Wait here’s the thing so I know Pokémon is also a video game but also a TV show so does that count as of Disney characters being in the background and Donald and goofy for being a finale smash but also goku and iron is also in a game so idk same as donkey Kong mario animal crossing Zelda and many more
“Sora would just be another generic anime sword fighter” You’re right! Just like how Crash and/or Rayman would be another platforming hero turned brawler. Or how Dante would just be Joker with a sword instead of a dagger. Or how Geno is just a gunner, so we might as well make him a Mii Gunner suit and not a character. This argument is completely dumb.
I think the real problem there is that there's too many swordsmen. It doesn't vary as much as a gunner or brawler can. The character just swings a sword around in different ways. I just think we definitely don't need any more of it. But brawlers and gunners can differ to largely varying degrees which is why we need more characters like that in a game like smash. While I personally take the side of the too many swordsmen argument, I still think both sides of the argument have a lot to them and I'm not upset over a video game or adamant about it in any way. Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in so both sides are explored.
@@kingh.d5838 you do realise that swordplay has many forms/schools right. Especially in smash when there are so many north ways of swordplay on top of the characters unique ability themselves? Sorry but the too many swordsman argument is silly. What you should be saying is "too many are clones/echoes of marth", but even then they don't have the same playstyle
@@Megajmaster1000 Really then why attacks heartlesses, nobody's and nightmares enemies with his keyblade look like a sword HUH. And Kingdom Hearts shouldn't on a switch thanks to the COVID-19 not the c virus. It not a bat, club and any BS stuffs because bat doesn't destroyed enemies that disappeared into nothing. So someone shouldn't lie only the truth and Fortnite is not a mii costume. Because it sells more than Kingdom Hearts games itself. So why is everyone having a bad addiction to Sora into Smash HUH?
What if they treated Sora's inclusion like he was traveling through "Smash World" to find his friends? I don't know. I do know I hope he gets a dark alt if he's in.
Sora's it's almost guaranteed to get a dark alternate costume I mean there's rage mode, anti form, and Vanitas all three of them could act as a dark Sora costume with Vanitas alternate acting as a two sided thing a dark ultimate costume and a reference to a character.
"Sora has no personality." Do theese people even know who Sora is? Yes hes not an overly complicated character, yes hes always goofy and positive, but its basicly the "Almight way of thinking." He's always smiling no matter what because people around him needs something or someone to belive in, that tells its all gonna be fine. This is why my two favorite Sora moments are when there is no point putting up hes act and he actualy letting himself to show hes own unvertanties. Namely in DDD when Xigbar, a long time villian of the series, just straight up tells him that he should not be keyblade wielder, he is not capable of it, he is not made for this job. And Sora aggries by saying "I know that keyblade didn't choose me. And I do not care, the people it did choose. My friends, they are my power!" He's not a hero for some great noble cause, he's a hero because thats what those who fight for great noble causes need. And my other favorite moment is in kh3 near the end of the game when it seems that they failed. And Sora opens up this side of him again "They're gone forever. What do we do? Without them... All my sternght came from them. They gave me all of it. Alone, Im worthless."
The people saying that without Donald and Goofy Sora wouldn't work are completely wrong. While yes they are important to his character so are Kairi and Riku, they are arguably more important than Donald and Goofy as well. Why does everyone also forget that Sora was added into World of Final Fantasy and it was just him with no Disney content, or how Sora, Kairi, Riku, and Xehanort were all added to Final Fantasy Brave Exvius and it was just them with nothing from Disney as well. Great job on the video as well!
@@InkThinks without the Disney characters helping sora, he'd be dead by now. They would HAVE to utilize the Disney characters for his moveset. Or final smash.
Dig Duke no they wouldn’t. Have you played a kingdom hearts game? They could easily implement other moves and such. Yeah it would be BETTER if they could implement the Disney stuff but it’s not necessary
I can't believe you only have 2.1k subs. I don't like to say "you deserve more subs" because it usually sounds tacky but I actually think you deserve so many more subs, these videos are incredibly thorough and informative.
Thank you so much, that really genuinely means a lot. As someone who hasn't played much of Kingdom Hearts I was worried at pulling this one off because I know that the series is very dear to a lot of people. So it makes me really happy to know people are enjoying it. Thank you for stopping by!
Not gonna lie though, I’d be very disappointed if they hid all references to Disney when adding Sora. Surely Sakurai wouldn’t be so boring as to be against having Donald and Goofy there if he had the chance
Nop he can't put them in the game. Because he Said only video game character can be in. If you accepte Donald and goofy you have to accepte Goku , Shrek etc.
@@usagi_tsuki you are creating a false choice. It isn’t either “don’t let Sora in smash” or “Let Sora and also every other character from any media”. That’s a fallacy and there is a whole array of different options between those two
@@usagi_tsuki Not necessarily if they aren’t fighters. Also Mickey Mouse and Donald are mention in the chronicles in smash brawl in the game&watch section.
More like cloud I think, but I no joke think sora would be THE MOST hyped character reveal in all of smash history. For both love and hate😅but think abou it, soras been a topic way back scenes brawl.
@@d4rksonic474 isn't that how joker got into smash? persona five was added to the switch. so how come the same wouldn't happen with melody of memories and smash?
@@psyiax3238 Exactly. Only Banjo and Steve are an exception to that rule, but Minecraft is already on the Switch and sells like buns on any platform, while Phil Spencer begged Nintendo to add Banjo since the last Smash.
I don't get why people seem to think Disney would never work with Nintendo, because like you said in the video, they already have... several times. There was even a Disney TsumTsum themed special edition Switch console released.
Honestly, I think the only way we don't get Sora in Smash Ultimate's DLC is if Disney demands too much money for his licensing fees for it to be financially sensible for Nintendo.
Yep and don't forget Disney help Nintendo to promote their console heck Nomura even releases 2 prequels of KH in DS while 3D on 3DS/2DS. So Idk why would they think Nomura, Disney and Nintendo had cold relationship with each other
That Mickey vs Srooge fight is cursed. I definitely don't think Sora is guaranteed, but he seems like a likely pick to me and I would love to have him in the game.
@@rooti2058 already play it, I started to play it years and years ago, after his release. His resprite is dope man, but I wonder why no one didn't made an accurate Sora mod for project m?
@@purpleghost6992 maybe because it would be a whole lot adding Sora into a game to make him his own character, and no one wants Disney coming after them for copyright
It's alarming to see how similar Geno and Sora are in terms of copyright, both being potential popular fighters which are owned by multiple companies. They both go "Hand in Hand" sort of speak when it comes to nostalgia and their origin games. Both games did a lot for advancing the RPG genre and introduce millions of people to it at the same time. I just hope if one gets in, fans of the other series can appreciate how important they both are to the Smash community. I wholeheartedly wanted Sora since my best friend got introduced to Snake in Brawl, so I believe it'd come full circle to see my childhood character finally be revealed. Though at the same time, Geno is just as deserving. It will be poetic to see either get in at the end of the season.
Imagine a character propped up by a 171-billion-dollar juggernaut corporation in addition to the #1 series from Square Enix, and it's still around 50 million copies sold behind Tomb Raider.
To be fair, tomb raider has a lot more games than kingdom hearts does. If all of SquareEnix's series were averaged out for sales, KH would actually be second behind FF
I don't see why would Disney be such a stingy company. There are a lot of Disney games on various video game consoles especially on Nintendo consoles. It annoys me to hear that Sora is a "boring anime swordfighter", its like they never saw the gameplay on what Sora really does on all of his games. Also, Disney isn't "that" strong on the video game industry, they are mostly well known as the most successful entertainment companies on earth mainly on movies. HMK did made a video with some more thoughts about the Disney arguments in this video: ruclips.net/video/jM4jfvzERzk/видео.html&ab_channel=HMK
@@Dalen120 I don't know about that bro, Sora has an unusual sword technique, not to mention that he combines magic with them, I know that we have Robin and Hero already, but being the third sword/magic user in smash makes him more relevant that other swordfighters. Plus, 15 swordfighters out of 78 characters? that's not even half the roster, another swordfighter won't really hurt.
I remember finding this video and it kindling the little hope I had for Sora coming to Smash… I held to that hope to the end… and finally, SORA IS IN SMASH!✨🔥💛
@@InkThinks yeah I notice alot of the arguments about sora not being in is like that which i hate so much since they'll give other characters a pass for the same issue by their logic
And Sora has tons of personality! Lots of people just don’t like emotionally available, considerate, thoughtful, kind, fun, silly, non-brooding, optimistic, friend-to-all personality types so they think that’s “lacking personality”. When it isn’t. Sora grows, changes, matures and expands upon the complex personality that he has. He feels the entire range of emotions and expresses them regularly, which is literally personality. Unlike many other characters that only know how to brood, stone face, seduce, overindulge or rebel. People tend to confuse dysfunction for depth of personality, when usually the greater the dysfunction, literally the less personality depth a person has access too - which is what makes it dysfunctional.
To be fair on the Mickey and Donald in Brawl argument I'd really just consider that a product of it's time. Sakurai probably hadn't really put any or much thought into the idea at that point and thought a simple mention would be fine. And it is really just a mention, it's a lot different from having an actual image of the character on screen and everything.
Around the time of brawl sakurai actually said he wasn't going to add fourth parties due to their licensing issues so that may also factor into it since those mentions were of games nintendo made
It is so hard to know what rules from past games continue even to today. Some rules have certainly been thrown out, but it’s definitely a weird balance in speculation
When it’s pointed out that a character doesn’t really have a personality, they’re not necessarily saying it lowers their chances but it usually makes them less interesting overall especially if it’s yet another blank slate JRPG protagonist BUT I don’t think it applies to Sora. He’s a lot more cheery and goofy than most other JRPG protagonists and mixed with the fact the Keyblade hardly works anything like a sword, he’ll overall make for a really stand out character I think especially if there’s Disney stuff coming with him
That’s a good point about it not really lowering their chances but making them less interesting. I think as long as people differentiate between “I don’t want this character” and “this character is unlikely” then I am fine with anything!
Not gonna lie. Talking about Sora OR Geno at this point is just a huge headache and we're basically in an endless loop as far as arguments for and against them. It's why I don't even talk about Geno and Super Mario RPG even casually... I feel thay liking the character makes you a bandwagoner when it's not always so cut and dry. Sora has always been in a weird position as far as Smash goes but there is a reason why I would put him and Geno into Smash if I was able to do so. Because despite how controversial they are, their fan bases have only grown over the years. Even when the later has one appearance in a SNES game, the fact that Geno has been a constant part of Smash speculation and fan demand is impressive if you REALLY think about. Honestly, I think that... There is just too much gate keeping going on and it becomes really difficult to have reasonable conversations like this because of these fan rules that keep getting "broken" again and again. Ridley too big? K. Rool is just irrelevant? Spirits cannot be playable characters? Like holy fuck... How many times are we gonna go through this same cycle? So tired of it. Sora isn't my most wanted but Damn... This video made me realize that this whole Sora and Disney thing is just one huge headache.
I don't blame you it a complicated miss on Square Enix and Disney. Nintendo and Disney that too much on this headache version of a roller coaster. So i ok with Terra, Sephiroth or Geno because of female and villains characters not more light male characters.
This makes me confident to hope that if Geno or Sora happens, it would make the most sense for these characters to be revealed at the same time. Relieving and rewarding both fronts and not necessarily deconfirming anything, while at the same time possibly making the most hype trailer anyone in the community can react to. This is a far reach, but is anyone can do it... it's the Mad Man himself.
@@remarkablezeal9568 So it more to Geno or other Square Enix characters because Sora is already Disney then Square Enix. And Kingdom Hearts 1 not chain of memories because the GBA control doesn't work in 3d movement on a d pad. Some works on a PS2 to PS4 and Kingdom Hearts collections for Nintendo Switch is cancelled on a lot of memory spaces on save data itself. So only Kingdom Hearts Melody of memory is a Nintendo Switch on a Friday the 13th and don't laugh at Jason and Death ok.
Oh man, it was terrible trying to find all of the arguments on each side of the topic. There are so many complications, rights issues, and cultural conversations that it was a huuuge headache
Honestly, I’d have no problem with Sora joining. I’m one of those weirdos that still wishes that Super Mario X Kingdom Hearts April fools day joke was a real thing. Plus it’s honestly surprising we haven’t had a proper Disney and Nintendo crossover yet. Given how Nintendo is pretty much considered the Disney of video games. The only issue, are the Disney references. It’ll feel weird not having Donald and Goofy there. But if Sora got in, the most we’d get is that Mickey Mouse key chain probably. Just not any physical appearances from the Disney crew.
Ooh now that’s a fun idea! A Kingdom Hearts but with Nintendo worlds and characters. ^^ Wait...there was a recent interview with a Nintendo magazine while they’re interviewing Nomura for Melody of Memory. Nomura said that they might be meeting again soon, of course that statement was incredibly vague and could mean anything. What we do know is this, Nomura has a project planned in mind for the Switch (that is not Memory of Melody because that’s a month away from launch now) and has probably gotten Nintendo’s okay on the matter. Okay, now this is REALLY stretching it and letting my imagination fly but get this: What if that project that I think Nomura was implying in that statement could be something in the same vein as Kingdom Hearts but this time for Nintendo rather than Disney? Or maybe Disney’s in on it too. XD But just imagine a game similar to Kingdom Hearts but with Nintendo worlds like the Mushroom Kingdom, Hyrule maybe even Kirby’s planet Popstar! And many other Nintendo worlds being mixed into it as well. Damn now I kinda want to make a fan fic about it. XD It sounds ludicrous on paper I know, but Nomura has always been someone with crazy ideas. XD For some reason it doesn’t feel so far-fetched with a director like Nomura. =P But he probably did mean something else by that statement, but I’m low-key hoping it’s KH-related. ^^
@@Adeyum64 Indeed, this also happened in KH3 at the Keyblade Graveyard, he didn’t have Donald and Goofy when fighting the Organization with Riku, Aqua, Ventus, Kairi, Axel and Roxas, all KH original cast. =) You could ever go as far as the first KH when Sora was in Hallow Bastion, for the first segment of that area, you literally were on your own (okay sure Beast was there but the important part is that Goofy and Donald was not) Thus, I agree that Sora doesn’t need Donald and Goofy as much as people think. Besides, isn’t Riku and Kairi considered much closer, not saying Goofy and Donald aren’t important but the whole port of the first KH was Sora finding his best friends. =p Just my two cents. XD
Ya know, I don't tend to like Smash speculation because of the expectation it can set for fans(the speculation around Shadow being 'basically confirmed' for Ultimate led to me being *crushed* when he wasn't in the game), nor do I particularly care about Sora. But this is a well thought out and formatted video, whose quality and reasonable nature has convinced me to watch all your stuff! I love the breakdown and detail you go into on many arguments from many perspectives, and forming your opinion based on that! Excellent work!
another hollow argument people will put out there is that Sora would only come with two songs, laughable. Yoko Shimomura, the lead composer of Kingdom Hearts has worked on a decent chunk of stuff that is already present in smash, So it's plain to see that Yoko is more generous with her work then the lead composers of Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest.
THANK YOU for such a subjective, considerate approach to this topic! I am a casual Kingdom Hearts fan and would like to see Sora in the game, but I am by no means a rabid fanboy who will die if he's not in. Seeing all the arguments laid out intelligently, for and against, made for _such_ a nice change of pace. Wonderful work, as always, and thanks again for helping this community to analyze from every angle!
I've done my own video discussion on this before so this will be easy for me. In favor of Sora: 1.) Highly requested and popular character. 2.) Has a huge potential for a moveset. 3.) Sakurai has already worked with Nomura with Cloud in Smash, they've said they'd like to collab again, and I think I read in an interview that Nomura basically just let Sakurai do whatever he wanted with Cloud in Smash (that's kind of a thing all creators have to do with allowing a character in Smash but Sakurai has proven himself to be trust worthy). 4.) While owned by Disney is DID originate as a video game character. 5.) They don't necessarily need to add Donald and Goofy as spirits, they can add the characters originally created for Kingdom Hearts like Kairi, Riku, Organization XIII etc. 6.) The HMK video pretty much shows that Disney would play ball as long as Nintendo sent the invite (there's about 4 conditions but 3 of them have pretty much been met). Against Sora: 1.) In all honesty the only thing I can see being a problem is if Disney wants too much money or Nintendo just decided it was safer to go with characters from companies they have a much stronger relationship with. Oh and that twitter thing brought up in the video? That was during Fighter Pass 1. Things might have changed in Fighter Pass 2.
