Bias is best explained explicitly, honestly, accurately. You can't get rid of it in a tire test. All you can do is hope the riders are open with themselves and the audience about their existing review findings. I think also that biases such as square vs radial profile can be "off," because while experience with many tires & treads can tell you what you like, I don't think it's always as simple as square vs radial profile, or whether side knobs are staggered. Correlation is not causation, even though correlation is what many of us use daily when we compare things
@@seanoneil277 Wiki = In a blind or blinded experiment, information which may influence the participants of the experiment is withheld until after the experiment is complete. Good blinding can reduce or eliminate experimental biases that arise from a participants' expectations, observer's effect on the participants, observer bias, confirmation bias, and other sources. I wasn't saying anything about causation/correlation. Right from the start of the video, people are asked which tire/brand they prefer, so bias is immediately built into this review/test. I was trying to say it would be nice if the reviewers didn't know which brand/tire they were riding until after the review.
I imagine Continental sent the DH casing because its the only casing with the super soft compound. They need to make the enduro and trail casings with the super soft compound. Running that Conti DH casing at the same pressures as the thinner casings from the other brands is unfortunate, it doesn't need the higher pressure. Conti has great design with their new tire line and great quality control, but their bike tire product management seems to be run like a large corporate automotive tire mfg. They need more options on casing and compound.
Interesting to leave PSI the same across the board even though the casing strength is different. I just got the Contis with the DH super soft and noticed I can run it 2 PSI less then my Assegai DD Maxx Grip. That would also help with some of the criticism brought up with it feeling stiff. I will agree about getting it on edge, this past weekend after about 8 rides I've finally got it figured out.
Also, the Conti 2.6 tires have a tread width narrower than the Assegai 2.5, so using the 2.4 vs the Assegai 2.5 is a bit of a difference. I want to use a enduro casing 2.6 with supersoft compound, when they (hopefully) come out.
Considering the Schwalbe Magic Mary was probably one of the lightest tires there with it's Supertrail casing with soft compound it did surprisingly well. I think you all would have been very impressed with the Super Gravity/ Ultra Soft MM.
Magic Marys rock i have tried other tires but for uk riding where its nearly always wet i love my Marys but i might pick up a Vittoria tire to see whats up and also i run their tire inserts front and back and there great i had in cheap pipe insulators before i got the Vittoria inserts and the pipe insulators worked and gave good rim protection and sidewall performance but the Vittoria inserts were much better and a bit lighter
Vigilante is my current fave! I live on the North Coast of BC so I ride everything from mucky wet to dry rocky terrain when I go inland. The WTB tough casings are sweet.
They should have incorporated some woodland trail testing as well. Dry, hard pack trails are fun on any tyre. 🤷🏻♂️ Also, you gotta play with your pressures if you’re changing between casings.
@@mrvwbug4423 I spent time in SoCal a few years ago. Trail surfaces are like concrete with dust & tiny-grain gravel in most places. Deep ruts from surface water and trail traffic. Braking bumps also like concrete. Did I say it's slippery? And to me the surface isn't predictably slippery, but maybe that's because I haven't ridden it enough. It made me ride more cautiously than I'm used to, and made me want MaxxGrip front and rear despite rolling resistance. SoCal trails remind me of the MTB equivalent of skiing hardpacked manmade snow. About the direct opposite of nice fluffy snow or grippy groomers.
@@justinlascala2288 Thanks man, glad it helped. I've spent a lot of time on snow and dirt over the past 25 years, and a fair amount before that too. SoCal trails are their own brand of sketchy IMO. I'd have to learn to love drifting if I lived there. And I'm a carver. I did a bit of tire testing about a decade ago, back when DHR II was developed. High Roller 2, Aspen, Ardent Race, and a handful of CST models too. It was a great learning process not just about tires and tread/compound differences, but also casing and PSI sensitivities. I have to thank Bryan Holwell for the opportunity and what he taught me. Funky trivia: the coolest, best tire I tested back then was a 26" ADVantage in 2.4" super tacky with a proto of what ended up EXO casing. I think they later sold them for maybe 2 seasons.
Actually they are the most difficult in terms of grip, which is why the aussies can corner so well. I personally trust deep slop more than loose over hardpack conditions..
@@thicccboyztv That's where it's at. The others who are weight weenies should be looking at XC tires, not enduro tires. You aren't even timed in the uphill sections.
I'm on the Kryptos but with the Enduro casing and so far I love them for summer riding in BC. Over the winter I was on Magic Mary's, ultra soft with super gravity casing which I also loved in the wet/variable conditions.
Good test, love to see strong competition from the non-traditional MTB suppliers. Next time though, please adjust PSI based on compound and riding type. Otherwise you'll blame the tire for being vague, but it's just overpumped for a DD while the rider is leaning too far back...
it kills me to see this tire getting so popular, but it seems like availability has at least gotten better. Mazza is hands-down my favorite aggressive tire I’ve ridden over 30 years of mountain biking. Their Agarro is my go to trail tire. I’m going to try the new Continentals and I’ve heard good things about Vee, but across the brand, no tire company beats Vittoria in my book when combining performance, cost, and quality
All my bikes are riding Mazza from vittoria. Loving them. Ride the tyre a bit lower in PSI, as are super thick in sidewall. Last 2x longer than maxxis. Happy days
Fantastic video, have watched this over and over since you guys released it. Would be great to redo this test on more East coast types of soil (or at least looser Santa Cruz) trails. New Michelin Wild look intriguing as well.
I actually do care equally about front and rear tires because climbing is such a big part of my riding, but I can admit that the front tire is more important for safety while descending. When your tire slips climbing it sucks, but at least you’re not going to crash as a result (normally)
I've run that Enduro 4c Mazza on the Rear of my Slash and it was awesome! Rolls fast for a heavy 2ply tyre and lasted 2x as many KM's as a MaxxTerra DHR II - and I'm actually still using it on my HT (gets all the hand-me-downs). Vittoria have now released the Mazza Race (1c) which I'm keen to try on the front in-place of my usual MaxxGrip Assegai.
