GoT talk: How good of a swordsman was Ser Arthur Dayne really (realistically)?
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- Опубликовано: 17 июн 2016
- Lots of people have asked me how realistic the fight scene at the Tower of Joy in season 6, episode 3 of Game of Thrones is. So finally here is my opinion on the techniques and tactics, based on what I know of historical European swordsmanship. Particular focus on the elephant in the room, Arthur's dual wielding of two identical swords.
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Ned Stark lives in the cold northern half of a continent.
Ned Stark is too honorable/polite for his own good.
Ned Stark probably is Canadian.
MovieMowDown or Scandic?
There was a joke told by Tyrion that confirms the nationalities of the characters. The North is Scotland, south England and the Martells are Irish
At least he Scottish part was confirmed during this joke and I'm just assuming the other two.
The joke told was similar to a Scotsman, Irishman and Englishman walks into a bar. Then he did a Stark impersonation which used Scots which is obviously unique to Scottish people.
"spit it out ye wee shit"
Ned Stark is honorable. Honorable people don't lie. You wouldn't do well in Canada if you can't lie.
MovieMowDown he's english
Hunter Zolomon He's not :)
Q: How realistic is Game of Thrones?
A: Not very
I completely disagree with that, i the other day i saw a dragon. Although it might've just been a big pigeon, never mind that i did see a zombie army. No never mind that was my class of students.
However, I did see a lot of poverty and political unrest!
That's what I love about GoT. It has its fantasy elements, but it isn't detached from realism in EVERY way. I'm looking at you, Lord of the Rings.
LotR works as a story, a classic tale binding mythology to plot in order to create something never seen before. ASoIaF works as a world that could exist, and has real world problems that its characters go throygh.
GoT doesn't really work as anything except a badass machine. Arthur Dayne is soooo badass bro he TWIRLS TWO SWORDS ITS SO BADASS!
It is realistic when talking about politics and society. Battles, not so much, but it is still a breath of fresh air after seeing so many completely unrealistic fantasy and drama. Not comparing with LotR, though, as much as people love to call Martin the new Tolkien, they had different aims, LotR was going for high fantasy while aSoIaF is more close to real history mixed with fantasy elements.
Just look at the armor piercing in this scene....
Arthur Dayne wasn't even a dual wielder in the books... he used a sword called Dawn.
the bleeding star...
Was Jaime Lannister his squire back in the days or am I confusing with another guy?
Are you fucking serious? He didnt dual wield in the books? That's stupid, why would they even add that to the TV show?
+svennie pennie it was their mediocre way of conveying to the unaware audience that Arthur Dayne is a badass swordsman. That makes it even more cringey when you think about it. I still enjoyed it though
World Citizen: No, Jaime squired under Lord Sumner Crakehall, alongside Merritt Frey (the father of Roose Bolton's wife, Fat Walda, and mothered by Lord Walder's Crakehall wife.)
Clearly in Westeros combat is turn based, like Final Fantasy.
I hate turn base games like lord of the rings that i once played on my ps2
That would explain how Sam counters White Walkers.
Cure > Zombie
@@o_o5813 What Lord Of The Rings game on ps2 is turn based?
@@Plastofam Nice!
@@Plastofam There was a grid based tactic-ish one I can't remember the name of. I remember liking it a lot.
When i was watching the episode and i saw arthur dayne dual wielding, i died inside. Such a legendary character ridiculized by a guy thinking that the sword of dawn should dual wield because yeah, hat makes you look sooo cool. QQ
Well dual wielding did happen historically and if he was expecting to fight multiple opponents but didnt want to carry around a shield it might be a good choice for him in that situation, he is supposed to be a master swordsman so it wouldn't be unlikely that ue would be skilled with multiple combat styles. It also makes sense in terms of making a good show as dual wielding does look cool and shows off his skill with the swords.
As a fan of the book, I also died inside. Where is dawn, you know, the white meteor sword. While the fight looked cool at times, it also looked really fake
It would have been cool to see what he could do with dawn but it is a greatsword so maybe he just didn't want to lug it around, that's the only excuse I could think of.
+Adrastus Darke it didnt look cool to me. if they wanted to have a flashy dualwielding man in the fight, they could have used barristan instead. But the guy with the meteoric steel sword? why would he ever consider that another sword could be of any use to him, when he already got the best one ever created, and, on top of that, he is a god fighting with it?
I know that dualwielding "happened", skal talks about it in the vid too, but it was something so impractical that it was almost never used.
tl;dr:
yes, dualwielding happened. no, arthur dayne is not the kind of guy that dual wields.
+FutBoy281 the only hint you got of Dawn is in the first part before the fight, when arthur sticks the sword in the ground, you see the pommel with a sun in it. Thats all we book fans got: a sword with a meteoric pommel. At least he can end hid opponentd rightly i guess
Like Himura Kenshin said, fighting multiple opponents is all about running away. The fastest one catches you first, and you can defeat him one on one, then you run and fight the next fastest, etc.
Being a great swordsman vs multiple opponents is all about making sure they can only fight you one at a time. Otherwise you're pretty much dead. Also, Cardio!
