I guess one is made in the Netherlands which adds to the cost. Its also a lot older, im quite surprised Ultimaker even exists these days given what you can get for your money now.
We use the same setup as shown in the video: the Ultimaker S5 Pro Bundle. It's worth every penny of the steep price for the age of the tech. The material station was pretty novel years ago though. What sets it apart is the reliability, accuracy and ease of use for non-3D-printing people. It's a production machine and so is the software side. Prepared prints cannot be printed with the wrong material or the wrong print head, because both are known by the machine (if you use Ultimaker materials, there's an RFID chip in the spools. They are fairly expensive, but material cost is only a small part of the total costs.) Also the trouble shooting is pretty good. When something goes wrong, in most cases the printer will walk you through the steps to get it fixed or it'll show a QR code that directs to a help page. I'm looking at getting another printer and have checked out all kind of brands, but unless you're ready to spend a lot more this usability seems to be unique to Ultimaker as far as I can tell. I would love to get an X1 for the speed, as it would help our prototyping process. But I probably would have to set up a whole new workflow for it. The people operating it might need training. Materials wouldn't be interchangeable. Nor would spare parts. All things considered, the new S7 is probably going to be the best option. And not just because we are 10k in the Ultimaker ecosystem, but because there's only 1 real downside imo: speed. The rest is pretty great. Ok, the bowden setup isn't ideal for flex materials, but that's a minor grief in my case.
Agreed, if you're in the Ultimaker world already it makes sense, the parts are very expensive but they do last a lot longer and can handle abrasives much better, so can the material station, the Bambu AMS can't do abrasives at all. Although the X1 also has RFID on it's spools like the Ultimaker it's limited to it's own materials and isn't open to users, that's something we wish we had access too. Thanks for watching and good luck with your S7!
I've been printing ASA on my Ender 3 for years. Switched to K1C and printing ASA practically non stop. You really don't even need $1500 printer to print quality parts. K1C is under $600 and works great
Yep, you have to be into some pretty exotic stuff to really need the S5. We've recently replaced it with something new, check out our newest video and see what we ended up with.
It seams you’ve gotten wonderful use of the Ultimaker. But they are both capable of printing ABS and ASA. Ventilation is a challenge for both. I think you can really marvel at advancements in tech here. Cool bin organization
Indeed we have, the Ultimaker has printed tens of thousands of meters of filament and is able to deal with material that needs a hot end that goes to 400º but the little X1 sure is amazing for what you pay for it, but as I said, it's not really built for the insane amount of hours we've put into the Ultimaker so we'll see if it lasts but it's cool to see tech progress.
Take the S5 dual extruder and heated chamber away and really what would you pay for it? Could you then also call it a hobby machine or "prosumer" machine? IT seems these are the terms used by the companies overcharging for their outdated tech when talking about their competition. If you want to use an X1C for hobby, home use it does that and also for industrial use all day long!
Agreed, a truly industrial machine is SLS or SLA these days, and the S1 is also a great machine for under $1000! It’s really just a great time to be involved in 3D printing.
Have a S5 with the hood and material station at work, again about £10k and X1 at home for the home business £1300. If we need another one at work would be recommending a X1E as to be honest the selection of materials on the Bambu is better over all but you do miss out on a few specific materials like CPE. I mainly print ASA and PET-CF at home and have little to no issues with the X1 as all hardened nozzles and extruder. The only advantages I can find with the S5 now is the extra build space and the duel heads as purging on the X1 can be wasteful or if you have to roll feed an abrasive material you cant use the AMS so not support material. I find the heat is more stable inside the chamber on the X1 so I have less warpage with ABS/ASA/PA which is great compared to the S5. This is where the X1E shines as it comes with a chamber heater, better filtration and setup more for business networks. Really feel the high cost for the printer and materials for the Ultimaker is just too much to warrant the small upgrades. Also Bambu Slicer is so much nicer than Cura.
I agree all the way around, Bamboo has done some incredible work, and those little machines are just fabulous. I would love to see a multi extruder machine or even a tool changer machine from them in the future… that would be very cool!