Great vid. So helpful to hear from 3of you. Weight, style and preferences help with hearing different opinions. Really impressed. Gonna try the V and Mazza for sure.
been running a mazza front and rear now for over a year and I was floored by how good it was and how long it has lasted. I really wanted to get my hands on some contis to test but I am overall happy with my Mazzas.
I bought some lighter vittorias for my Trailbike - mainly because i liked the Look. I was surprised how good they felt and got the mazza for my E-Enduro. Love them ever since! And they last so long!
Thanks for the great review. Nice you dont have too much rain there. I happed to live in very rainy country, so winter is grip on ice done by spokes. And most of the year the wider the tire the better it handles soft mud holes without sinking too much in.
This is the best tire review video I’ve seen. Mainly because I ride the same trails in this video so I can get a better idea of how you guys explain the tires. I would love to see reviews on the Specialized Butcher, Delium and Basanite 👏🏽👏🏽
Nice work guys. While uniform PSIs does help in a data-sorting sense, I'm sure each of the riders here knows that PSI changes can affect tire handling characteristics, and the chosen PSIs may not have been optimal for rider, pace, terrain. I think it would be great to have similar testing done on the lighter casing versions of the tires, for actual trail riding done by the great majority of riders. I don't know anyone personally who runds DH casings on their trail bikes. And trail casings + DH tread patterns ride differently than DH casings with the same tread. More squirm of tread vs casing in the lighter casing versions and PSI gets very critical with lighter casings.
These tires are starting to get so similar, especially between all Enduro and DH styles, that I'm starting to wonder how many riders would actually notice the differences. Not complaining though, makes it easier to find available tires with a wider range of similar tires. Just my opinion
Love both my Kryptotals and Michelins. Flip coin htwn the two- and knob pattern totally diff btwn them. Bith hook up excellently and no washouts if I ride reasonably. No DH casings. The typical rider only needs trail casing. Side support and firm corner knobs are most important to me.
The company was contacted and given the terrain, track, and conditions they'll get tested on and they provided the tires that's best suited for said parameters. Be rest assured they know their stuff more than you do.
@@spuddo123 Asking the mfr to provide their recommendation is pretty good. It does remove a rider subjective choice variable. But if the riders are familiar with the terrain, they may actually know which tire (or compound/casing) suits the terrain best from all the options. And, riders vary in their preference for casing suppleness/tread conformity, although better & more aggressive descenders tend to want firmer casings. I'm light in body weight and prefer to ride light on the trail. I don't use DH casings unless I'm on a DH bike. Most times I'd rather use EXO or EXO+ over DD. And so I'm used to flexible casings and tend to find DD and DH casings too firm and the tires too heavy/slow for most of my riding. That would affect my impressions if I were to run a test like Vital did above. Longwinded I know but I think there's some subjectivity that gets left out when the mfr chooses the casing and compound, without knowing the riders' own tendencies/preferences.
For my rocky/rooty terrain here in Ottawa, Canada, I have a 2.6 Minion DHR II rear and 2.6 Minion DHF front on my Yeti SB165 and a 2.4 DHR II Double Down on the rear and a 2.5 Assegai DH on the front. I ran Kenda Nevegals forever, but am quite happy with the Maxxis tires. I'm sure all of these tires are great when brand new and ridden at the right PSI, but hey, I'm not a pro, haha! Cheers
Im running Mazza's front and rear atm, and came to them from a Mary/ Dampf combo previously, and have to say, I love the Mazzas for the type riding I do. I have not suffered any washouts on the front, and rear grips well in all terrains. I'm a big unit, and have to be careful on tire choice, but hit the jackpot with these
I have a bike with the Mazza trail rated tire in 27.5 x 2.6 and it's my favorite tire for here in Minnesota and also when I go to Bentonville. I also like the Specialized Butcher which wasn't tested here.
The Mazza Trail is highly ignored for some reason. The 2.4 is the fastest rolling tire I've ever used that still holds in the turns and you can't go wrong with Vittoria's Graphene layers
Why did you assume the best pressure for a tyre is the same pressure for all tyres? I’m not here to tell you what the right pressure is. I’m not here to moan about trivial details. I’m just here to say that all other things being equal, the pressure in a tyre requires tuning for best performance for each specific tyre. The difference is discernible even by an average rider. Most of the decisions made in your time consuming test to focus on each tyre to make a meaningful comparison are reasonable and justifiable. Using a single tyre pressure for all the tyres is an error. I know it mucks up your aim for the test, but that’s a problem we share and ignoring it “for the show” degrades the outcome.
there is no meaningful comparisons if you use various tires with various compounds, and then use them with same pressure and on one type of terrain.... some tires are jack of all trades master of none like assegai, others like more specific terrains such as magic marry, michelin..... :)
Agreed and well said. Like my DH bike I'm driving a difference of 7psi from my trail bike, which is a pretty significant difference. And even the same category tire but different brand has some variability.
yes, but it is extremely hard to quantify such variances, making the test extremely difficult and tedious to do; each person would have slightly different pressures due to weight differences etc. Finally, the variance might have had some impact, but it'd be rather small and again difficult to quantify. Since the majority of the tyres were trail-enduro category, it's a reasonable parameter to standardize and focus on other more important and quantifiable variables such as feel based on fixed pressures.
Why do you compare DD Casing Maxxis with super grip with a Magic Mary trail casing with just the soft compound and not the super gravity super soft...? Doesnt seems fair.
The Vee came on my Marin SQ and for a tire I haven't really heard of, I was really impressed, so it doesn't surprise me it came out on top here. On my full squish I have the MM and have no complaints. I find it very comparable to the Vee and am glad to see it was also a top pic. I ride loamy to hard pack with some mud. Haven't put them through the rocks yet but that's coming soon.🙃
i've run 4 of that bunch... had high hopes for the Mazza but after slamming twice in loose sand, i moved on to the Hutchinson Griffus and now the Conti Kryptotal F i've got the conti's dialed in at 22 rear, 19 front. seems to be perfect for trail casing R and enduro F, for my weight and terrain.
How can you fairly compare tires when you don't get the same application casing and rubber compound for each tires ? Totally pointless test... I really like your content but this one doesn't make any sense at all for me !
It's the videos like this that I enjoy the most. You made mistake with Schwalbe - needed to go for Gravity casing since your did the similar with all others but all in all very informative video and I can't wait for sequel - rear tires. Or maybe trail edition. Or XC edition, why not.
