Yep, 4 hours after the fire my friends at Krabi Boat Lagoon asked me... Why are you smiling.... I answered .... Because the fire really wasn't so bad... I could have lost everything, including Aquarius, Now Z and I can continue this journey!
The tip to buy and then also to use a breathing mask is gold, thanks for sharing! It´s maybe a good idea to place a breathing mask next to or together with each fire extinguisher onboard.
Great video Ken and awesome tips! I’m glad you were there when the fire happened that had to be a very scary moment one I’m sure you don’t ever want to repeat. One of my biggest fears would be fire and electrical fire at that with all of the electronics and charging systems on these complex blue water cruising boats. This was very helpful thank you for putting these tips together it makes you really think about the exposure and how to handle it quickly. Safe travels!
I'd love to see a sample of your written fire procedures for one area of your boat. Hopefully, they contain IMMEDIATE ACTION ITEMS, which are mandatory memorized items similar to those contained an aircraft emergency procedure. If I were to start sailing again, I'd develop written emergency procedures and put them into a checklist and have a copy for everyone on board. And as you said, drill drill drill.
Thanks a lot for sharing your lessons learned. What I have installed in my engine room is the MABO automatic fire extinguisher. It is a simple glas tube with a liquid in it that when heated up will burst and 'kill' the fire quickly. For us here in The Netherlands its just about 90 euros (roughly $100) and it will give an extra safety net besides other measures.
I have a Seek Reveal thermal camera. I use it to check for leaks (cold) and to look at active wiring (hot). This is a great device on a boat for a variety of reasons. I agree its an invaluable tool.
Ken, that must have been really scary. Glad to see you were there and able to control things before it was too late. My boat has the same white box as Aquarius. When I bought it the outlet of direct 220 v showed some heat damage. I replaced it with a new one and so far so good. However, this makes me think that the outlet may not be capable of running all the current that we tend to use. In fact, the plug/outlet is rated for 20 amp that at 220 V is only 4.4 kW. This is compatible with the AC shore power connectors/cables that run only 20 amp and 220 V. Although we actually plug into the 50 amp outlets of American marinas, we take the cables between two faces to get the 220 volts. The 110 V boats using these plugs have much larger gauge cables because they actually take 50 amp between two faces and the common. Granted you were only using ~3KW but that is assuming that the efficiency of the Chargers was close to 100%. So you may not have been that far from the 4.4 kW plug rating. and that combined with a defective plug/outlet connection and/or a small cable could be a formula for disaster. I don't know if your boat is that different from mine but if not, the switch relay for the Genset is located beyond the white box between the plug and the breakers box on the saloon and not as you display on your drawing before the white box. ( you can download a sketch of my circuit from the Amel owners group site) . I know that for my boat that is a fact because I added a third outlet to the white box for a 5 kW inverter that I installed. With this system, I can run the Genset even if the plug is connected to the inverter outlet. If it was like you show, it would not have run power from the Genset because the plug would have not been connected to the shore power 220 outlet. Also, our Genset is rated at 7.5 KW and can put out that power that far exceeds the 4.4 kW of the outlets. This is why the main breaker on the AC circuit breakers box in the saloon is rated to 10 KW since it can run off the Genset. In addition to your valuable suggestions, I learned a few lessons from your experience, 1) When connected to shore power, or using my inverter, I should never run equipment with more than 4.4 kW or run the Genset instead. If I am running the battery chargers, ( I have one 60 amp and one 100 amp) from shore power everything else must be disconnected. Even better, never use the 100 amp charger from shore power; there is no need to charge the batteries fast in a marina! 2) when running high-power consuming devices I should check if the plug is cool and test the resistance of the plug outlet periodically, 4) I installed a power meter to measure the current and power coming from shore power or the inverter, and that being generated by the Genset. That is the power going to the plug and a second one for the power going into the main breaker of the AC breaker box in the saloon. 5) check periodically the automatic fire extinguisher in the engine room. I noted you have now one installed, didn't it work during the fire? Thank you for sharing your experience and good travels Jose Gabriel Venegas (Ipanema SM2K #278)
Hi Jose, The fire didn't get large enough for the auto extinguisher to engage the fire. Very happy about that! When I get everything rewired my genset and shore power will have manual switches (might do automatic) but everything will go the same path. I will also have all the wires gadget for 10KW, and will sleep comfortably! Now I do what you say, try not to use more than 4KW. But, everything is working pretty good, and very happy with the batteries!!
My heart sunk when I saw this!! Click bait, very scary. Yes, it was a very good idea to share your experience. Excellent tips, I’m sure this video will help prevent and instruct what to do incase of a fire he masks and the blindfold drill are an excellent idea. Enjoy the Seychelles very good video!🧜🏻♂️🧜♀️👍🏻👏❤️
Ken, the smartest act you performed was disconnecting the electric. I am a believer in having an automatic Halotron Fire Fighting System in the engine room. Certainly you saved your boat. Thank you for sharing this video. A fire is a scary thing aboard any vessel, you kept a cool head and put out the fire. In addition to the smoke hood for everyone aboard, I recommend a fire blanket which can be a very effective fire fighting tool in a small area, such as the galley. I am glad both you and your wife are safe, and you can continue with your wonderful adventures. Safe sailing.
Hi Ken, We have 2 smoke detectors on the boat . Original we installed one at the kitchen but the alarm went off every time we boiled water ( Spagetti …) Now we have them close to the engine room and at the cabins. Very Easy installation and cheap to buy I like all your videos, specifically the teck on Tuesday All the best Klaus
Great video! Many people watch ur channel to see the good,bad and ugly. I don’t understand why you said you almost didn’t make this video? Please keep it real to keep viewers like me and many others. We don’t want a commercial reality tv show. Love Tuesdays!
Thank goodness everything turned out alright for all concerned. Wow, wow, wow. This was an EXCELLENT video on fire safety. Thank you for sharing this with us. Sooooo helpful.
