Great video for newbies. I have been using a Trangia burner setup with and without the cooking setup for years and have had excellent results. The six minute mark is generally were I would say you will end up at and your weight calcs are good. The Trangia is a little heavier but bomber in rough conditions and with the wind screen, base and pots it is bulky and heavy but a great system overall. I'm not interested in shaving oz. on certain items. Shug was a huge help for me when I was getting started. The big difference, for me, is that you'll never have to raise your voice when doing a video with an alcohol stove. The couple extra minutes for the water boil is not a deal breaker for me.
Tayson, you need to provide at least a 1/4" gap between the windscreen and pot to allow the heat to rise and efficiently heat the pot. Doing this will greatly decrease your boil time. Thanks for sharing.
alcohol all the way for me. i don't mind waiting a few minutes more, and i like the silence. Enjoy a holy moment and listen to the birds while you wait.
Absolutely. Why is anyone in a rush in the backcountry? Only time I rush is if I want to stop for a coffee, but the extra five minutes helps me rest and look around. I make pot cozy for my pots to sit around them while I cook, so it actually helps boil time. A bottom and top cap also helps when rehydrating food inside, or to keep a tea brew going longer for a stronger infusion.
One other point is that it is generally a lot easier to get your hands on Alcohol fuel than gas cans, i know this will be dependent on where you live but in Europe hardware shop, chemists, decorators shops and camping/outdoors shops will all sell Alcohol (or some version of it) gas cans you are pretty much restricted to outdoors shops.
It all depends on the alcohol stove you use. I use a Zelph Fancy Feest stove, and I don't have to wait for it to warm up. It can be lit with the pot on it and starts heating the water immediately. Still takes 4.5 to 6 minutes to boil 2 cups of water depending on altitude/temperature/etc. I have canister stoves too, but find I use my alcohol stove pretty much every time. There's something about being able to wake up in the morning, get a cup of tea going, and not hearing the jet engine sounds a canister stove makes. I like the quiet. I'm not in a hurry to boil water. I have a Jetboil too, but haven't used it in years. It's a piece of gear that pretty much only gets used when I loan it out to friends. Sure, it was neat to be able to boil 2 cups of water in under 2 minutes ... but at some point it occurred to me that I'm just not in a hurry when I'm on the trail. It's not like you don't have to wait for your food to re-hydrate. There was no point in being faster, and once I realized that wasn't important to me anymore, I started to really appreciate the quiet of an alcohol stove. The other parts I really like are: - It's much easier to see how much fuel you have left. - You can adjust the size of fuel container you are using. For a 3-day trip, I may only take 4 ounces of fuel. You don't have that option with a canister. - I can find yellow HEET pretty much anywhere. Hardware stores. Walmart. Walgreens. It's very easy to find, and works great. It's also less than $1.50 for a 10 oz bottle. That's a fraction of the price of what canister fuel costs. I gave alcohol stoves a "try" a couple years ago just wondering what it would be like ... and was a quick convert. It's pretty much the only thing I use now.
That priming trick with that Vargo is a must. In playing with mine, I found a difference of well over 10 minutes to bloom time without getting some heat under it. Once bloomed, I can often get up to 2 cups boiled in about 6 to 7 minutes. Not as fast as a Super Cat and other Alkies, but I found the trade-off to be in fuel efficiency. Believe it or not, while I usually start out with about an ounce or a bit more, I usually end up with about half an ounce leftover. That may be due to the more stable and sturdy folding aluminum windscreen I use with mine, also from Vargo. It hugs the Toaks 700 pot I used with it snugly, trapping heat close to pot bottom while still vented to allow air exchange. Unfortunately, I also had a mishap with mine recently. I made the grave mistake of using mine a little too close to a new tent and a gust of wind was just strong enough to push the flames out through the windscreen and actually melted some holes into some of nooseeum mesh of my tent. So...lesson learned, and I'm now in the process of getting it repaired by replacing the damaged mesh panels with new ones to be sewn in.
You are not the only person I've seen with a review like this, Gas Canister stove Vs Alcohol Fuel stove. Firstly with everyone I just don't get the weight comparison at all. When there is a few Oz/Grams in weight difference it is so negligible it's ridiculous. Secondly, when I am out in the woods, or a hillside, I am there to relax and chill out. I don't have only an hour or 2 and need my water to boils in 2 mins, I'm there to relax and chill out. I find it much more relaxing with the fuel stove gently boiling my water, pretty much silently, rather than the peace and quiet obliterated by what sounds like a rocket about to take off. I just don't understand the way people go mad for the Jet Boil. I have a Fire Maple, and don't get me wrong it's a great stove, but I hardly ever use it as I just don't like the noise, it gives me a headache. If there is wind forecast I may take the Fire Maple to cook quicker, but very rarely. A real fire or the alcohol/gel stove for me
I also use a fire maple, much more than my fancy feast stove. The ability to turn off the fire with a knob makes a lot of sense to me in an environment as flammable as colorado
Great job. Comparison videos are so educational. I love penny stoves, and have probably made over 100 myself, experimenting with the design. I've found three factors that makes big differences: 1) The fuel. I personally like HEET in the yellow bottle as it boils the fastest and cleanest and doesn't deposit as much soot on my pots. It's a little more expensive than rubbing alcohol, but given it boils water faster means less of it is required which translates to cost and weight savings. I saw someone comment that it was poisonous, but so is white and unleaded gas which people use in multi-fuel stoves. I don't know that it's an issue given the HEET is vaporized and virtually all the fuel burns away. 2) The number of jet holes affects boil time. I've made stoves with 12, 16, 18, and 20 holes, and the 20 hole boils water the fastest because well, you have more fire heating your pot. 3), The height the pot is above the jets. The optimal I've found is to have the jets 1" below my pot. That way the flames have enough room to blossom and get enough oxygen to burn the hottest. If you go higher you get too much ambient air temp cooling the flame, and too close doesn't give the flame enough time to mix with the oxygen in the air and doesn't burn as hot. 4) Something I've found when making penny stoves is the size of the can doesn't matter. I've made stoves from 24oz Arizona Tea cans, 12 oz Coke cans, and 8 oz Coke cans, and my favorite is the 8oz. It's lighter, takes up less space, and fits perfectly in a Fancy Feast cat food can to help protect it. And as a bonus, you can use the Fancy Feist can as a stove as well. I use mine to instantly snuff my alcohol stove out. One thing about the smaller the stove is it needs to be a little taller to be able to hold enough fuel to cook your meal. One last thing, for my priming pan, I cut the bottom out of a coke can about 1/8" above where the can tapers and roll the edges with a pair of pliers to remove the razor edge. It's extremely light and its shape makes it crush resistant.
What's best to use depends strongly on weather conditions, particularly wind. Living in Norway, I use mostly alcohol bellow the tree line (quieter, lighter) and MSR Windburner gas stove high in the mountains (often strong winds). In the winter, wood burning to melt the snow bellow the tree line and gasoline stove above.
The BEST of anything be it a stove, tent, pack, car, bed, camera, etc. is the one that appeals to you. That's why there are multiple manufacturers. Some people like gas stoves, others like liquid stoves. Some people like Kelty, others North Face. Some people like Fords others Chevys.
These are some great points. Thanks for the info. About 2 years ago on my channel I tested 3 cheap backpacking stove varieties on how quickly they could make a closed can of coke explode. Check it out for a great alternative to the boil test.
Great DIY alternative wind screen ta boot? Thanks for seeding the mem. neurons Joe. What a beer BLEVE that was!; we as seven or so seen the one tossing the beer in the bon, but soon forgot. Lights out for a bit on a seven+ foot bon..blah blah. Many flipped themselves over backwards. ~ Squeek squeek..everyone ok? (-:
I like using both and also include a Firebox nano titanium sometimes as well. Burn twigs and sticks for free fuel. Also i think the standard Trangia works better overall as well. Good video...
I stopped messing with alcohol altogether once I got my titanium nano. Easy to get lit and you can get some coffee and oatmeal in the morning with only a handfull of sticks. For emergency I bring some fuel tabs to use on the nano's fuel plate. I have a super small alcohol stove I made from an energy drink can... but when you add the fuel for it in... it's definitely heavier and less versatile than the nano!
I really like to see how much fuel I've left, especially in colder seasons. As I'm a bit paranoid of not having means to cook I'd be taking a reserve canister always when going with a gas stove, so weight and volume would be much more than with alcohol. But that's just my personal "problem". Also on some simpler gas stoves that are common here in Germany you can not unscrew the stove part from the canister which actually forces you to bring a reserve canister unless you're 100% sure it will last. And how could I ever be, not knowing the conditions I'll encounter before? I just discovered last weekend that in extremely cold temperatures (-5...-10⁰C) gas stoves dont really work well anymore, too, unless you prewarm them. Which is not as easy as with a trangia. It also gets much harder to start a fire in these temperatures, btw. I'll stick with the alcohol, the silence it brings and the security of knowing how much fuel I have left, I guess.
I fell in love with alcohol stoves as a teenager using one to make coffee and heat up my duckblind on cold winter mornings. Now I use a little stove made from fosters cans, I notice the larger diameter can lights quicker and boils about 20% faster than a pop can stove. I'll gladly trade the boil speed of a gas stove for the silence of an alcohol burner.
