As a widower, I completely vibe with Keyleth's devotion to Vax. In a D&D game, where gods and magic make death another state of interaction, I have longed for such a moment in real life that I didn't create through tricking myself. I ain't saying Luna is wrong... I probably still need to heal. But I respect Kiki's call for making that move whenever she wants.
Yeah, I feel you. I would be unimaginably hard for me to "let go" of the person Iost in a universe with actual miracles... that your friends could cast. Also, Keyleth is an elf, they take a century for what humans do in a handful of years.
I have to say I would definitely be there with Keyleth. What is worse for her is she is potentially one Wizard away from being reunited with Vax. I can definitely see her still suffering. It is bad enough losing someone but to know that person still exists in the world and in theory you could planeshift to where he was but a god wouldn't let you near him... That would make things even worse.
I mean people come back to life all the time. Look at Dianna. I also don't understand why Vax can't just head back to Exandria, it was never really explained. What good is being the champion of Death if you're doing nothing with that power in the first place. Vax comes down when he feels like it like when he protected Kiki
@kingraistorm In a temple to the Raven Queen vex died. Vax exchanged his life for hers. So effectively he is bound to service of the Raven Queen because of that oath. The oath is also one he chose to uphold and didn't try to back out of. Effectively he isn't dead. He just serves the Matron of Ravens and presumably his sister would die if he goes back on his oath. He is breaking the rules every time he comes to see her.
Re: the Veth hot take, I think Sam has also compared her to his own wife Quyen, who’s frequently on the road or working on film projects doing big & exciting things. And while his own marriage is strong and Q is a present, loving mother, he wanted to push himself to experience that side as Veth in the later half of the campaign
Damn right, Cad was awesome! So many clutch plays and wisdom for days, right down to being able to hit the Icky Thong with a very deep roast. Masterful play, Talison
Early Campaign 1 is a great way to see what less-professional D&D is like. The group was still learning in the rules, for example. They also had not yet realized this was going to be the majority of their careers, including absences due to other shoots (not just Ashley). Heck, Sam was often late because he was coming from "work". People coming in now and seeing the super-polished professional D&D performances might enjoy seeing how it all started... and also what actual D&D is like for non-pros. I know folks will take exception to that last statement, but you have to see Campaign 1 to get it. Matt couldn't count on the players "accepting the offer" and Player v Player and Player v DM conflict was much more prevalent. You can learn a lot by watching them learn to work through it, which I think is good for any aspiring player/GM.
Not that the more recent episodes are not real D&D games - are there fake D&D games? - but if people watch C3, they should also definitely watch early C1 and the last arc of C2, because you learn a lot from them as players and especially as DMs. Personally? I like all 300+ episodes, even the ones that people don’t like, because over produced or not, fancy tables or not, nice minis or tokens…. All of them are real D&D games.
@@SevillaLorenzo-kd2ef I would say there are fake D&D games... more in the sense that the game is clearly made more for an audience and the players play to the audience rather than specifically the game being for their characters. The games typically come with a lot of fake tears over a character that has been in the game for two days of filming and other such characteristics.
Well part of the reason they might’ve struggled with the rules at first is because I’m pretty sure they changed game systems when they started streaming, I believe they were using Pathfinder before but I could be wrong
My hot take: I prefer when CR tells "smaller" stories. The constant veering into people wanting to become gods or defeating gods or what have you are way less interesting to me than, say, the Briarwood arc or Caleb's traumatic past. Gimme a dragon over the "should we even have gods" talk any day.
I think this is a big issue of this campaign's story. It feels so beyond our party and wide reaching in effect that it seems silly to follow them, like they aren't really the main characters. It seems like we should have followed Beau and Caleb more or any returning character like a tv show would. All that being said The question of "should we want or have the gods?" In a setting where the gods are tangible and have influence is a really interesting philosophical question. I' m really interested in what they think at the end or how "the end" will chang things for the world.
That's what I like about campaign 2. They really hit the sweet spot of how grand the plot should be. Personal stuff and political conflict are really fun, and save the world-ending threat for late late late game.
@@boxlflox9094 i like how underprepared bells hells seems to be in comparison to the grander mystery that immediately starts unwinding itself at the beginning of the campaign, personally makes hype moments all that much higher to me
Another positive thing about arc 1 of Vox Machina is going through 27 episodes of Percy being in the background makes it such a welcoming surprise when his moment comes in the Briarwood arc. It really felt like a moment when a hidden gem finally shines
As someone who skipped the ark I think this is a really good call out. I started it episode 20 just after they came up from the underdark. I had a few lead in episodes to get familiar with the cast but I'll be candid that listening to Orion with seriously distracting without knowing the troubles that were going to blow up in episode 27
@@LuboffinI'm on my first playthrough, and I'm regretting shutting out Karlach in favour of Shadowheart. I find Karlach really horny. Horny, geddit? 😂
Mollymauk did do at least _one_ thing more important for the Mighty Nein than die... without Molly going round and dragging each of the little mini-parties from the Session Zero games together, there *_wouldn't even BE a Mighty Nein._* Without him going from table to table and pulling the rest of the PCs into the circus plot - and in doing so inserting himself and Yasha as the other characters' common points of connection - there wouldn't really be any reason for everybody to work together to catch the Devil Toad and stay together as a party afterwards.
I think the reason they don’t add more stats or show item cards is due to the comments they’ll receive like “ that’s not how that item works! That’s not what I would do! Your math is wrong! Read your spells marisha!” . Also I agree with Robbie being permanent. It felt like he healed a lot of the damage Orian did and that the table was always meant to be 8 ppl.
Yeah, gosh they got pummeled on Twitter, etc in S1. I wouldn't put the Robbie thing quite like that. The table isn't missing anything with 7, but I think Robbie worked his way into our hearts despite that. Nothing to do with missing someone from C1.
I fell in love with CR starting with the Underdark arc. I understand why ppl recommend starting with the Briarwood arc but the Underdark is a good mix of dark and fun.
i find the underdark isnt really bad at all, and its where orion has some of his better moments - its after that when CR got more momentum that things started to fall flat for me, and when i started to notice how bad he could be. Ill never forget the arrow telekiniesis or the shopping episode he dragged out
The only episode I skipped through was Orion's last session. Marisha's discomfort with him was so palpable... FFS, I didn't even skip through the ungodly marathon of the kraken fight. ... I'm not gonna pretend I paid attention the whole time, but I didn't SKIP it.
@@Brion57042 my first ever watchthrough I never skipped an episode, not even the worst Now I can hardly bare it through anything after the underdark, and skip where I need to, and stay for the glimmers of joy Part of me wishes Tiberius could stay, he was one of my favourites in the underdark. But know how bad things got with Orion, I'm glad it's unfolded how it did
I have a lot of nostalgia for that arc, because I vividly remember stumbling onto Critical Role, starting episode 1, and about 20 minutes in having a CRYSTAL clear certainty that I just found something truly exceptional and that it will change my life. And I was right!
Absolutely agree about having seen enough of Delilah at this point. The more she gets brought back, the more trivial her character becomes and you lose the allure and mystique associated with her. Plus, like you said, the more she shows back up after being "killed off for good yet again", the more Matt has to twist himself in knots to justify bringing her back. It's like a comic book series where the villain is killed off or written out in a significant way, then is brought back later- that diminishes the significance of that original moment.
See I love all the filler bits and the adding of dice etc. That's what really draws me in and makes me feel part of the game and not just watching a producton like with D20.
8:40 - As someone who lost their parents when I was young, you can tell that you never lost anyone close to you. (And that is a good thing.) That pain NEVER goes away. So Keyleth not getting over the pain of Vax's loss is COMPLETELY natural.
While I cannot relate to you I agree with your point. Also, on a more fantastical but related point, even half elves live hundreds of years. In the case of Kiki she's essentially immortal now. Three decades is a big part of a human's lifespan but for her it really isn't much time at all.
Is it really that bad? There were better sugetions, but I don't care about the name that much. Neither "Vox Machina" or "Mighty Nein" are objectivly brilliant names either.
Probably a cold take but I wish Laudna and Imogen had started out already in a long term relationship, just because I think it'd be interesting to see the dynamic that could create between PCs across an entire campaign.
Not only did Molly's death set up Lucien and the whole endgame for Campaign 2, it also created a pivotal moment for the Mighty Nein which set the tone for much of the campaign going on from that. It also opened up the group to Caduceus, which was the source of guidance the Mighty Nein needed to grow after that experience. It really was Molly's most impactful moment.
At the end of the day are they really driving the plot or is the plot just happening to them? M9 sometimes had problems with floating until someone's back story became the main thread. This group doesn't seem to have any major plot points that connect to the backstory except for Imogen. They aren't collecting artifacts for a final fight or trying to acquire allies, they're basically wandering around trying to figure out what's going on. If I was a player, I'd be enjoying the hell out of it but maybe it isn't great television
My problem with delilah is that her character is exactly the same, I think she’s been a bit flanderized as a Sunday morning cartoon and hasn’t made any manipulation of Laudna in an intelligent way but almost brute forced it in such a way ofc she’s gotta go
I'd love for them to do visuals and update HP during combat, I dont think it would be wildly difficult since they had it for the beginning chunk of C2 and they were doing that live.
Ofc campaigns are mostly filler. So is life. Enjoy the filler in CR, D20 and in life. Skipping to moments or milestones or "plot" means you miss out on a lot.
I hear each of your concerns but I dearly wish there was some editing done. Keep the whole show but trim down the dead time. Watching Ashley take 5 minutes to take a single turn at points is maddening for a professional D&D player who works for critical role full-time now.
Matt at one point relayed what his original plans for Lucien were, apparently he was supposed to be a sort-of body snatcher spirit looking for his original body (I.e. Molymauk) taking over various NPCs and PCs, not unlike Orin in bg3.
I have a very odd theory that could be very troubling if it turns out to be true (again, very odd theory and could be reading into it all way to much). What if Ludinus and The Raven Queen (the mortal woman who ascended) have a deeper relationship than appears. What if they knew each other in life (Age of Arcanum) and have been working towards some grand plan of erasing the gods for hundreds of years. She would have essentially acted as a "spy on the inside", as a god among other gods.
Could be cool, especially if something like they were going to let their research end until she ascended and he forgot and was left with nothing but the work and blank where she was.
I've been hoping the Raven Queen is part of an long-con inside job. There's some weak evidence for and against it. I think it is unlikely, but after the events of the solstice my tinfoil hat has been firmly attached.
That would be a fun twist. However, It would mean The Raven Queen was in on Ludinus capturing Vax in his trap where he exists in uninterrupted torment... so that part is a theory breaker for me. She wouldn't do that to her Champion.
I have a similar theory, only mine is that Ludi and RQ dated in the past. However Ludi was a toxic bf towards RQ so she ascended to godhood and left his ass. Ludi got pissed and decided that if he can't have her then no one can. It's also why he used Vax as a divine component for the mallus key because he was jealous. But that's just my theory.
On the Imogen Main Character Syndrome thing, that seems more on Matt than Laura. On an episode of 4 Sided Dive Laura basically said she told Matt that Imogen had nightmares of a storm and he responded with "by the way, your storm is red." So yeah Laura didn't know she was connected to Ruidus that was all Matt. This is from the same 4SD where Tal said the Party is like a bunch of NPC's as well. It's called 4-Sided Dive: Party of NPCs if anyone would like to go watch it.
I have this problem in my own campaign. 2 of my PCs have a very clear drive and goal, my other 3 are literally just here to explore and have fun… One of the PCs with a goal has told me he feels like the main character, and I told him he’s kinda right only because he has an actionable goal.
Delilah reminds me a bit of Handsome Jack from the Borderlands series. For those that know the game, we're currently in the Tales from the Borderlands part of the story. Spoilers for those that haven't played: For those that don't, Jack dies in the second game, only to reappear as a digital ghost in the heads of one of the protagonists. Over the course of Tales, he starts trying to influence and control Rhys, eventually attempting to take him over towards the end.
I really enjoy the recap clips to cut to the core and get the good juice of the storylines not only your and fraudonthetele recaps but Supergeekmike has a great critical role demystified series that shows lessons you can bring into your home game.
Since this is a video about Opinions(tm) I'll add mine to the pile :) Loved this, very entertaining! :D Love hearing your takes on this stuff. (Edna Mole voice) NO EDITS! :p I would be really sad if they started editing like other shows do, it's one of the things I love most about them, I'd hate if they cut out "filler" or started having different camera angles, because I love that we get to see all of the nonsense around the table, the crosstalk and the reverse math, Sam playing with plastic feet, Laura hearing something funny and losing it during someone else's turn, all of it. When shows focus the camera on one or two people at a time we miss other players' reactions, and seeing the whole table is just more fun. [/long winded] I love how surprised Marisha and Laura were by Imodna, it really did feel like it happen organically, since neither of them planned for the characters to be a Thing(tm) and it's just such a fun example of characters kind of having their own ideas once you start playing them. Caduceus > Molly. There I said it. I thought Molly was great, and I'm sad we didn't really get to see the whole character that had been created, or see them really get to know the whole party better, but honestly? I just like Cad better. When I think of M9, Cad is the character I miss most, and I wish we'd gotten to spend more time on his story, it felt like a lot of it got a bit squashed. (If he's not in the reunion show I will be kind of gutted.) Veth is SUCH an interesting character, I was honestly a little surprised when she didn't leave? There was a point where it started to feel like she REALLY didn't want to be there, though it also made total sense that she stayed, too. Delilah WAS a fun villain, now she's just kind of... watered down? It feels like she's been de-fanged entirely. She SHOULD be a threat, they SHOULD be afraid of her, Whitestone was right to have guards lined up at the mere chance she might return, but now she's just a slightly annoying voice in Laudna's head? It feels weird. YES, the DISTANCE THING! If you don't want to use distances, don't have a grid on the map. If you do (and Matt clearly does use it for his own monsters) then the players get to use it too. It's bugged me since C1. Robbie was brilliant and I wish he could have stayed.