@@SailingAquarius LOL, thanks....I'm a nice grumpy old man who spent 30 years working on the high seas doing scientific exploration work. There's something about the ocean that calls you back, even after 30 years, and retired.
Really great video and has to be one of the most valuable sailing videos to watch for would be cruisers or those already enjoying this lifestyle. Makes one wonder how many of the less experienced cruisers and novice RUclipsrs out there have the proper safety and firefighting equipment on board or if they do have at least some of the most important items, if they have taken time to put together a fire fighting plan such as you describe or are familiar with how to actually deploy the fire fighting or safety equipment that they might be carrying on board.
Thankfully there was not much damage to Aquarius, but that fire scared the crXp out of me! Just want people to know - if you can't get to a fire, you can't put it out. Fair winds Michael!
One way to make a boat’s shore power system way safer is to replace the boat’s original main AC breaker with an Equipment Leakage Circuit Interrupter (ELCI) breaker, which will not only trip if the circuit is overloaded but also trip if there is any leakage back to ground, which will go a long way to ameliorating the risks. ELCI, is capable of sensing faults in a vessel's AC electrical system, where it will turn off power before a fire or injury can occur. With few exceptions ABYC and CE-compliant vessels must be equipped with this component.
I have been looking at breakers, and I have made a breaker box that I am going to use between shore power and the boat. I'm researching the different type of breakers to put in it now.. They have a dual GFI/(ARC Fault Interrupter) breaker would be the best. Do you have a different opinion? Please let me know. Ken
@@SailingAquarius I must admit electrical is a weak area for me I generally know enough to know to seek ABYC professionals I trust to do the work. From what I understand the difference between your standard GFI is that a ELCI monitors all the power going to a boat (if it's mounted in a pedestal) or coming from shore (if it's mounted on the boat) and ensures the same amount of current is returning on neutral as delivered on hot. A GFCI protects an individual outlet or circuit. Think of an ELCI as a Ground Fault Interrupter (GFI) for the whole boat that will, (assuming that the boat’s AC ground is fully bonded to her underwater metals), trip if the live wire shorts to the case of any equipment, even if the shore power ground wire is disconnected. I have one from Blue Sea. I like that the unit has a built-in reverse polarity tester ( I regularly test daily) which will back up the one on the main panel at the chart table on my boat. Along with an Isolation Transformers, In the past they were only found on metal boats, usually aluminum, but recently isolation transformers have become more readily available, less expensive, quieter, and lighter, and so should be considered for any boat, particularly ones that will be on shore power a lot and have vulnerable underwater metals.
@@SailingAquarius Update; ABYC exempts isolation transformer-equipped boats from fitting an ELCI (ABYC 11.11.1), but I now-yes changed my mind and that’s why the update-don’t agree with that and suggest that even with an isolation transformer an ELCI should be installed on the vessel side of transformer and at the output of generators and inverters. It’s even worth installing one as close as possible to the shore power inlet plug on the shore side of the transformer as well.
@@SailingAquarius Let's break it down to 8 checks we can do. #1 Check That All Batteries Are Fused. #2 Check That All Conductors Are Protected. # 3 Check That The Fuse Is The Right End. #4 Check That Fuses Have Not Been Bypassed. #5 Check That Alternator Sense and Output Conductors Can’t Be Separated. #6 Check For Voltage Drop To Sense Wire. #7 Join and Follow ABYC. #8 Understand Ohm’s Law.
I was a Firefighter/Paramedic Back in the 80s....and We Trained Every Day...SOME times we would Put the SCBA and Mask on and put paper towels in the mask so we could not see.....searching for a victim blinded was Good Training for later DRILL DRILL DRILL Memorize Memorize....We Laid on our Backs under the fire Engine and Studied and Drew Diagrams of the Pumps and Pipe routes TRAINING is the key....Great Job Ken Yea the Smaller wire Not connected good could have arched and caused the fire GOOD SAVE🙏🙏🙏🙏
Excellent content, Ken. Reminds me of the burning battery smell we had on Karl's boat after the San Diego to Ensenada race, due to bad shore power. Stay safe.
Yes, a Halon fire suppression system is a must for the engine compartment. Also corrosion block on all electrical connections, first insuring wire size is proper and connections are tight. A high pressure hose for topsides fires would be a good idea. For galley fires an ABC fire extinguisher is recommended.
😲🥵 awesome video 👍 and well done for controlling the damage and acting swiftly and safely. Sorry for any inconveniences and loss 😢. I wish you the VERY BEST ✌❤🍀
Ken, as a future Amel owner, I really appreciate your in depth and logical videos. I'd love to know what you did by way of occupation (I'm thinking engineer/risk management) as you take a systematic and logical approach to risk prevention foremost and cure second. Bummer about the fire but a valuable lesson learned (for you and me). Fair winds.
I was an Electrical Engineer. Glad you enjoyed it. Please share the video with others that might enjoy it! Fair Winds to you, and hope our paths cross somewhere in the Big Blue!
Ken, a lot of the Super Maramu’s I’ve seen have a Clean Agent (eg Halon although that is getting hard to get due to the greenhouse gas emissions issue) or Fireboy type system that can be triggered by heat and remotely at the helm station or in the passageway by the fuel shut off. A smoke and CO detector could also have alerted you before your nose did. As you have undoubtedly discovered, non clean agent firme systems can leave quite a mess on sensitive components and engines. Obviously better than losing the boat but something else to consider.
Hi Ken, someone mentioned a loose connection as cause. Agreed that could be it. Also, if the wire gauge was smaller than it should have been and then the crimped contact on the end of the wire and the mating connector were not the correct type, you could end up with a high resistance section (a loose connection will have the same result). With the loads drawing a certain amount of power, a high resistance section will lead to greater voltage drop and even more current. This can create a runaway condition of increasing current where the high resistance section just gets too hot and then the plastic connector may melt or smoke and it seems that ultimately, something reached the point where combustion occurred. I'm glad you were able to disconnect power quickly and stop the spread.