@@terryshrives8322 traildesigns caldera Ti-tri inferno (burns alcohol, wood, hexamine and gel) blows the wheels off every other alcohol setup in terms of boil times but limits you to the use of a specific pot/cup you have it tailored to, so best for ultralight ‘thru-hikes’ really. But for car camping with 2 or more people or hiking less than 1-2hrs to the campsite when weight and bulk are ok then Trangia is great
There's one big practical difference with a gas burner. If you run out of gas on the trail you're going to have to light a fire, and certainly in the UK, the fuel we use (methylated spirit) is sold in more places than gas canisters so it's most likely to be able to get that rather than gas canisters, plus if a store has canisters, they have to be the type of gas canister that fits your burner. As for me, I haven't used a gas stove for backpacking since 1989 and I don't own one. What I use is basically a hobo stove made out of used food can that my cooking/boiling pot will fit inside when packed. Four holes lower down with two wire tent stakes through them for the pot support, alcohol stove below that. This means not only is the base heated, but so is the side wall of my pot, and the can is the wind shield. If I do run out of fuel, then I can use wood in it, rather than light an open fire. If I can't get more meths at my next chance of resupply, then many general small shops have block fire lighters that will work, and a simple can with a few holes in it is easy to replace if mine gets damaged, which costs nothing out of a trash can, weighs very little and makes a multi-fuel stove. Alcohol burners are silent, always work because there's nothing to go wrong. They can work at far lower temperatures than gas (if you keep your fuel warm in the burner or a small fuel bottle in a pocket close to your body). When it gets to below freezing temperatures, gas canister pressure goes down so it's just a small flame at best. Pre warming a gas canister doesn't last long either.
The efficiency of an alcohol burner is dependent on proper ventilation between the windscreen and the pot. It is also dependent on the distance from the top of the burner to the bottom of the pot. I have found the "sweet spot" to be 1" to 11/4". The Toaks siphon burner is one of the best commercially available burners. The Lixada knockoff is just as good, cheaper and larger than the Toaks. After you recover any excess fuel from the burner, light it to burn off the residual. Sure, a little waste and longer boil times. No need to rush when out in nature. The simplicity and the silence are well worth the trade off. Thanks for sharing. Love all of my OV equipment!
Don't forget, no off switch on the alcohol. So many places under fire restrictions will not allow their usage. Whereas the canister stove has off switch = allowed. Always verify fire restrictions before you go!
I get the regulations. If allowed and you do use an alcohol burner/stove you should always have a way to snuff it quickly. I use the bottom of a Red Bull can about 1.25" to snuff my Toaks Siphon burner. It works great. Your burner may require a taller, larger snuffer. Trangias usually come with a snuffer.
Huge fan of alcohol for years now. Trangia has been my goto, love telling an old story about racing my buddies old MSR wisper lite to see who could get a boil first. Alcohol works fine in many conditions, especially if you combine it with the wind screen. Thanks for trying to get some converts into the alcohol arena.
I have both types of stoves and what I use depends on the trip and what fire restrictions are in effect. With Scouts and certain other groups, canister is required. During red alert fire season canister is required. Certain forest areas, canister is required. If I'm out on a solo or small group hike and I'm going to be baking, then it's the alky stove and simmer ring. Yummy muffins or brownies
For me, the alcohol setup is not really so much lighter to justify choosing it over the gas one. Especially since I find the gas burner a lot more efficient, I can increase or decrease heat power exactly as I need it; the alcohol flame is just not controllable enough for me. Besides, I just don't like the idea of carrying liquid fuel. Accidentally spilling it would mean you've lost your fuel, which won't happen with solid fuel or gas. For me, it's either gas or solid fuel. Or simply a pot stand over a small wood/twig fire.
Not for nothing, but going through all this for an ounce of weight one way or the other? All things considered, I go with the alcohol, and the emergency backup is an esbit with a few fuel tabs -- that's in the belt pouch for emergencies anyway, so I don't count it it trade-off weight. As for the gas stoves? I use them in the shop to make tea . . on the trail I don't want the noise, and once a can is empty, you're zipped. If I run out of alky, I can whip out the esbit folder and light a tab. If I run out of tabs I can burn sticks and pine cones in it. Even better, I try not to get in that kind of fubar state and if I run out of fuel I drive to the nearest diner and order some hash and eggs.
How did you smother the flame on the Vargo? A Trangia is easy. Thx for taking time to post. I like and appreciate anyone who takes the time to save me from having to do the experiment.
Good video. I had this debate with myself about one year ago. Here is my thought process: (spoiler alert- I never use canister stoves anymore) The BRS titanium canister stove weighs less than an ounce and is on Amazon for around $15. This is the canister stove I own. However I use an alcohol stove about 90% of the time. My alcohol stove is a Minibull Designs wick stove and weight about half an ounce (awesome stoves that have remote fuel so you can add fuel while the stove is still lit without dying) Alcohol produces fewer BTUs of heat than canister stoves, so the longer the trip the more fuel you need for an alcohol stove. Running the numbers for me I found that alcohol weighs less to operate for a trip less than 3-4 days. Longer than that and the canister weighs less because you have more energy per ounce in the fuel. That being said, weight isn't my only consideration. I also like the fact that alcohol stoves don't produce the waste canisters. And I like that I can get fuel for it almost anywhere. I also like that alcohol stoves are silent so I don't disturb the peace while I'm cooking. The only time I don't use an alcohol stove is when I'm winter camping because it is more difficult to get the alcohol to vaporize enough to burn in sub zero temperatures. In those cases I use my MSR whisperlite, so still not a canister stove.
Definitely check out the minibull designs stoves. I use the choke hazard turbo and the remote gnome turbo. They are both remote fuel feed, which is awesome. I've made many alcohol stoves and also used some commercial ones. The minibull designs stoves are my absolute favorites.
I was actually looking at the choke hazard turbo. One thing I noticed is the gnome turbo has a simmer ring, I wasn't able to find a simmer ring for the choke hazard. What are the main difference between the gnome and choke hazard? Have you seen a simmer ring for the choke hazard?
Both stoves are the same diameter, so the simmer ring for the gnome should work on the choke hazard. The only difference between them is the height. I only boil water with my stoves so I've never used the summer ring, but I don't see why it wouldn't work on the choke hazard.
I'm just starting to research day/overnight hiking with a proper stove. Here's what I learned so far: I was also concerned about the landfill waste of canisters until I started learning that you can refill canisters with standard butane, which I'm guessing is fine for 3 season above 40F (Lots of RUclips videos on doing that) - otherwise my thinking is use Isobutane/Propane canisters for colder temps. In addition, as long as holes are punched into the canisters (Using either a screwdriver or the Jetboil key), the canisters can be recycled as metal so the challenge of landfill waste becomes a non-issue. I could be missing something but for us mere mortals, day hikes or overnighter's seems like it's a wash unless one is AR about shaving ounces - which I'm not.
I think, I'll test this too, but with a proper measurement. Can't help it, I'm a physicist. Gonna do this in a way that can be reproduced and upload some nice graphs hehe including temp measurements ;-D Gas stove I already have. But I'm going on a hike where I can get refills in camps, so I think it makes more sense to fill alcohol up there than a gas canister. Also, an alcohol canister seems a much lower transport risk for leakage and other accidents, just from how this is built, very generally speaking. I've used it many times but never grown too fond of liquid gas in my pack. This seems to be the safest and simplest option. Another positive aspect about it seems to be the volume. You can put alcohol in a slim bottle like this and basically stick it anywhere in your pack. That's very practical. Also, the stove is super primitive and less parts that can break. I like that about it.
As a thin sheet, titanium is a fantastic conductor of heat, so it doesn't hold heat well. Aluminum sheet, like the extremely thin metal that cat food cans are made from holds heat much better. This aids in the rapid heating of the alcohol and efficient vaporization of it, which makes for a hotter and more sustainable flame. I use a Supercat stove with a scorch plate made from an oven liner sheet, cut to the size of the rim of my Evernew 1.3 liter titanium pot (aluminum would probably heat more efficiently but is harder to clean and is heavier). With 1/2 cup of water I can usually achieve a boil within 6 minutes and flameout a minute or so later with 1/2 oz. of alcohol - great for coffee and freeze-dried food, not so much for cooking. I made a pot cozy (coozy, to some) out of an old blue foam pad and duct tape, which allows me to further hydrate (or "cook", so to speak, my food). I also can simmer, using a soda can ring, which I can slip over the stove, partially covering the burn holes, minimizing the oxygen that they can take in.
i got a secret for ya, lighter than any fuel you can think to carry... the fuel all around you !! it’s a little outside the box, but dig this. you can use fallen branches, twigs and other tinder that’s all around you to start a fire. bonus: if you’re really crazy about eliminating minute increments of weight from your backpack, leave the lighter home too! you can source a hand drill or bow drill kit from your surroundings as well. that would eliminate the lighter and the tiny amount of fuel in it !