I gotta be honest i have never understood the connection some people think there is between Laudna & Ashton. They're friends sure but it's really not that deep. As for Imogen & Laudna, all i have to say is, has no one heard of Friends to Lovers?? Their story is almost a textbook example of the trope.
If they'd start to edit, it would lose the main reason I'm interested. Sure the story is great but the main thing I enjoy is their banter, their little fun character moments, etc. It's also why I don't find D20 that enjoyable. It's great for those who prefer edited shows, that there's a lot of recaps on RUclips, great work. But it's one way how different shows are different and work for different viewers. Hard agree on Delilah. She was fantastic, one of CRs best villains. But let the woman rest.
I wasn't a fan of Mollymauk, so his death didn't hit me like it did the rest of the fandom. I was very interested in what character would be introduced to fill the seat. Then when we got Caduceus I just felt like he was a reskin of Matt's NPC, Pumat Sol, even down to the voice and energy level he gave him. You even see a shift in the way Matt portrays Pumat Sol from the first time to the next time they meet, Pumat's energy level is increased and his speech pattern is as well. I'm not saying that Cad didn't become his own character and have great moments. But I just feel like the similarities were too difficult to overlook. Trust me, I know it's an unpopular opinion, I know. But when a character has been introduced that is absolutely amazing, and has such a positive reaction from everyone, and then a very similar one appears its very easy for the magic to just gets sapped away, and create a disinterest.
My hot take: If you aren't going to have a live show, actually do something that justifies pre-recording it. Have multiple camera angles like D20, make small cuts when nothing is happening, add visuals and overlays to give the audiance info. Track stuff like HP, spell slots, conditions, etc and give us some visuals during combat so we can keep up. Give us more camera angles on the map and minis! Technically, you can do a lot of these things LIVE there are tons of live productions that use multiple cameras and do live overlays. But if you aren't even going to do the show live anymore, then there's really no excuse for not taking that time to improve the production quality. Also: Why is Matt all by himself? There are 7 players, they have a whole crew, and there's still nobody who's job it is to look stuff up for Matt? To make sure he has all the minis he needs? To keep track of hit points for him?
My hot take: Matt needs to be more consistent when ruling crits outside of combat. When performing a skill check a player will roll a nat 20 and the whole cast gets excited, but then Matt chimes in with “For a total of…?”, really deflating the moment. All the while any nat 1 is an auto-fail no matter what, regardless of the modifiers that could turn the failure into a success. It’s just an inconsistency that weighs against fun.
Without going through the literal thousand+ hours of Matt DMing to pull actual episodes and time stamps I can only say that there have definitely been moments (stealth checks being the most clear offender) where someone has commented that with all their bonuses it adds up to x and Matt replied "It's still a one." I have very high confidence in this because my Tism screams in my brain when it happens, and that shit is memorable.
Yeah, Ludinus is NOT doing the right thing. IF Ludinus is being transparent, he's a hypocrite, putting his faith in Predathos, a thing that no one really understands (like it's a God). There's also no guarantee it would stop at just eating the Gods, it may come for Exandria next. Not to mention the very likely possibility that Ludinus is not being transparent and has something crazy up his sleeve to take ultimate power for himself and essentially (or literally) become a God.
So Bells Hells are in the right because, 1. You can't trust Ludinus' intentions 2. Ludinus is killing innocent people in pursuit of his insane plan. 3. You can't trust Predathos to stop at the Gods.
As much as everyone keeps saying they would like to see him at the game more... I feel like there has to be some specific reason that he hasn't returned yet. Though it does make it hard to have guest characters with him there... I still would like to see it more.
I think another reason he may not have been a permanent addition is simply because he couldn’t. We all remember how Ashley was very touch and go due to her acting career so it just might’ve been that Robbie couldn’t stay longer
I am a Campaign 3 baby, I only started watching about a year and a half ago. I dove in when Campaign 3 was still pretty fresh. I absolutely loved Dorian. I had no idea Robbie wasn't a permanent cast member and I was sad to see him go. I think the true tragedy here is he hasn't returned in any capacity. Campaign 3 hasn't had many guests in comparison to other Campaigns so far but thats cause they're around longer and not just 2 episodes. Dorian should of taken a role similar to Zahra and Kashaw in Campaign 1 where they're constantly retuning. Dorian helped start all this, he better be there to end it
I think CR would do well with having the game streamed "live" with no edits as usual AND an edited down version on RUclips with cuts and stuff, a la Dimension 20. Though they may feel it would clutter up their feed too much.
Haha loved this video 😁❤️ My hot take is still that a few campaign arcs with more personal arcs is more enjoyable than one big arc. Definitely also agree with previous commentors about the Nat 1/Nat 20 Skill Check discrepancy.
Regarding the Dynamics section: In some RPGs, making the characters together makes perfect sense, because the party is likely one that is assembled by an external force (commanding officer, archbishop, merchant patron, etc.) and were assembled specifically for a range of skills and talents, so there won't be a whole lot of overlap there. That kind of cohesion in a classic D&D campaign (and so far all three CR campaigns) would definitely kill some of the immersion for me, since most parties do simply "meet in a tavern", and unless some god or cosmic force kismets them, there's no reason for there not to be overlap.
I have missed these videos so much! And I love to learn more about people's unpopular opinions! I share your perspective in most of them, and of course, I would love to bring one of my own: I feel like C3 happening during rhe hard times surrounding TTRPG news this year (with Hasbro being pure assholes, pardon my French) has affected the way some of us perceive the story. We always knew that CR would eventually develop their own game, but the threat of Hasbro looming over Exandria makes it feel like CR is hurrying... and that stuff that maybe wouldn't happen in C3 is happening in a certain way to prepare the terrain for Daggerheart. And if Predathos gets free and starts eating the gods, for example, there will be people (myself included) that won't be able to fully see it as a consequence of BH and their enemies' actions, but as Matt's hand being forced to make sure their company won't be at risk because of Hasbro ever again. I don't know, maybe I'm just overthinking it. Do you have your own thoughts about this?
I agree. Definitely feels rushed somehow. To be fair, i may be off here because Istopped watching full episodes around episode 13 because it felt really slow to me. It doesn't feel like the players are driving the story forward, it feels like its just happening around them. If the main villains are driving it forward its not being shown to us. I feel like this campaign will end on a huge shake up which is hopefully when I hop back in.
@@boxlflox9094 Yeah, like... I don't mind some pacing for efficiency, but in less than a year so much has happened that I have developed trust issues XD I no longer know if something is happening because it was supposed to happen or because it was the more convenient thing given the real-world circumstances 😅
DEFINITELY agree that Robbie shoulda been a permanent party member. I love the hell out of him, and I wait for his return. And I'm with you on the Slow Burn Karlach train.
Taking a lil of the heat off Orion (not defending him at all!) but the biggest reason I'd skip the first 20 something episodes of C1 is simply because the tech and setup was rough. Sound mix was terrible at times and production wise it just wasnt up to quality yet. Made parts very difficult to watch (or in some cases, more difficult to watch). If I was watching that live at original release, I probably wouldnt have continued to watch. But going back after seeing what they became? Yeah. That was worth it.
I can understand Keyleth lasting mourning for Vex. I lost my grandfather about 20 years ago now, he was really important for me, growing up, I'm still not over his death. Some people just don't process death and mourning the same way that others (and I do want to see Keyleth become really pissed off and trash some ruby vangard pliz)
My hot takes regarding ships would be I was a Widojest shipper, I love me a broody sad boi with a ray of sunshine, and I still kinda think they would have been better together. I kinda agree with the Imogen and Laudna remaining friends, and I initially shipped Imogen and Dorian together. That said I'm not disappointed with any of the relationships we've had though. This might be a super hot take but if anyone can tell a better love story than Tolkien's Beren and Luthien, I firmly believe it is Liam and Laura, they would create the most epic love story of all time. Non relationship hot takes, I agree with the Mollymauk thing, the best thing he did was die. He was a poorly developed character and Taliesin didn't seem to have a very good grasp on him. Caduceus was a much better character. Scanlan Shorthalt and Loquatius Seelie are the only Sam characters I have liked, the others have annoyed me to no end. I love the cupcake moment, but the most underrated moment in that episode was Beau's speech about leaving, one of the best character moments of CR history, and not enough people talk about it. Finally Critical Role became Critical Role when Liam made the choice to have Vax kiss Keyleth. Everything before that point they were messing around and having fun, and Liam made a decision that pushed the entire group out of their comfort zone, and every deep RP and character moment since has been ripple effects of that, and it is what makes CR different than other liveplays.
I totally agree with you about the cast planning in between games, I played a campaign where the DM told us not to talk about anything when we weren't at the table and much like CR we would spend time in game planning and then not following the plan (it's not that fun)
I feel like Critical Role should either be completely live (like it used to be) or it needs to be more thoroughly edited. I am not a fan of the middle ground they have struck. The show can absolutely be edited and a MUCH stronger product overall. Imogen is the main character and it kind of sucks because it is pretty obvious when Imogen's story is over, so too will the campaigns. I do not feel like we have been able to delve as deeply into every character's overall narrative as well as we had done in the past. This campaign, sadly, feels like it was designed to be easily convertible into a TV show. I am sure it will be really rad too (especially compared to the way they have had to string shorter adventures together in the current show) but.... It leaves me wanting for something different, while watching the "original source material" (i.e. the actual play). I hope Matt (or whoever DMs the next campaign) does a better job of balancing the various characters. The visuals are something that makes me roll my eyes because it is all pre-recorded now. It is really easy to slot those visuals into the video in post. Given the way Daggerheart was developed, I feel like the visuals will come back for that game, as so much of it is short, pithy and card based (which will be easy to throw up on screen). Robbie should have been added to the cast. He brought a vibrancy to the table that I think is lacking since he left. Having said that, 8 people is way too many, especially for an actual play. Matt seems to have difficulty balancing the narrative needs of 7, let alone 8 (or 9 when a guest shows up). For the next campaign... I kind of want them to explore the idea of having a couple of characters break away for an arc, so we can have a smaller group at the table. Like go back to the 5 or 6 episode story arc; every arc, 2 characters leave to go handle something (often, setting up a future arc). That way, the table only has 5 or 6 characters for every arc, which, IMO, would make for a more watchable product (that's my hot take)
It's a lot of episodes BUT everywhere you can watch/listen lets you adjust the speed at which you do so. Increasing by 75% on YT is still listenable without being too Chipmunk-y and it really makes a huge difference over the course of a campaign.
My Hot Take: I love Matt and his style.... but he asks for too many checks sometimes, especially when it's low stakes and a character is trying to do something they specialize in. Maybe he doubles the outcome as a barometer for how lucky they are with it overall but it feels like (especially in C3) there's been a lot of rolling for things that don't actually need it.
With C1, I gotta say, one of the best bits early on was the whole flying carpet and Vex. The caught on air example of Will Wheaton rolling so many Nat 1s and was excited that he got a 2 or 3 was brilliant!
I don’t think CR has filler, I think that’s just the format, ya know? That doesn’t mean watching full episodes is the only way to consume the show, but I just think it will not be CR if it’s edited to make it less rambley and stuff.
Definitely agree it would be great for them to develop characters together in a session zero. I wonder if part of the reason why I'm struggling to enjoy campaign 3 as much is because all of the characters are so different and unique that it doesn't feel as cohesive a party to me. I definitely miss the onscreen visuals we used to have. Since it's now filmed ahead of schedule I do think they could do a bit more post-production stuff. I think at minimum there should be an inclusion of trigger warnings, but health counters in battles would also be incredibly useful. Yep definitely agree that Robbie felt like a natural permanent addition to the group right from session 1, and I was really hoping he'd be back with them by now. I definitely felt like he balanced the group well in terms of bringing a more level head while also joining in with the chaos at times. They certainly still seem to use him a lot in their merch so I wonder if they're preparing for him to permanently join the lineup in C4, and Travis or Sam may take a backseat to focus on other areas of the company. This was a fun vid! Thanks for sharing it. Also love the luboffin coloured tie-dye shirt. Hope you've been keeping well and feel more relaxed now you're not making the recaps x
my two hot takes about c3 are: - i know matt has said multiple times at this point that it has always been a dream of his to bring back characters from past campaigns as npcs and all that but all the callbacks we had ended up making me like this campaign less, i know it all served a purpose in game and even outside to promote the cartoon but idk it just felt like nostalgia bait that eventually shoved bell's hells to the side line and feels like we're missing the chance to see more personal stories with these great characters because we're doing a world-ending event and we have to accomodate for all these powerful "npcs" that exist in the world - also the whole should gods exist plot lost me completely because it feels like endless repetition that everytime it seems they've reached a conclusion they just circle back to it and I understand is a difficult question and all but as someone watching a show it just got really boring to watch after some point, it's supposed to be an interesting philosophical question but just completely lost all the meaning for me after so much repetition (it's the whole reason i'm on a break from c3 cuz i couldn't sit through another redundant "oh but the gods..." discussion, like please just move the plot along) anyway, great vid! thanks for letting me vent out my frustrations XD
OKAY YES the vax/keyleth thing, I 100% agree. Esp. because in the campaign 1 wrap-up Marisha did specifically say that she envisioned Keyleth moving on after some years of grieving for Vax. It's one of the few ways that I wish Matt had changed his portrayal of Keyleth. re: Imodna, yes platonic relationships are great. Most character relationships on CR are platonic friendships so there really isn't a derth of that portrayal. So what is the problem here? I do understand ppl wanting to see a qpr on the show.
I think for the clips, that yes an edited down version will give you a perfectly fine way to experience it. (Especially if you’re catching up etc.) but their is stuff you will miss that might have been a best moment for you or things you would have noticed that the clipper didn’t find important enough. I know when I watch clips/edited versions of episodes there is stuff I think they miss out on and stuff I didn’t even notice in the clips.
