I think that’s why the Dragonborn can sit in shors throne he can sit in every throne from solitude to Raven rock all the thrones are able to be sit upon but im pretty sure the last Dragonborn is called ysmir by the greybreards just like talos was so does that mean is the Dragonborn a reincarnate talos or is he this shezzarine or unless the grey beards are too dumb to remember who shor is
@@thorodinsson5684 "he can sit in every throne from solitude to Raven rock all the thrones are able to be sit upon " Yeah, but they're just normal thrones. In Shivering Isles, you can't sit upon Sheogorath throne before becoming Sheogorath yourself. People assume that's the same with Shor.
@@sheogorath6834 will the god of jokes and cheese send the god of thunder a small loan of a million cheeses and I’ll let you weld mjolnir the next time someone refuses your trials 😂
It is theorized that all the main characters throughout the Elder Scrolls were the Shezzarine and all reincarnations respectively. This is why all the characters become legendary, mythic, and folklorish or obscure by the events of the next installment. As Shezzarine, he or she is destined to be remembered, but paradoxically forgotten at the same time.
I like how the Nords have a selection of exalted "testing" gods included in their mythos. It's something they share in common with the Dunmer who have their own "House of Troubles". 2 races who have famously clashed with each other many times over their mutual history have since learned to extol the virtue of "Know Thy Enemy".
At the end of the day, the Nords and Dunmer would make great allies were they to set aside their hatred of one another. Nords are not mongrel dogs of the empire and Dunmer are not filthy piss elves.
My interpretation on the whole “Who taught the Thu’um” was that Kyne blessed mortals with the ability to use the Thu’um, but they still had to learn how to actually use it hence where Paarthurnax comes in to teach them, as it would be this time he’d turn against Alduin and be tasked by the Gods to help mortals against them.
The Old Nord Gods of Skyrim have got to be my favorite pantheon in The Elder Scrolls. I never really considered creating a character that worships them over the 8(9) Divines, but I may try that now that I've seen this lore video. So thanks for giving me a new character idea for my next playthrough.
Make sure to grab the Wintersun mod! It has an in-depth worshipping system that gives you benefits depending on the God. There's even an animal gods version that focuses on the animal totems, and allows you to change what benefits you receive with every time you play.
Thing is, I don't think the Stormcloaks are all at the same level in their hatred of elves. Rolff Stone-Fist, brother of Galmar, absolutely despises the Dunmer, but while most people in Windhelm aren't a fan of the Dunmer, he is the only one who openly harasses them in their own part of town. Some of the nords, like Brunwulf Free Winter, mongrel dog of the Empire he is, don't hate elves at all. Were a high elf or really any of the non-Nord races to help the Stormcloaks, I don't think they would be treated poorly. In fact, I've even played through the Stormcloak questline as an Argonian to see what would happen, and they treat you exactly the same as they would a Nord character. When joining, Galmar asks "why's an (insert race, or if an Imperial or Nord, foreigner) want to fight for Skyrim?" and when you ask if they only take Nords, he will say in no uncertain terms that they really don't care about your race, "You mistake me, I'm not saying no. Just wondering about your intentions. We're not looking for sellswords, The Stormcloaks need dedicated men and women who are devoted to the cause and willing to die for it." and then if you answer his question that the Empire has wronged you (i.e. nearly having your head cut off at Helgen) he says, "Can't fault anyone for that! As long as you hate the Empire as much as I do, that I can work with." From their perspective, the Empire and their Thalmor puppetmasters are the enemy, not any particular race. I came to the conclusion while doing my own digging that it's non-Stormcloaks like Galmar who are outwardly racist towards Khajiit, Dunmer and Argonians, not the Stormcloak command. It's just, with their war on the Empire they legitimately do not have the manpower to work on improving the Argonian Assemblage (or building them all actual houses) or the Gray Quarter. Once the war is over and Skyrim's economy recovers, such things may change, it's just that Bethesda didn't think about implementing that sort of thing because they're Bethesda.
Gelebor also don't mention Alduin when he mentions every names of "Akatosh", and Alduin himself states that he's the first born of him (meaning they're separate entities).
Could be an oversoul situation, like Talos. 3 spirits, same dude. Also could just be a case of creation (anti-anti creation specifically, not creation in the normal sense)
@@partnax5629 Alduin himself refers to himself as the First Born son of The Dragon God. And the Dragons themselves refer to their race as Children of Akatosh. The Dude or Dragon rather is at best a secondary member of the Elder Scrolls Pantheon. As are his lesser siblings.
@@sheogorath6834 Nope, Alduin literally predates Akatosh. He's the Nordic version of Auri-El. Remember Akatosh is a combination of Shor/Lorkhan and Alduin/Auri-El. The same why the Nords see Alduin as a devil, the Elves see Lorkhan as a devil. The Time God is the enemy in the Nordic Pantheon. It's stated that Shor and Alduin fought at the beginning of time aka the Dawn Era during the war between Humans and Elves.