Loved the info, obviously an east coast or midwest trail would possibly flip the results. Brands have dropped quality control recently causing my old favorites to no longer make the list. Some brands are too small bead for spec for example or delaminate gum wall tire.
Been riding Vittoria tires for years (NH and WY/CO trails) and I am not surprised to see the Mazza up there. Probably the most predictable front tire I am surprised instead with the Vigilante, I had it once when it came on a used bike I got from a shop in AZ, i was super impressed with it. I tried Continentals (I currently have a set on one of my bikes) and they are quite disappointing. Overall, curious about trying the VEE if I come across one, but still sticking with VIttoria.
I think you would have enjoyed the Pirelli Scorpion Enduro S. vs your pick in choosing the M to test. Not saying it would be a clear winner but it is a good balance of fast rolling and decent traction.
I cannot find 4 casings and 6 compounds for the Wild AM2. I can find 4 tire sizes and 1 compound. Its cool to see the Vee Attack tire worked so well, I'm curious how the e13 Grappler would have done since it comes in the same MoPo compound and has a similar tread.
15:00 i Bet he never got near to the edge of the traction of the Assegai, that thing has traction FOR DAYS, it never stops to impress me, best tire ever made.
Can guarantee you that I’ve been far past that point. It’s a good tire, but isn’t the best for my riding style. The transition knobs and radial tread pattern make it difficult to tell where the edge of traction is when on a lean angle. Tires with a defined side knob and a bit of a channel work better for me, because I am not very heavy at 150 lbs and I can engage the side knobs without the transition knobs standing me up or making the front end push. For reference, I’ve raced National rounds and world cups on bontrager g5/g4’s, maxxis dhf’s, maxxis dhr2’s, maxxis shortys, maxxis high roller 2’s, onza aguila’s, specialized butchers, and maxxis assegai’s. The dhr2’s and high roller 2’s are my favorite out of those.
I never had great experiences with WTB, but still tempted to try the judge I love my IRC Tanken and Panaracer Swoop AT mullet combo the best so far Still tempted to try the pirelli and the vee attack and a couple other brands not mentioned here I ride allot of hard pack nand also loose over hard. Encounter allot of tacky/muddy and wet rock/roots so was looking for something thatll work well enough in everything vs switching out to a seasonal tire
it doesnt make any sense use the same pressure on a lighter chasing ( super trail magic mary ) and the other ones are gravity or dh, should've been an ultrasoft super gravity to match the others
I thought the same. They used a 40a compound for the Vee Tire, the 3C Maxx Grip for the Assegai, which are the softest compounds of the brands. I am sure the Magic Marry would ranked higher with Ultra Soft and Super Gravity tho.
And now the same tires month after riding loose over hard on wet roots and stones.. Its nice to have compound which can last a seasson in the front and not scrub it after few rides (historicly looking on you Schwalbe)
The only tires that seem to get tested are the stickiest tires ever and in mega DH sidewalls. This is a bit ridiculous IMHO because the Kryptotal Trail is far more durable with a heavy sidewall for a trail casing tire, sticky enough for a variety of conditions and affordable. I give the Kryptotal trail a 9.0 for dry, rocky, loamy, roots. Grip, durability, cornering and rolling resistance are excellent for burly trail tire. I also paired ti with a Xynotal on the rear which is similar to a Dissector. (I used to ride Assegai/Dissector and wanted to try something else at a lower price point).
Too much variability between trail casings. Enduro casings are more consistent across brands. Conti trail casing might be decent, but Maxxis EXO has a VERY short life expectancy on rocks and Schwalbe trail casing is even weaker. Meanwhile Vittoria trail casing is like other brands enduro casing and weighs just as much.
@@mrvwbug4423 Since this test was done I got Conti trail casing Kryptotal F and Xynotal for the rear. Put quite a few miles on them. The casings are much sturdier than EXO or EXO+. I haven't ridden DD so I can't compare. But they are very stout sidewalls and casing in the Trail version, to me at least. Like with energ8t above, they replaced Maxxis. Minion DHF Maxx Grip front, Dissector Maxx Terra rear. Both Maxxis in EXO casing. Big, noticeable difference in casing stoutness. And they roll quite a bit faster.
Im digging the Continental Kryptotal Re and Fr, way better than the Nobby Nicks they replaced, way more aggressive, faster rolling somehow, great grip, only downside is the added weight for climbs but they are cheaper too!
@@knott4me561 Especially the first version with the wimpy side knobs, that one was a nice XC tire but undergunned most anywhere else. I've seen more punctures out on the trail (others, not me) with the original NN than any other tire. They used to shed the side knobs easily on the 1st version too.
All this test proves is it should(somehow?) been done blind,the first guy saying the Pirelli waved a bit while cornering because of the offset shoulders!,come on,if he hadn't looked at the tyre he would never have thought that. I dont know how a blind test could be implemented but that way no personal preferences or pre conceived ideas would come into play,just how they actually perform
I have Kenda. Kenda sport nevegal 29 2 20 tires and I absolutely love them. Berms jumps and more don't stand a chance. I ride here at the trexler nature preserve in Allentown Pennsylvania. Check out the trail, Jack o diamonds, it's awesome. Return to Brian's trail is great to.
These conditions are so different from where I ride, its so dry and they run very had tyre pressures. Like 28 front seems crazy, I run 17psi in a maxxis shorty up front with an assegai rear at 22-24psi (both max grip). I live in scotland so it is wet and I need all the grip I can get 😂😂
Loose over hard is the default for most of the western US along with SoCal; Colorado and Utah except for Moab, GJ and Fruita are all loose over hard, same goes for basically all of Idaho, NM, AZ, and Wyoming too. They're not gonna find loamers within 1000mi of SoCal right now, NorCal, Oregon, Washington are all going to be mid-summer moon dust right now which rides like loose over hard. Moab, GJ, Fruita are mostly sand and slickrock, tire choice means jack there.
