I agree with your definition of feminism 100%. That's how I knew you were a true feminist, you're not anti Trans or SWer ❤️ Thank you for discussing this, I'm so sick of these dumb straw man arguments!
So many people get stuck on that label, insisting that feminists only care about female issues. Female issues are important for feminists because it NEEDS attention. I'm personally identifying myself as an egalitarian these days, i.e. treating everyone equally irrespective of gender, ethnicity, economic class, etc, but keeping in mind that some segments of society need more attention than other because they have not been equally represented in the past.
She’s doing the exact thing that she says feminism is doing, limiting women and shaming people who want to do something different with their lives than she does.
Plenty of conservative points do this exact thing, blaming the other side for doing exactly what they're doing! And the fact that they do see it is just infuriatingly hilarious. "the liberals want to force us to get gay married!" no, but you want to force everyone to get straight married Karen.
Abbey: "Feminists shame people for their choices. " Also Abbey: "Women shouldn't wear revealing clothes, men should be masculine and not wear dresses, don't sleep around, save yourself for marriage, only marry people of your own faith, etc etc "
Also, isn't wearing any clothes at all technically unnatural? If someone advocates for morality that is based on whatever is natural, it seems they should be advocating for nudism, and getting rid of pretty much all manmade things.
What about people who are infertile? Should we kill them because they have no point in life? Or people who marry later in life- should it be allowed if they’re past child bearing age?? What’s the point?
Conservatives are either projecting their own ideological flaws or they try to pull a reverse uno on you. Oooh you say we are judgemental, how about we say the same about you kinda shit, it's honestly so tiring.
@@justynawisniewska1213 Exactly, she made a whole video about "coming out" as a conservative and the risk of being judged because of it, but she was very vague about exactly what kind of views you get judged for.
@@torkelsvenson6411 It's their favourite thing to do honestly. 'Oh I'm coming out as someone who holds ideas that have been mainstream for centuries, are harming minorities and women and only in recent times are being challenged, look how oppressed I am'
70 years in my country and 50 years in the country next to me. 5 years ago in Saudi Arabia. Oppression against women is literally the longest lasting and the most far reaching oppression in the history of humankind. But sure Abby. Sure.
As someone from Switzerland: in parts of our country, women even have only been able to vote since 1990... Certain parts of Switzerland refused to "let" women vote, and had to be forced by the rest of the country.
My favorite one is when they say there was nothing stopping women of the past from working, buying land, going to school, joining the military, etc. The willful ignorance they have of back then, and in some places today, there were laws that forbade these. Some even had a death penalty attached.
When "all men" got the vote? oh yes... about 10 years earlier... and only the rich and the conscripted Damn how many lies you can recycle? suffrage Men, just as women, were oppressed by the ruling rich elites. When "men" raised up for rights they got some rights, but not much. It took decades of fight until the idea of "universal vote" was accepted by the elites. Only then the women could hope to vote! After men fought for the right to vote in the first place. So, for centuries, neither men, or women, could vote. Only the filthy rich could. Oh, I guess history and feminism, or math and feminism, or truth and feminism, don't match, don't they? feudalist
“It’s natural for women to stay home” So Abby would clearly be ok with the free the nipple mindset right? Like bras aren’t natural and if she’s all about being natural there’s no problem! But wait, she’s not a fan of that? Then maybe this isn’t about nature....
Yeah…and how is showing skin not normal? Doesn’t everyone have but and bewbs? So why can’t I go out showing it? Because there’s nothing weird abt it since everyone has it
@@Name-tn1zg What does she do in the summer? I show arms, and legs and even my chest in the summer (because it can get hellishly hot sometimes), by no fault of my own. Why does she shame female presenting people for just showing skin?
@@sophie_drachen I think the strangest part about women showing skin is that they technically can show their boobs. They just can’t show their nipples! That’s why there are nipple covers and such. It makes no sense! Men and women nipples look exactly the same but that’s the only part of boobs we can’t show?? And only when women show skin it’s somehow distracting? Probably because we haven’t been allowed to show much skin. Once we normalize it, it won’t be an issue
Staying home as a wife, was generally an affluent privilege, historically women always went to work but were paid less or were in danger of being harassed/assaulted. In America especially, being able to stay home was a white affluent privilege, women of color have always needed to work.
this!! I cant imagine growing up staying at home and not caring about money, it's such an issue of mine till the point I overworry of being able to make money in a career in the future. being a stay at home wife is so distant and sounds honesty like a dream, just not realistic yk?
Right?! In my culture staying at home is a very rare luxury, and all the stay at home moms at my school always wear branded clothes, jewelry and have drivers with luxury cars.
Yes she must of forgotten about indentured servants, enslaved black and indigenous people, and the poor. She needs to read a book or at least touch up on the work history of this country.
I took a sociology course in high school; the glass ceiling isn't as simple as 'the patriarchy is stopping women' it's also how pregnant women are discriminated against and refused leave, how most positions of power are occupied by men, unconscious bias, etc. It's pretty clear that Ms. Shapiro doesn't fully understand what the glass ceiling is. (I'm not saying I do, but I think my understanding is a little more thorough than hers)
Well she doesn’t work aside from her RUclips videos. Of course she wouldn’t understand the struggle of working women and moms Plus your high school sounds awesome. I was just stuck with a bunch of Trump supporters 😭
Exactly! I always try to convince my boyfriend that women do have a disadvantage when it comes to working as a mom. I recently started hearing people encouraging women to not answer the questions regarding their family life (do you want kids? When? How many? Are they sick often?) during job interviews because it's got nothing to do with their ability to do the job. But men, when asked the same questions, don't have a disadvantage, since, you know, they won't stop working when the baby is about to be born (most of the time) and people think that the mom will be the one to stay at home when their kid gets sick.
@@TS-oz3ec not to mention the deman for people to spend majority of their time working. And the focus on 'productivity'. Like if you aren't giving your all, you arent giving enough. If you aren't top 10% you aren't working hard enough. Yes, a baby needs round the clock attention. But if you HAVE to choose between providing adequate care to a child attending school and between work/career. Work is too demaning. And people without children still have passions, hobbies, and friends. They either shouldn't be forced to sacrifice most of their lives just to survive now and when they get too old, and if they are lucky to have a nice few days off. And even for men work and parenthood is not easy. If they don't work enough then they are criticised for not caring to provide their children better lives. And when they work more they are criticised for not spending time with their children. Instead of criticising that their work won't allow for less hours (or in usa if they reduce the hours they will lose health insurance).
I totally can give examples of the pregnancy discrimination! When i was pregnant i had severe morning sickness before the test even came back positive, i worked in a meat and seafood dept of a major retailer and the smell made me ill to the point where i called in alot which led to write ups. I had a male manager tell me " there's no way your that sick at 1.5 months", " pregnancy doesn't work like that", and "my wife never got sick this early so there's no way you are". I looked him straight in the face and said " do you have a vagina? And have you ever carried a child, went through a pregnancy which are vastly different from person to person, to then birth said child?" After that he walked away knowing he screwed up BAD.
Ask almost any mother - working or not - who handles the mental load of parenting and they will almost all say the same thing. The vast majority of doctor’s appointments, school projects, parent conferences, calls from the school nurse, and every little detail down to the snack at soccer practice is handled by the mom. Almost all of it. The very fact that mom has to be accessible 24 hours a day makes it harder to advance in a career. Women who are able to do it have to be incredibly intentional about building (often paying) for a robust support system. And that in itself is a privilege. How many of us can afford a nanny to pick up a sick kid from school? So mom has leave - again - and in turn her employer sees her as less driven or capable or even just less available than her male colleagues. It’s exhausting.
I do understand where she comes from with the feeling of guilt when you aren’t working, but I think it’s the romanticization of capitalism, overworking, and hustle culture. I’m disabled and struggle with a full time job and do feel guilty that I would suit a part time job far better, but that guilt comes from not being this high achiever, super productive person. My guilt for relying on benefits and parental support comes from the idea that my worth is dictated by my achievements in my career and that’s capitalism, not feminism.
I feel this on a personal level. I have a permanent disability that prevents me from working (and sleeping). I had years of depression and still suffer from anxiety for not being a "productive member of society". It's crazy.
Exactly. Capitalism has this huge notion attached to it that if you're not working, you're simply just a bum living off of the government. Which is so infuriating because those assistance programs are established for a reason, and for people who actually need it. I'm so sick of people acting as if the government helping its people is breaking our economy. I hate how feminism is misconstrued throughout this notion as well, it's like, now that women can work, we have to choose between only wanting a family, or only wanting a career, and if you want a healthy balance of both, you're asking for too much. All around annoying.
If Abby really wanted to be a "natural", "traditional" woman, she would be going out into the wild every day to forage for edible plants to bring back to the village, where it would be evenly distributed amongst her fellow tribesmen because she would live in a small, egalitarian society where everyone took care of everyone else. But that doesn't sound like what she wants.
That sounds like the lesbian cottage core lifestyle. She even made a video about cottage core which is funny because she probably doesn't know how gay it is
@@friendofstars omg she made a VIDEO about cottagecore???!?!? i want to watch it just to see how ridiculous it is but don't want to give her any ad money 🤣
Thank you! Neither should be frowned upon, it's okay to take the "traditional" route as long as you're not being obnoxious about it. I think the "traditional" route is frowned upon because of the misconception that merely going down that path enables outdated stereotypes.
The great thing about true feminism is that it's all about choice and respect. Children are not for everyone and don't make everyone happy. And they're a big responsibility that even some parents fail at. I respect your choices as a person and I appreciate that you live your life in the way that makes you happy.
Does she realize couples who deal with infertility have to go out of their way to have kids? Wouldn’t it be more natural for them to not have kids? Having kids doesn’t come naturally to everyone.
@@bibianaguadalupeislasherre9880 that’s the funny thing though I’ve grown up in the conservative Christian community and they’re against not having kids bc it’s “unnatural” but then are okay with fertility treatments even though that’s not natural. It’s basically have kids or you have no worth. And they use the natural argument to justify it, even though they contradict themselves.
@@cady4917 And I bet she's also against of single parents, those who want to adopt a child and people who are or they want to be childfree for any reason.
we can only do this if we are rich or in a rich society. otherwise, the resources are better given to others. and, yes, it seems easier to just not have kids. we also feel that every individual in American society should have anything available to them, which is a nice thought but naive.
@@cady4917 this is a good point. people are inconsistent, no matter how well they thought out their beliefs and behaviors. i wonder whether there is an underlying consistency behind such inconsistencies, actually.
These people straight up think we're still living in the 50's somehow. It's delusional and depressing, they have no clue how expensive it is to pay off your own home.
It's easy to glamorize the 50's, especially if you are from America. The men had returned from the war and started working again, and there was no longer a need for female labor in the labor market (until the economy had grown sufficiently). But above all, the United States was the world's largest manufacturer and exporter. They produced more than all the other countries combined. Their economic growth was amazing and there was incredible optimism. It was the time of greatness in the United States. Like many others, they long for the golden age of the country, and as a result they forget the problems that existed then.
The natural way for humans to live is in nomadic hunter-gatherer tribes of around 20 to 30 people, with a life expectancy of about 35, infant mortality of around 50% and being on the menu of most large predators living alongside us. I doubt very much Abby would be ok with returning to that level of "natural".
Exactly. Conservatives talk about "natural" and "classic" but their choice of the "good ol' times" is completely arbitrary. Humanity has been constantly evolving and they are just randomly choosing a time span fifity years ago to take as their ideal state.
my mother was pressured to raise me and my siblings instead of take very prestigious job offers in architecture, and now we’re all stuck under my abusive father who uses him being the sole provider as an excuse for abuse of us all but my mom did want to be close and take care of us but she was also pressured to give up her career for it while my dad got to neglect and abuse us and act like he owned us
Same with my mom. It's awful. Gender roles, shitty ideas about romance and gender + no divorce in my country mean that it's going to stick for a while, too.
That’s literally what I’m scared of. I’ve heard too many horror stories and quite frankly, I really don’t want to become one. I hope it gets better for y’all tho! I’m hoping your mom is able to pursue her dream sometime in the future😕💜
My mum is a teacher but was an accountant. She changed jobs so that she could spend more time with and get holidays with me and my siblings. She doesn’t keep working because she’s pressured by the feminist movement to do so. She keeps working so that she can help support her kids.