Brothers and sisters are natural enemies. Just like Nords and Orcs Or Nords and Falmer Or Nords and Dwemer Or Nords and Altmer Or Nords and Neads Or Nords and other Nords! Dam Nords! They ruined Skyrim for the Nords!
If Ysmir and the Shezzarine are the same thing, and represent an avatar of Lorkhan, does that also just mean that Talos is also Lorkhan as well? Is that maybe an additional layer to why the Aldmeri are so vehement in their opposition to Talos worship. Because if Talos = Lorkhan it would mean that all of a sudden the absolute enemy deity within elven mythology was granted a Seat amongst the Divines. And on a deeper level it would mean that a manifestation of the deity who dragged the Aedra from grace was seated amongst them yet again. Man, it sure would have been cool for that to be explored anywhere in the dang games, huh.
The way I interpreted it, I saw Herma-Mora (Hermaeus Mora) secretly and covertly taught the Thu’um first to Miraak, before Kyne could teach it to Paarthurnax. Because Herma-Mora is the “God of forbidden knowledge, fates, & memories”, it would make sense the actual truth and history would be hidden, obscured, or forgotten. Since he is considered a “demon” by most, any records of him actually teaching the Thu’um first to humanity would have been destroyed or confiscated.
I suspect it was the other way around. As we see when Herma-Mora finally gets the secrets of the Skaal, he does not possess knowledge inherently but rather hoards it. Therefore, it is more likely that Miraak gave Herma-Mora the secrets of the Thu'um in exchange for power and access to Apocrypha. While mortals did not learn the thu'um until taught by Kyne/Paarthurnax, Miraak was dragonborn, and so already possessed the gift and was surrounded by dragons through which he could learn.
the Dragonborn expansion tells us that knowledge can be withheld from Mora's reach, so either they already knew about the Thu'um or someone (a dragon priest perhaps) told them.
I really like that the different cultures actually have different interpretations of the gods. It's a fun way to do "the gods are real and you can prove it" while maintaining distinct cultural viewpoints. And whose to say a being like Stendarr and Stuhn is even a different interpretation? It could just be the way that particular Aedra chose to present to different peoples. Afterall, Stendarr is a god of mercy and it could be argued that from a classical Nord perspective holding an enemy ransom is more merciful than outright killing them (many Nords want to die gloriously, I know, but they don't seem anymore concerned with rushing to death in general. Especially compared to Orcs, who basically have to die young or become nomads looking to die in battle).
Njord is actually a nordic deity. Njord, or Njördr, is the norse Vanir god of the sea, given to the Aesir gods as a hostage, at home in Noatun, a city made out of ships, husband to Skadi, and apparently called upon by sailors and fishers. I think, there's a good chance, that he was at least partly the inspiration for Stuhn. If I understand it right, while the dragons of TES appear to be minor Aedra and lack a conventional gender, it seems that all the Dovah are considered to be male. If they were female, they wouldn't be Dovah, but Jill. I think, if you were to take the statement, that the Thu'um was taught to the Nord through Kynes daughters, to be literal, it'd either have to be, that Paarthurnax was the first Dragon to turn, but that the Thu'um was mainly taught by the Jill, or, what seems more likely to me, that the first men to be taught the Thu'um by Paarthurnax (possibly on behalf of Kyne), were priestesses of, or otherwise favoured by, Kyne. Or maybe she used someone like priestesses dedicated to her, who could be referred to as her daughters, to bestow the blessing of understanding upon those who would become the first tongues. In my opinion, that wouldn't even be that absurd. Since Dovahzul functions entirely different, I think it quite plausible, that Kyne could've instructed Paarthurnax, who had a change of heart and pitied the races of man, to teach the Thu'um to humans, and then blessed the first tongues with a better understanding of things, so they could learn the Thu'um in a shorter amount of time, and these first tongues then taught other humans, who didn't have this blessing of understanding, since the first tongues now understood both the meaning of the tongue of the timeless dragons and that of man, who are doomed to die, and therefore probably had an easier time explaining these concepts of the immortal to the mortals. Does that make sense? If not, let's try it this way: we are told, that to be able to use the Thu'um, one must be able to grasp the _entirety_ of a concept, in all its facets, so to breathe fire, for example, you have to understand the concept of fire. That's why Paarthurnax couldn't teach the Dragonfall shout: dragons would have a hard time learning it, if they are even able to in the first place, because dragons are beings outside of time, they are more or less immortal beings, and the Dragonfall shout forces them to experience mortality, a concept entirely alien to them. Similarly are humans likely unable to learn the shout that Alduin used to revive the other dragons, because they, as a mortal race, have a hard time grasping the meaning, the concept of timelessness and immortality in its entirety.
