My conversion to tents was waking up with a skunk on my chest. He(visually verified) took a bit of sweet talking to convince his departure. Tent wall is now mandatory.
Had a lizzard up my pants up to my knee once in Morocco. One of the biggest shocks in my life. Couldn't sleep the rest of the night and was just sitting there. Bivak since then. And after 2x lyme disease.
oh my goodness! Thank you for sharing your experience. I wanted to try a tarp to save weight. However, between the mice and the skunk, I definitely WILL NOT. Most who tarp camp don't share these critter stories. Thank you @dulaneyp for being honest.
Well said. A tent provides more protection and a simpler experience at a very comparable weight. With a sub 1 lbs tent it's not much weight saved by a tarp. Tarps are fun sometimes but as you say, a tent is just much more versatile. - Dan
I appreciate the minimalistic yet stylistic video and the reasoning you provide for your change in equipment use. It's interesting to think about how we become attached to gear despite the logic of the context.
I generally travel and camp off-trail and never near other people, so I haven't had problems with rodents. I'm highly allergic to them though, so I carry a small vial of strong-smelling essential oil (pine or balsam fir) as repellent. I rub a few drops into a bandana or whatever other clothing or gear the oil won't damage before I go to sleep. Peppermint oil will also work, but I prefer the scent of pine or fir. It reminds me how the forests smelled before all this beetle kill. I use a single wall tent to keep bugs and rodents out, and because I'm usually above timber line. And of course, in good circumstances, the doors can be left wide open, giving that sense of freedom. I always learn something from you, and I really appreciate the directness and quality of your videos. Never any annoying hype (or annoying anything for that matter). Thank you!
Hi, I am a die hard tarp guy, but last week I had the experience of a cougar lying in wait for me to come out of my shelter. I spotted it with my headlamp and it ran off, but it made me think. The tarp setup did cramp its style so maybe a tent is a little safer, because it gives the illusion of an enclosed structure.
Glad you're alright! No idea how much of a difference DCF makes to a cougar - they could clearly rip it to shreds to but I'm not sure if they know they can rip it to shreds. I wonder if any research has been done on this topic.
@@timbschwartz I have heard that lions are deterred by tents, they see them as a solid object. Bears, definitely not so much. The cougar had scoped out my site thoroughly and was crouched down behind the closed end of my shelter, so that when I came out of the opening my back would have been to it. It was within 20ft. Definitely ambush predators!
@@AndrewSmith-rp6ee The new tarp that I will be making, will be reinforced with pure UHMWPE webbing (1000 lbs) in a X, [], and + pattern, where the UHMWPE cord will only directly connect to the UHMWPE webbing. The tarp fabric itself, is only really just connected to the UHMWPE "frame" and there for water and wind. But all the pulling forces will be primarily on the webbing. The webbing will only add about 3 oz to the total weight. This means that if it is pitched low and primarily to trees, it would slow down even a grizzly. Note, I said, slow down, not stop. If a grizzly really wants to get to you, not even UHMWPE webbing and cord will truly stop it. But slow down might be good enough in 8 out of 10 situations. Might buy you enough time to get out bear spray or the like. Btw, for mini bears like mice, peppermint tea and/or essential oil is a really good deterrent. They really don't like the smell of strong mints. We use to have mice problems in one of our food pantry closets, until we started to put peppermint essential oil on some peppermint tea bags and throwing a few or so in there. They completely leave the space after a day or two. It takes them a little longer if they have been chowing down on a liked food, but they will leave and stay away as long as the scent is strong. Spiders and ants also seem to really dislike strong mint as well. Thankfully I love the smell of mint!
@@justinw1765 thanks for the mint tip, I had never heard of that! That sounds like a pretty skookum tarp, hard to imagine that the extra webbing only adds 3 Oz. For bears, I am very careful to keep food smells out of my shelter and I rarely have any issues. My go to tarp is a 1 lb 10'x10' silpoly tarp that I made, that I set up in a fully enclosed configuration.
I was spooked about using anything but a tent years ago. We pulled up to a trail head late one evening. I was warm, the stars were in full view we decided to cowboy camp. Just after dawn we started packing up and my buddy let out a “WTF”A baby rattle snake was under his backpack. Yep, been in tents ever since (that was about 25 years ago).
A few thoughts. First, I would never consider trekking poles as extra weight these days, as most backpackers are using them while hiking. They’re usually not carried on the pack and taken out only when pitching a shelter. When talking tarps, we also need to add in the weight of a ground cloth. Modern lightweight gear is relatively expensive and delicate. The last thing I want to do is get a bunch of trail dust, pine needles, sap, etc. on my quilt, sleeping pad, and sleeping clothes. Tarp + ground cloth + mosquito netting + guy line definitely weighs more than the lightest Zpacks DCF tents. Even if I’m not using a tarp as my primary shelter, I still often carry a large DCF tarp on hikes, especially group hikes. While, as a solo hiker, I’m fine doing a death march in the rain, only eating a solid breakfast and dinner and subsisting on snacks on the move all day, I find most backpackers still like a formal break for lunch, especially less seasoned or low-mileage backpackers. The DCF tarp doesn’t weigh much on its own, and I can quickly pitch it a-frame style between two trees and use it as a shelter from the weather for four hikers and gear. I’m already carrying the four stakes minimum that I’ll need for my primary shelter, and everyone has a sit pad. As long as I’m carrying the tarp, when in camp I’ll just pitch it over my non-pyramid tent. If it rains at night, I can often protect the entire tent from any moisture at all. Even the floor stays dry, as long as the ground in camp around my tent doesn’t get over-saturated. I’m not advocating carrying a tarp and tent as a solo hiker, but in group trips, particularly if you’re the leader with less experienced and less hardened people, the tarp can really enhance the experience for all. Finally, until you’ve given hammock camping a serious go as a solo hiker I’d encourage you not to get rid of an 8x10 or larger DCF tarp. You’re probably going to be heavier, even with a modular hammock setup focused on minimizing weight, than you would with a Zpacks DCF shelter, but the hammock in areas with trees is usually a lot easier to find a place to pitch, as the slope of the ground underneath is less of a factor. Hammocks have zero condensation, and are cleaner camping options as none of your gear has to come into contact with wet ground. Hammocks allow for a dry place to cook under in the rain as you have a large tarp overhead, and can pack everything up dry in rainy conditions, except for the tarp. There’s no splash on an inner tent or tent floor covered in wet dirt and pine needles to deal with. No issues with mice chewing holes into your shelter, either. Since you are hanging below the edges of the tarp, when you wake up you can look all around camp. I see deer, fox, and other critters lounging around camp before they scurry away at the first sound of a vestibule zipper opening. I’ve tarped a lot, and feel that the animals are less spooked and more curious about the hanging burrito, and have thus had way more morning wildlife encounters in camp than I have with a tarp. There’s definitely a learning curve with a hammock, and that I feel is its biggest negative. In the end, it’s a consistent pitch as you’re just using two trees as a base for an a-frame tarp pitch with 4-6 tie-outs and hanging a piece of fabric between the same two trees. Probably the biggest learning factor is in the tension and slope of the hammock between the two trees, so the fabric doesn’t have any tight ridges once you get inside, which can cause discomfort, limit space for movement, and impede a good night’s sleep. Sleeping in the hammock can also be a challenge, but with proper pitch techniques back and even side sleepers will be happy. Stomach sleepers not so much. As a stomach sleeper, I’m happy to report that in the hammock I can easily fall asleep on my back or side, which I can’t do on my mattress at home. The best part of hammocking is in its regenerative qualities. No matter how stiff my legs and hips are at the end of the prior day, I wake up fully restored. I think this is due to being cradled and suspended all night long. Conversely, in a tent I still feel stiff the next day.
I'm new to camping, having just started last spring. But I do obsess over new hobbies, and have to agree on all points. Being middle aged, I was shocked to find that waking up in my hammock feels better than waking up at home. Probably an obvious point for you, but for others it's worth noting that a more consistent hammock experience is had with a structural ridgeline. Just a feature to consider if you're shopping. It's funny, as comfortable as I am in a hammock, I'm sure this video came up because I've been considering trying a tarp as a possible tent replacement just for a fun minimalist weekend.