She said staying home and taking care of children is "embracing womanhood" (thanks a lot, love what that says about childless single gals like me Abby) and then followed it with claiming to not have internalized misogyny.
It not only dumps on women who don't have partners, but women who don't want to have romantic relationships, women in relationships who don't want children, and women unable to have children. It's exclusive and shaming in every way. You don't need another person romantically to be meaningful, nor do you need to have children if that's not something you ever want.
Motherhood is embracing one path of womanhood. Doing your career is also another path of womanhood. Not having children is womanhood. The problem is the way we are arguing. For her, "embracing womanhood" is having children. I don't think she is hating women, from the first third of the video I watched (before stopping): Why bring it to that level? She's however not open minded to the unlimited variety of paths women ... and indeed people .. can take, and I think ultimately her video isn't really there to convert you to a conservative but to speak to women like her who left pressured to have high-powered careers.
@@LeonCouch She is not consciously hating women, which is why we laugh when she says she has "no internalized misogyny". It's quite clear those ideas of womanhood were hammered into her head and that she in turn hammers it into other people's heads. She is doing the exact thing she accuses feminism of doing to her community, shaming women with different views, the irony is not lost on me. Even if all she wanted to do was speaking to other conservative women, she is pretty much encouraging them to look down upon the other women who chose different paths in order to feel better about their choices... You can always find ways to shine a positive light on your views, but Abby chose to do it by putting down other women and posing as "the best version of womanhood" since they are closer to what they view as "natural"... Hmmm
@@kaihiroku8495 Often, we do find that abused people end up acting like their abusers, even upon being freed. What we want, I believe, is women *as individuals* choosing the right path for their happiness and the good of others too, like men should do as well. Especially in Western cultures, often, this will be a traditional family arrangement, but not always. For the past decades, I have seen the left nearly doing the same to the right, as the right does to the left. Because I live in more than one world of this society -- the conservative establishments of the past & the new liberal sides rising to dominance -- both in my professional and personal life, I have a lot more sympathy for others with different life experiences. I can say for a fact, having seen how many liberal friends turned upon my (ex)wife upon becoming a mother. She was very lonely, because the conservatives rejected her for her ideologies and the liberals rejected her for being a stay-at-home mother. Just because you don't see evidence of a claim doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And, just because certain problems might be solved in a liberal utopian world doesn't mean that new (perhaps even bigger) problems don't arise. It's a difficult world to live with diversity of ideas. I didn't watch the original video, on which Abby is commenting, and Abby is likely correct about the woman's views (if nothing else, I like Abby's definition of feminism); and, that woman might be saying things with too wide a scope, but I'd rather find out what motivated the woman and what truths I can learn beyond my perspectives and make a better world through knowing more. // For that woman advocating traditional feminine roles for females, I wonder how it would have changed all our reactions to her rhetoric if she had instead said, "For women who wish traditional roles like me, I recommend that you do it with fever and love your life, family, and babies with the help of a husband with the same goals and means".
I will never not be annoyed by people telling me that I’m unnatural for not wanting marriage and kids. And yeah, conservatives, if you actually care about the traditional family structure, you should support sex education, universal healthcare, living wage, etc.
@@kuggacouragegx6093 The fact that you think that's a valid argument tells everyone with a brain that YOU are a liar who doesn't live in the "real world". So tell me, how does it feel to have negative IQ?
I went to a high school in a wealthy neighborhood and a lot of my friends were really rich. These kids living in houses costing like 3 million would be like "But it's not my money it's my parents money" and I, who had grown up just above the poverty line, was like yeah, it's your parents money, that they're using to pay for you to go to Harvard. Your parents money that they're paying your car insurance with. Your parents money that's going to buy you an apartment in New York City. You can't discount your class privilege just because you're not getting a cut of your parents' salary. That's the issue that a lot of people like Abby have, they don't see the fact that not everyone's families can afford to take care of them or let them live at home. I honestly doubt Abby could've supported herself on her career alone, given the fact that she's in an arts career and she's probably used to a certain kind of lifestyle, so a lot of her words here feel so empty because she has the luxury of working simply because she loves her job, and not because she has to. So much ignorance had to have gone into thinking that everyone has that option.
yep. it'd be good for her to have perspective. at the same time, I assume from what you have said (not having watched Abby's video or this one entirely) that she was fortunate to pick a good situation to stay in her bubble.
While it's true life is getting expensive, you can make choices to increase the chances that you make more money and have enough money to have and raise kids. For example, there are states and cities in the U.S. that are cheaper than others. That alone makes a HUGE difference in affordability in housing and the cost of food. Selecting a higher paying job, working toward certifications, a promotion, or something along those lines makes a big difference as well; in other words, you don't even have to go to college to earn more. Ensuring to never go into consumer debt is equally as important to make a difference. My family and I survived on $60k/year growing up: SAHM, seven kids, and my dad worked 40hrs a week. It meant we had food, a roof, water, electricity, internet, clothes, a TV, and a PS2. We had two cars and furniture. I had a bike and a couple of toys. Our needs were met and we had some form of entertainment (aka some of our wants were met). My mom often times thrifted and always used hand-me downs for everything. She made sure we maintained our school supplies to avoid constantly being new markers, pencils, folders, etc. We ate at home most of the time. It is possible.
@@avapilsen Wow, good for you! Your folks scrimped away to provide for children but not everyone wants to do that. And what decade was that where your dad worked 40hrs a week and was able to provide for a household with 7 kids? Because that is not likely to happen nowadays with higher inflation and cost of living crisis, post 08 crash and covid. And are you living the life of your parents right now with 7 children of your own?... no didn't think so. So please stop.
@@evif9377 My siblings and I are between the ages of 19 and 34. I'm 24, and I still don't have any children. I was still a young child during the recession and was in college during COVID (3 of us were). It's obviously not easy to have many kids while making a slightly above average income in the US, especially nowadays. As I said, we had are needs met, used hand-me-downs, ate at home, thrifted, etc. We lived an average life growing up. It isn't as easy to do it in today's climate because life was much cheaper back then, but I also didn't make any implications that people should have plenty of kids or that women should stay at home. The point is that you can sacrifice and make deliberate choices to save more of your income.
10:45 - nailed it! I wanted to stay home with my daughter after my maternity leave was over, but financially I couldn’t. I had to work. This had nothing to do with feminism or being traditional....was based on reality of how things were in my life. The issue I have with Abby’s narrative is where is she getting her information? Who has she talked to about these specific topics? She doesn’t strike me as the type going out and getting different opinions that differ her own.
Her saying that women "choose to not get to the highest point in their job because instead they want children" is such bullish*t. Women are rejected from higher jobs and promotions because of the possibility of having children which employers believe will led to a decrease in work efficiency (also bullish*t). Its not a choice, its forced on them. I'm sure plenty of women could have highly successful careers but too often they are held back because men are chosen over women for these higher paid jobs and promotions. Thank you for making this video Rachel, some really important points of discussion here.
Also, there are women who want children and a higher career status, but find their male partner won’t step up as a coparent and with household responsibilities. Since they (quite reasonably) aren’t going to neglect the little humans in their care, the career goes to the wayside.
We should shed the term "feminist" from this conversation. I believe the best brand of feminism isn't about women. It's about *people* have choice to be and pursue happiness. The very word "feminist" implies to many people, correctly or not now, that it's a war between men and women. And, to reclaim the "correct" meaning of feminism in the public sphere, I think, is nearly an impossible project and the wrong place to put one's energy into making a better world and living a happy life.
@@LeonCouch Radical Feminists (terfs) tainted the word "feminism" and reduced it to "penis bad >:(". It's a shame, considering there's so much more to feminism than that.
@@LeonCouch I used to feel that way and hate the word feminist but now a day I’ve realized that if we all cringe at the word or try to pick a new word then we are essentially losing to the people who purposely drag the word through the mud and mischaracterize what it means.. we should all start proudly embracing the word and the gains we have made since it was dreamed up. If some people have cringe ideas we see as too far or are terfs and give it a bad name we can’t let them have the title.. as far as working to help women reach equality feminism is kind of part of the package.. of young people see women and left leaning people not even getting behind it then women lose. It sends the message we don’t need it anymore or don’t want equality. I ❤ feminism because my other option is what? What other movement and group and term do I use? It is kind of all we have and not embracing sends the wrong message
She's really talking about third wave feminism. Not all are like this, but some feminists nowadays come across as man-hating women who really do shame SAHM and things like that.
@@avapilsenAn argument could be made that those shaming SAHMs are by definition not feminists. Just because they use the term feminism to describe their exclusionary ideas doesn’t mean that they’re feminists. Similar to how some antinatalists like to pretend to be pro-choice
She literally talks about not judging women and how you're not "embracing womanhood" if you have a career back to back. The hypocrisy of this woman....
As a woman of color who is American, my ancestors never had the right to be 'natural' within this society. I did research on my family tree. Got pretty far, considering that for most African Americans, records get lost. I got to around the late 1700's. After slavery, my grandmother's were farm hands and maids. That was the 'natural' for women like us at the time. I feel like when women like Abby get on to their soap box about 'what a woman should do' they are strictly speaking from their own white and wealthy corner. I'm pretty my great grandmother's would have LOVED to live in a comfortable home, with all of their needs taken cared of, and their children's needs taken cared of, with access to healthy food, clean water, great education, and not have to worry about any of it...for most women like my grandmothers, that was just a fantasy. It just irks me how women like Abby spew this narrative.
lana de rey is the most white-teared white woman self-victimised “feminist” ever. i’m convinced she’s a covert narcissist. just wait, if rachel reviews lana del rey, i 100% guarantee that she will criticise her. because lana is a fake. lana even still follows ansel elgort (and we all know what happened with him). plus her poetry actually sucks. she never grew beyond her young teen years. i doubt she even actually reads any other poetry besides her own. i used to live lana but damn her true colours are starting to show
regarding her point about the glass ceiling, there is still a glass ceiling in many places around the world there because many employers automatically assume that a women will quit her job or be less dedicated to it because she'll have kids, even though she may not even want children. some places in Asia will even push women toward quitting if they think they're at an age where they'll have children. it's astounding how Abby can't consider realities outside of her little privileged bubble.
there has been this assumption, certainly. it used to be said directly to women getting advanced degrees, as my mother had told me when she was one of the first women to get a PhD in chemistry and proved them wrong with a life-long research career. Incidentally, she raised children (obviously!) and worked part-time successfully, in my opinion. But, as fewer women have children and richer women can afford child care (compliaining the whole time), this assumption is going away in high-achieving circles, which is not the majority of people. At the same time, I've had many women cry on my shoulder once they hit their 40s without children, which younger women really should take as a serious consideration. A few women have been glad with their choices to be single and/or childless throughout their lives too, but my observation is that this is a vast minority of women. In sum, different life choices and paths are good for different people. The feminism espoused in this particular video.
So, I, a man, is unnatural since I don't want kids (for very good reasons)? Not everyone who is capable of having children should be allowed to have children. I am, unfortunately, one of those people who wouldn't be able to treat his kids properly (no matter how much I want kids, I know I will mistreat them thus, for their safety, I can go without them).
i know right, i wish more people thought harder about having kids and their ability to raise, teach and love a separate human being. i hate how some parents project themselves onto their kids or mistreat their kids (emotionally, physically or mentally) 🥲
Me too, I'm a woman but I'd slap my kids to death if I ever had them. On top of that, I'm livin' in a garbage can so I don't want to give birth to kids in a trash country with low life expectancy.
Abby's argument is that women effectively have no mind of their own, their personal preferences, lifestyle choices, etc, doesn't matter. Every woman's place is to be home and have children. But not all women feel this way, just like not all men have the compulsion to defacto be the sole or even primary breadwinner for the family. I have two younger (but still adult) sisters. One wants to marry but not have kids, and the other one wants to have both. Not everyone's choices are dictated solely or even primarily by biological factors.
Y'know. I am a hardcore feminist. Degree in women's studies. And at one point, all I wanted was to be a stay at home mom. Never viewed those things as conflicting.