I have always found it a little ironic that despite the Orcs being one of the Nords most ancient foes the Nords have historically had the most alliances with the Orcs, at least when it comes to the non-manish races anyway. In the First Era Wulfharth made an alliance with the Eastern Orcs for the Battle of Red Mountain, in the Second Era the Fildgor and Stormfist clan rallied an army of Orcs, and the Third Era Nord warriors with Orc mercenaries invaded House Redoran territory. Except for the Ebonheart Pact, I cant other alliances with Nords and Dunmer example, maybe this is just a case of real recognizes real? Still find it strange that two races that are ancient enemies and are known to hold grudges, would ally themselves that often, though I guess when it comes to the Mer/Beast Folk the Nords do share the most common ground with the Orcs.
I just assumed Malaketh was called mountian fart because the nords thought what Boethiah did to him was hilarious. I may not know a ton of the expanded lore, but i think the furries said Boethiah was like a sibling to Shor or something, and that was payback on his behalf?
I’d need to reread some things but I vividly remember that Boethiah was in love with or at least felt a connection to Shor. Honestly Boethiah seems like an unsung hero the mankind for avenging Shors death.
Yes, I would love to do videos on the pantheons of all races, I will probably do the Aldmeri pantheon next, then the Imperial one. And afterwards do the Dunmer or Yokudan ones. Also talking about the Dragon Cult of Skyrim in detail would be another video lol
I am gonna say because the in universe lore says only Shor can sit upon his throne, and we can sit on said throne. The Last Dragonborn at the very least is the Shezzarine.
Lol so Skyrim has such a shortage of smart Nords that the character Njord had to flat out be fan fiction. Also for LDB to be a Shezzarine he would have to Certainly be a man as opposed to getting his dragon soul with the blessing of Akatosh who protects men and mer
@@jackagonis9302 Big If bro. That would make shor the only god with a personality. The others just passively let him run circles around them lol. Why steal power from Akatosh. To empower a mortal anyway? What about Shor's own divine powers or the power of the other living Aedra who are sympathetic to mankind. Why can't they empower a mortal? These are rhetorical questions by the way. I don't expect anyone to know for sure.
It's also possible that Akatosh imbued a Shezzarine with the dragon blood in order to bring Alduin back to heel. Shezzarines are pretty well known to get shit done, and being a dragonborn is almost necessary to defeating the army of dragons Alduin was sure to raise.
I always assumed just Wulfharth was the only Shezzarine as I don't believe Shor would come back as multiple avatars who would quarrel with each other I also doubt the Dragonborn is a Shezzarine because if he was a aspect of Shor, Tsun would have definitely noticed
My first experience with Elder Scrolls was the original Skyrim debut trailer back in the day, so I have a soft spot for all things Nord (plus, most Elves just make themselves extremely unlikeable). So it’s nice to see a video containing this knowledge.
I just thought of something awesome. What if the Shezarrine is just the Champion of Shor's will, like how the Nerevarine is the Champion of Azura's will? If so, then Akatosh or rather the Akatosh/Alduine could be the Champion of Auriel's will, and Alduin could be an Akatosh. Another thought is that the Nords could literally have been Snow Elves that were turned into Men during the Dawn Era thanks to Arkay's actions, and these could have been Snow Elves that eschewed Auriel for Shor. Since Auriel created the Elves and they were cursed to mortality by Shor's actions, Ariel could have created Akatoshes, literally 1000 year world destroyers, to destroy the mortal world thus ending the kalpa and freeing the Elves from mortality.
They should have made the Nords of Skyrim more tradtional and make the Stormcloacks more of an traditonalist faction rather than the lame racist ploit it is now.
@@demcurvs Issue is that the Stormcloacks appeal to almost no-one in the Elder Scrolls community because their viewed as racist. As a result everyone goes imperial almost all of the time which is lame. They should have either made the Stormcloacks more redeemable or the Imperials worse. First option would probably be best.
I consider The dragonborn to the synthesis of kynes gift the walking covenant of akatosh and an incarnation of shor The embody the breath of kyne the soul of a dragon and the will of lorkhan to protect the current iteration of the mundus and the tower, but what do i know?
If Alduin is akatosh who created the dragons? I assumed alduin weren’t the same being, and parthuunax I believed was his brother. But if alduin is akatosh I guess that would make sense since he can resurrect the dragons at the burial spots
TES Gods and Pantheons are so confusing. For example, are Lorkhan and Shor the same person? Are Akatosh and Auriel the same person (and Alduin?) If so, then why would Pelinal be quoted saying that Shor and Akatosh are allies who share the same madness, while Auriel and Lorkhan are sworn enemies who hate eachother. The most likely theory is that they really are all different persons, because they all truly do appear and do different things, that being said, Shor and Lorkhan seemingly appear to be the same person. Whereas Alduin, Akatosh, and Alduin do not appear to be the same person.