I’ve seen you comment on the videos quite often now and just wanted to let you know I really appreciate reading all of them. Thanks for dropping so much of your knowledge and experience. Really appreciate it!
hi🌷 I have to agree with the hammock camping! For sure with back issues! Do you know where to get the best down underquilt w/o spending $300- !? Lmk Thanks and take care! 🥳 Cheryl
You are my go-to guy for the more artisic and esoteric backpacking gear vidoes; so well done and thoughtfully informative. I have three general modes of trail shelters: Nothing, when the conditions allow for it. This is how I grew up and is still my favorite; a tarp, when rain or snow threatens. Almost always have a mini-tarp and a few stakes with me; and full-on tent (Hilleberg Abisko) when the going is foreseeably rough, like Iceland or Finland. That being said, the current development of the single-walled Dynema tents have really peaked my interest for all but the roughest conditions. It may change my whole stable of choices even at this stage of my life (I'm 67). Please keep making your great videos!
Thank you so much for the kind words! I'm glad you're enjoying the videos. And thank you for sharing your setup! Sounds like you have some good options.
Agreed. I’ve done about 3500 miles with a Zpacks tent. I’ve started looking into tarps and have come to the conclusion that modern DCF tents are the better option for all of the reasons that you listed. Weight, ease, and protection are all on the tent’s side in most situations.
This video resulted in me hitting the Subscribe button. Good, well thought out content. It often use single wall shelters, and sometimes even free-standing tents depending on the trip, but my go-to shelter is a tarp. I don’t like condensation and find tarps allow for a lot more flexibility when looking for a place to sleep. I’m also much more of a hiker than a camper. Like you mention though, a lot depends on the trail. If I am camping where there are a lot of people I will probably use a single wall shelters. Thanks for the video.
Tarping is a fantastic skill to have, whether you use it or not. I hope to take along a small UL tarp WITH my tent this year, and learn some tarp skills going forward. Thank you for another GREAT video!
I backpack a lot and I honestly have never seen anyone use a tarp ever. I hike with my dog and my Duplex works very well and it’s very light. I live in New England and it rains a lot. I can’t imagine trying to stay dry in a tarp.
Thanks for the comment! I've found that in all but the grossest conditions, you actually stay surprisingly dry under a tarp as long as the pitch and site are good. But like I said in the video, sometimes I just don't want to think about it that much, especially if its late. The Duplex is a great option for 1 plus a pup! My fiancee and I love our Triplex.
If done right, you can actually stay drier in a tarp vs a tent. Primarily because a tarp can be so much better ventilated than a tent, and there is much less condensation build up. But the tarp has to be on the large side or partially shaped (a front beak or the like) and again, site selection is crucial. Even when I use a tent, I rarely ever use a tent with a dedicated, connected bathtub type floor, but use a floorless pyramid type tent, and usually don't have much issue.
@@justinw1765 I am wondering what part of the country you live in. I hiked the Long Trail this year and it was essentially 20 days of endless rain. One week it rained 17 inches. I am just wondering how that works in a tarp. I get the condensation issue. I guess because I actually never see anyone use a tarp I have no idea how they actually work. I guess after a long day of grinding on the trail I just want to put my tent up, not deal with bugs etc. I always hear on videos how awesome they are and I know Jupiter uses them and he is a hiking machine. Take care
Lived in New England for years. No tarps or cowboy camping for me. Too many ticks. Ticks = Lyme disease, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, and all sorts of other nasty crap. Also too many mosquitoes for about six months of the year. Also too many chances for rain, unless going in winter. You can get 3 nice days, then 3 days of storms with waves of rain where everything is wet. A tent that has good ventilation (not a single wall) works quite well in such conditions. I'll carry the extra pound, thank you.
It was time for bed, so I picked your video. I was interested in your view on this topic. The bonus was hearing you converse about your experiences. You put me into the space of being in a real forest, and all it's wonder. I began to relax and a smile appeared. Thank you for the peace.
Both. When I visited the BWCA it rained every day. Either a tent or tarp alone would have been miserable. The extra 2 lbs is well worth the added weight.
I'm learning about this all too - So far the tarp seems great as a backup shelter, something to take a nap under on a hike but quickly shows its limitations under repeated or difficult conditions (rain, snow, wind, bugs, etc). I will research and get a backpacking tent for dedicated use and keep experimenting with tarps. No wrong way to do things if you are enjoying your time doing it!
1) my 10x8 tarp is pretty spacious underneath and i love having more room to spread things out and stretch and roll around. 2) for site selection, tarps are way more flexible. I’m surprised you put site selection as a + for tents. Tents are more finicky, esp with uneven ground or if you have a nice spot but a branch is in the way or some other obstacle. 3) if the weather gets REALLY bad, like super strong wind, a tarp wins - you can pitch it really low and cut the wind out of the equation, whereas a tent will just blow over. Jardine discusses this. For just ‘normal’ bad weather, like if you know it will rain and want to hang out in camp with another person, a tent would be more convenient. But life-or-death - I’d rather have the tarp, esp strong wind. 4) a basic A-frame works at the end of a long day - so if you really don’t want to think about it. Seems like finding a sufficiently flat spot for a tent is more difficult. I love my Durston, but my tarp is easier for site selection. I just need to find an area for my actual body to sleep in and it’s ok if the surrounding area is uneven or otherwise problematic. for a tent, you have to be much more careful and need more floor space to consider. Uneven ground or just one obstacle can be a dealbreaker for a tent site. 5) weight - tarp + bug net doesn’t add much. Tarp + bivy is a little more, but the bivy also adds a bit more heat if you need it. So you need to count that as part of the pros of the added bivy weight. 6) as you get older, you’ll find that tarps are way better for getting in and out of, esp for midnight nature calls. After a long day of hiking, older guys can easily strain a muscle just having to make the awkward movements to get in and out of a tent or to change clothes or do other things. 7) ventilation and, therefore, warmth. Never had a condensation issue with a tarp. I agree the great new tents out there are light enough that weight alone isn’t enough to justify a tarp, but there are other factors to consider. I think you use a smaller tarp than my 10x8 and that’s partly why a tent can be more convenient in many situations. But with a larger tarp, you don’t get much added weight, but you do get much more ease of use and comfort and margin of error.
I see you have a Durston, so you know that there are lightweight tents out there where strong winds really aren’t a concern. That said, the Durston seems to take the same amount of space needed to land a small helicopter, especially the two-person version. For point 6, carry a pee bottle. Changing a shirt sitting down isn’t a problem, and I can change my pants and socks lying down. I’m an “old man” so I get the stiffness, and backpacking tends to make a lot of us stiff. I would say looking into Yoga is a good idea as you get stiff in your old age, as a preventative and overall heath improvement.
@@andymytys yeah, I’ve tried a pee bottle but it’s an annoying extra thing, and particularly stinky one. But even with the bottle, better to be standing than kneeling in a tent. There’s an impressive wind test on YT with the durston, but at some point physics takes over and a tight low pitch tarp will outperform any Single wall ultralight tent. Yeah, I do stretches but it’s a whole other ball game after many days of hiking. More electrolytes made a big difference though.
@@RC-qf3mpthe best tarpers don’t just pitch anywhere. They look around camp for things like natural windblocks that can be used as part of their shelter. This is especially true for those using tarps that are less than 8x10 in size. Site selection becomes an important factor. I would say that, likewise, an experienced backpacker looks at the forecast and takes it into account when looking for a place to pitch. It’s a rookie that pitches on a bald and relies on their tent or tarp to protect them from torrential rains or gale force winds. I’ve yet to be anywhere below treeline where simply walking for an extra 30 minutes won’t find me an ideal spot of some sort to camp in. In most conditions those 30 minutes are 1 to 1.5 miles of ground. Better to stay on trail a little longer than to spend that time fighting the terrain for a stable, storm worthy pitch. Thus, I see the “but my shelter can handle a tornado” point as more the realm of marketing and rookie realities. An experienced outdoors-person watches conditions as they develop and adjusts plans according to avoid them. The few times when I’ve been caught in an exposed area by a storm I didn’t waste time pitching a shelter, but rather moved to lower ground, found natural shelters (tree groves, boulders, etc), put on my rain gear, and just waited the storm out. The worst conditions of storms rarely last more than an hour. A tarp or tent fly can be used as an improvised bothy if raingear isn’t enough. When tarping. I try to avoid the low pitch as much as possible, and any tent I use will be side entry with at least 40” of peak headrooom. I don’t like to crawl or roll into and out of my shelter. It’s not a hovel, it’s my home. Overall, I don’t have to worry about any of the above if I’m in a hammock. I just pitch my 8x10 tarp high for ventilation and make sure the stakes are secure and there are no widowmakers above. The hammock takes up so little horizontal space that even wind driven rain from the side isn’t of concern.