I would legit lose my mind if i styed at home. No joke im at uni and im finishing up my masters degree and jesus christ i just wanna work. Im a mechanical engineer and im so so exited about it i have an interview coming up soon for my ideal place to work. Im gonna be so happy if i get in
I don’t want this to sound rude, but I really like how you don’t make eye contact the whole video. I have social anxiety and I find it so calming to watch someone who isn’t staring into my soul for 20minutes haha Loved the video, such good points :)
She's right about one thing: Women naturally want to stay at home. What she fails to say is that men naturally want to stay at home too. I mean who doesn't want to spend their time under the covers eating ice cream, playing video games and watching youtube.... People with lives? Ha, we gave those things up along time ago
there's much truth to this. work sucks for most people, men or women. and, working all the time is generally not rewarding (other than financially) to most people too. this is a mistake made by some brands of feminism as well as many conservatives too.
That and crafters of the past typically did work in their own homes. Men weren't the main earners, they worked with their wives more often than not. It isn't "natural" for women to sit inside with 10 babies while men travel 20 or more miles a day to sit in a box and mingle with other identical men in suits lol.
Lmao, right?! My fiance and I are expecting our first. I love my job and he hates his. He would LOVE to be a stay at home dad and do all the cooking and house chores, but my income isn't high enough for that. My career does have a lot of growth potential, so we see that as a possibility down the line. Either way, if anyone ends up being a stay at home parent, it's going to be him.
The fact that Abby is a young woman and is feeding into such old class standards that people in her grandmothers age were already fighting for. It’s just sad that young people like here want to bring back old standards that don’t even benefit her..
Wait until she's old and her husband is leaving her for another woman. Lots of women ended up in this situation where they either have a sham marriage or you get tossed aside once you are no longer pretty to look at.
This is such a strawman. I've never seen a feminist shaming someone for staying at home, I've only seen conservatives say they do because they don't want to say "women should stay at home and not have a job bc that's a women's job, but that's not acceptable to say now so imma just go for this argument."
Nah I think they do exist. TERFs and other radfem types are prime example although they definitely aren't as vocal these days as they used to be and aren't a representation of feminism as a whole which alot of conservatives believe.
Can't people literally just mind their own business? The thought of carrying on the way she does, sticking my nose into other people's perfectly happy lives makes me cringe so violently. It's unthinkable to me. Unless someone asks me to involve myself or needs my help. That would be the only exception. It makes me so angry, the actual audacity of people like Abby. How dare they? What I do or don't do with my uterus or my life is nobody's business but mine. I'm sorry, rant over 😂🤣 They just infuriate me. Also, wilfully misunderstanding the fundamental concepts of intersectional feminism, these people ooooofff 😑🤣
It’s really annoying that these “trad wives” flippantly claim that you could be a stay at home mom if you’re just frugal. That’s not realistic for many families. And you bring up a great point with the state of the economy and how it doesn’t usually allow for families to live off of one income. I doubt that’s a point that they’ve never entertained. There’s so much perceived persecution with these christian trad wives. The evil feminists aren’t plotting to brainwash them into working and becoming “masculine.”
It used to be really common for women to take on laundry and housework jobs to make ends meet, even as married women with children. My own great grandmother left home as a teenager when she was hired on as a maid for another household.
all these things are true. the traditional wives feel under constant attack from our entire culture, even when we say we are open minded individuals and they, like the woke, are trying to creating a community with likeminded individuals in a public forum at the cost of their opponents. And, often they state too large a scope for their personal and community values, like the woke and nearly everyone does. if it works for me, it works for everybody else, right? ;)
@@LeonCouch It's the tradcon wives that are constantly attacking successful educated women for choosing career and autonomy. It as if the tradcons want all women to be miserable if they are
@@alexandria8116 So why does he owe people free stuff just because he makes decent money? I disagree with Rachel. People who want to help the poor can give to charity. It shouldn't be government's role.
@@vincesmith2499 I mean I disagree and don't feel it's about owing neccessarily but more about wealth distribution being better over all but also my comment didnt say he did owe anyone anything just that it was funny he insisted he was not in the top 5% when he actually was and the audience realizing that was funny also.
I'm reminded of a quote and something else that I read a while back. Rocket Raccoon: Why would you want to save the galaxy? Peter Quill/Star-Lord: Because I'm one of the idiots who live there! The other thing I read was something about taxes for schools in a particular community. One person was saying something along the lines of "I don't have children, why should I support this tax? I don't personally benefit from it in any way." The other person responded that he didn't have kids either, yet he still supported the tax. Why? Because he lived in that community. Because educated kids turn into adults who make better choices and better decisions and make this world a better place to live in. This always stuck with me. The USA is a prime example of the me, me, me focused way of living and mindset. One single accident, a possible cancer diagnoses, it takes so very little to take someone from middle class with savings, to broke, living from paycheck to paycheck, possible homelessness, possibly not even being able to afford treatment. "So why does he owe people free stuff just because he makes decent money?" is the exact reason our healthcare system is what it is. Because if one single person gets help who you think doesn't deserve it, then the whole system must be trash right? The ironic thing is the benefits of taking care of your community far outweigh the costs; even if, occasionally, a person who doesn't deserve help gets it.
@@byMidnyt The guy who supports the tax is free to donate money to the schools. People who support funding for PBS and the arts are free to donate part of their paychecks to those things. There's no need to force the unwilling to do so via taxes.
i am so glad everyday there are less and less people like this. being a feminist during times when this was the common way of thinking must have been awful.
Not me hiding the fact that I was a liberal feminist during the 2016 anti sjw phase because I didn’t want to be harassed by edgelords and lumped in with leftist extremes
I come from a working class family and your words resonated with me so much. I think privilege makes people live in a bubble. I am a DIY musician and entrepreneur with two active not music related projects living in a third world country. I basically have three jobs and take anything I can in between so I can survive! How can someone tell me to just don't work anymore? The delusion!! That honestly bothered me. Great video by the way!
My husband have simmilar problem with not seeing his privilage. He kept saying that they are poor. Why? Because his family werent able to finish their new house with cash in just few years 🤦♀️ sorry baby but if your family is able to built a new house with cash, even if it takes more time than you expected, then youre not poor!
Oh one day a teacher (in my master in psychotherapy class) said that women working were to fault for wages being so low, because more people working meant bosses could lower wages and people would still want the work. I love how she decided to blame women and feminism instead of blaming the corporations for abusing the position they are in
How does she feel about her brother being married to a doctor? Is this like a subtweet? Also a fact I learned from Vlogbrother's years ago - if you have $1000 in your bank account, you are above the global average in wealth.
That woman at 25 minutes in said the people telling her to get a job said "you can't stay here forever" are we sure the people telling at her weren't her parents?
Ugh.. Abby... I've done response videos to some of her stuff. I'm so fed up with people who do not understand feminism. Yes! I agree, it means equality & justice for everyone & allowing people to choose what they want to do with their lives. I think people just want to blame women for problems. I'm getting really annoyed by it. Thank you for doing this video! ❤
it's not that they don't understand it. they're grifters, they misrepresent it to strawman it. that's the entire career of people like Abby, Ben, Dave Rubin, The Quartering, etc etc etc. Few legitimately don't understand it, like Tim pool.
@@tugger as if you can possibly represent all forms of feminism into one essentialized description. You probably straw man those people more than they strawman
@@j.c.2240 That is the _real_ problem. Modern, 3rd and 4th wave feminists have peed in the feminism pool and tainted it for everyone, here and forever after. Unfortunately , you can't put that genie back in the bottle.
Some people just don't want to be associated with man-haters because the unfortunate truth is, while not all feminists hate men, all man-haters identify as feminists. Whether they are "true" feminists is a different question, but when all of them seem to identify as feminists, it's easy to see why some women might want to distance themselves from the term. After all, you don't really need a label to stand for equal rights.
Im maybe two thirds through your video, and you're speaking about people who are well-off but don't believe they're rich. To be honest my dad, I've come to learn, and people from my family are fairly well-off compared to some of my friends. I had bigger Christmases, I had dinner with the family almost every night, my mom bought the candy bar at the counter just cuz I asked. My point is, I viewed how I grew up as normal. Like everyone had things I did. I'm learning to really appreciate and acknowledge the privileges I have.
This is my experience as well. Grew up upper-middle-class and was taught anyone who tried got to be in that group. Then the owner of my dad's company died and despite having been VP he and everyone else was cut out of the deal when the owner's brother completed the deal. My dad tried his own business which did okay at first, but this was the start of the recession of the 2000s. We stayed comfortable, but it showed me that things can go sideways really fast. After dad died in 2007 everything went to shit. My mom had us sign over his life insurance under the idea that she'd hold onto it if we needed it. This is after him telling me he needed to change his will because he didn't want any of it going to her. They'd sold our home and had planned to divide the profits, but my mom kept it all. It made him worried she'd "sit on her ass and not help us with anything". She'd moved back in with us too which was a nightmare. I had been dealing w/undiagnosed illness that is also disabling. Long story short I became a camgirl because it was the only thing that I could do around my illness and met some of my needs to pay medical bills (At the time around 50k) and keep a roof over my head. My mom had previously kicked me out (this time) for"faking" my illness(I do now have a dx of Ehlers-Danlos w/vascular involvement). I could hardly keep my head above water and even became homeless at one point. Despite how traumatic a lot of this was, I can't tell you how thankful I am to have had these experiences in hindsight. It completely changed my worldview about everything. I had this idyllic, rose-tinted view of the American Dream that was not at all founded in reality, but privilege. At the same time, I was taught that caring about the suffering of others is a chump move and that you can't care about all the hardships of the world without cost to your mental health. That may have some basis in reality, but it's not ethical or moral imo. Especially when it comes to blaming others for their own failures while completely ignoring why those failures happen. The reality is that MOST people struggle at some point and we shouldn't need to experience those struggles to have compassion for them. Things like empathy, equity, and harm reduction should be the basis of our morality. It's also really depressing that these kinds of people are who are making our laws and working for our government. These are usually people who have had the means to get good educations, often even bribing their way into top schools. Almost the entirety of the conservatives are extremely privileged educated, able-bodied, Christian white men who have financial abundance. The left used to be like that, but it seems to be changing for the better. These folks are not living in the same reality as the rest of us. This became an essay. I blame COVID for the extreme boredness that has led to me leaving novels all over the internets.
It's not just that you might have had bigger or more things. You didn't have worry about food, housing, etc., pervading your family life and driving your day-to-day choices.
I remember once a friend of an ex of mine said that she blamed feminism for the reason she had to work and I was a bit flabbergasted by it. Like, pretty sure feminists (the good ones anyway) would rather we didn't live in a capitalistic society.
I would like to say: As someone who was born and raised privileged, it's REALLY hard to recognize that you are privileged. Very, VERY hard to recognize it.
Who decided that hunting and gathering is our true nature, what about before that, what about feeding through chemosynthesis off of hydrothermal vents at the bottom of the ocean like our ancestors did . thats pretty natural and doesnt even require a party of 2 to survive off of
Haha same my mom was good being a stepmom to a teenager but she had no real interest in the whole birth thing and the aftermath, I was an accident. My dad once said that if he wasn’t completely sure at the time that I would have blonde hair and blue eyes, he would have told her to abort me, she might gladly have done so.
Also wow Abby really seems to ignore a huge subset of feminist argument that looks at how "women's work" is consistently undervalued or treated as something that shouldn't be 'commodified' because it's so natural or inherent or whatever, leaving women expected to pick up more than their share of this work, and underpaid when childcare, housekeeping or emotional labor are their literal paid job.
Ugh. I stayed home years ago ( I'm a grandmother now). It was a mistake. Sure, I enjoyed my child, but in the long run it wasn't the right choice for me. But that was the option my formern religion gave me as acceptable.
@@zeldamorgan9260 lovely! and, congrats. I hope to hear everyone in the future reporting of their steps forward to individual as well as collective happiness and meaning.
@@LeonCouch I certainly support anyone who can and wants to be a sah parent, but the reasons and situations really need to be examined prior. The social, personal and economic impacts can be irreversible
I had the displeasure of dealing with SEVERAL women who talk like Abby does. They were all smug and patronizing up on their ‘natural’ pedestal until their husbands kicked that pedestal out from under them and divorced them for younger women. All of a sudden they had bills to pay and mouths to feed and NO income to do this with. Spoilers! They also wound up dependent on the social welfare programs they’d spent their lives fighting to abolish.
