Accepting Zelda's New Creative Future
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- Опубликовано: 21 июн 2024
- Will Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom live up and beyond the standard set with Tears of the Kingdom?! Zelda as a series has evolved into Creative Freedom for its game. While that's good, can we see improvements or have to embrace a trade-off that started all with BOTW and its prototype.
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I feel like they've stopped making puzzles, and are now making obstacles. I prefer the old way.
A puzzle *IS* an obstacle. We're just give other ways to solve it. The very first dungeon with the very first boss, we can: do what the NES manual tell us and go fight it right away with 3 heart containers. Go buy bombs and arrows for your bow and kill it that way. Or go whole hog and explore the whole world map and kick Aquamentus's behing with 5 heart containers, the White Sword, the Blue Ring, and Magic Shield to block the beams. On the first boss. Completing the dungeons out of order wasn't entirely out of the question either (though you needed the Ladder, Raft, and the Flute to access some).
But lets have dungeons again as opposed to 120+ shrines.
@@shirrenthewanderer414 a puzzle CAN be used as an obstacle, but they're different things.
- A room full of monsters that have to be cleared up for the door to open is an obstacle.
- a block that has to be put in the correct place for a trigger to activate a door is a puzzle, the obstacle in this case would be the door.
As an example, the first Harry Potter trilogy of games on pc is compared to Zelda for the similarities, but when you get down to it, you have obstacle courses focused on platforming, not really elaborated dungeons. Then you have the HP trilogy of games on consoles, where there are legit puzzles to solve, like mirror and light puzzles. They feel the same for people that are looking without giving them a proper try, but there's a big difference.
@@Rihcterwilker We always had room full of monsters that have to be cleared up for the door to open in every Zelda Games. Since BotW, we have more puzzle than we had in previous Zelda Game, the main difference is that we now have countless ways to solve those puzzle and that the game give us all the tools we need in the tutorial area (+ we can collect items through the game that can help us solve the puzzles in a different way)
So I don't know why you think they've stopped making puzzles
@@Elithralith would you consider putting a random table next to a cliff to get up on it a puzzle?
@@Rihcterwilker not really, but this game will surely have puzzles like every other games, we have echoes that have different powers and can replace old items of the serie. It seems we have dungeon in the game as well, so we'll have to deal with puzzles
I don't mind the new openness, but i wish the games had a more in depth story. A Link to the Past had a good story and was open ended, while also having solid dungeons. I just wish these new games had 5-8 great dungeons and less shrines.
YES I AGREE
i just wanna point out that zelda 1 also had restrictions so it was t fully open
I personally don't think the reuse of the world is an issue. For one, it can potentially have narrative implications. That being, its placement in the timeline. Most likely the Downfall Timeline. For two, it isn't actually a blatant copy of the world due to Death Mountain being in the completely wrong location as well as there being a Castle Town. From what we can see in the trailer, Death Mountain is North West from the Castle. But in ALTTP & ALBW it was always to the North East. For three, the locations we aware of, are definitely going to have a mix up. In the trailer, the Gerudo, Deku Merchants, & Deku Tree are present, unlike in ALTTP & ALBW. As well as there being what seems to look like a conflict between the Sea Zora and River Zora. Which could also serve narrative purposes. There could also potentially be Gorons as well, but we just don't know yet.
TLDR: All of this to say, I think the world being similar is the least of our worries. It's more about HOW we interact with the world than the world itself. What we should worry about though is how long that Echo list is going to be. Goddamn.
Creativity is sometimes broken down into two species: generative creativity in which things are created as a result of a process regardless of their value, and adaptive creativity in which things are created as adaptive responses to a system and situation.
Ultrahand overloads generative creativity, whereas the puzzles don't really stand up to the power of the tool: I found adaptive creativity underutilized.
Yes! This is what I was referring to, thanks for bringing that in!
