How to measure Thiele Small Parameters using your Sound Card
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- How to measure the Thiele Small parameters using your sound card and Room EQ Wizard.
If you want to learn about DIY Audio : audiojudgement...
If you want to build the measurement jigs: audiojudgement...
Music Credits:
"Werq" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
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As a side note, I had seen by experimenting that the Mms parameter listed from manufacturers is usually close to the derived one via DATs or audio card jigs with REW. Which is useful as we can avoid the sticky added mass method. Just specify mass to DATS along with diameter to get the full test results. Do your own tests of added mass vs spec sheet specified mass methods on few woofers to decide if reliable.
I prefer to just hold the driver in the air with one hand, away from any surface, which can affect Fs and as a result everything else. If it's a large driver, I use a small rope threaded through its mounting holes to suspend it from a step ladder or chair.
Salutari si la multi ani!, ar fi foarte fain sa faci versiuni ale acestor videoclipuri si in limba romana, Marius, cred ca s-ar uita multa lume.
That is exactly what I was looking for, very well presented.
Keep up with the good work!
Salutare 😉!
Nice video, thanks!
Amazing and such a timely tutorial on this , especially if the local indian brands are either not providing complete parameters or none at all
TS params -> winISD -> box-design for low low freq sound - (trying iso-baric for smaller box)
Sd can also be calculated from cone diameter right in REW itself, in the TSP menu where you enter the values. There should be a small calculator icon.
With the UMC202 HD audio interface (cheap second hand unit), I am able to do sweeps at 0.2v without an amplifier. I don't have anything to reference my jig against, so I'm unsure how accurate it is, but I'm very happy with the setup. I did find that with the input gain turned up, the pre-amps would introduce some noise. However, after tweaking settings, I got good results at 0.2v on the speaker terminals with no noise in my measurements. I used a 2 watt 100 ohm metal film resistor and then combined 3 more in parallel for a 33.3 ohm calibration resistor.
For anyone else with the same audio interface, here are my notes:
REW preferences:
- Use "EXCL: " version of output/input devices and do not use REW's built-in volume control
Microphone channels:
- Minimum gain
- INST selected (LINE/INST button pressed in)
- PAD disabled (PAD button pressed outwards)
Output channels:
- Between 3/4 and maximum gain
Input/output connections:
- Use OUTPUT 1(L) not PHONES
- Connection before resistor (Rsense) should be INPUT 1(L)
oh and thank you for the video! your wiring diagram is the prettiest and simplest I saw online
Nice video! A mixed option is to use REW & dats hardware. Allowing a better configuration (sweep duration, level) and the posibility to use the dual mass method ;)
I'm glad, that i purchased the DATS V3😅😅
I like the Dayton reference paper woofer
This is so cool that I just have build one, even though I don't have an immediate need. 😂 I already have all the parts on hand, and 1% tolerance resistors.
WoW ! Just what I was looking for !
Sir, is there any alternate of asus sound card.
Thank you.
Nice content! Indeed, is not the "Effective Area", in the "Manually Entered Values" section of the "Thiele-Small Parameters" modal, the area of the speaker Cone surface? Yet, if it is true, does it also includes the area of the cone Cap and, maybe, the sorround part? I mean, wont the sum of those areas compared to the simple area of the imaginary flat surface of the base of the cone also affect the computed parameters?
I tried both methods (with and without an amp) however my measurements are always way off! I measured 4" speakers (new and old), 8" old woofers and a Kenwood KFC-w110s (with known parameters). And it always measures the Qxx parameters wrong and it almost doubles the Vas! I use the added mass method and I always make tests and measure precisely. I use a uni-t multimeter with about 1 ohm of probe resistance, 50W 8 ohm resistors that are precisely that impedance, I use a jewellery scale that I know is accurate down to the gram. What could be the problem?
I can use the line in of the sound card instead the microphone input? These are always stereo
I am waiting for the Reply from his side too 😢
Yes you can use this. They are not always stereo, but should be. You can measure the ohms to find out using your mm. (see 6mins in). I would recommend against using the amplified jig in case you mess up and blow your on board sound. If you blow a usb sound card, you can replace it pretty easily...
Yes line-in will work. You can verify stereo input by touching the TRS jack and listening, if its in stereo you’ll hear the ground hum corresponding with each side.
Hey Marius,
I highly appreciate your your work.Thank.
Can I make a few suggestions for upcoming video?! I
I like to a video with the Dats V3 Hardware being used, but with two alternative software, ARTA and REW. The DATs software seems rather complicated.
I would like to you improving an speaker that already exist in the software Boxsim from Visaton.
I would like to see measurements of Bluetoothspeakers (because nobody does that, except for rtings).
Cheers
Nik
based on my experience, slightly more powerful speakers, with lower qts, such a system misplaces the resonant frequency of the speaker about 10 hz higher. I wonder what it comes from?
Tried hard but all I saw was USB sound cards with mono microphone jacks.
Do you have links/suggestions, please?
Is it possible to measure resonant frequency of a tweeter using this setup, if yes. How?
When measuring a frequency response curve, can I determine maximum and minimum limits for a pass or fail judgment?
Ótimo vídeo, consegui aferir os parâmetro TS dos meus auto falantes.
Hi! thanks for your Videos and tutorials. I have a 'rookie' question, not directly linked with T/S parameters mesurement. For the calibration of the internal sound card of a computer(desktop or lapto) in REW is it compulsory to do the calibration in short circuit (i.e in loop if I understood correctly) ? Could it be done with a Trrs cable ? I'm planning to begin with simple mesurements with a DA IMM6 on a computer.