I am a feminist and a stay at home mom. In reality of my home situation it would be financially detrimental for me to have a job because we only have one car which my husband uses for work and I would just be working to cover the cost of day care. Also some people are not made to be stay at home parents. This shit can be crazy difficult mentally emotionally and physically and some people are just better suited for working life
seems like a very reasonable assessment for you, and the second paragraph is certainly true for people (men & women). i'm glad it's working for you all.
I hope you’re doing well Rachel!! I love your videos. And I think you hit the nail on the head with a lot of your points. I personally agree that there are women that may feel guilt for not wanting to work/stay at home, but as you pointed out I think Abby is misinterpreting *where* the guilt and shame may be coming from. It’s not from feminism, it’s society at large making them feel like they’re useless if they don’t work. (And without an income then yeah...you may literally be *financially* useless) I feel that way sometimes. I have struggled with this because I *do* want to stay at home and I do feel guilty for wanting that. I am a home body, I feel most comfortable working on my own...I plan on having one kid and maybe adopting later in life and I’d love to be there for them. So yes, I would say I would be very happy being a “stay at home mom”. But at the same time I am [will be] so much more than a mom. I am also an artist and have the luxury of creating my art at home, so I make a very modest income from selling my art online and at fairs/conventions and such. THAT’S the kind of work that fits me best, but the work doesn’t (yet) support me alone, let alone support my boyfriend or any potential children. So until my art career takes off, which it may never, I NEED a “job” job where I leave my house for “real” work. So you’re totally right, even for me, someone who knows exactly what she wants and what she needs to be happy (and that includes staying home) I literally can’t because of how our society and capitalism works. My boyfriend works at Amazon to survive but I know he absolutely hates it and wishes he could work from home too. It’s truthfully not just a women/men/gender roles thing, it’s just a personality/skills thing that applies to all people and I also wish sometime in the future we could approach topics based on peoples’ skills and brains instead of their assigned gender roles. For example men getting shit on for not working/being the breadwinner or...you know basically any house spouse gets looked down upon in some way or another. But this pandemic has also inspired a lot of epiphanies for some people I think, I have talked with so many people who realized they love the lifestyle of working from home, and others who hate it because they prefer more human contact or have a hard time focusing at home. So everyone is different and I think embracing feminism can help all people thrive. Sorry for rambling but I just never have an outlet for these discussions so thank you for inspiring thought ❤️
I love how you include non-binary and trans people in the conversation when you talk about gender equality! Surprisingly few people do that, and it feels nice to be acknowledged ❤️
Thank you for this informative take on lower income people and their choices or lack thereof! I also grew up in a low income/impoverished situation. Most people who end up making youtube a career did not come from these backgrounds, and I think it’s SO important that people be educated about what it’s like to not be income secure. Thank you thank you! It’s so validating to have representation online
21:50 - This thing of *women* ""choosing"" family over career reminded me a lot of this amazing book, "Kim Ji-young, Born 1982". Is not a perfect book by any means, but it makes a great point when it comes to women feeling like they should stay at home because society believes so.
unrelated but i would LOVE to hear you do another song lyric analysis of some sort, especially by artists who are praised for their writing, like lana, taylor, lorde, etc..
The talk of income inequality is something i have seen first hand as well. I've had a couple bosses in the past that made well into 6 figures, had nice homes, sometimes had a summer home, never had a car more than 6 years out of date, took vacations around the world... and i would still have to hear them talk about their financial troubles. They would complain about employees working over time or asking for a raise or an extra week of paid vacation. Meanwhile their employees are driving busted cars, driving without car insurance because they cant afford it, and applying for food stamps. Im sorry but if you are taking 3 trips to Europe every year, for weeks at a time, you are not having financial problems. And if you are it really is your own fault.
I think this also relates to how people like Abby benefit from feminism. The traditional role is what she asking others to aspire to, it is not something she is doing herself. Having a platform, education and even bank account is because of feminism and because of it giving her a choice to do so.
I've always wondered: If a 'traditional' wife or husband became injured or disabled & unable to fulfill their 'traditional' roles of either primary earner or primary homemaker -What if one of them were to die? -Just go out & get another one?
I remember my Dad complaining about the income tax. Since my family's divorce and his re-marriage, he's essentially been financially supporting three households (my mum's, his, and his wife's entire family back in the Philippines). I've always identified as living a well-off middle class life. Even when we were kicked out and had to move back to our old neighbourhood living on under £12000 a year, reliant on the income from selling our possessions on eBay, eating the cheapest frozen foods we could (which we didn't notice because we love those foods so for us it was like treat day every day) and having to be sat down and given the "we might have to move out in the next couple months if I can't find another job contract" talk. Even as my mum got lucky with eventually finding a job and started earning over £12000 a year, our old money habits (only eating out or getting take away once a month on average, not doing any activities outside the house unless it's free or someone else is paying, not asking for expensive presents every birthday, not going on holiday, buying most of my clothes from charity shops, repairing clothes to keep for longer and wearing hand me downs, don't opt to waste our money on the lives of pets instead of the lives of family members, etc.) I was persistently bullied and targeted with assault and harassment by children who thought I was a tory / posh because of the accent I have (which was indoctrinated into me, along with believing that there is a "correct" way to speak / write english which I am now slowly deconstructing as I recognise how ridiculous those teachings in that school before the divorce were) and the fact the
I used to have an MD who earned about £60,000 per year, and we operated nationwide. Most people in the country can barely afford a mortgage let alone get by. I do think most rich people do know, they just don't care about the suffering of other's.
I think she's in her early twenties through. Great video, I love that you're going back to your roots while still experimenting. It's amazing to see how far you've come! 👍
Problem is that there are weirdos that believe basically anything under the sun, and with tools like Google they aren't hard to find if you go actively looking for them...
It's so common for people to be out of touch, it's really heartbreaking. I often feel like those who make even just 50k a year don't realize how astronomically well off they really are. I'm a college student who works very hard to earn 10k a year and have to live with multiple friends to be able to afford rent. It often feels like people with more money hear that people are suffering, but it just goes in one ear and out the other. It's like they don't even believe us, because they are so far removed from our situation.
Conservatives: "facts don't care about your feelings" Also conservatives: "feminism is wrong because I feel bad for not opening doors it has unlocked for me"
When I reviewed this Classist Abby video, my take was that feminism’s goal is that women who choose to work outside the home (or who must out of necessity) can do so and be treated fairly there -- and that women who choose to and are able to make housekeeping their jobs be treated fairly there too.
the thing about classically abby is that the minute she starts talking, you think, "ok ok I see your point, this is good" and then 2 minutes later (or less) you think "oh no. oh NO"
The thing that kills me is that they often use the word choose when in reality they only want women to choose one type of life. I have been a stay at home mom for the majority of my parenthood and I enjoy it but it is hard work and it is not for everybody. I would never tell another person how to live their life and tell them that my choice is the only correct one. That’s insanity!
My mom is a working woman and I would never say that she wasn't a good mom. She had a choice not to work but she felt satisfied by doing her job. My mom is my bff and my inspiration. She is the strongest women I have ever met in my life. My mom has taught me that being financially independent is very important as it gives you power to say no in many situations and make your own choices.
I agree with your definition of feminism 100%. That's how I knew you were a true feminist, you're not anti Trans or SWer ❤️ Thank you for discussing this, I'm so sick of these dumb straw man arguments!
SWer?
So many people get stuck on that label, insisting that feminists only care about female issues. Female issues are important for feminists because it NEEDS attention.
I'm personally identifying myself as an egalitarian these days, i.e. treating everyone equally irrespective of gender, ethnicity, economic class, etc, but keeping in mind that some segments of society need more attention than other because they have not been equally represented in the past.
@It's The Fox! Sex worker. There's a branch of radical feminism that's like TERFs, but they hate sex workers instead of trans folk.
@@manifestationsofasort Spot on, we call them SWERFs. Love your handle haha
@@manifestationsofasort Im aware of their existence
edit; but yes didnt know the acronym
She’s doing the exact thing that she says feminism is doing, limiting women and shaming people who want to do something different with their lives than she does.
The self awareness is not strong with her
I thought you meant Rachel at first 😅 oops 😬
Exactly
Plenty of conservative points do this exact thing, blaming the other side for doing exactly what they're doing! And the fact that they do see it is just infuriatingly hilarious. "the liberals want to force us to get gay married!" no, but you want to force everyone to get straight married Karen.
What, are you implying that conservatives are hypocrites?! Impossible!
It's like she and her brother are competing to be the most annoying sibling.
LMAO
Hard to say who’s winning!
@@letterborneVods both of them equally
I don't want to imagine what their family holiday dinners are like. They both inherently are so aggressive.
@@simplysimpy17 true gender equality
Abbey: "Feminists shame people for their choices. "
Also Abbey: "Women shouldn't wear revealing clothes, men should be masculine and not wear dresses, don't sleep around, save yourself for marriage, only marry people of your own faith, etc etc "
Also, isn't wearing any clothes at all technically unnatural? If someone advocates for morality that is based on whatever is natural, it seems they should be advocating for nudism, and getting rid of pretty much all manmade things.
What about people who are infertile? Should we kill them because they have no point in life? Or people who marry later in life- should it be allowed if they’re past child bearing age?? What’s the point?
Conservatives are either projecting their own ideological flaws or they try to pull a reverse uno on you. Oooh you say we are judgemental, how about we say the same about you kinda shit, it's honestly so tiring.
@@justynawisniewska1213 Exactly, she made a whole video about "coming out" as a conservative and the risk of being judged because of it, but she was very vague about exactly what kind of views you get judged for.
@@torkelsvenson6411 It's their favourite thing to do honestly. 'Oh I'm coming out as someone who holds ideas that have been mainstream for centuries, are harming minorities and women and only in recent times are being challenged, look how oppressed I am'
As a man who is currently doing hand-embroidery I can say that gender roles are stupid
That is awesome!
I’m a cross stitcher myself, and I say it’s for everyone! Except people who can’t see well, don’t strain yourselves ♥️
I've just started trying to learn to embroider myself! Teach me your waysssss ❤
Cool, embroidery is difficult!
cool i love embroidery!!
"feminism has told women that they've been oppressed" we literally just had the 100 year anniversary of being able to vote, abigail
70 years in my country and 50 years in the country next to me. 5 years ago in Saudi Arabia. Oppression against women is literally the longest lasting and the most far reaching oppression in the history of humankind. But sure Abby. Sure.
As someone from Switzerland: in parts of our country, women even have only been able to vote since 1990... Certain parts of Switzerland refused to "let" women vote, and had to be forced by the rest of the country.
My favorite one is when they say there was nothing stopping women of the past from working, buying land, going to school, joining the military, etc.
The willful ignorance they have of back then, and in some places today, there were laws that forbade these. Some even had a death penalty attached.
When "all men" got the vote?
oh yes... about 10 years earlier... and only the rich and the conscripted
Damn how many lies you can recycle?
suffrage
Men, just as women, were oppressed by the ruling rich elites. When "men" raised up for rights they got some rights, but not much. It took decades of fight until the idea of "universal vote" was accepted by the elites.
Only then the women could hope to vote! After men fought for the right to vote in the first place.
So, for centuries, neither men, or women, could vote.
Only the filthy rich could.
Oh, I guess history and feminism, or math and feminism, or truth and feminism, don't match, don't they?
feudalist
@@sarahjordan4845 wat? Is that even a word?
“It’s natural for women to stay home”
So Abby would clearly be ok with the free the nipple mindset right? Like bras aren’t natural and if she’s all about being natural there’s no problem! But wait, she’s not a fan of that? Then maybe this isn’t about nature....
Yeah…and how is showing skin not normal? Doesn’t everyone have but and bewbs? So why can’t I go out showing it? Because there’s nothing weird abt it since everyone has it
@@Name-tn1zg What does she do in the summer? I show arms, and legs and even my chest in the summer (because it can get hellishly hot sometimes), by no fault of my own. Why does she shame female presenting people for just showing skin?