True this. There's a cool video about 3 Olympic fencers vs. 50 normal ones. All they do is run away to be able to have 1 or 2 opponents at a time. Looking cool while being surrounded would only work until you're being stabbed from 3 different directions lol
er for the olympic one that was actually a really bad example since they werent running really they were kinda backing away
also the normal ones only had a small area on the olympic guys' bodies. With live weapons and intent to injure they would be skewered. Instantly.
the kenshin one is actually a much better example since he moved at such high speed that people had to catch up with him, other people are naturally faster than others and thos get take out quickly then he moves on
What is really fun is that this actually translates well into the Dark Souls games when playing against other players. When you are fighting multiple opponents at the same time it is all about falling back and trying to separate them.
thank god we have the words of legendary historical swordsman himura kenshin to guide us in these dark times
youre basing up realism with manga...
Hate to be that guy, but I would have preferred to see the fight from the books, Ned with Ice, a greatsword, vs. Arthur with Dawn, a greatsword. I'd love to see a good fight with a huge greatsword.
You mean ned and 6 guys vs arthur dayne and 2 more kingsguard. It was never just ned vs arthur otherwise ned would have died long before got happened. Altho i agree that Dawn is cooler than dual wield
Definitely. It was a pointless change that made for a less interesting fight in my opinion.
Hard to make him look like the greatest swordsman who ever lived with a greatsword
Gloomy Noodle
Why?
Tony Bjornson dunno I guess it just wouldn't look as aesthetic
I was a fucking beast
Arthur Dayne ...at twirling swords.
...And killing people
Arthur Dayne and twirling swords
But were you a fookin legend in gin alley
@@arthurdayne9282 show off
So basically Howland Reed was the only one in the fight with an ounce of sense.
And he was the first one to go down too.
+RGInquisitor he only got a little injure
+arttu huovinen *injury
logh
Ser arthurs daynes budy.
Playing Mount & Blade Warband on highest difficulty gives a general idea of how likely you are to fare against 3-4 opponents alone. They just bum rush you and beat you into submission with their pointy sticks and swords. Kinda puzzles you how somewhat clunky and crude combat system of M&B is still leagues better and more realistic than movies. Even when it would make sense to make the fight more realistic and gruesome. Would've make a character that much more badass.
Usually in M&B you can kill entire armies worth of guys by just walking backwards tho. Although some mods and higher difficulty fortunately fix that
Psssh, take a heavy great bardiche, get them all to one side and then wack them to death while retreating!
Decent reach and speed, great damage, bonus against shields, and you can only cut with it, so you don't accidentally find yourself thrusting, like with a long axe or a poleaxe.
+Gferd176 ...in singleplayer
backtrack enough and you get out of the surround. backtracking always works well
"bum rush you and beat you into submission with their pointy sticks" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
They didn't show the main reason why Arthur Dayne was considered such a skilled swordsman in the books - unscrewing his pommel.
chimpdongs you sir, have just made my day with that comment 😂
End them rightly
Kinda late... But whats the joke about unscrewing the pommel?
@@danmaynez9664 ruclips.net/video/jETLCm7k3sU/видео.html
@@gregcale5388 Thanks for the link! That was cool *and* funny. Always nice for someone to explain the joke 👍
Honor...pfffftttt....
Lemme just say what my sensei told our class..."If you don't see a referee, your not in a fair fight"
Did you study at the Cobra Kai dojo?
@@AlphaQHard Hahaha holy shit
@@AlphaQHard Lyons TaeKwonDo
Or what my teacher said (paraphrased): If you lose, you aren't cheating hard enough.
@@robertlewis6915 words to live by 🤣🤣🤣
great use of memes fam
its god awful
Yeah, it's hilarious, and works great with the sarcastic tone of the video.
The video isn't sarcastic?
Well, because he was using still images, to avoid copyright, he had to do something "transformative" to them. Some youtubers put fezes into the frame. Skall decided to use memes. :)
yeah xD
4:00
This is what gets me. And this is also what people who use the argument "lol this is a show with dragons and you care about realism ?" don't understand. There is a difference between realism and credibility. Dudes waiting around, not striking their opponent when they have a very obvious possibility to do so are what is wrong in this kind of fights.
I agree with you, yet I don't really mind if a TV show isn't so realistic when it comes to sword fighting (on a martial art point of view). It's obviously easier to write a realistic sword fight than it is to film one. But there is also a difference between characters on screen who actually look like they're trying to kill each other and characters who just execute a choreography with obvious flaws.
The phrase I like to use is "There's a difference between REALISM and BELIEVABILITY." A scene or concept doesn't necessarily need to conform to REALITY, but it's nice if it's at least BELIEVABLE within the confines of the universe in which it takes place.
Holy Shit!
KhanSeb!
the show lost its credibility for me, not in the fighting, but in the fact that Sam is still fat after all that tracking trough snow
***** Not the best thing to wake up to.
Do yourself a favor and please calm down.
Doubt your opinion or anyone else for that matter, will be taken seriously over the internet.
