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TFS: The Truth About my Box Fan Downdraft Table
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- Опубликовано: 12 окт 2019
- I'll come clean about this table and how it actually works. I tore the table down to clean it and I found something pretty shocking about the way it functions.
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If all of the naysayers had their way nothing would get done and you can kiss innovation goodbye. Nice work on the table.
Dude, that table is a really cool design, and you made it from scratch, using cheap off the shelf stuff, and it freaking works. There is always gonna be some armchair quarterback out there who thinks he is better than everyone else, but I didn't see HIM make a better downdraft table. Talk is cheap, and the results speak for themselves. Well done!
One of the best mentors I've ever had said "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect one". This design is certainly "perfect enough" and has us considering where we'd put a slightly smaller one in our shop. While I liked the original video, the follow-up is just awesome. Thank you very much for both.
I expect we'd use it for small spray-painting jobs as well, though I'd ensure we used induction motors so the vapor would be less concerning than with brushed (sparky) motors. Might build some cabinets above or below just to use the volume better as long as it didn't interfere with the work.
@Barry Manilowa I think we the people held back by that perfectionism are not so ready to pass mediocre products, I like that saying and will use it.
Good is the enemy of perfection.
Too Proud to whitewash but too poor to paint. Good enough is functional like this table, if it works it works
I agree. Progress over perfection.
I’ve probably watched all the videos for this table a couple times I even showered them to my plant manager. I’ve been given the go ahead to start building one after thanksgiving.
How did it go ?
I just watched the build video before coming to this video, and there's one modification I would make.
The angled sections above the fans should extend a little bit more towards the middle. (sort of like a sheet metal awning) This would make sure the only stuff being sucked into the filters is the stuff that actually wants to float through the air.
Right now larger particles that would normally want to fall straight to the flooring will be sucked straight against the filters if they happen to pass too close.
Hi, this is Phil from St Helens, Merseyside, England, UK 🇬🇧, I learned welding in the late 1980's the only ventilation we had while learning was Onatural and a vacuum tube in a small welding bay. The nambie pambies can go and jump of a cliff because the down draft table you have made is saving your lungs from life time of damage and I applaud you with pride for making it, you have taken another step towards a safer work environment. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
The verdict: it’s working... 👏
You can’t say it’s not helping.
I've been wanting to build a downdraft table over on my channel for quite some time because the dust in my shop is horrible! Thanks for sharing this. You have helped me get motivated enough to start building one myself.
I'm new to welding/ fabrication. I've literally been amazed at the amount of useful and educational information out there. Thanks for the videos.
The ending reminded me of what someone once said to me. "There are only 3 kinds of people in this world, the kind that can count and the kind that can't." I did enjoy the initial build video and was pretty confident it would work as expected.
I dont comment alot on videos but i had to, good job TFS, your not only showing your skills and teaching us, youre showing important security/safety stuff, props to you and long live TFS, thanks again!
Thanks for not starting your video with "whazzup up RUclipsrs" Easy to watch - great editing and the vid lit a fire under many of us. Congrats buddy!
WOW! That was sure an eye opener. When I watched the build video, I kept thinking to myself 'yes, it may keep some of the dust down, but probably miss quite a bit' but after seeing this it really makes me realize just how much removing some, even if just a percentage of the total airborne particulate, can make a difference! I think I'm going to have to seriously put some consideration into building a table like you have... just gotta figure out where I can fit this thing in my small garage!
Thanks for taking the time to make this video. After a year of fab without respiator, I started getting sick. Blame it on a young welder/farmer mentality of "not really as bad as they say" and "I'm in an open shop" So much happier and healthier now, I wont work without my 3m 7500 respirator. The heavy metals in metal fab get to me quick if i don't wear it now. The last few years I feel so much better after working a long day in the shop. Keep up the good work!!
I watched the build of this table and now watched the results. I gotta be honest it worked just as I expected it to.
I was super surprised how much was in the pan, unless I vacuum my shop floor I would never be able to sweep my shop floor enough to get all that fine dust. And that stuff is harmful to shop equipment as well not just lung and eye contaminants.
Great videos, I love the content you put out. No BS. THANKS!!
