VCR vs. Reel to Reel for Recording Music | Can you tell the difference?
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- well... it's crazy to think, it's crazy to say, but according to GenXers most VCRs actually are capable of extremely hi-fi stereo recordings. here we show why that might be useful.
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• Hi-Fi VHS - The "Poor ...
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Hey y'all! I'm first and foremost a musician, but I try to present technical information as accurately as possible without over-extending my knowledge. In other words, I don't like bulls**ting. If you're interested in the technical aspects of VHS audio, this article clears up older versions of VHS vs. Hi-Fi stereo VHS (my machine):
www.broadcaststore.com/pdf/model/793700/TT190%20-%204626.pdf
✌️📼🎼
Hey y'all again! There has been a lot of back and forth in the comments section of this video and confusion about an older format of VHS sound and the embedded hifi audio that became standard and commonplace by the time I was a little kid.
Luckily for me, my video stands correct when it comes to the spinning head utilizing audio heads as well. This excerpt comes from a forensic science article from 2006...you know, people who have to study tapes as evidence in criminal cases:
"The hi-fi, or frequency-modulation (FM), audio stereo heads are located on the helical-scan drum, often 60 degrees out of phase with the video heads. The hi-fi audio is recorded during the 0.0334-second time period just prior to, but in the same tape location as, the corresponding video information. To allow differentiation of the audio and video signals and to avoid complete erasure of the audio track by the subsequent overlying video track, the signals have different azimuth angles and track widths and record at different tape depths. The video head partially erases the hi-fi audio, usually dropping its amplitude about 12 decibels (dB). The two channels of stereo audio are recorded with different FM carrier frequencies for better record and playback characteristics. Because of the recording methods, the signal-to-noise ratio, frequency response, and other specifications are always better for hi-fi than linear audio. Hi-fi audio quality is virtually the same at both SP and EP speeds; however, not all VCRs have hi-fi audio capability (Beeching 2001; IEC 1999; Trundle 1999)."
www.experts.com/articles/video-and-audio-characteristics-in-vhs-overrecordings-by-bruce-e-koenig
or if you wanna watch a rad video from 1984, check out this one-minute gem:
ruclips.net/video/IF_rTTptah0/видео.html
Talk about shitty and unwatchable editing. But even without that, it's direct ripoff of Cassette Comeback's video, "Hi-Fi VHS - The Poor Man's Reel To Reel". Stealing content because you don't have the imagination to create your own.
ruclips.net/video/lunkqR2lDag/видео.html
@@guessundheit6494 Hi Guess! I appreciate your feedback and the time you took to watch and comment here.
I love that video you posted and that content creator Cassette Comeback...
...so much that I had put a link to it in the description already. Let me know if you're ever interested in beginning to create content on your channel and I'd love to talk about imagination, originality and producing.
Of course, you may have another channel that i'm not aware of! Peace, and have a beautiful day 🙏✌️
Hi, I've got a question. What was your gain staging or process for recording into VHS? I have the same VCR as the one in your video but my signal is way to high and clips and distorts, even with the master volume at really low on DAW.
I'm wondering how you got yours to sound so normal.
it still surprises me of the production quality of this channel even with only 500 subscribers. I look forward to watching every episode that comes out. Keep it up mate.
appreciate the kind words! i’m looking forward to building a community 🤘
@@MadeOnTapeYou already have a community !
i am truly humbled and totally forgot this video was made with about 500 subscribers...i'm always learning and hope that sharing/showing that process is helpful@@DarkTrapStudio
@@MadeOnTape500 subscriber is a big community, it just depend on the quality :) The comparaison was great thanks
What he forgot to mention was the COST. Not only are VCR dirt cheap (especially compared to a good reel-to-reel) but the tape cost is miniscule. And, because of the helical recording system, the VCR tape speed has no bearing on sound quality. Meaning for about $20 you can get 6-8 HOURS of recording tape. Try that with reel to reel.
Hi. what want for 1 to 1 quality on VHS !
1. Need PAL or NTSC This is the Best Choice with 4.43 because on NTSC recording take more tape space for audio recording and Les for Video signal Then on Pal ,Left channel is 1.3Mhz Right Channel 1.7Mhz!
2. Need VHS with Long play (LP On PAL OR on NTSC Extended Play EP or (SLP)) Because on this mode lowered video quality but again take more space for AUDIO on tape !
3.HI-FI NICAM because minimum need on drum 2 Long play Head ,2 Standard Quality play Head !
4.Black signal generator on VHS calling this button (SIMUL) Or ( Test signal) on BACK This generate Black video signal ,need for tracking stable simulation because VHS tracking system looking this information for synchronization ! When not synchronize tracking system non stop looking and make on recording noises clicking like scratching noises !
ON VHS Without Black Screen Generation Need give in black screen video signal from another device get same results !
5.For best result need check some VHS Without Recording Level adjustment gives the best recordings when input 5 volts but on 0.5-0.7V results poor !
6. Example devices Panasonic NV-F125( NV-HD100AM) ,NV-F75,NV-F65,NV-FS 200 HQ, The best Choice NV-W1!
7. At last For the BEST QUALITY HI-FI Audio on VHS Need Recording ON NTSC ,4.43 ,EP or SLP ON PAL, LP , Black screen Video input or Black screen Generation, Don't forget about input Voltage!
When doo like that on the result getting Quality best then any professional Reel To Reel And DAT is well plenty models not giving that results !
Analog sound is the best ! :-)
I personally knew about that, VHS is high availability, small, compact, can be extremely great if properly used. The question is about the AC-IN. AC transformer is the major problem of VHS recorder.