Alcohol stove boils 0,9L water in 10-14 minutes in windy and little colder conditions (8 degrees Celsius). I use burner that has rubber seal cap to store leftover juice in the burner. Before cooking I always fill it to the max level, which gives about 30-40 min burning time. It takes time for the burner to start giving heat effectively. So, at the beginning i use the weak flame to fry some sausages and when the fire is stronger, I use it to boil. That way you get the maximum out of your alcohol stove. Other than that - gas stove is always faster. It is like comparing old car to new one. Old car is more fun, but new one is faster.
We've found another alcohol stove since filming this that does even better! It gives the pocket rocket a run for its money. Here's another video: ruclips.net/video/2H-kI7hhv_c/видео.html
Thx for sharing, chunk that one. I wanted it to work but it was a disappointment. Nothing beats a MSR pocket rocket both in boil time and fuel efficiency. I also have BRS titanium canister stove works very good and super lite. For alcohol can't go wrong with the good old Trangia. Take care bud..
Addendum to my original post when you first put this out. The trangia titanium works very well. Likely better than the Vargo. I have now used alcohol all summer but as it gets colder (especially at elevation where i am in Co) it doesnt perform a well. I think my gas stove works better in the cold.
Gas stoves don’t work well below freezing. Butane no longer vaporises below -1C and isobutane won’t vaporise below -11C. That leaves you with a small percentage of propane, about 20% of the full canister when it’s really cold. Alcohol will still work, it’s a bit harder to light it, but it will work.
I have some doubts about that specific Vargo alcohol stove, a friend of mine has it and compared to my Lixada titanium it is much slower + there is too much hassle with priming it, filling it with enough fuel, etc. As a side note - what 's wrong with sitting 10 extra minutes by a silent stove and listening to birds singing? After many years of hiking I ended up with a titanium twig stove (Vargo Hexagon) as a primary cooking device combined with alcohol stove as a backup because you can't burn wood everywhere or sometimes it is too rainy and it takes too much effort to find dry wood anyway. The good thing is that Vargo Hexagon works quite well as a windscreen for my alcohol stove.
Msr pocket rocket for me.i don’t need to worry about weight though because I’m jacked up and couldn’t do a multiple day hike lol.i wish I could though I love the vids and outdoors.
As i'm learning more about alcohol and canister gas stoves works great above 35' if temps go below 35' you need a stove that takes white gas that you can pump up your self '
It’s kinda funny ready comments from the perspective of a hunter who has to carry all the same gear but also Ammo, rifle, knife and saw for processing and what not and still not minding a few extra ounces here and there, I really love the MSR windburned set as it’s all in one and works in any wind and just about any temp.
(BASED ON 16 BOILS) 100 ml gas can is 200 grams=16 boils. 30ml of alcohol x 16 boils 16x30=480ml (480 grams) of liquid fuel vs 200 grams of gas fuel not including the weight of the liquid fuel bottle it self, totalling now over half a kilo. Gas is lighter more compact and faster to boil per 16 boils (using penny sove and methalated spirits). Alco stoves are more fun to use, but at a weight and size penalty for multi night trekking. Many youtube videos only display enough fuel for 3 boils max say, 50ml to 60 ml fuel bottle, great if your only out for the day, in which case a thermos flask would be more advantageous. To clarify I have bought a few bits of kit from Tayson over at Outdoor vitals including sleeping bags, and love his gear and love watching his RUclips cannel, it just needs some clarity to real life use for multi night trekking from my point of view.... I have several alco stoves including the Trangia, and use them often. What stove and liquid combo gives you the most bang for your buck.... thoughts ???....Thanx guys adit....My Vargo stoves also ran out of fuel before the boil could be reached. Solution to this is put it in the trash can.
With any system, there is always going to be a significant amount of heat lost due to wind. That means that your boil times are going to be longer than they should be. You need a wind screen for whatever type of stove you use. I get much better numbers with the Trangia 27 system, which has a very effective wind screen. The 27 is a bit large for long-distance backpacking but I mention it as an example. There are other wind screens that are just as effective. The point is that a wind screen is critical when you have limited fuel.
I enjoy both. But you are right about the speed - gas stoves are much faster. Note for alcohol stoves: you generally don't have a way to turn them off. You just need to let them burn the full batch of fuel each time you light it, until the fuel is gone.
Not with Trangia, as John Freivald said, just drop the closed simmer ring on top to extinguish- the fuel reservoir on my Trangia has enough for a couple of days use.
No man. All you have to do is just blow it out... but you should cover the hole so it doesn't evaporate... and put in a heavey zip- lock bag. And empty out the alcohol into the other container..
i use an aluminum can stove double walled inside a 2.5 oz titanium wood stove...acts as a wind screen and can use wood if necessary 2 ways at about 3oz plus alcohol container weight and fuel usually go with 5 hr energy for containers
Yeah I use an alcohol stove but it boils .5l in 5 minutes on .75oz of HEET alcohol. I still have my og pocket rocket and use sometimes but hate it in cold weather where you have to store the gas canister in your sleeping bag so it'll work... I guess my trusty alcohol stove will always be my go to
I bought 3 litres of ethonol at my chemicals supplier in Thailand for my stove. Couldn't buy meths anywhere. The chemist said it was safe to drink. He had so many of the plastic canisters that I thought he had a regular trade of the stuff. Where? I'm guessing the bars that are selling knock off booze. I stopped drinking but I suppose, with the right alcohol, it could serve a dual purpose. Alcohol 2 Gas 1
For me, the best stove is the one that you have, didn't cost an arm and a leg, fuel is cheap and easily accessible, does what you want it to do / fit for purpose and with which you are happy. It also depends on the Application thereof. After 70 Summers, whilst still active in the Outdoors, I'm long past the 'how fast and far can I hike in a given time' phase. I have a wide range of stoves .. Gas, Benzine, Alcohol / Gel Fuel, Solid Tabs and Wood (oh yes, Electric at home 😏). I use whatever suits the situation and the mood. Self-made Stoves and Cookware are especially satisfying in that it's nice to test, use and modify AAWR these items .. and cheap.
Having 100% isopropyl alcohol as a disinfectant or accelerant for fire starter is way more versatile than gas stoves. Dripping a small amount of alcohol on moss makes a good compress or way to reduce fever, etc.
I'm a beginner as well and appreciate the info:) I've blown a ton of money trying different things. Then, I started looking at RUclips LOL, I have the kinda new toaks stove now I haven't really tested but if it works it'll be pretty nice I think and the wind screen seconds as a wood burner. so if I run out of fuel we'll still have some options. Thanks for the video! it was helpfull... I was still considering the gas burner, for now I guess I'll not worry about it too much
I am new to your site. I started with the MSR firefly went to a Jetboil then now a pocket rocket fan. Question I have, since I climb altitude, Which works best at altitude...say above tree line? 10k + also which is better in cold weather..say low 30's? My Jetboil can boil cups n 90 seconds at sea level it seems. Not tested both side by side yet. Liking your stuff so far. Thanks for your input!
In the low 30's either an alcohol stove or a gas stove should work fine at altitude. If you go much colder than that, there's potential for some types of fuel for gas stoves to not function very well.
The only reason you time isobutane stoves is to gauge your fuel consumption. With an alcohol stove you know it pretty much takes 1 oz for a two cup boil. Like others have said, stoves like Fancee feast don’t need to be primed.
Boiling gives you a convenient stopping point for measuring when to stop. Does one have to boil water for every meal? We can’t eat food at 212 degrees F, 100 degrees C. We might improve our decision with some discussion about, “How hot is hot enough?” Another question, “How long to cook water is too long?”. Is 4 mins extra too much? Are we toddlers, such that we NEED instant gratification? If we had a stove that cooked our water to boil instantly, is that the standard we hope to achieve? Another question, is lighter weight better? Might there be other considerations? Safety? Weather, wind, rain, ice, snow…altitude? Pack space requirements? Shape? I’m hungry, waaaaaaa!!!
Give this a thought:Purchased Trekmate cook system( a trangia knockoff,),15 $.Bought remote gas canister (also knockoff)25$.So far 40$ in,am happy so far.The Trekmate burner they send should be replaced,but have both styles of cooker,windproof,and 40$ instead of 150$ with Trangia.LITTLE less quality,works well,good price break!
Get a jetboil, this will boil water mega fast and save gas due to being very efficient, meths stove can save weight for 1/2 days but in practice its not great if windy, cold and not fast and you can't control the heat. You can also refill gas canisters so you can take what weight of gas you require before going out. Cheers
I don’t need an answer, I already have it - alcohol stoves are the way to go. Unless you’re in a bike packing divide race, I see absolute no reason for anyone being in a rush in the backcountry - just enjoy the outdoors over your silent stove. Kojin DIY stove and stormin stove cone. Light yet safe - untipabble stove, you can smother out with lid, or adjust the flame. Stormin cone is easy to diy, you can Mel it custom to a specific pot with just about any metal sheet and tin snips or going to a shop with the design drawn to be cut by others. Stormin cone can serve as pot stand and PERFECT windshield. Or you can use hardware cloth, that thin metal mesh, to make a pot stand. I use a Powerade bottle for my alcohol carrying, because it doesn’t drip and get dirty with its nice cap, and it has a plastic thst goes over the cap to prevent evaporation and contaminating your pack. I still place both alcohol stove and bottle in plastic bags or it will still evaporate and if inside the pot - you will taste it.