Can't hope to change someone's attitude online.
Note: In the books there were three kingsguards at the tower of joy
yeah...where did Oswhell Whent go?
@@foxtrothermite6499he was just behind the corner taking a shit!
@@foxtrothermite6499wrong guy
The fact that you used memes for this just made it all much better XD
An old Meme but it checks out .
Alejandro Vega ecks dee
yeah RIGHT AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
They're called ragefaces.
Here look at this rage comic: imgur.com/gallery/qF4QS
He is the Memelord after all.
I always wondered why people would politely wait while attacking a single opponent. So many movies do that, but if it were realistic a lot fewer "good guys" would win and the fights would be over much faster.
Yeah it's a mixture of safety and choreography, you don't want people hurting each other which can happen if everything is happening at once, it's hard to choreograph all of that and it looks too busy on the screen. One master swordsman wouldn't stand much of a chance against four novices in real life but this kind of thing while not realistic allows heroes and other skilled characters to show off by cutting down swathes of enemies.
Arthur Dayne should've had just as many men as Ned Stark
Have any of you meet a Master in the martial arts? Well.....there is a lot of pretenders out there now that I think about it.
+Thunder Bird I have met master swordsman before yes, they are ridiculously skilled and could wipe the floor with me one on one but the advantage of numbers is too great against any single fighter.
I got training from a Grandmaster in the martial arts. The guy trained at least four hours a day, and in his prime did 8-10 hours. When I met him he was 60 years old and still buff. Matter of fact he is still buff. One interesting story of his was when he fought four other black belts with knives, and defeated them with his own knife. He was arrested and sat in jail covered in blood. He used to say "If you're a brown belt in karate and you can't defeat 15-20 men in a fight? Then you suck and should find something else to do." Just my experience.
Heeey skallagrim, could you do the same with syrio forel fighting?
That would be awesome!
Oh yes, I would love to hear Skall talk about Syrio and Arya's waterdancing.
the only problem is, you don't really see much of it
+Locahaskatexu i don t mean only his fighting with meryn and his men, but his fight style in general maybe!
aye, but that's the thing, I don't think you see enough of Forell's fighting to accurately critique it in terms of realism. The Tower of Joy scene is an extended fight, so you can really get a sense of how a character fights, but from those couple of disjointed disarms? not really, at least not in my opinion
Part of Arthur Dayne's skill, in the books, is his shiny magic sword. Dawn severely damages swords and armor due to it's magic. In fact, in one battle in the books, Dayne pauses to allow his opponent to fetch a new sword because Dawn cut the previous one to pieces
I wouldn't say its magic so much (been a while since I read the books) but wasn't it from a "fallen star" meteorite?
@@ryanhampson673 it's magic. But yes, it's made of the heart of a fallen star.
@@jeremiasvonsiebner5540na
He didn't cut it to pieces he just kept notching the other guys sword until it was basically scrap metal club
"I didn't know Ned Stark was Canadian." ~Skallagrim
Think about it, Winterfell is basically Canada. Snow or colder weather 3 months of the year, Larger Wolves than is customary, Roving bands of homeless people we call "Free folk". I even hear we may be getting dragons soon!
I am Canadian and I approve this message.
Westeros is based on the UK with the wall being Hadrian’s wall. That would put winterfell just below the Scottish border. But yeah not usually snowy
Erik Jarvis and they don’t fuck family members
...three months? ._. I'm not from Canada but from a part of Sweden which is milder than much of Canada... and we have cold weather up to seven months a year, snow for five-six.
Winterfell is more likely Scotland.
And this is the reason I fucking hate Assassins Creed and Batman games. Four or 5 guys standing around waiting for me to kick their asses.
This is Batman we're talking about, he fights using improvised non-lethal weaponry as well as his fists, and I remember being surrounded and having multiple criminals attack me at once in the Arkham games, the only reason Batman can fight multiple opponents is because he can literally flip over people and dash around the room knocking people out in the blink of an eye.
Because muh dark arts ninja magicks.
Try Dark Souls then, 5 guys waiting for the right time to kick your ass.
Revenor Dark Souls 2 is most guilty for this.
Dark souls enemies don't time their attacks between eachothers to stunlock you, each enemy act on its own accord and if it happened that you were stunlocked my multiple enemies then it's just a general case of bad luck in a Souls game.
Colossus Anger Amigo, Dark Souls 2 is programmed for every mob to gank you as soon as they see you.
Dark Souls 2 is so goddamn cheap and unfair in comparison to Dark Souls 1.
This is really old GOT footage but could you analyze the training footage of Arya stark and Syrio Ferell.
This was the newest season! Its only like a month old. It's when Bran was watching his father in the past
I think he means back in season 1 when Syrio Ferell taught Arya the 'water dancing' sword style
+Red of the Roo He was referring to the scenes from season 1 with Arya and Syrio, I think ^^;
+Red of the Roo he meant, that his suggestion is of old footage
Red, that's not what he meant.
Read his comment again. When was Syrio part of the show? SEASON ONE. As in, old footage.
Ser Arthur Dayne was still the best fighter in all of Westeros.
