Ford Model A ammeter- How to prevent a fire in your Model A
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- The Ford Model A ammeter (amp meter) is at the center of the Model A electrical system. Today, Model A Ford mechanic Paul Shinn shows you how to modify the typical reproduction ammeter to make it safer, and as a bonus, how to make it look more like an original.
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Hi Paul, very neat, that amp meter is something that thru history has caused many vehicles to go on fire extremely easy, every time that I see your videos I stick like glue until the end, you make magic to the video and keep us looking for more, congratulations, muchas gracias señor, you are going to make us master technician on model A fords, from the endless summer paradise Puerto Rico Jesus Torres.
Hi Paul, great advice! I am not an electrically inclined person, not that I can't do some electrical diagnostics, I'm just not as good at it as I would like to be. As always, a joy to watch and learn, thanks. Hope everyone has a great weekend, say hi to Bob and Model T.
Will do , thank you!
Another Excellent video, Paul. Great safety tip. I'll take a look at mine and make the needed mod soon. I was so glad to see that Model "T" has recovered and is well again! Our prayers were answered! You guys are a great asset to our Model A/RUclips community! Have a great weekend!
Cheers and 73,
de Benton w4jba
Thank you Benton! 73, OM
Thanks for another great video, Paul. I know there’s a reproduction in my car now, but I went out to my shop to look in my stash, and I think I found an original! Now to see if it works………..
I hope so!
I do have a repop meter so far so good if I had known that then (when I replaced it) I would have checked it. I think I’ll check it when I have the speedometer out to lube it. Great information Paul, thanks for the video friend.
Brilliant advice thank you.
I always thought old Bert was "having a say"
Turns out the 70s ammeter had issues. Eh...no horn or lights...and no go.
Beaut fix.
Cheers.
How did I miss this video 7 months ago? Thanks Paul. excellent video as always. I'm going to check my soldering iron. I'm not sure that I've got one that heats up enough.
If you ever want a ammeter fixed up, I'll do it for you for nothin!
@@ModelA Thank you!
I gotta tell you Paul, that on days like today and most of the summer here, at or above 105 degrees F without heat index, getting into a Modal A is torture. We probably know where the (new) stuff is made. As usual, another great on How To Do It video.
Yep. Same place that made a certain virus perhaps?
Paul, good video. Thank you for taking a sorry Model A part and making it less sorry and SAFER.
You bet Tim!
Thanks a lot, Paul. I’ll have to watch this video twice, maybe three times. I was mesmerized by the Fluke meter. Remember back in chem lab when your lab partner happened to wear that low cut T shirt?
I purchased my “go to“ Fluke in the mid 1970s. It’s still in use today. Battery changes, required yearly certifications, and one trip to Fluke for a repair for which it really couldn’t be faulted. A shining example of you get what you pay for.
As a side note - I trust everyone is carrying a fire extinguisher in their A. If the extinguisher gauge reads zero, that’s not good. Don’t laugh.
Thanks Myrl!! Oh, yea... I remember her.... I married her! hahaaa!
Outstanding tech info and surprisingly easy fix / modification.
That just happened to me today. Can't believe there's a video for it. Thanks Paul.
I really appreciate all the videos you make for the Model A. My Grandpa and I are fixing one up and your videos are the best ! My Grandpa almost thinks I know what I'm doing ! 😀😀😀 Just Kidding 🤓 We really enjoy your videos.
Ah the Greenie. Retired TV station station engineer. I started my career wearing a greenie in my shirt pocket because equipment needed adjustments every time you walked past it. By the time I retired four years ago most equipment is software driven. Yes the greenie now does it best work as a scrapper.📺
I used to give greenies to my colleagues for Christmas. hahaa!!
Thanks for all your awesome videos. I need to replace the ammeter in my 30 and now thanks to you I know how to make it safe.
Excellent!!
Another excellent video, Paul. Great safety tip. Altho I have LED lights and don't have any large draws thru the ammeter, it certainly is a worthwhile project to "improve" a repo ammeter. Now I have a couple of projects for today on a couple of spare ammeters. Unfortunately I have already painted them black in the past so first I need to remove some paint. Thanks again.
You're welcome Dennis!
What important information. Had no idea. 31 45B.
Another great subject! Your video’s are so well done with very Useful information.
Thanks Steve B
Thank you kindly!
Adding to my previous comment, according to your information, one of the ammeters I found in my stash is an original and works. The box it was in was very old , but not original. A mild cleaning and it will be as good as new. Also, one of the 3 reproductions I have seems to be an unused much older version in it’s original box and much to my surprise, you could plainly see through the glass that the terminal bolt heads are already soldered. If that was done when it was made or later, I don’t know. Thanks.
Neat! Thanks Bill.