Ah I had thought I clarified that about the twitter timeline but may have cut that line out. Thanks for your own thoughts! I do have a question about your point against Sora. You said Disney might want too much money. Is that how these collab seals work? Does Nintendo pay the third party for the rights to their character or does the third party pay Nintendo for the publicity. If Nintendo DOES pay the third party is it a flat rate or a commission? And if a commission is that same profit shared between companies? Or is a free but mutually beneficial thing that fosters goodwill? I have never been able to find the answers to these questions so I have always felt like financial speculation is kinda baseless until I find someone who knows more than me 😅
@@InkThinks I honestly can't say for certain how exactly it works but I'm pretty sure you have to pay for the license to use a character that someone else owns. In fact I do believe I came across a website that did bring up something to that extent but they would never say how much it costs to license out a character from Disney would cost publicly. However, I think that characters who are DLC that are from another company get a cut of the DLC profits. I have no real proof of that but it comes from things like the 3rd party Mii costumes that were DLC in 3DS/WiiU but were then DLC again in Ultimate while 1st party costumes were in the base game, it's not hard to see where this comes from. I would have to say that if Disney was smart they could see this as a huge win because let's face it, when you get into Smash, the internet won't stop taking about it. It's nothing but good publicity. Sad thing is if they were in talks right now I think Disney would do it no matter what because they NEED some good will, they NEED good PR, and they NEED all the money they can get. But last year is a different story since they had what, about 4 movies that hit over a billion dollars and had operating theme parks? So yeah, paying to much for the license could be a problem if Disney was greedy, arrogant, and stupid...Yeah that's kind of why I'm concerned. The only other problem is that Sakurai says that "everyone needs to be on board when adding a character to Smash" and there's a lot of people who have their hands in this. But then it looks like those who have the most influence and power over this like the series creator, other companies and even the composer herself working with Smash, it really doesn't seem like there's that much against Sora. All it seems to come down to at this moment is if Nintendo sent the invite, and if Disney negotiated at a price Nintendo was happy with.
Nice list, while I do like sora and want him in, I think it will be odd to not have goofy & Donald, the two side characters you play with a majority of the game to not be featured. The Disney stuff is a bit of kingdom heart’s identity and that being Gone would put into question if kingdom hearts is being represented well. I understand we have a lot of other characters and stuff to pull from but when I think of kingdom hearts, what comes into might is hearts, sora and the classic disney trio. No much other valid points you could bring up against sora tho, there may be a longer communications and design process since Disney goes to square and they’ll discuss and have to get permission from then (which square may not even make a profit on since Disney owns the character) but all the other points are valid. Another point in sora’s favour is that his games did sell well which make him recognisable.
@@bosskinbasher9161 Ultimately it will be Sakurai's call on whether or not characters like Donald and Goofy will be spirits if Sora gets in. I'm setting my expectations to "they won't be there" so I won't get disappointed and if by some miracle they do then all the better.
cjszero01 Fair, with his statement of his saying he won’t make iron man or Goku appear in the game I doubt they would add them. A bit of a shame too since it sora gets in then him without the Disney stuff may feel a bit incomplete.
Iron Man is a playable "character" in the shooting game called 'Fortnite', don't know if you've ever heard of it, and people are still telling me that Donald Duck can't be a shiny png in Smash Bros? (I know Donald is way closer to Disney itself than Iron Man but c'mon, really?)
I feel like people always forget that Sora has two other friends Riku and Kairi have far more importance to the story overall then Goofy or Donald. For most of the games Riku and Kairi safety is usually one of sora primary motivation in the game. Plus Riku and Sora even have a team attack that literally could be the Final Smash for Sora in Kingdom Hearts 3 when they save aqua.
Plus since kairi battle stance and moveset isn't that far off from Sora's they can even have her as an alternate skin for sora is Nintendo and Disney wanted to have more representation. There just so many ways for the two companies to implement store into the game without breaking the rule anyway. The only thing holding him back from being in the game is literally just whether or not one of the companies approached each other about the idea and are open to it. I feel his chances are pretty big.
I’m going to remain cautiously optimistic, I would love to see what Sora is like in Smash and A fan of Kingdom Hearts myself I would love to see KH get represented. But I’m a realist myself so I have to keep myself from getting carried away and remain in neutral zone to logically assess things. Also I’m usually pretty laidback and accepting of fighters. I bought both fighter passes truthfully for completing the roster and supporting Sakurai and his team. If Sora gets in, then that would have made buying the pass even more worth it but if not then that’s fine too. I’d be lying if I said I wouldn’t be over the moon if Sora did get in though, the complete reverse in fact. =3 About Geno though, according to another youtuber called Siiroth, Geno had been brought to the table twice throughout the whole history of Smash, but I don’t know if this was Nintendo or SE’s choice but it was rejected both times. I’m leaning towards it being SE being the reason why they rejected putting in Geno.because of how their mindset works. If there’s one thing I learned from being a long time consumer of SE franchises is that they love to promote and tend to concentrate on their biggest franchises that have much more world renown that can be recognised inside and outside of the Smash bubble, therefore if they were going to add their third SE rep (if there is even going to be another) it would be a character that they can promote to boost sales for any upcoming games under that franchise’s name. For example, let’s say Bravely Default II and Nier Replicant, both games that are coming realistically next year and both come from franchises that SE are putting a lot of attention on, same goes for Melody of Memory for the KH franchise. So logically they could use this fighter pass to use them as promotional characters in Smash which in turn would help boost sales for those games. This is a tried and proven method of increasing awareness and getting more people interested into either Smash on Nintendo’s side and the game itself from the said company involved. This worked wonders for FE and DQ, as I have heard of people who had never touched Dragon Quest game tried it for the first time thanks to the DQ heroes inclusion in Smash. Some had even gone beyond DQXI S and started playing the other DQ games. I’d say that was a successful campaign for both Nintendo and SE. lol FE well...I’m sure most know the story now but FE was originally a Japanese exclusive franchise, it’s hard to imagine now but the west hadn’t even known about FE until Marth and Roy (who had the time was promoting his own FE game Binding Blade back in Japan) joined Smash in Melee and the West went nuts for these guys and they wanted to know more about the FE series, after Melee Intelligence Systems has finally gotten the western audience they thought they would never get if Sakurai hadn’t kept Marth and Roy in Melee (apparently they were going to be cut at one point because Nintendo thought no one would care or know what Fire Emblem was.) Nintendo then got an idea and decided they should give FE a try overseas and strike while the iron is hot, the rest is history. ^^ The point I’m trying to say is though that SE’s mindset is very oriented towards what’s best for their company and will try to make the most maximum profit. So when it comes to Smash inclusion they will prioritise their bigger cash cows over nostalgic characters depending on what game they can get boosted sales from the most. Cloud was the face of Final Fantasy so that was relatively easy for SE and Nintendo. For DQ it’s possible that Sakurai might have tried to go for Erdrick first but since DQXI S was coming to the switch at the time, SE wanted to prioritise DQXI’s protagonist over Erdrick. I guess we know now that Sakurai was able to pull a master move on them by not only bringing Eleven and Erdrick, but also Eight (aka my personal favourite ^^) and Solo (DQ4’s hero) Four DQ characters for the price of one slot, win win for both sides. XD Now Geno is where things get weird, SE owns the rights to Geno and very likely all characters exclusive to SMRPG, so characters like Mallow and so on which is why we never see any of these characters outside of the one game they were in even though it’s within the Super Mario universe, they were still classified by law as SE-owned characters and therefore couldn’t be used without SE’s approval. But I get the feeling SE really doesn’t care about SMRPG, it’s been over two decades since the game first came out and we’ve heard nothing even implying that they have any interest in bringing it back. I’d believe this if SE and Nintendo were still holding grudges over SE jumping ship to Sony and Nintendo not gotten over it. But we’ve seen many SE games on the Switch at this point and past handhelds, so that’s all water under the bridge now, but if that’s indeed the case, why haven’t Nintendo or SE attempt to try their collaboration game, either as a remake or a new sequel, why hasn’t it happen yet if they knew how much the Geno fans within the Smash fandom wanted him. It’s harsh and incredibly cruel to say this but I believe the simple answer to this that...SE really doesn’t care. =( They have no interest in going back to that game and they have other franchises under SE’s name that has contributed more to their company then SMRPG ever did or at least from their perspective. I don’t know how well the game sold back then, but from what I’ve heard from various people, it didn’t sell as much as they hoped it would. So it could be that Sakurai and Nintendo could have approached SE about Geno but they chose to reject it because they believed Geno didn’t have any long-term value or it was not worth putting Geno in when they have other franchises that can appeal to a much wider audience. The problem with Geno is that if you talk to anyone outside of Smash or Nintendo in general, the average gamer is not going to know who Geno is and to SE that’s not good at all. They want to make the most profit out of any promotion or deal but if they aren’t going to attract anyone other than the Geno fans and others like me who wouldn’t mind him, it wouldn’t sell as say Cloud did and to SE, that’s not good enough and with no game to promote Geno in because he’s tied to the Super Mario universe, it just wouldn’t work for a company like SE. And if SE says no to Geno then there’s nothing Nintendo or Sakurai can do about it. Because if they rejected twice already and have no interest in going back to SMRPG, then it’s unlikely they’ll change their minds now. If by chance, they did agree to remake or make a sequel to SMRPG, then I think Geno still has a chance but that would depend on if SE wants to go through that again. It’s a collaboration game after all so it requires both companies to agree. But then again I could say the same thing to Sora, since Disney holds the rights to Sora and Kingdom Hearts itself they could easily turn around and say no. But we do know thanks to HMK and interviews with Disney that had stated they were fine with Sora in Smash but they would need to get Nomura’s okay first. And I see no reason why Nomura would not agree to it, especially since we know Nomura and Sakurai respect each other’s works and he even helped with Cloud’s inclusion. So yeah, that’s it, sorry this turned into a huge essay but I’m very passionate when it comes to video game history and games in general. =3
Wow thanks for taking the time to make such an in depth response to my video, that is a huge compliment and with your stuff you could easily make your own interesting video. I haven't ever seen anything to collaborate the claim that Geno had been on the table twice, but I suppose I could see that from one of Sakurai's statements, but I also agree that I am not sure if they would care enough about Geno. I think Sora would probably be a much easier sell for sure, but it is hard to know what is going to go on behind closed doors
@@InkThinks Wow, thank you so much for such a kind comment! ^^ It’s just what I believe from what I’ve deduced from various sources and trying to think like a business like Nintendo and SE. Not sure if I could do a video like this and being diplomatic at the same time since I wouldn’t want to come off as I’m taking sides or anything because truthfully I’m happy with any fighter but I have my favourites like everyone else. ^^ I got that information about Geno from RUclipsr called Siiroth, it was in a recent video of his about characters that were omitted from Smash or something like that, I’ll have to edit this comment later once I find a link to it. I didn’t know about it either until I came across that video. Not sure if it’s true but feel like something like that might have happened between them behind closed doors. Edit: Found the video ^^ ruclips.net/video/EWKxaVNt7hc/видео.html Indeed, you can say that again. XD Nintendo Ninjas are everywhere and I firmly believe that Nintendo are getting better at keeping secrets, especially if they were able to hide Byleth from being leaked so I imagine the four remaining fighters are under the same tight lid protection as Byleth was. Meaning it could really be anyone at this point. Either way, I just have a strong hunch that whoever SE picks for third rep it will be for the benefit of their company. We still don’t even know if we will get a third SE rep but it will be to promote whatever game they feel they can get extra profit from.
@@CruxisAngel7 I feel like if Square does approve Geno, it wouldn't be for the fighter's spot, but for a deluxe Mii costume. At that point, it would just be extra DLC money to be made off of a more popular Square rep.
@@AndrewDeng Yeah, those were my thoughts exactly. I know some made the arguement that Chrom and King K Rool were made fighters and still have their Mii outfits but I think there’s one tiny detail they forgot, both of them are already in the base game. They weren’t added later as dlc, that would make no sense if they were already fighters so they added those outfits along with the game itself. The thing is with Geno is that since he’s owned by Square and considering what they’re like, I agree and think Geno will be deluxe Mii costume but that’s as far as they’ll go. As they would rather promote their bigger properties that they know will sell and people will recognise in and outside of the Smash bubble. Let’s play devils advocate and say Geno does get upgraded as a fighter, that will be great for Geno fans in the Smash community but outside of it, no one is going to know who he is. He won’t attract anyone who hasn’t bought Smash yet and for Nintendo that’s no good either. Also he’s got no game they can promote him with since he’s tied to the Super Mario universe so...yeah, unless Nintendo and SE agree to do something with Super Mario RPG, SE won’t even consider it and waste their slot like that, not when they have other franchises they can promote and expect far more profit from. Cloud was the face of FF so of course he’d sell like hot cakes. And Erdrick/DQ heroes is a beloved icon over in Japan so they know that will also sell like hot cakes (I mean they even have a holiday for anything DQ related getting released lol) In comparison, Geno just wouldn’t have that same effect, he’s infamous in Smash sure, but outside of it, he won’t be bringing in new players who’ve yet to buy Smash or let alone a Nintendo Switch. Not like Cloud and Erdrick was able to do. I’ve always thought that Banjo getting in as a miracle, but I think I now know how it was possible. Steve. That was the agreement Nintendo and Microsoft agreed to, they would put Steve in to promote Minecraft and in return they’d be able to put in Banjo despite his sadly ‘dead franchise’ status. Although I have heard Microsoft was considering revitalising Banjo, so if that happens, you can’t really say Banjo is irrelevant anymore. XD Anyway getting off track here, overall if there’s one thing I learned from being a long-time consumer of SE games, they’re not your friends, they don’t care about who you want or what you think, they’ll do what’s best for their company. And to them that’s means making the most of their slot that they’ll save for their bigger franchises that actually are still making profit and use it as a means of promotion. We’re talking about the same people who were promoting Lightning as a model for some clothing brand. (I’m not even joking, this actually happened XD) So I’m just saying’, they’re not above being shameless with their franchises and their merchandise. XD
I’ve never got into Kingdom Hearts but I’d be legitimately excited for his introduction since what I’ve seen from the series I can imagine him having a very flash moveset and be fun to watch or play. With the massive popularity of Kingdom Hearts I’d be surprised if they aren’t given some rep in FP2
This was genuinely an amazing video! You don't have any bias towards Kingdom Hearts but your video was so informative and argued both sides very accurately! Bravo!
As a big Kingdom Hearts fan since childhood I do find it very refreshing to see someone coming in from a fairly objective standpoint despite not knowing the series on Sora's inclusion. Most of what I see is either big KH fans trying their hardest to spread the word in good faith, and people who dislike the series presenting their arguments as to why they feel he's unlikely aldo in good faith. Both sides do have some people though that can be a bit stonewall-ish when it comes to their position. But I don't necessarily see the argument that Sora would necessarily need Disney elements to be represented correctly, as Disney has more become a backdrop of sorts in recent entries to the KH original stuff, characters, lore, etc. Though I do have mad respect for bringing up HMK, the boy. One of my favorite KHTubers and definitely someone that can really get me hyped for Sora in Smash.
I am really glad that KH fans are okay with my video haha, it is series with such a passionate fanbase that it was super intimidating for me to make this video. Sora for Smash!