@@mrvwbug4423 Yes but loose over hard is different in SoCal than in WA, ID, MT, UT and CO. Fruita CO might be nearest I've ridden, for the same slipperiness over hard surface but SoCal takes the cake and then some for its concrete-like hardness under the slippery stuff. In my experience the only thing slicker is old hardened time-polished sandstone that you'll find on slabs throughout the central and southern Rockies. SW UT has some slabs like that, usually ones that sloughed off the bluff above and were incorporated into the trail. Virgin UT.
I'm running a 2.6 vigilante up front on a custom Mullet setup 2020 heckler, the side knob flex is more an issue here where I regularly ride (so. cal. dry loose hardpack), and it handled flow trail and santa cruz terrain under the canopy VERY well... now ill be looking or a more suitable Dry loose hardpack trail compatible front...
You tested the wrong WTB tire. The Verdict (2.5” Tough High Grip) is an order of magnitude better than the Vigilante, especially on Alpine loose over hard pack as we have here in northern Utah.
I'll check back when you do a review on fast rolling 2.4 and greater size tires. Focusing on rolling resistance and weight. This is of little interest as my conditions don't warrant heavy, tall knob, slower rolling tire use.
Which MTB Front Tire impressed us in wet fall to spring conditions... loose soil/mud with sketchy, greasy roots and rocks. Love to see that comparison!
For fun, you should have included Specilized Ground Control (s-works, 2.1). Just to see the difference of how a lightweight xc tire felt vs. enduro tires...
Might have to try the Mazza then. It’s priced similar to the assegai maxxgrip too. My Marin came with the Vee hpl enduro top40. 🤔 rubber doesn’t feel real soft to me, I find it kinda slippery
Ran the Mazza myself on two bikes, absolutely fantastic tire. Loving WTB Verdict front and Trail Boss rear these days as well. Trying out a Hillbilly next, but seriously, The Mazza is an excellent tire.
My wheels are ENVE M7's or 735....I run 27.5" wheels with 2.6" tires. I'm a big fan of Vittoria E-Agarro. I run 20 lbs in the rear and 18 lbs in the front No Liners as is Enve's Recommendation!!
Yes, perfect tire for loose/loamy/rocky/steep conditions IMO. I haven't not used the current Verdict with the updated casing and tread design. I don't know why Vital tested the Vigilante instead of the new Verdict...
V at 40a duo similar to the old highroller super tacky, wonder how long it would last? MM still doesn't last, Kryptotal seems to be lasting well. interesting the cheapest tyres had the high scores.
![You'll HATE it but these 4 "Inside-Out" Cornering Drills ELIMINATE DH/Enduro washouts forever [4K]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vQb2UInYlrU/mqdefault.jpg)
![You'll HATE it but these 4 "Inside-Out" Cornering Drills ELIMINATE DH/Enduro washouts forever [4K]](/img/tr.png)
It would be nice to see a Blind or double-blind test to remove bias.
Bias is best explained explicitly, honestly, accurately. You can't get rid of it in a tire test. All you can do is hope the riders are open with themselves and the audience about their existing review findings.
I think also that biases such as square vs radial profile can be "off," because while experience with many tires & treads can tell you what you like, I don't think it's always as simple as square vs radial profile, or whether side knobs are staggered. Correlation is not causation, even though correlation is what many of us use daily when we compare things
Blind riding? 😝🫣
@@MrEtnie 😂
@@MrEtnie It's the ultimate test!
@@seanoneil277 Wiki = In a blind or blinded experiment, information which may influence the participants of the experiment is withheld until after the experiment is complete. Good blinding can reduce or eliminate experimental biases that arise from a participants' expectations, observer's effect on the participants, observer bias, confirmation bias, and other sources.
I wasn't saying anything about causation/correlation. Right from the start of the video, people are asked which tire/brand they prefer, so bias is immediately built into this review/test. I was trying to say it would be nice if the reviewers didn't know which brand/tire they were riding until after the review.
I imagine Continental sent the DH casing because its the only casing with the super soft compound. They need to make the enduro and trail casings with the super soft compound. Running that Conti DH casing at the same pressures as the thinner casings from the other brands is unfortunate, it doesn't need the higher pressure. Conti has great design with their new tire line and great quality control, but their bike tire product management seems to be run like a large corporate automotive tire mfg. They need more options on casing and compound.
Ya im 160lbs on 55lb ebike running 20 psi front 25 psi rear Conti Argotal DH 2.4 Soft, mullet wheels.
Agreed, I think the Enduro casing would have been a better comparison, even with the harder soft compound.
I think they got robbed.
I love the dh cased continental tires on my dh and enduro bike.
No 26" either. They have given up on us :(
@@Atosark Kryptotal Front and Rear are both on Contis website in 26x2.4. I have no idea where to order them from though.
Interesting to leave PSI the same across the board even though the casing strength is different. I just got the Contis with the DH super soft and noticed I can run it 2 PSI less then my Assegai DD Maxx Grip. That would also help with some of the criticism brought up with it feeling stiff. I will agree about getting it on edge, this past weekend after about 8 rides I've finally got it figured out.
I’m running the same tyre, my normal 21 psi made the tyre feel harsh for me, dropped to 18 and loving it
Also, the Conti 2.6 tires have a tread width narrower than the Assegai 2.5, so using the 2.4 vs the Assegai 2.5 is a bit of a difference. I want to use a enduro casing 2.6 with supersoft compound, when they (hopefully) come out.
Considering the Schwalbe Magic Mary was probably one of the lightest tires there with it's Supertrail casing with soft compound it did surprisingly well. I think you all would have been very impressed with the Super Gravity/ Ultra Soft MM.
Magic Marys rock i have tried other tires but for uk riding where its nearly always wet i love my Marys but i might pick up a Vittoria tire to see whats up and also i run their tire inserts front and back and there great i had in cheap pipe insulators before i got the Vittoria inserts and the pipe insulators worked and gave good rim protection and sidewall performance but the Vittoria inserts were much better and a bit lighter
Vigilante is my current fave! I live on the North Coast of BC so I ride everything from mucky wet to dry rocky terrain when I go inland. The WTB tough casings are sweet.
They should have incorporated some woodland trail testing as well. Dry, hard pack trails are fun on any tyre. 🤷🏻♂️
Also, you gotta play with your pressures if you’re changing between casings.
There really aren't any moist, woodland trails in SoCal where they were testing.