There are a lot that the Bambu won't print, but the one big one that we print in the Ulitmaker all the time is Nylon, it's the worst material in the world to print... it warps like the starship enterprise as soon as it hits the bed and needs to be printed very hot (too hot for the X1) on a very hot bed (too hot for the X1) just to have a chance at working. The Ultimaker Material Handler also deals with Nylon, not sure if the AMS will, if it wasn't reenforced with anything probably. The other material we sometimes print is PEKK, that's PEEK's little brother and after annealing let's us make parts that will work in temperatures up to almost 500ºF, it's also not fun to print at all and requires the much hotter hot end that the Ultimaker has. BUT the X1 can do 90% of the printing jobs that we need to do, and if we didn't have the Ultimaker we could send out our Nylon and PEKK parts and be fine.
Hi there. Quick question: So the Bambi cannot print two materials at once? Like, a plastic phone protector with rubber corners? Or table legs with rubber bottoms? Can you recommend a printer for that sort of job? Thank you so much.
Hey there, that’s true, something like TPU and PETG at the same time won’t work because of how the AMS works, the best option right now is probably the Prusa XL, it can have up to 5 tool heads and you can add them as you need them. It’s expensive, but there are some build yourself options that can make it a bit more affordable. There are others out there but your mileage will vary depend who it’s being built by. The Prusa stuff is extremely good, and very reliable. Thanks for watching!
my bambu X1Cs have printed ASA (and occasionally PA-CF) all day every day for 11 months straight without a hiccup. i go through occasional build plates but still on the original nozzles. they paid for themselves in weeks versus months for the "pro" printers and it's faster and the prints are higher quality
Agreed, we haven't stopped this little guy in almost 4 moths now, it's loaded with two spools of black and 2 spools of grey and just keeps sucking them down and auto switching, it's like a tiny single machine print farm. We've cocked one of the standard beads but sense moving to the textured PEI bed, zero issues.
Sure can, ABS and ASA are a little much for the filtering system that's in that machine so we wouldn't want to be sleeping in the room with it while it prints overnight but it will do it for sure. Nylon and PEKK are two other materials that we print often and they are hard in the case of Nylon and impossible in the case of PEKK but honestly, we could send those parts out, and still send up paying less overall than buying another Ultimaker, so when the S5 leaves this world that's likely what we'll be doing.
They can both print a lot of the same materials. I remember getting an s3 extened at work back in 2016. Great machine, loved the dual nozzles. Not sure why that trend seems to have gone away beyond some extra mass moving around effecting max speed. But multi material is great for multiple nozzles and IMO well worth the extra mass. Since then, I frankly dont understand how ultimakers prices have skyrocket like they have. I think the s3 is a lot more expensive to buy now then it was 8 years ago. Insane. Also, did your printhead catch fire?
Ha, yes indeed the printhead did catch fire... we were printing some questionable wood filled material a little too hot... anyway... Ya, I'm not sure what the Ultimaker folks are up to, I love the printer and the software but they are just too expensive to maintain when compared to others on the market with almost the same features.
They've changed their target market to commercial users and away from home 3d printers. I get it to some extent bc it is very hard to compete with Chinese company prices. In theory ultimakers should hopefully be much more reliable and have better service but I think that can only go so far. It can be hard to justify one ultimakers for reliability and customer service when you can buy 5 bambus for the same price that can do the same thing faster and possibly better quality too. I'm no where near defending Bambu and I try to avoid made in China as much as possible. I'm ok with paying a premium for non MIC products but not 5x. Get real. I worry Prusa will also go in this direction as ultimaker and lulzbot did. Less innovation, more expensive but a lot better service.
Bottom line, Ultimaker is living in the past. My Qidi Q1 pro prints circles around my old ultimaker 2 extended +, and that was "an industrial machine"....the qidi high temp ability is amazing with no warpage with active heating...and only $469....
Not that they aren’t available, just that they wear on the printer and don’t work with the AMS, it’s actually called the Carbon because the gantry rods are made of carbon fiber, something that Bambu Lab says is one of the reasons the printer is able to move so fast. Thanks for watching!