My only concern about sora joining (even tho my worry is ridiculous and there is nothing to worry about) is that it can cause Donald and Goofy to be referenced in the game and snowball into allowing more than just gaming icons getting into smash. The reason why I worry about this, even tho it sounds like it’s a good thing, is that if this comes true, it makes it possible (even if the chance is astronomically low) that Icarly can make it to smash
Rest In Peace, Sora. Your spot has NOT been wasted. May your heart be your guiding key. Edit: NVM BOYS HE HE MADE IT OUT DA FINAL WORLD. See y’all next pass 😈
The sad thing is that if we get Sora as DLC for Ultimate no Geno for Geno Supporters and if we get Geno as DLC no Sora for Sora supporters *Basically it's a one or nothing situation*
Sora's chances are indeed gray. It's not just Disney you have to be concerned about, it's also Tetsuya Nomura and Square Enix as a whole. There's so much more to consider when talking about the licensing end of this deal. Let's get this one thing straight; Disney does own the character copyrights of Kingdom Hearts but they require the okay from Nomura and, by extension, Square Enix to use him in anything. This also goes for Smash Bros. The good thing here is that this actually heightens his chances significantly. 1: Yoko Shimomura, composer of the Kingdom Hearts franchise, is also a great friend of Sakurai's and has been doing remixes for Smash Bros. for years now so when it comes to the music end of representation, this one's already in the bag. Your only issue on this front is going to be Ms. Utada Hikaru as she seems to be morbidly defensive of her music's copyright. So much so that you can't even have the game's cutscenes play if her music's playing over it or your video be will ban-hammered faster than Sonic can fart. That's definitely not a deal breaker though because Yoko's original tracks are more than enough to compensate. 2: Nomura and Sakurai are clearly good friends in the industry. Sakurai even once congratulated Nomura on the Kingdom Hearts franchise's recent anniversary celebration, expressing how he can relate to how it feels to work with multiple copyrights all at once thus showing how deeply Sakurai respects Nomura. These two have also clearly been talking to each other often because during the talks for Cloud, Sakurai originally wanted to go for Terra/Tina Branford from FFVI (he even admitted to this himself). I imagine there was also some involvement there when it came to the Geno mii costume making it into Smash for Wii U/3DS as DLC. I think it's rather foolish to assume that Sora and Kingdom Hearts hasn't already been brought up between the two before already when it comes to any kind of inclusion in the Smash Bros. franchise. 3: It's a complicated relationship but Square Enix and Nintendo do have a working relationship as far as we can tell at this time. There's been some spats over hardware specs and the like when it comes to porting Square Enix games to the Nintendo Switch but this seems to be par for the course so I doubt this really hurts anything too much but it's something to keep in mind when it comes to dealing with partnerships and thus licensing deals. Kingdom Hearts: Melody of Memory does have a Nintendo Switch port and it all seems to run fairly smoothly judging from the footage seen in trailers so who knows? 4: Disney. Some say this is the most important word out of them all but you may be quite shocked at how willing Disney would be to putting Sora into a franchise as renowned as Smash Bros. Seeing how loosely they've handled their other licenses in terms of profit sharing and even merchandising shows that Disney's not really as impossible to work with as some seem to just love assuming. I'm not a fan of Disney's whole "buy it all" BS either but it's good to attack a company on what they're actually doing wrong and not what they're actually doing right. Come on now. All they'd need from Disney is the big fat "OKAY" and they're golden. Slap the Disney copyright on the bottom and watch as yet more money is printed for the DLC itself as well as the inevitable Amiibo sales for Sora. Will Donald and Goofy show up along with Sora? FUCK no. Never gonna happen and you don't need it to. We have Riku and Kairi to fill in that gap for them along with a multitude of other Kingdom Hearts franchise regulars that fans have all come to adore over the years. We may even get to see more Final Fantasy characters make cameos which would just be great. 5: The pieces are really kind of lining up for his reveal. Kingdom Hearts: Melody of Memory's random release on all current hardware, Nintendo Switch included, speaks volumes for the barriers already being broken down to make this possible. Add that to the fact that we've seen Sakurai mention Kingdom Hearts by name several times in the past and we have yet to see the Geno mii costume (if he's not a fighter then he'd absolutely get his mii costume revealed along with Sora's reveal) and you've got quite a convincing turnout for Sora being in this game as DLC. I don't know when this is gonna happen but I do think we can expect it to happen sometime in this Fighter's Pass. TL;DR - Sora's chances are actually more of an 8.5/10 bordering on 9/10 if I'm being brutally honest. He's one of those "finally" additions that just feels right to be added into the game alongside characters such as Ridley, King K. Rool, the Belmonts and of course Banjo & Kazooie. Geno's a side character from a now old and quite frankly random Mario Bros. RPG game. Paper Mario has become more of an RPG figurehead for the plumber than the former SNES title. Geno would be a very random and, opinions aside, lackluster addition to a roster that's clearly aiming for star power (I didn't mean that pun, I swear) so it's most definitely pointing more in Sora's direction. Immortalizing Kingdom Hearts in Smash Bros., a game literally about crossovers being represented in another game literally about crossovers, is too perfect to just simply pass up on. "A scattered dream that's like a far-off memory. A far-off memory that's like a scattered dream. I wanna line the pieces up. Yours and mine." - Sora (KIngdom Hearts II)
I feel like Sora is one of those characters that is very likely coming whether people want it or not. KH has a huge fanbase and Disney would make a lot of money from the collaboration plus the fact that it would draw in a lot of Disney fans and people who just overall enjoy everything Disney produces.
Yes and Cloud made it in. Kingdom hearts stands a huge chance among the rest of the other possible candidates. Im not saying he has a better chance im just saying the possibility is still there. Even if another FF character gets added Im down for it (Black mage and Barret are who I’m hoping for) but you have to admit that Square has many different options to choose from.
Nice job on this video, I like how you went totally in depth with all of the arguments for both sides and provided evidence as well. When it came to writing my reply to your community tab I always thought the idea of Disney = bad was a bit weak, sure they might ask for a lot in return but I don’t think this necessarily equals to the deal automatically being unavailable, we don’t actually know how much is invested into each DLC. What I was more so looking for was how many parties would be involved in this which or any potential barriers and while Disney and Nintendo do make deals, I though the specific requirement of Disney needing to go to square Enix could make things more complicated, not impossible but more convoluted compared to going to just one company for a character. Square would essentially have to give permission for Disney to use a character with the chance of no compensation since Disney owns the character. Also the brawl evidence of them being named feels a bit weak as well. We are talking about a small piece of a game made over 10 years ago that is no longer featured in smash so i doubt it actually holds any weight. This may work against for sora actually since the exclusion of this content could be done to actually enforce the rule. Also while they may have had a large presence in gaming, Disney characters are typically recognised for being movie or cartoon based which gives them a big distinction compared to characters like Mario. They could just use their gaming counterparts but the fact is that people associate Mickey with cartoons so if he gets in, even with his kingdom hearts design people are gonna think the 4th party barrier will be destroyed unless stated otherwise which opens the flood gates to basically everyone which increases expectations that Nintendo will have to topple over. Nice job tho, personally I’d rate sora a 3/10. He has many pros but with things from communication being more complicated with more heads than usual with other companies and the fact that 4th party inclusion being a very touchy subject with Disney characters being a massive part of kingdom hearts and the issue of flood gates being open makes sora a uncertain and potentially risky character that may make him undesirable compared to others characters Nintendo can pull from. Both third and first party.
This is a super fair assessment! It’s like I said at the end, it is just such a weird gray area that it is super hard to be accurate in speculations with Sora specifically
InkThinks Thanks for the compliment. It is a grey area of light and dark. Honestly there just isn’t too much info to go off to make a definitive pinpoint in all this.
Pretty sure DQ has multiple copyright holders yet Nintendo were able to make a deal, so communication doesn'tseem to be a fatal factor. With Disney they only ask SE to get Nomura's blessing. Also you could make that argument you made to mi keu to characters such as dracula and hades. Characters that arguably have bigger and a more notable presence in oyher media compared to yhei4 Videogame counterparts
i know this character will never happen but just out of a request could you talk about Asuka from Senran Kagura as potential marvelous/xseed games rep oh and sora4smash all the way
@@InkThinks the senran kagura fanbase is very niche assuming because of little attention it has in comparison to the zelda kingdom hearts and final fantasy fanbase has
Another argument I’ve heard for Sora in Smash is that some people think that if he got in, Disney would try to buy the series. What do you think of this argument?
I love kingdom hearts and I still have hope for Sora. Sora has unique moves that can fit moves that fit into smash. Plus, like the majority of characters, Sora has been on a nintendo platform. You can argue Steve, but even Minecraft has been on a nintendo platform as of recently. If Disney does work a deal, it would probably benefit Disney more so and possibly create way for a Disney + Nintendo collab. I'm not saying it'll bring a new ip or anything, but it can open doors. Also, Disney usually considers Sora as a "inbetween" character. Disney doesn't really promote Sora. They've promoted Sora a few times at the parks, but typically Kingdom Hearts gets a little bit of promotion in a few nods to the series such as King Mickey. It can be done, but I think the best way to add Sora would be to nix some of the Disney characters, mostly Donald and Goofy. Make Sora's ultimate his drive form if wanting to nix out trinity in general.
The rights are so complicated that it really gave me a headache trying to figure it all out haha, but I just started playing the game right after I made this video, and even if it is a little clunky it is super charming and I really love the series
@@InkThinks Honestly you'll love the series. There's a few games you can skip if you just want to focus mostly on the story, but otherwise most of the games are fun. The only ones I didn't care for were coded and chain.
So, the thing with pokemon, even when they have one make its debut outside of the games, they are designed for the games, and the team making the pokemon do show them to the animation studio so the anime can come out as soon as possible before or more likely after the games release, along with the teams that work on the tcg, merchandising and so on. The tcg do try hard to not show pokemon cards for things the main team haven't revealed yet for the games. Though there are a few times they accidentally did.
I have always been skeptical about whether or not Sora would get in, but after your clarifications with his licensing I definitely lean more towards him getting in. You just showed up in ny recommendations so time to binge for videos lol
Speaking of Crash, can you please do him next and then Conker next double please?? You should really check out Aaronitmar's videos talking about what movesets he wants to see in Smash from those characters and also why he wants those characters in Smash as well.
@@pencilface2453 no I said Crash because I said in a different comment in this comment section that either Crash or Sora will be announced at this year's game awards so who knows. I want him to eventually do Conker though because if Banjo got in, so can Conker and sadly there's not a lot of people out there who even want Conker in Smash which is just sad to me man.
Sora is hard to say. Disney always had videogames, but never been known for them. They already a major entertainment field, and associating non-video game characters would be uncanny and highly debatable. If we're going for swordsman, Ryu Hayabusas would be the best candidate. He is not only gonna be the only Ninja in Smash, but also one of the only users who WIELDS a katana. He hasn't been active since 2014, that would help promote a new game.
Haha I found similar footage with Waluigi and Yoshi in my video coming later today. I’m gonna have to by my own Soul Calibur 6 copy so I can use it more 😂
its his moveset that makes him awesome, he is even fun in Smash flash 2, i guess him and Lloyd Irving will be in due to the hint scott were giving, i hope it will be the same like with Shulk. :-)
I'm still looking forward to that Spyro video. As far as Sora is concerned I'm still on the fence about him, the Keyblades design alone would be tricky to mess with considering that Mickey's "face" is on it. Changing the Keyblade IMO wouldn't do Sora justice, yes he does have other Keyblades to wield but the OG Keyblade would make Sora, Sora. Idk.. You did make a good video as usual I just have some doubts
Kingdom Hearts story makes sense, and is pretty well constructed (except for KH3 maybe). The only people who say otherwise are those who dislike the fact that it’s Disney and anime put together. The only thing confusing about the series is how it jumped across a bunch of consoles, making it tough to play every game. Like seriously, anything potentially confusing is explained at some point. But nope. People can’t seem to wrap they’re head around the fact that hearts give tangible power in a series called Kingdom Hearts.
@@InkThinks Didn’t you say you only played 2 hours of the original? And that you were an outsider looking in? That would imply that you haven’t really played the series.
Adding sora to smash is simple, get rid of donald, goofy or any other non videogame characters from his mention or moveset, and replace the mickey mouse keychain with a smash bros logo, put either traverse town or soras home island as the stage, his skins would be his forms from the games (I’d love to see his heartless form as a skin) and exclude any of his disney themed keyblades amd super moves for the final smash, problem solved I want sora in badly, somebody on twitter made this absolutely beautiful made artwork where sora was in this white void surrounded by memory cards from chain of memories that had pics of all the smash fighters on it like mario sonic megaman, bowser and zelda but I can live without him, there’s sooooo many unique videogame characters I’d love to see,
My one thought about Sora's chances being higher or lower in being in Smash does relate to Disney's control but not in terms of money. I know another youtuber mentioned it so it's not my own idea (sorry for forgetting his/her name), but one point against Sora might be that Disney would want to throw in too much of the Disney side of KH. I feel like, if anything, Disney would push more for their iconic movie characters over their KH characters. I doubt this would affect Sora's actual inclusion in Smash, but just an interesting thought.
I think he WILL make it to Smash 100% because yes he is owned by Disney, but also Disney has made several crossovers with several video game companies such as Wreck-it Ralph, Disney games on Nintendo and Sega platforms, etc. So even though he's owned by Disney, he does have a fantastic moveset for Smash. Not to mention that fact that he also interacts with Kingdom Hearts characters and not just Disney characters (such as Riku and the rest of the gang), and he also does a ton of things alone all by himself without the help of Donald or Goofy (such as defeat bosses, enemies, etc). He also has such a HUGE fanbase and the next step for both Nintendo and Disney would be to put him in Smash because of that (and of course take out the Disney characters and put in Square Enix characters only). So I'm actually very heavily excited to see who the next character is. I think it's either going to be Sora or Crash for sure.
Not only that Square also have made a crossover Mario games before and have been releasing several famous titles to some Nintendo consoles for a few times in the past same with Disney. The problem is those idiots who keeps using the Disney is a greedy company arguements. Those kinds of people who use that stupid arguements and really don't want Sora to be in smash pisses me off mostly since some of them come off very aggressive about it.
My question is would his inclusion open the possibility that characters like Android 21, Starkiller or any other character that is in the same position as Sora could be added?
Don't Cal from Star Wars: Fallen Order because he new to. Also a video game character so i ok with Starkiller, Cal and the Android 21 if she not part of the Dragon Ball Z characters that all.
@@Twilight17Petkoton I mean I don't necessarily want them in the game but it is worth thinking about. Because the arguments made for Sora can just as easily be applied to some those characters as well.
@@christianlopez707 I highly doubt it because the Kingdom Hearts Melody of memory is going with Sora Kingdom Hearts 1 outfit and default keyblade on rhythm based game. So their are other video game characters instead of Sora all the time. Because that more toxic and selfish at the same time because Sora is more Disney then Square Enix. So don't go with may my heart be guiding key it following your heart. Because Kingdom Hearts is now the next memes on words that all. Your should look at the cut scenes instead game ok.
Excellent rundown on the factors for Sora. The way it seems to me is that Sora has possibly been a "in the works" character for Smash for a while, similar to how Steve was for 5 years. It's likely that, like Steve, there may be some purely logistical nightmares involved with pulling the trigger on Sora that we just won't ever see until he's confirmed. Despite Nintento and Disney both likely seeing the $ signs from putting Sora in Smash, it just might be a complicated act that takes a while for both companies. Now regarding some other characters... I don't think we are ever getting Geno. It has nothing to do with Square-Enix and everything to do with how Nintendo feels about characters from Mario's RPG games. Given the recent reveal from Paper Mario devs about the strict rules now for character and story building, Nintendo might actively be denying older characters that don't fall in line with those rules (i.e. TTYD characters and most MarioRPG characters) Based on my observations, 3 reps is the apparent limit right now for 3rd parties. Capcom, Konami, and Sega (technically) have all hit 3 and stopped. Square and now Microsoft have reached their 2nd rep, so based on this theory they have room for one more each. Call me crazy, but considering how rapidly friendly Microsoft has been with Nintendo these past years, I wouldn't be shocked if they got their 3rd rep in this same Fighters Pass (Master Chief being the obvious guess) I don't think Bandai-Namco gives enough of a damn about their video game character's "legacy" or popularity to really push for another character rep other than Pac-Man. If anime characters were on the table, I bet you Goku and Luffy would've been in ages ago, but that's not the case. They helped make the past two smash games, got Pac-Man in, and have Mii costumes and stuff. Their corporate is probably good with that.