@@mrvwbug4423 I spent time in SoCal a few years ago. Trail surfaces are like concrete with dust & tiny-grain gravel in most places. Deep ruts from surface water and trail traffic. Braking bumps also like concrete. Did I say it's slippery? And to me the surface isn't predictably slippery, but maybe that's because I haven't ridden it enough.
It made me ride more cautiously than I'm used to, and made me want MaxxGrip front and rear despite rolling resistance.
SoCal trails remind me of the MTB equivalent of skiing hardpacked manmade snow. About the direct opposite of nice fluffy snow or grippy groomers.
@@seanoneil277Good analogy with the snow. Especially since a lot of us ski in the off season.
@@justinlascala2288 Thanks man, glad it helped. I've spent a lot of time on snow and dirt over the past 25 years, and a fair amount before that too. SoCal trails are their own brand of sketchy IMO. I'd have to learn to love drifting if I lived there. And I'm a carver.
I did a bit of tire testing about a decade ago, back when DHR II was developed. High Roller 2, Aspen, Ardent Race, and a handful of CST models too. It was a great learning process not just about tires and tread/compound differences, but also casing and PSI sensitivities. I have to thank Bryan Holwell for the opportunity and what he taught me.
Funky trivia: the coolest, best tire I tested back then was a 26" ADVantage in 2.4" super tacky with a proto of what ended up EXO casing. I think they later sold them for maybe 2 seasons.
Actually they are the most difficult in terms of grip, which is why the aussies can corner so well. I personally trust deep slop more than loose over hardpack conditions..
For a lot of us, rolling resistance and weight are pretty important as well.
Anyone who pedals themselves, agreed 😂
I mean many people pedal for an hour for a 6 minute descent and go full coil and dh casing
@@thicccboyztv That's where it's at. The others who are weight weenies should be looking at XC tires, not enduro tires. You aren't even timed in the uphill sections.
I'm on the Kryptos but with the Enduro casing and so far I love them for summer riding in BC. Over the winter I was on Magic Mary's, ultra soft with super gravity casing which I also loved in the wet/variable conditions.
The Kryptotal FR Trail casing is also pretty burly and sticky enough for most trail conditions. Def worth trying if your local trails call for it.
Good test, love to see strong competition from the non-traditional MTB suppliers. Next time though, please adjust PSI based on compound and riding type. Otherwise you'll blame the tire for being vague, but it's just overpumped for a DD while the rider is leaning too far back...
Been riding that Vittoria Mazza front and rear for a couple years now. Best kept secret in mtb tires imo.
totally
it kills me to see this tire getting so popular, but it seems like availability has at least gotten better. Mazza is hands-down my favorite aggressive tire I’ve ridden over 30 years of mountain biking. Their Agarro is my go to trail tire. I’m going to try the new Continentals and I’ve heard good things about Vee, but across the brand, no tire company beats Vittoria in my book when combining performance, cost, and quality
@@SprSonik13 same feeling. At least like you said supply is better now.
2.6f / 2.4 rear in trail casing. Best trail bike setup by far.
All my bikes are riding Mazza from vittoria. Loving them. Ride the tyre a bit lower in PSI, as are super thick in sidewall. Last 2x longer than maxxis. Happy days
Yeppp. I have tried many different things and I still love those the most, especially when things get off-camber.
I love how your test trails are right in my backyard. I ride those trails everyday
Add some Specialized tires next time! Or some direct to consumer options like Delium or Versus 🤟
Lol. Actually surprised they didn’t include Specialized…because their Specialized.
Also Hutchinson and Teravail.
The Butcher is an awesome front tire ...
Fantastic video, have watched this over and over since you guys released it. Would be great to redo this test on more East coast types of soil (or at least looser Santa Cruz) trails. New Michelin Wild look intriguing as well.
Another great review. And we get the option of simply viewing each tire in it's own review. Short, concise and packed with information. Bravo.
I actually do care equally about front and rear tires because climbing is such a big part of my riding, but I can admit that the front tire is more important for safety while descending. When your tire slips climbing it sucks, but at least you’re not going to crash as a result (normally)
I've run that Enduro 4c Mazza on the Rear of my Slash and it was awesome!
Rolls fast for a heavy 2ply tyre and lasted 2x as many KM's as a MaxxTerra DHR II - and I'm actually still using it on my HT (gets all the hand-me-downs).
Vittoria have now released the Mazza Race (1c) which I'm keen to try on the front in-place of my usual MaxxGrip Assegai.
Great vid. So helpful to hear from 3of you. Weight, style and preferences help with hearing different opinions. Really impressed. Gonna try the V and Mazza for sure.
Great test, thanks for all the effort putting it together. Would be awesome to see a wet conditions edition.
Great Reviews. Guarantee nobody was thinking Vee and Vittoria would score highest in test.
Vittoria is absolutely smashing it in Europe. Where Schwalbe was the go to brand, this has now become Vittoria.
been running a mazza front and rear now for over a year and I was floored by how good it was and how long it has lasted. I really wanted to get my hands on some contis to test but I am overall happy with my Mazzas.
@@shamewizard3187 it's almost as if it has been so heavily marketed by GMBN... 😂
I bought some lighter vittorias for my Trailbike - mainly because i liked the Look.
I was surprised how good they felt and got the mazza for my E-Enduro. Love them ever since! And they last so long!
The Vee was the surprise. I've ridden the Mazza before and it's flat out the best cornering tire I've ever ridden.
Thanks for the great review. Nice you dont have too much rain there. I happed to live in very rainy country, so winter is grip on ice done by spokes. And most of the year the wider the tire the better it handles soft mud holes without sinking too much in.
This is a fantastic comparison video - well done
This is the best tire review video I’ve seen. Mainly because I ride the same trails in this video so I can get a better idea of how you guys explain the tires. I would love to see reviews on the Specialized Butcher, Delium and Basanite 👏🏽👏🏽
Best front tire content on the planet. Also, who else notices how stable Zeb is? lol
I prefer the Zeb over the 38 (ultimate vs factory), all day. Zeb is just so much smoother, easier to dial in, and frankly, I like the looks better.
Nice work guys.