@@andymytys thanks. I also forgot to add to my #1 on the list…with the larger tarp you can do fully enclosed tarp setups that use part of the tarp as a floor, which can partially act as a bathtub. As long as the water isn’t coming in from all directions, you can block off the water stream. You can also quickly dig a ditch with your shoe so water flows around you. And practicing leave no trace, you fix the ditch before you leave (in case anybody reading wants to nit pick about that). But the bigger tarp has that flexibility. Yeah, dyneema UL tarps could be a bit more fragile but it’s worth mentioning. There are creative fully enclosed tarp configurations out there. A Also - you can cook under a tarp, safely and easily.
I have always been a tent camper and am really contemplating going with a tarp instead of the tent for the versatility you do not have with the tent. Now that there are "screen liners" with bathtub floors very reasonably priced designed to be used with a tarp to have good bug protection makes the idea much more attractive in my opinion. Just the versatility in set up height, or using one part as a wind break and yes using a ridge line between two trees again is not so bad. But a couple of adjustable trekking poles can still allow set up minus the trees. Weight can be kept with the right gear choices not to be a deal breaker really and yes in cold weather I would still prefer the tent as long as its ventilation was well designed to control condensation build up. All gear choices have their pro's and con's and each different camping scenario may change which is a better fit for that trip. But if you have both options available you can then choose which one to pack for the next trip. But the more I think about it the more I think if I could only have one or the other the tarp option gives me so much more versatility in the different ways it can be used or deployed I would go that route over a tent as my only option.
I love tarps too . But I also love my two man , 2 trecking pole ,double wall tent . I have a summer liner 3 season . A winter liner 4 season. It is the Lanshan The tint is tough and it isless than 2lbs . I use trecking poles to hike . I have set it up between trees . Let the gear snobs roar ! It is a great tent .
A sleepmat, bivi or hammock under a tarp is great, but a simple, single pole and reliable tent gives solitude and privacy at the end of a long hike - as we say in the north of England, horses for courses......thanks for opening the debate 😊
I'm loving your channel more and more! Goof stuff here, I just got into tarp camping recently and like it for the reasons you do (knots!) But yeah for true UL the best tents beat the best tarp setups (at least what I bring haha).
I have been having a similar shift in thinking. Been a tarp and bivy camper for years. Had a great work season one year so got a zpacks duplex for the sierra high route and hated it since finding places to set up was a pain. I really mossed the versatility of my tarp. Then i got into hammocking and havent used my zpacks duplex in years. Pulled it out of retirement recently for some winter time glamping with wool blankets in very rainy and buggy conditions and was like damn this is super comfy. It is true that solely based on weight at this point a single wall shelter out performs most tarp bivy or hammock setups. But for pack size and versatility tarp wins especially silnylon. I like to use a large silnylon tarp now over my duplex for extended camps. totally eliminates any misting in the tent during extended storms and provided a huge extended living/cooking area.
Nice! I've done the tarp/tent combo only a couple of times, but it worked like a charm on both occasions. The fiancee and I are going out on a trip in the next couple weeks - I'll take my tarp along with the triplex!
I enjoy both tarp and tent camping. The Plex Solo is amazing. It's crazy light and versatile and also provides protection. I enjoy the openness of tarp camping, so when the weather is good, I just sleep with the vestibule door open. Great choice!!
Two thoughts: 1) The number of stakes needed for set-up are usually greater with a tarp vs a tent further negating the tarp's theoretical weight advantage. In mild weather, I can set up my Skyscape Trekker with as few as 3 stakes. 2) Tents can usually be placed in smaller areas because they have a smaller overall footprint.
Very solid points. I feel similarly. I keep a tarp/bivy combo for off trail peak bagging type trips where a tent may not fit. With a bivy you can find a 25”x74” relatively flat area almost anywhere.
Here in Florida it's was a tent for me and then I made a switch. 1st consideration is what ever it is it has to have bug protection. So I made a choice as a teen and went with what might be considered the Red Headed ( outcast ) Step Child of camping back then , the Hammock , a WW2 Jungle Hammock. That was over 60 years ago and I'm still in Jungle hammocks but modern day ones with bug netting and a rain fly ( tarp ) . I have had all sorts of critters walk under my hammock over the years and most of the time they keep going. One morning ( I always looked under the hammock before getting out ) and had 2 Water Moccasins laying there. I stayed in the hammock till they were gently persuaded to move on. Still use a tent now and then when the area requires one.
Having backpacking shelter options for different use cases makes a ton of sense and really does make it easier to pack and prepare for a trip. So I agree with the sentiment here. I would also add that having a freestanding tent as an option is also really good.
Last month I moved from tarp to tent. Weight is almost the same and my comfort level has gone up significantly. However, the condensation is more than i’d like. Great video! 🎉
Thanks for the comment, Joey! Yeah, I don't love the condensation, but I've found the Plex Solo to be roomy enough that I don't bump the walls. Site selection plays an important role here too, but there's only so much you can do to minimize it.
good video. Same conclusion, dcf tarp + waterproof ground sheet + bug protection and critter protection is heavier than a single wall dcf tent. Also the tent is more storm resistant
Good video man! Here in the Midwest I only find myself using a tarp for fun, and usually only in late October and in winter time when it's like 20-40 degrees out it's a very small window of opportunity. The bugs will carry you away around here otherwise. A tent is a necessity I find more than a luxury. It's all situation dependent. It's not so much the bugs even that creeps me out but if I wake up with a snake in my sleeping bag some day that's it I'm never going into the woods again 😂 game over lol.
You have to do what works for you 100%. Me after many years hammock camping & Tarp camping there just something I love about the openness but I don’t judge other for there preferences.
Totally! All that matters is that we're all enjoying ourselves. For what it's worth, I'll probably find myself using tarps again at some point - that's sort of the nature of experimenting with gear setups. Thanks for watching!
I have used about every sort of shelter there is, including a hammock. In the end, a tent is the lightest shelter with the least fidget factor and has ALL the stuff you need to be comfortable in the backcountry, i.e. rain protection, bug protection, wind protection, etc. I take my tarp only when I go with my spouse and we might need a dry area to cook, eat, and hang out in case of rain, though we still have a tent for primary shelter.
My DIY Dyneema floorless one person tent weighs a mere 4.7 ounces, fits in the palm of my hand and is 9 foot long, 4.4 feet wide and 3.6 feet tall with 3 foot entry/exit waterproof zipper and waterproof zippered vent with mosquito netting and hood.
You probably don’t have tent platforms in your area but in the east that is an occasional variable the limits tarp usage. Some people even avoid trekking pole tents because of this
Good point! I haven't come across any wooden tent platforms in this area. Platform anchors look like an interesting option, but I haven't used them at all. zpacks.com/products/aluminum-tent-platform-anchor
Hey Tim. All very valuable points. Especially that today I just got a nice 490g Tarp (strings and poles included). I'm sure a trendy tent like the ZplexSolo is a fabulous piece of gear. I'd really love to have one. But my issue is $$$. My 2nd hand Tarp costs 1/10 of that value. Let'sI see how I use it here in Europe.
Thank you for the comment! This is all just personal preference, and at the moment this is the setup that's right for me, personally, but it could be very different for someone else. And I completely understand - a big part of why I enjoy tarp camping is that it's (usually) significantly less expensive for a nice lightweight setup. All that matters is that your gear is working well for you, and that you enjoy using it!
After hiking with an 8x10 silpoly tarp & a MLD Bug Bivvy2 for years, I 've switched to a Lunar Solo.. What finally did it? After a long day of hiking - especially at altitude - I would struggle with the tarp set up and get frustrated. The tent goes up the same way every time. Also, with the door open - which it always is unless it's raining - I actually see outside more than if I'm in the bivvy under the tarp. Plus, in the tent I can sit up and not worry about bugs. I love the tarp, but as I've gotten older the tent is just more efficient. That being said, I think I'm a better backpacker/camper because of my experience/skills gained by using a tarp. Site selection, dealing with rain and wind . . . you can get lazy with a tent. With a tarp one needs to be diligent.
I've had mice chew through several tents. The really bad part is when they can't get out. I like the fact that tarps can be pitched in places that a tent can't and that they can be adapted so many ways. Not having a muddy tent floor is also a big plus. Generally speaking, I carry trekking poles in my pack for stream crossings or those times I'm really bonking going up hill or when it's slick out. I trimmed down my 45 lb pack of the early 90s years ago. Played around with trying less than 5 lbs and eventually discovered that anything under 20 lbs feels about the same on my back and at the end of the day. The mental effort to drop a few pounds had diminishing returns for me below that.
@@sojourn1544 The reality is that mice at established campsites associate tents with food whether you have any or not. Then again, I've had mice chew my hiking pole straps to get the salt from the sweat.
I am happy with a bivak and a poncho as a mini-tarp. Worked so far. I just never want to sleep in the complete open without any insect protection (after 2x lyme disease. Not recommended).