Huh, you know I never really thought of it like that. I always thought it was more of an SE problem since SE don’t seem to care much about SMRPG, or at least not enough to merit Geno being a fighter (especially if they have nothing to promote him with). Or at least that’s the impression I get from SE. From what I’ve seen, they’ll only pick characters that will benefit them the most, especially if it’s like with DQXI S and they have a game coming that could give them boosted revenue alongside the character they picked to promote it. I never thought of the possibility that it might be Nintendo who were the problem. But I guess you have a point, not to mention they don’t have to pay any royalties to use characters like Geno or Mallow for Paper Mario, since they’re SE-owned, they would have to pay money to include them despite them being tied to the SM universe. Maybe that’s why they ended up removing Geno’s cameo in the remake of the Mario & Luigi RPG game it was in, because they didn’t want to pay money to SE just for a cameo. I just thought SE asked them to remove it from the remake XD
I gotta say, I applaud you for actually studying the history of KH and the arguments people have over Sora as a Smash DLC probability. Every time in every smash group that I’ve been in there was always the same arguments being said over and over like “No because Disney” and “No because KH sucks and Sora is a lame anime swordsman character that will play like Robin” and it annoys me. I’ve also studied and gave my opinions of his chance being in smash and honestly he has potential. Stuff like Donald and Goofy being a “Necessity” to accurately represent Sora and KH is not much of argument since like you said Cloud is in smash without Barret and Tifa and they are a huge part of FF7. I really don’t think that a full representation is needed to have Sora in smash and another example that I’ve used in arguments about Sora is Terry Bogard. Being DLC 4 Terry came in with a plethora of content from the company he represents (SNK) but out of all the Stage, Music and Cameos that are in, one certain MAJOR character didn’t appear and that was Mai Shiranui. A female that is considered one of SNK’s most iconic characters. Obviously we all know why she was cut from the game and that was Sakurai’s famous quote “Smash is game for good boys and girls” and it clearly shows that even if someone as big and Iconic as Mai is to her company SNK, being out for certain reasons won’t harm Sora or his representation in any way. KH has a lot of original content that can easily replace Disney IP’s (Mickey, Donald and Goofy) and the Mickey keychain on his Keyblade wouldn’t be a problem at all. That I could say would be the tie to represent Disney well. If Sora gets in smash I’ll ensure you that Sakurai would get the job done well in his own way. If not, well maybe next time. I don’t like giving percentages on how likely a character can join the roster but the only percentage I can give to any eligible video game character would be 50% chance. Only time will tell until the FP2 is over and all slots are filled.
Another complication to the strict "characters must originate from games" thing, is Dracula appearing in smash. It's certainly a gray area, and could be explained, but it's a weird situation
@@InkThinks ohhh, i didn't think of that one, but yeah, other characters as well like Death and Alucard. And maybe zombie but it feels like too a lesser extent. But zombie is a playable character unlike the others
Mythology characters like Dracula or Zeus are in the public domain, anyone can create their own version of the character. Those who are present at Smash belong to a video game company and are not considered 4th party characters
Silly question, but is there a chance you could do a character that isn’t as highly requested as Master Chief, Sora, or Crash? Like Remu or Hat Kid or Rayman or somebody like that?
Ya know if the thing was they could get him in but there couldn't be any Disney references, were golden. No Mickey on the keyblade allowed? Easy, just make him wield a different keyblade. No Disney music? Again easy, the kingdom hearts series has plenty of iconic tunes that are original to those games. No Donald or Goofy? Simple. Kingdom hearts has a HUGE cast so there's plenty to pull from for spirits, background appearances or even the final smash. No Disney worlds? Come on. Sora has gone to plenty of original worlds, the only hard part would be choosing which one. In conclusion, I personally don't see Disney as holding Sora back. In my opinion we just need to get the right people together and it will all work itself out.
If sora did join smash I wonder what music could fit for smash since the music for that character is what I'm looking forward to aside from fun to play
I'd say my rating is the same as yours. There's not a lot of characters I think stand out as likely but I've been following sora for so long there's that residue. It was fun helping out a touch with the script on this one. Definitely the most comprehensive guide on sora's chances out there that I've seen. Also, minor thing. Kingdom hearts X is actually pronounced kingdom hearts chi(like dragon ball). I should've told you before. Woops
I think the main giveaway for me of Sora being in Smash is the name of Nintendo's sub company designed solely for dealing with other companies, specifically Sora Ltd., which Sakurai is the head director, and the theme of Sora is every heart uniting under 'One Sky'...
I think it is an interesting coincidence, but I also think it would be hard to point to a correlation between the two in a meaningful way given how old Sora Ltd is
Not to mention Sora was put in various final fantasy mobile games so why would the allow him in a mobile game not many people care about and wouldn’t bring much profit but would deny the biggest fighting game of all time with characters like Mario, Sonic , Pikachu and Steve
How big do you think Sora really is? Square Enix happens to own yet another icon that is comparable to Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog and it sure as hell isn't him.
@@jacoryarnett7347 Whether Sora is a character or not, you're still going to be a loyal customer of this product, so giving you what you want should not be that much of a priority over which character could sell more copies of Smash Bros.
You are literally the only smashtuber that isn't spreading misinformation about this character. Had to come here after the stench of aaronminter and larry lurr's videos.
@@InkThinks i hope you do a follow-up video on sora. Since a lot of people have commented new arguments (and to once again clarify your position on the sephiroth situation)
One argument for possible inclusion would be sora being on nintendo consoles in the past and now on switch melody of memory is on there. I dont think disney or square mind if sora is on smash bros, it's just up to Sakura to say yes or no for the most part
True, but it's a sword that's also a magic staff, a bazooka, dual handguns, a jet hammer, yo-yos, a drill arm, a flag, skates and armblades, claws, a shield, a lance, a nanomachine control unit, and a tower. It can also shoot fireballs, wind gusts, lighting strikes, water torrents, and ice chunks. So... I think there's enough diversity to separate him from the other swordsmen, who are already have a pretty diverse range of gameplay styles
@@AndrewDeng yea but out right saying "it isn't a sword." Is a little bit of a overstatement. I'm not denying that sora will be different from different sword fighters.
I want to interject that Sora is brimming with personality. While maybe not 3 dimensional, he is an extremely optimistic character to the point of being naive and trusting to a fault. As the series goes on literally every good guy gets a keyblade, wouldn't that undermine the fact that he's supposed to be the chosen one? Well I don't think it's his ability to wield a weapon that makes him special. He's literally so heartwarmingly friendly he let like 3 people take residence in his soul when the didn't have a body. TL;DR he's just an average Joe with a strong heart and I think that's loads relatable
I truly think he’ll be added to smash just because people have been demanding it for a while now. Bet you did great justice to this and I love the fact that you truly did your research. I hope he gets in and think that’s it’s likely because of Nintendo’s past interactions with Disney and the brawl files with Donald and Mickey. We don’t know but we can hope. Thanks for the awesome vid!
Nice video but i wanna mention a few things: -mickey is soon gonna be public domain like dracula -Dracula is in smash -Disney only care about Nomura specifically being happy, hence why they go to SE -OG KH characters/monsters can also represent the franchise
Haha Mickey very well could be public domain soon, but Disney keeps trying their hardest to push that back. There are whole copyright laws called “the Mickey Mouse law” 😂
@@InkThinks well the main point is just to establish that KH mickey can be considered a different iteration of mickey mouse the same way Castlevania dracula is different from the the original... also looking into the law, i thought it can only be extended up to 20 years from the priginal 75. Mickey was published around 1923
Mythology characters like Dracula or Zeus are in the public domain, anyone can create their own version of the character. Those who are present at Smash belong to a video game company and are not considered 4th party characters
@@rbggsc6719 you do realise Microsoft/bandai namco aren't primarily a videogame company right? As well as mythology still being works of fiction right? (In fact dracula himself is an actual work of fiction since he originated from a novel) As well as Mickey mouse literally going into public domain soon?
@@Megajmaster1000 The difference between Dracula and Mickey Moose is that I can use dracula (the public domain version not the version of Dracula owned by a company) without being denounced contrary to the mouse of Disney that is not in the public domain
I really enjoy these videos. The following is just my opinion, I legitimately enjoy talking about it and I'm not talking down anyone. But I don't see how making comparisons to Cloud and his party and Sora and his Disney friends even works. If Sakurai had wanted to include Tifa, Barrett, Aerith, as part of Cloud's final smash, then he could have. It doesn't break Cloud to not have his friends, he is supposed to be an "independent merc" after all (or whatever, I'm not super into either of these examples). But Sora showing up with Disney characters? That would pretty much break the "no 4th party" imo. I understand your point on "video game versions of the characters", I really do, you could count them as totally unique versions of Donald and Goofy, but they're still Disney characters (and while Sora is as well, he truly originates from Final Fantasy games mixing with Disney movies = Kingdom Hearts, so I see that as valid). I just think not including Goofy or Donald would pretty much be impossible for a character who has direct and extremely strong ties to Disney media (even the Mickey charm is something that I think would still be crossing the line into 4th party honestly). I mean, it's Kingdom Hearts, Sora is inextricably linked to Disney, who is primarily a video game company. What even is Sora or Kingdom Hearts without any reference or at least characters from Disney showing up in some manner? It would just be Final Fantasy but with cartoonier clothing, a younger protagonist, keys, and censored/nonexistent references to other media. And if anything, I could see Epic Mickey in Smash before I could see Sora. Even that is more game oriented and rooted in Mickey's history, conveyed in a game, rather than direct ties to movies that we all know and love. On top of this, you gave Doom Slayer a 0/10 but Sora a 7.5/10, which from my point of view I found kind of ironic. Sure, ok, obviously this is your opinion and I have my own, again, it doesn't really matter and I'm just throwing this out there to talk about it. But you claimed that, while Scorpion could be dialed down (when both MK and Doom were both part of the gaming controversy of the 90's), Doom could not be. MK is based on violence. That is what makes it distinct, as you stated in your own video, from Street Fighter and other fighting games. Doom could probably be toned down as well, although I understand your thought process. Sora without Disney? I can't see it, yet you can't see Doom with violence? Blood and guts can be erased, but whole characters, stories, themes, events, etc? No, I don't see that happening (but of course if it didn't actually matter to Disney or Nintendo, which I think you've convinced me it wouldn't have been, then I don't know what is keeping them from including him). Back to Scorpion, he literally pull off his face to show a skull, burns people with hell fire he breaths out, and uses a spear and swords (which obviously swords aren't a huge issue to Smash). But Doom Slayer is just a big guy in a suit with guns, a chainsaw, a sweet energy sword, etc, who is just as violent and has been wanted in MK itself as well as Smash. And in the case of weapons being a big deal, I really don't think that is a problem as much anymore given the characters they've added since Snake. I just think Doom Slayer is still one of the most likely. And yes, I would like to see Scorpion as well. I do understand the whole "readjustment with the esrb", but I really think that wouldn't be an issue either, seeing as he could literally be toned down just as easily as Scorpion. Honestly the worst problem I think they'd have with either is promoting the game with the Smash Bros. Ultimate x DOOM or Mortal Kombat, because when they have M games they don't normally show the title (like Travis Touchdown's mii costume). Both have a lot of violence and dark elements, so seeing Smash connected and promoting them might be a buffer keeping them out, but I don't think it would be an issue any more. Personally I would love for people to have gotten their beloved Sora in Smash, but I didn't really see it happening to begin with. Also, yes, less JRPG reps please. At least for now. However, if Sephiroth was the choice when they couldn't get Sora, I think that was the best choice, and frankly I welcomed him.
I will say though even though Sora is a Disney character Square does have use of the character so if he gets in I think Genos chances are decreased because I’d imagine they’d want to keep it with only one rep per company in the fighters pass and we’ve seen that be true so far
Binge the full "The Final Analysis" series here: bit.ly/2GIXVYw
Dude you should buy the games
Wait here’s the thing so I know Pokémon is also a video game but also a TV show so does that count as of Disney characters being in the background and Donald and goofy for being a finale smash but also goku and iron is also in a game so idk same as donkey Kong mario animal crossing Zelda and many more
I'm really glad someone researched this and gave valid points from both sides. As a kingdom hearts fan, this video is 100% on how I feel.
Oh I am so glad! I know that this is a series dear to a lot of people’s hearts so I am glad you feel like I did it justice!
Amen to you sir
Same
yer
“Sora would just be another generic anime sword fighter”
You’re right! Just like how Crash and/or Rayman would be another platforming hero turned brawler.
Or how Dante would just be Joker with a sword instead of a dagger.
Or how Geno is just a gunner, so we might as well make him a Mii Gunner suit and not a character.
This argument is completely dumb.
absolutely agree. I mad a whole video dedicated to how bad the argument is lol
I think the real problem there is that there's too many swordsmen. It doesn't vary as much as a gunner or brawler can. The character just swings a sword around in different ways. I just think we definitely don't need any more of it. But brawlers and gunners can differ to largely varying degrees which is why we need more characters like that in a game like smash. While I personally take the side of the too many swordsmen argument, I still think both sides of the argument have a lot to them and I'm not upset over a video game or adamant about it in any way. Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in so both sides are explored.
@@kingh.d5838 you do realise that swordplay has many forms/schools right. Especially in smash when there are so many north ways of swordplay on top of the characters unique ability themselves?
Sorry but the too many swordsman argument is silly. What you should be saying is "too many are clones/echoes of marth", but even then they don't have the same playstyle
@@Megajmaster1000 good point. While I wouldn't go so far as calling it silly I do think you make an accurate argument.
@@Megajmaster1000 Really then why attacks heartlesses, nobody's and nightmares enemies with his keyblade look like a sword HUH. And Kingdom Hearts shouldn't on a switch thanks to the COVID-19 not the c virus. It not a bat, club and any BS stuffs because bat doesn't destroyed enemies that disappeared into nothing. So someone shouldn't lie only the truth and Fortnite is not a mii costume. Because it sells more than Kingdom Hearts games itself. So why is everyone having a bad addiction to Sora into Smash HUH?
I’m from the future and I can 100% confirm that Sora is in smash bros
What if they treated Sora's inclusion like he was traveling through "Smash World" to find his friends? I don't know. I do know I hope he gets a dark alt if he's in.
That would be super cool!
Sora's it's almost guaranteed to get a dark alternate costume I mean there's rage mode, anti form, and Vanitas all three of them could act as a dark Sora costume with Vanitas alternate acting as a two sided thing a dark ultimate costume and a reference to a character.
@@zachbahamutson5477 One can hope. We should at least get drive forms as alts.
@@staretimecomics It would be funny if the neutral special actually allowed to trigger and switch between Drive Forms or Formchanges.
@AT Productions Sony got Midnight Blue, Microsoft got Phantom Green... Nintendo could get Twilight Red, aka, a red Starlight or so.
"Sora has no personality." Do theese people even know who Sora is? Yes hes not an overly complicated character, yes hes always goofy and positive, but its basicly the "Almight way of thinking." He's always smiling no matter what because people around him needs something or someone to belive in, that tells its all gonna be fine. This is why my two favorite Sora moments are when there is no point putting up hes act and he actualy letting himself to show hes own unvertanties. Namely in DDD when Xigbar, a long time villian of the series, just straight up tells him that he should not be keyblade wielder, he is not capable of it, he is not made for this job. And Sora aggries by saying "I know that keyblade didn't choose me. And I do not care, the people it did choose. My friends, they are my power!" He's not a hero for some great noble cause, he's a hero because thats what those who fight for great noble causes need. And my other favorite moment is in kh3 near the end of the game when it seems that they failed. And Sora opens up this side of him again "They're gone forever. What do we do? Without them... All my sternght came from them. They gave me all of it. Alone, Im worthless."
He definitely doesn't fit the mold of bland anime protagonist that people claim he is
“Sora... you don’t believe that... I know you don’t.”
Toad is full of personality
The people saying that without Donald and Goofy Sora wouldn't work are completely wrong. While yes they are important to his character so are Kairi and Riku, they are arguably more important than Donald and Goofy as well. Why does everyone also forget that Sora was added into World of Final Fantasy and it was just him with no Disney content, or how Sora, Kairi, Riku, and Xehanort were all added to Final Fantasy Brave Exvius and it was just them with nothing from Disney as well.
Great job on the video as well!
Yeah those people probably have never played a single game
He was a Summon, he only did 1 thing thats it.