@@andodigital1 There's a lot of jargon dropping there but most of it is entirely irrelevant. The DMX (Depth Multiplex) system doesn't care about the video format and many VCRs don't need a video signal to lock on to a Hi-Fi Audio track. Admittedly some cheap ones have trouble as do the high end ones with TBC. But it's not true that an NTSC machine gives better Hi-Fi audio than a PAL one, and it doesn't matter if the recording is SP, LP or EP. Most European users would use LP mode for economy and because very few PAL decks have an EP mode.
Many times when using these vcrs to record it's good to have the video hooked up to something like a small tv. This may help reduce hum and noise by not leaving that jack open.
Also, yes, you need to pump the levels. VCRs have awesome compression and can handle a lot of gain. This is important when recording with vcr.
excellent advice! definitely more exploration of the VCR down the road. thanks for watching 🙏
What could be used best to pump up the levels? Any advice in type of device or model or brand?
@WillemdaGuide I only mean that your gain. What ever you are using (mixer or amp) to bring sound into the vcr. The vcr has its own compression and is really good and handling some amount of gain.
@@SirMillz thanks for your reply, I can pump the output level of my 8 track casette but might it be worth to put an pre-amp in between, or maybe an eq? Just thinking up loud. Thanks again!
@WillemdaGuide sure, a preamp will work. You can always experiment with it until you get the desired sound you are looking for. I do recommend hooking coaxial video up to something like a small TV, which should help reduce noise.
One reason you want to go in with a lot of gain is to reduce that sound to noise ration. But, you probably know this. It's recording science 101.
Oh my gosh I just found my favourite RUclips channel in the WORLD
that means a lot thank you!
The VHS has a surprisingly tasteful low end bump.
This is unbelievable content…searching for the tape answers and came across it…thank you…
…BTW…um, am I the only one that thought the VCR sounded the best?…
Same here…I actually hear more hiss coming from the TEAC!?
thanks again George!
Back in the early 90s, in what I now call "The Dark Years". I used to work at Radio Shack. And back then they still sold RtR, DAT, and DCC. But by far, the most popular recording media for garage bands and hobbyist musicians, was Hi-Fi Stereo VHS. You did have to have a pure audio source though. The recording quality was so good, that there was no noise reduction built in.
thanks for sharing!
Not so. VHS HiFi uses a system very similar to DBX. It's just "on" all the time, and not "advertised" to the consumer. There's no need for anyone (except an engineer) to know what's going on inside the machine.
@@njm1971nyc I don't think so. I think you're getting confused with the term DMPX which simply means Depth Multiplex, which refers to the deeper magnetic footprint that the audio signal occupies on the tape in relation to the video signal which non-destructively gets recorded over the top.
@@mbvideoselection umm, nope. 🤷♂️ Nothing to do with it being depth multiplexed. I remember a very boring talk with my slightly creepy boss at Technicolor Videocassette (when I was a "cute teenager" and he was a suspiciously single older man, hahaha, if you know what I mean!) anyway, he was singing the praises of LINEAR audio (seriously!) and slagging-off HiFi audio (or HD, High Dynamic, as Panasonic called it in the early days), because of its rather extreme DBX-style companding system. I still remember the graphs he showed me to illustrate his point. To be fair (to him), the linear audio of the JVC BR-7000 Duplicators was very good, but consumer VHS decks pretty much all had horrible linear audio heads/circuitry, so his point was rather moot. Copying/pasting this next paragraph, for the sake of speed...
"VHS-Hi-Fi system inherently uses a decilinear companding system that is nearly identical to dbx in function and operation. The companding is an integral part of the Hi-Fi spec, it cannot be disabled or avoided, and is in every VHS Hi-Fi recorder."
I think the VCR sounded best - no question about it to my ears. The flattest (lifeless - not frequency response) was direct into the computer. The reel-to-reel came in at a close second. Great video! Subbed your channel. 😎👍
thanks for watching listening, and subbing! let me know if there’s anything you’d like to see down the road! 🤘✌️
Just found your channel, great stuff, I’m sure you’ll be growing quickly.
One suggestion I’d make on A/B’ing sources for comparison - don’t make the cuts on beat, make them at completely random intervals. I find the differences are easier to hear that way on videos like this, maybe that’s just me though.. I realize it’s more of a pain when lining up different mixdowns coming from a cassette deck, but I think it’s worth it.
that’s a great suggestion! i think my type-a nature is why i put the change on downbeats. honestly the way i do it, it would be just as easy to make random. Thanks for checking it out!
When we played live, I would record all the audio off the board into a VHS tape. 2 hours of audio on one tape! The frequency response of a HiFi VCR, is really good!
I have so much love for this channel! I'm gonna dig out the vhs tomorrow haha
thanks for being a part of a budding community! 🙏
Great point. I'm an Xer that has to work at a PC most of the day. Love my DAW but am very interested in getting "off the grid" and using a VHS would make perfect sense in conjunction with an analog 4-track recorder. I want to get back to pure creativity that doesn't involve a mouse or keyboard. Thanks for the idea and inspiration! Keep up the great videos.
thanks for watching and listening!
"That thing has value to weird musicians!" ROFL!!!
🙏🏻🙌🏻😂
Different VCR’s can give you different results, but one thing to look for when doing this is changing from SP to EP tape speeds. It’s a little counter-intuitive, but most folks find that recording at the slower speed results in the same audio quality (and also may remove the hiss 🤓). Awesome video - maybe do a follow-up at some point! I’ve done stereo mixes with almost no audible hiss from a DAW. Cheers!
that is counter intuitive! i was planning on exploring EP vs SP, and some other follow ups... thanks for engaging!