I agree with your example about players asking if the enemy is within 60 ft. If you are going to be a stickler where the spell fizzles out exactly at 60 ft and not an inch further, then in-world the characters would have an innate sense for judging exact distances. If you want the characters to be unsure if they can reach or not, then you should make the boundary fuzzy by for example rolling to see if they are in range so sometimes they succeed and sometimes they fail. Either one of those strategies is fine, but mixing together firm and fuzzy boundaries just drags things out at the table without actually adding anything fun.
If the take about campaigns being mostly filler is meant in its most literal context: meaning content that doesn’t provide substantial value to the overall plot or story, then yeah I guess I can agree. An episode that’s 4 hours can typically be recapped in a couple minutes. But if they’re meaning filler in the way that most people mean it in that it’s content you can typically skip, I just plainly disagree. While I suppose you COULD skip over some of that stuff when you’re going to rewatch, I love having all that stuff included. Being with the characters almost every moment, even in some of the mundane parts, really allows me to get a grasp of who that character is, how their mind works, how they relate to the rest of the party members, how they manage to use their abilities, etc etc etc. It’s what makes the characters real and relatable to me. Especially when I’m watching live. If I’m rewatching and have already seen an arc, I may skip over parts where *SPOILER WARNING FOR C3* they’re crawling through a cave so I can get to the part where Ashton and Fearne dive into the lava pit to retrieve the shard. That’s because I understand who these characters are already. But when I’m watching those moments live, I’m hanging on EVERY word and action, even in the lulls. Shopping episodes for example are some of my favorite! Getting a taste for the kinds of goods or clothes they are interested in can say a lot about the characters, or it can flesh out the world Matt has built by giving us an idea of what kind of foods and clothes and wares are being sold within this culture. Maybe that’s just because I love all the players and love all their characters so it makes them inherently interesting to me, but I just love having all that “filler” there too. Not content to just be ripped out of the box and tossed aside.
I also really wished Robbie stayed as a permanent member, but based on what we know now about plans to mix things up as well as pass on the torch when the time comes, having Robbie be apart of a secondary group of characters that have connections to larger plots (Dorian to BHs as well as Deni$e, Opal and the spider queen, the fantasy mob) as well as building up a secondary cast can allow viewers to become more familier with new cast members incase they ever switch of the main campaign. I feel like the main campaigns will stick with the main cast for a long while, but perhaps more EXUs will include secondary stories that take place around the same time as the main campaign and the two could mix. Having a second cast could be a lot of fun.
12:53 I disagree. Info accessibility will make all of CR's mistakes more apparent. When they used to track HP bars onscreen early C2, the HP bar diverged from what they players recorded fairly frequently. Whenever they remark audibly what their HP were, comparing it to the HP texts can be risky. This is followed by a fair number of criticizing comments. A few have the gall to suggest it was actual attempts at cheating. I rather it not being accessible to so people can't get so caught up with the discrepancies.
I think they can get around this now since they prerecord eveything. When they were doing it live mistakes were common, but now they can do it in post. This won't eliminate every mistake, but should eliminate most. I do agree it will take away some imersion to see the health trickle down, but also in this medium we are missing a visual element to indicate how hurt someone is. I can sorta see it both ways.
Remember what Matt and the rest of the cast said early on in the beginnings and still say to the best of their abilities to this day. They want to keep this show as close as they can to just a bunch of friends playing dnd at home. Of course times have changed since the beginnings, something they never foresaw but maybe dreamed for. They are now a fully formed company with a staff of support and a state of the art set to play the game and a large amount of critters out there. Matt and the cast has stated on several occasions, ( with great appreciation ), even with all this nice stuff around we just want to sit with our friends and play a game of dnd. They enjoy just getting back to the basic root of what started it all. It is a day they can just release all of lifes stresses and for a few hours enjoy each others company with no holds bar. I feel in this new time they are doing a great job creating a company that can grow and also remembering where they came from, that has to be hard to balance and as an old critter I'm proud to be there with them. Remember to love each other.
My only real issue with Robbie being permanent is it doesn't really leave space for other guests. Aside from that, love him to death and only want to see more of Dorian.
Its Funny all 3 of Sam's characters (not counting Terry for this purpose) almost all had a very valid reason to leave the group. PS - Nothing wrong with the amount of focus on Imogen's character, the larger story at hand just ended up being about Imogen's back story and there is nothing negative about that.
My hottest take is probably that I enjoy a lot of CR's other content more than the main campaigns. And I say that as someone who has been quite invested in C3 specifically for some time now, love at least 4 of the characters (about the same number as in previous campaigns) and usually watch the first broadcast (and sometimes a rerun as well). But I would be perfectly fine with no traditional C4 and more miniseries or multiple shorter campaigns. I may also be unusual in that I've personally had a very positive experience with the fandom -- or rather those corners of it I quickly figured out were 'my people'. Probably helps to have low expectations and lots of prior experience with curating one's social media.
Agreed with more of these than I expected. Biggest agreement is on RIP Molly (I adored Caduceus) and No More Delilah Please. That being said, it's their game and I fully support their choices.
Glad to see your video pop up. ❤ Hope you are feeling good in things. Miss your recaps, mostly because I still feel lost with some things in CR. I will say that if we mean what hot take is a frustration, then for me it’s when an entire episode doesn’t seem to go anywhere. I know someone else said “fillers,” but I think we are talking about different things. If I get bored with a filler moment, like some shopping thing, then I can just skip ahead (I don’t watch live). But when it’s the entire 2-3 hours or a few times, seemingly the entire episode, then I don’t like that. Oh well…not a big deal. I can just not watch. LOL I just like the story and want to see them get moving ahead, and often it feels like they lost the plot themselves.
Totally agree about the metagaming. In combat it feels like they are each playing their own game, not playing together. They don't seem to know what the other characters are capable of doing and they don't have ideas about what the other players are likely to do. I believe knowing the ins-and-outs of party members from a tactical gameplay side is equally important and compelling as knowing them from the role-play side.
To the under darkarc part, I listened from the start when I went to catch up, and I don’t remember most of that arc. It was probably somewhere around the Briarwoods before I really got hooked, so I didn’t skip it, and I didn’t regret going through it, but I could have missed it. There’s reasons LVM started where it did, and not all of them involved he who apparently must not be named.
my hot take is that i hate when matt makes all nat 1's an automatic failure, and nat 20 is not an automatic success. they used to do it that way, prior to like halfway through this campaign, and it's bothered me since matt changed his mind.
8:16 I don’t think it’s so weird sometimes the love of your life passes away and although moving on can be good for some it’s not for everyone Kiki and Vax may just be those ones that have a love that lasts longer than death can keep you apart
In regards to Imogen having main character syndrome, I feel like there was a point where Matt tried to give Fearne the spotlight as well. She's also Ruidusborn, and her parents were an integral part of the story for a bit. It's just that Ashley seems to forget how connected to the plot she is, and so Matt just kinda stopped trying.
Ashley is a national treasure and must be protected at all costs. That said, I just don't think she's up to the task of being a Main Character. To me, she's always come off as a 'just here for the fun of a good story' player, and that's perfectly fine. A good DM knows how to recognize that, and not hang too much on that player.
@Brion57042 I agree. Don't get it twisted: I love me some Ashley Johnson. I just think there was a point where Fearne was supposed to be just as important to the story as Imogen, but Ashley just wouldn't play her that way.
I dont realy know if that is a hot take but I sometimes think that the episodes are to long, espacialy when they keep planing for like two hours. I also think that the fights are ro long,but like you said its theire game and I still love Critical Role 😍
15:43 they actually mentione on 4 sided dive a few times that they have a text thread where they plan but they usually either forget or can't make a solid one by the time the session rolls around 😭
My hot take would be that the worst thing about Vax's death was that it didn't give Keyleth a chance to break up with him. I was never completely sold with them as a couple. I always felt that he was the first boyfriend that you learn to take chanecs on, but then you learn to move away from. And I kind of feel like Keyleth/Marisha knew it. Especially after the goldfish incident, there were moments when it felt like Keyleth/Marisha were chaffing in their interactions. There were literal eyerolls at times. And it would make sense that she would have had to move on from him. He was too much of a yes man. A leader would need a SO who could call them out to their face and say "You're being ridiculous" instead of saying "No, we should not take on a green dragon right now, but if that's what you want, just say the word and I'll do it." A leader also would need someone with a bit of personal strength who could give them their support, but also their space. Vax looked to Keyleth for his happiness and purpose. She already was responsible for thousands of people. Did she really need a SO that needed her for his identity? And Vax was never her confidant. Who did Keyleth rely on to help her grow and give her the advice she really needed to hear? Percy, Grog, Kerr, and Sprig. Vax's whole bag of tricks is "You're perfect and you're wonderful!" That's what she needed at first, but she grew out of that really quick. She needed someone who could help her move forward. I feel that if they were a real life couple, she would have eventually found the strength to say "I love you, and always will, but we are better as friends." But when he died, she was chained to a relationship that never had a resolution. You can see that in the marriage one-shot in just how awkward their relationship had become. So that would be my hot take.
I have a new hot take for the newest episode (C3E78). 3 out of the 6 present players spent the whole episode being "That guy", and 1 of the 3 that weren't being "That guy" still had a moment of "That guy" in them. I see very little point in continuing watching anymore, because too big of a chunk of the characters take everything personal and are closer to becoming villains because they think the world is against them without any good reason.
To me Ludinus is very much a villain who's cause (or at least the cause he espouses in his rhetoric) is a just one, but his chosen means are not. If anyone here is familiar with The Order of the Stick, I kinda get strong Redcloak vibes off of him: he's convinced himself this is a just cause and that his more despicable actions are unfortunate necessities, but even if he started with legitimately noble intentions, he's followed a very dark path that reflects his worst qualities much more.
My opinion on some of the hot takes and some of my own: Imogen and Laudna - They absolutely should have stayed best friends. Sure representation is great, but I find it hard to say that they are good for queer representation, when CR has queer representation coming out their butt. None of Liam's longer campaign characters have been straight, neither have most of Taliesin's (I don't know about Percy, tbh), and that is just mentioning 2 of the players. We've had plenty of queer representation, and while I would never argue against more queer representation, I would, in this case, not use it as an argument for the 2 characters to be together, cause there is enough representation that 1 more or less does not change anything. Imogen being the main character - This is true too. They have been a bit better lately, but they even talked about on a 4-sided dive, that most of their characters feel like NPC's and Imogen is the only one that feels like a proper character. They mentioned: Ashton = Goon NPC. Orym = Queensguard NPC. Laudna = Creepy NPC. Fearne = Typical Fey weirdo NPC Visuals like health etc - They tried this in campaign 2 early on. They had things pop up about tips, fun facts or stats. In combat (sometimes I think out of combat too) they had the health of the characters on screen, but whoever was editing it live couldn't keep up. If you watch the episode where Molly dies, the screen says he has health left when he falls unconscious and is subsequently killed despite the screen showing he has health. (I believe the mistake was them forgetting to subtract crimson rite damage) They aren't consistent with their distance measurements - Okay, this one is driving me fucking insane! They play on a square grid, fine, but they still play the game as if they aren't on a square grid. Now what do I mean? On a square grid with how they are playing, going diagonally is still only moving 5ft. If you take 2 seconds to draw a 5ft circle, you would see that diagonal lines would allow for farther travel for the same movement than straight lines. Which is why the rule books basically say: If you play on a square grid, make circles into squares for consistency. Nope, we are using circles in CR. And then Matt brings out the ruler when distances are far enough, which then also is NOT consistent with a square grid. In campaign 2 (spoilers for a scene close to the end) they at some point run from the Tomb Takers, and they do so by running off the map, which is fine, it happens. But the Mighty Nein are then off the maps before the Tomb Takers, and as a way to handle some character being on the map and others off, he says the characters off the map aren't placed at the correct distance, just in the correct direction of them running. All the minis were therefore too close together to represent the correct distances, so they wouldn't have to reach over the entire table. Then Matt brings out the fucking ruler to figure out whether the Tomb Takers can hit the Mighty Nein with Eldritch Blast... Matt you fucking dingus, if they aren't placed correctly, you can't use a ruler, because you are too similarly to theater of the mind. Get your shit together!!! Control your fucking distances people!! Also, yes, Molly's death was literally the best thing he did for the Mighty Nein
Essek: I just don't get it. Molly: It's true, there really wasn't that much going on with the character before he died. Though I do think things would have gone similarly in the end, just from a different direction. Underdark: Don't skip this. It made sense to skip it in the animated series, but I liked it and thought it had some really cool stuff. There's not much point skipping it on your first watch. Ludinus: He has some good points, but like many complex villains his answer to the problems is the wrong answer. Dynamics: I sort of get the point here, but it makes sense to see how things work out when you don't intentionally make things "fit" before you start. Imodna: They were fated to be together from the start and I'll fight anyone on this until my dying breath. Filler: Well sure, it's D&D. There is a reason that Vox Machina is able to plow through the story so much faster. But this isn't a show like Naruto that just spends time wasting your time on purpose. It's actual play D&D. But sure, editing some of the hemming and hawing might make sense - but yeah, the format makes editing hard since they don't change camera angles. Kiki & Vax: Unhealthy? Yes. Unrealistic? No. I can understand where she's at - but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be better for her to move on. Veth: Yeeeah... Imogen: I think this is sort of true, but it's not something Laura is doing. We also get a lot of Ashton though! Delilah: I love her, keep it coming. Visuals: Please oh PLEASE! Party name: I don't mind them naming the group after Bertrand, but the name itself I do NOT like. "Bells Hells" is just a weird confusing name that always sounds like a mistake. Metagaming: Eh, I don't think it's an issue to meta a little. I think there are a lot of situations that they make the game take too long because they're trying so hard to avoid meta. Robbie: I could take him or leave him.