I'd like to point out that the war criminal Tiber Septim was a Breton that looked enough like a Nord to pass as one. And Ysgramor might have played wack the mole with the wrong race of mer too
Me: Hehe poopoo rock 😂 Also me: so does the fart cause an echo in the mountain. A reoccurring fart? Is he the farter or fartee? Does Trinimac give indigestion? 🤔
I often wondered if if the first era or second era the Nords fought countless wars losing hundreds of thousands for centuries against the Orcs. Afterall the Orcs inhabited skyrim before the Nords. So ergo the Nords had to take some of their territory from them
I got a question hope someone can answer me is there a god in skyrim that represents freedom I been looking this up a can't really find an answer can someone hopefully answer this ?
don't let an old norse specialist /nerd hear you pronounce that name: Njórd, or Njörðr as is the old norse spelling... he is the lord of the vanir and the father of Freyr and Freja. god of the sea ;) that dude there is named after this old norse god.
alduin himself say that he is the firstborn of akatosh and it is known that dragons are the children of akatosh, it may be a jump in logic but kyne being the goddess of wind and said to have been at the throat of the world which is literally referred to as mother wind by the dragons says that dragons are the children of kyne and akatosh, alduin and akatosh are different as accepted by most nords, imperial schollars assume that since they had akatosh that old nords just named him something else to suit their needs, i know you know this because i read it off the wiki where you got most of your script from, i was reading it and watching at the same time. too many of your sentences were word for word from the wiki, if you are going to make a lore video be sure to include all the info not just the parts that you feel like, yes you made a small reference to the misconception between the two ideologies but you presented it in a way that make the opposite seem like fact and didnt even mention that the imperials were the ones that assumed they were the same being, you said that the nords started to think they may have been seperate even thought the ancient ones claimed they were the same, quit trying to confuse people
Atheist characters in setting with literal magic and obvious proof of the existent of the divine are either pretty compelling or insufferably annoying.
@@MoaRider 😂 I’m just expanding my imagination through my character. She’s not atheist, but has a higher sense of spiritual awareness in which sees the world incomplete. Though, despite the accounts of 8 to 9 so called divines, she questions it amid fundamental clauses that she tries to answer: there has to be 1 supreme deity.
Played it today for the first time. I've played more than 5 hours but still can't enjoy it. Just the loading screen on every door makes me sick. Darksiders much more better
Which kingdom? I find it bizarre the Nords thought all the kingdoms of the snow elves deserved it and not just the kingdom in northeast skyrim. There were 5 kingdoms of snow elves in all. 4 in skyrim 1 in Soltheim.
@@noahtylerpritchett2682 there was one survivor i think? I'm pretty sure to them a snow elf was a snow elf this is a pretty savage universe after all xD
@@udahfickt whenever I see people try to justify genocide I think of the hamas and idf trying to genocide jews and palestinians respectively And so even In fiction when I see a race implied they deserved a genocide I cringe.
Herma-Mora being a rabbit would makes sense considering there's a stat that tracks how many bunnies you've slaughtered
"So you guys worship Kynareth?"
"Kyne, not Kynareth"
"Aren't they the same god?"
"Is a treehouse the same as the Blue Palace?"
"Fair enough"
It is though...
@@HiAgainTheNameIsStillAyleno 🗿
In Skyrim the Dragonborn can sit on Shors throne which is one of the reasons people thing the last Dragonborn is shezzarine
they probably are, alongside the other chad shezarrines like Pelinal Whitestrake
I think that’s why the Dragonborn can sit in shors throne he can sit in every throne from solitude to Raven rock all the thrones are able to be sit upon but im pretty sure the last Dragonborn is called ysmir by the greybreards just like talos was so does that mean is the Dragonborn a reincarnate talos or is he this shezzarine or unless the grey beards are too dumb to remember who shor is
@@thorodinsson5684 "he can sit in every throne from solitude to Raven rock all the thrones are able to be sit upon " Yeah, but they're just normal thrones.
In Shivering Isles, you can't sit upon Sheogorath throne before becoming Sheogorath yourself. People assume that's the same with Shor.
@@sheogorath6834 will the god of jokes and cheese send the god of thunder a small loan of a million cheeses and I’ll let you weld mjolnir the next time someone refuses your trials 😂
It is theorized that all the main characters throughout the Elder Scrolls were the Shezzarine and all reincarnations respectively. This is why all the characters become legendary, mythic, and folklorish or obscure by the events of the next installment. As Shezzarine, he or she is destined to be remembered, but paradoxically forgotten at the same time.
I like how the Nords have a selection of exalted "testing" gods included in their mythos. It's something they share in common with the Dunmer who have their own "House of Troubles". 2 races who have famously clashed with each other many times over their mutual history have since learned to extol the virtue of "Know Thy Enemy".
At the end of the day, the Nords and Dunmer would make great allies were they to set aside their hatred of one another. Nords are not mongrel dogs of the empire and Dunmer are not filthy piss elves.
@@lsswappedcessnaas much as I dislike ESO atleast they did form an alliance there
My interpretation on the whole “Who taught the Thu’um” was that Kyne blessed mortals with the ability to use the Thu’um, but they still had to learn how to actually use it hence where Paarthurnax comes in to teach them, as it would be this time he’d turn against Alduin and be tasked by the Gods to help mortals against them.