@@sophie_drachen bro Idk we have to ask her I would never get why she always says stuff like this and sexualizes females bodies
@@sophie_drachen I think the strangest part about women showing skin is that they technically can show their boobs. They just can’t show their nipples! That’s why there are nipple covers and such. It makes no sense! Men and women nipples look exactly the same but that’s the only part of boobs we can’t show?? And only when women show skin it’s somehow distracting? Probably because we haven’t been allowed to show much skin. Once we normalize it, it won’t be an issue
Highlights aren't natural either . Hell , even the internet isn't lol
Staying home as a wife, was generally an affluent privilege, historically women always went to work but were paid less or were in danger of being harassed/assaulted. In America especially, being able to stay home was a white affluent privilege, women of color have always needed to work.
Such a good point!
this!! I cant imagine growing up staying at home and not caring about money, it's such an issue of mine till the point I overworry of being able to make money in a career in the future. being a stay at home wife is so distant and sounds honesty like a dream, just not realistic yk?
Right?! In my culture staying at home is a very rare luxury, and all the stay at home moms at my school always wear branded clothes, jewelry and have drivers with luxury cars.
Dang..., this so true----
Yes she must of forgotten about indentured servants, enslaved black and indigenous people, and the poor. She needs to read a book or at least touch up on the work history of this country.
I took a sociology course in high school; the glass ceiling isn't as simple as 'the patriarchy is stopping women' it's also how pregnant women are discriminated against and refused leave, how most positions of power are occupied by men, unconscious bias, etc. It's pretty clear that Ms. Shapiro doesn't fully understand what the glass ceiling is. (I'm not saying I do, but I think my understanding is a little more thorough than hers)
Well she doesn’t work aside from her RUclips videos. Of course she wouldn’t understand the struggle of working women and moms
Plus your high school sounds awesome. I was just stuck with a bunch of Trump supporters 😭
Exactly! I always try to convince my boyfriend that women do have a disadvantage when it comes to working as a mom.
I recently started hearing people encouraging women to not answer the questions regarding their family life (do you want kids? When? How many? Are they sick often?) during job interviews because it's got nothing to do with their ability to do the job. But men, when asked the same questions, don't have a disadvantage, since, you know, they won't stop working when the baby is about to be born (most of the time) and people think that the mom will be the one to stay at home when their kid gets sick.
@@TS-oz3ec not to mention the deman for people to spend majority of their time working. And the focus on 'productivity'. Like if you aren't giving your all, you arent giving enough. If you aren't top 10% you aren't working hard enough.
Yes, a baby needs round the clock attention. But if you HAVE to choose between providing adequate care to a child attending school and between work/career. Work is too demaning.
And people without children still have passions, hobbies, and friends. They either shouldn't be forced to sacrifice most of their lives just to survive now and when they get too old, and if they are lucky to have a nice few days off.
And even for men work and parenthood is not easy. If they don't work enough then they are criticised for not caring to provide their children better lives. And when they work more they are criticised for not spending time with their children. Instead of criticising that their work won't allow for less hours (or in usa if they reduce the hours they will lose health insurance).
I totally can give examples of the pregnancy discrimination! When i was pregnant i had severe morning sickness before the test even came back positive, i worked in a meat and seafood dept of a major retailer and the smell made me ill to the point where i called in alot which led to write ups. I had a male manager tell me " there's no way your that sick at 1.5 months", " pregnancy doesn't work like that", and "my wife never got sick this early so there's no way you are". I looked him straight in the face and said " do you have a vagina? And have you ever carried a child, went through a pregnancy which are vastly different from person to person, to then birth said child?" After that he walked away knowing he screwed up BAD.
Ask almost any mother - working or not - who handles the mental load of parenting and they will almost all say the same thing. The vast majority of doctor’s appointments, school projects, parent conferences, calls from the school nurse, and every little detail down to the snack at soccer practice is handled by the mom. Almost all of it. The very fact that mom has to be accessible 24 hours a day makes it harder to advance in a career. Women who are able to do it have to be incredibly intentional about building (often paying) for a robust support system. And that in itself is a privilege. How many of us can afford a nanny to pick up a sick kid from school? So mom has leave - again - and in turn her employer sees her as less driven or capable or even just less available than her male colleagues. It’s exhausting.
I do understand where she comes from with the feeling of guilt when you aren’t working, but I think it’s the romanticization of capitalism, overworking, and hustle culture. I’m disabled and struggle with a full time job and do feel guilty that I would suit a part time job far better, but that guilt comes from not being this high achiever, super productive person. My guilt for relying on benefits and parental support comes from the idea that my worth is dictated by my achievements in my career and that’s capitalism, not feminism.
exactly what i was thinking the whole video!
Exactly what I was thinking.
I feel this on a personal level. I have a permanent disability that prevents me from working (and sleeping). I had years of depression and still suffer from anxiety for not being a "productive member of society". It's crazy.
Very well said!!!
Exactly. Capitalism has this huge notion attached to it that if you're not working, you're simply just a bum living off of the government. Which is so infuriating because those assistance programs are established for a reason, and for people who actually need it. I'm so sick of people acting as if the government helping its people is breaking our economy. I hate how feminism is misconstrued throughout this notion as well, it's like, now that women can work, we have to choose between only wanting a family, or only wanting a career, and if you want a healthy balance of both, you're asking for too much. All around annoying.
If Abby really wanted to be a "natural", "traditional" woman, she would be going out into the wild every day to forage for edible plants to bring back to the village, where it would be evenly distributed amongst her fellow tribesmen because she would live in a small, egalitarian society where everyone took care of everyone else.
But that doesn't sound like what she wants.
She'd call that socialism.
That sounds nice
That sounds like the lesbian cottage core lifestyle. She even made a video about cottage core which is funny because she probably doesn't know how gay it is
@@friendofstars omg she made a VIDEO about cottagecore???!?!? i want to watch it just to see how ridiculous it is but don't want to give her any ad money 🤣
LMAO yess🤣🤣🤣
The point about conservatives making it harder for women to stay home is SO GOOD. I hadn't even thought about that.
Feminism is being able to have the choice to have a career or be a stay at home parent (or both!). Both should be equally valued choices.
A lot of conservative people do not agree with that.
Thank you! Neither should be frowned upon, it's okay to take the "traditional" route as long as you're not being obnoxious about it. I think the "traditional" route is frowned upon because of the misconception that merely going down that path enables outdated stereotypes.
@@debrawehrly9551 They don't have to. They have a right to be wrong.
Yet this chick literally shamed abby and many women for wanting to stay home and also in the same movement tell women to stay home🤦
@@debrawehrly9551 actually false.
I am a child free feminist. Do what you want. Be happy and safe. I support your choice.
My husband and I are child free also and plan to remain that way
As long as you're not eating baby ice cream.
same here with no regrets at age 68.
The great thing about true feminism is that it's all about choice and respect. Children are not for everyone and don't make everyone happy. And they're a big responsibility that even some parents fail at.
I respect your choices as a person and I appreciate that you live your life in the way that makes you happy.
I wanna be just like you!
Does she realize couples who deal with infertility have to go out of their way to have kids? Wouldn’t it be more natural for them to not have kids? Having kids doesn’t come naturally to everyone.
And I bet she also judges people who wants to adopt or having a IVF procedure instead of having biological children.
@@bibianaguadalupeislasherre9880 that’s the funny thing though I’ve grown up in the conservative Christian community and they’re against not having kids bc it’s “unnatural” but then are okay with fertility treatments even though that’s not natural. It’s basically have kids or you have no worth. And they use the natural argument to justify it, even though they contradict themselves.
@@cady4917 And I bet she's also against of single parents, those who want to adopt a child and people who are or they want to be childfree for any reason.
we can only do this if we are rich or in a rich society. otherwise, the resources are better given to others. and, yes, it seems easier to just not have kids. we also feel that every individual in American society should have anything available to them, which is a nice thought but naive.
@@cady4917 this is a good point. people are inconsistent, no matter how well they thought out their beliefs and behaviors. i wonder whether there is an underlying consistency behind such inconsistencies, actually.
The economy and high cost of living is why I can't afford to pop out three kids by age 27. Not feminism.
Lmao but so true
a very realistic response.
These people straight up think we're still living in the 50's somehow. It's delusional and depressing, they have no clue how expensive it is to pay off your own home.
and women have never not worked. take a Look through history.
@@julzbehr6696 I don't doubt it.
@@julzbehr6696 What I mean is it's ridiculous that these people try to push the idea that there's only one linear way one should live their own life.
Sorry, sorry, sorry. I didn’t want to insult you.
It's easy to glamorize the 50's, especially if you are from America.
The men had returned from the war and started working again, and there was no longer a need for female labor in the labor market (until the economy had grown sufficiently). But above all, the United States was the world's largest manufacturer and exporter. They produced more than all the other countries combined. Their economic growth was amazing and there was incredible optimism. It was the time of greatness in the United States.
Like many others, they long for the golden age of the country, and as a result they forget the problems that existed then.
The natural way for humans to live is in nomadic hunter-gatherer tribes of around 20 to 30 people, with a life expectancy of about 35, infant mortality of around 50% and being on the menu of most large predators living alongside us. I doubt very much Abby would be ok with returning to that level of "natural".
Exactly. Conservatives talk about "natural" and "classic" but their choice of the "good ol' times" is completely arbitrary. Humanity has been constantly evolving and they are just randomly choosing a time span fifity years ago to take as their ideal state.
Actually that s a very debatable way of using the word natural. You assume that humans are out of nature which is pretty inaccurate.
@@comicbutserious263 judging by your other comment "why are eugenics even atrocious", think your worldview could use an overhaul
Isn't this the dream life tho 😍
@@Madziorek123 Omg, yessss. Getting mauled by wild animals and dying at 30 😍🥰
my mother was pressured to raise me and my siblings instead of take very prestigious job offers in architecture, and now we’re all stuck under my abusive father who uses him being the sole provider as an excuse for abuse of us all but my mom did want to be close and take care of us but she was also pressured to give up her career for it while my dad got to neglect and abuse us and act like he owned us
Same with my mom. It's awful. Gender roles, shitty ideas about romance and gender + no divorce in my country mean that it's going to stick for a while, too.
I am afraid that sometimes when the wife chooses to stay home, the relationship dynamic changes
That’s literally what I’m scared of. I’ve heard too many horror stories and quite frankly, I really don’t want to become one. I hope it gets better for y’all tho! I’m hoping your mom is able to pursue her dream sometime in the future😕💜
I'm so sorry.
Exactly, same.
My mum is a teacher but was an accountant. She changed jobs so that she could spend more time with and get holidays with me and my siblings. She doesn’t keep working because she’s pressured by the feminist movement to do so. She keeps working so that she can help support her kids.
Aw, my mom did the exact same job switch for the exact same reasons haha! twin moms
@@flibusted 😂😂😂
Aww man 😔 my mom has been working for 100 years non stop because FEMINIST 🤬
@@Name-tn1zg maybe your mum just likes her career
@@barboralitvanova5111 NO THESE FEMINIST MAN ☹🥵😡🤬
She said staying home and taking care of children is "embracing womanhood" (thanks a lot, love what that says about childless single gals like me Abby) and then followed it with claiming to not have internalized misogyny.
It not only dumps on women who don't have partners, but women who don't want to have romantic relationships, women in relationships who don't want children, and women unable to have children. It's exclusive and shaming in every way. You don't need another person romantically to be meaningful, nor do you need to have children if that's not something you ever want.
Motherhood is embracing one path of womanhood. Doing your career is also another path of womanhood. Not having children is womanhood. The problem is the way we are arguing. For her, "embracing womanhood" is having children. I don't think she is hating women, from the first third of the video I watched (before stopping): Why bring it to that level? She's however not open minded to the unlimited variety of paths women ... and indeed people .. can take, and I think ultimately her video isn't really there to convert you to a conservative but to speak to women like her who left pressured to have high-powered careers.
