I'd love an actual rank system for competitive; right now I don't really have a way to measure improvement besides KD when I can max my comp rank by doing 99999 freelance matches
They also changed the matchmaking it seems this season i have like double the kd even tho i improved i should only have a slight kd increase if it was as sweaty as last season so comp just feels useless
Dedicated servers and a real ranked PvP system. This has always been the broad answer to the matchmaking debate from what I can gather from both sides. That way, the pub playlist can be a laid back Wild West. Does that mean ranked is locked loadouts with heavy exotic restrictions? Maybe. Does that mean ranked is just trials minus the loot? Maybe. I think the foundation needs settled before we figure out bells and window dressing.
I definitely agree with a proper ranked playlist keeping all of the sweaty players in one spot much better than a flawless pool for example. I was HOOKED to getting level 50 in every single Halo 3 playlist.
I am a casual that just only plays pvp. This weekend was a blessing for me, I went flawless 4x and got my guilded flawless first week. As a kid, and a casual this is an achievement for me. I don't have a great stance on high end pvp, but something I think that every pvp player would agree on is that it is no fun to play against cheese, and that we are all here to have fun, and not to sweat our asses off playing against Timmy with a 2.5kd and 50,000 kills on a fusion. Love the content tho!
i don’t think that he’s saying last weekend was necessarily bad because he even said he just plays when he feels like it flawless pool or not. the problem is when casuals / inexperienced players ask for stuff like stricter matchmaking which most likely still won’t benefit when they’re only doing it for bounties etc. if you only play pvp you prob don’t fit that category. this week was easier even for top players as well as carries. if you put a team full of inexperienced players together they would still struggle most likely
An Actual rank system is the first step to fixing many problems. But what you said about mentality is something i recognized not too long ago myself. It seems weird that being good is looked down upon in most FPS communities in its odd way. Ive kinda stopped interacting with alot of people for that reason alone and im not even good myself, i just aspire to get better.
I agree personally ill get mad because im honestly average and want to get better and play trials but find it difficult when i have a good match and immediatly after get completely swamped its not that i think im amazing but i feel my skill level cant rise if i dont get a chance to even fight my opponent
what would fix this is if the game doesn't try to find another group to match with. Give me an option to stay in the current lobby, or to find another one.
Main issues I have with pvp is that: 1. Cheaters are starting to ramp up again and it freaking suuuuucks. 2. Air accuracy changes have caused major skill floor issues, encouraging bot-walk playstyles because otherwise you'll just miss, regardless of where the reticle is. Everything else is frustrating but manageable.
Yeah, the anti-cheat aint really holding up these days and they made this whole system to nerf stompees only to make the rest of pvp feel worse and its not even fleshed out on top of it.
Casuals will always run the decisions of pvp and pve, and I get it but cater towards everyone not a select group of people. Overall I agree with your opinion and hope to see more 🖤 love watching the streams to my boi
@@fiatearther2641 the thing is realistically connection based matchmaking is better because any player can agree going against someone with lag is worse than someone better than you cause even if they suck they have a huge advantage. that being said bungie just needs to get their head out of the early 2000's in gaming and get god damn dedicated pvp servers and quit the peer to peer shit which causes the huge lag and desync problems in the first place.
BRO, the generational thing you introduced is something I have really started to notice. The more I practice is the more I notice my deficiencies as a player. The more I’m I say to my self “dam hes nice” but for others around me it’s always an excuse it’s really never “ dam this guys pretty solid” people refuse to accept there are better players than them and they need to step it up.
I completely agree. Plenty of times, people just are better than you. Like they just hit all their shots and have good movement and game sense. But what’s annoying is dealing with players that always just crutch op weapons. Like there’s so many times that you just can’t do anything because they have a weapon you simply can’t beat in that scenario. Like fusions will just destroy people trying to just use handcannons. They should have no more range than average smgs. And smgs bleed too far into HC range. Someone made a video on how range is destiny’s biggest problem because a lot of times you actually can’t do anything. I respect players who hit their shots, not shotgun, fusion crutchers who get away with it in this game
I try to be as optimistic as possible about Bungie's decision making, but I have been gradually losing faith in the possibility of them affecting PvP in a positive way. I honestly don't see a day where there is place dedicated to hardcore players and PvP mains. They have been moving away from that ideal since Y1.
It’s quite coincidental but I had this exact thought earlier today. A number of players constantly call for SBMM and complain that they matched an 800x flawless team on their third match as if that 800x flawless team doesn’t belong in the playlist with them. Or players complaining that some good player is crutching HC/shotty and they should stop sweating to let people have fun. These are often the people in my discords who only play for the pinnacle and get out, yet they think SBMM will get them to play suddenly. Regardless of the matchmaking, there is still an opportunity to play and improve in crucible. If they really wanted to play they would play despite the matchmaking like the true pvp community and endure it because they enjoy the mode, or at least the concept of it
It's flat out laziness. The casuals don't want to have to work towards anything because they're used to just standing in wells to dps bosses and murdering red bars. D2's community as a whole HATES the idea of anyone being good at the game.
this video reminds me of my friend that rarely plays. they played one game after the most recent shotgun nerfs and still said they were OP. they also weren’t aware of the recent sandbox changes either
Yeah idk I'm not crazy good or anything but I found it a lot better this last week It was way more chilled out like Idm playing stacked teams like once or twice per card but its straight up exhausting to do it for 7 games in a row so I liked the last week cos there was the occasional pve player team that was just a chill stomping session
Different strokes for different folks, pub stomping my way through countless cards a session without matching one decent team that could shoot back is too sleeper for me
@@2011manchu yeah I get that man and dont get me wrong I'm no were near ur level but I do like those games where both teams are pretty much equally matched, But it is nice once in a while to just have some chill games where you can mess around with dumb loadouts sprinkled throughout the card
So genuine/good faith question, what can more casual/average pvp players do to improve their experience in crucible while we wait and see what/if changes are coming? I'm not talking about people who do three games a week for their pinacle and dip out. I mean people who engage with the crucible playlist but find themselves not having a good time.
The videos and resources are all there from multiple content creators. I usually suggest getting involved with community customs and discords that host them
Idk if you played halo 2 or 3 but they're ranking system 1-50 was great. Punished losses, games got drastically harder as you ranked up, had an environment that kept competitive players engaged leaving casual modes casual. It had flaws like derankers, but I don't feel like that would be much of a problem in d2 because of the time investment having a destiny account is. I understand d2 is a casual game, but for me and others like me it's an after work hobby that I like to try to get better at over time. Would be nice to play as hard as possible when I feel like In a ranked ladder, or just go play quick play instead for fun. Overall games pretty good right now tho compared to the past 2 years.
Something that always leads to the problem of not having a solid ranks system or a place for sweats to enjoy being good, is that you cannot really have a competitive PVP game mode with loot incentive. Because weapons like recluse and not forgotten were linked to the comp playlist, it made it so that your ranks actually affected your rewards, which I don't believe is common with other rank-based "competitive" games. Pair that with much of the PvE meta being dominated by said PVP playlist weapons, which not many PvE players could get, and it forced Bungie to make mountaintop, recluse much easier to get, destroying what was the only rank-based, PVP mode we had. While trials do not have a "rank system", it does have loot, providing weapons with separate/ improved stats, making them better than what you can get usually. This is a loot incentive and has made trials very uncompetitive. The main thing about this week, that I believe made it easier, was that people who hadn't gone flawless could still acquire adept loot, with their flawed card. This made them continue playing, which also made games easier for streamers and content creators. This shows that if normal, average players had some sort of loot incentive, that did not require wins, they would enter the playlist. The changes I would want, 1. Always obtain rep, even for losses. Atm, trials rep is almost unobtainable if you don't win games, and for some, getting carried is the only way to win. Thus not having a viable reward system perpetuates carry culture. 2. Removing the flawless pool. Although I personally haven't found the flawless pool to be any more difficult to play, it's just another step Bungie has made to make flawless cards easier for less-skilled players. I'd rather get gate kept, than have to wonder if every flawless seal I see is actually an expression of skill. Just my thoughts, I personally enjoyed last weekend, but I understand everyone's frustrations. I appreciate your comprehensive vidoes.
Yeah, I forgot to mention that competitive should have cosmetic rewards that can be flexed that have no effect on gameplay at all. Trials is always an uphill battle as far as improvements and quality of life enhancements go so I don't really bother talking too much about it because I ultimately don't care.
