Classical Composer Reacts to Song For America (Kansas) | The Daily Doug (Episode 229)
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- #Kansas #SongForAmerica #KansasReaction
In this episode of #TheDailyDoug, I'm reacting to Song For America by Kansas. We're using their 2009 live performance from Washburn University in Topeka, KS as our source material. I am largely unfamiliar with the more 'proggy' songs by KS, and I am very impressed with their musicianship. This poem, though, captured my attention just as much as the music. Enjoy!
Reference Video: • Kansas - Song For Amer...
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For a live performance, nothing beats Two for the Show. Absolutely a brilliant recording
It's fantastic. A 2,5 hour show of the band at the peak of its powers and yet, there's only an abridged version of Song for America. That's both a crying shame and a major head-scrather!
Amen. Fantastic live album!
@@Om-maa I still have my original vinyl LP that I bought back then! It really is brilliant !!
My very first album and I think the best live album.
Never listened Genesis Seconds Out I guess? Indeed Two for the Show is great but Seconds Out is lonely at the top. ;-)
Kerry Livgren wrote (thought) this masterpiece as he was flying across the country. You absolutely must hear the studio version. Critical parts have been left out of this love performance, and Walsh's voice, which was magnificent for their 1st 10 years, was nearly destroyed by this time.
I have it and it's great. I saw all the original members perform this live in 1976 in Chicago. It was very close to the record. Smoked my shorts.
First album - **Journey From Mariabronn**. The song that made me fall in love with Kansas in 1975. Tell us what you think of the progressions in that one. You will love it. Kansas attracted me due to 1. The violin - I played in school for 7 years. 2. The classical structures of their music. And 3. The poster cover of John Brown on the debut album.
The Wall is another fantastic song from Kansas.
yes, yes, yes, oh my god, yes.
If I dirt knap,( If Jesus Tarrys) I would request at my funeral That The Wall would be played.
I was worried Doug would end up doing the live video version, especially the later version. It just misses all the special parts that were in the original. I wish Doug listens to the original studio version.
Yea. Nothing beats the original band. Saw them in 1975 with Mahogany Rush & Queen for $6.50. What a night that was!
Yeah, I really miss the synth solo in the original, but there is so much passion in the ritartdano of this version.
He should really start with the studio version on songs like this.
Kerry Livgren was a great lyricist, & musician!
I always loved their song The Closet Chronicles, with the wonderful lyric: Daydreams filled his night times, and night-dreams filled his days
One of my favorites.
Great song ... inspired by Howard Hughes, of course.
"The closet's fully empty now" was one of my favorites
And it might as well be raining, cause the sunlight hurts his eyes
Agreed on the studio version being far better. The orchestra lumbers this one down and although the sound isn't bad for a live performance, but it doesn't compare to the studio sound.
Definitely would have been preferable to hear the 1975 Steve also before he screwed up his voice so much.
This version does not have the cool synth solo or the piano interlude which segues really well into the odd meter instrumental section. Tom Brislin who plays keyboards with Kansas now just nails this song live and takes care of the complicated keyboard work on this interlude all by himself. Very impressive. The odd-meter instrumental section always sounded like trains to me and reminds me of the industrial revolution. All within the context of the passage of time. Not my favorite version of this song, but thanks for listening to Song For America! Miracles out of Nowhere, Journey From Mariabronn, Icarus - Borne on Wings of Steel.............Just sayin'
He is great in Renaissance as well, Tom Brislin!!!
@@malekmo64 and in Yes during the 2001 Symphonic tour, one of my favorite Yes live albums, he's a real class act and his work on Kansas latest album The Absence Of Presence is amazing
Journey From Mariabronn!!!!
Closet Chronicles and The Wall
The newer Kansas lineup is a talented band and I enjoy their music. As far as playing this with one keyboardist it isn't all that tough given today's technology. I do this one myself as well. But...one must remember keyboards of that era didn't have the ability to setup multiple zones and splits much less instantaneous sound changes at the press of a switch. Kansas very cleverly layered their instruments with Walsh doing all the organ work , Livgren played almost all piano parts. Livgren did most of the synth work later on although Walsh did a great job with that Arp Pro Soloist. They both had Arp String synths. It was interesting how Steinhardt's strings added an interesting layer on top of all the keyboards. Truly a great band and they brought an American side to the European progressive period.