Let’s do an Octopath Traveler storytelling. Play as Link, Zelda and other fan favorites and give each one their own unique story. Then at the end, give them an overarching story
That would literally be impossible with the Zelda Team's obsession with this current "open air" style of gameplay. They can't even make FOUR different cutscenes unique without having them repeat FOUR different times, let alone having different playable characters with branching storylines...
@@Key-Knight87 It doesn’t need to be open world. They could make it from a top down perspective. Not sure what you mean by four different cutscenes repeating.
@@user-sn1hi7my7x Every time you complete the dungeon in Totk you practically watch the same cutscene with little difference. Also it being top down could work but even then, Nintendo will try to make it as "open worldly" as possible thus will restrict the story aspect ironically. I think it's clear that Nintendo isn't going back with their obsession with open ended gameplay...
Let's be clear, it's not an evolution, it's a reinvention. While the new games are fine, they are completely different from their predecessors, and I'm sad to say they do not appeal to me.
Zelda II wasn't like Zelda I, does that make it bad?
Super Mario Bros. II wasn't like Super Mario Bros.I does that make it bad?
We would not have Bob-Ombs, Shy Guys, Volvagia, Iron Knuckles, and so many others without these games. And DEAR GOD i missed those Axe wielding gators.
@@shirrenthewanderer414 Bad or good, it's a matter of taste. Zelda 2 is rather odd... but my point is that both classic and modern are vastly different, and not everyone that liked one formula will like the other. Both have their merits, but I just wanted to make the point that while BotW may have been inspired by Zelda 1, it was still an almost complete reinvention.
The mario argument is also a bit less relevant, because Mario has multiple formulas and just keeps expanding its genre. There's only one sort of genre Zelda is making. EoW seems to follow in the BotW/TotK spirit.
I might check out EoW eventually, but that'll be based on reviews and whether or not the puzzles are good or just easily surmounted obstacles. Even making chests relevant would go a long way. But as it stands, I'm just a little sad that I'm losing interest in a series I loved so much because what I love has been removed.
@@Ophmar4 Well there IS the Final Fantasy series, so yeah.
But I DO want dungeons and ways to solve them... maybe you need certain echoes from that dungeon to do certain things...
@@shirrenthewanderer414 I hope the dungeons are good, and I do hope that the game appeals to me, but I'm rather skeptical. I think it's a good idea to wait a month or so after all the 10/10s to see if it seems like my type of game. I like the idea of playing as Zelda and using a different approach, but then there's the idea of everything being too accessible and maybe killing the potential challenge.
I'd lost track of the Final Fantasy series since a while now, so I'm not too sure where the series is at. I've heard a lot of conflicting info about the newest incarnation, but I just don't quite know what's up.
Idk, since this is the direction their gonna be going with for the foreseeable future it seems, they should start adding “adventure mode” & “creative mode” to please both Zelda fans & Minecraft fans 🙃
Not me. Call me a boomer
I hope you know there's nothing stopping you from enjoying the countless indie games that have been inspired by the classical Zelda formula which have released in alarming numbers over the last few years...boomer.
@@DanielZeal oh I have. And they're glorious. Shame Nintendo doesn't think so
@@Giggles_iJestI’m with you, a 27 yr old boomer myself lol. Look into rom hacks of Zelda. They been killing it lately
@@DanielZealcan you suggest some of your favorite indie old school zelda like games? Thank you
@@jtx96 if you haven't played yet, harry potter 1 and 2, for the pc version and for the ps2 (the versions are different, but they're pretty decent zelda clones)
Building and ultrahand is only one half of the coin in the creativity in TOTK.
People overlook fuse when it contributes just as much to puzzles, combat and exploration. I personally engaged with Fuse than I do with ultrahand because of how many different weapons you can make, buffs you can create for environmental protection or combat, puzzle solutions as an alternative to ultrahand.
I love the new creativity and how the game has grown. I also hope the story will hold up. Btw loved the video 💛💛
I freakin don't understand all the hate towards EoW. People really hate the graphics and gameplay and want the first official Zelda game starring Princess Zelda herself to be action adventure hyper realistic graphics like aloy from ps? People are freakin weird!