@@LeonCouch She is not consciously hating women, which is why we laugh when she says she has "no internalized misogyny". It's quite clear those ideas of womanhood were hammered into her head and that she in turn hammers it into other people's heads. She is doing the exact thing she accuses feminism of doing to her community, shaming women with different views, the irony is not lost on me. Even if all she wanted to do was speaking to other conservative women, she is pretty much encouraging them to look down upon the other women who chose different paths in order to feel better about their choices... You can always find ways to shine a positive light on your views, but Abby chose to do it by putting down other women and posing as "the best version of womanhood" since they are closer to what they view as "natural"... Hmmm
@@kaihiroku8495 Often, we do find that abused people end up acting like their abusers, even upon being freed. What we want, I believe, is women *as individuals* choosing the right path for their happiness and the good of others too, like men should do as well. Especially in Western cultures, often, this will be a traditional family arrangement, but not always. For the past decades, I have seen the left nearly doing the same to the right, as the right does to the left. Because I live in more than one world of this society -- the conservative establishments of the past & the new liberal sides rising to dominance -- both in my professional and personal life, I have a lot more sympathy for others with different life experiences. I can say for a fact, having seen how many liberal friends turned upon my (ex)wife upon becoming a mother. She was very lonely, because the conservatives rejected her for her ideologies and the liberals rejected her for being a stay-at-home mother. Just because you don't see evidence of a claim doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And, just because certain problems might be solved in a liberal utopian world doesn't mean that new (perhaps even bigger) problems don't arise. It's a difficult world to live with diversity of ideas. I didn't watch the original video, on which Abby is commenting, and Abby is likely correct about the woman's views (if nothing else, I like Abby's definition of feminism); and, that woman might be saying things with too wide a scope, but I'd rather find out what motivated the woman and what truths I can learn beyond my perspectives and make a better world through knowing more. // For that woman advocating traditional feminine roles for females, I wonder how it would have changed all our reactions to her rhetoric if she had instead said, "For women who wish traditional roles like me, I recommend that you do it with fever and love your life, family, and babies with the help of a husband with the same goals and means".
In a way, it absolutely is embracing womanhood. She also never said it's the ONLY way, so not quire sure why you would have a problem with that.
I will never not be annoyed by people telling me that I’m unnatural for not wanting marriage and kids. And yeah, conservatives, if you actually care about the traditional family structure, you should support sex education, universal healthcare, living wage, etc.
Why are u lying? And also u dont live in the real world
@@kuggacouragegx6093 The fact that you think that's a valid argument tells everyone with a brain that YOU are a liar who doesn't live in the "real world". So tell me, how does it feel to have negative IQ?
What's she lying about? Give me one lie
@@kuggacouragegx6093 Please enlighten us, what 'world' does she live in if not the real one?
@@faithpearlgenied-a5517?
Abby should've just delete her channel because obviously she's gaining more than her husband now. Cus no "classy woman" should do the man's job.
hahah
You can tell Abby has never eaten ramen noodles multiple days in a row or starve. Lucky
I went to a high school in a wealthy neighborhood and a lot of my friends were really rich. These kids living in houses costing like 3 million would be like "But it's not my money it's my parents money" and I, who had grown up just above the poverty line, was like yeah, it's your parents money, that they're using to pay for you to go to Harvard. Your parents money that they're paying your car insurance with. Your parents money that's going to buy you an apartment in New York City. You can't discount your class privilege just because you're not getting a cut of your parents' salary. That's the issue that a lot of people like Abby have, they don't see the fact that not everyone's families can afford to take care of them or let them live at home. I honestly doubt Abby could've supported herself on her career alone, given the fact that she's in an arts career and she's probably used to a certain kind of lifestyle, so a lot of her words here feel so empty because she has the luxury of working simply because she loves her job, and not because she has to. So much ignorance had to have gone into thinking that everyone has that option.
🙏🏼
yep. it'd be good for her to have perspective. at the same time, I assume from what you have said (not having watched Abby's video or this one entirely) that she was fortunate to pick a good situation to stay in her bubble.
While it's true life is getting expensive, you can make choices to increase the chances that you make more money and have enough money to have and raise kids. For example, there are states and cities in the U.S. that are cheaper than others. That alone makes a HUGE difference in affordability in housing and the cost of food. Selecting a higher paying job, working toward certifications, a promotion, or something along those lines makes a big difference as well; in other words, you don't even have to go to college to earn more. Ensuring to never go into consumer debt is equally as important to make a difference. My family and I survived on $60k/year growing up: SAHM, seven kids, and my dad worked 40hrs a week. It meant we had food, a roof, water, electricity, internet, clothes, a TV, and a PS2. We had two cars and furniture. I had a bike and a couple of toys. Our needs were met and we had some form of entertainment (aka some of our wants were met). My mom often times thrifted and always used hand-me downs for everything. She made sure we maintained our school supplies to avoid constantly being new markers, pencils, folders, etc. We ate at home most of the time. It is possible.
@@avapilsen Wow, good for you! Your folks scrimped away to provide for children but not everyone wants to do that. And what decade was that where your dad worked 40hrs a week and was able to provide for a household with 7 kids? Because that is not likely to happen nowadays with higher inflation and cost of living crisis, post 08 crash and covid. And are you living the life of your parents right now with 7 children of your own?... no didn't think so. So please stop.
@@evif9377 My siblings and I are between the ages of 19 and 34. I'm 24, and I still don't have any children. I was still a young child during the recession and was in college during COVID (3 of us were). It's obviously not easy to have many kids while making a slightly above average income in the US, especially nowadays. As I said, we had are needs met, used hand-me-downs, ate at home, thrifted, etc. We lived an average life growing up. It isn't as easy to do it in today's climate because life was much cheaper back then, but I also didn't make any implications that people should have plenty of kids or that women should stay at home. The point is that you can sacrifice and make deliberate choices to save more of your income.
10:45 - nailed it! I wanted to stay home with my daughter after my maternity leave was over, but financially I couldn’t. I had to work. This had nothing to do with feminism or being traditional....was based on reality of how things were in my life.
The issue I have with Abby’s narrative is where is she getting her information? Who has she talked to about these specific topics? She doesn’t strike me as the type going out and getting different opinions that differ her own.
She must have learned from her mr. Husband
yep. you're right, Laura. But, rather than lambasting her, our responses to her post can be constructive and invite her to learn about the world.
Her saying that women "choose to not get to the highest point in their job because instead they want children" is such bullish*t. Women are rejected from higher jobs and promotions because of the possibility of having children which employers believe will led to a decrease in work efficiency (also bullish*t). Its not a choice, its forced on them. I'm sure plenty of women could have highly successful careers but too often they are held back because men are chosen over women for these higher paid jobs and promotions. Thank you for making this video Rachel, some really important points of discussion here.
Also, there are women who want children and a higher career status, but find their male partner won’t step up as a coparent and with household responsibilities. Since they (quite reasonably) aren’t going to neglect the little humans in their care, the career goes to the wayside.
Abbey: "Women don't HAVE to stay at home"
Me: "So... you're a feminist"
We should shed the term "feminist" from this conversation. I believe the best brand of feminism isn't about women. It's about *people* have choice to be and pursue happiness. The very word "feminist" implies to many people, correctly or not now, that it's a war between men and women. And, to reclaim the "correct" meaning of feminism in the public sphere, I think, is nearly an impossible project and the wrong place to put one's energy into making a better world and living a happy life.
@@LeonCouch Radical Feminists (terfs) tainted the word "feminism" and reduced it to "penis bad >:(". It's a shame, considering there's so much more to feminism than that.
@@LeonCouch I used to feel that way and hate the word feminist but now a day I’ve realized that if we all cringe at the word or try to pick a new word then we are essentially losing to the people who purposely drag the word through the mud and mischaracterize what it means.. we should all start proudly embracing the word and the gains we have made since it was dreamed up. If some people have cringe ideas we see as too far or are terfs and give it a bad name we can’t let them have the title.. as far as working to help women reach equality feminism is kind of part of the package.. of young people see women and left leaning people not even getting behind it then women lose. It sends the message we don’t need it anymore or don’t want equality. I ❤ feminism because my other option is what? What other movement and group and term do I use? It is kind of all we have and not embracing sends the wrong message
She's really talking about third wave feminism. Not all are like this, but some feminists nowadays come across as man-hating women who really do shame SAHM and things like that.
@@avapilsenAn argument could be made that those shaming SAHMs are by definition not feminists. Just because they use the term feminism to describe their exclusionary ideas doesn’t mean that they’re feminists. Similar to how some antinatalists like to pretend to be pro-choice
She literally talks about not judging women and how you're not "embracing womanhood" if you have a career back to back. The hypocrisy of this woman....
As a woman of color who is American, my ancestors never had the right to be 'natural' within this society. I did research on my family tree. Got pretty far, considering that for most African Americans, records get lost. I got to around the late 1700's. After slavery, my grandmother's were farm hands and maids. That was the 'natural' for women like us at the time. I feel like when women like Abby get on to their soap box about 'what a woman should do' they are strictly speaking from their own white and wealthy corner. I'm pretty my great grandmother's would have LOVED to live in a comfortable home, with all of their needs taken cared of, and their children's needs taken cared of, with access to healthy food, clean water, great education, and not have to worry about any of it...for most women like my grandmothers, that was just a fantasy. It just irks me how women like Abby spew this narrative.
I hope you’re doing well, Rachel. ❤️ Would love to hear your thoughts on LDR’s poetry if you’re still considering talking about it!
Yes yes YES!
@@lera_vasi not ignorant at all! LDR is Lana Del Rey :)
@@lera_vasi Lana del Rey. She’s a singer and she recently published a poetry collection :)
lana de rey is the most white-teared white woman self-victimised “feminist” ever. i’m convinced she’s a covert narcissist. just wait, if rachel reviews lana del rey, i 100% guarantee that she will criticise her. because lana is a fake. lana even still follows ansel elgort (and we all know what happened with him). plus her poetry actually sucks. she never grew beyond her young teen years. i doubt she even actually reads any other poetry besides her own. i used to live lana but damn her true colours are starting to show
and halsey's!
regarding her point about the glass ceiling, there is still a glass ceiling in many places around the world there because many employers automatically assume that a women will quit her job or be less dedicated to it because she'll have kids, even though she may not even want children. some places in Asia will even push women toward quitting if they think they're at an age where they'll have children. it's astounding how Abby can't consider realities outside of her little privileged bubble.
there has been this assumption, certainly. it used to be said directly to women getting advanced degrees, as my mother had told me when she was one of the first women to get a PhD in chemistry and proved them wrong with a life-long research career. Incidentally, she raised children (obviously!) and worked part-time successfully, in my opinion. But, as fewer women have children and richer women can afford child care (compliaining the whole time), this assumption is going away in high-achieving circles, which is not the majority of people. At the same time, I've had many women cry on my shoulder once they hit their 40s without children, which younger women really should take as a serious consideration. A few women have been glad with their choices to be single and/or childless throughout their lives too, but my observation is that this is a vast minority of women. In sum, different life choices and paths are good for different people. The feminism espoused in this particular video.
So, I, a man, is unnatural since I don't want kids (for very good reasons)?
Not everyone who is capable of having children should be allowed to have children. I am, unfortunately, one of those people who wouldn't be able to treat his kids properly (no matter how much I want kids, I know I will mistreat them thus, for their safety, I can go without them).
i know right, i wish more people thought harder about having kids and their ability to raise, teach and love a separate human being. i hate how some parents project themselves onto their kids or mistreat their kids (emotionally, physically or mentally) 🥲
Me too, I'm a woman but I'd slap my kids to death if I ever had them. On top of that, I'm livin' in a garbage can so I don't want to give birth to kids in a trash country with low life expectancy.
"I is"?
@@vincesmith2499 ,
Insert "am" into the sentence.
@@vincesmith2499 obviously lacking anything of substance to contribute.
I'm still not convinced that Abbey is a real person and not just Ben in drag
Same. Even his drag is boring.
haha
Abby's argument is that women effectively have no mind of their own, their personal preferences, lifestyle choices, etc, doesn't matter. Every woman's place is to be home and have children. But not all women feel this way, just like not all men have the compulsion to defacto be the sole or even primary breadwinner for the family. I have two younger (but still adult) sisters. One wants to marry but not have kids, and the other one wants to have both. Not everyone's choices are dictated solely or even primarily by biological factors.
exactly. men feel a lot of pressure and failure in the traditional 50s model, too, esp these days.
Wft the guy on 80,000 a year must live on another planet. My husband and I barely make 20,000 a year, he is loaded.