I had to deal with stuff like this at my last factory welding job. As welders, we wanted air cleaners and exhaust fans in our building, to which management claimed itd cause issues with welding.
You dont need a million CFM to capture this stuff. You dont need a wind tunnel, and you dont need some form of high tech filters for this stuff. Most furnace filters have some form of fire resistance because of their intended location, and they're designed to filter out dust. The dust they're designed for is typically the product of cells, either dead skin cells, pollen, or whatever else, and these particulates are infinitesimally smaller than those particles produced from steel work.
Once you get into the soot, then I can see an argument, however, most of the soot from welding is charged, and typically sticks to whatever surface that opposes that natural charge, which is why the paneling has so much on it. I never doubted these filters would work, and if someones going to argue about fumes, no filter eliminates fumes. Even activated charcoal has its limits for fume reduction.
Keep up the awesome work!
I need to build one of these. The bottom of your table looks like my shop floor after a week of work. (My shop is only 9x6 for floor space)
Pre-credit I thought I'd accidentally been watching This Old Tony!
Everyone needs a vac-u-subscribe
Thought I was on TOT channel as well for some strange reason.
Yeah except I wasn’t picturing M*A*S*H in my head ...
Was looking for this comment😂😂
Now that's a compliment.
If it was me and I was designing a down draft table, I would add more baffles to the tank. In whats is referred to as a turbulent air filter. Its similar to what the dysons do. You create a series of barriers, that cause the larger particles to be flung out of the air. Due to the directional changes of the air in the baffles. Its a technique used in clean rooms to help remove the large particulates from the air. So that your filtration, media which is designed for fine particulates. That way your not loading up your filter media so quickly.
Btw have you also considered a version two with an improved clean out procedure. So that you can easily clean it out more often?
Other than that, i think something is better than nothing in this situation. So keep up the good work.
I KNEW IT WAS A GOOD IDEA! I really want one of my own. I don't have the room in my cramped shop, but I knew you were on the right track. Awesome Table Dude!
When it comes to personal safety and personal health; I say anything that reduces risk is a great thing. When I first saw the build video I thought that is cool and everyone should consider something like it. Now seeing the follow up my view is that it should be a mandatory tool in any shop. PPE is great if you can’t engineer the risk down or away. Justin as always you are a great communicator for the fabrication community.
You did a great job building this downdraft table in a way
that has inspired quite a few us especially after this second video showing how
well it works. I am trying to figure out
a way to build a smaller version for my garage when I am using my grinder and
sander since they produce so much dust. People
don’t realize how much fine partials are floating around in their shop when
they are using grinders and sanders especially how far away the partials
travel. This downdraft table has opened
my eyes on how to help keep the dust down when I am working. Thank you very much for sharing.
Great Videos in regards to the down-draft table and the reasons to use it. They absolutely work and what you built is a testament to your skills and creativity. Those who are negative are the type who will always look for ways to be negative. It's simple here - the down draft keeps your work space more orderly, improving safety from slips/trips/falls, build up of debris, and throwing grindings everywhere including into other pieces of equipment. From a personal safety perspective, this aids in improving safety by controlling the amount of debris your safety glasses, clothing, and respirator will be exposed to, by putting it down below in the chamber. This table is not a substitute for PPE, but an addition to your PPE.
Great job, Great Project, Great Message.
Your design is great. In welding and fabrication your always going to have know it alls or someone always telling you know they know better. I’d like to build one of these tables and will have one but I need it twice as big as this one. Man that’s amazing how much crap you kept out of your lungs and shop floor. Keep up the good work.
I have a box fan behind two layers of filters for my powder coating booth I built. It works very well. People seem to forget that the crap from grinding is heavier than air, and with just a slight pull will go down through the holes. Even without the fans, you’ll get a fair amount of that stuff down there. Only the very finest dust needs the fan. And since those particles are so small, a box fan is more than enough to pull them in.
Good work!
Proof is in the puddin! Or should I say, the filters! I liked your design from the get go and I knew it would work!!
Being a retired FF/EMT of over 25 years and been doing grinding and Fab work since 16. I have yet to set anything a fire by grinding! So I am pretty confident that it’s not going catch un fire due to a grinding spark! I would love to build this type for my shop. Great video !