@@theunderpoweredhour9893they don’t work with AMS, that’s a fair hit against them.. but even if those filaments absolutely wrecked the machine in just a year you could easily replace the machine entirely, every year, for most of a decade before you spent the same amount as buying an ultimaker. Sure if you need one of the way, tiny handful of oddball filaments that needs a 320 degree+ hotend I guess it doesn’t work, but even industrial uses who’s doing that on a regular basis? Those are hyper specific needs that in almost all cases can be filled by easier filaments.
yeah i have an army of bambu P1S's and have had no issues. ive used both stratasys machines and ultimakers for work before and i can say that although their customer service is great and white glove for stratasys is awesome. they are overpriced and not worth it at all. stratasys uses mainly ABS and needs to use build plates made of ABS to print or a compatible material ultimaker has a semi open build system, but parts are proprietary for the hotends. the motion system is exactly lackluster considring its price tag and print quality is the same as a bambu or prusa. hell a well tuned CR 10 is just as fast and has similar print quiality. bambu's on the other hand are comparatively cheap, dimensional accuracy is great as well, usually just takes some modifications of the model if accuracy is a must. they also handle high temp materials great, ive printed PA 66, PPSU and PEEK before on them. just need to spoof the hotend which is a 5 minute modification. also for those concerned of file safety, just use them over a dedicated LAN, get a cheap amazon router and use that.
The Ultimaker S5 , with the added air station and multiple material station, is a print farm tank. The Bambu is neat but you don't have a high quality filter in there managing the VOCs that prints create. The Bambu is impressively fast and uses a newer motion system than the Ultimaker S5 (came out in 2018). Your title is very much click-bait since you really didn't answer the "Is it worth it" The supply chain for parts and things for the Ultimakers are very good, as is their support. Bambu's can be a chore to work on, from what I have seen. I don't think I would consider the Bambu "better", it certainly does some nice things faster. If they make a bigger version, I'd be interested to try it. (I have 7 Ultimaker S5's I bought for work. At home I have 21 machines - one Ultimaker 2+, no Bambus....too small for my current needs).
Agreed that printing high VOC materials with the X1 isn't a great idea, as Steve mentioned in the video that's one of the big advantages to the Ultimaker, it's ability to print more material types. I think the real point of the video is there's not really a better overall just a better for your needs, and I sounds like you have a pretty impressive setup! Thanks for watching!
Not quite accurate about the materials, the bambu can print all the same materials as the S5, also UM have moved away from ruby tipped nozzles to hardened steel, the same as the Bambu. Basically they can do all the same things, just way better on the Bambu. The S5 is a dinosaur and out of date !
There's a really small selection of filament that requires a hotter hot end than the Bambu can take but you're right, the S5 has had it's day, check out our latest video and see what we've replaced it with.
Just be careful with data security with the bambu printers. They are fast, which can also be a concern for layer adhesion but the biggest concern is if you handle sensitive data, those printers are logging EVERYTHING including 3mf files of the prints you print on the local network. They have been great for home users or newbies diving in, that now they don't need to truly understand how the machines work to get a half decent print. Also I find dimensional accuracy really falls off with the Bambus as well, especially coming from an Ultimaker you will see a big difference in tolerances but it really is going to depend on what you are making
Indeed, we have all this internet connected stuff on our "Utility" network, away from anything important. I know some folks have decided to just use local file service because they are worried about this, so it's a something you have to decide for yourself.
Yep, that's one way to go. Thankfully we're not using it for anything secret or sensitive, but some people might want to lock it down local, up to them I guess.
I guess one is made in the Netherlands which adds to the cost. Its also a lot older, im quite surprised Ultimaker even exists these days given what you can get for your money now.
We use the same setup as shown in the video: the Ultimaker S5 Pro Bundle. It's worth every penny of the steep price for the age of the tech. The material station was pretty novel years ago though. What sets it apart is the reliability, accuracy and ease of use for non-3D-printing people. It's a production machine and so is the software side. Prepared prints cannot be printed with the wrong material or the wrong print head, because both are known by the machine (if you use Ultimaker materials, there's an RFID chip in the spools. They are fairly expensive, but material cost is only a small part of the total costs.)