I've performed a straight-across comparison between an alcohol stove and an isobutane stove. The conditions were identical with carefully measured water (I used a scale.) I also did it indoors and ensured both stoves started the water at the same temperature. I measured the temperature throughout the test with an immersion thermometer. No windscreen was used on either because there was no breeze. I measured (in grams) the amount of fuel used. I did let the alcohol stove warm up before I started the timer. I used a Stanley pot for both tests. It took the alcohol stove 22:34 minutes to bring 16 oz. of water to a rolling boil and used 32 grams of denatured alcohol. The gas stove took 3:24 to bring the same water to a rolling boil (I turned it on about 90% of full-open), and it only used 12 grams of fuel. Minus the fuel, the gas stove weighs a fraction of what the alcohol stove weighs and is still several ounces less with equal amounts of fuel. This is because the gas efficiency is much higher than the alcohol. The alcohol stove I used is probably not the best one for such a test. I used the Keweis Outdoor Portable stove. (smile.amazon.com/dp/B07NXY47BH?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details - not an affiliate link as I don't recommend this stove) Your alcohol stove is much lighter, so the comparison would be more favorable for the alcohol stove. The flame is harder to control on the alcohol stove. It does require a windscreen, but windscreens on gas stoves also increase efficiency. While an alcohol stove might be a bit lighter on a short hike, the extra time and inconvenience have me always leaning toward gas. Of course, there is the price difference.
See Hiram Cook's channel on RUclips if you're interested in researching alcohol stoves and various fuels, including wood-burning stoves. Not up to date, but great information with real-time, accurate testing.
I first made a cat stove when Backpacker Magazine published an article comparing miscellaneous alcohol stoves (about 17 years ago). Cat stove easy to make, light, reasonably quick to heat up water. Have looked at other commercial and home made alcohol stoves over the years, and use a Pocket Rocket, too. My trips are also no more than 4 or 5 days, but I'm not counting grams that closely. I'll take the stove I want depending on mood and company. Solo -- usually the alcohol stove. With another person or two, usually the Pocket Rocket as we can share weight.
If you're really interested in going with an alcohol stove then you can go MUCH lighter than your current setup. My current setup is. Fuel bottle, 8 fl oz water bottle - weight: .4 oz Stove, self made Fancee Feest stove - Weight: .5 oz Windscreen, self made bit of foil - weight .5 oz (I think, I just left it in my pot for weighing) My stove doesn't depend on using stove body heat to vaporize the fuel and will work at any temperature. I've tested it sitting in ice water, not all Alcohol stoves can do that. Most off the shelf Alcohol stoves leave a lot to be desired. Some other tips and points Your heading in the right direction, don't leave a tight windscreen unless using something like an open burner. You're stove is a low pressure design I believe. Alcohol stoves will always be slower than canister. Alcohol is easier to find. You can check the fuel level of your canister by floating the canister in your pot of water. MSR puts the instructions and markings on their canisters to do this. Alcohol stoves take practice and a little more patience, but not having to listen to a rocket engine and dealing with pressurized canisters with various amounts of fuel might be worth the switch. Alcohol is a great emergency fire starting aid. If you like to cook on the fire at times a simple light alcohol setup makes for a great light backup. Hopefully that helps, don't stress if you find you prefer canisters. You've got to HYOH.
I truly do not understand the obsession with weight and boil times....I mean the odd Oz here and there will make no difference to what you carry....what makes a difference is the weight of your empty pack, sleeping bag, food, water, and shelter. I have never cared on how ling it took to boil water to use in my Dehydrated meal, I am camping not marathon racing.
Thanks for taking us along and giving us the good and the bad. I’d say the Alcohol stoves are more for the skilled hiker who is doing longer distances. If it’s an overnight and you have plenty of time at camp bring the canister.
True, mostly. Once you get the hang of using alcohol, you find out that you can leave your hand sanitizer and fire starter materials at home. If you use Everclear or moonshine, you have a little extra to add to your hot chocolate, too!
For me, trekking multiple days/weeks, a re-supply of alcohol fuel comes in a 500ml bottle weighing 500 grams/17.63 oz plus bottle weight. This is over twice the weight of a 200 gram/7oz gas can including the fuel in side, giving 16 boils per canaster. The only way alcohol fuel works for me is to drastically ration the amount of times per day my stove is used. This is no fun in a UK winter when we need to boil water 6-8 times a day, for hot drinks and 3 hot meals, not to mention boiling extra water to make a hot Nalgene sleeping bag heater. For me gas wins out. Alco stoves are fun for the weekend camper in the summer, but a nightmare for anyone who wants more than just 2 or 3 boils per day. Gas will run out, jin the same way liquid alcohol will. In this case, I can still put my pot on a fire, in the same way when liquid alcohol runs out. Just my opinions for anyone thinking of using alco stoves for multi-night treks.....happy trails
I have a homemade double-wall soda can stove. 1.5mm jet holes on the side. I boil 500ml water (from 10 degrees c with outside temp same) in 6 minutes on 30ml 91% rubbing alcohol and then the stove runs for around 2 to 3 minutes more. And that is from a cold start timing as I light the stove. I do not put alcohol under it or pre-heat in any way. So I think your stove is not that efficient as the titanium may take longer to heat up and vaporize the alcohol. I use a standard 1l aluminum triangle shape home cooking pot.
measure correctly and let them burn out, pouring alcohol back is not worth the risk because of the invisible flame. I have enjoyed you videos for years. Now that I am older I don't worry so much about time and efficiency but sky and peace. I love your stuff and have never been let down with the quality. have a great day.
Well now I have some idea how long it might take to grow an epic beard - July 2019 was simply a full beard 🧔♂️ now all I have to do is look through the channel videos to see when it got so long it needed its own ponytail 🤣
You are technically not allowed to use these during a burn ban as it is an open fuel, at least in my state. I usually just use a Coleman dual fuel with regular gasoline it is super cheap probably cheaper than alcohol but you can also use camping/white fuel if you want. You can find used ones for pretty cheap I got mine for $40 but I have seen them for as little as $20.
I think the only real issue with alcohol stoves may be at altitude. Colder, higher altitudes can make it less effective. For me, the time difference is a non issue at the altitudes I’m at. YMMV
Don't forget that alcohol has hundreds of other uses such as medical use etc.... whereas canister fuel basically has only a few uses at most... cooking, warming... and maybe a lantern...
Great video for newbies. I have been using a Trangia burner setup with and without the cooking setup for years and have had excellent results. The six minute mark is generally were I would say you will end up at and your weight calcs are good. The Trangia is a little heavier but bomber in rough conditions and with the wind screen, base and pots it is bulky and heavy but a great system overall. I'm not interested in shaving oz. on certain items. Shug was a huge help for me when I was getting started. The big difference, for me, is that you'll never have to raise your voice when doing a video with an alcohol stove. The couple extra minutes for the water boil is not a deal breaker for me.
Tayson, you need to provide at least a 1/4" gap between the windscreen and pot to allow the heat to rise and efficiently heat the pot. Doing this will greatly decrease your boil time. Thanks for sharing.
alcohol all the way for me. i don't mind waiting a few minutes more, and i like the silence. Enjoy a holy moment and listen to the birds while you wait.
"A holy moment", been watching Erik Normark, did you? ;-)
Absolutely. Why is anyone in a rush in the backcountry? Only time I rush is if I want to stop for a coffee, but the extra five minutes helps me rest and look around.
I make pot cozy for my pots to sit around them while I cook, so it actually helps boil time. A bottom and top cap also helps when rehydrating food inside, or to keep a tea brew going longer for a stronger infusion.
@@pedroclaro7822Yep, pot cozy for the win!
All by itself, the silence of the alcohol burner makes it the obvious choice.........
One other point is that it is generally a lot easier to get your hands on Alcohol fuel than gas cans, i know this will be dependent on where you live but in Europe hardware shop, chemists, decorators shops and camping/outdoors shops will all sell Alcohol (or some version of it) gas cans you are pretty much restricted to outdoors shops.
The Trangia alcohol stove has a rubber gasket which allows for closing and pre-warming in ones pocket when underway.
It all depends on the alcohol stove you use. I use a Zelph Fancy Feest stove, and I don't have to wait for it to warm up. It can be lit with the pot on it and starts heating the water immediately. Still takes 4.5 to 6 minutes to boil 2 cups of water depending on altitude/temperature/etc. I have canister stoves too, but find I use my alcohol stove pretty much every time. There's something about being able to wake up in the morning, get a cup of tea going, and not hearing the jet engine sounds a canister stove makes. I like the quiet. I'm not in a hurry to boil water.
I have a Jetboil too, but haven't used it in years. It's a piece of gear that pretty much only gets used when I loan it out to friends. Sure, it was neat to be able to boil 2 cups of water in under 2 minutes ... but at some point it occurred to me that I'm just not in a hurry when I'm on the trail. It's not like you don't have to wait for your food to re-hydrate. There was no point in being faster, and once I realized that wasn't important to me anymore, I started to really appreciate the quiet of an alcohol stove.