Hot Take: Campaign 3 is heavily railroaded, as a direct reaction to how Campaign 2 was a sprawling disorganised spaghetti pile of plot threads that resolved all of it's major arcs well before the actual ending.
I'm not with Ludinus, but if I lived in this world I would absolutly be against the gods. Even if they were absolutely benevolent, they would hold an undo amount of power over mortal's lives that I would feel trapped in their game. What I want from the story is that ludinus is fanatical in his beliefs and also aware of how predathos could backfire. I don't want him to have an "oh no" where Predathos immediately betrays him or subjugate him. I also don't want him to be so evil that he will ignore an obvious example of him or predathos replacing the gods.
I guess I need to rewatch the UnderdArc of campaign 1. I genuinely don't remember Orion being as bad as his reputation suggests until the Granny Grinder incident (which, if memory serves, you will see if you follow the "skip directly to the Briarwood arc" advice). Like, I'm not saying he was a model player, but he didn't stick out as much more problematic than the rest until he buzz-sawed down a defenseless foe. And even then, at the time, I read his refusal to acknowledge that that might've been wrong as deliberately playing up a character flaw to have a story arc about. Which was maybe more charitable than was warranted, but my point is that, prior to that he really didn't seem to me to be the mance to table and the despoiler of fun that he's often made out to be. (And this is ignoring whatever he's done away from the table mostly because I have no reliable sources on that so I'm not informed enough to meaningfully comment on it.) Hell, based on what I remember, I'd be more inclined to skip the UnderdArc to bypass the worst of *Scanlan*.
8:46 well normally I’d agree with this technically mentally for her it’s been 3 years because Druid magic and being a half-elf. Completely understandable and makes a lot of sense why Keyleth wouldn’t move on, the traumatic loss of her lover in what felt like only a few years ago is definitely fresh on her mind. Doesn’t help that Vax sends her a bloody Raven every so often ya know the symbol of the goddess he serves that keeps the two from ever reuniting. So yeah I think it’s a bit understandable.
I agree that the show could probably benefit from some structural changes, especially with it no longer being live...they're recording and have been for a long while now, they can get away with switching some things up! (Including editing!) I know quite a few folks who've utilized the work of the many CR clip RUclipsrs as a means to catch up on prior campaigns (those who don't have the patience for watching them all, even at 2x speed). I get that the first part of C1 is hard to watch, for various reasons...that being said, there's alot there that carries forwards into the rest of the campaign that is important for later context that you can't get otherwise. Is the whole Vax'Leth situation healthy? No, of course not. Does it make sense based on who those characters are and what they've gone through? I think so. Tragedy never gets wrapped up nicely in a neat, tidy manner, even after 30 years. The whole situation is unbelievably sad and there are people who can go their whole lives without being able to move on, no matter how much help they might get from loved ones or professionals. As far as Delilah perpetually coming back? Gee...she was a necromancer who swore her soul to the service of The Whispered One, The Undying King, a lich-lord who, despite being banished from the Material Plane, did still succeed in making himself a god. So, yeah...funny how that works, innit? It's kind of implied in the deal 🙂 Personally, I don't see how any of the M9 would've survived to the end of C2 without Caduceus...Molly's death had such a profound effect on the rest of the group that it changed the whole rest of the game going forwards, I feel like they needed that experience to have perspective and clarity needed to win when Lucien finally came back around as the BBEG. As for Essek...I don't recall exactly how Matt described him initially, I feel like alot of the 'hotboi' perceptions were intuited/inferred by the cast and then transferred vicariously amongst some portion of the Critters, to the point that it 'became' canon. As for C3...personally, I'll reserve judgment until it's finished and wrapped up. Otherwise, love this video and looking forwards to seeing more like it...Keep up the good work Luna 🙂
CR is sooo different from short from actual plays like D20 and I love it for its differences and the time it takes. It’s also great when they do shorter stories but they are king of long term where they can build the party organically, not edit out the messy bits
...Okay, one more Hot Take: Campaign 3 should have ended when they assaulted the crater, rather than Ludinus pulling an "I was manipulating you the whole time!" they should have been able to defeat him there. Coming up to that, it very much felt to me like they were pushing to a conclusion, it felt like this was the final showdown. And if the campaign continued with other stuff after beating him that would be fine. But I feel like ever since, they've been on this weird side-quest streak like you get in a video game where the BBEGs big plot will just wait on hold for you as long as you're resolving side plots. The ongoing tension of this world-ending cataclysm that's about to be unleashed sort of spoils a lot of the more character-driven stuff they have been doing since then. If that arc had simply ended, it would feel a lot different. I was honest to got completely taken by surprise when the campaign didn't end there, I figured they were going for a shorter more succinct and direct story and I was okay with that. Now they just seem a bit lost.
13:01 not sure which champaign it was, but didn't they have a live/updating health bar? They still have a little stat chart, but not during battles. More visuals please!
Personally on the fact of metagaming in combat: I think its fine to a degree, like for strategy and planning. When you have a combat that last for longer than a few minutes, then it really becomes "how can we get them off ghe board the fastest way possible before it gets too dicey". Roleplaying wise: mostly no but eith fighting a tough enemy, im fine with it personally
I honestly disagree with most of the hot takes but eh🤷 I just also needed to express how much I love the glittery hair and eye makeup on Tal in the fish market clip, It accentuates his slow turn to Ashley after her comment... and it's also just hot ( sorry not sorry😂)
This was a very good video. Thank you. It will generate some discussions in my house. Cad > Molly Veth should have left Mighty Nein Robbie was amazing on Candela...and overstayed his time on C3 My own hot take: Respectfully, the cast should lean further in to encouraging their fans to develop parasocial relationships with the cast (and they should milk that for all cash they can).
I feel like the distance thing isn't even meta gaming. If you're trained to do things within specific distances, you're also trained to gauge those distances. Or else why have the the range listed on thr spell or ability at all
There's 5e character sheets for all of the baldurs gate 3 origin characters (including our best girl) in the game files if you want to use one as an npc or like a bg3 themed one-shot for new ttrpg'ers
My hot take kind of goes along with the first one. Molly's death made Campaign 2 watchable, but it's still only meh until after Oban dies. The entire first 2/3 of campaign two is a meandering mess that has no impact on anything. I don't hate it, but I'm so much more invested in the Bells Hells, starting from episode 1, than I ever was in Mightly Nein until after they defeated Oban. DO NOT SKIP the first episodes of campaign 1. There is a charm to the early episodes, plus SO much is introduced there. Don't start with campaign 2, definitely don't start with campaign 3 or ExU. Start with campaign 1 episode 1. "You can romance your friends in a platonic way." See the Critical Role cast. If you're watching Critical Role for story, you're missing half the show. It's about watching these friends hang out as much as it is watching them tell an interesting story. So yes, you could cut out a lot from the show and keep the story the same. But you would lose so much of what makes the show special. Imogen isn't the main character any more than Percy was the main character in campaign 1. Delilah is at risk of becoming the Joker of Critical Role. The whole thing of the villain living in a hero's head is reminiscent of Batman: Arkham Knight. Laudna is such a great character, and having her be stuck with Delilah made for great story elements. But when she died and BH went in to fight Delilah to bring her back, that should have been it. I wish that the next episode after that fight was Marisha alone at the table, giving her a chance to fight Delilah and take her power for herself, putting an end to Delilah forever. I miss the stats from Alpha. And because the shows are edited, there's no reason why they can't put that up on screen. I like Bells Hells, but there were some suggestions early on that I liked better. "Sweet TrouBell". I hate people who complain about metagaming. It doesn't matter. We don't see every second of their team's interactions, so it's entirely possible that information is shared outside of what we see. Lighten up and just enjoy the story. I agree that Robbie would have made a great permanent addition to the cast. So would Wil, Mary, Felicia, Will, Khari, Anjili, Amiee, Aabria, Erika, Mica, Ashly, Joe, Jason, Darin, Sumalee, Jon, Deborah, Utkarsh, Emily, Christian, Chris (Perkins, not Hardwick), Mark, and all the other guests that have been on their one shots. They just have a great line up of friends and they are so welcoming.
Opinions are like buttholes, but I absolutely disagree with you on many things First of all, any single episode from campaign 2 is better than campaign 3 has been so far Second, I started on campaign 2 and never watched campaign 1. At this point, watching the animated series is probably a better idea. People should start whenever they want Third, this show has waaaay too big of a budget to be just about friends fucking around and not about the plot. Again, watch the animated series for an example.
@@moonlight2870 I think those who started with campaign 2 have had the hardest time adapting to the changes CR have made. You get used to the style of storytelling campaign 2 had, and that makes it hard to transition to something else, either 1 or 3. Campaign 2 is very different from both in that they didn't have any overarching arcs until the final part with Lucian. They just meandered around for the first 80-90 episodes. Uk'atoha never felt like he was a present threat, and Oban was more of a personal threat like the Biarwoods than a threat to the world. And everything else up to Lucian was just random stuff. If you like that style of storytelling, that's fine. But that's not how they normally do things. Campaign 1 had very clear goals at every step of the way - defeating the Briarwoods, the Chroma Conclave, and then the ultimate BBEG. There are only maybe 20 episodes in the whole series that weren't part of an overarching story. And campaign 3 has been laser focused on the same story since episode 1. I get that it's different. I had a hard time accepting campaign 2 coming off of campaign 1. Honestly I still am ambivalent about most of campaign 2, but it grew on me. And that made it easier to get into campaign 3 and all the differences it has. I think if you drop your expectations, stop comparing it to campaign 2, you might like it better. As for watching the animated series instead of campaign 1, you can. But you miss SO much. Plot points that they completely skip, iconic moments that don't have the same impact because you aren't seeing how the dice played out, how the players reacted. Sure, it was cool to see Grog slice Kevdak in half. But you didn't see that Travis made a reckless attack (so rolled with advantage) and got a nat 1 and a nat 20. You didn't see the players erupt in celebration. And that's what I mean about the story only being half the show. TLoVM is great. It's a great story, and they did an amazing job translating the events of the game to animation. But there's so much you lose in that translation. Things that you can only get from seeing a group of friends sitting at a table rolling dice. You can't watch the players' growing horror as they realize the meaning of the Sun Tree. You don't get the spontaneity of watching these iconic lines being created right there on the spot. Caduceus' speech to Trent at the dinner is so much more epic seeing it as it comes from Taliesin's head in the moment, rather than reading it from a script. Sure TLoVM had so many of the iconic lines, but there was that energy of spontaneity missing. You don't see Laura reacting to Vex's death. Story will always be important, but the experience of watching these friends crafting that story, and reacting to it in the moment, is what makes the show special.
I feel like CR touched on the lesbian relationship nicely with Beau and Yasha, but long term platonic relationships have been in short supply. We got it a little bit for Caleb and Nott in Season 2, and for Grog and Pike in Season 1, and they were well received. But both had little screen time compared to the more romantic plot lines and I hope we could have a more developed long term friendship in the future. A bit closer to the Greek love of philia rather than eros. Hot Take- Mollymauk should have get way more credit for uniting the Mighty Nein and Bertram Bell almost seems like a formulated version to try and recreate that unifying moment for Bell's Hells.
I didn't like Bell's Hells name. But it could make a great tattoo (tshirt) Ghost ship art please. If they wanted to do this, I much preferred Marisha's Bell's Hellions but would have liked something without Bell in it... at the time I thought of bunch of different names. I also didn't want Laudna Imogen, I was honestly shipping Laudna and Ashton and honestly think it would do a lot for Ashton's character... once the relationship comes out, I was also hoping that Ashton would go utter immature brat for a couple of episode which would make him highly hated but would be very real for what I consider Ashton's character to be. PS: you made the vid about not wanting to do recap, this is much better for you I think BUT I also think the Recap was the wrong direction you started going. I found your y-tube because I was interested in conspiracy theories, and it kinda felt the recaps were done to help establish why conspiracies were happening. I think you would have been very unique and relevant if you stuck with theories even if the vids became short. There's still a lot out there (4-sided dice always gets my conspiracy blood roiling). Anyhow love seeing you and your take on stuff.
As a widower, I completely vibe with Keyleth's devotion to Vax. In a D&D game, where gods and magic make death another state of interaction, I have longed for such a moment in real life that I didn't create through tricking myself. I ain't saying Luna is wrong... I probably still need to heal. But I respect Kiki's call for making that move whenever she wants.
Yeah, I feel you. I would be unimaginably hard for me to "let go" of the person Iost in a universe with actual miracles... that your friends could cast. Also, Keyleth is an elf, they take a century for what humans do in a handful of years.
I'm so sorry for your loss ❤️ As I said, I haven't been there so I can't understand. I'm glad you find some connection with Keyleth on that front ❤️
I have to say I would definitely be there with Keyleth. What is worse for her is she is potentially one Wizard away from being reunited with Vax. I can definitely see her still suffering. It is bad enough losing someone but to know that person still exists in the world and in theory you could planeshift to where he was but a god wouldn't let you near him... That would make things even worse.
I mean people come back to life all the time. Look at Dianna. I also don't understand why Vax can't just head back to Exandria, it was never really explained. What good is being the champion of Death if you're doing nothing with that power in the first place. Vax comes down when he feels like it like when he protected Kiki
@kingraistorm In a temple to the Raven Queen vex died. Vax exchanged his life for hers. So effectively he is bound to service of the Raven Queen because of that oath. The oath is also one he chose to uphold and didn't try to back out of.
Effectively he isn't dead. He just serves the Matron of Ravens and presumably his sister would die if he goes back on his oath.
He is breaking the rules every time he comes to see her.
Re: the Veth hot take, I think Sam has also compared her to his own wife Quyen, who’s frequently on the road or working on film projects doing big & exciting things. And while his own marriage is strong and Q is a present, loving mother, he wanted to push himself to experience that side as Veth in the later half of the campaign
Caduceus was awesome
Yes, he was also the moral compass that group needed.