Mate! I can assure you have done a hectic good job. Big thumbs up for you 👍👍👍
Nice to see the collector is working quite well based upon your initial design, It looks like a touchdown. Good job on keeping all that material off the floor, equipment and lungs. Would have loved to see it all on a white sheet of paper at the end for how much was there. Amazing!
I taught welding for the first 20 years of my career as and Industrial Arts Teacher. I really wanted to build one of these for the shop at my last job where welding was in the job description. Unfortunately by the time the idea came to me the school district stopped letting me buy supplies to teach the kids, and I left for greener pastures. I now teach wood shop and I enjoy it immensely. The one aspect I hate is the dust. Presently I am working hard to get all of the heavy dust producers in the shop connected to dust collection. And the district is not fighting me on any of it.
As far as the furnace filters go, I have built a permanent automotive spray paint booth in my personal shop. Both the inlet and discharge filters are common furnace filters. The system works awesome despite the fact that several people have told me that they would not work. To the nay sayers. say "Baugh! Humbug!".
Thanks for teaching. Metal and wood shop were my favorite classes in jr. high and I was looking forward to going that route in high school, but unfortunately the year I got to high school the district dropped all shop classes.
It's a shame but so many shop classes have had the same happen including my old school. My metalshop teacher did so much for his students and no doubt he changed tons of lives for the better by teaching kids like myself valuable skills. I just had no interest in school and if it wasn't for him I'd have dropped out, but instead he helped me slug through it.
I just posted about the setup I made for my spare bedroom workshop and it is what has allowed me to have one since I downsized to go sailing. My chamber is a catchall for my central vac and its also my work table for welding, painting and grinding. One thing I added that really helped was a small misting nozzle. It uses very little water but makes most of the dust drop to a pan in the bottom for easy cleaning.
Hmm the welding class at my daughter's school is amazing. They have a joint thing with the local university and their welding program. The kids get to take it at highschool and if they do well can go onto the university and have some awesome classes paid for by the district. She is currently taking a fabrication class for metal work/welding.
@@craigpeel5983 She's lucky, there is only one school in my county with shop classes left and it is the technical HS. My school closed down the metal shop when the teacher retired and the wood shop was right behind. Apparently it was too dangerous in the eyes of the school board.
@@southjerseysound7340 life is dangerous and the district just stopped any future fabricators able to help, what a terrible decision. The motivation was money and the cover story was safety I'm guessing.
This is awesome. As a woodworker I’ve used similar setups to control wood dust. Just the act of putting a filter on a box fan and letting it run free in the room will also pull particulate out of the air by a good amount.
That's a good idea to.
Really well done on this build! I hardly do any grinding but will build myself one of these when I outfit my shop after seeing this. And make something like this for my bench grinder.
The only change to this table I would make is a tapered base to make sweeping it out eazer. I only thought of that after seeing this video.
love it mate. once i have my shed up will be getting to work on something similar as well as a fixture table. love your channel. I am self taught in my welding and do blacksmithing as well. Keep up the good work
OMG!! I have been pushing my brothers for the last 10 years to wear masks when sanding. All of that metal dust would definitely have ended up in your lungs and those of anyone else around you. I am just starting in metal work and I have one respirator to wear in my metal shop and two respirators and disposable hazmat masks incase a friend stops by or my nephew. I gave him a set of keys to the shops so he can use them whenever he wants to. He's been doing work on his pickup and the plasma cutter speeds up the work. But I told him I would buy him a respirator, but he and any of his friends has to wear them or no shop privileges. I'm sorta the "cool aunt", he has been coming by on his own since he got his licence and I don't have children of my own, so its great when we can work together on something. Even his friends hang out here!
Kids that learn to create are much less likely to destroy ...their lives😂🤣. Keep being that cool aunt because what you give in knowledge is priceless.
Already sold on it. Wanted to see your design. Wow! No question that box fans and furnace filters work. Used then for diy spray booths. Moving my shop. This is on my must do work list.
Thanks!