I’m a returning player who used to play pve more and now I play pvp And I thought it was just me being terrible t the game But then I realized that although I’m not top tier, I’m also not bad at pvp either That’s when I saw this video and my small world was rocked when I realized how much Bungie has changed the game over the years and how much it really does effect everyone’s experience. Especially in the pvp lobbies
I accepted that significant pvp improvement is not for me, i enjoy making a pvp build doing 10 -15 games with it then revisit the build a month down the line. I dont often find sucess but it brings me joy. comp & trials are not the playlists for mee since im not willing to go to streams for carries nor do i have a friend group to play with. I tried to get involved in illphysics community customs and every time i would be on a different build/rotate builds mid match, Ive been praised for having good mechanical skills but i know my aim and descision making is very slowly improving. being matched in a true competitive mode being close to the bottom and working my way up one point at a time seems like something i would dump some time into
There's a sub-section of players that you didn't take into account. It's the players that do believe in competitive matches, and that can only be accomplished with some form of SBMM. These players don't participate in raffles and find carries to be an abhomination. Even your suggestion, of a ranked ladder...is a form of sbmm. If you're in a bracket of the ladder, let's call it rank X, how this is implemented could very well be that you would only match people from rank X, until you get enough wins/points until you climb to rank X+1 (until you prove to the system parameters that you've increased your skill. Crazy I know.). This protects people in the rank X-1 from matching against you until they're ready. It seems to me that the community does not understand SBMM, because of the previous experience with it being overly strict and penalizing in terms of connection and queue times. The principle is correct though but it seems it became taboo. If a "Ranked Ladder playlist" is what we need, if it is what the PVP mains/sweats community accepts as competitive, then by all means, let's not use the word sbmm, since that feels itchy apparently. I'd be in that playlist every day.
Dedicated servers, proper ranking system, actual incentive to play with great rewards for ppl who actually put in the time. Another thing is that ranked modes need to be more focused on primary gunplay! Trials is a cheese factory. 1 hit weapons is 99% of the gameplay. It is not a skilled playlist. I hate playing it, but I do it for the loot lol. I'm a good player, and for me, primary weapons should be the focus. That is where the skill is. A lot of the times when my team is winning, the other team will go to all the cheapest weapons and loadouts possible. There shouldn't be a situation like that. Either you are good with your primary, or you lost.
@@Mirevs lmfao facts. I feel like all the quickplay modes are okay to have all this cheese. But trials and survival? Na. They need to be focused on primary gunplay period.
The funnest matches I play are usually when other team are dueling primarys back and forth. Usually snapped out of it suddenly by a rocket from enemy team or even the opposite from my team to enemies that I was having good gunfight with. Imagine a playlist that was primary only and could even have a selected primary or voting pre match. So many players would be in trouble if they had to depend on there primary.
@@MikeLAslade Bruh I swear the game would lose so many players haha. That's why bungie won't do it. But just give us ONE playlist that's competitive. I want to have duels and challenge myself and actually have a skilled mode. But everytime I play survival or trials, I have no choice but to use fusion rifles at this point. Having a primary fight then getting sniped or fusioned is the worse, so I had to just put mine on at this point lmfao
I love Destiny 2 PvP and my personal experience was better with SBMM. And I still got matched against streamers back then too. I can admit to myself that I cannot hang with the upper echelon of Destiny's PvP lords. I can go flawless but it is hard for me to do so. SBMM is geared for people like me, dedicated but not willing to get stomped in PvP ad nauseam.
I dont know if people with dislike me for this but I really enjoyed fighting in air and this recent nerf to in air accuracy has been kinda of rough, it feels like they just took a method of play to make it easier for others who didnt put as much time in the game.
Haven't heard this much honesty and truth in a while; tbh I wonder why people say "D2 isn't a competitive game" when we literally have playlists that highlight just that-- Competitive/Trials. I think the amount of variables the game provides kind of dilutes general consensus of whether the game is competitive from a casual's standpoint- which is inherently biased if they want the game to be catered to them ofc. Which in my opinion; should be the opposite, knowing each and every weapon or ability and how to counter such shows that specific game knowledge that might come with one that might be "experienced". I don't know too much about game direction and management, but in knowing the specific directions the game takes at times-- it makes me wonder if there's a internal conflict within the company itself; those that want the game to be slower and more forgiving, vs those that endorse fast play and higher skill ceilings. Aka; Those that make (Stasis, AE Changes, Bullet Mag) vs (Icarus Dash, Stasis Titan Pre-Nerf Shiver Strike, Icarus Grip, etc). In terms of general direction, the focus should be a bit re-evaluated to fix or adjust the sandbox that the players occupy so that they're able to then whenever something happens, it can be quickly adjusted with the data that comes with it; such as an actual 'Ranked System' for competitive. I hope they're able to grasp the longevity of consequences to changes they make, such as the 'Movement and general gunplay that makes Destiny what it is' in retrospect to the recent AE changes, it doesn't look good. I sometimes reference that saying of "Don't replace a good thing with another thing"-- as with such fundamental changes that effect literally EVERYONE in the long run, it feels like they're not necessarily applying the 'data' they get to the game whenever something good or bad happens, or perhaps its being misinterpreted at times. I hope they're able to turn it around somehow and provide healthier changes for both sides of the spectrum, both casual and long-term-player.
I could just be wrong about this, but I feel like the matchmaking as it stands right now is preventing me from improving in a meaningful way. I’m about a 1.5-1.8 KD player, and I have been mercied more times this season than I have in all the seasons prior that I have played (that’s only 3 other seasons, so it’s not as crazy as it sounds). Like just yesterday all 6 of the people on the other side had gilded Unbroken titles equipped, and i’m nowhere near that good, and the bottom two players on my team had a negative KDA average, which means they are significantly worse than me. I’m on the losing team a TON, and it’s the norm for me at this point. I feel like it’s very hard to improve as a player when i’m facing SUCH an uphill battle every match. Trials this past weekend was awful too, I don’t have a fire team, so I solo queue, and I was always faced against a 3 stack while I had two other solo queues, often worse players than me. I don’t know what to do
I'm sure the number of flawless players vs player count was better this weekend than it has been while we have had the whole flawless pool matchmaking. I think this shows they have a better chance of going flawless just by getting a lucky card vs win based in none flawless pool. Although that does make it ridiculously easy for good teams. I do also think maybe this is an experiment from Bungie but they don't want the backlash of saying matchmaking is off.
I can't think of the last time I played pvp without someone asking me to get on. What still drives me nuts is that d2 feels like an absolutely epic platform to compete on, capable of hyper competitive, fast paced gameplay with insane movement, but all of that is buried underneath layers of ill-conceived and sometimes incomplete systems, along with the endless list of vacuous nerfs and buffs, topped with low-skill ability dominant metas. The most fun I get out of the game nowadays is devs making themselves look dumb and d2 twitter in general
I think D2 should have a competitive seen or like a individual ranking system (as some others have mentioned). We already have something similar - the "Ranked" playlist, but it doesn't feel like u are getting ranked based on skill, but just of how toxic u can be in the matches to win them. I feel they need to rework the Ranked system to make it feel more exclusive and rewarding to have the skill to outplay other teams. It's what Trials should have been, as well. It also feels that Bungie has allowed players who just camp at the back of maps to increase their kd/kda's and not force players to move around the map. Maybe that's just me
After the latest dmg commentary of in air accuracy being the best it's ever been, there's a lot less stress once we all accept that what we see is as good as it gets. Bungie has been so disconnected from the pvp side of this franchise for years. I don't care if you're good, I don't care if you're bad - pvp in destiny isn't to be taken serious regardless of how many times they brand something as competitive. It's not. It's ability spam simulator with some occasional gun play. Most of the super sweats I've seen try other shooters get their shit wrecked - most, not all, but Destiny's biggest marketing is the accessibility - most people can pick up a controller and do semi well using a myriad of the meme guns and abilities. I was a fan of football games back in the day. When I wanted simulation, I'd play Madden. When I wanted a meme game, I'd play Blitz. It's the same thing with shooters with Destiny being more like Blitz. It's been almost 8 years - this isn't a competitive game and the company putting out this enhanced mobile game don't care about PvP.