Y'know. I am a hardcore feminist. Degree in women's studies. And at one point, all I wanted was to be a stay at home mom. Never viewed those things as conflicting.
I would legit lose my mind if i styed at home. No joke im at uni and im finishing up my masters degree and jesus christ i just wanna work. Im a mechanical engineer and im so so exited about it i have an interview coming up soon for my ideal place to work. Im gonna be so happy if i get in
Good luck! 😁
Good luck
Omg yall are so sweet 😭 thank you so much
Good luck 👍
Good luck!! 🎉✨
I don’t want this to sound rude, but I really like how you don’t make eye contact the whole video. I have social anxiety and I find it so calming to watch someone who isn’t staring into my soul for 20minutes haha
Loved the video, such good points :)
interesting feedback for the video. i'll give this some thought on how to make better videos for wide audiences.
She's right about one thing: Women naturally want to stay at home. What she fails to say is that men naturally want to stay at home too. I mean who doesn't want to spend their time under the covers eating ice cream, playing video games and watching youtube.... People with lives? Ha, we gave those things up along time ago
there's much truth to this. work sucks for most people, men or women. and, working all the time is generally not rewarding (other than financially) to most people too. this is a mistake made by some brands of feminism as well as many conservatives too.
That and crafters of the past typically did work in their own homes. Men weren't the main earners, they worked with their wives more often than not. It isn't "natural" for women to sit inside with 10 babies while men travel 20 or more miles a day to sit in a box and mingle with other identical men in suits lol.
Lmao, right?! My fiance and I are expecting our first. I love my job and he hates his. He would LOVE to be a stay at home dad and do all the cooking and house chores, but my income isn't high enough for that. My career does have a lot of growth potential, so we see that as a possibility down the line. Either way, if anyone ends up being a stay at home parent, it's going to be him.
The fact that Abby is a young woman and is feeding into such old class standards that people in her grandmothers age were already fighting for. It’s just sad that young people like here want to bring back old standards that don’t even benefit her..
Wait until she's old and her husband is leaving her for another woman. Lots of women ended up in this situation where they either have a sham marriage or you get tossed aside once you are no longer pretty to look at.
This is such a strawman. I've never seen a feminist shaming someone for staying at home, I've only seen conservatives say they do because they don't want to say "women should stay at home and not have a job bc that's a women's job, but that's not acceptable to say now so imma just go for this argument."
Well tbh I've seen some but these were extremely radical and pretty rare ones.
you're completely full of bull dung. "i've never" and "i've only" are key manifestations of "i'm a liary" or "i'm so ignorant"
@@RobertMJohnson there's always gonna be rare extremists but that doesn't change the fact that we still need anti misogyny. Aka feminism.
@Faraway - imagine beliving that being strong and independent is only for men..
Nah I think they do exist. TERFs and other radfem types are prime example although they definitely aren't as vocal these days as they used to be and aren't a representation of feminism as a whole which alot of conservatives believe.
Can't people literally just mind their own business?
The thought of carrying on the way she does, sticking my nose into other people's perfectly happy lives makes me cringe so violently. It's unthinkable to me.
Unless someone asks me to involve myself or needs my help. That would be the only exception.
It makes me so angry, the actual audacity of people like Abby. How dare they? What I do or don't do with my uterus or my life is nobody's business but mine.
I'm sorry, rant over 😂🤣 They just infuriate me.
Also, wilfully misunderstanding the fundamental concepts of intersectional feminism, these people ooooofff 😑🤣
it's a good point, applicable to people from all sorts of persuasions.
That's completely ideal a person that respects other's boundaries. Many do not follow this unfortunately.
It’s really annoying that these “trad wives” flippantly claim that you could be a stay at home mom if you’re just frugal. That’s not realistic for many families. And you bring up a great point with the state of the economy and how it doesn’t usually allow for families to live off of one income. I doubt that’s a point that they’ve never entertained. There’s so much perceived persecution with these christian trad wives. The evil feminists aren’t plotting to brainwash them into working and becoming “masculine.”
It used to be really common for women to take on laundry and housework jobs to make ends meet, even as married women with children. My own great grandmother left home as a teenager when she was hired on as a maid for another household.
all these things are true. the traditional wives feel under constant attack from our entire culture, even when we say we are open minded individuals and they, like the woke, are trying to creating a community with likeminded individuals in a public forum at the cost of their opponents. And, often they state too large a scope for their personal and community values, like the woke and nearly everyone does. if it works for me, it works for everybody else, right? ;)
Not to mention that it isn't good for the partner's mental health if they are the only one providing .... both partners have to give and protect etc.
Who wants to be frugal?
@@LeonCouch
It's the tradcon wives that are constantly attacking successful educated women for choosing career and autonomy. It as if the tradcons want all women to be miserable if they are
The guy earning over 80,000p and saying he's not in the 5% literally just reminded me of the comedy sketch "but steel is heavier than feathers"
I died when everyone in the audience stopped supporting him and started murmuring "um yeah you are in the 5% actually"
@@alexandria8116 So why does he owe people free stuff just because he makes decent money? I disagree with Rachel. People who want to help the poor can give to charity. It shouldn't be government's role.
@@vincesmith2499 I mean I disagree and don't feel it's about owing neccessarily but more about wealth distribution being better over all but also my comment didnt say he did owe anyone anything just that it was funny he insisted he was not in the top 5% when he actually was and the audience realizing that was funny also.
I'm reminded of a quote and something else that I read a while back.
Rocket Raccoon: Why would you want to save the galaxy?
Peter Quill/Star-Lord: Because I'm one of the idiots who live there!
The other thing I read was something about taxes for schools in a particular community. One person was saying something along the lines of "I don't have children, why should I support this tax? I don't personally benefit from it in any way." The other person responded that he didn't have kids either, yet he still supported the tax. Why? Because he lived in that community. Because educated kids turn into adults who make better choices and better decisions and make this world a better place to live in. This always stuck with me.
The USA is a prime example of the me, me, me focused way of living and mindset. One single accident, a possible cancer diagnoses, it takes so very little to take someone from middle class with savings, to broke, living from paycheck to paycheck, possible homelessness, possibly not even being able to afford treatment.
"So why does he owe people free stuff just because he makes decent money?" is the exact reason our healthcare system is what it is. Because if one single person gets help who you think doesn't deserve it, then the whole system must be trash right?
The ironic thing is the benefits of taking care of your community far outweigh the costs; even if, occasionally, a person who doesn't deserve help gets it.
@@byMidnyt The guy who supports the tax is free to donate money to the schools. People who support funding for PBS and the arts are free to donate part of their paychecks to those things. There's no need to force the unwilling to do so via taxes.
Tbh I don’t think I’d be unhappy as a stay-at-home dad
It's all about choice my dude. If you are happy that way then good for you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
greattt!
some men like it and some don't. and, the interesting thing to me is that men's opinions on this can change through different stages of life.
She's so bad.
You can tell she is Ben Shapiro's sister.
They both have the same horrendous takes.
Oh i didn't know she was a Shabibo. But it doesn't surprise me.
You're exaggerating.
i am so glad everyday there are less and less people like this. being a feminist during times when this was the common way of thinking must have been awful.
Not me hiding the fact that I was a liberal feminist during the 2016 anti sjw phase because I didn’t want to be harassed by edgelords and lumped in with leftist extremes
I come from a working class family and your words resonated with me so much. I think privilege makes people live in a bubble. I am a DIY musician and entrepreneur with two active not music related projects living in a third world country. I basically have three jobs and take anything I can in between so I can survive! How can someone tell me to just don't work anymore? The delusion!! That honestly bothered me. Great video by the way!
My husband have simmilar problem with not seeing his privilage. He kept saying that they are poor. Why? Because his family werent able to finish their new house with cash in just few years 🤦♀️ sorry baby but if your family is able to built a new house with cash, even if it takes more time than you expected, then youre not poor!
Appealing to nature has to be the weakest argument to tell someone to live or not live a certain way.
Oh one day a teacher (in my master in psychotherapy class) said that women working were to fault for wages being so low, because more people working meant bosses could lower wages and people would still want the work. I love how she decided to blame women and feminism instead of blaming the corporations for abusing the position they are in
Y'all heard how quiet everyone got in that room when that man said he made above 80,000 pounds 💀💀💀💀
That was gold! Before that everybody cheered for him thinking he's another one of the working class just trying to get by
"Don't force women into careers, we should be able to choose to stay at home >:c Women wanting careers is unnatural anyway."
How does she feel about her brother being married to a doctor? Is this like a subtweet?
Also a fact I learned from Vlogbrother's years ago - if you have $1000 in your bank account, you are above the global average in wealth.
That woman at 25 minutes in said the people telling her to get a job said "you can't stay here forever" are we sure the people telling at her weren't her parents?
Ugh.. Abby... I've done response videos to some of her stuff.
I'm so fed up with people who do not understand feminism. Yes! I agree, it means equality & justice for everyone & allowing people to choose what they want to do with their lives. I think people just want to blame women for problems. I'm getting really annoyed by it.
Thank you for doing this video! ❤
it's not that they don't understand it. they're grifters, they misrepresent it to strawman it. that's the entire career of people like Abby, Ben, Dave Rubin, The Quartering, etc etc etc.
Few legitimately don't understand it, like Tim pool.
@@tugger as if you can possibly represent all forms of feminism into one essentialized description. You probably straw man those people more than they strawman
I think it's unfortunate how polluted (for lack of a better word) the feminist movement has become.
@@j.c.2240 That is the _real_ problem. Modern, 3rd and 4th wave feminists have peed in the feminism pool and tainted it for everyone, here and forever after. Unfortunately , you can't put that genie back in the bottle.
Some people just don't want to be associated with man-haters because the unfortunate truth is, while not all feminists hate men, all man-haters identify as feminists. Whether they are "true" feminists is a different question, but when all of them seem to identify as feminists, it's easy to see why some women might want to distance themselves from the term. After all, you don't really need a label to stand for equal rights.
Im maybe two thirds through your video, and you're speaking about people who are well-off but don't believe they're rich. To be honest my dad, I've come to learn, and people from my family are fairly well-off compared to some of my friends. I had bigger Christmases, I had dinner with the family almost every night, my mom bought the candy bar at the counter just cuz I asked. My point is, I viewed how I grew up as normal. Like everyone had things I did. I'm learning to really appreciate and acknowledge the privileges I have.
Same. I didn't even realize how great my childhood and parents were until I got older. It's easy to take things for granted when we lack perspective.
This is my experience as well. Grew up upper-middle-class and was taught anyone who tried got to be in that group. Then the owner of my dad's company died and despite having been VP he and everyone else was cut out of the deal when the owner's brother completed the deal. My dad tried his own business which did okay at first, but this was the start of the recession of the 2000s. We stayed comfortable, but it showed me that things can go sideways really fast. After dad died in 2007 everything went to shit. My mom had us sign over his life insurance under the idea that she'd hold onto it if we needed it. This is after him telling me he needed to change his will because he didn't want any of it going to her. They'd sold our home and had planned to divide the profits, but my mom kept it all. It made him worried she'd "sit on her ass and not help us with anything". She'd moved back in with us too which was a nightmare.
I had been dealing w/undiagnosed illness that is also disabling. Long story short I became a camgirl because it was the only thing that I could do around my illness and met some of my needs to pay medical bills (At the time around 50k) and keep a roof over my head. My mom had previously kicked me out (this time) for"faking" my illness(I do now have a dx of Ehlers-Danlos w/vascular involvement). I could hardly keep my head above water and even became homeless at one point.
Despite how traumatic a lot of this was, I can't tell you how thankful I am to have had these experiences in hindsight. It completely changed my worldview about everything. I had this idyllic, rose-tinted view of the American Dream that was not at all founded in reality, but privilege. At the same time, I was taught that caring about the suffering of others is a chump move and that you can't care about all the hardships of the world without cost to your mental health. That may have some basis in reality, but it's not ethical or moral imo. Especially when it comes to blaming others for their own failures while completely ignoring why those failures happen. The reality is that MOST people struggle at some point and we shouldn't need to experience those struggles to have compassion for them. Things like empathy, equity, and harm reduction should be the basis of our morality.