I like this idea. It brings both stories together nicely.
The Old Nord Gods of Skyrim have got to be my favorite pantheon in The Elder Scrolls. I never really considered creating a character that worships them over the 8(9) Divines, but I may try that now that I've seen this lore video. So thanks for giving me a new character idea for my next playthrough.
Make sure to grab the Wintersun mod! It has an in-depth worshipping system that gives you benefits depending on the God. There's even an animal gods version that focuses on the animal totems, and allows you to change what benefits you receive with every time you play.
Made a high elf on my first play through and thought “storm cloaks are cool” then joined them and slowly realized they hate me…
I mean, to be entirely fair, High Elf racism is much worse than Nord racism.
Thing is, I don't think the Stormcloaks are all at the same level in their hatred of elves. Rolff Stone-Fist, brother of Galmar, absolutely despises the Dunmer, but while most people in Windhelm aren't a fan of the Dunmer, he is the only one who openly harasses them in their own part of town. Some of the nords, like Brunwulf Free Winter, mongrel dog of the Empire he is, don't hate elves at all.
Were a high elf or really any of the non-Nord races to help the Stormcloaks, I don't think they would be treated poorly. In fact, I've even played through the Stormcloak questline as an Argonian to see what would happen, and they treat you exactly the same as they would a Nord character. When joining, Galmar asks "why's an (insert race, or if an Imperial or Nord, foreigner) want to fight for Skyrim?" and when you ask if they only take Nords, he will say in no uncertain terms that they really don't care about your race, "You mistake me, I'm not saying no. Just wondering about your intentions. We're not looking for sellswords, The Stormcloaks need dedicated men and women who are devoted to the cause and willing to die for it." and then if you answer his question that the Empire has wronged you (i.e. nearly having your head cut off at Helgen) he says, "Can't fault anyone for that! As long as you hate the Empire as much as I do, that I can work with." From their perspective, the Empire and their Thalmor puppetmasters are the enemy, not any particular race.
I came to the conclusion while doing my own digging that it's non-Stormcloaks like Galmar who are outwardly racist towards Khajiit, Dunmer and Argonians, not the Stormcloak command. It's just, with their war on the Empire they legitimately do not have the manpower to work on improving the Argonian Assemblage (or building them all actual houses) or the Gray Quarter. Once the war is over and Skyrim's economy recovers, such things may change, it's just that Bethesda didn't think about implementing that sort of thing because they're Bethesda.
Party snacks seems to refer to Alduin and Akatosh (Bormahu) as separate entities when speaking to the dragonborn.
I've always considered akatosh Auriel and alduin to exist in a Trinity
Gelebor also don't mention Alduin when he mentions every names of "Akatosh", and Alduin himself states that he's the first born of him (meaning they're separate entities).
Could be an oversoul situation, like Talos. 3 spirits, same dude. Also could just be a case of creation (anti-anti creation specifically, not creation in the normal sense)
@@partnax5629 Alduin himself refers to himself as the First Born son of The Dragon God. And the Dragons themselves refer to their race as Children of Akatosh.
The Dude or Dragon rather is at best a secondary member of the Elder Scrolls Pantheon. As are his lesser siblings.
@@sheogorath6834 Nope, Alduin literally predates Akatosh. He's the Nordic version of Auri-El. Remember Akatosh is a combination of Shor/Lorkhan and Alduin/Auri-El. The same why the Nords see Alduin as a devil, the Elves see Lorkhan as a devil. The Time God is the enemy in the Nordic Pantheon. It's stated that Shor and Alduin fought at the beginning of time aka the Dawn Era during the war between Humans and Elves.
Brothers and sisters are natural enemies.
Just like Nords and Orcs
Or Nords and Falmer
Or Nords and Dwemer
Or Nords and Altmer
Or Nords and Neads
Or Nords and other Nords!
Dam Nords! They ruined Skyrim for the Nords!
If Ysmir and the Shezzarine are the same thing, and represent an avatar of Lorkhan, does that also just mean that Talos is also Lorkhan as well?
Is that maybe an additional layer to why the Aldmeri are so vehement in their opposition to Talos worship. Because if Talos = Lorkhan it would mean that all of a sudden the absolute enemy deity within elven mythology was granted a Seat amongst the Divines.
And on a deeper level it would mean that a manifestation of the deity who dragged the Aedra from grace was seated amongst them yet again.
Man, it sure would have been cool for that to be explored anywhere in the dang games, huh.
A Nord named Njord?! I need to get back to my buddy Njordmann the Nord Man, he's not nearly as knowledgeable as Njord the Nord.
The way I interpreted it, I saw Herma-Mora (Hermaeus Mora) secretly and covertly taught the Thu’um first to Miraak, before Kyne could teach it to Paarthurnax. Because Herma-Mora is the “God of forbidden knowledge, fates, & memories”, it would make sense the actual truth and history would be hidden, obscured, or forgotten. Since he is considered a “demon” by most, any records of him actually teaching the Thu’um first to humanity would have been destroyed or confiscated.