Kansas is a fantastic band!
The studio version and album is masterful.
The original version from the Song For America album is not to be missed!! Really worth a listen, not only for the great music and lyrics but also for the great sounds of the 1970s!! Please do check out the original (and not the edited Best Of version, either)!
You'd love Miracles out of Nowhere for the music and for its ambivalent but positive-seeking text.
I met this band with the live album Two For The Show in the late 70's and must admit that these guys were quiet unknown here in France at the time. This album remains IMO one of the best live recordings ever released and most of the material played reveals more energy and is better than the studio versions. Obviously this engages only myself. I've always been very respectful to their musicianship. Phil Ehart is really a rhythm wonder and has always blown me out. Kerry Livgren is one of the best rock & prog rock songwriter of all times. (If not the best). On another hand despite loving so much Song For America, I confess not being that much enthousiast with this particular version presented here. Keep on digging into their work Doug ! Their 70's production is a music wonderland but even what came afterwards contains a huge amount of really really good stuff. Prog on !
Two for the Show was indeed a great album, happy I managed to find a cd version of it.
Glad to see France loves Kansas too and you're right about Kerry Livgren, genius songwriter Livgren's songs were made for Steve Walsh's voice, pure magic ! Genius band 👏
Wish you had done the album version or at least an earlier live version that included the late great Robbie Steinhart. RIP..
I miss Robbie...
Since you did this song, my favorite Kansas tune, you should also do "The Pinnacle", which is the last song from the album "Masque". I would recommend the studio version. There are live versions out there but the vocals on most are pretty rough, back when Steve Walsh's voice was not doing so well.
Agreed! There is a fantastic live version from the early days that is amazing, a Don Kirshner's Rock Concert video I believe, but it was taken down a long time ago, probably because it's included in the box set? The band was in peak form, camera and sound work are great, and to see Walsh sing that high melody at the end is astounding!
For the studio version, this RUclipsr did a good job combining Mysteries And Mayhem and The Pinnacle. (basically just removed the fade out/fade in between the songs):
ruclips.net/video/DfsSTepryMY/видео.html
If you're going to do The Pinnacle, you MUST include Mysteries and Mayhem FIRST so it segues properly into The Pinnacle AS IT WAS INTENDED!!!
Any live Kansas track you listen/or react to should come from Two for the Show, their later 1970s double live album. It is performed by the original 6 members, including one of the world's greatest composers, orchestrators, lyricists, guitarists, & pianists - Kerry Livgren. And back then, Steve Walsh's vocals were the best in prog rock. At this point, it had been destroyed.
With Kansas, always go back to the 1970s!!
Their Masterpiece in my opinion.
Yeah, the studio version is special. The power of Dave Hope's bass makes it. Hopefully you'll listen again to that one. "So rich in Earth's delight..."
Kansas, one of the most amazing bands ever. Extreme creative talent.
There’s an interesting rhythmic thing I love here that’s easy to miss. It first shows up at 05:47 as part of the introduction, and is reprised again at the fade-out. Most of the group is playing in a slow 4 (maybe call it 4/2?), but the violin part is a repeating pattern of 7 notes. So they only line up every 4 slow measures.
Also, I find it easiest to analyze irregular meters by breaking them down into groups of 2 and 3. So that instrumental break in the middle that’s in 9 can be felt as 2+2+2+3.
Idea: interview Keri Livgren and get into his head about what has made him one of the most gifted composers and songwriters of our time.
Finally some comments on the lyrics...FANTASTIC.. THEY ARE GREAT POETS
Your knowledge blows me away doug. I need to go back to school!
Definitely check out the albums: 'Song for America', 'Masque', 'Leftoverture' (you did Magnum Opus) and 'Point of Know Return'. You'll like the deep tracks. 'Lamplight Symphony' and Incomudro-Hymn to the Atman' are 2 of my favs off of SFA besides the title track.
The vid had 4 original members. I saw them at the Spectrum in Philly in Dec. 1977 for the 'Point of Know Return Tour' parts of which were recorded for the 'Two for the Show' double Live album. I also saw them in the 90's at the Valley Forge Music Fair (3 original members) in the 90's and at the American Music Theatre in Lancaster, PA. in 2006 (3 original members) This vid is great in that it has Kerry Livgren. I was also unaware that they ever did anything with an orchestra. Thanks for that.