While uniform PSIs does help in a data-sorting sense, I'm sure each of the riders here knows that PSI changes can affect tire handling characteristics, and the chosen PSIs may not have been optimal for rider, pace, terrain.
I think it would be great to have similar testing done on the lighter casing versions of the tires, for actual trail riding done by the great majority of riders. I don't know anyone personally who runds DH casings on their trail bikes. And trail casings + DH tread patterns ride differently than DH casings with the same tread. More squirm of tread vs casing in the lighter casing versions and PSI gets very critical with lighter casings.
Umm, how was my trail work? Like the new kicker on berms? Looks like you had fun. You're welcome. Good to see you back in SD.
These tires are starting to get so similar, especially between all Enduro and DH styles, that I'm starting to wonder how many riders would actually notice the differences. Not complaining though, makes it easier to find available tires with a wider range of similar tires. Just my opinion
Love both my Kryptotals and Michelins. Flip coin htwn the two- and knob pattern totally diff btwn them. Bith hook up excellently and no washouts if I ride reasonably. No DH casings. The typical rider only needs trail casing. Side support and firm corner knobs are most important to me.
Could be a blind test, scrapping the brand on the tire and doing the test.
They can tell exactly what tire they're running by the thread pattern
@@XavieRibeiro25double blind test, no lables and blind fold the testers so they can't see the tread
@@comeridewithmeAE😂😂😂
Put big fenders on. Take off blindfold once rider is on bike.
@@joerivers1716 that's the real way to do it haha
Would have liked to see how the correct version of the Continental Kryptotal would have stacked up.
Obviously the DH was not suited to the task.
The company was contacted and given the terrain, track, and conditions they'll get tested on and they provided the tires that's best suited for said parameters. Be rest assured they know their stuff more than you do.
Vital literally contacted the company and asked which is the best tire, but sure it was OBVIOUSLY the wrong tire for the conditions
Literally every review of the Kryptotal says get the DH casing and don't bother with the rest.
@@spuddo123 Asking the mfr to provide their recommendation is pretty good. It does remove a rider subjective choice variable.
But if the riders are familiar with the terrain, they may actually know which tire (or compound/casing) suits the terrain best from all the options.
And, riders vary in their preference for casing suppleness/tread conformity, although better & more aggressive descenders tend to want firmer casings.
I'm light in body weight and prefer to ride light on the trail. I don't use DH casings unless I'm on a DH bike. Most times I'd rather use EXO or EXO+ over DD. And so I'm used to flexible casings and tend to find DD and DH casings too firm and the tires too heavy/slow for most of my riding. That would affect my impressions if I were to run a test like Vital did above.
Longwinded I know but I think there's some subjectivity that gets left out when the mfr chooses the casing and compound, without knowing the riders' own tendencies/preferences.
For my rocky/rooty terrain here in Ottawa, Canada, I have a 2.6 Minion DHR II rear and 2.6 Minion DHF front on my Yeti SB165 and a 2.4 DHR II Double Down on the rear and a 2.5 Assegai DH on the front. I ran Kenda Nevegals forever, but am quite happy with the Maxxis tires. I'm sure all of these tires are great when brand new and ridden at the right PSI, but hey, I'm not a pro, haha! Cheers
Im running Mazza's front and rear atm, and came to them from a Mary/ Dampf combo previously, and have to say, I love the Mazzas for the type riding I do. I have not suffered any washouts on the front, and rear grips well in all terrains. I'm a big unit, and have to be careful on tire choice, but hit the jackpot with these
I have a bike with the Mazza trail rated tire in 27.5 x 2.6 and it's my favorite tire for here in Minnesota and also when I go to Bentonville.
I also like the Specialized Butcher which wasn't tested here.
The Mazza Trail is highly ignored for some reason. The 2.4 is the fastest rolling tire I've ever used that still holds in the turns and you can't go wrong with Vittoria's Graphene layers
Got WTB Vigilante 29x2.3 for my 2022 Patrol 094 n it's not only great for loam n sandy, but also in tarmac.
Why did you assume the best pressure for a tyre is the same pressure for all tyres? I’m not here to tell you what the right pressure is. I’m not here to moan about trivial details. I’m just here to say that all other things being equal, the pressure in a tyre requires tuning for best performance for each specific tyre. The difference is discernible even by an average rider. Most of the decisions made in your time consuming test to focus on each tyre to make a meaningful comparison are reasonable and justifiable. Using a single tyre pressure for all the tyres is an error. I know it mucks up your aim for the test, but that’s a problem we share and ignoring it “for the show” degrades the outcome.
there is no meaningful comparisons if you use various tires with various compounds, and then use them with same pressure and on one type of terrain.... some tires are jack of all trades master of none like assegai, others like more specific terrains such as magic marry, michelin..... :)
Agreed and well said. Like my DH bike I'm driving a difference of 7psi from my trail bike, which is a pretty significant difference. And even the same category tire but different brand has some variability.
Every Maxxis rider ever: "I gave it a few more points overall because it has really loud yellow labeling".
Why is there no overall summary?
Rolling resistance or speed was not discussed either which I was also looking for.
Thanks. Learned a lot, never looked into vee or mazza really
Imo the only issue here was using control-pressure...not fair since having different casing on different tires
yes, but it is extremely hard to quantify such variances, making the test extremely difficult and tedious to do; each person would have slightly different pressures due to weight differences etc.
Finally, the variance might have had some impact, but it'd be rather small and again difficult to quantify. Since the majority of the tyres were trail-enduro category, it's a reasonable parameter to standardize and focus on other more important and quantifiable variables such as feel based on fixed pressures.
Why do you compare DD Casing Maxxis with super grip with a Magic Mary trail casing with just the soft compound and not the super gravity super soft...? Doesnt seems fair.
It's based on what the tire manufacturer sent them. They asked the manufacturers to send what they thought worked best in SoCal conditions.
@@mrvwbug4423 ok ty
The Vee Tire tread pattern reminds me of one of my favourite tires of all time, the IRC Kujo DH.