Also the trouble shooting is pretty good. When something goes wrong, in most cases the printer will walk you through the steps to get it fixed or it'll show a QR code that directs to a help page. I'm looking at getting another printer and have checked out all kind of brands, but unless you're ready to spend a lot more this usability seems to be unique to Ultimaker as far as I can tell. I would love to get an X1 for the speed, as it would help our prototyping process. But I probably would have to set up a whole new workflow for it. The people operating it might need training. Materials wouldn't be interchangeable. Nor would spare parts. All things considered, the new S7 is probably going to be the best option. And not just because we are 10k in the Ultimaker ecosystem, but because there's only 1 real downside imo: speed. The rest is pretty great. Ok, the bowden setup isn't ideal for flex materials, but that's a minor grief in my case.
Agreed, if you're in the Ultimaker world already it makes sense, the parts are very expensive but they do last a lot longer and can handle abrasives much better, so can the material station, the Bambu AMS can't do abrasives at all. Although the X1 also has RFID on it's spools like the Ultimaker it's limited to it's own materials and isn't open to users, that's something we wish we had access too. Thanks for watching and good luck with your S7!
I've been printing ASA on my Ender 3 for years. Switched to K1C and printing ASA practically non stop. You really don't even need $1500 printer to print quality parts. K1C is under $600 and works great
Yep, you have to be into some pretty exotic stuff to really need the S5. We've recently replaced it with something new, check out our newest video and see what we ended up with.
It seams you’ve gotten wonderful use of the Ultimaker. But they are both capable of printing ABS and ASA. Ventilation is a challenge for both. I think you can really marvel at advancements in tech here. Cool bin organization
Indeed we have, the Ultimaker has printed tens of thousands of meters of filament and is able to deal with material that needs a hot end that goes to 400º but the little X1 sure is amazing for what you pay for it, but as I said, it's not really built for the insane amount of hours we've put into the Ultimaker so we'll see if it lasts but it's cool to see tech progress.
@@theunderpoweredhour9893for sure!
Take the S5 dual extruder and heated chamber away and really what would you pay for it? Could you then also call it a hobby machine or "prosumer" machine? IT seems these are the terms used by the companies overcharging for their outdated tech when talking about their competition. If you want to use an X1C for hobby, home use it does that and also for industrial use all day long!
Agreed, a truly industrial machine is SLS or SLA these days, and the S1 is also a great machine for under $1000! It’s really just a great time to be involved in 3D printing.
Have a S5 with the hood and material station at work, again about £10k and X1 at home for the home business £1300. If we need another one at work would be recommending a X1E as to be honest the selection of materials on the Bambu is better over all but you do miss out on a few specific materials like CPE. I mainly print ASA and PET-CF at home and have little to no issues with the X1 as all hardened nozzles and extruder. The only advantages I can find with the S5 now is the extra build space and the duel heads as purging on the X1 can be wasteful or if you have to roll feed an abrasive material you cant use the AMS so not support material. I find the heat is more stable inside the chamber on the X1 so I have less warpage with ABS/ASA/PA which is great compared to the S5. This is where the X1E shines as it comes with a chamber heater, better filtration and setup more for business networks. Really feel the high cost for the printer and materials for the Ultimaker is just too much to warrant the small upgrades. Also Bambu Slicer is so much nicer than Cura.
I agree all the way around, Bamboo has done some incredible work, and those little machines are just fabulous. I would love to see a multi extruder machine or even a tool changer machine from them in the future… that would be very cool!
Nice Vid! , What are the materials that you CAN NOT use in Bambu that you use in the MAKER printer? Temps?
There are a lot that the Bambu won't print, but the one big one that we print in the Ulitmaker all the time is Nylon, it's the worst material in the world to print... it warps like the starship enterprise as soon as it hits the bed and needs to be printed very hot (too hot for the X1) on a very hot bed (too hot for the X1) just to have a chance at working. The Ultimaker Material Handler also deals with Nylon, not sure if the AMS will, if it wasn't reenforced with anything probably. The other material we sometimes print is PEKK, that's PEEK's little brother and after annealing let's us make parts that will work in temperatures up to almost 500ºF, it's also not fun to print at all and requires the much hotter hot end that the Ultimaker has. BUT the X1 can do 90% of the printing jobs that we need to do, and if we didn't have the Ultimaker we could send out our Nylon and PEKK parts and be fine.