Me: Casually remembering BO2 days - when no matter what weapon you picked, you had a equally fair chance of winning gun fights - when having a weapon category at hand wasn't a guaranteed 1 tap kill (Specials) - when the biggest threats in close range combat was a melee hit - when all the (Mini-map/Radar) did was slight blips towards unsilenced gunfire - when the decisive factor in winning vs loosing a gunfight was the chemistry between: Reaction time Situational Awareness Precision Consistency Unpredictable Movement
@@florp183 KSG = OP is the saddest take ever... Reasons: 1 - The claim that it was a 1 hit kill = OP (Other 1 hit kill weapons R870 MCS, DSR 50, BALLISTA, SMAW, RPG, CROSSBOW, BALLISTIC KNIFE) 2 - The claim that buh - buh - buh but it was a shotgun that 1 tapped at long range (Other long range 1 hit kills DSR 50, BALLISTA, SMAW, RPG, CROSSBOW, BALLISTIC KNIFE) 2 (Extra) - KSG = DSR or Ballista (With iron sights) 3 - TTK values on BO2 weapons were so low that gunfights were based on reaction time any way but, ok.
@@florp183 It's amazing, how unbalanced not only a standout weapon in destiny is (cough cough Vex Mythoclast), but also entire weapon Classes (SMG vs Shotguns, Pulse Rifles vs Fusion Rifles, Scout Rifles vs Linear Fusion Rifle, Hand cannons vs Snipers, sidearms vs Granade launchers) Comparing 1 "Standout weapon" with entire weapon Categories.
these players are the ones who kept complaining about stompeez and are the reason these shitty in air accuracy changes are in the game now, just to nerf 1 exotic. they made bungie nerf sliding, and nerf special SCAVENGER. like what?? the casual players are slowly killing this game and if they want boots on the ground just go play call of duty not destiny.
I agree with pretty much everything except for the remark about special ammo. It was the casuals that for example used fusions like a primary and invalidated getting good with anything that had a high skill floor and ceiling. I still think they should add more restrictions to special ammo such as only being able to pick up two bricks per life with a random chance of one to two shots. Stompeez was not unusually broken like Linears were, but now at least you don't feel obligated to use stompeez if you want to get competitive. The slide nerfs and in-air accuracy nerfs though are complete and utter garbage.
@@seanjohnston565 i don’t get why people complained about stompeez. like why not complain about ophidians for warlocks if ur gonna complain about stompeez. like ophidians are “quickdraw gauntlets” plus extended melee range, u would figure someone would complain about that but no. hunters are forever hated and we get the shittiest stuff. i don’t agree w the special changes bcuz i actually don’t wanna be in a double primary meta again. i like using my special and no i am not one of those people who use it as a primary, i just like to have more than 1 shot if someone does decide to ape me and i do like to jump snipe. cant do that anymore. specials are gonna be useless in pvp thats my concern. i like to have fun, i dont ape with a shotgun or fusion out from spawn. i just like having special ammo.
@@tonysbanned snipers did get hit the worse to be fair getting special in quick play is tough. But to be honest with beloved coming back I’m not mad about it don’t really love getting domed through flinch at shotgun range
the match maker and lobby balancing is a complete fail too. last night I got matched up against stacked teams in parties of 4 or 6 for like 5 or 6 straight games. it was not fun at all, and tbh it's causing burn out alot quicker this season.
I noticed that as well. A lot of bad players / pve mains who only play 3 games per week if even that feel entitled to have easy games while at the same time accusing better players of wanting easier lobbies so they can farm. They don't even understand the contradiction when it's pointed out to them. I once jokingly suggested GMs should become harder after one successful completion to equal trials flawless pool and all the players who thought flawless pool was the greatest thing ever thought I was nuts and pointed out how rediculous it would be to make GMs harder after one completion and therefore not farmable... Hmm... 🤔 But even worse than the entitlement is the toxicity many of those bad players or "casuals" show towards pvp and by extention towards pvp mains. I don't know how many comments I read where people openly say they don't play pvp but they are happy for changes like airborn effectiveness just because it spoils pvp players' fun. It's crazy to see how toxic some of these people are while at the same time ranting about "toxic sweatlords" whose oppinion about pvp "is not valid" by default cause they main pvp. 🙄
Dam gotta call out the Omni and wolves users like that “I main that”. Obviously they aren’t the only issue, titans and warlocks got there own busted stuff which makes the point even more solid that it’s kinda impossible to balance the sandbox
OP: Now you just hold on a cotton-pickin' minute, there, Deputy... I'm a veteran 'tortoise' who has enjoyed PvP since just the very sound of a Vex/Suros meant instant death...my weapons fired popcorn and party streamers, my armour was as tissue-wrap. But, still, I played - because as bad as I was / got, I enjoyed it and I kinda liked the Trials gear - who doesn't?! I did 95% of the heavy lifting on all my 'must have' PvP weapons - Thorn (D1) / Izanagi's / Luna / NForgotten / Recluse / etc., and my Hunter (COD-trained slayer) son carried me across the line. My 0.3% k/d hasn't budged much since D1Y1...I still play...I still enjoy PvP - even though arthritis and age are a thing...and I still love the Trials gear. Now, that's me. What I've been shouting for is a FAIR FIGHT - where Div 4 players (white/yellow belts) fight other Div 4 players; and, if/when one gets good enough to advance to Div 3 - then off ya go! That's the natural way one progresses. That's all I want...a fair fight...not much to ask, is it?! Instead, I'm up against Div 1 and Div 2 stacked teams of gilded ninjas sporting every trick piece of gear and weapon in the book...with mega clears...etc...etc... How is that ever a fair fight? IMHO: After BHQ upgrade their system to a Warp Drive from the Steam-powered one that's been here since D1, and then sort their servers out, e.g., dedicated Regional Servers; and ban the cheaters, etc., then, perhaps, construct a properly 'policed' ranking list, split into Divisions (like English or European Football league tables), where every player is ranked in a proper manner, then, perhaps, lots more Casuals and time-challenged players might return into the PVP / Trials arena, to enjoy a fair fight against similar players to themselves; leaving the stompers go stomp each other or get stomped by even bigger stompers than themselves, for once, and do it till it hurts. lol Currently, Trials and PvP is withering on the vine. Casuals don't like being farmed by bully teams, for that is what it amounts to; if anyone isn't sure about what that means, go watch Karate Kid (either version), and you'll get it; finally, it isn't about 'git gud, skrub'...it's about not putting up with it any more, never mind the yummy Trials gear...etc. Just my 2d worth. YMMV. Cheers! MDGA
Based and true. Kinda sad that bungie either doesn't care about pvp enough, or just doesn't understand it to ever implement the kinds of things that'd really solve this problem
I was playing trials last weekend solo and got matched against full stacks with over 200 flawless tickets each and plenty of streamers doing carries, just to keep in mind, I only got my first flawless that weekend because I got in my own three stack. I don’t think freelance should be the answer to trials solo matchmaking because it screws over duos who don’t have a third. The matchmaking just needs to prioritize stacks against stacks and solos against solos, and insert duos with solos against another duo and solo. I think that would just make the solo experience better.
I always direct people who ask me how I feel about things to this channel for further discussion. I'm by no means an elite player. I'm solid thats it. Even mid level players want a fleshed out ladder style ranked progression playlist or mode.
i knew the moment trials came out, comp would die. has received 0 updates since and trials is not a competitive/ ranked replacement. it’s more of an event.
It even amplifies a lot of the negative feeling that casuals have towards the game because it's specifically designed to be this uncompetitive playlist and has massive loss when you do lose tied to fantastic loot if you actually do win. Combine that with a lot of PVE weaponry being put into the playlist and you're essentially just encouraging players to go in do something they don't enjoy and then complain about it.
As a Not so good PvP player, I usually just do crucible for the pinnacle award then just drop out after the three match, but when I do play for just playing pvp it feels good to eventually get stomped on, you learn from what they did right ans what you did wrong and improve on it. Like I'm still against stacks of good players just pub stomping like crazy but nothing wrong with losing every so often and I think that's the problem with some people that they wanna always win games or get handed a win and it's kinda sad.