It's also really depressing that these kinds of people are who are making our laws and working for our government. These are usually people who have had the means to get good educations, often even bribing their way into top schools. Almost the entirety of the conservatives are extremely privileged educated, able-bodied, Christian white men who have financial abundance. The left used to be like that, but it seems to be changing for the better. These folks are not living in the same reality as the rest of us.
This became an essay. I blame COVID for the extreme boredness that has led to me leaving novels all over the internets.
It's not just that you might have had bigger or more things. You didn't have worry about food, housing, etc., pervading your family life and driving your day-to-day choices.
I remember once a friend of an ex of mine said that she blamed feminism for the reason she had to work and I was a bit flabbergasted by it. Like, pretty sure feminists (the good ones anyway) would rather we didn't live in a capitalistic society.
I would like to say: As someone who was born and raised privileged, it's REALLY hard to recognize that you are privileged. Very, VERY hard to recognize it.
The "natural" way to live is as hunter-gatherers.
And the ironic thing in hunter gather societies is that men and women tend to share childcare in a 50/50 split
Who decided that hunting and gathering is our true nature, what about before that, what about feeding through chemosynthesis off of hydrothermal vents at the bottom of the ocean like our ancestors did . thats pretty natural and doesnt even require a party of 2 to survive off of
@@thebeanlife4409 hydrogen atoms floating in the void
@@Anasteroiddestroyer And women did not just stay in caves, lol.
Classically Abby feels like if Phyllis Schlafly attempted a "How do you do, fellow young ladies" approach.
She does know that a lot of feminists are mothers, right?
why is everyone so scared to say that feminism is about women? it most definitely is and for a good reason.
@kanuk the hunter put a man in a room full of women - he’s in heaven... put a woman in a room full of men - shes scared for her life
Not everyone is ment to be a mom my mom didn’t have a menterntl bone in her body and always resented having the responsible of me and my brother
Haha same my mom was good being a stepmom to a teenager but she had no real interest in the whole birth thing and the aftermath, I was an accident.
My dad once said that if he wasn’t completely sure at the time that I would have blonde hair and blue eyes, he would have told her to abort me, she might gladly have done so.
Also wow Abby really seems to ignore a huge subset of feminist argument that looks at how "women's work" is consistently undervalued or treated as something that shouldn't be 'commodified' because it's so natural or inherent or whatever, leaving women expected to pick up more than their share of this work, and underpaid when childcare, housekeeping or emotional labor are their literal paid job.
Ugh. I stayed home years ago ( I'm a grandmother now). It was a mistake. Sure, I enjoyed my child, but in the long run it wasn't the right choice for me. But that was the option my formern religion gave me as acceptable.
I'm sorry to hear this. And, it's good for people to hear your personal experiences of the past.
@@LeonCouch thank you for the kind response. Life experience is all I have to offer lol.
PS I have a great job now!
@@zeldamorgan9260 lovely! and, congrats. I hope to hear everyone in the future reporting of their steps forward to individual as well as collective happiness and meaning.
@@LeonCouch I certainly support anyone who can and wants to be a sah parent, but the reasons and situations really need to be examined prior. The social, personal and economic impacts can be irreversible
I had the displeasure of dealing with SEVERAL women who talk like Abby does. They were all smug and patronizing up on their ‘natural’ pedestal until their husbands kicked that pedestal out from under them and divorced them for younger women. All of a sudden they had bills to pay and mouths to feed and NO income to do this with.
Spoilers! They also wound up dependent on the social welfare programs they’d spent their lives fighting to abolish.
I am a feminist and a stay at home mom. In reality of my home situation it would be financially detrimental for me to have a job because we only have one car which my husband uses for work and I would just be working to cover the cost of day care.
Also some people are not made to be stay at home parents. This shit can be crazy difficult mentally emotionally and physically and some people are just better suited for working life
seems like a very reasonable assessment for you, and the second paragraph is certainly true for people (men & women). i'm glad it's working for you all.
That's really weird, because her mom was really successful in the film industry.
If not for feminism, she wouldn't even be able to make videos like this
I hope you’re doing well Rachel!! I love your videos. And I think you hit the nail on the head with a lot of your points. I personally agree that there are women that may feel guilt for not wanting to work/stay at home, but as you pointed out I think Abby is misinterpreting *where* the guilt and shame may be coming from. It’s not from feminism, it’s society at large making them feel like they’re useless if they don’t work. (And without an income then yeah...you may literally be *financially* useless) I feel that way sometimes.
I have struggled with this because I *do* want to stay at home and I do feel guilty for wanting that. I am a home body, I feel most comfortable working on my own...I plan on having one kid and maybe adopting later in life and I’d love to be there for them. So yes, I would say I would be very happy being a “stay at home mom”. But at the same time I am [will be] so much more than a mom. I am also an artist and have the luxury of creating my art at home, so I make a very modest income from selling my art online and at fairs/conventions and such. THAT’S the kind of work that fits me best, but the work doesn’t (yet) support me alone, let alone support my boyfriend or any potential children. So until my art career takes off, which it may never, I NEED a “job” job where I leave my house for “real” work. So you’re totally right, even for me, someone who knows exactly what she wants and what she needs to be happy (and that includes staying home) I literally can’t because of how our society and capitalism works.
My boyfriend works at Amazon to survive but I know he absolutely hates it and wishes he could work from home too. It’s truthfully not just a women/men/gender roles thing, it’s just a personality/skills thing that applies to all people and I also wish sometime in the future we could approach topics based on peoples’ skills and brains instead of their assigned gender roles. For example men getting shit on for not working/being the breadwinner or...you know basically any house spouse gets looked down upon in some way or another.
But this pandemic has also inspired a lot of epiphanies for some people I think, I have talked with so many people who realized they love the lifestyle of working from home, and others who hate it because they prefer more human contact or have a hard time focusing at home. So everyone is different and I think embracing feminism can help all people thrive.
Sorry for rambling but I just never have an outlet for these discussions so thank you for inspiring thought ❤️
I love how you include non-binary and trans people in the conversation when you talk about gender equality! Surprisingly few people do that, and it feels nice to be acknowledged ❤️
Thank you for this informative take on lower income people and their choices or lack thereof! I also grew up in a low income/impoverished situation. Most people who end up making youtube a career did not come from these backgrounds, and I think it’s SO important that people be educated about what it’s like to not be income secure. Thank you thank you! It’s so validating to have representation online
21:50 - This thing of *women* ""choosing"" family over career reminded me a lot of this amazing book, "Kim Ji-young, Born 1982". Is not a perfect book by any means, but it makes a great point when it comes to women feeling like they should stay at home because society believes so.
You have to put the trash in the trash can
I can't believe that trash book spread throughout the western world
unrelated but i would LOVE to hear you do another song lyric analysis of some sort, especially by artists who are praised for their writing, like lana, taylor, lorde, etc..
"Baby flavored ice cream"
*Isabella's lullaby starts playing in the background*
Is that a "The Promised Neverland" reference
@@gaesimp__ yes probably
@@gaesimp__ yeah!
@@susannaaleksanyan1235 :D
The talk of income inequality is something i have seen first hand as well. I've had a couple bosses in the past that made well into 6 figures, had nice homes, sometimes had a summer home, never had a car more than 6 years out of date, took vacations around the world... and i would still have to hear them talk about their financial troubles. They would complain about employees working over time or asking for a raise or an extra week of paid vacation. Meanwhile their employees are driving busted cars, driving without car insurance because they cant afford it, and applying for food stamps. Im sorry but if you are taking 3 trips to Europe every year, for weeks at a time, you are not having financial problems. And if you are it really is your own fault.
I think this also relates to how people like Abby benefit from feminism. The traditional role is what she asking others to aspire to, it is not something she is doing herself. Having a platform, education and even bank account is because of feminism and because of it giving her a choice to do so.
I dunno what you’re going on about, she’s highly qualified in this sort of thing. Her brother’s wife *is a doctor* after all.
😂😂
😂
How many times have I heard dads complain that they don’t get enough time with their kids? MANY MANY TIMES!
Yes!!!! It takes a lot of priviledge to believe everyone can afford to be a stay at home Mom.
I've always wondered: If a 'traditional' wife or husband became injured or disabled & unable to fulfill their 'traditional' roles of either primary earner or primary homemaker -What if one of them were to die? -Just go out & get another one?
I remember my Dad complaining about the income tax. Since my family's divorce and his re-marriage, he's essentially been financially supporting three households (my mum's, his, and his wife's entire family back in the Philippines). I've always identified as living a well-off middle class life. Even when we were kicked out and had to move back to our old neighbourhood living on under £12000 a year, reliant on the income from selling our possessions on eBay, eating the cheapest frozen foods we could (which we didn't notice because we love those foods so for us it was like treat day every day) and having to be sat down and given the "we might have to move out in the next couple months if I can't find another job contract" talk. Even as my mum got lucky with eventually finding a job and started earning over £12000 a year, our old money habits (only eating out or getting take away once a month on average, not doing any activities outside the house unless it's free or someone else is paying, not asking for expensive presents every birthday, not going on holiday, buying most of my clothes from charity shops, repairing clothes to keep for longer and wearing hand me downs, don't opt to waste our money on the lives of pets instead of the lives of family members, etc.)
I was persistently bullied and targeted with assault and harassment by children who thought I was a tory / posh because of the accent I have (which was indoctrinated into me, along with believing that there is a "correct" way to speak / write english which I am now slowly deconstructing as I recognise how ridiculous those teachings in that school before the divorce were) and the fact the
I used to have an MD who earned about £60,000 per year, and we operated nationwide. Most people in the country can barely afford a mortgage let alone get by. I do think most rich people do know, they just don't care about the suffering of other's.
It’s almost like Abby is trying way too hard to be “one of the boys”... it’s a whole different breed of “I’m not like other girls”
Abby looks exactly like Ben in a wig. It's spooky how similar they are.
I think she's in her early twenties through.
Great video, I love that you're going back to your roots while still experimenting. It's amazing to see how far you've come! 👍
Oh gosh I thought she was in her early 30’s...oops 🤭
shes 27 and shes a scorpio!
Problem is that there are weirdos that believe basically anything under the sun, and with tools like Google they aren't hard to find if you go actively looking for them...
It's so common for people to be out of touch, it's really heartbreaking. I often feel like those who make even just 50k a year don't realize how astronomically well off they really are. I'm a college student who works very hard to earn 10k a year and have to live with multiple friends to be able to afford rent. It often feels like people with more money hear that people are suffering, but it just goes in one ear and out the other. It's like they don't even believe us, because they are so far removed from our situation.
My ex, a cishet guy, didn't want to have kids until his 40s because he wanted to retire early and be a full-time dad 🤷🏼♀️
that's cool
Kyra reminds me so much of my Staffy! They’re such good doggos 🥺 My good boy loves watching your videos with me!
Conservatives: "facts don't care about your feelings"
Also conservatives: "feminism is wrong because I feel bad for not opening doors it has unlocked for me"
Us: Abby, you are privileged
Abby: No, no.. you are brainwashed into thinking I am privileged.
it makes me so unreasonably upset that i can’t make her content stop
That's not unreasonable. Anyone with actual standards will want this toxicity shut down.
When I reviewed this Classist Abby video, my take was that feminism’s goal is that women who choose to work outside the home (or who must out of necessity) can do so and be treated fairly there -- and that women who choose to and are able to make housekeeping their jobs be treated fairly there too.
the thing about classically abby is that the minute she starts talking, you think, "ok ok I see your point, this is good" and then 2 minutes later (or less) you think "oh no. oh NO"
i think "yes! yes! yes!" while she speaks.
Imagine earning 80k and thinking youre just an average bloke....
The thing that kills me is that they often use the word choose when in reality they only want women to choose one type of life. I have been a stay at home mom for the majority of my parenthood and I enjoy it but it is hard work and it is not for everybody. I would never tell another person how to live their life and tell them that my choice is the only correct one. That’s insanity!
My mom is a working woman and I would never say that she wasn't a good mom. She had a choice not to work but she felt satisfied by doing her job.
My mom is my bff and my inspiration.
She is the strongest women I have ever met in my life.
My mom has taught me that being financially independent is very important as it gives you power to say no in many situations and make your own choices.