Betamax Hi-fi Stereo Mastering | Before DAT we used this or VHS Hi-fi

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  • Опубликовано: 1 янв 2025

Комментарии • 94

  • @ScottsSynthStuff
    @ScottsSynthStuff 14 дней назад +34

    The MPX filter was used for recording FM stereo broadcasts, which used a 19 KHz pilot tone to indicate the stereo subcarrier was present at 38 KHz (first harmonic of the pilot tone). The MPX (multiplex - used for multiplexing stereo channels into a single carrier) filter is just a 19 KHz notch filter. If you are not recording an FM stereo broadcast, the MPX filter should not be used. Also...the MPX filter filters the INCOMING audio, not the outgoing audio, so it has no function during playback.

  • @Z4NL
    @Z4NL 14 дней назад +10

    In the mid 80s we used a Betamax vcr with a Sony PCM unit for digital mastering. CD quality!

    • @angelusuxorem3771
      @angelusuxorem3771 13 дней назад +1

      @@Z4NL I still have one of those! Interestingly, you could choose either 14-bit or 16-bit recording (I think the 14-bit had more error correction), but both would record with pre-emphasis, where the high frequencies were boosted on record and attenuated on playback. When used with a VHS recorder with "HQ", the HQ circuitry could confuse the digital decoder, because it would repeat the previous line of video if there was a dropout (rather than just showing the dropout), which confused the error correction circuitry in the PCM adapter, leading to audible glitches. I haven't used mine in years, but I do have some tapes I recorded on it back in 1993 and 1994 that would be good to back up at some point, if I can get a VHS machine that will play them OK. I switched to DAT in late 1994.

  • @teknokont
    @teknokont 14 дней назад +13

    The real Espen Kraft is back 😃

  • @nickbirkby2521
    @nickbirkby2521 9 дней назад +2

    The Beta sounded very good! It is hard to find a VHS Hifi machine that has adjustable level sliders like the Beta machine, most of them have AGC auto gain control which isnt great.. I found a National VHS hifi machine with manual levels and I recorded some LPs- it was pretty much impossible to hear the difference between the source and the recording when A/B ing, -it was very impressive!

  • @maxandchloemeditation
    @maxandchloemeditation 13 дней назад +2

    Wow this brings back memories! I used to use the Toshiba Betamax. It was the only Betamax that does 4 channels of 44.1. (2 inputs are optical). Replaced it with a Sony dat later on. Love ur channel!

  • @AndersEngerJensen
    @AndersEngerJensen 14 дней назад +7

    1:22 "-You can't smell a picture.. "
    -I can! ;)

    • @lmoore3rd
      @lmoore3rd 14 дней назад +1

      Yes, like electric lettuce.

  • @GiorgioBertuccelli
    @GiorgioBertuccelli 13 дней назад +2

    I had that same exact beta max. This was my mastering deck throughout the mid 80s up until I found a gray market DAT recorder great stuff.

  • @MaggieKeizai
    @MaggieKeizai 14 дней назад +4

    Before he got a CD player, my dad scratched his audiophile itch by recording things to Hi-fi VHS.
    I later mixed down 4 track recordings to VHS. People thought I was crazy, just because it hadn't occurred to them to do so. Now that I've gone full circle back to that kind of workflow, I got another Hifi VHS recorder to go with my (now new and improved!) 8 tracks of cassette recording. It's fun!

  • @strangehermitage2299
    @strangehermitage2299 14 дней назад

    I was an 80s TDK tape kid but eventually discovered the warm saturated sound of 70s pop and disco was so much more rewarding sonically. Each to their own. Keep on.

  • @Infamous-s6d
    @Infamous-s6d 13 дней назад +1

    My first recordings where on VHS when I was learning, but somewhere out there and I don't remember the brand but there was a mixer in the late 80s early 90s there was a 24 track mixer that recorded each tracks to VHS individually so each track had there own VHS tapes insert, I always thought it's was a good idea because digitally there was no hi-fi, the only bad thing about tape if you wanted to re-record you would have to record white noise over the tape to drown out the previous noise on the tape, but all in well it was joy to me 👌

  • @intothedeep2683
    @intothedeep2683 12 дней назад

    Back in the late 80s, my brother and I had two Sony Betamax decks and we would bounce between them. Record to the first one with drum machine, a sequenced synth and a manually played synth all mixed together, then play it back while manually performing another synth layer. So, in one bounce I’d have (mixed) a drum machine and three synth parts. And the quality it top notch.