Solid tips! I found a bad connection in one of the 110v AC outlets in my house... I noticed it sparked when I plugged something in, took it apart, and about 2" of wire was charred. I went through and checked all of them in my house and found a few more loose connections. Scary stuff.
Great video. I would think that your first step in your fire plan would be to put the mask on. Once your breathing and sight are protected from all the fumes, smoke and heat, then you could more quickly address the other shutdowns and extinguisher. Plus, burning wire coating, fiberglass, varnish, etc. is a lot of noxious fumes that can hurt eyes and especially lungs permanently.
While it can look like a bad connection or wiring on the back of the socket as the cause, often it's oxidation between plug and socket that causes resistance then arcing between plug and socket that then heats and burns the socket housing and wiring. An Arc Fault Circuit Breaker or Detection Device would likely have tripped. Non of the wiring your showed looked tinned though and is prone to corroding inside terminals, make sure you use tinned marine wire on the rebuild. The mask at the extinguisher is also great advice.
Yes, this could have been the problem as well. But, I think it was more likely the connection with the undersized wire. Note that all the other connections are made properly, and they even have a special insert soldered to the end of the wire that goes into the high power connector. But not the one installed by the dude. I didn't know about Arc Fault Circuit Breakers, and will be looking to install one if they work like I think they do... In fact, I may just do a video about them. Best Regards, and thanks for the advice! Ken
First disconnect battery. Put on respirator. THEN grab fire extinguisher. Every boat need a trip both sides of the hull line to a spring loaded battery switch, so all you need do is to GRAB and PULL. Then you know the usual cause is removed--the rest is damage control.
Smoke with burned Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) is usually the cause of that "sick feeling"....and is killer if enough is breathed in. Excellent video!! Wiith good info.
Not sure if the fire would have spread, but if it got much bigger the Automatic Fire Extinguisher in the engine room should have put it out. Thankfully the fire was small and the Auto Fire was not set off. But, everything worked out in the end. That junction box that I was thinking to remove, was burned up. I am going to wait until I get to a 110VAC marina and sell that 110V to 220V transformer, and install a really nice 80V to 240V battery charger that will work anywhere around the world! Best, Ken
Luces cabinas varios térmicos independientes, así con cada consumo individual, recuerda hay para corriente continua DC y corriente alterna AC y con diferentes consumos en los dos modos, en DC también hay fusibles rearmables por consumo
Had the same lousy experience with Electricians in Phuket. Which did even include a "Frank". Yet there are some more items to consider. We can discuss once you are coming to Dar
@@SailingAquarius Tanga Yacht Club is a great place. And there is plenty to explore nearby, both on the water and onshore! Than there is Pemba, a bit tricky with the authorities, but very very nice. Not to mention Zanzibar, again easy easy. And if bored Mafia is waiting for you.
Buenas Deberías hacer como en embarcaciones más modernas Colocar en cada consumo y térmico de igual consumo contando con pico de arranque medido con amperimetro
Ken, apologies, but new to the channel and so I am watching these out of order. Did this fire result from the electrical work done for your battery upgrade? I was interested in the comments regarding insurance coverage for boats with Lithium on your battery upgrade video.
Not really... The fire was due to a bad connection on the AC wiring which was changed to include a new inverter. At the time of the fire the inverter was not energized.
Great video, great advice. With your Lithium setup and increased efficiency have you evaluated the efficiency of your air con and refrigeration units? I assume yours are original, are split gas devices with one central unit in engine room and separate condensers available and affordable? Such a setup should provide better dehumidification and efficiency should have improved Finally who did u get to insure boat with Li batteries?
AirCon - We have three separate AC units that are water cooled. Bow cabin, Salon, and aft cabin. Also we have a portable AC unit that blows hot air out a window. For insurance call - Matt Slatter Steve Slatter Insurance Brokers (Pty) Ltd Authorised Financial Service Provider FSP No. 10663 17 Lynn Ave, Glenashley South Africa, 4051 Phone : +27 31 5628320 Fax : +27 31 5628087 Mobile : 0826551402 e-mail : matt@ssib.co.za www.ssib.co.za
Great tips, the question I have is if your fuse is rated for 30 amps how much bigger should the wire be in general. I know their are charts out there but I am talking about in general. Ex. Next size up 1.5, 2 times bigger? I think this would be good knowledge to know even in a house setting.
House, boat, electrons move the same in wires. So, in the video I put a wire gauge map... 06:58 take a look at it. Give the size of the wire knowing the current, and length. Cheers, Ken
Smoke hoods are a very good idea...its usually the smoke that kills people in fires.... burning plastics from wiring tubing etc and plastic based sound insulation are all problematic. As are soft furnishings. I dont know how those wires were fitted to back of the plug but if they were a screw fixing they can heat and cool in time they can work loose ... Ditto a small amount of corrosion on the blades and spades can increase the resistance across the connection causing a build up in heat. Ive seen it melt connector blocks on cars....its not always green either copper oxide is black and doesnt conduct electricity well if at all. Glass fiber will burn ultimately ...see the barefoot doctors channel... When they lost their 1yr old Leopard.. The smoke is not only toxic containing cyanides so thats why your lungs give up its also highly irritating to the eyes and mucous membranes. The final risk is certain plastics contain flurine compounds they actually produce Hydroflurosylic acid... Which passes through the skin and flesh to attack the bones underneath.. UK firemen dealing with extinguished vehicle fires always ware protective gloves. By comparison cork is benign if you can even get it to smoke and treated its remarkably fire proof rot resistant anti bacterial and a renewable resource.... ruclips.net/video/YdSWJypDSbI/видео.html ruclips.net/video/uir_RUjVGQw/видео.html In high risk areas its best to have extinguisher systems plumbed in to high risk areas via fire wire system as on race cars ...a pressurised plastic tube placed round the engine bay ruptures closest to the heat source and floods the compartment with extinguisher contents... The other route is to have a small port you can fire the extinguisher into the compartment through without opening a hatch or door...as that can allow an inrush of O2 and trigger a flashover ... The smoke represents unburned fuel ...if the fires restricted by the limited air in the compartment opening it will result in an explosive expansion of the fire through the air... You dont open a cars bonnet till youve got enough extinguisher contents in under it till its out or nearly and you better have the right type and a spare on hand. 🔥🔥🔥 Best read up on avoiding flashovers or backdrafts as they call them in the US. Feel for heat with the back of your hand ...if you cannot see due to smoke or no light search with the back of your hands... Intense burning will will cook up your muscles and ligaments making it difficult to let go of anything really hot particularly metal handles... Dripping Plastics will stick to your skin and burn like napalm if ignited ...i nearly lost a finger as a kid due to that one.... ditto a fire below can heat up the deck and burn feet or melt plastic footware. Sometimes all you can do is get off the boat ASAP and if your off shore launch a life raft and grab an e-purb. If a fire starts at the back of the boat or in the galley can you get out a hatch at the front of the boat on your own or in the dark with the boat full of smoke. Rechargable items have also caused boat fires ...dont leave them on charge at night ...put them in a tin box insulated from any surface that might catch fire if a fire starts in the tin box. .. fit smoke detectors as well as carbon monoxide detector at sleeping or seating level... It sinks and builds up in the bilges and at floor level ...heat and smoke rises.. so they should be fixed high up.but not above a cooker or near a solid fuel fire.