Thanks for the comment, and glad to hear that it's working well for you? Ticks are still a thing around here (Western Washington), but not anywhere near like when I was living in PA. I've honestly never seen one in the Cascades, although they do exist and I'm sure other people have had a different experience than me, so I don't mind sleeping in the open to much. East Coast, though? Totally different story.
Tents work best for me and my environment because of ease of use, the "mental consistency" (I always know what to take and what my shelter will end up as, regardless of location) and bug protection (very important to me in Florida). I've been on more than a few trips with friends that take tarps and it is absolutely a lot more work and effort.
Totally! I think consistency is a really good way of putting it. As I start getting into longer trips, I just don't want to have to think so much at the end of the day. I suppose you could call me a lazy hiker haha.
Thanks for the tip! Yeah my mid has one, but not my Plex Solo. Having done it with the duomid before I've found that the pitch gets a little wonky I end up having the same issue with site selection (needing to find appropriate trees to run a ridgeline or a branch to throw a line over.)
Good reasons, however a formed tarp like the Yamaha mountain gear cirriform 2p tarp + bivi is the best 3+ season shelter for me since I'm not sure if I want to spend around a 1000 dollar when a 250$ tarp + 150$ bivi has more protection from the weather. I hope the bivi will protect me from the mouse.
Thanks for the comment! I've always been interested in picking one of those up. Totally, the cost of a single walled DCF tent to make the weight argument make sense is no joke. Part of why I started with tarps in the first place was because I could afford them.
I like tents for storage, privacy at certain times (YES, nudity! lol) and it's like a fort. I usually hammock camp, lately, but when I focus on filming more wildlife in the warmer months, a tent is my basecamp - lol. My other channel is mostly nature and wildlife documentaries (sort of Attenborough style, lol) and a tent is so useful, lol
Thanks for the comment, and great points! Yeah, something that I didn't mention but that you don't bring up is that I have a touch of OCD and I like being able to have a tent to spread things out in. I always have this background level of anxiety that I'm going to forget something on the ground.
@@timbschwartz Holy cow!! I do that, too! Thankfully I have gotten used to camping so much when the car is nearbye, I am getting better. I have OCD, too. It can be hellish. Especially focussed on words and talking (go figure). But I sometimes spent hours looking for something I knew I threw out, but then had to verify it. I am less like that now, but it can take a while to leave a campsite sometimes because of the ocd towards things. I try to hide that I do that lol. Thanks for telling me that because....yep. You rock, thanks so much for responding!
As always, excellent video. But I didn’t see any comments about the price difference between a tarp and a dcf shelter. Since I want to shed weight but don’t feel like spending $$$ on dcf, tarps seem like a good option.
How to tarp in the rain, using the tarp as ground floor/bathtub and having a large vestibule for cooking. ruclips.net/video/7d1D0xHvMiY/видео.htmlsi=JJDnpDsU8d1-bj8J
I definitely save 10 ounces or more with a tarp over my zpacks tent. I don't use a bivy or bug netting when I use my tarp, only carry one trekking pole.
I never was a die-hard tarp user, but I used tarps for a while, until I realized that, for me, they had no real advantages and several real disadvantages. I made the switch to tents before the latest fabrics came on the market, back when tarps still boasted notable weight savings, but with the new fabrics weight no longer is a determining factor. Your video was well done: you got to the point and said enough but not too much. If I may make a suggestion, it would be to drop the background music, not so much because at times it interfered with your voice (which it did) but because there is no need to intrude music into every department of life. Most of us go into the backcountry precisely to be away from quotidian sounds, including recorded sounds. The best on-the-trail videos I've seen use no background music; they use ambient sounds and that thing that is particularly rare in cities and towns: silence.
I do a lot of camping in forests of India. After I saw videos of tarps few years ago I did use them few times. I am always scared of snakes with tarps as there is enough space for them to crawl in. Don't you have any snakes in your area?
Hey! We have snakes, but (in theory) none of them are poisonous in my area. I grew up on the East coast of the US where we had lots of rattlesnakes, but I wasn't a tarp camper then. I'd see if you can find anyone local doing the same thing and see if they have any advice about the wildlife in your area. Thanks for watching!
Tarps may have a place in certain geographical regions. In the NE U.S. ticks a real problem (Lime disease), along with critters, bugs, etc. you could not pay me to sleep under a tarp. There’s a notion that you have not achieved backpacking nirvana unless you switch to a tarp.
Thanks for the comment, Alex! I think there's a time a place for all of these tools, and the most important part about taking a crack at tarp camping (where appropriate) is to get over all of the little fears of being outside that don't actually materialize (again, as long as you're using it intelligently.) It really has made a huge difference to my over all comfort level with being alone in the woods. Other than that, the most important thing is that we're all just enjoying our time outside, regardless of what kind of gear we prefer.
Yeah they can certainly be a problem. When I lived on the East coast as a kid I'd come home with dozens of them on me. Fortunately they don't seem to be much of an issue where I live in the Pacific Northwest. I've actually never had one on me out here (that I'm aware of.)
Haha! There's a time and place for all gear, and this is very specific to the conditions that I deal with. Also, I literally just noticed the "mentions" tab like 20 min ago (not kidding), so I'll watch your video while I eat brunch!
A well considered decision -- and considerate, too! I'll share camp with bugs and rodents, even bears, but hiker trash -- c'mon! Gimme the fresh air and views, even if I have to wear a head net and breathe through a balaclava! Now them rodents . . . one guy recently showed his ursack, after a night anchored to a tree, with a mouse-sized hole in it and the other packaging! Everything, pack included, goes at the bottom of the bivy with a couple of mini-strobe lights! ! !
Thanks for the comment! Single walled tents just happen to be significantly lighter than double walled, so for the weight argument, single makes the most sense.
Maaan $600 ??? I'm not sure if i should feel offended that you would even list it in your description, maybe i'm just a poor peasant or i'm not the target audience. I enjoyed the video though, i have been thinking about getting into tarp camping but never thought about the things you brought up so i'm going to try to find a affordable lightweight tent.
Hey! Check out the Mier Lanshan for a more budget friendly option, and tents from Gossamer Gear for mid-range. I don't own either but my friends like them.
I'm a poor peasants also, I'm 6' tall, 200+ lbs. A Wal-Mart kids tent works surprisingly good, weight is minimal and very small. But i also use a tarp, oil cloth/ waterproof bed sheet, for gear, and extra dry space. The mosquitoes here make the open tarp unusable for me if I'm going to get any sleeping 😴
A good sign of intelligence is the ability to change one's mind. Great video.
Thanks for comment, Chris!
My conversion to tents was waking up with a skunk on my chest. He(visually verified) took a bit of sweet talking to convince his departure. Tent wall is now mandatory.
Haha yeah that would about do it for me. Thanks for sharing!
I love cowboy camping in the desert but I'm always afraid a rattlesnake will come cuddle up in my sleeping bag for warmth
Had a lizzard up my pants up to my knee once in Morocco. One of the biggest shocks in my life. Couldn't sleep the rest of the night and was just sitting there. Bivak since then. And after 2x lyme disease.
oh my goodness! Thank you for sharing your experience. I wanted to try a tarp to save weight. However, between the mice and the skunk, I definitely WILL NOT. Most who tarp camp don't share these critter stories. Thank you @dulaneyp for being honest.
@@Eunegin23 Lived in Connecticut for years (home of Lyme disease), guaranteed ticks. No more open air camping for me.
Well said. A tent provides more protection and a simpler experience at a very comparable weight. With a sub 1 lbs tent it's not much weight saved by a tarp. Tarps are fun sometimes but as you say, a tent is just much more versatile.
- Dan
Thanks for watching, Dan! Looking forward to trying out an xmid at some point.
I appreciate the minimalistic yet stylistic video and the reasoning you provide for your change in equipment use. It's interesting to think about how we become attached to gear despite the logic of the context.
Thanks for the kind words!
To identify when we are clinging to something…
Love it! Thanks for this.
Thanks for watching!
I really enjoy your channel!
I generally travel and camp off-trail and never near other people, so I haven't had problems with rodents. I'm highly allergic to them though, so I carry a small vial of strong-smelling essential oil (pine or balsam fir) as repellent. I rub a few drops into a bandana or whatever other clothing or gear the oil won't damage before I go to sleep. Peppermint oil will also work, but I prefer the scent of pine or fir. It reminds me how the forests smelled before all this beetle kill.
I use a single wall tent to keep bugs and rodents out, and because I'm usually above timber line. And of course, in good circumstances, the doors can be left wide open, giving that sense of freedom.
I always learn something from you, and I really appreciate the directness and quality of your videos. Never any annoying hype (or annoying anything for that matter). Thank you!