No one said that. You're a pathological liar. Only YOU think that.
I like her being different than link using magic we haven't seen before.
Rizky, stop lying. Smh.
Kinda wild how someone can think not liking the art style is the equivalent to wanting a horizon art style.
@@darcy7257gamers prefer ps
I think it's fine with Echoes, as long as story and dungeons are up to snuff. It helps it's like... A spin off(?), or at least doing something new with Zelda as the protag and they didn't just hand her a sword and called it a day. I still don't wanna touch breath or tears with a 20 ft pole though
Top down Zelda games are my favorites. I’m very excited for Echoes of Wisdom.
I think echos of wisdom is going to take place....or at least very easily could take place....in the child timeline after fournswoeds adventures. Maybe the ganon we see link fight is the dame ganon who was sealed in the four sword? Thwy very easily could spin that.
I think it is the same general kingdom we see in Link to the Past and Link Between Worlds, but it looks much MUCH more expansive, with a Gerudo town, Death Mountain and quite possibly more!
Zelda Minecraft isn't all bad but detail in other areas are suffering because of it.
As a fan of Link Between Worlds and even Link to the Past. I don't mind them using the overworld because unlike the previous two games that were based in this version of Hyrule this will be changed accordingly due to Zelda not being much of a fighter to begin with. I feel this game will try to heavily emphasize puzzles over combat, it looks like we will be quelling an arguement between the two zora races which should be fun considering it's their first game together. The deku scrubs are back after so long.
I'm sure Nintendo will try to make this hyrule more interesting, they put gameplay over story most of the time to begin with. (Even if it hurts the game entirely. Looking at you TotK).
My 1st playthrough of Totk is longer than any of my 1st play throughs for any other Zelda game.
So, even though Totk's core story is 'weaker' the sides stories make up for it, imo.
It's taking a bit to come to terms with all the newness in Zelda but I'm excited to see what the future holds!
"Returned to its roots of freedom"
Drinking the Anouma PR cool-aid I see.
Whats the music at the end of the video?
I just want -
From modern Zelda:
- Open ended free roam
- Ability to approach dungeons in any order
From classic Zelda:
- Items
- Unbreakable weapons
- Engaging narrative
- Fleshed-out NPCs
- Rewarding side quests
- Restrictions on direction to keep the narrative stable
- An adventurous incarnation of Princess Zelda; who can fend for herself with and without Link; her magic at full force; AND DROP THE FAKE ACCENT!
- Hidden skills
- No blood moon
- No random spawning enemies
- NO SHRINE TRAILS!!!
From the ground-up:
- No Ganon(dorf)
- Take to the land, sea, and sky; horse, boat, bird, however your method of travel is up to the player
I wouldn't mind seeing another villain soon with vaati having done well and Yuga and of course the sword of the evil demise oooo
I wish I could say that was the worst criticism I’ve ever heard of totk in the middle of the video, but in fact it’s in the top half. This is of course because it’s the lowest bar ever created by humanity.
I bet you half of these people just are twilight princess/majoras mask fans
I don’t like this trend of reusing maps but I love the open air creative gameplay and I like the direction of the series
Echoes of wisdom seems to reuse a map but there seems to be many new locations as well that wasn’t in alttp…hopefully it feels more fresh than recycled that was my main issue with totk
That's why I reconcile TOTK as a part 2 of sorts to BOTW. It's not a sequel in the traditional sense, but just the second half of BOTW. That both games together are one entire game if you will. With that in mind, the retreading of areas isn't as offensive to me.
It's possible this is the same link and Zelda from link to the past so I'm curious to if the world is any different for one links house is gone now
@@whisperedflame6952That's an interesting way of looking at BOTW & TOTK that I haven't heard. Thinking of the games as not two separate existences, but as two halfs of a complete picture.
Let's go back to the old way. I didn't become a zelda fan for open wolrd sandbox problemsolving.