Lamplight Symphony always gives me goosebumps. The Wall is also epic
The next song to do from this album is "Hymn for the Atman".
I always liked the short stop in the first measure and near the end but they left it out, live. If you want to hear a beautiful Kansas poem, Lamplight Symphony, on the same record, brings tears to my eyes every time I hear it. Such a beautiful song!
It was a good show but the studio version is much better. Walsh lost his mighty voice in the 80's (but he is OK here) and I don't like Billy Greer's bass tone at all, Dave Hope's bass lines were such a big part of Kansas sound.
I agree the studio version overall sound is better and the bits they changed for this arrangement, I'm not used to so I didn't "like" those so much either. Stubborn boy, am I. It does get across the musical themes equally well, though.
Steve did a much better job singing some of the other songs during this concert. My favorites were No One's Home (about Howard Hughes) and the Ghost/Rainmaker medley. No One's Home has my favorite violin solo. Steve Morse played a nice solo on Ghost.
@@mrbill1390
Closet Chronicles is about Howard Hughes.
@@HurtCow You are right. A senior moment. I really like the violin solo in No One's Home and Closet Chronicles is also a great song. So many great songs.
Dave Hope was Kansas' secret weapon. His bass parts are so cool and powerful.
I was at this concert in Topeka. Bitterly cold night. Lots of really old people in attendance. From Lawrence. Rock Chalk!
With or without herbal divises, my favorite Kansas is Rainmaker. A masterpiece of Symphonic Rock and Spirituality. Thank God for all prayers without comprehensive answers.
One of my first concerts was a Queen concert, with Kansas as the second act with an opening by Mahogany Rush. Pretty cool show.
WOW!!!
@@crusheverything4449 I only got to see Frank Marino & Mahogany Rush (Dec 77) out of those 3. Turned down a chance to see Queen either when they were doing Queen II tour. They never came this way again, they became too big. Kansas sadly didn't come to UK until 1978 by which time I had moved on from Uni.
@@clansome One of the best concerts I ever attended was Frank Marino and Mahogany Rush on the World Anthem tour. Electric is wholly inadequate to describe the crowd. Amazing vibe between the band and the fans.
@clamsome@@t00by00zer - Man, Frank Marino is one of the few guitar greats I grew up with that I’ve never seen live. I was hoping to remedy that, but he has announced his retirement, due to a debilitating medial condition, as you may have heard. What a shame, not just for me, but for all of his fans and mostly for Frank. I wish him the best; he’s one of the best ever.
Same here!!
He already had a tour booked and I had tickets to a great little club nearby….then covid delayed it….then he retired. 😭
Kansas is my dads favorite band. I had the pleasure of seeing them live (with the new singer) with my parents twice. both shows were fantastic and we even won a guitar signed by all of them and got to meet them backstage. i was kinda star struck but they were all incredibly nice guys. it was awesome!
So glad you did this one, Doug! It's one of my fave tunes by any band. Have you done any Dixie Dregs yet? Steve Morse was Kansas' guitarist in the 80s, but his best work was done with the Dregs. He wrote all that music and it was really progressive. I suggest their tune, "Odyssey".
Yes Doug, I hope you listen to all of their music. They are amazing.
Have you heard Rick Wakeman's Journey To The Center Of The Earth? Quite symphonic.
And, Steve Hackett's live shows are great, too. Good to continue to hear well played Genesis music.
I'm seeing Steve Hackett again (5th time) next Friday. After Genesis on Monday. Should be quite a week!
I think it’s sad that Steve isn’t on the Genesis tour! What I have seen from bootlegs so far the other guy isn’t anywhere near as good
“Song For America” is truly one of their best songs to listen to and review! It definitely ranks up as one of my favorite songs by them.
One of my favorite bands, saw them 4x in concert..
One of my all time favorite bands. I owned the first 5 albums, and played the hell out of them. Saw Kansas live twice when Kerry Livgren was with them. Awesome!
You don't need to do it for youtube but definitely listen to the studio cut. Much cleaner.
Loved the analysis and reaction to this amazing classic from Kansas. Just saw them 2 years ago live and they sounded every bit as good!!!
An amazing song written and performed by amazing musicians while speaking the truth regarding our human plight…
Great review Sir!