Good video as always. I cannot solder as well as you when using a pencil tip, I prefer a wedge tip. The use of a higher than normal iron tip is certainly the correct approach.
Don W
Excellent tech video. Something anyone can accomplish and a proper explanation of why it is being done along with the appropriate warnings about overheating the piece. Covered all the bases.
Thank you!
Nice little project I know what I’m doing this weekend now
Right on
Great Video. I had the same issue on my 1940 Farmall A when I first installed the control box and Amp Meter(didnt have one) I I put a 30Amp "newer" version and I kept smelling something that I traced back to the meter, so I purchased a vintage all brass 20Amp that was close to open already.
Thanks for sharing
Just took apart a 20 amp ammeter. Instead of fast/hot solder just undo the two nuts holding the insulators to the back of the gauge. The complete metal piece with the needle will come out and then you can solder without worrying about melting the insulators. Now you can use your $19.00 Walmart soldering iron.
I'm just trying to keep it simple.
Very good, Paul. Interesting and something most anyone can do. I think you're right about just needing to see if it's charging or not and leaving it at that. But I guess back in the day having an actual charge figure was more important than it is now.
I recall how Chrysler products always had ammeters rather than a voltmeter. But when I thought about it, 35 amps running under a dashboard is a lot of juice. Years back my brother lost a beautiful '72 Barracuda due to an uncontrollable dashboard fire that I'm sure directly related to the high amps running under the dashboard. As alternators increased in amperages over the years Chrysler stopped using ammeters in favor of voltmeters. Imagine 150 amps or so running under the dash. Jeez!
An inline fuse might have saved that Cuda
@@ModelA I always thought that the factory installed fusible links took care of that. We couldn't investigate the cause as the dash was so burnt and melted. It happened when my brother was shopping in a store, and it was parked in a metered space on Main Street in that city. The police gave him a very limited time to remove the car, so he just had it towed off to the junkyard. Something we'd never do now because they have become so rare.
Hi Paul great enthusiasm and info thanks by the way across the pond we Say Sooolllder not solder hilarious … enjoy your model A’s
You proper folks also say funny things like "aluminum"!
Had one short out on the Tudor when I was about 19 years old, scared the bajeebers out of me seeing that smoke coming out of the dash panel. Turned out the Bakelite knurled nuts had loosened up. Good video thanks, and yes don't touch that needle I swear it is made out of aluminum foil super easy to booger it up. I learned that luckily on a repop so no big deal. I assume originals were made with a better quality material.
Thanks Paul!
Everything back then was made of better material. Things were relatively expensive and people expected them to last.
Good tip, as always. I have another project now. I use a 20 0 20 on my A with an altenator. I was told to use a 30 0 30. Thanks for straightening that out. Never did make sense to me.
You're good!
Paul, spent the day recovering from 18 hours on the lake... just watched the video and I'm fighting the urge to go check my ammeter at 0040 hrs! Thanks for another great video!
Be safe.
That's a long time to be skinnydipping!
Paul!!!, that's how we roll in Texas!
Awesome!! I wanted to skinnydip in that river at the park in Bandera where we had lunch. Tina wouldn't let me.
@@ModelA , maybe you two should have a chat... it ain't illegal until your caught!!! LOL
Thank you Paul! Great info. Mine is from the 70s. I'll have a closer look at it.
Neat & useful tip. Bummer the design got so cheap. But there must be a demand for such a low cost option.
I guess so
Thanks, Paul. Great instructions! My first encounter was with the ammeter terminals that someone had just stripped to bare wire and crimped on terminals sold at any auto parts house. Nothing soldered, mis-matched wire size to terminals and the screws on the back of the ammeter were only finger tight. Lots of resistance and HEAT..also due to the resistance the battery was not given the opportunity to sink the charge from the generator causing it to put out 20+ volts. I am going to take mine apart first chance I get and solder. Thanks !
That sounds like a recipe for disaster! Glad you caught it.
Paul your engineering prowess is showing, excellent instructor video and if implemented should prevent that dash fire from poor quality ammeters. Has anyone looked into making fusible link for the model-A to open in the event of a starter and/or alternator shorting?
I wouldn't use a fusible link on anything, it is basically a smaller gauge wire burning up!
Well, people usually install the aftermarket fuse blocks in Model As these days. That helps.
Short and sweet video Paul. We hope to send a picture of us with our ‘30 Tudor “Norm” for your garage wall Lol!! Your friends from upstate NY Annie & Lenny
If you do, I will cherish it!
Well Paul I pulled the trigger today bought a 1930 Deluxe coupe and I will send you a pic and see what you and T think will pick it up Monday. 3-6 th 2023
Excellent!!
Paul, great video. I pulled my ammeter and found char. In searching for a replacement I found Westach Gauges. I ordered one of their custom-built Model A 30-0-30 ammeters. Looks well built and much better quality.