Yes, of course, if there is no load you really can't check it with the thermal image camera. But, you could make sure the connections are clean and tight, that would probably repair 99 percent of the problems.. Ken
Also, it would have been good to hit it with a CO2 extinguisher. But, beware, you might not be able to breath, so good ventilation would be good. Or stay out of the room with the fire and shoot into the room with the fire. That's what I did due to the smoke in the engine room..Ken
Smoke detector , Had a bad experience in Phuket from a workers slackness , Nearly sunk the boat on the way down to Singapore , He didn't clamp the genset cooling inlet , Just pushed it on with mastic (2inch pipe) 3 ft below the waterline & BEHIND the Genset . So any work done must be verified & Checked by you or some one who has the certification for the job .
I think it was a loose connection… A loose connection generates considerable heat right where the wires and connectors are ‘loose’ Did you ever notice that if your main battery terminal is loose, and your engine won’t crank over, The lug on the battery is loose, and hot!
Hi from Iceland use full size 10kg fire bottle and have 3 this are to small it cant be more dissapointed then almost kill fire and botle is emty and use Halon ore co2 not powder I have fire on me boat and I will never use powder agene all inside engine room was dust and even clean all is mat and dust many years after you need to strip all the room to clean I am ship service mechanic fore 35 yers I have fight with fire 3 time and this is no joke in ship
You really should name and shame the AmeriCan't electrician at Phuket Yacht Haven Marina Thailand. Also consider sourcing fire rated electrical junction boxes and replace your engine bay sound attenuation panels with fire rated acoustic foam such as melamine foam (aka Basotect).
Super great video. Everyone who owns a boat needs to watch this video. Boy oh boy were you fortunate this wasn't a catastrophe.
Yep, 4 hours after the fire my friends at Krabi Boat Lagoon asked me... Why are you smiling.... I answered .... Because the fire really wasn't so bad... I could have lost everything, including Aquarius, Now Z and I can continue this journey!
Exceptional advice to drill and do it blindfolded and Understanding how to accomplish the needed steps under some stress.
Absolutely!
The tip to buy and then also to use a breathing mask is gold, thanks for sharing! It´s maybe a good idea to place a breathing mask next to or together with each fire extinguisher onboard.
Thanks Karl, Fair Winds!
@@SailingAquarius agree! we’ve just purchased two and will be developing and practicing our own drill procedure
I would probably overdo it and have 2 masks in each cabin + 2 in the salon … never know..
Great video Ken and awesome tips! I’m glad you were there when the fire happened that had to be a very scary moment one I’m sure you don’t ever want to repeat. One of my biggest fears would be fire and electrical fire at that with all of the electronics and charging systems on these complex blue water cruising boats. This was very helpful thank you for putting these tips together it makes you really think about the exposure and how to handle it quickly. Safe travels!
Glad you enjoyed it, I learned a lot making the video and living the fire! Fair Winds!
A real eye opener. Reviewing information is important. Safety is no accident. Thanks for heads up.
I'd love to see a sample of your written fire procedures for one area of your boat. Hopefully, they contain IMMEDIATE ACTION ITEMS, which are mandatory memorized items similar to those contained an aircraft emergency procedure. If I were to start sailing again, I'd develop written emergency procedures and put them into a checklist and have a copy for everyone on board. And as you said, drill drill drill.
Thanks a lot for sharing your lessons learned.
What I have installed in my engine room is the MABO automatic fire extinguisher. It is a simple glas tube with a liquid in it that when heated up will burst and 'kill' the fire quickly. For us here in The Netherlands its just about 90 euros (roughly $100) and it will give an extra safety net besides other measures.
Thanks for the Tip! Ken
Thank you for sharing your experience. This is fundamental to know.
Thank you for watching
I have a Seek Reveal thermal camera. I use it to check for leaks (cold) and to look at active wiring (hot). This is a great device on a boat for a variety of reasons. I agree its an invaluable tool.
Ken, that must have been really scary. Glad to see you were there and able to control things before it was too late. My boat has the same white box as Aquarius. When I bought it the outlet of direct 220 v showed some heat damage. I replaced it with a new one and so far so good. However, this makes me think that the outlet may not be capable of running all the current that we tend to use. In fact, the plug/outlet is rated for 20 amp that at 220 V is only 4.4 kW. This is compatible with the AC shore power connectors/cables that run only 20 amp and 220 V. Although we actually plug into the 50 amp outlets of American marinas, we take the cables between two faces to get the 220 volts. The 110 V boats using these plugs have much larger gauge cables because they actually take 50 amp between two faces and the common. Granted you were only using ~3KW but that is assuming that the efficiency of the Chargers was close to 100%. So you may not have been that far from the 4.4 kW plug rating. and that combined with a defective plug/outlet connection and/or a small cable could be a formula for disaster. I don't know if your boat is that different from mine but if not, the switch relay for the Genset is located beyond the white box between the plug and the breakers box on the saloon and not as you display on your drawing before the white box. ( you can download a sketch of my circuit from the Amel owners group site) . I know that for my boat that is a fact because I added a third outlet to the white box for a 5 kW inverter that I installed. With this system, I can run the Genset even if the plug is connected to the inverter outlet. If it was like you show, it would not have run power from the Genset because the plug would have not been connected to the shore power 220 outlet. Also, our Genset is rated at 7.5 KW and can put out that power that far exceeds the 4.4 kW of the outlets. This is why the main breaker on the AC circuit breakers box in the saloon is rated to 10 KW since it can run off the Genset.