There is something that people talked a lot about but didn't describe that properly. "A lot of people prefer to win in any scenario. They just like to win. Having that feeling always. No matter what. The "fact" of win is what's most important to them." "The other half is those people who prefer something else. Ie challenge growth. You name it. Just like the "New age gurus" like to preach." And i want to point out that the first group of people is much bigger in numbers alone. That mentality alone are the reason of many many problems within any type of competition. Our society itself encourage winning and success above everything else. We can find that analogy within many activities through our life. People are willing to do some lets say risky and inappropriate things to appear successful in the eyes of others.
as an above average crucible player i would say, i agree with every point you made. i don’t think bungie should cater to the casual player base too much to where the better players are left out
I do think the game does need a competitive pvp playlist or control and have some sbm to it I personally think trials is fine how it is I my self like knowing if I start up trials I am going to run into the best of the best and only get better
I am not by any means a "pvp player" but I much preferred the forsaken era sandbox over what we have now. I find pvp pretty much unplayable now and only go in there if I have to which is rare. I dont complain about it tho I just assume that bungie doesnt want me playing it so I give them what they want
My personal opinion on this is that if games are to easy or to hard I'm not having fun as much fun although sometimes an easy or hard game can be nice maybe your having a off day or your playing the best you ever have
As a casual who only plays a couple of hours here and there who wants to try out a wide variety of (off meta) weapons/builds in a chill lobby playing against sweaty tryhards using the same cheesy meta loadouts every match just ain't fun
I'm in a clan with like 99% pve players and man it is very annoying being completely dismissed as a pvp sweat every time I say something regarding pvp, only to have the people who mocked me give their shitty opinion while only having played 3 pvp matches the whole season....
I might not be the best at crucible anymore but I deal with all the good people because they work harder to get better. The only issue I have is that those good players often get the worst players to play against. It seems like they never go up against anyone that is the same skill as them.
I play regular crucible all the time and IB when it comes around . I have played trials off and on . Most of the time when I play regular crucible their are a couple of unbroken or flawless players on the opposite team . Sometimes they out play me sometimes I out play them . But the one positive I take from getting out played by them is I learn from my mistakes . It has made me a better pvp player . As far as anyone being hardcore or casual players we are all just gamers period . As long as we have fun that's all that should matter .
Same, all these changes are so abstract. like back in early d2 trials, instead of tackling anything regarding the Hacking and Network Manipulation, they made so many weird changes, or how they keep trying to push "calculated" and "tactical" play by buffing the absolute crap out of campy builds and items, like The Stag, the old Stag I used to love in PvP and PvE, but the dmg resist Stag is just free crucible kills every time they don't expect it, so boring
I'm bad at PvP I want to get better but its hard to compete when I'm literally getting stomped every game and my friends don't wanna play PvP with me because its no fun getting stomped out
Bungie says they've disabled sbmm, but what they implented is worse. Team balancing makes good players have to carry 5 other blueberries who, alot of the time, aren't very good leading to mercys or drawn out slogs. This is terrible for the good players, but also the 1 hour casual who'll never touch pvp again after playing matches like that. Bungie's new matchmaking doesn't even protect casuals unless their plan is to force casuals to lose against way better players to sanitize the pvp population to only have the 1.5 KD+ players.
I feel like every trials should have free lance just based off the fact people in this community are mostly solo players but that’s just me I feel like it gives more of a chance for solos who wanna have a chance to go flawless again or even have there first flawless
Yo is there anyway you could make your sound louder? Every time I get an ad in one of your videos it's much louder than the video. Sorry, it's a super small thing.
realy unteresting hearing your thoughts on this I'm more of a pve player I'm not good at pvp at all and I try to improve sometimes but just prefer the pve sandbox do I want better matchmaking so I'm not curbstomped and always looking at my 0.2 kda all the time maybe but at the same time when I see that kda going up slowly (it used to be 0.1) I realise that I am slowly slowly improving and getting a better feel for the environment I also know I have a slightly odd perspective of when I get beaten down I get annoyed then look at what I can do to improve and I also know I just go into pvp to mess around or to finish catalyst quests for exotics so matchmaking while not perfect I coulden't really care if it changes or not. sorry for the long and confusing coment.
I legit had this conversation with someone who was a casual and hated pvp, and it's like dude, but you come to me or my friends or anyone u can to get carried, get better if you really cared man
I know this is irrelevant to the video but SOLAR 3.0 is worth than void 3.0. Being able to dodge and get your health back is ridiculous or wearing a helmet that heals you in ever encounter.
People forget that for trials to be fun, someone have to not be having fun. For casuals to have fun, they usually have to be beating casuals, which means casuals are still losing, which fuels the twitter warriors. Even if sbmm is added, the better team will still win and the worse team will lose. Trials can never be perfect because of this and people need to find peace with that.
I just wish Trials was Freelance every week. I only like teaming up with friends, but all of my friends are very casual PvP players. ALSO CAN WE GET SOME DEDICATED SERVERS
3:15 You say you only play against cheaters, but this gameplay proves you wrong. your only intention is to stomp us noobs because you’re scared to play people your own skill.
Bungie stated "Trials will be the pinnacle end game pvp content." I do find it funny how the casuals want it to be a handout. If you want the flawless pool loot, then you got to at least put in a few hours and get better. Personally, when I watch these streamers doing carrys I'm not there for the raffle, but rather watching how they play the map. I think if the casuals would watch the streams with the intent on improving/learning rather than winning a raffle, they could go flawless on their own.
Honestly, I don’t find destiny to be skillful for a pvp aspect simply because of the reliance of abilities and meta weapons and builds. It doesn’t make me think that something needs to be done and I just simply won’t play pvp. I just don’t tend to enjoy it because I don’t want to feel restricted with certain things to be good. Destiny is just a different type of fps that I just can’t pvp in. I used to play battlefield 3/4 all the time because I could use any weapon in the game and still dominate due to a lot of being based on how well I could aim and how I position myself. Now that I’ve been working a lot and not having too much time with games I understand I won’t be able to keep up with certain people nor do I have the energy so I just left competitive stuff. I think I’ve grown contempt with the fact that I have skill in games but I’ll never be able to keep up with others simply because life happened and I have more important things.
I come from a fight game background too and I think it's absurd that D2 pvp players think they should be playing with bronzies every day. Trials shouldn't be easy by any means. I can tune into a great streamer and always see them winning every match. I just don't get it.
All points valid. But man the sandbox itself just feels so crappy to play in general. All of the changes can happen but we’ll have to still have to try to kill infinitely healing guardians.
I plap pvp alot, I'm average at best I know I can be better, I don't play trials solely because my light level. I'd prefer to be the highest light possible so I can be equal to my opponents for the most part.
whats even worse with the whole service streamer thing, especially this weekend with the bugged trials, is that alot of these guys who usually dominate the twitch directory were down at gcx. so alot of these casual players complaining about it weren't even matching them. the same ones asking for sbmm are inherently trying to make the game competitive while we have a watered down comp now because of these SAME casuals. blows my fucking mind.
what makes it even worse to me is that the same inexperienced players that complain are also the first ones in trials raffles
And paying their 40 dollar recov
I'd love an actual rank system for competitive; right now I don't really have a way to measure improvement besides KD when I can max my comp rank by doing 99999 freelance matches
They also changed the matchmaking it seems this season i have like double the kd even tho i improved i should only have a slight kd increase if it was as sweaty as last season so comp just feels useless
Casual would want to be at top of the list even in a rank system
Dedicated servers and a real ranked PvP system.
This has always been the broad answer to the matchmaking debate from what I can gather from both sides. That way, the pub playlist can be a laid back Wild West.
Does that mean ranked is locked loadouts with heavy exotic restrictions? Maybe. Does that mean ranked is just trials minus the loot? Maybe. I think the foundation needs settled before we figure out bells and window dressing.
I definitely agree with a proper ranked playlist keeping all of the sweaty players in one spot much better than a flawless pool for example. I was HOOKED to getting level 50 in every single Halo 3 playlist.
yesssss
I am a casual that just only plays pvp. This weekend was a blessing for me, I went flawless 4x and got my guilded flawless first week. As a kid, and a casual this is an achievement for me. I don't have a great stance on high end pvp, but something I think that every pvp player would agree on is that it is no fun to play against cheese, and that we are all here to have fun, and not to sweat our asses off playing against Timmy with a 2.5kd and 50,000 kills on a fusion. Love the content tho!
Well said.
i don’t think that he’s saying last weekend was necessarily bad because he even said he just plays when he feels like it flawless pool or not. the problem is when casuals / inexperienced players ask for stuff like stricter matchmaking which most likely still won’t benefit when they’re only doing it for bounties etc. if you only play pvp you prob don’t fit that category. this week was easier even for top players as well as carries. if you put a team full of inexperienced players together they would still struggle most likely
@@TreyBtw I totally agree
An Actual rank system is the first step to fixing many problems.