@@Strykerx31 still counts
tf are people saying Sora isn’t possible cause he isn’t a video game character?! He literally is!!!
I think the argument tends to be that he is too closely associated with Disney characters, not really that Sora is a non-video game character himself
@@InkThinks without the Disney characters helping sora, he'd be dead by now. They would HAVE to utilize the Disney characters for his moveset. Or final smash.
Dig Duke no they wouldn’t. Have you played a kingdom hearts game? They could easily implement other moves and such. Yeah it would be BETTER if they could implement the Disney stuff but it’s not necessary
@@silvskill5358 but it wouldn't be sora 🥺😭😭😭
@@Dig_Duke_SFM You act like Kingdom Hearts original characters don't exist.
Guess who got in? That’s right, Sora!
I can't believe you only have 2.1k subs. I don't like to say "you deserve more subs" because it usually sounds tacky but I actually think you deserve so many more subs, these videos are incredibly thorough and informative.
He's hopefully going to grow much bigger.
Thank you so much, that really genuinely means a lot. As someone who hasn't played much of Kingdom Hearts I was worried at pulling this one off because I know that the series is very dear to a lot of people. So it makes me really happy to know people are enjoying it. Thank you for stopping by!
Not gonna lie though, I’d be very disappointed if they hid all references to Disney when adding Sora. Surely Sakurai wouldn’t be so boring as to be against having Donald and Goofy there if he had the chance
Elliot Duby I imagine that he would go for it if he could get the rights and okay from Nintendo
Nop he can't put them in the game. Because he Said only video game character can be in. If you accepte Donald and goofy you have to accepte Goku , Shrek etc.
@@usagi_tsuki No you don’t. Donald and Goofy aren’t gonna be fighters
@@usagi_tsuki you are creating a false choice. It isn’t either “don’t let Sora in smash” or “Let Sora and also every other character from any media”. That’s a fallacy and there is a whole array of different options between those two
@@usagi_tsuki
Not necessarily if they aren’t fighters. Also Mickey Mouse and Donald are mention in the chronicles in smash brawl in the game&watch section.
Not sure how likely he really is but Sora would have a similar effect to Steve. The internet would implode
100% he would
More like cloud I think, but I no joke think sora would be THE MOST hyped character reveal in all of smash history. For both love and hate😅but think abou it, soras been a topic way back scenes brawl.
With a Kingdom Hearts game for the Switch it‘s very likely actually.
@@d4rksonic474 isn't that how joker got into smash? persona five was added to the switch. so how come the same wouldn't happen with melody of memories and smash?
@@psyiax3238 Exactly. Only Banjo and Steve are an exception to that rule, but Minecraft is already on the Switch and sells like buns on any platform, while Phil Spencer begged Nintendo to add Banjo since the last Smash.
I don't get why people seem to think Disney would never work with Nintendo, because like you said in the video, they already have... several times. There was even a Disney TsumTsum themed special edition Switch console released.
My thoughts exactly
Wasn't there something with playing cards WAY back in the day?
@@KALEEB-CALEB Spectrobes
Honestly, I think the only way we don't get Sora in Smash Ultimate's DLC is if Disney demands too much money for his licensing fees for it to be financially sensible for Nintendo.
Yep and don't forget Disney help Nintendo to promote their console heck Nomura even releases 2 prequels of KH in DS while 3D on 3DS/2DS. So Idk why would they think Nomura, Disney and Nintendo had cold relationship with each other
That Mickey vs Srooge fight is cursed.
I definitely don't think Sora is guaranteed, but he seems like a likely pick to me and I would love to have him in the game.
I'm glad someone noticed that abomination
It was pretty great
lmao
*S R O O G E*
"I hate Sora"
"stfu we need our homie Sora!"
Me: I just wanna see how this character is fun to play
Same tbh
Just play smash flash and you would get a decent idea on how he would play I think he would be really fun to play as like pichu or Kirby
@@rooti2058 already play it, I started to play it years and years ago, after his release. His resprite is dope man, but I wonder why no one didn't made an accurate Sora mod for project m?
@@purpleghost6992 maybe because it would be a whole lot adding Sora into a game to make him his own character, and no one wants Disney coming after them for copyright
@@KingJinzo2125 But what about super smash flash 2?
It's alarming to see how similar Geno and Sora are in terms of copyright, both being potential popular fighters which are owned by multiple companies.
They both go "Hand in Hand" sort of speak when it comes to nostalgia and their origin games. Both games did a lot for advancing the RPG genre and introduce millions of people to it at the same time. I just hope if one gets in, fans of the other series can appreciate how important they both are to the Smash community.
I wholeheartedly wanted Sora since my best friend got introduced to Snake in Brawl, so I believe it'd come full circle to see my childhood character finally be revealed. Though at the same time, Geno is just as deserving. It will be poetic to see either get in at the end of the season.
Never thought of them being connected in that way. Interesting insight!
Another similarity they have is that they are both really OP characters from their games.
why are they calling him an anime swordsman? I mean come on he's actually an anime giantkeysman
Imagine a character propped up by a 171-billion-dollar juggernaut corporation in addition to the #1 series from Square Enix,
and it's still around 50 million copies sold behind Tomb Raider.
To be fair, tomb raider has a lot more games than kingdom hearts does. If all of SquareEnix's series were averaged out for sales, KH would actually be second behind FF
Lol don’t ever sleep on tomb raider
"Sora doesn't have a personality".
And the award for the most ridiculous statement in history goes to.
I don't see why would Disney be such a stingy company. There are a lot of Disney games on various video game consoles especially on Nintendo consoles. It annoys me to hear that Sora is a "boring anime swordfighter", its like they never saw the gameplay on what Sora really does on all of his games. Also, Disney isn't "that" strong on the video game industry, they are mostly well known as the most successful entertainment companies on earth mainly on movies. HMK did made a video with some more thoughts about the Disney arguments in this video: ruclips.net/video/jM4jfvzERzk/видео.html&ab_channel=HMK
I definitely agree. Sora exists in such a weird grey area of smash speculation
@@colin3ds1 Well, a certain youtuber who is a fan of Kingdom Hearts explains the Disney situation.
@@colin3ds1 that's factually incorrect. Look at sonic all stars racing and the numerous gatcha games sora has guest starred in
@@Megajmaster1000 oh yeah. I remember he was a special character in a FF mobile game
@@Dalen120 I don't know about that bro, Sora has an unusual sword technique, not to mention that he combines magic with them, I know that we have Robin and Hero already, but being the third sword/magic user in smash makes him more relevant that other swordfighters.
Plus, 15 swordfighters out of 78 characters? that's not even half the roster, another swordfighter won't really hurt.
I remember finding this video and it kindling the little hope I had for Sora coming to Smash… I held to that hope to the end… and finally, SORA IS IN SMASH!✨🔥💛
I never understood the personality argument when the mascot of nintendo(iconic as he is) has little to no personality
It’s just a way to shut down conversation and make people feel stupid for their wishlist honestly
@@InkThinks yeah I notice alot of the arguments about sora not being in is like that which i hate so much since they'll give other characters a pass for the same issue by their logic
Toad has tons of personality
I can count the words mario and Luigi speak on one hand, yet ppl think Sora doesn’t have a personality?
And Sora has tons of personality! Lots of people just don’t like emotionally available, considerate, thoughtful, kind, fun, silly, non-brooding, optimistic, friend-to-all personality types so they think that’s “lacking personality”. When it isn’t. Sora grows, changes, matures and expands upon the complex personality that he has. He feels the entire range of emotions and expresses them regularly, which is literally personality. Unlike many other characters that only know how to brood, stone face, seduce, overindulge or rebel. People tend to confuse dysfunction for depth of personality, when usually the greater the dysfunction, literally the less personality depth a person has access too - which is what makes it dysfunctional.
This is crazy good. This channel is gonna be huge keep it up dude!
I certainly hope so! Thanks so much!
Good lord, this video was posted exactly a YEAR and 5 days before Sora got added to the game. Insanity.
To be fair on the Mickey and Donald in Brawl argument I'd really just consider that a product of it's time. Sakurai probably hadn't really put any or much thought into the idea at that point and thought a simple mention would be fine. And it is really just a mention, it's a lot different from having an actual image of the character on screen and everything.
Around the time of brawl sakurai actually said he wasn't going to add fourth parties due to their licensing issues so that may also factor into it since those mentions were of games nintendo made
It is so hard to know what rules from past games continue even to today. Some rules have certainly been thrown out, but it’s definitely a weird balance in speculation
When it’s pointed out that a character doesn’t really have a personality, they’re not necessarily saying it lowers their chances but it usually makes them less interesting overall especially if it’s yet another blank slate JRPG protagonist BUT I don’t think it applies to Sora. He’s a lot more cheery and goofy than most other JRPG protagonists and mixed with the fact the Keyblade hardly works anything like a sword, he’ll overall make for a really stand out character I think especially if there’s Disney stuff coming with him
That’s a good point about it not really lowering their chances but making them less interesting. I think as long as people differentiate between “I don’t want this character” and “this character is unlikely” then I am fine with anything!
Not gonna lie. Talking about Sora OR Geno at this point is just a huge headache and we're basically in an endless loop as far as arguments for and against them.
It's why I don't even talk about Geno and Super Mario RPG even casually... I feel thay liking the character makes you a bandwagoner when it's not always so cut and dry.
Sora has always been in a weird position as far as Smash goes but there is a reason why I would put him and Geno into Smash if I was able to do so. Because despite how controversial they are, their fan bases have only grown over the years. Even when the later has one appearance in a SNES game, the fact that Geno has been a constant part of Smash speculation and fan demand is impressive if you REALLY think about.
Honestly, I think that... There is just too much gate keeping going on and it becomes really difficult to have reasonable conversations like this because of these fan rules that keep getting "broken" again and again. Ridley too big? K. Rool is just irrelevant? Spirits cannot be playable characters?
Like holy fuck... How many times are we gonna go through this same cycle? So tired of it. Sora isn't my most wanted but Damn... This video made me realize that this whole Sora and Disney thing is just one huge headache.
I don't blame you it a complicated miss on Square Enix and Disney. Nintendo and Disney that too much on this headache version of a roller coaster. So i ok with Terra, Sephiroth or Geno because of female and villains characters not more light male characters.
This makes me confident to hope that if Geno or Sora happens, it would make the most sense for these characters to be revealed at the same time. Relieving and rewarding both fronts and not necessarily deconfirming anything, while at the same time possibly making the most hype trailer anyone in the community can react to.
This is a far reach, but is anyone can do it... it's the Mad Man himself.
@@remarkablezeal9568 So it more to Geno or other Square Enix characters because Sora is already Disney then Square Enix. And Kingdom Hearts 1 not chain of memories because the GBA control doesn't work in 3d movement on a d pad. Some works on a PS2 to PS4 and Kingdom Hearts collections for Nintendo Switch is cancelled on a lot of memory spaces on save data itself. So only Kingdom Hearts Melody of memory is a Nintendo Switch on a Friday the 13th and don't laugh at Jason and Death ok.
Oh man, it was terrible trying to find all of the arguments on each side of the topic. There are so many complications, rights issues, and cultural conversations that it was a huuuge headache
@@InkThinks Yeah a headache indeed so go other video game characters that doesn't have rights to non video game companies.
Honestly, I’d have no problem with Sora joining. I’m one of those weirdos that still wishes that Super Mario X Kingdom Hearts April fools day joke was a real thing.
Plus it’s honestly surprising we haven’t had a proper Disney and Nintendo crossover yet. Given how Nintendo is pretty much considered the Disney of video games.
The only issue, are the Disney references. It’ll feel weird not having Donald and Goofy there. But if Sora got in, the most we’d get is that Mickey Mouse key chain probably. Just not any physical appearances from the Disney crew.
Only time will tell!
Ooh now that’s a fun idea! A Kingdom Hearts but with Nintendo worlds and characters. ^^
Wait...there was a recent interview with a Nintendo magazine while they’re interviewing Nomura for Melody of Memory. Nomura said that they might be meeting again soon, of course that statement was incredibly vague and could mean anything.
What we do know is this, Nomura has a project planned in mind for the Switch (that is not Memory of Melody because that’s a month away from launch now) and has probably gotten Nintendo’s okay on the matter.
Okay, now this is REALLY stretching it and letting my imagination fly but get this: What if that project that I think Nomura was implying in that statement could be something in the same vein as Kingdom Hearts but this time for Nintendo rather than Disney? Or maybe Disney’s in on it too. XD
But just imagine a game similar to Kingdom Hearts but with Nintendo worlds like the Mushroom Kingdom, Hyrule maybe even Kirby’s planet Popstar! And many other Nintendo worlds being mixed into it as well.
Damn now I kinda want to make a fan fic about it. XD
It sounds ludicrous on paper I know, but Nomura has always been someone with crazy ideas. XD For some reason it doesn’t feel so far-fetched with a director like Nomura. =P
But he probably did mean something else by that statement, but I’m low-key hoping it’s KH-related. ^^
Donald and Goofy in Soras final smash 🔥
It‘s really not as bad as it sounds. DDD also didn‘t have Donald and Goofy as sidekicks.
@@Adeyum64 Indeed, this also happened in KH3 at the Keyblade Graveyard, he didn’t have Donald and Goofy when fighting the Organization with Riku, Aqua, Ventus, Kairi, Axel and Roxas, all KH original cast. =)
You could ever go as far as the first KH when Sora was in Hallow Bastion, for the first segment of that area, you literally were on your own (okay sure Beast was there but the important part is that Goofy and Donald was not)
Thus, I agree that Sora doesn’t need Donald and Goofy as much as people think. Besides, isn’t Riku and Kairi considered much closer, not saying Goofy and Donald aren’t important but the whole port of the first KH was Sora finding his best friends. =p
Just my two cents. XD
Ya know, I don't tend to like Smash speculation because of the expectation it can set for fans(the speculation around Shadow being 'basically confirmed' for Ultimate led to me being *crushed* when he wasn't in the game), nor do I particularly care about Sora. But this is a well thought out and formatted video, whose quality and reasonable nature has convinced me to watch all your stuff! I love the breakdown and detail you go into on many arguments from many perspectives, and forming your opinion based on that! Excellent work!
Dude thank you so much!
Riku- Mickey sora mind and heart are already made up
Mickey- but riku
Sora- I’ll be back before you know it I will be in smash
Hype!
Very excited for this video, Sora is my most wanted character ans ive been waiting ever since you mentioned it in a comment (:
I’m glad you were excited for it. I hope you enjoyed it!
@@InkThinks I did (:
another hollow argument people will put out there is that Sora would only come with two songs, laughable.
Yoko Shimomura, the lead composer of Kingdom Hearts has worked on a decent chunk of stuff that is already present in smash, So it's plain to see that Yoko is more generous with her work then the lead composers of Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest.
It is so difficult to know what goes into decisions like song inclusions
Steve being a savior instead of a nemesis...
And I didn't know Disney was mentioned in Brawl
THANK YOU for such a subjective, considerate approach to this topic! I am a casual Kingdom Hearts fan and would like to see Sora in the game, but I am by no means a rabid fanboy who will die if he's not in. Seeing all the arguments laid out intelligently, for and against, made for _such_ a nice change of pace. Wonderful work, as always, and thanks again for helping this community to analyze from every angle!
Thank you so much! I am glad you enjoyed it. New analysis coming within the next hour
@@InkThinks Dang, you don't slow down, do you? Good on you! Can't wait to catch that one too :)
@@homesteadhero I’m really excited for it! It’s a collab with a very big Pokémon RUclipsr and I think it’s gonna be cool.
I've done my own video discussion on this before so this will be easy for me.
In favor of Sora: 1.) Highly requested and popular character. 2.) Has a huge potential for a moveset. 3.) Sakurai has already worked with Nomura with Cloud in Smash, they've said they'd like to collab again, and I think I read in an interview that Nomura basically just let Sakurai do whatever he wanted with Cloud in Smash (that's kind of a thing all creators have to do with allowing a character in Smash but Sakurai has proven himself to be trust worthy). 4.) While owned by Disney is DID originate as a video game character. 5.) They don't necessarily need to add Donald and Goofy as spirits, they can add the characters originally created for Kingdom Hearts like Kairi, Riku, Organization XIII etc. 6.) The HMK video pretty much shows that Disney would play ball as long as Nintendo sent the invite (there's about 4 conditions but 3 of them have pretty much been met).
