Every Ableton tutorial is WRONG about this
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- she believed (btw the y-axis at 1:27 is "volume percentage/amplitude", not dB, which is why it isnt logarithmic)
Jukeblocks my beloved: jukeblocks.io/
Neutral Dry/Wet Rack: performodule.c...
Patreon: / dylantallchief
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Disclaimer: The content in this video has been used for educational purposes in accordance with section 107 of US Copyright Law.
You can use my instrumentals/remakes for parodies/covers/etc (credit is appreciated), but remember, you should always have permission from the song's publisher and/or rightful owners!
miss your vids, always the best topics and presentation, straightforwardness. hope u are doing well and working on something you love!
He's back!
@@superlynx98 lets go!!
Hey! Thanks so much for linking to my Neutral Dry/Wet Rack, and going into such technical detail!
You are mega fantastic!
YOU are fantastic! Thank you!
YOU are breathtaking!
damn I miss this guy. if only i could show him how much i've progressed in production :')
Fr I miss him too😢
same
What happened to him?
@@skarryprankhunterhe died (idk I’m most likely wrong)
@@WublerDublerCubler wait, WHAT???? Where did you get this information?
Hi Dylan, just wanted you to know your content was and is some of my favorite music content on RUclips. I miss your videos but hope you are doing well nonetheless :)
For those wondering why he stopped posting, NO, he's NOT actually dead, he said on his Patreon that he's been working on Jukeblocks full time, and that's why he stopped making videos for a while.
Good to hear, I was just starting to get concerned while reading the comments under this video!
@@WolfmanDude yep... although we still don't know when of if he will post again...
hope you are live man ;( miss you
Still waiting for you, Gary come home
hope you find the milk soon dad
We miss you 😢
It’s been over a year of vacation Dylan! Come back to YT hommie we miss your videos! 😢
I've known about this phenomenon for a long time but I always assumed its because the net amplitude of two signals is greater than their sum, not because there is literally an inconsistency in the mapping of the knob and the amplitude
The crossfade curve for two fully correlated and fully uncorrelated signals is different, and I would also assume they picked the wrong one, as dry wet signals should be generally highly corellated. The difference should I believe come out to 3db. Whether this line of reasoning applies to this case, or whether they actually mismapped the knobs, I can't judge.
@@SianaGearz I think it probably does because I would expect it to be more straightforward for the programmer to map it right. The curve modified for the explanation at 1:38 somewhat confused me I suppose
I wonder if Dylan will ever come back. I've been checking in every couple weeks just to see if he has haha. Damn. The man literally revolutionised my perspective on music and made me motivated when he was around. Sad to see him not upload in 9 months :(
I hope you're doing well Dylan :)
what the hell happened to him?
Where can I find out?
Twitter has also stopped, right?
I saw you on the Netflix docu-series “Heist”.
Dylan you are an absolute Unit for Jukeblocks. Thanks for sharing the blog!
if you're curious, you can hear the gain error of the neutral rack by playing a sine right below digital clipping level (and see that the volume goes up and down twice), but it still has a great precision for any usage case even for a perfectionist like me
yo. put a compressor on the end of the chain and expand the view to show sidechain settings, put the ratio to 0 (were not actually compressing, and you can use any ableton plugin which accepts a sidechain input; i just use the compressor) set the sidechain to "rack title here pre fx" click the little headphone button (its intended purpose is previewing your sidechain source, but in this circumstance it will be used as the dry signal) and use the mix knob thats adjacent to the sidechain gain knob. bada bing bada boom
this is actually brilliant lol. really clever solution.
i can’t test it right now, so i’m wondering, will rendering out the audio actually render it as it sounds with the preview button ticked?
I tried that just yesterday but it still has +3dB at 50% (when testing with an empty rack/no effects)😩
Still very cool and ingenious method tho. Maybe there's a solution to that too.
@@DylanTallchief hmm. what about a utility and then a compressor inside the rack, and mapping the utility's gain, the compressor sidechain's mix and gain to one macro. you might be able to make a neutral dry/wet with that setup. i just love the compressor method so much cause you dont get the visual clutter of two parallel chains lol
i love these technical daw videos, they are simply very interesting, im a fl user and this is still a great video, ur channels so unique man! keep it up
No way it has almost been a year
it's so dope that people take the time to dissect this technical stuff so that others can focus on actually being creative
and then he disapeared
Interestingly, I’ve never seen it done with the chain mix. Usually I make a 100% wet verb chain and turn it way down until I find a proper mix instead. However, this could be useful when stacking filters on a bass since they don’t have a dry/wet knob.