  • @EgoShredder
    @EgoShredder 14 дней назад +2

    That Sony looks and sounds fantastic. It's a keeper!

  • @johnpappas6497
    @johnpappas6497 14 дней назад +3

    Thanks for posting. I remember as a kid getting our VHS HiFi machine and renting Amadeus. Played through a stereo system it sounded far superior to non Hifi. Alas, I never recorded my own music on it. Used cassette for that. But I have fond memories of VHS HiFi sound 🥰

  •  14 дней назад +3

    Yes! I can smell the opening of this tape!

  • @steffenbrix
    @steffenbrix 13 дней назад +1

    I have about 10 good quality hifi VHS machines....3 of them are SVHS. I cleaned, oiled and did a belt change on 3 of them. Still trying to find time to fix the rest.
    Also I bought a PCM unit this summer that will record and play on the video track of any VHS via the composite cable. I guess it's kinda the same as what your VHS here can do 😊😊

    • @EspenKraft
      @EspenKraft  12 дней назад

      Hi-Fi audio on the VHS deck here is recorded by using the RCA L/R inputs. Composite is video only.

  • @neilbradley
    @neilbradley 14 дней назад +3

    Ah yes! I recall the Mitsubishi HiFi VHS as well! It did sound OK, but in retrospect it had a lot of compression, but we weren't concerned about loudness wars until years later.

    • @EspenKraft
      @EspenKraft  13 дней назад +2

      Yes, it was a consumer deck like the Akai in this video and as such it's not suited for audio mastering as the Beta deck here.

  • @maxperez1604
    @maxperez1604 14 дней назад +3

    I had that Sony betamax HiFi video. Impressive sound for that time.

  • @Soundwave_Collective
    @Soundwave_Collective 14 дней назад +1

    I used the Revox B77 reel tape for mastering for almost everything, until the digital era with DAT started. The Revox was a real workhorse, It just never failed.

  • @The7dioses
    @The7dioses 14 дней назад +3

    Both systems give the song a very nice tape saturation, specially in the snare.

    • @EspenKraft
      @EspenKraft  14 дней назад +4

      There is no tape saturation going on here, but the way audio is FM encoded has its own sound as I say in the video. ;-)

    • @The7dioses
      @The7dioses 14 дней назад

      @EspenKraft I thought I was listening to tape compression, which in return translates to tape saturation, that fizzling sound on the higher notes noticeable on higher notes and instruments with a fast attack wave, like snare drums, along with a "cohesive rounding effect" on the sound being fed to the tape.

    • @EspenKraft
      @EspenKraft  14 дней назад +2

      Although all Hi-Fi VCRs have a couple of static analog audio heads for compatibility with cheaper decks, the Hi-Fi tracks are recorded analog with FM technology so the sound's color aren't determined by recording "hot" as on a conventional analog tape deck. FM audio has its own sound and it does have a coloring that might be taken for conventional analog saturation I guess.

    • @The7dioses
      @The7dioses 14 дней назад +1

      @@EspenKraft Yes,it does seem to sound quite similar to mixdown to conventional 1/2 inch tape, whether the engineers that developed this technology had set their intentions that way, I have no clue, however it does meet the criteria in terms of what was accepted as pretty high quality recording at that time, and it certainly sounds great today as well.

    • @strangehermitage2299
      @strangehermitage2299 14 дней назад

      Subtle distortion, maybe. Certainly not saturation.

  • @PorchBass
    @PorchBass 14 дней назад +3

    My cousin had a Nicam stereo vhs and bounced his portastudio to it. Sounded good to me

  • @DaveZula
    @DaveZula 14 дней назад +2

    The Betamax quality really surprised me. Also I really like your song. ✌️

  • @Megalocade
    @Megalocade 14 дней назад +1

    Vhs hifi was pretty decent, I still have a Panasonic hifi VHS within my 80s / 90s Sony separates hifi equipment, it's a great little machine from 1990 has separate L & R record level sliders, and audio only switch, Mpx filter, index marking for selecting tracks and large VU meters, 3.5mm headphone and mic jacks.I have a bunch of 240h tapes that have 8 hours of music on in lp that I listen to regularly, considering I recorded these back in the 90s they still sound absolutely fine, also my old and rare vinyl records have gone down to VHS hifi too.