Against Sora: 1.) In all honesty the only thing I can see being a problem is if Disney wants too much money or Nintendo just decided it was safer to go with characters from companies they have a much stronger relationship with.
Oh and that twitter thing brought up in the video? That was during Fighter Pass 1. Things might have changed in Fighter Pass 2.
Ah I had thought I clarified that about the twitter timeline but may have cut that line out. Thanks for your own thoughts! I do have a question about your point against Sora. You said Disney might want too much money. Is that how these collab seals work? Does Nintendo pay the third party for the rights to their character or does the third party pay Nintendo for the publicity. If Nintendo DOES pay the third party is it a flat rate or a commission? And if a commission is that same profit shared between companies? Or is a free but mutually beneficial thing that fosters goodwill? I have never been able to find the answers to these questions so I have always felt like financial speculation is kinda baseless until I find someone who knows more than me 😅
@@InkThinks I honestly can't say for certain how exactly it works but I'm pretty sure you have to pay for the license to use a character that someone else owns. In fact I do believe I came across a website that did bring up something to that extent but they would never say how much it costs to license out a character from Disney would cost publicly. However, I think that characters who are DLC that are from another company get a cut of the DLC profits. I have no real proof of that but it comes from things like the 3rd party Mii costumes that were DLC in 3DS/WiiU but were then DLC again in Ultimate while 1st party costumes were in the base game, it's not hard to see where this comes from. I would have to say that if Disney was smart they could see this as a huge win because let's face it, when you get into Smash, the internet won't stop taking about it. It's nothing but good publicity. Sad thing is if they were in talks right now I think Disney would do it no matter what because they NEED some good will, they NEED good PR, and they NEED all the money they can get. But last year is a different story since they had what, about 4 movies that hit over a billion dollars and had operating theme parks? So yeah, paying to much for the license could be a problem if Disney was greedy, arrogant, and stupid...Yeah that's kind of why I'm concerned.
The only other problem is that Sakurai says that "everyone needs to be on board when adding a character to Smash" and there's a lot of people who have their hands in this. But then it looks like those who have the most influence and power over this like the series creator, other companies and even the composer herself working with Smash, it really doesn't seem like there's that much against Sora. All it seems to come down to at this moment is if Nintendo sent the invite, and if Disney negotiated at a price Nintendo was happy with.
Nice list, while I do like sora and want him in, I think it will be odd to not have goofy & Donald, the two side characters you play with a majority of the game to not be featured. The Disney stuff is a bit of kingdom heart’s identity and that being Gone would put into question if kingdom hearts is being represented well. I understand we have a lot of other characters and stuff to pull from but when I think of kingdom hearts, what comes into might is hearts, sora and the classic disney trio.
No much other valid points you could bring up against sora tho, there may be a longer communications and design process since Disney goes to square and they’ll discuss and have to get permission from then (which square may not even make a profit on since Disney owns the character) but all the other points are valid. Another point in sora’s favour is that his games did sell well which make him recognisable.
@@bosskinbasher9161 Ultimately it will be Sakurai's call on whether or not characters like Donald and Goofy will be spirits if Sora gets in. I'm setting my expectations to "they won't be there" so I won't get disappointed and if by some miracle they do then all the better.
cjszero01 Fair, with his statement of his saying he won’t make iron man or Goku appear in the game I doubt they would add them. A bit of a shame too since it sora gets in then him without the Disney stuff may feel a bit incomplete.
Iron Man is a playable "character" in the shooting game called 'Fortnite', don't know if you've ever heard of it, and people are still telling me that Donald Duck can't be a shiny png in Smash Bros?
(I know Donald is way closer to Disney itself than Iron Man but c'mon, really?)
Haha yeah I don't know. It is really unclear for all of it. There is too much unknown factors and all we can really do is speculate
@Michael Rowley what?
René CD during world war 2 Disney made some propaganda including this ruclips.net/video/S-PZVrWvJM0/видео.html
@@ISuckAtMinecraft397 woah wtf
Where's the boundary then? Would you be fine with characters like Spongebob, Batman, and John Madden?
I feel like people always forget that Sora has two other friends Riku and Kairi have far more importance to the story overall then Goofy or Donald. For most of the games Riku and Kairi safety is usually one of sora primary motivation in the game. Plus Riku and Sora even have a team attack that literally could be the Final Smash for Sora in Kingdom Hearts 3 when they save aqua.
Plus since kairi battle stance and moveset isn't that far off from Sora's they can even have her as an alternate skin for sora is Nintendo and Disney wanted to have more representation. There just so many ways for the two companies to implement store into the game without breaking the rule anyway. The only thing holding him back from being in the game is literally just whether or not one of the companies approached each other about the idea and are open to it. I feel his chances are pretty big.
Exactly
I’m going to remain cautiously optimistic, I would love to see what Sora is like in Smash and A fan of Kingdom Hearts myself I would love to see KH get represented.
But I’m a realist myself so I have to keep myself from getting carried away and remain in neutral zone to logically assess things.
Also I’m usually pretty laidback and accepting of fighters. I bought both fighter passes truthfully for completing the roster and supporting Sakurai and his team. If Sora gets in, then that would have made buying the pass even more worth it but if not then that’s fine too. I’d be lying if I said I wouldn’t be over the moon if Sora did get in though, the complete reverse in fact. =3
About Geno though, according to another youtuber called Siiroth, Geno had been brought to the table twice throughout the whole history of Smash, but I don’t know if this was Nintendo or SE’s choice but it was rejected both times. I’m leaning towards it being SE being the reason why they rejected putting in Geno.because of how their mindset works.
If there’s one thing I learned from being a long time consumer of SE franchises is that they love to promote and tend to concentrate on their biggest franchises that have much more world renown that can be recognised inside and outside of the Smash bubble, therefore if they were going to add their third SE rep (if there is even going to be another) it would be a character that they can promote to boost sales for any upcoming games under that franchise’s name.
For example, let’s say Bravely Default II and Nier Replicant, both games that are coming realistically next year and both come from franchises that SE are putting a lot of attention on, same goes for Melody of Memory for the KH franchise. So logically they could use this fighter pass to use them as promotional characters in Smash which in turn would help boost sales for those games. This is a tried and proven method of increasing awareness and getting more people interested into either Smash on Nintendo’s side and the game itself from the said company involved. This worked wonders for FE and DQ, as I have heard of people who had never touched Dragon Quest game tried it for the first time thanks to the DQ heroes inclusion in Smash. Some had even gone beyond DQXI S and started playing the other DQ games. I’d say that was a successful campaign for both Nintendo and SE. lol
FE well...I’m sure most know the story now but FE was originally a Japanese exclusive franchise, it’s hard to imagine now but the west hadn’t even known about FE until Marth and Roy (who had the time was promoting his own FE game Binding Blade back in Japan) joined Smash in Melee and the West went nuts for these guys and they wanted to know more about the FE series, after Melee Intelligence Systems has finally gotten the western audience they thought they would never get if Sakurai hadn’t kept Marth and Roy in Melee (apparently they were going to be cut at one point because Nintendo thought no one would care or know what Fire Emblem was.) Nintendo then got an idea and decided they should give FE a try overseas and strike while the iron is hot, the rest is history. ^^
The point I’m trying to say is though that SE’s mindset is very oriented towards what’s best for their company and will try to make the most maximum profit. So when it comes to Smash inclusion they will prioritise their bigger cash cows over nostalgic characters depending on what game they can get boosted sales from the most. Cloud was the face of Final Fantasy so that was relatively easy for SE and Nintendo. For DQ it’s possible that Sakurai might have tried to go for Erdrick first but since DQXI S was coming to the switch at the time, SE wanted to prioritise DQXI’s protagonist over Erdrick. I guess we know now that Sakurai was able to pull a master move on them by not only bringing Eleven and Erdrick, but also Eight (aka my personal favourite ^^) and Solo (DQ4’s hero) Four DQ characters for the price of one slot, win win for both sides. XD
Now Geno is where things get weird, SE owns the rights to Geno and very likely all characters exclusive to SMRPG, so characters like Mallow and so on which is why we never see any of these characters outside of the one game they were in even though it’s within the Super Mario universe, they were still classified by law as SE-owned characters and therefore couldn’t be used without SE’s approval.
But I get the feeling SE really doesn’t care about SMRPG, it’s been over two decades since the game first came out and we’ve heard nothing even implying that they have any interest in bringing it back. I’d believe this if SE and Nintendo were still holding grudges over SE jumping ship to Sony and Nintendo not gotten over it. But we’ve seen many SE games on the Switch at this point and past handhelds, so that’s all water under the bridge now, but if that’s indeed the case, why haven’t Nintendo or SE attempt to try their collaboration game, either as a remake or a new sequel, why hasn’t it happen yet if they knew how much the Geno fans within the Smash fandom wanted him.
It’s harsh and incredibly cruel to say this but I believe the simple answer to this that...SE really doesn’t care. =( They have no interest in going back to that game and they have other franchises under SE’s name that has contributed more to their company then SMRPG ever did or at least from their perspective. I don’t know how well the game sold back then, but from what I’ve heard from various people, it didn’t sell as much as they hoped it would.
So it could be that Sakurai and Nintendo could have approached SE about Geno but they chose to reject it because they believed Geno didn’t have any long-term value or it was not worth putting Geno in when they have other franchises that can appeal to a much wider audience.
The problem with Geno is that if you talk to anyone outside of Smash or Nintendo in general, the average gamer is not going to know who Geno is and to SE that’s not good at all. They want to make the most profit out of any promotion or deal but if they aren’t going to attract anyone other than the Geno fans and others like me who wouldn’t mind him, it wouldn’t sell as say Cloud did and to SE, that’s not good enough and with no game to promote Geno in because he’s tied to the Super Mario universe, it just wouldn’t work for a company like SE.
And if SE says no to Geno then there’s nothing Nintendo or Sakurai can do about it. Because if they rejected twice already and have no interest in going back to SMRPG, then it’s unlikely they’ll change their minds now.
If by chance, they did agree to remake or make a sequel to SMRPG, then I think Geno still has a chance but that would depend on if SE wants to go through that again. It’s a collaboration game after all so it requires both companies to agree.
But then again I could say the same thing to Sora, since Disney holds the rights to Sora and Kingdom Hearts itself they could easily turn around and say no. But we do know thanks to HMK and interviews with Disney that had stated they were fine with Sora in Smash but they would need to get Nomura’s okay first. And I see no reason why Nomura would not agree to it, especially since we know Nomura and Sakurai respect each other’s works and he even helped with Cloud’s inclusion.
So yeah, that’s it, sorry this turned into a huge essay but I’m very passionate when it comes to video game history and games in general. =3
Wow thanks for taking the time to make such an in depth response to my video, that is a huge compliment and with your stuff you could easily make your own interesting video. I haven't ever seen anything to collaborate the claim that Geno had been on the table twice, but I suppose I could see that from one of Sakurai's statements, but I also agree that I am not sure if they would care enough about Geno. I think Sora would probably be a much easier sell for sure, but it is hard to know what is going to go on behind closed doors
@@InkThinks Wow, thank you so much for such a kind comment! ^^
It’s just what I believe from what I’ve deduced from various sources and trying to think like a business like Nintendo and SE. Not sure if I could do a video like this and being diplomatic at the same time since I wouldn’t want to come off as I’m taking sides or anything because truthfully I’m happy with any fighter but I have my favourites like everyone else. ^^
I got that information about Geno from RUclipsr called Siiroth, it was in a recent video of his about characters that were omitted from Smash or something like that, I’ll have to edit this comment later once I find a link to it. I didn’t know about it either until I came across that video. Not sure if it’s true but feel like something like that might have happened between them behind closed doors.
Edit: Found the video ^^ ruclips.net/video/EWKxaVNt7hc/видео.html
Indeed, you can say that again. XD Nintendo Ninjas are everywhere and I firmly believe that Nintendo are getting better at keeping secrets, especially if they were able to hide Byleth from being leaked so I imagine the four remaining fighters are under the same tight lid protection as Byleth was. Meaning it could really be anyone at this point.
Either way, I just have a strong hunch that whoever SE picks for third rep it will be for the benefit of their company. We still don’t even know if we will get a third SE rep but it will be to promote whatever game they feel they can get extra profit from.
@@CruxisAngel7 I feel like if Square does approve Geno, it wouldn't be for the fighter's spot, but for a deluxe Mii costume. At that point, it would just be extra DLC money to be made off of a more popular Square rep.
@@AndrewDeng Yeah, those were my thoughts exactly. I know some made the arguement that Chrom and King K Rool were made fighters and still have their Mii outfits but I think there’s one tiny detail they forgot, both of them are already in the base game. They weren’t added later as dlc, that would make no sense if they were already fighters so they added those outfits along with the game itself.
The thing is with Geno is that since he’s owned by Square and considering what they’re like, I agree and think Geno will be deluxe Mii costume but that’s as far as they’ll go. As they would rather promote their bigger properties that they know will sell and people will recognise in and outside of the Smash bubble.
Let’s play devils advocate and say Geno does get upgraded as a fighter, that will be great for Geno fans in the Smash community but outside of it, no one is going to know who he is. He won’t attract anyone who hasn’t bought Smash yet and for Nintendo that’s no good either.
Also he’s got no game they can promote him with since he’s tied to the Super Mario universe so...yeah, unless Nintendo and SE agree to do something with Super Mario RPG, SE won’t even consider it and waste their slot like that, not when they have other franchises they can promote and expect far more profit from.
Cloud was the face of FF so of course he’d sell like hot cakes. And Erdrick/DQ heroes is a beloved icon over in Japan so they know that will also sell like hot cakes (I mean they even have a holiday for anything DQ related getting released lol) In comparison, Geno just wouldn’t have that same effect, he’s infamous in Smash sure, but outside of it, he won’t be bringing in new players who’ve yet to buy Smash or let alone a Nintendo Switch. Not like Cloud and Erdrick was able to do.
I’ve always thought that Banjo getting in as a miracle, but I think I now know how it was possible. Steve. That was the agreement Nintendo and Microsoft agreed to, they would put Steve in to promote Minecraft and in return they’d be able to put in Banjo despite his sadly ‘dead franchise’ status. Although I have heard Microsoft was considering revitalising Banjo, so if that happens, you can’t really say Banjo is irrelevant anymore. XD
Anyway getting off track here, overall if there’s one thing I learned from being a long-time consumer of SE games, they’re not your friends, they don’t care about who you want or what you think, they’ll do what’s best for their company. And to them that’s means making the most of their slot that they’ll save for their bigger franchises that actually are still making profit and use it as a means of promotion. We’re talking about the same people who were promoting Lightning as a model for some clothing brand. (I’m not even joking, this actually happened XD)
So I’m just saying’, they’re not above being shameless with their franchises and their merchandise. XD
Can't wait to see this video to reappear in my recommendations in the near future (implying that Sora will get announced)✌🏿
Let’s hope!
Let’s hope for Toad
The day Sora gets in with Mikey, Donald and Goofy as spirits, the internet would die
It really would
I’ve never got into Kingdom Hearts but I’d be legitimately excited for his introduction since what I’ve seen from the series I can imagine him having a very flash moveset and be fun to watch or play.
With the massive popularity of Kingdom Hearts I’d be surprised if they aren’t given some rep in FP2
This was genuinely an amazing video! You don't have any bias towards Kingdom Hearts but your video was so informative and argued both sides very accurately! Bravo!
Thank you so much! I am really happy you liked it!
@@InkThinks I wish i could tell you i'm being dramatic, but i've watched this so many times in a row after JUST finding this video.
Thanks for this informative video!
If Sora got in Smash I think I would cry. Especially with that tear jerking Kingdom Hearts music lol.
Dude the music is so freaking good
@@InkThinks Yes! And I want the battle music!
@@InkThinks we got em! Sora is finally in Smash! And we got 9 music tracks! Dang what a wild ride… and oh… I did cry lol
Yes Sora for Smash Bros.
Yes!