@@MadeOnTape, I did some recording on VHS back in the 80s. I recorded a CD onto videotape at the slowest speed. Playing both back and switching between the two, I couldn't hear any difference. You can get 6 hours of better than reel-to-reel quality on a VHS tape.
Its actually pretty simple. MOST of the tape/head speed comes from the spinning head, not the tape moving. Video was severely affected, but audio, not so much!
There is no audio quality different between SP and EP when it comes to HiFi VCRs. It's a PCM audio track encoded. The only difference comes to physical quality and deteriation of the VHS tape itself. If it's degraded in certain areas, the HiFi track could drop out resulting in spots that send the VCR back to playing the linear mono audio track. And that's where quality matters the most. When recording linear/mono track, there's a huge difference between SP and EP.
Fun fact, if you have a VCR that has the "Audio Dub" feature, you can actually overwrite just the linear audio track. This is how radio stations saved money on tapes on LP (mid range speed) with 160 minute tapes recorded in LP.
First, play two shows at the same on separte channels.
HiFi Lch = Show 1
HiFi Rch = Show 2
then re-record on same VHS tape using 'audio dub' feature only to record over:
Linear Audio Mono = Show 3
all on a single tape lol -- RECing on any HiFi Stereo VCR will always record the HiFi and Linear tracks. But Audio Dub is a VCR editing feature that lets you overwrite just the Linear track. We learned this when editing wedding videos for clients when they would take their master tape home and only hear the original edits/raw audio...telling them to set their HiFi VCRs to mono or to watch a copy of the tape we provided that was mono only.
VHS HiFi was very good for stereo and you can make a 6 hour party tape. Some JVC models had an improved system to get rid of head switching noise and those are the best ones for music. If there had been more development it could have been developed into the best analog recorder ever. I wish someone had done a format where all the heads were used for audio with no video track to maximize audio quality.
that would be very cool! I need to find some skilled machinists 😂 thanks for watching 🙏
Any advice on those JVC models, types?
@@WillemdaGuide The JVC HR-S7800U for sure but any of the later ones should have the anti head switching noise thing.
I honestly wasn't paying attention to this week's listening quiz, just digging the music. The VCR did, though, have a bit more top end to my ears.
thanks Josh! more new music coming
I recorded the a hip hop album on a HiFi JVC vcr back in 1998. That vcr had an independent audio recording function that allowed you to adjust the input recording gain. IMO nothing sounded better than the warmth of that vcr analog tape. Was able to reduce the hiss because of the independent audio gain function that vcr unit had. At the time my four track unit had stopped working and we did live takes of all the songs for the album. A Shure sm-58 through outboard compressor and slight reverb and the tracks straight through an Ensoniq ASR-10. All ran through a Yamaha 12 channel board right into the vcr. When you're a broke producer/engineer you get creative. Came out great.
amazing! thanks for sharing! i think i would still be interested in a VCr that has independent audio 🤔
Do you remember what model it was?
The analogue warmth was imagined. It's not recorded onto tape like an audio tape. It's non-linear FM.
I've gotten excellent results from a Panasonic Omnivision Hi-Fi VCR.
Enjoyed your vid, and thought I would share my experiences with this largely unknown VCR "Hi-Fi" audio capability.
I used HI-FI vcr's for video dj work back in the 80's. At that time, Music video audio was terrible, so I would put together versions with decent audio quality myself.
After capturing a good quality video source, I would use this to record a 2nd generation video source syncing it alongside audio sourced from a CD or Vinyl and record it onto a Hi-Fi VCR.
I would then have a CD quality music vid to use on a pretty serious dj set up, video projector and big screen. This was hard or very exspensive to achieve in the 80's and even into the late 90's.
A few have made comments around the audio being linear and not helical scan. While its true there has always been a linear audio path and some even marketed a "Stereo VCR" which in reality just split the mono linear portion of the tape and used half the track for left and half for right, the sound might be stereo, but still garbage.
These are NOT the Hi-Fi vcr's which this youTube vid is refering to, and yeah, they probably do belong in a recycle bin.
For it to be useful at recording and playing back decent quality audio, there needs to be the words or a symbol "Hi-Fi" printed on the facia or tape loading flap or somewhere on the front.
"Hi-Fi" identifies it as having the helical scan audio function and from my experience, if you want to get the best out of one of these, choose one with audio record level controls.
The short falls as already commented on by others are real, being head switching distortion and pumping.
Some manufacturers offered better quality more expensive machines, or specifically targeted the audio function rather than just improved sound for a video soundtrack.
They spent more time and R&D minimising or working around these issues. Most people wont notice or care, but if your a critical audio listner and / or have a decent sound system, you will.
That said, they were and are a very cheap method of bulk recording at great quality. (outside the digital realm)
The first hifi vcr's were quite a bit more exspensive than a standard vcr with the pick of the domestic units being the JVC HR-D725.
Very well built unit with excellent picture quality, minimal head switching distortion, manual level controls and great functionality.
While I lusted after one of these, at the time it was just too exspensive, but I found the NEC 895 to be a badge job copy of the JVC for a lot less $ so ended up with the same that I could afford.
I bought or hired quite a few makes and models over the years using a number of them for DJ work and music for parties etc.
The other quality machine of mention would be most of the Panasonic models and a couple of the high end Mitsubishi's... If its an SVHS and a high end model even better.
A lot of the cheaper units I trialled did have the head switching distortion issues, and definately the pumping issue were there was an auto gain control (AGC) used instead of Level control.