Damn right, Cad was awesome! So many clutch plays and wisdom for days, right down to being able to hit the Icky Thong with a very deep roast. Masterful play, Talison
Some of my favourite lines come from Cad. Help! Its again! Or 'we're running, its bad' or his whole speech to Ikithon
Early Campaign 1 is a great way to see what less-professional D&D is like. The group was still learning in the rules, for example. They also had not yet realized this was going to be the majority of their careers, including absences due to other shoots (not just Ashley). Heck, Sam was often late because he was coming from "work". People coming in now and seeing the super-polished professional D&D performances might enjoy seeing how it all started... and also what actual D&D is like for non-pros.
I know folks will take exception to that last statement, but you have to see Campaign 1 to get it. Matt couldn't count on the players "accepting the offer" and Player v Player and Player v DM conflict was much more prevalent. You can learn a lot by watching them learn to work through it, which I think is good for any aspiring player/GM.
I agree. It definitely felt more like a regular game of D&D back then.
Not that the more recent episodes are not real D&D games - are there fake D&D games? - but if people watch C3, they should also definitely watch early C1 and the last arc of C2, because you learn a lot from them as players and especially as DMs. Personally? I like all 300+ episodes, even the ones that people don’t like, because over produced or not, fancy tables or not, nice minis or tokens…. All of them are real D&D games.
@@SevillaLorenzo-kd2ef I would say there are fake D&D games... more in the sense that the game is clearly made more for an audience and the players play to the audience rather than specifically the game being for their characters. The games typically come with a lot of fake tears over a character that has been in the game for two days of filming and other such characteristics.
Well part of the reason they might’ve struggled with the rules at first is because I’m pretty sure they changed game systems when they started streaming, I believe they were using Pathfinder before but I could be wrong
My hot take: I prefer when CR tells "smaller" stories. The constant veering into people wanting to become gods or defeating gods or what have you are way less interesting to me than, say, the Briarwood arc or Caleb's traumatic past. Gimme a dragon over the "should we even have gods" talk any day.
That's true in a lot of heroic fiction. A lot of the best comics and novels in a series focus on the smaller stories.
I think this is a big issue of this campaign's story. It feels so beyond our party and wide reaching in effect that it seems silly to follow them, like they aren't really the main characters. It seems like we should have followed Beau and Caleb more or any returning character like a tv show would. All that being said The question of "should we want or have the gods?" In a setting where the gods are tangible and have influence is a really interesting philosophical question. I' m really interested in what they think at the end or how "the end" will chang things for the world.
Yeh same. My hot take in the Discord was that I prefer a few smaller campaigns with more personal arc moments than one big one.
That's what I like about campaign 2. They really hit the sweet spot of how grand the plot should be. Personal stuff and political conflict are really fun, and save the world-ending threat for late late late game.
@@boxlflox9094 i like how underprepared bells hells seems to be in comparison to the grander mystery that immediately starts unwinding itself at the beginning of the campaign, personally
makes hype moments all that much higher to me
Another positive thing about arc 1 of Vox Machina is going through 27 episodes of Percy being in the background makes it such a welcoming surprise when his moment comes in the Briarwood arc. It really felt like a moment when a hidden gem finally shines
As someone who skipped the ark I think this is a really good call out. I started it episode 20 just after they came up from the underdark. I had a few lead in episodes to get familiar with the cast but I'll be candid that listening to Orion with seriously distracting without knowing the troubles that were going to blow up in episode 27
Karlach is ruining all of my real life relationships. I'm constantly comparing everyone to Karlach and no one is living up to her hahah
Be the Karlach you want to see. I'm trying to maintain a more positive attitude about life and she's a great example in some ways.
Agreed. Why can't Karlach be real 😩
@@LuboffinI'm on my first playthrough, and I'm regretting shutting out Karlach in favour of Shadowheart. I find Karlach really horny. Horny, geddit? 😂
Mollymauk did do at least _one_ thing more important for the Mighty Nein than die... without Molly going round and dragging each of the little mini-parties from the Session Zero games together, there *_wouldn't even BE a Mighty Nein._* Without him going from table to table and pulling the rest of the PCs into the circus plot - and in doing so inserting himself and Yasha as the other characters' common points of connection - there wouldn't really be any reason for everybody to work together to catch the Devil Toad and stay together as a party afterwards.
I think the reason they don’t add more stats or show item cards is due to the comments they’ll receive like “ that’s not how that item works! That’s not what I would do! Your math is wrong! Read your spells marisha!” .
Also I agree with Robbie being permanent. It felt like he healed a lot of the damage Orian did and that the table was always meant to be 8 ppl.
Yeah, gosh they got pummeled on Twitter, etc in S1.
I wouldn't put the Robbie thing quite like that. The table isn't missing anything with 7, but I think Robbie worked his way into our hearts despite that. Nothing to do with missing someone from C1.
I fell in love with CR starting with the Underdark arc. I understand why ppl recommend starting with the Briarwood arc but the Underdark is a good mix of dark and fun.
Definitely can't skip meeting Kima and Clarota or how difficult it was to heal Vax's foot after the lava
i find the underdark isnt really bad at all, and its where orion has some of his better moments - its after that when CR got more momentum that things started to fall flat for me, and when i started to notice how bad he could be. Ill never forget the arrow telekiniesis or the shopping episode he dragged out
The only episode I skipped through was Orion's last session. Marisha's discomfort with him was so palpable... FFS, I didn't even skip through the ungodly marathon of the kraken fight. ... I'm not gonna pretend I paid attention the whole time, but I didn't SKIP it.
@@Brion57042 my first ever watchthrough I never skipped an episode, not even the worst
Now I can hardly bare it through anything after the underdark, and skip where I need to, and stay for the glimmers of joy
Part of me wishes Tiberius could stay, he was one of my favourites in the underdark. But know how bad things got with Orion, I'm glad it's unfolded how it did
I have a lot of nostalgia for that arc, because I vividly remember stumbling onto Critical Role, starting episode 1, and about 20 minutes in having a CRYSTAL clear certainty that I just found something truly exceptional and that it will change my life. And I was right!
Absolutely agree about having seen enough of Delilah at this point. The more she gets brought back, the more trivial her character becomes and you lose the allure and mystique associated with her. Plus, like you said, the more she shows back up after being "killed off for good yet again", the more Matt has to twist himself in knots to justify bringing her back. It's like a comic book series where the villain is killed off or written out in a significant way, then is brought back later- that diminishes the significance of that original moment.
See I love all the filler bits and the adding of dice etc. That's what really draws me in and makes me feel part of the game and not just watching a producton like with D20.
8:40 - As someone who lost their parents when I was young, you can tell that you never lost anyone close to you. (And that is a good thing.) That pain NEVER goes away. So Keyleth not getting over the pain of Vax's loss is COMPLETELY natural.
While I cannot relate to you I agree with your point. Also, on a more fantastical but related point, even half elves live hundreds of years. In the case of Kiki she's essentially immortal now. Three decades is a big part of a human's lifespan but for her it really isn't much time at all.
Tbh... I don't like Bell's Hells as a group name, but it isn't that big of a deal.
I dont think they like it either, but they had to settle on something
Same. I dislike it mildly.
Is it really that bad? There were better sugetions, but I don't care about the name that much. Neither "Vox Machina" or "Mighty Nein" are objectivly brilliant names either.
Probably a cold take but I wish Laudna and Imogen had started out already in a long term relationship, just because I think it'd be interesting to see the dynamic that could create between PCs across an entire campaign.
Not only did Molly's death set up Lucien and the whole endgame for Campaign 2, it also created a pivotal moment for the Mighty Nein which set the tone for much of the campaign going on from that. It also opened up the group to Caduceus, which was the source of guidance the Mighty Nein needed to grow after that experience. It really was Molly's most impactful moment.
Imogen doesn't have main character syndrome, the rest of the party has major NPC syndrome. She's the main character by default.
True
On an episode of 4SD they actually mentioned this and joked around that the majority of their characters are basically glorified NPCs
I remember this being talked about a while ago and the theory definitely had legs for a while.
Hmm, I'm not sure about this, at least not anymore.
The characters have really expanded and characterized themselves much more
At the end of the day are they really driving the plot or is the plot just happening to them? M9 sometimes had problems with floating until someone's back story became the main thread. This group doesn't seem to have any major plot points that connect to the backstory except for Imogen. They aren't collecting artifacts for a final fight or trying to acquire allies, they're basically wandering around trying to figure out what's going on. If I was a player, I'd be enjoying the hell out of it but maybe it isn't great television
My problem with delilah is that her character is exactly the same, I think she’s been a bit flanderized as a Sunday morning cartoon and hasn’t made any manipulation of Laudna in an intelligent way but almost brute forced it in such a way ofc she’s gotta go
I had to look up the word flanderized so now I learned something 😊.
I'd love for them to do visuals and update HP during combat, I dont think it would be wildly difficult since they had it for the beginning chunk of C2 and they were doing that live.
Yeah, I remember that from c2. Nice to have, fun to watch and seems to be doable
Ofc campaigns are mostly filler. So is life. Enjoy the filler in CR, D20 and in life. Skipping to moments or milestones or "plot" means you miss out on a lot.
Yeah, I hate the actual play parts of the game are being referred to as filler. Filler is a scripted fiction notion.
I hear each of your concerns but I dearly wish there was some editing done. Keep the whole show but trim down the dead time. Watching Ashley take 5 minutes to take a single turn at points is maddening for a professional D&D player who works for critical role full-time now.
Matt at one point relayed what his original plans for Lucien were, apparently he was supposed to be a sort-of body snatcher spirit looking for his original body (I.e. Molymauk) taking over various NPCs and PCs, not unlike Orin in bg3.
Yes i remember hearing that in the campaign wrap up i think.
I have a very odd theory that could be very troubling if it turns out to be true (again, very odd theory and could be reading into it all way to much). What if Ludinus and The Raven Queen (the mortal woman who ascended) have a deeper relationship than appears. What if they knew each other in life (Age of Arcanum) and have been working towards some grand plan of erasing the gods for hundreds of years. She would have essentially acted as a "spy on the inside", as a god among other gods.
Could be cool, especially if something like they were going to let their research end until she ascended and he forgot and was left with nothing but the work and blank where she was.
I've been hoping the Raven Queen is part of an long-con inside job. There's some weak evidence for and against it. I think it is unlikely, but after the events of the solstice my tinfoil hat has been firmly attached.
That would be a fun twist. However, It would mean The Raven Queen was in on Ludinus capturing Vax in his trap where he exists in uninterrupted torment... so that part is a theory breaker for me. She wouldn't do that to her Champion.
@@BaronVonDex Yeah, that's the one thing that I kept going back to as well. Like I said, very odd theory 🤣😁
I have a similar theory, only mine is that Ludi and RQ dated in the past. However Ludi was a toxic bf towards RQ so she ascended to godhood and left his ass. Ludi got pissed and decided that if he can't have her then no one can. It's also why he used Vax as a divine component for the mallus key because he was jealous.
But that's just my theory.
On the Imogen Main Character Syndrome thing, that seems more on Matt than Laura. On an episode of 4 Sided Dive Laura basically said she told Matt that Imogen had nightmares of a storm and he responded with "by the way, your storm is red." So yeah Laura didn't know she was connected to Ruidus that was all Matt.
This is from the same 4SD where Tal said the Party is like a bunch of NPC's as well.
It's called 4-Sided Dive: Party of NPCs if anyone would like to go watch it.
I have this problem in my own campaign. 2 of my PCs have a very clear drive and goal, my other 3 are literally just here to explore and have fun… One of the PCs with a goal has told me he feels like the main character, and I told him he’s kinda right only because he has an actionable goal.
Delilah reminds me a bit of Handsome Jack from the Borderlands series. For those that know the game, we're currently in the Tales from the Borderlands part of the story. Spoilers for those that haven't played:
For those that don't, Jack dies in the second game, only to reappear as a digital ghost in the heads of one of the protagonists. Over the course of Tales, he starts trying to influence and control Rhys, eventually attempting to take him over towards the end.
I really enjoy the recap clips to cut to the core and get the good juice of the storylines not only your and fraudonthetele recaps but Supergeekmike has a great critical role demystified series that shows lessons you can bring into your home game.
Since this is a video about Opinions(tm) I'll add mine to the pile :) Loved this, very entertaining! :D Love hearing your takes on this stuff.
(Edna Mole voice) NO EDITS! :p
I would be really sad if they started editing like other shows do, it's one of the things I love most about them, I'd hate if they cut out "filler" or started having different camera angles, because I love that we get to see all of the nonsense around the table, the crosstalk and the reverse math, Sam playing with plastic feet, Laura hearing something funny and losing it during someone else's turn, all of it. When shows focus the camera on one or two people at a time we miss other players' reactions, and seeing the whole table is just more fun. [/long winded]
I love how surprised Marisha and Laura were by Imodna, it really did feel like it happen organically, since neither of them planned for the characters to be a Thing(tm) and it's just such a fun example of characters kind of having their own ideas once you start playing them.
Caduceus > Molly. There I said it. I thought Molly was great, and I'm sad we didn't really get to see the whole character that had been created, or see them really get to know the whole party better, but honestly? I just like Cad better. When I think of M9, Cad is the character I miss most, and I wish we'd gotten to spend more time on his story, it felt like a lot of it got a bit squashed. (If he's not in the reunion show I will be kind of gutted.)
Veth is SUCH an interesting character, I was honestly a little surprised when she didn't leave? There was a point where it started to feel like she REALLY didn't want to be there, though it also made total sense that she stayed, too.
Delilah WAS a fun villain, now she's just kind of... watered down? It feels like she's been de-fanged entirely. She SHOULD be a threat, they SHOULD be afraid of her, Whitestone was right to have guards lined up at the mere chance she might return, but now she's just a slightly annoying voice in Laudna's head? It feels weird.
YES, the DISTANCE THING! If you don't want to use distances, don't have a grid on the map. If you do (and Matt clearly does use it for his own monsters) then the players get to use it too. It's bugged me since C1.