I suspect it was the other way around. As we see when Herma-Mora finally gets the secrets of the Skaal, he does not possess knowledge inherently but rather hoards it. Therefore, it is more likely that Miraak gave Herma-Mora the secrets of the Thu'um in exchange for power and access to Apocrypha. While mortals did not learn the thu'um until taught by Kyne/Paarthurnax, Miraak was dragonborn, and so already possessed the gift and was surrounded by dragons through which he could learn.
the Dragonborn expansion tells us that knowledge can be withheld from Mora's reach, so either they already knew about the Thu'um or someone (a dragon priest perhaps) told them.
Guess Ysmir Wufarth comvinced you to finish the video. Pretty cool video.
MASTER NELOTH BACK AT IT AGAIN BLESSING US WITH KNOWLEDGE 🎉🎉🎉
I really like that the different cultures actually have different interpretations of the gods. It's a fun way to do "the gods are real and you can prove it" while maintaining distinct cultural viewpoints. And whose to say a being like Stendarr and Stuhn is even a different interpretation? It could just be the way that particular Aedra chose to present to different peoples. Afterall, Stendarr is a god of mercy and it could be argued that from a classical Nord perspective holding an enemy ransom is more merciful than outright killing them (many Nords want to die gloriously, I know, but they don't seem anymore concerned with rushing to death in general. Especially compared to Orcs, who basically have to die young or become nomads looking to die in battle).
Njord is actually a nordic deity. Njord, or Njördr, is the norse Vanir god of the sea, given to the Aesir gods as a hostage, at home in Noatun, a city made out of ships, husband to Skadi, and apparently called upon by sailors and fishers.
I think, there's a good chance, that he was at least partly the inspiration for Stuhn.
If I understand it right, while the dragons of TES appear to be minor Aedra and lack a conventional gender, it seems that all the Dovah are considered to be male. If they were female, they wouldn't be Dovah, but Jill.
I think, if you were to take the statement, that the Thu'um was taught to the Nord through Kynes daughters, to be literal, it'd either have to be, that Paarthurnax was the first Dragon to turn, but that the Thu'um was mainly taught by the Jill, or, what seems more likely to me, that the first men to be taught the Thu'um by Paarthurnax (possibly on behalf of Kyne), were priestesses of, or otherwise favoured by, Kyne. Or maybe she used someone like priestesses dedicated to her, who could be referred to as her daughters, to bestow the blessing of understanding upon those who would become the first tongues.
In my opinion, that wouldn't even be that absurd. Since Dovahzul functions entirely different, I think it quite plausible, that Kyne could've instructed Paarthurnax, who had a change of heart and pitied the races of man, to teach the Thu'um to humans, and then blessed the first tongues with a better understanding of things, so they could learn the Thu'um in a shorter amount of time, and these first tongues then taught other humans, who didn't have this blessing of understanding, since the first tongues now understood both the meaning of the tongue of the timeless dragons and that of man, who are doomed to die, and therefore probably had an easier time explaining these concepts of the immortal to the mortals. Does that make sense?
If not, let's try it this way: we are told, that to be able to use the Thu'um, one must be able to grasp the _entirety_ of a concept, in all its facets, so to breathe fire, for example, you have to understand the concept of fire. That's why Paarthurnax couldn't teach the Dragonfall shout: dragons would have a hard time learning it, if they are even able to in the first place, because dragons are beings outside of time, they are more or less immortal beings, and the Dragonfall shout forces them to experience mortality, a concept entirely alien to them. Similarly are humans likely unable to learn the shout that Alduin used to revive the other dragons, because they, as a mortal race, have a hard time grasping the meaning, the concept of timelessness and immortality in its entirety.
I have always found it a little ironic that despite the Orcs being one of the Nords most ancient foes the Nords have historically had the most alliances with the Orcs, at least when it comes to the non-manish races anyway. In the First Era Wulfharth made an alliance with the Eastern Orcs for the Battle of Red Mountain, in the Second Era the Fildgor and Stormfist clan rallied an army of Orcs, and the Third Era Nord warriors with Orc mercenaries invaded House Redoran territory. Except for the Ebonheart Pact, I cant other alliances with Nords and Dunmer example, maybe this is just a case of real recognizes real? Still find it strange that two races that are ancient enemies and are known to hold grudges, would ally themselves that often, though I guess when it comes to the Mer/Beast Folk the Nords do share the most common ground with the Orcs.
I just assumed Malaketh was called mountian fart because the nords thought what Boethiah did to him was hilarious. I may not know a ton of the expanded lore, but i think the furries said Boethiah was like a sibling to Shor or something, and that was payback on his behalf?
I’d need to reread some things but I vividly remember that Boethiah was in love with or at least felt a connection to Shor. Honestly Boethiah seems like an unsung hero the mankind for avenging Shors death.