In addition to your valuable suggestions, I learned a few lessons from your experience, 1) When connected to shore power, or using my inverter, I should never run equipment with more than 4.4 kW or run the Genset instead. If I am running the battery chargers, ( I have one 60 amp and one 100 amp) from shore power everything else must be disconnected. Even better, never use the 100 amp charger from shore power; there is no need to charge the batteries fast in a marina! 2) when running high-power consuming devices I should check if the plug is cool and test the resistance of the plug outlet periodically, 4) I installed a power meter to measure the current and power coming from shore power or the inverter, and that being generated by the Genset. That is the power going to the plug and a second one for the power going into the main breaker of the AC breaker box in the saloon. 5) check periodically the automatic fire extinguisher in the engine room. I noted you have now one installed, didn't it work during the fire?
Thank you for sharing your experience and good travels
Jose Gabriel Venegas (Ipanema SM2K #278)
Hi Jose, The fire didn't get large enough for the auto extinguisher to engage the fire. Very happy about that! When I get everything rewired my genset and shore power will have manual switches (might do automatic) but everything will go the same path. I will also have all the wires gadget for 10KW, and will sleep comfortably! Now I do what you say, try not to use more than 4KW. But, everything is working pretty good, and very happy with the batteries!!
My heart sunk when I saw this!! Click bait, very scary. Yes, it was a very good idea to share your experience. Excellent tips, I’m sure this video will help prevent and instruct what to do incase of a fire he masks and the blindfold drill are an excellent idea. Enjoy the Seychelles very good video!🧜🏻♂️🧜♀️👍🏻👏❤️
Thanks for the nice comment! Fair Winds.
Ken, the smartest act you performed was disconnecting the electric. I am a believer in having an automatic Halotron Fire Fighting System in the engine room. Certainly you saved your boat. Thank you for sharing this video. A fire is a scary thing aboard any vessel, you kept a cool head and put out the fire. In addition to the smoke hood for everyone aboard, I recommend a fire blanket which can be a very effective fire fighting tool in a small area, such as the galley. I am glad both you and your wife are safe, and you can continue with your wonderful adventures. Safe sailing.
Thanks Captain Berger, Ken
Hi Ken,
We have 2 smoke detectors on the boat . Original we installed one at the kitchen but the alarm went off every time we boiled water ( Spagetti …) Now we have them close to the engine room and at the cabins.
Very Easy installation and cheap to buy
I like all your videos, specifically the teck on Tuesday
All the best
Klaus
Hi Klaus, I bought a pack of 6 smoke detectors in the USA and have them all over the boat. Also a propane/gas detector in the kitchen.
Ken
Great video! Many people watch ur channel to see the good,bad and ugly. I don’t understand why you said you almost didn’t make this video? Please keep it real to keep viewers like me and many others. We don’t want a commercial reality tv show. Love Tuesdays!
Thanks, that is a very nice comment indeed! Ken
Thank goodness everything turned out alright for all concerned. Wow, wow, wow. This was an EXCELLENT video on fire safety. Thank you for sharing this with us. Sooooo helpful.
Man, you ain't so Grumpy! I hope this video helps some of the sailors out there be a bit more safety conscious with electrons. Best Ken
@@SailingAquarius LOL, thanks....I'm a nice grumpy old man who spent 30 years working on the high seas doing scientific exploration work. There's something about the ocean that calls you back, even after 30 years, and retired.
Really great video and has to be one of the most valuable sailing videos to watch for would be cruisers or those already enjoying this lifestyle. Makes one wonder how many of the less experienced cruisers and novice RUclipsrs out there have the proper safety and firefighting equipment on board or if they do have at least some of the most important items, if they have taken time to put together a fire fighting plan such as you describe or are familiar with how to actually deploy the fire fighting or safety equipment that they might be carrying on board.
Thankfully there was not much damage to Aquarius, but that fire scared the crXp out of me! Just want people to know - if you can't get to a fire, you can't put it out. Fair winds Michael!
thanks for the idea. I didn't think about it. safety is very important.
Glad it was helpful!
Now that's a Tip on Tuesday I really appreciate! Thanks, and I changed a number of things on my boat!
I am glad that this video may have helped! Ken
Very good, very thorough. Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it! But there is so much more to discuss about this subject, but so little time. Ken
Ken!!! It's your old friend Saleem. I'm loving the journey!! I have been saving to buy a Catamaran. Looking to be on the water 2024.
Hi Saleem, I think about you now and again! Hope all is well! Are you still in SD? Ken
Dude, I will probably be in SD this summer - Lets get together!
Absolutely excellent...thanks so much. Safety first!
You're welcome!
Good information. You were lucky you were onboard to put the fire out. I use a FLIR camera connected to my smartphone to check electrical connections.
Nice! Thanks for the input. Ken
video audio atleast this one is well done. I want to dig deeper. Godspeed Aquarius.
Glad you enjoyed. But are you implying that the other videos don't have good sound :(
One way to make a boat’s shore power system way safer is to replace the boat’s original main AC breaker with an Equipment Leakage Circuit Interrupter (ELCI) breaker, which will not only trip if the circuit is overloaded but also trip if there is any leakage back to ground, which will go a long way to ameliorating the risks. ELCI, is capable of sensing faults in a vessel's AC electrical system, where it will turn off power before a fire or injury can occur. With few exceptions ABYC and CE-compliant vessels must be equipped with this component.