But what you said about mentality is something i recognized not too long ago myself. It seems weird that being good is looked down upon in most FPS communities in its odd way. Ive kinda stopped interacting with alot of people for that reason alone and im not even good myself, i just aspire to get better.
I agree personally ill get mad because im honestly average and want to get better and play trials but find it difficult when i have a good match and immediatly after get completely swamped its not that i think im amazing but i feel my skill level cant rise if i dont get a chance to even fight my opponent
what would fix this is if the game doesn't try to find another group to match with. Give me an option to stay in the current lobby, or to find another one.
Main issues I have with pvp is that:
1. Cheaters are starting to ramp up again and it freaking suuuuucks.
2. Air accuracy changes have caused major skill floor issues, encouraging bot-walk playstyles because otherwise you'll just miss, regardless of where the reticle is.
Everything else is frustrating but manageable.
Yeah, the anti-cheat aint really holding up these days and they made this whole system to nerf stompees only to make the rest of pvp feel worse and its not even fleshed out on top of it.
Casuals will always run the decisions of pvp and pve, and I get it but cater towards everyone not a select group of people. Overall I agree with your opinion and hope to see more 🖤 love watching the streams to my boi
Yet Bungie themselves said the reason they went back to CBMM is due to "feedback from high skilled players"
@@fiatearther2641 sbmm ≠ ranked/competitive
@@fiatearther2641 the thing is realistically connection based matchmaking is better because any player can agree going against someone with lag is worse than someone better than you cause even if they suck they have a huge advantage. that being said bungie just needs to get their head out of the early 2000's in gaming and get god damn dedicated pvp servers and quit the peer to peer shit which causes the huge lag and desync problems in the first place.
@@WGG-01 Desync is terrible, I’ll be having a good time then mf named Asuke teleporting killing everyone
@@WGG-01 facts I used to play an mmo caller eso and the Pvp servers were atrocious after the pandemic, looks like destiny falling down the same hole
7 years and still no “gun only-no abilities” game mode.
Right ?? How do we not have it
Rumble should be a no heavy and ability gamemode
BRO, the generational thing you introduced is something I have really started to notice. The more I practice is the more I notice my deficiencies as a player. The more I’m I say to my self “dam hes nice” but for others around me it’s always an excuse it’s really never “ dam this guys pretty solid” people refuse to accept there are better players than them and they need to step it up.
I completely agree. Plenty of times, people just are better than you. Like they just hit all their shots and have good movement and game sense. But what’s annoying is dealing with players that always just crutch op weapons. Like there’s so many times that you just can’t do anything because they have a weapon you simply can’t beat in that scenario. Like fusions will just destroy people trying to just use handcannons. They should have no more range than average smgs. And smgs bleed too far into HC range. Someone made a video on how range is destiny’s biggest problem because a lot of times you actually can’t do anything. I respect players who hit their shots, not shotgun, fusion crutchers who get away with it in this game
Cook out analogy was actually really good.
I try to be as optimistic as possible about Bungie's decision making, but I have been gradually losing faith in the possibility of them affecting PvP in a positive way. I honestly don't see a day where there is place dedicated to hardcore players and PvP mains. They have been moving away from that ideal since Y1.
food is the best category for illustrating big ideas
It’s quite coincidental but I had this exact thought earlier today. A number of players constantly call for SBMM and complain that they matched an 800x flawless team on their third match as if that 800x flawless team doesn’t belong in the playlist with them. Or players complaining that some good player is crutching HC/shotty and they should stop sweating to let people have fun. These are often the people in my discords who only play for the pinnacle and get out, yet they think SBMM will get them to play suddenly. Regardless of the matchmaking, there is still an opportunity to play and improve in crucible. If they really wanted to play they would play despite the matchmaking like the true pvp community and endure it because they enjoy the mode, or at least the concept of it
It's flat out laziness. The casuals don't want to have to work towards anything because they're used to just standing in wells to dps bosses and murdering red bars.
D2's community as a whole HATES the idea of anyone being good at the game.
Love your work, always keen to listen to a good take from a skilled player
this video reminds me of my friend that rarely plays. they played one game after the most recent shotgun nerfs and still said they were OP. they also weren’t aware of the recent sandbox changes either
How can anyone still say shotguns are OP when they have been nerfed into the ground like 6 times haha
Really enjoy your takes as they are typically spot on and you think them through. Cheers.
Yeah idk I'm not crazy good or anything but I found it a lot better this last week
It was way more chilled out like Idm playing stacked teams like once or twice per card but its straight up exhausting to do it for 7 games in a row so I liked the last week cos there was the occasional pve player team that was just a chill stomping session
Different strokes for different folks, pub stomping my way through countless cards a session without matching one decent team that could shoot back is too sleeper for me
@@2011manchu yeah I get that man and dont get me wrong I'm no were near ur level but I do like those games where both teams are pretty much equally matched,
But it is nice once in a while to just have some chill games where you can mess around with dumb loadouts sprinkled throughout the card
Love hearing your feedback and takes on PvP. Keep up the good work!
So genuine/good faith question, what can more casual/average pvp players do to improve their experience in crucible while we wait and see what/if changes are coming? I'm not talking about people who do three games a week for their pinacle and dip out. I mean people who engage with the crucible playlist but find themselves not having a good time.
The videos and resources are all there from multiple content creators. I usually suggest getting involved with community customs and discords that host them
LunaRz don’t miss in-game or with his content. This nailed it
hit every point so well, great vid
underrated content creator
Idk if you played halo 2 or 3 but they're ranking system 1-50 was great. Punished losses, games got drastically harder as you ranked up, had an environment that kept competitive players engaged leaving casual modes casual. It had flaws like derankers, but I don't feel like that would be much of a problem in d2 because of the time investment having a destiny account is.
I understand d2 is a casual game, but for me and others like me it's an after work hobby that I like to try to get better at over time. Would be nice to play as hard as possible when I feel like In a ranked ladder, or just go play quick play instead for fun.
Overall games pretty good right now tho compared to the past 2 years.
Something that always leads to the problem of not having a solid ranks system or a place for sweats to enjoy being good, is that you cannot really have a competitive PVP game mode with loot incentive. Because weapons like recluse and not forgotten were linked to the comp playlist, it made it so that your ranks actually affected your rewards, which I don't believe is common with other rank-based "competitive" games. Pair that with much of the PvE meta being dominated by said PVP playlist weapons, which not many PvE players could get, and it forced Bungie to make mountaintop, recluse much easier to get, destroying what was the only rank-based, PVP mode we had.
While trials do not have a "rank system", it does have loot, providing weapons with separate/ improved stats, making them better than what you can get usually. This is a loot incentive and has made trials very uncompetitive. The main thing about this week, that I believe made it easier, was that people who hadn't gone flawless could still acquire adept loot, with their flawed card. This made them continue playing, which also made games easier for streamers and content creators. This shows that if normal, average players had some sort of loot incentive, that did not require wins, they would enter the playlist.
The changes I would want, 1. Always obtain rep, even for losses. Atm, trials rep is almost unobtainable if you don't win games, and for some, getting carried is the only way to win. Thus not having a viable reward system perpetuates carry culture.
2. Removing the flawless pool. Although I personally haven't found the flawless pool to be any more difficult to play, it's just another step Bungie has made to make flawless cards easier for less-skilled players. I'd rather get gate kept, than have to wonder if every flawless seal I see is actually an expression of skill.
Just my thoughts, I personally enjoyed last weekend, but I understand everyone's frustrations. I appreciate your comprehensive vidoes.
Yeah, I forgot to mention that competitive should have cosmetic rewards that can be flexed that have no effect on gameplay at all. Trials is always an uphill battle as far as improvements and quality of life enhancements go so I don't really bother talking too much about it because I ultimately don't care.
Keep up the content man! Really enjoy hearing things from an experienced player.
I want to build a family with this video
I’m a returning player who used to play pve more and now I play pvp
And I thought it was just me being terrible t the game
But then I realized that although I’m not top tier, I’m also not bad at pvp either
That’s when I saw this video and my small world was rocked when I realized how much Bungie has changed the game over the years and how much it really does effect everyone’s experience. Especially in the pvp lobbies
I accepted that significant pvp improvement is not for me, i enjoy making a pvp build doing 10 -15 games with it then revisit the build a month down the line.
I dont often find sucess but it brings me joy.
comp & trials are not the playlists for mee since im not willing to go to streams for carries nor do i have a friend group to play with.