Love ur vids dude hope we see some more in the future but you do you. Much love homie
People who did hear things.... 😳
You can actually get around this by using the mratio plugin (free), grouping it into a rack, setting its crossfade mode to linear and having the sidechain input be whatever the signal was before the rack. Then just put any effect(s) you want to dry wet before the mratio in the same rack. Though i do agree the difference in volume isn't that huge of a deal with just doing it through the ableton chain crossfade method
Ah that's dope actually! I was trying to stay with native plugins to avoid people needing to download extra stuff for their projects, but the fact that it's free makes it enticing. Thanks for letting me know!
m+ratio+FL is better
@@Asdayasman lame
You have been on a spree with the new features for the past three weeks and I appreciate you for your efforts in implementing my suggestions. Stayin' on da grind'! 💪
bro where did you go (bars) we need you back in our life even a community post that says whats going on would be good (bars) but no pressure
yknow dylan is cooking something GARGANTUAN when hes been gone for this long
Just wow! Not many people go in such details. I, however, prefer to never use dry/wet knob and always mix the wet signal to the original through the rack. But I can see how useful the knob is for those who perform live and for those who just like to use dry/wet knob
WE MISSED YOU DYLAN
1:10 2 CHAAAINZ
YOOOOOOOOOOO UR ALIVE?!?! thanks for the knowledge btw
RIP Mr.Wolfy
One feature I would love to have in Live is the ability to edit mapping curves, not just min and max values. They could add different fading curves similar to the ones in the crossfader, but they would not account for complex rack setups. Having a mapping curve tool would make fixing stuff like this and adding much more functionality to devices really easy. There are M4L tools like SMART that allow you to do it, but I'd love it if it was native.
The fact ableton still doesn't have wet dry on all plugins or even an inbuilt wet dry rack to use is absolutely mind-blowing. Makes you wonder what the devs are doing with their time
Add to that no VCA tracks and automation can be annoying to work with
You're kinda cray cray since you did all this research. And I think there must be people locked in your basement that you test it on. But goddamn, I like that you dig in this type of stuff! Keep up the good work!
decibels is a scaling system so a 6db increase (or decrease) is equivalent to doubling (or halving) of the signal. we use decibels because that's more similar to the way we hear. this isn't an ableton issue. it's just how decibels work. if you have 2 tracks playing the exact same thing the volume will be 6db louder. Decibels are a logarithmic scale so you could try an set a logarithmic curve for the dry/wet mix and it might fix it, but the volume sliders are already dBs so they "should" be scaled like that already (that would then make it an ableton problem. lol)
dylan has something cookin i can feel it
the amount of work you put into this bro, respect!
Interesting how I literally came across the mix knob problem recently and immediately noticed the same issue. My work around was exactly what was explained here... neat.
You've GOT to do a how to sound like Pedestrian Tactics. They have SUCH a unique sound!
it is not necessary to bet on 127 units. You can do exactly 100 units to make it even. It is also possible at point 1 to completely turn off the wet signal, and at point 100 turn off all dry
lmao I thought for sure the first beep was a bit louder. seeking help immediately
bro at least post something in the community tab
Redux was a weird example plug-in to show for “no mix knob” cos it has one now lol
each effect WHAT!?!?! 0:11
Dylan Tallchief? More like Dylan Tall-leave haha am i right guys i'm not crying
Mannnn i hope u come back
He's dead
(Confirmed information)
source??
I can confirm
@@DylanTallchiefwait, WHAT? is this a troll or something?
@@skarryprankhunterreal
@@DylanTallchief how's jukeblocks going?
He's Back!
it's kind of stupid that Ableton still haven't got simple solution for this like Bitwig does (which was founded my ex-Ableton developers) with it's Mix knob on Chain or Layer device.
Just gonna say I miss you, hope you're doing well!
This is not a problem, at all.
It’s actually what you want with a mix control.
It’s only 3db louder if you fade between two identical signals. In reality, when you combine two different audio signals, you’re going to get phase differences, which will result in a signal quieter than if you simply doubled either of the signals.
The variance in level depends hugely on the type of processing being mixed in, so it’s impossible to know how to compensate with a mix knob, but I’m sure that 3db was a very conscious decision by Ableton.
Seems like a reasonable one to me.
Dylan, where did you go?, we miss your vids
Still active, I just work on my website almost full time
@@DylanTallchief which website
I’ve been aware of this problem for about 6 months now and the best solution I had regarding this involved third-party plugins. Free plugins, but third-party nonetheless.
I used two Kilohearts “Gain” plugins, making sure to set their mode to linear/percentage-based. Setting everything else up is the same as making the typical dry-wet knob in Ableton.
Also, a bit of a side note, but you can type in decimal values far past the one’s place. I tried making my own poor-man’s comb filter with the Ableton delay (so that I could remove the even-harmonics of a sound) and ultimately found that I could type to something like the ten-millionths place (7 decimal values down) on a macro knob/Ableton effect without it actually rounding (only visually). I guarantee that you can type something even smaller in, but I never really went much past 7 decimal values ‘cause I didn’t need to.
tried this, works great!
Magnificent, thank you for sharing!
I don't use ableton but that was entertaining
thanks for making another awesome video!
this comment section is great, there’s a lot of really cool discussion happening in here. thanks for making this video dylan!
Cant believe you were taken from us so soon. May you R.I.P =[
Seriously?