Tested it with my DC power source and it has been correctly calibrated.
I measured the resistance across it and found 0.1 ohms. Per your video that is just under half of what alarmed you, necessitating the overhaul and soldering. The result was a dramatic reduction in resistance by multiple orders of magnitude.
I am wondering your opinion on 0.1 ohms. Is it too much? Should in be worried?
Mac in the Smoky Mountains
Hey Mac. That's just fine! Way better for sure.
I appreciate staying original. Will judges ding you for an Alternator. And also would they judge you for replacing your ammeter with a voltmeter. Much safer but not original. Love your channel.
Another electrical improvement is electronic voltage regulation. A low battery is greeted with a robust charge but ovevoltage results in a sharp smooth reduction of unnecessary power. Everything lasts longer.
Thanks that is useful 👍
Glad to help, Mark!
Congrat from Brasil.
Gracias!!
GREAT IDEA!!!
Thank you! 😊
Alright, looks like I have something to do xD
Mine never showed zero (even with the battery disconnected), I never knew you could even adjust em.
Also: Where does one find these "judging standards"? I know I'm faaar away from a fine-point car, but it might be fun to browse through one of these just for kicks
How is the engine rebuild coming along? Have you gotten the block boiled and magnafluxed yet to check for cracks?
The Judging Standards are available from MAFCA directly.
@@skategeezer1810 I just uploaded a video on the topic last Friday, the block is crack-free.
Hello Paul, new subscriber here, glad to see you’re doing well. Can’t wait for more content!
Welcome aboard! Thank you
Another excellent video. Learn a lot from you. Please keep them coming.
Thanks, will do!
Thanks!
Thank YOU!!
Thank You so much for this video! Indeed very helpful!
That was a scary call! But what about adding Insulator Nuts that hold the wires on? Especially if fuel were to seep around the gas gauge!!!
Just put a split washer under there. done
I've done both now!@@ModelA
Thank you Paul, very very informative. Regards to Model T.
Glad it was helpful!
THANK YOU PAUL: As always a great video with great information to keep us on the road. God Bless.
Just hope it helps someone!
Thanks Paul, we always appreciate the great info!
My pleasure!
Great tips on the soldering of the connections. In anticipation for receiving my 1929 model A sport coupe in a couple weeks. I’m watching as many of your videos as I can. are there any that you suggest I watch more than others? Things again for all your fantastic videos. I know they gonna help me in the future a lot. Thanks
Fred
Watch the troubleshooting one for sure. Maybe just hit the "Ford Model A How To" playlist and let them roll. Welcome to Model A ownership!
Thanks paul,will do
Excellent tip! Us "regular guys" wouldn't have thought if that! 😉
Excellent information Paul
Glad you think so John!
Oh wow! That is great information to know, I had no idea.
Glad it was helpful!
Oh, thanks for the low impedance tip.
You bet!
Super tip
Thanks a lot Dave!
thanks Paul
omg I never knew about this thanks Paul.
5:37 AWESOME TIP!!!!
GREAT VIDEO PAUL. THANK YOU!
Very welcome Michael!
Great video on AMP MERERS.
I've been told not to bend the amp meter clips to hold it in the dash plate. If you try to bend them, you are probably going to break the needle. Instead I've been told to use small amount of silicone and use painter's tape to hold it to the dash plate until dry. What are your thoughts?
Whatever works for you, do it!
very good tip/fix! thanks
Thanks! Paul. Valued information…
Great video. I have a couple of the reproduction 0-20 ammeters. My question, is the a way to fix one that is really shaky? One will even have needle disappear for a bit while driving, and then reappear while idling.
Unless you're a watchmaker, no. If you are, then you can rewind the springs and magnetically tension the fields.
ADD A BATTERY CUT OFF! I just about burnt my 1930 Town Sedan because the amp meter failed. The plastic cap nuts to the amp meter melted, so I don't know if a wire came loose or what really happened. The only A of several without out a battery cut off switch. Lesson learned.... and luckily I got the battery terminal off through the trap door in the floor board!
A fuse is preferred both for safety and cost over a cutoff.
When I was young & dumb, I used a zip tie to fasten my amp meter to the bottom of my dash. ( 57chevy)
You guessed it, it wiggled out & the studs welded themselves to the dash. What a smoke show!
I still have the burnt amp gauge as a reminder. 🤐
Ouch!
Outstanding.. HATE FIRES!!
Agreed
Hi Paul, interesting video and advise. Please clarify for a German: 1.000 Degree, do you mean °F or °Celcius? Best regards Robert
Hahaa! Fahrenheit of course!
Great pointer!
Thanks VB!
Great stuff. How many points would I be docked in a concours if my car was on fire?