I tried to get involved in illphysics community customs and every time i would be on a different build/rotate builds mid match, Ive been praised for having good mechanical skills but i know my aim and descision making is very slowly improving.
being matched in a true competitive mode being close to the bottom and working my way up one point at a time seems like something i would dump some time into
thank you for being a major figure in the pvp landscape that isnt afraid to tell the people the actual problem with destiny 2 pvp.
I'm no major figure by any means, but I just like to talk about stuff no one else does
@@2011manchu well, ill keep supporting and sharing your videos until you do, your content is worth it
There's a sub-section of players that you didn't take into account. It's the players that do believe in competitive matches, and that can only be accomplished with some form of SBMM. These players don't participate in raffles and find carries to be an abhomination.
Even your suggestion, of a ranked ladder...is a form of sbmm. If you're in a bracket of the ladder, let's call it rank X, how this is implemented could very well be that you would only match people from rank X, until you get enough wins/points until you climb to rank X+1 (until you prove to the system parameters that you've increased your skill. Crazy I know.). This protects people in the rank X-1 from matching against you until they're ready.
It seems to me that the community does not understand SBMM, because of the previous experience with it being overly strict and penalizing in terms of connection and queue times. The principle is correct though but it seems it became taboo.
If a "Ranked Ladder playlist" is what we need, if it is what the PVP mains/sweats community accepts as competitive, then by all means, let's not use the word sbmm, since that feels itchy apparently.
I'd be in that playlist every day.
Dedicated servers, proper ranking system, actual incentive to play with great rewards for ppl who actually put in the time. Another thing is that ranked modes need to be more focused on primary gunplay! Trials is a cheese factory. 1 hit weapons is 99% of the gameplay. It is not a skilled playlist. I hate playing it, but I do it for the loot lol. I'm a good player, and for me, primary weapons should be the focus. That is where the skill is. A lot of the times when my team is winning, the other team will go to all the cheapest weapons and loadouts possible. There shouldn't be a situation like that. Either you are good with your primary, or you lost.
The realest thing I’ve read all day I love when ppl use primary dirty rats get mad at me cuz I suggest for them to use a primary
@@Mirevs lmfao facts. I feel like all the quickplay modes are okay to have all this cheese. But trials and survival? Na. They need to be focused on primary gunplay period.
The funnest matches I play are usually when other team are dueling primarys back and forth. Usually snapped out of it suddenly by a rocket from enemy team or even the opposite from my team to enemies that I was having good gunfight with. Imagine a playlist that was primary only and could even have a selected primary or voting pre match. So many players would be in trouble if they had to depend on there primary.
@@MikeLAslade Bruh I swear the game would lose so many players haha. That's why bungie won't do it. But just give us ONE playlist that's competitive. I want to have duels and challenge myself and actually have a skilled mode. But everytime I play survival or trials, I have no choice but to use fusion rifles at this point. Having a primary fight then getting sniped or fusioned is the worse, so I had to just put mine on at this point lmfao
Need more ppl with your type of content in d2 community imo keep it up
I love Destiny 2 PvP and my personal experience was better with SBMM. And I still got matched against streamers back then too. I can admit to myself that I cannot hang with the upper echelon of Destiny's PvP lords.
I can go flawless but it is hard for me to do so. SBMM is geared for people like me, dedicated but not willing to get stomped in PvP ad nauseam.
Yooo, I was waiting for your next vid
Hesstruckhere, this man makes so many valid points. Its amazing.
I dont know if people with dislike me for this but I really enjoyed fighting in air and this recent nerf to in air accuracy has been kinda of rough, it feels like they just took a method of play to make it easier for others who didnt put as much time in the game.
Haven't heard this much honesty and truth in a while; tbh I wonder why people say "D2 isn't a competitive game" when we literally have playlists that highlight just that-- Competitive/Trials. I think the amount of variables the game provides kind of dilutes general consensus of whether the game is competitive from a casual's standpoint- which is inherently biased if they want the game to be catered to them ofc. Which in my opinion; should be the opposite, knowing each and every weapon or ability and how to counter such shows that specific game knowledge that might come with one that might be "experienced". I don't know too much about game direction and management, but in knowing the specific directions the game takes at times-- it makes me wonder if there's a internal conflict within the company itself; those that want the game to be slower and more forgiving, vs those that endorse fast play and higher skill ceilings. Aka; Those that make (Stasis, AE Changes, Bullet Mag) vs (Icarus Dash, Stasis Titan Pre-Nerf Shiver Strike, Icarus Grip, etc). In terms of general direction, the focus should be a bit re-evaluated to fix or adjust the sandbox that the players occupy so that they're able to then whenever something happens, it can be quickly adjusted with the data that comes with it; such as an actual 'Ranked System' for competitive. I hope they're able to grasp the longevity of consequences to changes they make, such as the 'Movement and general gunplay that makes Destiny what it is' in retrospect to the recent AE changes, it doesn't look good. I sometimes reference that saying of "Don't replace a good thing with another thing"-- as with such fundamental changes that effect literally EVERYONE in the long run, it feels like they're not necessarily applying the 'data' they get to the game whenever something good or bad happens, or perhaps its being misinterpreted at times. I hope they're able to turn it around somehow and provide healthier changes for both sides of the spectrum, both casual and long-term-player.
I honestly kind of lost hope lol, they have opened pandora's box in the the regard of sandbox changes and I dont think it can be sealed
No doubt! What’s your CSGO rank?
I could just be wrong about this, but I feel like the matchmaking as it stands right now is preventing me from improving in a meaningful way. I’m about a 1.5-1.8 KD player, and I have been mercied more times this season than I have in all the seasons prior that I have played (that’s only 3 other seasons, so it’s not as crazy as it sounds). Like just yesterday all 6 of the people on the other side had gilded Unbroken titles equipped, and i’m nowhere near that good, and the bottom two players on my team had a negative KDA average, which means they are significantly worse than me. I’m on the losing team a TON, and it’s the norm for me at this point. I feel like it’s very hard to improve as a player when i’m facing SUCH an uphill battle every match. Trials this past weekend was awful too, I don’t have a fire team, so I solo queue, and I was always faced against a 3 stack while I had two other solo queues, often worse players than me. I don’t know what to do
I've lost interested into destiny pvp, all you see is hc and nothing else the sandbox will try to fix anything but hc sadly
I'm sure the number of flawless players vs player count was better this weekend than it has been while we have had the whole flawless pool matchmaking. I think this shows they have a better chance of going flawless just by getting a lucky card vs win based in none flawless pool. Although that does make it ridiculously easy for good teams. I do also think maybe this is an experiment from Bungie but they don't want the backlash of saying matchmaking is off.
I can't think of the last time I played pvp without someone asking me to get on. What still drives me nuts is that d2 feels like an absolutely epic platform to compete on, capable of hyper competitive, fast paced gameplay with insane movement, but all of that is buried underneath layers of ill-conceived and sometimes incomplete systems, along with the endless list of vacuous nerfs and buffs, topped with low-skill ability dominant metas. The most fun I get out of the game nowadays is devs making themselves look dumb and d2 twitter in general
I think D2 should have a competitive seen or like a individual ranking system (as some others have mentioned). We already have something similar - the "Ranked" playlist, but it doesn't feel like u are getting ranked based on skill, but just of how toxic u can be in the matches to win them. I feel they need to rework the Ranked system to make it feel more exclusive and rewarding to have the skill to outplay other teams. It's what Trials should have been, as well.
It also feels that Bungie has allowed players who just camp at the back of maps to increase their kd/kda's and not force players to move around the map. Maybe that's just me
It’s always a good day when Lunarz uploads :)
After the latest dmg commentary of in air accuracy being the best it's ever been, there's a lot less stress once we all accept that what we see is as good as it gets. Bungie has been so disconnected from the pvp side of this franchise for years. I don't care if you're good, I don't care if you're bad - pvp in destiny isn't to be taken serious regardless of how many times they brand something as competitive. It's not. It's ability spam simulator with some occasional gun play.
Most of the super sweats I've seen try other shooters get their shit wrecked - most, not all, but Destiny's biggest marketing is the accessibility - most people can pick up a controller and do semi well using a myriad of the meme guns and abilities.
I was a fan of football games back in the day. When I wanted simulation, I'd play Madden. When I wanted a meme game, I'd play Blitz. It's the same thing with shooters with Destiny being more like Blitz. It's been almost 8 years - this isn't a competitive game and the company putting out this enhanced mobile game don't care about PvP.