One other comment I'd make, being as the helical scanned Hi-Fi audio layer is below the helical scanned video layer, better quality tape will allow the recording to last better as far as dropp outs. It's true you can use any tape and get similar results if the tape is sound, but being a magnetic tape it will suffer degradation over time and more so with el-cheapo formulas
Hope someone finds this interesting or useful.
Cheers !
I found this very interesting and useful! thank you for sharing your thoughtful experience!
Holy shit that was all very useful and interesting AF. Thank you. I am stumbling across this looking for a secret way into getting into tape but doing something different that still sounds great. I feel like the VCR sounds the best in this video and I have always loved the sound of VHS tapes I do not know why, I think I may go this route, any thoughts for me?
BTW, I’m trying to understand something here. It seems to me that the difference in sound quality should have been greater, seeing as how the TEAC is producing a Lofi signal while the VCR is Hifi. Can someone explain this to me?
I just found your channel and I’m absolutely hooked
that’s very kind of you thank you. let me know if there’s any topic you’d like to see covered on the channel!
When CDs first came out in the 80’s i did some work for the Hard Rock Cafe and they opted to use HiFI VHS for their house music instead of a mega CD changer. The sound quality was superior to CDs and rivaled 15ips Reel to Reel audio quality. We used them to mix on.
thanks for sharing Scott! seemed like a great way to get a good amount of BGM
How did you mix on VHS? As far as I can tell you can have two individual tracks max on VHS due to it being a stereo format but that’s it I’d think.
@@nathanstein589 mixing down to a stereo master is what he means. We did it live with my band straight to vhs.
Hey, man.
This is a great channel!
hey thank you so much! 🙏🤘
Cool video. FYI, the helical scan only applies to video. The audio track is recorded / played back linearly with different heads.
I stand corrected - I read your pinned comment. I didn't know there was a difference between linear stereo and hifi stereo on VHS. Thanks - and again, great video!
I've just discovered your channel over the last few weeks - amazing videos and good tunes too! 🙏
thanks for tuning in and listening! i like your name “serious things tomorrow”
@@MadeOnTape Thanks man! I make music under this name too - my Portastudio 414mkII is heavily involved!
nice! i’ll have to check it out!
youre a fuckin rockstar bro i never even thought of using it.. the sound quality must be great.. still havent finished the video.. but i had to give my praise to your genius im definitely tyring this.. in this city most people sell them to second hand shops where they restore old machines all day
they can be hit or miss, but luckily they’re usually quite inexpensive!
This is great! I was just about to throw out an old vcr. Glad I saw this
you were about to send it to Radio Shack heaven
Holy crap this video is straight out of the 80's man... and provides useful info with style?! Subscribed!
I'm actually about to demagnetize my Akai X-165D's heads in preparation to make a mixtape from my Technics SL-1200 MK6 (Japanese model).
thank you for the nice words and have fun with that Akai!!! 🙏
Man! The last video I commented on hooked me with that same tape deck I have, but serendipity lead me to this one after I just sorted through tons of older high end VCR recording and mixing equipment I almost just got rid of. Thanks for the new inspiration.
there’s almost always a way to utilize old stuff! Sylvia Massy is a big inspiration for me in that department. thanks for checking out the channel 🤘
"I don't want to get into the physics of this. I'm not a physician..." Oh god, I'm stealing this.
take it! thanks for watching 🙏
Me and the guitarist in my band always used a VHS hifi - VCR in the 90´s for recording masters of our 4 track demo-mixes. Still sounds fine today.
thanks for sharing! 🙏🤘🤘🤘🙏
We did too!🤘
This is awesome . I have been walking by one of these everyday at my parents place and just stumbled across your video. Love your channel
ah thank you! you can have fun with it, and I'm sure i'll make more VCR videos down the road.
The VCR most likely has auto gain control (AGC) which is why you hear more hiss, since it’s pumping up the gain on the lower levels. If you added more gain ahead of the VCR, like you suggested in the video, that would just effectively compress your recording.
yes! thank you for sharing!
Older video recorders also had level adjustment for audio. I have a working,, although ancient recorder that also, when a number of tracks were recorded on it, you could search them using the blank space between them...
I was born in 2000. I just plugged our VHS player into a TV because my grandma wanted to rewatch my parents' wedding. The sorry zoomers part hurts so bad:"D (btw I think you got a new sub)
ahhaha i adore my zoomer friends and will be the first to go to bat for them but still gotta take jabs here and there. Thanks for watching and hope the wedding was cool! 🤘
@@MadeOnTape oh yeah, it was cool as heck, people in 1998 were different😁
And labels still release stuff on VHS, like me.
You may want to use a VCR with a manual volume control, like the Panasonic NV-F65HQ, that was literally made for audio, it doesn't even do video in LP mode.
i've got an ebay search saved for one of these! Definitely looking for more control in the audio recording. thanks for the tip and watching!
@@MadeOnTape If you want a better pro equipment, then there are such devices as JVC ERA, or something form Sony's pro line, I have a DVCAM deck from the latter.
Excellent video! I'm really impressed by the quality of the production! Just one thing, though.
VHS was always called "Video Home System," even as far back as its invention in 1976. The "Vertical Helical Scan" connotation is somewhat false. VHS home recording wasn't exactly vertical (the heads of a VHS VCR run at an angle, and as a result isn't vertical), and while VHS VCR's did record video helically, the patents of this form of tape recording belong to Ampex (back in 1961). JVC would have had to pay Ampex royalties to use that name as a result. There are articles from Popular Science in November of 1977 that debunks the use of the "Vertical Helical Scan" name.