This isn't a bug, it's called a constant power fade and is used all the time in audio. In most cases it sounds like a smooth transition in perceived loudness but in this example it has a 3dB boost in the middle because the signals are the exact same and don't undergo the destructive interference that would usually balance out the boost. That said it wouldn't be the worst idea for Ableton to add a constant gain fade option for specific use cases.
Sampler has constant power fades built in as a context menu option, so why don't racks? It's so weird.
Yo bro, make vids about Open Source Daws
dunno if you still do those, but would love a "How to Caravan Palace"-Video. They had quite a few bangers in the past like "Lone Digger". also i think they did some good-good on like electro-swing/neo-swing stuff or smth idk
ive found that most of the time, whenever using the chain method, i dont even do the fader knob thing. i usually just mess with the levels on each volume slider till i get it sounding good. why try to make a knob to copy a dry wet knob just for the sake of doing so, when an easier solution is available by just changing the volumes manually?
I’ve taken to this too. Helps fight volume bias also.
Real solution: use Bitwig Studio. All fx rack type devices have a mix knobs that works as expected 😉
@infoslinger that is definitely not true, i tried the free cakewalk and it aucks for me. When did you last check out Bitwig?
@infoslinger I've been an Ableton fanboy for 5 years but bitwig is the real deal. If I wasn't invested in Ableton already or if I was just starting out I would probably just use that tbh
Bitwig looks pretty janky to me, I'll stick with using mix knobs in FL Studio
Ahhhhhahahaha the John Oliver hoodwink at 4:40
bruh I just found this gem of a channel just to find out it's a dead one feels bonkers man
you good bro? miss your vids
omg i knew i was crazy
Why are you doing it this way? You can simply mix the wet signal with the volume knob, which is what I taught we all been doing
I'd just use an return track
You got me good at 4:29. I will seek help.
Yeah, audio waves can not be simply added together in dB space. What you hear is pressure (measured in Pascal or bar), but because this pressure ranges over multiple magnitudes (think like 0.0001 to 1000 Pa(scal)), you generally use dB (take the logarithm, with a reference pressure and some other stuff to make it all nice). When you want to add audio waves correctly, you have to transform into the pressure domain, add there and transform back to dB.
5:31 ableton shows the values on the screen more rounded than they actually are. you can type in different values that are rounded to N digits identically, but the results will be still different. it works like that with tempo, and i've probably seen the same behaviour with macros mapping bounds
I noticed this with Utility and other knobs, but it seems mapping is the only one that actually rounds the value? At least that was the only conclusion I could come up with.
@@DylanTallchief just checked macro mapping of Auto Filter frequency, typing in xxxx.00 and xxxx.04 values in Hz as macro mapping bounds gives different results (i saw it by combining two results and seeing interference on the spectrogram). maybe not a versatile example though
The precision goes to 5 decimal places, though you do not see those values displayed.
tbh save yourself the trouble of fiddling with chain selectors to create a dry/wet knob entirely, really don't need it! With both chains at 0db you have a 50% dry/wet mix and if you want more wet turn down the dry or vice versa. Simple + fast, regardless of how you achieve that balance you may need to adjust the track volume anyway
You should do a “How to Phonk”
I miss your vids man. hope youre doing aight
Missed opportunity to have a picture of 2 Chainz pop up every time you say "two chains"
The legend returns :D
Where did he go
..
Where'd u go bro miss your video so much :(
working on jukeblocks probably
Yo bro i saw your minecraft sweden remake video, i hope you will do a minecraft subwoofer lubally remake video i just want to see that really so much. I try to find out how to make remake it.
Shout out to 2Chainz!!
I miss you D:
oh god, that 0.01 db is always gonna be in the back of my mind now, haha. wonder if itd be possible for someone to come up with a max device with some sort of flattened out inverse volume curve that just dips it down by 3db in the middle.
True, maybe they could use mapul8or
3.0103
Send this to the Ableton team and tell them to get to work and fix it.
dylan awakens
Guess it has something to do with linear and logarithmic scales.
DYLAN, I would love to see a "How to Tycho" video. Scott Hansen is an incredible producer. His style is very distinct and I think you could do a great take on it!
you could automate a utility -3 DB on the rack to compensate or something
Just came here to say where dylan at
How about using a return track instead?
5:25 (Avagadro coughs from his grave)
haha wet knob
Giant wet mix knob
can you make a remake of how mario kart n64 title screen song was made on fl studios
hey Dylan how are you
Bruh I been watching you forever and I'm watching a Netflix documentary and I'm like fuck that dude look familiar and sure enough lmao
lmao which documentary? Gotta see how our boy is doing
@@TheGreatAnglerHeist on Netflix
Click bait is click bait.
Dude wtf, i was watching a netflix documentary about a bank heist and then i see your face show up. Wtf small world been watching your content for a while.
The reason why so many people changed to Ableton Live were
1) the live mode
2) the sample stretching
... But it's far from perfect.
Nah there’s little things like this in every daw, it’s software, software leads itself to this type stuff
pls how to Tchami am begging