Damn I don't wanna see the rest.
Who knew Sir Arthur Dayne was a Gotthard's user... Well, at least he's not buffing it with DMB or CMW.
canser intensifies
R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1
The 2017 parry king we all need
And then came the backstab
The Inventor You mean L1 L1 L1 L1 L1 L1 L1 L1 L1 L1 L1 L1 L1 L1 L1 L1
The meming is real, well done Skal, we are so proud of you
I would love to see your iteration of that scene where every action and move was realistic, but still emphasize Daynes abilities to reach an almost inhuman level.
it would help if the two dudes didnt have shields. they were so incompetent with the shields that it would have been more believable if they didnt have them.
It's simple...he takes all of the opportunities he didn't and all of his opponent's lay broken before him in under 5 seconds.
Skall should just take his HEMA buddies and a camera and just make their own cool scenes, with terrible costumes and a ridiculous plot.
Or the two shield bearers could have been depicted as raw recruits/militia
and at the end, one opponent remains, crawling away, in fear... and he ends him rightly!^^
"That's enough Ned picking"? ;)
Too soon, 6 seasons aren't enough to forget about his death !
uh oh...someone got there
Musashi would tell you in the Book of Five Rings, that fighting with two swords is superior to one, just for the fact you can block and attack at the same time or fend off two opponents.
Realistically, he killed over 60 guys in duels, so there's something.
1) Musashi used a shorter blade, which is how you dual wield in real life, usually knife and sword, he did the same
2) Musashi specifically trained for it and essentially invented the style
3) musashi was a superhuman, no matter how good you are, you can't sword fight multiple people in real life, the only reason he could is because he was literally built different
4)Musashi still primarily used one blade at a time
5)musashi killed most of his opponents in the first slash and blocking was not in the equation for most of his duels.
6) when musashi used his double sword style it was against multiple opponents and he used them to keep attacking and killing multiple people at a time, not to defend better
7) dual wielding a Japanese katana and a short katana is not comparable to dual wielding two handed longswords.
8) the big problem here is that Arthur in the books was a legendary swordsman with a legendary great sword which he wielded with the speed of a knife, now he's got two random longswords that look ridiculous and aren't even that special
Great vid. This was pretty funny how you used meme faces, and it did make me chuckle. good points all around. Movies do tend to go for looking cool over the person being a competent swordsman, and it only seems to work because it's a battle of who appears to be more clueless. But I digress, nicely done video.
Thanks.
What movie fight *is* as close to realistic as you've seen?
In real life it isn't easy thing to attack at the same time as your companions. You are scared that you might hurt them or you are thinking :" Oh he is much better than me, sure he can do all of the work and I won't get hurt."
Bullshit. Just look at HMB and bohurts, on at group melees posted by scholagladiatoria. In group fight it is most likely that you get hit from the side or from behind while engaging someone.
Kamil Szadkowski I mean real life... You will survive most of your HMB fights...
Kacper Matysiak Well, yes but most is a good word here. I think that pain is enough to punish stupid actions in HMB.
Yep. Though it should be considered that many people might loose their compsure and forget about what they learned during a real battle, these guys here are also elite knights. Sure, they might be a bit more clumsy than in a training session where they can't get hurt, but it shouldn't be that bad either. Aside from both Daynes and Ned plot-armor, there were many points in this fight where any novice shakign from fear could have killed them easily.
+Nate Windwood Because they are fighting Best swordsman of all times? After 15 years everyone who saw him in a fight still claims that he was the Best... Even his enemies
As Ned once said to Jaime: "You've chosen your opponents wisely".
My experience as a bullying victim tells me that when you are surrounded and outnumbered by the enemy, the smart thing to do is to go towards the smallest bad guy and break the circle so you have the option to escape, or repeating the formula until they consider retreating...
hey, could you do a video of easy to learn but hard to master weapons?
I kind of did that already. ruclips.net/video/iJAykL20Sc4/видео.html
+Skallagrim the fight mountain vs. the red vibe would you say that is a realistic highly skilled use of a spear in combat?
ethan meenehan
Too much twirling and exaggerated movements. To be fair though, he was deliberately showing off.
+Skallagrim could you recommend any movies or youtube videos displaying exceptional skill with a spare?
+ethan meenehan first fight scene of Hero with jet li
I thought it was a great on-screen fight. If they tried to make it realistic it would probably just be boring. I'll take fun over boring any day.
Realistic fights are not boring at all. Skilled sparring looks great.
Yeah, but the thing is that this fight in the book was 3 vs 7, not 2, and there was no mention of crazy 1 vs 4 swordfight of Arthur. It was added by showrunners to make fight look more "cool" and "hip" (like they always do), but instead made it look ridiculous. Toughest fight in Ned's history, 3 legendary kingsguard members against 7 pretty good warriors. 7 men go in, only 2 get out. What a fight that could be if executed correctly! I dont want to sound like on of "books are always better" types, but they fucked it up.
I beg to differ. The sparring video you put up (the one you had privacy issues with) was on of the most boring fights I've seen. If the whole GoT was filmed like that I'd fall asleep!