Thanks for the comment! I really like the essential oil idea. I'm going to have to give that a try!
Hi, I am a die hard tarp guy, but last week I had the experience of a cougar lying in wait for me to come out of my shelter. I spotted it with my headlamp and it ran off, but it made me think. The tarp setup did cramp its style so maybe a tent is a little safer, because it gives the illusion of an enclosed structure.
Glad you're alright! No idea how much of a difference DCF makes to a cougar - they could clearly rip it to shreds to but I'm not sure if they know they can rip it to shreds. I wonder if any research has been done on this topic.
@@timbschwartz I have heard that lions are deterred by tents, they see them as a solid object. Bears, definitely not so much. The cougar had scoped out my site thoroughly and was crouched down behind the closed end of my shelter, so that when I came out of the opening my back would have been to it. It was within 20ft. Definitely ambush predators!
That's a wild story!
@@AndrewSmith-rp6ee The new tarp that I will be making, will be reinforced with pure UHMWPE webbing (1000 lbs) in a X, [], and + pattern, where the UHMWPE cord will only directly connect to the UHMWPE webbing. The tarp fabric itself, is only really just connected to the UHMWPE "frame" and there for water and wind. But all the pulling forces will be primarily on the webbing. The webbing will only add about 3 oz to the total weight.
This means that if it is pitched low and primarily to trees, it would slow down even a grizzly. Note, I said, slow down, not stop. If a grizzly really wants to get to you, not even UHMWPE webbing and cord will truly stop it. But slow down might be good enough in 8 out of 10 situations. Might buy you enough time to get out bear spray or the like.
Btw, for mini bears like mice, peppermint tea and/or essential oil is a really good deterrent. They really don't like the smell of strong mints. We use to have mice problems in one of our food pantry closets, until we started to put peppermint essential oil on some peppermint tea bags and throwing a few or so in there. They completely leave the space after a day or two. It takes them a little longer if they have been chowing down on a liked food, but they will leave and stay away as long as the scent is strong. Spiders and ants also seem to really dislike strong mint as well.
Thankfully I love the smell of mint!
@@justinw1765 thanks for the mint tip, I had never heard of that! That sounds like a pretty skookum tarp, hard to imagine that the extra webbing only adds 3 Oz. For bears, I am very careful to keep food smells out of my shelter and I rarely have any issues. My go to tarp is a 1 lb 10'x10' silpoly tarp that I made, that I set up in a fully enclosed configuration.
I was spooked about using anything but a tent years ago. We pulled up to a trail head late one evening. I was warm, the stars were in full view we decided to cowboy camp. Just after dawn we started packing up and my buddy let out a “WTF”A baby rattle snake was under his backpack.
Yep, been in tents ever since (that was about 25 years ago).
Yeah that'd be enough for me haha
That is literally my worst outdoor fear. I'll stick to tents
A few thoughts.
First, I would never consider trekking poles as extra weight these days, as most backpackers are using them while hiking. They’re usually not carried on the pack and taken out only when pitching a shelter.
When talking tarps, we also need to add in the weight of a ground cloth. Modern lightweight gear is relatively expensive and delicate. The last thing I want to do is get a bunch of trail dust, pine needles, sap, etc. on my quilt, sleeping pad, and sleeping clothes. Tarp + ground cloth + mosquito netting + guy line definitely weighs more than the lightest Zpacks DCF tents.
Even if I’m not using a tarp as my primary shelter, I still often carry a large DCF tarp on hikes, especially group hikes. While, as a solo hiker, I’m fine doing a death march in the rain, only eating a solid breakfast and dinner and subsisting on snacks on the move all day, I find most backpackers still like a formal break for lunch, especially less seasoned or low-mileage backpackers. The DCF tarp doesn’t weigh much on its own, and I can quickly pitch it a-frame style between two trees and use it as a shelter from the weather for four hikers and gear. I’m already carrying the four stakes minimum that I’ll need for my primary shelter, and everyone has a sit pad.
As long as I’m carrying the tarp, when in camp I’ll just pitch it over my non-pyramid tent. If it rains at night, I can often protect the entire tent from any moisture at all. Even the floor stays dry, as long as the ground in camp around my tent doesn’t get over-saturated.
I’m not advocating carrying a tarp and tent as a solo hiker, but in group trips, particularly if you’re the leader with less experienced and less hardened people, the tarp can really enhance the experience for all.
Finally, until you’ve given hammock camping a serious go as a solo hiker I’d encourage you not to get rid of an 8x10 or larger DCF tarp. You’re probably going to be heavier, even with a modular hammock setup focused on minimizing weight, than you would with a Zpacks DCF shelter, but the hammock in areas with trees is usually a lot easier to find a place to pitch, as the slope of the ground underneath is less of a factor. Hammocks have zero condensation, and are cleaner camping options as none of your gear has to come into contact with wet ground.
Hammocks allow for a dry place to cook under in the rain as you have a large tarp overhead, and can pack everything up dry in rainy conditions, except for the tarp. There’s no splash on an inner tent or tent floor covered in wet dirt and pine needles to deal with. No issues with mice chewing holes into your shelter, either.
Since you are hanging below the edges of the tarp, when you wake up you can look all around camp. I see deer, fox, and other critters lounging around camp before they scurry away at the first sound of a vestibule zipper opening. I’ve tarped a lot, and feel that the animals are less spooked and more curious about the hanging burrito, and have thus had way more morning wildlife encounters in camp than I have with a tarp.
There’s definitely a learning curve with a hammock, and that I feel is its biggest negative. In the end, it’s a consistent pitch as you’re just using two trees as a base for an a-frame tarp pitch with 4-6 tie-outs and hanging a piece of fabric between the same two trees. Probably the biggest learning factor is in the tension and slope of the hammock between the two trees, so the fabric doesn’t have any tight ridges once you get inside, which can cause discomfort, limit space for movement, and impede a good night’s sleep. Sleeping in the hammock can also be a challenge, but with proper pitch techniques back and even side sleepers will be happy. Stomach sleepers not so much. As a stomach sleeper, I’m happy to report that in the hammock I can easily fall asleep on my back or side, which I can’t do on my mattress at home. The best part of hammocking is in its regenerative qualities. No matter how stiff my legs and hips are at the end of the prior day, I wake up fully restored. I think this is due to being cradled and suspended all night long. Conversely, in a tent I still feel stiff the next day.
I'm new to camping, having just started last spring. But I do obsess over new hobbies, and have to agree on all points. Being middle aged, I was shocked to find that waking up in my hammock feels better than waking up at home.
Probably an obvious point for you, but for others it's worth noting that a more consistent hammock experience is had with a structural ridgeline. Just a feature to consider if you're shopping.
It's funny, as comfortable as I am in a hammock, I'm sure this video came up because I've been considering trying a tarp as a possible tent replacement just for a fun minimalist weekend.
I’ve seen you comment on the videos quite often now and just wanted to let you know I really appreciate reading all of them. Thanks for dropping so much of your knowledge and experience. Really appreciate it!
I'm really loving the awesome community that we have here on this channel :)
hi🌷
I have to agree with the hammock camping! For sure with back issues! Do you know where to get the best down underquilt w/o spending $300- !? Lmk
Thanks and take care!
🥳 Cheryl
@@cherylmacklin3578for hammocking down to what temp?
You are my go-to guy for the more artisic and esoteric backpacking gear vidoes; so well done and thoughtfully informative.
I have three general modes of trail shelters: Nothing, when the conditions allow for it. This is how I grew up and is still my favorite; a tarp, when rain or snow threatens. Almost always have a mini-tarp and a few stakes with me; and full-on tent (Hilleberg Abisko) when the going is foreseeably rough, like Iceland or Finland.
That being said, the current development of the single-walled Dynema tents have really peaked my interest for all but the roughest conditions. It may change my whole stable of choices even at this stage of my life (I'm 67).
Please keep making your great videos!
Thank you so much for the kind words! I'm glad you're enjoying the videos. And thank you for sharing your setup! Sounds like you have some good options.
Agreed. I’ve done about 3500 miles with a Zpacks tent. I’ve started looking into tarps and have come to the conclusion that modern DCF tents are the better option for all of the reasons that you listed. Weight, ease, and protection are all on the tent’s side in most situations.
This video resulted in me hitting the Subscribe button. Good, well thought out content.
It often use single wall shelters, and sometimes even free-standing tents depending on the trip, but my go-to shelter is a tarp.
I don’t like condensation and find tarps allow for a lot more flexibility when looking for a place to sleep. I’m also much more of a hiker than a camper.
