in a vertical dive would still have left huge impressionable in the ground. But an eyewitnesses described an aircraft flying over at low altitude and high speed and much smaller than a Boeing airliner....smacks of inside job and Tomahawks missile in the livery of United Airlines. Anyways I'm off topic.... focus should be on the tragic loss which just occured. God bless!

    • @dvpro1
      @dvpro1 Год назад +3

      That Aircraft is not required for more than single pilot operations. You state it was preventable yet have no knowledge of how this occurred..... See where I'm going with this? Have some respect, some of their families may read this.... And you want to bring up 911... Smfh

    • @vidznstuff1
      @vidznstuff1 Год назад

      Shanksville's cockpit got strafed by F-16's. Look at the FDR data and you'll see it happening on the tape.

  • @SpAm-AcCoUnT
    @SpAm-AcCoUnT Год назад +9

    Not to disrespect the gravity of this incident and the import of the NTSB’s work, but…
    Missed opportunity to call it NTSB-roll.

  • @heep34987yt
    @heep34987yt Год назад +4

    I don’t know why the NTSB has to investigate… it seems that all the answers to this tragic event are right here on RUclips.

  • @musketman7804
    @musketman7804 Год назад +1

    Looks like it may have been flat spin

  • @djjamar
    @djjamar Год назад +7

    Single pilot complex single engine night IFR in IMC icing. No no no no no go

  • @avalon1rae
    @avalon1rae Год назад

    Not one sign of fire ,no tail ,God rest their souls .

  • @johnschneider4160
    @johnschneider4160 Год назад +15

    Call Dan Gryder! He has the answers. He'll travel to the crash site five years from now to authenticate his conclusions. 👍

  • @waldoinaz
    @waldoinaz Год назад +9

    After hours of combing through the wreckage, the NTSB concluded it was likely aviation related as a ship’s anchor and railroad tracks had not been located.

    • @devintariel3769
      @devintariel3769 Год назад +1

      What about the banana peel and turtle shells everywhere?

  • @yasseralchmli187
    @yasseralchmli187 Год назад +1

    The plane was overloaded. He should've kept to 15000ft Altitude.