I have been looking at breakers, and I have made a breaker box that I am going to use between shore power and the boat. I'm researching the different type of breakers to put in it now.. They have a dual GFI/(ARC Fault Interrupter) breaker would be the best. Do you have a different opinion? Please let me know. Ken
@@SailingAquarius I must admit electrical is a weak area for me I generally know enough to know to seek ABYC professionals I trust to do the work. From what I understand the difference between your standard GFI is that a ELCI monitors all the power going to a boat (if it's mounted in a pedestal) or coming from shore (if it's mounted on the boat) and ensures the same amount of current is returning on neutral as delivered on hot. A GFCI protects an individual outlet or circuit. Think of an ELCI as a Ground Fault Interrupter (GFI) for the whole boat that will, (assuming that the boat’s AC ground is fully bonded to her underwater metals), trip if the live wire shorts to the case of any equipment, even if the shore power ground wire is disconnected. I have one from Blue Sea. I like that the unit has a built-in reverse polarity tester ( I regularly test daily) which will back up the one on the main panel at the chart table on my boat. Along with an Isolation Transformers, In the past they were only found on metal boats, usually aluminum, but recently isolation transformers have become more readily available, less expensive, quieter, and lighter, and so should be considered for any boat, particularly ones that will be on shore power a lot and have vulnerable underwater metals.
@@SailingAquarius Update; ABYC exempts isolation transformer-equipped boats from fitting an ELCI (ABYC 11.11.1), but I now-yes changed my mind and that’s why the update-don’t agree with that and suggest that even with an isolation transformer an ELCI should be installed on the vessel side of transformer and at the output of generators and inverters. It’s even worth installing one as close as possible to the shore power inlet plug on the shore side of the transformer as well.
@@SailingAquarius Let's break it down to 8 checks we can do. #1 Check That All Batteries Are Fused. #2 Check That All Conductors Are Protected. # 3 Check That The Fuse Is The Right End. #4 Check That Fuses Have Not Been Bypassed. #5 Check That Alternator Sense and Output Conductors Can’t Be Separated. #6 Check For Voltage Drop To Sense Wire. #7 Join and Follow ABYC. #8 Understand Ohm’s Law.
I was a Firefighter/Paramedic Back in the 80s....and We Trained Every Day...SOME times we would Put the SCBA and Mask on and put paper towels in the mask so we could not see.....searching for a victim blinded was Good Training for later DRILL DRILL DRILL Memorize Memorize....We Laid on our Backs under the fire Engine and Studied and Drew Diagrams of the Pumps and Pipe routes TRAINING is the key....Great Job Ken Yea the Smaller wire Not connected good could have arched and caused the fire GOOD SAVE🙏🙏🙏🙏
Thanks for your input! Being a Firefighter your input means alot! Fair Winds. Ken
🥰🥰👍👍@@SailingAquarius
Excellent content, Ken. Reminds me of the burning battery smell we had on Karl's boat after the San Diego to Ensenada race, due to bad shore power. Stay safe.
Hi Bill. Should be in San Diego this summer. We'll have to get out on your boat.. :)
Hi Ken, very good Video, and I learnt a lot. Thank you. I am very happy for you that you discovered this before it became a desaster. Safe travels …
Thanks for watching our channel! Z and Ken
Yes, a Halon fire suppression system is a must for the engine compartment. Also corrosion block on all electrical connections, first insuring wire size is proper and connections are tight. A high pressure hose for topsides fires would be a good idea. For galley fires an ABC fire extinguisher is recommended.
Thanks for the tips! Ken
Wouldn’t rush to put a halon system as they’ve been banned on boats for over 20 years 😳 and were supposed to have been replaced long ago.
😲🥵 awesome video 👍 and well done for controlling the damage and acting swiftly and safely. Sorry for any inconveniences and loss 😢. I wish you the VERY BEST
✌❤🍀
Thanks 👍
Happens to the best of us Ken! thanks
Harry the ICE man! Stay cool!
Super video. Great suggestions and tips. Thanks so much for sharing.
You are so welcome!
Ken,
Excellent tip on Tuesday fire planning.
Greetings from Seattle in SV Wildflower.
Glad you enjoyed it! Share, like, Sub... :). Fair Winds my friend!
Great video, advice and knowledge sharing. Thanks for creating this one
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for sharing your experience Ken.
Thanks for watching
Very very good 👍 advice
Forever best wishes 🙏🌟 ⛵️
Thanks for the Best Wishes. Fair Winds!
Ken, as a future Amel owner, I really appreciate your in depth and logical videos. I'd love to know what you did by way of occupation (I'm thinking engineer/risk management) as you take a systematic and logical approach to risk prevention foremost and cure second. Bummer about the fire but a valuable lesson learned (for you and me). Fair winds.
I was an Electrical Engineer. Glad you enjoyed it. Please share the video with others that might enjoy it! Fair Winds to you, and hope our paths cross somewhere in the Big Blue!
Ken, a lot of the Super Maramu’s I’ve seen have a Clean Agent (eg Halon although that is getting hard to get due to the greenhouse gas emissions issue) or Fireboy type system that can be triggered by heat and remotely at the helm station or in the passageway by the fuel shut off. A smoke and CO detector could also have alerted you before your nose did. As you have undoubtedly discovered, non clean agent firme systems can leave quite a mess on sensitive components and engines. Obviously better than losing the boat but something else to consider.
Yes, I agree Steve. I need to get another Halon extinguishers before they disappear. :)
very informative. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Hi Ken, someone mentioned a loose connection as cause. Agreed that could be it. Also, if the wire gauge was smaller than it should have been and then the crimped contact on the end of the wire and the mating connector were not the correct type, you could end up with a high resistance section (a loose connection will have the same result). With the loads drawing a certain amount of power, a high resistance section will lead to greater voltage drop and even more current. This can create a runaway condition of increasing current where the high resistance section just gets too hot and then the plastic connector may melt or smoke and it seems that ultimately, something reached the point where combustion occurred. I'm glad you were able to disconnect power quickly and stop the spread.