  • @oscarvanderburgh9915
    @oscarvanderburgh9915 14 дней назад +2

    The betamax sounds the best of the 3. It softens the instruments while keeping the drums punchy. Even punchier than the master. The VHS rounds off everything by filtering highs and limiting it seems… wow. Nice

  • @nicmcv6925
    @nicmcv6925 14 дней назад +2

    Beta sounds incredible

  • @Pepijn_a.k.a._Akikaze
    @Pepijn_a.k.a._Akikaze 14 дней назад +2

    I understand why you love video tape as a sound carrier. I recorded the musical soundtrack to my Indonsesia holiday video onto hifi stereo VHS tape in 1995 and it sounded superb. Before that I coudn't afford a hifi stereo VHS VCR so I mastered my first two albums onto cassette tape. By 1991, I had switched to DAT, borrowed from my label manager. Who still uses DAT nowadays?

  • @frankgecko72
    @frankgecko72 3 дня назад

    Excellent video, very informative.

    • @EspenKraft
      @EspenKraft  3 дня назад

      Cheers!

    • @frankgecko72
      @frankgecko72 2 дня назад

      @@EspenKraft Happy New Year 2025.
      maintenance tips for tape transport
      Sowing Machine Oil. and Dow Corning Molykote Lubricant

  • @steffenbrix
    @steffenbrix 14 дней назад +1

    Awesome music Esben!! And I love tape tech ❤

  • @PorchBass
    @PorchBass 14 дней назад +1

    Slap tastic! ❤ Love the lower fidelity of vhs too, very nostalgic

  • @jips123
    @jips123 14 дней назад +1

    I had very good results to master to minidisc. Even if it is a bit lossy. Even people today say it sounds good, that is, warm and together. I also used VHS Hifi, that is audio only, that sounded great also.

  • @McTroyd
    @McTroyd 14 дней назад +1

    I vaguely recall that auto-tracking VCRs used the video signal to determine the tracking. It may be necessary to hook something up to the video input (signal generator, C64, whatever creates composite video) just so it has something to lock onto while the audio records, so the tracking doesn't duck the audio again. That said, this is the first time I've ever seen a Betamax machine used -- the battle had been won by VHS by the time I came around. Incredible machine! 👍

  • @strangehermitage2299
    @strangehermitage2299 14 дней назад +1

    Because digital tape and early A/D converters sounded so much better than analogue tape in the 80s.
    One format was at its peak; the other in its infancy.

    • @EspenKraft
      @EspenKraft  13 дней назад +1

      This isn't digital audio at all. Nor is it conventional analog audio. It's FM encoded audio.

    • @strangehermitage2299
      @strangehermitage2299 13 дней назад +1

      You're correct. I retract. Forgive my ignorance.

    • @strangehermitage2299
      @strangehermitage2299 12 дней назад

      You're Espen Kraft and I'm likely younger than you. 49 - I should know better.

  • @goranvuletic8873
    @goranvuletic8873 14 дней назад +1

    30 years ago, when my hearing was young and very precise, I couldn't hear ANY difference between the original and the recording on a VHS hi-fi. I also had a Sony DAT, and even though it was an excellent device, I could hear a subtle difference.

  • @TecladistadoYoutubeRivaLima
    @TecladistadoYoutubeRivaLima 14 дней назад +2

    I used to play with some guys and we would record the backing tracks on a hi-fi video cassette recorder to play live... the audio quality was impeccable

    • @LoveinScarcity
      @LoveinScarcity 14 дней назад +1

      I’ve done this as well. Also used to bounce tracks between two machines to build up songs back in the early 90’s. Worked but no undo haha.

    • @manifestresults
      @manifestresults 14 дней назад +2

      @@LoveinScarcity I used to do this too, but *with* undo - the tapes were so long you could do each dub further down the tape. Easy to go back a step or two if you needed to!!

    • @tonttu303
      @tonttu303 14 дней назад

      Djs on the fin-swe ferriess used svhs as a mixtape player during daytime.

  • @paradoxstate5018
    @paradoxstate5018 14 дней назад +3

    when you were opening it I was just thinking, I remember the smell of opening a new tape, then you said it !!!!!!!! 😂😂😂😂 Theres a chap on RUclips who bounces tracks using VHS, well he did I don't know if he still does, and to be honest until I saw him doing it, it never occurred to me, I had a DAT in the late 80's, but I also had a minidisc as a standby as well.