Like you mention though, a lot depends on the trail. If I am camping where there are a lot of people I will probably use a single wall shelters.
Thanks for the video.
Tarping is a fantastic skill to have, whether you use it or not. I hope to take along a small UL tarp WITH my tent this year, and learn some tarp skills going forward. Thank you for another GREAT video!
Thank you for watching!
I backpack a lot and I honestly have never seen anyone use a tarp ever. I hike with my dog and my Duplex works very well and it’s very light. I live in New England and it rains a lot. I can’t imagine trying to stay dry in a tarp.
Thanks for the comment! I've found that in all but the grossest conditions, you actually stay surprisingly dry under a tarp as long as the pitch and site are good. But like I said in the video, sometimes I just don't want to think about it that much, especially if its late.
The Duplex is a great option for 1 plus a pup! My fiancee and I love our Triplex.
If done right, you can actually stay drier in a tarp vs a tent. Primarily because a tarp can be so much better ventilated than a tent, and there is much less condensation build up. But the tarp has to be on the large side or partially shaped (a front beak or the like) and again, site selection is crucial.
Even when I use a tent, I rarely ever use a tent with a dedicated, connected bathtub type floor, but use a floorless pyramid type tent, and usually don't have much issue.
@@justinw1765 I am wondering what part of the country you live in. I hiked the Long Trail this year and it was essentially 20 days of endless rain. One week it rained 17 inches. I am just wondering how that works in a tarp. I get the condensation issue. I guess because I actually never see anyone use a tarp I have no idea how they actually work. I guess after a long day of grinding on the trail I just want to put my tent up, not deal with bugs etc. I always hear on videos how awesome they are and I know Jupiter uses them and he is a hiking machine. Take care
Lived in New England for years. No tarps or cowboy camping for me. Too many ticks. Ticks = Lyme disease, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, and all sorts of other nasty crap. Also too many mosquitoes for about six months of the year.
Also too many chances for rain, unless going in winter. You can get 3 nice days, then 3 days of storms with waves of rain where everything is wet. A tent that has good ventilation (not a single wall) works quite well in such conditions. I'll carry the extra pound, thank you.
It was time for bed, so I picked your video. I was interested in your view on this topic. The bonus was hearing you converse about your experiences. You put me into the space of being in a real forest, and all it's wonder. I began to relax and a smile appeared. Thank you for the peace.
I'm so glad that you enjoyed it! Thank you for watching.
Both. When I visited the BWCA it rained every day. Either a tent or tarp alone would have been miserable. The extra 2 lbs is well worth the added weight.
I'm learning about this all too - So far the tarp seems great as a backup shelter, something to take a nap under on a hike but quickly shows its limitations under repeated or difficult conditions (rain, snow, wind, bugs, etc). I will research and get a backpacking tent for dedicated use and keep experimenting with tarps. No wrong way to do things if you are enjoying your time doing it!
1) my 10x8 tarp is pretty spacious underneath and i love having more room to spread things out and stretch and roll around.
2) for site selection, tarps are way more flexible. I’m surprised you put site selection as a + for tents. Tents are more finicky, esp with uneven ground or if you have a nice spot but a branch is in the way or some other obstacle.
3) if the weather gets REALLY bad, like super strong wind, a tarp wins - you can pitch it really low and cut the wind out of the equation, whereas a tent will just blow over. Jardine discusses this. For just ‘normal’ bad weather, like if you know it will rain and want to hang out in camp with another person, a tent would be more convenient. But life-or-death - I’d rather have the tarp, esp strong wind.
4) a basic A-frame works at the end of a long day - so if you really don’t want to think about it. Seems like finding a sufficiently flat spot for a tent is more difficult. I love my Durston, but my tarp is easier for site selection. I just need to find an area for my actual body to sleep in and it’s ok if the surrounding area is uneven or otherwise problematic. for a tent, you have to be much more careful and need more floor space to consider. Uneven ground or just one obstacle can be a dealbreaker for a tent site.
5) weight - tarp + bug net doesn’t add much. Tarp + bivy is a little more, but the bivy also adds a bit more heat if you need it. So you need to count that as part of the pros of the added bivy weight.
6) as you get older, you’ll find that tarps are way better for getting in and out of, esp for midnight nature calls. After a long day of hiking, older guys can easily strain a muscle just having to make the awkward movements to get in and out of a tent or to change clothes or do other things.
7) ventilation and, therefore, warmth. Never had a condensation issue with a tarp.
I agree the great new tents out there are light enough that weight alone isn’t enough to justify a tarp, but there are other factors to consider. I think you use a smaller tarp than my 10x8 and that’s partly why a tent can be more convenient in many situations. But with a larger tarp, you don’t get much added weight, but you do get much more ease of use and comfort and margin of error.
I see you have a Durston, so you know that there are lightweight tents out there where strong winds really aren’t a concern.
That said, the Durston seems to take the same amount of space needed to land a small helicopter, especially the two-person version.
For point 6, carry a pee bottle. Changing a shirt sitting down isn’t a problem, and I can change my pants and socks lying down. I’m an “old man” so I get the stiffness, and backpacking tends to make a lot of us stiff. I would say looking into Yoga is a good idea as you get stiff in your old age, as a preventative and overall heath improvement.
@@andymytys yeah, I’ve tried a pee bottle but it’s an annoying extra thing, and particularly stinky one. But even with the bottle, better to be standing than kneeling in a tent.
There’s an impressive wind test on YT with the durston, but at some point physics takes over and a tight low pitch tarp will outperform any
Single wall ultralight tent.
Yeah, I do stretches but it’s a whole other ball game after many days of hiking. More electrolytes made a big difference though.
@@RC-qf3mpthe best tarpers don’t just pitch anywhere. They look around camp for things like natural windblocks that can be used as part of their shelter. This is especially true for those using tarps that are less than 8x10 in size. Site selection becomes an important factor.
I would say that, likewise, an experienced backpacker looks at the forecast and takes it into account when looking for a place to pitch. It’s a rookie that pitches on a bald and relies on their tent or tarp to protect them from torrential rains or gale force winds. I’ve yet to be anywhere below treeline where simply walking for an extra 30 minutes won’t find me an ideal spot of some sort to camp in. In most conditions those 30 minutes are 1 to 1.5 miles of ground. Better to stay on trail a little longer than to spend that time fighting the terrain for a stable, storm worthy pitch.
Thus, I see the “but my shelter can handle a tornado” point as more the realm of marketing and rookie realities. An experienced outdoors-person watches conditions as they develop and adjusts plans according to avoid them. The few times when I’ve been caught in an exposed area by a storm I didn’t waste time pitching a shelter, but rather moved to lower ground, found natural shelters (tree groves, boulders, etc), put on my rain gear, and just waited the storm out. The worst conditions of storms rarely last more than an hour. A tarp or tent fly can be used as an improvised bothy if raingear isn’t enough.
When tarping. I try to avoid the low pitch as much as possible, and any tent I use will be side entry with at least 40” of peak headrooom. I don’t like to crawl or roll into and out of my shelter. It’s not a hovel, it’s my home.
Overall, I don’t have to worry about any of the above if I’m in a hammock. I just pitch my 8x10 tarp high for ventilation and make sure the stakes are secure and there are no widowmakers above. The hammock takes up so little horizontal space that even wind driven rain from the side isn’t of concern.
Also. glad to see another viewer who makes well thought, long comments on Tim’s excellent vids.
@@andymytys thanks. I also forgot to add to my #1 on the list…with the larger tarp you can do fully enclosed tarp setups that use part of the tarp as a floor, which can partially act as a bathtub. As long as the water isn’t coming in from all directions, you can block off the water stream. You can also quickly dig a ditch with your shoe so water flows around you. And practicing leave no trace, you fix the ditch before you leave (in case anybody reading wants to nit pick about that). But the bigger tarp has that flexibility. Yeah, dyneema UL tarps could be a bit more fragile but it’s worth mentioning. There are creative fully enclosed tarp configurations out there.
A
Also - you can cook under a tarp, safely and easily.
I have always been a tent camper and am really contemplating going with a tarp instead of the tent for the versatility you do not have with the tent.
Now that there are "screen liners" with bathtub floors very reasonably priced designed to be used with a tarp to have good bug protection makes the idea much more attractive in my opinion.
Just the versatility in set up height, or using one part as a wind break and yes using a ridge line between two trees again is not so bad.
But a couple of adjustable trekking poles can still allow set up minus the trees.
Weight can be kept with the right gear choices not to be a deal breaker really and yes in cold weather I would still prefer the tent as long as its ventilation was well designed to control condensation build up.
All gear choices have their pro's and con's and each different camping scenario may change which is a better fit for that trip.