I want puzzles with neatly designed specific solutions. And it is exactly as they say: "Necessity is the mother of invention"
More freedom isn't gonna make us be creative when solving puzzles. It is when we are limited, that we have to come up with a creative solution (Even if the solution is set by the developers)
if anything, the EOW world is going to be identical to link's awakening, not link to the past.
What?
It's a one-for-one identical translation of the Hyrule from AlttP. You can pick out many locations in all the exact spots they were in the original game when Zelda walks to the cliff and the camera pans to show the world.
@@tristenj1992 well, remember thats how link's awakening was built initially. but no its the same map as the recently released switch port. check for yourself
We are back in Hyrule they remade the link to the past map
@@lightdarksoul2097 awesome!
@@AlexWyler yeah this may even be those same link and Zelda before the oracle games and awakening
We'll have to see how Echoes of Wisdom goes but I'm coming to the gradual conclusion that new Zelda games might just not be for me anymore. There's literally no hope of the voices of old fans being heard because the new fans greatly outnumber them. And new fans don't want to hear what the old fans have to say so the natural thing for a traditional Zelda fan like me to do is to stop caring and pay more attention to a series like Metroid that stays closer to the franchise's roots. BotW/TotK fans can praise the new direction of Zelda for its complete openness all they want but I'm so over it. They can say the new games have amazing design for allowing you to skip over large chunks of content with a hoverbike but personally I think that's extremely lame.
I think they reused the base map from Lttp and ALBT but expand from that
I've been a Zelda fan since '98 and I absolutely love the new mechanics. However I do wish the level design was more curated, quality over quantity kind of thing. Hopefully Echoes of Wisdom is a step in that direction.
Glad you aren’t one of those “fans” who just want the exact same shit every game
Yeah honestly by the time we got to Skyward Sword I was kinda underwhelmed with the whole game design, even though the dungeons were great in that game.
Hope EOW has a better story than TOTK 😭
Totk story was goated lmao, better than Botw💀
@@-God_Usopp That's not really a high bar to pass but TotK's story is still weaker than previous entries.
@@firionkaiser8291 Fs weaker than some, but still great, and at least a step up from botw’s.
@@-God_Usopp don’t get me wrong the ending still makes me cry but the fact that the story can’t be consistent with itself, the previous game it’s a sequel to, and the rest of the franchise is infuriating. There’s a lot of plot holes they didn’t think out
@@Flynnisthename oh fs
I have been a fan of this series for my entire life. I grew up playing Zelda one on the NES. I love the new format and to me it represents what the series always wanted to be. Moving forward what I want is more gauntlet labyrinths. That is to say mazes that are full of enemies. The puzzle box dungeon never really did it for me. Also tell the story in order please.
I love how we can't just play a traditional zelda game where zelda is the protagonist. No, it has to be Minecraft creative mode where zelda can't even fight enemies 🤨
It's funny how Aonuma was hated for the linearity in Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword, and now gets hate for the openness of the newer games. It's like these rabid people just don't want him period. It's really pathetic
This series is dead to me. I liked it for the story and epic set pieces, not to play Minecraft
dramatic much
@@grass9768Not really. The series is exchanging one fan base for another, bigger one. That's just a fact .
Leave then
@@grass9768 The series is straying from what made me love it in the 1st place, so much so that it's almost unrecognisable. Why would I give them my money for something I never wanted that, even worse, completely replaces what I want and love?
@@syedshah9029 this fanbase is full of nice people :)
Ahhh one day we’ll get another great Zelda game, but apparently not in my lifetime 😂 more “different so creative!” slop
Sheesh. A bit overdramatic, yes?
If I was being over dramatic I prolly would’ve been like “THIS GAME IS GONNA BE FUCKING TRASH AND IS KILLING ZELDA!! 😡” but nah I’m being realistic saying that lazy wastes of time like “magical goat glue sandbox - featuring holding up signs with trash” or “another filler top down loz… as Zelda? 😱” are parading as creative when it’s just plain dull. And if those games keep selling, I’ll prolly keep getting shite like that instead of a decent Zelda game 😂