The other parts I really like are:
- It's much easier to see how much fuel you have left.
- You can adjust the size of fuel container you are using. For a 3-day trip, I may only take 4 ounces of fuel. You don't have that option with a canister.
- I can find yellow HEET pretty much anywhere. Hardware stores. Walmart. Walgreens. It's very easy to find, and works great. It's also less than $1.50 for a 10 oz bottle. That's a fraction of the price of what canister fuel costs.
I gave alcohol stoves a "try" a couple years ago just wondering what it would be like ... and was a quick convert. It's pretty much the only thing I use now.
I always wondered why everyone is in a race to boil water. I enjoy just being outdoors. I really like alcohol stoves.
5 or more minutes with alcohol? Really, you need to find another way to relax as obviously camping is too slow.😢
That priming trick with that Vargo is a must. In playing with mine, I found a difference of well over 10 minutes to bloom time without getting some heat under it. Once bloomed, I can often get up to 2 cups boiled in about 6 to 7 minutes. Not as fast as a Super Cat and other Alkies, but I found the trade-off to be in fuel efficiency. Believe it or not, while I usually start out with about an ounce or a bit more, I usually end up with about half an ounce leftover. That may be due to the more stable and sturdy folding aluminum windscreen I use with mine, also from Vargo. It hugs the Toaks 700 pot I used with it snugly, trapping heat close to pot bottom while still vented to allow air exchange.
Unfortunately, I also had a mishap with mine recently. I made the grave mistake of using mine a little too close to a new tent and a gust of wind was just strong enough to push the flames out through the windscreen and actually melted some holes into some of nooseeum mesh of my tent. So...lesson learned, and I'm now in the process of getting it repaired by replacing the damaged mesh panels with new ones to be sewn in.
Canister all the time for me. WAY faster boil times, more fuel efficient (on my Soto Windmaster), and ways less messing around.
A Trangia stove is the best burner I have for alcohol. I've tried many others but this one I favor the most. Thanks for your video.
Thanks for the feedback.
You are not the only person I've seen with a review like this, Gas Canister stove Vs Alcohol Fuel stove. Firstly with everyone I just don't get the weight comparison at all. When there is a few Oz/Grams in weight difference it is so negligible it's ridiculous. Secondly, when I am out in the woods, or a hillside, I am there to relax and chill out. I don't have only an hour or 2 and need my water to boils in 2 mins, I'm there to relax and chill out. I find it much more relaxing with the fuel stove gently boiling my water, pretty much silently, rather than the peace and quiet obliterated by what sounds like a rocket about to take off. I just don't understand the way people go mad for the Jet Boil. I have a Fire Maple, and don't get me wrong it's a great stove, but I hardly ever use it as I just don't like the noise, it gives me a headache. If there is wind forecast I may take the Fire Maple to cook quicker, but very rarely. A real fire or the alcohol/gel stove for me
I also use a fire maple, much more than my fancy feast stove. The ability to turn off the fire with a knob makes a lot of sense to me in an environment as flammable as colorado
Great job. Comparison videos are so educational. I love penny stoves, and have probably made over 100 myself, experimenting with the design. I've found three factors that makes big differences: 1) The fuel. I personally like HEET in the yellow bottle as it boils the fastest and cleanest and doesn't deposit as much soot on my pots. It's a little more expensive than rubbing alcohol, but given it boils water faster means less of it is required which translates to cost and weight savings. I saw someone comment that it was poisonous, but so is white and unleaded gas which people use in multi-fuel stoves. I don't know that it's an issue given the HEET is vaporized and virtually all the fuel burns away. 2) The number of jet holes affects boil time. I've made stoves with 12, 16, 18, and 20 holes, and the 20 hole boils water the fastest because well, you have more fire heating your pot. 3), The height the pot is above the jets. The optimal I've found is to have the jets 1" below my pot. That way the flames have enough room to blossom and get enough oxygen to burn the hottest. If you go higher you get too much ambient air temp cooling the flame, and too close doesn't give the flame enough time to mix with the oxygen in the air and doesn't burn as hot. 4) Something I've found when making penny stoves is the size of the can doesn't matter. I've made stoves from 24oz Arizona Tea cans, 12 oz Coke cans, and 8 oz Coke cans, and my favorite is the 8oz. It's lighter, takes up less space, and fits perfectly in a Fancy Feast cat food can to help protect it. And as a bonus, you can use the Fancy Feist can as a stove as well. I use mine to instantly snuff my alcohol stove out. One thing about the smaller the stove is it needs to be a little taller to be able to hold enough fuel to cook your meal. One last thing, for my priming pan, I cut the bottom out of a coke can about 1/8" above where the can tapers and roll the edges with a pair of pliers to remove the razor edge. It's extremely light and its shape makes it crush resistant.
Love the scientific approach. Logical based analysis was great!
Thanks for watching!
Alcohol stove; Fancy Feast 0.4 to 0.8 oz, cheep, no prime, no bloom time, integral pot stand, works at very cold temps, fastest boil times.
What's best to use depends strongly on weather conditions, particularly wind. Living in Norway, I use mostly alcohol bellow the tree line (quieter, lighter) and MSR Windburner gas stove high in the mountains (often strong winds). In the winter, wood burning to melt the snow bellow the tree line and gasoline stove above.
The BEST of anything be it a stove, tent, pack, car, bed, camera, etc. is the one that appeals to you. That's why there are multiple manufacturers. Some people like gas stoves, others like liquid stoves. Some people like Kelty, others North Face. Some people like Fords others Chevys.
These are some great points. Thanks for the info. About 2 years ago on my channel I tested 3 cheap backpacking stove varieties on how quickly they could make a closed can of coke explode. Check it out for a great alternative to the boil test.
Great DIY alternative wind screen ta boot?
Thanks for seeding the mem. neurons Joe.
What a beer BLEVE that was!; we as seven or so seen the one tossing the beer in the bon, but soon forgot. Lights out for a bit on a seven+ foot bon..blah blah. Many flipped themselves over backwards. ~ Squeek squeek..everyone ok? (-:
I like using both and also include a Firebox nano titanium sometimes as well. Burn twigs and sticks for free fuel. Also i think the standard Trangia works better overall as well. Good video...
Sounds like a good option!
I stopped messing with alcohol altogether once I got my titanium nano. Easy to get lit and you can get some coffee and oatmeal in the morning with only a handfull of sticks. For emergency I bring some fuel tabs to use on the nano's fuel plate. I have a super small alcohol stove I made from an energy drink can... but when you add the fuel for it in... it's definitely heavier and less versatile than the nano!
I really like to see how much fuel I've left, especially in colder seasons. As I'm a bit paranoid of not having means to cook I'd be taking a reserve canister always when going with a gas stove, so weight and volume would be much more than with alcohol. But that's just my personal "problem".
Also on some simpler gas stoves that are common here in Germany you can not unscrew the stove part from the canister which actually forces you to bring a reserve canister unless you're 100% sure it will last. And how could I ever be, not knowing the conditions I'll encounter before?
I just discovered last weekend that in extremely cold temperatures (-5...-10⁰C) gas stoves dont really work well anymore, too, unless you prewarm them. Which is not as easy as with a trangia.
It also gets much harder to start a fire in these temperatures, btw.
I'll stick with the alcohol, the silence it brings and the security of knowing how much fuel I have left, I guess.
Great feedback! Thanks for sharing!
A fancy feast alcohol wick stove will work no matter the temp. I have made many of these types of stoves and they perform flawlessly in any temp.
Nailed it, nice one man, thankyou.
I love mine!! all different kinds i have made and used have been very well . Thank you for posting !!
I fell in love with alcohol stoves as a teenager using one to make coffee and heat up my duckblind on cold winter mornings. Now I use a little stove made from fosters cans, I notice the larger diameter can lights quicker and boils about 20% faster than a pop can stove. I'll gladly trade the boil speed of a gas stove for the silence of an alcohol burner.
The ones I’ve watched they have boiled water with the Alcohol stove in 7 minutes .. I’ve just ordered a Alcohol stove .. cheers buddy
Yeah, that's a terrible alcohol stove.
@@terryshrives8322 traildesigns caldera Ti-tri inferno (burns alcohol, wood, hexamine and gel) blows the wheels off every other alcohol setup in terms of boil times but limits you to the use of a specific pot/cup you have it tailored to, so best for ultralight ‘thru-hikes’ really.
But for car camping with 2 or more people or hiking less than 1-2hrs to the campsite when weight and bulk are ok then Trangia is great
There's one big practical difference with a gas burner. If you run out of gas on the trail you're going to have to light a fire, and certainly in the UK, the fuel we use (methylated spirit) is sold in more places than gas canisters so it's most likely to be able to get that rather than gas canisters, plus if a store has canisters, they have to be the type of gas canister that fits your burner.
As for me, I haven't used a gas stove for backpacking since 1989 and I don't own one. What I use is basically a hobo stove made out of used food can that my cooking/boiling pot will fit inside when packed. Four holes lower down with two wire tent stakes through them for the pot support, alcohol stove below that. This means not only is the base heated, but so is the side wall of my pot, and the can is the wind shield.