And Wreck-it Ralph, too.
As a big Kingdom Hearts fan since childhood I do find it very refreshing to see someone coming in from a fairly objective standpoint despite not knowing the series on Sora's inclusion. Most of what I see is either big KH fans trying their hardest to spread the word in good faith, and people who dislike the series presenting their arguments as to why they feel he's unlikely aldo in good faith. Both sides do have some people though that can be a bit stonewall-ish when it comes to their position. But I don't necessarily see the argument that Sora would necessarily need Disney elements to be represented correctly, as Disney has more become a backdrop of sorts in recent entries to the KH original stuff, characters, lore, etc. Though I do have mad respect for bringing up HMK, the boy. One of my favorite KHTubers and definitely someone that can really get me hyped for Sora in Smash.
Sora for Smash Ultimate!!
I am really glad that KH fans are okay with my video haha, it is series with such a passionate fanbase that it was super intimidating for me to make this video. Sora for Smash!
@@InkThinks I get that. It's a big topic with a lot of contention and dicscussion
My only concern about sora joining (even tho my worry is ridiculous and there is nothing to worry about) is that it can cause Donald and Goofy to be referenced in the game and snowball into allowing more than just gaming icons getting into smash. The reason why I worry about this, even tho it sounds like it’s a good thing, is that if this comes true, it makes it possible (even if the chance is astronomically low) that Icarly can make it to smash
Uh oh, he said KH X instead of KH x (pronounced Key)
I’m kinda a gamer like that
_X-Blade!_
Awesome video as always. Stay healthy. Love your content. I wish you a great day from Germany
Danke!
Rest In Peace, Sora. Your spot has NOT been wasted. May your heart be your guiding key.
Edit: NVM BOYS HE HE MADE IT OUT DA FINAL WORLD. See y’all next pass 😈
He still has a chance sora is a disney rep not square enix
He still has a chance in smash
I'm not losing faith until I see a mii outfit
He still have 3 chances
Wow. Almost exactly 1 year later from this video’s posting, Sora was announced and released.
The sad thing is that if we get Sora as DLC for Ultimate no Geno for Geno Supporters and if we get Geno as DLC no Sora for Sora supporters
*Basically it's a one or nothing situation*
OrangeToadGamer 2005 why? They are different companies and different genres?
Sora's chances are indeed gray. It's not just Disney you have to be concerned about, it's also Tetsuya Nomura and Square Enix as a whole. There's so much more to consider when talking about the licensing end of this deal. Let's get this one thing straight; Disney does own the character copyrights of Kingdom Hearts but they require the okay from Nomura and, by extension, Square Enix to use him in anything. This also goes for Smash Bros. The good thing here is that this actually heightens his chances significantly.
1: Yoko Shimomura, composer of the Kingdom Hearts franchise, is also a great friend of Sakurai's and has been doing remixes for Smash Bros. for years now so when it comes to the music end of representation, this one's already in the bag. Your only issue on this front is going to be Ms. Utada Hikaru as she seems to be morbidly defensive of her music's copyright. So much so that you can't even have the game's cutscenes play if her music's playing over it or your video be will ban-hammered faster than Sonic can fart. That's definitely not a deal breaker though because Yoko's original tracks are more than enough to compensate.
2: Nomura and Sakurai are clearly good friends in the industry. Sakurai even once congratulated Nomura on the Kingdom Hearts franchise's recent anniversary celebration, expressing how he can relate to how it feels to work with multiple copyrights all at once thus showing how deeply Sakurai respects Nomura. These two have also clearly been talking to each other often because during the talks for Cloud, Sakurai originally wanted to go for Terra/Tina Branford from FFVI (he even admitted to this himself). I imagine there was also some involvement there when it came to the Geno mii costume making it into Smash for Wii U/3DS as DLC. I think it's rather foolish to assume that Sora and Kingdom Hearts hasn't already been brought up between the two before already when it comes to any kind of inclusion in the Smash Bros. franchise.
3: It's a complicated relationship but Square Enix and Nintendo do have a working relationship as far as we can tell at this time. There's been some spats over hardware specs and the like when it comes to porting Square Enix games to the Nintendo Switch but this seems to be par for the course so I doubt this really hurts anything too much but it's something to keep in mind when it comes to dealing with partnerships and thus licensing deals. Kingdom Hearts: Melody of Memory does have a Nintendo Switch port and it all seems to run fairly smoothly judging from the footage seen in trailers so who knows?
4: Disney. Some say this is the most important word out of them all but you may be quite shocked at how willing Disney would be to putting Sora into a franchise as renowned as Smash Bros. Seeing how loosely they've handled their other licenses in terms of profit sharing and even merchandising shows that Disney's not really as impossible to work with as some seem to just love assuming. I'm not a fan of Disney's whole "buy it all" BS either but it's good to attack a company on what they're actually doing wrong and not what they're actually doing right. Come on now. All they'd need from Disney is the big fat "OKAY" and they're golden. Slap the Disney copyright on the bottom and watch as yet more money is printed for the DLC itself as well as the inevitable Amiibo sales for Sora. Will Donald and Goofy show up along with Sora? FUCK no. Never gonna happen and you don't need it to. We have Riku and Kairi to fill in that gap for them along with a multitude of other Kingdom Hearts franchise regulars that fans have all come to adore over the years. We may even get to see more Final Fantasy characters make cameos which would just be great.
5: The pieces are really kind of lining up for his reveal. Kingdom Hearts: Melody of Memory's random release on all current hardware, Nintendo Switch included, speaks volumes for the barriers already being broken down to make this possible. Add that to the fact that we've seen Sakurai mention Kingdom Hearts by name several times in the past and we have yet to see the Geno mii costume (if he's not a fighter then he'd absolutely get his mii costume revealed along with Sora's reveal) and you've got quite a convincing turnout for Sora being in this game as DLC. I don't know when this is gonna happen but I do think we can expect it to happen sometime in this Fighter's Pass.
TL;DR - Sora's chances are actually more of an 8.5/10 bordering on 9/10 if I'm being brutally honest. He's one of those "finally" additions that just feels right to be added into the game alongside characters such as Ridley, King K. Rool, the Belmonts and of course Banjo & Kazooie. Geno's a side character from a now old and quite frankly random Mario Bros. RPG game. Paper Mario has become more of an RPG figurehead for the plumber than the former SNES title. Geno would be a very random and, opinions aside, lackluster addition to a roster that's clearly aiming for star power (I didn't mean that pun, I swear) so it's most definitely pointing more in Sora's direction. Immortalizing Kingdom Hearts in Smash Bros., a game literally about crossovers being represented in another game literally about crossovers, is too perfect to just simply pass up on.
"A scattered dream that's like a far-off memory. A far-off memory that's like a scattered dream. I wanna line the pieces up. Yours and mine." - Sora (KIngdom Hearts II)
I feel like Sora is one of those characters that is very likely coming whether people want it or not. KH has a huge fanbase and Disney would make a lot of money from the collaboration plus the fact that it would draw in a lot of Disney fans and people who just overall enjoy everything Disney produces.
I think that there is definitely a lot working in his favor
It's no bigger than Final Fantasy's. It's actually a distant 4th of all the Square Enix series.
Yes and Cloud made it in. Kingdom hearts stands a huge chance among the rest of the other possible candidates. Im not saying he has a better chance im just saying the possibility is still there. Even if another FF character gets added Im down for it (Black mage and Barret are who I’m hoping for) but you have to admit that Square has many different options to choose from.
Nice job on this video, I like how you went totally in depth with all of the arguments for both sides and provided evidence as well.
When it came to writing my reply to your community tab I always thought the idea of Disney = bad was a bit weak, sure they might ask for a lot in return but I don’t think this necessarily equals to the deal automatically being unavailable, we don’t actually know how much is invested into each DLC. What I was more so looking for was how many parties would be involved in this which or any potential barriers and while Disney and Nintendo do make deals, I though the specific requirement of Disney needing to go to square Enix could make things more complicated, not impossible but more convoluted compared to going to just one company for a character. Square would essentially have to give permission for Disney to use a character with the chance of no compensation since Disney owns the character.
Also the brawl evidence of them being named feels a bit weak as well. We are talking about a small piece of a game made over 10 years ago that is no longer featured in smash so i doubt it actually holds any weight. This may work against for sora actually since the exclusion of this content could be done to actually enforce the rule.
Also while they may have had a large presence in gaming, Disney characters are typically recognised for being movie or cartoon based which gives them a big distinction compared to characters like Mario. They could just use their gaming counterparts but the fact is that people associate Mickey with cartoons so if he gets in, even with his kingdom hearts design people are gonna think the 4th party barrier will be destroyed unless stated otherwise which opens the flood gates to basically everyone which increases expectations that Nintendo will have to topple over.
Nice job tho, personally I’d rate sora a 3/10. He has many pros but with things from communication being more complicated with more heads than usual with other companies and the fact that 4th party inclusion being a very touchy subject with Disney characters being a massive part of kingdom hearts and the issue of flood gates being open makes sora a uncertain and potentially risky character that may make him undesirable compared to others characters Nintendo can pull from. Both third and first party.
This is a super fair assessment! It’s like I said at the end, it is just such a weird gray area that it is super hard to be accurate in speculations with Sora specifically
InkThinks Thanks for the compliment. It is a grey area of light and dark. Honestly there just isn’t too much info to go off to make a definitive pinpoint in all this.
Pretty sure DQ has multiple copyright holders yet Nintendo were able to make a deal, so communication doesn'tseem to be a fatal factor. With Disney they only ask SE to get Nomura's blessing.
Also you could make that argument you made to mi keu to characters such as dracula and hades. Characters that arguably have bigger and a more notable presence in oyher media compared to yhei4 Videogame counterparts
i know this character will never happen but just out of a request could you talk about Asuka from Senran Kagura as potential marvelous/xseed games rep
oh and sora4smash all the way
Haven't heard that one, but if it starts popping up more I will definitely 100% consider it
@@InkThinks the senran kagura fanbase is very niche assuming because of little attention it has in comparison to the zelda kingdom hearts and final fantasy fanbase has
What about Toad
It's an Anime first and Game Second
But I do admit you got class bro😋
Another argument I’ve heard for Sora in Smash is that some people think that if he got in, Disney would try to buy the series.
What do you think of this argument?
I love kingdom hearts and I still have hope for Sora. Sora has unique moves that can fit moves that fit into smash. Plus, like the majority of characters, Sora has been on a nintendo platform. You can argue Steve, but even Minecraft has been on a nintendo platform as of recently. If Disney does work a deal, it would probably benefit Disney more so and possibly create way for a Disney + Nintendo collab. I'm not saying it'll bring a new ip or anything, but it can open doors. Also, Disney usually considers Sora as a "inbetween" character. Disney doesn't really promote Sora. They've promoted Sora a few times at the parks, but typically Kingdom Hearts gets a little bit of promotion in a few nods to the series such as King Mickey. It can be done, but I think the best way to add Sora would be to nix some of the Disney characters, mostly Donald and Goofy. Make Sora's ultimate his drive form if wanting to nix out trinity in general.
The rights are so complicated that it really gave me a headache trying to figure it all out haha, but I just started playing the game right after I made this video, and even if it is a little clunky it is super charming and I really love the series
@@InkThinks Honestly you'll love the series. There's a few games you can skip if you just want to focus mostly on the story, but otherwise most of the games are fun. The only ones I didn't care for were coded and chain.
So, the thing with pokemon, even when they have one make its debut outside of the games, they are designed for the games, and the team making the pokemon do show them to the animation studio so the anime can come out as soon as possible before or more likely after the games release, along with the teams that work on the tcg, merchandising and so on. The tcg do try hard to not show pokemon cards for things the main team haven't revealed yet for the games. Though there are a few times they accidentally did.
Honeestly the way that Pokemon has balanced their franchise across the different mediums all while keeping things consistent is amazing
This is the best #sora4smash video I've ever seen
Awesome content. Subbed. You are heavily underrated. You make some good points.
Thank you so much!
I have always been skeptical about whether or not Sora would get in, but after your clarifications with his licensing I definitely lean more towards him getting in.
You just showed up in ny recommendations so time to binge for videos lol
Speaking of Crash, can you please do him next and then Conker next double please?? You should really check out Aaronitmar's videos talking about what movesets he wants to see in Smash from those characters and also why he wants those characters in Smash as well.
He already did crash
@@pencilface2453 no I said Crash because I said in a different comment in this comment section that either Crash or Sora will be announced at this year's game awards so who knows. I want him to eventually do Conker though because if Banjo got in, so can Conker and sadly there's not a lot of people out there who even want Conker in Smash which is just sad to me man.
Sora is hard to say. Disney always had videogames, but never been known for them. They already a major entertainment field, and associating non-video game characters would be uncanny and highly debatable.
If we're going for swordsman, Ryu Hayabusas would be the best candidate. He is not only gonna be the only Ninja in Smash, but also one of the only users who WIELDS a katana. He hasn't been active since 2014, that would help promote a new game.
Mickey v Scrooge was the best thing I've seen all day
Haha I found similar footage with Waluigi and Yoshi in my video coming later today. I’m gonna have to by my own Soul Calibur 6 copy so I can use it more 😂
its his moveset that makes him awesome, he is even fun in Smash flash 2, i guess him and Lloyd Irving will be in due to the hint scott were giving, i hope it will be the same like with Shulk. :-)
I'm still looking forward to that Spyro video. As far as Sora is concerned I'm still on the fence about him, the Keyblades design alone would be tricky to mess with considering that Mickey's "face" is on it. Changing the Keyblade IMO wouldn't do Sora justice, yes he does have other Keyblades to wield but the OG Keyblade would make Sora, Sora. Idk.. You did make a good video as usual I just have some doubts
Honestly, I have a lot of doubts too! That is what makes it so interesting imo
Kingdom Hearts story makes sense, and is pretty well constructed (except for KH3 maybe). The only people who say otherwise are those who dislike the fact that it’s Disney and anime put together. The only thing confusing about the series is how it jumped across a bunch of consoles, making it tough to play every game. Like seriously, anything potentially confusing is explained at some point. But nope. People can’t seem to wrap they’re head around the fact that hearts give tangible power in a series called Kingdom Hearts.
*tries to hide visible confusion* Uhhh yeah I totally followed it, easily. I was just... joking! I was joking!
@@InkThinks Didn’t you say you only played 2 hours of the original? And that you were an outsider looking in? That would imply that you haven’t really played the series.
Adding sora to smash is simple, get rid of donald, goofy or any other non videogame characters from his mention or moveset, and replace the mickey mouse keychain with a smash bros logo, put either traverse town or soras home island as the stage, his skins would be his forms from the games (I’d love to see his heartless form as a skin) and exclude any of his disney themed keyblades amd super moves for the final smash, problem solved
I want sora in badly, somebody on twitter made this absolutely beautiful made artwork where sora was in this white void surrounded by memory cards from chain of memories that had pics of all the smash fighters on it like mario sonic megaman, bowser and zelda
but I can live without him, there’s sooooo many unique videogame characters I’d love to see,
so..
My one thought about Sora's chances being higher or lower in being in Smash does relate to Disney's control but not in terms of money. I know another youtuber mentioned it so it's not my own idea (sorry for forgetting his/her name), but one point against Sora might be that Disney would want to throw in too much of the Disney side of KH. I feel like, if anything, Disney would push more for their iconic movie characters over their KH characters. I doubt this would affect Sora's actual inclusion in Smash, but just an interesting thought.
All I'm saying is....Steve from Minecraft is in the Game...Sora has a chance to be in the game. All the doors are OPEN.
I think he WILL make it to Smash 100% because yes he is owned by Disney, but also Disney has made several crossovers with several video game companies such as Wreck-it Ralph, Disney games on Nintendo and Sega platforms, etc. So even though he's owned by Disney, he does have a fantastic moveset for Smash. Not to mention that fact that he also interacts with Kingdom Hearts characters and not just Disney characters (such as Riku and the rest of the gang), and he also does a ton of things alone all by himself without the help of Donald or Goofy (such as defeat bosses, enemies, etc). He also has such a HUGE fanbase and the next step for both Nintendo and Disney would be to put him in Smash because of that (and of course take out the Disney characters and put in Square Enix characters only). So I'm actually very heavily excited to see who the next character is. I think it's either going to be Sora or Crash for sure.