+Ross Kopynets well...that was fairly amateurish sparing covers from a distance with one mostly static camera and no invested drama on the viewers part.
Just the addition of some clever angles and cuts would liven it up significantly. Lots of movie fights would be down right boring if you were just watching from a few meters away.
Ross Kopynets
Pfft... peasant.
If you can use screenshots, then you should also be able to use "clips" i mean it's technically just a bunch of pictures per second.
Jonathan Hansen ooo
what next ? if you can show a picture of 1 second of something you can show the entire thing, let's all just upload the entire GOT series on youtube!
You can this guy is just paranoid
@@tomburgess8485 Even if you're in the right, a legal claim can still cost you a lot of time and money, especially against a big company that has their own lawyers with experience in handling these lawsuits.
S1rWakka No it doesn’t. It’s a RUclips claim. It takes like a month to deal with and costs you no money and it’s almost certainly not the creators of GoT who are claiming his videos
Actually, this got more chuckles than expected. Kudos for making this work without video clips!
Since I started to look at Skall's and Lindybeige's videos, I can't enjoy movie fights like back in the day. Truth is an heavy burden.
Yeah I'm screwed too. At least we still have books!
You can try finding enjoyment in laughing at the fighting, and feel good about your superior knowledge instead of being amazed by the skill of the swordsmen. :D
And ignorance is bliss.
Ned didn't attack Arthur in the back because he believes in honor
Did he also kill Arthur on his knees with his own sword because he believes in honor? :)
no he was finishing him off after Howland reed interrupted their duel (dishonorably) by stabbing ser Arthur Dayne in the back, Ned's strike was a mercy blow to end it.
gavin blair
But with his own sword? That's a little scummy, don't you think?
That was regrettable accident.
thePavuk
Either way, I don't find it very honorable that Ned was just standing around while Dayne was busy killing the others.
I didn't see the scene up until now but this video was pretty hillarious as well as informative :D Great job!
since I started mma training 10 years ago I can't watch martial arts films any more
Ignorance is bliss, isn't it? :)
Yup. I did a lot of fencing and some JSA and the fight scenes in movies are really cringe worthy :)
But they do look good.
I hear you...same problem here. I've walked out of movies several times for the same reason.
I've been practicing Jujutsu since I was in my early teens, the trick is to not look so closely, focus on the story and make your own mental image like you would reading the book
+Skallagrim Do you have any examples for sword fights in movies or tv, that are actually realistic? I would love to see a video about those.
I guess Obi-wan vs Darth Vader in A New Hope. Appart from the ridiculous spin Ben does x)
+Kalaam Soulstealer The fight looked like it did, because the actor was lying about beeing able to sword fight.
He made a video about an anime series.
I've also seen it, and I have to agree with him, it has the most realistic medieval equipment and fighting I've ever seen, better than any medieval live action movie or tv show...
*****
Yup!
No, the lightsabre fight in A New Hope is retarded. They're not spinning around and doing backflips and shit but it's still a classic case of constantly swinging out of distance, swinging at each other's weapons, binding weapons for no reason and all that rubbish that pervades stage fighting.
I've read the books 3 times and I don't remember Ser Arthur Dayne being mentioned as wielding dual swords. He definately was the greatest swordman of his time though, and that scene made me giggle in excitement, probably one of the best sword fight I've seen in a movie/tv show (although I don't have a very large movie/serie culture). Subscribed!
I am so happy that you made this video and that i stumbled upon it. I practice martial arts too, though of a different kind. I watched this scene during the episode atleast 10 times. Each time, i paused and rewatched individual movements hoping to see something brilliant. Didnt find it, so i moved on. Very glad that you did this. I checked out your other videos too and subscribed. They are good. It's a bit unfortunate that we dont come across good stuff unless they cover something from pop culture.
Hilarious video! And some nice frame-by-frame dissection! Well done, and thanks alot :)
Can you review Arya's fight with the Waif in season 6 episode 8 ?
she gets stabbed in the guts with the knife twisted, no one without a surgeon could put your organs back together, surface stitches will not stop internal bleeding ... irl arya would be dead as a door nail
Xenibalt I said episode 8. When she uses Needle
Yes! That was one of the best choreographed fights in the show. Along with blackfish in the same episode.
Yeah. I really liked that part when arya kind of mirrored the blackfish his strikes. And I really like the part when that other thing happend
to answer you question, the fight was very real. Slashing the candle the way Arya did was authenthic.
I can't believe the butchered a badass character's fighting style to make it more flashier, he wielded a fookin greatsword that was as pale as milkglass, alive with light. What's more badass than a kingsguard butchering and slaughtering northeners with the GoT equivalent of a lightsaber? Fookin hell.
Just discovered your video thanks to this video. Binge watching your channel now! Thanks for being awesome!