I was so hoping that his defeat would also be called "The Battle of Mountain Fart"
yooo lets goo!!!! god lore video from master neloth!!!
You posted. Thank talos for you neloth ❤❤
Are you planning to do a video like this for other pantheons?
Yes, I would love to do videos on the pantheons of all races, I will probably do the Aldmeri pantheon next, then the Imperial one. And afterwards do the Dunmer or Yokudan ones. Also talking about the Dragon Cult of Skyrim in detail would be another video lol
I am gonna say because the in universe lore says only Shor can sit upon his throne, and we can sit on said throne. The Last Dragonborn at the very least is the Shezzarine.
i can never get enough lore videos on the nordic pantheon
Please make a video covering the dragon cult. That part always confuses me when I play skyrim.
I love subbing to all of you KH and ES channels
Lol so Skyrim has such a shortage of smart Nords that the character Njord had to flat out be fan fiction. Also for LDB to be a Shezzarine he would have to Certainly be a man as opposed to getting his dragon soul with the blessing of Akatosh who protects men and mer
What if shor stole power from akatosh to create the last dragonborn? seems like something he would do.
@@jackagonis9302 Big If bro. That would make shor the only god with a personality. The others just passively let him run circles around them lol. Why steal power from Akatosh. To empower a mortal anyway? What about Shor's own divine powers or the power of the other living Aedra who are sympathetic to mankind. Why can't they empower a mortal? These are rhetorical questions by the way. I don't expect anyone to know for sure.
It's also possible that Akatosh imbued a Shezzarine with the dragon blood in order to bring Alduin back to heel. Shezzarines are pretty well known to get shit done, and being a dragonborn is almost necessary to defeating the army of dragons Alduin was sure to raise.
Genocide against the falmer?
I think you mean "finishing the fight _they_ started"
I always assumed just Wulfharth was the only Shezzarine as I don't believe Shor would come back as multiple avatars who would quarrel with each other
I also doubt the Dragonborn is a Shezzarine because if he was a aspect of Shor, Tsun would have definitely noticed
Thoughts on House Redoran Master Neloth?
Great canon fodder during the Oblivion Crisis!
@@masterneloth well said.
This is the only skyrim lore on gods video that makes actual sense 🎉😂
My first experience with Elder Scrolls was the original Skyrim debut trailer back in the day, so I have a soft spot for all things Nord (plus, most Elves just make themselves extremely unlikeable). So it’s nice to see a video containing this knowledge.
I just thought of something awesome. What if the Shezarrine is just the Champion of Shor's will, like how the Nerevarine is the Champion of Azura's will? If so, then Akatosh or rather the Akatosh/Alduine could be the Champion of Auriel's will, and Alduin could be an Akatosh.
Another thought is that the Nords could literally have been Snow Elves that were turned into Men during the Dawn Era thanks to Arkay's actions, and these could have been Snow Elves that eschewed Auriel for Shor. Since Auriel created the Elves and they were cursed to mortality by Shor's actions, Ariel could have created Akatoshes, literally 1000 year world destroyers, to destroy the mortal world thus ending the kalpa and freeing the Elves from mortality.
merma-mora's story really does sound like clavicus vile
That hermaean rabbit was one creepy image
Thank you master Neloth
Akatosh of the Nine Divines and Alduin are very much separate beings, both literally, and in terms of worship
Hail Sithis!!!!
🏔️ 💨
No, The Nine and the All-Maker are worthy. Sithis is evil. Some Saint you are.
Nah hail namria
They should have made the Nords of Skyrim more tradtional and make the Stormcloacks more of an traditonalist faction rather than the lame racist ploit it is now.
They could still be xenophobic, but at least it'd be paired with tradition instead of just Talos. Lol
@@demcurvs Issue is that the Stormcloacks appeal to almost no-one in the Elder Scrolls community because their viewed as racist. As a result everyone goes imperial almost all of the time which is lame. They should have either made the Stormcloacks more redeemable or the Imperials worse. First option would probably be best.
@@someonesilence3731 I think some people have their brain turned off and like Stormcloaks despite, and sometimes because of, the racism.
Njord is the name of the Vanir god of the ocean and sailing in norse mythology.
I consider The dragonborn to the synthesis of kynes gift the walking covenant of akatosh and an incarnation of shor
The embody the breath of kyne the soul of a dragon and the will of lorkhan to protect the current iteration of the mundus and the tower, but what do i know?
Whats that armor your using for the nord and is it available on xbox?
It is the Ysmir armor mod and yes it was ported over by Xtudo!
If Alduin is akatosh who created the dragons? I assumed alduin weren’t the same being, and parthuunax I believed was his brother. But if alduin is akatosh I guess that would make sense since he can resurrect the dragons at the burial spots
Master Neloth, have you ever done a video on the religion of the nords of solstheim?