Thanks Jeff! I think we are on the same page. Anyway, we need to get together next time I'm n SD... Ken
Ty another great video n information Captain Ken
Glad you enjoyed it Dennis!
Solid tips! I found a bad connection in one of the 110v AC outlets in my house... I noticed it sparked when I plugged something in, took it apart, and about 2" of wire was charred. I went through and checked all of them in my house and found a few more loose connections. Scary stuff.
Yes, very scary stuff... Ken
TRhanks for the lessons! Best!
Welcome!
Great video. I would think that your first step in your fire plan would be to put the mask on. Once your breathing and sight are protected from all the fumes, smoke and heat, then you could more quickly address the other shutdowns and extinguisher. Plus, burning wire coating, fiberglass, varnish, etc. is a lot of noxious fumes that can hurt eyes and especially lungs permanently.
While it can look like a bad connection or wiring on the back of the socket as the cause, often it's oxidation between plug and socket that causes resistance then arcing between plug and socket that then heats and burns the socket housing and wiring. An Arc Fault Circuit Breaker or Detection Device would likely have tripped. Non of the wiring your showed looked tinned though and is prone to corroding inside terminals, make sure you use tinned marine wire on the rebuild. The mask at the extinguisher is also great advice.
Yes, this could have been the problem as well. But, I think it was more likely the connection with the undersized wire. Note that all the other connections are made properly, and they even have a special insert soldered to the end of the wire that goes into the high power connector. But not the one installed by the dude. I didn't know about Arc Fault Circuit Breakers, and will be looking to install one if they work like I think they do... In fact, I may just do a video about them. Best Regards, and thanks for the advice! Ken
Great video Ken!
😌
Lekker man lekker 🇿🇦
:)
Smoke hoods bought. Thanks
👍👍
First disconnect battery. Put on respirator. THEN grab fire extinguisher. Every boat need a trip both sides of the hull line to a spring loaded battery switch, so all you need do is to GRAB and PULL. Then you know the usual cause is removed--the rest is damage control.
You are correct, and everything needs to be refined... Even my procedures! Ken
Smoke with burned Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) is usually the cause of that "sick feeling"....and is killer if enough is breathed in.
Excellent video!! Wiith good info.
Thanks! I found this out first hand and don't recommend it. Best! Ken
Gotta watch out for those dodgy DIY Alec Chickens Ken! Good save though, another five minutes and it might've been a different story eh.
Not sure if the fire would have spread, but if it got much bigger the Automatic Fire Extinguisher in the engine room should have put it out. Thankfully the fire was small and the Auto Fire was not set off. But, everything worked out in the end. That junction box that I was thinking to remove, was burned up. I am going to wait until I get to a 110VAC marina and sell that 110V to 220V transformer, and install a really nice 80V to 240V battery charger that will work anywhere around the world! Best, Ken
Luces cabinas varios térmicos independientes, así con cada consumo individual, recuerda hay para corriente continua DC y corriente alterna AC y con diferentes consumos en los dos modos, en DC también hay fusibles rearmables por consumo
Had the same lousy experience with Electricians in Phuket. Which did even include a "Frank". Yet there are some more items to consider. We can discuss once you are coming to Dar
Will be in Tanzania in a few weeks. If that's what you mean! Let me know.. Ken
@@SailingAquarius yes. I am much of my time at Slipway or at the Yachtclub. Hidde
@@SailingAquarius yes. I am much of my time at Slipway or at the Yachtclub. Hidde
We will probably check into Tanga. Maybe we will meet up! Ken
@@SailingAquarius Tanga Yacht Club is a great place. And there is plenty to explore nearby, both on the water and onshore! Than there is Pemba, a bit tricky with the authorities, but very very nice. Not to mention Zanzibar, again easy easy. And if bored Mafia is waiting for you.
more than likely the wires arched in the connector if they where not tight or if one connector was loose.
I agree! Ken
Ken another great video. Question what about smoke detectors? The sooner the fire is found the easier it is to put put.
Yes, now we have smoke detectors in every room. But, can't put everything in the video... Also have a Gas detector in the kitchen. Best, Ken
Buenas
Deberías hacer como en embarcaciones más modernas
Colocar en cada consumo y térmico de igual consumo contando con pico de arranque medido con amperimetro
Ken, apologies, but new to the channel and so I am watching these out of order. Did this fire result from the electrical work done for your battery upgrade? I was interested in the comments regarding insurance coverage for boats with Lithium on your battery upgrade video.
Not really... The fire was due to a bad connection on the AC wiring which was changed to include a new inverter. At the time of the fire the inverter was not energized.
Great video, great advice.
With your Lithium setup and increased efficiency have you evaluated the efficiency of your air con and refrigeration units? I assume yours are original, are split gas devices with one central unit in engine room and separate condensers available and affordable? Such a setup should provide better dehumidification and efficiency should have improved
Finally who did u get to insure boat with Li batteries?
AirCon - We have three separate AC units that are water cooled. Bow cabin, Salon, and aft cabin. Also we have a portable AC unit that blows hot air out a window.
For insurance call -
Matt Slatter
Steve Slatter Insurance Brokers (Pty) Ltd
Authorised Financial Service Provider FSP No. 10663
17 Lynn Ave, Glenashley
South Africa, 4051
Phone : +27 31 5628320
Fax : +27 31 5628087
Mobile : 0826551402
e-mail : matt@ssib.co.za
www.ssib.co.za
Scary video, especially for novice DIY "electricians".
My thoughts exactly!
Great tips, the question I have is if your fuse is rated for 30 amps how much bigger should the wire be in general. I know their are charts out there but I am talking about in general. Ex. Next size up 1.5, 2 times bigger? I think this would be good knowledge to know even in a house setting.