Robbie was brilliant and I wish he could have stayed.
I gotta be honest i have never understood the connection some people think there is between Laudna & Ashton.
They're friends sure but it's really not that deep.
As for Imogen & Laudna, all i have to say is, has no one heard of Friends to Lovers?? Their story is almost a textbook example of the trope.
If they'd start to edit, it would lose the main reason I'm interested. Sure the story is great but the main thing I enjoy is their banter, their little fun character moments, etc. It's also why I don't find D20 that enjoyable. It's great for those who prefer edited shows, that there's a lot of recaps on RUclips, great work. But it's one way how different shows are different and work for different viewers.
Hard agree on Delilah. She was fantastic, one of CRs best villains. But let the woman rest.
I wasn't a fan of Mollymauk, so his death didn't hit me like it did the rest of the fandom. I was very interested in what character would be introduced to fill the seat. Then when we got Caduceus I just felt like he was a reskin of Matt's NPC, Pumat Sol, even down to the voice and energy level he gave him. You even see a shift in the way Matt portrays Pumat Sol from the first time to the next time they meet, Pumat's energy level is increased and his speech pattern is as well. I'm not saying that Cad didn't become his own character and have great moments. But I just feel like the similarities were too difficult to overlook. Trust me, I know it's an unpopular opinion, I know. But when a character has been introduced that is absolutely amazing, and has such a positive reaction from everyone, and then a very similar one appears its very easy for the magic to just gets sapped away, and create a disinterest.
My hot take: If you aren't going to have a live show, actually do something that justifies pre-recording it. Have multiple camera angles like D20, make small cuts when nothing is happening, add visuals and overlays to give the audiance info. Track stuff like HP, spell slots, conditions, etc and give us some visuals during combat so we can keep up. Give us more camera angles on the map and minis! Technically, you can do a lot of these things LIVE there are tons of live productions that use multiple cameras and do live overlays. But if you aren't even going to do the show live anymore, then there's really no excuse for not taking that time to improve the production quality.
Also: Why is Matt all by himself? There are 7 players, they have a whole crew, and there's still nobody who's job it is to look stuff up for Matt? To make sure he has all the minis he needs? To keep track of hit points for him?
My hot take: Matt needs to be more consistent when ruling crits outside of combat. When performing a skill check a player will roll a nat 20 and the whole cast gets excited, but then Matt chimes in with “For a total of…?”, really deflating the moment. All the while any nat 1 is an auto-fail no matter what, regardless of the modifiers that could turn the failure into a success. It’s just an inconsistency that weighs against fun.
To be fair. A 1+... lets say 5 proficency, and max modifier if 5. Is a 15. And mat knows thats not gunna meet a DC
@@restlessreks9916 Exactly, unless we are talking about a rogue with expertise, it likely isn't gonna matter more often than not.
Could it be that sometimes the DC to succeed is a 25, so that's why the crit isn't an auto success?
Without going through the literal thousand+ hours of Matt DMing to pull actual episodes and time stamps I can only say that there have definitely been moments (stealth checks being the most clear offender) where someone has commented that with all their bonuses it adds up to x and Matt replied "It's still a one." I have very high confidence in this because my Tism screams in my brain when it happens, and that shit is memorable.
This is definitely a pet peeve of mine as well
Yeah, Ludinus is NOT doing the right thing. IF Ludinus is being transparent, he's a hypocrite, putting his faith in Predathos, a thing that no one really understands (like it's a God). There's also no guarantee it would stop at just eating the Gods, it may come for Exandria next.
Not to mention the very likely possibility that Ludinus is not being transparent and has something crazy up his sleeve to take ultimate power for himself and essentially (or literally) become a God.
So Bells Hells are in the right because,
1. You can't trust Ludinus' intentions
2. Ludinus is killing innocent people in pursuit of his insane plan.
3. You can't trust Predathos to stop at the Gods.
As much as I loved Robbie, I think he was only there as a buffer when Travis had not yet introduced his main character.
I really learned to like him after a while, and it did take a while. I'd be happy to see him back, even with another toon.
As much as everyone keeps saying they would like to see him at the game more... I feel like there has to be some specific reason that he hasn't returned yet. Though it does make it hard to have guest characters with him there... I still would like to see it more.
I think another reason he may not have been a permanent addition is simply because he couldn’t. We all remember how Ashley was very touch and go due to her acting career so it just might’ve been that Robbie couldn’t stay longer
I am a Campaign 3 baby, I only started watching about a year and a half ago. I dove in when Campaign 3 was still pretty fresh. I absolutely loved Dorian. I had no idea Robbie wasn't a permanent cast member and I was sad to see him go. I think the true tragedy here is he hasn't returned in any capacity. Campaign 3 hasn't had many guests in comparison to other Campaigns so far but thats cause they're around longer and not just 2 episodes. Dorian should of taken a role similar to Zahra and Kashaw in Campaign 1 where they're constantly retuning. Dorian helped start all this, he better be there to end it
I think CR would do well with having the game streamed "live" with no edits as usual AND an edited down version on RUclips with cuts and stuff, a la Dimension 20.
Though they may feel it would clutter up their feed too much.
Haha loved this video 😁❤️ My hot take is still that a few campaign arcs with more personal arcs is more enjoyable than one big arc. Definitely also agree with previous commentors about the Nat 1/Nat 20 Skill Check discrepancy.
Hard agree on all of this.
Hot Take
This video deserves more likes👍
Hot take - Some of the best moments have come from shopping episodes
Regarding the Dynamics section:
In some RPGs, making the characters together makes perfect sense, because the party is likely one that is assembled by an external force (commanding officer, archbishop, merchant patron, etc.) and were assembled specifically for a range of skills and talents, so there won't be a whole lot of overlap there. That kind of cohesion in a classic D&D campaign (and so far all three CR campaigns) would definitely kill some of the immersion for me, since most parties do simply "meet in a tavern", and unless some god or cosmic force kismets them, there's no reason for there not to be overlap.
I have missed these videos so much! And I love to learn more about people's unpopular opinions!
I share your perspective in most of them, and of course, I would love to bring one of my own:
I feel like C3 happening during rhe hard times surrounding TTRPG news this year (with Hasbro being pure assholes, pardon my French) has affected the way some of us perceive the story. We always knew that CR would eventually develop their own game, but the threat of Hasbro looming over Exandria makes it feel like CR is hurrying... and that stuff that maybe wouldn't happen in C3 is happening in a certain way to prepare the terrain for Daggerheart. And if Predathos gets free and starts eating the gods, for example, there will be people (myself included) that won't be able to fully see it as a consequence of BH and their enemies' actions, but as Matt's hand being forced to make sure their company won't be at risk because of Hasbro ever again.
I don't know, maybe I'm just overthinking it. Do you have your own thoughts about this?
I agree. Definitely feels rushed somehow. To be fair, i may be off here because Istopped watching full episodes around episode 13 because it felt really slow to me. It doesn't feel like the players are driving the story forward, it feels like its just happening around them. If the main villains are driving it forward its not being shown to us. I feel like this campaign will end on a huge shake up which is hopefully when I hop back in.
@@boxlflox9094 Yeah, like... I don't mind some pacing for efficiency, but in less than a year so much has happened that I have developed trust issues XD I no longer know if something is happening because it was supposed to happen or because it was the more convenient thing given the real-world circumstances 😅
DEFINITELY agree that Robbie shoulda been a permanent party member. I love the hell out of him, and I wait for his return. And I'm with you on the Slow Burn Karlach train.
Taking a lil of the heat off Orion (not defending him at all!) but the biggest reason I'd skip the first 20 something episodes of C1 is simply because the tech and setup was rough.
Sound mix was terrible at times and production wise it just wasnt up to quality yet. Made parts very difficult to watch (or in some cases, more difficult to watch).
If I was watching that live at original release, I probably wouldnt have continued to watch. But going back after seeing what they became? Yeah. That was worth it.
I can understand Keyleth lasting mourning for Vex. I lost my grandfather about 20 years ago now, he was really important for me, growing up, I'm still not over his death. Some people just don't process death and mourning the same way that others (and I do want to see Keyleth become really pissed off and trash some ruby vangard pliz)
My hot takes regarding ships would be I was a Widojest shipper, I love me a broody sad boi with a ray of sunshine, and I still kinda think they would have been better together. I kinda agree with the Imogen and Laudna remaining friends, and I initially shipped Imogen and Dorian together. That said I'm not disappointed with any of the relationships we've had though. This might be a super hot take but if anyone can tell a better love story than Tolkien's Beren and Luthien, I firmly believe it is Liam and Laura, they would create the most epic love story of all time.
Non relationship hot takes, I agree with the Mollymauk thing, the best thing he did was die. He was a poorly developed character and Taliesin didn't seem to have a very good grasp on him. Caduceus was a much better character. Scanlan Shorthalt and Loquatius Seelie are the only Sam characters I have liked, the others have annoyed me to no end. I love the cupcake moment, but the most underrated moment in that episode was Beau's speech about leaving, one of the best character moments of CR history, and not enough people talk about it. Finally Critical Role became Critical Role when Liam made the choice to have Vax kiss Keyleth. Everything before that point they were messing around and having fun, and Liam made a decision that pushed the entire group out of their comfort zone, and every deep RP and character moment since has been ripple effects of that, and it is what makes CR different than other liveplays.
I totally agree with you about the cast planning in between games, I played a campaign where the DM told us not to talk about anything when we weren't at the table and much like CR we would spend time in game planning and then not following the plan (it's not that fun)
Hot take: If anyone thinks about any part of CR is "filler", they have completely misunderstood the entire point of CR.
I feel like Critical Role should either be completely live (like it used to be) or it needs to be more thoroughly edited. I am not a fan of the middle ground they have struck. The show can absolutely be edited and a MUCH stronger product overall.
Imogen is the main character and it kind of sucks because it is pretty obvious when Imogen's story is over, so too will the campaigns. I do not feel like we have been able to delve as deeply into every character's overall narrative as well as we had done in the past. This campaign, sadly, feels like it was designed to be easily convertible into a TV show. I am sure it will be really rad too (especially compared to the way they have had to string shorter adventures together in the current show) but.... It leaves me wanting for something different, while watching the "original source material" (i.e. the actual play). I hope Matt (or whoever DMs the next campaign) does a better job of balancing the various characters.
The visuals are something that makes me roll my eyes because it is all pre-recorded now. It is really easy to slot those visuals into the video in post. Given the way Daggerheart was developed, I feel like the visuals will come back for that game, as so much of it is short, pithy and card based (which will be easy to throw up on screen).
Robbie should have been added to the cast. He brought a vibrancy to the table that I think is lacking since he left. Having said that, 8 people is way too many, especially for an actual play. Matt seems to have difficulty balancing the narrative needs of 7, let alone 8 (or 9 when a guest shows up).
For the next campaign... I kind of want them to explore the idea of having a couple of characters break away for an arc, so we can have a smaller group at the table. Like go back to the 5 or 6 episode story arc; every arc, 2 characters leave to go handle something (often, setting up a future arc). That way, the table only has 5 or 6 characters for every arc, which, IMO, would make for a more watchable product (that's my hot take)
It's a lot of episodes BUT everywhere you can watch/listen lets you adjust the speed at which you do so. Increasing by 75% on YT is still listenable without being too Chipmunk-y and it really makes a huge difference over the course of a campaign.
My Hot Take: I love Matt and his style.... but he asks for too many checks sometimes, especially when it's low stakes and a character is trying to do something they specialize in. Maybe he doubles the outcome as a barometer for how lucky they are with it overall but it feels like (especially in C3) there's been a lot of rolling for things that don't actually need it.
With C1, I gotta say, one of the best bits early on was the whole flying carpet and Vex. The caught on air example of Will Wheaton rolling so many Nat 1s and was excited that he got a 2 or 3 was brilliant!
I don’t think CR has filler, I think that’s just the format, ya know? That doesn’t mean watching full episodes is the only way to consume the show, but I just think it will not be CR if it’s edited to make it less rambley and stuff.
Also if people complain about the Imogen focus. MN went on a whole pirate arc for Fjord.
Definitely agree it would be great for them to develop characters together in a session zero. I wonder if part of the reason why I'm struggling to enjoy campaign 3 as much is because all of the characters are so different and unique that it doesn't feel as cohesive a party to me.
I definitely miss the onscreen visuals we used to have. Since it's now filmed ahead of schedule I do think they could do a bit more post-production stuff. I think at minimum there should be an inclusion of trigger warnings, but health counters in battles would also be incredibly useful.
Yep definitely agree that Robbie felt like a natural permanent addition to the group right from session 1, and I was really hoping he'd be back with them by now. I definitely felt like he balanced the group well in terms of bringing a more level head while also joining in with the chaos at times. They certainly still seem to use him a lot in their merch so I wonder if they're preparing for him to permanently join the lineup in C4, and Travis or Sam may take a backseat to focus on other areas of the company.
This was a fun vid! Thanks for sharing it. Also love the luboffin coloured tie-dye shirt. Hope you've been keeping well and feel more relaxed now you're not making the recaps x
my two hot takes about c3 are:
- i know matt has said multiple times at this point that it has always been a dream of his to bring back characters from past campaigns as npcs and all that but all the callbacks we had ended up making me like this campaign less, i know it all served a purpose in game and even outside to promote the cartoon but idk it just felt like nostalgia bait that eventually shoved bell's hells to the side line and feels like we're missing the chance to see more personal stories with these great characters because we're doing a world-ending event and we have to accomodate for all these powerful "npcs" that exist in the world
- also the whole should gods exist plot lost me completely because it feels like endless repetition that everytime it seems they've reached a conclusion they just circle back to it and I understand is a difficult question and all but as someone watching a show it just got really boring to watch after some point, it's supposed to be an interesting philosophical question but just completely lost all the meaning for me after so much repetition (it's the whole reason i'm on a break from c3 cuz i couldn't sit through another redundant "oh but the gods..." discussion, like please just move the plot along)
anyway, great vid! thanks for letting me vent out my frustrations XD
OKAY YES the vax/keyleth thing, I 100% agree. Esp. because in the campaign 1 wrap-up Marisha did specifically say that she envisioned Keyleth moving on after some years of grieving for Vax. It's one of the few ways that I wish Matt had changed his portrayal of Keyleth.
re: Imodna, yes platonic relationships are great. Most character relationships on CR are platonic friendships so there really isn't a derth of that portrayal. So what is the problem here? I do understand ppl wanting to see a qpr on the show.