  • @garyhoffman1
    @garyhoffman1 14 дней назад +2

    Ha! Du og jeg er sikkert like gammel. Er Amerikaner som bor i Nordland og har VHS hifi, DAT, og mange av det samme synther som du har. You make me feel old! 😅

    • @EspenKraft
      @EspenKraft  14 дней назад +1

      Vi ER gamle. ;-)

    • @jairkerker2821
      @jairkerker2821 13 дней назад

      ​@@EspenKraft I prefer it over death, hogging a family chair for a month.

  • @oscarvanderburgh9915
    @oscarvanderburgh9915 14 дней назад +1

    I also love this track.. that fm bass 🫠

  • @danm3570
    @danm3570 14 дней назад +1

    dude, relating to the beta tape i watched the first star wars movie on a beta video at my dads house. It kind of also became really cool because beta became extinct mostly, and it was a unique memory for a kid from the time

  • @atmobeat
    @atmobeat 14 дней назад

    Same with me: I also bought a DAT Recorder in 1992. My Yamaha DTR-2 was categorised as "semi-professional", mainly because of the 19" mounting angles.
    Oh and indeed, this vintage gear smelt absolutely lovely on unboxing when brandnew 🙂

  • @VickersDoorter
    @VickersDoorter 11 дней назад

    Back in the mid-1980s our theatre sound comapny (Paul Farrah Sound - Kingston-upon-Thames) had a Sony PCM-F1 and Betamax recording rig. I used to do location recording for audio effects and to record theatre rehearsals in London. It was a superb combination - so easy and portable compared to the Revox B77 etc. On one occasion I was late to a theatre recording (due to a road crash) with the notable playwright, Harold Pinter, bollocked me in front of the entire show cast and told me to eff-off!

  • @Cream2773
    @Cream2773 14 дней назад

    Sometimes just looking around for a Beta Hifi Recorder... THIS Sony is my favourite since I've seen Lukhash with code veronica. It's not only the charme and analog quality but also a real connection to my past. As in my childhood, we have had a Universum Beta Color VTR 10300 mono and for me, writing and arranging songs is also a process connected with real experiences and memories

  • @jamiea6723
    @jamiea6723 14 дней назад +3

    Sounds amazing, love the compression. The S Video was too pumped sounding. BetaMax blows it away.

    • @Mikey_Dee
      @Mikey_Dee 14 дней назад +2

      To be fair to VHS though, the pumped sound here is mainly because it's a basic consumer deck with ALC and limiting. There were much better decks for VHS HiFI audio work, but they are expensive to buy now. Panasonic had quite a few superb machines. Even so, I think that the Akai still held up quite well considering what it is and what it was up against!!

  • @JohnHallberg-v4o
    @JohnHallberg-v4o 14 дней назад

    The Master is back

  • @normalizedaudio2481
    @normalizedaudio2481 14 дней назад +1

    This sounded very good. Beta was very, very good. I did Beta and it was good. You would be surprised about it.

  • @govorit_i_pokazivaet
    @govorit_i_pokazivaet 14 дней назад +3

    Sony sounds 80s, Akai does 90s.
    Conclusion: each part of the song deserve different fx, within common mastering.

  • @skilgannon1971
    @skilgannon1971 5 дней назад

    I always thought my Betamax (Nokia machine) was always higher quality than my friend's VHS machines. That aside it took a lot of back and forth listening to hear much of a difference between the two but the most stand out thing for me was the drop in Base frequencies / volume when the track moved to VHS. Other than that my old ears couldn't pick up much else.

  • @JohnHallberg-v4o
    @JohnHallberg-v4o 13 дней назад

    Espen Kraft thank you

  • @80ssynthfan48
    @80ssynthfan48 14 дней назад +1

    I get the sense that Sony would have traded all their hipness for Betamax being more successful for a longer period.....

    • @EspenKraft
      @EspenKraft  13 дней назад +1

      When they persisted in keeping their Beta-tech to themselves they reaped the outcome. ;-)

  • @dominikkarkowski
    @dominikkarkowski 14 дней назад

    awesome song again.....