That's just me being an OCD internet pedant though. This video was really good and informative otherwise. Keep up the excellent work!
yes! since publishing this video i learned that i was perpetuating a myth! if youtube let me cut in an edit i would have 😂
thanks for the kind words and insight 🙏
The audio on a "Hi-Fi" VHS is also recorded helically, not just the video. Hi-Fi VHS recorded an FM carrier along with the video. The audio was carried within the FM carrier.
I use JVC S-VHS to transfer old HI-FI tapes I made when I DJed back in the 1990s on HI-FI RCA decks. JVCs tend to have great sound and PICTURE as well. I started doing mixdowns HI-FI VHS From my TEAC 3340 tracks I was updating from 1978-1983. Then Computers hit in the 2000s and the better sound cards were hard to get and pricey. But the demos got did. HI-FI VHS was great except if you get the annoying HEAD SWITCHING NOISE. Around 100hz it's a low buzz. I'm sure there's a video somewhere on how to deal with it.
Glad you see you caught on.
love this advice! Also, as a born-and-raised Michigander, I appreciate you being here!
Hi. what want for 1 to 1 quality on VHS !
1. Need PAL or NTSC This is the Best Choice with 4.43 because on NTSC recording take more tape space for audio recording and Les for Video signal Then on Pal ,Left channel is 1.3Mhz Right Channel 1.7Mhz!
2. Need VHS with Long play (LP On PAL OR on NTSC Extended Play EP or (SLP)) Because on this mode lowered video quality but again take more space for AUDIO on tape !
3.HI-FI NICAM because minimum need on drum 2 Long play Head ,2 Standard Quality play Head !
4.Black signal generator on VHS calling this button (SIMUL) Or ( Test signal) on BACK This generate Black video signal ,need for tracking stable simulation because VHS tracking system looking this information for synchronization ! When not synchronize tracking system non stop looking and make on recording noises clicking like scratching noises !
ON VHS Without Black Screen Generation Need give in black screen video signal from another device get same results !
5.For best result need check some VHS Without Recording Level adjustment gives the best recordings when input 5 volts but on 0.5-0.7V results poor !
6. Example devices Panasonic NV-F125( NV-HD100AM) ,NV-F75,NV-F65,NV-FS 200 HQ, The best Choice NV-W1!
7. At last For the BEST QUALITY HI-FI Audio on VHS Need Recording ON NTSC ,4.43 ,EP or SLP ON PAL, LP , Black screen Video input or Black screen Generation, Don't forget about input Voltage!
When doo like that on the result getting Quality best then any professional Reel To Reel And DAT is well plenty models not giving that results !
Analog sound is the best ! :-)
Yes!!! I picked Computer, reel to reel, VCR. I based it on the hiss. Zero hiss on computer, some on VCR, and more on reel to reel. It seemed to me anyways
Suddenly, goodwill/salvation army stores and pawn shops, across the globe, are being emptied of VHS technology.
Great video, man!
Thank you for what you do.
Stay analog AND analogical, my friend...
analogical! love that, thank you!
i enjoyed the video, back in the day i used to record my band rehearsals straight from the sounddesk on vhs tape, it sounded way better than recording onto cassette tape
oh that’s fascinating! so you mixed your band through console and recorded the stereo track? thanks for sharing!
I recorded a band on a Mitsubishi Hifi Vcr. Cd sold well, sounded great
Here you are a fellow believer of tapes and new subscriber from the super developed country of Mexico.
love 🇲🇽!!! thanks for watching 🙏
I saved so many songs VHS HiFi. It rivals digital. Sounds absolutely Awesome!
📼🤘
Well done. During 1978, I bought a TEAC 3440 and was appalled at the signal to noise ratio. Using a test instrument set, it barely managed 50db, so I bought a dbx II 4 channel unit and that solved the problem. I was impressed with the sound quality of the VHS HiFi PCM system. All that good sound from a tape barely moving compared to the TEAC at 15 ips. That's my 10c worth.
thanks for sharing!
This is so cool…I have never even thought about recording sound into a VCR…I am in my mid 50’s,so I remember VCR’s very well…I had a HiFi VCR that sounded amazing back in the 80’s…but that was pre digital anything…except watches and calculators….I didn’t know you could just send audio into it….I may dig mine out and give it a shot….Absolutely great video..just found your channel by accident..I am subscribed now..I gotta see more..
thank you for sharing! Happy recording!
Alesis ADAT machines also used VHS tapes, and they can be had for very little 💰 these days. Cool video! I really enjoyed the comparison between all 3. 👍🎶👂🙂
thanks for sharing and watching! 🤘
Cool channel man and thanks for all your vids!! I can hear a difference on reel to reel PAN. It is not centered, has more sound on right side
good ear! i had more issues with that back then and have dialed it in better these days 🙏 thanks for the kind words and let me know if there’s anything you’d like to see on the channel!
@@MadeOnTape cool and sorry my newbe english... i've been use an hi-fi stereo Panasonic VCR to two mics drums rec with very cool results, may be you have more nice tips to share. Thank you!
Very cool video. I would be really interested to see a mix done all in the box that is clean and digital and then sent through the VCR to see if it gives it any of that nice tape warmth.
definitely have more plans for the VCR! thanks for watching!
my guess was: 1 - reel2reel, 2 - cassette, 3 - vhs
i wasn't expecting cassette to be noisier than reel2reel, that surprised me though haha
on hifi vhs, the audio quality is great i think the bitrate is a bit lower than 44.1khz but pretty close to near-cd quality (for me anyways)
but on 2 head vcrs, the audio quality is about half that (which sounds about right since on hifi vcrs, there are usually 4 or more heads on the drum)
That's what I wanted to know. Thank you very much!