If I do run out of fuel, then I can use wood in it, rather than light an open fire. If I can't get more meths at my next chance of resupply, then many general small shops have block fire lighters that will work, and a simple can with a few holes in it is easy to replace if mine gets damaged, which costs nothing out of a trash can, weighs very little and makes a multi-fuel stove.
Alcohol burners are silent, always work because there's nothing to go wrong. They can work at far lower temperatures than gas (if you keep your fuel warm in the burner or a small fuel bottle in a pocket close to your body). When it gets to below freezing temperatures, gas canister pressure goes down so it's just a small flame at best. Pre warming a gas canister doesn't last long either.
Great Feedback!
The efficiency of an alcohol burner is dependent on proper ventilation between the windscreen and the pot. It is also dependent on the distance from the top of the burner to the bottom of the pot. I have found the "sweet spot" to be 1" to 11/4". The Toaks siphon burner is one of the best commercially available burners. The Lixada knockoff is just as good, cheaper and larger than the Toaks. After you recover any excess fuel from the burner, light it to burn off the residual. Sure, a little waste and longer boil times. No need to rush when out in nature. The simplicity and the silence are well worth the trade off. Thanks for sharing. Love all of my OV equipment!
Don't forget, no off switch on the alcohol. So many places under fire restrictions will not allow their usage. Whereas the canister stove has off switch = allowed. Always verify fire restrictions before you go!
Great points! I love the advantages of using an alky, but conditions have to be appropriate for it.
I get the regulations. If allowed and you do use an alcohol burner/stove you should always have a way to snuff it quickly. I use the bottom of a Red Bull can about 1.25" to snuff my Toaks Siphon burner. It works great. Your burner may require a taller, larger snuffer. Trangias usually come with a snuffer.
Huge fan of alcohol for years now. Trangia has been my goto, love telling an old story about racing my buddies old MSR wisper lite to see who could get a boil first. Alcohol works fine in many conditions, especially if you combine it with the wind screen. Thanks for trying to get some converts into the alcohol arena.
Robert Moelder love mine mine as well- I have the adjustable lid for flame height- the thing is Bullet proof! Aka Swedish stove!
Tight windscreen restricts oxygen which is vital for the burning process (oxidation)
I have both types of stoves and what I use depends on the trip and what fire restrictions are in effect. With Scouts and certain other groups, canister is required. During red alert fire season canister is required. Certain forest areas, canister is required. If I'm out on a solo or small group hike and I'm going to be baking, then it's the alky stove and simmer ring. Yummy muffins or brownies
Great tip!
For me, the alcohol setup is not really so much lighter to justify choosing it over the gas one.
Especially since I find the gas burner a lot more efficient, I can increase or decrease heat power exactly as I need it; the alcohol flame is just not controllable enough for me.
Besides, I just don't like the idea of carrying liquid fuel. Accidentally spilling it would mean you've lost your fuel, which won't happen with solid fuel or gas.
For me, it's either gas or solid fuel. Or simply a pot stand over a small wood/twig fire.
That titanium alcohol stove isn't worth $35. Thanks for demonstrating it to us. I'll do the DIY approach using aluminum cans.
evernew is a pretty good brand, since it burns VERY fast and hard compared to others. but yes a soda can one will definitely get you by.
Cat can stove gang unite!
I'll stick with my soda can Frankenstein stoves.
I'd be inclined to give evernew a try if they made a resealable pressurized alcohol stove.
Trangia for the win
Every time I hear ounces I cringe. Come to the blessed gramms land! :-D
Not for nothing, but going through all this for an ounce of weight one way or the other? All things considered, I go with the alcohol, and the emergency backup is an esbit with a few fuel tabs -- that's in the belt pouch for emergencies anyway, so I don't count it it trade-off weight. As for the gas stoves? I use them in the shop to make tea . . on the trail I don't want the noise, and once a can is empty, you're zipped. If I run out of alky, I can whip out the esbit folder and light a tab. If I run out of tabs I can burn sticks and pine cones in it. Even better, I try not to get in that kind of fubar state and if I run out of fuel I drive to the nearest diner and order some hash and eggs.
Yes more outdoor videos please
Shug Emery has a couple videos on all his stoves. Warning he is a BIG alcohol stove guy.
How did you smother the flame on the Vargo? A Trangia is easy. Thx for taking time to post. I like and appreciate anyone who takes the time to save me from having to do the experiment.
Good video. I had this debate with myself about one year ago. Here is my thought process: (spoiler alert- I never use canister stoves anymore)
The BRS titanium canister stove weighs less than an ounce and is on Amazon for around $15. This is the canister stove I own. However I use an alcohol stove about 90% of the time. My alcohol stove is a Minibull Designs wick stove and weight about half an ounce (awesome stoves that have remote fuel so you can add fuel while the stove is still lit without dying)
Alcohol produces fewer BTUs of heat than canister stoves, so the longer the trip the more fuel you need for an alcohol stove. Running the numbers for me I found that alcohol weighs less to operate for a trip less than 3-4 days. Longer than that and the canister weighs less because you have more energy per ounce in the fuel.
That being said, weight isn't my only consideration. I also like the fact that alcohol stoves don't produce the waste canisters. And I like that I can get fuel for it almost anywhere. I also like that alcohol stoves are silent so I don't disturb the peace while I'm cooking.
The only time I don't use an alcohol stove is when I'm winter camping because it is more difficult to get the alcohol to vaporize enough to burn in sub zero temperatures. In those cases I use my MSR whisperlite, so still not a canister stove.
Thank you for your thorough comment. I still use a whisper lite and have been on the fence about alcohol for years. It's time to pull the trigger!
Definitely check out the minibull designs stoves. I use the choke hazard turbo and the remote gnome turbo. They are both remote fuel feed, which is awesome. I've made many alcohol stoves and also used some commercial ones. The minibull designs stoves are my absolute favorites.
I was actually looking at the choke hazard turbo. One thing I noticed is the gnome turbo has a simmer ring, I wasn't able to find a simmer ring for the choke hazard. What are the main difference between the gnome and choke hazard? Have you seen a simmer ring for the choke hazard?
Both stoves are the same diameter, so the simmer ring for the gnome should work on the choke hazard. The only difference between them is the height. I only boil water with my stoves so I've never used the summer ring, but I don't see why it wouldn't work on the choke hazard.
I'm just starting to research day/overnight hiking with a proper stove. Here's what I learned so far: I was also concerned about the landfill waste of canisters until I started learning that you can refill canisters with standard butane, which I'm guessing is fine for 3 season above 40F (Lots of RUclips videos on doing that) - otherwise my thinking is use Isobutane/Propane canisters for colder temps. In addition, as long as holes are punched into the canisters (Using either a screwdriver or the Jetboil key), the canisters can be recycled as metal so the challenge of landfill waste becomes a non-issue. I could be missing something but for us mere mortals, day hikes or overnighter's seems like it's a wash unless one is AR about shaving ounces - which I'm not.
My DIY stove from 2 pop cans, is 17 grams (0.6 freedom units) I’m a newb alcohol stover, but loving it. Thanks for the info
I think, I'll test this too, but with a proper measurement. Can't help it, I'm a physicist. Gonna do this in a way that can be reproduced and upload some nice graphs hehe including temp measurements ;-D Gas stove I already have. But I'm going on a hike where I can get refills in camps, so I think it makes more sense to fill alcohol up there than a gas canister. Also, an alcohol canister seems a much lower transport risk for leakage and other accidents, just from how this is built, very generally speaking. I've used it many times but never grown too fond of liquid gas in my pack. This seems to be the safest and simplest option. Another positive aspect about it seems to be the volume. You can put alcohol in a slim bottle like this and basically stick it anywhere in your pack. That's very practical. Also, the stove is super primitive and less parts that can break. I like that about it.
As a thin sheet, titanium is a fantastic conductor of heat, so it doesn't hold heat well. Aluminum sheet, like the extremely thin metal that cat food cans are made from holds heat much better. This aids in the rapid heating of the alcohol and efficient vaporization of it, which makes for a hotter and more sustainable flame. I use a Supercat stove with a scorch plate made from an oven liner sheet, cut to the size of the rim of my Evernew 1.3 liter titanium pot (aluminum would probably heat more efficiently but is harder to clean and is heavier). With 1/2 cup of water I can usually achieve a boil within 6 minutes and flameout a minute or so later with 1/2 oz. of alcohol - great for coffee and freeze-dried food, not so much for cooking. I made a pot cozy (coozy, to some) out of an old blue foam pad and duct tape, which allows me to further hydrate (or "cook", so to speak, my food). I also can simmer, using a soda can ring, which I can slip over the stove, partially covering the burn holes, minimizing the oxygen that they can take in.
Sorry, that's TWO cups of water, 1/2 oz. of denatured alcohol. 😁
That's great info!
i got a secret for ya, lighter than any fuel you can think to carry... the fuel all around you !! it’s a little outside the box, but dig this. you can use fallen branches, twigs and other tinder that’s all around you to start a fire. bonus: if you’re really crazy about eliminating minute increments of weight from your backpack, leave the lighter home too! you can source a hand drill or bow drill kit from your surroundings as well. that would eliminate the lighter and the tiny amount of fuel in it !