Me: Casually remembering BO2 days
- when no matter what weapon you picked, you had a equally fair chance of winning gun fights
- when having a weapon category at hand wasn't a guaranteed 1 tap kill (Specials)
- when the biggest threats in close range combat was a melee hit
- when all the (Mini-map/Radar) did was slight blips towards unsilenced gunfire
- when the decisive factor in winning vs loosing a gunfight was the chemistry between:
Reaction time
Situational Awareness
Precision
Consistency
Unpredictable Movement
We just ignoring the ksg in bo2 too?
@@florp183 KSG = OP is the saddest take ever...
Reasons:
1 - The claim that it was a 1 hit kill = OP (Other 1 hit kill weapons R870 MCS, DSR 50, BALLISTA, SMAW, RPG, CROSSBOW, BALLISTIC KNIFE)
2 - The claim that buh - buh - buh but it was a shotgun that 1 tapped at long range
(Other long range 1 hit kills DSR 50, BALLISTA, SMAW, RPG, CROSSBOW, BALLISTIC KNIFE)
2 (Extra) - KSG = DSR or Ballista (With iron sights)
3 - TTK values on BO2 weapons were so low that gunfights were based on reaction time any way but, ok.
@@Average_Internet_User101 The same can be said with d2, which is why I brought up the ksg
@@florp183 It's amazing, how unbalanced not only a standout weapon in destiny is (cough cough Vex Mythoclast), but also entire weapon Classes (SMG vs Shotguns, Pulse Rifles vs Fusion Rifles, Scout Rifles vs Linear Fusion Rifle, Hand cannons vs Snipers, sidearms vs Granade launchers)
Comparing 1 "Standout weapon" with entire weapon Categories.
Cold Denial, a man of culture, I see
these players are the ones who kept complaining about stompeez and are the reason these shitty in air accuracy changes are in the game now, just to nerf 1 exotic. they made bungie nerf sliding, and nerf special SCAVENGER. like what?? the casual players are slowly killing this game and if they want boots on the ground just go play call of duty not destiny.
Tbh the scav nerf was kinda needed. Wouldn’t be an issue if the only valid playstyle weren’t bot walking with a pulse
I agree with pretty much everything except for the remark about special ammo. It was the casuals that for example used fusions like a primary and invalidated getting good with anything that had a high skill floor and ceiling. I still think they should add more restrictions to special ammo such as only being able to pick up two bricks per life with a random chance of one to two shots. Stompeez was not unusually broken like Linears were, but now at least you don't feel obligated to use stompeez if you want to get competitive. The slide nerfs and in-air accuracy nerfs though are complete and utter garbage.
@@seanjohnston565 i don’t get why people complained about stompeez. like why not complain about ophidians for warlocks if ur gonna complain about stompeez. like ophidians are “quickdraw gauntlets” plus extended melee range, u would figure someone would complain about that but no. hunters are forever hated and we get the shittiest stuff. i don’t agree w the special changes bcuz i actually don’t wanna be in a double primary meta again. i like using my special and no i am not one of those people who use it as a primary, i just like to have more than 1 shot if someone does decide to ape me and i do like to jump snipe. cant do that anymore. specials are gonna be useless in pvp thats my concern. i like to have fun, i dont ape with a shotgun or fusion out from spawn. i just like having special ammo.
@@seanjohnston565 now I just feel obliged to use omni lol
@@tonysbanned snipers did get hit the worse to be fair getting special in quick play is tough. But to be honest with beloved coming back I’m not mad about it don’t really love getting domed through flinch at shotgun range
the match maker and lobby balancing is a complete fail too. last night I got matched up against stacked teams in parties of 4 or 6 for like 5 or 6 straight games. it was not fun at all, and tbh it's causing burn out alot quicker this season.
Lobby balancing has been a problems since forsaken
I noticed that as well. A lot of bad players / pve mains who only play 3 games per week if even that feel entitled to have easy games while at the same time accusing better players of wanting easier lobbies so they can farm. They don't even understand the contradiction when it's pointed out to them.
I once jokingly suggested GMs should become harder after one successful completion to equal trials flawless pool and all the players who thought flawless pool was the greatest thing ever thought I was nuts and pointed out how rediculous it would be to make GMs harder after one completion and therefore not farmable... Hmm... 🤔
But even worse than the entitlement is the toxicity many of those bad players or "casuals" show towards pvp and by extention towards pvp mains. I don't know how many comments I read where people openly say they don't play pvp but they are happy for changes like airborn effectiveness just because it spoils pvp players' fun.
It's crazy to see how toxic some of these people are while at the same time ranting about "toxic sweatlords" whose oppinion about pvp "is not valid" by default cause they main pvp. 🙄
As always great ideas!
I've always said that it makes no sense to balance PvP around the part of the playerbase that only plays 15 or so matches a week.
Dam gotta call out the Omni and wolves users like that “I main that”. Obviously they aren’t the only issue, titans and warlocks got there own busted stuff which makes the point even more solid that it’s kinda impossible to balance the sandbox
OP: Now you just hold on a cotton-pickin' minute, there, Deputy... I'm a veteran 'tortoise' who has enjoyed PvP since just the very sound of a Vex/Suros meant instant death...my weapons fired popcorn and party streamers, my armour was as tissue-wrap. But, still, I played - because as bad as I was / got, I enjoyed it and I kinda liked the Trials gear - who doesn't?! I did 95% of the heavy lifting on all my 'must have' PvP weapons - Thorn (D1) / Izanagi's / Luna / NForgotten / Recluse / etc., and my Hunter (COD-trained slayer) son carried me across the line. My 0.3% k/d hasn't budged much since D1Y1...I still play...I still enjoy PvP - even though arthritis and age are a thing...and I still love the Trials gear. Now, that's me. What I've been shouting for is a FAIR FIGHT - where Div 4 players (white/yellow belts) fight other Div 4 players; and, if/when one gets good enough to advance to Div 3 - then off ya go! That's the natural way one progresses. That's all I want...a fair fight...not much to ask, is it?! Instead, I'm up against Div 1 and Div 2 stacked teams of gilded ninjas sporting every trick piece of gear and weapon in the book...with mega clears...etc...etc... How is that ever a fair fight?
IMHO: After BHQ upgrade their system to a Warp Drive from the Steam-powered one that's been here since D1, and then sort their servers out, e.g., dedicated Regional Servers; and ban the cheaters, etc., then, perhaps, construct a properly 'policed' ranking list, split into Divisions (like English or European Football league tables), where every player is ranked in a proper manner, then, perhaps, lots more Casuals and time-challenged players might return into the PVP / Trials arena, to enjoy a fair fight against similar players to themselves; leaving the stompers go stomp each other or get stomped by even bigger stompers than themselves, for once, and do it till it hurts. lol
Currently, Trials and PvP is withering on the vine. Casuals don't like being farmed by bully teams, for that is what it amounts to; if anyone isn't sure about what that means, go watch Karate Kid (either version), and you'll get it; finally, it isn't about 'git gud, skrub'...it's about not putting up with it any more, never mind the yummy Trials gear...etc. Just my 2d worth. YMMV. Cheers! MDGA
Based and true. Kinda sad that bungie either doesn't care about pvp enough, or just doesn't understand it to ever implement the kinds of things that'd really solve this problem
I was playing trials last weekend solo and got matched against full stacks with over 200 flawless tickets each and plenty of streamers doing carries, just to keep in mind, I only got my first flawless that weekend because I got in my own three stack.
I don’t think freelance should be the answer to trials solo matchmaking because it screws over duos who don’t have a third. The matchmaking just needs to prioritize stacks against stacks and solos against solos, and insert duos with solos against another duo and solo. I think that would just make the solo experience better.
I always direct people who ask me how I feel about things to this channel for further discussion. I'm by no means an elite player. I'm solid thats it. Even mid level players want a fleshed out ladder style ranked progression playlist or mode.
i knew the moment trials came out, comp would die. has received 0 updates since and trials is not a competitive/ ranked replacement. it’s more of an event.
It even amplifies a lot of the negative feeling that casuals have towards the game because it's specifically designed to be this uncompetitive playlist and has massive loss when you do lose tied to fantastic loot if you actually do win. Combine that with a lot of PVE weaponry being put into the playlist and you're essentially just encouraging players to go in do something they don't enjoy and then complain about it.