*Channel not video LOL
I was thinking the same things when I saw this whole fights for the first time. Thanks for this video
Seems to me that if the Lord of Winterfell rode to confront someone at a fortification, he may have chosen to bring several hundred armed men to include archers, crossbow men, spearmen, engineers/sappers, etc. Just like it seems to me the opponents at the fortification would have remained atop the battlements and taunted the armored horsemen that had arrived armed with only swords ... (see Monty Python's excellent depiction in The Holy Grail's French Taunter scene regarding the futility of pseudo-horsemen demanding anything from a castle garrison)
52RH Flight The idea of single combat in any war is retarded, but you have multiple instances of it happening in the books too.
Several hundred men would be slower than 6.
Because their men were occupied fighting alongside Robert. Ned and a a few men were supposed to be swift and fast in saving Lyanna.
Use your brain.
Pretty sure this answers it “I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them.
“We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered.
“Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.
“When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”
“Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”
“I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”
“Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.
“Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.”
“Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.
“But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.”
“Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.
“We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.
As much as I love GoT, the swordplay does not fail to disappoint me most of the time(Actually John Snow does well enough). Especially Brian of Tarth, she swings her sword as if she is having a stroke. And I know nothing about fighting with swords.
what bout jon snow fight
A big improvement, I thought. Though he did send one guy flying with a swing of his sword. But hey, it looked cool. But then, I always did like Jon Snows sword fights.
Brian of Tarth lol.... well she does look pretty masculine in some ways.
since Long Claw (Jon Snow's sword) is valyrian steel, it should have cut that dude in half but that would have been more costly and it still looks badass
Kit Harrington got a lot of real swordsman training when he starred in the movie Pompeii. It was a god awful movie but the skills were transferable to Game of Thrones so you can noticeably see the difference in the way Jon fights before and after the movie.
great video! thank you for the work you put in.
now I remembered your "How to deal with flashy swordsmen" video, it was great
please do the battles of Vikings
great analysis Skall, I know that your swordsmanship knowledge rooted from European style but I kinda hope you're doing similar swordfight scene analysis on eastern/asian/chinese movies too in the future maybe something like "crouching tiger, hidden dragon"
Man, I love those!
Movies like _Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon_ (2000) and _Hero_ (2002) are some of my favorite movies of all time.
The choreography is not particularly realistic (hey, it's Wuxia!), but boy is it fun!
P.S. A few people on RUclips have added lightsaber effects to the last battle between Michelle Yeoh and Zhang Ziyi, and it's EPIC!
Better than any swordfight from the actual Star Wars movies!
+TheFilthyCasual yeah, there is something really fascinating on asian style fight scenes in general. It looks like a dances but both fighters/actors seems really trying their hardest to hit each others, the sense of danger keeps lingering during the fight. Fearless might be the last movie in my recent memories that has a great sword fight scene.
Croz Raven
Well, on one hand the actors are actually trained in martial arts and very skilled, they're generally not using doubles, allowing them to do all kinds of crazy stuff, like the famous Tony Jaa uninterrupted fight scene from _The Protector_.
On the other hand, in the Hong Kong film school at least, they usually have a specialized action director, who's usually also the choreographer, that takes over from the regular director for action scenes.
Hollywood tends to use too many jump cuts, which takes the "oomph" out of the fight.
Of course, we can't expect all actors to be professionally trained martial artists.
But I think a little bit of training, better choreography and better filming and editing would go a long way...
And yes, _Fearless_ was awesome!
Bendy spears and whippy swords. Enough said.
Eh, Skall's usually fairly honest when he is just positing from theory vs. from experience.
Great analysis! Enjoyed it!
I remember watching this 4 years ago. Man how this channel has grown.
Ned Stark was standing politely still because Sean Bean didn't think his character was supposed to live to his 30s
That intro is awesome!
Just saying, in the book the Sword of Morning wields a great sword called Dawn which is made from meteor and glows white light...Much cooler than two ordinary swords.
Dawn is there, just not a great sword, and not pale.
Excellent video, subbed
the amount of memes in this video
Skall, listen, I loved watching this video and all, and you made very interesting points.....but the memes need to stop, please.
i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/423/untitle.JPG
If he doodles on the pictures, hes transformed the material, making fair use and immune to copyright strikes. He has to do it to keep his videos up and people clicking on them. RUclips dosnt pay if the video isnt there to click on.
+Skallagrim Mememaster Skall has spoken
This video made me giggle. The rage faces were on point.
That aside, I'm glad for such vids since it helps with my writing. *subscribes*
You didn't know Ned was Canadian? He's from the NORTHERN KINGDOM
In the books, a great deal of Dayne's power comes from his family's ancestral greatsword, Dawn. Only a highly skilled swordsman was allowed to carry it, and was then called "Sword Of The Morning". The show should have stuck with this idea, and conveyed the power of Dawn.
talking shit about star wars: dislike, unsubscribe, cry in my pillow
aw...dont be so butt hurted, neon pole fans
sincerely, a trekkies ;p
Very enjoyable analysis, thank you.
Wow, and how did I not notice that? Awesome work, Skallagrim!
I know you said that you're a novice so that people don't lose their minds and start bitching about "YOU CANT TALK ABOUT THIS YOURE NOT A SUPREME GRAND MASTER FOLDED 1000 TIMES SWORDSMAN" but honestly it just makes the entire thing seem even more ridiculous XD. If you, the novice, can point out all of this while trying to be funny... would hate to see an expert tear it apart!