1000% agree on C1. The underdark / elderbrain battle was great! Orion was mostly annoying and Felicia day was really good as Lyra.
I think for the clips, that yes an edited down version will give you a perfectly fine way to experience it. (Especially if you’re catching up etc.) but their is stuff you will miss that might have been a best moment for you or things you would have noticed that the clipper didn’t find important enough. I know when I watch clips/edited versions of episodes there is stuff I think they miss out on and stuff I didn’t even notice in the clips.
Hot take. I would love to see a dice camera. Like Acquisitions Inc used to have. On each player and Matt.
I agree with your example about players asking if the enemy is within 60 ft. If you are going to be a stickler where the spell fizzles out exactly at 60 ft and not an inch further, then in-world the characters would have an innate sense for judging exact distances. If you want the characters to be unsure if they can reach or not, then you should make the boundary fuzzy by for example rolling to see if they are in range so sometimes they succeed and sometimes they fail. Either one of those strategies is fine, but mixing together firm and fuzzy boundaries just drags things out at the table without actually adding anything fun.
If the take about campaigns being mostly filler is meant in its most literal context: meaning content that doesn’t provide substantial value to the overall plot or story, then yeah I guess I can agree. An episode that’s 4 hours can typically be recapped in a couple minutes. But if they’re meaning filler in the way that most people mean it in that it’s content you can typically skip, I just plainly disagree. While I suppose you COULD skip over some of that stuff when you’re going to rewatch, I love having all that stuff included. Being with the characters almost every moment, even in some of the mundane parts, really allows me to get a grasp of who that character is, how their mind works, how they relate to the rest of the party members, how they manage to use their abilities, etc etc etc. It’s what makes the characters real and relatable to me. Especially when I’m watching live. If I’m rewatching and have already seen an arc, I may skip over parts where *SPOILER WARNING FOR C3* they’re crawling through a cave so I can get to the part where Ashton and Fearne dive into the lava pit to retrieve the shard. That’s because I understand who these characters are already. But when I’m watching those moments live, I’m hanging on EVERY word and action, even in the lulls. Shopping episodes for example are some of my favorite! Getting a taste for the kinds of goods or clothes they are interested in can say a lot about the characters, or it can flesh out the world Matt has built by giving us an idea of what kind of foods and clothes and wares are being sold within this culture. Maybe that’s just because I love all the players and love all their characters so it makes them inherently interesting to me, but I just love having all that “filler” there too. Not content to just be ripped out of the box and tossed aside.
I also really wished Robbie stayed as a permanent member, but based on what we know now about plans to mix things up as well as pass on the torch when the time comes, having Robbie be apart of a secondary group of characters that have connections to larger plots (Dorian to BHs as well as Deni$e, Opal and the spider queen, the fantasy mob) as well as building up a secondary cast can allow viewers to become more familier with new cast members incase they ever switch of the main campaign.
I feel like the main campaigns will stick with the main cast for a long while, but perhaps more EXUs will include secondary stories that take place around the same time as the main campaign and the two could mix. Having a second cast could be a lot of fun.
12:53 I disagree. Info accessibility will make all of CR's mistakes more apparent. When they used to track HP bars onscreen early C2, the HP bar diverged from what they players recorded fairly frequently. Whenever they remark audibly what their HP were, comparing it to the HP texts can be risky. This is followed by a fair number of criticizing comments. A few have the gall to suggest it was actual attempts at cheating. I rather it not being accessible to so people can't get so caught up with the discrepancies.
I absolutely agree. What next, health bars in movies?
I think they can get around this now since they prerecord eveything. When they were doing it live mistakes were common, but now they can do it in post. This won't eliminate every mistake, but should eliminate most. I do agree it will take away some imersion to see the health trickle down, but also in this medium we are missing a visual element to indicate how hurt someone is. I can sorta see it both ways.
Remember what Matt and the rest of the cast said early on in the beginnings and still say to the best of their abilities to this day. They want to keep this show as close as they can to just a bunch of friends playing dnd at home. Of course times have changed since the beginnings, something they never foresaw but maybe dreamed for. They are now a fully formed company with a staff of support and a state of the art set to play the game and a large amount of critters out there. Matt and the cast has stated on several occasions, ( with great appreciation ), even with all this nice stuff around we just want to sit with our friends and play a game of dnd. They enjoy just getting back to the basic root of what started it all. It is a day they can just release all of lifes stresses and for a few hours enjoy each others company with no holds bar. I feel in this new time they are doing a great job creating a company that can grow and also remembering where they came from, that has to be hard to balance and as an old critter I'm proud to be there with them. Remember to love each other.
My only real issue with Robbie being permanent is it doesn't really leave space for other guests. Aside from that, love him to death and only want to see more of Dorian.
Its Funny all 3 of Sam's characters (not counting Terry for this purpose) almost all had a very valid reason to leave the group.
PS - Nothing wrong with the amount of focus on Imogen's character, the larger story at hand just ended up being about Imogen's back story and there is nothing negative about that.
My hottest take is probably that I enjoy a lot of CR's other content more than the main campaigns. And I say that as someone who has been quite invested in C3 specifically for some time now, love at least 4 of the characters (about the same number as in previous campaigns) and usually watch the first broadcast (and sometimes a rerun as well). But I would be perfectly fine with no traditional C4 and more miniseries or multiple shorter campaigns.
I may also be unusual in that I've personally had a very positive experience with the fandom -- or rather those corners of it I quickly figured out were 'my people'. Probably helps to have low expectations and lots of prior experience with curating one's social media.
I didn't think a blue mans departure from his friends would make me so emotional🥹 I hope Robbie/Dorian join the group again soon!
@bloomwiththestars True, he honestly brought the group together better than Bertrand did 🤣😭
Agreed with more of these than I expected.
Biggest agreement is on RIP Molly (I adored Caduceus) and No More Delilah Please.
That being said, it's their game and I fully support their choices.
Glad to see your video pop up. ❤ Hope you are feeling good in things. Miss your recaps, mostly because I still feel lost with some things in CR. I will say that if we mean what hot take is a frustration, then for me it’s when an entire episode doesn’t seem to go anywhere. I know someone else said “fillers,” but I think we are talking about different things. If I get bored with a filler moment, like some shopping thing, then I can just skip ahead (I don’t watch live). But when it’s the entire 2-3 hours or a few times, seemingly the entire episode, then I don’t like that. Oh well…not a big deal. I can just not watch. LOL I just like the story and want to see them get moving ahead, and often it feels like they lost the plot themselves.
Totally agree about the metagaming. In combat it feels like they are each playing their own game, not playing together. They don't seem to know what the other characters are capable of doing and they don't have ideas about what the other players are likely to do. I believe knowing the ins-and-outs of party members from a tactical gameplay side is equally important and compelling as knowing them from the role-play side.
I'm with Ludinus. Cast off the shackles!
To the under darkarc part, I listened from the start when I went to catch up, and I don’t remember most of that arc. It was probably somewhere around the Briarwoods before I really got hooked, so I didn’t skip it, and I didn’t regret going through it, but I could have missed it. There’s reasons LVM started where it did, and not all of them involved he who apparently must not be named.
my hot take is that i hate when matt makes all nat 1's an automatic failure, and nat 20 is not an automatic success. they used to do it that way, prior to like halfway through this campaign, and it's bothered me since matt changed his mind.
8:16 I don’t think it’s so weird sometimes the love of your life passes away and although moving on can be good for some it’s not for everyone Kiki and Vax may just be those ones that have a love that lasts longer than death can keep you apart
In regards to Imogen having main character syndrome, I feel like there was a point where Matt tried to give Fearne the spotlight as well. She's also Ruidusborn, and her parents were an integral part of the story for a bit. It's just that Ashley seems to forget how connected to the plot she is, and so Matt just kinda stopped trying.
That's just method acting for head-empty Fearne.
Ashley is a national treasure and must be protected at all costs. That said, I just don't think she's up to the task of being a Main Character. To me, she's always come off as a 'just here for the fun of a good story' player, and that's perfectly fine. A good DM knows how to recognize that, and not hang too much on that player.
@Brion57042 I agree. Don't get it twisted: I love me some Ashley Johnson. I just think there was a point where Fearne was supposed to be just as important to the story as Imogen, but Ashley just wouldn't play her that way.
I dont realy know if that is a hot take but I sometimes think that the episodes are to long, espacialy when they keep planing for like two hours. I also think that the fights are ro long,but like you said its theire game and I still love Critical Role 😍
15:43 they actually mentione on 4 sided dive a few times that they have a text thread where they plan but they usually either forget or can't make a solid one by the time the session rolls around 😭
My hot take would be that the worst thing about Vax's death was that it didn't give Keyleth a chance to break up with him. I was never completely sold with them as a couple. I always felt that he was the first boyfriend that you learn to take chanecs on, but then you learn to move away from. And I kind of feel like Keyleth/Marisha knew it. Especially after the goldfish incident, there were moments when it felt like Keyleth/Marisha were chaffing in their interactions. There were literal eyerolls at times.
And it would make sense that she would have had to move on from him. He was too much of a yes man. A leader would need a SO who could call them out to their face and say "You're being ridiculous" instead of saying "No, we should not take on a green dragon right now, but if that's what you want, just say the word and I'll do it." A leader also would need someone with a bit of personal strength who could give them their support, but also their space. Vax looked to Keyleth for his happiness and purpose. She already was responsible for thousands of people. Did she really need a SO that needed her for his identity? And Vax was never her confidant. Who did Keyleth rely on to help her grow and give her the advice she really needed to hear? Percy, Grog, Kerr, and Sprig. Vax's whole bag of tricks is "You're perfect and you're wonderful!" That's what she needed at first, but she grew out of that really quick. She needed someone who could help her move forward.
I feel that if they were a real life couple, she would have eventually found the strength to say "I love you, and always will, but we are better as friends." But when he died, she was chained to a relationship that never had a resolution. You can see that in the marriage one-shot in just how awkward their relationship had become. So that would be my hot take.
First of all, your eye makeup is amazing. Secondly, great vid, loved this. Keep these coming.
I have a new hot take for the newest episode (C3E78). 3 out of the 6 present players spent the whole episode being "That guy", and 1 of the 3 that weren't being "That guy" still had a moment of "That guy" in them.
I see very little point in continuing watching anymore, because too big of a chunk of the characters take everything personal and are closer to becoming villains because they think the world is against them without any good reason.
To me Ludinus is very much a villain who's cause (or at least the cause he espouses in his rhetoric) is a just one, but his chosen means are not.
If anyone here is familiar with The Order of the Stick, I kinda get strong Redcloak vibes off of him: he's convinced himself this is a just cause and that his more despicable actions are unfortunate necessities, but even if he started with legitimately noble intentions, he's followed a very dark path that reflects his worst qualities much more.
My opinion on some of the hot takes and some of my own:
Imogen and Laudna - They absolutely should have stayed best friends. Sure representation is great, but I find it hard to say that they are good for queer representation, when CR has queer representation coming out their butt. None of Liam's longer campaign characters have been straight, neither have most of Taliesin's (I don't know about Percy, tbh), and that is just mentioning 2 of the players.
We've had plenty of queer representation, and while I would never argue against more queer representation, I would, in this case, not use it as an argument for the 2 characters to be together, cause there is enough representation that 1 more or less does not change anything.
Imogen being the main character - This is true too. They have been a bit better lately, but they even talked about on a 4-sided dive, that most of their characters feel like NPC's and Imogen is the only one that feels like a proper character. They mentioned: Ashton = Goon NPC. Orym = Queensguard NPC. Laudna = Creepy NPC. Fearne = Typical Fey weirdo NPC
Visuals like health etc - They tried this in campaign 2 early on. They had things pop up about tips, fun facts or stats. In combat (sometimes I think out of combat too) they had the health of the characters on screen, but whoever was editing it live couldn't keep up. If you watch the episode where Molly dies, the screen says he has health left when he falls unconscious and is subsequently killed despite the screen showing he has health. (I believe the mistake was them forgetting to subtract crimson rite damage)
They aren't consistent with their distance measurements - Okay, this one is driving me fucking insane! They play on a square grid, fine, but they still play the game as if they aren't on a square grid. Now what do I mean? On a square grid with how they are playing, going diagonally is still only moving 5ft. If you take 2 seconds to draw a 5ft circle, you would see that diagonal lines would allow for farther travel for the same movement than straight lines. Which is why the rule books basically say: If you play on a square grid, make circles into squares for consistency. Nope, we are using circles in CR. And then Matt brings out the ruler when distances are far enough, which then also is NOT consistent with a square grid.
In campaign 2 (spoilers for a scene close to the end) they at some point run from the Tomb Takers, and they do so by running off the map, which is fine, it happens. But the Mighty Nein are then off the maps before the Tomb Takers, and as a way to handle some character being on the map and others off, he says the characters off the map aren't placed at the correct distance, just in the correct direction of them running. All the minis were therefore too close together to represent the correct distances, so they wouldn't have to reach over the entire table.
Then Matt brings out the fucking ruler to figure out whether the Tomb Takers can hit the Mighty Nein with Eldritch Blast... Matt you fucking dingus, if they aren't placed correctly, you can't use a ruler, because you are too similarly to theater of the mind. Get your shit together!!!
Control your fucking distances people!!