As a Not so good PvP player, I usually just do crucible for the pinnacle award then just drop out after the three match, but when I do play for just playing pvp it feels good to eventually get stomped on, you learn from what they did right ans what you did wrong and improve on it. Like I'm still against stacks of good players just pub stomping like crazy but nothing wrong with losing every so often and I think that's the problem with some people that they wanna always win games or get handed a win and it's kinda sad.
There is something that people talked a lot about but didn't describe that properly. "A lot of people prefer to win in any scenario. They just like to win. Having that feeling always. No matter what.
The "fact" of win is what's most important to them." "The other half is those people who prefer something else. Ie challenge growth. You name it. Just like the "New age gurus" like to preach."
And i want to point out that the first group of people is much bigger in numbers alone. That mentality alone are the reason of many many problems within any type of competition. Our society itself encourage winning and success above everything else. We can find that analogy within many activities through our life. People are willing to do some lets say risky and inappropriate things to appear successful in the eyes of others.
Would you say a ranked system similar to overwatch or valorant would be better? Or something different?
Anything honestly lol
@@2011manchu lmao it really is a struggle
as an above average crucible player i would say, i agree with every point you made. i don’t think bungie should cater to the casual player base too much to where the better players are left out
Bless brother good video I watched til the end.
Much love man
I do think the game does need a competitive pvp playlist or control and have some sbm to it I personally think trials is fine how it is I my self like knowing if I start up trials I am going to run into the best of the best and only get better
I am not by any means a "pvp player" but I much preferred the forsaken era sandbox over what we have now.
I find pvp pretty much unplayable now and only go in there if I have to which is rare.
I dont complain about it tho I just assume that bungie doesnt want me playing it so I give them what they want
My personal opinion on this is that if games are to easy or to hard I'm not having fun as much fun although sometimes an easy or hard game can be nice maybe your having a off day or your playing the best you ever have
As a casual who only plays a couple of hours here and there who wants to try out a wide variety of (off meta) weapons/builds in a chill lobby playing against sweaty tryhards using the same cheesy meta loadouts every match just ain't fun
I'm in a clan with like 99% pve players and man it is very annoying being completely dismissed as a pvp sweat every time I say something regarding pvp, only to have the people who mocked me give their shitty opinion while only having played 3 pvp matches the whole season....
I might not be the best at crucible anymore but I deal with all the good people because they work harder to get better. The only issue I have is that those good players often get the worst players to play against. It seems like they never go up against anyone that is the same skill as them.
I play regular crucible all the time and IB when it comes around . I have played trials off and on . Most of the time when I play regular crucible their are a couple of unbroken or flawless players on the opposite team . Sometimes they out play me sometimes I out play them . But the one positive I take from getting out played by them is I learn from my mistakes . It has made me a better pvp player . As far as anyone being hardcore or casual players we are all just gamers period . As long as we have fun that's all that should matter .
Same, all these changes are so abstract.
like back in early d2 trials, instead of tackling anything regarding the Hacking and Network Manipulation, they made so many weird changes, or how they keep trying to push "calculated" and "tactical" play by buffing the absolute crap out of campy builds and items, like The Stag, the old Stag I used to love in PvP and PvE, but the dmg resist Stag is just free crucible kills every time they don't expect it, so boring
I'm bad at PvP I want to get better but its hard to compete when I'm literally getting stomped every game and my friends don't wanna play PvP with me because its no fun getting stomped out
Bungie says they've disabled sbmm, but what they implented is worse. Team balancing makes good players have to carry 5 other blueberries who, alot of the time, aren't very good leading to mercys or drawn out slogs. This is terrible for the good players, but also the 1 hour casual who'll never touch pvp again after playing matches like that.
Bungie's new matchmaking doesn't even protect casuals unless their plan is to force casuals to lose against way better players to sanitize the pvp population to only have the 1.5 KD+ players.
If you can’t go flawless with flawless pool inactive you simply don’t belong in the playlist
I feel like every trials should have free lance just based off the fact people in this community are mostly solo players but that’s just me I feel like it gives more of a chance for solos who wanna have a chance to go flawless again or even have there first flawless
Extremely well put mate
Yo is there anyway you could make your sound louder? Every time I get an ad in one of your videos it's much louder than the video. Sorry, it's a super small thing.
I can't do anything about the audio levels of the ads dude
@@2011manchu he's saying your audio is quieter than normal
@@acethemain7776 I see
Good video and I usually agree with your viewpoint.
realy unteresting hearing your thoughts on this I'm more of a pve player I'm not good at pvp at all and I try to improve sometimes but just prefer the pve sandbox do I want better matchmaking so I'm not curbstomped and always looking at my 0.2 kda all the time maybe but at the same time when I see that kda going up slowly (it used to be 0.1) I realise that I am slowly slowly improving and getting a better feel for the environment I also know I have a slightly odd perspective of when I get beaten down I get annoyed then look at what I can do to improve and I also know I just go into pvp to mess around or to finish catalyst quests for exotics so matchmaking while not perfect I coulden't really care if it changes or not.
sorry for the long and confusing coment.
Damnit, Grant.
I legit had this conversation with someone who was a casual and hated pvp, and it's like dude, but you come to me or my friends or anyone u can to get carried, get better if you really cared man
So i am a casual bot and i am not playing because i don't enjoy or i don't enjoy because i don't play enough?
It is quite unclear.
Could very well be both. The better you get at anything the more it becomes
I think hamburgers and cheeseburgers work well with fries
I know this is irrelevant to the video but SOLAR 3.0 is worth than void 3.0. Being able to dodge and get your health back is ridiculous or wearing a helmet that heals you in ever encounter.
People forget that for trials to be fun, someone have to not be having fun. For casuals to have fun, they usually have to be beating casuals, which means casuals are still losing, which fuels the twitter warriors. Even if sbmm is added, the better team will still win and the worse team will lose. Trials can never be perfect because of this and people need to find peace with that.
Don't worry no one was worried
Woah woah woah that steak metaphor is totally off base it is very possible to cook multiple steaks different temps.
I said it's hyperbolic for a reason
I just wish Trials was Freelance every week. I only like teaming up with friends, but all of my friends are very casual PvP players. ALSO CAN WE GET SOME DEDICATED SERVERS
3:15 You say you only play against cheaters, but this gameplay proves you wrong. your only intention is to stomp us noobs because you’re scared to play people your own skill.
description says diablo 2.
Bungie stated "Trials will be the pinnacle end game pvp content." I do find it funny how the casuals want it to be a handout. If you want the flawless pool loot, then you got to at least put in a few hours and get better. Personally, when I watch these streamers doing carrys I'm not there for the raffle, but rather watching how they play the map. I think if the casuals would watch the streams with the intent on improving/learning rather than winning a raffle, they could go flawless on their own.
thats why I hate getting carried in some matches because I want to do my part
The problem with destiny 2 pvp is the sheer amount of cheese that exists.
Honestly, I don’t find destiny to be skillful for a pvp aspect simply because of the reliance of abilities and meta weapons and builds. It doesn’t make me think that something needs to be done and I just simply won’t play pvp. I just don’t tend to enjoy it because I don’t want to feel restricted with certain things to be good. Destiny is just a different type of fps that I just can’t pvp in. I used to play battlefield 3/4 all the time because I could use any weapon in the game and still dominate due to a lot of being based on how well I could aim and how I position myself. Now that I’ve been working a lot and not having too much time with games I understand I won’t be able to keep up with certain people nor do I have the energy so I just left competitive stuff. I think I’ve grown contempt with the fact that I have skill in games but I’ll never be able to keep up with others simply because life happened and I have more important things.
all i know is i will continue to complain about fusions and abilities that do the work for you. hand cannon sniper and healing nades is all i need.
I come from a fight game background too and I think it's absurd that D2 pvp players think they should be playing with bronzies every day. Trials shouldn't be easy by any means. I can tune into a great streamer and always see them winning every match. I just don't get it.
All points valid. But man the sandbox itself just feels so crappy to play in general. All of the changes can happen but we’ll have to still have to try to kill infinitely healing guardians.
love your content homie
I plap pvp alot, I'm average at best
I know I can be better, I don't play trials solely because my light level.
I'd prefer to be the highest light possible so I can be equal to my opponents for the most part.
Lanza?
whats even worse with the whole service streamer thing, especially this weekend with the bugged trials, is that alot of these guys who usually dominate the twitch directory were down at gcx. so alot of these casual players complaining about it weren't even matching them. the same ones asking for sbmm are inherently trying to make the game competitive while we have a watered down comp now because of these SAME casuals. blows my fucking mind.