TES Gods and Pantheons are so confusing. For example, are Lorkhan and Shor the same person? Are Akatosh and Auriel the same person (and Alduin?) If so, then why would Pelinal be quoted saying that Shor and Akatosh are allies who share the same madness, while Auriel and Lorkhan are sworn enemies who hate eachother. The most likely theory is that they really are all different persons, because they all truly do appear and do different things, that being said, Shor and Lorkhan seemingly appear to be the same person. Whereas Alduin, Akatosh, and Alduin do not appear to be the same person.
I hate to be that guy but what is the armor mod used in the thumbnail?
It is the Ysmir Armor mod, I just added a link in the description if this video if you need the link!
@@masterneloth Thank you very much!
Great video :) are you planning on doing more build videos?
the irony of "true" nords worshiping Talos is, Tiber Septim was a god created by the Empire.
34:40 it Shor seems like it
I'd like to point out that the war criminal Tiber Septim was a Breton that looked enough like a Nord to pass as one. And Ysgramor might have played wack the mole with the wrong race of mer too
According to the lore Tiber septum was a Atmoran who grew up in Skyrim. He wasn't a Breton.
Me: Hehe poopoo rock 😂
Also me: so does the fart cause an echo in the mountain. A reoccurring fart? Is he the farter or fartee? Does Trinimac give indigestion? 🤔
May the Gods watch over your battles! \o/
I often wondered if if the first era or second era the Nords fought countless wars losing hundreds of thousands for centuries against the Orcs.
Afterall the Orcs inhabited skyrim before the Nords. So ergo the Nords had to take some of their territory from them
Skyrim is for the nords!
Alduin is not Akatosh he is the first born of Akatosh
I got a question hope someone can answer me is there a god in skyrim that represents freedom I been looking this up a can't really find an answer can someone hopefully answer this ?
don't let an old norse specialist /nerd hear you pronounce that name: Njórd, or Njörðr as is the old norse spelling...
he is the lord of the vanir and the father of Freyr and Freja. god of the sea ;) that dude there is named after this old norse god.
alduin himself say that he is the firstborn of akatosh and it is known that dragons are the children of akatosh, it may be a jump in logic but kyne being the goddess of wind and said to have been at the throat of the world which is literally referred to as mother wind by the dragons says that dragons are the children of kyne and akatosh, alduin and akatosh are different as accepted by most nords, imperial schollars assume that since they had akatosh that old nords just named him something else to suit their needs, i know you know this because i read it off the wiki where you got most of your script from, i was reading it and watching at the same time. too many of your sentences were word for word from the wiki, if you are going to make a lore video be sure to include all the info not just the parts that you feel like, yes you made a small reference to the misconception between the two ideologies but you presented it in a way that make the opposite seem like fact and didnt even mention that the imperials were the ones that assumed they were the same being, you said that the nords started to think they may have been seperate even thought the ancient ones claimed they were the same, quit trying to confuse people
I thought alduin was akatosh's son like all dragon's
do khajit next. those skooma loving cats sure have funny belief.
house liloo
Since when was Alduin actually Akatosh?
@@wandatorres1628 Since Morrowind in 2002 with the book “Varieties of faith in the empire”
Dragons do have genders. Female dragons are called Jills and fix the timeline for Akatosh.
Whaat's the name of the armor that Njord Wears & and his axe please
Mead is good but a giant war hammer is not what i want. Magic is better
My character doesn’t believes in those gods as gods. Because those are created to be “gods”, meaning they are beings.
Atheist characters in setting with literal magic and obvious proof of the existent of the divine are either pretty compelling or insufferably annoying.
Oh my Reddit
@@MoaRider 😂 I’m just expanding my imagination through my character.
She’s not atheist, but has a higher sense of spiritual awareness in which sees the world incomplete. Though, despite the accounts of 8 to 9 so called divines, she questions it amid fundamental clauses that she tries to answer: there has to be 1 supreme deity.
@@todd2.08 😅 what??
Blasphemy. There's only one true god. GOD HOWARD BABYY LETS GOOOO!!!
Happy 4/20
Hare-ma Mora
Yo
We all know these supposed “gods” are all false. Come worship lord dagoth ur
Played it today for the first time. I've played more than 5 hours but still can't enjoy it. Just the loading screen on every door makes me sick. Darksiders much more better
I mean the snow elves kinda deserved it for the night of tears tho xD
Which kingdom?
I find it bizarre the Nords thought all the kingdoms of the snow elves deserved it and not just the kingdom in northeast skyrim.
There were 5 kingdoms of snow elves in all.
4 in skyrim 1 in Soltheim.
@@noahtylerpritchett2682 there was one survivor i think? I'm pretty sure to them a snow elf was a snow elf this is a pretty savage universe after all xD
@@udahfickt whenever I see people try to justify genocide I think of the hamas and idf trying to genocide jews and palestinians respectively
And so even In fiction when I see a race implied they deserved a genocide I cringe.
@@noahtylerpritchett2682ifs a game karen chillax