Also, yes, Molly's death was literally the best thing he did for the Mighty Nein
Essek: I just don't get it.
Molly: It's true, there really wasn't that much going on with the character before he died. Though I do think things would have gone similarly in the end, just from a different direction.
Underdark: Don't skip this. It made sense to skip it in the animated series, but I liked it and thought it had some really cool stuff. There's not much point skipping it on your first watch.
Ludinus: He has some good points, but like many complex villains his answer to the problems is the wrong answer.
Dynamics: I sort of get the point here, but it makes sense to see how things work out when you don't intentionally make things "fit" before you start.
Imodna: They were fated to be together from the start and I'll fight anyone on this until my dying breath.
Filler: Well sure, it's D&D. There is a reason that Vox Machina is able to plow through the story so much faster. But this isn't a show like Naruto that just spends time wasting your time on purpose. It's actual play D&D. But sure, editing some of the hemming and hawing might make sense - but yeah, the format makes editing hard since they don't change camera angles.
Kiki & Vax: Unhealthy? Yes. Unrealistic? No. I can understand where she's at - but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be better for her to move on.
Veth: Yeeeah...
Imogen: I think this is sort of true, but it's not something Laura is doing. We also get a lot of Ashton though!
Delilah: I love her, keep it coming.
Visuals: Please oh PLEASE!
Party name: I don't mind them naming the group after Bertrand, but the name itself I do NOT like. "Bells Hells" is just a weird confusing name that always sounds like a mistake.
Metagaming: Eh, I don't think it's an issue to meta a little. I think there are a lot of situations that they make the game take too long because they're trying so hard to avoid meta.
Robbie: I could take him or leave him.
Hot Take: Campaign 3 is heavily railroaded, as a direct reaction to how Campaign 2 was a sprawling disorganised spaghetti pile of plot threads that resolved all of it's major arcs well before the actual ending.
I'm not with Ludinus, but if I lived in this world I would absolutly be against the gods. Even if they were absolutely benevolent, they would hold an undo amount of power over mortal's lives that I would feel trapped in their game. What I want from the story is that ludinus is fanatical in his beliefs and also aware of how predathos could backfire. I don't want him to have an "oh no" where Predathos immediately betrays him or subjugate him. I also don't want him to be so evil that he will ignore an obvious example of him or predathos replacing the gods.
I guess I need to rewatch the UnderdArc of campaign 1. I genuinely don't remember Orion being as bad as his reputation suggests until the Granny Grinder incident (which, if memory serves, you will see if you follow the "skip directly to the Briarwood arc" advice). Like, I'm not saying he was a model player, but he didn't stick out as much more problematic than the rest until he buzz-sawed down a defenseless foe. And even then, at the time, I read his refusal to acknowledge that that might've been wrong as deliberately playing up a character flaw to have a story arc about. Which was maybe more charitable than was warranted, but my point is that, prior to that he really didn't seem to me to be the mance to table and the despoiler of fun that he's often made out to be.
(And this is ignoring whatever he's done away from the table mostly because I have no reliable sources on that so I'm not informed enough to meaningfully comment on it.)
Hell, based on what I remember, I'd be more inclined to skip the UnderdArc to bypass the worst of *Scanlan*.
8:46 well normally I’d agree with this technically mentally for her it’s been 3 years because Druid magic and being a half-elf. Completely understandable and makes a lot of sense why Keyleth wouldn’t move on, the traumatic loss of her lover in what felt like only a few years ago is definitely fresh on her mind. Doesn’t help that Vax sends her a bloody Raven every so often ya know the symbol of the goddess he serves that keeps the two from ever reuniting. So yeah I think it’s a bit understandable.
I agree that the show could probably benefit from some structural changes, especially with it no longer being live...they're recording and have been for a long while now, they can get away with switching some things up! (Including editing!) I know quite a few folks who've utilized the work of the many CR clip RUclipsrs as a means to catch up on prior campaigns (those who don't have the patience for watching them all, even at 2x speed). I get that the first part of C1 is hard to watch, for various reasons...that being said, there's alot there that carries forwards into the rest of the campaign that is important for later context that you can't get otherwise.
Is the whole Vax'Leth situation healthy? No, of course not. Does it make sense based on who those characters are and what they've gone through? I think so. Tragedy never gets wrapped up nicely in a neat, tidy manner, even after 30 years. The whole situation is unbelievably sad and there are people who can go their whole lives without being able to move on, no matter how much help they might get from loved ones or professionals. As far as Delilah perpetually coming back? Gee...she was a necromancer who swore her soul to the service of The Whispered One, The Undying King, a lich-lord who, despite being banished from the Material Plane, did still succeed in making himself a god. So, yeah...funny how that works, innit? It's kind of implied in the deal 🙂
Personally, I don't see how any of the M9 would've survived to the end of C2 without Caduceus...Molly's death had such a profound effect on the rest of the group that it changed the whole rest of the game going forwards, I feel like they needed that experience to have perspective and clarity needed to win when Lucien finally came back around as the BBEG. As for Essek...I don't recall exactly how Matt described him initially, I feel like alot of the 'hotboi' perceptions were intuited/inferred by the cast and then transferred vicariously amongst some portion of the Critters, to the point that it 'became' canon.
As for C3...personally, I'll reserve judgment until it's finished and wrapped up. Otherwise, love this video and looking forwards to seeing more like it...Keep up the good work Luna 🙂
CR is sooo different from short from actual plays like D20 and I love it for its differences and the time it takes. It’s also great when they do shorter stories but they are king of long term where they can build the party organically, not edit out the messy bits
...Okay, one more Hot Take: Campaign 3 should have ended when they assaulted the crater, rather than Ludinus pulling an "I was manipulating you the whole time!" they should have been able to defeat him there. Coming up to that, it very much felt to me like they were pushing to a conclusion, it felt like this was the final showdown. And if the campaign continued with other stuff after beating him that would be fine. But I feel like ever since, they've been on this weird side-quest streak like you get in a video game where the BBEGs big plot will just wait on hold for you as long as you're resolving side plots. The ongoing tension of this world-ending cataclysm that's about to be unleashed sort of spoils a lot of the more character-driven stuff they have been doing since then. If that arc had simply ended, it would feel a lot different. I was honest to got completely taken by surprise when the campaign didn't end there, I figured they were going for a shorter more succinct and direct story and I was okay with that. Now they just seem a bit lost.
13:01 not sure which champaign it was, but didn't they have a live/updating health bar? They still have a little stat chart, but not during battles. More visuals please!
Personally on the fact of metagaming in combat:
I think its fine to a degree, like for strategy and planning. When you have a combat that last for longer than a few minutes, then it really becomes "how can we get them off ghe board the fastest way possible before it gets too dicey". Roleplaying wise: mostly no but eith fighting a tough enemy, im fine with it personally
I honestly disagree with most of the hot takes but eh🤷
I just also needed to express how much I love the glittery hair and eye makeup on Tal in the fish market clip, It accentuates his slow turn to Ashley after her comment... and it's also just hot ( sorry not sorry😂)
Love the content your uploading. Keep it up!
This was a very good video. Thank you. It will generate some discussions in my house.
Cad > Molly
Veth should have left Mighty Nein
Robbie was amazing on Candela...and overstayed his time on C3
My own hot take: Respectfully, the cast should lean further in to encouraging their fans to develop parasocial relationships with the cast (and they should milk that for all cash they can).
I feel like the distance thing isn't even meta gaming. If you're trained to do things within specific distances, you're also trained to gauge those distances. Or else why have the the range listed on thr spell or ability at all
I agree on the editing take. We don't need to see folks do math. This campaign has had too many 4.5+ hour episodes.
There's 5e character sheets for all of the baldurs gate 3 origin characters (including our best girl) in the game files if you want to use one as an npc or like a bg3 themed one-shot for new ttrpg'ers
My hot take kind of goes along with the first one. Molly's death made Campaign 2 watchable, but it's still only meh until after Oban dies. The entire first 2/3 of campaign two is a meandering mess that has no impact on anything. I don't hate it, but I'm so much more invested in the Bells Hells, starting from episode 1, than I ever was in Mightly Nein until after they defeated Oban.
DO NOT SKIP the first episodes of campaign 1. There is a charm to the early episodes, plus SO much is introduced there. Don't start with campaign 2, definitely don't start with campaign 3 or ExU. Start with campaign 1 episode 1.
"You can romance your friends in a platonic way." See the Critical Role cast.
If you're watching Critical Role for story, you're missing half the show. It's about watching these friends hang out as much as it is watching them tell an interesting story. So yes, you could cut out a lot from the show and keep the story the same. But you would lose so much of what makes the show special.
Imogen isn't the main character any more than Percy was the main character in campaign 1.
Delilah is at risk of becoming the Joker of Critical Role. The whole thing of the villain living in a hero's head is reminiscent of Batman: Arkham Knight. Laudna is such a great character, and having her be stuck with Delilah made for great story elements. But when she died and BH went in to fight Delilah to bring her back, that should have been it. I wish that the next episode after that fight was Marisha alone at the table, giving her a chance to fight Delilah and take her power for herself, putting an end to Delilah forever.
I miss the stats from Alpha. And because the shows are edited, there's no reason why they can't put that up on screen.
I like Bells Hells, but there were some suggestions early on that I liked better. "Sweet TrouBell".
I hate people who complain about metagaming. It doesn't matter. We don't see every second of their team's interactions, so it's entirely possible that information is shared outside of what we see. Lighten up and just enjoy the story.
I agree that Robbie would have made a great permanent addition to the cast. So would Wil, Mary, Felicia, Will, Khari, Anjili, Amiee, Aabria, Erika, Mica, Ashly, Joe, Jason, Darin, Sumalee, Jon, Deborah, Utkarsh, Emily, Christian, Chris (Perkins, not Hardwick), Mark, and all the other guests that have been on their one shots. They just have a great line up of friends and they are so welcoming.
Opinions are like buttholes, but I absolutely disagree with you on many things
First of all, any single episode from campaign 2 is better than campaign 3 has been so far
Second, I started on campaign 2 and never watched campaign 1. At this point, watching the animated series is probably a better idea. People should start whenever they want
Third, this show has waaaay too big of a budget to be just about friends fucking around and not about the plot. Again, watch the animated series for an example.
@@moonlight2870 I think those who started with campaign 2 have had the hardest time adapting to the changes CR have made. You get used to the style of storytelling campaign 2 had, and that makes it hard to transition to something else, either 1 or 3. Campaign 2 is very different from both in that they didn't have any overarching arcs until the final part with Lucian. They just meandered around for the first 80-90 episodes. Uk'atoha never felt like he was a present threat, and Oban was more of a personal threat like the Biarwoods than a threat to the world. And everything else up to Lucian was just random stuff.
If you like that style of storytelling, that's fine. But that's not how they normally do things. Campaign 1 had very clear goals at every step of the way - defeating the Briarwoods, the Chroma Conclave, and then the ultimate BBEG. There are only maybe 20 episodes in the whole series that weren't part of an overarching story. And campaign 3 has been laser focused on the same story since episode 1.
I get that it's different. I had a hard time accepting campaign 2 coming off of campaign 1. Honestly I still am ambivalent about most of campaign 2, but it grew on me. And that made it easier to get into campaign 3 and all the differences it has. I think if you drop your expectations, stop comparing it to campaign 2, you might like it better.
As for watching the animated series instead of campaign 1, you can. But you miss SO much. Plot points that they completely skip, iconic moments that don't have the same impact because you aren't seeing how the dice played out, how the players reacted. Sure, it was cool to see Grog slice Kevdak in half. But you didn't see that Travis made a reckless attack (so rolled with advantage) and got a nat 1 and a nat 20. You didn't see the players erupt in celebration.
And that's what I mean about the story only being half the show. TLoVM is great. It's a great story, and they did an amazing job translating the events of the game to animation. But there's so much you lose in that translation. Things that you can only get from seeing a group of friends sitting at a table rolling dice. You can't watch the players' growing horror as they realize the meaning of the Sun Tree. You don't get the spontaneity of watching these iconic lines being created right there on the spot. Caduceus' speech to Trent at the dinner is so much more epic seeing it as it comes from Taliesin's head in the moment, rather than reading it from a script. Sure TLoVM had so many of the iconic lines, but there was that energy of spontaneity missing. You don't see Laura reacting to Vex's death.
Story will always be important, but the experience of watching these friends crafting that story, and reacting to it in the moment, is what makes the show special.
I feel like CR touched on the lesbian relationship nicely with Beau and Yasha, but long term platonic relationships have been in short supply. We got it a little bit for Caleb and Nott in Season 2, and for Grog and Pike in Season 1, and they were well received. But both had little screen time compared to the more romantic plot lines and I hope we could have a more developed long term friendship in the future. A bit closer to the Greek love of philia rather than eros.
Hot Take- Mollymauk should have get way more credit for uniting the Mighty Nein and Bertram Bell almost seems like a formulated version to try and recreate that unifying moment for Bell's Hells.
I didn't like Bell's Hells name. But it could make a great tattoo (tshirt) Ghost ship art please. If they wanted to do this, I much preferred Marisha's Bell's Hellions but would have liked something without Bell in it... at the time I thought of bunch of different names. I also didn't want Laudna Imogen, I was honestly shipping Laudna and Ashton and honestly think it would do a lot for Ashton's character... once the relationship comes out, I was also hoping that Ashton would go utter immature brat for a couple of episode which would make him highly hated but would be very real for what I consider Ashton's character to be. PS: you made the vid about not wanting to do recap, this is much better for you I think BUT I also think the Recap was the wrong direction you started going. I found your y-tube because I was interested in conspiracy theories, and it kinda felt the recaps were done to help establish why conspiracies were happening. I think you would have been very unique and relevant if you stuck with theories even if the vids became short. There's still a lot out there (4-sided dice always gets my conspiracy blood roiling). Anyhow love seeing you and your take on stuff.