Crazy, beautiful, time signatures. One of my fav bands.
I discovered the band Kansas when I was 7 or so. (yes 7) I was learning guitar and I was given "Dust in the Wind" as a piece to help learn finger picking. My dad LOVED that song, so he bought the entire "Point of Know Return" album, and found he only liked that one song.
I found that while I enjoyed that tune, I LOVED all of the rest of that album more.... That was my start into prog.
I learn so much about music when I watch your videos, thank you!
Kansas was the first band I saw after I started smoking weed .... what a show ! it was Dec 1980 btw . Leftoverture tour .
Lamplight Symphony is another piece from the song for America album that really got to me as a teenager when it came out. I was lucky enough to get to see them many times in there early years. I got meet Kerry at Cornerstone Festival outside Chicago in 1985. It was an amazing week of music in a very relaxed setting in the country.
This is so sad to choose this version :-(. How did that happen?
Doug, I severely enjoyed this video by my all-time favorite, Kansas! You’re someone I would really like to hang out with, have some drinks and listen to and discuss great music, such as this. Keep the great stuff coming, man!
Enjoyed this! Different version and different take on the song. Doug's analysis and interpretation dead interesting, as always. Kansas to me were almost the only US band (that I was aware of) that bore comparison with the massive UK prog movement of the 1970s. Its been a while - I need to listen again to them some more. And still going! Like Genesis (albeit temporary and final), whom I am off to see in Leeds on Monday. If you'd told me in the 1970s these bands would still have been around in 2021, I'd have asked you what you had been drinking!
This version is OK, but it pales compared to the original.
Yes, Two for the Show is one of the greatest live albums of all time
Love the latest version from POKR live and beyond.
Original is tons better and shows all the energy and creativity a young band's 2nd album could show.
Great reaction to a brilliant song by KANSAS ... please check out "No One Together" from the Audio Visions album, imho the most progressive song by Kansas.
One of my all time favorite songs by any band.
Cried in high school to hear this. Cried today, posted the studio cut on Truth Social
I was at this show as well as the soundcheck and got to meet my heroes!!
I still have my Takamine 12-string guitar autographed by the whole band
Great review Doug!
Future Kansas review might include something off of their Masque album, mysteries and mayhem and The pinnacle. This was originally done as a single song, but record label forced the band to break it up into two songs for “ radio friendly” music. Icarus borne on wings of steel, child of Innocence also worth a listing. Looking forward to more Kansas reviews. Keep up the good work.
WOW I have a lot to say on this one. If you like this piece, then you should review Cheyenne Anthem the 7th track off their 4th album Leftoverture. This is my favorite Kansas album ( Song for America ). I would love to see your reaction to Incomudro - Hymn to the Atman This is the last piece on this album. Kerry Livgren was studying different faith, and later through his studies he concluded that Christianity was his true faith. This piece is Hindu, but I have always had a way to see the lyrics applying to a Christian view point. The 2nd piece I would like to see your reaction to is "Lamplight Symphony", ( This is the 3rd piece on this album. ) For me this is the #1 best love song ever written by a rock band. Now obviously I have not seen every love song so I exaggerated, but you get my point.
A big second to Lamplight Symphony - it's one of their masterpieces in my opinion.
Add another vote for Lamplight Symphony, with an added reco for Lonely Wind.
@@mrbill1390 Absolutely. Lonely Wind and Lamplight Symphony are two of their best pieces. Doug, please check them out.
Thanks Doug, and thanks to who proposed this, I never heard it before and it's really brilliant
Check out the Two For The Show live album version if you liked this.
@@michaelrstover Thanks, Michael, I'll do it
RIP Robby Steinhardt :( Kansas (opening for Bad Company) at the Chicago Stadium was my first rock concert. They opened with this song.
Interesting commentary. Many of your comments brought me back to a class I took two years before this song was released, a summer Music Theory course in 1973 at Wichita State University.
I just watched you for the first time with the Ozzy video. So, I looked to see if you had listened to Kansas, and this was the song that I was thinking about. Surely, you have to have know some Kansas! Classically trained. Livgren was a man seemingly searching for the "meaning of life", etc in his songs and music. So much of what is in the Bible is in the lyrics. If you know biblical verses then you know they are there. But, if in fact, you've never really gotten into Kansas I highly recommend "The Wall". A deep, soul-touching song that every man who has been introspective can relate to.