The start of the video has a very strong TOT influence. I like it 😁
Box worked awsome, definitely will build one sooner than later. Thanks for the idea. Thanks for showing the clean up.
Apologies for being 3 years late to the party, I watched the Downdraft Table build which I thought was awesome, And your comments here in this Video just echo everything you said in that build, If after this proof that it definitely works, you still get the idiots in there comfy chairs giving you crap, I would just kick them to the curb for the air thiefs that they are. If when you started there were any doubts if it might work or not, you have proved to your self that it does work, (rather well it has to be said,) then you have achieved the objective, and that was, and is the only thing that matters. Well done and Kudos all around. Love and Respect from North Londo UK
This project may not suit all applications, but it is definitely proof of concept. This is something all fabricator/welders must take into consideration. You only get one set of lungs and it doesn't matter how tough you think you are, you can still suffer from serious respiratory issues from inhaling particulate matter. For small projects, this is ideal. For larger projects that don't fit on the table, respirators. Great job. I really enjoyed your video.
I'm amazed at how well the furnace filters captured the dust and kept it out of the box fans, which is important because if it went through the fans it would just be blowing out into the air around the table. I like the idea and plan to build my own. The only improvement I would suggest is a tapered floor with a central hopper to catch the big stuff and make cleaning a little easier.
Love the table brother! Ive got a shop vac that I rigged up for collecting dust and particles in my shop. But this table is the bees knees. Awesome job
Top work as usual and a justifiable project. Good for you !!
All I have to say is WOW!! I knew when I'm doing bigger projects the dust and crap I sweep up is a lot but one of these would definitely help!
I wanted one, now I'm going to build one, thanks for the follow through.
Pretty much as expected, great job! Was anyone else reminded of the anti-smoking adverts, etc, from back in the day, when they would have machines drawing in cigarette smoke through a filter that would get coated in ash, tar and other nasty stuff?
With the comments, bear in mind that it is really a first draft [sorry] and it is MUCH easier to see little things that might be better done differently - AFTER it is first made.
IIRC, I suggested standing the fans and shrouds back a little for more even flow through the filters, and raising the filter assemblies so the floor had an incline towards the dust tray, so vibration would move it down into the tray, for the Mk II machine.
Yep, you got me! I wasn't one of the doubters but had seen their comments about the fans not working. Saw the title of this video and thought "no way, were they right?" Of course not LoL. There was an impressive amount of dust in the bottom of that table and in the filters. Really cool follow up video.
Great build, great idea. I'm currently building this thing as a down draft/plasma cutting table that flushes.
I've always used a filtered mask when doing any grinding or welding. Often overlooked because the effects don't hit you until 30 years down the line when it's too late to know exactly how much damage you've done. I might look into making a table, looks like a cool project and one that would be so worthwhile in the long run!
I made a similar setup when I moved into a condo. I live and travel on my sailboat 8-10 months of the year and had to downsize. So the spare bedroom is now my workshop and dust and noise where my 2 BIGGEST issues. I use a table similar to this for everything from grinding to painting and without it I wouldn't have a shop to work in. Basically it is where my central vac dumps into from my machines and then I have a squirrel cage fan to vent everything up a spare dryer vent. It's a 2 step filter so to speak and keeps my room 98% dust free. The only thing I'd recommend is to get reusable/washable filters because I was going through them quite fast. Another thing I do is I have a small mister that catches a TON of dust before it can even reach a filter. I added it because I was afraid of sparks, but it really traps the crap inside.
You proved your point. Great build and serves an important purpose.
Great idea! Don’t even want to think about how much of that grinding duff has turned to concrete in my nose and gets taken out in the shower.
I have seen the floor and filters catch on fire. Mostly from heavy grinding without cleaning up often enough.
With the new ceramic grinding pads that can be hours not days. I like the 3M cubitron II s but they cut so fast you have be much more careful.
Love this project and it's now on my build list. Thanks Justin for your awesome videos. May I suggest doing a dedicated video on the precision laser tube company. When you built the welding table (also on my project list) I wanted to see more of that companies capabilities.