Matt easton of scholagladiatoria is a very skilled swordsman who talked about this fight, although he was wuite lenient on it as it is a tv show fight for entertainment.
*quite
Blocking and deflecting a two handed strike, is incredibly hard with a single hand while duel wielding.
It is much easier to use both swords to deflect an attack. In which it is better to just use a two handed sword.
It *somewhat* hurts defensively but dualwielding increases one's offensive potential miles higher than with a two handed sword so it kinda depends on what you're going for.
This one made me giggle, nice work with the images in the video mate. Sucks about RUclips not understanding fair use.
great video it had a side effect as in your analysis let me know that what I've been practicing with my dowel wielding is a practical use and that the awkwardness is do to my lack of skill with two weapons even though it was unintentional it still help thank you and keep up the good work
They really do hate shields in GoT. When was the last time anyone saw a main character using a shield? I believe it might have been all the way back when the Hound fought Beric Dondarrion. There were no shields in the battle at the Wall. Neither the Night's Watch, nor the Wildlings used them. Stannis' army didn't have shields. In the latest battle, the Bolton army had those greatshields to form a wall with, but did you see a single footsoldier or rider with a shield? I didn't. It's like the representatives from the Seven Kingdoms convened at some point in the past, before the show, and decided to outlaw shields in Westeros because they thought they weren't cool or something.
Ned and his friends fight with honor. They don't stab their opponent in the back (damnit Howland Reed)
Ethan Eicherly "better to be a coward for a second than dead "
frostedy0 if you start backstabbing then all of it will be of no use
"Honor is a fools prize, glory is of no use to the dead."
With honor... 4vs1.... suuuúre. Seriously, skallagrim granted an overview of the incompetence, but seriously, the attackers were seriously bad. And Dayne wasnt any better. Horrible coreography. I could script a better one.
The bar is so low I can't possibly fall XD The scripter havent sparred in his life for sure (with or withouth swords) Just by taking the shit out of the script I would have made a better one. Add some fancy techniques here and there that you take from historical sources, maybe even invent a new one if you want... but please make people understand how the weapons they wield are used. The main advantage of two swords is that you can use both at the same time (normally one blocks and the other attacks) and yeeeet he is to busy dying while flourishing his sword in stupid patterns to do that XD
This was very interesting and entertaining. Thanks!
That was the best review of a fight I have ever heard.
Very informative video Skall, I enjoyed it, thanks for taking the time to post it.
Just to run with what you said about shield use, they really do hate shields in this series don't they? Hardly anyone is ever equipped with one; unlike any historical period from the ancient up to the late medieval (when full plate armour became more common and the need for weapons such as pole-arms more necessary). Shields were practically universal in those periods for professional melee combatants for the simple reason that they are excellent things for blocking attacks (far better than using a weapon).
However, GoT is hardly the only fantasy/medieval/ancient series or film to escrew the use of shields. Guess they're not as cool as twirling your sword around :P
well you don't need to make it realistic .. just not stupid .. can't imagine this scene being worse by making him move bit more to avoid being surrounded or killing few of the guys swiftly .. shields were being used in early episodes .. I remember tyrion using one to kill a man .. I mean thats reasonable somewhat also he used it to cover himself from rocks too .. wish they use more of that for duels too ..
Yeah I'm pretty sure the only scene that I can think of which uses shields in fighting would be Achilles vs Hector in Troy
Honestly they could have done a better job in the fight. This wasn't just historically inaccurate it's down right incompetent.
***** Because this is more historical fiction than fantasy. All magic is treated as religious nonsense by most people and it isn't a very obvious thing, it's about people and places and there interactions, about wars and kingdoms and nobel men, not magic and monsters and spells.
Also just because it's fantasy doesn't mean it can't have historically accurate parts.
***** Yeah I mean take a look at lord of the rings, it's about heros, magical creatures, good vs evil, all sorts. Here magic and wounder barely plays any part.
This is fantasy based loosely on historical events for some of it. And there is plenty of magic, more and more as the story progresses. It could be argued the whole series is about the awakening of magic in this world.
Zenith is a dumb ass Gil, can't explain magic in the series to fucking kneelers like him.
Zenith Wills shit I missed that part in history class where dragons roamed the earth at one point
I definitely got a chuckle out of this. Good observations my friend.
Nicely done. Loved the faces.
Good luck with your job application for swordfighting choreography.
The industry needs you so much, I still can't recover from the lame orc fights in the hobbit last movie.
You rock, Skallagrim.
Matt Easton was able to show the fight scenes on his video
yes yes yes!! I so like how you did this video. Also could you make a similar sword fighting scene but from a martial arts perspective? cheers!
Great video!
My main issue is that Ser Arthur Dayne did not duel wield swords in the books, in fact he was famous for the sword he used. It kinda bothers me that they just ignored Dawn, which is considered to be possibly the best sword in there is in the world of the books. Would've been kinda interesting to see a greatsword vs greatsword fight as it would've been if they'd stuck to the books.