Not only that Square also have made a crossover Mario games before and have been releasing several famous titles to some Nintendo consoles for a few times in the past same with Disney. The problem is those idiots who keeps using the Disney is a greedy company arguements. Those kinds of people who use that stupid arguements and really don't want Sora to be in smash pisses me off mostly since some of them come off very aggressive about it.
I still have faith in him joining we have 4 more chances, we musnt let the dream drop, also kh music would fit perfectly in smash
This aged like fine wine
My question is would his inclusion open the possibility that characters like Android 21, Starkiller or any other character that is in the same position as Sora could be added?
Hm..... Thats actually a really good question.....
Don't Cal from Star Wars: Fallen Order because he new to. Also a video game character so i ok with Starkiller, Cal and the Android 21 if she not part of the Dragon Ball Z characters that all.
@@Twilight17Petkoton I mean I don't necessarily want them in the game but it is worth thinking about. Because the arguments made for Sora can just as easily be applied to some those characters as well.
@@christianlopez707
I highly doubt it because the Kingdom Hearts Melody of memory is going with Sora Kingdom Hearts 1 outfit and default keyblade on rhythm based game.
So their are other video game characters instead of Sora all the time.
Because that more toxic and selfish at the same time because Sora is more Disney then Square Enix.
So don't go with may my heart be guiding key it following your heart.
Because Kingdom Hearts is now the next memes on words that all.
Your should look at the cut scenes instead game ok.
@@Twilight17Petkoton none of what you said makes any sense.
Excellent rundown on the factors for Sora.
The way it seems to me is that Sora has possibly been a "in the works" character for Smash for a while, similar to how Steve was for 5 years. It's likely that, like Steve, there may be some purely logistical nightmares involved with pulling the trigger on Sora that we just won't ever see until he's confirmed. Despite Nintento and Disney both likely seeing the $ signs from putting Sora in Smash, it just might be a complicated act that takes a while for both companies. Now regarding some other characters...
I don't think we are ever getting Geno. It has nothing to do with Square-Enix and everything to do with how Nintendo feels about characters from Mario's RPG games. Given the recent reveal from Paper Mario devs about the strict rules now for character and story building, Nintendo might actively be denying older characters that don't fall in line with those rules (i.e. TTYD characters and most MarioRPG characters)
Based on my observations, 3 reps is the apparent limit right now for 3rd parties. Capcom, Konami, and Sega (technically) have all hit 3 and stopped. Square and now Microsoft have reached their 2nd rep, so based on this theory they have room for one more each. Call me crazy, but considering how rapidly friendly Microsoft has been with Nintendo these past years, I wouldn't be shocked if they got their 3rd rep in this same Fighters Pass (Master Chief being the obvious guess)
I don't think Bandai-Namco gives enough of a damn about their video game character's "legacy" or popularity to really push for another character rep other than Pac-Man. If anime characters were on the table, I bet you Goku and Luffy would've been in ages ago, but that's not the case. They helped make the past two smash games, got Pac-Man in, and have Mii costumes and stuff. Their corporate is probably good with that.
I honestly have no clue how it is going to all play out, which is part of what makes it so fun
Huh, you know I never really thought of it like that. I always thought it was more of an SE problem since SE don’t seem to care much about SMRPG, or at least not enough to merit Geno being a fighter (especially if they have nothing to promote him with). Or at least that’s the impression I get from SE. From what I’ve seen, they’ll only pick characters that will benefit them the most, especially if it’s like with DQXI S and they have a game coming that could give them boosted revenue alongside the character they picked to promote it.
I never thought of the possibility that it might be Nintendo who were the problem. But I guess you have a point, not to mention they don’t have to pay any royalties to use characters like Geno or Mallow for Paper Mario, since they’re SE-owned, they would have to pay money to include them despite them being tied to the SM universe. Maybe that’s why they ended up removing Geno’s cameo in the remake of the Mario & Luigi RPG game it was in, because they didn’t want to pay money to SE just for a cameo. I just thought SE asked them to remove it from the remake XD
I gotta say, I applaud you for actually studying the history of KH and the arguments people have over Sora as a Smash DLC probability. Every time in every smash group that I’ve been in there was always the same arguments being said over and over like “No because Disney” and “No because KH sucks and Sora is a lame anime swordsman character that will play like Robin” and it annoys me. I’ve also studied and gave my opinions of his chance being in smash and honestly he has potential. Stuff like Donald and Goofy being a “Necessity” to accurately represent Sora and KH is not much of argument since like you said Cloud is in smash without Barret and Tifa and they are a huge part of FF7. I really don’t think that a full representation is needed to have Sora in smash and another example that I’ve used in arguments about Sora is Terry Bogard. Being DLC 4 Terry came in with a plethora of content from the company he represents (SNK) but out of all the Stage, Music and Cameos that are in, one certain MAJOR character didn’t appear and that was Mai Shiranui. A female that is considered one of SNK’s most iconic characters. Obviously we all know why she was cut from the game and that was Sakurai’s famous quote “Smash is game for good boys and girls” and it clearly shows that even if someone as big and Iconic as Mai is to her company SNK, being out for certain reasons won’t harm Sora or his representation in any way. KH has a lot of original content that can easily replace Disney IP’s (Mickey, Donald and Goofy) and the Mickey keychain on his Keyblade wouldn’t be a problem at all. That I could say would be the tie to represent Disney well. If Sora gets in smash I’ll ensure you that Sakurai would get the job done well in his own way. If not, well maybe next time. I don’t like giving percentages on how likely a character can join the roster but the only percentage I can give to any eligible video game character would be 50% chance. Only time will tell until the FP2 is over and all slots are filled.
I am glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for the thoughts!
Another complication to the strict "characters must originate from games" thing, is Dracula appearing in smash. It's certainly a gray area, and could be explained, but it's a weird situation
Same thing goes with Hades
@@InkThinks ohhh, i didn't think of that one, but yeah, other characters as well like Death and Alucard. And maybe zombie but it feels like too a lesser extent. But zombie is a playable character unlike the others
Mythology characters like Dracula or Zeus are in the public domain, anyone can create their own version of the character. Those who are present at Smash belong to a video game company and are not considered 4th party characters
Silly question, but is there a chance you could do a character that isn’t as highly requested as Master Chief, Sora, or Crash? Like Remu or Hat Kid or Rayman or somebody like that?
The Gunnshow Rayman is coming soon
Ya know if the thing was they could get him in but there couldn't be any Disney references, were golden.
No Mickey on the keyblade allowed? Easy, just make him wield a different keyblade.
No Disney music?
Again easy, the kingdom hearts series has plenty of iconic tunes that are original to those games.
No Donald or Goofy?
Simple. Kingdom hearts has a HUGE cast so there's plenty to pull from for spirits, background appearances or even the final smash.
No Disney worlds?
Come on. Sora has gone to plenty of original worlds, the only hard part would be choosing which one.
In conclusion, I personally don't see Disney as holding Sora back. In my opinion we just need to get the right people together and it will all work itself out.
This comment should have more likes.
If sora did join smash I wonder what music could fit for smash since the music for that character is what I'm looking forward to aside from fun to play
I'd say my rating is the same as yours. There's not a lot of characters I think stand out as likely but I've been following sora for so long there's that residue. It was fun helping out a touch with the script on this one. Definitely the most comprehensive guide on sora's chances out there that I've seen.
Also, minor thing. Kingdom hearts X is actually pronounced kingdom hearts chi(like dragon ball). I should've told you before. Woops
This is a success in my book if you liked it!
I think the main giveaway for me of Sora being in Smash is the name of Nintendo's sub company designed solely for dealing with other companies, specifically Sora Ltd., which Sakurai is the head director, and the theme of Sora is every heart uniting under 'One Sky'...
I think it is an interesting coincidence, but I also think it would be hard to point to a correlation between the two in a meaningful way given how old Sora Ltd is
I would love for him to make it in, He has so much potential!
Totally agree. Way more than the “anime swordsman” a lot of people make him out to be
Last Year I Played A Bit Of The Newest Kingdom Hearts Cause My Big Brother Has It
Not to mention Sora was put in various final fantasy mobile games so why would the allow him in a mobile game not many people care about and wouldn’t bring much profit but would deny the biggest fighting game of all time with characters like Mario, Sonic , Pikachu and Steve
How big do you think Sora really is? Square Enix happens to own yet another icon that is comparable to Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog and it sure as hell isn't him.
@@backup368 are you thinking of Lara Croft?
@@backup368 yet he's the most highly requested character from the smash community.
@@jacoryarnett7347 Whether Sora is a character or not, you're still going to be a loyal customer of this product, so giving you what you want should not be that much of a priority over which character could sell more copies of Smash Bros.
24:05 You got that right
Its honestly amazing how passionate KH fans are
You are literally the only smashtuber that isn't spreading misinformation about this character.
Had to come here after the stench of aaronminter and larry lurr's videos.
I’m glad you enjoyed it! I’m still really proud of this video
@@InkThinks i hope you do a follow-up video on sora. Since a lot of people have commented new arguments (and to once again clarify your position on the sephiroth situation)
@@InkThinks as well as the 7 squares list
Dang, I completely forgot Mickey and Donald were mentioned in the chronicles section
One argument for possible inclusion would be sora being on nintendo consoles in the past and now on switch melody of memory is on there. I dont think disney or square mind if sora is on smash bros, it's just up to Sakura to say yes or no for the most part
3:40 the Banjo franchise has sold over 7 million and Banjo stars in all of them so theres no reason to exclude those games from the list of sales
"sora doesn't use a sword." buddy, a keyblade is a sword.
True, but it's a sword that's also a magic staff, a bazooka, dual handguns, a jet hammer, yo-yos, a drill arm, a flag, skates and armblades, claws, a shield, a lance, a nanomachine control unit, and a tower. It can also shoot fireballs, wind gusts, lighting strikes, water torrents, and ice chunks. So... I think there's enough diversity to separate him from the other swordsmen, who are already have a pretty diverse range of gameplay styles
@@AndrewDeng yea but out right saying "it isn't a sword." Is a little bit of a overstatement. I'm not denying that sora will be different from different sword fighters.
I want to interject that Sora is brimming with personality. While maybe not 3 dimensional, he is an extremely optimistic character to the point of being naive and trusting to a fault.
As the series goes on literally every good guy gets a keyblade, wouldn't that undermine the fact that he's supposed to be the chosen one? Well I don't think it's his ability to wield a weapon that makes him special. He's literally so heartwarmingly friendly he let like 3 people take residence in his soul when the didn't have a body.
TL;DR he's just an average Joe with a strong heart and I think that's loads relatable
I truly think he’ll be added to smash just because people have been demanding it for a while now. Bet you did great justice to this and I love the fact that you truly did your research. I hope he gets in and think that’s it’s likely because of Nintendo’s past interactions with Disney and the brawl files with Donald and Mickey. We don’t know but we can hope. Thanks for the awesome vid!
Not to mention Square have been interact with Nintendo alot in the past also
Sora pls come on smashbros your my favorite game character
Nice video but i wanna mention a few things:
-mickey is soon gonna be public domain like dracula
-Dracula is in smash
-Disney only care about Nomura specifically being happy, hence why they go to SE
-OG KH characters/monsters can also represent the franchise
Haha Mickey very well could be public domain soon, but Disney keeps trying their hardest to push that back. There are whole copyright laws called “the Mickey Mouse law” 😂
@@InkThinks well the main point is just to establish that KH mickey can be considered a different iteration of mickey mouse the same way Castlevania dracula is different from the the original... also looking into the law, i thought it can only be extended up to 20 years from the priginal 75. Mickey was published around 1923
Mythology characters like Dracula or Zeus are in the public domain, anyone can create their own version of the character. Those who are present at Smash belong to a video game company and are not considered 4th party characters
@@rbggsc6719 you do realise Microsoft/bandai namco aren't primarily a videogame company right? As well as mythology still being works of fiction right? (In fact dracula himself is an actual work of fiction since he originated from a novel) As well as Mickey mouse literally going into public domain soon?
@@Megajmaster1000 The difference between Dracula and Mickey Moose is that I can use dracula (the public domain version not the version of Dracula owned by a company) without being denounced contrary to the mouse of Disney that is not in the public domain
I really enjoy these videos. The following is just my opinion, I legitimately enjoy talking about it and I'm not talking down anyone.
But I don't see how making comparisons to Cloud and his party and Sora and his Disney friends even works. If Sakurai had wanted to include Tifa, Barrett, Aerith, as part of Cloud's final smash, then he could have. It doesn't break Cloud to not have his friends, he is supposed to be an "independent merc" after all (or whatever, I'm not super into either of these examples). But Sora showing up with Disney characters? That would pretty much break the "no 4th party" imo. I understand your point on "video game versions of the characters", I really do, you could count them as totally unique versions of Donald and Goofy, but they're still Disney characters (and while Sora is as well, he truly originates from Final Fantasy games mixing with Disney movies = Kingdom Hearts, so I see that as valid). I just think not including Goofy or Donald would pretty much be impossible for a character who has direct and extremely strong ties to Disney media (even the Mickey charm is something that I think would still be crossing the line into 4th party honestly). I mean, it's Kingdom Hearts, Sora is inextricably linked to Disney, who is primarily a video game company. What even is Sora or Kingdom Hearts without any reference or at least characters from Disney showing up in some manner? It would just be Final Fantasy but with cartoonier clothing, a younger protagonist, keys, and censored/nonexistent references to other media. And if anything, I could see Epic Mickey in Smash before I could see Sora. Even that is more game oriented and rooted in Mickey's history, conveyed in a game, rather than direct ties to movies that we all know and love.
On top of this, you gave Doom Slayer a 0/10 but Sora a 7.5/10, which from my point of view I found kind of ironic. Sure, ok, obviously this is your opinion and I have my own, again, it doesn't really matter and I'm just throwing this out there to talk about it. But you claimed that, while Scorpion could be dialed down (when both MK and Doom were both part of the gaming controversy of the 90's), Doom could not be. MK is based on violence. That is what makes it distinct, as you stated in your own video, from Street Fighter and other fighting games. Doom could probably be toned down as well, although I understand your thought process. Sora without Disney? I can't see it, yet you can't see Doom with violence? Blood and guts can be erased, but whole characters, stories, themes, events, etc? No, I don't see that happening (but of course if it didn't actually matter to Disney or Nintendo, which I think you've convinced me it wouldn't have been, then I don't know what is keeping them from including him).
Back to Scorpion, he literally pull off his face to show a skull, burns people with hell fire he breaths out, and uses a spear and swords (which obviously swords aren't a huge issue to Smash). But Doom Slayer is just a big guy in a suit with guns, a chainsaw, a sweet energy sword, etc, who is just as violent and has been wanted in MK itself as well as Smash. And in the case of weapons being a big deal, I really don't think that is a problem as much anymore given the characters they've added since Snake. I just think Doom Slayer is still one of the most likely. And yes, I would like to see Scorpion as well. I do understand the whole "readjustment with the esrb", but I really think that wouldn't be an issue either, seeing as he could literally be toned down just as easily as Scorpion. Honestly the worst problem I think they'd have with either is promoting the game with the Smash Bros. Ultimate x DOOM or Mortal Kombat, because when they have M games they don't normally show the title (like Travis Touchdown's mii costume). Both have a lot of violence and dark elements, so seeing Smash connected and promoting them might be a buffer keeping them out, but I don't think it would be an issue any more.
Personally I would love for people to have gotten their beloved Sora in Smash, but I didn't really see it happening to begin with. Also, yes, less JRPG reps please. At least for now. However, if Sephiroth was the choice when they couldn't get Sora, I think that was the best choice, and frankly I welcomed him.
Honestly I didn't have really high hopes for sora, but this video gave me more hope for him making it in
I’m super glad!
If sofa gets in, I have no doubt Donald, goofy, and Mickey will get spirits on his spirit board
I will say though even though Sora is a Disney character Square does have use of the character so if he gets in I think Genos chances are decreased because I’d imagine they’d want to keep it with only one rep per company in the fighters pass and we’ve seen that be true so far
Its so hard to say haha these rights are such a headache