Bwahahaa! I laughed so hard, I drooled!!! Thank you for the full belly laugh today.
Excellent video.....THANKS!!!
You are welcome!
Awesome, thank you
Hi again Paul.
I have been lubricating with 3 in 1 oil, WD40 and penetrating fluid the main shaft and "beveled" gears of my oval speedometer. I am able to rotate it with a small screw driver but it is too hard to turn it by hand with a squared tip driver like you used in your video.
I am thinking of taking the main shaft out and any other gears and polish all the parts that I can.
Any suggestions?
Where can I find a schematic diagram of the speedometer?
I watched a helpful video by Jack Bahn but I need more information on how to take it apart.
Would you use 600w oil to lubricate the speedometer cable?
Thanks
Pretty cool!
Great video!
Thanks!
Another good video. I am going to check if my amp meter is one of those you described and if so I will solder it.
Unrelated question to this topic: When you lubricated your speedometer and were able to stabilize the speed reading, did you try to rotate it by hand with the driver tip?
Should the speedometer be loose enough to turn it with your fingers?
Thanks
Yes, it should turn very easily
@@ModelA Thank you , Paul!
Does this work with 6 volt negative ground? Or is it a different kit that might be available?
The ammeter is not polarity sensitive. If you change the frame polarity from positive to negative ground, just reverse the wires on the back of the ammeter.
Hi Paul.
In your Q&A #6 with Dad it was mentioned a knocking noise in the engine that most often comes from the middle main bearing.
It sounds that my engine may be having that issue.
Could I remove and replace the bearings without removing the engine?
I have watch videos where they use "the bearing roll-in" trick.
Thanks
If it is already machined for inserts, then maybe.
I remember at the Twin Cities Model A Ford club where I was a member back in the 80's we made a modification on the generator contacts with a diode to eliminate a potential fire hazard. Is this still done or is there something better?
You might be talking about using a diode i stead of the points on the generator cutout. If so, yes!
hey bommer. your show is cool. james jr generation Z
Thanks James!!
Awesome. I got two originals. 😀
Very cool
Tengo un 1931 ford model A mi pregunta es porque mi 1931 se mueve cuando lo manejo
70s dodge trucks were great for having dash melt downs
Ouch!
Interesting.
Thx Wish my original worked.
Oh, I think I have the same solder station. It seems to last forever. Is it a Weller '51?
I don't know what model it is. All I know is it's OLD! Haha!
Could a new aftermarket ammeter cause a random misfire? I have been chasing one for awhile now.
If there is an intermittent connection, yes it could.
@@ModelA Thank you for responding
Hi Paul I'm busy with a 35 ford ammeter it seems to work differently to the Model A one. It's seems to be more like a clamp tester around the cable. Is there similar issues to the above that I need to worry about?
I have no idea. Don't think I've seen one. This has mostly to do with the cheapo Model A ones
Thanks it was defnitly an insigtfull video.
Good info but there is no way that is not a cold solder joint. I suppose if it starts to heat up maybe it will reflow the solder but then it will probably melt that plastic and short the whole shebang. Better than nothing but there is a good possibility for that joint to crack loose.
No. The solder flowing down between the brass parts means it is not a cold solder joint.
the right fix, but these small solder points will not holt 20+ amps
better solder the whole head of the screw - in multiple atemps, so the plastic don't melt.
I suppose that might be even better!
@@ModelA Or something like spot welding? (like connecting battery cells)
It is a shame, that they build these products so cheap ... and dangerous.
Ojj! Az USA-ban is forrasztani kell?
Thanks Paul, maybe the manufacturer will see this and solder the contacts, but that would cost them maybe a dime so who am I kidding?
Hahahaa! Yea, right. Meanwhile, back in the real world....
👍👍👍😁
Do you know where I can buy an original one?
Without a time machine? Maybe a swap meet. Or ask around your club. Find an old guy missing at least 1 finger who knows his stuff. That's the guy.
@@ModelA thank you
It happened in my model a amp meter got hot?
This should solve that
Wouldn’t it be safer to replace the ammeter with a voltmeter ?
Maybe, but I have never seen a voltmeter small enough to fit in the Model A dash and it would not look 'original'.
I suppose, but an ammeter is original.
As a general rule, I don't like these meters (ammeters). I've had issues with them in the past.
Like what?
Until you showed the simple fix of dropping resistance across the terminals...
Yep, my '68 Plymouth Satellite had an original that got hot! I smelled it before it burst into flames. I bypassed the gauge and never replaced it. Same with another factory gauge.
I never though about modification or repairs to the gauge. Thanks!
Argh! My current vehicle does not have an ammeter! I am resistant to install one. My car does have a volt meter; shocking!
I know, Georg and Gustov are rolling in their graves.