Unless you live in Arizona and are under fire restriction.
fire? what is fire? is it something new?smart ass
Alcohol stove boils 0,9L water in 10-14 minutes in windy and little colder conditions (8 degrees Celsius). I use burner that has rubber seal cap to store leftover juice in the burner. Before cooking I always fill it to the max level, which gives about 30-40 min burning time. It takes time for the burner to start giving heat effectively. So, at the beginning i use the weak flame to fry some sausages and when the fire is stronger, I use it to boil. That way you get the maximum out of your alcohol stove. Other than that - gas stove is always faster. It is like comparing old car to new one. Old car is more fun, but new one is faster.
If you need titanium then get the Evernew for about the same money. I’ve gotten 5 minute boils with the Evernew.
We're backpacking in a four person group. A no brainer to just get a jet boil split between us to boil water quickly and efficiently.
Nice demonstration.
that little alcohol stoves kinda cute but the rocker wins to me but again would use both
We've found another alcohol stove since filming this that does even better! It gives the pocket rocket a run for its money. Here's another video: ruclips.net/video/2H-kI7hhv_c/видео.html
You’re correct. That stove is notorious for being a bit slower compared to a traditional Trangia style stove.
Thx for sharing, chunk that one. I wanted it to work but it was a disappointment. Nothing beats a MSR pocket rocket both in boil time and fuel efficiency. I also have BRS titanium canister stove works very good and super lite. For alcohol can't go wrong with the good old Trangia. Take care bud..
Interesting comparison.
Addendum to my original post when you first put this out. The trangia titanium works very well. Likely better than the Vargo. I have now used alcohol all summer but as it gets colder (especially at elevation where i am in Co) it doesnt perform a well. I think my gas stove works better in the cold.
Gas stoves don’t work well below freezing. Butane no longer vaporises below -1C and isobutane won’t vaporise below -11C. That leaves you with a small percentage of propane, about 20% of the full canister when it’s really cold. Alcohol will still work, it’s a bit harder to light it, but it will work.
Interesting! I was curious, but i think for now i will stay with my jet boil!
I have some doubts about that specific Vargo alcohol stove, a friend of mine has it and compared to my Lixada titanium it is much slower + there is too much hassle with priming it, filling it with enough fuel, etc.
As a side note - what 's wrong with sitting 10 extra minutes by a silent stove and listening to birds singing?
After many years of hiking I ended up with a titanium twig stove (Vargo Hexagon) as a primary cooking device combined with alcohol stove as a backup because you can't burn wood everywhere or sometimes it is too rainy and it takes too much effort to find dry wood anyway. The good thing is that Vargo Hexagon works quite well as a windscreen for my alcohol stove.
Msr pocket rocket for me.i don’t need to worry about weight though because I’m jacked up and couldn’t do a multiple day hike lol.i wish I could though I love the vids and outdoors.
Thanks for watching, sorry to hear about the inability to do multi day hikes! Hope you find great ways to enjoy the outdoors anyways!
As i'm learning more about alcohol and canister gas stoves works great above 35' if temps go below 35' you need a stove that takes white gas that you can pump up your self '
It’s kinda funny ready comments from the perspective of a hunter who has to carry all the same gear but also Ammo, rifle, knife and saw for processing and what not and still not minding a few extra ounces here and there, I really love the MSR windburned set as it’s all in one and works in any wind and just about any temp.
(BASED ON 16 BOILS) 100 ml gas can is 200 grams=16 boils. 30ml of alcohol x 16 boils 16x30=480ml (480 grams) of liquid fuel vs 200 grams of gas fuel not including the weight of the liquid fuel bottle it self, totalling now over half a kilo. Gas is lighter more compact and faster to boil per 16 boils (using penny sove and methalated spirits). Alco stoves are more fun to use, but at a weight and size penalty for multi night trekking. Many youtube videos only display enough fuel for 3 boils max say, 50ml to 60 ml fuel bottle, great if your only out for the day, in which case a thermos flask would be more advantageous.
To clarify I have bought a few bits of kit from Tayson over at Outdoor vitals including sleeping bags, and love his gear and love watching his RUclips cannel, it just needs some clarity to real life use for multi night trekking from my point of view....
I have several alco stoves including the Trangia, and use them often. What stove and liquid combo gives you the most bang for your buck.... thoughts ???....Thanx guys
adit....My Vargo stoves also ran out of fuel before the boil could be reached. Solution to this is put it in the trash can.
You should try a twig stove. Some people call them rocket stoves
With any system, there is always going to be a significant amount of heat lost due to wind. That means that your boil times are going to be longer than they should be. You need a wind screen for whatever type of stove you use. I get much better numbers with the Trangia 27 system, which has a very effective wind screen. The 27 is a bit large for long-distance backpacking but I mention it as an example. There are other wind screens that are just as effective. The point is that a wind screen is critical when you have limited fuel.
My BCB Crusader Mk II system with trangia Stove is amazing you should try that out
Thanks for the suggestion!
I enjoy both. But you are right about the speed - gas stoves are much faster.
Note for alcohol stoves: you generally don't have a way to turn them off. You just need to let them burn the full batch of fuel each time you light it, until the fuel is gone.
Not with Trangia, as John Freivald said, just drop the closed simmer ring on top to extinguish- the fuel reservoir on my Trangia has enough for a couple of days use.
No man. All you have to do is just blow it out... but you should cover the hole so it doesn't evaporate... and put in a heavey zip- lock bag. And empty out the alcohol into the other container..
i use an aluminum can stove double walled inside a 2.5 oz titanium wood stove...acts as a wind screen and can use wood if necessary 2 ways at about 3oz plus alcohol container weight and fuel usually go with 5 hr energy for containers
Yeah I use an alcohol stove but it boils .5l in 5 minutes on .75oz of HEET alcohol. I still have my og pocket rocket and use sometimes but hate it in cold weather where you have to store the gas canister in your sleeping bag so it'll work... I guess my trusty alcohol stove will always be my go to
Which alcohol stove do you have?
@@dhands100 Mine is an older version but should be similar. Tinny makes great stoves!
@@joemac8474 thanks for your reply
I bought 3 litres of ethonol at my chemicals supplier in Thailand for my stove. Couldn't buy meths anywhere.
The chemist said it was safe to drink. He had so many of the plastic canisters that I thought he had a regular trade of the stuff. Where? I'm guessing the bars that are selling knock off booze.
I stopped drinking but I suppose, with the right alcohol, it could serve a dual purpose. Alcohol 2 Gas 1
For me, the best stove is the one that you have, didn't cost an arm and a leg, fuel is cheap and easily accessible, does what you want it to do / fit for purpose and with which you are happy. It also depends on the Application thereof. After 70 Summers, whilst still active in the Outdoors, I'm long past the 'how fast and far can I hike in a given time' phase.
I have a wide range of stoves .. Gas, Benzine, Alcohol / Gel Fuel, Solid Tabs and Wood (oh yes, Electric at home 😏). I use whatever suits the situation and the mood.
Self-made Stoves and Cookware are especially satisfying in that it's nice to test, use and modify AAWR these items .. and cheap.
That's a good perspective to have!
@@TaysonWhittaker 👍
Having 100% isopropyl alcohol as a disinfectant or accelerant for fire starter is way more versatile than gas stoves. Dripping a small amount of alcohol on moss makes a good compress or way to reduce fever, etc.
I'm a beginner as well and appreciate the info:) I've blown a ton of money trying different things. Then, I started looking at RUclips LOL, I have the kinda new toaks stove now I haven't really tested but if it works it'll be pretty nice I think and the wind screen seconds as a wood burner. so if I run out of fuel we'll still have some options. Thanks for the video! it was helpfull... I was still considering the gas burner, for now I guess I'll not worry about it too much
Thanks for watching! Glad we were able to help a little!
@@TaysonWhittaker More than a little, that was very helpful:) thanks again
I am new to your site. I started with the MSR firefly went to a Jetboil then now a pocket rocket fan. Question I have, since I climb altitude, Which works best at altitude...say above tree line? 10k + also which is better in cold weather..say low 30's? My Jetboil can boil cups n 90 seconds at sea level it seems. Not tested both side by side yet.
Liking your stuff so far. Thanks for your input!
In the low 30's either an alcohol stove or a gas stove should work fine at altitude. If you go much colder than that, there's potential for some types of fuel for gas stoves to not function very well.
The only reason you time isobutane stoves is to gauge your fuel consumption. With an alcohol stove you know it pretty much takes 1 oz for a two cup boil. Like others have said, stoves like Fancee feast don’t need to be primed.
Evernew titanium is terrific.
Boiling gives you a convenient stopping point for measuring when to stop. Does one have to boil water for every meal? We can’t eat food at 212 degrees F, 100 degrees C. We might improve our decision with some discussion about, “How hot is hot enough?”
Another question, “How long to cook water is too long?”. Is 4 mins extra too much? Are we toddlers, such that we NEED instant gratification? If we had a stove that cooked our water to boil instantly, is that the standard we hope to achieve?
Another question, is lighter weight better? Might there be other considerations? Safety? Weather, wind, rain, ice, snow…altitude? Pack space requirements? Shape?
I’m hungry, waaaaaaa!!!