I have a strong feeling that the upcoming battle in episode 9 is going to be very cringe-worthy from the perspective of someone who cares about realism/"historical" ( =medieval setting in this case) accuracy. We already saw in the promo trailer archers performing the stereotypical "arrow rain" at the battlefield even when their own troops were fighting in the front lines, an infantry charge from what seems to be a mile away, helm-less heroes (of course) and even soldiers, an almost complete absence of shields in the bulk of the wildling army AND (apparently) the cavalry (even though they head up against arrows and pikes), and a very suspicious shield design which looks something like a board shield from mount and blade, bastardized to be even bigger and used with two hands (it's kinda inconspicuous in the trailer).
I am not an expert by any means, but the whole setting seems dodgy at least. I hope the battle will be better fleshed out than what the trailer promises, but then again GoT is not known for having good swordplay/fighting scenes and I don't have high hopes.
Would really like to see a dissection of that battle in the future, as it seems it will be a big event in the show (screen-time and budget-wise speaking)
Cheers Skall and keep up the good work!
**Yep, that's what I thought. Thank you very much for making a video about this!**
i absolutely love the sarcasm in your videos grimm hilarious!
I've always been unsatisfied by the "why are they attacking him in turns?" argument, because, I would assume that, in real life, people hesitate. Imagine the circumstance. You and your friends are fighting this extremely intimidating legendary warrior, who has killed hundreds of men. If you're not an organized team that has specifically trained in working in sychronization, it makes perfect sense that you would all each build up enough courage in turns to attack. Plus, it's even more dangerous in a swordfight, because you have to be careful not to accidentally harm your friends.
These men are supposed to be people with real battle experience. The "why are they attacking him in turns?" argument is absolutely valid in this particular. situation.
+David Kaus I think you're right but they could have killed themselves if they rushed like tards. and this kind of situation is rare on a battlefield: no swordsman as skilled as Dayne would be dumb enough to put himself in such a stupid situation.
That's doesn't say much. Even today, real soldiers with real training and experience do become demoralized sometimes, or even have complete mental breakdowns from the combat stress. It's not that strange for a soldier to be afraid, and scared people make mistakes.
Except reality would beg to differ. If you visit certain sites like LiveLeaks, where you can see videos of humans being murdered by individuals... or armed gangs of machete wielding assailants in Africa or parts of Asia... you'd see that they in fact swarm on their prey at once as they cut their victim to ribbons. They do not take turns, they just swarm like ants on a rotting apple and hack away. To my surprise, I seldom if ever see any of the assailants accidentally hit one another in the process (if they do its usually an elbow - not with their machete or improvised weapon).
Arthur Dayne was the most famous sword in Westeros to be fair. Fear would change the landscape a bit. I personally think both Movie fighting and HEMA are probably off the mark in terms of realistic sword fighting. Death, the fear of death and life ruining injuries would most likely change almost everything about how a fight is conducted. I know from modern day soldier friends who've told me that even their combat manuals are usless because being in a real dangerous situation makes everything in the manuals useless, so I can only imagine medieval manuals would be much the same only way harder to interpret.
omg le rage memes I remember those from like 2010
They are still alive and well on 9gag. :)
Unfortunately, yes
"Squishy part goes toward threat" is my favorite critique of cinema fight scenes now.
Great video. Great considerations. :D
Ned Stark confirmed Canadian.. it makes sense.
Wait, so it is fair use if you put meme faces on the actors faces, but everything else is the same?Yeah that totaly makes sense...
Copyright stuff doesn't make sense by default. And pictures are generally treated differently than video.
Plus I think it deals with the scan they do of the video, I've heard stuff about youtube running the video through a program looking for a 1 to 1 match
A company named Sky wanted to sue Hello games,cause they used the word "sky" in one of their games title.
Chroma
They should sue planes. xD
schmid1.0 wut?
I don't get it.
Do you think you can do a video about Warhammer 40k melee weapons, particularly the chainsword?
Nice analysis! Where do you study sword fighting?
Also, is he dual wielding two hand and a half swords?
Hey Skallagrim, you can bypass the copyright filters by adding a big frame to the clips you want to show.
Tried that in the Conan video, didn't help.
invert the image and change the framerate. Basically flip the image so that left is right and right is left, and slow the video, you don't need audio so it wont be so bad.
You can also try messing with brightness and adding a vignette effect.
Also you only need it to play for 1 - 2 seconds each time and then stop it to comment on what just happened. There are reaction videos on RUclips that play entire scenes of the show and apparently they don't get taken down.
hbo seems pretty calm about copy right and has a ten minute time limit to the amount of footage alowed to be shown per episode. reaction videos tend to have a timer on the side to prove they are within this alotted time. you should look into it if you plan on more GOT videos.
This was great!
Hey Skallagrim, what do you think the best off-hand weapon would be? Do you think a parrying dagger is best? Or perhaps something that would be used more strategically such as throwing knives? Or maybe just stick with a buckler or shield? Just wondering what your thoughts on side-arms were.