But if you have both options available you can then choose which one to pack for the next trip.
But the more I think about it the more I think if I could only have one or the other the tarp option gives me so much more versatility in the different ways it can be used or deployed I would go that route over a tent as my only option.
I love tarps too .
But I also love my two man ,
2 trecking pole ,double wall tent . I have a summer liner 3 season . A winter liner 4 season. It is the Lanshan
The tint is tough and it isless than 2lbs . I use trecking poles to hike . I have set it up between trees . Let the gear snobs roar !
It is a great tent .
A sleepmat, bivi or hammock under a tarp is great, but a simple, single pole and reliable tent gives solitude and privacy at the end of a long hike - as we say in the north of England, horses for courses......thanks for opening the debate 😊
I'm loving your channel more and more! Goof stuff here, I just got into tarp camping recently and like it for the reasons you do (knots!) But yeah for true UL the best tents beat the best tarp setups (at least what I bring haha).
Thanks so much for the kind words! I'm glad you're enjoying the channel. Glad to hear tarp camping is going well for you!
I have been having a similar shift in thinking. Been a tarp and bivy camper for years. Had a great work season one year so got a zpacks duplex for the sierra high route and hated it since finding places to set up was a pain. I really mossed the versatility of my tarp. Then i got into hammocking and havent used my zpacks duplex in years. Pulled it out of retirement recently for some winter time glamping with wool blankets in very rainy and buggy conditions and was like damn this is super comfy. It is true that solely based on weight at this point a single wall shelter out performs most tarp bivy or hammock setups. But for pack size and versatility tarp wins especially silnylon. I like to use a large silnylon tarp now over my duplex for extended camps. totally eliminates any misting in the tent during extended storms and provided a huge extended living/cooking area.
Nice! I've done the tarp/tent combo only a couple of times, but it worked like a charm on both occasions. The fiancee and I are going out on a trip in the next couple weeks - I'll take my tarp along with the triplex!
I enjoy both tarp and tent camping. The Plex Solo is amazing. It's crazy light and versatile and also provides protection. I enjoy the openness of tarp camping, so when the weather is good, I just sleep with the vestibule door open. Great choice!!
Looks like we're on the same page!
Two thoughts: 1) The number of stakes needed for set-up are usually greater with a tarp vs a tent further negating the tarp's theoretical weight advantage. In mild weather, I can set up my Skyscape Trekker with as few as 3 stakes. 2) Tents can usually be placed in smaller areas because they have a smaller overall footprint.
Tarp ist the best option for hammock if there are trees. Very versatile regarding steep woodland.
Very solid points. I feel similarly. I keep a tarp/bivy combo for off trail peak bagging type trips where a tent may not fit. With a bivy you can find a 25”x74” relatively flat area almost anywhere.
Good point! All tools have their place.
5:10 - Smart mice. Definitely wise choice of insulation.
Here in Florida it's was a tent for me and then I made a switch. 1st consideration is what ever it is it has to have bug protection. So I made a choice as a teen and went with what might be considered the Red Headed ( outcast ) Step Child of camping back then , the Hammock , a WW2 Jungle Hammock. That was over 60 years ago and I'm still in Jungle hammocks but modern day ones with bug netting and a rain fly ( tarp ) . I have had all sorts of critters walk under my hammock over the years and most of the time they keep going. One morning ( I always looked under the hammock before getting out ) and had 2 Water Moccasins laying there. I stayed in the hammock till they were gently persuaded to move on. Still use a tent now and then when the area requires one.
Thanks for the comment! These are all really good points. I'll use my hammock eventually haha.
Having backpacking shelter options for different use cases makes a ton of sense and really does make it easier to pack and prepare for a trip. So I agree with the sentiment here. I would also add that having a freestanding tent as an option is also really good.
Thanks for the comment, Jeffrey! Glad we're on the same page.
Last month I moved from tarp to tent. Weight is almost the same and my comfort level has gone up significantly.
However, the condensation is more than i’d like.
Great video! 🎉
Thanks for the comment, Joey! Yeah, I don't love the condensation, but I've found the Plex Solo to be roomy enough that I don't bump the walls. Site selection plays an important role here too, but there's only so much you can do to minimize it.
good video. Same conclusion, dcf tarp + waterproof ground sheet + bug protection and critter protection is heavier than a single wall dcf tent. Also the tent is more storm resistant
Glad we're on the same page!
Good video man! Here in the Midwest I only find myself using a tarp for fun, and usually only in late October and in winter time when it's like 20-40 degrees out it's a very small window of opportunity. The bugs will carry you away around here otherwise. A tent is a necessity I find more than a luxury. It's all situation dependent. It's not so much the bugs even that creeps me out but if I wake up with a snake in my sleeping bag some day that's it I'm never going into the woods again 😂 game over lol.
Thanks so much for the kind words! Totally, there's a time and pace for each.
You have to do what works for you 100%. Me after many years hammock camping & Tarp camping there just something I love about the openness but I don’t judge other for there preferences.
Totally! All that matters is that we're all enjoying ourselves. For what it's worth, I'll probably find myself using tarps again at some point - that's sort of the nature of experimenting with gear setups. Thanks for watching!
I have used about every sort of shelter there is, including a hammock. In the end, a tent is the lightest shelter with the least fidget factor and has ALL the stuff you need to be comfortable in the backcountry, i.e. rain protection, bug protection, wind protection, etc. I take my tarp only when I go with my spouse and we might need a dry area to cook, eat, and hang out in case of rain, though we still have a tent for primary shelter.
Completely agree!
Ease of end of day…tent. Thanks for sharing, from East Tennessee.
Thanks for watching!
My DIY Dyneema floorless one person tent weighs a mere 4.7 ounces, fits in the palm of my hand and is 9 foot long, 4.4 feet wide and 3.6 feet tall with 3 foot entry/exit waterproof zipper and waterproof zippered vent with mosquito netting and hood.
Nicely done! Would love to get into making my own gear some day.
You probably don’t have tent platforms in your area but in the east that is an occasional variable the limits tarp usage. Some people even avoid trekking pole tents because of this
Good point! I haven't come across any wooden tent platforms in this area. Platform anchors look like an interesting option, but I haven't used them at all.
zpacks.com/products/aluminum-tent-platform-anchor
@@timbschwartz wow thanks unaware of the product, it could be game changer. Very helpful reply. Most appreciated
Happy to help!
Hey Tim. All very valuable points. Especially that today I just got a nice 490g Tarp (strings and poles included).
I'm sure a trendy tent like the ZplexSolo is a fabulous piece of gear. I'd really love to have one. But my issue is $$$. My 2nd hand Tarp costs 1/10 of that value.
Let'sI see how I use it here in Europe.
Thank you for the comment! This is all just personal preference, and at the moment this is the setup that's right for me, personally, but it could be very different for someone else. And I completely understand - a big part of why I enjoy tarp camping is that it's (usually) significantly less expensive for a nice lightweight setup. All that matters is that your gear is working well for you, and that you enjoy using it!
After hiking with an 8x10 silpoly tarp & a MLD Bug Bivvy2 for years, I 've switched to a Lunar Solo.. What finally did it? After a long day of hiking - especially at altitude - I would struggle with the tarp set up and get frustrated. The tent goes up the same way every time. Also, with the door open - which it always is unless it's raining - I actually see outside more than if I'm in the bivvy under the tarp. Plus, in the tent I can sit up and not worry about bugs. I love the tarp, but as I've gotten older the tent is just more efficient.
That being said, I think I'm a better backpacker/camper because of my experience/skills gained by using a tarp. Site selection, dealing with rain and wind . . . you can get lazy with a tent. With a tarp one needs to be diligent.
Agreed! Glad I know how to use a tarp, but looking forward to switching it up for something that takes a bit less thinking at the end of the day.
You can hang a tent swifter than a tarp if you add a corded loop to its peak, if it has a peak. It can be hung by 8 different or more methods.
hey 🌷- Whatever works best! Great points !
Take care
🥳 Cheryl
Here in Thailand, we need insect and snake protection. So I chose a TENT😂
I've had mice chew through several tents. The really bad part is when they can't get out.
I like the fact that tarps can be pitched in places that a tent can't and that they can be adapted so many ways. Not having a muddy tent floor is also a big plus.
Generally speaking, I carry trekking poles in my pack for stream crossings or those times I'm really bonking going up hill or when it's slick out.
I trimmed down my 45 lb pack of the early 90s years ago. Played around with trying less than 5 lbs and eventually discovered that anything under 20 lbs feels about the same on my back and at the end of the day. The mental effort to drop a few pounds had diminishing returns for me below that.
You must have had snacks in your tent. They can smell snacks a mile away! lol.