The Vee came on my Marin SQ and for a tire I haven't really heard of, I was really impressed, so it doesn't surprise me it came out on top here. On my full squish I have the MM and have no complaints. I find it very comparable to the Vee and am glad to see it was also a top pic. I ride loamy to hard pack with some mud. Haven't put them through the rocks yet but that's coming soon.🙃
i've run 4 of that bunch... had high hopes for the Mazza but after slamming twice in loose sand, i moved on to the Hutchinson Griffus and now the Conti Kryptotal F
i've got the conti's dialed in at 22 rear, 19 front. seems to be perfect for trail casing R and enduro F, for my weight and terrain.
How can you fairly compare tires when you don't get the same application casing and rubber compound for each tires ?
Totally pointless test...
I really like your content but this one doesn't make any sense at all for me !
Great stuff,i hope a wet and loose conditions comparison video is on the way
And not a single specialized tire tested. Maxxis is so HYPED!
Love the slow mo!!!!
Best MTB content on the net
It's the videos like this that I enjoy the most. You made mistake with Schwalbe - needed to go for Gravity casing since your did the similar with all others but all in all very informative video and I can't wait for sequel - rear tires.
Or maybe trail edition. Or XC edition, why not.
Loved the info, obviously an east coast or midwest trail would possibly flip the results. Brands have dropped quality control recently causing my old favorites to no longer make the list. Some brands are too small bead for spec for example or delaminate gum wall tire.
Hi Vital, are you making a video for MTB back tire as well?
Been riding Vittoria tires for years (NH and WY/CO trails) and I am not surprised to see the Mazza up there. Probably the most predictable front tire I am surprised instead with the Vigilante, I had it once when it came on a used bike I got from a shop in AZ, i was super impressed with it. I tried Continentals (I currently have a set on one of my bikes) and they are quite disappointing. Overall, curious about trying the VEE if I come across one, but still sticking with VIttoria.
I’m in az and the best rider I know, like top ten on many strava segments ONLY runs vigilante.
About the review on the Vee attack tire. It said you tested the 29 X 2.6. Is this correct? I’d like to try this tire. I can’t find it in a 2.6. 27:51
I think you would have enjoyed the Pirelli Scorpion Enduro S. vs your pick in choosing the M to test. Not saying it would be a clear winner but it is a good balance of fast rolling and decent traction.
Great tyre is the s
I agree. The S wouldve been a better comparison!
Great test
But missing one important!
Rolling speed
And and some Kenda like the pinner pro
I'm running DHF/Dissector and they're completely unchallenged with my skills :D
I cannot find 4 casings and 6 compounds for the Wild AM2. I can find 4 tire sizes and 1 compound. Its cool to see the Vee Attack tire worked so well, I'm curious how the e13 Grappler would have done since it comes in the same MoPo compound and has a similar tread.
Is there a similar rear tire comparison coming up?
15:00 i Bet he never got near to the edge of the traction of the Assegai, that thing has traction FOR DAYS, it never stops to impress me, best tire ever made.
Can guarantee you that I’ve been far past that point. It’s a good tire, but isn’t the best for my riding style. The transition knobs and radial tread pattern make it difficult to tell where the edge of traction is when on a lean angle. Tires with a defined side knob and a bit of a channel work better for me, because I am not very heavy at 150 lbs and I can engage the side knobs without the transition knobs standing me up or making the front end push. For reference, I’ve raced National rounds and world cups on bontrager g5/g4’s, maxxis dhf’s, maxxis dhr2’s, maxxis shortys, maxxis high roller 2’s, onza aguila’s, specialized butchers, and maxxis assegai’s. The dhr2’s and high roller 2’s are my favorite out of those.
Great review! You guys forgot about the Butcher.
I never had great experiences with WTB, but still tempted to try the judge
I love my IRC Tanken and Panaracer Swoop AT mullet combo the best so far
Still tempted to try the pirelli and the vee attack and a couple other brands not mentioned here
I ride allot of hard pack nand also loose over hard.
Encounter allot of tacky/muddy and wet rock/roots so was looking for something thatll work well enough in everything vs switching out to a seasonal tire
it doesnt make any sense use the same pressure on a lighter chasing ( super trail magic mary ) and the other ones are gravity or dh, should've been an ultrasoft super gravity to match the others
I agree
I thought the same. They used a 40a compound for the Vee Tire, the 3C Maxx Grip for the Assegai, which are the softest compounds of the brands. I am sure the Magic Marry would ranked higher with Ultra Soft and Super Gravity tho.
@@quiet-Shadow indeed
It like if they picked a dual compound exo assegai
It just doesn’t match with the others
This ☝️was wondering exactly the same…
And now the same tires month after riding loose over hard on wet roots and stones.. Its nice to have compound which can last a seasson in the front and not scrub it after few rides (historicly looking on you Schwalbe)
Wish you would have tried the new Cannibal for Spesh.. super curious to try it..
Magic mary 2.4 super gravity ultra soft 👌👌
Why didn't you mention weight? I think the tires should all be close in weight. Super Trail vs DH tires?
The only tires that seem to get tested are the stickiest tires ever and in mega DH sidewalls. This is a bit ridiculous IMHO because the Kryptotal Trail is far more durable with a heavy sidewall for a trail casing tire, sticky enough for a variety of conditions and affordable. I give the Kryptotal trail a 9.0 for dry, rocky, loamy, roots. Grip, durability, cornering and rolling resistance are excellent for burly trail tire. I also paired ti with a Xynotal on the rear which is similar to a Dissector. (I used to ride Assegai/Dissector and wanted to try something else at a lower price point).
Too much variability between trail casings. Enduro casings are more consistent across brands. Conti trail casing might be decent, but Maxxis EXO has a VERY short life expectancy on rocks and Schwalbe trail casing is even weaker. Meanwhile Vittoria trail casing is like other brands enduro casing and weighs just as much.
@@mrvwbug4423 Since this test was done I got Conti trail casing Kryptotal F and Xynotal for the rear. Put quite a few miles on them. The casings are much sturdier than EXO or EXO+. I haven't ridden DD so I can't compare. But they are very stout sidewalls and casing in the Trail version, to me at least.
Like with energ8t above, they replaced Maxxis. Minion DHF Maxx Grip front, Dissector Maxx Terra rear. Both Maxxis in EXO casing. Big, noticeable difference in casing stoutness. And they roll quite a bit faster.
Conclusion of Results and Scores at 36:09 guys..
that vee tire has the center knob of an assegai and a side knob of a minions which is a win win!!