Very interesting review. Love the fancy music lingo:0)
You should listen to the full version with the keyboard solo.
The Pinnacle from the album Masque is a masterpiece you will have fun listening to.
Kansas is one of my all time favorite bands. I just saw them last weekend for their 50th anniversary tour in Atlanta. I went with my son who is 29 and also enjoys their music. Long live KANSAS.
I always heard the last line as coming from the point of view of Native Americans waiting long (hence a "weary race") for a return to the way things were. There's a shift in pronouns in the lyrics, back and forth between "we" and "they", that highlights the conflict. I might be wrong, of course.
Cheyenne Anthem continues with this theme, and I hope Doug explores that great song soon!
"I need to listen to more Kansas" ... I say those words anytime life seems to get too tough and gets me down ... one of the most underrated bands ever. I hear something different every time I listen to them. There are LOTS more that worth a reaction!
The Studio version of this is some of Kerry’s best. My two favorite LPs were Song For America and the third one, Masque. Great deep cuts prior to radio success.
One of my favourite songs of any band, but I don't think this version does it justice: the strings arrangement in particular, especially at the beginning, tries to overdo things and covers the clever lines of the studio version
I actually was fortunate to attend this concert since I lived in Topeka at the time. I also attended the dress rehearsal in which they had to restart this song, but they nailed it here. Even though Steve's voice has aged some, it is still better than most singers. The music and harmonies were still outstanding. Kansas and Queen were the best live performers I've ever seen, and the current version is well worth seeing.
Definitely need to listen the the original recording. This incarnation of Kansas has talented musicians, but three of the original six are gone and the orchestration takes away a little of the edge. When the original album came out in 1975, I was 14 and had never heard anything like it. Still one of the best songs musically and lyrically.
I Was 14 also in 1975, first year of high school, and I loved and still love YES, KANSAS, RENNAISANCE, GENESIS, RUSH, EAGLES, KING CRIMSON, LED ZEPPELIN, JACKSON BROWNE, FLEETWOOD MAC, TOTO, CHICAGO, SUPERTRAMP, ELO, and of course THE BEATLES.
Still gives me goose bumps.
I'd prefered Doug played the original studio track from 1975.
excellent analysis
I was at this show. It was great. Only 1000 people got to see it. They actually missed a queue on a song and had to go back and start a couple bars back lol
Love the introduction too!
For a similar set of lyrics, check out their song No One Together. Another great Kerry Livgren piece.
You may also find it interesting that Dave Hope (the original bassist) retired to become a minister, and Kerry Livgren went on to form AD, a Christian rock group in the ‘80s. His work through the ‘70s tended to explore philosophical questions, and in the late ‘70s he and Dave converted and the lyrics in Kansas reflected that (which also led to Steve Walsh leaving). When Steve left, John Elefante replaced him who, with his brother Dino, would be producers, songwriters, and often performers in contemporary Christian music, in particular the new direction of Christian band Petra after John Schlitt became their new vocalist.
One of my favorite Kansas songs, if not my very favorite, but please check out the studio version too!
This is what I like - strong America!
The studio recording has the most Chris Squire-ish bass part that was not played by Chris Squire.
Love this song." The Pinnacle ",(studio version) should be next Doug.
In terms of performance, in my opinion, the recently deceased Robby Steinhardt was the heart and soul of the band (though Kerry Livgren wrote most of their music and Phil Ehart is an amazing percussionist). As several others have commented, this version pales in comparison to the studio recording or even the 2002 live rendition: ruclips.net/video/_HkXN02BDgc/видео.html
An incredibly powerful concert. It was like the audience were all family members there was so much love for this band.
Steve Walsh sang his ass off.
Hi Doug! You're the first reactor to this who picked up the 9/8 meter (not to mention the myriad other segments, all in different meters and keys, if you can say they were in a key for more than a measure or two). Wish you would've selected the pristine studio version, which I have on LP. Beautifully arranged epic piece. Just a tidbit here, but you, being a composer, might be interested in knowing the composer of this piece (I hesitate to call it a "song") was CLASSICALLY trained Kerry Livgren, who isn't even in this video you picked.