Give this a thought:Purchased Trekmate cook system( a trangia knockoff,),15 $.Bought remote gas canister (also knockoff)25$.So far 40$ in,am happy so far.The Trekmate burner they send should be replaced,but have both styles of cooker,windproof,and 40$ instead of 150$ with Trangia.LITTLE less quality,works well,good price break!
Couldn't get cap on well enough,but already had Trangia burner backup
Get a jetboil, this will boil water mega fast and save gas due to being very efficient, meths stove can save weight for 1/2 days but in practice its not great if windy, cold and not fast and you can't control the heat. You can also refill gas canisters so you can take what weight of gas you require before going out. Cheers
I don’t need an answer, I already have it - alcohol stoves are the way to go. Unless you’re in a bike packing divide race, I see absolute no reason for anyone being in a rush in the backcountry - just enjoy the outdoors over your silent stove.
Kojin DIY stove and stormin stove cone. Light yet safe - untipabble stove, you can smother out with lid, or adjust the flame.
Stormin cone is easy to diy, you can Mel it custom to a specific pot with just about any metal sheet and tin snips or going to a shop with the design drawn to be cut by others. Stormin cone can serve as pot stand and PERFECT windshield. Or you can use hardware cloth, that thin metal mesh, to make a pot stand.
I use a Powerade bottle for my alcohol carrying, because it doesn’t drip and get dirty with its nice cap, and it has a plastic thst goes over the cap to prevent evaporation and contaminating your pack.
I still place both alcohol stove and bottle in plastic bags or it will still evaporate and if inside the pot - you will taste it.
I've performed a straight-across comparison between an alcohol stove and an isobutane stove. The conditions were identical with carefully measured water (I used a scale.) I also did it indoors and ensured both stoves started the water at the same temperature. I measured the temperature throughout the test with an immersion thermometer. No windscreen was used on either because there was no breeze. I measured (in grams) the amount of fuel used. I did let the alcohol stove warm up before I started the timer. I used a Stanley pot for both tests.
It took the alcohol stove 22:34 minutes to bring 16 oz. of water to a rolling boil and used 32 grams of denatured alcohol. The gas stove took 3:24 to bring the same water to a rolling boil (I turned it on about 90% of full-open), and it only used 12 grams of fuel. Minus the fuel, the gas stove weighs a fraction of what the alcohol stove weighs and is still several ounces less with equal amounts of fuel. This is because the gas efficiency is much higher than the alcohol.
The alcohol stove I used is probably not the best one for such a test. I used the Keweis Outdoor Portable stove. (smile.amazon.com/dp/B07NXY47BH?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details - not an affiliate link as I don't recommend this stove) Your alcohol stove is much lighter, so the comparison would be more favorable for the alcohol stove.
The flame is harder to control on the alcohol stove. It does require a windscreen, but windscreens on gas stoves also increase efficiency. While an alcohol stove might be a bit lighter on a short hike, the extra time and inconvenience have me always leaning toward gas. Of course, there is the price difference.
Good job on the presentation, but in cold weather… alcohol stove over canister anytime and double that during night time 😅😅
Thanks for the feedback.
See Hiram Cook's channel on RUclips if you're interested in researching alcohol stoves and various fuels, including wood-burning stoves. Not up to date, but great information with real-time, accurate testing.
What’s the windscreen your using?
You can buy a gas stove that weighs 1 oz also.also could use the esbit stove
Great options!
I found the Vargo titanium stove to be a little flimsy.
How much fuel did you fill the second time that was more efficient?
Canister stove is more fuel efficient when used on low heat,takes longer to boil but more efficient.
Good for summer but I prefer gas for winter. All my alcohol stoves are older Minibull stoves.
I first made a cat stove when Backpacker Magazine published an article comparing miscellaneous alcohol stoves (about 17 years ago). Cat stove easy to make, light, reasonably quick to heat up water. Have looked at other commercial and home made alcohol stoves over the years, and use a Pocket Rocket, too. My trips are also no more than 4 or 5 days, but I'm not counting grams that closely. I'll take the stove I want depending on mood and company. Solo -- usually the alcohol stove. With another person or two, usually the Pocket Rocket as we can share weight.
Check out a caldera cone
If you're really interested in going with an alcohol stove then you can go MUCH lighter than your current setup. My current setup is.
Fuel bottle, 8 fl oz water bottle - weight: .4 oz
Stove, self made Fancee Feest stove - Weight: .5 oz
Windscreen, self made bit of foil - weight .5 oz (I think, I just left it in my pot for weighing)
My stove doesn't depend on using stove body heat to vaporize the fuel and will work at any temperature. I've tested it sitting in ice water, not all Alcohol stoves can do that. Most off the shelf Alcohol stoves leave a lot to be desired.
Some other tips and points
Your heading in the right direction, don't leave a tight windscreen unless using something like an open burner. You're stove is a low pressure design I believe.
Alcohol stoves will always be slower than canister.
Alcohol is easier to find.
You can check the fuel level of your canister by floating the canister in your pot of water. MSR puts the instructions and markings on their canisters to do this.
Alcohol stoves take practice and a little more patience, but not having to listen to a rocket engine and dealing with pressurized canisters with various amounts of fuel might be worth the switch.
Alcohol is a great emergency fire starting aid.
If you like to cook on the fire at times a simple light alcohol setup makes for a great light backup.
Hopefully that helps, don't stress if you find you prefer canisters. You've got to HYOH.
Thanks for the insights and tips!
That wind screen looks cool, but I dont believe it breathes well enough.
It don't
I truly do not understand the obsession with weight and boil times....I mean the odd Oz here and there will make no difference to what you carry....what makes a difference is the weight of your empty pack, sleeping bag, food, water, and shelter. I have never cared on how ling it took to boil water to use in my Dehydrated meal, I am camping not marathon racing.
Same as me m8
Thanks for taking us along and giving us the good and the bad. I’d say the Alcohol stoves are more for the skilled hiker who is doing longer distances. If it’s an overnight and you have plenty of time at camp bring the canister.
True, mostly. Once you get the hang of using alcohol, you find out that you can leave your hand sanitizer and fire starter materials at home. If you use Everclear or moonshine, you have a little extra to add to your hot chocolate, too!
Alcohol fuel is not hand sanitizer. It's actually quite poisonous.
Which is better for safety? I would think the canister stove. No chance of spilling.
Yea that is a good point and factor to consider. Some areas ban alcohol stoves to fear of starting an accidental fire.
For me, trekking multiple days/weeks, a re-supply of alcohol fuel comes in a 500ml bottle weighing 500 grams/17.63 oz plus bottle weight. This is over twice the weight of a 200 gram/7oz gas can including the fuel in side, giving 16 boils per canaster.
The only way alcohol fuel works for me is to drastically ration the amount of times per day my stove is used. This is no fun in a UK winter when we need to boil water 6-8 times a day, for hot drinks and 3 hot meals, not to mention boiling extra water to make a hot Nalgene sleeping bag heater.
For me gas wins out. Alco stoves are fun for the weekend camper in the summer, but a nightmare for anyone who wants more than just 2 or 3 boils per day. Gas will run out, jin the same way liquid alcohol will. In this case, I can still put my pot on a fire, in the same way when liquid alcohol runs out. Just my opinions for anyone thinking of using alco stoves for multi-night treks.....happy trails
I have a homemade double-wall soda can stove. 1.5mm jet holes on the side. I boil 500ml water (from 10 degrees c with outside temp same) in 6 minutes on 30ml 91% rubbing alcohol and then the stove runs for around 2 to 3 minutes more. And that is from a cold start timing as I light the stove. I do not put alcohol under it or pre-heat in any way. So I think your stove is not that efficient as the titanium may take longer to heat up and vaporize the alcohol. I use a standard 1l aluminum triangle shape home cooking pot.
Thanks for the feedback.
Can you please give me some details on that alcohol bottle you have? Thanks.
I always go with the alcohol stove. You need a better alcohol stove brother. That vargo just isn't ideal. Get yourself the Evernew stove!
measure correctly and let them burn out, pouring alcohol back is not worth the risk because of the invisible flame. I have enjoyed you videos for years. Now that I am older I don't worry so much about time and efficiency but sky and peace. I love your stuff and have never been let down with the quality. have a great day.
Fancy feast stove
Well now I have some idea how long it might take to grow an epic beard - July 2019 was simply a full beard 🧔♂️ now all I have to do is look through the channel videos to see when it got so long it needed its own ponytail 🤣
You are technically not allowed to use these during a burn ban as it is an open fuel, at least in my state. I usually just use a Coleman dual fuel with regular gasoline it is super cheap probably cheaper than alcohol but you can also use camping/white fuel if you want. You can find used ones for pretty cheap I got mine for $40 but I have seen them for as little as $20.
Thanks for sharing!
I think the only real issue with alcohol stoves may be at altitude. Colder, higher altitudes can make it less effective. For me, the time difference is a non issue at the altitudes I’m at. YMMV
Altitude effects ALL camp stoves.
Don't forget that alcohol has hundreds of other uses such as medical use etc.... whereas canister fuel basically has only a few uses at most... cooking, warming... and maybe a lantern...
That's also a great point!
What type of pots are those?