Magic Mary ( ultrasoft) and Michelin DH 34 Magy X are my favorites front tires , Assegai is grippy , but on bone dry only ...but that's me.
Im digging the Continental Kryptotal Re and Fr, way better than the Nobby Nicks they replaced, way more aggressive, faster rolling somehow, great grip, only downside is the added weight for climbs but they are cheaper too!
Nn possibly the worst mtb tyre ever made
@@knott4me561 yeah not exactly a meaningful comparison
@@knott4me561 Especially the first version with the wimpy side knobs, that one was a nice XC tire but undergunned most anywhere else. I've seen more punctures out on the trail (others, not me) with the original NN than any other tire. They used to shed the side knobs easily on the 1st version too.
All this test proves is it should(somehow?) been done blind,the first guy saying the Pirelli waved a bit while cornering because of the offset shoulders!,come on,if he hadn't looked at the tyre he would never have thought that. I dont know how a blind test could be implemented but that way no personal preferences or pre conceived ideas would come into play,just how they actually perform
Kenda hellkat front pinner rear ❤
I have Kenda. Kenda sport nevegal 29 2 20 tires and I absolutely love them. Berms jumps and more don't stand a chance. I ride here at the trexler nature preserve in Allentown Pennsylvania. Check out the trail, Jack o diamonds, it's awesome. Return to Brian's trail is great to.
Best front tyre, hands down... 27.5 Magic Mary 🤘
Rear tyre... Big Betty followed by High Roller II 👌
These conditions are so different from where I ride, its so dry and they run very had tyre pressures. Like 28 front seems crazy, I run 17psi in a maxxis shorty up front with an assegai rear at 22-24psi (both max grip). I live in scotland so it is wet and I need all the grip I can get 😂😂
I can't even imagine putting an Assegai anywhere close to my rear wheel. :O But, I suppose that's why they make more than one tire. :)
A full review in a multitude of conditions would be great.
What percentage of riders ride Southern California flow trails?
Not I
I have to explore more of my local trails. I'm just getting back into the sport
Loose over hard is the default for most of the western US along with SoCal; Colorado and Utah except for Moab, GJ and Fruita are all loose over hard, same goes for basically all of Idaho, NM, AZ, and Wyoming too. They're not gonna find loamers within 1000mi of SoCal right now, NorCal, Oregon, Washington are all going to be mid-summer moon dust right now which rides like loose over hard. Moab, GJ, Fruita are mostly sand and slickrock, tire choice means jack there.
@@mrvwbug4423 Yes but loose over hard is different in SoCal than in WA, ID, MT, UT and CO. Fruita CO might be nearest I've ridden, for the same slipperiness over hard surface but SoCal takes the cake and then some for its concrete-like hardness under the slippery stuff. In my experience the only thing slicker is old hardened time-polished sandstone that you'll find on slabs throughout the central and southern Rockies. SW UT has some slabs like that, usually ones that sloughed off the bluff above and were incorporated into the trail. Virgin UT.
I'm running a 2.6 vigilante up front on a custom Mullet setup 2020 heckler, the side knob flex is more an issue here where I regularly ride (so. cal. dry loose hardpack), and it handled flow trail and santa cruz terrain under the canopy VERY well... now ill be looking or a more suitable Dry loose hardpack trail compatible front...
I’d be interested to know how the dhr2 and krypto rear perform as front tires?
Most underrated tyre: Specialized Butcher Grid Trail T9.
Specialized tires are just like their bikes, trash.
Yeah if you like eating dirt
Agreed
While the new one is miles better than the older one ,the butcher trad pattern is not on paar.6/10
Wrong
You tested the wrong WTB tire. The Verdict (2.5” Tough High Grip) is an order of magnitude better than the Vigilante, especially on Alpine loose over hard pack as we have here in northern Utah.
I'll check back when you do a review on fast rolling 2.4 and greater size tires. Focusing on rolling resistance and weight. This is of little interest as my conditions don't warrant heavy, tall knob, slower rolling tire use.
Nice test guys but all the tires should have the same width to make it fair.
Did I miss the rum width? And no Bontrager or Specialized?
Which MTB Front Tire impressed us in wet fall to spring conditions... loose soil/mud with sketchy, greasy roots and rocks. Love to see that comparison!
For fun, you should have included Specilized Ground Control (s-works, 2.1). Just to see the difference of how a lightweight xc tire felt vs. enduro tires...
Might have to try the Mazza then. It’s priced similar to the assegai maxxgrip too. My Marin came with the Vee hpl enduro top40. 🤔 rubber doesn’t feel real soft to me, I find it kinda slippery
Vittoria do great in the dry. In the wet...you'll miss that maxxgrip.
Ran the Mazza myself on two bikes, absolutely fantastic tire. Loving WTB Verdict front and Trail Boss rear these days as well. Trying out a Hillbilly next, but seriously, The Mazza is an excellent tire.
Schwalbe all the way for me tried nearly every type !
Nice review! Are you guys in San Diego? Ted Williams! ; )
My wheels are ENVE M7's or 735....I run 27.5" wheels with 2.6" tires. I'm a big fan of Vittoria E-Agarro. I run 20 lbs in the rear and 18 lbs in the front No Liners as is Enve's Recommendation!!
what about specialized butcher T9?
Was insightful but the whole time i kept thinking that they’re comparing each tire to their favorite tire, the one they became skilled on
Anyone tried wtb verdict? I think it's a better front tire compared to the vigilante. IMO
Yes, perfect tire for loose/loamy/rocky/steep conditions IMO. I haven't not used the current Verdict with the updated casing and tread design. I don't know why Vital tested the Vigilante instead of the new Verdict...
What trails were you guys riding? I live in SM and still hunting for new options.
I just use Maxxis DHF and DHRs. Heavy, but works well.
V at 40a duo similar to the old highroller super tacky, wonder how long it would last? MM still doesn't last, Kryptotal seems to be lasting well. interesting the cheapest tyres had the high scores.
Wouldve been nice to have the DHF on test.
Do you guys ride here a lot? Would be fun to put around out there with ya
Maybe you should’ve test the Wild enduros racing line front instead of AM2.