Justin keep up the videos I guess some people are just ignorant on how things work you are a very talented in what you due for a living I would have no problem asking for advice on designing or welding on any projects thanks for being onest on your vidios
Great table i watched the making of it and it was very inspirational and got me thinking keep it up and thank you
Nice build, we had a commercial unit at my last job great bits of kit, yours looks like it doing an excellent job.
"perhaps the 10mm is in here as well?" - which one? 😆
The 10mm socket of course....
Love the idea I am going to build one for my welding shop.
I have to to build one for my shop now! Holy cow. All that shmegma! That's so awesome. Great job, especially for people on budget. Shaina aka weldher
First off I enjoy your videos and projects and have learned a few things along the way. As an HVAC technician I have also learned a few things about air flow. Propeller fans do loose a large amount of air flow with resistance. That being said, in your design there is a fair amount to loose and still be effective. It is obviously drawing an adequate amount of air for the project design. One thing I would have done is to maximize the filter area by providing a spacer between the round hole and the filter. A 2" pleated filter would have probably filtered out some finer particles but may have had too much resistance. As far as catching on fire, as far as I can see all the particles were metal which would have to get really hot to combust. If it was saw dust you would likely have a problem with the dust combusting eventually. Overall I like the design and am trying to get my boss to allow me to make one, however I do anticipate push back because it does not filter the finer particles or vapor and may lead to a false sense of security even though it is far better than our current safeguards, liability laws are funny that way. Anyway nice video and nice table.
The only thing I could say it needs for improvement is a vertical baffle ahead of the filter. Since the majority of the "dust" is heavy it should fall to the floor before it ever makes it to the filter. It'll make it easier to clean too.
Great follow up video,yes being able to breath is not underrated, I've got two sons with asthma. Just a tip, buy the filters by the case and replace them on the first of every month, the benefits are huge.
nice work! great results!
Table is a great tool now. Love it!
Love the idea Justin. I am currently building s smaller version here in my home shop.
I rarely comment but I love your videos and projects. Might build something like this table, seems like a very good idea to keep the dust down.
I just discovered your channel and I'm loving it and this resource of knowledge!! Around the 8minute mark you mention that math is no myth and I would highly recommend you read Goedel Escher Bach because it really analyzes that thesis!
There will always be haters dude. I was so inspired by this video that i'm currently making my own version. I usually use a respirator so the lung issue isn't my concern. I'd just like to not waste so much time cleaning every time i drill, cut, grind anything! BTW your box fan idea moves the most litres per minute of air volume for the lowest cost. Box fans are cheaper & much quieter than any other exhaust fan on the market. They're only a problem if you need to duct them (which you dont here).
Excellent project mate, thank you!
Damn man. I always knew i was breathing some crap in while working but i think im definitely building one of these very very soon. Gonna for sure go back and watch the build on this about 30 more times!!
Anybody that has any experience in a, real shop, knows how much dust gets everywhere. Good job on your table. 👍
You inspired me to build a downdraft table. The only metal I bought was for the top, I used 3/8" bars placed on end so its also a plasma cutting table. I used louvered metal to protect the filters. Also made the clean out drawer full width. It works great. Cost $225.00 to build.
When I built a small portable box fan with a filter screen to set in my garage to run when I was working with my wood working tools (tablesaw drill press lathe and sanding station) I was shocked at the amount of dust it had collected. I’ve got a vacuum hooked up to all my tools but no air cleaner. After a month of use I pulled the screen and was blown away with how much crap it had pulled out of the air. Now I always wear my dust mask and run my 3 box fan air cleaners and my vacuum dust collection system when working in the garage.
Great video. It's really good to see someone go over a previous build honestly.
I can't see shat people are saying about the fire risk. That dusts not combustible enough.
I would say that with the filters having collected so much fine dust their efficiency will have dropped a lot and if that's a month of use you probably want to make that the minimum to replace them. I would mod up that front panel so you can do that easily and sweep out.
Great design and obviously effective. Carry on.
WOW 😮 this is really an eye opener, for a weekend diy er like myself!!!
Fantastic table, GREAT job!!
Great follow up vid it definitely works well
I haven't seen any videos of the build for this box fan thing, and I haven't looked for them if they exist, but the Spaceballs detail on the front is awesome.
Looks like your table is working like a champ. Cleaner air is always better!!!