  • @morespaces9061
    @morespaces9061 12 дней назад +1

    Bought my Betamax Sony in 1983 after visiting england in 82/83. Could not understand back then why vhs succeeded it shure wasn't the soundquality!!

  • @jairkerker2821
    @jairkerker2821 13 дней назад +1

    Hi Mr. Kraft,
    this system sounds amazingly good.
    About the intro sequence; was that all done in the box or did you use a Panscan for the panning effect?
    Sounds a bit like when the source is panning left, its delay moves to the right?

    • @EspenKraft
      @EspenKraft  13 дней назад +1

      The intro panning effect is done with a Eventide H3000 plugin in the DAW. I could have used the Panscan though. Faster to do in the DAW though.

  • @j8577798yt
    @j8577798yt 13 дней назад

    What a great video !!!
    Where the h~ll did you manage to get your hands on a fully functioning video like that ????
    Amazing !!!

    • @EspenKraft
      @EspenKraft  12 дней назад

      I know a lot of people. Cheers :)

  • @tobitweaks
    @tobitweaks 14 дней назад

    Nice! Why did it sound cooler with the mpx filter on? More lo-fi? Cool demo! Great piece of music

  • @kropjesla01
    @kropjesla01 11 дней назад

    I don't think I can hear any difference in the back-to back comparison. the VHS might be a bit muddier in the lows, but maybe i'm just imagining that?

  • @KidMrRemixes
    @KidMrRemixes 14 дней назад

    Cool t-shirt. Just got my new Retro Spectrum. Is it available in Norway? Off topic I know, but I just wondered.

    • @EspenKraft
      @EspenKraft  14 дней назад

      Thanks! It is. I know a couple of guys who bought it.

  • @cubdukat
    @cubdukat 14 дней назад

    Did Beta Hi-Fi have the same head chatter issues that VHS Hi-Fi? I would put all of my old cassette mixtapes on VHS Hi-Fi as backup, but I stopped doing it because of the head chatter problems.
    ("Head Chatter," or switching noise, can be heard as a low-level distortion. It's hard to describe, but once you hear it, you'll know what it is...)

    • @EspenKraft
      @EspenKraft  14 дней назад

      Beta Hi-Fi and VHS Hi-Fi audio are recorded very differently actually and not comparable technically at all.

    • @ScottsSynthStuff
      @ScottsSynthStuff 13 дней назад

      @@EspenKraft but both systems used the rotary heads for laying down the audio carriers, and both systems did in fact actually suffer from head switching noise as a result if they weren't working perfectly. That's what he was asking.

  • @PaulEubanks
    @PaulEubanks 12 дней назад

    Even though the VHS and Betamax roll off the very top end to some degree, is there also a saturation happening at the upper mid frequencies just before the roll-off? It sounds almost like a low pass filter, but with a slight resonance bump in the upper mid frequencies on the tapes. Is this psychoacoustic, or is this real and measurable?

    • @EspenKraft
      @EspenKraft  12 дней назад

      FM audio has its own sound as I mention in the video and I happen to love that particular sound. ;-)

  • @klinkske
    @klinkske 14 дней назад

    Dad had a 6 head hifi JVC VCR he binned. It had a lot of knobs and functions, wish i asked for it before it was lost. I had a jog dial, multiple speeds etc. Does DAT have any more purpose today, @Espen ?

    • @EspenKraft
      @EspenKraft  13 дней назад +1

      You should have kept that. Many people still use DAT. I have lots of DAT tapes and I should get me another DAT deck and look through them and see what I can find. Besides that I have no desire to use them again.

  • @FaebopLive
    @FaebopLive 14 дней назад

    The Betamax medium was definitely the least pleasing to my ears. It's sounded like there was a distinct amount audio information missing, making it souind weak. The digital master should and obviously was the cleanest but the VHS master was definitely the most audibly pleasing to listen to. It gelled the parts better, smoothed off the high end better than the digital and betamax.

    • @Abruzzo333
      @Abruzzo333 14 дней назад +1

      Beta is always higher quality than VHS if the everything is working correctly....as this video clearly demonstrates. There are noticeable dropouts on the VHS.

  • @michaels8597
    @michaels8597 13 дней назад

    I STILL have my SVHS set up..LOVED IT... I love the amount of crybaby whiny babies that make crybaby content when they do not agree,like with the synth SCAM video..Hilarious.