Happy to help!
I didn’t hear THAT much hiss with the vcr, though. And I already knew that vcr’s could be used for music: Radio Shack used to put some music CD’s on vhs tapes at one of the stores here in Houston in the 80’s (before Stereo VCR’s were available) just to have music in the store.
I could hear the hiss on the R2R, VHS had some rf noise because of the (not recorded) Picture, but it did sound as good as your R2R.
I came from Facebook, your sister posted this, so I gotta leave a view cause she cool af. My name is spook DeVille on Facebook🖤✨
she IS cool af. thanks for stopping by and checking it out! 🙏🤘
Many years ago I hooked up my VCR to my stereo system. The sound that it produced was outstanding. People were amazed how I was able to connect it to sound system. However eventually I disconnected it. But recently I purchased a Super VHS VCR machine off of Ebay. It was not that costly. It is a Toshiba with the VU metters. The unit feels like tank. I mean this unit has some weight. The sound that this thing produces is amazing. It blows away the sound of my old VCR. It rivals if not surpasses my Grundig TS 1000 10.5 reel to reel. If you are into music and stereo HI-FI, equipment, maybe you should consider purchasing one. VHS tapes can still be purchased from Ebay. I have purchased many. Again the sound is awesome. And it adds flavor to the sound system.
thank you for sharing! I agree there are some serious gems out there in the used market
i have a couple of that model vcr, they have great sound
This channel is exactly what I needed, thank you!
that's very kind of you! 🙏
I used to use a hifi VCR alongside 4 and 2 channel tape recorders in the 80s. My VCR was relatively rare in having manual record level and metering. Some VCRs were not hifi, because they used a low speed linear track. Mine offered a spec of 20 -20K and 90dB s/n.
manual record level and metering would be bomb
I had a JVC HiFi VHS machine back in the day and I used it often to record during the night from digital satellite radio. I was very much into trance music then and there was this particular radio show at Saturday evening followed by a six-hours of nonstop livesets from various DJ's. The trusty JVC recorded many of those sets in the middle of the night and always in magnificent quality. I then transferred the best sets to MiniDisc. I still have all those MD's, I also still have the JVC although the latter hasn't been used in years and sits in the attic - the last time I tried it worked perfectly fine though. And 20 years later I also find myself still listening to those MD recordings, some sourced from a HiFi stereo VHS tape, itself recording from a satellite receiver that got it's signal from a satellite 25,000 miles away in space. And it just works and it sounds excellent. And the music is terrific.
Um, satellites aren't 25,000 miles above is in "space". 25,000 feet (roughly 5 miles) would be more like it. I think listening to all that trance crap has actually put you in one. Lol
You realize if the satellites were 25k miles in "space" you wouldn't hear jack shit.
There are three main orbits around Earth that humans use for manmade shite. The Geosynchronous orbit has a lot of broadcasting and communications satellites because it's easier to point at a fixed satellite than to track one, and these are over 20,000 miles away.
I've definitely heard of low earth orbit communications as well, and those are becoming quite sophisticated. But these are between 160Km and 2000 Km generally.
Satellite radio like Sirius/XM specifically, last time I knew, used Geosynchronous orbit. Of course, who can keep up with these things unless it's your industry?
electronics.howstuffworks.com/satellite-radio.htm
@@MadeOnTape Don't bother. You're talking to a flat earther. You and I both know you're absolutely right obviously but he is both to dumb and too proud to acknowledge that.
Yes, the SVHS Hifi machines work great for audio! Love them.
yo signed in just to comment, anyhow here's my 2 cents, cause I guessed them all correctly.
keep in mind it could be lucky guess but here are the things that tipped me off:
1 / The computer: All around highest clarity and less artifacts , the swells on the right channel gave it away
2 / The Reel 2 Reel: The innate EQ curves due to the nature of the tape composition and recording/playback standarts cause it to have a shelf around mids/mid-highs (by todays standarts I assume [as in with the luxury of our contemporary technology as Hi-freqs would be more diffucult in the yesteryear to produce and distrubute] ) and their own characteristic saturation and compresssion.
3/ The VCR: Well kind of like the reel to reel with these differences, Higher speed = More high frequency content and the characteristic saturation / compression is different than that of the R2R.
Let me know what you think!
hey there! I think that's an excellent assessment. What i'm loving about the comments is that most people can easily tell which is the computer. Thanks for signing in and checking it out!
i guessed that 2 and 3 were the VCR and tape respectively, they sound so close i couldn't tell, but i could tell the TASCAM instantly
My old band back in the day we recorded all the live tracks on a fostex lr 16 16 track digital recorder using a biamp advantage one for preamps, mixed on reaper and the master 2 track sent to a JVC super vhs recorder. It was considered high end with the +4 dbu inputs. Interesting combo. Sounded good. Kinda added some warmth and certainly set the sound apart from a straight digital master. It still maintained a 20hz to 20kz response which was shocking
That VCR in particular does not have manual level inputs. So it tries to amplify quiter parts of the signal. There are VCRs with level input pots just like a tape machine and on those hi-fi vcrs it's the same as PCM 44 kHz 16 bit digitall as a matter o fact that's the way it is encrypted on hi-fi VCRs.
Great channel man. For these tests I think you should be using more hifi input sources. Drum machines are already very lo-fi so the higher end of the spectrum (were the most difference is imo) is not really being tested here. I though 1: PC, 2: Reel, 3: VCR but unsure about 2 & 3. PC was obvious because of lower noise.
yo thanks for the kind words! I had no idea how popular this video would be when I made it so I may revisit the topic with more hifi input sources in the future. Cheers!