Thanks 😀
Hi, I was trying to replicate all step by step and it fail to show up in windows sound panel. Now I have checked all wats wrong , and apearantley - on schematics you showed only three cables connected to stereo jack, while on video you have four cables going out from stereo jack! Please help to fix, Thanks
Would it be helpful to add a resistor between the mic and the one output wire?
My DATS V3 shows Re and Zmin same values. which should not be right? can you help me with that ?
in REW Zmin in higher than Re ( ideally it should be). it also tells you Fmin and F3 in which speaker driver having lowest distortions. which is good :)
How many watts was this 100 ohm resistor?
Hello! Great video! Interested in Xmax measurements! Maximum Displacement! how to measure it! After all, this is an important parameter, and in some sports data it is missing!?
For Xmax you technically need to disassemble the speaker. You need to know the voice coil height and gap height. Xmax is the [(voice coil height) - (gap height)] / 2. This is the Xmax one way for an overhung motor.
Maybe you can say in the videos when you have a discount / promotion for your courses or in the description. I found out by mistake that you have a discount for the basic course.
Since I’m enrolled into udemy promotional program, the prices are set by udemy (not by me). They set promotional prices most of the time.
wait a bit the prices always change
Why not use audio interface instead?
Hey your reference calibration resistor is a 10watt27ohm but all I have is a couple 1watt resistors. I can parallel a maximum of 5 will this be safe ?
1 watt is fine, you don’t need to wire multiples in parallel
i purchased das dv3, but i dont now how to measure high frekvency compresion drivers parameters. please have you any ecplanation
Why do you want to measure the parameters of a tweeter?
I have a 100w 4 om 6.5 sub with zero parameters on the internet. So to build a box i had found this method. My amp allows me to adjust volume and bass. Should i make an amplifier version and do i need to turn bass to the max or to the middle and then play with the volume knob to get right voltage?
You need to bypass any amp equalizer or tone/bass controls. Set it to zero. Depending on your amp that is either in the middle or all the way down
Obrigado Mario 👍🏻
Dayton Audio DATS V3 is well worth the investment.
How to know Le of voice coil?
you could have calculated an enclosure using the three sets of parameters and compare volume and port length to see if the results are similar or vastly different.
The difference would be negligible. 1dbish tops.
Do you think it is possible to use an Audio Interface if my PC does not have the stereo input?
Should work with the amp version. Don't know what exact model of audio interface you have, but I'm guessing that instead of the stereo jack plug, you will probably need dual mono jack plugs.
Thanks 🙏
Hi,
I bought infinity alpha 121W 12 inch sub.
RMS 250w
Fs 33.5
Vas 68
Qts. 0.85
Qes 0.97
Owners manual suggest me to built ported volume of 1.6(45ltr)
And port tuning of 36 Hz
Is it possible to tune the port for 30 Hz is it meaningful to tune a ported box bellow Fs of the driver?
Owners manual also given sealed volume of 40ltres.
As the woofer has lower EBP and higher Qts i am going to built sealed one.
But pls help me to resolve the doubt over ported box question.
While trying softwares to resolve my doubt softweres don't show result for ported box. Because Qts exceeds Qtc of 0.7. Pls help me
You can tune a box below the Fs of a driver. For your particular driver I would go for sealed. Make a box as large as you are comfortable with. The larger the better.
@@AudioJudgement I have gone through most of your videos and it helped me making speaker boxes better. Standing wave video helped me a lot. I will avoid parallel walls for sure. I understand it is also valid not only for the box but also for rooms.
I share the video with my audio friends
Thank you
What do you think of the Dayton reference drivers? Do they sound as good as they say?
I've worked with subwoofers and passive radiators from the reference line. They're definitely above average. Haven't got the chance to make a speaker using a mid-woofer / tweeter from the reference line. I do have in plan to do that as I have the parts already bought. Judging just by the looks, the build quality is top tier, way better than more expensive speakers for sure.
What usb soundcard with stereo mic input do you recomend? I can only find mono ones
Other than the ones mentioned in the video, I don’t know any other. You have to do your own research. Maybe you have a desktop computer. Usually the mic is stereo on the onboard sound card.
@@AudioJudgement you mentioned that the axagon sound card geta bad results. Will is still work fine enough for impedance for crossover design?
I would recommend you to look for another sound card
never looked into the DATS, as i dont have a need for it, but 130usd is way cheaper than i expected
I can generally smell the resonant frequency of any speaker
If that fails, I use DATS
is there a DATS v2 or 3 teardown?? has some one Pics from the pcb/ chipset?? I bet my ass the dats youses a standart (soundcard) chipset with something like a lm386 at 5v to make .2v. If we know the chipset we can use the dats software. Or we can find a cheap usb sounddongle that we can mod with a lm386 and power over usb.
It so cheap so i would simply just purchase the DATS v3 and dats it!
@@champipy the cheapes thats in my space is 180euro! thats not cheap for me. A 10 -15dollar soundcard with a 0.50euro lm386 and some resistors ans jacks, thats 12-17 euro. thats 10x cheaper.
CSL USB 7.1 Soundkarte extern (8-Kanal) is that en option?!?! it has AUX in thats must by 2 channel. and it has 2 mic inputs mic 1 and mic 2 is only 18€
Buy one and let us know? 😊
you get bulky bro from 3 years ago :D