Hi there. Quick question: So the Bambi cannot print two materials at once? Like, a plastic phone protector with rubber corners? Or table legs with rubber bottoms? Can you recommend a printer for that sort of job? Thank you so much.
Hey there, that’s true, something like TPU and PETG at the same time won’t work because of how the AMS works, the best option right now is probably the Prusa XL, it can have up to 5 tool heads and you can add them as you need them. It’s expensive, but there are some build yourself options that can make it a bit more affordable. There are others out there but your mileage will vary depend who it’s being built by. The Prusa stuff is extremely good, and very reliable. Thanks for watching!
my bambu X1Cs have printed ASA (and occasionally PA-CF) all day every day for 11 months straight without a hiccup.
i go through occasional build plates but still on the original nozzles. they paid for themselves in weeks versus months for the "pro" printers
and it's faster and the prints are higher quality
have you tried tpu
@@Speedgaming802 yes. prints great. just can't use in the multi material system
Agreed, we haven't stopped this little guy in almost 4 moths now, it's loaded with two spools of black and 2 spools of grey and just keeps sucking them down and auto switching, it's like a tiny single machine print farm. We've cocked one of the standard beads but sense moving to the textured PEI bed, zero issues.
the bambu can do abs and asa and tpu
Sure can, ABS and ASA are a little much for the filtering system that's in that machine so we wouldn't want to be sleeping in the room with it while it prints overnight but it will do it for sure. Nylon and PEKK are two other materials that we print often and they are hard in the case of Nylon and impossible in the case of PEKK but honestly, we could send those parts out, and still send up paying less overall than buying another Ultimaker, so when the S5 leaves this world that's likely what we'll be doing.
They can both print a lot of the same materials. I remember getting an s3 extened at work back in 2016. Great machine, loved the dual nozzles. Not sure why that trend seems to have gone away beyond some extra mass moving around effecting max speed. But multi material is great for multiple nozzles and IMO well worth the extra mass.
Since then, I frankly dont understand how ultimakers prices have skyrocket like they have. I think the s3 is a lot more expensive to buy now then it was 8 years ago. Insane.
Also, did your printhead catch fire?
Ha, yes indeed the printhead did catch fire... we were printing some questionable wood filled material a little too hot... anyway... Ya, I'm not sure what the Ultimaker folks are up to, I love the printer and the software but they are just too expensive to maintain when compared to others on the market with almost the same features.
They've changed their target market to commercial users and away from home 3d printers. I get it to some extent bc it is very hard to compete with Chinese company prices. In theory ultimakers should hopefully be much more reliable and have better service but I think that can only go so far. It can be hard to justify one ultimakers for reliability and customer service when you can buy 5 bambus for the same price that can do the same thing faster and possibly better quality too.
I'm no where near defending Bambu and I try to avoid made in China as much as possible. I'm ok with paying a premium for non MIC products but not 5x. Get real.
I worry Prusa will also go in this direction as ultimaker and lulzbot did. Less innovation, more expensive but a lot better service.
@@theunderpoweredhour9893 wow crazy it caught fire. But good thing it didnt burn the whole place down!
Cool video! When will the links be up? I’d like to get organized also!
Hey thanks for watching, we'll have that area of the Underpoweredhour.com site updated over the weekend so check back next week. Thanks for watching!
Bottom line, Ultimaker is living in the past. My Qidi Q1 pro prints circles around my old ultimaker 2 extended +, and that was "an industrial machine"....the qidi high temp ability is amazing with no warpage with active heating...and only $469....
Indeed, in fact we've just packed the Ultimaker off to a new life elsewhere... Check out our latest video to see what we replaced it with.
You say that carbon fiber and fiberglass filled filaments aren't available on the bambu, that's not true. That's why it's called the X1 Carbon!