That dust started out as sparks. Everything you are grinding is steel so it won't ignite. By the time a spark gets to the filter they will not be a glowing ember anymore as the movement of air is cooling it rapidly. Thanks for the video, it was very informative.
The dust is either sparks from the ground steel or Carbon from the blades. Either way your correct, a fire is very unlikely.
However: maybe its best not to use an extreemly low (sub-micron) particulate size filter - just catch the visible crap and let the tiny particulates flow through and out for somebody to breath in? Because - submicron dust is Explosive and it would be a real shame to overly & spontaniously enlarge the cabinet.
Good video 👍 and very well made points!
Love it.
Would change the filters to top slide out or front so that table does not have to be removed.
Maybe look into an industrial filter 2" . But looks that those are doing well.
Increase drop tray size.
Probably make a bit lower. I find waist height is usually good.
What I like about this is all the people in the comments saying "I'm a believer, I'm gonna build one, but I'm going to adapt it to MY needs." That's what a good creative DIY community is about, I believe; sharing and adapting.
Upgrade by putting a tiny motor on each filter frame with an offset weight to shake the dust off the filters
Cheat and put like a 5-10 gram stick-on wheel weight on one if the fan blades
Just enough to shake it but not enough to have it walk out the door
I started clearing the rust off my old Chevy pickup using poly abrasive discs on a grinder.
After less than a week I could feel my chest tighten up and started coughing.
Went out bought a respirator and not had issues since.
End of the day it’s your own lungs, but you ain’t gonna know what damage you’ve done for maybe 30-40 years.
Great video 👍
Really like the design of that table. I built something similar for wood dust using a 2hp commercial dust extractor and had to add curtains at the ends of the table because the draw was dissipating.
Wonder if you'd consider design/build of a fume extractor?
Dust can cause an explosion but you are 100% right, it’s about maintenance, dust in a filter won’t combust, free dust can but the accepted solution is cleaning and getting rid of the free dust. At the scales you are seeing in a piece of plant you have there is a very theoretical possibility, hugely unlikely,negligible even, whereas the lung contamination is a certainty. Great idea and well executed and proven.
The whole "combustion in small scale dust collection" is a myth. Perhaps HEPA rated filters would be a worthy improvement to your machine, but it's a winner as is. Thanks for all you do for all of us! Best, @HoneyOnWales
Nice job, already looking at moving equipment around in shop for a table like this.
I bought a respirator. I really think I will build one of those tables in the near future. Thanks for sharing.
After watching the build video on this I built my own just with tray that can be pulled out to remove all the dust and crap makes it alot easier to keep clean
Glad to see the review on this, I need one unfortunately space is at a premium
That's amazing !! I bet it also makes a great downdraft painting station for those spray bomb specials we all do.
Wow 🤩 amazing stuff I do a bit more on the arc welding side (stick weld) there’s tons of shi7 that comes off...
Nice work 👍🏽 🔥
Very impressive! Well done! :)
seems to work good and that floor mat keeps parts from slipping around good too
That’s a good idea. The shop stays covered in metal dust. I wear a powered respirator while working. But that would help to keep the place cleaner. Nice work.
I knew your table would work from day one. I've used box fans and furnace filters as a poor man's paint booth filtering system.
The dust on your filters will probably NEVER catch on fire. What is that dust composed of? Bit's of grinding wheel (i.e. stone), bit's of flap disk (i.e. garnet, otherwise known as stone) and a cloth backer (o.k. FINE. We found something that MAY burn) and what else...
Oh YEAH! The metal you're grinding! So unless you are grinding magnesium you have about 7.5 flecks of flap disk backing cloth mixed in with a whole lot of non-flammable stone and metal dust.
You're table is awesome!
You are the real deal!! Keep it up
Great job on the table! Just like an industrial one.
I'd love one if I had the space but sadly me shops too small ..I deal with the black snotty tissues on a regular basis. This brings home how good a bit of extraction actually is and just goes to show how much shite is thrown up when doing grinding and cleaning . The build video was great I'm chuffed you gave done this even just to prove it works and by the amount of crud in the bottom I'd say it works very well ..