@@MadeOnTape keep ‘em coming!
VHS, Beta, 8-tracks, and reel to reels make excellent recording devices - and sound better than early CDs. I just inherited several DVD/VHS combo sets from my Uncle who recently passed and the family gifted me my pick of the electronics because I'm a stereo buff. I also inherited a vintage Pioneer SA-9100 integrated amp (60W, ~30lbs with wood side cabinetry!!!), a TX-6200 tuner (same wood panels), and a Garrard turntable (I gave that to my cousin). These vintage pieces still fetch a few hundred dollars apiece today.....
ohhh nice inheritance! can’t beat the vibe of some older stuff
Very cool and informative vid as always. What immediately comes to mind are successfully transferring any recordings done on blank VHS tapes to digital ( for combining tracks, etc.) , the hiss and how to eliminate it without the classic noise reduction, and how to actually check recording levels while recording onto VHS.
some VCRs had recording levels, but mine is an inexpensive model with a built-in limiter. Experimentation is the name of this game!
Some Hi-Fi VHS models had a digital display that would show the line inputs audio levels while also allowing user adjustment.
for sure! maybe one will show up on this channel down the road??? 🤔
Got it right, I worked with Reel-to-reel, the punch is recognisable. Computer sounded clean, VCR sounded weak.
I did a video just on the preamps of the TEAC and was shocked how much punch they have, especially for bass! thanks for watching
I just bought a Panasonic omnivision VCR for mixing down my Fostex model 80. I was using that same Teac model you have for mix down but it doesn’t seem to be the best for that task. It does have some fantastic output to it though, something about those “drive” knobs on the front can really crunch the audio in a pleasing way on the way out.
love the crunch on the TEAC! Sounds great on bass in particular. Thanks for watching!
Back in the early 90’s, I used to use a Nicam stereo machine for backing tracks..
which meant I didn’t have to keep resetting the Drum Machine..
even ran a sync track on one side…
Ah, memories…
I had to look up NICAM! Thanks for sharing!
3 had the best low end and even sound 2 had a louder mid bump
Great video plus I still record with vhs tapes every day specially I get movies from Netflix and RUclips Putting all that on my vhs tapes
HiFi VCR uses companding circuitry to get that crazy high S/N ratio. So depending on the material you will hear the difference as there is a slight delay expanding the compressed audio on playback.
That song is a bop. The claps go a little off beat thoughout but I thought it was groovy!
thank you for watching and listening!
I STILL have the same setup, Porta-One and VHS Hi-Fi in my stable, occasionally use for grins instead of my HD24 and Audacity for mixdown. Since 1990.
I was able to tell fairly quickly. Not having a level meter on the VCR is somewhat of a problem. If you knew you were sending a loud enough signal it would probably sound better than the reel to reel.
The flutter gave the reel to reel away and the tape hiss gave the vcr away.
Mastering engineer here (25 years of work). My guess was: 1 Computer, 2 VHS, 3 Reel to Reel. 1 was very clear as it has the sharpest transients and less bass/sub-bass, VHS and Reel to Reel had a bass-bump and both have somewhat smeary transients. But I could clearly not tell the difference between VHS and Reel to Reel. Actually, VHS (3) sounded a bit clearer to me overall than the Reel to Reel. Shows how good VHS HiFi was / is as a Reel to Reel alternative.
i really appreciate this from a mastering engineer! I trust your ears!
i absolutely love your show =)
Number 2 sounded best to me, glad I found it was reel tape. Back then they used really high end reel to reel recorders like Ampex 24 track.
Do you have a video talking about how to put Reel, VCR, or tape deck in analog chain?
not sure what you mean specifically? a chain has so many links... happy to answer!
That great. Thanks for the videos
thanks for watching!
Hey, "made of tape" ...there is large amount of hiss on all of three formats. Or, it is a hiss from tascam? It is clearly noticeable on computer recording. Second, you have to raise the level of signal for video. In that case, hiss will be way down of your signal.
💯 the hiss is from the original TASCAM recording indeed! in fact the VCR to me picks it up clearer than the other formats.
i’ll definitely be exploring this more and do another video on it down the road. thanks for watching and your comment! 🙏
@@MadeOnTape ok, I am interested especially of recording onto vhs hifi....because they have usable counter. In theory, it is possible to know where is song, for every casssette. Second, it can be interested to make measurements with pink noise, for several models and brands. Is it possible for you?
@@colloidalsilverwater15ppm88 once i have the resources, I would LOVE to do these types of experiments! Right now, I don't have the money to acquire several models and brands. Thanks for tuning in! Watching and sharing will help me get to goals like this
lovely irony that yr VHS deck is badged 'sony'....
this technique of recording stereo FM audio in the vertical guard-band was also used in betacam SP decks from around 1989 to 1993, when digibeta first came along.
btw, I called the teac, but couldn't tell the other two apart. most of the noise seemed to be on the original multi.
Great video. Grab yourself a better VCR that has recording level adjustments so you can up the input. I have a Panasonic NV-F65 which you can manually adjust the record level and it has VU meters as well. Old machine but built like a tank. Quality is better then my reel to reel.
thanks! saved in my ebay searches now!
Avid listener. I have an AKAI 747 R TO R. Then recently been seeing all the good things on the analog HiFi of the helical scan tape. I'm sold. My AKAI does not have this range especially at the VHS tape running at 6hr mode!!!! It is more compact so the Akai now is in the closet:( I'm listening to a playback of a Vollenweider album from days in grad school, recorded on Maxell XL. I'll miss my big old reel to reel for the visual but not for the sound of the hifi vcr!!:)
I thought 2 was the VCR and the R2R was 3
I'm interested to try this at heavily levels, saturated, as I know how reel to reel behaves with the levels cranked but haven't tried with hi-fi VCR.