Not that they aren’t available, just that they wear on the printer and don’t work with the AMS, it’s actually called the Carbon because the gantry rods are made of carbon fiber, something that Bambu Lab says is one of the reasons the printer is able to move so fast. Thanks for watching!
@@theunderpoweredhour9893they don’t work with AMS, that’s a fair hit against them.. but even if those filaments absolutely wrecked the machine in just a year you could easily replace the machine entirely, every year, for most of a decade before you spent the same amount as buying an ultimaker. Sure if you need one of the way, tiny handful of oddball filaments that needs a 320 degree+ hotend I guess it doesn’t work, but even industrial uses who’s doing that on a regular basis? Those are hyper specific needs that in almost all cases can be filled by easier filaments.
yeah i have an army of bambu P1S's and have had no issues. ive used both stratasys machines and ultimakers for work before and i can say that although their customer service is great and white glove for stratasys is awesome. they are overpriced and not worth it at all.
stratasys uses mainly ABS and needs to use build plates made of ABS to print or a compatible material
ultimaker has a semi open build system, but parts are proprietary for the hotends. the motion system is exactly lackluster considring its price tag and print quality is the same as a bambu or prusa. hell a well tuned CR 10 is just as fast and has similar print quiality.
bambu's on the other hand are comparatively cheap, dimensional accuracy is great as well, usually just takes some modifications of the model if accuracy is a must. they also handle high temp materials great, ive printed PA 66, PPSU and PEEK before on them. just need to spoof the hotend which is a 5 minute modification.
also for those concerned of file safety, just use them over a dedicated LAN, get a cheap amazon router and use that.
I agree, the march of progress has passed the S5 by... check out our latest video and see what we've replaced it with... it's a pretty big deal...
The Ultimaker S5 , with the added air station and multiple material station, is a print farm tank. The Bambu is neat but you don't have a high quality filter in there managing the VOCs that prints create. The Bambu is impressively fast and uses a newer motion system than the Ultimaker S5 (came out in 2018). Your title is very much click-bait since you really didn't answer the "Is it worth it" The supply chain for parts and things for the Ultimakers are very good, as is their support. Bambu's can be a chore to work on, from what I have seen. I don't think I would consider the Bambu "better", it certainly does some nice things faster. If they make a bigger version, I'd be interested to try it. (I have 7 Ultimaker S5's I bought for work. At home I have 21 machines - one Ultimaker 2+, no Bambus....too small for my current needs).
Agreed that printing high VOC materials with the X1 isn't a great idea, as Steve mentioned in the video that's one of the big advantages to the Ultimaker, it's ability to print more material types. I think the real point of the video is there's not really a better overall just a better for your needs, and I sounds like you have a pretty impressive setup! Thanks for watching!
Not quite accurate about the materials, the bambu can print all the same materials as the S5, also UM have moved away from ruby tipped nozzles to hardened steel, the same as the Bambu. Basically they can do all the same things, just way better on the Bambu. The S5 is a dinosaur and out of date !
There's a really small selection of filament that requires a hotter hot end than the Bambu can take but you're right, the S5 has had it's day, check out our latest video and see what we've replaced it with.
Just be careful with data security with the bambu printers. They are fast, which can also be a concern for layer adhesion but the biggest concern is if you handle sensitive data, those printers are logging EVERYTHING including 3mf files of the prints you print on the local network.
They have been great for home users or newbies diving in, that now they don't need to truly understand how the machines work to get a half decent print.
Also I find dimensional accuracy really falls off with the Bambus as well, especially coming from an Ultimaker you will see a big difference in tolerances but it really is going to depend on what you are making
Then use LAN-only mode and stop crying about it. If you're still paranoid, than turn off Wifi altogether and just slice and save to the SD card.
Indeed, we have all this internet connected stuff on our "Utility" network, away from anything important. I know some folks have decided to just use local file service because they are worried about this, so it's a something you have to decide for yourself.
Yep, that's one way to go. Thankfully we're not using it for anything secret or sensitive, but some people might want to lock it down local, up to them I guess.