House, boat, electrons move the same in wires. So, in the video I put a wire gauge map... 06:58 take a look at it. Give the size of the wire knowing the current, and length. Cheers, Ken
Smoke hoods are a very good idea...its usually the smoke that kills people in fires.... burning plastics from wiring tubing etc and plastic based sound insulation are all problematic. As are soft furnishings.
I dont know how those wires were fitted to back of the plug but if they were a screw fixing they can heat and cool in time they can work loose ...
Ditto a small amount of corrosion on the blades and spades can increase the resistance across the connection causing a build up in heat. Ive seen it melt connector blocks on cars....its not always green either copper oxide is black and doesnt conduct electricity well if at all.
Glass fiber will burn ultimately ...see the barefoot doctors channel... When they lost their 1yr old Leopard..
The smoke is not only toxic containing cyanides so thats why your lungs give up its also highly irritating to the eyes and mucous membranes.
The final risk is certain plastics contain flurine compounds they actually produce Hydroflurosylic
acid... Which passes through the skin and flesh to attack the bones underneath.. UK firemen dealing with extinguished vehicle fires always ware protective gloves.
By comparison cork is benign if you can even get it to smoke and treated its remarkably fire proof rot resistant anti bacterial and a renewable resource....
ruclips.net/video/YdSWJypDSbI/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/uir_RUjVGQw/видео.html
In high risk areas its best to have extinguisher systems plumbed in to high risk areas via fire wire system as on race cars ...a pressurised plastic tube placed round the engine bay ruptures closest to the heat source and floods the compartment with extinguisher contents...
The other route is to have a small port you can fire the extinguisher into the compartment through without opening a hatch or door...as that can allow an inrush of O2 and trigger a flashover ... The smoke represents unburned fuel ...if the fires restricted by the limited air in the compartment opening it will result in an explosive expansion of the fire through the air...
You dont open a cars bonnet till youve got enough extinguisher contents in under it till its out or nearly and you better have the right type and a spare on hand. 🔥🔥🔥
Best read up on avoiding flashovers or backdrafts as they call them in the US.
Feel for heat with the back of your hand ...if you cannot see due to smoke or no light search with the back of your hands...
Intense burning will will cook up your muscles and ligaments making it difficult to let go of anything really hot particularly metal handles... Dripping
Plastics will stick to your skin and burn like napalm if ignited ...i nearly lost a finger as a kid due to that one.... ditto a fire below can heat up the deck and burn feet or melt plastic footware. Sometimes all you can do is get off the boat ASAP and if your off shore launch a life raft and grab an e-purb.
If a fire starts at the back of the boat or in the galley can you get out a hatch at the front of the boat on your own or in the dark with the boat full of smoke.
Rechargable items have also caused boat fires ...dont leave them on charge at night ...put them in a tin box insulated from any surface that might catch fire if a fire starts in the tin box. .. fit smoke detectors as well as carbon monoxide detector at sleeping or seating level... It sinks and builds up in the bilges and at floor level ...heat and smoke rises.. so they should be fixed high up.but not above a cooker or near a solid fuel fire.
Great info... You must be a doctor! Ken
Thanks for referencing Barefoot Doctors -- lots of learning about fire disasters, financial pressure, (crooked) insurer, and the aftermath. Cheers
when checking the connections it would be better if the circuits were under load.
Yes, of course, if there is no load you really can't check it with the thermal image camera. But, you could make sure the connections are clean and tight, that would probably repair 99 percent of the problems.. Ken
Bloody good video Ken .What type of extinguisher did you go to put out the fire with because powder makes a huge mess and gets into everywhere.
Halon 1211 4KG..
@@SailingAquarius hi Ken ,unfortunately Halon is banned in the UK .
Also, it would have been good to hit it with a CO2 extinguisher. But, beware, you might not be able to breath, so good ventilation would be good. Or stay out of the room with the fire and shoot into the room with the fire. That's what I did due to the smoke in the engine room..Ken
Smoke detector , Had a bad experience in Phuket from a workers slackness , Nearly sunk the boat on the way down to Singapore , He didn't clamp the genset cooling inlet , Just pushed it on with mastic (2inch pipe) 3 ft below the waterline & BEHIND the Genset . So any work done must be verified & Checked by you or some one who has the certification for the job .
👍
Hi, is the Amel not equipped with any self-extinguishing fire system in the engine room?
Yes... But has to get very hot in the engine room before it will go off. The fire on Aquarius was localized and was caught before it spread.
How will you flood the fire with water if you have shut down all power to the pumps ? What’s the plan for water ?
You might have to get a bucket, and get water.
I think it was a loose connection…
A loose connection generates considerable heat right where the wires and connectors are ‘loose’
Did you ever notice that if your main battery terminal is loose, and your engine won’t crank over,
The lug on the battery is loose, and hot!
Yes, you are correct.. Ken
FLIR has an iPhone accessory.
I saw that while doing this video. Looking to get something similar for an Android.. Best, Ken
Ok
Your electrician screwed up your wiring….what was the bypass wire size he employed
Watch from 11:14 it is in the video..
But, as mentioned in the video, it had more to do with the improper connection, and not the wire size.
Hi from Iceland use full size 10kg fire bottle and have 3 this are to small it cant be more dissapointed then almost kill fire and botle is emty and use Halon ore co2 not powder I have fire on me boat and I will never use powder agene all inside engine room was dust and even clean all is mat and dust many years after you need to strip all the room to clean I am ship service mechanic fore 35 yers I have fight with fire 3 time and this is no joke in ship
Thanks for the heads up. I have heard from several people not to use the powder, especially on electronics. Ken
A year ago!
Yes, a year ago...
You really should name and shame the AmeriCan't electrician at Phuket Yacht Haven Marina Thailand.
Also consider sourcing fire rated electrical junction boxes and replace your engine bay sound attenuation panels with fire rated acoustic foam such as melamine foam (aka Basotect).
You should be able to locate the company that did the poor work!! American dude should be plenty
Son unos GIRLS18.Uno de los mejoresw conciertos Mañas no 9 se l 💯💞😍
I still believe you are lost… 🥸