Actually the VCR has better sound than the computer, because the VCR is an analog recorder. Also, it has a higher effective tape speed than the reel-to-reel recorder. I was recording on a VCR back in the 80s. As a test, I recorded a CD to videotape. I played both back and switched between the two. I couldn't hear the difference. Even recording on the VCR at the slowest speed is still better than the reel-to-reel.
thanks for your insight! I love hearing from folks who actually did it!
After all of that I am mostly interested in what Tascam model you are using? Can you be so good to share that info?
hello! it’s the TASCAM Porta Two! (not to be confused with the TASCAM Porta 02)
almost everything on my channel is based around it. thanks for stopping by and watching! 🙏
I agree with you about the quality of Hi-Fi VHS sound. I used to use it for audio recording way back in the 90's when DAT was still a bit out of reach for the casual home studio and recording straight to PC wasn't practical since a "top of the line" PC back then only had 8megs (not gigs) of ram and a "huge" harddrive couldn't even hold an hour of PCM before it was full.
But this "test" is kinda bullshit. On RUclips nobody is going to be able to hear any differences in quality when all we get on this end (the viewer's end) is 128k compressed audio. We can't hear a difference because there is no difference. All three were 128k compressed on the viewer's end. A trained ear can hear the FM used in VHS audio. But not when it's compressed to 128k.
you get it, tho! appreciate your comment: have a beautiful day ✌️
I frequently used my HiFi VCR to record audio only in the late 80's to early 90's. Yes, it did provide a great recording compared to my cassette deck. However after a few years, the tape started to mistrack (think static type lines watching video...which you would remedy by adjusting the tracking)..The tape would typically play one channel well with the other channel missing or filled with static. I could not correct this (via adjusting the tracking). So yes, you will get a great recording with the VCR but my experience was the tape would go bad after a while.
great word-to-the-wise! thanks for sharing!
Hai fatto un bel video.il VHS e' famoso per avere una qualità audio perfetta,su questo non ci sono dubbi,infatti spesso e' stato usato dagli studi di registrazione per le registrazioni di prova,con una qualità del suono paragonabile al master.
thanks for the kind words and for watching!
Listening test was very insightful! I am actually thinking of using my old Sharp Hifi Stereo VCR for recording audio for various compilations. While first I was expecting VCR to be the highest quality of the three sources, my ears happened to be chosing for option 2, the RTR. Unfortunately, this is the most expensive option. I hoped VCR would win, but to my ears RTR did. More punch in the sound, in some way.
well, the source material and how you mix into certainly matters! the VCR won’t change much to the sound whereas the RTR will! But if you plan ahead, anything can work!
thanks for watching and listening! 🙏
@@MadeOnTape you're welcome. If I read your reply correctly, I guess my perception of the sound of RTR could be somewhat biased, cause it seems to.have more "punch" and "warmth" which could technically translate to some kind of added distortion. This may also be the reason for the current vinyl revival,.cause.people experience distortion as "warmth". Anyway, I would still go for accuracy and actual HIFI, so I.ll go for the VCR and try to boost the incoming signal in order to reach best S/N ratio.
I think I actually preferred 1,2 for overall eq balance on the mix. I think 3 lost a bit of low end somehow? which seems weird because the frequency response should go all the way down to 20hz. maybe different vcr's make a difference? perhaps there is a more distinct roll off? the hiss did seem louder to me on the reel to reel.
the differences are so subtle to me but i prefer the reel to reel probably because that’s where this music has been made so far... definitely more vcr experiments coming! thanks for watching 🙏
Good job. I've always wondered.
Not bad. It was clear to me from the beginning the source material but I wasn't sure about the other two.
The VCR in my simple setup (old laptop, old cheap headphones) shows a larger spectrum.
it’s definitely a fun thing to mess around with for very very cheap 🤘
I liked the vcr honestly
some of the first affordable multi track digital recorders that came out were the Alesis adat SVHS 8 track tape machine..I remember trying my Mitsubishi vhs recorder in the 80's it was a hifi deck but when only recording audio into it, it seemed to have some flutter in the sound... parhaps vcr decks got better over time because my deck was early on...
curious if today that flutter would be desirable for some applications!
I have a LG RC897T VHS/DVD-RW combo unit and the sound is simply amazing. I don't even plug in a video source. It's not necessary. I record 6hr mix tapes of tidal on shuffle at a time.
it’s such low-hanging fruit for audio nerds!
@@MadeOnTape I stopped trying to find affordable working Dolby S decks after I realized how good the quality is.
I thought the VCR would be 2, but at least on my monitors and headphones, the Teac was hissier. The "science" aproach is cool and very useful
thanks for watching! honestly when i listen back i can’t hear what i was talking about as easily. I think i meant to say more of the TASCAM hiss remained unaltered…
📼🎼🤘
@@MadeOnTape yesss. but its interesting how close the vhs and reel are. I have a TEAC like yours, but two channels, and i am planning to fix it (the control pannel doesnt work), but watching your videos i think, the sound quality is not much better than a cassette tape, maybe not better at all? i dont know
No one talks about hi fi VCR’s that have no audio controls or VU meters. Why did they stop putting these needed features on VCR’s? I know some do but most later VCR’s didn’t have them.
I can only assume companies like Sony wanted to make machines with massive appeal that were as affordable as possible. The audio controls were rendered to a built in limiter, like on my machine, and nothing else.