Really enjoyed watching you hear the progressions, the meters, and all the stuff Livgren stuffed into this opus. Everyone else just listens, but I can see your gears turning because you actually recognize what's going on. Someday, on your own, I'd highly recommend the studio version: ruclips.net/video/7q-9P0Y0e2s/видео.html Sometimes a second listen is fun because I noticed you were parsing the lyrics while short one- or two-measure sequences flew by, so you might hear them better the second time, especially what with that trained brain.
There's so much in here it drives me crazy when people suggest "Carry On...," which is a good rocker, but nothing compared to this; and "Dust...," which I think is underwhelming and could've been done by any band. "Song.." isn't in the mentalities of most because most people's exposure to Kansas was via the radio. So thanks for doing this one. So much fun to have a composer listen to music!!! Cheers. :)
Great analysis and reaction as always! However, the Kansas song that you absolutely MUST do is MIRACLES OUT OF NOWHERE. I won't give away why, but you'll see....
EDIT: Always nice to see you get into the meaning behind the songs as well. You pretty much nailed it with this one. And yes, in time we shall arise to transcend what we currently are. Cheers!
Hint to Doug: 4-part polyphonic bridge in 7/8. 😍
@@JohnBrooking4 Dude, don't give it away!!!! - LOL
This is a great live DVD and the orchestral parts are enhancing and make a difference.
Koyaanisqatsi - the Hopi's saw it coming! Phil's drum mix on this is incredible, he's as good as ever! Thanks Doug!
reminds me of the Eagles tune, The Last Resort...in the meaning...one of the lines says, "call it paradise, kiss it goodbye"
Larry Baird is also the conductor who did the revived orchestral arrangements and conducting for the Moody Blues' Days of Future Passed.
I just remember being SO PROUD of Steve Walsh during this show.
He's my favorite vocalist of all-time
Hats down for the Masters!
That I-bV-VI progression was a staple of basement jams in the 70s, even before that song. Whole step power chords. 🤘
I mean bVI
I see a number of other comments below, and yes, this version is missing some key sections. Fantastic song.
They had a lineup like now other band had. Dual guitars, dual keyboards and violin. They could all solo on those instruments and layer them 5 deep, 6 if you count the bass. Kerry is a fantastic lyricist as well as a wonderful composer. Glad that you liked it Doug.
You said at the beginning that Kerry Livgren, the composer of this song, was playing keyboards and guitar on this, but I watched several times and did not see him in the video. He was such an integral part of this band no wonder they had to hire an orchestra...to replace his parts in the piece. By the way, I've watched several of your videos now and on the little opening ditty it sounds like their singing "The daily DOG." Ha ha.
This band was my introduction to live music. In the summer of 1979 my friend and I filed into his brothers van and drove to the Mann Music Center in Philadelphia. After many tokes of hashish we sauntered into he venue and I was mesmerized by sights and sounds that would transform me forever…. I was going to become a drummer in a rock band come hell or high water ✌️
From Kansas I’d recommend any of their long alongs from the debut album like Journey from Mariabronne or the last couple songs from the Masque album which initially were meant to go together.
Oh Doug! This is to me, a lifelong Kansas fanatic, the LEAST inspiring version of this song. Probably the original studio version is the best, when Steve's voice was still unmatched, and included a longer instrumental version. Love your channel! Do the studio version of Miracles out of Nowhere, you'll be floored.
Still enjoy the original the most from 1975's album of the same name:
ruclips.net/video/KHbkrHwy7I0/видео.html
Doug you've got to check out "All Over The World" which is on their "Masque" album. Great story and beautiful music, tremendous vocal and arrangement. Just shows the depth of Kansas. A very underrated band. Check it out.
It's All the World, not All Over the World. There was a typo on the CD release, I think it might have been, that had that wrong title.
I'm from Topeka KS and I've casually known Kerry Livgren for a long time. I was eating dinner with Kerry and his wife Vicci one time in the 1990's in a restaurant in Topeka and I asked Kerry about Two For the Show and Song for America --- if I remember right, that live album cut was from a live concert in Pittsburgh PA. What I don't know is if there's any other footage of that same show ---- there's a Pittsburgh PA live show video on YT but I don't think that's the same concert.
We will never be better than what we were.
This is the 2nd best Kansas song ever. Lamplight symphony is the most beautiful song ever written!