@@sojourn1544 The reality is that mice at established campsites associate tents with food whether you have any or not.
Then again, I've had mice chew my hiking pole straps to get the salt from the sweat.
Kudos to your effort 👍
Thanks so much for watching!
Great video.
I am happy with a bivak and a poncho as a mini-tarp. Worked so far. I just never want to sleep in the complete open without any insect protection (after 2x lyme disease. Not recommended).
Thanks for the comment, and glad to hear that it's working well for you? Ticks are still a thing around here (Western Washington), but not anywhere near like when I was living in PA. I've honestly never seen one in the Cascades, although they do exist and I'm sure other people have had a different experience than me, so I don't mind sleeping in the open to much. East Coast, though? Totally different story.
Tents work best for me and my environment because of ease of use, the "mental consistency" (I always know what to take and what my shelter will end up as, regardless of location) and bug protection (very important to me in Florida). I've been on more than a few trips with friends that take tarps and it is absolutely a lot more work and effort.
Totally! I think consistency is a really good way of putting it. As I start getting into longer trips, I just don't want to have to think so much at the end of the day. I suppose you could call me a lazy hiker haha.
What you might wsnt to consider is adding a corded loop at the peak of your tent for supporting it from above by about eight different methods.
Thanks for the tip! Yeah my mid has one, but not my Plex Solo. Having done it with the duomid before I've found that the pitch gets a little wonky I end up having the same issue with site selection (needing to find appropriate trees to run a ridgeline or a branch to throw a line over.)
Bivy Bag plus Gatewood Cape with Nano Mosquito Net .. will do
Good reasons, however a formed tarp like the Yamaha mountain gear cirriform 2p tarp + bivi is the best 3+ season shelter for me since I'm not sure if I want to spend around a 1000 dollar when a 250$ tarp + 150$ bivi has more protection from the weather. I hope the bivi will protect me from the mouse.
Thanks for the comment! I've always been interested in picking one of those up. Totally, the cost of a single walled DCF tent to make the weight argument make sense is no joke. Part of why I started with tarps in the first place was because I could afford them.
I like tents for storage, privacy at certain times (YES, nudity! lol) and it's like a fort. I usually hammock camp, lately, but when I focus on filming more wildlife in the warmer months, a tent is my basecamp - lol. My other channel is mostly nature and wildlife documentaries (sort of Attenborough style, lol) and a tent is so useful, lol
Thanks for the comment, and great points! Yeah, something that I didn't mention but that you don't bring up is that I have a touch of OCD and I like being able to have a tent to spread things out in. I always have this background level of anxiety that I'm going to forget something on the ground.
@@timbschwartz Holy cow!! I do that, too! Thankfully I have gotten used to camping so much when the car is nearbye, I am getting better. I have OCD, too. It can be hellish. Especially focussed on words and talking (go figure). But I sometimes spent hours looking for something I knew I threw out, but then had to verify it. I am less like that now, but it can take a while to leave a campsite sometimes because of the ocd towards things. I try to hide that I do that lol. Thanks for telling me that because....yep. You rock, thanks so much for responding!
As always, excellent video. But I didn’t see any comments about the price difference between a tarp and a dcf shelter. Since I want to shed weight but don’t feel like spending $$$ on dcf, tarps seem like a good option.
Thanks for the comment, Jonathan! That's a very good point, and a big part of why I got into tarp camping in the first place.
Real thorough, but still concrete!
Thanks, Bill! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
People always say, do you worry about bears. I am like “nope - mice are the scariest thing on trail.”
For real! They're absolutely ruthless around here. Thanks for the comment!
I love tarps too, but for sleeping I like the insect protection I get from a tent.
How to tarp in the rain, using the tarp as ground floor/bathtub and having a large vestibule for cooking. ruclips.net/video/7d1D0xHvMiY/видео.htmlsi=JJDnpDsU8d1-bj8J
I definitely save 10 ounces or more with a tarp over my zpacks tent. I don't use a bivy or bug netting when I use my tarp, only carry one trekking pole.
Totally, by itself it's still a huge weight savings.
I take both! It’s not like I’m thru hiking!!!!!!
Thanks for the comment! I've been known to do the same for short or car camping trips.
I never was a die-hard tarp user, but I used tarps for a while, until I realized that, for me, they had no real advantages and several real disadvantages. I made the switch to tents before the latest fabrics came on the market, back when tarps still boasted notable weight savings, but with the new fabrics weight no longer is a determining factor.
Your video was well done: you got to the point and said enough but not too much. If I may make a suggestion, it would be to drop the background music, not so much because at times it interfered with your voice (which it did) but because there is no need to intrude music into every department of life. Most of us go into the backcountry precisely to be away from quotidian sounds, including recorded sounds. The best on-the-trail videos I've seen use no background music; they use ambient sounds and that thing that is particularly rare in cities and towns: silence.
Thanks for the feedback, Karl!
I do a lot of camping in forests of India. After I saw videos of tarps few years ago I did use them few times. I am always scared of snakes with tarps as there is enough space for them to crawl in. Don't you have any snakes in your area?
Hey! We have snakes, but (in theory) none of them are poisonous in my area. I grew up on the East coast of the US where we had lots of rattlesnakes, but I wasn't a tarp camper then. I'd see if you can find anyone local doing the same thing and see if they have any advice about the wildlife in your area. Thanks for watching!
Tarps may have a place in certain geographical regions. In the NE U.S. ticks a real problem (Lime disease), along with critters, bugs, etc. you could not pay me to sleep under a tarp. There’s a notion that you have not achieved backpacking nirvana unless you switch to a tarp.
Thanks for the comment, Alex! I think there's a time a place for all of these tools, and the most important part about taking a crack at tarp camping (where appropriate) is to get over all of the little fears of being outside that don't actually materialize (again, as long as you're using it intelligently.) It really has made a huge difference to my over all comfort level with being alone in the woods. Other than that, the most important thing is that we're all just enjoying our time outside, regardless of what kind of gear we prefer.
The point with mice is invalid since they can easily chew trhough the tent fabric..
The new Plex is 11.8oz, just insane.
Ticks are an increasingly serious problem in my area. For that reason I'll stick to a lightweight tent with sewn in groundsheet.
Yeah they can certainly be a problem. When I lived on the East coast as a kid I'd come home with dozens of them on me. Fortunately they don't seem to be much of an issue where I live in the Pacific Northwest. I've actually never had one on me out here (that I'm aware of.)
I will put food out for the voles when camping in Washington
Critter, bugs flying around all night long, draft, wet, and the list goes on and on.
I post a “here’s my new tarp” video and now you tell me this?
Haha! There's a time and place for all gear, and this is very specific to the conditions that I deal with. Also, I literally just noticed the "mentions" tab like 20 min ago (not kidding), so I'll watch your video while I eat brunch!
@@timbschwartz exactly. I’ve got my duplex for bug season and now a tarp for the spring and fall months
A well considered decision -- and considerate, too!
I'll share camp with bugs and rodents, even bears, but hiker trash -- c'mon! Gimme the fresh air and views, even if I have to wear a head net and breathe through a balaclava! Now them rodents . . . one guy recently showed his ursack, after a night anchored to a tree, with a mouse-sized hole in it and the other packaging! Everything, pack included, goes at the bottom of the bivy with a couple of mini-strobe lights! ! !
Thanks for the comment! I hadn't considered strobe lights! Maybe I'll put some in my car too haha.
You didn't explain why you switched to a tent with one layer and not 2 layers
Thanks for the comment! Single walled tents just happen to be significantly lighter than double walled, so for the weight argument, single makes the most sense.
I identify as a tarp camper/hammok camper is gonna be my my goto pronouns😂❤
you certainly thought this true
Maaan $600 ??? I'm not sure if i should feel offended that you would even list it in your description, maybe i'm just a poor peasant or i'm not the target audience. I enjoyed the video though, i have been thinking about getting into tarp camping but never thought about the things you brought up so i'm going to try to find a affordable lightweight tent.
Hey! Check out the Mier Lanshan for a more budget friendly option, and tents from Gossamer Gear for mid-range. I don't own either but my friends like them.
I'm a poor peasants also, I'm 6' tall, 200+ lbs. A Wal-Mart kids tent works surprisingly good, weight is minimal and very small. But i also use a tarp, oil cloth/ waterproof bed sheet, for gear, and extra dry space. The mosquitoes here make the open tarp unusable for me if I'm going to get any sleeping 😴
@@timbschwartz any thoughts on the MLD cricket with inner net? Would love to see do a review on it. It seems like best of both worlds.
Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself that spending way too much money is a good reason to abandon the tarp. I'm not buying it.